Yo, I'm so happy to see skyloft on here. I lean more in favor of hazards on rulesets these days, but when I used to argue for bigger and/or mixed stages, skyloft was always one of the main ones I'd advocate for. It's worth noting that the sharking strategy was strong in part due to getting invulnerability on ledge regrabs. With regrabs no longer giving any invulnerability, it's hard to say if sharking would even be a strong strategy beyond the occasional mix-up (which you already see characters like shulk do on smashville or town)
I hadn't even considered that Brawl had infinite invulnerability on the ledge. If Skyloft had been a battlefield stage instead of the weirder layout I'm sure more people would have tried it.
I've always had unova in my random stage list and never noticed it was higher. Thank you for always making these amazing videos, they are always super fun to watch!
This is the second biggest reason i quit competitve smash. While i think my problems with competitive smash are more deeply rooted in the idea that characters are only designed to be "fun to play" and not "fun to play against", my second biggest grievance is all about how closed minded smash players are about stage choice. I feel this problem is deeply routed in the current rule format and the fact that its entirely built around older smash games with a much more limited pool of viable stages. Where that leaves us is a stagnant ruleset where even the most daring tournaments use less than 10 stages entirely for the sake of making the counterpicking process less tedious. What this effectively does is rule out pretty much any non-bare basic stage that someone can express distain for. In order for smash ultimate to have ANY hopes of genuine stage variety, the entire ruleset would need to be rebuilt from the ground up to completely remove the counterpick (1-by-1 ban) system. If haz-on smashville has taught us anything, its that even the most widely loved stage can be completely outlawed if it means speeding up the bracket. As a side note, i have to ask; doesnt king of fighters have wall problems for infinites?
I'd be curious to see what a ruleset would look like if it used as many stages as possible instead of just a few. King of Fighters does have walls but I figured it was ok because cornering someone on that stage is much more difficult. Walls are more problematic when they are in the center of the stage where they get in the way of neutral.
@@TuesdayTastic the only two ways I could immediately think to change the stage picking method like this would be to make the stage get picked at random to some degree or to build criteria that define ways for many stages to be banned at once. Neither solution is nearly as elegant and refined as what's currently used but both could possibly have ways to work Random switch: Starter is randomized from smaller list Player loses match They remove x number of stages from large random switch Opponent bans less (or no) stages from random switch Random from larger random switch Categories Players ban until starter is picked. Winner (after character pick) can specify one (or maybe several) of many pre-determined categories of stages to ban. "No slants/no larger stages/no sharking stages" etc Neither of these solutions are exactly elegant, but they're just a couple concepts that I thought of on the spot
I think the issue with this method is that it starts to take too long to execute at scale. Even if everybody understood the ruleset perfectly (which they won't because there's almost always confusion regarding rulesets) it would significantly slow down the bracket to back out and change the random ruleset. Only way it could work is if there were predetermined random stage pools and instead of banning individual stages you ban specific rulesets. One advantage of this method is you could get really wild and include things like final smash meter in one ruleset and make that a counter pick lol.
I really like this, from my own experience all of these stages are really fun. If I were to do this myself, I’d definitely make Wario Ware and Yoshis island starters as well as another two smallish stages such as Castle Siege or Pokémon Stadium 1 (and make one of them a starter) as all of the starter stager and King of Fighters Stadium are quite large and encourage camping and a Sonic player could simply ban all the small stages and play every game of their set on a stage where they could easily just run away and time out their opponent
I believe Minecraft World should genuinely be legal because you can turn off its hazards and select what form of the stage you play on. For example, if you want no platforms, in the stage selection screen, highlight Minecraft World and hold L (for plains) or L and push right on your left stick (for taiga). See the stage's tips in Ultimate's Tips section for more!
