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Changing the resonant head on my 16" floor tom completely brought it to life. Apparently 25 year old TAMA heads do not last forever. It was a total game changer.
Dude, this is so much more a helpful tuning tip video than I've been able to find anywhere else. ESPECIALLY because you actually talk about the resonant head; which is something that isn't very much talked about in other videos. Thanks so much!
Thanks, man! Yeah it's super important to get the resonant head right. It's easy to overlook it. I've found that in any tuning situation, if you're having trouble getting a drum to sound "right"...try changing up the reso tuning. That often fixes it.
Here’s a pro tip from the front lines...we’re talking the Boston, gb circuit, Berklee dweeb stuff that no one tells you. The kind of stuff that will get you more gigs. A huge majority of drummers out there tune their toms too low nowadays. Especially, ESPECIALLY if you’re in a situation with minimal micing. Low tuned drums sound amazing behind the kit. In my practice space, I keep my drums tuned nice and low because I prefer that sound in that environment. In a gigging situation, no one can hear that. The low end dies in a sea of guitars, bass and middle management douchebags trying to outdouche each other in front of you. Tune your toms a liiiiiittle higher when you’re out. At the end of the day, the most important sound is the sound 20 feet out front. If you tune your toms low like every other drummer, your tom work is going to sound like the same indistinct “papapahdodododoo” as every other drummer. A little higher and your personality will pop right through in that context. This is the best single tuning tip I ever got and it’ll help with floor tom tuning as well. Floor toms become exponentially more difficult to tune as the pitch decreases.
2 years late to this reply, but You are 100% right! I tune my toms low and I mic my kick and toms at every gig because of this. If I'm unable to mic up (Which is fairly rare) I bring all of my tunings up and drop any muffling I previously had on the toms.
Another late reply, but the slightly higher tuning and no muffling works just fine with mic’ed up toms as well. Many pro drummers, Simon Phillips, John Bonham, etc. play their toms wide open and tuned up to get resonance and tone. It’s all about mic placement and how you control the input (gain, volume, etc.) I play my toms mic’ed up with no muffling and have the toms tuned medium tight, slightly higher on the bottom. For my kit I find that with the floor toms, the interval between top and bottom is less than my mounted tom. I have a minor third difference on the 13” tom, a 1/2 step on the 16 and 18 floor toms. Most drummers I see on RUclips have their 16” floor tom top head tuned to about an A. For me, that’s too low. My drum sounds floppy and feels sluggish at that tension. I’m closer to between a B and C on top. One thing to note....if I didn’t have an 18”floor tom, I may go lower on the 16.
Yes. And this should be considered for snare tuning also in live applications. A few years back I was having fun trying out my different snares at different gigs and playing with tuning. I cranked a mapex armory metal snare I have as high as it could go before choking.. What I discovered was that all of the kick and snare parts in the grooves were more defined and heard clearly. I guess the further the pitches are from each other the more clearly they’re heard individually with no overlapping. This was something I noticed drummers playing live concerts in the early 80s. The snares were always cranked.
@@martinel2450 A version of that sound re-emerged in the 90s, too. Half of the grunge records everyone loves were recorded with a piccolo snare, squashed to hell and back with an 1176 or a fatso….why? Because it sounds great, it’s aggressive, enormous and it cuts.
For toms, I use a one-ply resonant head and a two-ply batter head, tuning the reso a perfect fifth higher than the batter (for a perfect fifth, hum the melody to "Here Comes the Bride" in any key). This means that your drum will pitch high as the reso rings out first and then drop down when your stick releases the batter. IMHO, this sounds way better than going from low to high or trying vainly to get both heads tuned to the same pitch. They never will stay at the same pitch anyway and will merely run interference with each other - kind of like a pair of air horns! Then I tune the batter of the the next tom up to match the reso of the lower drum. If you use four toms, say 10, 12, 14, 16, then the reso of the 16 will be the same pitch as the batter of the 14 and the reso of the 14 will be the same pitch as the batter of the 12 and so on. This means that the kit is in tune with itself - like a guitar - because when you hit one drum, all the other drums ring a bit too, don't they? In fact the whole kit resonates - the cymbals too! So ... Remo Emperors or Pin Stripes on top and Ambassadors on the bottom (or Evans G2s/EC2s and G1s). Nice Evans drum key BTW. I have two of those that I use for quick head changes. Not only do they have that cool knurled knob at the top, but they have little magnets inside the key so they stick onto your tuning rods. Please note: this stuff works for me and it's just my opinion that it sounds good. However, if you're having trouble with your tunings, then you may as well try it. Also, if your kit is just too ringy in the studio or your practice space, then try using Aquarian damper rings. I get a nice fat sound with them on my heads, but I take them off for live. Drums should ring - that's what carries your sound. Thanks for the videos Stephen, they are really good!
Sal Paradise Thank you for the great tip I want to try this (I’m planning on using pinstripe batters and ambassador resos for recording soon). But if I’m only using a 4-pc kit and have a 12/13 rack and a 16 floor, how should I tune them together using your method?
Man, I've been waiting for another drummer to talk about this. Great lesson. My floor tom has sucked most of my life...and these lessons are learned the long way. Thank you for the short route!
The craziest trick for floor toms that I've ever learned-and I've never heard of anyone else ever doing it-is tuning the batter a little higher than you're used to, then completely loosening one tension rod. I'm meticulous and neurotic with my tuning, and on paper, it seems like complete nonsense, but I can't tell you how many times it's saved my ass in a live situation where the sound guy just couldn't get ahold of the overtones.
Evans has these Hyrdaulic heads, It's great for players with no experience in tuning at all and are really easy to setup without much tuning. Try them out!
hi Stephen, very informative video but according to me, you forgot an important reason why a floor tom can sound bad; the legs of the tom! i m talking here about floor toms that stands on three legs, not suspended toms on a cymbal stand that usually sounds great because of their good sustain, and sustain is maybe the most important topic when we talk about a good sounding drum, without sustain, nothing possible, and of course it's possible to control the sustain the three legs of floor tom are sometimes the reason of a cruel lack of sustain, and if you lift the tom from the ground, you will find that the sustain is back, as if the ground would absorb the resonance of the drum...the reason of that could be because the gum at the end of the legs in not protecting the drum to sound and vibrate freely, or the gum isnt here anymore, or sometimes a bad conception of the drum itself thank you for your videos greetings from France
Agreed, your the only one who got it right, I have a 1964 set of Slingerlands, 14" and 16" toms always sounded like a cardboard box. I changed the minimal rubber feet (gum) to the resonator feet from my Pearl kit and 200% difference and I've never been dissatisfied since (playing 56 years)
Really? I guess it depends on what you're going for. Most of the time I'll get a rack tom sound I like pretty fast, then spend more time on the floor tom. I will say though...I prefer 13" and 16" toms on a 4-piece kit. I'm ok with a 12", but if I have one rack tom I like a 13", which I find pretty easy to tune. Do you tune higher or lower generally?
try working on your reso head. i thought there was something wrong with me but then i checked the reso head and it was tuned way too low. for toms, you want the reso and batter heads to be identical in pitch.
I struggle with getting it line with the other toms. When I was an ignorant novice, I just couldn't figure out how the drummers of my favorite bands got the amazing sounds. Then I realized that they were all using mic'd up toms using computer assisted sounds to achieve warmth. Maybe the sound you are trying to achieve isn't something that is natural. It kinda like photography. The camera does most of the work, but you still have to use Photoshop to get the ideal photo. Just food for thought.
When your favorite drummers are playing live, it is more likely that they are using gates, compressors and possibly reverb through the PA. This makes an incredible difference to the sound of your drums as heard by the audience. It's fairly common for metal drummers to use triggers on their bass drums to achieve uniformity in sound for live shows but usually only the bass drum. At the end if the day though, it still comes back to tuning. Badly tuned drums will sound rubbish no matter how good the sound tech is.
Computers didn't always exist. Drums at one time were only mic'd by a couple of boom mics hovering over the drums, if at all. Tuning to get the proper sound was all you had. The quality of the drum was extremely important. Slingerland, arguably were the best overall drums ever made. They used a wood that no one else would get because of the expense. But they made the drums, and charged more, in hopes that people would pay the premium. Slingerland is gone now, the primary reason . . . the wood was getting scarce, and the price kept going up until drummers weren't willing to pay the price, as other drums were getting better because of acoustic research getting better. But the point being, quality, and tuning were all you had.
@@DDS029 Exactly...the old-time pros had great sound because they had exceptional ears and understood their instruments...not to mention their other talents!
