its like when twitch said that "streamer attire has to be appropriate to the environment the streamer is in." by making that one rule they actually facilitated the birth of hot hub streamers.
It’s called “the iron rule” of unintended consequences. It is actually a well known rule in scientific experiments. The notion is that always any social policy ie rule will always cause worse problems than it aims to cure.
@@illiciousD in that case I guess that would be a shortcut assuming the move interpreter accepts db db as the move, but I've been trying to think of how up down socd would make the common motions faster.
5:35 This dude wore the One Ring for five seconds and knew it was evil. "The power.." You can hear a tinge of fear in his voice, he saw all of this coming.
BRO when I saw rooflemonger's video I couldn't wait for you to ridicule this. I'm training a keyboard layout to learn HitBox muscle memory but I really don't care about all that SOCD stuff. It's a wrist-saver for me...or more a thumb saver. I'd always wreck my thumb on a d-pad, & I could never get a straight left or right out of a stick.
@@LegendaryPlank So I tried both Japanese stick and Korean stick. For some reason the Korean stick was better for both input and comfort. I've been on the Korean stick for 3 years now and I felt no pain. I used the Japanese stick for a bit and in one session I felt discomfort in my wrist. That's not to say you should switch to a Korean stick. Just sharing my experience. Use whatever works for you. I am intrigued by the Hitbox however.
I remember SF5 pro player Nephew suggesting a first button priority system for opposed cardinal dirctions. If you hold left and then press right, the device still reads it as left and vice versa. Same for up and down. I couldn't come up with a shortcut to for any moves so far in that scenario. Could be an idea.
@@chroma6847 That's a pretty high skill scenario to hit 1 frame every time even on a hitbox, I still don't like the idea it could cheat something though.
the issue with the directions having 0 travel time compared to a stick would still remain even then, which is another reason why this ban is misguided.
I thought the idea was to just implement the "let the software handle it" rule, but apparently they're still allowing ones that implement their own SOCD rules on a hardware level anyway? Which is not letting the software handle it lol. There was an SOCD implementation that had almost no cheated shortcuts so shouldn't they just go with that?
Problem is that Hitboxes need some sort of SOCD option because problems occur if you try playing older games with them. A lot of events have retro games setups and if those players want to use them they would have to bring two hitboxes which starts to get silly.
@@servebotfrank4082 Hell, MvC3 is going to be a main game this year. Isn't there literally no SOCD prevention in that game, meaning you can block in both directions at the same time?
Laughs in new SOCD instant DP shortcut, just as you await the day hitbox is banned, I await the day arcade sticks are so ancient that they are no longer used, every company from hori to madcatz just makes all button controllers instead. It ain’t cheating if nobody is using arcade sticks, everybody will be using a hitbox, it’s a bright new world, time to move on old man.
@@blazestation408 pretty much, if that happens I'll just switch to six face button fightpads which was what I was using before, does everything an fight stick can but better
I still think even without shortcuts hitbox is still strong due to accuracy and reduced user input lag BUT it will require allot more skill and you have to be gifted with piano fingers strength. at least it will be more balanced due to increased human error
@@blazestation408 It's part. I am switching to lever less because the diagonals are so much more accurate. Stuff likeOmen or JFRS in Tekken become complete no issues. Perfect electric as well. It's so easy to hit it when every direction is it's own button. Other things are more annoying like half circle motions, but nothing you can't get used to.
Those hitbox guiles really have been hurting a lot of people. Lmao. Btw, this is a BUFF to leverless controllers. Seems like a lot of people think leverless controllers are banned completely. They aren't. They just need to follow specific rules, and are still among the best controllers for FGs.
Doesn't really even the playing field just forces people to use more awkward input devices. I personally can't use a stick but can use a hitbox / keyboard just fine.
@@JHattsy How is struggling with stick without any practice an accessibility issue rather than a skill issue though... Also how do you not see hitbox / keyboard as a massive advantage? Anyone who says it doesn't give an edge either has no clue what they are talking about, or is trying to protect their ego. I built a hitbox just to abuse rulesets allowing it cause because I KNOW how much of an advantage it give me. -Much easier to block overheads (literally lift a finger) -Quicker block switch timing for left/right mix (extremely helpful for games like dbfz) -Instant dashes without having to input forward/back more than once for games without dash macro -Can KBD in tekken with only 1 vulnerable frame with 100% accuracy -Can block out of walk forward without a neutral input All of this doesn't even acknowledge the amount of motion input shortcuts available, or the general boost in input consistency. The Capcom change doesn't address the biggest issue of hitbox being able to skip across neutral inputs. I thought hitbox was cheap before I got one, then I built one and now I think it's even more bullshit than before I had one. This thing is legit cheating but until its straight up banned I will abuse it
@@SeasonsIntheAbyss8 stop it bruh, it’s a strong device that requires practice that use effectively, it’s not “Legit cheating” or whatever anyone over the age of 35 says. Simply a strong input device
@@SeasonsIntheAbyss8 respectably, I'm not reading all that. Learn to sum up your thoughts in not-a-college-essay. Controller is easier than stick, should we ban all controllers? That's as far as I read.
Hitbox is cheap because you're able to press two diametrical opposite inputs at the same time. (Up + Down, or Left + Right). Which is physically impossible with a fightstick lever. Being able to do this creates different types of 'shortcuts' or cheap, cheat options.
People want hitbox banned because of travel time in directions. Absolutely none of them mention pad where travel time is also Tiny compared to stick. You also now have fightpads with the ability to do a lot of the stuff you can do on hitbox. And no one mentions keyboards either. At this point, it’s the leverless players, the keyboard players and the pad players just fucking getting on with it, and the stick users loudly shouting in a corner.
Except pad is fucking not, you can’t press forward+back at the same time on pad unless you use the buttplug. Travel distance is different on every device, but holding two buttons and then letting go off one is clearly the fastest.
@@sofaking9404 forward and back give you neutral so there’s literally no reason to do that. You can also press forward on the dpad and back on the stick. It’s marginally faster yeah, but is that making much of a difference. Both pad and leverless are better than stick, but leverless isn’t loads better than pad, not at all.
I'd like to say they're in some process of refinement/iteration with this rule, but the game releases in just a few months and EVO isn't very long after that.
@@sulfreez I remember when my original Hori stick broke (Because it was a PS2 Soul Calibur 2 stick) I used keyboard for a while. That was even MORE broken in SF4. Left + Right wasn't neutral, it was whatever you hit most recent so you could do instant Sonic Boom to Charge. It was crazy. At least they fixed that part.
@@Kasaaz Fighting game devs have to account for simultaneous inputs since the analogue controllers are tourney legal. I think that following the CPT logic a pad allows for "up+down" input on d-pad and analog, so it should have a SOCD cleaner too.
