what about the Ascendent realm, it too is a place of cultivated chaos as it is a place similar to the pail heart that the minds of people who enter it and carve out a place of their own with sufficiant will (throne worlds) can cultuivate it which leads me to the thought that it could very well be in savathun's throneworld
Hey byf this might sound like a interesting idea for a video if possible could the witness or fikrul bring long dead eliksni back to life as scorn like skolas, any of the kells,aksis,archprist vosik,randal,aksor archon priest,draksis, taniks even
Hey Byf, Two-Way Radio Technician here. Your explanation of signals and radio wave propagation was actually a pretty good and accurate explanation. An interesting thing about NM-O though in radio, an NMO style connector is used to mount the antenna of a mobile radio to the exterior of a vehicle. Do with that what you will.
I'm still calling it: the Witness is made of souls forced into it's current shape and not all of them went with consent. This is similar to lore found on neomuna where citizens did not go into the cloud ark willingly. The end of scatter signal lore can imply that: "Though not all agree on all,all agree on this". If my theory is correct then just like in Full Metal Alchemist, we will wear the Witness down by communing with the dissenting souls using our powers, pull them out of the Witness via standing on a plate, dunking a ball, getting a buff, getting rid of a debuff, matching symbols, and a DPS phase with rockets.
i do think it was entirely unwilling and maybe the witness used Stasis to force their race to ben the knee and merg their mind with theirs under threats of violence
The Guardian: so you’re saying we’re some kind of Final Shape? Ghost: No, this is our Destiny The Witness, witnessing all of this: I guess you could say this is my Destiny Too
The only problem is that in previous lore tabs with the Nine speaking, they all have distinct "speaking" styles, like one uses capslock, another has no capitalization, another no punctuation, etc etc.
what if it is the vex but cultivated chaos could be the ascendent realm space like a throne world gifted to them for their needs fare away from the black heart. and i suspect its located in or around neomuna
15:20 I don't think the Witness needs the Black Heart to accomplish its goals when the Witness itself is the being of Darkness, & someone from Bungie said in the reveal "the Witness has the Darkness & has always had a connection to it, the Pale Heart is what it's trying to use to gain access to the Light so with both it can enact its Final Shape". I think the Veil was only required to open the portal
I thought the Witness is on the same level as us as in he’s a wielder of the darkness while we wield the light. And that the traveler is the Light personified and the veil was Darkness personified. It kinda made sense to me because of the origin story we got for the witness showed that the witness before he was the witness was a follower of the light and they found the veil that is the darkness. The only that doesn’t make sense is what the black heart and the pale heart are
@@Ahziialyes the Traveler is the Light & the Veil is Darkness, but the Witness itself is kinda made of Darkness, & idk if I'd say the Veil is Darkness "personified", it's more like a glorified object of Darkness to me
@@BrazarB ok so the witness is the same as us then, correct? Seeing as we’re beings created from light and the witness’ people used the darkness to merge themselves into the witness.
The Witness absolutely needs the Black Heart to accomplish its goals. It can’t wield the Light without it because it doesn’t have its own connection to the Light. It needs the Light to enact the Final Shape, so it it’s trying to force a connection to the Traveler and siphon the Light that way.
One thing I really hope for in TFS is that we encounter that one lady from the earliest concept of Destiny, the one that's just seems like one big trip
@BalloonMerchant, unfortunately, there's next to nothing about her, but it's speculated that she's the Gardener, and if you wanna see the video I'm referring to look up Destiny earliest concept
Hey has anyone ever questioned why the Traveler was Buriwd on the Witnesses planet in the first place? Like what happened for it to be put in that position in the first place
the traveler did try to smite the witness but the witness succeeded not because they resisted but because they parried so to speak, and the pyramid ships put the traveler in a catatonic state. the traveler never fully recovered from the collapse when it was damaged
Given the many seasonal story reveals, I'm thinking that the precursors found a wormgod, and they asked for help, and the help came in the shape of the "Traveler", and everytime the precursors asked for something, their planet was endangered, this would be why the precursors blamed the Traveler for the bad stuff, when in fact it would've been the worm gods that twisted the requests
I'm not 100% on NM-O being Osiris. NM-O01 was, but that's a specific designation, and not even necessarily for Osiris himself. It could literally just be the terminal he was using at the time. NM-O could just be a general designation for NeoMuna-Outgoing or something.
At first, I was skeptical of your take on the source of the signal being the Veil/Traveler. However, as you explained, further things began to click into place for me. The Traveler doesn't generally communicate in direct terminology. In vanilla D2, we received a vision after Gaul kicked us off of his flagship. That was the Traveler telling us what was coming and what we needed to do. It communicates through symbology and metaphor. The scatter signal is basic alphanumeric code, which any intelligent being able to receive it could decipher. Yet, it is a code within a code. A poem, metaphor. I doubt the Vex would use such a simple method of communication to talk to other Vex. However, Osiris has been setting up sensors around the Veil and monitors them constantly. This is a fact within the lore. There's a possibility that it is the Nine. After all, the last line seems to indicate that there is a group that is struggling to reach a consensus, which is also something we know about the Nine. Not all of them agree that they should support humanity and its allies, but they all agree that there is no them without us. They also love their damn mysterious riddles. Personally, I hope it's the Traveler. After 10 years, I want to finally meet this being that has been an enigma to us. Perhaps once the Witness is stopped, we'll get to meet this being at the Galaxy Pools.
I'm watching this now, catching up on the past year or so's lore in preparation, after the season of wish conclusion. Obviously this prediction of the heart was correct. Unbelievable
I read the line “turn parallel into entanglement” as a shift in the quantum superposition of The Traveler and The Veil, a different way that the Witness is figuring how to merge them. Anyway there is definitely some weird cosmic fate destined to the Sol System, hence the Sol Divisive faction name for such 4th dimensional entities as The Vex, and of course, The Witness catchphrase.
One theory I think could use some thought, what if the message came from the "freed" vex mind that's the base of the cloud-ark? Realistically we fought the vex throughout the neomuna campaign/post-campaign who were trying to reach that mind, what if this is it communicating back to tell us how what the vex are doing, or talking about in relation to the traveler?
That vex mind is soteria, The AI from the Watchtower from the Spire of the Watcher dungeon she went into deep sleep again after granting us the winterbite blueprints
I feel the Witness is recreating the black heart inside the traveler. Thinking back to Destiny Vanilla when we defeated the black heart there was dialogue stating that our Traveler would now begin to heal. Recreating the black heart near the pale heart would in turn harm the traveler since prior evidence kind of points to that fact.
This is a rare piece of lore nowadays that ignites the mystery and "I want to discover more of that" feel that Destiny felt like it really hasn't displayed in a long time. There's bits there for speculation that add up, but nothing enough to be certain. But it does make you intrigued to find out more. I hopre Bungie takes this signal thread somewhere.
