Sandy is the representation of the classic "work hard and be honest despite not being incentivized to do so" I'm glad there are still people like him in the world.
Almost everything he said is wrong. 1. Mercedes reached level 3 autonomy a year ago. BMW is certified to do level2+ at 130kph. Telsa is still stuck at level 2. Even VW is ahead. 2. There's no proof that the vision-only architecture as it is implemented by Tesla(with the extensive use of maps) will ever be able to reach the level of autonomy promised by Tesla nearly 10 years ago. 3. Plasma kinetics is basically a scam. The net energy density makes it totally impractical.
For me this was one of the best shows of yours , .Sandy is a great logical thinker. Together you really make a fantastic pair. Thankyou to the both of you , we'll done.
This show is a joke. Sandy is not an expert on fuel cells or hydrogen technology. Sure he is a smart engineer when it comes to automotive structural matters. He doesn’t know anything about this chemistry stuff. Let’s see him map out the energy efficiency trail on this one. No way can you do it. I can’t do it either I’m just an electrical engineer, I don’t know this chemistry.
I appreciate Sandy a bit more with each video I see. He really displayed his shrewd, keen and deep knowledge of business and technology here. Spiced with some historcal analogies, he really dazzled me!
Big thank you to both of you! Super interesting and entertaining. Sadly I live in Australia where there's nearly a 38 percent tax on on road cost of a Tesla due to the Morrison Government's hated of EVs, yet while we're one of the sunniest countries in the world and we import 95 percent of our petrol (gasoline) and diesel... Morrison isn't clever enough at science to fold a paper...
When I was in grade school in the 1980s we had magazines about solar power and EV research in Australia. There was even an article about a University there that had figured out how to pump charged 🔋 battery fluid in to an EV, capturing the spent liquid and recharging with solar... Over 30 years later I've yet to see any of this tech make it to public use. Very sad. Solar and wind are slowly going up in Arizona and Texas (the two places I've lived) but not nearly as fast as I'd like. Nuclear is too slow in adoption as well 😔
I didn’t either, he obviously doesn’t know the current development and history between the two Japanese companies. If you’re curious look up, Primearth EV Energy and Panasonic’s new venture with Toyota; Prime Planet Energy & Solutions (PPES).
If Sandy could share some math on the solid state discs that would be handy. No information on hydrogen yield per gram of material, and energy in (laser) vs energy out (electric energy out of fuel cell). Until that is shared, it is ‘vaporware’.
Technically, it would still be 'vaporware' even with production. It would then be 'Hydrogen Vapor'-ware. 🤣 You forgot to mention the compressor energy consumption, which would probably consume as much, if not more, energy than the laser.
Well, even without the math we know one thing: hydrogen (for light vehicles) is inefficient as eff (cost lots of energy to make the stuff) and that would - under any circumstances - get worse when you add another manufacturing step (hydrogen to solid hydrogen). So... I think we can jump to the conclusion that this is indeed vaporware.
@@flipadavis I mentioned the compressor and laser because they would both need to be in the vehicle to extract the hydrogen and make it usable to the fuel cell, which in turn powers the vehicle. As such, they would both have a direct impact on the point-of-use efficiency.
@@thomasbonse I was just adding the upstream costs of making the hydrogen into a solid disk form. This is an equivalent energy cost to needing to compress the hydrogen to 10,000 psi in hydrogen tanks. They both take some amount of energy whether they happen on board or off board.
@@flipadavis I'm not disagreeing with you about the inefficiencies, just clarifying why I mentioned certain things and not others. The hydrogen approach, in general, seems to just be another way to extend the fossil fuel industry's useful life.
When I hear “someone has just invented ___”, I assume that it is between 10 years to never from mass production & market reality; but great if they can solve all the issues and get it to real production, taking into account the total environmental costs of the fuel.
He also didn't mention the energy density of the disks. I can't imagine that they're actually so high that you just pop in a small disk every once in a while. I picture it more like you're going to need hundreds of them a week. Hard to say without numbers though.
@@christopherpedersen1820 Their site says their energy storage is 7% smaller than batteries per kWh. That means it would need a NIO-style power pack swap station. It's not going to power a car with a swappable disc thing the size of a small purse.
I realize the dangers associated with hydrogen but I heard Japan has been utilizing it for years so always shocked that I hear about this yet no one after years ever discussed it but this makes sense to me and glad someone like Sandy is behind a different approach, thank you sir. Appreciate a well seasoned professional. I still feel there are options here maybe still needing to be looked at. A small idea about not leaving gas cars in a trash dump, be nice to see a new industry form that can gut the mechanics to replace it into future technology. Just in case anyone is looking for a new company idea. Custom refurb.
Alex, You and Sandy are becoming quite the pair and famous at that... It's nice to see your relationship grow. . Also, that you can disagree and continue to grow... it's great to see ..
It would be interesting to find out how much the lifecycle costs of these hydrogen 'disks' are....to create, to 'recharge', how much range from the disks, etc...
On their website they say "Storage is 30% lighter, 7% smaller, and 17% less expensive than Lithium-ion battery " if you want to change 400kg worth of discs at each charge, be my guest 😂
@@europeanweb Agreed....if this was such a great solution, then - I figured it would be better well known. Maybe this might work out for some niche application, but automotive? I would envision it looking like the older battery swap model, which has struggled in its own right.
The questions that must be answered first are: 1) how much energy can you extract from one of those disks in terms of volume and weight? 2) how much does it cost?
it was off the cuff he made a mistake the cost of this type of Technology would be prohibitive and ridiculous .... Sandy Indulgence in fantasy worlds.... this is RUclips and he got thumbs up
7:30 "analyzing a Y or a 3 or an S, whatever they're trying to compete with ..." Toyota don't really compete with any of those vehicles. The largest bulk of Toyota's sales are in the $20k-30k segment and they're not going to figure out how to make a $20k EV by analyzing a $50k one. The Mirai may be at a Tesla price point but the Prius is not. Toyota already know how to manufacture cars, I'm sure they know perfectly well how to manufacture EVs, but nobody knows how to manufacture a $20k EV with range and reliability and still make a profit.
