As a rogue since vanilla this is a much appreciated video. I spent most of my wow time in tbc and never remember any rogue shunning in pve til recently playing a private server. I understand the min max setup and speed run challenges though, is what it is. pvp was always amazing though no complaints there
I remember it being really hard (almost impossible) getting a raispot in any guild as rogue. I had to level a more viable class (guardian druid) and then establish myself in a guild first before introducing my rogue as my main.
Envenom ignores 100% of mob armor while Eviscerate does not. These abilities should be used only if rupture is already on the mob, slice and dice is up and you are close to capping energy. Envenom and shiv have some synergy and there is a dps method involving these abilities that yields very good results if I remember correctly, this is especially true before all the armor pen itemization
18:59 "Warlocks won't do double the dps of a rogue" Meanwhile, every warlock on the dps meter has double the dps of the warriors and rogues lol. Very anecdotal of course, but there is really no point in sugarcoating it; rogues are not good for PvE in TBC. Damage is lackluster, especially on melee-unfriendly fights, and utility is terrible for everything that isn't interrupts. Sure you'll be able to clear all content TBC has to offer - i.e. they are "good enough" - but for anyone whose main goal is to top the dps meters consistently, rogue is not the right class to pick. And I say this as someone who will be maining rogue in TBC, both PvE and PvP.
@@WarcraftTavern You are absolutely right, and no matter what I will be minmaxing the living hell out of my rogue, no doubt. Also, I love what you guys do for the rogue community, absolutely amazing stuff!
its called dr.damage the best addon ever created for pve min maxing imo :D but its only available on tbc privat servers and there is no version for classic yet sadly
Hey man, can you do a burst damage ranking for tbc? I am expecting bosses to drop really fast with people min maxing and the dps rankings might change a little bit depending on the 5/2 min cooldowns for each class
"It'll get boring seeing the same classes over and over again." I find it strange that the Rogues and Warriors were not saying these sorts of things in Classic when they were stacked to absurd levels.
Considering classic lost so many players and most servers are so low pop, I'd say plenty of people grew bored of it pretty frickin fast... I know I did. Issue is that many of the current rogues and warriors were people who switched for meta reasons to begin with. Those same people will switch to hunters/locks if push comes to shove and they simply wont care.
Nothing won't force me to NOT playing rogue, as I have played rogue in TBC and WOTLK, I love his playstyle and despite I'm not PvP player, I enjoy playing with in PvE. As rogue, I have never a problem to find a group to dungeons or raids, no matter what set I have. Like, the serious min-max mindset is concerning very little percentage of players and guilds. Most guilds just want to reliable raiders who can regularly get involved into raids. Watching DPS-meter and consultating, why you had XXX DPS less than previous run is not thing of most guilds. TBC is not such hard MMORPG, which would force you to push your limits and force you to have the best gear you could have. The stigma of rogues in TBC is big misinterpretation and lots of ppl repeats it, though they had never played rogue. It's just "because my favourite streamer said that and I read it on forums." Advice for people: you want to play rogue? Play him and enjoy your game. You won't have a problem during entire TBC.
Thanks man for that text. I just made a char boost and i picked rogue. Im mainly a PvP guy but pve sometimes for raid. Hope i can get a spot for that, alittle worried for it
Have two of the same offhands. One with instant poison and one with deadly. Start fight shiv to 5 deadly them macro swap to double instant. When deadly about to drop swap back and shiv to refresh deadly. Then double instant again. Repeat
Haha that end comment meta about "The Rejected" I wanted to do the exact same thing after playing classic and making a guild called "Most Ineffective Tactics Available" or MITA for the exact same reason.
Your gonna want blacksmithing max and ready to roll weaponsmith for lionheart executioner (get the mats for the quest now before it gets pricy). Then you're gonna ideally want a good chunk of gold for flying / early consumes / mats. other than that you can chill unless you want a few profession alts to print money so you dont have to farm or buy gold
In tbc my guild is going to run an imp expose armour rogue from day 1, but we're going to run 2 prot paladins and 1 feral tank. The only warrior in our raid will be the arms who will respec for Reliquary of souls in Black Temple for the spell reflect in Phase 2. Rather than shitting on rogues prot warrior is the only spec we generally won't be running.
Love your content, but at 19:00 you say, by the end of T4, your not going to be doing 1/2 of the range dps. then you look at the meter in your footage, and your right, the rogue isnt doing 50% of the lock/hunter DPS. He is doing 40%.....
