When you said "a controversial yet forgettable video game" I spent a good half-minute trying to figure out what was wrong with LEGO Harry Potter on the Nintendo Wii, lol
@@cabbagecart-u3xits not being out of the loop harry potter for the wii was goated and nostalgic and hogwarts legacy was an uninteresting cultural flop outside of jos transphobia causing controversy and all together completely forgettable, harry potter on the wii was a lot of peoples childhoods
I’m a Wolfstar fan and the one thing I’ve always hated abt the Mauraders fandom was that gay poeple can be hot and cute UNLESS THEY ARE MIDDLE AGED SCRAGGLY MEN. LIKE WHY IS ALL THE FANART THEM AS TEENAGE TWINKS LET THEM BE MIDDLE AGED MEN THAT HAVE SEEN THE HORRORS!!!! Let middle aged Sirius Black wear a sexy cocktail dress too. Smh.
I feel like it's not a stretch to say the random is made up of women under 25 or of women who were teens of young adults when they got into it so it makes sense that they would imagine them as their peers.
I think because this fandom is mainly teenagers (me included)people make them their age to make them relatable and also most of them died before the second war. Also I do agree I want more of that content too
I think that the reason why people in the marauders fandom talk a lots about inclusivity and diversity is not because they think there are no representation of that in media, but because there are none in the canon. Like, literally, there are like four characters not white in all the book series and maybe one of them is really relevant for the plot, the other are mentioned once or two times and had zero personality :(
Which is the non white character which it’s important to the plot I guess either lavender she gets the most page time but not really that important and was made white even though a black actress had been playing the role before (stay classy Hp) Shackleton who gets mentioned a lot but doesn’t really do that much really or I think it’s Dean Thomas who is similar to lavender that he gets mentioned but doesn’t do anything main plot being Harry getting angry that Dean cares more about his family that school friends IIRC
Thing is though it’s Britain in the 90s and early 2000s so of course most of them will be English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish or Cornish maybe it’s not hard to understand not everywhere is California and that’s fine
@@goodbye7236 no not everywhere is America that’s true. I was just curious which was the character that they think is black that has a impact on the story because I can’t think of one. I have written multiple essays on HP mostly encouraging people to read other books!
@@goodbye7236 The history of people of colour in Britain is actually really fascinating! During and immediately after WW2, there was encouragement, through negating the need for visas, for people across the empire to move to Britain to serve as a cheap labour force. As such there was a large amount of immigration from places like India, Pakistan, and the Caribbean. These groups were often treated very poorly and their history has largely been erased in the popular historical narrative due to racism. Then during the economic boom of the 80s and 90s, there were additional waves of immigrants, particularly from Commonwealth countries such as Nigeria. Britain being such a generally wealthy country is also an attractive location for immigrants generally. This is the case in the modern but also stretching back in history. For example, London's Chinatown has its origin with Chinese dockworkers in the early 20th century which was then bolstered by immigrants from Hong Kong after WW2. The UK is an amazingly diverse country whose history is deeply tied up in imperialism and immigration! And on a less serious note, man it sure would've been nice of JK Rowling to have put in a single Welsh character.
they are actually referred to as the Marauders ONE TIME in canon, in the Half Blood Prince they're talking about the room of requirement and Ron says "Maybe the Marauders didn't know about the room."
Not quite true. The map has them call themselves "The Marauders" when introduce themselves, which is all four personalities of James, Sirius, Remus, and Peter. They called themselves "the marauders."
@@ellanaa9464 That's a good point I haven't even noticed before! Though it may also depend on the translation. In the Finnish translation the map's makers/original owners are unambiguously referred to in plural (the word is conjugated differently in singular vs. plural - "Kelmin" vs. "Kelmien" so there is no room for a minor oversight like with "Marauder's" vs. "Marauders'"). Though even then you technically could make an argument about if the marauders in question are the makers of the map or just all the little rascals who might put it in good use...
obsessed that after a decade, the 'james is indian descent' headcanon is still around i remember seeing the textpost that originated from, and how quickly it caught on the more things change the more they stay the same
@@alicefulloficebecause it doesn't make any sense??70s Britain was really really racist. What makes you think a Romani boy would be able to get way with how much shit james was able to get away with??
@@9eishitasharma501 babe. with peace and love, he is a wizard who died by a spell and in school he flew (flown.??) on a broom. the uk is notoriously racist, I agree, but as a roma, I think it's fun to imagine characters being romani, and also we are notoriously resilient lmao
i was into the marauders fandom in the mid-2010's and naturally drifted away from it/wholly disowned hp/jkr before the new marauders wave even became a thing, and it's been WILD to see what it has become. it's basically unrecognizable, lmao. i'm pretty sure i read some, if not most, of ATYD as it was still updating and i liked it fine, though i was very surprised to learn how big it'd become through tiktok during the pandemic. since that i've been kind of observing the fandom from afar, since i still hold nostalgia for what it was (as for many chronically online queer kids, i think reading fanfic had a significant part in my development) and also find it an interesting fandom to look at due to its nature as a... self-sufficient fandom? it's just, as i said, wild. the characterizations (for the characters that had any) are very different now, somehow james potter/regulus black is one of the biggest ships (???), and i have it on pretty good authority that a good portion of the fandom today has never even read the source books (not that i would like for them to). they could just as well be writing about some ocs at this point, lol. in some ways, though i'm not into it anymore, it does make me sad that the fandom and characters i used to know have been buried under these new versions i don't recognize (i feel like a grumpy old man complaining about kids these days, help. and i felt like i was late to the fandom at the time), and i'm definitely in the camp of "it's still under the hp franchise and as such it makes me uncomfortable". sorry for rambling! the marauders fandom and what happened to it has kinda become my roman empire, as they say. it's exciting to see an analysis video about it! your critiques of the fandom definitely hold true, and not just for the new iteration of it; it has a long history and it's never been without its problems. the aspect of rejecting canon to make the fan faves (the marauders) look better has always been there, though it's definitely increased wrt the tiktok wave. another related thing is the babygirlification of the death eaters, which is. something. although, as you mentioned, the fandom prides itself on its diversity and social justice, they in general don't seem as enthused about exploring the themes any deeper or in more meaningful ways. i too find the iterative fanonization of every part of it just, boring! the new people entering the fandom seem mostly quite young, so i don't want to be too mean. i hope they're having a good time and get similar things out of it as what i got a decade ago. i watch minecraft videos now as well so, no high horses here lmao
Thing is it’s always evolving. They are basically oc’s shaped by millions of people. As someone who fell in love with the marauders during 2020 and started with all the young dudes I can only imagine the characters like the are now. When read earlier fics it’s wild how different it is. Neither eras of the fandom are better or worse I don’t think. It’s just how different generations have made these characters their own. I think it’s beautiful that so many different people can see themselves in these characters. It’s like the fandom is growing up with us. I’m sure if the world hasn’t ended yet I will feel the same as you when the fandom inevitably dies down and has a resurgence 10 -15 years from now. The marauders is really it’s own thing apart from Harry potter at this point. I mean the second most popular fic after all the young dudes isn’t even set in the wizarding world. (Talking about crimson rivers which I LOVE!) I think it’s amazing that these groups of characters can exist and live in a million different stories and a million different universe written by a million different people. This is how the fandom never really gets stale. There is always something new.
@@Listen_to_me_talki'm glad you're enjoying it! and you're right, with long-going fandoms things are always evolving (though this case is next level lol). if i may ask since i don't really have a chance elsewhere, could you explain how jegulus became a thing? :D it's so out-of-nowhere from my pov since it wasn't even an ATYD thing, and i'd love to understand why it's so popular now!
yoooo thank you! im glad you liked the video-- it really helped me coalesce a lot of my thoughts and feelings on fanon and fandoms with really extensive fanon, something that is obviously a key part of the marauders fandom. also yes lol i didnt talk about jegulus at all but its actually BIZARRE in so many ways. i thinkkkkk the way that it happened was that it was part of a rare pair fic challenge of some part? or a big bang or other fandom event, and people just liked it so much from that that it became a staple of the fandom lol. that crimson rivers fic is one of the biggest marauders fics (and one of the most read on ao3 as well iirc). and yeahhh, i definitely had the relative age in mind while making this video -- that's part of why all the examples i showed were sooo anonymized. But at the same time, I think the general trends are both interesting and also present in other fandoms, and worth critically dissecting! (not that i think that you're saying theyre not or anything lol it just was something i thought a lot about during the making of this video) thanks again!
@@onelius I think Jegulus was more of a joke at first. I myself, even if I don't ship them, found the scenes of Sirius discovering Jegulus funny. But I think the thing that trully mad it that big is the arrival of new fans, especially Drarry fans : there is the ennemies to lovers dynamic and Regulus is kind of a marauder version of Draco (like, I swear sometimes they are the same character : the pretty, rich and tormented guy who become a Deatheater because of his family but intrasically doesn't want to).
@@potetoes8984I wouldn’t say they’re exactly the same, but the things you said definitely are true! I guess it comes down to the whole slytherin=evil no matter what thing, and people aren’t happy with that in general. so in that aspect Draco and Regulus largely go in the same direction character wise. But there’s also SO many differences. The Black household was miles more abusive towards their children while the Malfoys do have a lot of loyalty and love towards each other (not to discount the neglect Draco undergoes but it’s NOT on the same level). And it there’s one thing fandom always loves it’s a character being ✨ traumatised ✨. Regulus, as well, usually doesn’t get characterized as a bully the way Draco is. He’s friends with Ravenclaws, loves house elves, etc etc etc. Unlike the usual characterisation for Draco, people usually make him out to be a bit more self-aware or the whole blood purity bs thing-going along with it out of fear of abuse at the hand of his parents, but not believing in it at all (usually at least). Him having (or not having) Sirius also plays a huge in his character, unlike with Draco who never had anyone like that to look up to, feel abandoned by, to be protected by etc etc etc. Sirius, in essence, is the person who shook Regulus’ world view. (Plus, these aspects could also lead to Regulus trying to help Draco out because of similar experiences so yanno, plot) Hope that ramble gave some perspective!
At least from what I saw (as one of the Snape haters from early Marauders fandom) the main reason everyone hated Snape was because they kind of needed someone to hate for plot reasons, and he was really convenient. Since in canon the Marauders, especially James and Sirius, bullied Snape really badly when they were in school, in order to make them look like good guys still, Snape has to be a terrible person. He also worked as a good love rival for jily shippers, and wolfstar shippers did a lot with the canon story of Remus almost killing Snape while in wolf form and the drama that causes (and Snape generally knowing a big secret that would ruin Remus's life). But also lots of us were kids, I myself would've been 13 at the time, so the nuisance was a bit harder to comprehend when it came to complex characters like Snape. All this almost reminds me how funny the treatment of Peter was. Lots of people didn't want to include him because he literally betrays James and Lily in canon, so they sort of just left him out of Marauders stuff? Often he was basically just replaced by Lily. He was like the other Marauder we don't talk about.... I'm guilty of that too, I planned a whole fic about the Marauders where he's barely even mentioned. But then again, I didn't read much by way of fanfic, and I definitely wasn't on the more discourse-y side of the fandom like on tiktok, since this was back before it was "trendy".
I saw someone say that if the marauders didn’t bully Snape someone would’ve and he needed it. It feels like people who were a part of some “mean girls clique” found something nerdy they could enjoy but were only interested in the jocks
this is why i hated the marauders fandom as well. i love Remus and Sirius bc i believe they grew up and changed, for the most part like Snape. but jesus christ the absolute vitriol those fans have for Snape is insane. Sirius is never mentioned to have been abused but Snape was. they give Sirius endless grace but see Snape as scum no matter what. seems very mean girl-ish and hypocritical like Ghosts^ said previously
0:55 Yes, all of that. But how could you forget the most important piece of media produced from the Harry Potter fandom? The greatest fanfic of our time, “My Immortal”? Ebony Darkn’ss Dementia Raven Way should never be forgotten😔✌️
As someone who participated passively in Harry Potter fandom pre-2020, I actually read ATYD in 2018. I liked it for sure, it’s very well written and relatively thoughtful about the characters- but I was surprised to learn of its popularity on tiktok and even more surprised to learn that it had sprung a fandom of its own. I think there’s something to be said about a fanfiction becoming the “new canon” for a large amount of people- I wonder how many marauders fanfic authors these days actually deviate from the archetypes born out of atyd, and if they feel welcome in the community. Interesting video, thanks for your thoughts!
it's definitely interesting! I've seen lots of big fics in fandoms get heavily incorporated into fanon before, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen it happen to this extent! Thanks for watching!
I feel like it's important to note that a lot of the issues with Snape's bullying, is that Rowling simply couldn't find a way to justify Snape's hatred of James and translating it to Harry. So she pretty much just went for the most extreme she could. But also, in Canon Snape is an already mentally unwell teenager with the foundations of wizard n@zism. Combine that with the fact that he does actively shut talk the Marauders even before the bullying. And you have a relatively reliable excuse. Not enough to justify stripping him infront of half the school, but reliable nonetheless. Then he becomes super racist for a bit, uses the Wizarding equivalent of an ethnic slur. Then proceeds to hold Remus being a werewolf over their heads. Snape is like a massive asshole and Incel long before the bullying. Like Snape is the picture perfect example of unstable teenager from a bad home being pushed into the alt-right pipeline because of said home life.
I've been in a fandom like this. people seemed more interested in endlessly cannibalizing the characters into a homogenized soup of various identities that are never anything more than skin deep, and completely refuse to actually explore the themes of the source material or engage honestly with what is being presented to them, flaws and all. it's maddening. how can your work truly be transformative (or, dare i say good) if you refuse to engage honestly with the sandbox that you're playing in?
Pro tip: if you're using social media to research a subject you otherwise have no interest in, make an alt account to avoid destroying your own algorithm beyond recognition lol Edit: I swear this wasn't intended as an afterthought but this was a very thoughtful and well-executed essay, thanks for the time you put into it.
I accidentally refreshed the home page before clicking on this video and i think i just destroyed my algorithm looking for it😭 (I don't really watch harry potter content)
As well written as this video was I miss the days when videos were made by people who were actually interested in the subject and not just people trying to pay rent :/
I remember a marauders on TikTok commented on a trans woman's video (who said in the video she was a trans woman) saying she looked like "fem Sirius Black" then flipped out at her when she took offense to being compared to a male character written by a transphobe.
Jegulus makes absolutely no sense baha back in my time it made up around 600 fics that were mostly remorselessly made fun of. I’m astonished at how prevalent it has become. Regulus was mostly paired with Barty/OCs/Sirius (lol) back then all of which! somehow make more sense than Jegulus. Also Jily forever, they’re everything and always were.
i feel like sometimes jegulus is just jily but gay (because some people like to fetishize gay people, i guess) hm. a cool smart person. bad relationship with sibling. hate eachother to lovers. where have i heard this before??? (james and lily did not die fighting death eaters just to be shipped with them 💢💢💢)
Jegulus started as a crack ship but people realized it hit the jackpot of troops in Fanfiction ex:" enemies to lovers, Best friend brother, grumpy X sunshine, forbidden relationship and tragic ending
Not a fan of jegulus either but ships don’t have to make sense. Back in the day we used to ship Rapunzel and Hiccup, look up Rise of the brave tangled dragons, people nowadays always have to have logic and only the best ethics behind their ships
I’m a diehard Marauders fan, and Regulus is my favorite character. It can be quite difficult to find good fics of him that don’t feature Jegulus. I really really do not care for it. As for Wolfstar I have nothing against it but I don’t really understand the appeal
My only issue with the Marauders fandom is specifically the implications of the Snape's worst memory chapter of order of the phoenix. Those boys literally did a sexual assault on somebody in front of half of school. If it weren't for that my personal feelings about loving them as characters would be very different. I personally agree that the initial chemistry and implication, having extremely recently relistened to previously owned audiobooks, of lupin and sirius' interactions and living arrangements is that they were definitely dating and rekindled the relationship when sirius got out of prison and was proven innocent. I both think that what they did to Snape was horrendous and horrific, and I really enjoy exploring the dynamic between lupin and sirius given their very opposing demeanors and personality types.
My biggest annoyance at the marauders fandom (apart from the superiority complex and puritanical way of approaching characters) is the incessant need to spam “sirius black” “remus lupin” “james potter” comments under every video on tik tok that has a person who even slightly resembles their headcanon of these characters.
sadly the marauders fandom is SEVERELY unwelcoming to ships that get in the way of wolfstar or jegulus people worship these 2 ships and are sometimes aggresive to people who dont like the ships. Aswell as being an opinionated space ive found sometimes people tend to fetishize the mlm ships in the fandom and it really riles me up. (sorry for the awful spelling and grammar)
and as someone who doesn't even ship those two. I get very intimidated by people that do cause fr they get real aggressive as if they expect everyone in the fandom to also ship them
literally! I left the fandom because I shipped blackinnon. I was like thirteen at the time and getting death threats because I didn't ship a certain thing
I remember people being mad at some girl who was making a fancast for marauders and cast a non plus sized woman as Mary. And I’m like. Firstly, who the fuck is Mary? She’s not mentioned more than once in the books? Like at all? And therefore has no canon body type? And the people who get say shit like “that’s so Regelus coded” NO IT ISNT BC REGELUS HAS NO LINES IN THE BOOKS
She is mentioned as Lilly's best friend in the books. And obviously if you don't read the fanfic you can't understand but that goes for all the fandoms. The marauders is a subgroup of Harry Potter but also has his own representation of characters who are only mentioned once. And for the Mary fancast I'd say some people are not okay, but I could argue that there's crazy people in every fandom
"I would just prefer that we not lie about it to make ourselves feel better about something that other people think is cringe" & "When you elevate fandom to the same level as activism, you treat every misstep as a much more serious issue than it has to be" both very good points love the way you talk about fandom Also I just so detest the habit of fanon overwhelming canon I'm glad you talked about the ways it can create issues of interpretation and is just shitty at times
YIPPEE yeah im happy with those lines i think they got across what i was trying to say without being tooooo dense and academic although i cannot say the same for the video as a whole alksjdfkl
I agree as I see it quite a lot in many other fandoms. Especially in the younger audience of a fandom of a show that was not made for them at all. So many of the things I see being treated as “canon” are actually fanon and whenever there is a disagreement between people because one or both sides are arguing with fanon interpretations and treating it as canon is so disheartening and very disappointing (I feel like an adult watching their kids argue about their favorite toys when I say this and see it) because the fight is just ultimately pointless. Edit: Whenever I see a fanon interpretation go viral, I often find that it misses the mark/point of why and how the character came to be. Making them so one-dimensional rather than accepting the nuances that already exist in the character. It’s like butchering the character into bits and taking the parts you like and putting it together like a deformed plush.
Hearing that the Maraduers fandom mainly happened on TikTok, when you were reading Marauders fanfic around 20 years ago lol. Anyone else remember the great Livejournal fanfic/fanart crisis, when underage content was banned? What a time to be alive.
My current marauders fandom takes place on Tumblr and adult only Discord servers, I checked out the edits on TikTok and they were cool, though they started to get repetitive after a while, and when the fandom discourse started showing up in my feed I ran away so fast. I hide in my curated corners of fandom and it's much nicer there.
From an older Wolfstar fan : naaaaah, it had started BEFORE GOF. Like, straight from PoA!! It was so obvious when reading PoA (for some of us at least XD )
well, there will always be an audience for ANY ship, so i don't doubt it at all! its just that most sources ive seen agree that gof is where it really started to have a real audience, which obviously might've had to do with the popularity of the books increasing over time as well!