(Sorry for length. Just thorough with ideas and thoughts.) Considering the Vex interacted with Sol billions of years before humanity arrived, the manipulation of Sol system by their presence in the past opened the doors to what humanity became. They played a role that would lead to humanity and current events. My random theory of the day is that an early group of Vex encountered the Veil. They understood it enough, choice or were "disconnected" from the Vex network but still continued. They recognized their inability to combat what was to come. They experienced a shift. They were the first to conceptualize the "Black Garden". Something the rest of the Vex couldn't and would likely see as fodder for change. The mitochondria within Earth life cells are from Vex, ARE Vex or seeded Vex, but evolved within life for billions of years to create an organic machine across the entire planet. Sol is the original Black Garden, but the other Vex we encounter today aren't from the group that created it and don't understand its true purpose. When they encountered Sol systems rogue Vex ruins, the current Vex didn't/couldn't understand what the purpose was or what it was all about. They calculate, they study, they test, and simulated what the rogue Vex did to pursuit more data but it just doesn't work the same way. Their artificial Black Garden pocket is a poor facsimile, and the Darkness/Witness stepped in to take advantage of that pursuit which created the Sol Divisive who determined (wrongfully) that the Darkness was the Black Garden's prize. But the true prize is the life that exploded in Sol, connection with humanity to monitor through Vex cells working within humans (in secret to us), giving the Rogue Vex (Sol Gardeners) the ability to see humanity in other timelines. Osiris, Elsie, being able to see all the different actions the different versions of themselves and others timelines is because of the Vex cells (mitochondria) within us. Okay done. Have a good one.
I think there's actually two distinct halves to this. I think the first half is the Vex attempting it recreate the Black Heart in order to commune with the Witness- but I think the "dark core" part is separate. I think in their attempts to commune with the Witness, the Vex glimpse ("dream") of whatever is in that structure the Witness creates in the Pale Heart which seems to be our end goal. Whatever that is, which is key to that "return to the primordial."
You’re Tropospheric scatter is close but a little wrong. I’m in the USMC and I’m a radio operator so I now a little bit about this. So in terms of radio frequency we mostly use HF, VHF, and UHF. On the military side, we have our own definition of ranges on frequencies bands so I don’t know what the civilian range is of these 3. HF (High Frequency) is our lowest range and that is what we actually use for Tropospheric Scatter. How you had explained it was flipped. The reason it’s HF that is able to do this is because it’s such a low frequency rate, it’s not strong enough to penetrate the ionosphere (The layer of the atmosphere that allows for this) and therefore reflects it, allowing us to bounce it at angles that would allow us to make RF shots even as far as Europe from the US. Thing is however, anything above our HF range is actually too high of a frequency and it ends up just going right through the ionosphere. With that being said, not even 1 GHz is allowed to bounce off our ionosphere, that is wayyy to high of a frequency and will pass right through it. You have the concept correct though, just the wrong frequency range
Byf, you are the hero the Destiny Community needs, but not the one it deserves. Seriously. I've got almost 4,000 hours in the game, and I would not have done half of that were it not for your lore videos. The lore is what keeps me interested in Destiny. It's what makes all the toxicity of the community bearable. My hat is off to you.
What about Ashir Mir? Or M-Sund-12? Or the original Maya Sundaresh? With the Ishtar clue at the end of the Exotic quest, seems like there may be some alignment.
@@gregghult Agreed. Who else would send messages in human invented hex code and scatter signals. Asher has the origin, the access, the knowledge, the motive, and the perspective. It all lines up with a nice bow.
Cabal got light power, some Cabal work with us. Fallen got stasis, some Fallen work with us. Hive got light power, some Hive work with us. We have, time after time, fought against insurmountable odds and won. My theory is the vex, although they don’t understand our power, have calculated it against the outcome of the witness and some (Sol Divisive) have now sided with us. Vex-calibur mission showed Asher in the middle of it.
This might sound crazy, but what about maya sunderesh? She linked herself to the veil which could give her a link to the traveler. It feels like she has been talked on a lot. What if maya is trying to unite the vex? Just a theory
I believe that was the Soteria AI which hitched a ride on the exodus ship that made it to Neptune. Soteria was a vex based AI that was good at calculating the future.
I mean... Asher Mir was supposed to decend and merge into the vex network, what if he has learnt stuff he didn't know before and this is him sending out information to who he believes could use it. We have already seen pixelated images of him in the vex net that we access threw Neomuna, atleast before the merge. All in all i think this messege does make sense if you assume its from him.
Asher Mir is like reverse Siri, he downloads himself onto my phone and then tries to make his “assistant” do things for him THIS IS REAL LIFE STOP ASKING FOR PRECISION KILLS
smooth, smooth like butta Also, as an expert on radio comms, you did really well in explaining this. Although I will note that this likely not how radio waves behave in a place like neomuna. You have the right idea (short range comms) and I doubt that Bungo would go to the trouble of seeing how radio waves would behave in a place that isn't earth
Oh wow it was talking about the final mission of the season! It was a heads up that the Sol Divisive were making the black heart again to disrupt us from making it into the pale heart!
If the report is coming from the Veil itself, and details the inner happenings of the Pale Heart, then maybe it's Crow/Cayde trying to update us on what's going on in there.
Not sure if you’ve covered this yet but when I read “timeless structure” … my mind immediately goes to the sudden appearance of the vex citadel from Venus in D1 now being in the black garden.
It's probably the Ishtar collective, we already know they have been monitoring the black garden, which also has entrances to neomuna, so they sending messages from the garden to neomuna is not farfetched
I have a interesting little bit of a thought here that might have been mentioned before but I say it again. What if this was a message from Cayde to update us on the Pale heart but the Vex caught it first. And what if but for a moment there where some among the Vex who disagreed with the idea of Darkness being thier Salvation? What if one mind made the calulation that Sol itself could be thier Salvation. What if they could unite tbe Vex under the purpose to presvere Sol as it currently is? Just something to think about.
I still wanna know what the traveler even is... for all that has been revealed, we basically know nothing about it.. (Lord Saladin: "what if the traveler isn't what we think it is.") The traveler is still the biggest mystery in the game.
Learned a bit of radio in college, old prof was an engineer for a major radio communication company. Good catch on tropospheric scatter, but keep in mind that scatter signaling isn't technically limited to the troposphere. There are a number of ways to send scatter signals, depending on what you bounce it off of, so the geographic aspect may not be relevant. But, it still means the sender and receiver view the same medium to scatter the signal off of.
Ashir Mir putting in work, he was assimilated but im betting hes still making a move for us 😂 but seriously he was studying as vex at the end of Avalon. Some link maybe
I think it’s maya sundaresh or chioma esi, more likely to be maya out of the two or at least a version of maya Also on a separate note..does anyone else get a Kang the conqueror vibe from maya multiple different versions of her…seemingly split across multiple timelines. I feel like if destiny is going to continue past TFS I wonder if that’s an avenue they might go down..or maybe (going way out there on this) the sol Divisive is infact a version of maya that’s managed to isolate a portion of the vex and created the Sol Divisive, my point of reference on that is one of the final logs in that veil log mission where maya talk about salvation, we know she was studying the vex and the veil so and given Destiny isn’t a stranger to time travel or paradox’s, when you really think about it we know that little about the vex it’s not outside the realm of possibility.
Maybe I am misremembering but I believe in the Lightfall campaign Osiris referred to the powers of light and dark as fundamental forces of the universe that operate “in parallel”
“Sol is Salvation.” Honestly, my mind went to the Eliksni first, referring to House Salvation still trying to rebuild in Sol. Weak speculation, I know. That’s just what I thought about initially before your breakdown. Besides that, I don’t think the message is from the Vex. I feel like it wouldn’t be so “easy” for us or the Neomunie to decipher Vex comms, even if Osiris spent unimaginable time with them. Also I don’t picture them communicating so formally. The lines would have been shorter and less vague. I think this is a character we might not have met yet. Somebody who’s well aware of the situation and seems to know the entire “story” up to this point. They may be focusing on the Vex and/or the Witness with this message, but maybe there are more messages out there scattered with perspectives on all major parties, races, and factions. Or someone is predicting the Vex to play a major role in TFS, there’s not enough info to figure all this out. Cool theories, this was an interesting video!