RAV 4 is 25% of Toyota US sales, Model Y competes with it. Agreed that Tesla is not there yet with a car to compete with Camry due to price point. But if they pass that EV tax credit of $10K, then the Model 3 will be competitive with Camry's price wise.
Agreed, need to acknowledge their business model. Toyota builds highly reliable, reasonable priced cars, never the highest performance or efficiency, and they sell a lot of cars. Even if they wanted to compete with tesla, it would need to be under the Lexus brand.
Toyota had it's chance - they were in partnership with Tesla in Tesla's early years - instead of keep the partnership and utilize Tesla technologies, Toyota decided to terminate the partnership. Obviously Toyota management did not think Tesla could be the future of automobile.
Toyota does not know how to “perfectly well“ make an electric car. It is a new industry, and in so many ways it is not like making a conventional internal combustion engine car. Toyota is good, good at what they do, but that does not automatically translate into being good at something new. Stop worshiping those guys. They are blundering badly At the moment with very bad leader ship. Hopefully there will be a purge. It’s not too late to say Toyota, but I could care less if they are stupid.
Thats the same statement as making a horse pulling a carriage easier then making a benz. I remember hydrogen generator was a sorcery that even then here on youtube pre 2010, anybody trying to pull a discussion about this , almost automatically getting bullied by all the "smart assess ". And then, today happens. And how i wish i can see these smart self claimed assholes eat their own shit. And what do you know! lo and behold, they're still here hanging on on another 'smart' argument that ICE / hybrid engine with hydrogen fuel isnt gonna work. And here i though they've died choked by the shit they had to cew...
@@wizzyno1566 Tesla will deliver at least 1 million EVs this year, 3x that from all other EV manufacturers will be delivered worldwide. That’s “significant” but not as significant as the rate of growth of those deliveries. 100% (doubling) every year and accelerating. Care to do the exponential math in that? Here’s some help, within 5-7 years EVs will become the majority. You obviously don’t live in California, Every other car is a Tesla. It’s a sea of Tesla’s and they are headed everywhere. You might want to rethink your analysis.
I still prefer the idea of plugging in my car. Better yet, if I've got a Power Wall, I'll use nothing but sunlight to power my car. You'll have to beat that to impress me.
You do a great job of listening. Even with a competent person giving opposing views! Well done, I am glad you guys can have a few beers together and still spar.
Panasonic just sold their Tesla stake for $3.6 billion. Along with Panasonic’s outgoing CEO claim that Panasonic must cut Tesla reliance as battery tie-up evolves. Looks to be that Panasonic is looking to cut ties with Tesla soon and focus their joint venture named Prime Planet Energy & Solutions (PPES) to build Solid State Batteries. Fun fact, the company originally called Panasonic EV Energy Co. until 2 June 2010, was founded in 1996 as a joint venture between Toyota and Panasonic, with Panasonic holding 60% of the capital.
Even with a new way of storing hydrogen, the question of efficiency remains (and by introducing new processes efficiency presumably isn't going to get better).
And to add that, hydrogen still has many potential uses, e.g. maybe airplanes due to weight, so always nice to see advancements. We really need to start living a more sustainable life
I think Sandy's timing is off. In my opinion Toyota has done a great job in its plan for making the transition from ICE to EV with APV. At this point how many EV's Tesla can build is a secondary issue. The critical issue is how much infrastructure is in place to support those vehicles including fast charging and service support. There is growing pushback regarding the lack of 3rd party options for servicing Tesla vehicles. You've probably heard about the $700 fix for a break in a cooling system that Tesla wanted to charge the owner $17K to replace the whole battery pack. That's probably one of the most extreme examples but it shouldn't happen. Hybrids are a way to fill the gap between ICE and EV while the infrastructure issues are being worked out. Toyota is one of the leaders in ICE and APV while fine tuning what they have planned for EV. There is no rush. That EV infrastructure, anything remote close to the ubiquitous fueling and servicing of ICE vehicles, is a full decade away in my opinion. I've been involved in the electronics industry for 40 years (electronic component manufacturing) and have been working with solar energy companies for over 20 years. The pace of change on something of this magnitude is not years but decades. Government in concert with the automotive industry (Ford, GM, Tesla, Toyota and other manufacturers) are all going to be involved in making decisions on how that infrastructure is going to be built. It's not going to happen based on Elon's timetable. I think Sandy's 8 years is woefully optimistic in claiming you won't be able to give ICE vehicles away.
I overall agree with you. It's impossible to say when ICE vehicles won't have significant sales anymore. I agree there's no rush. But Toyota and Honda would be better off at least putting out there in the EV space to show they're in the game. But the talk on a lot of EV channels of Toyota going bankrupt because of their current EV status is something I find to be silly.
How much will a hydrogen disc cost when in full production, and how many miles will it produce in a car like Toyota? looks like it would take many discs to go very far. how much would they weigh and cost? Does Sandy know?
With me, the choice for the future EV purchase is pretty simple, give me at least 10 inches of ground clearance( so that we country folks could enjoy the EV revolution as well), 500 miles range and cargo space of rav4 and I will buy the vehicle without thinking much.
I watched a talk between Mr. Toyoda to the Japanese government from Japan. I can understand the Japanese language. He didn't ask for help, money, technology, management, etc. He asked one thing: the government must be aware that Japan doesn't produce enough electric energy to expand BEV. If 10% of cars in public become BEV, Japan needs an additional two nuclear power plants or ten more thermal power plants. Toyota isn't behind EV technology; many countries are not producing enough electricity for BEV. Toyota will continually develop BEV, Plug-In Hybrid, Hybrid, and Fuel Cell. So, they can provide meet demands country by country. Mr. Toyoda is frustrated and upset with the government that they are excited and pushing to buy to consumer EBV that Japan needs more energy resources first. Politicians are not understood technology and infrastructure. They want to look good to the public-the new prime minister, Mr. Kishida order, to build more safe nuclear power plants recently. I think, at last, politicians listened to Mr. Toyoda. Japan would build 1,000 Hydrogen stations by 2030, the news said. With that said, Hydrogen Disc is incredible.
