Plot twist: Imagine Griffith meant chicken wings but god misunderstood so all of his comrades were slaughtered. Since Griffith wanted chicken wings we can assume he was hungry (for the pussy) so he raped Casca.
I bought the manga where the chapter wasn't included. However, as Griffith starts his transformation, we still get a glimpse of the idea of evil and Griffith asks "Is that... god?" The rest of it was cut out. So it's kind of still there but more ambiguous. The main reason why Miura scrapped the chapter was because he wasn't happy with the concept of defining the idea of evil as a god because it would limit the possibilities. Maybe he'll bring it back in the last chapters and I actually hope for it because the concept behind the idea of evil is truly fascinating. But maybe Miura will keep its existence more ambiguous in the future, kinda like Skull Knight's identity and his beef with Void.
I always found the idea of evil such a fascinating concept, canon or not. It kind’ve re-contextualizes things, void’s narration in the opening of every episode of the 97 episode about man having no control over his own will is assumed to be talking about Guts, but because of the IoE’s manipulation of fate to chose Griffith before he was born, voids narration is actually talking about Griffith. It’s presence adds another layer of complexity to Berserk’s already compellingly complex world building, and really speaks to the question of is man truly free from fate, causality, etc.
It is certainly interesting. I think that free will does exist in berserk, but then at the same time we have things like behelits - which will end up where they are pre-ordained to end up when the time is right. If Guts carrying the behelit this whole time is simply a function of causality and not truly his own autonomous will, then are any of his other actions necessarily different? If carrying the behelit is playing into fate, then we cannot deny the possibility that every single action he takes is playing into fate as well. The only evidence we have to say otherwise is that SK/slan have said he can breach the surface of the river of causality. Though if you think about it, a fish breaching the surface of a river is such an insignificant and meaningless act when you look at the river as a whole - truly it is negligible and completely inconsequential. Perhaps Guts does have enough free will to "breach the river's surface" - even so, he will still end up downstream at the exact same spot he'd end up if he couldn't breach the surface. If he was stated to uniquely swim against the river, that would be different. But as it is described, he can only breach its surface. Which is completely inconsequential in determining where the fish will end up and when it will end up there. So perhaps, in a practical sense, free will in berserk is truly an illusion after all. I guess that falls in line with my real-world view as well, that free will does not, and could not possibly, exist... due to the basic laws of physics, and in berserk, due to the basic laws of causality. I guess we'll see :)
" is there a difference" - Griffith (golden age) was maybe a foreshadowing towards the reveal of the idea of evil Idea of Evil = Logical Problem of Evil
Houston I love your analysis of Guts but whose to say it’s really even Guts that’ll be the hero it may be which it’s been hinting to the moonlight boy being the key
Great take! My thoughts are very similar. His ability to break the surface like a fish ,if taken literally, means that he can jump put of the the flow of fate for a moment of freedom but will land straight back in it. In that sense I dont agree that his destination is the same but more that at those small moments where he breaks fate he path changes and so does the path of those around him, the eclipse being a perfect example; he was supposed to die, he breached fate to survive, which led him down a new path. I feel SK serves a similar purpose as well.
My theory is that the reason guts can subvert what Causality has pre-ordained, is because by all accounts guts should have been dead when he was born under his hanging mother's Corpse, but something happened, as vague as it may be, something happened at that moment, whether it be an inexplicable error in the Idea's part, or the Will Alone of a single human, Shisu, Gut's adopted mother, who wanted this baby to be alive. Whatever the case may be, Guts instantly became an outsider of Fate, if causality wasn't able to kill him then and there, then forever from that point will Causality no longer function the same way towards Gut's as other humans. Its like if you calculate an infinitely long math equation, and at just a single point, you enter a very minor incorrect variable, but instead of correcting it, you have to move forward with a continuing equation that just goes on and on and can't be stopped, while there is an error that stays within your calculations. Thats how I would describe it. Guts is just a very lucky Error. Another example I just thought of was Steins;Gate, Spoilers, in order for Rintaro to stop Kirisu's death, he simply had to "Trick the World into thinking Kirisu was dead", by this same logic, a baby born into a puddle of gunk and blood under his own mother hanging by a noose, would definitely *seem* dead. The World, The Idea, thought so too, but it was just, tricked.
I also feel like if you can stay around guts and not die that throws fate even more out of the loop. Guts and his friends are essentially the idea of hope.
I think this is a good way to view it, but if wasn't for guts, Griffith wouldn't become Femto, later wouldn't make a physical form and wouldn't trick Skull Knight to merge the astral and mortal planes, I think the IoE don't orchestrate everything, just big influential events and the things needed to this happen, in the case of Guts, something really didn't came out as it should, but easily the destiny is rewritten now making him part of what will happen, just think now, without Guts, Femto wouldn't exists, the IoE used Guts, and used Skull Knight too, even if he being the embodiement of the acting against causality
Ítalo Lucena Vaz Ya that’s the part that bothers me the most. If I had to come up with an argument that fits it into my theory though, I’d say it’s like this. Yes, the reason Griffith became Femto is because Gut’s left him. If Guts hadn’t left though, it’s fairly possible Griffith wouldn’t go down the Femto Road. In other words, Guts influence against causality has indeed affected Griffith, but only for the time he was able to directly influence him, as a close companion on the battlefield. With guts gone, the influence is gone, Causality is able to resume as it should for Griffith without an outside force against it, and it gets to a point of no turning back where even if Guts re entered the picture, i.e. coming back to save Griffith and all, he wouldn’t be able to stop him, no matter what, his influence can only do so much in so little time. Griffith had been far too gone at that point. But even with that theoretical argument, it feels like there would be a paradox in space time or two, but I guess that’s a given when arguing about the machinations of reality itself within the Berserk world...
Nihoolious Agreed. Especially since Miura practically included it when Flora referenced something deeper in the abyss that the Godhand adhere to, its mentioned a couple more times too iirc
i get where this is coming from but no contradictions doesnt prove its existence. i still think its very likely that it will show up again in someway even if its rather minor. the antagonist is griffith afterall and changing that to the idea of evil would just be a very bad decision. I think a good argument that it isnt canon anymore is that it should have appeared in the world merge just like every member of the godhand each got a spread.
Well, what was explicitly removed/excluded isn't canon, otherwise Miura would have left it in...so what you talking about? That's like saying all the scrapped versions of Breaking Bad scripts are cannon just bc they were written in the first place. Writers are constantly revising, the only difference is that something Miura wished to revise got published before he changed his mind. Did you not hear the man's own words?
On my wedding day, I had a friend of a friend (who I had not met prior to that moment) argue with me about whether this chapter was cannon or not. In case you weren't aware, arguing with the bride about Berserk on her wedding day is very against etiquette, and also the Idea of Evil is super gay.
My theory is that, when Guts didn’t die during the eclipse, he broke free from the plan of destiny. So theoretically, as long as he bears the mark, he exists outside of “Gods Plan”. All choices he makes go against what the plan intended, hence why he “breaches the waters surface.”
@@qi8322 the difference here is that not even the godhand, who can see the flow of causality could've anticipated skull knight's arrival to save casca and guts. guts was needed in the band of the hawk to influence griffith's decision to become femto, after that, he really serves no purpose in the godhand's greater plan of creating fantasia
i like how all of berserk is a thesis on how cosmic forces control all our fates, but the actual god controlling everything is just like "do whatever you want". causality and free will are cyclical in the berserk universe. they both exist and feed each other.
Whats worse is that the greatest evil is portrayed here as the ultimate self-actualized man, the man who has nothing he bows down to, if you forgo moral convention, if you forgo tradition, if you forgo even your friends and loved ones feelings and considerations, and if God himself bows down to YOU, then nothing you can do is wrong, everything you do right, no matter what it is, no matter the consequences, no matter the qualms, what ultimately matters is your ego winning over all.