Amazing video as always. My speculation Is with the Neomuni though, aren’t all of them essentially Vex? This “scatter signal” could possibly be from anyone or anything inside the CloudArk. Right?
The traveller and veil once being connected is nice because it explains why when we get revived for the first time we don't remember anything since the veil is all about memory
If it’s local to Neomuna and with Vex presence, then a Easter egg (admittedly in the yard and not hidden), I have a theory: the copies of the Ishtar Collective in the Vex network are reporting back to the “original(s?)” on Neomuna through the network and they’re consolidating the information into a something but because attenuation and maybe translation is a thing it’s less…decisive and more flowery language. If we have Osiris as NMO-01 why would he be just NMO here? Maybe the original or what remains of the original Maya Sundaresh/Collective are discussing this and they reside in a network on NM that isn’t necessarily the Vex network or maybe they even reside there? Pure spinfoil but I haven’t talked myself out of it quite yet.
Some personal opinions: "Cultivated chaos" - could just refer to the universe in general. "Minds" - probably refers to vex minds as the Witness's minds are more commonly referred to as "voices." "A timeless structure" - Vault of Glass? The infinite forest? "Parallel to entanglement" - vex are straight lined, (fit the shape of cut it out) so if the vex are trying to tie into paracausality then that would give meaning to entanglement. "Sol is salvation" - the vex don't want the witnesses goal, but they do want it's power. As to who sent the message - Ishtar copies? Personal theory - the simulated Ishtar collective has grown beyond their simulation and has begun integrating or influencing the vex, causing them to gain a "will" or "ego." This would support the issue of "there is no Boss Vex" and grant more traction to the thought of Bungie moving into Episodes. The first theorized to be Vex themed. Either way, Vex with the abilities of paracausality is a scary thought.
Plot twist: We finish Final Shape and wake up out of a Vex simulation. We’re greeted by the vanguard saying it’s only just begun. Destiny 3 wipes everything for everyone muahahaha
This seems kind of obvious to me, but of course it's just theory, so I could be wrong. What about Asher Mir? He merged into the Vex Network. His background as a Gaurdian would explain why this signal was sent to Osiris. It would only be poetic of Bungee to end the Final Shape where we first began this saga. With the Heart from the Black Garden, or rather, something like it. This was, after all, at the center of Asher's research. It's not outside the realm of possibility that Asher, having discovered this via means of the Vex Network, would try to warn us of the incoming doom. It is what the Stranger was most concerned about in D1. It all fits together. I guess we will see in a few months, if not sooner.
Only challenge to the signal being local is a phenomenon called atmospheric ducting where in certain situations a signal that would, normally, be expected to refract or reflect winds up getting “caught” bouncing between different atmospheric densities resulting in the signal following the curve of the planet for longer than intended and finally reflecting back to the surface well past its intended location. In the context of lore it could be interesting if Osiris caught a ducted signal, but that’s such a niche thing to know happens I doubt it would be that way.
Using our light together and a sort of "binding" mechanic someone else on here said they think maybe we can "tear" the species apart little by little. Much like Boolausus in Luigi's Mansion. Super hard to beat together, but not separated
I’m willing to bet the signal is from the veil. EM signals are sort of the veil’s thing. It was able to cause a jamming bubble on Neomuna. Maya has done several experiments on it that have involved a lot of EM talk. Even Maya’s diaries and Osiris’s explanation to Nimbus, all involve stuff about electromagnetism. Waves which can be sent on a 1 to 20 GHz frequency.
One thing I didn't notice until now was the nomads in the Witness origin cutscene had one their kind with glowing eyes like a shining star. We usually see this as an indicator that someone has performed wish-magic. Perhaps the wish (assuming that the light wasn't coming from the traveler itself) was for their people to all come together as one species and work to build a place where there would be no more suffering, for everyone. I can see how a wish-dragon would love to twist that hope into a far-reaching plot and create ahamkara-related shenanigans along the way for the nourishment something like that brings.
It’s probably not backed up by lore but I do like the narrative idea that The Veil is the one sending the message specifically to Osiris (in a way where he thinks he intercepted it when it was actually sent to him) because The Veil actually favors us over The Witness, which might in turn explain why The Witness needed the Light (via our Ghost) to forge a link
I'm interested in the way that Bungie punctuates things. We know from previous lore that things like the Nine get very specific styles or conventions. The same goes for the Traveler itself, or what we believe to be the Traveler from lore around Speakers. So my suggestion here is that O-monitor-spike003 actually tells us the origin point of this transmission is near-space to Earth. Specifically, in the area around the Traveler. My instinct there is because Clovis/Warmind convention for referencing the Traveler was [O]. Which could (if Osiris copied a bit of shorthand) indicate that an O-monitor-spike is a probe or device set up to monitor the Traveler for changes to its condition in the aftermath of the portal being opened. That would mean it's hard for "scatter signal" to reach Neomuna, but the HELM is close enough to pick up that sort of signal, and then forward data streams to Osiris on Neptune. Functionally, that would have to mean that this is a signal that is being transmitted out of the Traveler for one of several reasons. Either, as Byf suggested, as a Sol Divisive appeal to other Vex to join them, a Sol Divisive rallying cry (so to speak), or possibly as a form of distress call from the Traveler trying to reach out to us. Or, this could be a lot of spinfoil and empty air. But I am intrigued by the use of O-monitor.
What frightens me but could lead to post "Final Shape" content is the thought of the vex finally finding a manor of wielding darkness, but being not really an independent consiousness... could they wield it? Or being connected if they found a way... would all be granted the power together? Do the vex need to adapt to it like us and become individually partitioned to properly wield the power of "consiousness?"
Not something i have seen mentioned online before, unless i have missed a video on youtube, but, the "Pyramidion Emblem" from years back in Destiny 2, has a top down view of the veil. This is from way before the veil was even mentioned in game. The fact that this is linked to the vex via the pyramidion name is very interesting.
When you were reading this my immediate thoughts went to the Nine actually. Possibly this message was sent by a Nine, or references them. I'll address only the points that support this (there are still holes): 1. If this is a short range message, it would make sense the Nine would be able to send this. From my understanding they are basically representations of old celestial bodies themselves. So the sender could be "Neptune"....or anywhere in space. How would they send this message though? 2. "Minds orbit its gravity"..."to move from parallel to entanglement." The Nine are orbiting minds and their goal seems to be to have a real physical presence in the Sol System. Currently their existence at least to us seems to be on a parallel plane. 3. "Suspended return to primordial"....this could refer to many things but we've seen the Nine referred to as primordial Gods in the lore before. 4. "Though not all agree on all, all agree on this. Sol is Salvation." We know the Nine has differing opinions and may have 2 factions based around their approaches to light. Their existence is literally tied to the the life in the Sol System. I guess what I don't understand, is if this is from the Nine or referencing them....what exactly is being said? Is one faction on the move? Actually reading through lore I found this this tidbit regarding the factions: "The other faction walks a different path. A path of folds and needles slipped through spacetime itself, existential syringes yielding new spaces, to be remade as the Nine desire. They have tried to gather enough dark dust in one place to form a black hole, and found it difficult: when the dark mass collapses in gravity's fist, the dust passes through itself and scatters." I think your theory regarding the Sol divisive makes more sense...