I agree with most of what he had to say but saying "im charging the next sonic boom before I even throw it" is a bit reckless. While holding forward (which currently on hitboxes = neutral) you are not charging the next sonic boom. Sure the window is small, but there are tons of people who truly think you can be charging and executing moves. Also if they are so cheap, just use one. Everyone is cool with "do whatever it takes to win" with your playstyle, but they are unwilling to switch controllers. Everyone has access to a hitbox.
@@sofaking9404 A. Build your own for cheaper, Junkfood Arcades offers some parts to make a leverless stick while places like Focus Attack offer those AFB Layout to figure it out on your own. Hitbox is just the faster option to play on it. B. It's not worth it atm since there's no PS5 support. Don't know how the hell they haven't figured it out but it's not there. Compared to a Hori Fightstick thats $200 for PS5/PS4/PC.
Easiest solutions(not saying they're the best, just the easiest) are to either ban all leverless controllers or making them the new standard, thus forcing everyone to switch from lever to leverless
The biggest challenge that people still don’t get is I could set my and down to make neutral but could make my 4th button on the bottom (3kicks) equal up so literally nobody would know. That’s always been the problem. Not policeable
Using a controller to circumvent intended limitations that a system is balanced around should obviously never be allowed. It would be like if goalies started to wear big ass capes that they tied to the edges of the goal to block shots with the fabric of their outfits. Dressing up like a Superman Liberace hybrid isn't an evolution of the game it is a devolution... you know what screw it, where'd I put that bong water.
My list of solutions to level the playing field: 1. Forget sticks, they are irrelevant and are not default controllers anymore. Also the claim that every fighting game is assembled around a stick may be false, no one knows what developer thinks. Even if it was true, then again who cares, let's make leverless the default one, cause it's easier now (+keyboards). 2. Make First Input Win for SOCD. It will eliminate shortcuts whatsoever. (hard to police) 3. Program the game engine to demand let's say 1frame of neutral between left-right and up-down, that will autopolice those, who abuses Last input Win socd setting. But will hurt the 'good guys' who will use first win input setting. So that will demand some relearning for both. Won't affect stick users. 4. Allow all inputs simultaneously by pcb, let the game engine decide what is right and wrong (hard to police)
@Rute Fernandes hey. some may say sticks were before analogs on pads. So what is simulating what. Also analogs are much more versatile, they kinda replace mouse movements in rts/fps games and steering wheel in racing games. That is why the sheer existance of analog sticks on modern consoles is not the excuse to arcade sticks for me. Pads also have trigger buttons and regular buttons, so hitbox emulates those, right? by the same principal hibox is legit, it reffers to ultimate denominator - the pad. Anyway, pads are the grey zone of fair play, you just have to adopt the idea that they will not go away, they come in the box and designed to appeal to any game genre, can't compete with that. Pads cause all of the refferential 'whataboutism' when defending your own controller type and screws over any argument in hitbox vs stick debate.
Sfiv was even crazier with shortcuts. I could literally buffer a super or ultra with d df only! With timing, it became impossible to even throw a fireball at me lol.
I think this change has little to do with them actually wanting to nerf things like Guile flashkicking from a crouching position. They could just forcibly add at least 1F of standing to the flash kick animation itself if they wanted to and give other "problematic" moves similar treatment. No this change is because Capcom wants the community to move away from hardware having built in SOCD as a standard. And i completely agree with them, hardware level socd is a thing of the past where it was needed because old games allowed things like blocking in both directions at once and other shit of that level that made the games quite unplayable. These days it's better to just let the game decide what to do with the inputs, the controller shouldn't do anything... imo anyway.
They would be fair if you physically couldnt push the opposite direction without lifting the other, thats completely in line with everything else. However im not sure that will happen cause the companies want to make it as cheap as possible and I dont think anyone will ban it that far
@@29once Under these rules the hitbox is just a keyboard, That's the entire point I was making. there is not much more you can do to regulate leverless due to PC being a default platform, Since the video is basically saying this change isnt enough.
The in-person rules for Keyboard is arguably worse than their rule for SOCD. That said, if you play online only, these rules will probably never, ever effect you regardless of what you play with.
I don't even compete, but people are being bitches about this. Controllers also can be modified and do even crazier stuff than a hitbox. It's dumb to ban anything since it's an uncontrollable situation regardless unless you spend a lot of money on regulation enforcement.
It's not dumb to can't something uncontrollable.. If the game wasn't designed for it then it wasn't.. Unless u have physical haddicap I guess it's fine.. U can't play a game dev.. If they didn't have hitbox in mind... Consoles shouldn't even allow controllers like it.. In general.. I used a custom hitbox and on modern.. Some weird glitches game breaking u can do...
@@optionvice8926 unless tournament organizers want to have a sponsored arcade stick that is at each station and no one is allowed to use their own device, then banning things that everyone technically has access to is a bad idea.
like aris briefly mentioned a better solution would be actually designing the game around that issue instead. "perfect sonic boom" type things could've been a step in the right direction - having a "later" input timing being the best ( or only) version of the move, since really only hitboxes are gonna get down then up / left then right in the very next frame. then, disable charging for a couple frames after the move comes out to negate the instant hold back advantage, and there you go. not designing the game around digital controllers is stupid as hell dude, it's 2023. hitboxes are already widely adopted. you can do socd trickery on any hardware if you really want, even pad. bro i play on keyboard on my pc, who the fuck is gonna stop me. so silly
whats silly to to have devs develop a game around a controller with one of the lowest percentages of users. its not going to happen. digital inputs are the standard no matter how hard you try to justify using a bitchbox. once Sony and Microsoft ship their consoles with hitboxes instead of controllers, then you can try to make a solid argument about why games need to be developed around hitboxes. until then, you could just not be a scrub and use a standard controller that doesn't allow multiple directional inputs to be pressed simultaneously its quiet honestly as fucking simple as it can be
@@TC14 thats not the issue. the SOCD takes place before the input is sent to the game, AKA, the controller decides if up+down is neutral or up before the game has any say
@@kviju ur kidding right? pads have dpads and keyboards work the same as hitboxes. those are supported controllers played by the majority of ppl, NOT arcade sticks. it's not just hitbox. and you can do the kind of thing hitbox does with either of these as well (though you'd have to remap one of the pad buttons to be equally frame perfect but it's not hard to do especially on PC)
@@kodoy no im not kidding. you'd have to be smoking a deep dick pizza if you think keyboards are some how the equivalent of a pad. im watching EVO japan right now. wanna guess how many players are using a fucking keyboard? lmfao tired of scrubs that have no business being in the FGC having an opinion about it
The first thing I noticed going from stick to cheatbox was the ability to anti air people on reaction online with DP. Just makes it so much faster and more fIuid with the small responsive buttons. Never modded the thing, this advantage is speaking strictly to the controller itself.