I genuinely think we should turn hazards on for the standard ruleset. The only stages you lose would be the Pokemon stages, but you gain multiple other stages that change from "Just another Battlefield" to stages that are actually fun to play on because they add a bit of variety to the game, while not being too difficult to handle- Dreamland 64, for example, adds Whispy, who can add just a little bit of uniqueness to the stage. On top of that, stages in the existing ruleset become a bit more interesting, too. Smashville and Hollow Bastion become more unique, with Smashville getting its moving platform. Town and City gets balloons that could (potentially) be used in a tactical way to extend hitboxes in the air. Yoshi's Island gets Randall and the Sky Guys, two of the most iconic hazards from Melee's era! Seriously, the game has so much potential to be more fun with just this simple change, but nobody wants to even try it
Few thoughts. I think pilot wings and wuhu island deserve some recognition if you believe skyloft could be legal. King of fighters being legal should add a whole ban. My ideal ruleset isn't legal, but here's something I built without the current legal stages: Wily's Castle Dreamland PS1 Skyloft/Pilot wings Yggdrasil's altar C: WarioWare C: Frigate Orpheon C: Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Skyloft is definitely more of a counterpick stage than a starter for sure. Probably could have swapped it in for Yoshi's Island. Midgar has the same blast zones as Dream Land with a slightly larger stage so I felt it was redundant. Green Greens is fine just has an unconventional layout. Pictochat has really close horizontal blast zones which led me to choose Wily's over it. Castle Siege would be fine in this ruleset but I wanted to keep the list to 8 stages to match my region's ruleset.
Tournament with this rule set when Also I feel like Norfair could be a counter pick because it has a really unique platform design that allows for more recovery mixups as well as combos The blast zones aren’t even that bad either besides a low ceiling I did some quick tests with Yoshi against Dr Mario on Fd and Norfair and these were the results Kill percents Final Destination Fsmash middle 93% Fsmash across stage 115% Fsmash at ledge 68% Upsmash 111% Norfair Fsmash top platform close 65% Fsmash middle platform close 78% Fsmash center platform 93% Fsmash top platform far 120% Fsmash middle platform far 105% Upsmash top platform 90% Upsmash middle platform 101% Upsmash center platform 111%
Something problematic with Unova, and it didn't seem bad in your recording but I've had issues with it in-person, the stage is like, DARK. Too dark, it can make things hard to see. I dunno maybe it's related to irl lighting and that's a tournament runner issue. Nah skyloft ain't an option, sharking is huge. Don't give us characters with many jumps (I main Kirby) that sort of power. Warioware?! I'm surprised Yoshi's Island is a counterpick but Skyloft and Yggsadril's Altar are starters. It'd be one thing if they were all starters but Yoshi's Island seems way more competitively viable than Shark City and Liftoff King of Fighters Stadium is uh, bold, definitely interesting but probably too different from Smash's core gameplay for a single stage... As for stages I'm surprised not to see... Hazards on Fountain of Dreams is unique with its platforms rising and dropping, and iirc the lag really isn't an issue in 1v1s I don't have much experience with it but what would be wrong with Frigate Orpheon hazards off? Sharking doesn't exactly cover most of it. Same for Find Mii Oh, and hazardless Pictochat! It just has those slants on the side, interesting stuff Spring Stadium's ceilings are arguably more legal than some of the things your permitted and it gives an alternative to Yoshi's Island with a flat stage And Minecraft World is only illegal because the materials for Steve are asymmetrical so when they're banned there's no reason for Minecraft World and its symmetrical bonus layouts to be banned Same actually goes for custom stages with Steve's materials differing and Steve having the ability to place blocks way further out than usual. Always wondered before Steve came out why Custom Stages were universally banned.
