Good video as always, but I miss a direct comparison to its closest competitors like the mammut smart and bd atc pilot. If i was in the market for a assisted braking device I still wouldn't really know which one to buy.
I own and use the Rama for some weeks now. Yes it looks (very) similar to the Smart, but as the symmetry of the Rama is different from the Smart (and it goes up to 11mm; Smart only 10,5 mm), its handling is way better / smoother. In my collection of passive breakassisted belay devices (Jul 2, Mega Jul, Smart 2, ATC Pilot, Ergo, Click Up, Click up+) only the Black Diamond ATC Pilot has a better handling (imho).
This is what I was hoping to find in the comments. I‘ve tried several ABDs and am currently using the Smart and was wondering if the different geometry of the Rama makes belaying feel better or worse than the Smart. Thanks for your comment!
Mammut Smart 1.0 more precisely. The 2.0 has a contoured brake insert that significantly improve the blocking of the rope. This is exactly like the Smart 1.
No shame... Complete copycat of the mammut Smart and even more expensive. You should be a bit more honest with your customers epictv/Matt. It's not because a company send you a product to test that you must be uncritical...
BD Pilot is the best one out there. Also you can abseil on devices like that by doing a figure 8 and the device on the other end. It feels very safe, but it's similar to rappelling with a Gri-gri.
Andre Le Roux the only issue with that rappel strategy is you will put more wear on the fixed gear since the rope will be running through it. I know it’s more of an issue in some places than others, but it’s something to be aware of.
A Reeschnur is a better approach when using a single-rope device to abseil. Same wear as double rope rapp'ing, just need to be sure you are rigged & weighting the correct side of it, which is easy to check while connected to the anchors with a PAS or similar (I use a double-ended Purcell Prusik, personally)
First glance is this looks like a Smart 2 with a longer handle, which I would prefer a return to. However, having used a number of assisted braking devices, the range of braking is most important which needs to be a side by side comparison. Is there a severe and sudden bite to the rope, is the assistance minimal, can the assistance be easily overridden and at what angles, and more are all essential. This is basically a video for the concept of an assisted braking device if someone isn’t already aware.
Regarding safety: I’m not sure how much this belay device or other Mammut Smart-style devices actually improve over a tubular belay device. I’ve tested letting go of the brake hand with a Mammut Smart and a mass simulator (60kg concrete weight, not a real climber) and it didn’t lock up. So you still absolutely always have to have your brake hand on the rope. If you do that pretty much all belay devices are completely safe. Granted, you don’t have to grip the rope as hard and once it’s locked you can (but shouldn’t) theoretically let go of the brake hand. For beginners I think it’s best to teach on a tubular belay device and have a third person hold the rope as backup. This way beginners learn proper technique (you really feel that you have your climber’s life in your brake hand) and don’t have all the hassle when feeding out rope.
That’s because devices like the Smart are basically tubers with a little more resistance (hence the name). You still need to be an attentive belayer with ABDs, otherwise the rope is gonna slip through the device just like a tube style(maybe not as fast). In my opinion, new climbers should learn how to handle multiple types of devices, but apply the same principles for belaying to all of them. Once the motions are ingrained in the muscle memory, it will come down to personal preference. The reason I use the Smart over an ATC for single pitch is because my climbing partner is significantly heavier than me and the assisted braking makes it easier for me to belay him, especially when he‘s working A certain move on a route. In fact, the biggest difference between an ATC or an ABD is when the climber is weighing the rope. Makes it easier to hold them for extended periods of time.