@@LegendaryPlank probably, all I know is that for me I struggled to anti air dp offline on stick but the second I switched to hitbox I was able to do it online easily. The stick just adds so much more travel time
@@LegendaryPlank IMO yes, fgs are played for the most part on pad. If a 250$ unlicensed product is dominating the mainstage by having not only a mechanical superiority (what is said in the video) aswell as having easier execution in dp and qcx which are the most common commands we have a problem. That said, half circles, full circles etc etc are harder to pull off. But due to the simplification of fighting games (read: retardation) we see less of these inputs.
@@LegendaryPlank not at all. Like I said I never modded mine but I immediately recognized it's power without even being modded which is definitely cheating
I use a mix box cause I dont like moving my left wrist and I play a lot of pc games so the wasd is more comfortable to me (technically its arrow keys the W is slighty offset to the left on wasd but arrow keys are stight so the mixbox is arrow keys and not was, I wish I could change it but its still comfortable)
@@sulfreez Pads have no built in SOCD which means it's sending both of the opposing inputs to the game. It's then up to the game to decide what happens. In SFV you will talk towards your opponent while in SF6 they've changed it so you do nothing aka neutral. Because they changed how SF6 is programmed to behave they also felt it was necessary to make all input devices behave the same way and so they changed the rules to reflect this. So all legal tournament devices will now give you up+down=neutral and left+right=neutral in SF6. I think this change had little to do with them wanting to nerf specific moves or characters. It's just to make the game and it's tournament scene more uniform.
@@antonsundin2974 If the programming to deal with it exists in the game, then what's the problem? That comes off as overstepping their bounds. Game company's job is to program the game. Not decide what controller(s) the players want to use.
Is it cheating or are levered controllers just becoming outdated? Because most fighting games and competitive fighting game players play on PC due to superior graphics and less input delay. And PC gives you immediate access to a keyboard controller which is essentially the same as a hit-box. It’s like complaining about using mouse and a keyboard in a FPS shooter game instead of using a PS / Xbox controller. People still enjoy using controllers for those games but at a competitive level you’re gonna use mouse and keyboard. I reckon the competitive scene of fighting games just need to adapt to the new and accept that leverless controllers should be the new meta. And like you said with titles like Project L coming out there’s going to be a new wave of fighting game players that play on keyboard and don’t have the nostalgic attachment to arcade sticks and console controllers.
PC won't be the new norm graphics cards are gonna be mad expensive due to... Crypto again.. And streaming games will be the norm as internet gets better and cloud technology... Having window 11 installed makes customization certain part of computer in unrefundable... So PC is not the future... Because they don't us to crack games and software is not another reason.
It's the main reason pads were incorporated into games, the wide use of them made it an obvious path once home consoles became a thing. So i don't see why this is any different, there's a gray area since the games themselves haven't had any fundamental changes yet but I don't see why they won't.
The matchup between hitbox and hitbox is considered fair, as both have equal advantages. However, when comparing a hitbox to an arcade stick, it is seen as unfair because a hitbox has a hardware advantage.
the stricter the games input the harder the hitbox gets, leverless will always have the potential but the shortcuts is what makes them strong without shortcuts its still good but very hard to keep the rhythm fo executing the moves as intended. from my experience using leverless the main advantage was basic movement so good and blocking really fast gives you the sensation there is no lag at all and very responsive however on stick am much faster and better on execution i can react from a scramble from a confirm into combo intinctively, sure i can do those combos on leverless but moves speed is faster on stick (am not talking bout shortcuts) just using leveless without shortcuts you need build up the foundation first before going into shortcuts imho also with leveless the amount of time youl miss an input due to not letting go of the previous direction happens allot eg ⬇↘➡ if you finger doesnt let go of ⬇ youl get ⬇↘ or do it fast and you get this ↘➡ some moves require to relase at diffrent time in diffrent situation with diffrent rythem this a common thing and will never go away unless you blessed with piano strong fingers so the potentila is there but most will never reach that cause of limitation of the weak finger no matter how hard you practice the potential is just that for the 1%ers overall pad and stick still more accessible and will level up players much better on AVERAGE
Just ban left+right and up+down inputs. If a controller can input left+right and up+down at the same time, it's cheating, because these inputs are impossible on pad and stick
Pads can input opposite cardinal directions if you use the D-pad and the Analog Stick at the same time, but since it has no native SOCD cleaning, the *game* is the one responsible for reading and interpreting the left+right or up+down inputs Keyboards are pretty much the same thing All button controllers however, have their own internal SOCD cleaning thats works independently from the game, The way SF6 cleans inputs for pads and keyboards is that if you press opposite directions, you always get Neutral, so Left+Right=Neutral and Up+Down=Neutral The change Capcom made pretty much makes it so that every input device has to have the same "cleaning method" for SOCD, so even if you clean your inputs with your input device (aka hitbox), Up+Down=Neutral man... this shit sounds really confusing
@@nickkiller-0710 That's a good point and great explanation actually. Wow, ok, this topic is a bit more complex than I thought. Thanks for the response 👍
Better idea: Instead of even having this argument about controllers, they should get with their dev team to code their game in a way that won't accept dumb inputs. If they want up+down = neutral, then update their game to interpret it that way. Leave the controllers and players alone.
I've always wondered why they didn't do this. Probably because it's just now that cheatboxes are gaining popularity? We might see this implemented in SF7 and Tekken 9 or maybe in Project L since that game is still in mid-development.
The game already have SOCD, the problem is the controller also have SOCD. So if you input UP+DOWN, the controller will only send UP to the game, not UP and DOWN so the dev can’t do anything about that
They do already do that. The Hitbox itself reads Up+Down and sends just Up to the game. Its been like that for 20 years because games would read it all types of different ways and it was done on the hardware side to standardize it.
I moved to hit box due to inputs on pad being fucked. U can hit the right button and get down. It happens and all current pads. I got and arcade stick and then was like this is cool but still doesn't solve the " I only intended this one exact direction/input" Guess growing up without arcades and old pads directional buttons being digital buttons fuked me.
@@Shion_VI yes I actually saw it haha. Guile's charge is getting nerfed and some Chun Li is getting buffed apparently. But you need 2 sets of movement buttons to charge which the hitbox doesn't have, you'd need the crossup. You can also do up+down=up as Guile on ps4/5 controllers if you use the analog stick to press the up with while holding down so it's not just the hitbox
Biggest thing tho, would you consider a scuf controller in comp halo,gears,cod whatever cheating or an advancement because you can now aim move and also press any button at the same time?? just like a keyboard provides for each game.
Keep in mind the current shortcuts aren't nearly as useful the u+d=u. And they can also make leverless controllers fix the other short cuts through firmware and if they can't, just outright ban them
Interesting way to balance hitbox could be: if you press an opposite direction button while the other cardinal button is still held, then the second button doesn’t work, even if you release the first button.