Im honestly really annoyed that they just randomly skip Dream Land 64 now, like how do you just...make it go from only picked stage to never played when it never changed much at all? It makes no sense. Then again competitive never makes sense
i dont have to compete in it but it is so boring having what seems like every game start on ps2. the game featuring different stages would make things great. warning, potential contradictions and feelings based thinking incoming. unova - ik i just complained about ps2 but i would say ps1 hazards on. hazard toggle is a hassle, yes but this is all hypothetical anyway and i wish we had stage selection screen hazard toggle like roa or ssf2. dreamland - dreamland 64 is a classic that deserves to be brought back. how? idk i would assume just as a bf replacement in gimmick brackets* dragon quest altair - this could be legal over tnc, but id be contradicting myself if i said should, as to me town is also a classic but it would also be fun in a gimmick brackets. it is on in my random stage selection and i love it. skyloft - would be interesting, but i wouldn't like it. it would create some interesting and creative gameplay, but it's just too unorthodox for me. wily castle - another stage with the classic bonus, though this time not over here. turn on any japanese tournament brodcast at 2am, and you will not see fd, but instead omega wily castle. as a fd clone/flat stage, it's better than deceptive pictochat and minecraft world v1/4. warioware - smash players are allergic to small stages that havent been (again) classics in previous smash games. such an interesting platform layout and blastzones. would probably be the most entertaining of all your proposals to watch. cheesy as hell and i love it. yoshi's island brawl - has a weird main platform, which though to me looked uneven, is identical on both sides. should be legal but on of those stages like wily castle and dreamland 64 that are just like where you going to fit this in a current ruleset. all 3 single platform stages have differing main lengths and platform lengths, so they wouldn't fit well into groups, but yet are too similar to each other to warrant their own groups. oh well. kof stadium - FUCK NO LMAO. being serious, it'd be a worthy competitor to warioware for the most entertaining stage to watch. i wouldn't be able to actually pay attention to the match, because i'd be laughing half the match. it would be very interesting, another thing for a gimmick tournament, but i don't think it should ever enter a singles major bracket ruleset. snubs ps1 - i mentioned it in the unova section but i think this should replace ps2, but ps1 would be a hazards stage. watching unfrozen stadium at lacs 5 last weekend was a breath of fresh air, sucks that slippi normalized frozen stadium. even before slippi frozen stadium was catching steam. minecraft world - this could go two ways. either you get 5 new stages ranging from wider wily castle, a layout with not so wide platforms near the edge like unova, and some stages with random platforms on one side on the other. or you get one of those by random. i prefer the latter. only issue is that steve gets a buff, being able to choose at will what kind of blocks he mines depending on what side of the stage he is on. but i like steve so i don't care much mushroom kingdom - very unique stages, like rockwall from roa. wide stage, wider than ps2, but with the same blastzones. also comes bundled with a very unique platform layout. would be only stage with a consistent uneven layout (looking at you yggwhatever). *last week there was a tournament that had "triplats" only. named tri-plats only, it featured stages you'd expect to be there, dreamland 64, yoshi's story melee, battlefield, lylat, and town and city. but also things you wouldn't expect to ever play a tournament set for money on. those being (in order of least to most crazy), prism tower, skyworld, tomodachi life, and distant planet. it was entertaining to say the least, because the entrants leaned into it, picking tomodachi life as a counterpick, and bigass distant planet was actually picked. i've been typing for too long so i'll end it here. if someone makes it through my wall of text, thank you.
I agree sharking is not worth being scared of in this game. Skyloft would be really cool. And I'd even go so far as to argue woohoo island should be a counterpick as well. But that opinion will probably get me hanged. Regardless, I'll never understand how Yoshi's is legal but warioware isn't.
Heya! Nice video! i know i’m two months late (probably three or four not far from now) but this is a nice video. i hope we get see how a hazards on ruleset from you could work out. i’m definitely checking you out every now and again!
5:00 This stage is terrible because when you try to use the down tilt of Sheik, Greninja, Richter, Simon etc. You'll down air right in to the bottom blast zone and lose a stock.💀☠️
Ive always thought the stages were a bit too stingy in most tournaments. I just think its too far to ban every stage that has an iota of jank. Like banning momentos because of a little slope? Really?
I agree 100%, to me a major fun of playing and spectating Platform Fighters is that the layouts of the stages are diverse and matter a lot. Melee is the most successful (in terms of competitive gaming scene) Smash game and they have weird stages like Pokémon Stadium and Yoshi’s Story that bring a lot to shake up the gameplay. And I’m surprised you didn’t mention it, but Fountain of Dreams with Hazards on! I love the platforms lowering and raising and they fixed the frame rate issue it had a long time ago.
I agree that Melee has an awesome stagelist. It has the right mix of small and large stages without having so many that it's overwhelming to do bans. I think that Rivals of Aether also has a really cool stagelist and it's great that you can ban the stages mid game. I believe Rivals 2 is going to have different competitive seasons and what stages are legal will change. If I ever run a tournament with an alternate stagelist again Fountain of Dreams is 100% going to be a part of that.
