This Machine Powered the Roman Empire!
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- Опубликовано: 23 ноя 2023
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In this video I explore the ancient origin of the treadmill by recreating the treadwheel, a source of powering various devices by humans since antiquity.
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I'm seeing a lot of comments talking about how we should have built it larger so we could stand under the axle. To clarify, having the axle at shoulder length is accurate, to both historical imagery and professionally done recreations. It is hard to translate the size of this wheel through the video, but Andy wasn't kidding when he said it could have actually injured us badly, the weight of the wood alone was over 1000 Lbs.
Things like this are definitely scary... and if the examples all have the center bar at that height, there is probably a reason....
Was there no way to have an axle on each side so to speak so as to have free space in the middle?
Thinking about the project further, a higher gear ratio coming out of the wheel would improve things dramatically, both for speed of hammering and other projects, it would also provide some resistance against the walking so as to prevent the wheel moving to fast
I would consider making at least hand holds on the inside of the wheel from an outside jacket to hold onto. That way when you are walking you aren't trying to grab at a moving square but something stationary yet attached
Was there any consideration for doing the external walking wheel instead of the internal?
Also might be a good idea to add some padding around the axil for safety.
For safety, I would add some sort of netting to avoid being able to stick your arms past the wheel itself. There were a few times you guys went to grab onto the supports but almost missed. Getting an arm caught between the crosses and supports will 100% break it.
But also, you need a braking system. A lever a 2nd person could slowly pull to push a block of wood against the wheel to slow it down and stop it for the person inside. Perhaps make it to where it can also lock so you can get in and out without it spinning
Not only will it break an arm, it'll take it off. At my own 15th birthday, my best friend lost a finger by the leverage of a door (a cheap, light indoor bedroom door) and the door frame.
@@horisontialsame principal as scissors, or _shears..!_ ahhhh!
This is all I could see when they were grabbing for the sides. They’ve built an arm guillotine.
I think that if you put a bigger load on it (something that needs a high torque), the problem of the bar being in the way wont matter as much because the person will automatically walk to the front to a steeper part of the wheel to create the needed torque
exactly that. and with lower weight you just gotta make smaller steps
Yeah, that torque would also help with efficiency, I think. If the person is further forward, their tread will automatically become one more efficient for going uphill, which will also be more efficient for moving the wheel.
Came to the comments to say this, haha.
You could avoid needing the axle entirely if you sat the human wheel on 2 sets of smaller wheels beneath it and draw the rotational energy from those which also acts as a gearbox. If you were worried about the wheels slipping you could even add teath and turn the whole thing into a giant gear. Obviously can add more sources of friction and therefore make it harder to turn but you can stand in the dead center of it.
@@GoldMike_ True, but as soon as there's any real load on the treadmill, you'll be walking forward of center anyways, so there's not really much benefit to building it that way unless you just want to use the treadmill for exercise. The walking alone isn't really what generates the force to turn the wheel under load; your body weight does most of the work simply by being in front of the axis of rotation. The closer you are to the axis, the less leverage you're able to exert on the wheel, so when more leverage is required to turn the wheel, walking in the middle becomes impossible, or at the very least painfully slow and inefficient.
For the auto hammer I have 2 suggestions if you want to use it. First is to make it a double or triple hit per rotation given the speed of the wheel using either pullies as gearing, or by changing the shape of the cam to be a double lobe design. The second is to use a much heavier hammer with a longer handle so that you'll have a harder hit so that it'll be more useful.
Stole my Idea
There's a video on RUclips, by someone called Chateau Du Clos Luce, that shows a brief animation of Leonardo's hammer design. It uses a bent shaft with a fulcrum that looks like it would be a decent improvement.
A few possible suggestions for the design: if you round the center of the axle and polish it, you could allow the person inside to lean against it in relative safety; it would likely be a good idea to make sure the axles are well lubricated (starting with beeswax and moving on to other lubricating agents you have available would be a good idea), and you could possibly even protect the axle or the axle frame using some sheets of polished copper to act as a buffer.