Everybody keeps saying the up+down=neutral creates new shortcuts without listing any. Not saying they don't, but actually list some instead of being vague.
by inputting 639P you can get the 3 frame DP they had explicitly patched out for SF6 when the socd is neutral, and chun upkicks are also faster. It's mostly just a nerf for down up charge moves, but either inconsequential or a mild buff towards motion characters
SFV wise, its proven to have lot of advantages, to the point lot top players switched to it. But yea its not instant win even when u use that. Pad and sticks tho at little disadvantage, they can still win vs hitbox, depends on character matchup and skill of the players.
Hitboxes take time to learn but once you do it can make very technical and execution heavy techniques easy peasy. And that's nothing to say about how you can make a button hold two directional inputs at once when that's physically impossible on a stick
It's actually possible on a controller when you use the dpad and control stick. A stick has only one way to use directional inputs while a controller has two.
@@ChaserTech no shit but it's not a single button press. You are gonna have to claw the controller or do whatever weird shit to do that. Also hitboxes allow for several buttons on one. You can make wavu wavu a button push. And before you even say you can hotkey buttons on controller/stick that is true but nowhere near the level of a hitbox with all the options it gives. One button could equal a sequence of buttons in order 1-2-3 where as most standard hotkey options you can bind 1+2+3 but not in a sequence. They are just plain and simple a huge and unfair advantage but some of the best players use them, and the FGC is already a niche scene. Outright banning them would only hurt events by cutting out fan favorite players, but on the other hand it would also level the playing field as it stands if you play against anyone with a hitbox they already have a big advantage.
@@ChaserTech removed in SF6, and also ergonomically the convenience of it on a leverless controller vs pad is not even close to the same thing. That's just an argument hitbox apologists use to stretch the rules and allow it.
Yeah I really don't understand their thought process. I agree with Hitbox on this one that it has to be up. It pretty much punishes you for pressing up and down at the same time while also giving you an advantage during specific moments (like meeting them up in the air).
Bottom line is the games were fundamentally developed for sticks. Fighting games come from the arcade days. Nothing in terms of their development has changed - they are still fundamentally designed for sticks. Pads are a grey area since the advent of pads with both a pad and an analog stick - allowing for SOCD. Vanguard used this to do standing 720s back in SFIV days. Until fighting games are designed to be run on Hitbox as opposed to sticks, in my opinion, sticks and pads should be the only allowed input devices for tournaments.
That was true until the games started being ported to consoles, once that happened, the devs had to consider the fact that most people would be playing on a controller versus a stick. I’m glad they continued to keep making sticks after sf4 came to consoles.
![BabyChiefDoit - Wonderful Time (Official Music Video) [Shot By @Rxllo]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_Bfqt3zV2KE/mqdefault.jpg)
its like when twitch said that "streamer attire has to be appropriate to the environment the streamer is in."
by making that one rule they actually facilitated the birth of hot hub streamers.
It’s called “the iron rule” of unintended consequences. It is actually a well known rule in scientific experiments. The notion is that always any social policy ie rule will always cause worse problems than it aims to cure.
@@dorjedriftwood2731 it doesnt always create a worse problem, just one that exists as a workaround to the phrasing or intention of the rule
@@dorjedriftwood2731 lmao are you an idiot?
that's how hot tub streams became a thing?
And that's fine.
Keyboard players been flying under the radar since the 90s
Bruh keyboard is so bullshit , execution is a piece of piss on keyboard 😂😂😂😂
@@jahmon7117 u must have a 1980s keyboard
As long as it can register more than 3 key presses at the same time.
@@jahmon7117 If you're trash you're trash a KB ain't fixing nothing
@@Jason-ip6wq piece of piss means ez
“Trying to control fate often leads to the very thing you were trying to avoid.”- some stoned dude probably.
I sometimes forget how knowledgeable Aris is regarding fighting game mechanics
Welcome to the stream, he’s originally a fighting game player
Hey alright
I mean yeah he was once the Soul Calibur 2 world champ
@@neetsamurai he's originally a Dead or Alive Xtreme Venus Vacation player you noob
Greetings from America!
Yeah this ban only affected Guile hitbox players negatively, but actually buffed every other character with hitbox
Yeah it's so funny
Chun eating good
@@illiciousD but how?
@@toppatenga72 her new anti air is down down kick, so with the new hitbox rule, she can hold down and tap up once to get down down very quickly
@@illiciousD in that case I guess that would be a shortcut assuming the move interpreter accepts db db as the move, but I've been trying to think of how up down socd would make the common motions faster.
5:35 This dude wore the One Ring for five seconds and knew it was evil.
"The power.." You can hear a tinge of fear in his voice, he saw all of this coming.
The only solution is to have armed hitbox cops monitor every set for suspicious inputs.
The only solution to a bad player with a hitbox is a good player with a hitbox.
Momochi tweeted exactly this.. All this is going to do is make other more powerfull shortcuts enabled.
Seems like the only thing now is to ban them and just have stick and pad.
Aris is my favorite Cheat Master, 1st Tekken 8 Easy Mode Wiff-Punishes and now Hitbox engineer!
But that double stick box is still roaming the streets.
2? I saw a guy with 3, and he engraved HurtBox as the name. lmao
But damn, if this accidentally revives Buriki One, that would be hella sick.
@@FahmiZFX LMAO WHAT, please tell me there are pictures
@@Aleebi Tried posting a link but looks like this channel doesn't like that.
Look up "eventhubs hurtbox". Should be the first article you see.
What's the name of the one that has both setups? An arcade stick mixed with buttons for movement
@@guilhermerodrigues465 Hitbox Crossup
How I learned to stop worrying and love the Hitbox
As long as you admit it's cheap.
@@lastburning if hitbox is cheating, then every pro would use it - but its not
@@Sniped137 This didn't age well.
Bring back 3ds touch controls to spam charge moves
another episode to aris' four-part soliloquy on hitboxes
they're gonna send out pokimane to do individual ZJs
It's such a shame that they haven't been able to get this sorted out because I love my hitbox, it's a life-saver in terms of hand/wrist pain.
Would evo staff beat me if I pull up with a logitech office keyboard question mark?
BRO when I saw rooflemonger's video I couldn't wait for you to ridicule this.
I'm training a keyboard layout to learn HitBox muscle memory but I really don't care about all that SOCD stuff. It's a wrist-saver for me...or more a thumb saver. I'd always wreck my thumb on a d-pad, & I could never get a straight left or right out of a stick.
It takes a while with the stick with the left and right, but yea screw all that. Save your thumbs, wrists, hands, and whatever.
Arcade stick fucked my wrist honestly. As a non-competitor I'll stick with hitbox until input tech hopefully evolves again.
@@LegendaryPlank So I tried both Japanese stick and Korean stick. For some reason the Korean stick was better for both input and comfort. I've been on the Korean stick for 3 years now and I felt no pain. I used the Japanese stick for a bit and in one session I felt discomfort in my wrist. That's not to say you should switch to a Korean stick. Just sharing my experience. Use whatever works for you. I am intrigued by the Hitbox however.