Based on personal experience with the Smart 2.0 & Pilot, the amount of grab is relative to the rope thickness & slickness. Some ropes absolutely grab and hold without the brake hand required and some will grab and brake but then slowly slip. I've only tested the slip after having caught my climber safely with the brake hand on the rope and then adding a bit of slack below the device line to see if it slips through. I might do some controlled tests with a buddy where he takes a fall and i leave a foot or less of slack between my brake hand and the device(s) to see if there is slippage in a catch as well on various ropes, but from how I've seen them handle so far I expect the slippage to come from a resting position and that they would provide a similar enough catching action regardless (within the range of ropes we typically use them with: 9.4 to 9.8 lead ropes, and 10.2/fuzzy gym rope)
All these one piece assisted locking devices involve a guided path for the carabiner to travel, in relation to the loop of rope. In normal use, the weight of free rope provides the drag that initiates the biner and device closing the gap and pinching the rope against the front pin; the original of this family, the Wild Country SRC, has caught sudden falls for me, without any intentional action on my part. Its only drawback was the lowering arm faced backward, and so was not at all useful as a thumb catch to facilitate easier feeding of slack. Though an original Sticht plate caught my fifty footer 45 years ago, I'm leery of basic ATC style devices any more, because of the risks for a belayer's brake hand coming off the rope, for a wide range of reasons. Regarding either feeding slack or catching falls, try it with just a hip belay held in position by a single oval next to the waist tie-in knot.
Considering that you didn't like the Mammut Smart 2, and this *looks* like a knock off of it, I was hoping you would explain what is different about it that makes you like it more than the Smart.
You should compare this to the Edelrid giga/mega jul. The jul uses the same breaking and feeding actions (although it looks quite different). It's similarly priced. The jul also has two lanes so has more utility for things like repelling and double ropes.
I think Rama works well, for me even better than Click up. But I'm really surprised how expensive it is on the Epic TV shop. Reason why I've bought it is that it's really similar to Mammut Smart (probably the copy), but much cheaper (in Czechia). Here you're able to buy it in the set with the Oxy carabiner for about 30 EUR and only Rama around 21 EUR, which is really good price for assisted belay device.
for the children wich are very light it cn't be used because take them in lead causes hard landing in the rock. sometimes you need to give some slack under the system if you wanna skip a riff or making a slow dynamisation, it's just another unusual marketing stuff
Hey Matt, nice review. I'm considering on getting an assisted belay device but I'm unsure now. Devices like the RAMA, Smart or Jul² would be my choices but I do not see the differences. Could you say what's your personal preference? I've also considered the Mega Jul or even the Giga Jul instead of the Jul², but the first one annoys me due to the faff when transitioning from abseiling to rope climbing. The Giga Jul seems like a do it all that I'm scared of liking it and forgetting about my old DMM Pivot. Cheers again!
Rama is the closest copy of Smart 1 when u compare every other device out there. Almost no attempt to improve it in any obvious way. Perhaps it's just business to want a market share in the ABD trend.
I have the black diamond pilot, and did some careful tests (only reason my feet were off the ground is I had lifted them*). I found that the pilot could be used as a single-rope abseil device, but I certainly would not recommend it. I'd say the same probably goes for the Rama as it is a very similar design. * I had attached some ropes to some playground equipment so I could practice abseil setup and rope climbing.
I had the click up for a while, but for lead climbing it felt fidgety when paying out slack, which is why I switched to another device. But for top roping, the click up is definitely one of the best devices next to the GriGri
This is equal (maybe just bit more expensive) to the Black Diamond ATC pilot, which is equal to the Mammut Smart, which is equal to the Salewa Ergo. I see no reason for this product to exist. Just get an Edelrid Mega Jul instead, it is about the same price, in steel (much more durable compared to aluminium belay), can be used to descend, in guide mode and with double ropes.
The purpose of assisted braking devices isn't to bring in a second level of safety it is to reduce the stress of holding a climber for long periods e.g. working sport routes. So definitely NEVER advertise assisted braking devices as a bonus safety feature as any device is deadly in the wrong hands.
"Purpose" is described by the manufacturer; holding is a beneficial attribute, but secondary to providing a simple, foolproof, consistent means of catching the worst leader falls. Misuse, and more often misunderstanding the limitations of each device, causes most of the accidents. These devices actually work very well without complex lever arms etc. Gri Gris have, and are less easily held open, yet will autolock quite fully under long falls.
