What is the next nation that I should do a guide about? Leave a comment here and join The Discord to chat with me and get the save-game if you're a RUclips Member: discord.gg/ksDjjUhKHd Check out more nation guides here: ruclips.net/p/PLsO8A6cTBgguX6W3b2j-9IlbSHn2nR8wO
I remember when I played through a Jianzhou to Manchu to Qing way when! Its a very fun playthrough that very much has the sense that you play in your own little world before bursting out as a major regional and then world power. It's a shame mine died pretty quickly as I ended up at over 30 corruption, 0 mandate, and far too many loans :D Great video as always
i had a really cool manchu into ming game like a year ago, was tons of fun, but then the game broke in 1550 preventing me from continuing ever, as it always 100% crashed on the same day
Same here as well, I had a hard time maintaining my economy earlier on and was relatively new to EU4 (so didn't know much about the bank of Ming xD) and it ended my Qing run pretty fast. Though it's an interesting playthrough and I personally like these runs cause I used to live in Asia so I have fun trying to own the provinces I used to live in IRL XD
@@hwoarang6799x I actually wouldnt want him to form russia at all, i hate how elements from the forming country aren’t implemented into the newly formed nation (although i think theres a mod that does just that).
for mongolia: set syncretic faith to confucian get ming to support your independence win war with oirat, take qaraqorum and as many provinces you can (try to snake to chagatai), and independence ofc. do not give anything to ming immediatly start a war with haixi, if you don't ming will ask you to become tributary, you don't want that right away because mongolia's first mission is to have cored qaraqorum and to be fully independent (you get kingdom rank for free) refusing tributary lowers trust with ming and you won't be able to become their tributary later (if you are at war, ming can't ask you to become their tributary) once your mission is done, peace out the war, again take all provinces you can, with haixi provinces you can embrace feudalism become ming tributary, expand into manchuria and chagatai (if you can, ming sometimes desires the land you would take to border chagatai) rest is the same as manchu basically
I wanna add that around 11:00 when you're talking about breaking tributary: when you break tributary status, you get a 5 year truce, and the Unguarded Frontier only ticks up when you border Ming and have no truce (+ of course the other normal conditions). Once you hit around 250 dev, you can start refusing Ming's annual request for tribute (recommending 250 dev as it takes a couple years for Ming to get mad about this, and between conquering provinces in the area and developing the renaissance, you should make it to 300 dev soon) - because when Ming cancels tributary status due to low trust/relations, there's no truce and the disaster starts ticking up right away. By 1450 you can be mid-war with Ming, declared on them using the Take Mandate of Heaven CB for lowered warscore cost for provinces.
I started a manchu camlaign 2 days ago. Chose to eat all the tribes and amlost all of korea. Got some provinces from Mongolia too. Luckly Ming didnt even pass the first reform till 1479 when I attacked them. Definitely take Beijing in the first war itself. Gotta tank that mandate.
Ah nice my favorite nation to form Japan with. Just conquer Ainu and use them as a staging ground to attack the closest Daimyo (preferably when some are disloyal or at war). Rush down Kyoto in the war and make sure to take it in the peace deal. taking Kyoto makes all daimyos independent so you can attack each of them separately once your truce is up. After that you simply culture switch by unstating some of your Manchu provinces.
Great guide. I’d suggest not razing the provinces however, because when you form Manchu and fight Korea (and annex large amount if their nation) you can reach 300 development and pass the threshold for Ming to start getting the Unguarded Nomadic Frontier disaster Edit: you can rush these nations by 1455-60 when you can attack Ming.:)
Ternate into Malaya is fun. Going Totemist as them even more so. You should definitely cover it, if not as a guide, as something for A to Z. I feel like Ternate isn't talked about nearly enough for how fun it can get, because you can make soooo much money as them, and Totemist is just broken as hell.
Will you ever do uzbek? There are no guides for uzbek anywhere on RUclips or reddit (I've seen some but they're really bad) I'm from Uzbekistan and would love to see a guide from a favorite RUclipsr of mine of my lovely home country 😀😊❤
Uzbek's pretty simple. 1. Build a spy network on Kazan. Yes, you're a Horde, but build a spy network on Kazan. Claim Bashgrid. 2. Uzbek culture is actually a very small minority in the Uzbek provinces; most of the country is split between Kazakh and Sibir provinces. This can cause you a lot of unrest which is a pain in the neck to deal with due to the sheer size of your provinces and the time it takes to travel. So what you do? You release Sibir as a vassal. Their land is crap, so you actually get more troops out of them this way, and much less unrest. Since your border province with Kazan is a Sibir core, this is why you wanted to make the claim. 3. make friends with whoever hates Kazan (Nogai or great Horde), and declare for your claim. Take the gold mine and whatever else you want. Now, you simply play as a typical Horde. You have plots of avenues for expansion, with Sunni Tatars and Orthodox Russians to the west, Mostly-Shia Persians to the south, and Tengri Altaics to the east. Just cycle between the three and you should have little to no AE issues at all. Now, something to consider is Bukhara; Once you own Samarkand, you can choose to form this nation with a decision. Generally I advise that you don't, because it is a non-horde with generic horde ideas and no mission tree. However, if you want to play a completely generic Sunni kingdom with horde ideas, here you go, I suppose. You'd think that it'd have at least some national ideas for production and trade given its real-world history, but nope, HORSE GO BRRRR
I really gotta hand it to you Hawk. Other guides made me confused and I didn’t know what to do after the guide was over. But your guides actually helped me play better and know what I’m doing. Thanks!