@@chucklos391 I definitely preferred K style too, but I won't go back to any stick now tbh.
Rooflemonger is so crazy
I remember SF5 pro player Nephew suggesting a first button priority system for opposed cardinal dirctions. If you hold left and then press right, the device still reads it as left and vice versa. Same for up and down. I couldn't come up with a shortcut to for any moves so far in that scenario. Could be an idea.
What whould happen if someone practice to hit both directions(or more) at the same exact frame?
@@chroma6847 That's a pretty high skill scenario to hit 1 frame every time even on a hitbox, I still don't like the idea it could cheat something though.
the issue with the directions having 0 travel time compared to a stick would still remain even then, which is another reason why this ban is misguided.
@chroma6847 in this particular case there should be no input
Button priority apparently has shortcuts too
I thought the idea was to just implement the "let the software handle it" rule, but apparently they're still allowing ones that implement their own SOCD rules on a hardware level anyway? Which is not letting the software handle it lol. There was an SOCD implementation that had almost no cheated shortcuts so shouldn't they just go with that?
Problem is that Hitboxes need some sort of SOCD option because problems occur if you try playing older games with them. A lot of events have retro games setups and if those players want to use them they would have to bring two hitboxes which starts to get silly.
@@servebotfrank4082 Hell, MvC3 is going to be a main game this year. Isn't there literally no SOCD prevention in that game, meaning you can block in both directions at the same time?
@@AirLancer THE POWER
This and previous video Aris debated about hitbox, damn lol
Laughs in new SOCD instant DP shortcut, just as you await the day hitbox is banned, I await the day arcade sticks are so ancient that they are no longer used, every company from hori to madcatz just makes all button controllers instead.
It ain’t cheating if nobody is using arcade sticks, everybody will be using a hitbox, it’s a bright new world, time to move on old man.
the day the shortcuts go away leverless players will drop it, shortcuts is what makes the controller strong
@@blazestation408 pretty much, if that happens I'll just switch to six face button fightpads which was what I was using before, does everything an fight stick can but better
I still think even without shortcuts hitbox is still strong due to accuracy and reduced user input lag BUT it will require allot more skill and you have to be gifted with piano fingers strength. at least it will be more balanced due to increased human error
@@blazestation408 It's part. I am switching to lever less because the diagonals are so much more accurate. Stuff likeOmen or JFRS in Tekken become complete no issues. Perfect electric as well. It's so easy to hit it when every direction is it's own button.
Other things are more annoying like half circle motions, but nothing you can't get used to.
The millie is on the line so I could see them thinking of more rules in an attempt have more instances covered.
Damn, it doesn't effect me but honestly glad to see at least a discussion being brought forward to even the playing field.
Those hitbox guiles really have been hurting a lot of people. Lmao.
Btw, this is a BUFF to leverless controllers.
Seems like a lot of people think leverless controllers are banned completely. They aren't. They just need to follow specific rules, and are still among the best controllers for FGs.
Doesn't really even the playing field just forces people to use more awkward input devices. I personally can't use a stick but can use a hitbox / keyboard just fine.
@@JHattsy How is struggling with stick without any practice an accessibility issue rather than a skill issue though... Also how do you not see hitbox / keyboard as a massive advantage? Anyone who says it doesn't give an edge either has no clue what they are talking about, or is trying to protect their ego.
I built a hitbox just to abuse rulesets allowing it cause because I KNOW how much of an advantage it give me.
-Much easier to block overheads (literally lift a finger)
-Quicker block switch timing for left/right mix (extremely helpful for games like dbfz)
-Instant dashes without having to input forward/back more than once for games without dash macro
-Can KBD in tekken with only 1 vulnerable frame with 100% accuracy
-Can block out of walk forward without a neutral input
All of this doesn't even acknowledge the amount of motion input shortcuts available, or the general boost in input consistency.
The Capcom change doesn't address the biggest issue of hitbox being able to skip across neutral inputs.
I thought hitbox was cheap before I got one, then I built one and now I think it's even more bullshit than before I had one. This thing is legit cheating but until its straight up banned I will abuse it
@@SeasonsIntheAbyss8 stop it bruh, it’s a strong device that requires practice that use effectively, it’s not “Legit cheating” or whatever anyone over the age of 35 says. Simply a strong input device
@@SeasonsIntheAbyss8 respectably, I'm not reading all that. Learn to sum up your thoughts in not-a-college-essay.
Controller is easier than stick, should we ban all controllers?
That's as far as I read.
detective arnis at it again
Hitbox is cheap because you're able to press two diametrical opposite inputs at the same time. (Up + Down, or Left + Right). Which is physically impossible with a fightstick lever. Being able to do this creates different types of 'shortcuts' or cheap, cheat options.
you dont get left and right tho. if you press both you get neutral. you can only ever get one input at a time. Pad can also do that btw.
Get owned Diego.
People want hitbox banned because of travel time in directions. Absolutely none of them mention pad where travel time is also Tiny compared to stick.
You also now have fightpads with the ability to do a lot of the stuff you can do on hitbox.
And no one mentions keyboards either.
At this point, it’s the leverless players, the keyboard players and the pad players just fucking getting on with it, and the stick users loudly shouting in a corner.
Except pad is fucking not, you can’t press forward+back at the same time on pad unless you use the buttplug. Travel distance is different on every device, but holding two buttons and then letting go off one is clearly the fastest.
@@sofaking9404 forward and back give you neutral so there’s literally no reason to do that. You can also press forward on the dpad and back on the stick. It’s marginally faster yeah, but is that making much of a difference. Both pad and leverless are better than stick, but leverless isn’t loads better than pad, not at all.
arcade cabinets in evo only
I'd like to say they're in some process of refinement/iteration with this rule, but the game releases in just a few months and EVO isn't very long after that.
Gormless hitbox users..
I thought the old rules were that Capcom mandated that Up + Down was Up, because that's how it was for PS4 and it like... was WORSE if it was neutral.
This. So it is where the nasty HitBox took it from.
@@sulfreez I remember when my original Hori stick broke (Because it was a PS2 Soul Calibur 2 stick) I used keyboard for a while. That was even MORE broken in SF4. Left + Right wasn't neutral, it was whatever you hit most recent so you could do instant Sonic Boom to Charge. It was crazy. At least they fixed that part.
@@Kasaaz Fighting game devs have to account for simultaneous inputs since the analogue controllers are tourney legal. I think that following the CPT logic a pad allows for "up+down" input on d-pad and analog, so it should have a SOCD cleaner too.
@@sulfreez Yeah, it's a mess. At this point they should just follow whatever the default specs of the controller for the console of choice.
let the games begin. Banning buttons next
I agree with most of what he had to say but saying "im charging the next sonic boom before I even throw it" is a bit reckless. While holding forward (which currently on hitboxes = neutral) you are not charging the next sonic boom. Sure the window is small, but there are tons of people who truly think you can be charging and executing moves. Also if they are so cheap, just use one. Everyone is cool with "do whatever it takes to win" with your playstyle, but they are unwilling to switch controllers. Everyone has access to a hitbox.