True. And sometimes what we hear from behind the drums isnt what is out front. A venue I play has a sound guy that always has the floor sounding like a Harley even when I feel like the tuning is not 100% that night.
Context is so important too. Often a floor tom that sounds too flappy or boomy will sound great played in context with the rest of the kit and even better with the rest of the band.
I have a vintage Slingerland 16in floor tom that I wrestled with and was never happy with, it just always sounded dead. The drum had straight legs with small rubber tips. I finally solved the problem by changing the legs and rubber tips. I switched to the Pearl floor tom legs with those big rubber tips. This completely changes the characteristics of the drum.
I just picked up a brand new sonor sq1 kit. It came with those coded ambassador's. I hated them. I put the ec2 s on the kit and it absolutely came to life. Great video brother keep them coming
I'm just talking from my experience, but I've always found single ply heads to be good for all genres of music. I've used ambassadors (among others) in a rock setting, and they worked perfectly. I think it has to do with the amount of energy you put into a drum. The thinner the head, the less you throw into it, the bigger the sound.
I have a 14” Pearl EXR floor tom with a shitty mounting system that just clamps on the hoop. I have NOT played a venue when the sound tech or some other person compliments how well my drums sound. I use a Remo Emperor Black Suede batter and an Ambassador Coated on the resonant side. Super low tuning on top and slightly higher on the bottom. I love this sound!
A couple other things you can try : 1) using a double ply head on the resonant side if you want less sustain; and 2) changing the rims/hoops to a different weight or type. For example, changing from triple flanged, light weight hoops to heavier die cast or wood hoops can cut way down on overtones and give a more focused sound.
The rubber feet on toms' legs mostly stiffen with time, losing shock absorption, so i set them over an additional sheet of rubber tiles - those stuff kids play on that can be locked like puzzle tiles - over three layers of cheap carpet. The legs dig into these a bit so it kinda works like 'memory' as well. Where the bass drum spurs rest i inserted a sheet cut rectangular, of material used as rubber sole, between the top two carpet layers. The round, meaty sound blooms from there. If I may add, I also weighed down the beach towel inside my bass drum with 11 kgs of packed fine sand I bought at a nearby construction supply outlet to stabilize the bass drum sound, as well as the mounted toms. My bass player tailored his sound to complement mine as a consequence.
Don't forget to mention isolating the feet of the legs. I put Pearl isolating rubber tips on my floor tom. World of difference! To prove this point hit the drum then pick it up off the floor and hit it again. Note the huge difference!
Good point. You know - I notice that issue even more with rack toms. I'm always torn between whether to put a tom in a snare basket or on a tom mount. (Basket for flexible positioning, mount for better resonance). I think somebody makes rubber things like that you can put on snare stands as well. I would be interested in A/B-ing these things like you're talking about.
Yep. I make all my own drums and I use these and there are no floor Tom's from Detroit to Omaha that sound anywhere near my floor toms. It's because of those feet.
One thing I learned early on in my youth was hitting the shell dead center first - why, because the shell has a resonant frequency that is what it wants to play. Once you have that tone, strive to tune both bottom and top heads to that tone. You'll find the drum will 'sing' in a much more distinct manner. Also when you tune tune above the tone you want and then bring the head back down to the proper tone, this will help to "seat" the heads properly, much like first tune of a guitar string too high then drop to the correct pitch, why, because all stuck and plucked instruments have to give a little at first, which is why most heads take a few days to get to where they "hold" their tune correctly. I find with this technique you use little or no muffling/dampening except where volume control is an issue (practice/low volume/etc). I personally haven't used dampening in recording or live play in over three decades. :) (Thank You Neil Peart for that tip. MD 1988 or '89 interview - took me a while to learn it correctly.)
Don't know if it's been mentioned here but, if not, here's something I've found that restricts a floor tom's resonance and sustain and just makes it sound dead regardless of the tom's tuning: The three legs affixed to the floor tom's shell. To one degree or another, regardless of the drum's quality, those legs act as a mechanical ground sink by coupling the drum to the floor. You can test this by hitting the drum while it sets on the floor the way it usually does then by tilting the drum back so it balances and rests on just one leg. I'll bet you'll be surprised at the difference in sound. SO, TRICK IS TO DECOUPLE THE DRUM FROM THE FLOOR. There are a few different aftermarket feet you can buy to replace the existing rubber feet on your tom's legs that will make a nice difference. There are other ways too that are a little more elaborate and cost more but usually work better too.
For me the priority is the play-ability of the set. Tuning low might sound great but doesn't do much good if the head has so little rebound that you are going to get carpel-tunnel trying to play it. I try to shoot for the correct rebound on the floor tom and then tune the rest from there.
I put Aquarian Triple Threat Coated heads on all my toms to lessen the ring and high tones plus give me some warmth. Love 'em. Been playing coated heads about 14 years. Getting older and tastes and playing styles have changed.
Stephen, my compliments to great practical, logical presentations. I have a cheapo Gammon kit , gifted to me xmas 2018 by my wife (!!!!), to allow me to return to playing drums after a 50 year hiatus. Im 69 years old and retired now with unfortunately spinal issues . The kit includes 12, 13 and 16 inch toms. I ditched the snare for very good used pick up on a DW Design one, changed all the heads on the toms with 3 or 4 different combos. Tbe 16" floor tom is absolutely the ost difficult to obtain acceptable Dooooo, Doooooo sound I'm looking for. I'm spending too much $$$$ on different heads , probably very foolishly. G1s, G2, Remo ambassadors, and even 2 different Attacks...... the lztest being their ToneRidge heads . The ToneRidges didn't work well, same with the G2s. So i went back to Remo Ambassadors coated on the reso, and G1s clear on tge batters. Changing and mixing is driving me Nuts. Its becomming an obsession. Whats your advice ? I'm not sure what tge Gammons are made of......probably some wood combo. Thx, be well and safe
My floor tom is only 13" (8, 10, 12 rack toms). Evans EC2 is the only head I've found that works well for smaller toms that want to sound big. Love the videos, keep up the good work!
Thanks! I'd probably agree with you if I were working with those sizes. From my experience, double ply heads can be tuned lower (giving a "larger" sound), whereas single ply get too "flappy" when tuned low. So EC2s will always provide a consistent, big, punchy sound from most drums.
The exact center of the drum is the drum node region and is usually avoided unless you want that sound. Also there is the matter of the reflection of the drum off of the source underneath the drum. The drum legs can affect the sound too. But main thing s get perspective from your space. Appreciate you video
a trick i came up with on my 16 was to put a clear 2 ply on the bottom to help control the drum, i never use dampening on toms and this worked well for me.
If you're having problems with audio going out of sync, it might be from shooting on a device that saves the video with a variable frame rate (like virtually every phone does) then editing the video. The audio track stays constant but the video frames jump a bit. You can use a freeware program called Handbrake to convert the video file to a constant frame rate like 29.97fps and the audio will stay synced.
I find that floor tom resonate side needs to be tuned high because of the distance between top and bottom heads. That’s the case with my kit. Great video as always. 👍
My interest here in browsing up this vid was in how to get best sounds from my cocktail kit floor tom - which is really a tenor up on short legs (i.e. upright) - so the batter head for me is the underneath (which is struck by my adapted kick pedal) from below. The reso head, in effect, is the top head in this case - which I can also strike at need (preferably with the pad-end stick), or even with brushes if I want a 'soft jazz' sound. For my samba/calypso type arrangements, I can use this in combination with a small mounted tom and a snare plus cowbell - and I add my two steel-shelled congas also when needed (plus a lot of small hand percussion on top - when I multi-track). I've experimented with different heads on all my drums (including on my regular full kit, my various hand drums and on my range of various home-made 'kettledrums') and etc. But I would say that, after you've done the sensible tuning, a lot of it is down to **how** you hit and with what desired effect. Cotton balls is interesting (one poster here mentioned that I believe). You can even put small rattle-y things inside the shell (which will 'jiggle' as the beater strikes the batter head of course) - which can be interesting; if that's what you want! I think, too, your choice of **beater** is important: Sticks can be harder or softer, (as with all things musical, it's not just about price alone!). larger or smaller head (and I have some which I use with - my own -latex rubber caps on these, for another kind of sound - which also, in this case, gives very fine control on cymbals when you want that). Brushes of course you can use (and you can choose - on mine anyway - how much wire and how broad and spread therefore) as well as hot rods have their uses too. In essence: I think it's as much as anything about being entirely clear about what kind of sound *you* want. You the drummer are the master (if you know what you're doing). It's not the other way about!!