@@kimjennifer652 you can make you research yourself... he has been managing my trade for months and i keep making profits every week, made $ 9,340 last week, thanks Mr Steve
This reminded of Blackberry sticking to their way of mechanical keyboard until they were blindsided by Apple in 2009 with a virtual one. Look at what happened? Thanks Alex and Sandy for this wonderful discussion.
Great interview Alex and loved how Sandy would save Toyota. You have to remember how Toyota got into this mess by ignoring the obvious that electric is the future. Now with some countries and some USA states saying that most passenger ice cars will not be sold after 2030 down from 2035. That gives automakers 5 or 6 years to execute this plan since it takes them 2 to 3 years to develop most vehicles. Toyota will now have to redesign and electrify most models including Lexus, in a short period of time. I think I would just hybrid most of their cars to buy some time and electrify a few key models to save face.
NH4… nitrogen is inert. Just be careful about production of nitrogen oxides. Saudi Arabia is now generating ammonia to ship as green hydrogen… Obviously, best used for agricultural use, but how easily is ammonia reformed for vehicle Fuel cell use work Catalyst longevity requiring high purity?
One of my chem teachers worked for Ballard before teaching, we were learning about them trying to solve the solid state hydrogen in chem class in 2005 so before that.
Toyota partnered w/ Tesla before , with the RAV4-EV... bummer it broke up, and no more were made. Toyota might have kept this now pure-EV (and likely Tesla) customer...
Reason Toyota split with Tesla was because Tesla wouldn't listen to demands in how to make the cars more safe. The undercastings of the batterypacks was too thin. Tesla refused, and Toyota said "good bye". Later some Tesla fires happened, and Tesla ended up doing what Toyota told them to do in the first place, by making the pack more safe.
@@oophus1 "Reason Toyota split with Tesla was because Tesla wouldn't listen to demands in how to make the cars more safe. " The reason Toyota sold their shares of Tesla had nothing to do with how Tesla built the Model S, or its battery pack.
@@phillipzx3754 I was talking about the RAV4 EV project, where Tesla provided battery packs to Toyota. The packs were not safe enough, and Tesla ignored Toyotas request to make them safer. Later Tesla experienced several fires because of pucture damage from under the vehicle and Tesla ended up doing what Toyota told them to do in the first place. Just a bit too late for Toyota.
Oh my gosh, I think there was a documentary about the NUMMI plant called "American Factory". It's well done. The joint venture between GM and Toyota ran from 1984-2010. It was a good effort, but the plant eventually closed. Then Tesla bought it and today it produces Teslas.
The plant in question was the lowest quality plant in the GM system (they made Camaros). It became the highest quality plant in North America. The plant eventually "closed" because there was a 25-year consent agreement between GM & Toyota imposed by the US Government that required the sunset of the plant. Toyota sold it because 25 years had run out as I understand.
Dynamic Kenetics as a hydrogen storage solution has a lot of potential. Then again, storing hydrogen in a metal lattice has been under development since the early 90's. They also seem to be avoiding any mention of cost like the plague so I would need to see if it's an affordable method of handling hydrogen.
I thought the old Nummi plant in Fremont built Toyota is now building Tesla. At time stamp of this video 21:25 Sandy said the plant is now building Toyota.....
Hi Alex I enjoy your videos especially this one however I can’t speak for Andy but I am a blind subscriber and certainly missed in the on-screen detail as I usually do keep up the good work though cheers
Let's face it, at some point, the charging of EVs has to be standardized. Having different EV charging networks is like having different sized gas hoses for different cars. This is why we have the SAE - "Society of Automotive Engineers, (is) a U.S.-based, globally active professional association and standards developing organization for engineering professionals in various industries."
June 2010: At some point the charging of mobile phones needs to be standardized. June 2015: At some point the charging of mobile phones needs to be standardized. June 2020: At some point....
I was born into a "VW family". Mum had two, my sister owned one, Dad owned one and two Aldi's, my Uncle had one for years as did my Aunty. In my formative years of driving I also owned drove a beetle, two Kombi's and a Passat. I think it's fair to say that I was a one eyed rusted on VW fanatic. VW's unconscionable behavior with regards to emissions cheating, their involvement in gassing monkeys, their terrible customer service and cost of servicing and reliability issues have insured that I will never buy a VW product again. I purchased a new vehicle last year. A Mazda.
I don't really have issue with VW diesel.. They made the small TDI 45+mpg more efficient.. How's sipping and getting more than 50+mpg on the highway polluting? 2010+ TDI have particulate filters in them that catch most if not all the small particles that make it bad for us to breath in. It came down to gasoline car releases more CO2 and diesel releases more Nox. It was dumb for VW to play with the system and cut corners, but TDI are efficient engines.
@@mysteri0861 diesel particulate filter and EGR systems eventually are detrimental to efficiency and pollution as when DPF regeneration is needed all those "Filtered Diesel particles are released into the atmosphere over a few week period, and in terms of efficiency they eventually block up the exhaust and restrict flow, Exhaust Gas Recirculation is not much better as it may reduce Nox emissions, but eventually restricts intake air flow and narrows intake manifold and or blocks up the cylinders or valves causing secondary ignition and if you know anything about Diesels bad airflow is a big no no being that they are high compression lean fuelling engines (generally) when compared to Petrol cars.
Efficiency, price, availability, transmission ... storage, weight ... etc etc. Batteries are now good enough for wheeled transport, and for sea transport. I am not telling you anything you don't already know! Hydrogen will be useful to store surplus electricity produced by renewables - that electricity will be near free - and make hydrogen useful in spite of its inefficiency - for planes and rockets. We basically already have everything we need to enjoy life on this planet without producing surplus CO2. We just need to get on with it as quickly as possible ... we need more carrots and sticks ... a huge amount money (which equals human work) needs to be thrown at this for the next 25 years ... what a joy it will be when we see the results, and can start rewilding - giving nature back 90% of what we have taken.
That's the question, right? There is no magic bullet right out of the gun. If this were promising, I would have expected an automaker wold have snatched it up.
MBAs = More Bloody Academics! Sandy and Elon are living proof of practical engineering skills and applications. Toyota should review this video and pay Sandy a huge bonus.