It’s 250 dollars + shipping
@@sofaking9404 A. Build your own for cheaper, Junkfood Arcades offers some parts to make a leverless stick while places like Focus Attack offer those AFB Layout to figure it out on your own. Hitbox is just the faster option to play on it.
B. It's not worth it atm since there's no PS5 support. Don't know how the hell they haven't figured it out but it's not there. Compared to a Hori Fightstick thats $200 for PS5/PS4/PC.
the actual game sf6 turns up+down into neutral, so i think thats why
Easiest solutions(not saying they're the best, just the easiest) are to either ban all leverless controllers or making them the new standard, thus forcing everyone to switch from lever to leverless
The biggest challenge that people still don’t get is I could set my and down to make neutral but could make my 4th button on the bottom (3kicks) equal up so literally nobody would know. That’s always been the problem. Not policeable
That's not exclusive to hitbox though? Anyone could be cheating with any device if they have the drive, including pad.
It's a wacky change to make for a game with no super jumps, no instant air moves and easy execution across the board.
Using a controller to circumvent intended limitations that a system is balanced around should obviously never be allowed. It would be like if goalies started to wear big ass capes that they tied to the edges of the goal to block shots with the fabric of their outfits. Dressing up like a Superman Liberace hybrid isn't an evolution of the game it is a devolution... you know what screw it, where'd I put that bong water.
My list of solutions to level the playing field:
1. Forget sticks, they are irrelevant and are not default controllers anymore. Also the claim that every fighting game is assembled around a stick may be false, no one knows what developer thinks. Even if it was true, then again who cares, let's make leverless the default one, cause it's easier now (+keyboards).
2. Make First Input Win for SOCD. It will eliminate shortcuts whatsoever. (hard to police)
3. Program the game engine to demand let's say 1frame of neutral between left-right and up-down, that will autopolice those, who abuses Last input Win socd setting. But will hurt the 'good guys' who will use first win input setting. So that will demand some relearning for both. Won't affect stick users.
4. Allow all inputs simultaneously by pcb, let the game engine decide what is right and wrong (hard to police)
@Rute Fernandes hey. some may say sticks were before analogs on pads. So what is simulating what. Also analogs are much more versatile, they kinda replace mouse movements in rts/fps games and steering wheel in racing games. That is why the sheer existance of analog sticks on modern consoles is not the excuse to arcade sticks for me. Pads also have trigger buttons and regular buttons, so hitbox emulates those, right? by the same principal hibox is legit, it reffers to ultimate denominator - the pad.
Anyway, pads are the grey zone of fair play, you just have to adopt the idea that they will not go away, they come in the box and designed to appeal to any game genre, can't compete with that. Pads cause all of the refferential 'whataboutism' when defending your own controller type and screws over any argument in hitbox vs stick debate.
Never thought Capcom is a huge stoned Aris fan
If shorcuts are the problem, isn't it a game issue? You can dp with df, df + p on stick in SFV.
Sfiv was even crazier with shortcuts. I could literally buffer a super or ultra with d df only! With timing, it became impossible to even throw a fireball at me lol.
I think this change has little to do with them actually wanting to nerf things like Guile flashkicking from a crouching position. They could just forcibly add at least 1F of standing to the flash kick animation itself if they wanted to and give other "problematic" moves similar treatment.
No this change is because Capcom wants the community to move away from hardware having built in SOCD as a standard. And i completely agree with them, hardware level socd is a thing of the past where it was needed because old games allowed things like blocking in both directions at once and other shit of that level that made the games quite unplayable.
These days it's better to just let the game decide what to do with the inputs, the controller shouldn't do anything... imo anyway.
They would be fair if you physically couldnt push the opposite direction without lifting the other, thats completely in line with everything else. However im not sure that will happen cause the companies want to make it as cheap as possible and I dont think anyone will ban it that far
been using these things for like 10 years, damn you daigo.
oh well good luck banning keyboards on your game you sell on PC
What are you talking about, keyboards don't follow the same socd rules as hitboxes do and won't get banned under these rules.
@@29once Under these rules the hitbox is just a keyboard, That's the entire point I was making. there is not much more you can do to regulate leverless due to PC being a default platform, Since the video is basically saying this change isnt enough.
@@A_Brainless_Goblin Ok, I get your point now, I didn't understand your comment at first :)
The in-person rules for Keyboard is arguably worse than their rule for SOCD.
That said, if you play online only, these rules will probably never, ever effect you regardless of what you play with.
This only affects tournaments my guy. No worries
I don't even compete, but people are being bitches about this. Controllers also can be modified and do even crazier stuff than a hitbox. It's dumb to ban anything since it's an uncontrollable situation regardless unless you spend a lot of money on regulation enforcement.
It's not dumb to can't something uncontrollable.. If the game wasn't designed for it then it wasn't.. Unless u have physical haddicap I guess it's fine.. U can't play a game dev.. If they didn't have hitbox in mind... Consoles shouldn't even allow controllers like it.. In general.. I used a custom hitbox and on modern.. Some weird glitches game breaking u can do...
@@optionvice8926 unless tournament organizers want to have a sponsored arcade stick that is at each station and no one is allowed to use their own device, then banning things that everyone technically has access to is a bad idea.
like aris briefly mentioned a better solution would be actually designing the game around that issue instead. "perfect sonic boom" type things could've been a step in the right direction - having a "later" input timing being the best ( or only) version of the move, since really only hitboxes are gonna get down then up / left then right in the very next frame. then, disable charging for a couple frames after the move comes out to negate the instant hold back advantage, and there you go.
not designing the game around digital controllers is stupid as hell dude, it's 2023. hitboxes are already widely adopted. you can do socd trickery on any hardware if you really want, even pad. bro i play on keyboard on my pc, who the fuck is gonna stop me.
so silly
100% Totally fixable by the devs in the engine's code. Just have the game discard any other directional state when a new direction is pressed.
whats silly to to have devs develop a game around a controller with one of the lowest percentages of users. its not going to happen. digital inputs are the standard no matter how hard you try to justify using a bitchbox.
once Sony and Microsoft ship their consoles with hitboxes instead of controllers, then you can try to make a solid argument about why games need to be developed around hitboxes. until then, you could just not be a scrub and use a standard controller that doesn't allow multiple directional inputs to be pressed simultaneously
its quiet honestly as fucking simple as it can be
@@TC14 thats not the issue. the SOCD takes place before the input is sent to the game, AKA, the controller decides if up+down is neutral or up before the game has any say
@@kviju ur kidding right? pads have dpads and keyboards work the same as hitboxes. those are supported controllers played by the majority of ppl, NOT arcade sticks. it's not just hitbox. and you can do the kind of thing hitbox does with either of these as well (though you'd have to remap one of the pad buttons to be equally frame perfect but it's not hard to do especially on PC)
@@kodoy no im not kidding. you'd have to be smoking a deep dick pizza if you think keyboards are some how the equivalent of a pad.
im watching EVO japan right now. wanna guess how many players are using a fucking keyboard? lmfao tired of scrubs that have no business being in the FGC having an opinion about it
The first thing I noticed going from stick to cheatbox was the ability to anti air people on reaction online with DP. Just makes it so much
faster and more fIuid with the small responsive buttons. Never modded the thing, this advantage is speaking strictly to the controller itself.