Thanks so much! I’m new to drumming at age 49 and your videos are extremely helpful, specifically on how to practice on silent set up and brand comparison. I have an old pearl export kit I bought for $85 that was basically everything a starter needs. I’ve since spent 3x that amount in little upgrades here and there. I currently use the pearl silencer heads that came as set off of Amazon, for my 14” rack, snare, 16” floor, and a 10” rack I added. For my 12” rack I DID get the Remo Silent stroke. All were purchases influenced by budget restrictions. My 22” bass........that’s where I had to get a little McGuyver-ish....... As you stated There IS NO GOOD BASS mesh head. So, I happened to have two large pieces of 1/4” thick styrofoam from SOME on line order. I placed on the INSIDE of my batter similar to one of the products you reviewed where the piece fit snuggly inside the rim. Same concept only my idea is to deaden the sound, while retaining some sort of bass, as well as keep the “action” of my pedal as real as possible. I also stuffed 2 quilts inside making sure they did not touch the inside of my batter. Sounds great and not too loud. I am a beginner who has never really hit on actual heads, so learning from you that applying duct tape (it will save the world one day....) to the mesh heads gives a more realistic feel was CRUCIAL!! THANK YOU! I’ve subscribed and look forward to more videos and I’ll be sure to go back through the library to see what I’ve missed. Thanks again, Conrad
the best technique for using a moongel is once you get the drum tuned how you want it listen for the tones that annoy you and very lightly place the tip of your index finger on various parts of the drum head until that ring goes away. mark it with sharpie. cut a moongel in half. place it there, find the next overtone until they're all gone. usually 2 half pieces on top and one half piece on bottom will get you towards a perfect sounding drum. -sound guy
Great info as always. one thing i recently tried is these new floortom rubber feet from pearle that make the tom more 'disconnected' from the ground greatly helped getting a better sound. i was amazed how much difference that makes. simply change out the rubber stops from your 3 legs and Bob's your auntie.
thanks for posting this often neglected drum in the kit. I have also found that the tuning spacing interval between top batter and bottom reso head is 5 half notes (on the piano), with the reso tuned higher than the batter as you pointed out.
I use the Evans Level 360 Hydraulics on my Gretsch and it works very well. No need for muffling or any other ring control products. Resos are all single ply G1’s and balance the thicker batters well.
Hey Stephen - I don't mean to be a critic, because this lesson is useful. Your videos are pretty useful in general. With that said, I've always found that the worst sounding drum is actually the middle tom: usually 12"-14". This obviously only applies to people with a standard 5-piece kit. Also, ever spent time with The Drum Tuning Bible? It's not mine by any stretch; it's been around for a long time (Google it), and probably goes too much in depth for people watching a video. Still, I've found it a really good resource for many of the issues you list here. Cheers m8
I’ve noticed stock heads now often seem to carry a name brand but a lower quality, so still always worth swapping stock heads to quality heads like you say, I also found the quality of the resonant head can hugely affect the sound. 😀
They both sound great, and it will depend on the situation, of course. Nowadays, I am more into a 70s sound; therefore, I go for hydraulic one. Great video, thanks!
If you want a great warm sound that is not dead where you sacrifice head rebound, try a tried and true old trick. Take a piece of thick felt 2 1/2 " wide , not thin Gibraltar or Cannon crap, I use Slug felt and place it under your drum head up against the head between two lugs. Work with this and tune up for the desired sound. This is not the same sound as putting Meinl Honey gels or RTOM Moongels on the outside of the head. Outside muffling is a studio trick for engineers to get an easy sound. The felt really just acts as a high end buffer that can bring you nice results.
Great stuff. My floor tom is always the 1 tom that drives me nuts. I never get the sound I hear in my head. I'm a fan of the coated remo heads. IMO they sound more warm compared to clear heads.
i didnt like any of those tunings. cant say why, but i always tune the res head first without a top head on till i get a nice round & stable sound out of the drum. then i put the top head on and tune upward till i think the drum has the best sound. i do this with all drums, though i go for a different sound for snares. for snares i go go the highest note that still has body on the res, then bring up the top head till the drum has the best fullness, then add snare wires & tighten till they dont have much (or no) after rattle (going for an articulate note). works for me anyways.
Yup, needless to say why. Ever seen a jazz drummer with a set-up Coated A on top and a EC2 as a reso? This (could be) the reason. try another A or even Diplomat! Weird how @ Stephan Clark does mention the importance of the reso head and tuning and then uses a (in my eyes, no offense) weird choice. Same works for the EC2, but a Coated A works in that combo, other ones would even do better for the lower/fatter tuning. Regards p
In response to both of you guys (tbone45040 and Peter De Decker)...we may simply have different tastes in tuning. Tbone, you mentioned tightening snare wires until there's no rattle, which is pretty much opposite of my preference haha. I go pretty sizzle-ey. Now the other thing...In a way, it's tricky for a bunch of drummers to talk about tuning because we all have different kits made of different shell types (not to mention we all play many different styles of music). Although I'm sure a coated ambassador on the bottom of my tom combined with emperor on the top (actually about to test that combination soon) would sound good, it's simply a *different* sound than what I have now. My current combo yields the most "punch rock sound" with high attack that that tom can give. I am always interested in new sounds though, and I do experiment a lot. I think there can be a lot of possibilities for most drums. It's all in what your tastes are :)
totally agree stephen, different tastes. i would never imply my method or sound is the 'correct' one. just thought i'd put out there that i start with the reso head first and that works for me. love your videos. any chance you'll be attending PASIC in Indy next weekend? (dont have a clue what area ur from)
yes-so do I. Reso first .Toms: high enough for a" fruity" sound and then the batter up to exact the same pitch !for best resonance! (Good for brushwork..)Snare: reso first pretty high.NO snares! And then batter up to a comfortable stick rebound.Not to high -let the drum "sing".Snares not verry sharp - so the brushes can produce also "body"..That is 4 U jazz guys..ha ha
@StephenClark , It’s impressive to me how well you’re growing your channel. I would really enjoy seeing some videos of you playing through different styles, and covering some of the challenges you face in each.
The reason floor toms don't normally tune as well, or resonate as well, in my experience, is because they are hard mounted straight from the shell to the legs that sit on the floor. This prevents the shell from moving and allowing a natural resonance. This is the same reason I never mount anything to my bass drum, the weight of the toms will pull on the shell and kill the resonance. This is the same reason I always use some sort of hoop mount, like the Tama StarCast, or lug mounts, such as the DW style mounts. There is a company, I don't remember who, that makes rubber feet in a "ring" shape that allow some bounce when the floor tom is struck, and this helps with the sound somewhat.
If the drum Rings a lot you can use 4 or 5 cotton balls string them together and make them flat about the size of the palm of your hand. Take off the top head drop this in on the center of the bottom head. Put the top head back on that should get rid of the ringing and you keep the attack. If you don't like that hit the top head with a stick, while it's ringing reach underneath and loosen 1 lug on the bottom head until the ringing stops
You should also throw in how much the room and the location in that room affects the sound of drums as well. (This still drives me insane...) I've had drums that sound like cardboard boxes in my practice space but sound huge on a stage. Also I can't stress the importance of a drum rug. It's just enough diffusion to keep the sound waves from bouncing off the hard floor and going straight back up into your floor tom and dulling the hell out of it.
Here’s a tip for floor toms- get you some Gibraltar Floating Tom feet for $5... huge difference in resonance. Just helps add some low end boom and tone to the ft. I like my ft pretty low, but not dead, so this really helps.
I personally like the muffled tone for my floor tom, and just drums in general, because I didn't really like the resonance. But I definitely dig these toms, I had no idea that it could sound so good, thanks for sharing!!
Muffled drums are super cool, and I did have that thought in the back of my head I was making the video ("...unless you're GOING FOR the muffled tone") haha. I've been listening to the new Paramore record, which has the super muffled, funky drum sounds. I really dig both styles honestly. All depends on what song you're playing. Thanks for watching! 😀
Stephen Clark Something that often goes over looked is that unless your toms are mic’d, toms muffled and tuned to sound very low can be extremely hard to hear in a live setting.
Floor toms have always been a tricky balance between head choice and resonance. I used Evans hydraulic batter heads on both of my Gretsch floors for a long time as a gigging drummer. They have great attack, and quick decay which was perfect for live shows. Plus, they lasted a long time. Not so good for the studio though. I traded them out for the Remo Controlled Sound black dot for that good, “John Bonham” 70’s sound. Good tuning kept them from sounding “tubby” with an Evans G1 for the resonant head. Now the sustain goes on forever and it’s been a perfect combo. Sizes were (diameter first): 16x14 and 16x16.