Plasma Kinetics is claiming 2-4X the energy density compared with compressed H2 gas. And it is non-explosive. I don't know if H2 storage is such a game-changer as Munro seems to think it is. Cost of the technology is a big factor too. If a container ship is to run on H2 instead of diesel, it would be nice if it was non-explosive.
I agree, 2-4X still sounds like you need to bring a lot of discs and fuel up often. Yet I cannot believe sandy would overlook this so easily. So there may (must?) be more to it. I’ve heard him raving about this technology twice now.
It don't really matter. The Australian company has a power wall based on loading metal with H. The real scary part? This technology can scale BIG time. I just have to make blocks of metal to store hydrogen. You? you have to make batteries. Which technology you think will scale? Pumping out boxes with blocks of nickel, and you making batteries? That metal gas loading technology will blow out batteries by a county mile (both in terms of cost and power destiny). The only downside is efficiently - you lose energy with fuel cells (25-40%). However, Japan can't make electricity with nuclear anymore (that fucishumia disaster). So, they are going to import liquid natural gas - and convert that into hydrogen. In effect, this strategy allows Japan to trade oil imports for liquid natural gas imports(of which the USA can and will supply them - they have buckets of natural gas to export right now). Japan's bet and play thus can't be a electric one, since they can't produce electricity - unless they go back full on to nuclear. So, what road Japan is taking right now makes sense. However, that gas loading technology (its been around since 1900) is well known, but some innovation in how you "release" the gas such as using a laser is new. The simple issue however is cost - the gas loading systems are VERY able to be scaled up - and with scale ups, their costs drops WAY WAY WAY WAY below that of battery technologies. Since Japan does NOT plan to crack (split) water with electrolysis to make their hydrogen. As a result, then a major issue of efficiency is not in their process and not a problem. Japan's hydrogen will come from natural gas imports. I don't consider this road and poker hand play a threat to Tesla right now, but it is a good bet by Japan, and a very good road to take.
@@alejandrodejesusrodriguezq4880 Well, it not that they don’t produce energy. It is the issue of LIMITED choices Japan is huge and major industrial power. So of course they will continue to use and consume VAST amounts of energy. They not going to STOP using energy and thus shut down their industrial sector. The problem is the Fukushima nuclear power plant disaster has limited their options. In other words, they can’t use nuclear power as a major source of power anymore since the people and their political will does not allow this option anymore. France has gone with the nuclear power option - they are the world’s LARGEST user of nuclear power (per capital) of ANY nation. So France has lots of extra electricity - they even often use electric to heat their homes!!! And they have LOTS of extra electricity for electric cars. (And they don’t important coal, or natural gas for this abundance of electric - it all comes from nuclear power). France gets and consumes over 80% of their power from nuclear power. As noted, Japan was heading in that same direction (going with, and choosing nuclear power). However, the nuclear power option is not much of a choice for Japan now. They not going to close their industry down either!!! So, they have to make electricity with coal, natural gas, and some solar. But that does not then give them excess power for electric cars. So they will use imported natural gas (converted to hydrogen) for their fuel cell hydrogen powered cars. (Fuel cell cars run on hydrogen - not electric like battery powered cars). So Japan’s options limited, the fact that they are going ahead with hydrogen powered cars quite much agrees, and confirms EXACTLY what I stated above!!! (To get their H for cars, they will use imported natural gas which can be relative EASY refined into hydrogen). As Japan moves away from nuclear power, then their options for excess electric power become VERY limited. So this is why they are NOT going with electric powered cars, but are going with H powered cars. It makes perfect sense, and much of this is due to Japan not having the nuclear power option moving forward.
@@Albertkallal you xposition is brilliant and very informative but l think they can use it industrial power to produce energy using natural gas o Green energy , solar o wind ther are a lot of options if you got the power its Only my opinion and l respet all you say but the big economy dont has Energy shortage but may be you are right it,s only my p.o.v.
@@alejandrodejesusrodriguezq4880 they are ok. It just that with the loss of nuclear power plants, they have to find other sources - and they will - they are creative people and one of the most successful industrial nations.
That Hydrogen disc format is an interesting idea... I'll leave that comment there. Toyota is keeping its short-term future afloat with its Hybrids, but long-term, it is a goner. Go BEV Toyota or diversify elsewhere, because otherwise you are going to get a lot smaller, quite quickly.
3 года назад+1
future are solid state batteries and they're big on it
Theyre teaming up with mazda and they both got amazing ice technology... i hope they keep at it. Toyota makes the best damn cars on the road today in terms of reliability.
There is an elegant simplicity about BEV both in terms of the vehicle technology and refuelling logistics. That combination is very hard to beat. The only issue is range and that problem seems to being overcome. Against this H2 just seems unreasonably complex.
I would never give electric over hydrogen. Electricity can be captured from solar panels at home. No conversion needed! Also you can generate electricity anywhere in any isolated forgotten place! That's a luxury you don't get with anything except water or oxygen. Hydrogen can used for planes or rockets. Toyota doesn't listen the voice of the customers. I asked the dealership since 2 years about an electric model. Their answer was that Toyota knows better that Europe is not prepared for electric cars. That's arrogance, if the customer is requesting a product or feature you don't answer that you know better! And this was not just me, but they had constant requests. Arrogance is always paid!
i was going to say the same thing. you will always be dependent on some company to get hydrogen. you can produce your own electricity right at home with solar. thats what i am doing right now to charge my bolt. love it.
@@noe616 yes you are right, you can make hydrogen, but solar power can go right into your electric car. you need very expensive equipment to harvest, compress and store hydrogen and you will loose a good percentage of that energy. not to mention it can be extremely dangerous. for storing my excess solar production i looked into making hydrogen and its just not feasible.
Sandy the CEOhhhh boy that humour moment was,, oops! The hydrogen disc idea was fascinating, once more he brings out some news that is unexpected and has so much potential.
Given that batteries are dirty to produce and to dispose of, I've never understood the overall hype of e-vehicles. Hydrogen fuel cells, on the other hand, appear to represent a clean fuel source.