The picks were still pretty conservative, stages like frigate, pilotwings, mementos, brinstar depths and delfino plaza definitely deserve consideration
Boom, you have yourself another ruleset haha. There really are so many stages that are borderline in this game but I also understand why we keep it only to the ten best.
why not ps1? its basically just ps2 with some slight jank and differences, surprised you didnt pick it. also, you should do a tourney with these stages. i would most def play, and im sure a good amount of people would be interested
It really feels like current smash players are to scared to experiment with stages that arnt battlefield in size. Playing around the stage should be just as important as the characters you play with. Heck if they were gonna make the stage lisy small in general they could of toggled hazards for it at least. I miss the single platform metagame of smashville.
Ok ok hear me out…. Cloud Sea Of Alrest I think that would be an incredible cool stage for tournaments it’s different on both sides, the blast zones are close to the stage.
Really interesting stage list. I have always been someone who wanted a change in the stagelist in my country however, i would also consider frigate orpheon, Kongo Jungle and also castle siege
I tested it and while I'm not the greatest Steve player his blocks do not last long enough for you to really take advantage of it. Peach and Daisy on the other hand love that stage lol.
I personally prefer it as a doubles stage but I should have mentioned it at the very least. It's pretty big and it's weird layout makes it more extreme.
I’m adding all of these to my practice stages! One of the thing that plagues ultimate will be boredom of being too vanilla for those who can’t take it. Yeah slants and stuff can suck but if you play on it… well you get used to it. Totally agree with almost every single pick here
A short flat map is my favorite map to play on because it's too small for campers and said characters don't get any special advantages using platforms to juggle. Makes things equal for everyone.
I'd argue he's more problematic on stages with ledges because he can actually mine the ledge. His blocks just don't last long enough to be very useful underneath Skyloft.
![[SSBU] Jumping is Overpowered](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BmcpWL4FEp8/mqdefault.jpg)
I am hosting a tournament with this ruleset on December 2nd 2023! www.start.gg/tournament/it-has-an-argument/details
Dreamland has been used in Japanese tournaments the past year
I didn't know that, that's awesome! It's one of my favorite stages.
dreamland and yoshi's island deserve to be tournament legal, they're goated
As it should be
@@QWERTY708100BuT tHeReS a SlOpE aNd ThAtS uNcOmPeTiTiVe
Yo, I'm so happy to see skyloft on here. I lean more in favor of hazards on rulesets these days, but when I used to argue for bigger and/or mixed stages, skyloft was always one of the main ones I'd advocate for. It's worth noting that the sharking strategy was strong in part due to getting invulnerability on ledge regrabs. With regrabs no longer giving any invulnerability, it's hard to say if sharking would even be a strong strategy beyond the occasional mix-up (which you already see characters like shulk do on smashville or town)
I hadn't even considered that Brawl had infinite invulnerability on the ledge. If Skyloft had been a battlefield stage instead of the weirder layout I'm sure more people would have tried it.
I've always had unova in my random stage list and never noticed it was higher. Thank you for always making these amazing videos, they are always super fun to watch!
This is the second biggest reason i quit competitve smash.
While i think my problems with competitive smash are more deeply rooted in the idea that characters are only designed to be "fun to play" and not "fun to play against", my second biggest grievance is all about how closed minded smash players are about stage choice.
I feel this problem is deeply routed in the current rule format and the fact that its entirely built around older smash games with a much more limited pool of viable stages.
Where that leaves us is a stagnant ruleset where even the most daring tournaments use less than 10 stages entirely for the sake of making the counterpicking process less tedious. What this effectively does is rule out pretty much any non-bare basic stage that someone can express distain for.
In order for smash ultimate to have ANY hopes of genuine stage variety, the entire ruleset would need to be rebuilt from the ground up to completely remove the counterpick (1-by-1 ban) system.
If haz-on smashville has taught us anything, its that even the most widely loved stage can be completely outlawed if it means speeding up the bracket.
As a side note, i have to ask; doesnt king of fighters have wall problems for infinites?
I'd be curious to see what a ruleset would look like if it used as many stages as possible instead of just a few. King of Fighters does have walls but I figured it was ok because cornering someone on that stage is much more difficult. Walls are more problematic when they are in the center of the stage where they get in the way of neutral.
@@TuesdayTastic the only two ways I could immediately think to change the stage picking method like this would be to make the stage get picked at random to some degree or to build criteria that define ways for many stages to be banned at once.