I’d love to see an update to this guide as the France patch made some interesting changes to the area. I just started a new run and the form Manchu decision seems to make Korea your tributary. It has no idea and suddenly had this ultra disloyal tributary.
Personally I never went for Korea in my run, even if it's incredibly rich land to own. From a historical perspective Korea always maintained an allied attitude to both Ming and later Qing, so I wanted to emulate that. Also I think the Diplo and Admin mana you'd spend taking everything can be better spent deving while keeping Korea as your loyal puppet
I usually after finish haixi and donghai, I will just conquer other manchu nation but not core it, keep overextension below 100%, just core enough 20 provinces then one click all become cores, I can still raze the conquered provinces because it is not reconquest cb
Note about getting 20 jurchen provinces: Korea has two! Udege and Haxi plus the two Korean provinces is exactly 20, which is great because you can save conquering donghai for when you have cores
Tip! Upon forming Machu, you can ally some nations next to you and ask for cores until they are small enough to be vassalised. I did that and it was more effective and less expensive than war
Couldn't you take a couple of provinces at the East Coast of Ming, releasing the Minor countries as Vassal and when Ming explodes, their get the cores back through nationalists?
Honestly I wouldn't mind the Mandate of Heaven but all its mechanics do really is weaken you, like sure there's the reforms but they aren't that strong - Maybe if it were a Tier 2 Government reform like Mughal Diwan it could be more interesting. That way you could make some much more interesting combinations.
Good guide, just make sure that you don't raze any jurchen/manchu culture provinces like he does because it reduces the amount of banners you can raise do to the loss of dev.
Are you sure that the rest of the guide is good? I haven't watched it but razing your jurchen/manchu provinces is is such a noob mistake I do not imagine the rest of the guide is any good either.
@@Kodlaken main idea of video is great, just this maybe was mistake. btw raze province anyway give you a lot of MP, banners doesn’t matter a lot of you think. anyway u have largest army of region
How it generally works for me is ming eventually declares on Oirat to force them to be a tributary and to avoid the nomadic frontier, (making oirat an useless ally and possibly a hindrance) thus I generally attack oirat alongside ming Take all I can wait for ming to pass the first reform and declare.
You need a strategy in order to take the mission 'Extinguish Ming'. That's by far the most important mission as it gives you cores on ALL of China. But you need to make sure that Ming doesn't exist at all. Sometimes you think you killed Ming and then realize that they still hold one single province in the middle of the border gore that China has become and you cannot do anything to kill them. So it's best to feed the Ming provinces that you cannot take to Oirat or some minor(either release or return cores to the existing ones). If you manage to take that mission without having cored many provinces, you will save thousands of admin points
Forming Manchu is very straight forward so there is not a lot of difference with my strategy, but there are a couple things I do differently. 1st idea is horde ideas, 2nd is expansion and 3rd is exploration. Then wait for the second reform so you can do the mission bypass the great wall. it gives you a siege of Shenyang for free, and bonus siege. and since it does take a while to do that you can also increase favors with Ming and ask for cores when you are Manchu.
I normally take all but one province from Haixi and humiliate them in my first war. It helps build up splendor for age bonuses faster and boosts your PP up quicker to get it pat the 50pp threshold for more monarch points. Just make sure you don’t give them a needed province to form Manchu.
Would love to see a guide on either Wallachia to Romania or on Gothic Invasion...tried both of these more than a handful of times and they both always manage to fail somehow.
After multiple restarts and constant frustration, I notice my playthroughs that Ming doesn’t pass reforms when they could. I’ve seen up to 90 mandate and it’s still 1450, nothing that can be done on my end because even with the unguarded frontier I don’t provide enough of a negative to decrease mandate effectively. Thoughts?
Really? I never had that issue. Unguarded frontier must definitely be enough to tank Ming's mandate. Alternatively you could expand into Japan and release So as a vassal(it's an island pirate republic) so that they raid Ming coasts and raise devastation.
Big question here. Ming has 14 mandate in my game and their armies still obliterate mine. When I did an Oirat run, they actually were just paper, like in the video. But for some reason in my current game, when I occupy Beijing, I don't get any event, and their armies are still largely unaffected. Obviously a few patches have come out since this video came out, but I'm still really confused as to what's happening. It seems like the Ming is resistant to low mandate as the result of a bug in the new patch or something, unless I'm crazy.
I don't have a lot of administrative points with all these regions to legitimize, the rebirth is slow to arrive so I don't know if I should spam the points in my capital to make it arrive ...
Korea has two provinces in the north that have jurchen culture I'm pretty sure. You get an event for Korea to become your tributary when you form Manchu, don’t. They will ally Ming and be up your rear during every war and will not become your tributary diplomatically after the war in my experience. I usually attack them once before my Ming wars then use them as truce reset three or four times while I annex them, and try to prevent the Japanese from making landfall.