The current industrial scale production of hydrogen relies heavily on fossil fuels. In addition, I learned a couple years ago that hydrogen fuel cells are less than half as energy efficient as lithium-based batteries..
@@coquitlamfalcons3976 At the same time, production and disposal of batteries is not eco-friendly. Also, power companies utilize fossil fuels for the production of electricity. Wind and solar are unstable sources of energy, therefore cannot be relied upon for sole sources.
Great video! I would love to work with Mr. Munro. The thought of a new Hydrogen generator is very viable and would be well received. Especially not being attached to fixed fuel stations.
Toyota can go pound sand. I can't wait to get rid of my wife's Highlander when/if the EV tax break kicks in again for Tesla. Model Y soon in the garage.
Toyota owns a hunk of Subaru, Subaru just announced a new all electric suv a couple months back coming out 2023, they’re probably planning on buying some tech from Subaru at a discount or for a trade.
Correct, right now the fossil fuel barons are lobbying for their 'dirty hydrogen production. In Canada that bad result is complete, Alberta's tarsands are building the infrastructure now. We are all doomed.
With regard to the Toyota Prius, the reason that the Prius is not as readily available is because due to other hybrids in Toyota’s lineup there has been less demand for the Prius. The Corolla hybrid has taken a lot of sales from the Prius. The Camry hybrid, the Toyota Avalon hybrid, also the larger vehicles like the Highlander hybrid and the Sienna which is a hybrid only now, and the Venza which is also hybrid only, let alone all the Lexus vehicles that are hybrid. Toyota hasn’t backed off of hybrids, they have expanded their portfolio quite substantially and for example now produce Hybrid minivan with all wheel drive that can get over 35 miles per gallon. For an eight passenger vehicle that is impressive.
Hydrogen’s problem is that it is expensive and is not competitive with batteries. The biggest problem for Toyota is that the moment they truly shift to EV people would want only EV and they don’t have the battery production capacity to support shifting even 10% of their production to EV. I won’t be surprised if by 2030 Toyota’s unit count would decrease by 30-50%. The Chinese, VW and Tesla would eat their market share.
Yeah, they have an entire EV platform called e-TNGA and are developing solid state batteries. Now, I don't think they will beat Tesla, but seeing an EV channel giving them zero credit for working on that technology seems weird.
Hydrogen is still too expensive and inefficient compared to lithium-ion-batterys... it's the champagne of renewable energy sources. Great Video... sandy rocks
Interesting....do you have a url or something that drills down and shows how the hydrogen road map cannot work. I say this because it seemed Sandy was talking like he had gone into the details and really felt it would work.
Let's write off the most abundant element in the universe as a fuel source for a metal there is not enough of the replace the current ICE fleet in use. Great plan, musk would be proud. Li-Ion doesn't hold a candle to energy density of gas. Hydrogen doesn't make it there either but at least it's everywhere.
@@CharAznableLoNZ They are not fuel sources. Its an energy storage solution. Wityh current techcnology Hydrogen is very inefficent compared to Li batteries. Lithium is recycleable. I would love to know a cost per kwh for this hydride tech.
There has been a lot of development of how to produce hydrogen from water very cheaply. It still needs to be commercialized, but there's a path to it being competitive.
@@CharAznableLoNZ FuHydrogen is stupid as hell. Its has less than 25% the energy density of gas. It is nearly impossible to make a container to store it, without it leaking, it takes natural gas burning, to get cheap hydrogen, otherwise it cost WAY more than gas. You still require an engine with hydrogen, if you want to not have a fuel cell and electric motor, AND gas engine in one system. Hydrogen cars are a stupid concept, especially compared to electric cars. Range, cost, reliability, enginerring complexities, technology. Everything is against hydrogen, and the potential of hydrogen in its best case scenario, is still much more expensive and environmentally bad, than electric cars.
Have always loved\appreciated your back n forth with sandy m! First saw him on autoline and have watched/ enjoyed his move into social media and your channel. Keep up the great work!
To be fair to Sandy, I think he was mostly grasping at straws and throwing out anything he can think of. His first reaction for what to do as Toyota CEO was to commit seppuku! 😀 Which says a lot about what he thinks of their chances or how viable their options are.
@@EforElectric Don't get me wrong. I like your channel. I'm just saying it because you appear to be always trying to find things that would underscore Tesla is not so good, maybe because you get paid by VW. But that's OK. Thanks for your great work.
Hi Alex, HOW ARE YOU?? GREAT SHOW WITH SANDY!! ( although he tripped on that " Toyota for Tesla thing" again when he said NUMMI was now building Toyota's when he ment TESLAS!!! ) I have never liked the idea of hydrogen fuel cell cars because they add so much complexity by bringing a whole electric power plant into a car just make electricity to make it run like a battery electric car, the big hydrogen high pressure storage tanks, the cost of building the expensive infrastructure for refuelling, the waste of electricity to produce hydrogen, and that there's an "H" in hydrogen, and an "H" in Hindenburg, as in "BOOM" blows up!!! But this new safe technology that uses a "sort- ta" Compact Disc player to make hydrogen ??? WOW!!! SANDY'S RIGHT!!! THIS COULD BE AN ENORMOUS BREAKTHROUGH AND TOTAL GAME CHANGER!!!! ALEX, YOU GOTTA FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THIS FOR US, PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! THANKS ALEX, GREAT PHOTO OF YOU AND SANDY, CHAS ORVIS, PLAINVILLE, CT.
Toyota is releasing EVs and they are also involved in a Panasonic JV. Hydrogen vehicles are a great solution to Japan where electric grid tends to go down due to earthquakes and reduce their dependency on foreign oil.
How hard is it for Toyota or any major car manufacturers to make an electric car? Electric engine + batteries. Done. They're already have been testing electronic prototypes and other alternatives for years. I guess Toyota sees that EV market isn't prime yet, considering the charging infrastructure and battery recharging time.. It's at least 5 years away.
I think Toyota is just looking at Tesla as not even competition because Toyota can out produce and out sell them every year. That may eventually change. EVs are becoming less niche and other major manufacturers are putting out at least one EV, but none of them have completely switched over. It's possible that when we see another major auto group like GM or BMW start really ramping up their EV production Toyota will jump onboard. TL;DR, it's neither for the Toyota CEO. It's strictly a numbers game. They have no reason to change anything at the moment.