7:57 RIP grenade I think it's just Osiris intercepting a message from one Vex faction to another. Wouldn't take much for the Vex to converge back into one faction if they believed they found the answer to being the ultimate surviving species. Just like when a Guardian walks out into the open when the Vex are shooting at his teammate's ghost waiting for the revive. They'll all turn towards the same goal
I didn't hear u mention it but what if that is the sleeping vex mind that is within the cloudark? It's spoken once saying enemy of the witness is on titan. What if it's trying to communicate that the other vex factions may help us against the sol devisive given they need to survive the hezen lords have previously turned to us during the taken invasion and willingly allowed us into the vault to deal with the issue
What if its Brother Vance? Didnt he disappear into the Infinite Forest when The Witness took Mercury? Long shot but if it is someone reaching out to Osiris specifically from within the Vex Network it'd be him after he found a way into the Garden from within the forest
I want to suggest given all the context clues that perhaps The Veil was originally housed in the Black Garden. And that is why the original Black Heart (a failed copy of the Veil) was originally located there. I believe the Witness precursor species located and retrieved it from there untold eons ago.
I think the lore card talking about us rebuilding the black heart (the synthesised veil) and trying to use it to open a way into the traveller. The logs are most likely the vex detecting the reactivation of the black heart.
Man, if everyone could make ads this fun and seamless I'd watch them just to support the creativity. (I mean, I do watch most of them to support the creators, but not every single time...)
The first clue to me in regards to the clues that pointed at the Black Garden was actually the mention of "Shadow and Mimicry" specifically *because* it was a failed copy of the Veil.
I think it’s Asher Mir broadcasting and quite possibly not even knowing if it’s being picked up. That being said I believe he is betting that Osiris, based on their similar experience with and shared intricate knowledge of the vex and their networks, would look in a handful of places believing the possibility of contact existed… and maybe then say set up equipment in various locations monitoring for any viable signals and coming across some sporadically in the form of scatter signals… 🤷♂️
I think it could be, but he did 'die' after the Avalon mission (the lore tabs indicate how). But, he also managed to do some impressive stuff, and spinfoil hat time: Maybe the Vex there had a copy of him for some reason since he did enter the Pyramidion, and that Asher copy tried to send some data out of a Neomuna access point or something.
Don't forget the traveler has also directly communicated through ghosts, screaming at rhulk to stop trying to claim the light before detonating a ghost
I know I'm late to the party here... But my guess is that it is Maya S. I think you're spot on with the origin of the signal and it's location, and even it's intended recipient. The reason I'm calling it for Maya, is because she is in the Vex network. The end of the Insight Terminus has dialog indicating she was messing around in Vex networks, and this lore is from The Red War. More recently she's been featured prominently in Neomuna lore, and conveniently went missing (I know it seems like she uploaded herself or something... but the point is, she disappeared from the city unexpectedly). More spinfoily stuff now but.... In Starcrossed, the large Vex structure on the horizon is an exact replica of the Citadel on Venus. Down to the crappy low res renders. That could mean nothing on it's own, but it is odd to choose that specific structure. Add to this that at the end of Star Crossed, we have a Dreaming City portal above broken Dreaming City architecture that leads to a room that does not appear to be like the Garden (can't see for sure if it's inside it or not) that has the Ishtar symbol inside (and a cute kitty cat). The Citadel, for those who don't remember or don't know, is where the "real" Maya sent the copies of her and her research team into the Vex Network to study them. So the appearance of the Citadel, and of the Ishtar symbol in the Garden tells me something is up with her. That she's either doing something, or trying to tell us something. Or something is trying to tell us about her. And given all that focus on her and her team lately, and how this lore tab is explicitly "Vexy" in it's style, but doesn't make sense as something Vex would "say".... I'm betting one of the Maya's in the Vex network sent it, or someone on her team. Or it is in some other way directly related to her or her team.
My assumption is that Crow is infiltrating within, and is simply dispatching information for us to decipher since he cannot physically relay that himself. Due to space and time being so different being in the pale heart, the only means of communicating is through the hexadecimal language. It reminds me of Interstellar where the only way Matthew(Joseph) could relay information to his daughter was through some form of code. Osiris is the one who received that code, and so we could likely interpret this as Crow divulging the plans of the enemy.
Ok yes, my first thought when I heard of receiving scatter signals was the veil. It’d make sense to be something that Osiris was studying. But another Idea.. shot in the dark here. No evidence at all but it’d be fun. Assuming its not the veil, and leaning more vex-ward, but some other party on neptune sent the signal. Perhaps, Asher? 👀 I know, I know. But cmon.
Get 4 months extra on a 2 year plan here: nordvpn.com/byfvpn. It’s risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee!
what about the Ascendent realm, it too is a place of cultivated chaos as it is a place similar to the pail heart that the minds of people who enter it and carve out a place of their own with sufficiant will (throne worlds) can cultuivate it which leads me to the thought that it could very well be in savathun's throneworld
That was a really creative ad read. Made me laugh
Hey byf this might sound like a interesting idea for a video if possible could the witness or fikrul bring long dead eliksni back to life as scorn like skolas, any of the kells,aksis,archprist vosik,randal,aksor archon priest,draksis, taniks even
Did you come up with that ad, or did they? Either way, kudos.
One option for sender.. Asher mir?
Hey Byf, Two-Way Radio Technician here. Your explanation of signals and radio wave propagation was actually a pretty good and accurate explanation. An interesting thing about NM-O though in radio, an NMO style connector is used to mount the antenna of a mobile radio to the exterior of a vehicle. Do with that what you will.
So maybe Osiris Ship intercepted this transmission
Really appreciate the extra context! Thank you!
Bro the Nezarec boss room looks like an antenna on the top of the pyramid ship pointing into the pale heart😱😱
I'm still calling it: the Witness is made of souls forced into it's current shape and not all of them went with consent. This is similar to lore found on neomuna where citizens did not go into the cloud ark willingly. The end of scatter signal lore can imply that: "Though not all agree on all,all agree on this".
If my theory is correct then just like in Full Metal Alchemist, we will wear the Witness down by communing with the dissenting souls using our powers, pull them out of the Witness via standing on a plate, dunking a ball, getting a buff, getting rid of a debuff, matching symbols, and a DPS phase with rockets.
This better not be i want to see a speed track where we race our sparrows against the whitness
@@nittani. I mean maybe we have to pass a buff WHILE riding sparrows
Now that's what I call pod racing!
I want to race my Sparrow WHILE SHOOTING ROCKETS. Come on, it should be possible. Guardians are agile.
i do think it was entirely unwilling and maybe the witness used Stasis to force their race to ben the knee and merg their mind with theirs under threats of violence
The Guardian: so you’re saying we’re some kind of Final Shape?
Ghost: No, this is our Destiny
The Witness, witnessing all of this: I guess you could say this is my Destiny Too
Then Taniks shows up riding Riven, wielding a steel chair in each hand.
@@jimijenkins2548And Shaxx is there, naked. But his helmet stayed on.
@@jimijenkins2548wearing cabal phalanx shield armor
@@julioforessi1336 Just like Lord Saladin hitting the griddy on top of Felwinter Peak.
@@seraphsin1058 He is accompanied by Shadow Legion drop pods containing...
More drop pods.
My first thought was the 9 talking about the final shape and themselves understanding and agreeing.
Agreed. I think it's all about The Nine.