I never was a part of the marauders fandom but since I was very into Harry Potter growing up and liked wolfstar as a ship I was in the general fandom vicinity. I mostly drifted away after everything that came up about jkr, with the exception of keeping in touch with a couple authors and fans from the spanish side and randomly saw it back when it became viral on tiktok because a friend kept sending me edits she found funny. It ruined my fyp just like it ruined yours (rip both of us) but it made me feel kind of icky about the whole fandom, at least the tiktok one. For one, being a fandom who loves saying how diverse and super progressive they are I saw recommendations for plenty of "Jegulus" fanfics that had Lily as little more than a surrogate to the new trendy gay male couple (which is disgusting). Plus I saw some of the newer fans being critical of the original famous fancasts (which were all white) to a point of being hateful towards older fandom members who still used those in their edits. Which I think is a weird hill to die on given that, while I love diverse fancasting, the original characters are in fact white and come from a series that treat its not white characters like shit. I feel like it has one of the problems that many popular fanfoms deal with and its that at its core it doesn't care about anything other than pretty (mostly gay) boys. The female characters are an afterthought, plenty of fics and headcanons just pair two female characters with barely anything in common so they can give their original male partners they gay ship they want without being told they're removing the girl from the plot (they do this to Lily a lot). They also seem to internally dislike any character that isn't greek god level beauty. Peter is not left out of the plots because he's evil, it's because he's fat and ugly. Usually people who make fix it fics and include him in their stories as a proper character fancast/describe him as a good looking boy that is maybe just a little bit chubby. Because just like jkr herself, they hate ugliness and can imagine a good character being ugly. Although this was a problem in the older fandom too, not just the newer one. They make characters who have 0 lines of dialogue main characters, but most of the time this only applies to male characters. Yes they've made personalities for non important female ones, but in most fics they're background or supporting characters. Meanwhile Regulus has an entire subsection of a fandom of his own. None of this is exclusive to the marauders fandom, but you don't see other fandoms claiming to be free of this then committing it the way they do. So for me the fandom went from something I would sometimes engage in to something I would never want to be involved with again.
I don’t like when fans start treating headcanons as canons. Blurring the lines by bringing up something in canon alongside something that is purely fan interpretation is confusing, but when you go out of your way to chew out people who don’t follow your fan canon of events? That’s where a line should be drawn and I wish more fans realise that not everyone will know about their niche fan canon and not everyone will accept it, and that’s fine.
This is why I'm afraid of joining the fandom, because the fans seem to be VERY obsessed with these "canon" fanfictions like ATYD. I'm afraid of trying to write my own fanfics because of this fear, that the fans will come at me and point out that my headcanons don't align with headcanons of the majority of the community
The marauders fandom really doesn't like it when I point out that their faves weren't good people. Like they be out here villainizing Snape when really it was the opposite as James and gang minus Remus bullied him.
@@marti9734I mean yeah, he was a horrible person, but they bullied the shit out of him when he was a literal child, before he really did anything to remotely deserve it. He was just a kid. And there were pretty classist undertones to how James and Sirius (trust fund babies/old money) treated him.
hey! just wanted to add my perspective into the mix as someone who HAS consumed a lot of marauders content. i really appreciated this video, the commentary you make is very valid and I agree with a ton of it, especially the bit about the fandom & the activism they pride themselves on. i should also say that although I have had marauders tiktok across my feed etc I am not super involved with the fandom as a collective, but have read quite a few of the major fanfics out there. with the snape thing, i agree with you that especially in fics where the setting takes place as teens at hogwarts, his trauma should not be overlooked. however, it is also (especially in fics that take place with older characters in au's!) important to consider his actions as an adult in canon. the man practically bullied harry for years, and his weird obsession with lily and taking out all of his anger out on an 11 yo are not okay things. (he also bullied neville and called lily a slur and though you could bring up his redemption arc it doesn't really change his actions - and that's not even bringing up the fact he also was a death eater). now, obviously this is not a reason to overlook his trauma. however, especially as an adult, he has faults. i think that a lot of au fics, especially by the immensely popular author bizarrestars (formerly known as zeppazariel- I'm not going to get into the fandoms treatment of them but that's another interesting thing if you want to look into it) but other authors as well do really well is showing characters faults while keeping them still human and complex characters. in bizarrestars 800k fic (haha if you thought atyd was long...) crimson rivers, a hunger game au that is quite possibly my favorite piece of media ever and one i think about daily, snape is shown in his double agent role between (president of the hallow) tom riddle and (resistance leader) dumbledore and his perspective is so interesting to read and while not my favorite character, still a very well characterised and thought out one. as for the ethics of the fandom, that is something i have debated with myself a lot. i think that like every fandom, there are sides to it that i think are really positive and sides that i think arent so good. i think you covered the negative ones really well, but i do think there are positive sides out there. one thing that i would encourage you check out is the rise of the order, which is a group of marauders fans currently making a fan film. this will be free and not for profit, and i just think that they are a great example of people making some content within the universe that so many people love without benefitting jk rowling. if i think of more things to add i might, this was kind of a random tangent that didn't totally relate to your video so I'm sorry for that haha! i really did appreciate your commentary!
hmm yeah my point was less to defend snape (obviously he does bad things in canon) and more to point out that its a weird choice to basically NEVER mention that in analysis of the character and to almost ALWAYS mention it in analysis of another character when its not even canon. its less that people aren't right to criticize snape, and more that its frustrating to see people (in many different fandoms and many different places in life) demonstrate that they are incapable of analysis incorporating any nuance and instead flatten the issue to "characters i like are always victims (which can explain any of their wrongdoings) whereas characters i don't like are always aggressors and never have had anything bad happen to them." and this goes not just for fic but for popular discussion and portrayal of the characters in any kind of fan content. and in terms of the positives of the fandom, honestly much of what i see is the same as any fandom -- people finding a sense of belonging, finding outlets for creativity -- obviously these are wonderful i just find them less interesting! this wasn't really meant to be a full exploration of the fandom in total, but more of a moral and ethical consideration of a fandom that's at the crossroads of a lot of really thorny ethical issues! thanks for watching, hope that all made sense!
@@theunreliablenarratorshow interesting, i appreciate your response! i fully agree with you on the frustrating-ness on not including complexity/nuance in characters, and I think rereading my original comment I did not get my point across which is while though those are my problems with the fandom in its entirety, especially on social media platforms which is why I don't participate there, I think that the most popular of the fanfics such as the ones by bizarrestars, actually do a really good job of highlighting the nuances of ALL characters, including snape. my point to commenting was just offering the other side, but I do not disagree with you!! !! !! !! (please hear me)!! !! this is a conversation i have had with myself many time- these characters are so incredibly important to me but i do not agree with jkr or really most of the hp fandom in general and for those reasons do kinda wish the universe' appeal would just die out. however, i think that marauders fics do a good job of branching from it. its interesting to me because most of my favorite fics are just these characters that mean so much to me but literally do not have anything to do with the premise of harry potter, and if someone who had never watched or interacted with that universe i believe they could enjoy it as the masterpiece it is, which is kind of where I'm at with the fandom myself and whether i really want to participate or not. hopefully this makes sense, i am just voicing my on the fenceness more than anything else I'm sorry my words aren't more academic! an example of the fics im kind of talking about is art heist, baby! by otrtbs which you might have to be signed in to view. genuinely changed my life and wrecked me. this is also unrelated but more to your video, if you want to check out a really good canon compliant sapphic centered fic, the hand that feeds by rollercoasterwords is an incredible one. (ps I am not a fan of atyd!! it was my introduction to the fandom and i have read it, but i find there to be a lot of issues in it. just wanted to put that out there)
I like wolfstar as a pairing and read fanfics about them a lot. What I never understood was the pairing of James/Regulus. Like, WHERE DID IT COME FROM? You might as well just write a fanfic about two OCs bc in what world are these two canonical characters are going to be together? It reflects the general problem I have with marauders fanfic writers making every single character from that timeline gay, regardless of whether their pairing makes sense or not. I get trying to add representation to a fandom that originally does not have any, but adding gay characters just for the sake of them being gay feels almost like fetishization
I’m heavily involved in the Marauders fandom, and let me tell you, if someone actively defends James, Peter, Sirius, and Remus AND hates Severus, almost everything they say is going to be from fanfiction, it’s most likely going to be filled with antisemitism, ableism, classism, and victim blaming mentality. Antisemitism, and Classism is something that is huge in Severus’s character because of what was singled out on him, and that’s what they insult. I’ve also noticed they make the main 4 POC so that they can say their actions and insults weren’t rooted in racism or classism. Hell, the SA Severus, but nobody takes it seriously and writes it off as “boys being boys.” How people treat fictional characters gives me insight on how they treat others, and I’m horrified about this stuff
Omg THIS,like its very frustrating (as someone who enjoys snape content and a bit of marauders content) because alot of marauders content I see most is just from some fans who just all hate severus and excuse the marauder's behaviour "snape deserved it because he was into death eater stuff,and also jaja nose joke and hes poor" "he was abusive and obsessed with lily,he deserved what happened to him,james did nothing wrong" as someone who likes severus I can admit he does many wrongs (speaking of his actions during his youth) but I dont get how some people just pile on him to hate him and then in the same breath praise the marauders for their wrong doings,none of them are saints
@@kaorimeri8429 It's because all of the people who say stuff like that either have a mean girl fantasy or they are mean girls (metaphorically.) The issue people have is realizing morality isnt black and white. You can be nice and not good. I think the marauders are almost kinda like a cool celeb, while snape represents a crippling reality we don't want to face as well. These factore i feel like play into things
Yeah, even by making them POC, it still doesn't erase the sheer classism since Sirius and James are Old Boys Club levels of rich. It's also an aspect that bothers me about the books because we SEE the Marauders going after Snape, the poor kid with zero actual connections and safety net, and yet it's crickets when it comes to other baby Death Eaters who ARE from actual prominent families and have the money and resources to deal with the Marauders on an equal level. You don't even get an offhand "oh, yeah, Rosier had a really good right hook" or something. That always smacked of sheer cowardice, from where I was standing, those "brave boys" weren't really fighting against a system so much as using the whole political powder keg that was happening at the time as an excuse to bully the poor kid with the big nose while rationalizing that this somehow made them into "heroes." In a way, this reflects similarly how many parts of fandom basically steal/use leftist rhetoric as a way t bully and dogpile on people while trying to look heroic or some such rot. Basically, there's a lot of Mean Girls bullshit in fandom, which explains so much about how they try so hard to erase the fact that the Marauders were bullies. (You could also make the argument that Lily herself had zero sense of class solidarity, since she was willing to take "James rescued Severus" at face value and NOT listen to him when he tried to tell her that it was not what it seemed... heck, she was so checked out of the relationship, that she didn't even bother to find him and ask "what the hell happened that James Potter had to save you?!", SEVERUS had to be the one to seek her out) Basically... there's a LOT of classism and lack of solidarity and Mean Girl bullshit baked into the series.
@ YESS!! you’re so right! I heard someone say covid gave an opening for “mean girls” in fandom without being judged. What you said also parallels real life. The background of people affects how others treat them, and in turn what they become. Someone can have a terrible background but with support turn out iksy
The way they treat the poor half-blood boy as the devil to justify the bullying and manipulation he suffered has made me so disconnected by the fandom because of how icky it is. And specially the people who say Severus was not a victim because he fought back, and it was "mutual rivalry". IT WAS LITERALLY A 4 VS 1!!!! WHAT ARE THESE PPL ON ABOUT?????
To be honest not all the fans are that extreme. The Marauders fandom is more like a vibe. It is a concept that everyone has there different opinion on. But I mean, it is fun. It is basically Harry Potter with more diversity. Though, I think if you enjoy the Marauders it is likely you enjoy other queer shows as well.
"Harry Potter with more diversity" was not my takeaway. Like she said, it's super surface-level and obviously not a real consideration. I don't think I've ever seen fancasts that weren't a parade of factory-printed white boys.
@@GreylockMountainTakeaway from the video or from your own experience within the fandom? The points she makes in the video are valid, and I share some of her opinions too, but they’re also quite opinionated and to be honest, it doesn’t sound like she has read a lot of the longer, more complex works of the fandom. (Which is totally fine, but it definitely limits the extend of what you understand in terms of the fan space). I do however, think it’s really important to consider that everyone experiences fandom differently, and while I certainly have MANY qualms with the Marauders fandom as someone who’s been involved for far too long, it’s a safe space for so many people. I can understand if someone’s in the fandom and has “controversial” opinions, because they are also in the space, and know what it’s like, but it’s admittedly difficult to listen to someone who isn’t directly involved in it make so many judgements. If you get what I mean lol (i’m just adding my two cents, not trying to pick a fight at all)
i think that my personal biggest gripe with the marauders fandom as an outsider (and a hater) is how they always try to slither into things and mostly videos that have nothing to do with HP and expect everyone around them to agree? like i cannot tell you the amount of times ive went to the comments on a 'come on eileen' tiktok and saw ppl going "omgggggg this is soooooo remus sirius james coded!!!11!!1" same thing with Anything david bowie related and i know this sounds petty but it makes my blood Boil. i think that because they dont really have any actual source material to cling to they try to gather pieces of completely unrelated things to try and add it to their already weak web of "canon marauders stuff" and everyone around just has to like. deal with them. idk it just really annoys me and kind of reminds me of how back in 2020-2021 dnf fans would take literally Any post with the colours blue and green or the song heatwaves and make it about them and i think that this marauders shit is just our 2024 equivalent of that so maybe thats why it annoys me sm? but yeah anything harry potter related being praised and spread around in the year of our lord 2024 makes me iffy
People always say that they think the marauders fandom is so welcoming since its all headcannons. That is until you dont think the death eaters should be babied and is characterized until there nothing more then softy uwu gay trans boy, covered in tats gay with dyed hair, and blonde top pandoras twin who didnt deserve to die. Or that you think that jilly is better than jegulus since jegulus is incest,james would hate and bully regulus, and it states very clearly in the books how james only had his eyes on lilly. And they also for some strange reason think regulus got beat and abused more than sirius. But sirius was the trouble kid who stood up for himself and others. While regulus followed the family rules and adored voldumort. They also for some reason think that eegulus was forced into being a death eater. But thats just simply not true. His parents werent even death eaters,so why would they force him into it??? And when its a sirius black angst vid,all people yap about is how sorry they are for regulus! Byw if you cant tell regulus is my least fav marauder for various reasons. They also narrow Sirius down to being dumn and weak even though he is probs the second smartes marauder and litteraly solved his friends murder in less then a week plus is proven to be the strongest marauder, they make james a softy who would never hurt a fly even though he can and will if you are mean to his friends or even just a random person. They make remus to just be a gay wherewolf with anger issues and they honestly just totally forgot about peter and how he used to be kind.
My biggest thing about the marauders fandom is that maybe because despite everything they are still an old fandom rooted in a series full of prejudice written by a bigoted woman is that I think a lot of it still has the peak of early 2010's fandom misoginy. Not to say fandom doesn't still have a huge problem with how it treats woman to nowdays but I really think people are trying to move from it except for them as well as the way their manifest it is more similar to old fandom missoginy. The saphic pair that rarely gets any attention and only exist to be supportive of the main m/m pair - a lot of times taking the caretaker role - (dorlene), the dismissal or even villanization of any woman that can be seen as a "problem" for the main m/m pair (it used to be Tonks and now it is Lily) where she either doesn't exist, has as ony personality trait be a ship cheerleader or is actually secretly abusive. Like at this points the characthers are all colectivally created ocs, you can't even blame JK own misoginistc writing anymore.
as a trans person. I don't care HOW detached from canon you say your sub fandom is for this au, it's still originated and connected to the terf books. I had someone act like this fandom au and ocs are original work... like no they're not. please, just write your own books at this point. you cannot blame any trans person for being uncomfortable with this sub fandom and it's fans, no matter how much you try to detach it from jkr
I agree. If you support the Harry Potter fandom, you support J.K. Rowling and her bigotry. There is no way to separate the art from the artist when the artist specifically says that any support of her art validates and supports her views.
It's disheartening how fast I clicked on your video, because the wolfstar fandom used to be such a home to me. I remember I got really into it when i was 17 - i was queer, and poor, and i really loved the way remus lupin was portrayed, i saw myself in him in a way. a lot of the fics i scrolled past or even read were a bit shit from a literary point of view, but a few of the works i read completely changed my outlook on queerness and what it meant to be out. i also honestly loved how the narrative was influenced by the ever looming threat of war, even the fics that didn't mention it were still about it in a way ; and i spent long nights on the fics that went deep into how dangerous organizations ensnare young people and pit them against each other. it felt incredibly real, in a way the original books never really had, to me. they wrote better than jk by far i never completely understood how and why i stopped reading wolfstar. maybe i got too old. can't eternally read about 15yo kids who have homework and a bedtime, can you, you have to jump to other fandoms eventually, you grow old. i still think the themes were worth reading and writing about, and i'm still grateful for the authors. not grateful for jkr though, obviously. ultimately someone else, a less horrible person, would have published a book that would have helped me similarly. the love and fun i got from hp and its fandoms were not worth the strain on trans people worldwide.
I hate the way marauders fans hate Snape. He's meant to be a morally grey character and the marauders fans can't handle that, they go with the atyd view of him which is not cannon, basically him and remus' background were switched and so people think snape is someone with no background. not saying his background is grounds for defense of his treatment of some of his students, its not but it explains a lot of what he does, bad and good. its important to his character that he was abused and came from an unloving household and its equally as important that he was hard core bullied by the marauders. They like the marauders even though they sexually harass snape and try to kill him and almost end up succeeding but cry when their told their beloved characters are the reason snape is such an asshole at times/ most of the times we see him on screen.....like if I were to say im a snape fan to a marauders fan I would be lectured and made fun of which is rich coming from them....
Yes ! I like atyd (like really really) but the way the marauders are acting is still not ok in the canon You can write, read work on not perfect characters, on grey characters because it can be really great but why the need to just refuse the canon version so much that you go angry and all about other people liking other characters like ?
Not to be a buzz kill... but there's a reason Lily married James instead of Snape... like, yes, both the marauders and Snape were not v good guys. But! 1 Snape called Lily a slur 2 Snape joined the basically wizard n4zis 3 James grew up and became a responsible adult Lily fell in love with while Snape stayed in his Nice Guy mentality 4 the ONLY reason Snape defected from Voldy is not because he suddenly realised that killing people for something they have no choice over, but instead because he realised Voldy was going to kill the woman he still had a crush on. At least 4 years after she firmly rejected him. 5 he had no problem with Voldy killing James and Harry, an innocent baby, Lily was where he drew the line. If Voldy had chosen to kill the Longbottoms instead Snape would have stayed right by his side 6 for the 17 years after Lily's death that he still got to live he didn't get over his crush and bullied children. Resulting in: this is not a morally grey character, this is a nice guy who joined a group of extremists because the woman he liked didn't like him back and he only "redeemed himself" by doing what his boss told him, his boss who was the only person keeping him out of prison for joining the group of extremists. The marauders fandom isn't cruel to Snape, they are disillusioned with the idea of him being secretly a good guy just because he wasn't as evil as previously believed
@@lola_zo-elfirst of, I hate snape, second, no-one is born evil. You are referring to things snape did way after the time this fandom usually focuses on. Snape's background as well as the bullying he received shaped him into the character he is as an adult. I totally agree with your thoughts about his relationship with Lili. But isn't the way that the extensive bullying from James and Sirius shaped him something interesting to explore or at least mention?
@lola I agree with all your points about Snape but I will say that it’s still very weird that Lily chose someone who canonically harassed her for years and would not take no for an answer, and bullied someone who used to be her friend. Like I understand that James did change but it feels like Lily was treated as a prize for him changing, and not someone who would rightfully not want anything to do with him or Severus.
I joined the Marauders fandom in 2020, I wouldn't say I'm part of it any more, but I do know that the criticisms about f/f ships and women in general are already discussed in the fandom, a lot of people just do not care, or only pretend to. There's a lot of "I wish we had more Dorlene or Marylily fics" but not a lot of "I'm going to write a Dorlene or Marylily fic". It's brought up often, makes the rounds every couple months, but no one really does anything about it. As for the JKR stuff, in 2020 when all of her bigotry became more well known, people were renouncing her actively, whereas nowadays it's considered a given that a marauders fan does not support JKR, so she isn't talked about, down to people calling her "she who must not be named", which has stopped educating new people coming in about why she is disliked. I've seen what must be newer members of the fandom posting about how "they" should make a Marauders tv show, or films, or something by JKR, who either don't know or don't care about why she's so hated, or just thought it was "cancel culture's fault". Very well researched and scripted video
The lesbian relationships in the marauders often aren’t the main ship because the main characters the story’s revolves around is the marauders, aka: Sirius, Remus, James, and Peter. They are the main characters so the most popular ship will involve them in some way. Examples: Sirius/Remus James/Lily James/regulus James/sirius/remus James/sirius James/lily/regulus etc (Peter is usually Asexual/Aromantic in fandom so he doesn’t have really any ships.)