The reason Sandy's buddy couldn't get the Prius they wanted is because Toyota has made everything they make (well, almost) hybrid. The Prius is obsolete. Toyota should focus on longer range PHEVs in the short term (like the complete hit they have with the PHEV RAV4). 50-75 miles of electric only range. Charge at home. Drive 95% of your time on electricity before the gasoline engine starts charging your batteries. Don't worry about the charging network - use gasoline for those 5% of miles. Keep raising the number of miles you can drive as batteries get more capable.
From Plasma Kinetcs website: "Storage is 30% lighter, 7% smaller, and 17% less expensive than Lithium-ion battery per kWh". So think about this, a Tesla battery pack weights about 500kg (depending on model of course but this is a rough estimate), so for the same range (let's say 300 miles) a unit that is 30% lighter would still weigh 350kg! For 30 miles "get me home capacity", that's still 35kg - do fancy lugging that in your walmart trolley to the checkout? Drivers of these vehicles should be instantly recognisable, as they will all look like Hapthor Bjornsson!
Clean capture of hydrogen from waste gases is huge! The laser release for cars may or may not be necessary, but Plasma Kinetics could lower the cost of hydrogen greatly. Fascinating science!
I really liked Sandy's approach of co-operation rather than wasting effort competing. So much more could be done for humanity with sharing of knowledge and skills across the world.
Alex man, wow. Sandy gave some amazing advice. I hope Toyota watches this video and better yet, I hope they take it seriously. I’d charge for the amount of input Sandy just provided as potential paths forward for Toyota
Scotty Kilmer, the most famous RUclips mechanic, says stay away from Toyota Hybrid models. Gas versions can get 300-500K, but on Hybrid models at about 150K miles the hybrid system begins to fail and costs multiple thousands to fix. So that's why I would steer clear of a Toyota Hybrid.
Sandy is a visionary but my instinct says all Hydrogen technology is a dead end for cars. Why? Electric motors are so simple, batteries are getting better every year and cheaper. Plus if you have enough solar panels you can literally charge your car at home and for free.
MBA - Master's of Business Administration. It's not necessarily a bad thing - until someone with no OTHER qualifications takes over a company in an industry that they know nothing about. Unfortunately that happens rather frequently.
Basically if you're Toyota as this point you need to beg Tesla to license battery and FSD technology and come up with something you can offer as a return. Maybe building them a plant in Japan for free or something. Not sure there's anything Toyota can offer to Tesla at this point.
What about Toyota's joint venture with BYD? They make their own batteries for their EVs. They have their own 800 volt EV platform. Don't you think they will buy their batteries and tech?
Toyota doesn't need help and once it gets serious about EV'S, other OEMS are going to need serious help. Toyota is slow to change but once it dedicates itself to a cause, there's no stopping them afterwards. Nobody makes cars that are built so well and lasts over the long term than Toyota. Nobody. Their upcoming BRZ is only the first in a long list of EVs that are going to shake up the market once again like it did with the Priua in the 1990's.
Sandy obviously doesn’t know the current development and history between the two Japanese companies.If you’re curious look up, Primearth EV Energy and Panasonic’s new venture with Toyota; Prime Planet Energy & Solutions (PPES).
Hydrogen disc is not the wave of the future. It is an extra step to an already expensive process. Sure you could use renewable energy to produce the hydrogen but it wastes way more energy than just directly charging batteries. How much more electricity, raw materials and time will it waste converting it to a disc? And you have to go pick these up somewhere? Last time I checked electricity is delivered to my house. What Toyota needs to do go with the 4680 batteries for now and continue advancing the battery technology for charge speed and longevity. And at least partner with Tesla on the supercharger network. He always said he'd open it up to other companies if they helped build the network. It's amazing none of the big car companies took him up on it. Oh, that's right they were too busy with either hydrogen pipedreams or too complacent with the status quo. The worst thing about the whole thing is I have is having to root for the fossil car companies just because I know we need to move to a sustainable future there is no way Tesla can grow fast enough to do it all.
Sandy is the representation of the classic "work hard and be honest despite not being incentivized to do so" I'm glad there are still people like him in the world.
The honesty is key. So many wanna make that buck on dodgy practices
this is what people are missing, honest and hard working people are a commodity, they just need to find the right employer
@@klaaturivera3746 He gives free advice all the time. Also, the word is 'GUESS'.
Almost everything he said is wrong.
1. Mercedes reached level 3 autonomy a year ago. BMW is certified to do level2+ at 130kph. Telsa is still stuck at level 2. Even VW is ahead.
2. There's no proof that the vision-only architecture as it is implemented by Tesla(with the extensive use of maps) will ever be able to reach the level of autonomy promised by Tesla nearly 10 years ago.
3. Plasma kinetics is basically a scam. The net energy density makes it totally impractical.
For me this was one of the best shows of yours , .Sandy is a great logical thinker. Together you really make a fantastic pair. Thankyou to the both of you , we'll done.
Sandy is great, but he is on a channel sponsored by VW ID4. No wonder the host always looks for negatives on other companies, especially Tesla.
This show is a joke. Sandy is not an expert on fuel cells or hydrogen technology. Sure he is a smart engineer when it comes to automotive structural matters. He doesn’t know anything about this chemistry stuff. Let’s see him map out the energy efficiency trail on this one. No way can you do it. I can’t do it either I’m just an electrical engineer, I don’t know this chemistry.
I appreciate Sandy a bit more with each video I see. He really displayed his shrewd, keen and deep knowledge of business and technology here. Spiced with some historcal analogies, he really dazzled me!
The problem I have with him is he advocates for making things less repairable. He is a big fan of plastic clips that can break.
V
Big thank you to both of you! Super interesting and entertaining. Sadly I live in Australia where there's nearly a 38 percent tax on on road cost of a Tesla due to the Morrison Government's hated of EVs, yet while we're one of the sunniest countries in the world and we import 95 percent of our petrol (gasoline) and diesel... Morrison isn't clever enough at science to fold a paper...