When I first read Berserk, I read it online, then when buying the physical copys, I realized that that chapter wasn't in it... I was confused... And after finding out why it wasn't I became sad That chapter was and probably still is my favourite chapter in Berserk.
The evil god incarnate and the imagery itself are super cool IDEAS, but they evoke determinism/fate, which is a terrible thing from a writing perspective. Humans live as if we have free will, as if every human action was/is a CONSCIOUS CHOICE, whether or not that's actually true, so we get concepts like -- giving credit, blame, a criminal justice system, etc. This weakens a story bc it detracts from suspense, tension, drama, and conflict. How could I be sad for/angry at a protagonist when they fail if the idea of one's own choices have great consequences is eliminate? (I'm thinking about the Red Wedding, and how Robb Stark essentially got himself and his men killed, ultimately, by not honoring his word). How could I be excited for a protagonist when they're victorious if their victory was meant to be, not bc of their choice to work hard and their will? There's a lot of evidence to suggest we live in a deterministic universe, it's just that there are so many variables in this universe that there is no computer w/ enough computing power to input those variables and accurately predict the future, except maybe the universe itself (for example, meteorological forecast tech can only predict the near future bc the sheer number of climate variables on top of things like atmospheric turbulent flow makes weather so fu*king hard to predict, requiring the greatest super computers). But in a story where determinism is directly asserted, the author IS that super computer, deciding the fate of every character, rather than maintaining this illusion (Illusion or reality? It's debatable) that we're following people who could plausibly exist and made certain DECISIONS that the author communicates to readers/viewers narratively, and in so doing, eliminate all tension/suspense. Obviously me saying this doesn't negate how you FEEL, I'm just throwing in my two cents. Peace.
My first exposure to Berserk was when I got an almost free comic magazine from a flea market. Funny, it was the Idea of Evil chapter. Out of all random comics inside, the one that stick with me most was this exact Berserk chapter. The dialog, theme and visual was so profound, too profound even, for a ten years old me. Despite know nothing of this comic, I instinctively know that this giant heart thing must be the final boss, one that will probably ended with the heroes died fighting it.
I think what SkullKnight meant by saying that guts has denied fate once making him invulnerable to be fated. Cause Guts defied Death as a Baby, the 100 men slaughter in one night, or every time he is in battle he has some how use his will to live to defy fate. Guts is the living personification of defiance. Maybe Guts has a Power that was secretly unknown to everyone. Like a prophecy that a child born from death will defy God's will. similar to how Macbeth would be slain by a man not born from natural means. Macduff was born from and i quote "ripped from my mother's womb" this is but a hypothesis to a great story.
Maybe the idea of evil, deep down, considers Gutz's revenge and counts/represents it as an essential but currently meaningless droplet in the flow of causality. Currently meaningless, but still present. Just as a despicable individual who is conscious of his/her own condemnable actions, the Idea of Evil represents and cristalizes what other humans crave for. Maybe humanity, in all of its ambitions and lustful desires, also wishes for its own demise. As a nuclear reaction or as a domino piece, maybe this small felling is what Guts essentially represents. He is a struggler, Skull Knight another, all of them droplets in the flow of causality, building up to a reaction.
7:45 The sad thing is that both Guts and Skull Knight might think they're above causality, but SK's mistake on Ganishka (inadvertently doing exactly what the God Hand wanted) and Guts' and Casca's presence at the Tower of Conviction, which is the entire reason the Incarnation Ceremony could happen in the first place, proves they too are just pawns.
IMHO, the very concept of the Idea of Evil is so brilliant that I really want it to be cannon. On the other hand, if this thing is the real antagonist of Berserk, I simply can't imagine a scenario where Gutts and/or the SK will be able to defeat it once and for all. Anyways... thanks for sharing your video!
The implications of the Idea are really fascinating. It’s evil nature, as well as the conduct of the god hand, are reflections of man’s unconscious will. That suggests that if the humans of the berserk world were less loathe some, they could’ve possibly conceived a benevolent god or gods like those spoken of in real world religions. Maybe that’s still a possibility. Like the berserk world collectively letting go of the dark side
i always interpreted skull knights words as describing guts as outside of fate, the one person whos like that because he was not supposed to survive his birth and his story was never pre written for himself, hence why he had such a large effect on griffith as he was the oppisate, but it was not enough to keep griffith from ascending tho it may prove its possible for guts to kill him
Weird, my copy of volume 13 just came in the mail today and was surprised to see this chapter missing. Hop on youtube a few hours later and here we are...... Something something causality....
It’s so sad we may never see the end of great mangas like berserk and hunter x Hunter I’m 31 and all I can do is hope but soon as hiatus starts it basically means they don’t give a shit about it anymore just my opinion
i wish all of you would understand how much i adore BERSERK it is like a religion to me same as Castlevania but, is impossible to describe such deep epic emotions
Since Fart-Heart said to Griffith, you do you, it seems like it is only a scapegoat. "It" arranges fate, but "it" is a creation of mankind to reason existence. So, even if it takes credit of making events follow their course, the will to make these events come true is originated by mankind, which is in turn only the collective of very defined and individual people. I think. Not sure I'm presenting what I'm thinking properly.
Not necessarily, at least not yet. Berserk’s world is much too dark for that to exist currently. I believe the Idea of Evil is to eventually create OR raise the Idea of Good to the same level, bringing balance to the berserk world
Miura's exclusion of this chapter is a testament to his writing chops. The inclusion of this evil god incarnate and that entire segment evoke determinism/fate, which is a terrible thing from a writing perspective. Human live as if we have free will, as if every human action was/is a CONSCIOUS CHOICE, whether or not that's actually true, so we get concepts like -- giving credit, blame, a criminal justice system, etc. This weakens a story bc it detracts from suspense, tension, drama, and conflict. How could I be sad for/angry at a protagonist when they fail if the idea of one's own choices have great consequences is eliminate? (I'm thinking about the Red Wedding, and how Robb Stark essentially got himself and his men killed, ultimately, by not honoring his word). How could I be excited for a protagonist when they're victorious if their victory was meant to be, not bc of their choice to work hard and their will? There's a lot of evidence to suggest we live in a deterministic universe, it's just that there are so many variables in this universe that there is no computer w/ enough computing power to input those variables and accurately predict the future, except maybe the universe itself (for example, meteorological forecast tech can only predict the near future bc the sheer number of climate variables on top of things like atmospheric turbulent flow makes weather so fu*king hard to predict, requiring the greatest super computers). But in a story where determinism is directly asserted, the author IS that super computer, deciding the fate of every character, rather than maintaining this illusion (Illusion or reality? It's debatable) that we're following people who could plausibly exist and made certain DECISIONS that the author communicates to readers/viewers narratively, and in so doing, eliminate all tension/suspense. Obviously me saying this doesn't negate how anyone's personal FEELINGS about this story segment being included and/or excluded, I'm just throwing in my two cents. Peace.
IoE is still canon, during the eclipse Void mentioned "the ungodly God" and "the God born of man", it also physically appeared in the last page of chapter 82. Later after conviction Flora mentioned that the Godhand work for something that lurks deep within the astral world.
At its core, Guts story is just a rehash of the "Chosen One" again. He exist in and outside the real world, whatever that is. He can bend his reality to his will, though unconciouslly and with limitations. In fits of rage, pure unbridled emotion.