Dps in my guild hated the fact I was top dps as rogue in vanilla with about 60% auto attack damage. Slice and dice/ sword spec lol keep SS blow your combo points on keeping slice and dice up2-3 combo point slice and dice and keep the 5 point ruptures up. When you get extra combo points from Ad rush blow them on evis. Dps is a easy rotation.
That's what I like about rogue, it's simple and easy in PVE, while fun and complex in PVP. Idgaf if it's not the best pve class in TBC, this game is all about that player interaction, PVP.
Mimax is a thing at classic with an easy content, imagine at tbc with unnerfd bosses, take hunter as example at classic, speed running guilds only bring 1 hunter to pull mobs and use tranq shot, probably rogue will be at the same spot in Tbc, only bring one to the utility the class brings
You are so in denial about pve rogues for tier 4/5. The last 5 minutes of the video are just " we're not that bad Q.Q, please bring me to the raid sir". XD
Love the take on raiding, no reason to be so biased towards some specs/classes. It is very unnecessary. Play whatever is fun and play that class well and you'll be a great addition to any raid team!
Until things start to harder and the raid composition is going to be scrutinized more closely. Look at WoW Classic today, where many raids only bring a single resto druid and no more than that. If there's one lesson to be learned, that is you don't want to be the "one of" class because it hurts you in the long term. I think this whole "just play what you like" is not really true - not if you want to more to the more hardcore guilds and progress through content more smoothly. But as I said - if it's just a casual guild, then yes it really doesn't matter what you do, and the raid composition will be more "fun" and wacky. Maybe you'll see majority of melee and a small minority of casters and do just fine through T4 content. But I do expect that T5 is where things start to change, then onward to T6 and beyond.
@@d0k0night TBC is not hard. like at all T4 / T5 / T6. If you can clear most of Castle Nathria Mythic or have the awareness for +15 keys you will not wipe in TBC. How could you possibly think otherwise? most specs are 1 button man. Hunter (1 button macro) / SBolt Lock / Fire Mage / Boomkin is dots then 1 button.... you have so little to manage that not having awarness for like normal tier raid mechanics would be startling for even semi-casual guilds. Have you ever played tbc? you can clear that content with a raid full of clickers
@@ajays9936 THANK YOU.. I don't know where people are getting TBC was like the most hardest of hard raid content and only the most try-hardy guilds can complete it.. T4 and t5 was a cakewalk if you have people who are semi conscious and can spell their own name.
Hope you'll make some of those videos from your viewpoint where you say it's a thirty minute video someone else can explain. We're watching you. Explain. Edit Also thank you for including us
Glaives are kind of a unrealistic goal for most people. I try not to worry about stuff like that. I just played a rogue back when tbc came out and, I was able to even get my name (which isn't suprising given it was a cringy name that a 13 year old thought was cool.) I got a single glaive one time on a private server but, that's been a hot minute. Idk rogue and warlock have just always been my jam. But I feel like lock and hunter is gonna be the over played classes this time. Unless you going strictly pvp I guess. Then yeah rogues will be all over the place for sure.
Rogues are not bad but you dont need a lot of them you are gonna need to go down from 4-8 to 1 and rogue people really likes to play rogue so they probably wont get a raid spot
Well, in TBC/wrath balancing with 25 mans, you typically need 3-4 tanks, 7-8 healers, 1 arms warriors, 1 boomkin, 1 ele shaman, 1 enh shaman, 1 mage (any spec), 1-2 shadow priests, and any assortment of fillers for DPS. Sadly, serious guilds in TBC classic will likely shove mostly hunters/locks into those spots for faster kill times. If at all possible (I know this has been next to impossible in classic so far), join a semi casual/semi serious guild that doesn't care that much about min maxing but can still eventually clear the content. Easier said than done now days... but here is to hoping more options will be around in TBC classic as opposed to vanilla classic.
I just want to know what servers people played in that were so micromanage-y about classes back in original TBC that that rogues were never invited.. Our server had a LOT of guilds (both super prog and more casual) running 2-3 rogues in raids throughout ALL of tbc and no one batted an eye. Is that just on the try-hard world first guild realms or something? Also, play what you like. I don't know WHERE people are getting the idea that TBC is the hardest of Hard ever pve content and only the most epic guilds can DARE to even think about completing it... t4-t5 is a cakewalk if you have people who are semi lucid and can spell their own name.