WHERE exactly you hit a drum doesn't get talked about that often. I think there is some comparison with that harmonics trick guitar players do, getting different higher harmonics by touching/damping the string at certain distances up the neck, thus hitting way off-center gets high overtones. This is also important with kick drums: years ago I saw someone play a monster 26" kick, the sound nowhere near as full as expected: same thing happens with an 18" kick, or a 16" floor tom shell turned sideways as a compact kick, which is why it so helps to raise it several inches off the floor. You can only change the length of the beater a little without changing the ballistics and feel- but perhaps adding one of those little clamp weights on the shaft might help?
When tuning any drum i am a firm believer you should go for a pitch that suits the drum rather than trying to bring your drum to a certain pitch. When i started playing I always tryed to go for a certain pitch and found the drums just don't sing when doing that. You'll find drums really only like a narrow band of pitch. if you want something different get a different drum. I'm using an 8 10 12 and 18 for my toms iv'e tryed different combos but this works good i feel. Ill run different heads on toms too. Dont like the ec2 tho, they are too dead. emperors for top heads work fairly well and you can damp them if needed.
Pro tip: try using a coated reso head. The coating brings out more natural warmth of the drum and makes the low end round and punchy without too many nasty high overtones.
I tune differently. . I actually do press the center of the head hard enough and tighten the tension rod around immediately until the wrinkles are gone which is faster than this, . And then i tune my batter head differently, not same pitch but differently. Okay at first i tune it high so i can hear the notes tune it to same pitch to all tension rods and then lower them down evenly accordingly to my tuning key. Imagine the the ding dong you got 6 tension rods and group it into two it should shape triangle (2). . one triangle is ding other triangle is dong. . now it will sound really good sound like muffled but its not. . About reso head i tune it same pitch all tension rods but i timed it. . It should give me at least 3 seconds of sound after you hit it low. . Sorry bout my English but i hope you guys understood that. .
I recently installed evens 360 2ply. Been in a fued with floor Tom since. Your thoughts were inspirational. I have a tip that aids in keeping tthe tuning once achieved. Will send picks later.
You should try tuning your toms with the batter head tighter than the reso. For rock I like a minor 3rd interval and for jazz I like a perfect 4th. Try tuning the reso side as low as it will go with a clear defined note, and then tune the top a minor 3rd higher. I think you'll be surprised at the results.
Tuning is also subjective and contingent on the music. I typically tune up super high with both reso and batter matching. This is jazz primarily. Anything else I drop the batter down to desired pitch. Leave reso alone. Essentially my reso is always high.
the legs are a big issue for not having good body and tone to it I suggest mounting it removing the legs or buy pearl rubber feet for your floor toms, allows then to resonate a bit more so the sound doesn't completely go into the floor
6 лет назад
I prefer hydraulic heads on floor and rack toms. Gives me deep no-ringing rock boom without tons of overtones, especially when non-equal tensioning is used. I need to get the kit 'alive' so overtones become very apparent, then de-tune to remove them. Heavy players like me get way more excessive overtones on high-quality drums. Thanks for all the tips.
Do this test: 1) With your floor tom sitting in the usual position with three legs on the floor, strike it and listen. 2) Pick the drum up by the rim, holding it with your fingers, hanging it in mid air. Strike it. Hear the difference?
Something I have experienced: If you have your floor tom sounding good when striking while off the floor (during tuning/testing), but it sounds muffled/dead when standing on the floor, you may not have it sitting on optimal material. I found that my floor tom on hard wood floor loses it's openness and tonality, but stick a relatively light blanket (folded over once) underneath and voila! YMMV of course...
i find a bit of high density foam under the feet (if it is a floor tom with legs) helps to keep resonance in the drum rather than being lost in the floor
I may try something like that. It would certainly work better than the legs on some toms that have the built in springs... Those annoy me more than anything haha, but foam "feet" make a lot of sense.
You can use rubbing alcohol on a paper towel and a lot of finger nail scratching to get the glue off of the side of the drum. Takes a while to get it all but it came off of my ludwig accents.
Large floor tom? Use 5B // 2B. Small stick (5A) on a "rock sized" floor tom, with thick head, won't push enough air / won't produce enough initial attack. Playing jazz kits taught me "tuning" other (non-jazz) drums.
These videos are totally addicting.. like 'Dirty Jobs' or 'Deadliest Catch' lol.. I truly enjoy them and I thank you for each and every one of your videos :)
A drumcrafter once said that if your drums are good, it can be nice to have a oneply drumhead to let the drum itself ring. But if your drums suck, then it may be better to have a twoply so that the sound will be mostly out of the head. Which is I guess the best advice. It's not just about "the sound that I want", but also "the sound I CAN achieve" with what I have. My drums suck and I bought oneplies and I hate them. They probably help you achieve a louder sound if the wood ain't good, but if you also have problems in tuning the heads, you're fucked. Also I guess twoplies can help you have a more controlled sound in recordings if you are doing things alone with a low budget. If the drums are louder and "ringier" wouldn't it be more difficult to seperate sounds and equalise them correctly?
My simple solution is get an 18" floor tom. 16's suck. I also agree with the 12 being hard to tune. I like 13's. 14's seem to never sound right either. I like 15's in that spot.
The easiest quickest way I've found to make your floor tom sound better and make it at least 80% easier to tune is get some type of "floating" rubber floor tom feet either Pearl or Gibraltar and switch them for the stock ones. In 99% of cases it will make a universe of difference and they are very inexpensive. They will instantly make your whole drumset sound better!
Tune the bottom head up a minor 3rd from the top and use a two ply head on top. Isolate the legs from the ground. I use the Pearl floor Tom feet and my floor toms kick major ass.
Another common problem I've seen is low quality floor Tom legs. If they are weak legs you lose a lot of resonance, tone, and body. Whenever playing on a house kit I will often take an extra set of high end floor Tom legs.
For Rock Fusion, try the evans hydraulic double ply with thin oil inbetween layers, if you wan't that short tom attack with rumble, they realy awesome ^^ no need moon gel anymore !!!
Hit it with a stick, finger tighten the lugs then put pressure in the center of the head, you should see wrinkles. Tighten each lug until the wrinkles go away in front of each lug that's it. Now it's tuned do the same thing on the bottom head.
I subbed because this is the same stuff I went through yrs ago. If you are serious about the instrument, You will be doing this. Seating the shit out of it first really helps.
I'm not sure if you've been asked this out if the 300+ comments lol but could you please tell me what kind of drum kit you have? Its gorgeous and I'm looking to sort of downsize my 8 piece which has turned into a ridiculous and multi colored 15 piece (roto Tom's, 8in tom, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 2x bass drums 24x18 and a 22x14... I just want a decent 3 piece and that snare you have as it looks and sounds simply amazing!!!
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Changing the resonant head on my 16" floor tom completely brought it to life. Apparently 25 year old TAMA heads do not last forever. It was a total game changer.
What heads you use? I have ec2 as batter for imperialstar floor tom. Reso is stock but newish
Dude, this is so much more a helpful tuning tip video than I've been able to find anywhere else. ESPECIALLY because you actually talk about the resonant head; which is something that isn't very much talked about in other videos. Thanks so much!
Thanks, man! Yeah it's super important to get the resonant head right. It's easy to overlook it. I've found that in any tuning situation, if you're having trouble getting a drum to sound "right"...try changing up the reso tuning. That often fixes it.
Here’s a pro tip from the front lines...we’re talking the Boston, gb circuit, Berklee dweeb stuff that no one tells you. The kind of stuff that will get you more gigs.
A huge majority of drummers out there tune their toms too low nowadays. Especially, ESPECIALLY if you’re in a situation with minimal micing. Low tuned drums sound amazing behind the kit. In my practice space, I keep my drums tuned nice and low because I prefer that sound in that environment.
In a gigging situation, no one can hear that. The low end dies in a sea of guitars, bass and middle management douchebags trying to outdouche each other in front of you. Tune your toms a liiiiiittle higher when you’re out.
At the end of the day, the most important sound is the sound 20 feet out front. If you tune your toms low like every other drummer, your tom work is going to sound like the same indistinct “papapahdodododoo” as every other drummer. A little higher and your personality will pop right through in that context. This is the best single tuning tip I ever got and it’ll help with floor tom tuning as well. Floor toms become exponentially more difficult to tune as the pitch decreases.
2 years late to this reply, but You are 100% right! I tune my toms low and I mic my kick and toms at every gig because of this. If I'm unable to mic up (Which is fairly rare) I bring all of my tunings up and drop any muffling I previously had on the toms.