Flora later explains that the way events occur is like a spiral. Skull Knight agrees. Or at least, that's their interpretation. So not a true circle/cycle, rather a repetition of broader themes/major events. Perhaps the Idea tries to enforce a cycle, but people's individual wills push back, and that's what makes it a spiral. My only problem is: if the Idea acts in accordance with what people want, it sounds like its existence is redundant. Aren't people enough to bring their own wills to fruition, subconscious or not? I guess I'm interpreting it too realistically lol
It's not so much that it's redundant. People want a REASON as to why things go according to their plans, and the Idea of Evil serves as that reason, whether anyone is aware of it or not. It ultimately gives a sense of purpose to their will and actions
@@Whodjathink That's why I said I'm approaching it too realistically. Because willing things into existence is definitely a fantasy element as far as I'm aware
I've always considered that The Idea of Evil was simply giving mankind an excuse, so they can be "themselves". That's why it represents "bad things". People use morals, rules, laws, to avoid bad behaviors. They hide their "evil side", their "true nature" deep within them, so they can considere themselves as good people. So, when they are doing bad things, to have no contradiction with their lie, they say that "they had to", "they were forced to", or that it's fate. The Idea of evil is that excuse: He follows the will of humans, so they can blame his doing without blaming themself. And when they take consciousness of something bad they've done and can't find an excuse to have done it, they simply ask for forgivness to this same "God". Aslo, this is (imo) why it is called "the idea of evil". As he is an idea, he has been born from something, from humanity. He is the idea of evil that humans are blaming for everything bad that is happening to them. It doesn't mean that he is the evil. He is some kind of an idol. And this is why it is genius: Because this mean that people are actully blaming or asking forgivness to a God they've created with their will and desires. Some people are killing in the name of God, some people are praying him... While it's just a concept, a representation.. An Idea. Their idea. People are the slaves of their own will in a way. And this is why Guts is not enslaved by fate, because he is an actor of his life, he follows his will without being enslaved to it, with no idea of "good" or "evil" in mind: He does what he wants.
I think that gutts isn't being completely controlled by the idea of evil because he was still influenced by the godhand's mere presence whom have free will.He is still apart of he idea of evil plan especially after being branded but he can still choose what road he wants to go on whether it is the road designed by the idea of evil or a road of his own choosing because after all he still survived the eclipse even though that wasn't planed unless the idea of evil wanted gutts to survive so that he could probably kill femto and the other four later down the road but that is a long stretch.
I love this channel and missed this video. I do believe the IoE is canon however its oversight of Guts’ is what separates Guts’ from Causality. One thing about the IoE is that it has to have an opposing power as all of the negative energy of mankind created it so too must be said about the positive energy but how to specify that. I have a general idea of it and Guts’ is manifested from that power which is why he can go against Causality and even his own BoD. So much to cover and be said on this topic that I don’t want to reveal as it is my own head canon and others may not understand it
Also Guts could have not lived and died from his birth and all of what happened in the manga with its events could have happened, with even more success for Griffith in subverting his plans
To the OP, keep in mind that the Godhand themselves were manipulating Griffith's vulnerability for him to join them, so I wouldn't take absolutely everything at face value, even the Idea of Evil being the final arbiter of fate. That's also kind of the point of Guts's journey, to fight in the face of inevitability rather than reigning yourself to it.
I buy that the plans of the Idea of Evil can be at least somewhat subverted by individuals such as Guts, the Skull Knight, and the Count. However, all of these examples seem to come from feasts after a behelit is invoked.
I always thought it was canon and personally I think I’d like it to return, maybe with some minor retcons to make it seem less definite. My take on it was that the IOE was not entirely honest to griffith that his power wasn’t as absolute as he claims it to be, afterall someone like guts should have never existed otherwise, the brand of sacrifice isn’t something one is meant to survive. I think IOE’s existence as god works really well in the conviction arc as it conveys a level of irony that the holy see have faith in a god that exists only to bring forth misery. That no matter how much they pray to god to deliver them from evil, god merely delivers evil to them.
I wonder if Mr Miura still wants this thing as endboss, maybe same entity but different design. Or this was just a shape it chose at the moment . also I think every reader is just hoping for guts and skull knight to do something that would cause a change in destiny, something that will make the smug God Hand sweat. As void likes to take comfort that everything happens within the bounds of causality
Looking for the "what drives it" factor in this story between predetermination and causality may be the wrong move. I think the story constantly oscillates between the two modes, another instance of duality in the in the story; similar to previous concepts in the story. Black and white, good and evil, action and aloofness, predetermination and causality, skull night and void, Griffith and Guts. Maybe even duality and singularity if the idea of evil is the one true god. I'm excited for the end of berserk.
Notice how the idea of evil came after the creation of the world it exists in. That could mean that behind this human god is a truer god, that created the humans and everything else, before the idea of evil existed. Which would also mean that we necessarily cant trust in what it says, even if its canon. And i also think that the mythical creatures that were introduced later into the story, are also older than the idea of evil itself, and made by the original creator. Which begs the question how powerfull is the idea of evil, is it powerfull enough to control reality in a more profound way than the original creator(if he may exist?) For me, the idea of evil is and stays canon, its just a idea, too expressive to be discarded. And its highly interpretable existence that is more ideological makes it also somewhat immune to the canon question
Because as the whole idea of the idea of evil is that it is a human born idea. And the fact that this is actually its condition in real life as well, makes the it as that concept more real, than the rest of the story
I'm glad someone understands this, during the trolls invasion Schierke told the village priest that both magick and the holy see doctrine are originally based on the same God
The thing is if the idea of evil exists within the berserk universe it technically becomes “the big bad” so then guts would have to find a way to destroy it and I think meura wants to end the story on destroying the god hand,that’s if he ever does end the story
I discovered a while back that everyone is a slave to causality. It's like the matrix reloaded (I know but stay with me) no was the one but was only in a higher level of control created for the rebellious types. If not for guts and and skull knight griffith couldn't have achieved his dreams and become a member of the god hand or be reincarnated.
I like the idea that maybe, yes, causality is controlling it all, but, as it seems, the collective and powerful enough belief reinforced by the will of many or will of one particularly mentally strong individual can somehow manipulate happenings in reality in the world of berserk to some degree. I feel that guts has made it this far not by a massive sword… enchanted armor… or raw strength, but by sheer will. He can defy causality because in terms of will he can “struggle” against the collective will of all other beings. He was born to die as a waste of air, but he came through, he was raised in a brutal and uncaring environment as a child, but he came through, all these times one thing after another so many times he should be dead and yet… he came through. Even after serving his purpose to Griffith, he fought. And won. Maybe he is the one fish jumping out of the river of causality, the one being to defy the idea of evil.
I think Miura backpedaled on this aspect because he realized the implications and explanations he would have to do- and wasn't exactly ready for that. Guts fairly struggles at grander plots and themes since it's focus is about dark fantasy grit and dirt. While something more akin to Full Metal was built on a huge notion and revisits it. To reveal it after so long I think Miura realized reaaaal fast he wasn't ready for something like that. Also funny enough I always assumed this god was false~ as it was the delusional idea of a god by Griffeth and how the Godhand are born to their own evil. Though it would've also been interesting to see Miura tackle this concept in their universe something similar to 40K but in which humanity is somewhat doomed unless they break the cycle of superstitions and inability to succumb their inner demons- Guts would then somewhat represent the savior of humanity with the armor and the Black wolf-.
There’s another comment I left here, but I can safely say that from this Idea(hehe). I think the better way to look at the Idea is more literal than it seems. It can only manipulate humanity to do bad, but it is still just a concept made by humans. Hence, change and paradox will equivalent to its flesh and bones. Guts is just that, as a metaphor, he exists to contradict a world of evil by exposing dark virtues. He’s not fully exempt from evil himself. He’s just more likely to churn a ‘better’ outcome from it.
Someone may have commented on this but I'm finding a connection between this godlike entity and that of Hellraiser's Leviathan. Miura was deeply inspired by Hellraiser when formulating the Godhand. Just a thought!