Anyone wondering, based on TBC experience and how optimized the raids are (even less hardcore ones.) NO. You won't be considered for a Raid Spot as a Rogue unless theres absolutely noone else to fill in the spots, definitely not until T6. It is not a fun experience to suffer through t4-t5 content trust me, been there done that.
Funny... I was always considered... even before finally being recruited into a US top 5 guild. Why do you think that every T5+ progression guild of that era had at LEAST 1 Rogue in their melee group? Sure there are challenges in TBC for Rogues... pre-nerf trash mobs were some of the worst tbh... but rogues did quite well in many high on-target boss encounters.
Most private servers intentionally buff both damage and hp numbers. Classic tbc should be significantly easier than private servers - they also confirmed it running 2.4.3 values
I think when you mention 2.4.3 talents being why the representation will be lower for rogues isn't true, it's the awful mentality of rogues being trash when they aren't.
Well, 2.1-2.4.3 elevated other dps specs much higher over the course of time. Rogues did fine in the beginning before classes got buffed. Post buffs, you can even see that on the PTR ret pallys were stomping rogues, and that is because they got insane buffs near the end of TBC. It will be a completely different ball game this time with the post buffed specs stomping on the ones that got nothing and were already hanging on by a thread anyway. If you roll rogue, you better be good at making friends if you plan to raid.
Sure warlocks and hunters really shine in TBC but I as a rogue from back in the day never had problems getting raid spots and there was always at least two rogues in the raid for saps/kicks/stuns. You will be super useful in dungeons with all your cc and damage and in PVP you are a fucking nightmare for pretty much all classes having answers for pretty much all of your opponents. Rogues are not going anywhere and I will be playing one for the majority of TBC. I mean i gotta get those warglaives right.
The argument of a flaky raid member vs a reliable raid member is not a good one. Of course if the person is unreliable, then this person will not designated as a core raider. I would like to see better scenarios presented: 1) The traditional guild where you have a class composition of XYZ. Spots will be competed for(somewhat) and once your spot is established, that's it. Outside of real life issues, that is your raid spot. 2) The Pug GDKP/Soft res runs which *will* happen, when you raid with another organizer outside your guild. These individuals(or you) will be the ones to make the decisions around the best composition to maximize chances of success - because it's known full well when it's a pug run, the run is less likely to go 100% smooth. The point is - if you plan to do both scenarios, then you want to pick a class that stands the best chance of getting invited to the raid. You must also assume that gear checks and logs will be checked, and if you don't make the cut, then you're not getting in. Make sure you choose the class that suits your objectives and don't be regretting this choice because you aren't getting picked over another class that's deemed more essential to the raid.
I think one thing people are forgetting with Hunters is the new API broke their "god-forsaken macro"(to quote dev's of that time). I highly doubt with blizzards view on that type of macro now that they will fix it. So I would not put my money on hunters being as good as they were because now they have to do more than binding a macro that plays their character for them to every key on the keyboard and rolled their faces left to right to top meters. Also, I would not be surprised to see a scaling nerf sneak its way into TBC aimed at locks as well. All that said short of Sunwell you do not need uber optimized guilds to do all the content and by that point you are not going to punt out rogues who have been with you for 8 months. I did it when it was fresh as a rogue and we had zero issues besides learning Kale and Vash. Which were universal cock blocks in TBC. And we are likely not getting the buggy as hell release of Sunwell which will make things easier for melee.
None of your scenarios negate it as a good argument. If you are a guild, it still stands that you will not reward those who are casual raiders over your hardcore members. Presenting two alternate scenarios doesn't negate the legitimacy of the first... Rogues as PUG pickups are a different story. Bottom line is, you will want a synergized melee group and one (or possibly 2) of those spots is best suited to a 'good' rogue, period. You want to stack other melee dps in those slots then that's fine too, but come mid-late expansion, they will cost you in raid DPS.
Very true - so long as you're designated as the main rogue, over all the others. If you're liked, perform at the top of your game, are consistently at every progression raid...or are the GM or officer, then look forward to those Warglaives!
Gotta love the KOTOR Korriban music clip at the beggining
Hate it how people min max to the point the content is too easy. The real clout is in handicapping by running suboptimal groups. Melee only raids ftw.
Tell everyone no...that way you're going to be the one to get a raid spot.