Another late reply, but the slightly higher tuning and no muffling works just fine with mic’ed up toms as well. Many pro drummers, Simon Phillips, John Bonham, etc. play their toms wide open and tuned up to get resonance and tone. It’s all about mic placement and how you control the input (gain, volume, etc.) I play my toms mic’ed up with no muffling and have the toms tuned medium tight, slightly higher on the bottom. For my kit I find that with the floor toms, the interval between top and bottom is less than my mounted tom. I have a minor third difference on the 13” tom, a 1/2 step on the 16 and 18 floor toms. Most drummers I see on RUclips have their 16” floor tom top head tuned to about an A. For me, that’s too low. My drum sounds floppy and feels sluggish at that tension. I’m closer to between a B and C on top. One thing to note....if I didn’t have an 18”floor tom, I may go lower on the 16.
Yes. And this should be considered for snare tuning also in live applications. A few years back I was having fun trying out my different snares at different gigs and playing with tuning. I cranked a mapex armory metal snare I have as high as it could go before choking.. What I discovered was that all of the kick and snare parts in the grooves were more defined and heard clearly. I guess the further the pitches are from each other the more clearly they’re heard individually with no overlapping.
This was something I noticed drummers playing live concerts in the early 80s. The snares were always cranked.
@@martinel2450
A version of that sound re-emerged in the 90s, too. Half of the grunge records everyone loves were recorded with a piccolo snare, squashed to hell and back with an 1176 or a fatso….why? Because it sounds great, it’s aggressive, enormous and it cuts.
He never blinks!!!!
David Mario Comedi he blinks when you blink
LOL
wtf!
I knew there was something 😅
Nothing moves but his mouth
For toms, I use a one-ply resonant head and a two-ply batter head, tuning the reso a perfect fifth higher than the batter (for a perfect fifth, hum the melody to "Here Comes the Bride" in any key). This means that your drum will pitch high as the reso rings out first and then drop down when your stick releases the batter. IMHO, this sounds way better than going from low to high or trying vainly to get both heads tuned to the same pitch. They never will stay at the same pitch anyway and will merely run interference with each other - kind of like a pair of air horns!
Then I tune the batter of the the next tom up to match the reso of the lower drum. If you use four toms, say 10, 12, 14, 16, then the reso of the 16 will be the same pitch as the batter of the 14 and the reso of the 14 will be the same pitch as the batter of the 12 and so on. This means that the kit is in tune with itself - like a guitar - because when you hit one drum, all the other drums ring a bit too, don't they? In fact the whole kit resonates - the cymbals too!
So ... Remo Emperors or Pin Stripes on top and Ambassadors on the bottom (or Evans G2s/EC2s and G1s). Nice Evans drum key BTW. I have two of those that I use for quick head changes. Not only do they have that cool knurled knob at the top, but they have little magnets inside the key so they stick onto your tuning rods.
Please note: this stuff works for me and it's just my opinion that it sounds good. However, if you're having trouble with your tunings, then you may as well try it. Also, if your kit is just too ringy in the studio or your practice space, then try using Aquarian damper rings. I get a nice fat sound with them on my heads, but I take them off for live. Drums should ring - that's what carries your sound. Thanks for the videos Stephen, they are really good!
Sal Paradise Thank you for the great tip I want to try this (I’m planning on using pinstripe batters and ambassador resos for recording soon). But if I’m only using a 4-pc kit and have a 12/13 rack and a 16 floor, how should I tune them together using your method?
Man, I've been waiting for another drummer to talk about this. Great lesson. My floor tom has sucked most of my life...and these lessons are learned the long way. Thank you for the short route!
The craziest trick for floor toms that I've ever learned-and I've never heard of anyone else ever doing it-is tuning the batter a little higher than you're used to, then completely loosening one tension rod. I'm meticulous and neurotic with my tuning, and on paper, it seems like complete nonsense, but I can't tell you how many times it's saved my ass in a live situation where the sound guy just couldn't get ahold of the overtones.
Evans has these Hyrdaulic heads, It's great for players with no experience in tuning at all and are really easy to setup without much tuning. Try them out!
As a proud owner of blue hydraulics, this video is still very helpful. My floor tom sounds like booty and this video is helping a crap-ton
I would say EC2s are the best in terms of sound quality and ease of tuning, the hydraulics are easy to tune but lack fantastic depth of sound imo
hi Stephen, very informative video
but according to me, you forgot an important reason why a floor tom can sound bad; the legs of the tom!
i m talking here about floor toms that stands on three legs, not suspended toms on a cymbal stand that usually sounds great because of their good sustain, and sustain is maybe the most important topic when we talk about a good sounding drum, without sustain, nothing possible, and of course it's possible to control the sustain
the three legs of floor tom are sometimes the reason of a cruel lack of sustain, and if you lift the tom from the ground, you will find that the sustain is back, as if the ground would absorb the resonance of the drum...the reason of that could be because the gum at the end of the legs in not protecting the drum to sound and vibrate freely, or the gum isnt here anymore, or sometimes a bad conception of the drum itself
thank you for your videos
greetings from France
Agreed, your the only one who got it right, I have a 1964 set of Slingerlands, 14" and 16" toms always sounded like a cardboard box. I changed the minimal rubber feet (gum) to the resonator feet from my Pearl kit and 200% difference and I've never been dissatisfied since (playing 56 years)
Monsieur. I reckon you are right. Vous avez le raison mon pôche.
Funny, for me it's always the mid tom espacially 12".
Really? I guess it depends on what you're going for. Most of the time I'll get a rack tom sound I like pretty fast, then spend more time on the floor tom. I will say though...I prefer 13" and 16" toms on a 4-piece kit. I'm ok with a 12", but if I have one rack tom I like a 13", which I find pretty easy to tune. Do you tune higher or lower generally?
Yes me too I can not tune my 12 inch
Same
That's everybody lol. 12s are notorious
try working on your reso head. i thought there was something wrong with me but then i checked the reso head and it was tuned way too low. for toms, you want the reso and batter heads to be identical in pitch.
I struggle with getting it line with the other toms. When I was an ignorant novice, I just couldn't figure out how the drummers of my favorite bands got the amazing sounds. Then I realized that they were all using mic'd up toms using computer assisted sounds to achieve warmth. Maybe the sound you are trying to achieve isn't something that is natural. It kinda like photography. The camera does most of the work, but you still have to use Photoshop to get the ideal photo. Just food for thought.
When your favorite drummers are playing live, it is more likely that they are using gates, compressors and possibly reverb through the PA. This makes an incredible difference to the sound of your drums as heard by the audience. It's fairly common for metal drummers to use triggers on their bass drums to achieve uniformity in sound for live shows but usually only the bass drum.
At the end if the day though, it still comes back to tuning. Badly tuned drums will sound rubbish no matter how good the sound tech is.
What garagemuso said!
Computers didn't always exist. Drums at one time were only mic'd by a couple of boom mics hovering over the drums, if at all.
Tuning to get the proper sound was all you had. The quality of the drum was extremely important. Slingerland, arguably were the best overall drums ever made. They used a wood that no one else would get because of the expense. But they made the drums, and charged more, in hopes that people would pay the premium.
Slingerland is gone now, the primary reason . . . the wood was getting scarce, and the price kept going up until drummers weren't willing to pay the price, as other drums were getting better because of acoustic research getting better.
But the point being, quality, and tuning were all you had.
@@DDS029 Exactly...the old-time pros had great sound because they had exceptional ears and understood their instruments...not to mention their other talents!
True. And sometimes what we hear from behind the drums isnt what is out front. A venue I play has a sound guy that always has the floor sounding like a Harley even when I feel like the tuning is not 100% that night.
As a somewhat novice drummer I really appreciate your videos and the details and effort you put in to them. Thanks and you've earned a sub :)
Thanks so much! I appreciate your subscription :)
The closer to the center of the head you hit the less overtone you have. For a fuller sound it could be fixed by hitting slightly off from the center
Best drum channel I've ever encountered (saying this as an amateur).
Context is so important too. Often a floor tom that sounds too flappy or boomy will sound great played in context with the rest of the kit and even better with the rest of the band.
I have a vintage Slingerland 16in floor tom that I wrestled with and was never happy with, it just always sounded dead. The drum had straight legs with small rubber tips. I finally solved the problem by changing the legs and rubber tips. I switched to the Pearl floor tom legs with those big rubber tips. This completely changes the characteristics of the drum.
I've stripped the plastic from my drums as well, such a cool look. Thanks for the tom tuning advice! Evans clear-heads sounds amazing.