The idea of evil is focused on negative thoughts and emotions. When guts acts with intentions other then revenge he is able to break the surface of the”water” skull knight is fixated on revenge fueled by his hatred of the god hand so he is stuck in causality’s effect. Think when he attacked void or when he caused the world to merge with the astral plain his intentions fell inline with the idea of evil. Whenever a character in berserk does thing that don’t fall inline with the idea of evil they are no longer affected by causality at that moment in time. Example would be the prostitute surviving in a barrel her intentions were to save others out of care and love so for that moment she was not affected by casualty.
I feel by the logic of what the idea of evil said there should be another god as well born from the other side of humanity. Much like the duality of the emperor and the chaos gods in 40k. On a side note about fate Guts is also based some what off of Corum who was from the eternal champion saga. Corum was created to cheat fate and kill the gods in it.
I remember the dialogue of George Herbert's novel DUNE. Every plan has another plan in it. Plan within plan. If all his plans are formulated and his providence must be fulfilled only in it, the god is already bound to his own absoluteness. In other words, this god is not a true god but a being defined by human ideals. The prescribed God is an idea, not a being. Therefore, this god is a suitable god in the world of Berserk where each other's ideals collide.
A function I feel The Idea of Evil as a "character" would accomplish is that it would ground the God Hand ot some extend as long as it exists as the limit of the world, or as a force of nature. It existing makes the God Hand only a dent on their own grand scheme and as such, expendable. The God of the Abyss exists as such because it is a being that has no way of having his nature and purpose go unfulfilled or challenged and can't be killed, but at the same time it has the ability of disposing of Angels the same way they do to apostles. I think that it even could even use Guts or the Skull Knight to get rid of them (The God Hand) when it doesn't need them anymore, give the story closure and start writing a new one. Who knows, maybe the next Griffith will be a pseudo Ubermensch megarich politician/CEO, and the one after that, a messiah-complexed supercomputer.
Man i can totally foresee myura bringing back "the idea of evil"back at some point in the end just to mindblow the fans that glimpsed this forbidden chapter bfore the cut
@@Shrkek it does exists. Godhand acts as pawns of IoE. It probably created behelits too. If IoE did not exist how would someone become Godhand in the first place?
@@Shrkek You can find a lot of theories and answers how IoE was created. I know but I'm not a good story teller so I'll leave it to the experts. I'd advice you to join Berserk Discord and look at SK.net if you still didn't.
it exists, but if miura ever talks about it again, it will probably be different from the chapter, the godhand obviously work for something or someone, which is probably the IoE, whoever, it was way too early to drop that lore bomb, so he basically ignores the existance of that chapter
I think Berserk's world mostly follows fatalism, you have free will but it doesn't matter. People are like pebbles in a stream, they make water flow around them but ultimately it ends up in the same place. If a person struggles enough however they're like a bolder being dropped in the stream causing it to burst it's banks and water will flow in a different direction.
So mostly in berserk the heart is evil because what ever your heart wants it's what you disier so mostly it's what you want to get in a good way or a bad way but the person with most powerful disire succeed that's how I see it
I believe much later on in the story Griffith will have a flashback where muira recreates the most important parts of this chapter in he current art style
What if causality knew Kentaro Miura will pass on before Berserk’s story is completed so the idea to have chapter 83 feature the Idea of Evil was planted in advance?
Actually I don’t feel like it really limits the story that much - more like it gives me a perspective of how Guts might eventualy overcome this “idea of god”. It’s like the Skull Knight hinted that he might be the one who can break that idea of everything being predetermined and actually take responsibility for his life actions and undestand that it kinda is his own doing not like most people just going with the flow blaming all their problems on this mystic entity that they themselves have actually managed to will into existance and that has now for real taken control of ‘em all. This might be the edge that Guts has over Griffith himself otherwise the world of Berserk feels kinda hopless which kinda is the point so its fine but honestly a very interesting chapter that I did not know was actually cut cuz I was reading the fansub version. I hope that this is cannon serves the story quite well so far I think. Thanks for the video.
ok, now I understand why the quality was worse in this chapter than the others when I read it, it was saved from the erasure that befell its past versions (wow, dramatic much?) however, here's what I think about the Idea: it says to Griffith to do what he wants... if I had to think of something, I'd say fate was only relevant prior to that point, but after Griffith reached that pivotal point in his live and the world's history, things were actually left to chance since there was no longer a need for Griffith to get where he did, for once, the one entity that controls fate said to someone to do what they wanted, right after said entity was pulling the strings that controlled people's actions... so either JUST Griffith is now free from fate or everyone from the transformation and onward is too, that's how I see things
Guts' left arm is cannon
Dude i laughed so hard
Hahahahha
Cannon af
BOOM
Underrated comment my guy lol
"You do you"
- God, 1996
Indeed
If so,
*“I want wings.”* 🤌🦅
damn god was really with the new age back in '96
God was like whatever before it was cool
My god fr 😫
"Griffith you want anything from KFC?"
I want wings.
Plot twist:
Imagine Griffith meant chicken wings but god misunderstood so all of his comrades were slaughtered.
Since Griffith wanted chicken wings we can assume he was hungry (for the pussy) so he raped Casca.
Akshay Kali this is some weird fanfiction you wrote lmao
KFC is god.
@@akshaykali7037 basically Griffith didn't do anything wrong
I read all of berserk like a year ago digitally on manga rock and the scans included this chapter, I never knew it was elusive
Same I never even knew it might not be canon
@@H20No Same.
Same
@@H20No same
I bought the manga where the chapter wasn't included. However, as Griffith starts his transformation, we still get a glimpse of the idea of evil and Griffith asks "Is that... god?" The rest of it was cut out. So it's kind of still there but more ambiguous. The main reason why Miura scrapped the chapter was because he wasn't happy with the concept of defining the idea of evil as a god because it would limit the possibilities. Maybe he'll bring it back in the last chapters and I actually hope for it because the concept behind the idea of evil is truly fascinating. But maybe Miura will keep its existence more ambiguous in the future, kinda like Skull Knight's identity and his beef with Void.
Boy, if he wanted wings, could have bought a lot of them at KFC...
or drank some redbull
Hahahaha Niiice
Bdubs
bufallo wings yes
but there's no KFC back then . . . . if only KFC is already existing back then this will never happen
I always found the idea of evil such a fascinating concept, canon or not. It kind’ve re-contextualizes things, void’s narration in the opening of every episode of the 97 episode about man having no control over his own will is assumed to be talking about Guts, but because of the IoE’s manipulation of fate to chose Griffith before he was born, voids narration is actually talking about Griffith. It’s presence adds another layer of complexity to Berserk’s already compellingly complex world building, and really speaks to the question of is man truly free from fate, causality, etc.
It is certainly interesting. I think that free will does exist in berserk, but then at the same time we have things like behelits - which will end up where they are pre-ordained to end up when the time is right. If Guts carrying the behelit this whole time is simply a function of causality and not truly his own autonomous will, then are any of his other actions necessarily different? If carrying the behelit is playing into fate, then we cannot deny the possibility that every single action he takes is playing into fate as well. The only evidence we have to say otherwise is that SK/slan have said he can breach the surface of the river of causality. Though if you think about it, a fish breaching the surface of a river is such an insignificant and meaningless act when you look at the river as a whole - truly it is negligible and completely inconsequential. Perhaps Guts does have enough free will to "breach the river's surface" - even so, he will still end up downstream at the exact same spot he'd end up if he couldn't breach the surface. If he was stated to uniquely swim against the river, that would be different. But as it is described, he can only breach its surface. Which is completely inconsequential in determining where the fish will end up and when it will end up there. So perhaps, in a practical sense, free will in berserk is truly an illusion after all. I guess that falls in line with my real-world view as well, that free will does not, and could not possibly, exist... due to the basic laws of physics, and in berserk, due to the basic laws of causality. I guess we'll see :)
" is there a difference" - Griffith (golden age) was maybe a foreshadowing towards the reveal of the idea of evil
Idea of Evil = Logical Problem of Evil
Houston I love your analysis of Guts but whose to say it’s really even Guts that’ll be the hero it may be which it’s been hinting to the moonlight boy being the key
Houston amazing analysis my dude! But I gotta ask what you mean by US not having free will thanks to physics?