That isn't a peripheral thing? Plenty of people can react dp with stick.
@@LegendaryPlank probably, all I know is that for me I struggled to anti air dp offline on stick but the second I switched to hitbox I was able to do it online easily. The stick just adds so much more travel time
@@thesmilingvagrants Does being a more efficient device make it cheating?
@@LegendaryPlank IMO yes, fgs are played for the most part on pad. If a 250$ unlicensed product is dominating the mainstage by having not only a mechanical superiority (what is said in the video) aswell as having easier execution in dp and qcx which are the most common commands we have a problem.
That said, half circles, full circles etc etc are harder to pull off. But due to the simplification of fighting games (read: retardation) we see less of these inputs.
@@LegendaryPlank not at all. Like I said I never modded mine but I immediately recognized it's power without even being modded which is definitely cheating
Hitbox not allowed. What about keyboard? Technically it's a same shit
Primal rage tournaments should be hit box only
I think it might be because of favoritism with certain tournament "players". I doubt its the controller itself.
Ban everything, fist fights it is.
The thumbnail is tight, good shid n0pants
8:37 classic ending shoot
Something I follow often in programming aris, can't fix a problem with a solution that causes problems. That shit happens all the time!
I use a mix box cause I dont like moving my left wrist and I play a lot of pc games so the wasd is more comfortable to me (technically its arrow keys the W is slighty offset to the left on wasd but arrow keys are stight so the mixbox is arrow keys and not was, I wish I could change it but its still comfortable)
The right thing to do would be to send all the inputs to the game, so the game decides what has to be done.
Tekken7 and SF5 already have this. Strangely enough SF5 has neutral SOCD for horizontal and "up" as a priority for vertical inputs.
@@sulfreez incorrect. In SFV left + right = walking towards opponent and up + down = up.
@@antonsundin2974 Thanks for the correction. Still doesn't pad register the opposing directions pressed at once?
@@sulfreez Pads have no built in SOCD which means it's sending both of the opposing inputs to the game. It's then up to the game to decide what happens. In SFV you will talk towards your opponent while in SF6 they've changed it so you do nothing aka neutral.
Because they changed how SF6 is programmed to behave they also felt it was necessary to make all input devices behave the same way and so they changed the rules to reflect this.
So all legal tournament devices will now give you up+down=neutral and left+right=neutral in SF6.
I think this change had little to do with them wanting to nerf specific moves or characters. It's just to make the game and it's tournament scene more uniform.
@@antonsundin2974 If the programming to deal with it exists in the game, then what's the problem? That comes off as overstepping their bounds. Game company's job is to program the game. Not decide what controller(s) the players want to use.
i do like your opinions for sure though. im just genuinely curious.
Is it cheating or are levered controllers just becoming outdated? Because most fighting games and competitive fighting game players play on PC due to superior graphics and less input delay. And PC gives you immediate access to a keyboard controller which is essentially the same as a hit-box. It’s like complaining about using mouse and a keyboard in a FPS shooter game instead of using a PS / Xbox controller. People still enjoy using controllers for those games but at a competitive level you’re gonna use mouse and keyboard. I reckon the competitive scene of fighting games just need to adapt to the new and accept that leverless controllers should be the new meta. And like you said with titles like Project L coming out there’s going to be a new wave of fighting game players that play on keyboard and don’t have the nostalgic attachment to arcade sticks and console controllers.
PC won't be the new norm graphics cards are gonna be mad expensive due to... Crypto again.. And streaming games will be the norm as internet gets better and cloud technology... Having window 11 installed makes customization certain part of computer in unrefundable... So PC is not the future... Because they don't us to crack games and software is not another reason.
Plus mouse and keyboard players complain about controllers more often.. And console player complain about key coma and binding and easy hacks*
It's the main reason pads were incorporated into games, the wide use of them made it an obvious path once home consoles became a thing.
So i don't see why this is any different, there's a gray area since the games themselves haven't had any fundamental changes yet but I don't see why they won't.
>Aris calls out Hitboxes
*Tons of bitching and coping*
>Capcom takes actions towards Hitboxes
"Yeah, they're kinda broken lol"
too high to understand so i’ll just agree
hitbox a.k.a cheaterbox
The matchup between hitbox and hitbox is considered fair, as both have equal advantages. However, when comparing a hitbox to an arcade stick, it is seen as unfair because a hitbox has a hardware advantage.
what advantage does Hitbox have that pad doesnt also have?
how to police the hitbox : bring in the armored cars
the stricter the games input the harder the hitbox gets, leverless will always have the potential but the shortcuts is what makes them strong without shortcuts its still good but very hard to keep the rhythm fo executing the moves as intended.
from my experience using leverless the main advantage was basic movement so good and blocking really fast gives you the sensation there is no lag at all and very responsive however on stick am much faster and better on execution i can react from a scramble from a confirm into combo intinctively, sure i can do those combos on leverless but moves speed is faster on stick (am not talking bout shortcuts) just using leveless without shortcuts you need build up the foundation first before going into shortcuts imho
also with leveless the amount of time youl miss an input due to not letting go of the previous direction happens allot eg ⬇↘➡ if you finger doesnt let go of ⬇ youl get ⬇↘ or do it fast and you get this ↘➡ some moves require to relase at diffrent time in diffrent situation with diffrent rythem this a common thing and will never go away unless you blessed with piano strong fingers so the potentila is there but most will never reach that cause of limitation of the weak finger no matter how hard you practice the potential is just that for the 1%ers overall pad and stick still more accessible and will level up players much better on AVERAGE
They also inadvertently banned keyboard and pad players, they really didn't think this through
Capcom is on some shit with this one
could someone explain how the SOCD rules open up new shortcut exploits? i don't understand, thanks
man this guy gets it.
The Hitbox arms race is fun to watch.
me buying sf6 today but got declined by capcom because I don't have fightstick controller. rip for me bros...
The fact that so many people in the comments think you can fix this in the game's code is depressing
Literally the rule should be no socd cleaning, then they actually balance patch their games with whatever inputs they want to happen.
