CCI Small Rifle Primer Comparison (CCI 400 VS CCI 450 VS CCI BR-4)
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- Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2024
- CCI primers are known for their extreme quality and continued performance, this might be the exact reason why they have become increasingly more difficult to find. If you agree with this statement you most probably do a little bit of reloading yourself!
Have you ever wondered if you could shoot different CCI small rifle primers and expect the same results?
Are you reloading to increase your accuracy?
I have decided to see if it is at all possible to change primers and have the same results.
I have taken my #howa 223 and 6.5 #Creedmoor and taken the 3 various CCI Small Rifle Primers namely the CCI400, CCI450 Magnum and CCI BR-4 to compare them.
If you are a hunter or a long range shooter this video will give you clarity with regards to the questions above. The results speak for themselves with one twist on the 223. I will however revisit the 223 to see if the mistake in speeds was due to my reloading skills. Sit back and enjoy this video and if you find it interesting please subscribe to my channel and give this video a like.
#cci #cciprimer #cci400 #cci450 #cci450magnum #ccibr-4 #ccibr4 #Rifle #longrangeshooting #hunting #huntingsouthafrica #reloading #reloadingtips
Very impressive presentation 👍
Thanx Chris
Just a comment from my side. Nice video and informative. There is one thing that I noticed, that you have not mentioned in your video and is of high importance. The main reason for magnum primers is for the proper ignition of double base propellants. All Hodghdon's propellants and Rheinmetall Somchem's S265, S335, S355, S365, S385 are single base and work fine with standard primers like CCI200, CCI400, BR2, BR4, FED210, WLRP WSRP and other standard primers. When you use double base propellants like Rheinmetall Somchem's S121, S221,S321, S341, S361, the use of magnum primers becomes significantly more important, to ignite these double base propellants. When you load more than 60gn of propellant, irrespective of it being double base or single base, it is highly preferred to use magnum primers, like the CCI250, CCI450, FED215, FED215M, WLRMP, WSRMP and other magnum primers. BR2, BR4, FED210M, FED215M and other match grade primers, fall in a far different and superior class to many other brands and manufacturer types. While cold weather plays a role in misfires and hang fires, many a time the reasons are wrong primers, primers not seated and set properly and not "enough" primer energy to ignite large volumes of double base or single base propellants. This all said, if in doubt, use a magnum primer. I have had better overall consistency with magnum primers, in 223 up to 416 REM with 15 other cartridges in between.
Thank you
great idea for a vid, and very intersting results. Thank you!
great idea for a video. couple of things stand out though in the testing (some already pointed out). the biggest issue is the very small sample size. 5 shot groups with the nature of dispersion means that results will be very inconclusive. I did the same test but with 25 shot groups on large rifle primers. Found the BR 2 was a clear winner.
next up is the barrel clean or cold on different strings. I find it takes 3 shots from an abrasive cleaned barrel to get to a steady average FPS first 3 are always slower on my heavy rifles.
Anyway well done
Thanx for the input John. I always appreciate input to see how we could have done it differently. 👌
I am in the process of loading some 6.5 grendel with 130 ELDs and wasn't sure which primer to use. This solidified my decision to go with the 450s over the 400. Thank you!
I've been loading 6.5 Grendel for several years. Put me down for the cci 450's. With the wider case dimensions. The extra flame front from the magnum primer is beneficial.
@@jongruen7854 I have finished my loads with 120gr and 130gr ELD-Ms. I'm pushing 2600fps with those mag primers 😉
thank you, this is the exact video i was looking for :)
Glad it helped!
Agree the br-4 primers have shot the best for me but with the crazydemic I could only find/stock up on 400/450. Happy shooting dude.
We have now started seeing stock again but the prices are ridiculous! I am planning a cci vs federal video to see if you can shoot federal and get the same results!
@@aimsmallmisssmall264 crazy how everything around the world is super expensive. Like all the elites are screwing the working ppl!!! Ooh well. Least we have primers lol. I went to order 308 bullets and they want like $30 shipping. Ugh. Can't win for losing. I've tried federal small rifle primers once. They were really soft. My lee press manual says not to use em but I did anyway. Who knows. We shall see
Using 450 in my 24 inch Howa. SD of 3 and SD of 11. 139gr Scenar. 42gr H4350, 3000th of the jam using lapua
Thats a good SD. Well done!
I have seen many simular tests done and although interesting to watch this is somewhat misleading. The results you show supports this since you are showing the best primer for the load you have chosen and not necessarily the best primer.