Alternatively, just make like it's the 1500s and utilize the children - they get a place to run all their energy out, and you get some degree of power from it!
Dr Stones Vaccuumpump, can this youtuber or any of his fans tell me about it? I felel like i have bad grasp on it. Same for the Waterwheel
Have a look at the videos on how they built Guedelon castle in France where they used only medieval tools and techniques. They used a treadmill as a crane for lifting masonry. The BBC had a series called secrets of the castle
At Guedelon the treads are angled to act more like stairs.
This has a double effect of creating more torque at low speed, while moving the operator forward of the axle.
the quality of your projects has really improved recently. this looks like something that could be placed in guedelon castle and would fit in perfectly
I guarantee that was a direct inspiration.
I think you need to look at using gears to multiply the force because right now the wheel spins too freely and generates very little useful motion. Maybe a small gear using the outside of the wheel for sprogs instead of the central beam will spin faster while central beam gives more torque due to leverage from the distance to the wheel.
A handy tip when walking in it: To avoid becoming dizzy, focus on a stationary object outside the wheel, rather than looking at the wheel itself.
12:49
Dr Stones Vaccuumpump, can this youtuber or any of his fans tell me about it? I felel like i have bad grasp on it.
Same for the Waterwheel
I was going to suggest seeing if adding a half board width gap between walking boards would help with that, say 1"-2" gap if using 2x4s
At Guedelon castle (experimental archeology build site, France), the treads are angled to act more like stairs.
This has a double effect of creating more torque at low speed, while moving the operator forward of the axle.
Hilarious how it went from torturous labour instrument to "fitness fun' almost overnight. 👍😆
It's not fitness fun. It's still tortuous labor, just that people are subjecting themselves to that willingly nowadays >:P
@@LordDragox412 Sure, but did you see how happy those women in the photo were? Just seconds after the prisoner pics.
Hilarious contrast! 😅
And here we have the invention of psychology
@@custos3249 The psychology of marketing. 😎
@@LordDragox412you've clearly never met a runner.
For the nausea, might help if you create slots between the slats though these would need wooden grates to see through yet walk on.
I was thinking that, or somehow hang something in front of the person to focus on (VR headset? Head mounted phone?), or glasses with blinders just for the wheel.
Historically, blind people were hired to run on the tread wheel.
Whoa I never thought about the fact that "treadmill" has the word mill in it. For a reason
The gopro moving with the treadwheel did a great job replicating the dizziness you're feeling when you're on the wheel... That completely broke my brain.
I think a lot of the problems you're experiencing can be solved by
A. making someone else go in it, offloading the discomfort
B. make kids use it because of the bar at your chest height
And in the next episode we will be diving into slavery and child labour
Or get a goat.
I bloody love this guys videos, if not for the actual designs, but the unique perspective it gives me on the old world.
There's this one castle project in Framce, where they actually built a whole crane to lift up the stones. It looks quite similar, only the walkway has like 1/2- 1 inch spacing between the boards, maybe so you can look through it and focus on something through them to not get dizzy, maybe to save weight
Castle Guedelon..thanks for the reminder. I bet they've gotten a lot done in the last couple years.
@@crowznest438I think they’re wrapping up no? I was told it was due to finish this year.
There will be a lot of interior work to do, I think. Such an interesting project, like building a tall ship by hand.@@ThomasFFoolery8383
For those interested in it, there actually a gargantuan version of this that was created for the castle being built in France using entirely medieval methods. It was featured in the series Secrets of the Castle and used to move stone as an early form of crane (as mentioned in this one.) There was also a water powered grain mill that illustrated further the difficulty in actually building them.
Put a loose sleeve over the central beam that slides loosely over the beam as it rotates (like a bearing housing) and gives you something to hold on to as you walk in the wheel.