Wow, people these days aren't even ashamed of copying each other and neither are companies. This is a straight rip off of Mammuts Smart belay device. Hope Mammut sues them.
Good video as always, but I miss a direct comparison to its closest competitors like the mammut smart and bd atc pilot. If i was in the market for a assisted braking device I still wouldn't really know which one to buy.
I own and use the Rama for some weeks now. Yes it looks (very) similar to the Smart, but as the symmetry of the Rama is different from the Smart (and it goes up to 11mm; Smart only 10,5 mm), its handling is way better / smoother. In my collection of passive breakassisted belay devices (Jul 2, Mega Jul, Smart 2, ATC Pilot, Ergo, Click Up, Click up+) only the Black Diamond ATC Pilot has a better handling (imho).
This is what I was hoping to find in the comments. I‘ve tried several ABDs and am currently using the Smart and was wondering if the different geometry of the Rama makes belaying feel better or worse than the Smart. Thanks for your comment!
I know I'm kinda off topic but does anyone know a good site to watch newly released series online ?
@Dennis Connor lately I have been using flixzone. Just google for it :)
@Kayden Maximiliano definitely, I have been watching on flixzone for since march myself :D
@Dennis Connor happy to help xD
Looks like they've just ripped off the mammut smart 2.0
Mammut Smart 1.0 more precisely. The 2.0 has a contoured brake insert that significantly improve the blocking of the rope. This is exactly like the Smart 1.
@@leepl555 I've never tried the 1.0 but I have the 2 and I'm a big fan of it
Looks like a too expensive alternative. Mammut Smart is online for under 30,-
This is €20 in Czech Republic. They just overpriced it.
Yes, here i czech republic it is actually cheaper tha Mammut Smart
wouldn't you mention how similar it looks to the mammut smart
No shame... Complete copycat of the mammut Smart and even more expensive. You should be a bit more honest with your customers epictv/Matt. It's not because a company send you a product to test that you must be uncritical...
It's not more expensive. In Czech Republic it's €20. EpicTV just overpriced it.
How about a comparison of this, the Smart, and the ATC pilot?
Salewa Ergo, Austrialpin Fish and Jul2 too.
BD Pilot is the best one out there. Also you can abseil on devices like that by doing a figure 8 and the device on the other end. It feels very safe, but it's similar to rappelling with a Gri-gri.
Andre Le Roux the only issue with that rappel strategy is you will put more wear on the fixed gear since the rope will be running through it. I know it’s more of an issue in some places than others, but it’s something to be aware of.
A Reeschnur is a better approach when using a single-rope device to abseil. Same wear as double rope rapp'ing, just need to be sure you are rigged & weighting the correct side of it, which is easy to check while connected to the anchors with a PAS or similar (I use a double-ended Purcell Prusik, personally)
Looks like the Mammut Smart. And it is more expensive?
It's not more expensive. In Czech Republic it's €20. EpicTV just overpriced it.
First glance is this looks like a Smart 2 with a longer handle, which I would prefer a return to. However, having used a number of assisted braking devices, the range of braking is most important which needs to be a side by side comparison. Is there a severe and sudden bite to the rope, is the assistance minimal, can the assistance be easily overridden and at what angles, and more are all essential. This is basically a video for the concept of an assisted braking device if someone isn’t already aware.
You guys went crazy with the warp stabilizer lol
Guys, don't forget that the first smart was already a copy of another device.
Regarding safety: I’m not sure how much this belay device or other Mammut Smart-style devices actually improve over a tubular belay device. I’ve tested letting go of the brake hand with a Mammut Smart and a mass simulator (60kg concrete weight, not a real climber) and it didn’t lock up. So you still absolutely always have to have your brake hand on the rope. If you do that pretty much all belay devices are completely safe. Granted, you don’t have to grip the rope as hard and once it’s locked you can (but shouldn’t) theoretically let go of the brake hand.