Do a proper load work-up with all 3 primers, pick the best loads, and then compare them. In a world where time and components are expesive this is never the option taken.
Then there is also the issue of cratering of primers and pierced primers. The Br4 and CCI450 have thicker cup material and withstand pierced primers, that is common, better.
Thanks for the effort, it is always good to test our equipment and know what you are dealing with ;)
Very informative about why cci makes 3 different small rifle primers but my reloading manual calls for a large rifle primers in a 6.5 creedmore
Thanx Tim!
Lapua brass (along with other brands now) offer a small primer pocket version of 6.5 creed.
Which I'm assuming is why you are confused on the small primer part.
Very informative.
Was pondering which primer to use in my 45/70 Buffalo Bore cases.
I think You should provide a video for Your findings in these larger cases,,and the best propellant for them.
Thank You So Much, for Your making this available.
With Best Wishes.
Hi Phil thank you for the feedback. I am in the process of doing a video with regards to primer comparison (cci vs Federal) as well as a video on large primers with a comparison video between primers.
Will use BR4 from now - need every bit of help
Great job,very informative.
Thanx!
I was told by a CCI tech that all small rifle primers (minus the 450) are manufactured as the BR4. After testing from different lots then if they don't measure up to BR4 standards they are then put into the 400 bin. The 450 has a hotter flame as for both colder temps and to help ignition of most ball powders.
Thanx, intresting too hear that, maybe that is what they mean when saying tighter tolerances. Which one do you use?
@@aimsmallmisssmall264 I use the 400 SR in my 6ARC with varget, the 450 SRM and 200 LR in my 6.5CM loads with H4350. I find that they work just fine out to 1000-1200 yards. I have about 5000 each of BR4 and BR2 as spares. I got them years ago when they were $150/5000.
If they separate types after testing, how do they remove the engraved letter "B" designation from the primer cup if they're all "manufactured as the BR4"? In addition, the BR-4s have a different anvil than the 400s. Somebody's been pullin' yer leg, @gorillamotors.
Great info that i think most of the people didn't expect to see especially on small cases.
What was the temperature during your shooting?
Since the 450 is more adaptable to cold weather do you think there will be a different result when testing the same rounds during winter instead of summer? (if all primers fire as they should)
Hi Louis.
Good question.
I might have to do a test in the winter to see if there are any noticable differences.
As for the temperatures I might be able to pull it of GRT as a theoretical value as I am I'm not equipped to run those tests just yet.
I hope that help
My question is, are you using the same powder and same grains in each primer test? Or are you using less powder with the 450's than you are with the 400's? If the 450 is hotter wouldn't that make it neccessary to use a bit less powder or is that not an issue? Very curious since I don't have any 400's but loads of 450's. Thank you in advance for your response. Great video and I'm really happy I found it. Thank you.
Hi I used exactly the same powder and the same grain. The reason for this was so see if the 450 is hotter that the other primers as people suggest they are. I didnt find that is gives any pressure signs or any significant increase in speed. On the 223 I found that the burn rate was more consistent giving a more constant speed.
Thanks for watching and I am glad you like it!
@@aimsmallmisssmall264 Yes I did indeed enjoy your video. It answered a question I've had for a long time. And thank you for such a rapid response, it helped me make a decision and now I can proceed with loading another batch of ammunition. Keep up the great work and again, thank you.
@@aimsmallmisssmall264 Well I went ahead and loaded up 400 rounds of 223 using the CCI Small Rifle Magnum primer and they are perfect. From now on that will be what I use instead of the regular Small Rifle primer. A great recipe indeed. The burn is so much better which in turn leaves less cleaning to do after a day at the range. As far as difference in velocity, not noticeable. So, all in all a great lesson learned from you and I thank you for taking the time to make your video. Looking forward to your next video. Thank you and be safe.
@@aimsmallmisssmall264 This is great. You just busted soooo much FUDD lore!
Very helpful. BR4 all the way
Thanx David!
great video, learned a lot
Thanx Doug!
Thanx for watching
I have had 10 shot groups at 100 yards with CCi 400 primers and 25.0 grs. of Accurate 2230 with Hornady 53 gr. A-Max out of my .223 REM. 700 Varmint and achieved one-hole groups. You could cover the hole with a nickel.
That's great! Well done!!!
The main objective would be to see what the speed variations will do to group size over a distance. Would be great to take your rifle and test it at 600yards and see if it has an effect
@@aimsmallmisssmall264 I imagine that would be more than I could shoot. I hunt ground hogs in Indiana and the longest shots I take are about 275 yards.