Same here in South Africa. But that Plasma kinetics can be a cheaper alternative source of electricity generation may be even cheaper than solar
When I was in grade school in the 1980s we had magazines about solar power and EV research in Australia. There was even an article about a University there that had figured out how to pump charged 🔋 battery fluid in to an EV, capturing the spent liquid and recharging with solar...
Over 30 years later I've yet to see any of this tech make it to public use. Very sad.
Solar and wind are slowly going up in Arizona and Texas (the two places I've lived) but not nearly as fast as I'd like. Nuclear is too slow in adoption as well 😔
Wow 38% tax on an electric vehicle AND they'll cave your skull in for being outside when you're not supposed to be!
How soon can I immigrate?
Morrison is lost in a time warp he can't see the future like the rest of politicians get it done
! Australia is a joke country!
I love Sandy! He pulls no punches and gives you the straight thought. Great job!
I'm an engineer (over 40 years) but also have an MBA. However, I do understand what Sandy meant.
I didn’t either, he obviously doesn’t know the current development and history between the two Japanese companies. If you’re curious look up, Primearth EV Energy and Panasonic’s new venture with Toyota; Prime Planet Energy & Solutions (PPES).
If Sandy could share some math on the solid state discs that would be handy. No information on hydrogen yield per gram of material, and energy in (laser) vs energy out (electric energy out of fuel cell). Until that is shared, it is ‘vaporware’.
Technically, it would still be 'vaporware' even with production. It would then be 'Hydrogen Vapor'-ware. 🤣
You forgot to mention the compressor energy consumption, which would probably consume as much, if not more, energy than the laser.
Well, even without the math we know one thing: hydrogen (for light vehicles) is inefficient as eff (cost lots of energy to make the stuff) and that would - under any circumstances - get worse when you add another manufacturing step (hydrogen to solid hydrogen). So... I think we can jump to the conclusion that this is indeed vaporware.
@@flipadavis I mentioned the compressor and laser because they would both need to be in the vehicle to extract the hydrogen and make it usable to the fuel cell, which in turn powers the vehicle. As such, they would both have a direct impact on the point-of-use efficiency.
@@thomasbonse I was just adding the upstream costs of making the hydrogen into a solid disk form. This is an equivalent energy cost to needing to compress the hydrogen to 10,000 psi in hydrogen tanks. They both take some amount of energy whether they happen on board or off board.
@@flipadavis I'm not disagreeing with you about the inefficiencies, just clarifying why I mentioned certain things and not others. The hydrogen approach, in general, seems to just be another way to extend the fossil fuel industry's useful life.
When I hear “someone has just invented ___”, I assume that it is between 10 years to never from mass production & market reality; but great if they can solve all the issues and get it to real production, taking into account the total environmental costs of the fuel.
He also didn't mention the energy density of the disks. I can't imagine that they're actually so high that you just pop in a small disk every once in a while. I picture it more like you're going to need hundreds of them a week. Hard to say without numbers though.
You sound scared!
He said they've been keeping this under wraps for ten years.
@@christopherpedersen1820 Their site says their energy storage is 7% smaller than batteries per kWh. That means it would need a NIO-style power pack swap station. It's not going to power a car with a swappable disc thing the size of a small purse.
@@bubbafatas2588 Who sounds scared of what? This is a guy making observations that sounds like he is intrigued. Do you even speak english?
I realize the dangers associated with hydrogen but I heard Japan has been utilizing it for years so always shocked that I hear about this yet no one after years ever discussed it but this makes sense to me and glad someone like Sandy is behind a different approach, thank you sir. Appreciate a well seasoned professional. I still feel there are options here maybe still needing to be looked at. A small idea about not leaving gas cars in a trash dump, be nice to see a new industry form that can gut the mechanics to replace it into future technology. Just in case anyone is looking for a new company idea. Custom refurb.
Alex, You and Sandy are becoming quite the pair and famous at that... It's nice to see your relationship grow. . Also, that you can disagree and continue to grow... it's great to see ..
You two work well together you should have a regular show weekly or even daily.
It would be interesting to find out how much the lifecycle costs of these hydrogen 'disks' are....to create, to 'recharge', how much range from the disks, etc...
On their website they say "Storage is 30% lighter, 7% smaller, and 17% less expensive than Lithium-ion battery " if you want to change 400kg worth of discs at each charge, be my guest 😂
@@europeanweb Agreed....if this was such a great solution, then - I figured it would be better well known. Maybe this might work out for some niche application, but automotive? I would envision it looking like the older battery swap model, which has struggled in its own right.
Obviously the disc would be too expensive.... Sandy Munro can sometimes be an idiot... But I like him a lot of the time
The questions that must be answered first are: 1) how much energy can you extract from one of those disks in terms of volume and weight? 2) how much does it cost?
it was off the cuff he made a mistake the cost of this type of Technology would be prohibitive and ridiculous .... Sandy Indulgence in fantasy worlds.... this is RUclips and he got thumbs up
I will venture a bet that the answer is not enough.
1) i don't care.
2) i don't care
@@tommersch4296 thermodynamics will dictate if you caring is relevant or not.
tnx 4 showing your LOVE!
7:30 "analyzing a Y or a 3 or an S, whatever they're trying to compete with ..."
Toyota don't really compete with any of those vehicles. The largest bulk of Toyota's sales are in the $20k-30k segment and they're not going to figure out how to make a $20k EV by analyzing a $50k one. The Mirai may be at a Tesla price point but the Prius is not.
Toyota already know how to manufacture cars, I'm sure they know perfectly well how to manufacture EVs, but nobody knows how to manufacture a $20k EV with range and reliability and still make a profit.
Ask tata
RAV 4 is 25% of Toyota US sales, Model Y competes with it. Agreed that Tesla is not there yet with a car to compete with Camry due to price point. But if they pass that EV tax credit of $10K, then the Model 3 will be competitive with Camry's price wise.
Agreed, need to acknowledge their business model. Toyota builds highly reliable, reasonable priced cars, never the highest performance or efficiency, and they sell a lot of cars. Even if they wanted to compete with tesla, it would need to be under the Lexus brand.