Just ban left+right and up+down inputs. If a controller can input left+right and up+down at the same time, it's cheating, because these inputs are impossible on pad and stick
I have been saying this but that would actively make the hitbox harder to use, hitbox users have shit execution so that wouldnt work😂
Pads can input opposite cardinal directions if you use the D-pad and the Analog Stick at the same time, but since it has no native SOCD cleaning, the *game* is the one responsible for reading and interpreting the left+right or up+down inputs
Keyboards are pretty much the same thing
All button controllers however, have their own internal SOCD cleaning thats works independently from the game,
The way SF6 cleans inputs for pads and keyboards is that if you press opposite directions, you always get Neutral, so Left+Right=Neutral and Up+Down=Neutral
The change Capcom made pretty much makes it so that every input device has to have the same "cleaning method" for SOCD, so even if you clean your inputs with your input device (aka hitbox), Up+Down=Neutral
man... this shit sounds really confusing
@@nickkiller-0710 That's a good point and great explanation actually. Wow, ok, this topic is a bit more complex than I thought. Thanks for the response 👍
Better idea: Instead of even having this argument about controllers, they should get with their dev team to code their game in a way that won't accept dumb inputs. If they want up+down = neutral, then update their game to interpret it that way. Leave the controllers and players alone.
completely stoned comment
I've always wondered why they didn't do this. Probably because it's just now that cheatboxes are gaining popularity? We might see this implemented in SF7 and Tekken 9 or maybe in Project L since that game is still in mid-development.
The game already have SOCD, the problem is the controller also have SOCD. So if you input UP+DOWN, the controller will only send UP to the game, not UP and DOWN so the dev can’t do anything about that
They do already do that. The Hitbox itself reads Up+Down and sends just Up to the game. Its been like that for 20 years because games would read it all types of different ways and it was done on the hardware side to standardize it.
I moved to hit box due to inputs on pad being fucked. U can hit the right button and get down. It happens and all current pads. I got and arcade stick and then was like this is cool but still doesn't solve the " I only intended this one exact direction/input" Guess growing up without arcades and old pads directional buttons being digital buttons fuked me.
how can you charge the next sonic boom before throwing the first one if left+right=neutral? and how does up+down=neutral open a new can of worms?
Brian F has a video that sort of went over it. He puts it better than I could, even if he doesn't discuss every permutation.
@@Shion_VI yes I actually saw it haha. Guile's charge is getting nerfed and some Chun Li is getting buffed apparently. But you need 2 sets of movement buttons to charge which the hitbox doesn't have, you'd need the crossup. You can also do up+down=up as Guile on ps4/5 controllers if you use the analog stick to press the up with while holding down so it's not just the hitbox
But EVO Moment #37 would have been impossible if Daigo couldn't have used a Hitbox back then.
he didnt
@@wampaisen I was there he totally did.
Hitbox literally didnt exist back then lol
@@WafflesOWNz EXACTLY. Young kids these days need to be educated.
Biggest thing tho, would you consider a scuf controller in comp halo,gears,cod whatever cheating or an advancement because you can now aim move and also press any button at the same time?? just like a keyboard provides for each game.
Cant be done
One less excuse for the pool drowners lmao
"Don't talk to me."
Keep in mind the current shortcuts aren't nearly as useful the u+d=u. And they can also make leverless controllers fix the other short cuts through firmware and if they can't, just outright ban them
Interesting way to balance hitbox could be: if you press an opposite direction button while the other cardinal button is still held, then the second button doesn’t work, even if you release the first button.
hey alright happy big friday
bong user confirmed
The biggest fighting game is Smash. Not considering it a fighting game is a massive cope. A cope I expected, but a cope nonetheless.
Brook firmware update came out within an hour lol
*ATP = AvoidingThePoint* (Capcom that is.)
Everybody keeps saying the up+down=neutral creates new shortcuts without listing any. Not saying they don't, but actually list some instead of being vague.
by inputting 639P you can get the 3 frame DP they had explicitly patched out for SF6 when the socd is neutral, and chun upkicks are also faster. It's mostly just a nerf for down up charge moves, but either inconsequential or a mild buff towards motion characters
If hitbox was really such a huge advantage, every top pro would use it.
Facts
SFV wise, its proven to have lot of advantages, to the point lot top players switched to it. But yea its not instant win even when u use that. Pad and sticks tho at little disadvantage, they can still win vs hitbox, depends on character matchup and skill of the players.
Track balls on the hot seat
Daaamn thats tough lmao
Fair is fair doods! if a stick cant go up and down at the same time, then you cant. It's fair! Until everyone has it.
Hitboxes take time to learn but once you do it can make very technical and execution heavy techniques easy peasy. And that's nothing to say about how you can make a button hold two directional inputs at once when that's physically impossible on a stick
It's actually possible on a controller when you use the dpad and control stick. A stick has only one way to use directional inputs while a controller has two.
@@ChaserTech why would you want to do that lol
@@ChaserTech no shit but it's not a single button press. You are gonna have to claw the controller or do whatever weird shit to do that. Also hitboxes allow for several buttons on one. You can make wavu wavu a button push. And before you even say you can hotkey buttons on controller/stick that is true but nowhere near the level of a hitbox with all the options it gives. One button could equal a sequence of buttons in order 1-2-3 where as most standard hotkey options you can bind 1+2+3 but not in a sequence. They are just plain and simple a huge and unfair advantage but some of the best players use them, and the FGC is already a niche scene. Outright banning them would only hurt events by cutting out fan favorite players, but on the other hand it would also level the playing field as it stands if you play against anyone with a hitbox they already have a big advantage.
@@austin432432 nuckledu has been doing weird pad grips since SF4 and he was/is one of the best guiles in the US
@@ChaserTech removed in SF6, and also ergonomically the convenience of it on a leverless controller vs pad is not even close to the same thing. That's just an argument hitbox apologists use to stretch the rules and allow it.
why would capcom ban pad like this
Having the ability to input neutral two separate ways is the issue.
Yeah I really don't understand their thought process. I agree with Hitbox on this one that it has to be up. It pretty much punishes you for pressing up and down at the same time while also giving you an advantage during specific moments (like meeting them up in the air).
aris
Just play on a keyboard you have an hitbox, but hitbox just makes classic controls no different than modern controls.
Bottom line is the games were fundamentally developed for sticks. Fighting games come from the arcade days. Nothing in terms of their development has changed - they are still fundamentally designed for sticks.
Pads are a grey area since the advent of pads with both a pad and an analog stick - allowing for SOCD. Vanguard used this to do standing 720s back in SFIV days.
Until fighting games are designed to be run on Hitbox as opposed to sticks, in my opinion, sticks and pads should be the only allowed input devices for tournaments.
That was true until the games started being ported to consoles, once that happened, the devs had to consider the fact that most people would be playing on a controller versus a stick. I’m glad they continued to keep making sticks after sf4 came to consoles.
Hitbox is the future of fighting game controller that's all. People needs to adapt that the only thing to do.
So, what are the other shortcuts that can come out of this, I still don't get it.
Lmao the thumbnail