@@miniaturefarmer464 and yet you manage to hit a small target! That is all one can ask for! Well done man! Enjoy the hunting
Great video - tighter tolerances
Thanx for watching Kirk!
Did you use the same grains of powder when using the different primers. I’ve heard you should reduce the grains of powder when using the magnum primers.
Hi Richard, I left everything u changed for the test. I kept the powder the same and the speed only had a bit of a difference.
@@aimsmallmisssmall264 Thanks
Great 👍 video
Thanx
Very interesting. Can you also investigate difference between large and small. ?
Thanx for watching Jaco. Are you referring to the same caliber just with a small primer vs a large primer?
That would be hard to do, because there are not many cartridges that are available with both large and small primers in the same cartridge. I think .45 ACP and 6.5 Creedmoor but I'm not sure.
be careful with the 30-06 recharge on the LR 450 - take as a basis, the minimum weight of gunpowder.
Otherwise, with a heavy bullet, it becomes very close to 300 Winchester magnum.
Thanx for the heads up
What are you having to pay for primers in South Africa?
If you can find its around R2000/1000 which is about $135
Does anyone have any comment on velocity or pressure change between Federal 205M and CCI450?
I have a known load I like for 6.5 CM (42.5gn IMR4350, 2.840 COAL) and I can't get the Federal primers anywhere.
Wondering if I should expect to chase the node again or if it should drop in as is?
Hi Justin
I am planning to do a video about the federals with the same structure as the CCI video. It will be how CCI compares with Federal it might answer your question.
I have found a few places selling federal which help me decide to try federal and at half the price of CCI. Which area are you from?
@@aimsmallmisssmall264 I'm from Eastern Canada. Stock very hard to find right now and I recently was able to score a batch of the CCI450 after running down my 205M supply.
I use the small rifle for sm. Pistol all the time.
Does it perform better?
Hello thank you for the video please my English is not good i’am from France please i have primers small pistol sellier bellot its write 4.4 and i have small rifle sellier bellot its write 4.4 same size just color different PLEASE CAN I USE SMALL RIFLE IN 9mm or . 357 ?
J'ai entendu parler de personnes utilisant les petites amorces de pistolet dans leurs fusils, je suis sûr que cela fonctionnera bien.
@@aimsmallmisssmall264 :) very good
I just started getting into the precision rifle game and hand loading, Ive been shooting 308 but I just got a 223 to play with, I’m wondering if there’s an optimal length for the 223? I’ve got brass trimmed from 1.740-1.760 to try out but haven’t had the chance. Is it totally dependent on the individual rifle or is there a standard for accuracy?
Hi James, I have always just taken a batch of brass and trimmed them down so that the avg spread from longest to shortest is as low as possible. I have recently seen guys take new brass and check with a borescope to see what the gun wants. You basically put the borescope where the brass would sit when the bolt is closed and minimize the space between the chamber and the brass. The smart thing there is that all your brass is then cut to your gun specific length which in my opinion might actually decrease brass variations which would lead to better groups.
I got ya. I’m making a few different load’s tonight to test out tomorrow. Trying a few different powders and lengths. Seeing if I can find one this rifle likes.
Very interesting, how about the same test with Federal?
Hi Giel, yes i am in the process of doing a Federal comparison plus a cci vs federal video
Do you have a twitter? If you wouldn’t mind answering a couple questions at least. I think my reloading materials grew faster then my knowledge. I’ve only been reloading rifle rounds for about 8 months. It’s so hard to actually find answers online people aren’t arguing over.
I do have twitter!
What is the numbers Stan for
Are you referring to the number on the primers? The 400/450/BR-4? As far as I know its the identification of the primer itself.
Ive seen other tests where guys saw no significant difference.
Also..5 shots isnt even close to a big enough sample size.
But surely the 5 shots give you enough data to see that there is infact a difference?
Used BR4’s for the first time. 90% failures, maybe a bad batch but not impressed.
Hi Cameron, I havent had failures to that extent before. I have heard people say that in very cold conditions they do fail more often. Sorry to hear that you got the bad batch!
Hi @digger1900, any update on the BR4 FTF? CCI primers have a thicker and harder cup than others, especially Federal. You do have to ensure they are fully seated in the primer pocket to get them to be properly preloaded with the anvil in contact with the priming compound. These primers are closer to military spec than other versions - need to be properly seated and with a strong enough striker spring - run a heavy spring in my Barnard P actions and have no issue with any CCI primers.
Would be more concerned with the firing pin blanking the primers if not set up correctly on any small primer than a light strike as the fix for the blanking as it needs a more invasive fix than changing the striker spring.