It feels fishy as most unlikeable character (peter) is made asexual/aromatic just to not be left out of narrative, because everyone collectively chose that they don't like writing relationships with him 🫠
@@merunesdrazor Yep, Peter is ugly. That's literally the only reason he's ignored. As you can tell, no one will ever cop to this. It's just very convenient that the one character no one is attracted to can not only safely be left out but also be pointed to as additional "represenation" - two birds with one stone.
@@merunesdrazorFun fact, JKR described Voldemort as being "fully asexual" by the end of the series, because he had destroyed his soul so badly so... that's another thing lmao ughhhh.
I got in to the Marauders fandom in 2013, so by 2020 I was passed it and wasn't even reading fanfiction. Its crazy to hear how the Marauders fandom "started" in 2020 on tiktok when I imagine the majority of us have actually been knocking around for a decade at this point?
hi, as I mentioned in the video, I'm aware that marauders fans have been around for a long time! I am talking about the viral TikTok phenomenon of the marauders fandom, particularly as a fandom that defines itself as almost completely separate from and in full opposition to basically every other aspect of Harry Potter. Apologies if that wasn't completely clear in the video - there's a lot I couldn't get to if I didn't want the video to be hours long lol
@theunreliablenarratorshow hi! I thought it was clear - I just think that the Marauders fandom has completely evolved over the years in to what it is now! Would love to see a longer video on the evolution of the Marauders fandom, as I bet you can split it up into eras (early days, Tumblr era where the fan casts of Ben Barnes, Andrew garfield and Aaron Taylor Johnson started, ATYD, the fall out of the tik tok boom, and where we are now). Not many fandoms have such distinct eras I think! X
Girl in the middle you just started to speak in Portuguese (Boa sorte para aprender português)…..honestly from my point of view as an old marauders fan I was a fan of everything around it: the og fan cast and the REAL stuff they did. The 70s vibe, the lore people were creating with their creativity was phenomenal and giving a new life to the fandom of hp. It has gone way beyond me and I’ve outgrown it however it’s real fun to see how far it has gone and how people turned it into jk Rowling biggest nightmare (which very well done) this is a slap in the face for her and I love it Also is there any marauders fanfic that Jackson want throws a party?
Is wild how kids, teens and even adults that are fans of the atyd universe (as how i will call this fandom stuff) and that supousedly care about diversity and justice decided to take the work of a fascists to made their stuff in place of deconstruct the work and see it in other lens that authors and some fans have being see it or find real leftiest works made my people that is not white european/usamerican and probably middle class or upper class. Then they go and make popular of jk work again, go to the parks, buy merch, and in general feed the algoritm. I get old fans that pirate stuff, aren't reactionary about the books (specially the ones that didn't put jk in a pedestal ever and had critical thinking skills), and don't give money to the women nor the companies, but the new generations that see themselves as more progressive and "inclusive"? like wut? I mean, not surprised they are usa ppl in tiktok, but stil, you know. And is beyond dissapointing how even new generations prefer things that are part of the mainstream media and already famous and popular. Sad that ppl chose things based in popularity and mainstream status fully on board with capitalist media, then speak about justice and diversity, and war conflicts
Oh the Sirius, Snape debate...the constnat annoyance of my fandom existance. I think their's like a parallel side of the marauder's fandom, that'S the dark marauder's fandom, where there's suddenly charcters like Severus, Evan Rosier, Mulciber, Regulus Black, Lucius and Narcissa Malfoy, Bellatrix and so on, that are very important. And in that side of fandom. The Snape, Sirius conversation is the entire other way around. I really think it's a bit annoying, over all. Especially since these two characters are technically on the same side, but you will rarely find a fic where they're willing to work together. The part about fanon ideas being seen as practically canon, I think is quite common in all fandom. And it's mostly annoying, when it gets thrown into actual discussions about canon, partially because it's almost impossible to untangle. Like the idea that Sirius was abused takes its cues from canon, so it's hard to convincingly argue against it, because there's just enough canon in it.
One of the points in Harry Potter is that people aren't noble or wicked, but have good and bad things. When attempting to simplify some of the characters in the series, the Marauders Fandom ends up creating their own version of the characters in the original series and makes them either excellent people who are the personification of good and endured a lot in their lives (adding to their goodness) or just pure evil, who have no justification for being the way they are. This makes me believe the fandom is made up of superficial people who are not interested in understanding good and evil better. Instead they are like children, and they decide what happens to the characters so in the end they conform to their expectations. I'm afraid I was a bit confusing, but what I thought by watching this video was that 1) they are extremely woke and keep trying to find some sort of villain to look like victims (just as they did with the JKR hatred) and 2) they are superficial and ignorant people who stick to their comfort zones and their sugarcoated vision of a perfect universe, where people are either completely good or completely evil.
i think it's funny how you mention that it's problematic that snape is so hated by the marauders fandom when i know there are (or at least were? it's been a while since i was into hp) MANY snape stans out there, they're just a separate fandom entirely
canon marauders would bully their fanon version + the fanon fans. just look at how they treated the one weird kid who was most queer coded (imo), snape. edit. and im not saying its wrong for people to have headcanons or go off canon. do what makes u happy. but it is still kinda funny. and sometimes bit annoying when they forget canon and make baseless claims.. i cant see my reply but basically. a man forced to wear womens clothes due to poverty. long hair. feminine hand writing. only female friends. bullied for bein weirdo aka q*eer in their times.
@@floofiee @jeevansoggi6527 quoting from tumblr post as i suck in writing and phrasing my thoughs. " wearing his mothers clothes as a child (he was made fun of this by petunia) having a ‘feminine handwriting’ and often being mistaken for a girl because of it (as shown by harry, hermione and ginny in the books and movies) how SWM (an incident where he was publicly exposed in front of the entire school) was his worst memory when he has many others (witnessing the domestic abuse of his mother, being whipped by his father, growing up dirt poor in the slums, almost getting murdered) could read as trans coded in so many ways how he was dressed in women’s clothing as a way at to laughed at when he was Neville’s boggart (which could also read as trans coded due to JK Rowling’s obvious hatred for trans people) in addition, he was never once shown or seen to say or do anything remotely suggesting that he was homophobic,--- severus snape was queer, not necessarily in terms of sexuality in canon, but in terms of who he was. he was a dirt poor half blood with an abusive alcoholic father, grew up in the slums, went to hogwarts which in every definition of the word was an elite private school that catered to pureblood nepo babies. severus didn’t have a dime to his name. he was dirty and poor and odd and queer." in my bi eyes he is bi aka queer af, but yeah i project my bi-ness into all my faves. haha. also no him being forced fem does not make him sexually or gender queer, but in the eyes of queerphobes, he is queer.
FINALLY! Someone else who disapproves of this appalling fandom. i was honestly beyond shocked when i first found out they were a thing... it's legit a fandom glorifying bullies. From HP, a fandom where the protagonist Harry was bullied at home and at school.... how did this even happen?! And how have we twisted the story of James the bully and Snape the victim so much as to now victim-blame a lonely canonically abused boy? It's no wonder Snape didn't grow up well-adjusted! He was abused at home as well as at school. No therapy whatsoever or anyone to talk to. Of course he got dragged into Voldemort's group. What's James's excuse? Spoiled popular rich kid who got the girl. lol. I hate James. T‸T Like Snape, I'm glad he died. The Harry raised by that monster as well as his complacent mum wouldn't be the Harry we all know and love. He'd have grown up spoiled & rich, having a lot more in common with Draco Malfoy lol.
I really love your video and i agree with most of the points. I have no idea why, maybe it’s just my character, but I can’t really fall in love with this fandom because i saw many toxicity in it. I understand about the denial of canon, it throws me off often. One thing that is hard to swallow for me is the hatred of Dumbledore, who was my favourite as a kid. And Marauders fandom threw every good bit of him from canon and chose to see only manipulation and coldness. Thank you for the video again, it was nice to hear different perspectives
Sometimes I feel like the Marauders fandom could go even further in separating their fandom from JK Rowling's work by renaming the characters and everything else connected to Harry Potter and just fully turning the characters into OCs. Like the deoncelerization thing that happened to a lot of characters from Onceler roleplays once that fandom started dying down. A bit of a weird example but it's one of the only things I could think of other than SML after getting copyrighted by Nintendo, and I don't know which of those examples is weirder. But I think it's a good idea, less association with TERFs and more freedom of what to do with the characters, in a kind of Goncharov-like way. And I say this as a member of a small but also HP-adjacent fandom (the A Very Potter Musical fandom), which is a lot less reliant on fanon because we have three whole musicals to work off of, but is also, as a parody, already very different from Harry Potter. Still very connected to the Harry Potter francise, though, and I get sad when I remember that.
that's a really interesting idea! I don't think I've ever heard of anything quite like that happening before, but I agree that it would be really cool to see!
@@KOTEBANAROT They could use keys for the names like chatfics do. The process would take time, it wouldn't be instant. And all the characters would still be like the character they're based on. Also people who make OCs are not losers.
My issue with these kind of fandoms in general is they usually become so insulated that they assume things are true when they aren't. For a different HP related example, there was a period where Hermione was announced as being black for the Broadway show, and fans took that and ran with it confirming she *has* to be black in fandom. This led to people literally accusing artists of being racists for having had, or currently depicting her as white. Like even if you and what feels like a huge chunk of people all agree something *should be* a certain way does not mean every casual fan ever has that beamed into their brain and accepts it as gospel. I see it mostly now with the as mentioned in this video "accepted" depictions of these characters
my least favourite thing about the marauders fandom is when they tell real life trans people, who are just living their lives and creating content that is not at all related to hp, that they headcanon a marauder to look like them. sweetie, are you sure you want to tell a trans person that they remind you of an oc a transphobe made? don't even get me started on that time i saw someone tell a trans woman that she gave off sirius black vibes, bestie sirius is a man (in canon) maybe don't say that to a woman
In the 90s a lot of anime and manga fandom was based on fanon rather than canon, the reason being that large parts of the canon were not (officially) available to Western (esp US) readers. It's interesting to see a similar development in a fandom where the canon is officially, but not "morally" available with people who consume fanon actively boycotting the canon. Another difference between let's say the Ranma 1/2 fandom in the 90s and the Marauders fandom is that the Ranma 1/2 fanon characterizations were based on what was essentially a game of telephone involving countless fantranslations, hearsay about supposed canon developments and countless fanfictions, whereas the Matauders fandom seems to be largely based on a single source which is something I haven't seen before.
oh that's so interesting! i've vaguely heard of stuff like that with manga/anime because of the lack of translations but as someone who's never been hugely into it i only have a passing understanding. and yeah the single source thing is wild! i've pretty often been in fandoms where there's been one fic that was so popular it was considered "basically canon," but it's a whole other can of worms when there basically IS NO CANON to go off of at all! thanks for watching!
I also dont get this fandom. And some headcanons like trans Regulus or James x regulus or Wolfstar. Those stuff arent canon but those ideas anre not incherantly bad. Just have to be well represented. Wolfstar is a great ship, and Regulus wasnt second stage character. Or vital to the story. It may seem like a headcanon that was made to stic it to jk rowling, but when you think about his role in the story and how nasty the Black family was. Such act of defience as speaking to they're parents"Mom dad, (aunt , uncle) I am not your daughter, Im a boy" That thing would get Regulus splapped so hard to the face and get disowned as well. This is intresting headcanon. And would make Regugus story even more tragic that the only person who remebered Regulus as a boy is the one who hated him the most. His brother.
Technically yes, but factually most marauders hate the author for good reason. I mean... the fandom tries to make as much as possible gay (Dorcas Meadows and Marlene McKinnon, Wolfstar, Jegulus) for the purpose of spiting JKR
I mentioned how Remus was actually related to Sirius in the book’s and you would have thought I started a war. Like yes ship what you want but that is literally cannon why are you mad?! Some fans really need to read the source material again cause it’s insane.
i really like how the marauders existed as a fandom created almost entirely by the fans as a collective creative project it is super interesting i love how there's a widely agreed upon canon by popular consensus among people i wont disagree that there are problematic aspects, but im not going to stand on a moral highground about it (mostly bc idgaf abt most harry potter related things) idt there's anything wrong with kids participating in fandom, actually i think its a very constructive and important space for people of all ages cringe is dead, long live cringe, etc etc
The way I see it, though, the difference between Sirius and Snape is this: Okay lets first start with their similar upbringings Snape grew up in a physically abusive household. We know this. While it's not explicitly mentioned that Sirius was abused by his family, there are several pieces of context we can use to come to this not-so-far-fetched conclusion. 1) Walburga's portrait continues to hurl extremely graphic threats and insults at him in the Order of the Phoenix - we know that the magical portraits usually are very accurate portrayals of the residents when they were alive. To say that Walburga alone doesn't fit in this category would be, frankly, incorrect 2) Sirius' face was BURNED OFF from the Black family tree. Says enough about how his family viewed him tbh 3) He comes from the BLACK FAMILY. A family thats CANONICALLY bigotted and narcissistic due to their pure blooded heritage, as can be seen in the Malfoy family throughout the books. Luscious Malfoys' wife Narcissa and Bellatrix Lestrange both came from the black family. Enough said about that I dont think it's pushing it too far to say that Sirius grew up in an abusive household Now, Sirius starts at Hogwarts and meets the Marauders, who no doubt shows him love and healthy friendships he never had. Snape, on the other hand, meets Lily and forms a close bond with HER. So, both boys had terrible upbringing but grew up to find someone they feltsafe and happy with. The difference, though, is that Snape continued to be a bigotted pure blood by playing into the social hierarchy of the wizarding world, despite the kindness shown to him by Lily. He could've chosen another path, but he ultimately didn't. Sirius, on the other hand, was the complete opposite. He grew up to be the opposite of the Black family legacy and grew up to be an actually good person. Now, the way both characters were written might've had a role in this, considering that throughout the books, Slytherin is portrayed as being the 'evil house' while Griffindor being very much the 'heroic good house'. So i would argue that the characters were initially WRITTEN like this, and that's not necessarily fan doing
"The difference, though, is that Snape continued to be a bigotted pure blood by playing into the social hierarchy of the wizarding world, despite the kindness shown to him by Lily. He could've chosen another path, but he ultimately didn't." Ummm, No. Snape is a half-blood, raised in his abusive muggle father's home and town, then had to deal with the shame of his own muggle heritage as a half-blood in a House in which pure blood is prized over everything else. I doubt Sirius's abuse started before he was sorted into Gryffindor. Before then he was the eldest son, and his parents' heir, and brought up in privilege and wealth. That he would be a Slytherin was probably not even questioned by his family, so it probably wasn't until he ended up in the 'enemy's' house that his troubles began. This is important. With Snape's background of poverty, neglect and abuse, parents who didn't love him, an appearance close to the standard fairy-tale witch trope (he'd be the Wicked Witch of the West if his skin had been green), that made him thin-skinned, sensitive, and desperate to be loved, it also made him the target of constant bullying. Rowling could have made him the same sort of indulged, self-centered upperclass twit as Lucius, with no reason other than his own feelings of superiority and entitlement to privilege to behave as he does and effectively short-circuited any empathy we might feel for him. As an aside, this is another thing that pissed me off, among the many things which pissed me off about JKR's double standards: Harry being bullied by his cousin was supposed to make us empathize with him and love him all the more, yet we are supposed to ignore the fact that young Severus was horribly bullied by Harry's father James and his right-hand man Sirius and NOT feel much empathy over that - to in fact view Harry as exceptionally noble because he does. Why? Because as a Slytherin future Death Eater, he deserved it, but innocent Harry didn't? The 'it's OK for bad things to happen to characters I hate but not for the same things to happen to the hero' stance is just infuriating in a saga which clearly wants us to make moral judgements, with little nuance, about the various characters. The sorting is an obvious code for whether a character is a good one (noble Gryffindor, friendly Hufflepuff) or a bad one (evil Slytherin, amoral Ravenclaw), which just isn't a realistic idea. Real people don't come in absolutes and it's an especially ridiculous and damaging idea that someone's character is absolutely set at the age of 11. The words "lives up (or down) to expectations" come to mind. Considering his background, it is probably a miracle Snape *didn't* end up a second Voldemort, and I think it was his vestigial moral compass which kept him from it - he *did* choose another path, and gave his life in doing so. So Sirius being sorted into Gryffindor may have caused him problems at home, but he found acceptance among his housemates and a fast group of friends whose exploits certainly seem more nasty than brave to me. There's a reason it was easy for others to believe Sirius was the one who betrayed the Potters. Snape, on the other hand, once in school, is sorted into Slytherin, and as might be expected of someone in his circumstances, has few social skills, which invites bullying and makes him a social pariah, seemingly even in his own House (notice that not one Slytherin comes to his defense in the bullying scene we see in the Pensieve). There is no evidence that he uses his magical abilities in a way which hurts other people, though he invents spells to do so to people who hurt him. But even when defending himself, he does little damage. He is obviously a swot, but not someone who is admired for that quality. This means open season as far as the Gryffindors are concerned; it's always 3 or 4 against one, with the advantage of the Marauder's Map as well, so there's little Snape can do to defend himself. None of his teachers, including the headmaster, give enough of a fuck to try to stop it, even when it nearly leads to his death. That climactic Pensieve bullying scene, from the order in which The Prince's Tale is told, comes AFTER the "prank" by Sirius Black, so the aftermath doesn't seem to have made much of an impression on Sirius, does it? And even after he promises Lily that he won't bully Severus anymore after he starts dating her, James continued to do so when he could do it without it getting back to her. And Dumbledore had the nerve to be disgusted by the fact that Snape didn't care what happened to James Potter when he came to beg him to save Lily! There aren't many people who would be saintly enough to care about the welfare of someone who made their childhood a living hell for nine months of the year, for seven straight years. Bullying is evil, no matter who is doing it or how much you might dislike the person on the receiving end. Sorry for the essay - just had to get that off my chest.😉
@larkmacgregor3143 Oh yes! I apologise for the mix-up on Snape's heritage ( It's been a while since I last read the books). I agree with you on JK's double standards and boxing kids into good and evil: that's simply ridiculous. And also on your point about the Marauders constantly bullying Sirius and how they never really faced repurcussions for it. The only way it was addressed in the books is by Sirius laughing it off and telling Harry that they were just dumb kittle kids, but that doesn't compensate for the emotional torture they put Snape through: that was honestly gross. However, I think there's still more to be said about Snape. I wrote my original post comparing Sirius and Snape as children, but didn't really delve into their characters as adults, which I will now do. What we see of Sirius as an adult is limited apart from him being Harry's supportive godfather and some remarks towards Snape that show that he hasn't quite moved on from his childhood,and continues to view people through a similar lense as he did then. This is emphasized by the fact that Sirius seems to think Harry is his father, James, aswas b4ought up in the Order of the Phoenix. I think it's safe to say that we can't compare the adulthood of both characters to great extent, but it's worth noting Snape's character as a matured adult even if it doesn't directly compare with Sirius's. 1) He continues to bully Harry all throughout the 7 books. While I understand that Harry would've reminded Snape of James, what with his popularity and success in the quidditch pitch, it's absolutely not acceptable for a 30-something year old to abuse a literal child. Snape took revenge on an 11 year old for things that said 11 year old couldn't possibly have been responsible for on any level. 2) Neville's biggest fear in Prisoner of Azkaban was Snape. Note that this is the child who remembers his parents' screams when they were being TORTURED. The fact that his fear of Snape is bigger than hearing those screams again or torture itself tells enough about that point, I think 3) If the Chosen One was Neville instead of Harry, Snape would not have given two shits about the "good side." I think it's safe to assume that Wnape would've continued to be a most loyal Death Eater if Lily hasn't been involved in the crossfire. This makes Snape's entire "redemption arc" useless because he never changed as a person; his obsession with Lily just came into play. You can't argue that Snape decided to "be good" AFTER Lily's death because we see him being a terrible person throughout the books. (Again, note his bullying of the Griffindors) There's probably more I could say, but I'll stop here as. This IS getting quite long. Also, I think we can all agree that Dumbledore wasn't the great wizard he was portrayed to be, but rather a selfish , manipulative, terrifying person (He literally raised Harry i the dark that he was to die at the right time to save the world) My point here is that neither Snape nor Sirus were entirely good or bad, as you rightfully pointed out, but the fandom hating on Snape has less to do with double standards in the fandom and more to do with the choices Snape made (He may have been influenced to make those choices in some ways, but ultimately, he did make them)
I don’t really agree. I feel like the big difference between Snape and serious is that serious got to feel safe at Hogwarts, he had a place to flee his family Snape was bullied in what should have been a safe place
I agree, and you can say that they both didn't entirely grow out of their prejudices after James' murder. Snape continued to loathe James and passed it down to Harry, while Sirus remained hostile towards Snape long after James' death. They both also played a role in James' death, Snape by telling Voldemort about the prophecy and Sirius for convincing James and Lily into switching him as secret keeper with Peter. Snape and Sirius also had an unhealthy manner of comparing Harry to James. Dumbledore and Molly even have to remind Snape and Sirius that Harry isn't James.