Please consider making a sort of rope-netting "platform" hanging by rope from two circular cuts in the wood like the ones for the axle, so the human can rest their chest onto the netting, and maybe even hang on it waiting for the treadwheel to stop spinning. That way, it will be less difficult to stay on it (because the center axle won't be in the way anymore), and it would be safer if you can't keep up with it.
I would suggest lubricating the axel with rendered beef or pork fat, .also cross pins in the axel will keep the wheel from "walking" side to side. I also suggest some leather or wooden washers to hold the lubricating fat in place. Interesting project though.
2 suggestions: friction break for safety and bicycle for fun.
When constructing castles and cathedrals they'd put the hamster wheels at the top to help haul the heavy stones up, and then they'd get blind people to run them because they didn't get vertigo or nauseous.
That looks scary as hell if you trip and your arm stick out it for sure breaks on the side bar.
It needs one thing to make it comfy. You know the walking supports that elderly use? The four legged ones? Put wheels on that. Then you can support your weight on it and walk up the wheel with it, you may even run as long as the walking support doesnt stray off the path
The trick is to put so much load onto the system, that it stops when you are standing forward of the axle and only moves when you walk up the slope. The trebuchet picture shows a nice design; its inner surface is a ladder, which allows you to "climb" inside with your hands and feet, giving you more stability.
Time team (BBC archeology show) said once that treadwheels cranes were powere by blind people because they were not prone to getting dizzy. Removing every second plank would also let you see through the wheel and reduce it's weight.
this power hammer cam wheel needs another hook. instantly double hit frequency for free-ish.
Needs 3 or 4 cams. The size of a human wheel means you have immense torque, and normally for a triphammer would gear it either triangularly or with a cross shape.
At Guédelon they use a treadmill like this.
I love seeing the progression of technology and your own skills. Its so awesome
I think it's possible to remove the main axle from the inside of the wheel, and replace it with what's basically a fixed bar for holding onto, to make it much safer. without a good support, if the "worker" gets ahead of the centre, they'll reach for a support to stop themselves falling, and that's basically asking for a broken (or worse) arm as it gets closer to the supports.
as the load increases on it, you'll have to work harder, so it'll be more difficult to get "ahead" of the load.
another thing, if you can make some type of spring, either some type of coiled steel, or leather, or something like that, you can increase the hammering blow. you can also increase the ratio, so it gets more rotations per second, which will increase the load on the wheel, but it won't be by much.
10:52 strangely makes me wish I was on a treadmill.
Can’t wait for the pyramid building video 😂 gotta make that the minnesotan bass pro shop landmark
1) round off the centre of the axel so it doesn't mess up your back when you hit it
2) put load on so you have to lean into it more
3) harness the power of a couple of kids instead of one adult
what i would suggest is to either round the whole axle and add a second hollow piece of wood over it. almost like a tube. it can have handles to hold onto (person being in the back of the axle) or just make the tube square and the handle not moving around the axle freely.i mean doing this isn't really that important but for easier balancing and maybe higher speeds why not
A spinning wood on wood bearing like that would have a lot of friction, if it grabs then the handle could hit the operator and be dangerous
well i guess its gonna have to be non moving. i thought of making the whole axle not spin and just the tips spin by putting some bearings over them. like on the part of the square thats fixed to the wheel. i mean yea it might be a bit difficult to do that since the axel would kinda still be free spinning but you can fix it in place with something like making a hole in one or both of the ends and putting a long piece of wood or metal through it that gets hammered into the ground. sometimes i overthink stuff and this might be one of those times.
in the future, for flatbelts, use convex rounded pulleys without flanges. on a pulley with flanges, the belt will have a tendency to climb up the flanges, but with a convex rounded pulley, the belt tends to climb up the round towards the center. this is why when you see stationary engines hooked up with flat belts, the pulleys always seem flat with no flanges, and it seems confusing how the belt can stay on them, but their pulleys are actually slightly convexly rounded to keep the belts on
Love this video the building montages are sooo well done!