This is a good point! The Veil possibly being a collection of the universe's thoughts means it could have picked up on or be linked to the Nine.
It also makes sense, to me, that conscious space dust would use this type of signal to communicate.
The only problem is that in previous lore tabs with the Nine speaking, they all have distinct "speaking" styles, like one uses capslock, another has no capitalization, another no punctuation, etc etc.
what if it is the vex but cultivated chaos could be the ascendent realm space like a throne world gifted to them for their needs fare away from the black heart. and i suspect its located in or around neomuna
15:20 I don't think the Witness needs the Black Heart to accomplish its goals when the Witness itself is the being of Darkness, & someone from Bungie said in the reveal "the Witness has the Darkness & has always had a connection to it, the Pale Heart is what it's trying to use to gain access to the Light so with both it can enact its Final Shape". I think the Veil was only required to open the portal
I thought the Witness is on the same level as us as in he’s a wielder of the darkness while we wield the light. And that the traveler is the Light personified and the veil was Darkness personified.
It kinda made sense to me because of the origin story we got for the witness showed that the witness before he was the witness was a follower of the light and they found the veil that is the darkness.
The only that doesn’t make sense is what the black heart and the pale heart are
@@Ahziialyes the Traveler is the Light & the Veil is Darkness, but the Witness itself is kinda made of Darkness, & idk if I'd say the Veil is Darkness "personified", it's more like a glorified object of Darkness to me
@@BrazarB ok so the witness is the same as us then, correct? Seeing as we’re beings created from light and the witness’ people used the darkness to merge themselves into the witness.
@@Ahziial yea we are the counterpart to the Witness's people in a way
The Witness absolutely needs the Black Heart to accomplish its goals. It can’t wield the Light without it because it doesn’t have its own connection to the Light. It needs the Light to enact the Final Shape, so it it’s trying to force a connection to the Traveler and siphon the Light that way.
Probably the most creative ad read I’ve seen
Agreed 💯😂
I’d disagree with you but I skip all ad reads lmao
@@tromar5758 fair enough lmao
Compared to the ones I’ve seen, yeah, this wasn’t too bad.
Better than eating pizza backwards
One thing I really hope for in TFS is that we encounter that one lady from the earliest concept of Destiny, the one that's just seems like one big trip
Where can I see stuff about her
@BalloonMerchant, unfortunately, there's next to nothing about her, but it's speculated that she's the Gardener, and if you wanna see the video I'm referring to look up Destiny earliest concept
Well, someone did yell at Rhulk through a ghost he tried to persuade into resurrecting him.
Hey has anyone ever questioned why the Traveler was Buriwd on the Witnesses planet in the first place?
Like what happened for it to be put in that position in the first place
+
Hear me out... it was planted... and ghosts are all seeds.
Sure, we've questioned it. But there are no answers, and we probably won't get them unless they're from the Traveler itself.
the traveler did try to smite the witness but the witness succeeded not because they resisted but because they parried so to speak, and the pyramid ships put the traveler in a catatonic state. the traveler never fully recovered from the collapse when it was damaged
Given the many seasonal story reveals, I'm thinking that the precursors found a wormgod, and they asked for help, and the help came in the shape of the "Traveler", and everytime the precursors asked for something, their planet was endangered, this would be why the precursors blamed the Traveler for the bad stuff, when in fact it would've been the worm gods that twisted the requests
I'm not 100% on NM-O being Osiris. NM-O01 was, but that's a specific designation, and not even necessarily for Osiris himself. It could literally just be the terminal he was using at the time. NM-O could just be a general designation for NeoMuna-Outgoing or something.
NM0 is osiris but i think those data spikes are actually in and around the local black garden access points that the Nimbus used.
At first, I was skeptical of your take on the source of the signal being the Veil/Traveler. However, as you explained, further things began to click into place for me.
The Traveler doesn't generally communicate in direct terminology. In vanilla D2, we received a vision after Gaul kicked us off of his flagship. That was the Traveler telling us what was coming and what we needed to do. It communicates through symbology and metaphor. The scatter signal is basic alphanumeric code, which any intelligent being able to receive it could decipher. Yet, it is a code within a code. A poem, metaphor.
I doubt the Vex would use such a simple method of communication to talk to other Vex. However, Osiris has been setting up sensors around the Veil and monitors them constantly. This is a fact within the lore. There's a possibility that it is the Nine. After all, the last line seems to indicate that there is a group that is struggling to reach a consensus, which is also something we know about the Nine. Not all of them agree that they should support humanity and its allies, but they all agree that there is no them without us. They also love their damn mysterious riddles.
Personally, I hope it's the Traveler. After 10 years, I want to finally meet this being that has been an enigma to us. Perhaps once the Witness is stopped, we'll get to meet this being at the Galaxy Pools.
I'm watching this now, catching up on the past year or so's lore in preparation, after the season of wish conclusion.
Obviously this prediction of the heart was correct. Unbelievable
scatter signal is also really really really good
I read the line “turn parallel into entanglement” as a shift in the quantum superposition of The Traveler and The Veil, a different way that the Witness is figuring how to merge them. Anyway there is definitely some weird cosmic fate destined to the Sol System, hence the Sol Divisive faction name for such 4th dimensional entities as The Vex, and of course, The Witness catchphrase.
One theory I think could use some thought, what if the message came from the "freed" vex mind that's the base of the cloud-ark? Realistically we fought the vex throughout the neomuna campaign/post-campaign who were trying to reach that mind, what if this is it communicating back to tell us how what the vex are doing, or talking about in relation to the traveler?
That vex mind is soteria, The AI from the Watchtower from the Spire of the Watcher dungeon
she went into deep sleep again after granting us the winterbite blueprints
@@Yokoto12343 sure, however there's nothing stating that She wouldn't have woken up if there were new Vex activity.
I feel the Witness is recreating the black heart inside the traveler. Thinking back to Destiny Vanilla when we defeated the black heart there was dialogue stating that our Traveler would now begin to heal. Recreating the black heart near the pale heart would in turn harm the traveler since prior evidence kind of points to that fact.
This is a rare piece of lore nowadays that ignites the mystery and "I want to discover more of that" feel that Destiny felt like it really hasn't displayed in a long time. There's bits there for speculation that add up, but nothing enough to be certain. But it does make you intrigued to find out more. I hopre Bungie takes this signal thread somewhere.
it certainly beats all the family drama stuff, I want to know about the big space macguffins and the vape headed antagonist
(Sorry for length. Just thorough with ideas and thoughts.)
Considering the Vex interacted with Sol billions of years before humanity arrived, the manipulation of Sol system by their presence in the past opened the doors to what humanity became. They played a role that would lead to humanity and current events.
My random theory of the day is that an early group of Vex encountered the Veil. They understood it enough, choice or were "disconnected" from the Vex network but still continued. They recognized their inability to combat what was to come. They experienced a shift. They were the first to conceptualize the "Black Garden". Something the rest of the Vex couldn't and would likely see as fodder for change.