@@rumi72441&2: Every single professor is like that, Hagrid made fun of a childs appearance and disfigured a child, Minerva locked Neville out of the Gryffindor common room when there is literally a mass murd3rer outside + went out of her way to make fun of Neville, Madam Pince hexed Harry and Ginny's things, ..., they are just viewed as saints because they favour Harry, and that's probably where Severus got that + it might be bad to target a house (Gryffindor) but isn't anyone doing that themselves... And how would Neville get trauma when he wasn't the one who is actually being tortured. Harry's boggart was a dementor, Ron's was a spider, Hermione is failing grades, Parvati is a snake, and Seamus is a banshee, and Ron's boggart changed completely in a while. So their boggart hasn't processed yet, so it's also possible that Neville's boggart changed... Also Minerva is worse than Severus because Minnie actually cheats the school rules for Harry and Severus doesn't for his Slytherins. ... Minerva also locked Neville out and it's possible that Neville didn't think much of it. So this is just normal in the Wizarding World.
I'm not that heavily involved in the marauders fandom when I first found out about them I thought they were cool and I wanted to be a part of it but when i found out how they babygirl death eaters people who didn't give a fuck about genocide and took a part in it really turned me away and also the whole jegulus thing like that ship makes absolutely no sense
I was deep in the marauders fandom some 15 years ago. Since then I've first passively (outgrew it) and then actively (Jo stuff) excited the HP-sphere. But I do love to look through the window in videos like this. From what I can tell the dominant fanon now is nothing at all like what I remember - for better, for worse.
lowkey this happened to the les mis fandom in 2012 lmao. like we all collectively ignored that it's about jean valjean in the 19th century and made everything about the barricade boys being gay in a modern au. good times, man. i hope the ghost of victor hugo knows what he's done having put nine shippable twinks together in his book like that.
I’m not even in the Marauders fandom but I read All The Young Dudes during a breakdown last February and I finished it in three weeks, would recommend though it’s good
i just think that half the 'Marauders' fandom are actually 'ATYD' fandom, and that's okay, but they should acknowledge that. you shouldnt have to know a specific piece of fan content in order to be able to engage with a general fandom. I see people all the time asking what they need to do to get into 'The Marauders Fandom' and everyones like Read All the Young Dudes!!!!!!! and I'm like: no. Read the source material (library or second hand. JKR doesnt need more money) and then go to Ao3, filter a ship you like and filter old-to-new (to get away from any recent ATYD-biased fics) and just read everything that takes your fancy. I'm talking read stuff from 2010, before the characterisations became so one-note and people didnt get attacked for portraying characters as anything outside of what tiktok deems the characters' personalities to be. One fanfiction doesnt 'enter' you into a fandom like its some sort of biblical text. and you shouldnt have to have read that one fanfiction in order to have a coherent convo with someone else supposedly in that fandom. If you have never read more than the most popular five fanfics, and you have zero headcanons that arent based on those texts, you are not in the 'Marauders' fandom, youre in 'ATYD/other popular fanfic' fandom.
This is genuinely fascinating to me. I used to be a HP fan back in the early 00's and I was kinda part of the Marauders fandom at the time? More or less anyway, most of my friends were really into it so I kinda got into it too, plus I was a big Remus fan. But I haven't been keeping up with it at all since like 2005 or so. All of this was new to me. Well except maybe the Indian James thing, I think I've seen fanart of that headcanon on Tumblr at some point The funny thing is, at one point me and my friends started roleplaying... well not really the Marauders but the Marauders minus Peter plus Lily. And altho it started as kind of a joke, it developed into our own AU where James and Lily were both trans men (I played James btw). It kinda became our own fanon that only the four of us were contributing to, like a mini fandom (I'm not a trans man, to be clear, but I did later realise that I was nonbinary, I just didn't really know that was an option back when I was a teenager) So that was my "Marauders fandom" experience (I did read some fanfic too, just not as much as my friends bc I just wasn't all that into the ships... and I kinda just wanted to read about Remus and Sirius as adults anyway because I thought that was way more interesting. Oh also I did actually also participate in a bigger message board roleplay event thing that was set in the Marauders era where I played Peter. I wasn't originally supposed to but the original Peter dropped out before even getting properly started and they needed a substitute so I volunteered. That was An Experience, because literally everybody hated me for no reason from the start lmao. It got so bad that eventually some people felt sorry for me and started befriending my Peter. I didn't actually feel all that bad since it's not like I had even wanted the role in the first place. I just found it funny and kind of interesting as a social experiment) Anyway, sorry for the rambling. The video was interesting and also brought back all these buried memories...
This is just what fandoms are now a day, and it sucks! Like it's all fun and games, until you disagree with someone and get dogpiled by a bunch of toxic STANS as I like to call them. "Fans" that are just as toxic as people who just joins fandoms to hate on them and harass the normal fans. It goes both ways people! You can be passionate about a special intrest, but, you must also remeber that it's FICTIONAL in the end. Like, I have been called a r*pist, a abuse apologizest and told to kill myself, because I don't agree with someone. And it hurts to be told things like that. Like, respect REAL people! You are saying these things to a REAL person! It's really screwed up 😬
Honestly I completely left all Hp related fandom, for a fandom that hates the creator for being a bigot. They are not ashamed of being bigots themsleves.
Hi, after the little existencial crisis post realization that times really fly, I have the constructive observation that you could've make more clear in the intro that the video was going to be focusing, in what may be an actual state of the fandom and its current development of tiktok. Because for a hot moment I understood that you were saying that the fandom was like almost an AO3-TT only, kind of thing, , so my first defensive reaction was, wait, how are you no talking about tumblr, and devianart, all the viral fancasting, fb pages, etc.??? And wasn't until I read the comments and your replies that I understood what was happening, what you were trying to say, and in what context were you starting. (And then the reflection of, omg I read those books like 15 years ago, my wolfstar era was like 10 years ago kick in) But that been said, I really liked your video, and I think is so interesting that so many of the problems you talk about the marauders fandom are problems that so many fandoms and fanfictions face, and that they need to be acknowledge more, like the fetishization of gay couples, lack of representation of female characters or female relationships, the gatekeeping, or how in the idealization of characters can end up in a "they can do no wrong" and oversimplification of was at some point a really interesting theme or topic. TLDR: great video, mom maybe I am a milenial
I am a marauder fan since PoA was released - I have fanfictions I wrote at 12yo on my computer (2003). I had a pause between 2008 and 2021 when I did not actively read or write fanfictions. I was very happy to find new good content but I really notice that a lot of authors never read the books ^^° At one point I read a discussion why Remus didn't had any visible scars in a fanfiction. Because there WERE NON IN THE BOOKS! I don't care that much about those minor details but as I was a potterhead I am aware of the source material. I mostly avoid Jegulus (with very few exceptions), because it doesn't make sense for me. Probably they never even TALKED. But HP fandom is a safe place for me. I got back into it when I was very down and overwhelmed by real life. Femslash is quite seldom because the big fandoms don't have that many fleshed out female characters you can work with. Especially in Harry Potter I can think of very few lesbian couples that would make sense for me. It's more effort to make them believable. But I read a good fanfiction on Madame Hooch and McGonnagal once. In Star Trek it's different ;) Fanfictions are a playground - yes. They help you with a world and some characters to start your own story. Especially in HP there are so many plotholes that your can really play with different storylines and character arcs. There is an essay about why wolfstar is so loved. It's because your can play with it. How did the two characters from so different backgrounds (and the Blacks HATED "half-humans") together? How did the marauders work as a group? How did it change when Sirius made his cruel jokes on Snape? And why and how did he? Why did he move to James at 16? How did the relationships between all marauders get so messed up that they lost their trust in each other during the war? Or you start after prison and explore trauma and loss. There are some background characters that are not that flashed out you really can rewrite and make your own. I also like character studies in AUs if they are well made.
I kinda stopped participating in the fandom after 2021 bc of tiktok up until than I enjoyed it so much. I dont like atyd but I read it 2 times or so. I spent a good chunk of my marauders fanning without ever reading atyd
I have to disagree. I'm showing my age, but I was in college in 2010 and my friends and I were nerding out about the marauders. Our favorite fanfic was the shoebox project which I totally recommend.
I fell out of love with this fandom, the world and the whole franchise after I saw through Rowlings bullshit and her disgusting views seeping into her writing. I cant pick up these books or fanfics anymore and just enjoy them. But at a time I was a fan and I specifically liked this time period in the canon. But I was a very passive fan and the nonsense I would have been interested in just wasnt out there. And I highly doubt fans would like it... Namely I kinda liked Snape. I never considered him good. Frankly I dont even consider the Marauders good. They were all assholes and bad people in some shape or form. Some more, some less. Some grew out of it, some didnt. I would have liked to see less highschool romance drama and more of them as adults. Like yeah one of them was dead and the other a runaway traitor. But we saw Remus relying on Snapes help and later Sirius was stuck around him too. He was in theory on their side and if I had written fanfic I would have shipped those ships instead. Messy, toxic and perfecly bad ships. For funzies.
idk shit about the current marauders fandom but i was there in the ancient times on tumblr where ben barnes as sirius black was born. i also read atyd as it was updating which was wild. half the stuff you talked about i was completely lost about and the other half was stuff i remembered from tumblr lol. i think it's hilarious how marauders writers basically invented a canon of their own and this was definitely happening on tumblr way back in the pre atyd times too. i was there when indian james potter became a thing. that was kind of fun actually people saw one post and liked it so much they decided to make it fanon
As a trans woman who grew up with Harry Potter to the point that it was the number one of the fandoms I was a part of, I still struggle with leaving it. It was just such a big part of my life and I also discovered I was trans around the time when She Who Must Not Be Named made her first transphobic tweet in 2020. And with reaction videos having grown to be the new thing for a while now (as far as I was aware of it), I both cringe whenever a channel I follow does a HP reaction while also having the urge to explain lore to them when they have questions about it and thus still participating in the fandom myself. I am surprised that the Marauder fandom exploded so much since I became aware of it in 2016 or so. Also, I have now found a way of dealing with the fact that I still love the concept of a hidden magical world within our own modern one: I’ll just write an original story myself (though I doubt that I will actually start writing it soon - all I have is a background summary - and I have other original stories that I want to finish first).
blaming tiktok for the boom of marauders is tough enough, tumblr girls now are going crazy about it, but i understand that you talking about the new era
Hot Take but there's micro-transactions for multiple things, not just mediocre Harry Potter apps. Pokemon basically started this with Pokemon Go, now everything has a mobile app to get money from people, that's why a lot have a warning label for kids to ask for permission before downloading the app
Love this video just one little thing: Sirius escaped in the 3rd book: prisoner of Azkaban. And also JKR is not just disliked, our whole fandom actually hates her because most of us are gay/trans/neurodivergent. The only character that is hated as much as JKR is Dumbledor. And i can understand why you had this view on Harry Potter and also from my experience many fans mean little to no representation in the Harry Potter books but there are definitely different boooks. The Snapae issue is true. I myself identify as marauders fan and i dont like Snape but i dont hate him i just have different preferencies and i also dont really like how he is treated. But oterwise its a good video for someone who didnt read the fanfics and its not really their thing.
Well for me for example my favorite character is Regulus and many of us think that all these characters died because of dumbledore. He was really powerful wizard and he knew many things and could prevent almost every death and we are just pissed at him that he used literal children in war that he caused. He knew Tom was evil and dangerous and he did nothing to prevent him from becoming this evil dark wizard. But I understand that if you only read boooks where he is literally worshiped by Harry and it’s from his point of view that you like him but for many of us he manipulated and caused deaths to our favorite and comfort characters.
@@judithlandova5319your favorite characters did it to themselves with their idiot plan of making the obviously evil rat man their secret keeper. Also being a regulus fan is such an L i basically dont even have to say anything about it lol But basically all of your arguments about dumbledore are a simple flowchart that says: DID DUMBLEDORE DO SOMETHING? If yes, hes a manipulator. If not, he doesnt care. Simple as
I always tell people I am a Marauders fan and not a Harry Potter fan. I see these fandoms as completely different things. I can’t stand canon James. He is a terrible person and I don’t know what Lily saw in him. BUT I love Marauders’ canon James. It took me a long time to like him even in a canon I find completely different from Harry Potter. This version of James is a kind mom-like friend. I still don’t like the Snape hate though. I don’t think Snape is close to a good person but Harry Potter James is a worse. The point of this is that I don’t see these two fandoms as the same thing and I think that’s why I connect to the characters more. It’s all people making stuff up to make something fun they can use to interact with others and I find that very nice.
After such a long time you probably worked it out already, but here goes one pronunciation tip: you said “ruim” too fast, make the U a little longer, like rUim :) your “mau” is perfect though. Plus, fun fact: “maL” is an adverb like “badly”, while maU is an adjective like “bad”, but they pronounce the same
i was a harry potter fan back in the day and stopped reading the books after rowlings transphobia was shown, but i have read atyd (mostly because during the pandemic i felt depressed af and since i didnt want to read the hp books, which had become my source of comfort as a kid, i decided to give fanfics a chance) and i liked it fine, it was very angsty. since then, i have read other popular fics, not many mind you, cause theyre so long, but enough to be somewhat familiar with the fandom (although since im not on tiktok i do think i miss on a lot of what constitutes the fandom) and, though i do agree with your criticisms of it, i do want to say that ive seen works that are entirely political in their depiction of systematic racism against the muggle borns (usually), ingrained within Hogwarts and the ministry of magic, something that liberal rowling wouldve never dared to do. even atyd, i think, does some interesting things with Lupin's lycanthropy and the systematic discrimination he faces as a result (something that is hinted at in the books if i recall, but never explicitly said). unlike the books, where voldemort and his desth eaters are evil and hence discriminate against muggle borns, these fics are far more nuanced in their portrayals of systems of oppression and even have the marauders and their friends staging political protests against the bigotry in the ministry. i think thats why im on the other side of the spectrum where i do find so much of value in these fandoms and i think they can have an impact in the world outside, specially seen as the majority of readers are probably young teenagers. but i do believe that its probably the least interesting aspects of these fics that make it to the mainstream, i hardly ever see anyone mentioning the other werewolves that make an appearance in atyd and their political importance, for example.
Fanfiction and AUs are all fine and good, and don’t think people are obligated to “RESPECT CANNON” when they’re just having fun. But bullying people over ships and headcannons is some real off putting for fandom.
I think Sansukh is for Lord of the Rings the same thing as All the young dudes for Harry Potter. It's Fandom (series of book) that lives it's own life.
I believe that info was from a survey, so it depends on the interpretation of the person taking the survey, but given that there was no other response that would actually include Mexico, I imagine that any Mexicans would select North America.
Why would fans back in 2000 assume it was canonical authorial intent for Remus and Sirius to be a thing? I can't think of a single MLM relationship that was big around the turn of the millennium, especially in children's fiction. But that's a silly question to ask. If I know the Marauders fandom, and I do, it was fans queerbaiting themselves. E: Calling Snape "universally reviled" in the Marauders fandom is certainly new. Everyone I've seen expresses the same sentiment you did - that Snape's childhood is somehow worthy of consideration for the actions he took when he was old enough to know better.
I am a Muslim marauders fan. And even though being part of the lgbtq+ community is a sin in my religion I find it disgusting that people have the need to hate one people! Do what ever makes you happy and love who ever you want! I met a lot of people from the lgbtq+ community and they were all so kind and I didn’t treat them any differently or without the kindness and respect I’d usually give to other people. At the end we’re all humans with souls and hearts. Not to mention I was a huge Harry Potter fan till I heard about jk’s transphobia I totally understand! I wouldn’t want to support someone who’s bullying people that are confident enough to come out.
Not a huge fan of the Marauders era fics, like not really interested in reading about them, but this was a good and informative video about it that the algorithm led me to. Also, as an aside, I find it very funny that I think a fic with 526,969 words is not long at all. 😅
I've heard that about the fic length from a lot of people! Given that a standard novel word count is anywhere from 70k words to 120k words I think it definitely counts as long though 😅
Well this fandom is actually overrated with nonsense headcannon and fannon, mischaracterize, it was too popular that sometime brainwashed hp to believe that not even cannon like Pandora and Evan are twin, Barty Jr and Luna are uncle-niece, Jelugus,… and so on!
When you said "a controversial yet forgettable video game" I spent a good half-minute trying to figure out what was wrong with LEGO Harry Potter on the Nintendo Wii, lol
I would say it was the ds version of lego Harry Potter, or Goblet of fire
@@tgiacin435 bestie yall are so out of the loop.... its hogwarts legacy
@@cabbagecart-u3x i wouldn’t call it forgettable, especially since they’re releasing a DLC and HL2
@@cabbagecart-u3xits not being out of the loop harry potter for the wii was goated and nostalgic and hogwarts legacy was an uninteresting cultural flop outside of jos transphobia causing controversy and all together completely forgettable, harry potter on the wii was a lot of peoples childhoods
I’m a Wolfstar fan and the one thing I’ve always hated abt the Mauraders fandom was that gay poeple can be hot and cute UNLESS THEY ARE MIDDLE AGED SCRAGGLY MEN. LIKE WHY IS ALL THE FANART THEM AS TEENAGE TWINKS LET THEM BE MIDDLE AGED MEN THAT HAVE SEEN THE HORRORS!!!! Let middle aged Sirius Black wear a sexy cocktail dress too. Smh.
YOU GET IT! We old man yaoi enjoyers suffer enough!!
Gary Oldman Sirius AWOKE something incredibly gay within me when I was young. DILF RIGHTS.
Mid-30s isn't middle aged. Also not all 30 year olds with hard lives age like milk. (Or else I'd be a skeleton.)
I feel like it's not a stretch to say the random is made up of women under 25 or of women who were teens of young adults when they got into it so it makes sense that they would imagine them as their peers.
I think because this fandom is mainly teenagers (me included)people make them their age to make them relatable and also most of them died before the second war.
Also I do agree I want more of that content too
I think that the reason why people in the marauders fandom talk a lots about inclusivity and diversity is not because they think there are no representation of that in media, but because there are none in the canon. Like, literally, there are like four characters not white in all the book series and maybe one of them is really relevant for the plot, the other are mentioned once or two times and had zero personality :(
Which is the non white character which it’s important to the plot I guess either lavender she gets the most page time but not really that important and was made white even though a black actress had been playing the role before (stay classy Hp) Shackleton who gets mentioned a lot but doesn’t really do that much really or I think it’s Dean Thomas who is similar to lavender that he gets mentioned but doesn’t do anything main plot being Harry getting angry that Dean cares more about his family that school friends IIRC
Thing is though it’s Britain in the 90s and early 2000s so of course most of them will be English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish or Cornish maybe it’s not hard to understand not everywhere is California and that’s fine
@@goodbye7236 no not everywhere is America that’s true. I was just curious which was the character that they think is black that has a impact on the story because I can’t think of one. I have written multiple essays on HP mostly encouraging people to read other books!
@@goodbye7236 The history of people of colour in Britain is actually really fascinating! During and immediately after WW2, there was encouragement, through negating the need for visas, for people across the empire to move to Britain to serve as a cheap labour force. As such there was a large amount of immigration from places like India, Pakistan, and the Caribbean. These groups were often treated very poorly and their history has largely been erased in the popular historical narrative due to racism. Then during the economic boom of the 80s and 90s, there were additional waves of immigrants, particularly from Commonwealth countries such as Nigeria. Britain being such a generally wealthy country is also an attractive location for immigrants generally. This is the case in the modern but also stretching back in history. For example, London's Chinatown has its origin with Chinese dockworkers in the early 20th century which was then bolstered by immigrants from Hong Kong after WW2.