For beginners I think it’s best to teach on a tubular belay device and have a third person hold the rope as backup. This way beginners learn proper technique (you really feel that you have your climber’s life in your brake hand) and don’t have all the hassle when feeding out rope.
That’s because devices like the Smart are basically tubers with a little more resistance (hence the name). You still need to be an attentive belayer with ABDs, otherwise the rope is gonna slip through the device just like a tube style(maybe not as fast).
In my opinion, new climbers should learn how to handle multiple types of devices, but apply the same principles for belaying to all of them. Once the motions are ingrained in the muscle memory, it will come down to personal preference.
The reason I use the Smart over an ATC for single pitch is because my climbing partner is significantly heavier than me and the assisted braking makes it easier for me to belay him, especially when he‘s working A certain move on a route. In fact, the biggest difference between an ATC or an ABD is when the climber is weighing the rope. Makes it easier to hold them for extended periods of time.
Based on personal experience with the Smart 2.0 & Pilot, the amount of grab is relative to the rope thickness & slickness. Some ropes absolutely grab and hold without the brake hand required and some will grab and brake but then slowly slip. I've only tested the slip after having caught my climber safely with the brake hand on the rope and then adding a bit of slack below the device line to see if it slips through. I might do some controlled tests with a buddy where he takes a fall and i leave a foot or less of slack between my brake hand and the device(s) to see if there is slippage in a catch as well on various ropes, but from how I've seen them handle so far I expect the slippage to come from a resting position and that they would provide a similar enough catching action regardless (within the range of ropes we typically use them with: 9.4 to 9.8 lead ropes, and 10.2/fuzzy gym rope)
All these one piece assisted locking devices involve a guided path for the carabiner to travel, in relation to the loop of rope. In normal use, the weight of free rope provides the drag that initiates the biner and device closing the gap and pinching the rope against the front pin; the original of this family, the Wild Country SRC, has caught sudden falls for me, without any intentional action on my part. Its only drawback was the lowering arm faced backward, and so was not at all useful as a thumb catch to facilitate easier feeding of slack.
Though an original Sticht plate caught my fifty footer 45 years ago, I'm leery of basic ATC style devices any more, because of the risks for a belayer's brake hand coming off the rope, for a wide range of reasons. Regarding either feeding slack or catching falls, try it with just a hip belay held in position by a single oval next to the waist tie-in knot.
Just bought mine after loosing click up plus, which is super graby, looking forward for testing it
Considering that you didn't like the Mammut Smart 2, and this *looks* like a knock off of it, I was hoping you would explain what is different about it that makes you like it more than the Smart.
You should compare this to the Edelrid giga/mega jul.
The jul uses the same breaking and feeding actions (although it looks quite different). It's similarly priced. The jul also has two lanes so has more utility for things like repelling and double ropes.
Is this a rebranded Mammut?
I think Rama works well, for me even better than Click up. But I'm really surprised how expensive it is on the Epic TV shop. Reason why I've bought it is that it's really similar to Mammut Smart (probably the copy), but much cheaper (in Czechia). Here you're able to buy it in the set with the Oxy carabiner for about 30 EUR and only Rama around 21 EUR, which is really good price for assisted belay device.
for the children wich are very light it cn't be used because take them in lead causes hard landing in the rock. sometimes you need to give some slack under the system if you wanna skip a riff or making a slow dynamisation, it's just another unusual marketing stuff
Hey Matt, nice review.
I'm considering on getting an assisted belay device but I'm unsure now. Devices like the RAMA, Smart or Jul² would be my choices but I do not see the differences. Could you say what's your personal preference?
I've also considered the Mega Jul or even the Giga Jul instead of the Jul², but the first one annoys me due to the faff when transitioning from abseiling to rope climbing. The Giga Jul seems like a do it all that I'm scared of liking it and forgetting about my old DMM Pivot. Cheers again!
get the mammut smart, cheap and really nice
Get the mega Jul. It is super unversial.