To create even less friction in the pivot joint, i think an oily wood would help. I know this is partly the reason Lignum Vitae was used as submarine bearings, but that's a very expensive wood
Dutch windmills used it too
2 Improvements to this setup:
Notch-blocks like Mountain climber nubs, this gives you something to step up onto on the climb to push down with your weight ; but also allows you to hold the central beam and push them further back while still going forward and not running backwards.
Also, Pulley attachment on the belt-wheel. If the belt pulled to an equal dimension Circle the wheel has, off of the Wheel side. Have it have a center holding beam on legs too, but also beam can be used as a small cog spinning with the larger diameter. Connect the WHEEL belt to the Small cog of this new Pully belt attachment, and the large attached to the Hammer cam.
This seems like something that would knock your head off, after someone calls your name and you turn your head too much toward the spokes
You should add a handle bar that attaches to the two A frames that hold it up.
Very creative and well executed!
Round and smooth the axle so you would be able to lean against it and keep your footing.
Another thing is you don’t necessarily need to have the axle all the way through. Add another layer to the cross boards and supports should give it enough strength to stand without the axle going through the middle. Think of it like a wagon wheel, they have no external support on the axle on the outer side of the wheel. Split the axle in half and round off a majority of it. Double up the thickness of the support post and pin the axle on either side to prevent lateral movement. Do the same at the wheel end of the axle. Repeat on the other side and you won’t need the shaft to go completely across. This will make it much easier to walk on since you won’t be hunched over trying to avoid the axle attempting to clock you in the back of the head from the 4 corners.
As previously stated even just rounding the axle completely in the middle where you stand and making it nice and smooth and maybe polish it with something so you can rest your shoulders against it would make a massive difference in your ability and comfort when using it.
Sure the height might be period correct but average human height back then for males was 5’7 not 6 foot plus.
Also make a stop for it to get on and off the thing.
Awesome! Pro tip for next time- just cut the 15 degree angle first, then you already have one 15 degree cut on your next board, also you can end up saving a little board length that way. You would only have to make about 1/3 the number of cuts. Cheers
Dr Stones Vaccuumpump, can this youtuber or any of his fans tell me about it? I feel like i have bad grasp on it. Same for the Waterwheel
If the wheel causes dizziness, I'd suggest using a cog system to be able to a) produce more work with each step, but, specially, make it harder to move, so it doesn't go too fast.
Also, grabbing the beams for support looked like a big no-no. Maybe a smaller wheel with handles on those beams would make it easier for you to maintain your equilibrium while at the same time being able to use your hands to push as well.
The center axel really is not needed of the short axels are solid
The center support should have been more of a T shape on each outer wall bracing against the existing circle so that it doesn't run all the way through the center. Like a T shape with the long part being the part that connects to the support stand.
awesome build! If you added grooves on the axle, you could add a handle that slides around as you walk allowing you to hold on and kinesthetically sense where the axle is and thus allow you to close your eyes and avoid much of that nausea feeling. the better answer being that the axle should be 8 feet above the walking surface, allowing full walking clearance, but this does make for a very large wheel.
You could use the tread wheel as a sort of fly wheel if you put weight along the inside edges and put handles to pull it downwards on the outside, running inside it seems a bit tough lol. Also you could put a harmless on the inside hanging from the cross beam to keep you from falling
With that GoPro shot where it spins with the wheel, you could composite that with footage of the scenery being "still" while you seemingly defy gravity
Would it be possible to rig up some sort of harness to the center axel. Would need to round off an attachment point so it won't spin with the wheel. Then hook into it and just use leg power.
All I could think about was someone slipping and getting their leg caught between the supports and it snapping their leg like it was stick.