The UK is an amazingly diverse country whose history is deeply tied up in imperialism and immigration! And on a less serious note, man it sure would've been nice of JK Rowling to have put in a single Welsh character.
@@deanmottershead9208why black? It may be Cho ;)
they are actually referred to as the Marauders ONE TIME in canon, in the Half Blood Prince they're talking about the room of requirement and Ron says "Maybe the Marauders didn't know about the room."
Thats so cool I didn’t know that!
Not quite true. The map has them call themselves "The Marauders" when introduce themselves, which is all four personalities of James, Sirius, Remus, and Peter. They called themselves "the marauders."
@@fatalrob0t "the Marauder's Map" is in the singular and hints more at the fact that it's named that way because it's a tool for anyone who marauds.
@@ellanaa9464 That's a good point I haven't even noticed before! Though it may also depend on the translation. In the Finnish translation the map's makers/original owners are unambiguously referred to in plural (the word is conjugated differently in singular vs. plural - "Kelmin" vs. "Kelmien" so there is no room for a minor oversight like with "Marauder's" vs. "Marauders'"). Though even then you technically could make an argument about if the marauders in question are the makers of the map or just all the little rascals who might put it in good use...
@@fatalrob0tThe map refers to itself as “the marauder’s map,” but it refers to its creators as “Messers Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs.”
obsessed that after a decade, the 'james is indian descent' headcanon is still around
i remember seeing the textpost that originated from, and how quickly it caught on
the more things change the more they stay the same
@Poodle_Gun Yeah, no. That's even more stupid. I'm sorry, but that is stupid.
@@annabellthedoll9953why lmao? Canon is literally useless in the fandom, James is whatever we want him to be
@@alicefulloficebecause it doesn't make any sense??70s Britain was really really racist. What makes you think a Romani boy would be able to get way with how much shit james was able to get away with??
@@9eishitasharma501 babe. with peace and love, he is a wizard who died by a spell and in school he flew (flown.??) on a broom. the uk is notoriously racist, I agree, but as a roma, I think it's fun to imagine characters being romani, and also we are notoriously resilient lmao
Funny I always joked that Snape is Asian coded for reasons I can't say allowed
i was into the marauders fandom in the mid-2010's and naturally drifted away from it/wholly disowned hp/jkr before the new marauders wave even became a thing, and it's been WILD to see what it has become. it's basically unrecognizable, lmao.
i'm pretty sure i read some, if not most, of ATYD as it was still updating and i liked it fine, though i was very surprised to learn how big it'd become through tiktok during the pandemic. since that i've been kind of observing the fandom from afar, since i still hold nostalgia for what it was (as for many chronically online queer kids, i think reading fanfic had a significant part in my development) and also find it an interesting fandom to look at due to its nature as a... self-sufficient fandom?
it's just, as i said, wild. the characterizations (for the characters that had any) are very different now, somehow james potter/regulus black is one of the biggest ships (???), and i have it on pretty good authority that a good portion of the fandom today has never even read the source books (not that i would like for them to). they could just as well be writing about some ocs at this point, lol. in some ways, though i'm not into it anymore, it does make me sad that the fandom and characters i used to know have been buried under these new versions i don't recognize (i feel like a grumpy old man complaining about kids these days, help. and i felt like i was late to the fandom at the time), and i'm definitely in the camp of "it's still under the hp franchise and as such it makes me uncomfortable".
sorry for rambling! the marauders fandom and what happened to it has kinda become my roman empire, as they say. it's exciting to see an analysis video about it! your critiques of the fandom definitely hold true, and not just for the new iteration of it; it has a long history and it's never been without its problems. the aspect of rejecting canon to make the fan faves (the marauders) look better has always been there, though it's definitely increased wrt the tiktok wave. another related thing is the babygirlification of the death eaters, which is. something. although, as you mentioned, the fandom prides itself on its diversity and social justice, they in general don't seem as enthused about exploring the themes any deeper or in more meaningful ways. i too find the iterative fanonization of every part of it just, boring!
the new people entering the fandom seem mostly quite young, so i don't want to be too mean. i hope they're having a good time and get similar things out of it as what i got a decade ago. i watch minecraft videos now as well so, no high horses here lmao
Thing is it’s always evolving. They are basically oc’s shaped by millions of people. As someone who fell in love with the marauders during 2020 and started with all the young dudes I can only imagine the characters like the are now. When read earlier fics it’s wild how different it is. Neither eras of the fandom are better or worse I don’t think. It’s just how different generations have made these characters their own. I think it’s beautiful that so many different people can see themselves in these characters. It’s like the fandom is growing up with us. I’m sure if the world hasn’t ended yet I will feel the same as you when the fandom inevitably dies down and has a resurgence 10 -15 years from now. The marauders is really it’s own thing apart from Harry potter at this point. I mean the second most popular fic after all the young dudes isn’t even set in the wizarding world. (Talking about crimson rivers which I LOVE!) I think it’s amazing that these groups of characters can exist and live in a million different stories and a million different universe written by a million different people. This is how the fandom never really gets stale. There is always something new.
@@Listen_to_me_talki'm glad you're enjoying it! and you're right, with long-going fandoms things are always evolving (though this case is next level lol). if i may ask since i don't really have a chance elsewhere, could you explain how jegulus became a thing? :D it's so out-of-nowhere from my pov since it wasn't even an ATYD thing, and i'd love to understand why it's so popular now!
yoooo thank you! im glad you liked the video-- it really helped me coalesce a lot of my thoughts and feelings on fanon and fandoms with really extensive fanon, something that is obviously a key part of the marauders fandom.
also yes lol i didnt talk about jegulus at all but its actually BIZARRE in so many ways. i thinkkkkk the way that it happened was that it was part of a rare pair fic challenge of some part? or a big bang or other fandom event, and people just liked it so much from that that it became a staple of the fandom lol. that crimson rivers fic is one of the biggest marauders fics (and one of the most read on ao3 as well iirc).
and yeahhh, i definitely had the relative age in mind while making this video -- that's part of why all the examples i showed were sooo anonymized. But at the same time, I think the general trends are both interesting and also present in other fandoms, and worth critically dissecting! (not that i think that you're saying theyre not or anything lol it just was something i thought a lot about during the making of this video)
thanks again!
@@onelius I think Jegulus was more of a joke at first. I myself, even if I don't ship them, found the scenes of Sirius discovering Jegulus funny. But I think the thing that trully mad it that big is the arrival of new fans, especially Drarry fans : there is the ennemies to lovers dynamic and Regulus is kind of a marauder version of Draco (like, I swear sometimes they are the same character : the pretty, rich and tormented guy who become a Deatheater because of his family but intrasically doesn't want to).
@@potetoes8984I wouldn’t say they’re exactly the same, but the things you said definitely are true! I guess it comes down to the whole slytherin=evil no matter what thing, and people aren’t happy with that in general. so in that aspect Draco and Regulus largely go in the same direction character wise. But there’s also SO many differences. The Black household was miles more abusive towards their children while the Malfoys do have a lot of loyalty and love towards each other (not to discount the neglect Draco undergoes but it’s NOT on the same level). And it there’s one thing fandom always loves it’s a character being ✨ traumatised ✨. Regulus, as well, usually doesn’t get characterized as a bully the way Draco is. He’s friends with Ravenclaws, loves house elves, etc etc etc. Unlike the usual characterisation for Draco, people usually make him out to be a bit more self-aware or the whole blood purity bs thing-going along with it out of fear of abuse at the hand of his parents, but not believing in it at all (usually at least). Him having (or not having) Sirius also plays a huge in his character, unlike with Draco who never had anyone like that to look up to, feel abandoned by, to be protected by etc etc etc. Sirius, in essence, is the person who shook Regulus’ world view.
(Plus, these aspects could also lead to Regulus trying to help Draco out because of similar experiences so yanno, plot)
Hope that ramble gave some perspective!
At least from what I saw (as one of the Snape haters from early Marauders fandom) the main reason everyone hated Snape was because they kind of needed someone to hate for plot reasons, and he was really convenient. Since in canon the Marauders, especially James and Sirius, bullied Snape really badly when they were in school, in order to make them look like good guys still, Snape has to be a terrible person. He also worked as a good love rival for jily shippers, and wolfstar shippers did a lot with the canon story of Remus almost killing Snape while in wolf form and the drama that causes (and Snape generally knowing a big secret that would ruin Remus's life). But also lots of us were kids, I myself would've been 13 at the time, so the nuisance was a bit harder to comprehend when it came to complex characters like Snape.
All this almost reminds me how funny the treatment of Peter was. Lots of people didn't want to include him because he literally betrays James and Lily in canon, so they sort of just left him out of Marauders stuff? Often he was basically just replaced by Lily. He was like the other Marauder we don't talk about.... I'm guilty of that too, I planned a whole fic about the Marauders where he's barely even mentioned. But then again, I didn't read much by way of fanfic, and I definitely wasn't on the more discourse-y side of the fandom like on tiktok, since this was back before it was "trendy".
I saw someone say that if the marauders didn’t bully Snape someone would’ve and he needed it. It feels like people who were a part of some “mean girls clique” found something nerdy they could enjoy but were only interested in the jocks
@Ghosts_R_Real_I_Swear And this is why I hate the Marauders fandom. 🙄 And I was once a part of it.
this is why i hated the marauders fandom as well. i love Remus and Sirius bc i believe they grew up and changed, for the most part like Snape. but jesus christ the absolute vitriol those fans have for Snape is insane. Sirius is never mentioned to have been abused but Snape was. they give Sirius endless grace but see Snape as scum no matter what. seems very mean girl-ish and hypocritical like Ghosts^ said previously
0:55 Yes, all of that. But how could you forget the most important piece of media produced from the Harry Potter fandom? The greatest fanfic of our time, “My Immortal”? Ebony Darkn’ss Dementia Raven Way should never be forgotten😔✌️
My immortal shall not be forgotten..
As someone who participated passively in Harry Potter fandom pre-2020, I actually read ATYD in 2018. I liked it for sure, it’s very well written and relatively thoughtful about the characters- but I was surprised to learn of its popularity on tiktok and even more surprised to learn that it had sprung a fandom of its own. I think there’s something to be said about a fanfiction becoming the “new canon” for a large amount of people- I wonder how many marauders fanfic authors these days actually deviate from the archetypes born out of atyd, and if they feel welcome in the community. Interesting video, thanks for your thoughts!
it's definitely interesting! I've seen lots of big fics in fandoms get heavily incorporated into fanon before, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen it happen to this extent! Thanks for watching!
I feel like it's important to note that a lot of the issues with Snape's bullying, is that Rowling simply couldn't find a way to justify Snape's hatred of James and translating it to Harry. So she pretty much just went for the most extreme she could. But also, in Canon Snape is an already mentally unwell teenager with the foundations of wizard n@zism. Combine that with the fact that he does actively shut talk the Marauders even before the bullying. And you have a relatively reliable excuse. Not enough to justify stripping him infront of half the school, but reliable nonetheless. Then he becomes super racist for a bit, uses the Wizarding equivalent of an ethnic slur. Then proceeds to hold Remus being a werewolf over their heads. Snape is like a massive asshole and Incel long before the bullying. Like Snape is the picture perfect example of unstable teenager from a bad home being pushed into the alt-right pipeline because of said home life.
as someone who’s in the marauders fandom, half of the fandom is chill and the other half is genuinely insane
I've been in a fandom like this. people seemed more interested in endlessly cannibalizing the characters into a homogenized soup of various identities that are never anything more than skin deep, and completely refuse to actually explore the themes of the source material or engage honestly with what is being presented to them, flaws and all. it's maddening. how can your work truly be transformative (or, dare i say good) if you refuse to engage honestly with the sandbox that you're playing in?
Pro tip: if you're using social media to research a subject you otherwise have no interest in, make an alt account to avoid destroying your own algorithm beyond recognition lol
Edit: I swear this wasn't intended as an afterthought but this was a very thoughtful and well-executed essay, thanks for the time you put into it.
lollll probably a good idea 😭 and thank you!
I accidentally refreshed the home page before clicking on this video and i think i just destroyed my algorithm looking for it😭 (I don't really watch harry potter content)
Usually the algorithm corrects itself after a short while if you just doesn't click in the content related to that subject when it serves it to you
Or use incognito.
As well written as this video was I miss the days when videos were made by people who were actually interested in the subject and not just people trying to pay rent :/
I remember a marauders on TikTok commented on a trans woman's video (who said in the video she was a trans woman) saying she looked like "fem Sirius Black" then flipped out at her when she took offense to being compared to a male character written by a transphobe.
I have legitimately been called “homophobic” (I’m bi) by these people because I said I don’t like Wolfstar and think Jegulus makes no sense
Jegulus makes absolutely no sense baha back in my time it made up around 600 fics that were mostly remorselessly made fun of. I’m astonished at how prevalent it has become. Regulus was mostly paired with Barty/OCs/Sirius (lol) back then all of which! somehow make more sense than Jegulus.
Also Jily forever, they’re everything and always were.
i feel like sometimes jegulus is just jily but gay (because some people like to fetishize gay people, i guess) hm. a cool smart person. bad relationship with sibling. hate eachother to lovers. where have i heard this before??? (james and lily did not die fighting death eaters just to be shipped with them 💢💢💢)
Jegulus started as a crack ship but people realized it hit the jackpot of troops in Fanfiction ex:" enemies to lovers, Best friend brother, grumpy X sunshine, forbidden relationship and tragic ending
Not a fan of jegulus either but ships don’t have to make sense. Back in the day we used to ship Rapunzel and Hiccup, look up Rise of the brave tangled dragons, people nowadays always have to have logic and only the best ethics behind their ships
I’m a diehard Marauders fan, and Regulus is my favorite character. It can be quite difficult to find good fics of him that don’t feature Jegulus. I really really do not care for it. As for Wolfstar I have nothing against it but I don’t really understand the appeal
Marauders fandom recap: canon is non existent until the canon doesn't go against gayness and only makes people sad
My only issue with the Marauders fandom is specifically the implications of the Snape's worst memory chapter of order of the phoenix. Those boys literally did a sexual assault on somebody in front of half of school. If it weren't for that my personal feelings about loving them as characters would be very different.
I personally agree that the initial chemistry and implication, having extremely recently relistened to previously owned audiobooks, of lupin and sirius' interactions and living arrangements is that they were definitely dating and rekindled the relationship when sirius got out of prison and was proven innocent.
I both think that what they did to Snape was horrendous and horrific, and I really enjoy exploring the dynamic between lupin and sirius given their very opposing demeanors and personality types.
My biggest annoyance at the marauders fandom (apart from the superiority complex and puritanical way of approaching characters) is the incessant need to spam “sirius black” “remus lupin” “james potter” comments under every video on tik tok that has a person who even slightly resembles their headcanon of these characters.
sadly the marauders fandom is SEVERELY unwelcoming to ships that get in the way of wolfstar or jegulus people worship these 2 ships and are sometimes aggresive to people who dont like the ships. Aswell as being an opinionated space ive found sometimes people tend to fetishize the mlm ships in the fandom and it really riles me up. (sorry for the awful spelling and grammar)
As a lesbian marauder fan, I have to fight for my life when I say I ship dorlene and don't care about jegulus
and as someone who doesn't even ship those two. I get very intimidated by people that do cause fr they get real aggressive as if they expect everyone in the fandom to also ship them
@@say3277 i lend a sympathetic hand to you, soldier
literally! I left the fandom because I shipped blackinnon. I was like thirteen at the time and getting death threats because I didn't ship a certain thing
@@Kelseyp damn. the fandom can be unhinged
I remember people being mad at some girl who was making a fancast for marauders and cast a non plus sized woman as Mary. And I’m like. Firstly, who the fuck is Mary? She’s not mentioned more than once in the books? Like at all? And therefore has no canon body type? And the people who get say shit like “that’s so Regelus coded” NO IT ISNT BC REGELUS HAS NO LINES IN THE BOOKS
She is mentioned as Lilly's best friend in the books.
And obviously if you don't read the fanfic you can't understand but that goes for all the fandoms.
The marauders is a subgroup of Harry Potter but also has his own representation of characters who are only mentioned once.
And for the Mary fancast I'd say some people are not okay, but I could argue that there's crazy people in every fandom
@ she’s mentioned once but her appearance isn’t so it doesn’t matter
@@noellethequeen04 Yea I agree
"I would just prefer that we not lie about it to make ourselves feel better about something that other people think is cringe" & "When you elevate fandom to the same level as activism, you treat every misstep as a much more serious issue than it has to be" both very good points love the way you talk about fandom
Also I just so detest the habit of fanon overwhelming canon I'm glad you talked about the ways it can create issues of interpretation and is just shitty at times
YIPPEE yeah im happy with those lines i think they got across what i was trying to say without being tooooo dense and academic although i cannot say the same for the video as a whole alksjdfkl
I agree as I see it quite a lot in many other fandoms. Especially in the younger audience of a fandom of a show that was not made for them at all. So many of the things I see being treated as “canon” are actually fanon and whenever there is a disagreement between people because one or both sides are arguing with fanon interpretations and treating it as canon is so disheartening and very disappointing (I feel like an adult watching their kids argue about their favorite toys when I say this and see it) because the fight is just ultimately pointless.
Edit: Whenever I see a fanon interpretation go viral, I often find that it misses the mark/point of why and how the character came to be. Making them so one-dimensional rather than accepting the nuances that already exist in the character. It’s like butchering the character into bits and taking the parts you like and putting it together like a deformed plush.
Hearing that the Maraduers fandom mainly happened on TikTok, when you were reading Marauders fanfic around 20 years ago lol. Anyone else remember the great Livejournal fanfic/fanart crisis, when underage content was banned? What a time to be alive.
My current marauders fandom takes place on Tumblr and adult only Discord servers, I checked out the edits on TikTok and they were cool, though they started to get repetitive after a while, and when the fandom discourse started showing up in my feed I ran away so fast. I hide in my curated corners of fandom and it's much nicer there.
but I also miss the LiveJournal days. 🥲
From an older Wolfstar fan : naaaaah, it had started BEFORE GOF. Like, straight from PoA!! It was so obvious when reading PoA (for some of us at least XD )
well, there will always be an audience for ANY ship, so i don't doubt it at all! its just that most sources ive seen agree that gof is where it really started to have a real audience, which obviously might've had to do with the popularity of the books increasing over time as well!
I never was a part of the marauders fandom but since I was very into Harry Potter growing up and liked wolfstar as a ship I was in the general fandom vicinity.
I mostly drifted away after everything that came up about jkr, with the exception of keeping in touch with a couple authors and fans from the spanish side and randomly saw it back when it became viral on tiktok because a friend kept sending me edits she found funny.
It ruined my fyp just like it ruined yours (rip both of us) but it made me feel kind of icky about the whole fandom, at least the tiktok one.
For one, being a fandom who loves saying how diverse and super progressive they are I saw recommendations for plenty of "Jegulus" fanfics that had Lily as little more than a surrogate to the new trendy gay male couple (which is disgusting). Plus I saw some of the newer fans being critical of the original famous fancasts (which were all white) to a point of being hateful towards older fandom members who still used those in their edits. Which I think is a weird hill to die on given that, while I love diverse fancasting, the original characters are in fact white and come from a series that treat its not white characters like shit.
I feel like it has one of the problems that many popular fanfoms deal with and its that at its core it doesn't care about anything other than pretty (mostly gay) boys. The female characters are an afterthought, plenty of fics and headcanons just pair two female characters with barely anything in common so they can give their original male partners they gay ship they want without being told they're removing the girl from the plot (they do this to Lily a lot).
They also seem to internally dislike any character that isn't greek god level beauty. Peter is not left out of the plots because he's evil, it's because he's fat and ugly. Usually people who make fix it fics and include him in their stories as a proper character fancast/describe him as a good looking boy that is maybe just a little bit chubby. Because just like jkr herself, they hate ugliness and can imagine a good character being ugly. Although this was a problem in the older fandom too, not just the newer one.
They make characters who have 0 lines of dialogue main characters, but most of the time this only applies to male characters. Yes they've made personalities for non important female ones, but in most fics they're background or supporting characters. Meanwhile Regulus has an entire subsection of a fandom of his own.