I just picked up a brand new sonor sq1 kit. It came with those coded ambassador's. I hated them. I put the ec2 s on the kit and it absolutely came to life. Great video brother keep them coming
I'm just talking from my experience, but I've always found single ply heads to be good for all genres of music. I've used ambassadors (among others) in a rock setting, and they worked perfectly. I think it has to do with the amount of energy you put into a drum. The thinner the head, the less you throw into it, the bigger the sound.
I have a 14” Pearl EXR floor tom with a shitty mounting system that just clamps on the hoop. I have NOT played a venue when the sound tech or some other person compliments how well my drums sound. I use a Remo Emperor Black Suede batter and an Ambassador Coated on the resonant side. Super low tuning on top and slightly higher on the bottom. I love this sound!
A couple other things you can try : 1) using a double ply head on the resonant side if you want less sustain; and 2) changing the rims/hoops to a different weight or type. For example, changing from triple flanged, light weight hoops to heavier die cast or wood hoops can cut way down on overtones and give a more focused sound.
The rubber feet on toms' legs mostly stiffen with time, losing shock absorption, so i set them over an additional sheet of rubber tiles - those stuff kids play on that can be locked like puzzle tiles - over three layers of cheap carpet. The legs dig into these a bit so it kinda works like 'memory' as well.
Where the bass drum spurs rest i inserted a sheet cut rectangular, of material used as rubber sole, between the top two carpet layers. The round, meaty sound blooms from there.
If I may add, I also weighed down the beach towel inside my bass drum with 11 kgs of packed fine sand I bought at a nearby construction supply outlet to stabilize the bass drum sound, as well as the mounted toms. My bass player tailored his sound to complement mine as a consequence.
Don't forget to mention isolating the feet of the legs. I put Pearl isolating rubber tips on my floor tom. World of difference! To prove this point hit the drum then pick it up off the floor and hit it again. Note the huge difference!
Good point. You know - I notice that issue even more with rack toms. I'm always torn between whether to put a tom in a snare basket or on a tom mount. (Basket for flexible positioning, mount for better resonance). I think somebody makes rubber things like that you can put on snare stands as well. I would be interested in A/B-ing these things like you're talking about.
Yep. I make all my own drums and I use these and there are no floor Tom's from Detroit to Omaha that sound anywhere near my floor toms. It's because of those feet.
Stephen Clark You must see the Gery Gauger explanation of suspension systems, you will be amazed, cheers!
Yes! I have the pearl decade maples with those isolating rubber tips and boy do those floor toms thunder!
One thing I learned early on in my youth was hitting the shell dead center first - why, because the shell has a resonant frequency that is what it wants to play. Once you have that tone, strive to tune both bottom and top heads to that tone. You'll find the drum will 'sing' in a much more distinct manner. Also when you tune tune above the tone you want and then bring the head back down to the proper tone, this will help to "seat" the heads properly, much like first tune of a guitar string too high then drop to the correct pitch, why, because all stuck and plucked instruments have to give a little at first, which is why most heads take a few days to get to where they "hold" their tune correctly.
I find with this technique you use little or no muffling/dampening except where volume control is an issue (practice/low volume/etc). I personally haven't used dampening in recording or live play in over three decades. :) (Thank You Neil Peart for that tip. MD 1988 or '89 interview - took me a while to learn it correctly.)
Don't know if it's been mentioned here but, if not, here's something I've found that restricts a floor tom's resonance and sustain and just makes it sound dead regardless of the tom's tuning: The three legs affixed to the floor tom's shell. To one degree or another, regardless of the drum's quality, those legs act as a mechanical ground sink by coupling the drum to the floor. You can test this by hitting the drum while it sets on the floor the way it usually does then by tilting the drum back so it balances and rests on just one leg. I'll bet you'll be surprised at the difference in sound. SO, TRICK IS TO DECOUPLE THE DRUM FROM THE FLOOR. There are a few different aftermarket feet you can buy to replace the existing rubber feet on your tom's legs that will make a nice difference. There are other ways too that are a little more elaborate and cost more but usually work better too.
I got no problems with the floor toms, it’s always my 12/13 that sucks
The heads I have on my toms are the Remo Pinstripes: 10, 12, 16.
For me the priority is the play-ability of the set. Tuning low might sound great but doesn't do much good if the head has so little rebound that you are going to get carpel-tunnel trying to play it. I try to shoot for the correct rebound on the floor tom and then tune the rest from there.
What heads you use?
I put Aquarian Triple Threat Coated heads on all my toms to lessen the ring and high tones plus give me some warmth. Love 'em. Been playing coated heads about 14 years. Getting older and tastes and playing styles have changed.
Stephen, my compliments to great practical, logical presentations. I have a cheapo Gammon kit , gifted to me xmas 2018 by my wife (!!!!), to allow me to return to playing drums after a 50 year hiatus. Im 69 years old and retired now with unfortunately spinal issues . The kit includes 12, 13 and 16 inch toms. I ditched the snare for very good used pick up on a DW Design one, changed all the heads on the toms with 3 or 4 different combos. Tbe 16" floor tom is absolutely the ost difficult to obtain acceptable Dooooo, Doooooo sound I'm looking for. I'm spending too much $$$$ on different heads , probably very foolishly. G1s, G2, Remo ambassadors, and even 2 different Attacks...... the lztest being their ToneRidge heads . The ToneRidges didn't work well, same with the G2s. So i went back to Remo Ambassadors coated on the reso, and G1s clear on tge batters. Changing and mixing is driving me Nuts. Its becomming an obsession. Whats your advice ? I'm not sure what tge Gammons are made of......probably some wood combo. Thx, be well and safe
My floor tom is only 13" (8, 10, 12 rack toms). Evans EC2 is the only head I've found that works well for smaller toms that want to sound big. Love the videos, keep up the good work!
Thanks! I'd probably agree with you if I were working with those sizes. From my experience, double ply heads can be tuned lower (giving a "larger" sound), whereas single ply get too "flappy" when tuned low. So EC2s will always provide a consistent, big, punchy sound from most drums.
The exact center of the drum is the drum node region and is usually avoided unless you want that sound. Also there is the matter of the reflection of the drum off of the source underneath the drum. The drum legs can affect the sound too. But main thing s get perspective from your space. Appreciate you video
A mallet is great for hearing the tone at each lug. Much more of the fundamental than the attack. This was a real revelation to me!
Very nice of this surgeon to take a break from the O.R. to give us drum tuning tips.
a trick i came up with on my 16 was to put a clear 2 ply on the bottom to help control the drum, i never use dampening on toms and this worked well for me.
If you're having problems with audio going out of sync, it might be from shooting on a device that saves the video with a variable frame rate (like virtually every phone does) then editing the video. The audio track stays constant but the video frames jump a bit. You can use a freeware program called Handbrake to convert the video file to a constant frame rate like 29.97fps and the audio will stay synced.
I use Evans EC2 iced. Absolutely love the sound. To me it’s easier to get that deeper bite for me on Ludwig element birch.
I find that floor tom resonate side needs to be tuned high because of the distance between top and bottom heads. That’s the case with my kit.
Great video as always. 👍
My interest here in browsing up this vid was in how to get best sounds from my cocktail kit floor tom - which is really a tenor up on short legs (i.e. upright) - so the batter head for me is the underneath (which is struck by my adapted kick pedal) from below. The reso head, in effect, is the top head in this case - which I can also strike at need (preferably with the pad-end stick), or even with brushes if I want a 'soft jazz' sound. For my samba/calypso type arrangements, I can use this in combination with a small mounted tom and a snare plus cowbell - and I add my two steel-shelled congas also when needed (plus a lot of small hand percussion on top - when I multi-track).
I've experimented with different heads on all my drums (including on my regular full kit, my various hand drums and on my range of various home-made 'kettledrums') and etc. But I would say that, after you've done the sensible tuning, a lot of it is down to **how** you hit and with what desired effect. Cotton balls is interesting (one poster here mentioned that I believe). You can even put small rattle-y things inside the shell (which will 'jiggle' as the beater strikes the batter head of course) - which can be interesting; if that's what you want! I think, too, your choice of **beater** is important: Sticks can be harder or softer, (as with all things musical, it's not just about price alone!). larger or smaller head (and I have some which I use with - my own -latex rubber caps on these, for another kind of sound - which also, in this case, gives very fine control on cymbals when you want that). Brushes of course you can use (and you can choose - on mine anyway - how much wire and how broad and spread therefore) as well as hot rods have their uses too. In essence: I think it's as much as anything about being entirely clear about what kind of sound *you* want. You the drummer are the master (if you know what you're doing). It's not the other way about!!
I had problems with my floor tom and this helped A LOT thank you so much.
Thanks so much! I’m new to drumming at age 49 and your videos are extremely helpful, specifically on how to practice on silent set up and brand comparison.