In my game as manchu, ming and corea attack me so hard, then ming explode and form a big strong shun, i can recover some territories from korea but shun again conquer me, F
I actually have to disagree with the start of this video already. I've done several Jianzhou runs, and there is 0 risk of a coalition, there are no countries that could join it other than Korchin. In my last Jianzhou to Manchu run I conquered all the Jurchen provinces in 2 wars: First War: full annex Udege at the start of the game, they are isolated in the center of manchuria and won't find any good allies (or usually any) by the time you can declare on them Second War: Fought one of the other Jurchens and abused alliances (i declared on Haixi, and co-belligerented Donghai and ended up fighting them, Yeren, and Korchin) Truce times are a big issue if you don't just rush it, especially once someone in japan starts consolidating power and rivals you. Plus, once you do that, assuming you allied Solon, Yeren, or Nivkh, you can abuse the "return core" favor action on your "allies" in order to get most of their land, and then easily diplo-vassalize them. One run where i waited too long to take the mandate, i used Solon to eat up Mongolian provinces so i didn't have to core them. Once you finish up with Manchuria, your next war is against korea (they never get alliances). And then you go after Oirat, as by that point you are on-par, or likely stronger than them.
There is this one way to become qing while avoid getting the heaven mandate and crisis system: instead of going all the way to destroy ming. try to push west to get as much Mongolian land as possible and make Mongol your primary culture (by unstating the manchurian culture states and stating mongolian culture states). Then upgrade the government to autocracy using reform and go destroy ming. Once ming is destroyed for whatever reason you can become qing and not get the emperor/mandate system. Another good thing is that if you keep mongol as your primary culture you will get a mission tree which basically gives you all the claims to middle and western asian land. Combining with the qing mission tree the game experience is just awesommmmmme.
Actually if you plan to form Qing, it's likely better to not take Manchu ideas. They're generally better than Jianzhou's. but, the traditions for Jianzhou are better, and you can form Qing so early that you won't get to the point where Manchu ideas are better. You also didn't even mention the mission to get permanent claims over Korchin's land. Which do make it 25% cheaper to core. So there is a value in waiting to attack them. Not that you have to. Just taking the land earlier can be better, but I think there's a lot of things you missed here. And you didn't even mention that you can just get Ming to break the tributary status to not lose stability.
how did you manage to separate peace donghai? I occupied their whole provinces and was in the similar situation you were and they didn't accept my peace...
Here's a bit of a "cheat" way to play Qing. Step 1: take Horde Ideas as first ideas. You're going to have full Banners so you don't really need the manpower anyway. Step 2: Don't take mandate, it will lock your T1 reform. Step 3: Become Qing. Step 4: Change religion back to Tengri. Step 5: Reform into a theocracy. Step 6: ??? Step 7: 100% Cav to Inf ratio and at least 40% Cav Combat Ability as you get the last Theocratic reform "All Under Tengri". Bonus Step: Culture change all of China to Manchu, you only get banners from states so if you don't TC outside of China Culture Convert there too.
I have a situation that I would like y’all‘s input on. So I am doing a Manchu/ jianzhou game. At this Time I’ve taken all of the Manchu region. The only countries around me are Korea Mongolia Ming and oirat and I have an alliance with oirat. Mean hasn’t even passed its first reform for the empire but it has 80 empire points. Oirat Call me into a war with Ming and I excepted and beat Ming up but they still have high empire points. I also activated the quest to give me a really good General. I gained all of Ming‘s provinces up to Beijing. Should I continue to try and milk China by attacking Korea or hold off until they pass their first reform.
Start as Jianzhou, become tributary, eat Haixi, attack Korchin and take all the pronvinces that border Mongólia, eat the other Manchu tribes until you have the provinces to form Manchu. Now look at Ming, If they have passed the first reform and they mandate is low, then form Manchu, make Tengri the sincretic faith, recruit Max cavalary banners, make an army of at least 20k cav and 10k inf and fight only in flat terrain. Take all your cores from Ming except the core of shengzou, the pronvince that have one fort because it will be an enclave and the rebels will take it for you. Take Beijing and max gold and War reparations. Now expand into Korea, Mongolia and the far west, raze they pronvinces, make trade companies and temporary states to prevent corruption growth, make Korean an accepted culture and make full states in the region. Make a proper fleet and do the same with Japan. You can look at some small Tibetan contries and vassalize the one with more cores to reconquest, do it and after one or two Wars you will have the control of Tibet area. It's important to establish control over the far west as soon as possible, to prevent the Timurids or some Horde countries to take Control of the region and then become a rival in your west frontier. And more important, you should prevent the Russian expansion in the region. You can let Siberia to then, but don't let then take the Tartary tribes or the Kazan gold mine. Back to Ming, It should implod after the second War, 0 mandate and banckrupt. Let It happen and declare on each chinese minor to eat the entire China region fast, but give priority to money in the peace treaties. Don't raze the Chinese provinces or spend diplo points to make they culture aceepted, because they will be your core culture and states when you become a Empire. Your true enemies are the corruption, inflation and the economic balance. The cav troops are too spence for the early game, but necessary for the horde War effort, so always demand money in the peace treaties to mantein your army and fight corruption. You can use the Gold mines too, to fortify your economy. To fight inflation buy the inflation reducion adm and use the economic ideas, because the adm points will be spended in the core process. When you destroy your potential enemies and conquer all China so you can form Qing for the more missions ir just keep being Manchu and eat the entire Ásia.