None of this is exclusive to the marauders fandom, but you don't see other fandoms claiming to be free of this then committing it the way they do.
So for me the fandom went from something I would sometimes engage in to something I would never want to be involved with again.
I don’t like when fans start treating headcanons as canons. Blurring the lines by bringing up something in canon alongside something that is purely fan interpretation is confusing, but when you go out of your way to chew out people who don’t follow your fan canon of events? That’s where a line should be drawn and I wish more fans realise that not everyone will know about their niche fan canon and not everyone will accept it, and that’s fine.
This is why I'm afraid of joining the fandom, because the fans seem to be VERY obsessed with these "canon" fanfictions like ATYD. I'm afraid of trying to write my own fanfics because of this fear, that the fans will come at me and point out that my headcanons don't align with headcanons of the majority of the community
The marauders fandom really doesn't like it when I point out that their faves weren't good people. Like they be out here villainizing Snape when really it was the opposite as James and gang minus Remus bullied him.
Their faves also weren’t real my guy
there's so much possibility for exploring the cruelty of teenagers + highschool cliques that i'm assuming based off these comments is. not there
doesn't make Snape a saint either
@@marti9734I mean yeah, he was a horrible person, but they bullied the shit out of him when he was a literal child, before he really did anything to remotely deserve it. He was just a kid. And there were pretty classist undertones to how James and Sirius (trust fund babies/old money) treated him.
@marti9734
In this age, he didn't do anything to get bullied at all. We can say a lot of snapes' behavior afterward comes from then
Those fans all collectively agreeing that Remus was abused as a child as a character trait is actually insane. That is so disgusting
hey! just wanted to add my perspective into the mix as someone who HAS consumed a lot of marauders content. i really appreciated this video, the commentary you make is very valid and I agree with a ton of it, especially the bit about the fandom & the activism they pride themselves on. i should also say that although I have had marauders tiktok across my feed etc I am not super involved with the fandom as a collective, but have read quite a few of the major fanfics out there. with the snape thing, i agree with you that especially in fics where the setting takes place as teens at hogwarts, his trauma should not be overlooked. however, it is also (especially in fics that take place with older characters in au's!) important to consider his actions as an adult in canon. the man practically bullied harry for years, and his weird obsession with lily and taking out all of his anger out on an 11 yo are not okay things. (he also bullied neville and called lily a slur and though you could bring up his redemption arc it doesn't really change his actions - and that's not even bringing up the fact he also was a death eater). now, obviously this is not a reason to overlook his trauma. however, especially as an adult, he has faults. i think that a lot of au fics, especially by the immensely popular author bizarrestars (formerly known as zeppazariel- I'm not going to get into the fandoms treatment of them but that's another interesting thing if you want to look into it) but other authors as well do really well is showing characters faults while keeping them still human and complex characters. in bizarrestars 800k fic (haha if you thought atyd was long...) crimson rivers, a hunger game au that is quite possibly my favorite piece of media ever and one i think about daily, snape is shown in his double agent role between (president of the hallow) tom riddle and (resistance leader) dumbledore and his perspective is so interesting to read and while not my favorite character, still a very well characterised and thought out one.
as for the ethics of the fandom, that is something i have debated with myself a lot. i think that like every fandom, there are sides to it that i think are really positive and sides that i think arent so good. i think you covered the negative ones really well, but i do think there are positive sides out there. one thing that i would encourage you check out is the rise of the order, which is a group of marauders fans currently making a fan film. this will be free and not for profit, and i just think that they are a great example of people making some content within the universe that so many people love without benefitting jk rowling.
if i think of more things to add i might, this was kind of a random tangent that didn't totally relate to your video so I'm sorry for that haha! i really did appreciate your commentary!
hmm yeah my point was less to defend snape (obviously he does bad things in canon) and more to point out that its a weird choice to basically NEVER mention that in analysis of the character and to almost ALWAYS mention it in analysis of another character when its not even canon. its less that people aren't right to criticize snape, and more that its frustrating to see people (in many different fandoms and many different places in life) demonstrate that they are incapable of analysis incorporating any nuance and instead flatten the issue to "characters i like are always victims (which can explain any of their wrongdoings) whereas characters i don't like are always aggressors and never have had anything bad happen to them." and this goes not just for fic but for popular discussion and portrayal of the characters in any kind of fan content.
and in terms of the positives of the fandom, honestly much of what i see is the same as any fandom -- people finding a sense of belonging, finding outlets for creativity -- obviously these are wonderful i just find them less interesting! this wasn't really meant to be a full exploration of the fandom in total, but more of a moral and ethical consideration of a fandom that's at the crossroads of a lot of really thorny ethical issues!
thanks for watching, hope that all made sense!
@@theunreliablenarratorshow interesting, i appreciate your response! i fully agree with you on the frustrating-ness on not including complexity/nuance in characters, and I think rereading my original comment I did not get my point across which is while though those are my problems with the fandom in its entirety, especially on social media platforms which is why I don't participate there, I think that the most popular of the fanfics such as the ones by bizarrestars, actually do a really good job of highlighting the nuances of ALL characters, including snape. my point to commenting was just offering the other side, but I do not disagree with you!! !! !! !! (please hear me)!! !! this is a conversation i have had with myself many time- these characters are so incredibly important to me but i do not agree with jkr or really most of the hp fandom in general and for those reasons do kinda wish the universe' appeal would just die out. however, i think that marauders fics do a good job of branching from it. its interesting to me because most of my favorite fics are just these characters that mean so much to me but literally do not have anything to do with the premise of harry potter, and if someone who had never watched or interacted with that universe i believe they could enjoy it as the masterpiece it is, which is kind of where I'm at with the fandom myself and whether i really want to participate or not. hopefully this makes sense, i am just voicing my on the fenceness more than anything else I'm sorry my words aren't more academic!
an example of the fics im kind of talking about is art heist, baby! by otrtbs which you might have to be signed in to view. genuinely changed my life and wrecked me.
this is also unrelated but more to your video, if you want to check out a really good canon compliant sapphic centered fic, the hand that feeds by rollercoasterwords is an incredible one.
(ps I am not a fan of atyd!! it was my introduction to the fandom and i have read it, but i find there to be a lot of issues in it. just wanted to put that out there)
@@theunreliablenarratorshowi also understand if it’s not everyone’s cup of tea! just wanted to showcase some aspects you didn’t cover
I like wolfstar as a pairing and read fanfics about them a lot. What I never understood was the pairing of James/Regulus. Like, WHERE DID IT COME FROM? You might as well just write a fanfic about two OCs bc in what world are these two canonical characters are going to be together? It reflects the general problem I have with marauders fanfic writers making every single character from that timeline gay, regardless of whether their pairing makes sense or not. I get trying to add representation to a fandom that originally does not have any, but adding gay characters just for the sake of them being gay feels almost like fetishization
At least Wolfstar makes sense, Jegulus doesn’t.
I’m heavily involved in the Marauders fandom, and let me tell you, if someone actively defends James, Peter, Sirius, and Remus AND hates Severus, almost everything they say is going to be from fanfiction, it’s most likely going to be filled with antisemitism, ableism, classism, and victim blaming mentality. Antisemitism, and Classism is something that is huge in Severus’s character because of what was singled out on him, and that’s what they insult. I’ve also noticed they make the main 4 POC so that they can say their actions and insults weren’t rooted in racism or classism. Hell, the SA Severus, but nobody takes it seriously and writes it off as “boys being boys.” How people treat fictional characters gives me insight on how they treat others, and I’m horrified about this stuff
Omg THIS,like
its very frustrating (as someone who enjoys snape content and a bit of marauders content) because alot of marauders content I see most is just from some fans who just all hate severus and excuse the marauder's behaviour "snape deserved it because he was into death eater stuff,and also jaja nose joke and hes poor" "he was abusive and obsessed with lily,he deserved what happened to him,james did nothing wrong" as someone who likes severus I can admit he does many wrongs (speaking of his actions during his youth) but I dont get how some people just pile on him to hate him and then in the same breath praise the marauders for their wrong doings,none of them are saints
@@kaorimeri8429 It's because all of the people who say stuff like that either have a mean girl fantasy or they are mean girls (metaphorically.) The issue people have is realizing morality isnt black and white. You can be nice and not good. I think the marauders are almost kinda like a cool celeb, while snape represents a crippling reality we don't want to face as well. These factore i feel like play into things
Yeah, even by making them POC, it still doesn't erase the sheer classism since Sirius and James are Old Boys Club levels of rich. It's also an aspect that bothers me about the books because we SEE the Marauders going after Snape, the poor kid with zero actual connections and safety net, and yet it's crickets when it comes to other baby Death Eaters who ARE from actual prominent families and have the money and resources to deal with the Marauders on an equal level. You don't even get an offhand "oh, yeah, Rosier had a really good right hook" or something.
That always smacked of sheer cowardice, from where I was standing, those "brave boys" weren't really fighting against a system so much as using the whole political powder keg that was happening at the time as an excuse to bully the poor kid with the big nose while rationalizing that this somehow made them into "heroes." In a way, this reflects similarly how many parts of fandom basically steal/use leftist rhetoric as a way t bully and dogpile on people while trying to look heroic or some such rot.
Basically, there's a lot of Mean Girls bullshit in fandom, which explains so much about how they try so hard to erase the fact that the Marauders were bullies.
(You could also make the argument that Lily herself had zero sense of class solidarity, since she was willing to take "James rescued Severus" at face value and NOT listen to him when he tried to tell her that it was not what it seemed... heck, she was so checked out of the relationship, that she didn't even bother to find him and ask "what the hell happened that James Potter had to save you?!", SEVERUS had to be the one to seek her out)
Basically... there's a LOT of classism and lack of solidarity and Mean Girl bullshit baked into the series.
@ YESS!! you’re so right! I heard someone say covid gave an opening for “mean girls” in fandom without being judged. What you said also parallels real life. The background of people affects how others treat them, and in turn what they become. Someone can have a terrible background but with support turn out iksy
The way they treat the poor half-blood boy as the devil to justify the bullying and manipulation he suffered has made me so disconnected by the fandom because of how icky it is. And specially the people who say Severus was not a victim because he fought back, and it was "mutual rivalry". IT WAS LITERALLY A 4 VS 1!!!! WHAT ARE THESE PPL ON ABOUT?????
To be honest not all the fans are that extreme. The Marauders fandom is more like a vibe. It is a concept that everyone has there different opinion on. But I mean, it is fun. It is basically Harry Potter with more diversity. Though, I think if you enjoy the Marauders it is likely you enjoy other queer shows as well.
"Harry Potter with more diversity" was not my takeaway. Like she said, it's super surface-level and obviously not a real consideration. I don't think I've ever seen fancasts that weren't a parade of factory-printed white boys.
@@GreylockMountainI feel that they were the old fancast now it's more inclusive
@@GreylockMountainTakeaway from the video or from your own experience within the fandom? The points she makes in the video are valid, and I share some of her opinions too, but they’re also quite opinionated and to be honest, it doesn’t sound like she has read a lot of the longer, more complex works of the fandom. (Which is totally fine, but it definitely limits the extend of what you understand in terms of the fan space). I do however, think it’s really important to consider that everyone experiences fandom differently, and while I certainly have MANY qualms with the Marauders fandom as someone who’s been involved for far too long, it’s a safe space for so many people. I can understand if someone’s in the fandom and has “controversial” opinions, because they are also in the space, and know what it’s like, but it’s admittedly difficult to listen to someone who isn’t directly involved in it make so many judgements. If you get what I mean lol (i’m just adding my two cents, not trying to pick a fight at all)
I left the marauders fandom years and years ago when I was told I was homophobic because I shipped Blackinnon, and not wolfstar. strange time man.
i think that my personal biggest gripe with the marauders fandom as an outsider (and a hater) is how they always try to slither into things and mostly videos that have nothing to do with HP and expect everyone around them to agree? like i cannot tell you the amount of times ive went to the comments on a 'come on eileen' tiktok and saw ppl going "omgggggg this is soooooo remus sirius james coded!!!11!!1" same thing with Anything david bowie related and i know this sounds petty but it makes my blood Boil. i think that because they dont really have any actual source material to cling to they try to gather pieces of completely unrelated things to try and add it to their already weak web of "canon marauders stuff" and everyone around just has to like. deal with them.
idk it just really annoys me and kind of reminds me of how back in 2020-2021 dnf fans would take literally Any post with the colours blue and green or the song heatwaves and make it about them and i think that this marauders shit is just our 2024 equivalent of that so maybe thats why it annoys me sm? but yeah anything harry potter related being praised and spread around in the year of our lord 2024 makes me iffy
People always say that they think the marauders fandom is so welcoming since its all headcannons. That is until you dont think the death eaters should be babied and is characterized until there nothing more then softy uwu gay trans boy, covered in tats gay with dyed hair, and blonde top pandoras twin who didnt deserve to die. Or that you think that jilly is better than jegulus since jegulus is incest,james would hate and bully regulus, and it states very clearly in the books how james only had his eyes on lilly. And they also for some strange reason think regulus got beat and abused more than sirius. But sirius was the trouble kid who stood up for himself and others. While regulus followed the family rules and adored voldumort. They also for some reason think that eegulus was forced into being a death eater. But thats just simply not true. His parents werent even death eaters,so why would they force him into it??? And when its a sirius black angst vid,all people yap about is how sorry they are for regulus! Byw if you cant tell regulus is my least fav marauder for various reasons. They also narrow Sirius down to being dumn and weak even though he is probs the second smartes marauder and litteraly solved his friends murder in less then a week plus is proven to be the strongest marauder, they make james a softy who would never hurt a fly even though he can and will if you are mean to his friends or even just a random person. They make remus to just be a gay wherewolf with anger issues and they honestly just totally forgot about peter and how he used to be kind.
My biggest thing about the marauders fandom is that maybe because despite everything they are still an old fandom rooted in a series full of prejudice written by a bigoted woman is that I think a lot of it still has the peak of early 2010's fandom misoginy. Not to say fandom doesn't still have a huge problem with how it treats woman to nowdays but I really think people are trying to move from it except for them as well as the way their manifest it is more similar to old fandom missoginy. The saphic pair that rarely gets any attention and only exist to be supportive of the main m/m pair - a lot of times taking the caretaker role - (dorlene), the dismissal or even villanization of any woman that can be seen as a "problem" for the main m/m pair (it used to be Tonks and now it is Lily) where she either doesn't exist, has as ony personality trait be a ship cheerleader or is actually secretly abusive. Like at this points the characthers are all colectivally created ocs, you can't even blame JK own misoginistc writing anymore.
As someone who was on the fringes of the Marauder fandom in like 2005-2008…god what have I missed
as a trans person. I don't care HOW detached from canon you say your sub fandom is for this au, it's still originated and connected to the terf books. I had someone act like this fandom au and ocs are original work... like no they're not.
please, just write your own books at this point.
you cannot blame any trans person for being uncomfortable with this sub fandom and it's fans, no matter how much you try to detach it from jkr
I agree. If you support the Harry Potter fandom, you support J.K. Rowling and her bigotry. There is no way to separate the art from the artist when the artist specifically says that any support of her art validates and supports her views.
The books arent terf.
@@MelissaWickersham-k4ou take her seriously?
It’s not transphobic to like or be a fan of Harry Potter i disagree
@@mirandawhitehead6932 It is unethical to support an artist who believes in harmful causes and donates their money to harmful political groups.
It's disheartening how fast I clicked on your video, because the wolfstar fandom used to be such a home to me. I remember I got really into it when i was 17 - i was queer, and poor, and i really loved the way remus lupin was portrayed, i saw myself in him in a way. a lot of the fics i scrolled past or even read were a bit shit from a literary point of view, but a few of the works i read completely changed my outlook on queerness and what it meant to be out. i also honestly loved how the narrative was influenced by the ever looming threat of war, even the fics that didn't mention it were still about it in a way ; and i spent long nights on the fics that went deep into how dangerous organizations ensnare young people and pit them against each other. it felt incredibly real, in a way the original books never really had, to me. they wrote better than jk by far
i never completely understood how and why i stopped reading wolfstar. maybe i got too old. can't eternally read about 15yo kids who have homework and a bedtime, can you, you have to jump to other fandoms eventually, you grow old. i still think the themes were worth reading and writing about, and i'm still grateful for the authors.
not grateful for jkr though, obviously. ultimately someone else, a less horrible person, would have published a book that would have helped me similarly. the love and fun i got from hp and its fandoms were not worth the strain on trans people worldwide.
15:55 'I don't want some 18 year old kid to get death threats over writing a fic' 📢📢📢📢📢📢📢 YES! THIS, EXACTLY!!
I hate the way marauders fans hate Snape. He's meant to be a morally grey character and the marauders fans can't handle that, they go with the atyd view of him which is not cannon, basically him and remus' background were switched and so people think snape is someone with no background. not saying his background is grounds for defense of his treatment of some of his students, its not but it explains a lot of what he does, bad and good. its important to his character that he was abused and came from an unloving household and its equally as important that he was hard core bullied by the marauders. They like the marauders even though they sexually harass snape and try to kill him and almost end up succeeding but cry when their told their beloved characters are the reason snape is such an asshole at times/ most of the times we see him on screen.....like if I were to say im a snape fan to a marauders fan I would be lectured and made fun of which is rich coming from them....
Yes ! I like atyd (like really really) but the way the marauders are acting is still not ok in the canon
You can write, read work on not perfect characters, on grey characters because it can be really great but why the need to just refuse the canon version so much that you go angry and all about other people liking other characters like ?
@@Dragibussuprematie literally omg u get it bless😭🙏
Not to be a buzz kill... but there's a reason Lily married James instead of Snape... like, yes, both the marauders and Snape were not v good guys. But! 1 Snape called Lily a slur
2 Snape joined the basically wizard n4zis
3 James grew up and became a responsible adult Lily fell in love with while Snape stayed in his Nice Guy mentality
4 the ONLY reason Snape defected from Voldy is not because he suddenly realised that killing people for something they have no choice over, but instead because he realised Voldy was going to kill the woman he still had a crush on. At least 4 years after she firmly rejected him.
5 he had no problem with Voldy killing James and Harry, an innocent baby, Lily was where he drew the line. If Voldy had chosen to kill the Longbottoms instead Snape would have stayed right by his side
6 for the 17 years after Lily's death that he still got to live he didn't get over his crush and bullied children.
Resulting in: this is not a morally grey character, this is a nice guy who joined a group of extremists because the woman he liked didn't like him back and he only "redeemed himself" by doing what his boss told him, his boss who was the only person keeping him out of prison for joining the group of extremists. The marauders fandom isn't cruel to Snape, they are disillusioned with the idea of him being secretly a good guy just because he wasn't as evil as previously believed
@@lola_zo-elfirst of, I hate snape, second, no-one is born evil. You are referring to things snape did way after the time this fandom usually focuses on. Snape's background as well as the bullying he received shaped him into the character he is as an adult.
I totally agree with your thoughts about his relationship with Lili. But isn't the way that the extensive bullying from James and Sirius shaped him something interesting to explore or at least mention?
@lola I agree with all your points about Snape but I will say that it’s still very weird that Lily chose someone who canonically harassed her for years and would not take no for an answer, and bullied someone who used to be her friend.
Like I understand that James did change but it feels like Lily was treated as a prize for him changing, and not someone who would rightfully not want anything to do with him or Severus.
Why does the marauders fandom ignore the fact that the marauders like straight up bullied shape and where kinda instigators
As someone in the UndertaleAU fandom, I like to poke my head around and see what's happening in other fandoms.
I joined the Marauders fandom in 2020, I wouldn't say I'm part of it any more, but I do know that the criticisms about f/f ships and women in general are already discussed in the fandom, a lot of people just do not care, or only pretend to. There's a lot of "I wish we had more Dorlene or Marylily fics" but not a lot of "I'm going to write a Dorlene or Marylily fic". It's brought up often, makes the rounds every couple months, but no one really does anything about it.
As for the JKR stuff, in 2020 when all of her bigotry became more well known, people were renouncing her actively, whereas nowadays it's considered a given that a marauders fan does not support JKR, so she isn't talked about, down to people calling her "she who must not be named", which has stopped educating new people coming in about why she is disliked. I've seen what must be newer members of the fandom posting about how "they" should make a Marauders tv show, or films, or something by JKR, who either don't know or don't care about why she's so hated, or just thought it was "cancel culture's fault".