Great take! My thoughts are very similar. His ability to break the surface like a fish ,if taken literally, means that he can jump put of the the flow of fate for a moment of freedom but will land straight back in it. In that sense I dont agree that his destination is the same but more that at those small moments where he breaks fate he path changes and so does the path of those around him, the eclipse being a perfect example; he was supposed to die, he breached fate to survive, which led him down a new path. I feel SK serves a similar purpose as well.
My theory is that the reason guts can subvert what Causality has pre-ordained, is because by all accounts guts should have been dead when he was born under his hanging mother's Corpse, but something happened, as vague as it may be, something happened at that moment, whether it be an inexplicable error in the Idea's part, or the Will Alone of a single human, Shisu, Gut's adopted mother, who wanted this baby to be alive. Whatever the case may be, Guts instantly became an outsider of Fate, if causality wasn't able to kill him then and there, then forever from that point will Causality no longer function the same way towards Gut's as other humans. Its like if you calculate an infinitely long math equation, and at just a single point, you enter a very minor incorrect variable, but instead of correcting it, you have to move forward with a continuing equation that just goes on and on and can't be stopped, while there is an error that stays within your calculations. Thats how I would describe it. Guts is just a very lucky Error. Another example I just thought of was Steins;Gate, Spoilers, in order for Rintaro to stop Kirisu's death, he simply had to "Trick the World into thinking Kirisu was dead", by this same logic, a baby born into a puddle of gunk and blood under his own mother hanging by a noose, would definitely *seem* dead. The World, The Idea, thought so too, but it was just, tricked.
This is it
Man, I love your idea of this. Especially how your relate it to 'tricking the world' from steins gate.
I also feel like if you can stay around guts and not die that throws fate even more out of the loop. Guts and his friends are essentially the idea of hope.
I think this is a good way to view it, but if wasn't for guts, Griffith wouldn't become Femto, later wouldn't make a physical form and wouldn't trick Skull Knight to merge the astral and mortal planes, I think the IoE don't orchestrate everything, just big influential events and the things needed to this happen, in the case of Guts, something really didn't came out as it should, but easily the destiny is rewritten now making him part of what will happen, just think now, without Guts, Femto wouldn't exists, the IoE used Guts, and used Skull Knight too, even if he being the embodiement of the acting against causality
Ítalo Lucena Vaz Ya that’s the part that bothers me the most. If I had to come up with an argument that fits it into my theory though, I’d say it’s like this. Yes, the reason Griffith became Femto is because Gut’s left him. If Guts hadn’t left though, it’s fairly possible Griffith wouldn’t go down the Femto Road. In other words, Guts influence against causality has indeed affected Griffith, but only for the time he was able to directly influence him, as a close companion on the battlefield. With guts gone, the influence is gone, Causality is able to resume as it should for Griffith without an outside force against it, and it gets to a point of no turning back where even if Guts re entered the picture, i.e. coming back to save Griffith and all, he wouldn’t be able to stop him, no matter what, his influence can only do so much in so little time. Griffith had been far too gone at that point.
But even with that theoretical argument, it feels like there would be a paradox in space time or two, but I guess that’s a given when arguing about the machinations of reality itself within the Berserk world...
Still canon until something is written that contradicts it
Nihoolious Agreed. Especially since Miura practically included it when Flora referenced something deeper in the abyss that the Godhand adhere to, its mentioned a couple more times too iirc
i get where this is coming from but no contradictions doesnt prove its existence. i still think its very likely that it will show up again in someway even if its rather minor. the antagonist is griffith afterall and changing that to the idea of evil would just be a very bad decision.
I think a good argument that it isnt canon anymore is that it should have appeared in the world merge just like every member of the godhand each got a spread.
Gassen the idea of evil is still a thing. Miura just removed that chapter since he thought it revealed way too much about the godhand
@@biscuitboy1476 he said just like this video stated that he isnt sure if it will come again or not....
Well, what was explicitly removed/excluded isn't canon, otherwise Miura would have left it in...so what you talking about? That's like saying all the scrapped versions of Breaking Bad scripts are cannon just bc they were written in the first place. Writers are constantly revising, the only difference is that something Miura wished to revise got published before he changed his mind. Did you not hear the man's own words?
On my wedding day, I had a friend of a friend (who I had not met prior to that moment) argue with me about whether this chapter was cannon or not. In case you weren't aware, arguing with the bride about Berserk on her wedding day is very against etiquette, and also the Idea of Evil is super gay.
Nah I agree with the friend of a friend
That person you argued with is proof that evil is super gay and real.
No...Arguing about anime and manga on your wedding day is super gay. There is a time and place for everything. Your friend is a massive virgin.
Lol i want this on my wedding way. Gay or not.
People still use “gay” as synonymous for “lame?” Is this 2006? Are we all back in middle school?
Idea of Evil gave Griffith bat-like wings instead of the feathery bird-like ones he probably always wanted. The idea of Evil is so..evil.
Ironically bats are chill and friendly lil guys while falcons and similar birds are menaces with them claws
Why would a godlike entity ask him in this case? It seems his new shell is made to serve his desires, so it's probably all on femto
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
I really thought you were just complimenting Miura before I saw the Futurama clip
My theory is that, when Guts didn’t die during the eclipse, he broke free from the plan of destiny. So theoretically, as long as he bears the mark, he exists outside of “Gods Plan”. All choices he makes go against what the plan intended, hence why he “breaches the waters surface.”
I thought that he was that way from the beginning, he was never meant to be alive. Remember how he was born?
@@qi8322 the difference here is that not even the godhand, who can see the flow of causality could've anticipated skull knight's arrival to save casca and guts. guts was needed in the band of the hawk to influence griffith's decision to become femto, after that, he really serves no purpose in the godhand's greater plan of creating fantasia
idea of evil simply seems to be metaphor for a part of the collective unconscious
its an egreggor
Sums it up pretty well in a nutshell
yeah...and I think it grew stronger with the falconia arc faith in griffith, but always can be turned around I think
i like how all of berserk is a thesis on how cosmic forces control all our fates, but the actual god controlling everything is just like "do whatever you want". causality and free will are cyclical in the berserk universe. they both exist and feed each other.
Well said
Whats worse is that the greatest evil is portrayed here as the ultimate self-actualized man, the man who has nothing he bows down to, if you forgo moral convention, if you forgo tradition, if you forgo even your friends and loved ones feelings and considerations, and if God himself bows down to YOU, then nothing you can do is wrong, everything you do right, no matter what it is, no matter the consequences, no matter the qualms, what ultimately matters is your ego winning over all.
> asks for Wings
> Becomes a Bootleg Batman
It was never forgotten this chapter will always be in our hearts
Oh wait!
Zing!
“The 90s must have been a great time to be alive.”
Me: this kids never had to use a 56k modem.
I can still remember the sound it made lol
The way you say "Hiatus" sounds like a disease you could potentially catch. "Honey, dont touch that man. You could catch the hiatus."
Symptoms include excessively playing IDOLM@STER
Miura dies and Druckmann starts writing Berserk
Guts: I forgive you, Griffith
wooosh
damn
When I first read Berserk,
I read it online,
then when buying the physical copys,
I realized that that chapter wasn't in it...
I was confused...
And after finding out why it wasn't
I became sad
That chapter was and probably still is my favourite chapter in Berserk.