I have an old pearl export kit I bought for $85 that was basically everything a starter needs. I’ve since spent 3x that amount in little upgrades here and there.
I currently use the pearl silencer heads that came as set off of Amazon, for my 14” rack, snare, 16” floor, and a 10” rack I added. For my 12” rack I DID get the Remo Silent stroke. All were purchases influenced by budget restrictions. My 22” bass........that’s where I had to get a little McGuyver-ish.......
As you stated There IS NO GOOD BASS mesh head. So, I happened to have two large pieces of 1/4” thick styrofoam from SOME on line order. I placed on the INSIDE of my batter similar to one of the products you reviewed where the piece fit snuggly inside the rim. Same concept only my idea is to deaden the sound, while retaining some sort of bass, as well as keep the “action” of my pedal as real as possible. I also stuffed 2 quilts inside making sure they did not touch the inside of my batter. Sounds great and not too loud.
I am a beginner who has never really hit on actual heads, so learning from you that applying duct tape (it will save the world one day....) to the mesh heads gives a more realistic feel was CRUCIAL!! THANK YOU!
I’ve subscribed and look forward to more videos and I’ll be sure to go back through the library to see what I’ve missed.
Thanks again,
Conrad
Most people I encounter try to tune their floor toms too LOW! They don't speak well, no resonance. BTW, I use an EC2 for rock as well.
the best technique for using a moongel is once you get the drum tuned how you want it listen for the tones that annoy you and very lightly place the tip of your index finger on various parts of the drum head until that ring goes away. mark it with sharpie. cut a moongel in half. place it there, find the next overtone until they're all gone. usually 2 half pieces on top and one half piece on bottom will get you towards a perfect sounding drum.
-sound guy
Great info as always. one thing i recently tried is these new floortom rubber feet from pearle that make the tom more 'disconnected' from the ground greatly helped getting a better sound.
i was amazed how much difference that makes. simply change out the rubber stops from your 3 legs and Bob's your auntie.
thanks for posting this often neglected drum in the kit. I have also found that the tuning spacing interval between top batter and bottom reso head is 5 half notes (on the piano), with the reso tuned higher than the batter as you pointed out.
I use the Evans Level 360 Hydraulics on my Gretsch and it works very well. No need for muffling or any other ring control products. Resos are all single ply G1’s and balance the thicker batters well.
Hey Stephen - I don't mean to be a critic, because this lesson is useful. Your videos are pretty useful in general.
With that said, I've always found that the worst sounding drum is actually the middle tom: usually 12"-14". This obviously only applies to people with a standard 5-piece kit.
Also, ever spent time with The Drum Tuning Bible? It's not mine by any stretch; it's been around for a long time (Google it), and probably goes too much in depth for people watching a video. Still, I've found it a really good resource for many of the issues you list here.
Cheers m8
I’ve noticed stock heads now often seem to carry a name brand but a lower quality, so still always worth swapping stock heads to quality heads like you say, I also found the quality of the resonant head can hugely affect the sound. 😀
You're a guru of drums my man...awesome content
They both sound great, and it will depend on the situation, of course. Nowadays, I am more into a 70s sound; therefore, I go for hydraulic one. Great video, thanks!
If you want a great warm sound that is not dead where you sacrifice head rebound, try a tried and true old trick. Take a piece of thick felt 2 1/2 " wide , not thin Gibraltar or Cannon crap, I use Slug felt and place it under your drum head up against the head between two lugs. Work with this and tune up for the desired sound. This is not the same sound as putting Meinl Honey gels or RTOM Moongels on the outside of the head. Outside muffling is a studio trick for engineers to get an easy sound. The felt really just acts as a high end buffer that can bring you nice results.
Great stuff. My floor tom is always the 1 tom that drives me nuts. I never get the sound I hear in my head. I'm a fan of the coated remo heads. IMO they sound more warm compared to clear heads.
I'm digging that beat in the background
i didnt like any of those tunings. cant say why, but i always tune the res head first without a top head on till i get a nice round & stable sound out of the drum. then i put the top head on and tune upward till i think the drum has the best sound. i do this with all drums, though i go for a different sound for snares. for snares i go go the highest note that still has body on the res, then bring up the top head till the drum has the best fullness, then add snare wires & tighten till they dont have much (or no) after rattle (going for an articulate note). works for me anyways.
Yup, needless to say why. Ever seen a jazz drummer with a set-up Coated A on top and a EC2 as a reso? This (could be) the reason. try another A or even Diplomat! Weird how @ Stephan Clark does mention the importance of the reso head and tuning and then uses a (in my eyes, no offense) weird choice. Same works for the EC2, but a Coated A works in that combo, other ones would even do better for the lower/fatter tuning. Regards p
In response to both of you guys (tbone45040 and Peter De Decker)...we may simply have different tastes in tuning. Tbone, you mentioned tightening snare wires until there's no rattle, which is pretty much opposite of my preference haha. I go pretty sizzle-ey. Now the other thing...In a way, it's tricky for a bunch of drummers to talk about tuning because we all have different kits made of different shell types (not to mention we all play many different styles of music). Although I'm sure a coated ambassador on the bottom of my tom combined with emperor on the top (actually about to test that combination soon) would sound good, it's simply a *different* sound than what I have now. My current combo yields the most "punch rock sound" with high attack that that tom can give. I am always interested in new sounds though, and I do experiment a lot. I think there can be a lot of possibilities for most drums. It's all in what your tastes are :)
totally agree stephen, different tastes. i would never imply my method or sound is the 'correct' one. just thought i'd put out there that i start with the reso head first and that works for me. love your videos. any chance you'll be attending PASIC in Indy next weekend? (dont have a clue what area ur from)
I do the same thing too and its working very well :)
yes-so do I. Reso first .Toms: high enough for a" fruity" sound and then the batter up to exact the same pitch !for best resonance! (Good for brushwork..)Snare: reso first pretty high.NO snares! And then batter up to a comfortable stick rebound.Not to high -let the drum "sing".Snares not verry sharp - so the brushes can produce also "body"..That is 4 U jazz guys..ha ha
My problem was with the bearing edges and crooked hoops. It sould be your tip #9. Cheers!
@StephenClark , It’s impressive to me how well you’re growing your channel. I would really enjoy seeing some videos of you playing through different styles, and covering some of the challenges you face in each.
Thanks man 🙏🏽I’m sorry to say I was avoiding using my floor tom because I struggled with it so much...
I don’t have that problem anymore
The reason floor toms don't normally tune as well, or resonate as well, in my experience, is because they are hard mounted straight from the shell to the legs that sit on the floor. This prevents the shell from moving and allowing a natural resonance. This is the same reason I never mount anything to my bass drum, the weight of the toms will pull on the shell and kill the resonance.
This is the same reason I always use some sort of hoop mount, like the Tama StarCast, or lug mounts, such as the DW style mounts. There is a company, I don't remember who, that makes rubber feet in a "ring" shape that allow some bounce when the floor tom is struck, and this helps with the sound somewhat.
If the drum Rings a lot you can use 4 or 5 cotton balls string them together and make them flat about the size of the palm of your hand. Take off the top head drop this in on the center of the bottom head. Put the top head back on that should get rid of the ringing and you keep the attack. If you don't like that hit the top head with a stick, while it's ringing reach underneath and loosen 1 lug on the bottom head until the ringing stops
You should also throw in how much the room and the location in that room affects the sound of drums as well. (This still drives me insane...) I've had drums that sound like cardboard boxes in my practice space but sound huge on a stage. Also I can't stress the importance of a drum rug. It's just enough diffusion to keep the sound waves from bouncing off the hard floor and going straight back up into your floor tom and dulling the hell out of it.
Here’s a tip for floor toms- get you some Gibraltar Floating Tom feet for $5... huge difference in resonance. Just helps add some low end boom and tone to the ft. I like my ft pretty low, but not dead, so this really helps.
I personally like the muffled tone for my floor tom, and just drums in general, because I didn't really like the resonance. But I definitely dig these toms, I had no idea that it could sound so good, thanks for sharing!!
Muffled drums are super cool, and I did have that thought in the back of my head I was making the video ("...unless you're GOING FOR the muffled tone") haha. I've been listening to the new Paramore record, which has the super muffled, funky drum sounds. I really dig both styles honestly. All depends on what song you're playing. Thanks for watching! 😀
Stephen Clark Something that often goes over looked is that unless your toms are mic’d, toms muffled and tuned to sound very low can be extremely hard to hear in a live setting.
Floor toms have always been a tricky balance between head choice and resonance. I used Evans hydraulic batter heads on both of my Gretsch floors for a long time as a gigging drummer. They have great attack, and quick decay which was perfect for live shows.