Very well researched and scripted video
The lesbian relationships in the marauders often aren’t the main ship because the main characters the story’s revolves around is the marauders, aka: Sirius, Remus, James, and Peter. They are the main characters so the most popular ship will involve them in some way. Examples: Sirius/Remus James/Lily James/regulus James/sirius/remus James/sirius James/lily/regulus etc (Peter is usually Asexual/Aromantic in fandom so he doesn’t have really any ships.)
It feels fishy as most unlikeable character (peter) is made asexual/aromatic just to not be left out of narrative, because everyone collectively chose that they don't like writing relationships with him 🫠
It's like "you know what, you don't match my fetish so I'll make you something I don't really care to understand"
@@merunesdrazor Yep, Peter is ugly. That's literally the only reason he's ignored. As you can tell, no one will ever cop to this. It's just very convenient that the one character no one is attracted to can not only safely be left out but also be pointed to as additional "represenation" - two birds with one stone.
@@merunesdrazorFun fact, JKR described Voldemort as being "fully asexual" by the end of the series, because he had destroyed his soul so badly so... that's another thing lmao ughhhh.
He’s seen as asexual? I always kinda pictured him as an incel. I mean, I imagine he liked plenty of people but lacked the courage to reach out.
I got in to the Marauders fandom in 2013, so by 2020 I was passed it and wasn't even reading fanfiction. Its crazy to hear how the Marauders fandom "started" in 2020 on tiktok when I imagine the majority of us have actually been knocking around for a decade at this point?
I was writing marauder fan fiction way back in 2005 and I was far from the only one. It’s far far older than she thinks.
hi, as I mentioned in the video, I'm aware that marauders fans have been around for a long time! I am talking about the viral TikTok phenomenon of the marauders fandom, particularly as a fandom that defines itself as almost completely separate from and in full opposition to basically every other aspect of Harry Potter. Apologies if that wasn't completely clear in the video - there's a lot I couldn't get to if I didn't want the video to be hours long lol
@theunreliablenarratorshow hi! I thought it was clear - I just think that the Marauders fandom has completely evolved over the years in to what it is now! Would love to see a longer video on the evolution of the Marauders fandom, as I bet you can split it up into eras (early days, Tumblr era where the fan casts of Ben Barnes, Andrew garfield and Aaron Taylor Johnson started, ATYD, the fall out of the tik tok boom, and where we are now).
Not many fandoms have such distinct eras I think! X
Girl in the middle you just started to speak in Portuguese (Boa sorte para aprender português)…..honestly from my point of view as an old marauders fan I was a fan of everything around it: the og fan cast and the REAL stuff they did. The 70s vibe, the lore people were creating with their creativity was phenomenal and giving a new life to the fandom of hp. It has gone way beyond me and I’ve outgrown it however it’s real fun to see how far it has gone and how people turned it into jk Rowling biggest nightmare (which very well done) this is a slap in the face for her and I love it
Also is there any marauders fanfic that Jackson want throws a party?
Hahaha obrigada pela sorte!! And you know, I haven't seen any Jackson Wang cameos but I would not be too surprised!
I kinda thought the marauders fandom was just an excuse to write Sirius x lupin stuff
Is wild how kids, teens and even adults that are fans of the atyd universe (as how i will call this fandom stuff) and that supousedly care about diversity and justice decided to take the work of a fascists to made their stuff in place of deconstruct the work and see it in other lens that authors and some fans have being see it or find real leftiest works made my people that is not white european/usamerican and probably middle class or upper class. Then they go and make popular of jk work again, go to the parks, buy merch, and in general feed the algoritm. I get old fans that pirate stuff, aren't reactionary about the books (specially the ones that didn't put jk in a pedestal ever and had critical thinking skills), and don't give money to the women nor the companies, but the new generations that see themselves as more progressive and "inclusive"? like wut? I mean, not surprised they are usa ppl in tiktok, but stil, you know. And is beyond dissapointing how even new generations prefer things that are part of the mainstream media and already famous and popular. Sad that ppl chose things based in popularity and mainstream status fully on board with capitalist media, then speak about justice and diversity, and war conflicts
Oh the Sirius, Snape debate...the constnat annoyance of my fandom existance. I think their's like a parallel side of the marauder's fandom, that'S the dark marauder's fandom, where there's suddenly charcters like Severus, Evan Rosier, Mulciber, Regulus Black, Lucius and Narcissa Malfoy, Bellatrix and so on, that are very important. And in that side of fandom. The Snape, Sirius conversation is the entire other way around. I really think it's a bit annoying, over all. Especially since these two characters are technically on the same side, but you will rarely find a fic where they're willing to work together.
The part about fanon ideas being seen as practically canon, I think is quite common in all fandom. And it's mostly annoying, when it gets thrown into actual discussions about canon, partially because it's almost impossible to untangle. Like the idea that Sirius was abused takes its cues from canon, so it's hard to convincingly argue against it, because there's just enough canon in it.
One of the points in Harry Potter is that people aren't noble or wicked, but have good and bad things. When attempting to simplify some of the characters in the series, the Marauders Fandom ends up creating their own version of the characters in the original series and makes them either excellent people who are the personification of good and endured a lot in their lives (adding to their goodness) or just pure evil, who have no justification for being the way they are. This makes me believe the fandom is made up of superficial people who are not interested in understanding good and evil better. Instead they are like children, and they decide what happens to the characters so in the end they conform to their expectations. I'm afraid I was a bit confusing, but what I thought by watching this video was that 1) they are extremely woke and keep trying to find some sort of villain to look like victims (just as they did with the JKR hatred) and 2) they are superficial and ignorant people who stick to their comfort zones and their sugarcoated vision of a perfect universe, where people are either completely good or completely evil.
i think it's funny how you mention that it's problematic that snape is so hated by the marauders fandom when i know there are (or at least were? it's been a while since i was into hp) MANY snape stans out there, they're just a separate fandom entirely
canon marauders would bully their fanon version + the fanon fans. just look at how they treated the one weird kid who was most queer coded (imo), snape. edit. and im not saying its wrong for people to have headcanons or go off canon. do what makes u happy. but it is still kinda funny. and sometimes bit annoying when they forget canon and make baseless claims..
i cant see my reply but basically. a man forced to wear womens clothes due to poverty. long hair. feminine hand writing. only female friends. bullied for bein weirdo aka q*eer in their times.
@@jeevansoggi6527sad/emo/quiet/bookish boys are now queer coded
How is snape queer coded lmfaoo he would literally be homophobic or some shiii
@@floofiee @jeevansoggi6527 quoting from tumblr post as i suck in writing and phrasing my thoughs.
" wearing his mothers clothes as a child (he was made fun of this by petunia)
having a ‘feminine handwriting’ and often being mistaken for a girl because of it (as shown by harry, hermione and ginny in the books and movies)
how SWM (an incident where he was publicly exposed in front of the entire school) was his worst memory when he has many others (witnessing the domestic abuse of his mother, being whipped by his father, growing up dirt poor in the slums, almost getting murdered) could read as trans coded in so many ways
how he was dressed in women’s clothing as a way at to laughed at when he was Neville’s boggart (which could also read as trans coded due to JK Rowling’s obvious hatred for trans people)
in addition, he was never once shown or seen to say or do anything remotely suggesting that he was homophobic,---
severus snape was queer, not necessarily in terms of sexuality in canon, but in terms of who he was. he was a dirt poor half blood with an abusive alcoholic father, grew up in the slums, went to hogwarts which in every definition of the word was an elite private school that catered to pureblood nepo babies. severus didn’t have a dime to his name. he was dirty and poor and odd and queer."
in my bi eyes he is bi aka queer af, but yeah i project my bi-ness into all my faves. haha.
also no him being forced fem does not make him sexually or gender queer, but in the eyes of queerphobes, he is queer.
Snape queer coded? the one that had the hots for lily since 10 years old? LMAOOOO
@@jeevansoggi6527 can we stop with this bullshit of "FeMiNiNE" traits = gay? Thats the most dumbass shit ever invented by humanity
FINALLY! Someone else who disapproves of this appalling fandom. i was honestly beyond shocked when i first found out they were a thing... it's legit a fandom glorifying bullies. From HP, a fandom where the protagonist Harry was bullied at home and at school.... how did this even happen?! And how have we twisted the story of James the bully and Snape the victim so much as to now victim-blame a lonely canonically abused boy? It's no wonder Snape didn't grow up well-adjusted! He was abused at home as well as at school. No therapy whatsoever or anyone to talk to. Of course he got dragged into Voldemort's group. What's James's excuse? Spoiled popular rich kid who got the girl. lol. I hate James. T‸T Like Snape, I'm glad he died.
The Harry raised by that monster as well as his complacent mum wouldn't be the Harry we all know and love. He'd have grown up spoiled & rich, having a lot more in common with Draco Malfoy lol.
as a brazilian i was really suprise when she mentioned the words in portuguese (loved the video btw)
I really love your video and i agree with most of the points. I have no idea why, maybe it’s just my character, but I can’t really fall in love with this fandom because i saw many toxicity in it.
I understand about the denial of canon, it throws me off often.
One thing that is hard to swallow for me is the hatred of Dumbledore, who was my favourite as a kid. And Marauders fandom threw every good bit of him from canon and chose to see only manipulation and coldness.
Thank you for the video again, it was nice to hear different perspectives
Sometimes I feel like the Marauders fandom could go even further in separating their fandom from JK Rowling's work by renaming the characters and everything else connected to Harry Potter and just fully turning the characters into OCs. Like the deoncelerization thing that happened to a lot of characters from Onceler roleplays once that fandom started dying down. A bit of a weird example but it's one of the only things I could think of other than SML after getting copyrighted by Nintendo, and I don't know which of those examples is weirder. But I think it's a good idea, less association with TERFs and more freedom of what to do with the characters, in a kind of Goncharov-like way. And I say this as a member of a small but also HP-adjacent fandom (the A Very Potter Musical fandom), which is a lot less reliant on fanon because we have three whole musicals to work off of, but is also, as a parody, already very different from Harry Potter. Still very connected to the Harry Potter francise, though, and I get sad when I remember that.
that's a really interesting idea! I don't think I've ever heard of anything quite like that happening before, but I agree that it would be really cool to see!
Who is going to read some loser's OC stuff? All those thousands of kudos on big maradeur works simply won't happen with originals lol
@@KOTEBANAROT They could use keys for the names like chatfics do. The process would take time, it wouldn't be instant. And all the characters would still be like the character they're based on. Also people who make OCs are not losers.
Sorry but "Deoncelerization" is the funniest thing I have heard all week
My issue with these kind of fandoms in general is they usually become so insulated that they assume things are true when they aren't. For a different HP related example, there was a period where Hermione was announced as being black for the Broadway show, and fans took that and ran with it confirming she *has* to be black in fandom. This led to people literally accusing artists of being racists for having had, or currently depicting her as white. Like even if you and what feels like a huge chunk of people all agree something *should be* a certain way does not mean every casual fan ever has that beamed into their brain and accepts it as gospel. I see it mostly now with the as mentioned in this video "accepted" depictions of these characters
my least favourite thing about the marauders fandom is when they tell real life trans people, who are just living their lives and creating content that is not at all related to hp, that they headcanon a marauder to look like them. sweetie, are you sure you want to tell a trans person that they remind you of an oc a transphobe made? don't even get me started on that time i saw someone tell a trans woman that she gave off sirius black vibes, bestie sirius is a man (in canon) maybe don't say that to a woman
I was not expecting to hear portuguese words out of nowhere but by all means vai com tudo, querida
In the 90s a lot of anime and manga fandom was based on fanon rather than canon, the reason being that large parts of the canon were not (officially) available to Western (esp US) readers.
It's interesting to see a similar development in a fandom where the canon is officially, but not "morally" available with people who consume fanon actively boycotting the canon.
Another difference between let's say the Ranma 1/2 fandom in the 90s and the Marauders fandom is that the Ranma 1/2 fanon characterizations were based on what was essentially a game of telephone involving countless fantranslations, hearsay about supposed canon developments and countless fanfictions, whereas the Matauders fandom seems to be largely based on a single source which is something I haven't seen before.
oh that's so interesting! i've vaguely heard of stuff like that with manga/anime because of the lack of translations but as someone who's never been hugely into it i only have a passing understanding. and yeah the single source thing is wild! i've pretty often been in fandoms where there's been one fic that was so popular it was considered "basically canon," but it's a whole other can of worms when there basically IS NO CANON to go off of at all! thanks for watching!
Such a good deep dive. A very well spoken video. I subscribed!
Thank you so much!
6:13 the star wars fandom: oh. you sweet summer children
I also dont get this fandom. And some headcanons like trans Regulus or James x regulus or Wolfstar. Those stuff arent canon but those ideas anre not incherantly bad. Just have to be well represented. Wolfstar is a great ship, and Regulus wasnt second stage character. Or vital to the story. It may seem like a headcanon that was made to stic it to jk rowling, but when you think about his role in the story and how nasty the Black family was. Such act of defience as speaking to they're parents"Mom dad, (aunt , uncle) I am not your daughter, Im a boy" That thing would get Regulus splapped so hard to the face and get disowned as well. This is intresting headcanon. And would make Regugus story even more tragic that the only person who remebered Regulus as a boy is the one who hated him the most. His brother.
The Marauders is part of Harry Potter so its still HP Fandom. :)
Technically yes, but factually most marauders hate the author for good reason. I mean... the fandom tries to make as much as possible gay (Dorcas Meadows and Marlene McKinnon, Wolfstar, Jegulus) for the purpose of spiting JKR
The question is, how long is something still part of a fandom when it denies and rejects everything cannon except the names.
@@lola_zo-el and yet they continuously use characters that SHE created 😂😂😂 That's not how it works. She created the characters, period
I mentioned how Remus was actually related to Sirius in the book’s and you would have thought I started a war. Like yes ship what you want but that is literally cannon why are you mad?! Some fans really need to read the source material again cause it’s insane.
.... then he is related to Tonks as well. UGH
aren't like most pureblood family's related in some way bc of the constant marriages between them 😂
i really like how the marauders existed as a fandom created almost entirely by the fans
as a collective creative project it is super interesting
i love how there's a widely agreed upon canon by popular consensus among people
i wont disagree that there are problematic aspects, but im not going to stand on a moral highground about it (mostly bc idgaf abt most harry potter related things)
idt there's anything wrong with kids participating in fandom, actually i think its a very constructive and important space for people of all ages
cringe is dead, long live cringe, etc etc
The way I see it, though, the difference between Sirius and Snape is this:
Okay lets first start with their similar upbringings
Snape grew up in a physically abusive household. We know this. While it's not explicitly mentioned that Sirius was abused by his family, there are several pieces of context we can use to come to this not-so-far-fetched conclusion.
1) Walburga's portrait continues to hurl extremely graphic threats and insults at him in the Order of the Phoenix - we know that the magical portraits usually are very accurate portrayals of the residents when they were alive. To say that Walburga alone doesn't fit in this category would be, frankly, incorrect
2) Sirius' face was BURNED OFF from the Black family tree. Says enough about how his family viewed him tbh
3) He comes from the BLACK FAMILY. A family thats CANONICALLY bigotted and narcissistic due to their pure blooded heritage, as can be seen in the Malfoy family throughout the books. Luscious Malfoys' wife Narcissa and Bellatrix Lestrange both came from the black family. Enough said about that
I dont think it's pushing it too far to say that Sirius grew up in an abusive household
Now, Sirius starts at Hogwarts and meets the Marauders, who no doubt shows him love and healthy friendships he never had. Snape, on the other hand, meets Lily and forms a close bond with HER. So, both boys had terrible upbringing but grew up to find someone they feltsafe and happy with. The difference, though, is that Snape continued to be a bigotted pure blood by playing into the social hierarchy of the wizarding world, despite the kindness shown to him by Lily. He could've chosen another path, but he ultimately didn't. Sirius, on the other hand, was the complete opposite. He grew up to be the opposite of the Black family legacy and grew up to be an actually good person. Now, the way both characters were written might've had a role in this, considering that throughout the books, Slytherin is portrayed as being the 'evil house' while Griffindor being very much the 'heroic good house'. So i would argue that the characters were initially WRITTEN like this, and that's not necessarily fan doing
"The difference, though, is that Snape continued to be a bigotted pure blood by playing into the social hierarchy of the wizarding world, despite the kindness shown to him by Lily. He could've chosen another path, but he ultimately didn't." Ummm, No. Snape is a half-blood, raised in his abusive muggle father's home and town, then had to deal with the shame of his own muggle heritage as a half-blood in a House in which pure blood is prized over everything else. I doubt Sirius's abuse started before he was sorted into Gryffindor. Before then he was the eldest son, and his parents' heir, and brought up in privilege and wealth. That he would be a Slytherin was probably not even questioned by his family, so it probably wasn't until he ended up in the 'enemy's' house that his troubles began. This is important.
With Snape's background of poverty, neglect and abuse, parents who didn't love him, an appearance close to the standard fairy-tale witch trope (he'd be the Wicked Witch of the West if his skin had been green), that made him thin-skinned, sensitive, and desperate to be loved, it also made him the target of constant bullying. Rowling could have made him the same sort of indulged, self-centered upperclass twit as Lucius, with no reason other than his own feelings of superiority and entitlement to privilege to behave as he does and effectively short-circuited any empathy we might feel for him. As an aside, this is another thing that pissed me off, among the many things which pissed me off about JKR's double standards: Harry being bullied by his cousin was supposed to make us empathize with him and love him all the more, yet we are supposed to ignore the fact that young Severus was horribly bullied by Harry's father James and his right-hand man Sirius and NOT feel much empathy over that - to in fact view Harry as exceptionally noble because he does. Why? Because as a Slytherin future Death Eater, he deserved it, but innocent Harry didn't? The 'it's OK for bad things to happen to characters I hate but not for the same things to happen to the hero' stance is just infuriating in a saga which clearly wants us to make moral judgements, with little nuance, about the various characters. The sorting is an obvious code for whether a character is a good one (noble Gryffindor, friendly Hufflepuff) or a bad one (evil Slytherin, amoral Ravenclaw), which just isn't a realistic idea. Real people don't come in absolutes and it's an especially ridiculous and damaging idea that someone's character is absolutely set at the age of 11. The words "lives up (or down) to expectations" come to mind. Considering his background, it is probably a miracle Snape *didn't* end up a second Voldemort, and I think it was his vestigial moral compass which kept him from it - he *did* choose another path, and gave his life in doing so.
So Sirius being sorted into Gryffindor may have caused him problems at home, but he found acceptance among his housemates and a fast group of friends whose exploits certainly seem more nasty than brave to me. There's a reason it was easy for others to believe Sirius was the one who betrayed the Potters. Snape, on the other hand, once in school, is sorted into Slytherin, and as might be expected of someone in his circumstances, has few social skills, which invites bullying and makes him a social pariah, seemingly even in his own House (notice that not one Slytherin comes to his defense in the bullying scene we see in the Pensieve). There is no evidence that he uses his magical abilities in a way which hurts other people, though he invents spells to do so to people who hurt him. But even when defending himself, he does little damage. He is obviously a swot, but not someone who is admired for that quality. This means open season as far as the Gryffindors are concerned; it's always 3 or 4 against one, with the advantage of the Marauder's Map as well, so there's little Snape can do to defend himself. None of his teachers, including the headmaster, give enough of a fuck to try to stop it, even when it nearly leads to his death. That climactic Pensieve bullying scene, from the order in which The Prince's Tale is told, comes AFTER the "prank" by Sirius Black, so the aftermath doesn't seem to have made much of an impression on Sirius, does it? And even after he promises Lily that he won't bully Severus anymore after he starts dating her, James continued to do so when he could do it without it getting back to her. And Dumbledore had the nerve to be disgusted by the fact that Snape didn't care what happened to James Potter when he came to beg him to save Lily! There aren't many people who would be saintly enough to care about the welfare of someone who made their childhood a living hell for nine months of the year, for seven straight years. Bullying is evil, no matter who is doing it or how much you might dislike the person on the receiving end.