This is very much a step one: attack Ming when their mandate is low, step three: profit! type of guide. But step two… I went after Ming the other day. I had 40k (50% cav, 50% inf). They had less than 20 mandate. They also had about 110k well drilled troops, in 30k stacks. They dogpiled my 40k on the steppe. I had no chance and lost half my army. Next thing, they have taken Jilin and I am tributary again…
Dont rm ming...when they are above 90 mandate, just stop paying tribute, they will cancel tributary status... best time to ⁸crush ming is before mil tech 6...if not than wait for the ming crisis...it is in age of reformation...
Shouldn't you not raze the Jurchen provinces since their development directly affects the amount of banners you can raise? You're not really short of monarch points that early and you can pay your debts from the loyal Bank of Ming in a couple decades.
It says Ming has 57k troops when you are declaring war, but in my game, Ming has 150k with 30k mercs in 1470's? How is that even possible? I kill everything around me, including Oirat and Korea and have about 40k troops so I tried to focus on his army with his Emperor, but only that army alone is 30k.. Man sometimes I feel like this game becomes more unplayable every patch
Could've just reduce your relations with Ming by insulting them every now and then and they themselves will cancel your tributary status, saving precious stability points and ADM points
Unpopular opinion, but Manchu->>>>>>>>>>>>>Qing. Yes it’s hard to maintain hord unity, but hord mechanics and boosts its giving you are overshadowing the negative effects. Also you can easily change your religion to hindu or shinto later on which gives you huge boosts for army, cus your tech and armyes that it will give you are garbage. So no, kids, don’t take mandate and never form Qing. But for me, the best horde is Oirat, wus it the easyest way to form Yuan with it’s insane national ideas and later on mongol empire with the best government reform.
What is the next nation that I should do a guide about? Leave a comment here and join The Discord to chat with me and get the save-game if you're a RUclips Member: discord.gg/ksDjjUhKHd
Check out more nation guides here: ruclips.net/p/PLsO8A6cTBgguX6W3b2j-9IlbSHn2nR8wO
Perm please
How can I join this savegame channel?
Ryukyu
Croatia
Epirus
I remember when I played through a Jianzhou to Manchu to Qing way when! Its a very fun playthrough that very much has the sense that you play in your own little world before bursting out as a major regional and then world power. It's a shame mine died pretty quickly as I ended up at over 30 corruption, 0 mandate, and far too many loans :D Great video as always
Same man same... Becoming Qinq is good for archivement but staying horde as manchu is much much stronger and fun i think
i had a really cool manchu into ming game like a year ago, was tons of fun, but then the game broke in 1550 preventing me from continuing ever, as it always 100% crashed on the same day
Same here as well, I had a hard time maintaining my economy earlier on and was relatively new to EU4 (so didn't know much about the bank of Ming xD) and it ended my Qing run pretty fast. Though it's an interesting playthrough and I personally like these runs cause I used to live in Asia so I have fun trying to own the provinces I used to live in IRL XD
Perm is the best nation. If you don't count the other nations better than Perm.
Perm is definitely a nation in EU4
@@TheRedHawk thats what they want you to think
Haida exists you madman
Some suggestions for future guides:
Novgorod into Russia
Ardabil into Persia
Mongolia into Yuan (I've suggested this one before)
Novgorod is easily one of my favorite nations to play, same with America. I dunno, maybe its a republic thing lol.
Unfortunately Novgorod into Russia bad decision because government reform change into monarchy ;(
Want Republican Russia, i dunno how to make it
@@hwoarang6799x I actually wouldnt want him to form russia at all, i hate how elements from the forming country aren’t implemented into the newly formed nation (although i think theres a mod that does just that).
@@tinyveil ye maybe
for mongolia:
set syncretic faith to confucian
get ming to support your independence
win war with oirat, take qaraqorum and as many provinces you can (try to snake to chagatai), and independence ofc. do not give anything to ming
immediatly start a war with haixi, if you don't ming will ask you to become tributary, you don't want that right away because mongolia's first mission is to have cored qaraqorum and to be fully independent (you get kingdom rank for free) refusing tributary lowers trust with ming and you won't be able to become their tributary later (if you are at war, ming can't ask you to become their tributary)
once your mission is done, peace out the war, again take all provinces you can, with haixi provinces you can embrace feudalism
become ming tributary, expand into manchuria and chagatai (if you can, ming sometimes desires the land you would take to border chagatai)
rest is the same as manchu basically
I wanna add that around 11:00 when you're talking about breaking tributary: when you break tributary status, you get a 5 year truce, and the Unguarded Frontier only ticks up when you border Ming and have no truce (+ of course the other normal conditions). Once you hit around 250 dev, you can start refusing Ming's annual request for tribute (recommending 250 dev as it takes a couple years for Ming to get mad about this, and between conquering provinces in the area and developing the renaissance, you should make it to 300 dev soon) - because when Ming cancels tributary status due to low trust/relations, there's no truce and the disaster starts ticking up right away. By 1450 you can be mid-war with Ming, declared on them using the Take Mandate of Heaven CB for lowered warscore cost for provinces.