Plus, they lasted a long time.
Not so good for the studio though.
I traded them out for the Remo Controlled Sound black dot for that good, “John Bonham” 70’s sound. Good tuning kept them from sounding “tubby” with an Evans G1 for the resonant head.
Now the sustain goes on forever and it’s been a perfect combo. Sizes were (diameter first): 16x14 and 16x16.
WHERE exactly you hit a drum doesn't get talked about that often. I think there is some comparison with that harmonics trick guitar players do, getting different higher harmonics by touching/damping the string at certain distances up the neck, thus hitting way off-center gets high overtones.
This is also important with kick drums: years ago I saw someone play a monster 26" kick, the sound nowhere near as full as expected: same thing happens with an 18" kick, or a 16" floor tom shell turned sideways as a compact kick, which is why it so helps to raise it several inches off the floor. You can only change the length of the beater a little without changing the ballistics and feel- but perhaps adding one of those little clamp weights on the shaft might help?
When tuning any drum i am a firm believer you should go for a pitch that suits the drum rather than trying to bring your drum to a certain pitch. When i started playing I always tryed to go for a certain pitch and found the drums just don't sing when doing that. You'll find drums really only like a narrow band of pitch. if you want something different get a different drum. I'm using an 8 10 12 and 18 for my toms iv'e tryed different combos but this works good i feel. Ill run different heads on toms too. Dont like the ec2 tho, they are too dead. emperors for top heads work fairly well and you can damp them if needed.
Pro tip: try using a coated reso head. The coating brings out more natural warmth of the drum and makes the low end round and punchy without too many nasty high overtones.
JereBruceO I’m currently setup to record soon with ambassador coated resos and pinstripe batters. Is this a good idea for the studio?
I tune differently. . I actually do press the center of the head hard enough and tighten the tension rod around immediately until the wrinkles are gone which is faster than this, . And then i tune my batter head differently, not same pitch but differently. Okay at first i tune it high so i can hear the notes tune it to same pitch to all tension rods and then lower them down evenly accordingly to my tuning key. Imagine the the ding dong you got 6 tension rods and group it into two it should shape triangle (2). . one triangle is ding other triangle is dong. . now it will sound really good sound like muffled but its not. . About reso head i tune it same pitch all tension rods but i timed it. . It should give me at least 3 seconds of sound after you hit it low. . Sorry bout my English but i hope you guys understood that. .
I recently installed evens 360 2ply. Been in a fued with floor Tom since. Your thoughts were inspirational. I have a tip that aids in keeping tthe tuning once achieved. Will send picks later.
You should try tuning your toms with the batter head tighter than the reso. For rock I like a minor 3rd interval and for jazz I like a perfect 4th. Try tuning the reso side as low as it will go with a clear defined note, and then tune the top a minor 3rd higher. I think you'll be surprised at the results.
Tuning is also subjective and contingent on the music. I typically tune up super high with both reso and batter matching. This is jazz primarily. Anything else I drop the batter down to desired pitch. Leave reso alone. Essentially my reso is always high.
the legs are a big issue for not having good body and tone to it I suggest mounting it removing the legs or buy pearl rubber feet for your floor toms, allows then to resonate a bit more so the sound doesn't completely go into the floor
I prefer hydraulic heads on floor and rack toms. Gives me deep no-ringing rock boom without tons of overtones, especially when non-equal tensioning is used. I need to get the kit 'alive' so overtones become very apparent, then de-tune to remove them. Heavy players like me get way more excessive overtones on high-quality drums. Thanks for all the tips.
Do this test: 1) With your floor tom sitting in the usual position with three legs on the floor, strike it and listen. 2) Pick the drum up by the rim, holding it with your fingers, hanging it in mid air. Strike it. Hear the difference?
bonus tip: tuning the drum in 'fast forward' will make it easier to hear the pitch at each lug, making it easier to get the head in tune with itself.
Something I have experienced: If you have your floor tom sounding good when striking while off the floor (during tuning/testing), but it sounds muffled/dead when standing on the floor, you may not have it sitting on optimal material. I found that my floor tom on hard wood floor loses it's openness and tonality, but stick a relatively light blanket (folded over once) underneath and voila! YMMV of course...
Hey Stephen! I just wanted to say how much I love your videos! They help so much and are so well explained. Thank you for making them! Keep up!
Thanks so much!! I'll keep 'em coming 👍
This is a good solid video on the pitfalls of floor toms and how to correct them...I'm directing my students to it... :)
I’ve always hated the mid tom (13” on my standard kit), then I bought one of those drum tuners that measure “tympanic” pressure = problem solved
i find a bit of high density foam under the feet (if it is a floor tom with legs) helps to keep resonance in the drum rather than being lost in the floor
I may try something like that. It would certainly work better than the legs on some toms that have the built in springs... Those annoy me more than anything haha, but foam "feet" make a lot of sense.
You can use rubbing alcohol on a paper towel and a lot of finger nail scratching to get the glue off of the side of the drum. Takes a while to get it all but it came off of my ludwig accents.
Large floor tom? Use 5B // 2B. Small stick (5A) on a "rock sized" floor tom, with thick head, won't push enough air / won't produce enough initial attack. Playing jazz kits taught me "tuning" other (non-jazz) drums.
These videos are totally addicting.. like 'Dirty Jobs' or 'Deadliest Catch' lol.. I truly enjoy them and I thank you for each and every one of your videos :)
A drumcrafter once said that if your drums are good, it can be nice to have a oneply drumhead to let the drum itself ring. But if your drums suck, then it may be better to have a twoply so that the sound will be mostly out of the head. Which is I guess the best advice. It's not just about "the sound that I want", but also "the sound I CAN achieve" with what I have. My drums suck and I bought oneplies and I hate them. They probably help you achieve a louder sound if the wood ain't good, but if you also have problems in tuning the heads, you're fucked.
Also I guess twoplies can help you have a more controlled sound in recordings if you are doing things alone with a low budget. If the drums are louder and "ringier" wouldn't it be more difficult to seperate sounds and equalise them correctly?
My simple solution is get an 18" floor tom. 16's suck. I also agree with the 12 being hard to tune. I like 13's. 14's seem to never sound right either. I like 15's in that spot.
Im starting to think that Emmure named a song "I
The easiest quickest way I've found to make your floor tom sound better and make it at least 80% easier to tune is get some type of "floating" rubber floor tom feet either Pearl or Gibraltar and switch them for the stock ones. In 99% of cases it will make a universe of difference and they are very inexpensive. They will instantly make your whole drumset sound better!
Tune the bottom head up a minor 3rd from the top and use a two ply head on top. Isolate the legs from the ground. I use the Pearl floor Tom feet and my floor toms kick major ass.
I like the tuning of the ec2 and just to clear head itself as I play punk music so I like a little brighter but still able to get a nice low-end punch
Another common problem I've seen is low quality floor Tom legs. If they are weak legs you lose a lot of resonance, tone, and body. Whenever playing on a house kit I will often take an extra set of high end floor Tom legs.
I love both heads!! it's just depends on the Style. congrts on this amazing Channel!!!
Nice video. I loved you in "Patriot" too.
I use clear emperors, over clear ambassadors on my toms. I play Blues, Rock, and Red Dirt, and I find that a natural, warm, open tom sound works best.
Lee Schmitz Red Dirt?
Greg Burrows it's the Oklahoma/Texas Outlaw version of country.
For Rock Fusion, try the evans hydraulic double ply with thin oil inbetween layers, if you wan't that short tom attack with rumble, they realy awesome ^^ no need moon gel anymore !!!
Hit it with a stick, finger tighten the lugs then put pressure in the center of the head, you should see wrinkles. Tighten each lug until the wrinkles go away in front of each lug that's it. Now it's tuned do the same thing on the bottom head.
I have that Evans head and I really like it. I would recommend that one.
I subbed because this is the same stuff I went through yrs ago. If you are serious about the instrument, You will be doing this. Seating the shit out of it first really helps.
Fantastic instructional video. Subbed. I'm going to try those EC2's - what was the reso head?
I like single ply batter heads for tight tuning. For medium tuning I use two ply batter heads. I almost never tune loose.
I'm not sure if you've been asked this out if the 300+ comments lol but could you please tell me what kind of drum kit you have? Its gorgeous and I'm looking to sort of downsize my 8 piece which has turned into a ridiculous and multi colored 15 piece (roto Tom's, 8in tom, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 2x bass drums 24x18 and a 22x14... I just want a decent 3 piece and that snare you have as it looks and sounds simply amazing!!!