🧠
you're*
As a rogue since vanilla this is a much appreciated video. I spent most of my wow time in tbc and never remember any rogue shunning in pve til recently playing a private server. I understand the min max setup and speed run challenges though, is what it is. pvp was always amazing though no complaints there
I remember it being really hard (almost impossible) getting a raispot in any guild as rogue. I had to level a more viable class (guardian druid) and then establish myself in a guild first before introducing my rogue as my main.
Instablaster
Envenom ignores 100% of mob armor while Eviscerate does not. These abilities should be used only if rupture is already on the mob, slice and dice is up and you are close to capping energy. Envenom and shiv have some synergy and there is a dps method involving these abilities that yields very good results if I remember correctly, this is especially true before all the armor pen itemization
18:59
"Warlocks won't do double the dps of a rogue"
Meanwhile, every warlock on the dps meter has double the dps of the warriors and rogues lol. Very anecdotal of course, but there is really no point in sugarcoating it; rogues are not good for PvE in TBC. Damage is lackluster, especially on melee-unfriendly fights, and utility is terrible for everything that isn't interrupts. Sure you'll be able to clear all content TBC has to offer - i.e. they are "good enough" - but for anyone whose main goal is to top the dps meters consistently, rogue is not the right class to pick.
And I say this as someone who will be maining rogue in TBC, both PvE and PvP.
@@WarcraftTavern You are absolutely right, and no matter what I will be minmaxing the living hell out of my rogue, no doubt.
Also, I love what you guys do for the rogue community, absolutely amazing stuff!
What's that soundtrack at the very end?
What addon are you using at 5:46 that's showing crit % and avg crit and avg total and stuff
its called dr.damage the best addon ever created for pve min maxing imo :D
but its only available on tbc privat servers and there is no version for classic yet sadly
@@Phil-fv8yg what about shadowlands? Is dr.damage available for shadowlands?
@@gitarjr No I don't think so but in Shadowlands you have the simcraft addon to calculate your best gear and rotation
Vindruvor is such a good guy. Happy to see some footage from him.
Hey man, can you do a burst damage ranking for tbc? I am expecting bosses to drop really fast with people min maxing and the dps rankings might change a little bit depending on the 5/2 min cooldowns for each class
"It'll get boring seeing the same classes over and over again." I find it strange that the Rogues and Warriors were not saying these sorts of things in Classic when they were stacked to absurd levels.
Hahaha!
i said it... then i stopped playing cuz the meta is dumb
@@FightFightFight47
Purple meta is worse tho.
Considering classic lost so many players and most servers are so low pop, I'd say plenty of people grew bored of it pretty frickin fast... I know I did.
Issue is that many of the current rogues and warriors were people who switched for meta reasons to begin with. Those same people will switch to hunters/locks if push comes to shove and they simply wont care.
@@someone-ji2zb
What is "low pop"?
Nissan even told me to buy a rogue in the ad before the video
Nothing won't force me to NOT playing rogue, as I have played rogue in TBC and WOTLK, I love his playstyle and despite I'm not PvP player, I enjoy playing with in PvE. As rogue, I have never a problem to find a group to dungeons or raids, no matter what set I have. Like, the serious min-max mindset is concerning very little percentage of players and guilds. Most guilds just want to reliable raiders who can regularly get involved into raids. Watching DPS-meter and consultating, why you had XXX DPS less than previous run is not thing of most guilds. TBC is not such hard MMORPG, which would force you to push your limits and force you to have the best gear you could have.
The stigma of rogues in TBC is big misinterpretation and lots of ppl repeats it, though they had never played rogue. It's just "because my favourite streamer said that and I read it on forums."
Advice for people: you want to play rogue? Play him and enjoy your game. You won't have a problem during entire TBC.
Thanks man for that text. I just made a char boost and i picked rogue. Im mainly a PvP guy but pve sometimes for raid. Hope i can get a spot for that, alittle worried for it
Really like your videos man. Been watching you for almost 2 years and I’m never disappointed
It’s his voice for me
Have two of the same offhands. One with instant poison and one with deadly. Start fight shiv to 5 deadly them macro swap to double instant.
When deadly about to drop swap back and shiv to refresh deadly. Then double instant again.
Repeat
Shiv is sub-optimal dps in comparison to SS as a cp builder. If you have enough hit, you should have no issues maintaining a full stack of DP.