A guide to the Knights would be interesting and useful, I think!
anyone remember when ming would explode from Russia walking up and saying "Privet!"
I started a manchu camlaign 2 days ago. Chose to eat all the tribes and amlost all of korea. Got some provinces from Mongolia too. Luckly Ming didnt even pass the first reform till 1479 when I attacked them.
Definitely take Beijing in the first war itself. Gotta tank that mandate.
Yeah for sure, I just couldn’t since Mongolia occupied it
Ah nice my favorite nation to form Japan with.
Just conquer Ainu and use them as a staging ground to attack the closest Daimyo (preferably when some are disloyal or at war).
Rush down Kyoto in the war and make sure to take it in the peace deal. taking Kyoto makes all daimyos independent so you can attack each of them separately once your truce is up.
After that you simply culture switch by unstating some of your Manchu provinces.
Great guide. I’d suggest not razing the provinces however, because when you form Manchu and fight Korea (and annex large amount if their nation) you can reach 300 development and pass the threshold for Ming to start getting the Unguarded Nomadic Frontier disaster
Edit: you can rush these nations by 1455-60 when you can attack Ming.:)
Ternate into Malaya is fun. Going Totemist as them even more so. You should definitely cover it, if not as a guide, as something for A to Z. I feel like Ternate isn't talked about nearly enough for how fun it can get, because you can make soooo much money as them, and Totemist is just broken as hell.
Will you ever do uzbek? There are no guides for uzbek anywhere on RUclips or reddit (I've seen some but they're really bad) I'm from Uzbekistan and would love to see a guide from a favorite RUclipsr of mine of my lovely home country 😀😊❤
Yesh I’ll do Uzbek!
@@TheRedHawk thanks 😭😭
Uzbek's pretty simple.
1. Build a spy network on Kazan. Yes, you're a Horde, but build a spy network on Kazan. Claim Bashgrid.
2. Uzbek culture is actually a very small minority in the Uzbek provinces; most of the country is split between Kazakh and Sibir provinces. This can cause you a lot of unrest which is a pain in the neck to deal with due to the sheer size of your provinces and the time it takes to travel. So what you do? You release Sibir as a vassal. Their land is crap, so you actually get more troops out of them this way, and much less unrest. Since your border province with Kazan is a Sibir core, this is why you wanted to make the claim.
3. make friends with whoever hates Kazan (Nogai or great Horde), and declare for your claim. Take the gold mine and whatever else you want.
Now, you simply play as a typical Horde. You have plots of avenues for expansion, with Sunni Tatars and Orthodox Russians to the west, Mostly-Shia Persians to the south, and Tengri Altaics to the east. Just cycle between the three and you should have little to no AE issues at all.
Now, something to consider is Bukhara; Once you own Samarkand, you can choose to form this nation with a decision. Generally I advise that you don't, because it is a non-horde with generic horde ideas and no mission tree. However, if you want to play a completely generic Sunni kingdom with horde ideas, here you go, I suppose. You'd think that it'd have at least some national ideas for production and trade given its real-world history, but nope, HORSE GO BRRRR
@@TheRusty There's also a gold mine in chagatai
@@TheRusty also so true, samarkand and bukhara were such large and important cities of their time, it makes 0 sense that bukhara has no idea set
Very fitting since your recent A-Z
True!
He's going to get to Jianzhou in about 3 years
I really gotta hand it to you Hawk. Other guides made me confused and I didn’t know what to do after the guide was over. But your guides actually helped me play better and know what I’m doing. Thanks!
Glad I could help!
If you declare on Korea quick you can get 2 correct culture provinces I think 🤔
Yes. Korea does have two provinces with the current culture, though you don't get cores on them when you form Manchu for some reason.
You forgot that you can pretty easily get Pyramid of Skulls by razing a province with 30 dev. Razing Beijing works, as it starts with 31 development.
Yeah easy achievement
I was literally just thinking I wanted you to cover one of these guides 😆
Another great guide dude, can we get a guide for Ethiopia soon? I love playing in that region.
Yeah as soon as 1.32 drops!
Uesugi quietly popping off in Japan.
These tutorials are really good and not as fast as other youtubers. Thank you
Could you do a "what if everyone was a tributary of Ming in 1444" scenario?
I’d love to see an update to this guide as the France patch made some interesting changes to the area. I just started a new run and the form Manchu decision seems to make Korea your tributary. It has no idea and suddenly had this ultra disloyal tributary.
I remember 3k subs red hawk with tts ... congrats on growing so much :)
I hope you do another guide but for qing, i really like this guide 😁
Personally I never went for Korea in my run, even if it's incredibly rich land to own. From a historical perspective Korea always maintained an allied attitude to both Ming and later Qing, so I wanted to emulate that. Also I think the Diplo and Admin mana you'd spend taking everything can be better spent deving while keeping Korea as your loyal puppet
I usually after finish haixi and donghai, I will just conquer other manchu nation but not core it, keep overextension below 100%, just core enough 20 provinces then one click all become cores, I can still raze the conquered provinces because it is not reconquest cb
Note about getting 20 jurchen provinces: Korea has two! Udege and Haxi plus the two Korean provinces is exactly 20, which is great because you can save conquering donghai for when you have cores
I’ve already done Manchuria. I just came to make sure you took the Manpower option on your Tier 2 government reform. Good Job, Red.