Sorry for the essay - just had to get that off my chest.😉
@larkmacgregor3143 Oh yes! I apologise for the mix-up on Snape's heritage ( It's been a while since I last read the books). I agree with you on JK's double standards and boxing kids into good and evil: that's simply ridiculous. And also on your point about the Marauders constantly bullying Sirius and how they never really faced repurcussions for it. The only way it was addressed in the books is by Sirius laughing it off and telling Harry that they were just dumb kittle kids, but that doesn't compensate for the emotional torture they put Snape through: that was honestly gross. However, I think there's still more to be said about Snape. I wrote my original post comparing Sirius and Snape as children, but didn't really delve into their characters as adults, which I will now do. What we see of Sirius as an adult is limited apart from him being Harry's supportive godfather and some remarks towards Snape that show that he hasn't quite moved on from his childhood,and continues to view people through a similar lense as he did then. This is emphasized by the fact that Sirius seems to think Harry is his father, James, aswas b4ought up in the Order of the Phoenix. I think it's safe to say that we can't compare the adulthood of both characters to great extent, but it's worth noting Snape's character as a matured adult even if it doesn't directly compare with Sirius's.
1) He continues to bully Harry all throughout the 7 books. While I understand that Harry would've reminded Snape of James, what with his popularity and success in the quidditch pitch, it's absolutely not acceptable for a 30-something year old to abuse a literal child. Snape took revenge on an 11 year old for things that said 11 year old couldn't possibly have been responsible for on any level.
2) Neville's biggest fear in Prisoner of Azkaban was Snape. Note that this is the child who remembers his parents' screams when they were being TORTURED. The fact that his fear of Snape is bigger than hearing those screams again or torture itself tells enough about that point, I think
3) If the Chosen One was Neville instead of Harry, Snape would not have given two shits about the "good side." I think it's safe to assume that Wnape would've continued to be a most loyal Death Eater if Lily hasn't been involved in the crossfire. This makes Snape's entire "redemption arc" useless because he never changed as a person; his obsession with Lily just came into play. You can't argue that Snape decided to "be good" AFTER Lily's death because we see him being a terrible person throughout the books. (Again, note his bullying of the Griffindors)
There's probably more I could say, but I'll stop here as. This IS getting quite long.
Also, I think we can all agree that Dumbledore wasn't the great wizard he was portrayed to be, but rather a selfish , manipulative, terrifying person (He literally raised Harry i the dark that he was to die at the right time to save the world)
My point here is that neither Snape nor Sirus were entirely good or bad, as you rightfully pointed out, but the fandom hating on Snape has less to do with double standards in the fandom and more to do with the choices Snape made (He may have been influenced to make those choices in some ways, but ultimately, he did make them)
I don’t really agree. I feel like the big difference between Snape and serious is that serious got to feel safe at Hogwarts, he had a place to flee his family
Snape was bullied in what should have been a safe place
I agree, and you can say that they both didn't entirely grow out of their prejudices after James' murder. Snape continued to loathe James and passed it down to Harry, while Sirus remained hostile towards Snape long after James' death. They both also played a role in James' death, Snape by telling Voldemort about the prophecy and Sirius for convincing James and Lily into switching him as secret keeper with Peter. Snape and Sirius also had an unhealthy manner of comparing Harry to James. Dumbledore and Molly even have to remind Snape and Sirius that Harry isn't James.
@@rumi72441&2: Every single professor is like that, Hagrid made fun of a childs appearance and disfigured a child, Minerva locked Neville out of the Gryffindor common room when there is literally a mass murd3rer outside + went out of her way to make fun of Neville, Madam Pince hexed Harry and Ginny's things, ..., they are just viewed as saints because they favour Harry, and that's probably where Severus got that + it might be bad to target a house (Gryffindor) but isn't anyone doing that themselves... And how would Neville get trauma when he wasn't the one who is actually being tortured. Harry's boggart was a dementor, Ron's was a spider, Hermione is failing grades, Parvati is a snake, and Seamus is a banshee, and Ron's boggart changed completely in a while. So their boggart hasn't processed yet, so it's also possible that Neville's boggart changed... Also Minerva is worse than Severus because Minnie actually cheats the school rules for Harry and Severus doesn't for his Slytherins. ... Minerva also locked Neville out and it's possible that Neville didn't think much of it. So this is just normal in the Wizarding World.
I'm not that heavily involved in the marauders fandom when I first found out about them I thought they were cool and I wanted to be a part of it but when i found out how they babygirl death eaters people who didn't give a fuck about genocide and took a part in it really turned me away and also the whole jegulus thing like that ship makes absolutely no sense
The marauders fandom. A fandom so powerful, popular, so internet famous people think it's canon.
I was deep in the marauders fandom some 15 years ago. Since then I've first passively (outgrew it) and then actively (Jo stuff) excited the HP-sphere. But I do love to look through the window in videos like this. From what I can tell the dominant fanon now is nothing at all like what I remember - for better, for worse.
lowkey this happened to the les mis fandom in 2012 lmao. like we all collectively ignored that it's about jean valjean in the 19th century and made everything about the barricade boys being gay in a modern au. good times, man. i hope the ghost of victor hugo knows what he's done having put nine shippable twinks together in his book like that.
I’m not even in the Marauders fandom but I read All The Young Dudes during a breakdown last February and I finished it in three weeks, would recommend though it’s good
i just think that half the 'Marauders' fandom are actually 'ATYD' fandom, and that's okay, but they should acknowledge that. you shouldnt have to know a specific piece of fan content in order to be able to engage with a general fandom. I see people all the time asking what they need to do to get into 'The Marauders Fandom' and everyones like Read All the Young Dudes!!!!!!! and I'm like: no. Read the source material (library or second hand. JKR doesnt need more money) and then go to Ao3, filter a ship you like and filter old-to-new (to get away from any recent ATYD-biased fics) and just read everything that takes your fancy. I'm talking read stuff from 2010, before the characterisations became so one-note and people didnt get attacked for portraying characters as anything outside of what tiktok deems the characters' personalities to be. One fanfiction doesnt 'enter' you into a fandom like its some sort of biblical text. and you shouldnt have to have read that one fanfiction in order to have a coherent convo with someone else supposedly in that fandom. If you have never read more than the most popular five fanfics, and you have zero headcanons that arent based on those texts, you are not in the 'Marauders' fandom, youre in 'ATYD/other popular fanfic' fandom.
This is genuinely fascinating to me. I used to be a HP fan back in the early 00's and I was kinda part of the Marauders fandom at the time? More or less anyway, most of my friends were really into it so I kinda got into it too, plus I was a big Remus fan. But I haven't been keeping up with it at all since like 2005 or so. All of this was new to me. Well except maybe the Indian James thing, I think I've seen fanart of that headcanon on Tumblr at some point
The funny thing is, at one point me and my friends started roleplaying... well not really the Marauders but the Marauders minus Peter plus Lily. And altho it started as kind of a joke, it developed into our own AU where James and Lily were both trans men (I played James btw). It kinda became our own fanon that only the four of us were contributing to, like a mini fandom
(I'm not a trans man, to be clear, but I did later realise that I was nonbinary, I just didn't really know that was an option back when I was a teenager)
So that was my "Marauders fandom" experience (I did read some fanfic too, just not as much as my friends bc I just wasn't all that into the ships... and I kinda just wanted to read about Remus and Sirius as adults anyway because I thought that was way more interesting. Oh also I did actually also participate in a bigger message board roleplay event thing that was set in the Marauders era where I played Peter. I wasn't originally supposed to but the original Peter dropped out before even getting properly started and they needed a substitute so I volunteered. That was An Experience, because literally everybody hated me for no reason from the start lmao. It got so bad that eventually some people felt sorry for me and started befriending my Peter. I didn't actually feel all that bad since it's not like I had even wanted the role in the first place. I just found it funny and kind of interesting as a social experiment)
Anyway, sorry for the rambling. The video was interesting and also brought back all these buried memories...
this is all just giving thomas jefferson miku binder
This is just what fandoms are now a day, and it sucks! Like it's all fun and games, until you disagree with someone and get dogpiled by a bunch of toxic STANS as I like to call them. "Fans" that are just as toxic as people who just joins fandoms to hate on them and harass the normal fans. It goes both ways people! You can be passionate about a special intrest, but, you must also remeber that it's FICTIONAL in the end. Like, I have been called a r*pist, a abuse apologizest and told to kill myself, because I don't agree with someone. And it hurts to be told things like that. Like, respect REAL people! You are saying these things to a REAL person! It's really screwed up 😬
Honestly I completely left all Hp related fandom, for a fandom that hates the creator for being a bigot. They are not ashamed of being bigots themsleves.
Hi, after the little existencial crisis post realization that times really fly, I have the constructive observation that you could've make more clear in the intro that the video was going to be focusing, in what may be an actual state of the fandom and its current development of tiktok.
Because for a hot moment I understood that you were saying that the fandom was like almost an AO3-TT only, kind of thing, , so my first defensive reaction was, wait, how are you no talking about tumblr, and devianart, all the viral fancasting, fb pages, etc.??? And wasn't until I read the comments and your replies that I understood what was happening, what you were trying to say, and in what context were you starting. (And then the reflection of, omg I read those books like 15 years ago, my wolfstar era was like 10 years ago kick in)
But that been said, I really liked your video, and I think is so interesting that so many of the problems you talk about the marauders fandom are problems that so many fandoms and fanfictions face, and that they need to be acknowledge more, like the fetishization of gay couples, lack of representation of female characters or female relationships, the gatekeeping, or how in the idealization of characters can end up in a "they can do no wrong" and oversimplification of was at some point a really interesting theme or topic.
TLDR: great video, mom maybe I am a milenial
have you heard about the other side of hp fandom? Like harrymort/tomarry pairing😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I am a marauder fan since PoA was released - I have fanfictions I wrote at 12yo on my computer (2003). I had a pause between 2008 and 2021 when I did not actively read or write fanfictions. I was very happy to find new good content but I really notice that a lot of authors never read the books ^^° At one point I read a discussion why Remus didn't had any visible scars in a fanfiction. Because there WERE NON IN THE BOOKS! I don't care that much about those minor details but as I was a potterhead I am aware of the source material. I mostly avoid Jegulus (with very few exceptions), because it doesn't make sense for me. Probably they never even TALKED.
But HP fandom is a safe place for me. I got back into it when I was very down and overwhelmed by real life. Femslash is quite seldom because the big fandoms don't have that many fleshed out female characters you can work with. Especially in Harry Potter I can think of very few lesbian couples that would make sense for me. It's more effort to make them believable. But I read a good fanfiction on Madame Hooch and McGonnagal once.
In Star Trek it's different ;)
Fanfictions are a playground - yes. They help you with a world and some characters to start your own story. Especially in HP there are so many plotholes that your can really play with different storylines and character arcs. There is an essay about why wolfstar is so loved. It's because your can play with it. How did the two characters from so different backgrounds (and the Blacks HATED "half-humans") together? How did the marauders work as a group? How did it change when Sirius made his cruel jokes on Snape? And why and how did he? Why did he move to James at 16? How did the relationships between all marauders get so messed up that they lost their trust in each other during the war? Or you start after prison and explore trauma and loss. There are some background characters that are not that flashed out you really can rewrite and make your own.
I also like character studies in AUs if they are well made.
I kinda stopped participating in the fandom after 2021 bc of tiktok up until than I enjoyed it so much. I dont like atyd but I read it 2 times or so. I spent a good chunk of my marauders fanning without ever reading atyd
I have to disagree. I'm showing my age, but I was in college in 2010 and my friends and I were nerding out about the marauders. Our favorite fanfic was the shoebox project which I totally recommend.
I fell out of love with this fandom, the world and the whole franchise after I saw through Rowlings bullshit and her disgusting views seeping into her writing. I cant pick up these books or fanfics anymore and just enjoy them. But at a time I was a fan and I specifically liked this time period in the canon. But I was a very passive fan and the nonsense I would have been interested in just wasnt out there. And I highly doubt fans would like it...
Namely I kinda liked Snape. I never considered him good. Frankly I dont even consider the Marauders good. They were all assholes and bad people in some shape or form. Some more, some less. Some grew out of it, some didnt. I would have liked to see less highschool romance drama and more of them as adults. Like yeah one of them was dead and the other a runaway traitor. But we saw Remus relying on Snapes help and later Sirius was stuck around him too. He was in theory on their side and if I had written fanfic I would have shipped those ships instead. Messy, toxic and perfecly bad ships. For funzies.
The marauders fandom is a cult
idk shit about the current marauders fandom but i was there in the ancient times on tumblr where ben barnes as sirius black was born. i also read atyd as it was updating which was wild. half the stuff you talked about i was completely lost about and the other half was stuff i remembered from tumblr lol. i think it's hilarious how marauders writers basically invented a canon of their own and this was definitely happening on tumblr way back in the pre atyd times too. i was there when indian james potter became a thing. that was kind of fun actually people saw one post and liked it so much they decided to make it fanon
As a trans woman who grew up with Harry Potter to the point that it was the number one of the fandoms I was a part of, I still struggle with leaving it. It was just such a big part of my life and I also discovered I was trans around the time when She Who Must Not Be Named made her first transphobic tweet in 2020.
And with reaction videos having grown to be the new thing for a while now (as far as I was aware of it), I both cringe whenever a channel I follow does a HP reaction while also having the urge to explain lore to them when they have questions about it and thus still participating in the fandom myself.
I am surprised that the Marauder fandom exploded so much since I became aware of it in 2016 or so.
Also, I have now found a way of dealing with the fact that I still love the concept of a hidden magical world within our own modern one:
I’ll just write an original story myself (though I doubt that I will actually start writing it soon - all I have is a background summary - and I have other original stories that I want to finish first).
"I watch Minecraft videos every single day" girl, same.
blaming tiktok for the boom of marauders is tough enough, tumblr girls now are going crazy about it, but i understand that you talking about the new era
Hot Take but there's micro-transactions for multiple things, not just mediocre Harry Potter apps. Pokemon basically started this with Pokemon Go, now everything has a mobile app to get money from people, that's why a lot have a warning label for kids to ask for permission before downloading the app
Love this video just one little thing: Sirius escaped in the 3rd book: prisoner of Azkaban. And also JKR is not just disliked, our whole fandom actually hates her because most of us are gay/trans/neurodivergent. The only character that is hated as much as JKR is Dumbledor. And i can understand why you had this view on Harry Potter and also from my experience many fans mean little to no representation in the Harry Potter books but there are definitely different boooks. The Snapae issue is true. I myself identify as marauders fan and i dont like Snape but i dont hate him i just have different preferencies and i also dont really like how he is treated. But oterwise its a good video for someone who didnt read the fanfics and its not really their thing.
why is Dumbledore hated in the marauders fandom? I'm curious because he's my favourite character along with Sirius in the 7 canon books.
Well for me for example my favorite character is Regulus and many of us think that all these characters died because of dumbledore. He was really powerful wizard and he knew many things and could prevent almost every death and we are just pissed at him that he used literal children in war that he caused. He knew Tom was evil and dangerous and he did nothing to prevent him from becoming this evil dark wizard. But I understand that if you only read boooks where he is literally worshiped by Harry and it’s from his point of view that you like him but for many of us he manipulated and caused deaths to our favorite and comfort characters.
@@judithlandova5319your favorite characters did it to themselves with their idiot plan of making the obviously evil rat man their secret keeper. Also being a regulus fan is such an L i basically dont even have to say anything about it lol
But basically all of your arguments about dumbledore are a simple flowchart that says: DID DUMBLEDORE DO SOMETHING? If yes, hes a manipulator. If not, he doesnt care. Simple as
@@KOTEBANAROTdamn calm down, they can like whoever they want. And it’s their opinion god damn
@@KOTEBANAROT I agree the Dumbledore hate is embarrassing as fuck
I always tell people I am a Marauders fan and not a Harry Potter fan. I see these fandoms as completely different things. I can’t stand canon James. He is a terrible person and I don’t know what Lily saw in him. BUT I love Marauders’ canon James. It took me a long time to like him even in a canon I find completely different from Harry Potter. This version of James is a kind mom-like friend. I still don’t like the Snape hate though. I don’t think Snape is close to a good person but Harry Potter James is a worse.
The point of this is that I don’t see these two fandoms as the same thing and I think that’s why I connect to the characters more. It’s all people making stuff up to make something fun they can use to interact with others and I find that very nice.
After such a long time you probably worked it out already, but here goes one pronunciation tip: you said “ruim” too fast, make the U a little longer, like rUim :) your “mau” is perfect though. Plus, fun fact: “maL” is an adverb like “badly”, while maU is an adjective like “bad”, but they pronounce the same
Haha yeah my pronunciation was definitely not perfect, I think I was nervous 😔 thank you!!
i was a harry potter fan back in the day and stopped reading the books after rowlings transphobia was shown, but i have read atyd (mostly because during the pandemic i felt depressed af and since i didnt want to read the hp books, which had become my source of comfort as a kid, i decided to give fanfics a chance) and i liked it fine, it was very angsty. since then, i have read other popular fics, not many mind you, cause theyre so long, but enough to be somewhat familiar with the fandom (although since im not on tiktok i do think i miss on a lot of what constitutes the fandom) and, though i do agree with your criticisms of it, i do want to say that ive seen works that are entirely political in their depiction of systematic racism against the muggle borns (usually), ingrained within Hogwarts and the ministry of magic, something that liberal rowling wouldve never dared to do. even atyd, i think, does some interesting things with Lupin's lycanthropy and the systematic discrimination he faces as a result (something that is hinted at in the books if i recall, but never explicitly said).
unlike the books, where voldemort and his desth eaters are evil and hence discriminate against muggle borns, these fics are far more nuanced in their portrayals of systems of oppression and even have the marauders and their friends staging political protests against the bigotry in the ministry. i think thats why im on the other side of the spectrum where i do find so much of value in these fandoms and i think they can have an impact in the world outside, specially seen as the majority of readers are probably young teenagers.
but i do believe that its probably the least interesting aspects of these fics that make it to the mainstream, i hardly ever see anyone mentioning the other werewolves that make an appearance in atyd and their political importance, for example.
Fanfiction and AUs are all fine and good, and don’t think people are obligated to “RESPECT CANNON” when they’re just having fun. But bullying people over ships and headcannons is some real off putting for fandom.
I think Sansukh is for Lord of the Rings the same thing as All the young dudes for Harry Potter. It's Fandom (series of book) that lives it's own life.
Does the North America part in AO3 includes Mexico? As it should
I believe that info was from a survey, so it depends on the interpretation of the person taking the survey, but given that there was no other response that would actually include Mexico, I imagine that any Mexicans would select North America.
Why would fans back in 2000 assume it was canonical authorial intent for Remus and Sirius to be a thing? I can't think of a single MLM relationship that was big around the turn of the millennium, especially in children's fiction.
But that's a silly question to ask. If I know the Marauders fandom, and I do, it was fans queerbaiting themselves.
E: Calling Snape "universally reviled" in the Marauders fandom is certainly new. Everyone I've seen expresses the same sentiment you did - that Snape's childhood is somehow worthy of consideration for the actions he took when he was old enough to know better.
I am a Muslim marauders fan. And even though being part of the lgbtq+ community is a sin in my religion I find it disgusting that people have the need to hate one people! Do what ever makes you happy and love who ever you want! I met a lot of people from the lgbtq+ community and they were all so kind and I didn’t treat them any differently or without the kindness and respect I’d usually give to other people. At the end we’re all humans with souls and hearts. Not to mention I was a huge Harry Potter fan till I heard about jk’s transphobia I totally understand! I wouldn’t want to support someone who’s bullying people that are confident enough to come out.
Not a huge fan of the Marauders era fics, like not really interested in reading about them, but this was a good and informative video about it that the algorithm led me to.
Also, as an aside, I find it very funny that I think a fic with 526,969 words is not long at all. 😅
I've heard that about the fic length from a lot of people! Given that a standard novel word count is anywhere from 70k words to 120k words I think it definitely counts as long though 😅
I have problems with the marauders fandom as well, its why my sister talks about harry potter too much
Well this fandom is actually overrated with nonsense headcannon and fannon, mischaracterize, it was too popular that sometime brainwashed hp to believe that not even cannon like Pandora and Evan are twin, Barty Jr and Luna are uncle-niece, Jelugus,… and so on!