There were saftey tolerances built into it
It is so cool ! I think that the one they made at the Guedelon castle has got a brake that is controled by someone outside the wheel... I think you should get that...
I'd put a crossbar on a rotating mount on the axle so you'd got something to lean on. Adjustable, of course. And you can put your drink on it, so you don't have to stop to hydrate. Another one is to make it big enough that you're under the axle rather than in front of it.
Could you round the center beam and put a cloth sleeve on it, so that you can grab on to it while the Wheel is Spinning?
this is why water powered mills often were build beside a river that has been modified to create a bit of a pond, and a steeper incline for flow near the wheel.
You could probably create a harness that revolves around the center beam to help with stability while running.
Did lauren left? Man she was a charming and fun person have around.
ah thank you, this made me smile. I got a full time job so I havent had the time to help out anymore- but I really miss it!
Cutting off the corners off the wheel will make the wheel lighter inturn making it easier to turn and if you use a diamond shape for the axle holes you low the contact area even more
In Germany, they used dog driven wheels back then, you can see a functioning model in some museum. They were used to empower butter processing machines for example.
11:10 loved the camera angle
get a heavier sledge because you're are not using the full potential of the wheel with that small one. it's basically a gravity driver which means the heavier the hammer the more force it will impart to the metal. Also the center of the wheel could be rounded if anything just to make it a little more comfortable to the user. you COULD even remove the center wheel entirely if you connected both sides from the outside but then you'd have to redo most of the design.
If you don't want to increase the size of the wheel for safety and historical reasons, could you make the center axle free-spinning and graspable without sacrificing structural stability? That way y'all could grab it and turn it into a stabilizer instead of a hazard?
One thing I don't know if you utilized, but if you increase the load on the wheel, giving it more resistance, will change where your body stands in the machine, because it increases the incline required to move the other thing. Increase the gear ratio with the power hammer/add more hammers to the system.
The timer in the corner makes me _so much more_ willing to sit through an ad.
I know it would be difficult, but I think it might work better to make it so it is supported on one side only so that you can have a stationary handle sticking in from the other side to hold on to. Then the axle wouldn't be in the way either. I know it wouldn't be historically accurate, but it might be safer and more useful.
So the medieval versions seen on trebuchets (I got to power one at Warwick castle, UK). Have open spaces between the slats so you can see the horizon when moving.
I’m sure you’ve already seen it but this reminds me a lot of the treadmill Crain demonstrated in Tom Scott’s video from a year ago. The point of the videos are very different but you might be able to use some of the same things they explain to help troubleshoot your difficulties
The center bar seems like a real headache, but I'm hoping it'll become less of a problem once the torque of the wheel faces resistance so you can walk further up the wheel
Excellent joinery!
If the axel doesn't need to go all the way through the wheel, instead just connecting to the frame of the wheel, you could cut out the center and put a rod through that can freely rotate, giving you something to hold on to while you work the wheel, closing your eyes to help with the dizziness.
I think the spokes connecting the center of the wheel to the drum would need to be way reinforced to provide enough stability so idk if that would be realistic. That said, just rounding out some regions of the existing axle might help enough to be able to lean against it
I wonder how a ratchet mechanism to prevent it rotating backwards would affect the experience of using it?
You’d need a heavy duty one or it might break itself if there’s enough momentum. The wheel would be a giant flywheel storing that energy
used to have wheels like this in my local park. Didn't have axle in middle but rollers underneath supporting the wheel. got good enough I could run the wheel while every one else got dizzy or sick. trick is run with eyes closed at constant speed. hope this helps. love your vids keep up the great content
It's shown on the trebuchet pictures you had but doing a wheel with cross bars instead of a flat walking surface allows it to be used similar to climbing a ladder that would alleviate the center axle just be hard on your back.
double that Da Vinci automatic hammer gear and it should go smack, smack, smack instead of smack, wait, smack.