@@jenspeeters8812 Hi man, thanks for the answer. I was checking and actually the Jul² is about the same price than smart 2.0.
@@ПетрСтраумал Yeah, I'm tilting towards that choice. cheers!
I'd suggest getting the CT Click-Up...
Remember that the Smart was also a copycat device. Calm down.
Forgive my ignorance, but which belay device does the smart copy?
@@MrRobertrm ATC Pilot?
Rama is the closest copy of Smart 1 when u compare every other device out there. Almost no attempt to improve it in any obvious way. Perhaps it's just business to want a market share in the ABD trend.
@@ПетрСтраумал at least it looks different. I cannot see the difference between this and the smart
@@ПетрСтраумал Mammut Smart came out in 2009. Remind me when the BD pilot was released? Oh right, late 2017.
I have the black diamond pilot, and did some careful tests (only reason my feet were off the ground is I had lifted them*). I found that the pilot could be used as a single-rope abseil device, but I certainly would not recommend it. I'd say the same probably goes for the Rama as it is a very similar design.
* I had attached some ropes to some playground equipment so I could practice abseil setup and rope climbing.
I always recommend CLICK UP. Until these days, no one has built a belay device so quick, cheap and easy to use. Luv it.
I had the click up for a while, but for lead climbing it felt fidgety when paying out slack, which is why I switched to another device. But for top roping, the click up is definitely one of the best devices next to the GriGri
are you guys ever going to do a review of the gig jul? I want to see what that thing can do!
Can you use this with the Belay Master 2
A lot of people here said Smart is also a copycat. But Which product did Mammut copy? I sincerely want to know.
maybe the Salewa Ergo?
@@EmilBjrn Salewa Ergo is for me the best device among all of them (BD pilot, smart, and this one)
This is equal (maybe just bit more expensive) to the Black Diamond ATC pilot, which is equal to the Mammut Smart, which is equal to the Salewa Ergo. I see no reason for this product to exist. Just get an Edelrid Mega Jul instead, it is about the same price, in steel (much more durable compared to aluminium belay), can be used to descend, in guide mode and with double ropes.
Nobody seems to know about the OG Salewa Ergo.
Nice review, did you try the edelrid jul 2? It looks similar.
That looks surprisingly similar to Mammut Smart
Did Mammut forget to copyright their Smart?
Just as the Smart 2 (knowing that the 1 was more comfortable to use) without abseiling possibility... nonsense to buy it
The purpose of assisted braking devices isn't to bring in a second level of safety it is to reduce the stress of holding a climber for long periods e.g. working sport routes. So definitely NEVER advertise assisted braking devices as a bonus safety feature as any device is deadly in the wrong hands.
"Purpose" is described by the manufacturer; holding is a beneficial attribute, but secondary to providing a simple, foolproof, consistent means of catching the worst leader falls. Misuse, and more often misunderstanding the limitations of each device, causes most of the accidents. These devices actually work very well without complex lever arms etc. Gri Gris have, and are less easily held open, yet will autolock quite fully under long falls.
A second Mammuth Smart. If or when it will be cheaper, it will be bought.
think ill stick to a revo for indoors
2:43 would anyone else call that dropping the brake rope?
Orange diamond pilot
Wow, people these days aren't even ashamed of copying each other and neither are companies. This is a straight rip off of Mammuts Smart belay device. Hope Mammut sues them.
They would have to sue themselves also cause they copied the Salewa Ergo
@@Furansowakun Salewa Ergo was released 2020. Mammut's Smart belay was released 2009. So maybe you should get some facts straight...
@@HaasGrotesk Oups ok, thanks for the information. I heard the first one was Salewa Ergo I was wrong then
@@HaasGrotesk I checked and it seemed Salewa Ergo was released in 2016 but I am not sure
I agree with all people saying it is Mammut shameless rip-off .
Smart itself was also a copycat.