The mitochondria within Earth life cells are from Vex, ARE Vex or seeded Vex, but evolved within life for billions of years to create an organic machine across the entire planet. Sol is the original Black Garden, but the other Vex we encounter today aren't from the group that created it and don't understand its true purpose. When they encountered Sol systems rogue Vex ruins, the current Vex didn't/couldn't understand what the purpose was or what it was all about. They calculate, they study, they test, and simulated what the rogue Vex did to pursuit more data but it just doesn't work the same way. Their artificial Black Garden pocket is a poor facsimile, and the Darkness/Witness stepped in to take advantage of that pursuit which created the Sol Divisive who determined (wrongfully) that the Darkness was the Black Garden's prize. But the true prize is the life that exploded in Sol, connection with humanity to monitor through Vex cells working within humans (in secret to us), giving the Rogue Vex (Sol Gardeners) the ability to see humanity in other timelines. Osiris, Elsie, being able to see all the different actions the different versions of themselves and others timelines is because of the Vex cells (mitochondria) within us.
Okay done. Have a good one.
That was THE BEST transition into an advertisement I've ever seen. Usually skip most people's ads, but I stayed because how good that was.
Expecting a Witness manscape read for next video.
I think there's actually two distinct halves to this. I think the first half is the Vex attempting it recreate the Black Heart in order to commune with the Witness- but I think the "dark core" part is separate. I think in their attempts to commune with the Witness, the Vex glimpse ("dream") of whatever is in that structure the Witness creates in the Pale Heart which seems to be our end goal. Whatever that is, which is key to that "return to the primordial."
You’re Tropospheric scatter is close but a little wrong. I’m in the USMC and I’m a radio operator so I now a little bit about this. So in terms of radio frequency we mostly use HF, VHF, and UHF. On the military side, we have our own definition of ranges on frequencies bands so I don’t know what the civilian range is of these 3. HF (High Frequency) is our lowest range and that is what we actually use for Tropospheric Scatter. How you had explained it was flipped. The reason it’s HF that is able to do this is because it’s such a low frequency rate, it’s not strong enough to penetrate the ionosphere (The layer of the atmosphere that allows for this) and therefore reflects it, allowing us to bounce it at angles that would allow us to make RF shots even as far as Europe from the US. Thing is however, anything above our HF range is actually too high of a frequency and it ends up just going right through the ionosphere. With that being said, not even 1 GHz is allowed to bounce off our ionosphere, that is wayyy to high of a frequency and will pass right through it.
You have the concept correct though, just the wrong frequency range
Byf, you are the hero the Destiny Community needs, but not the one it deserves. Seriously. I've got almost 4,000 hours in the game, and I would not have done half of that were it not for your lore videos. The lore is what keeps me interested in Destiny. It's what makes all the toxicity of the community bearable. My hat is off to you.
What about Ashir Mir? Or M-Sund-12? Or the original Maya Sundaresh? With the Ishtar clue at the end of the Exotic quest, seems like there may be some alignment.
I was hoping someone else thought of Ashir! My bet is the message came from him.
@@gregghult Agreed. Who else would send messages in human invented hex code and scatter signals. Asher has the origin, the access, the knowledge, the motive, and the perspective. It all lines up with a nice bow.
A wide reaching 3rd person view can also be the IX
Cabal got light power, some Cabal work with us. Fallen got stasis, some Fallen work with us. Hive got light power, some Hive work with us. We have, time after time, fought against insurmountable odds and won. My theory is the vex, although they don’t understand our power, have calculated it against the outcome of the witness and some (Sol Divisive) have now sided with us. Vex-calibur mission showed Asher in the middle of it.
Am I understanding this correctly:
The Traveler = Body
The Veil = Mind
The Black Garden = Heart /Soul, or is it just a copy of the Veil?
I like to imagine that Bungie devs watch Byf’s speculation videos and go “Holy shit he got it right”
...and they're so amazed they write comments like this
Byf, NordVPN had better be paying you guys TRIPLE for that creativity!!!
I think the timeless structure line could potentially be a reference to the tower like structure the witness is building in the pale heart
This might sound crazy, but what about maya sunderesh? She linked herself to the veil which could give her a link to the traveler. It feels like she has been talked on a lot. What if maya is trying to unite the vex? Just a theory
The message being written to the Voice while also detailing minds trying to send messages to the voice is strange
Isn't there a baby vex in Neomuna? The one strider(I believe) brought and the vex went banana trying to capture it back or something similar.
I believe that was the Soteria AI which hitched a ride on the exodus ship that made it to Neptune. Soteria was a vex based AI that was good at calculating the future.
@@blackbelt352-dd part of Soteria is also "Hierarchy of Needs" OS
I mean... Asher Mir was supposed to decend and merge into the vex network, what if he has learnt stuff he didn't know before and this is him sending out information to who he believes could use it. We have already seen pixelated images of him in the vex net that we access threw Neomuna, atleast before the merge. All in all i think this messege does make sense if you assume its from him.
Asher Mir is like reverse Siri, he downloads himself onto my phone and then tries to make his “assistant” do things for him THIS IS REAL LIFE STOP ASKING FOR PRECISION KILLS
You're not trying hard enough
smooth, smooth like butta
Also, as an expert on radio comms, you did really well in explaining this. Although I will note that this likely not how radio waves behave in a place like neomuna. You have the right idea (short range comms) and I doubt that Bungo would go to the trouble of seeing how radio waves would behave in a place that isn't earth
Oh wow it was talking about the final mission of the season! It was a heads up that the Sol Divisive were making the black heart again to disrupt us from making it into the pale heart!
If the report is coming from the Veil itself, and details the inner happenings of the Pale Heart, then maybe it's Crow/Cayde trying to update us on what's going on in there.
Just came back to this after the Season of the Wish finale. Byf predicted the finals mission lol
Sounds like the Witness is trying to create something like a Triforce from Zelda. The Final Shape in question being like a Sacred Realm.
The original D1 story had you go into the Traveler which was the Black Garden. I'm not surprised that this story beat may return
I don’t recall us ever going into the Traveler in D1
@@michael_aagaard The original story concept, before it was rewritten months before release
I just want to note that this was the best Ad Spot I have ever seen on YT. I am sure a fair amount of work went into it, and it was well received.
Not sure if you’ve covered this yet but when I read “timeless structure” … my mind immediately goes to the sudden appearance of the vex citadel from Venus in D1 now being in the black garden.
It's probably the Ishtar collective, we already know they have been monitoring the black garden, which also has entrances to neomuna, so they sending messages from the garden to neomuna is not farfetched
I have a interesting little bit of a thought here that might have been mentioned before but I say it again.
What if this was a message from Cayde to update us on the Pale heart but the Vex caught it first. And what if but for a moment there where some among the Vex who disagreed with the idea of Darkness being thier Salvation?
What if one mind made the calulation that Sol itself could be thier Salvation. What if they could unite tbe Vex under the purpose to presvere Sol as it currently is?
Just something to think about.
Love seeing the Season of the Undying gameplay. Wish the Edgewise MG would be brought forward as a Nightfall weapon.
I really loved the ad placement this time, got me to watch the whole thing good job.
It never occurred to me till now how similar the Vex are to Durendal from marathon
That was genuinely nice and smooth ad section, tip of the hat to you sir.
Coming back here after the final mission of the season, you’re a prophet man hahaha
I still wanna know what the traveler even is... for all that has been revealed, we basically know nothing about it..
(Lord Saladin: "what if the traveler isn't what we think it is.")
The traveler is still the biggest mystery in the game.
I think recreating the heart of the Black Garden, or reintroducing a Speaker somehow could be interesting story-wise. Brings things back full circle.
Learned a bit of radio in college, old prof was an engineer for a major radio communication company. Good catch on tropospheric scatter, but keep in mind that scatter signaling isn't technically limited to the troposphere. There are a number of ways to send scatter signals, depending on what you bounce it off of, so the geographic aspect may not be relevant. But, it still means the sender and receiver view the same medium to scatter the signal off of.