Funny you should mention dog-powered wheels. There is an extinct breed of dog called the turnspit dog or vernepator cur that was used throughout Elizabethan England to power roasting spits, especially in large kitchens.
The twist in the drive belt is drivin' me nuts.
I think you need a gearbox to get more rotations out of it, depending on your application. Changes to the whole drive train, really.
Making the center of the axle round and smooth, with a possible sheath to hold on to, or lean back against, might improve walking in it.
Otherwise, this could be the cardio that's easier on the back, that also gets your logs cut to planks while ya do it.
putting a harness on the axle to help hold the person will help keep it running consistently
Props for doing some solid timberframing. Don't even want to imagine the budget for all the cut nails y'all used, they're not cheap!
You might be able to make a cover for the axle and a “bed” for the hamster to rest against so it’s only their legs that move.
Just a heads up, a good idea would probably be wearing a helmet while in the wheel. That axel at head height is just asking for a concussion.
Great video dude!
There's actually a project being done by experimental archeologists who are building a medieval castle in France and they use a human-powered crane using the treadmill. You could ask them what they've found in their process
it is still a very applicable prototype if you add huge ball bearings on the sides
Cool device and thanks for the video, but please move it more to the centre so that you don't pinch your fingers off. It looks really tight in the video.
Find a way to freehang on the inside of the wheel, or round the middle of the axis to put a free-spinning arm+chest rest
Or run on the outside top of the wheel with + hand bars
And to avoid motion sickness maybe obscure one’s vision
I think adding a bar to hold onto would make it a lot easier to use
The hamster costume - 11/10. Excellent.
Dr Stones Vaccuumpump, can this youtuber or
his fans tell me about it? I feel like i have bad grasp on it. Same for the Waterwheel
Try doing the other way, like the old Egyptian treadmill shaduf, where the person is standing on the wheel and turning it by using steps. The old illustrations that you showed of prisoners being forced to walk the treadmill, that's more in line with what I'm suggesting. I saw a documentary about twenty years ago where some Peace Corps people were building them in Africa to help them with irrigation.
Using one to function as a crane, that's going to take some heavy timbers, not anything you're going to find at Home Depot.
Excellent editing.
The models I've seen before didn't have a shaft through the middle, just shafts poking out from the sides.
Probably one of the nicest builds you guys have ever done. Good work!
I kind of wish you were able to hook this up to a generator just to see how much wattage etc. you could pump out of it.
I understand you want to work from ancient times back up, but for the sake of information this would have been a useful test.
nice
Walking the treadwheel was a good job for a blind man.
Either use a longer "handle" on the trip hammer or gear the camshaft drive to get more hits per minute.
It would be cool to see experimenting with the wheel connected to the power hammer with a drive belt (maybe leather?) to increase the turn ratio.
I've wanted to build one for years, I saw one at a budapest playground and couldn't resist joining my 5 year old cousin in running in it
Can you put something on the axis that spinns? Like a tube so one can hold on to that while going forward?
I'm pretty sure that the problem of the tread-wheel "getting away from you" and spinning too fast would go away as soon as it's hooked up to do some sort of work, having some real resistance, rather than basically free-wheeling, as it is now.
Interesting and reminds me of the undershot water wheels that were installed on like barges and tethered to the shore line of canals or rivers. These would be used as prime movers in Europe and I believe finding years back info on use in channels and rivers in the Colonial east coast of the U.S.. I came across when researching the hydro methods and collecting waste in rivers since seemed like an interesting power station or prime mover for like the conveyer belts to pickup trash. Possibly other uses in rivers like mining or other irrigation with like spiral tubes or other wheels to lift the water.
That looks rough being so small diameter and that center axle shaft in the way like noted. Otherwise, looks awesome and I can only imagine the range of mechanical devices used to erect or make things. Guessing there are YT videos detailing the range of cranes and related excavating and other equipment. Looking forward to seeing your designs and apps. Thanks for sharing and have a good one!