Is Mr. Red finally mastering the art of "Clickbait"?
No no no not click bait! Just..clever misdirection
Tip! Upon forming Machu, you can ally some nations next to you and ask for cores until they are small enough to be vassalised. I did that and it was more effective and less expensive than war
You can exchange favor for your core back as well.
True
Couldn't you take a couple of provinces at the East Coast of Ming, releasing the Minor countries as Vassal and when Ming explodes, their get the cores back through nationalists?
It’s not really worth it imo
Honestly I wouldn't mind the Mandate of Heaven but all its mechanics do really is weaken you, like sure there's the reforms but they aren't that strong - Maybe if it were a Tier 2 Government reform like Mughal Diwan it could be more interesting. That way you could make some much more interesting combinations.
taking the mandate seems to just be the “Just Fuck My Shit Up” peace option
Once you have enough tributaries mandate won't be an issue. And having the force tributary cb is pretty decent.
Good guide, just make sure that you don't raze any jurchen/manchu culture provinces like he does because it reduces the amount of banners you can raise do to the loss of dev.
good tip ty
Are you sure that the rest of the guide is good? I haven't watched it but razing your jurchen/manchu provinces is is such a noob mistake I do not imagine the rest of the guide is any good either.
@@Kodlaken main idea of video is great, just this maybe was mistake. btw raze province anyway give you a lot of MP, banners doesn’t matter a lot of you think. anyway u have largest army of region
How it generally works for me is ming eventually declares on Oirat to force them to be a tributary and to avoid the nomadic frontier, (making oirat an useless ally and possibly a hindrance) thus I generally attack oirat alongside ming Take all I can wait for ming to pass the first reform and declare.
23:30 It is kind of weird how some people buy a DLC and then go out of their way to avoid any special features from it.
You need a strategy in order to take the mission 'Extinguish Ming'. That's by far the most important mission as it gives you cores on ALL of China. But you need to make sure that Ming doesn't exist at all. Sometimes you think you killed Ming and then realize that they still hold one single province in the middle of the border gore that China has become and you cannot do anything to kill them. So it's best to feed the Ming provinces that you cannot take to Oirat or some minor(either release or return cores to the existing ones). If you manage to take that mission without having cored many provinces, you will save thousands of admin points
Did my first and only WC with Manchu
Forming Manchu is very straight forward so there is not a lot of difference with my strategy, but there are a couple things I do differently. 1st idea is horde ideas, 2nd is expansion and 3rd is exploration. Then wait for the second reform so you can do the mission bypass the great wall. it gives you a siege of Shenyang for free, and bonus siege. and since it does take a while to do that you can also increase favors with Ming and ask for cores when you are Manchu.
I read the title as "before you Fist Ming"
Lmao
I mean that’s not entirely incorrect haha
Un did you get your cores before canceling tributary
What are you doing step-province?
Korea has also 2 Jurchen Provinces
I normally take all but one province from Haixi and humiliate them in my first war. It helps build up splendor for age bonuses faster and boosts your PP up quicker to get it pat the 50pp threshold for more monarch points. Just make sure you don’t give them a needed province to form Manchu.
Strange request maybe but I'd like to see a Münster guide into westphalia!
These videos are great id become member if i had cash.
you mention spawning the renaissance in your capital. is that only by obtaining 30 dev in your capital province? or is there more to do?
You need to dev until the bar fills up, more than 30 probably
@@TheRedHawk good to know! Thank you
Great video! just a reminder "Jianzhou" is similar as "Jan-Jo", "Donghai" as "Don-Hai"
Love the guide red hawk as always you produce amazing content. Though i think jianzhou is pronounced like Ji-An Joe instead of how you said it.
Tbh my least favorite thing about eu4 is that theres so many dlcs
Can you form ging as ming culture convert
You can’t form Qing as Ming
Ming is an endgame tag now, so you can't for anything with them. Used to be possible, though.
@@wizardsummoner9124 thnx
@@TheRedHawk Thnx
Would love to see a guide on either Wallachia to Romania or on Gothic Invasion...tried both of these more than a handful of times and they both always manage to fail somehow.
So I read in a guide that you shouldnt raze provinces of your culture as they all turn into Manchu when you form Manchu. Is that not worth it?
Qing is mega fun to play. I have done it once and I have to repeat it.
After multiple restarts and constant frustration, I notice my playthroughs that Ming doesn’t pass reforms when they could. I’ve seen up to 90 mandate and it’s still 1450, nothing that can be done on my end because even with the unguarded frontier I don’t provide enough of a negative to decrease mandate effectively. Thoughts?
Really? I never had that issue. Unguarded frontier must definitely be enough to tank Ming's mandate. Alternatively you could expand into Japan and release So as a vassal(it's an island pirate republic) so that they raid Ming coasts and raise devastation.