Neither solution is nearly as elegant and refined as what's currently used but both could possibly have ways to work
Random switch:
Starter is randomized from smaller list
Player loses match
They remove x number of stages from large random switch
Opponent bans less (or no) stages from random switch
Random from larger random switch
Categories
Players ban until starter is picked.
Winner (after character pick) can specify one (or maybe several) of many pre-determined categories of stages to ban.
"No slants/no larger stages/no sharking stages" etc
Neither of these solutions are exactly elegant, but they're just a couple concepts that I thought of on the spot
I think the issue with this method is that it starts to take too long to execute at scale. Even if everybody understood the ruleset perfectly (which they won't because there's almost always confusion regarding rulesets) it would significantly slow down the bracket to back out and change the random ruleset. Only way it could work is if there were predetermined random stage pools and instead of banning individual stages you ban specific rulesets. One advantage of this method is you could get really wild and include things like final smash meter in one ruleset and make that a counter pick lol.
I really like this, from my own experience all of these stages are really fun. If I were to do this myself, I’d definitely make Wario Ware and Yoshis island starters as well as another two smallish stages such as Castle Siege or Pokémon Stadium 1 (and make one of them a starter) as all of the starter stager and King of Fighters Stadium are quite large and encourage camping and a Sonic player could simply ban all the small stages and play every game of their set on a stage where they could easily just run away and time out their opponent
*hazards on ps1
these stages would have been legal in any other smash game
King of Fighters Stadium in Melee would go crazy
I believe Minecraft World should genuinely be legal because you can turn off its hazards and select what form of the stage you play on. For example, if you want no platforms, in the stage selection screen, highlight Minecraft World and hold L (for plains) or L and push right on your left stick (for taiga). See the stage's tips in Ultimate's Tips section for more!
I think a bracket that only played on Minecraft World would be very interesting.
I would even say the asymmetrical fire emblem stage would work very well
I genuinely think we should turn hazards on for the standard ruleset. The only stages you lose would be the Pokemon stages, but you gain multiple other stages that change from "Just another Battlefield" to stages that are actually fun to play on because they add a bit of variety to the game, while not being too difficult to handle- Dreamland 64, for example, adds Whispy, who can add just a little bit of uniqueness to the stage. On top of that, stages in the existing ruleset become a bit more interesting, too. Smashville and Hollow Bastion become more unique, with Smashville getting its moving platform. Town and City gets balloons that could (potentially) be used in a tactical way to extend hitboxes in the air. Yoshi's Island gets Randall and the Sky Guys, two of the most iconic hazards from Melee's era! Seriously, the game has so much potential to be more fun with just this simple change, but nobody wants to even try it
Not having Randall is a travesty that needs to be amended
BRING BACK UNOVA LEAGUE
there's literally nothing wrong with it!
Few thoughts.
I think pilot wings and wuhu island deserve some recognition if you believe skyloft could be legal. King of fighters being legal should add a whole ban. My ideal ruleset isn't legal, but here's something I built without the current legal stages:
Wily's Castle
Dreamland
PS1
Skyloft/Pilot wings
Yggdrasil's altar
C: WarioWare
C: Frigate Orpheon
C: Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
I think big battlefield and luminous tower have good arguments for a 2nd tournament like this
It's a wednesday, so no like for you unless the video is actually good.
...You win this round.
Skyloft feels like a counterpick stage to me. What about hazards off Midgar, Green Greens, Pictochat, or Castle Seige?
Skyloft is definitely more of a counterpick stage than a starter for sure. Probably could have swapped it in for Yoshi's Island. Midgar has the same blast zones as Dream Land with a slightly larger stage so I felt it was redundant. Green Greens is fine just has an unconventional layout. Pictochat has really close horizontal blast zones which led me to choose Wily's over it. Castle Siege would be fine in this ruleset but I wanted to keep the list to 8 stages to match my region's ruleset.
I love Yggdrasil’s altar. Glad to se it made it in, would love to see Northern Cave in, though. Fantastic Vid!
Honestly. It’s Wednesday at 2 am. I haven’t gone to bed yet so it’s still Tuesday in my heart.
While watching this I realized that I had subscribed today after the stream coincidentally on a Tuesday
Best time to subscribe happy to have you!