Can somebody tell me how a rogue fares against a feral bear
Meta- you too good of a person to main rogue!
I’m surprised you didn’t mention exposed armor. Giving that extra damage to the other melees and hunters can be huge in raid.
Haha that end comment meta about "The Rejected" I wanted to do the exact same thing after playing classic and making a guild called "Most Ineffective Tactics Available" or MITA for the exact same reason.
I need your addons on 13:57 please !
Should I resub now if im planning to main BE Paladins or wait till prepatch comes out? Like should I be preparing for things?
Your gonna want blacksmithing max and ready to roll weaponsmith for lionheart executioner (get the mats for the quest now before it gets pricy). Then you're gonna ideally want a good chunk of gold for flying / early consumes / mats. other than that you can chill unless you want a few profession alts to print money so you dont have to farm or buy gold
this video made me feel good! ty
In tbc my guild is going to run an imp expose armour rogue from day 1, but we're going to run 2 prot paladins and 1 feral tank. The only warrior in our raid will be the arms who will respec for Reliquary of souls in Black Temple for the spell reflect in Phase 2. Rather than shitting on rogues prot warrior is the only spec we generally won't be running.
I like hearing the "th" sound pronounced as a "f". threat = fret, three = free
you no like deadly frow?
Can i secure a spot in your guild from now? by rolling a rogue? please
Missing deadly throws main use in pve - using the pvp gloves it becomes a ranged interupt
Love your content, but at 19:00 you say, by the end of T4, your not going to be doing 1/2 of the range dps. then you look at the meter in your footage, and your right, the rogue isnt doing 50% of the lock/hunter DPS. He is doing 40%.....
Well the rogue in BT was doing nearly 3k DPS and trumping all the hunters and warlocks haha
Expose armor?
Dps in my guild hated the fact I was top dps as rogue in vanilla with about 60% auto attack damage. Slice and dice/ sword spec lol keep SS blow your combo points on keeping slice and dice up2-3 combo point slice and dice and keep the 5 point ruptures up. When you get extra combo points from Ad rush blow them on evis. Dps is a easy rotation.
That's what I like about rogue, it's simple and easy in PVE, while fun and complex in PVP. Idgaf if it's not the best pve class in TBC, this game is all about that player interaction, PVP.
Finally someone told the truth about TBC rogues in pve
Mimax is a thing at classic with an easy content, imagine at tbc with unnerfd bosses, take hunter as example at classic, speed running guilds only bring 1 hunter to pull mobs and use tranq shot, probably rogue will be at the same spot in Tbc, only bring one to the utility the class brings
Woah woah woah. What addon is that, that shows your coefficients I need that.
Dr damage
I've been subscribed for i dont know how long. if you see this and are not subscribed. DO IT! there is no downside!
AND ITS FREE
Notice how this T5 lvl 70 rogue with warglaives does less dmg then a 60 rogue in naxx does now.
instant attacks don't clip white hits or procs.
You are so in denial about pve rogues for tier 4/5. The last 5 minutes of the video are just " we're not that bad Q.Q, please bring me to the raid sir". XD
He's taking as much copium as he can get his hands on lol
Love the take on raiding, no reason to be so biased towards some specs/classes. It is very unnecessary. Play whatever is fun and play that class well and you'll be a great addition to any raid team!
Until things start to harder and the raid composition is going to be scrutinized more closely. Look at WoW Classic today, where many raids only bring a single resto druid and no more than that. If there's one lesson to be learned, that is you don't want to be the "one of" class because it hurts you in the long term. I think this whole "just play what you like" is not really true - not if you want to more to the more hardcore guilds and progress through content more smoothly.
But as I said - if it's just a casual guild, then yes it really doesn't matter what you do, and the raid composition will be more "fun" and wacky. Maybe you'll see majority of melee and a small minority of casters and do just fine through T4 content. But I do expect that T5 is where things start to change, then onward to T6 and beyond.
@@d0k0night TBC is not hard. like at all T4 / T5 / T6. If you can clear most of Castle Nathria Mythic or have the awareness for +15 keys you will not wipe in TBC. How could you possibly think otherwise? most specs are 1 button man. Hunter (1 button macro) / SBolt Lock / Fire Mage / Boomkin is dots then 1 button.... you have so little to manage that not having awarness for like normal tier raid mechanics would be startling for even semi-casual guilds. Have you ever played tbc? you can clear that content with a raid full of clickers
@@ajays9936 Exactly
@@ajays9936 THANK YOU.. I don't know where people are getting TBC was like the most hardest of hard raid content and only the most try-hardy guilds can complete it.. T4 and t5 was a cakewalk if you have people who are semi conscious and can spell their own name.