8:18
A comically large horde
If you beat Haixi in Jilin then they run to Alchuka pretty much everytime.
Make ardabil guide my friend unite the persia region under the safavid banner !
Damn, found your channel a few days ago, really good stuff. Keep it up man.
Thank you! I appreciate the support!
Big question here. Ming has 14 mandate in my game and their armies still obliterate mine. When I did an Oirat run, they actually were just paper, like in the video. But for some reason in my current game, when I occupy Beijing, I don't get any event, and their armies are still largely unaffected. Obviously a few patches have come out since this video came out, but I'm still really confused as to what's happening. It seems like the Ming is resistant to low mandate as the result of a bug in the new patch or something, unless I'm crazy.
Jianzhou always has a great god general in the early to late game.
I don't have a lot of administrative points with all these regions to legitimize, the rebirth is slow to arrive so I don't know if I should spam the points in my capital to make it arrive ...
Korea has two provinces in the north that have jurchen culture I'm pretty sure. You get an event for Korea to become your tributary when you form Manchu, don’t. They will ally Ming and be up your rear during every war and will not become your tributary diplomatically after the war in my experience. I usually attack them once before my Ming wars then use them as truce reset three or four times while I annex them, and try to prevent the Japanese from making landfall.
Please do Oirat!! Maybe it's easy country but I don't get it
Will do!
Swear I heard “and then take all their money” in my dreams last night
In my game as manchu, ming and corea attack me so hard, then ming explode and form a big strong shun, i can recover some territories from korea but shun again conquer me, F
I actually have to disagree with the start of this video already. I've done several Jianzhou runs, and there is 0 risk of a coalition, there are no countries that could join it other than Korchin. In my last Jianzhou to Manchu run I conquered all the Jurchen provinces in 2 wars:
First War: full annex Udege at the start of the game, they are isolated in the center of manchuria and won't find any good allies (or usually any) by the time you can declare on them
Second War: Fought one of the other Jurchens and abused alliances (i declared on Haixi, and co-belligerented Donghai and ended up fighting them, Yeren, and Korchin)
Truce times are a big issue if you don't just rush it, especially once someone in japan starts consolidating power and rivals you.
Plus, once you do that, assuming you allied Solon, Yeren, or Nivkh, you can abuse the "return core" favor action on your "allies" in order to get most of their land, and then easily diplo-vassalize them. One run where i waited too long to take the mandate, i used Solon to eat up Mongolian provinces so i didn't have to core them.
Once you finish up with Manchuria, your next war is against korea (they never get alliances).
And then you go after Oirat, as by that point you are on-par, or likely stronger than them.
Is it easy to smash Ming in base game? Without dlc
Not as easy as with the Mandate of Heaven DLC
There is this one way to become qing while avoid getting the heaven mandate and crisis system: instead of going all the way to destroy ming. try to push west to get as much Mongolian land as possible and make Mongol your primary culture (by unstating the manchurian culture states and stating mongolian culture states).
Then upgrade the government to autocracy using reform and go destroy ming. Once ming is destroyed for whatever reason you can become qing and not get the emperor/mandate system. Another good thing is that if you keep mongol as your primary culture you will get a mission tree which basically gives you all the claims to middle and western asian land. Combining with the qing mission tree the game experience is just awesommmmmme.
great vid as always thank you!
how about arabian region?
all the gifted subs and boosters and youtube tier 3 subs just for you to say you like mandate of heaven :( can’t believe this hawk
I’ve failed you…
Actually if you plan to form Qing, it's likely better to not take Manchu ideas. They're generally better than Jianzhou's. but, the traditions for Jianzhou are better, and you can form Qing so early that you won't get to the point where Manchu ideas are better. You also didn't even mention the mission to get permanent claims over Korchin's land. Which do make it 25% cheaper to core. So there is a value in waiting to attack them. Not that you have to. Just taking the land earlier can be better, but I think there's a lot of things you missed here.
And you didn't even mention that you can just get Ming to break the tributary status to not lose stability.
How come you didn't take Horde Government ideas in this?
I feel like they aren’t that relevant for when we form Qing
Since he is taking the mandate it’s not worth, if you’re not taking the mandate it’s worth. IMO at least
Do you use some mods?My game looks different and i want it to look like yours.Stuff like font and map look different than mine.
I imagine it's either that, in game settings, or dlc
how did you manage to separate peace donghai? I occupied their whole provinces and was in the similar situation you were and they didn't accept my peace...
I'm going to make Ming implode in 1444 with this guide
Go for it!
Yeah, start is quite harder when you can't raze due to it being DLC content...
much better audio quality :)
I just did this and got completely stomped by 120k ming army with 100k Reserve … the low Mandate didnt counter that and the desaster took too long
What’s the point of royal marrying them?
Here's a bit of a "cheat" way to play Qing.
Step 1: take Horde Ideas as first ideas. You're going to have full Banners so you don't really need the manpower anyway.
Step 2: Don't take mandate, it will lock your T1 reform.
Step 3: Become Qing.
Step 4: Change religion back to Tengri.
Step 5: Reform into a theocracy.
Step 6: ???
Step 7: 100% Cav to Inf ratio and at least 40% Cav Combat Ability as you get the last Theocratic reform "All Under Tengri".