Tournament with this rule set when
Also I feel like Norfair could be a counter pick because it has a really unique platform design that allows for more recovery mixups as well as combos
The blast zones aren’t even that bad either besides a low ceiling
I did some quick tests with Yoshi against Dr Mario on Fd and Norfair and these were the results
Kill percents
Final Destination
Fsmash middle 93%
Fsmash across stage 115%
Fsmash at ledge 68%
Upsmash 111%
Norfair
Fsmash top platform close 65%
Fsmash middle platform close 78%
Fsmash center platform 93%
Fsmash top platform far 120%
Fsmash middle platform far 105%
Upsmash top platform 90%
Upsmash middle platform 101%
Upsmash center platform 111%
Norfair is a wild one, but I'd love to see some sweaty games happen on that stage lol.
@@TuesdayTastic you going to lan king tonight
biggest reason unova is banned is cause its hard to see for some colorblind people
I didn't know that was a potential issue with the stage. That's good to know and I can see why it's not allowed.
we need a summit event with these stages.
I'll see what I can do o7
Something problematic with Unova, and it didn't seem bad in your recording but I've had issues with it in-person, the stage is like, DARK. Too dark, it can make things hard to see. I dunno maybe it's related to irl lighting and that's a tournament runner issue.
Nah skyloft ain't an option, sharking is huge. Don't give us characters with many jumps (I main Kirby) that sort of power.
Warioware?!
I'm surprised Yoshi's Island is a counterpick but Skyloft and Yggsadril's Altar are starters. It'd be one thing if they were all starters but Yoshi's Island seems way more competitively viable than Shark City and Liftoff
King of Fighters Stadium is uh, bold, definitely interesting but probably too different from Smash's core gameplay for a single stage...
As for stages I'm surprised not to see... Hazards on Fountain of Dreams is unique with its platforms rising and dropping, and iirc the lag really isn't an issue in 1v1s
I don't have much experience with it but what would be wrong with Frigate Orpheon hazards off? Sharking doesn't exactly cover most of it.
Same for Find Mii
Oh, and hazardless Pictochat! It just has those slants on the side, interesting stuff
Spring Stadium's ceilings are arguably more legal than some of the things your permitted and it gives an alternative to Yoshi's Island with a flat stage
And Minecraft World is only illegal because the materials for Steve are asymmetrical so when they're banned there's no reason for Minecraft World and its symmetrical bonus layouts to be banned
Same actually goes for custom stages with Steve's materials differing and Steve having the ability to place blocks way further out than usual. Always wondered before Steve came out why Custom Stages were universally banned.
Im honestly really annoyed that they just randomly skip Dream Land 64 now, like how do you just...make it go from only picked stage to never played when it never changed much at all? It makes no sense. Then again competitive never makes sense
i dont have to compete in it but it is so boring having what seems like every game start on ps2. the game featuring different stages would make things great.
warning, potential contradictions and feelings based thinking incoming.
unova - ik i just complained about ps2 but i would say ps1 hazards on. hazard toggle is a hassle, yes but this is all hypothetical anyway and i wish we had stage selection screen hazard toggle like roa or ssf2.
dreamland - dreamland 64 is a classic that deserves to be brought back. how? idk i would assume just as a bf replacement in gimmick brackets*
dragon quest altair - this could be legal over tnc, but id be contradicting myself if i said should, as to me town is also a classic but it would also be fun in a gimmick brackets. it is on in my random stage selection and i love it.
skyloft - would be interesting, but i wouldn't like it. it would create some interesting and creative gameplay, but it's just too unorthodox for me.
wily castle - another stage with the classic bonus, though this time not over here. turn on any japanese tournament brodcast at 2am, and you will not see fd, but instead omega wily castle. as a fd clone/flat stage, it's better than deceptive pictochat and minecraft world v1/4.
warioware - smash players are allergic to small stages that havent been (again) classics in previous smash games. such an interesting platform layout and blastzones. would probably be the most entertaining of all your proposals to watch. cheesy as hell and i love it.
yoshi's island brawl - has a weird main platform, which though to me looked uneven, is identical on both sides. should be legal but on of those stages like wily castle and dreamland 64 that are just like where you going to fit this in a current ruleset. all 3 single platform stages have differing main lengths and platform lengths, so they wouldn't fit well into groups, but yet are too similar to each other to warrant their own groups. oh well.