Soooo… The statue of the cloaked woman in the pyramid ships is the winnower??
Ashir Mir putting in work, he was assimilated but im betting hes still making a move for us 😂 but seriously he was studying as vex at the end of Avalon. Some link maybe
Imagine if the effort put into the lore was put into the rest of the game
By far the best Segway into an ad I've ever seen. That was the 1st ad I've ever actually watched. Very creative,good job!
Very smooth integration for the sponsor.
Been waiting for this lore video
I like the part when The Witness started witnessing everything
I think it’s maya sundaresh or chioma esi, more likely to be maya out of the two or at least a version of maya
Also on a separate note..does anyone else get a Kang the conqueror vibe from maya multiple different versions of her…seemingly split across multiple timelines. I feel like if destiny is going to continue past TFS I wonder if that’s an avenue they might go down..or maybe (going way out there on this) the sol Divisive is infact a version of maya that’s managed to isolate a portion of the vex and created the Sol Divisive, my point of reference on that is one of the final logs in that veil log mission where maya talk about salvation, we know she was studying the vex and the veil so and given Destiny isn’t a stranger to time travel or paradox’s, when you really think about it we know that little about the vex it’s not outside the realm of possibility.
Maybe I am misremembering but I believe in the Lightfall campaign Osiris referred to the powers of light and dark as fundamental forces of the universe that operate “in parallel”
“Sol is Salvation.” Honestly, my mind went to the Eliksni first, referring to House Salvation still trying to rebuild in Sol. Weak speculation, I know. That’s just what I thought about initially before your breakdown.
Besides that, I don’t think the message is from the Vex. I feel like it wouldn’t be so “easy” for us or the Neomunie to decipher Vex comms, even if Osiris spent unimaginable time with them. Also I don’t picture them communicating so formally. The lines would have been shorter and less vague.
I think this is a character we might not have met yet. Somebody who’s well aware of the situation and seems to know the entire “story” up to this point. They may be focusing on the Vex and/or the Witness with this message, but maybe there are more messages out there scattered with perspectives on all major parties, races, and factions. Or someone is predicting the Vex to play a major role in TFS, there’s not enough info to figure all this out.
Cool theories, this was an interesting video!
Well you were right about the black heart, which we blew up again.
The only time i’ll ever be happy to see an ad read
Amazing video as always. My speculation Is with the Neomuni though, aren’t all of them essentially Vex? This “scatter signal” could possibly be from anyone or anything inside the CloudArk. Right?
The traveller and veil once being connected is nice because it explains why when we get revived for the first time we don't remember anything since the veil is all about memory
It could also be the Occlusion.
If it’s local to Neomuna and with Vex presence, then a Easter egg (admittedly in the yard and not hidden), I have a theory: the copies of the Ishtar Collective in the Vex network are reporting back to the “original(s?)” on Neomuna through the network and they’re consolidating the information into a something but because attenuation and maybe translation is a thing it’s less…decisive and more flowery language. If we have Osiris as NMO-01 why would he be just NMO here? Maybe the original or what remains of the original Maya Sundaresh/Collective are discussing this and they reside in a network on NM that isn’t necessarily the Vex network or maybe they even reside there? Pure spinfoil but I haven’t talked myself out of it quite yet.
Some personal opinions:
"Cultivated chaos" - could just refer to the universe in general.
"Minds" - probably refers to vex minds as the Witness's minds are more commonly referred to as "voices."
"A timeless structure" - Vault of Glass? The infinite forest?
"Parallel to entanglement" - vex are straight lined, (fit the shape of cut it out) so if the vex are trying to tie into paracausality then that would give meaning to entanglement.
"Sol is salvation" - the vex don't want the witnesses goal, but they do want it's power.
As to who sent the message - Ishtar copies?
Personal theory - the simulated Ishtar collective has grown beyond their simulation and has begun integrating or influencing the vex, causing them to gain a "will" or "ego." This would support the issue of "there is no Boss Vex" and grant more traction to the thought of Bungie moving into Episodes. The first theorized to be Vex themed.
Either way, Vex with the abilities of paracausality is a scary thought.
The witness wants to enstate instrumentality.
OMG that ad transition makes me want to watch that part of the video over again. Sooooo good.
Plot twist: We finish Final Shape and wake up out of a Vex simulation. We’re greeted by the vanguard saying it’s only just begun. Destiny 3 wipes everything for everyone muahahaha
This seems kind of obvious to me, but of course it's just theory, so I could be wrong. What about Asher Mir? He merged into the Vex Network. His background as a Gaurdian would explain why this signal was sent to Osiris. It would only be poetic of Bungee to end the Final Shape where we first began this saga. With the Heart from the Black Garden, or rather, something like it. This was, after all, at the center of Asher's research. It's not outside the realm of possibility that Asher, having discovered this via means of the Vex Network, would try to warn us of the incoming doom. It is what the Stranger was most concerned about in D1. It all fits together. I guess we will see in a few months, if not sooner.
Only challenge to the signal being local is a phenomenon called atmospheric ducting where in certain situations a signal that would, normally, be expected to refract or reflect winds up getting “caught” bouncing between different atmospheric densities resulting in the signal following the curve of the planet for longer than intended and finally reflecting back to the surface well past its intended location.
In the context of lore it could be interesting if Osiris caught a ducted signal, but that’s such a niche thing to know happens I doubt it would be that way.
Using our light together and a sort of "binding" mechanic someone else on here said they think maybe we can "tear" the species apart little by little. Much like Boolausus in Luigi's Mansion. Super hard to beat together, but not separated
I’m willing to bet the signal is from the veil. EM signals are sort of the veil’s thing. It was able to cause a jamming bubble on Neomuna. Maya has done several experiments on it that have involved a lot of EM talk. Even Maya’s diaries and Osiris’s explanation to Nimbus, all involve stuff about electromagnetism. Waves which can be sent on a 1 to 20 GHz frequency.
One thing I didn't notice until now was the nomads in the Witness origin cutscene had one their kind with glowing eyes like a shining star. We usually see this as an indicator that someone has performed wish-magic. Perhaps the wish (assuming that the light wasn't coming from the traveler itself) was for their people to all come together as one species and work to build a place where there would be no more suffering, for everyone. I can see how a wish-dragon would love to twist that hope into a far-reaching plot and create ahamkara-related shenanigans along the way for the nourishment something like that brings.
It’s probably not backed up by lore but I do like the narrative idea that The Veil is the one sending the message specifically to Osiris (in a way where he thinks he intercepted it when it was actually sent to him) because The Veil actually favors us over The Witness, which might in turn explain why The Witness needed the Light (via our Ghost) to forge a link
I'm interested in the way that Bungie punctuates things. We know from previous lore that things like the Nine get very specific styles or conventions. The same goes for the Traveler itself, or what we believe to be the Traveler from lore around Speakers.
So my suggestion here is that O-monitor-spike003 actually tells us the origin point of this transmission is near-space to Earth. Specifically, in the area around the Traveler. My instinct there is because Clovis/Warmind convention for referencing the Traveler was [O]. Which could (if Osiris copied a bit of shorthand) indicate that an O-monitor-spike is a probe or device set up to monitor the Traveler for changes to its condition in the aftermath of the portal being opened. That would mean it's hard for "scatter signal" to reach Neomuna, but the HELM is close enough to pick up that sort of signal, and then forward data streams to Osiris on Neptune.