The evil god incarnate and the imagery itself are super cool IDEAS, but they evoke determinism/fate, which is a terrible thing from a writing perspective. Humans live as if we have free will, as if every human action was/is a CONSCIOUS CHOICE, whether or not that's actually true, so we get concepts like -- giving credit, blame, a criminal justice system, etc. This weakens a story bc it detracts from suspense, tension, drama, and conflict. How could I be sad for/angry at a protagonist when they fail if the idea of one's own choices have great consequences is eliminate? (I'm thinking about the Red Wedding, and how Robb Stark essentially got himself and his men killed, ultimately, by not honoring his word). How could I be excited for a protagonist when they're victorious if their victory was meant to be, not bc of their choice to work hard and their will?
There's a lot of evidence to suggest we live in a deterministic universe, it's just that there are so many variables in this universe that there is no computer w/ enough computing power to input those variables and accurately predict the future, except maybe the universe itself (for example, meteorological forecast tech can only predict the near future bc the sheer number of climate variables on top of things like atmospheric turbulent flow makes weather so fu*king hard to predict, requiring the greatest super computers). But in a story where determinism is directly asserted, the author IS that super computer, deciding the fate of every character, rather than maintaining this illusion (Illusion or reality? It's debatable) that we're following people who could plausibly exist and made certain DECISIONS that the author communicates to readers/viewers narratively, and in so doing, eliminate all tension/suspense.
Obviously me saying this doesn't negate how you FEEL, I'm just throwing in my two cents. Peace.
My first exposure to Berserk was when I got an almost free comic magazine from a flea market. Funny, it was the Idea of Evil chapter. Out of all random comics inside, the one that stick with me most was this exact Berserk chapter. The dialog, theme and visual was so profound, too profound even, for a ten years old me. Despite know nothing of this comic, I instinctively know that this giant heart thing must be the final boss, one that will probably ended with the heroes died fighting it.
Donovan is the true hero for making Guts who he is. Had Donovan not been all up in Guts' guts, Guts never would've been as strong.
Rape is not funny dude, grow up.
@@LamboJ20 😂😂
LamboJ20 😂😂😂😂
I think what SkullKnight meant by saying that guts has denied fate once making him invulnerable to be fated. Cause Guts defied Death as a Baby, the 100 men slaughter in one night, or every time he is in battle he has some how use his will to live to defy fate. Guts is the living personification of defiance. Maybe Guts has a Power that was secretly unknown to everyone. Like a prophecy that a child born from death will defy God's will. similar to how Macbeth would be slain by a man not born from natural means. Macduff was born from and i quote "ripped from my mother's womb" this is but a hypothesis to a great story.
Maybe the idea of evil, deep down, considers Gutz's revenge and counts/represents it as an essential but currently meaningless droplet in the flow of causality. Currently meaningless, but still present. Just as a despicable individual who is conscious of his/her own condemnable actions, the Idea of Evil represents and cristalizes what other humans crave for. Maybe humanity, in all of its ambitions and lustful desires, also wishes for its own demise. As a nuclear reaction or as a domino piece, maybe this small felling is what Guts essentially represents. He is a struggler, Skull Knight another, all of them droplets in the flow of causality, building up to a reaction.
7:45
The sad thing is that both Guts and Skull Knight might think they're above causality, but SK's mistake on Ganishka (inadvertently doing exactly what the God Hand wanted) and Guts' and Casca's presence at the Tower of Conviction, which is the entire reason the Incarnation Ceremony could happen in the first place, proves they too are just pawns.
That "woooooosshhhhh" touched me in the right places
I just hope we can all see the end of Berserk before we die.
Hoping & praying for the author's good health .
Wym is he sick
he already made the end.
Duranki will end first
Bad news, folks...
And now he's dead :(
Diggin the new vids, man 💕
- I want...wings.
WHEEEEEESHHHHH
lol wtf was that
lol youre so young, imagine being born in 1996 xD
comment posted by 1995-gang
I think that Miura Wanted to say: in a world where you can decide your destiny, the actual evil would be to steal the freedom of act.
You know when you say it like that, it does make hiatus sound like some sort of terminal disease.
"You do you" -- this is exactly what those "Newage" masters always told in their books..... Because we are all "god", god explores itself through us
IMHO, the very concept of the Idea of Evil is so brilliant that I really want it to be cannon. On the other hand, if this thing is the real antagonist of Berserk, I simply can't imagine a scenario where Gutts and/or the SK will be able to defeat it once and for all.
Anyways... thanks for sharing your video!
Sword of resonance is the single answer.
If there is an idea of evil,shouldn't there be an "idea of good"?
The implications of the Idea are really fascinating. It’s evil nature, as well as the conduct of the god hand, are reflections of man’s unconscious will. That suggests that if the humans of the berserk world were less loathe some, they could’ve possibly conceived a benevolent god or gods like those spoken of in real world religions. Maybe that’s still a possibility. Like the berserk world collectively letting go of the dark side
I just want you to summarize every chapter like this~ with that much content to produce you might get through a whole hiatus~
Game Theory: Zegodhand is Skull Knight and GamerGuyGames is Guts
Who is the masked man?
@@kostajovanovic3711Puck
i always interpreted skull knights words as describing guts as outside of fate, the one person whos like that because he was not supposed to survive his birth and his story was never pre written for himself, hence why he had such a large effect on griffith as he was the oppisate, but it was not enough to keep griffith from ascending tho it may prove its possible for guts to kill him
I was thinking "damn that guy's voice reminds me of zegodhand" little did I know you were the same person, glad i'm back dude :)
Weird, my copy of volume 13 just came in the mail today and was surprised to see this chapter missing. Hop on youtube a few hours later and here we are...... Something something causality....
I just discovered this chapter and It is very interesting.
It is maybe not perfect but it is (again) very interesting and makes a lot of sense.
It’s so sad we may never see the end of great mangas like berserk and hunter x Hunter I’m 31 and all I can do is hope but soon as hiatus starts it basically means they don’t give a shit about it anymore just my opinion
Something that came to me recently: the Idea of Evil is the Heart of Darkness, quite literally.
THIS IS STILL CANON BABY
Born just in time to be stuck in a hiatus
Great video bruh
i wish all of you would understand how much i adore BERSERK
it is like a religion to me
same as Castlevania
but, is impossible to describe such deep epic emotions
Since Fart-Heart said to Griffith, you do you, it seems like it is only a scapegoat. "It" arranges fate, but "it" is a creation of mankind to reason existence. So, even if it takes credit of making events follow their course, the will to make these events come true is originated by mankind, which is in turn only the collective of very defined and individual people. I think.
Not sure I'm presenting what I'm thinking properly.
God it that you? It's me Guts and Imma about to whoop Griffith's ass
The existence of The Idea Of Evil means there must exist The Idea Of Good.
Not necessarily, at least not yet. Berserk’s world is much too dark for that to exist currently. I believe the Idea of Evil is to eventually create OR raise the Idea of Good to the same level, bringing balance to the berserk world
This chapter confused me to oblivion, but this video saved my brain from dying
Thanks for the info dad
An album that is a telling of Ian going through his own God of the Abyss 2 chapter 83 of Berserk would be neat.
I had no clue that that part got cut out!!! When did they start doing that?
Miura's exclusion of this chapter is a testament to his writing chops. The inclusion of this evil god incarnate and that entire segment evoke determinism/fate, which is a terrible thing from a writing perspective. Human live as if we have free will, as if every human action was/is a CONSCIOUS CHOICE, whether or not that's actually true, so we get concepts like -- giving credit, blame, a criminal justice system, etc. This weakens a story bc it detracts from suspense, tension, drama, and conflict. How could I be sad for/angry at a protagonist when they fail if the idea of one's own choices have great consequences is eliminate? (I'm thinking about the Red Wedding, and how Robb Stark essentially got himself and his men killed, ultimately, by not honoring his word). How could I be excited for a protagonist when they're victorious if their victory was meant to be, not bc of their choice to work hard and their will?