kof stadium - FUCK NO LMAO. being serious, it'd be a worthy competitor to warioware for the most entertaining stage to watch. i wouldn't be able to actually pay attention to the match, because i'd be laughing half the match. it would be very interesting, another thing for a gimmick tournament, but i don't think it should ever enter a singles major bracket ruleset.
snubs
ps1 - i mentioned it in the unova section but i think this should replace ps2, but ps1 would be a hazards stage. watching unfrozen stadium at lacs 5 last weekend was a breath of fresh air, sucks that slippi normalized frozen stadium. even before slippi frozen stadium was catching steam.
minecraft world - this could go two ways. either you get 5 new stages ranging from wider wily castle, a layout with not so wide platforms near the edge like unova, and some stages with random platforms on one side on the other. or you get one of those by random. i prefer the latter. only issue is that steve gets a buff, being able to choose at will what kind of blocks he mines depending on what side of the stage he is on. but i like steve so i don't care much
mushroom kingdom - very unique stages, like rockwall from roa. wide stage, wider than ps2, but with the same blastzones. also comes bundled with a very unique platform layout. would be only stage with a consistent uneven layout (looking at you yggwhatever).
*last week there was a tournament that had "triplats" only. named tri-plats only, it featured stages you'd expect to be there, dreamland 64, yoshi's story melee, battlefield, lylat, and town and city. but also things you wouldn't expect to ever play a tournament set for money on. those being (in order of least to most crazy), prism tower, skyworld, tomodachi life, and distant planet. it was entertaining to say the least, because the entrants leaned into it, picking tomodachi life as a counterpick, and bigass distant planet was actually picked.
i've been typing for too long so i'll end it here. if someone makes it through my wall of text, thank you.
I agree sharking is not worth being scared of in this game. Skyloft would be really cool. And I'd even go so far as to argue woohoo island should be a counterpick as well. But that opinion will probably get me hanged.
Regardless, I'll never understand how Yoshi's is legal but warioware isn't.
Heya! Nice video! i know i’m two months late (probably three or four not far from now) but this is a nice video. i hope we get see how a hazards on ruleset from you could work out. i’m definitely checking you out every now and again!
Winged Sephiroth on Skyloft would be very problematic and I would love it
He needs it
Welllll it's a Wednesday, but what the heck, I'll leave a like anyways.
5:00 This stage is terrible because when you try to use the down tilt of Sheik, Greninja, Richter, Simon etc. You'll down air right in to the bottom blast zone and lose a stock.💀☠️
Ive always thought the stages were a bit too stingy in most tournaments. I just think its too far to ban every stage that has an iota of jank. Like banning momentos because of a little slope? Really?
Smash if it had a good stage list:
I would rather have temple be legal than kof stadium
yeah douno about KoF
Fountain and Halberd though...
I agree 100%, to me a major fun of playing and spectating Platform Fighters is that the layouts of the stages are diverse and matter a lot.
Melee is the most successful (in terms of competitive gaming scene) Smash game and they have weird stages like Pokémon Stadium and Yoshi’s Story that bring a lot to shake up the gameplay.
And I’m surprised you didn’t mention it, but Fountain of Dreams with Hazards on! I love the platforms lowering and raising and they fixed the frame rate issue it had a long time ago.
I agree that Melee has an awesome stagelist. It has the right mix of small and large stages without having so many that it's overwhelming to do bans. I think that Rivals of Aether also has a really cool stagelist and it's great that you can ban the stages mid game. I believe Rivals 2 is going to have different competitive seasons and what stages are legal will change. If I ever run a tournament with an alternate stagelist again Fountain of Dreams is 100% going to be a part of that.
Really cool video. Love seeing some different content for Smash Ultimate. Well done. Subbed
This makes me realize: Maybe you can build custom stages to utilize in tournaments? Like making skyloft without sharking, for instance.
I actually had custom stages on my most recent tournament poll. It got 3rd place but it's a format I'd like to explore more.
Based stage list
The picks were still pretty conservative, stages like frigate, pilotwings, mementos, brinstar depths and delfino plaza definitely deserve consideration
Boom, you have yourself another ruleset haha. There really are so many stages that are borderline in this game but I also understand why we keep it only to the ten best.