Bonus Step: Culture change all of China to Manchu, you only get banners from states so if you don't TC outside of China Culture Convert there too.
I have a situation that I would like y’all‘s input on. So I am doing a Manchu/ jianzhou game. At this Time I’ve taken all of the Manchu region. The only countries around me are Korea Mongolia Ming and oirat and I have an alliance with oirat. Mean hasn’t even passed its first reform for the empire but it has 80 empire points. Oirat Call me into a war with Ming and I excepted and beat Ming up but they still have high empire points. I also activated the quest to give me a really good General. I gained all of Ming‘s provinces up to Beijing. Should I continue to try and milk China by attacking Korea or hold off until they pass their first reform.
Start as Jianzhou, become tributary, eat Haixi, attack Korchin and take all the pronvinces that border Mongólia, eat the other Manchu tribes until you have the provinces to form Manchu.
Now look at Ming, If they have passed the first reform and they mandate is low, then form Manchu, make Tengri the sincretic faith, recruit Max cavalary banners, make an army of at least 20k cav and 10k inf and fight only in flat terrain. Take all your cores from Ming except the core of shengzou, the pronvince that have one fort because it will be an enclave and the rebels will take it for you. Take Beijing and max gold and War reparations.
Now expand into Korea, Mongolia and the far west, raze they pronvinces, make trade companies and temporary states to prevent corruption growth, make Korean an accepted culture and make full states in the region. Make a proper fleet and do the same with Japan. You can look at some small Tibetan contries and vassalize the one with more cores to reconquest, do it and after one or two Wars you will have the control of Tibet area.
It's important to establish control over the far west as soon as possible, to prevent the Timurids or some Horde countries to take Control of the region and then become a rival in your west frontier. And more important, you should prevent the Russian expansion in the region. You can let Siberia to then, but don't let then take the Tartary tribes or the Kazan gold mine.
Back to Ming, It should implod after the second War, 0 mandate and banckrupt. Let It happen and declare on each chinese minor to eat the entire China region fast, but give priority to money in the peace treaties. Don't raze the Chinese provinces or spend diplo points to make they culture aceepted, because they will be your core culture and states when you become a Empire.
Your true enemies are the corruption, inflation and the economic balance. The cav troops are too spence for the early game, but necessary for the horde War effort, so always demand money in the peace treaties to mantein your army and fight corruption. You can use the Gold mines too, to fortify your economy. To fight inflation buy the inflation reducion adm and use the economic ideas, because the adm points will be spended in the core process.
When you destroy your potential enemies and conquer all China so you can form Qing for the more missions ir just keep being Manchu and eat the entire Ásia.
This is very much a step one: attack Ming when their mandate is low, step three: profit! type of guide.
But step two…
I went after Ming the other day. I had 40k (50% cav, 50% inf). They had less than 20 mandate.
They also had about 110k well drilled troops, in 30k stacks. They dogpiled my 40k on the steppe. I had no chance and lost half my army. Next thing, they have taken Jilin and I am tributary again…
can you show us your map modes please in one of your video
Dont rm ming...when they are above 90 mandate, just stop paying tribute, they will cancel tributary status... best time to ⁸crush ming is before mil tech 6...if not than wait for the ming crisis...it is in age of reformation...
Shouldn't you not raze the Jurchen provinces since their development directly affects the amount of banners you can raise? You're not really short of monarch points that early and you can pay your debts from the loyal Bank of Ming in a couple decades.
you can easy bypass the oirat aliances by allying them calling them with favors to the war and then eat there allies bevor peacing out
19:59 -100 social credit score
It says Ming has 57k troops when you are declaring war, but in my game, Ming has 150k with 30k mercs in 1470's? How is that even possible? I kill everything around me, including Oirat and Korea and have about 40k troops so I tried to focus on his army with his Emperor, but only that army alone is 30k.. Man sometimes I feel like this game becomes more unplayable every patch
I remember that there was a gold mine and playing this region was easy, too bad they nerfed that
Level 3 fort but the AI sieges it faster than you siege their level 1 fort XD
Is Leviathan worth it? Is it fixed or still full of bugs?
Fixed!
It was fixed about 10 days in.
I want a Swabia guide :)
Could've just reduce your relations with Ming by insulting them every now and then and they themselves will cancel your tributary status, saving precious stability points and ADM points
the most powerful is korchin
I want Punjab or Marathas next.
nice
Thanks!
Be me:
Plays as Ming, takes Manchu nations. Culture switch to them. Form Manchu easy.
+30 social credit
Unpopular opinion, but Manchu->>>>>>>>>>>>>Qing. Yes it’s hard to maintain hord unity, but hord mechanics and boosts its giving you are overshadowing the negative effects. Also you can easily change your religion to hindu or shinto later on which gives you huge boosts for army, cus your tech and armyes that it will give you are garbage. So no, kids, don’t take mandate and never form Qing. But for me, the best horde is Oirat, wus it the easyest way to form Yuan with it’s insane national ideas and later on mongol empire with the best government reform.
Also about tech and armyes it’s like overall Western>anatolian>muslim>eastern>indian/horde>african>native>china.