There's a lot of evidence to suggest we live in a deterministic universe, it's just that there are so many variables in this universe that there is no computer w/ enough computing power to input those variables and accurately predict the future, except maybe the universe itself (for example, meteorological forecast tech can only predict the near future bc the sheer number of climate variables on top of things like atmospheric turbulent flow makes weather so fu*king hard to predict, requiring the greatest super computers). But in a story where determinism is directly asserted, the author IS that super computer, deciding the fate of every character, rather than maintaining this illusion (Illusion or reality? It's debatable) that we're following people who could plausibly exist and made certain DECISIONS that the author communicates to readers/viewers narratively, and in so doing, eliminate all tension/suspense.
Obviously me saying this doesn't negate how anyone's personal FEELINGS about this story segment being included and/or excluded, I'm just throwing in my two cents. Peace.
IoE is still canon, during the eclipse Void mentioned "the ungodly God" and "the God born of man", it also physically appeared in the last page of chapter 82. Later after conviction Flora mentioned that the Godhand work for something that lurks deep within the astral world.
Still waiting on Bezelk Mr.Zegodhand. Give it back to us.
At its core, Guts story is just a rehash of the "Chosen One" again. He exist in and outside the real world, whatever that is. He can bend his reality to his will, though unconciouslly and with limitations. In fits of rage, pure unbridled emotion.
Flora later explains that the way events occur is like a spiral. Skull Knight agrees. Or at least, that's their interpretation. So not a true circle/cycle, rather a repetition of broader themes/major events. Perhaps the Idea tries to enforce a cycle, but people's individual wills push back, and that's what makes it a spiral. My only problem is: if the Idea acts in accordance with what people want, it sounds like its existence is redundant. Aren't people enough to bring their own wills to fruition, subconscious or not? I guess I'm interpreting it too realistically lol
It's not so much that it's redundant. People want a REASON as to why things go according to their plans, and the Idea of Evil serves as that reason, whether anyone is aware of it or not. It ultimately gives a sense of purpose to their will and actions
@@Whodjathink That's why I said I'm approaching it too realistically. Because willing things into existence is definitely a fantasy element as far as I'm aware
I've always considered that The Idea of Evil was simply giving mankind an excuse, so they can be "themselves".
That's why it represents "bad things". People use morals, rules, laws, to avoid bad behaviors. They hide their "evil side", their "true nature" deep within them, so they can considere themselves as good people.
So, when they are doing bad things, to have no contradiction with their lie, they say that "they had to", "they were forced to", or that it's fate.
The Idea of evil is that excuse: He follows the will of humans, so they can blame his doing without blaming themself.
And when they take consciousness of something bad they've done and can't find an excuse to have done it, they simply ask for forgivness to this same "God".
Aslo, this is (imo) why it is called "the idea of evil". As he is an idea, he has been born from something, from humanity. He is the idea of evil that humans are blaming for everything bad that is happening to them.
It doesn't mean that he is the evil. He is some kind of an idol.
And this is why it is genius: Because this mean that people are actully blaming or asking forgivness to a God they've created with their will and desires. Some people are killing in the name of God, some people are praying him...
While it's just a concept, a representation.. An Idea. Their idea.
People are the slaves of their own will in a way. And this is why Guts is not enslaved by fate, because he is an actor of his life, he follows his will without being enslaved to it, with no idea of "good" or "evil" in mind: He does what he wants.
@@-v0n- very well said
I think that gutts isn't being completely controlled by the idea of evil because he was still influenced by the godhand's mere presence whom have free will.He is still apart of he idea of evil plan especially after being branded but he can still choose what road he wants to go on whether it is the road designed by the idea of evil or a road of his own choosing because after all he still survived the eclipse even though that wasn't planed unless the idea of evil wanted gutts to survive so that he could probably kill femto and the other four later down the road but that is a long stretch.
I love this channel and missed this video.
I do believe the IoE is canon however its oversight of Guts’ is what separates Guts’ from Causality. One thing about the IoE is that it has to have an opposing power as all of the negative energy of mankind created it so too must be said about the positive energy but how to specify that. I have a general idea of it and Guts’ is manifested from that power which is why he can go against Causality and even his own BoD.
So much to cover and be said on this topic that I don’t want to reveal as it is my own head canon and others may not understand it
Also Guts could have not lived and died from his birth and all of what happened in the manga with its events could have happened, with even more success for Griffith in subverting his plans
To the OP, keep in mind that the Godhand themselves were manipulating Griffith's vulnerability for him to join them, so I wouldn't take absolutely everything at face value, even the Idea of Evil being the final arbiter of fate. That's also kind of the point of Guts's journey, to fight in the face of inevitability rather than reigning yourself to it.
I buy that the plans of the Idea of Evil can be at least somewhat subverted by individuals such as Guts, the Skull Knight, and the Count. However, all of these examples seem to come from feasts after a behelit is invoked.
I always thought it was canon and personally I think I’d like it to return, maybe with some minor retcons to make it seem less definite. My take on it was that the IOE was not entirely honest to griffith that his power wasn’t as absolute as he claims it to be, afterall someone like guts should have never existed otherwise, the brand of sacrifice isn’t something one is meant to survive. I think IOE’s existence as god works really well in the conviction arc as it conveys a level of irony that the holy see have faith in a god that exists only to bring forth misery. That no matter how much they pray to god to deliver them from evil, god merely delivers evil to them.
Ever notice that The Idea of Evil and the heart of the Sea God are covered in eyes. Is there a connection between the two?
So they can see you better deary
I mean they are both gods. Maybe this is just a common trait of gods.
I wonder if Mr Miura still wants this thing as endboss, maybe same entity but different design. Or this was just a shape it chose at the moment .
also I think every reader is just hoping for guts and skull knight to do something that would cause a change in destiny, something that will make the smug God Hand sweat.
As void likes to take comfort that everything happens within the bounds of causality
Remember 1997 anime opening ? Thats answers the questions this guy arose
whoa just read that chapter. thanks for making me aware.
Looking for the "what drives it" factor in this story between predetermination and causality may be the wrong move. I think the story constantly oscillates between the two modes, another instance of duality in the in the story; similar to previous concepts in the story. Black and white, good and evil, action and aloofness, predetermination and causality, skull night and void, Griffith and Guts. Maybe even duality and singularity if the idea of evil is the one true god. I'm excited for the end of berserk.
Video suggestion: characters who are in manga or chapters/storylines that don’t appear in anime
Notice how the idea of evil came after the creation of the world it exists in.
That could mean that behind this human god is a truer god, that created the humans and everything else, before the idea of evil existed.
Which would also mean that we necessarily cant trust in what it says, even if its canon.
And i also think that the mythical creatures that were introduced later into the story, are also older than the idea of evil itself, and made by the original creator.
Which begs the question how powerfull is the idea of evil, is it powerfull enough to control reality in a more profound way than the original creator(if he may exist?)
For me, the idea of evil is and stays canon, its just a idea, too expressive to be discarded.
And its highly interpretable existence that is more ideological makes it also somewhat immune to the canon question
Because as the whole idea of the idea of evil is that it is a human born idea.
And the fact that this is actually its condition in real life as well, makes the it as that concept more real, than the rest of the story
I'm glad someone understands this, during the trolls invasion Schierke told the village priest that both magick and the holy see doctrine are originally based on the same God
I'm counting this as a new chapter dropping
The thing is if the idea of evil exists within the berserk universe it technically becomes “the big bad” so then guts would have to find a way to destroy it and I think meura wants to end the story on destroying the god hand,that’s if he ever does end the story
Turns out that the real villain of berserk is.... the idol master franchise.
I discovered a while back that everyone is a slave to causality. It's like the matrix reloaded (I know but stay with me) no was the one but was only in a higher level of control created for the rebellious types. If not for guts and and skull knight griffith couldn't have achieved his dreams and become a member of the god hand or be reincarnated.