Functionally, that would have to mean that this is a signal that is being transmitted out of the Traveler for one of several reasons. Either, as Byf suggested, as a Sol Divisive appeal to other Vex to join them, a Sol Divisive rallying cry (so to speak), or possibly as a form of distress call from the Traveler trying to reach out to us.
Or, this could be a lot of spinfoil and empty air. But I am intrigued by the use of O-monitor.
fully had me with the ad read 10/10
What frightens me but could lead to post "Final Shape" content is the thought of the vex finally finding a manor of wielding darkness, but being not really an independent consiousness... could they wield it? Or being connected if they found a way... would all be granted the power together? Do the vex need to adapt to it like us and become individually partitioned to properly wield the power of "consiousness?"
Not something i have seen mentioned online before, unless i have missed a video on youtube, but, the "Pyramidion Emblem" from years back in Destiny 2, has a top down view of the veil. This is from way before the veil was even mentioned in game. The fact that this is linked to the vex via the pyramidion name is very interesting.
When you were reading this my immediate thoughts went to the Nine actually. Possibly this message was sent by a Nine, or references them. I'll address only the points that support this (there are still holes):
1. If this is a short range message, it would make sense the Nine would be able to send this. From my understanding they are basically representations of old celestial bodies themselves. So the sender could be "Neptune"....or anywhere in space. How would they send this message though?
2. "Minds orbit its gravity"..."to move from parallel to entanglement." The Nine are orbiting minds and their goal seems to be to have a real physical presence in the Sol System. Currently their existence at least to us seems to be on a parallel plane.
3. "Suspended return to primordial"....this could refer to many things but we've seen the Nine referred to as primordial Gods in the lore before.
4. "Though not all agree on all, all agree on this. Sol is Salvation." We know the Nine has differing opinions and may have 2 factions based around their approaches to light. Their existence is literally tied to the the life in the Sol System.
I guess what I don't understand, is if this is from the Nine or referencing them....what exactly is being said? Is one faction on the move?
Actually reading through lore I found this this tidbit regarding the factions:
"The other faction walks a different path. A path of folds and needles slipped through spacetime itself, existential syringes yielding new spaces, to be remade as the Nine desire. They have tried to gather enough dark dust in one place to form a black hole, and found it difficult: when the dark mass collapses in gravity's fist, the dust passes through itself and scatters."
I think your theory regarding the Sol divisive makes more sense...
7:57 RIP grenade
I think it's just Osiris intercepting a message from one Vex faction to another. Wouldn't take much for the Vex to converge back into one faction if they believed they found the answer to being the ultimate surviving species. Just like when a Guardian walks out into the open when the Vex are shooting at his teammate's ghost waiting for the revive. They'll all turn towards the same goal
Idk what you were doing with your time off my guy, but your coming with fire for 2024 great add i love the creative feature into the video
I didn't hear u mention it but what if that is the sleeping vex mind that is within the cloudark? It's spoken once saying enemy of the witness is on titan. What if it's trying to communicate that the other vex factions may help us against the sol devisive given they need to survive the hezen lords have previously turned to us during the taken invasion and willingly allowed us into the vault to deal with the issue
What if its Brother Vance? Didnt he disappear into the Infinite Forest when The Witness took Mercury? Long shot but if it is someone reaching out to Osiris specifically from within the Vex Network it'd be him after he found a way into the Garden from within the forest
I want to suggest given all the context clues that perhaps The Veil was originally housed in the Black Garden.
And that is why the original Black Heart (a failed copy of the Veil) was originally located there.
I believe the Witness precursor species located and retrieved it from there untold eons ago.
Possibly the best segue way for an ad I've ever seen to the point I was actually willing to hear the whole ad. Also, great vid, as always.
I think the lore card talking about us rebuilding the black heart (the synthesised veil) and trying to use it to open a way into the traveller. The logs are most likely the vex detecting the reactivation of the black heart.
Are the Vex the Wintness' civilization before they merged into one? Did the Vex try to combine into one being but were lacking the paracausal powers?
Man, if everyone could make ads this fun and seamless I'd watch them just to support the creativity. (I mean, I do watch most of them to support the creators, but not every single time...)
The first clue to me in regards to the clues that pointed at the Black Garden was actually the mention of "Shadow and Mimicry" specifically *because* it was a failed copy of the Veil.
I think it’s Asher Mir broadcasting and quite possibly not even knowing if it’s being picked up. That being said I believe he is betting that Osiris, based on their similar experience with and shared intricate knowledge of the vex and their networks, would look in a handful of places believing the possibility of contact existed… and maybe then say set up equipment in various locations monitoring for any viable signals and coming across some sporadically in the form of scatter signals… 🤷♂️
I think it could be, but he did 'die' after the Avalon mission (the lore tabs indicate how). But, he also managed to do some impressive stuff, and spinfoil hat time: Maybe the Vex there had a copy of him for some reason since he did enter the Pyramidion, and that Asher copy tried to send some data out of a Neomuna access point or something.
Don't forget the traveler has also directly communicated through ghosts, screaming at rhulk to stop trying to claim the light before detonating a ghost
I know I'm late to the party here... But my guess is that it is Maya S.
I think you're spot on with the origin of the signal and it's location, and even it's intended recipient.
The reason I'm calling it for Maya, is because she is in the Vex network. The end of the Insight Terminus has dialog indicating she was messing around in Vex networks, and this lore is from The Red War. More recently she's been featured prominently in Neomuna lore, and conveniently went missing (I know it seems like she uploaded herself or something... but the point is, she disappeared from the city unexpectedly).
More spinfoily stuff now but....
In Starcrossed, the large Vex structure on the horizon is an exact replica of the Citadel on Venus. Down to the crappy low res renders. That could mean nothing on it's own, but it is odd to choose that specific structure. Add to this that at the end of Star Crossed, we have a Dreaming City portal above broken Dreaming City architecture that leads to a room that does not appear to be like the Garden (can't see for sure if it's inside it or not) that has the Ishtar symbol inside (and a cute kitty cat).
The Citadel, for those who don't remember or don't know, is where the "real" Maya sent the copies of her and her research team into the Vex Network to study them.
So the appearance of the Citadel, and of the Ishtar symbol in the Garden tells me something is up with her. That she's either doing something, or trying to tell us something. Or something is trying to tell us about her.
And given all that focus on her and her team lately, and how this lore tab is explicitly "Vexy" in it's style, but doesn't make sense as something Vex would "say".... I'm betting one of the Maya's in the Vex network sent it, or someone on her team. Or it is in some other way directly related to her or her team.
My assumption is that Crow is infiltrating within, and is simply dispatching information for us to decipher since he cannot physically relay that himself. Due to space and time being so different being in the pale heart, the only means of communicating is through the hexadecimal language. It reminds me of Interstellar where the only way Matthew(Joseph) could relay information to his daughter was through some form of code. Osiris is the one who received that code, and so we could likely interpret this as Crow divulging the plans of the enemy.
Ok yes, my first thought when I heard of receiving scatter signals was the veil. It’d make sense to be something that Osiris was studying. But another Idea.. shot in the dark here. No evidence at all but it’d be fun. Assuming its not the veil, and leaning more vex-ward, but some other party on neptune sent the signal. Perhaps, Asher? 👀 I know, I know. But cmon.
“Timeless structure” makes me think about the Witness’s monolith, personally.
Byf just doubled his LEGEND status with that promotion! Nice work!