Cool idea, I might try some of these out in my friendlies to mix it up a bit
why not ps1? its basically just ps2 with some slight jank and differences, surprised you didnt pick it. also, you should do a tourney with these stages. i would most def play, and im sure a good amount of people would be interested
I decided to not add PS1 because it's too similar to PS2 and I wanted to feature other stages
It really feels like current smash players are to scared to experiment with stages that arnt battlefield in size. Playing around the stage should be just as important as the characters you play with.
Heck if they were gonna make the stage lisy small in general they could of toggled hazards for it at least. I miss the single platform metagame of smashville.
I miss Smashville a ton as well. That stage was way more interesting with the moving platform.
Ridley would have to ban like 5 stages😢
But imagine dragging someone's face through the wall on King of Fighters. It wouldn't be good but it would look cool.
I'd love to legalize Minecraft. It's big, but I really like it. Specially for 2v2
There's a lot of stages that would be great for doubles but we never really see.
Ok ok hear me out…. Cloud Sea Of Alrest I think that would be an incredible cool stage for tournaments it’s different on both sides, the blast zones are close to the stage.
It's a pretty good stage I would prefer it over something like Castle Siege.
Really interesting stage list. I have always been someone who wanted a change in the stagelist in my country however, i would also consider frigate orpheon, Kongo Jungle and also castle siege
Dreamland: me awake
Dreamland with hazards off: me shleep
Wispyless is worse I agree
Good ass video, it's not Tuesday but I'm still subbing
Good thing it's Tuesday tomorrow!
I don't want to be that guy but...
You could replace PS2 with PS1.
I didn't include it because I wanted to feature more unique stages.
@@TuesdayTastic Yeah, I figured.
It really do be Tuesday
swap skyloft for northern cave and swap KOF stadium for lylat. And i'd think that'd be otherwise a perfect stagelist imo
1:00 JUMP UP IN THE AIR
Spring stadium would be interesting.
I'm a big fan of that stage for doubles. I think it's too big for 1v1 smash though.
Steve would absolutely ruin Skyloft
I tested it and while I'm not the greatest Steve player his blocks do not last long enough for you to really take advantage of it. Peach and Daisy on the other hand love that stage lol.
It was perfect until bro said kof
After doing a tournament with it I can firmly say that it was a bad idea lol. Everyone lived to 200.
Mementos was completely forgotten
I personally prefer it as a doubles stage but I should have mentioned it at the very least. It's pretty big and it's weird layout makes it more extreme.
That lucario was dog water 🗿 4:11
Yeah who tf would counter in that situation
thoroughly well reasoned
Cool video, do you want to do some 1v1s
While that would be fun I'm pretty busy trying to release RUclips videos while working a fulltime job so I just don't have the time unfortunately.
Good video!
Good video and interesting idea.
I'd like to see Snowy Tundra Minecraft World as a counterpick as well.
While that is a good stage it didn't make the list because it's not immediately obvious how to get that stage from the select screen.
I’m adding all of these to my practice stages! One of the thing that plagues ultimate will be boredom of being too vanilla for those who can’t take it. Yeah slants and stuff can suck but if you play on it… well you get used to it. Totally agree with almost every single pick here
Yeah slants can suck but if we played on Lylat in Smash 4 when it was tilted half the time, the slants on Yoshi's Story look tame in comparison lol
🤘
A short flat map is my favorite map to play on because it's too small for campers and said characters don't get any special advantages using platforms to juggle.
Makes things equal for everyone.
We need small destination. I want Ridley Nair to be able to cover 50% of the stage.
Castle siege is really fun. I like how the different sections of the map actually feel weirdly different to fight on
5:16 Steve
I'd argue he's more problematic on stages with ledges because he can actually mine the ledge. His blocks just don't last long enough to be very useful underneath Skyloft.
Why not Fountain?
Saving that for the hazards on stagelist ;)
I wish we used more stages.
As a spectator of the game I absolutely agree. As a competitor I can understand why we use so few stages. It's less variables to prepare for.
Why not ps1?
It's too similar to PS2 and I wanted to feature unique stages
Make an similar list but hazards are on
I already know that Fountain of Dreams is making that list frame 1
@@TuesdayTasticwhat about ps1 hazards?
For sure, love that stage in melee. Watching it not be frozen at the Ludwig tournament was refreshing to see.