Hope you'll make some of those videos from your viewpoint where you say it's a thirty minute video someone else can explain.
We're watching you.
Explain.
Edit
Also thank you for including us
I comented several months ago,and it,s finally here 😃😃😃😃
The moment a rogue meets a rescilliance based disc priest the trip is over.
@@WarcraftTavern Prayer of mending with high spell or healing = haha. Almost full health back.
Been waiting to play bc rogue since classic was first announced. Lets go!!
You and 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 others. I wish all of you the best.
@@johnwhick7419 thanks mate
Glaives are kind of a unrealistic goal for most people. I try not to worry about stuff like that. I just played a rogue back when tbc came out and, I was able to even get my name (which isn't suprising given it was a cringy name that a 13 year old thought was cool.) I got a single glaive one time on a private server but, that's been a hot minute. Idk rogue and warlock have just always been my jam. But I feel like lock and hunter is gonna be the over played classes this time. Unless you going strictly pvp I guess. Then yeah rogues will be all over the place for sure.
@@johnwhick7419 With all these, "TBC rogue damage sucks" videos... I think your raid spot is guaranteed if you're halfway decent...
100% should. I’ll go gnome rogue and make all you “big bad horde” zug zugs pay!
Wtf? *zugzugs nervously
Rogues are not bad but you dont need a lot of them you are gonna need to go down from 4-8 to 1 and rogue people really likes to play rogue so they probably wont get a raid spot
Well, in TBC/wrath balancing with 25 mans, you typically need 3-4 tanks, 7-8 healers, 1 arms warriors, 1 boomkin, 1 ele shaman, 1 enh shaman, 1 mage (any spec), 1-2 shadow priests, and any assortment of fillers for DPS.
Sadly, serious guilds in TBC classic will likely shove mostly hunters/locks into those spots for faster kill times.
If at all possible (I know this has been next to impossible in classic so far), join a semi casual/semi serious guild that doesn't care that much about min maxing but can still eventually clear the content. Easier said than done now days... but here is to hoping more options will be around in TBC classic as opposed to vanilla classic.
I just want to know what servers people played in that were so micromanage-y about classes back in original TBC that that rogues were never invited.. Our server had a LOT of guilds (both super prog and more casual) running 2-3 rogues in raids throughout ALL of tbc and no one batted an eye. Is that just on the try-hard world first guild realms or something?
Also, play what you like. I don't know WHERE people are getting the idea that TBC is the hardest of Hard ever pve content and only the most epic guilds can DARE to even think about completing it... t4-t5 is a cakewalk if you have people who are semi lucid and can spell their own name.
Say it louder for the people in the back!
KOTOR 2 MUSIC BADASS
Should you play Rogue in TBC Classic?
Silly question...Yes!!Yes!! But only Gnome Rogues.
There will be soooo many bad rogues in tbc. Will be funny.
@@WarcraftTavern the rogue messiah deliver us all from badness
Anyone wondering, based on TBC experience and how optimized the raids are (even less hardcore ones.) NO. You won't be considered for a Raid Spot as a Rogue unless theres absolutely noone else to fill in the spots, definitely not until T6. It is not a fun experience to suffer through t4-t5 content trust me, been there done that.
Funny... I was always considered... even before finally being recruited into a US top 5 guild. Why do you think that every T5+ progression guild of that era had at LEAST 1 Rogue in their melee group? Sure there are challenges in TBC for Rogues... pre-nerf trash mobs were some of the worst tbh... but rogues did quite well in many high on-target boss encounters.
YES!
TBC-Raiding will be easier than on private servers? Why? I think the opposite due to pre-nerf bosses and actually correct data for items and whatnot.
Most private servers intentionally buff both damage and hp numbers. Classic tbc should be significantly easier than private servers - they also confirmed it running 2.4.3 values
i hate that min max mentality these days, shit this guys. I play my fav class anyway 😎👍
I’m glad you made this one
You think you are (subscribed), but maybe you are not! (subscribed) :)
After playing a PvE rogue throughout almost the entire expansion now, I can tell you the answer was no.
You play rogue for the pvp, you cant even reliably getting into pug dungeons as a rogue.