Thanks zegodhand for the breakdown.
I like the idea that maybe, yes, causality is controlling it all, but, as it seems, the collective and powerful enough belief reinforced by the will of many or will of one particularly mentally strong individual can somehow manipulate happenings in reality in the world of berserk to some degree. I feel that guts has made it this far not by a massive sword… enchanted armor… or raw strength, but by sheer will. He can defy causality because in terms of will he can “struggle” against the collective will of all other beings. He was born to die as a waste of air, but he came through, he was raised in a brutal and uncaring environment as a child, but he came through, all these times one thing after another so many times he should be dead and yet… he came through. Even after serving his purpose to Griffith, he fought. And won. Maybe he is the one fish jumping out of the river of causality, the one being to defy the idea of evil.
Zegodhand..my lord hath returned
Griffith should’ve wanted Horns instead of wings. He damn near the devil incarnate. But I guess ZODD already has him beat
I think Miura backpedaled on this aspect because he realized the implications and explanations he would have to do- and wasn't exactly ready for that. Guts fairly struggles at grander plots and themes since it's focus is about dark fantasy grit and dirt. While something more akin to Full Metal was built on a huge notion and revisits it. To reveal it after so long I think Miura realized reaaaal fast he wasn't ready for something like that.
Also funny enough I always assumed this god was false~ as it was the delusional idea of a god by Griffeth and how the Godhand are born to their own evil. Though it would've also been interesting to see Miura tackle this concept in their universe something similar to 40K but in which humanity is somewhat doomed unless they break the cycle of superstitions and inability to succumb their inner demons- Guts would then somewhat represent the savior of humanity with the armor and the Black wolf-.
There’s another comment I left here, but I can safely say that from this Idea(hehe). I think the better way to look at the Idea is more literal than it seems. It can only manipulate humanity to do bad, but it is still just a concept made by humans. Hence, change and paradox will equivalent to its flesh and bones.
Guts is just that, as a metaphor, he exists to contradict a world of evil by exposing dark virtues. He’s not fully exempt from evil himself. He’s just more likely to churn a ‘better’ outcome from it.
Someone may have commented on this but I'm finding a connection between this godlike entity and that of Hellraiser's Leviathan. Miura was deeply inspired by Hellraiser when formulating the Godhand. Just a thought!
The idea of evil is focused on negative thoughts and emotions. When guts acts with intentions other then revenge he is able to break the surface of the”water” skull knight is fixated on revenge fueled by his hatred of the god hand so he is stuck in causality’s effect. Think when he attacked void or when he caused the world to merge with the astral plain his intentions fell inline with the idea of evil. Whenever a character in berserk does thing that don’t fall inline with the idea of evil they are no longer affected by causality at that moment in time. Example would be the prostitute surviving in a barrel her intentions were to save others out of care and love so for that moment she was not affected by casualty.
I feel by the logic of what the idea of evil said there should be another god as well born from the other side of humanity. Much like the duality of the emperor and the chaos gods in 40k. On a side note about fate Guts is also based some what off of Corum who was from the eternal champion saga. Corum was created to cheat fate and kill the gods in it.
This chapter is still important, it proves that Griffit is not controlled by ulterior forces, he's doing what he think is right.
I remember the dialogue of George Herbert's novel DUNE.
Every plan has another plan in it.
Plan within plan.
If all his plans are formulated and his providence must be fulfilled only in it, the god is already bound to his own absoluteness.
In other words, this god is not a true god but a being defined by human ideals. The prescribed God is an idea, not a being.
Therefore, this god is a suitable god in the world of Berserk where each other's ideals collide.
You want wings nigga? Sheeeet that's $3.50 or $4.99 with fries and a drink
We all want wings. We all want to fly to the heavens. We all want
A function I feel The Idea of Evil as a "character" would accomplish is that it would ground the God Hand ot some extend as long as it exists as the limit of the world, or as a force of nature. It existing makes the God Hand only a dent on their own grand scheme and as such, expendable. The God of the Abyss exists as such because it is a being that has no way of having his nature and purpose go unfulfilled or challenged and can't be killed, but at the same time it has the ability of disposing of Angels the same way they do to apostles.
I think that it even could even use Guts or the Skull Knight to get rid of them (The God Hand) when it doesn't need them anymore, give the story closure and start writing a new one.
Who knows, maybe the next Griffith will be a pseudo Ubermensch megarich politician/CEO, and the one after that, a messiah-complexed supercomputer.
Man i can totally foresee myura bringing back "the idea of evil"back at some point in the end just to mindblow the fans that glimpsed this forbidden chapter bfore the cut
nah
Because of the removal of the chapter, many people debate whether or not The Idea of Evil still exists.
Idea of Evil exists. But this chapter is not canon. Griffith said "God?" before this chapter.
A Akd Does it really exist? Or is it what Griffith wants to see?
@@Shrkek it does exists. Godhand acts as pawns of IoE. It probably created behelits too. If IoE did not exist how would someone become Godhand in the first place?
@@Shrkek You can find a lot of theories and answers how IoE was created. I know but I'm not a good story teller so I'll leave it to the experts. I'd advice you to join Berserk Discord and look at SK.net if you still didn't.
it exists, but if miura ever talks about it again, it will probably be different from the chapter, the godhand obviously work for something or someone, which is probably the IoE, whoever, it was way too early to drop that lore bomb, so he basically ignores the existance of that chapter
God of the memes. 2.
I think Berserk's world mostly follows fatalism, you have free will but it doesn't matter. People are like pebbles in a stream, they make water flow around them but ultimately it ends up in the same place. If a person struggles enough however they're like a bolder being dropped in the stream causing it to burst it's banks and water will flow in a different direction.
I think that Griffith could ask the idea to let casca and guts live
Yo I forgot how philosophical this whole shit is
So mostly in berserk the heart is evil because what ever your heart wants it's what you disier so mostly it's what you want to get in a good way or a bad way but the person with most powerful disire succeed that's how I see it
Griffith: What do you want from me?!
Idea of Evil: Eh. I don’t know. You do you.
I believe much later on in the story Griffith will have a flashback where muira recreates the most important parts of this chapter in he current art style
What if causality knew Kentaro Miura will pass on before Berserk’s story is completed so the idea to have chapter 83 feature the Idea of Evil was planted in advance?
Actually I don’t feel like it really limits the story that much - more like it gives me a perspective of how Guts might eventualy overcome this “idea of god”. It’s like the Skull Knight hinted that he might be the one who can break that idea of everything being predetermined and actually take responsibility for his life actions and undestand that it kinda is his own doing not like most people just going with the flow blaming all their problems on this mystic entity that they themselves have actually managed to will into existance and that has now for real taken control of ‘em all. This might be the edge that Guts has over Griffith himself otherwise the world of Berserk feels kinda hopless which kinda is the point so its fine but honestly a very interesting chapter that I did not know was actually cut cuz I was reading the fansub version. I hope that this is cannon serves the story quite well so far I think. Thanks for the video.
ok, now I understand why the quality was worse in this chapter than the others when I read it, it was saved from the erasure that befell its past versions (wow, dramatic much?)
however, here's what I think about the Idea: it says to Griffith to do what he wants... if I had to think of something, I'd say fate was only relevant prior to that point, but after Griffith reached that pivotal point in his live and the world's history, things were actually left to chance since there was no longer a need for Griffith to get where he did, for once, the one entity that controls fate said to someone to do what they wanted, right after said entity was pulling the strings that controlled people's actions... so either JUST Griffith is now free from fate or everyone from the transformation and onward is too, that's how I see things
Wait, when is your birthday, exactly? I want to know so I can wish you a happy birthday when it arrives
"I want
Wings"