I think when you mention 2.4.3 talents being why the representation will be lower for rogues isn't true, it's the awful mentality of rogues being trash when they aren't.
Well lets be clear. All rogues are trash. It's just their nature. That being said they aren't that bad in raids.
Well, 2.1-2.4.3 elevated other dps specs much higher over the course of time.
Rogues did fine in the beginning before classes got buffed. Post buffs, you can even see that on the PTR ret pallys were stomping rogues, and that is because they got insane buffs near the end of TBC. It will be a completely different ball game this time with the post buffed specs stomping on the ones that got nothing and were already hanging on by a thread anyway.
If you roll rogue, you better be good at making friends if you plan to raid.
this should have been a 10 sec video with a Sample Text saying "no."
Sure warlocks and hunters really shine in TBC but I as a rogue from back in the day never had problems getting raid spots and there was always at least two rogues in the raid for saps/kicks/stuns. You will be super useful in dungeons with all your cc and damage and in PVP you are a fucking nightmare for pretty much all classes having answers for pretty much all of your opponents.
Rogues are not going anywhere and I will be playing one for the majority of TBC. I mean i gotta get those warglaives right.
So long as you are the main rogue and outperform all the others, then yes you will be the designated rogue for the warglaives.
ok
you say "the" weirdly
No play mage cuz glaives gonna be for your GM even tho he don’t have a 70 rogue yet.
TBC Classic is full of metaslave, no point to play rogue.
6:30
Description: you have a 33% chance
MetaGoblin: "you have basicly 100% chance"
XD
The argument of a flaky raid member vs a reliable raid member is not a good one. Of course if the person is unreliable, then this person will not designated as a core raider. I would like to see better scenarios presented:
1) The traditional guild where you have a class composition of XYZ. Spots will be competed for(somewhat) and once your spot is established, that's it. Outside of real life issues, that is your raid spot.
2) The Pug GDKP/Soft res runs which *will* happen, when you raid with another organizer outside your guild. These individuals(or you) will be the ones to make the decisions around the best composition to maximize chances of success - because it's known full well when it's a pug run, the run is less likely to go 100% smooth.
The point is - if you plan to do both scenarios, then you want to pick a class that stands the best chance of getting invited to the raid. You must also assume that gear checks and logs will be checked, and if you don't make the cut, then you're not getting in. Make sure you choose the class that suits your objectives and don't be regretting this choice because you aren't getting picked over another class that's deemed more essential to the raid.
I think one thing people are forgetting with Hunters is the new API broke their "god-forsaken macro"(to quote dev's of that time). I highly doubt with blizzards view on that type of macro now that they will fix it. So I would not put my money on hunters being as good as they were because now they have to do more than binding a macro that plays their character for them to every key on the keyboard and rolled their faces left to right to top meters. Also, I would not be surprised to see a scaling nerf sneak its way into TBC aimed at locks as well.
All that said short of Sunwell you do not need uber optimized guilds to do all the content and by that point you are not going to punt out rogues who have been with you for 8 months. I did it when it was fresh as a rogue and we had zero issues besides learning Kale and Vash. Which were universal cock blocks in TBC. And we are likely not getting the buggy as hell release of Sunwell which will make things easier for melee.
None of your scenarios negate it as a good argument. If you are a guild, it still stands that you will not reward those who are casual raiders over your hardcore members. Presenting two alternate scenarios doesn't negate the legitimacy of the first...
Rogues as PUG pickups are a different story. Bottom line is, you will want a synergized melee group and one (or possibly 2) of those spots is best suited to a 'good' rogue, period. You want to stack other melee dps in those slots then that's fine too, but come mid-late expansion, they will cost you in raid DPS.
So as a raiding first type player this is a no...
NO!
first!
Perks of playing rogue in tbc. You will 100% get warglaives if ur raiding with a guild.
Very true - so long as you're designated as the main rogue, over all the others. If you're liked, perform at the top of your game, are consistently at every progression raid...or are the GM or officer, then look forward to those Warglaives!
Then again, you may NEVER see them drop. You could do the raid for a year and not see a single glaive.
By the way: Subtlety is pronounced "suttel-ty", not "subbel-ty" like you're saying. I suggest looking up pronunciations in the future.
What a douche
@@tommyddurand Yeah, but he's "Modest" right? lol...
The answer is fuck no.. blizz didn't buff them at all... and they need 2k more health