Toyota had it's chance - they were in partnership with Tesla in Tesla's early years - instead of keep the partnership and utilize Tesla technologies, Toyota decided to terminate the partnership. Obviously Toyota management did not think Tesla could be the future of automobile.
Toyota does not know how to “perfectly well“ make an electric car. It is a new industry, and in so many ways it is not like making a conventional internal combustion engine car. Toyota is good, good at what they do, but that does not automatically translate into being good at something new. Stop worshiping those guys. They are blundering badly At the moment with very bad leader ship. Hopefully there will be a purge. It’s not too late to say Toyota, but I could care less if they are stupid.
Making a toy electric car is much more easier and simpler than making a toy ICE car scale up the size and it's still more or less the same.
Thats the same statement as making a horse pulling a carriage easier then making a benz. I remember hydrogen generator was a sorcery that even then here on youtube pre 2010, anybody trying to pull a discussion about this , almost automatically getting bullied by all the "smart assess ". And then, today happens. And how i wish i can see these smart self claimed assholes eat their own shit.
And what do you know! lo and behold, they're still here hanging on on another 'smart' argument that ICE / hybrid engine with hydrogen fuel isnt gonna work.
And here i though they've died choked by the shit they had to cew...
@@wizzyno1566 Tesla will deliver at least 1 million EVs this year, 3x that from all other EV manufacturers will be delivered worldwide. That’s “significant” but not as significant as the rate of growth of those deliveries. 100% (doubling) every year and accelerating. Care to do the exponential math in that? Here’s some help, within 5-7 years EVs will become the majority. You obviously don’t live in California, Every other car is a Tesla. It’s a sea of Tesla’s and they are headed everywhere. You might want to rethink your analysis.
Amazing insight by Sandy. I learn something new with each and every interview with Sandy across various channels
I still prefer the idea of plugging in my car. Better yet, if I've got a Power Wall, I'll use nothing but sunlight to power my car. You'll have to beat that to impress me.
I have been hearing about new things coming in ten years. Very very few came true. Physics is a great limiter.
@10:55 "Could it be, that they were infected by MBA? I think they were." LMAO, savage.
Pardon my lack of anachronism understanding, but what is an MBA / MVA ??
@@darylclifford Master of Business Administration.
You do a great job of listening. Even with a competent person giving opposing views! Well done, I am glad you guys can have a few beers together and still spar.
I love what you guys have done in in the electric car industry, keep on the good works.
Panasonic just sold their Tesla stake for $3.6 billion. Along with Panasonic’s outgoing CEO claim that Panasonic must cut Tesla reliance as battery tie-up evolves.
Looks to be that Panasonic is looking to cut ties with Tesla soon and focus their joint venture named Prime Planet Energy & Solutions (PPES) to build Solid State Batteries.
Fun fact, the company originally called Panasonic EV Energy Co. until 2 June 2010, was founded in 1996 as a joint venture between Toyota and Panasonic, with Panasonic holding 60% of the capital.
Even with a new way of storing hydrogen, the question of efficiency remains (and by introducing new processes efficiency presumably isn't going to get better).
There's a video by engineering explained that analyzes efficiency...and you are right about adding a process and losing efficiency.
Take it one step at a time
And to add that, hydrogen still has many potential uses, e.g. maybe airplanes due to weight, so always nice to see advancements. We really need to start living a more sustainable life
@@omaralkayal7598 even if that step is obviously in the wrong direction?
@Ben Daulton The "heavy industry" is already using electric vehicles (and has done so for years).
This was a very interesting scenario. I love this collaboration!
Wow, a high quality interview. Refreshing.
I think Sandy's timing is off. In my opinion Toyota has done a great job in its plan for making the transition from ICE to EV with APV. At this point how many EV's Tesla can build is a secondary issue. The critical issue is how much infrastructure is in place to support those vehicles including fast charging and service support. There is growing pushback regarding the lack of 3rd party options for servicing Tesla vehicles. You've probably heard about the $700 fix for a break in a cooling system that Tesla wanted to charge the owner $17K to replace the whole battery pack. That's probably one of the most extreme examples but it shouldn't happen. Hybrids are a way to fill the gap between ICE and EV while the infrastructure issues are being worked out. Toyota is one of the leaders in ICE and APV while fine tuning what they have planned for EV. There is no rush. That EV infrastructure, anything remote close to the ubiquitous fueling and servicing of ICE vehicles, is a full decade away in my opinion. I've been involved in the electronics industry for 40 years (electronic component manufacturing) and have been working with solar energy companies for over 20 years. The pace of change on something of this magnitude is not years but decades. Government in concert with the automotive industry (Ford, GM, Tesla, Toyota and other manufacturers) are all going to be involved in making decisions on how that infrastructure is going to be built. It's not going to happen based on Elon's timetable. I think Sandy's 8 years is woefully optimistic in claiming you won't be able to give ICE vehicles away.
I overall agree with you. It's impossible to say when ICE vehicles won't have significant sales anymore. I agree there's no rush. But Toyota and Honda would be better off at least putting out there in the EV space to show they're in the game. But the talk on a lot of EV channels of Toyota going bankrupt because of their current EV status is something I find to be silly.
How much will a hydrogen disc cost when in full production, and how many miles will it produce in a car like Toyota? looks like it would take many discs to go very far. how much would they weigh and cost? Does Sandy know?
Plasma kinetics has been around for more than 10 years, what are the technical hurdles holding them up from production?
money
The entire "hydrogen" issue, is in itself a huge technical hurdle!
With me, the choice for the future EV purchase is pretty simple, give me at least 10 inches of ground clearance( so that we country folks could enjoy the EV revolution as well), 500 miles range and cargo space of rav4 and I will buy the vehicle without thinking much.
10:56 “I think they were infected by an MBA”🤣
I think they were... looool
What MBA situation is he talking about
I watched a talk between Mr. Toyoda to the Japanese government from Japan. I can understand the Japanese language. He didn't ask for help, money, technology, management, etc. He asked one thing: the government must be aware that Japan doesn't produce enough electric energy to expand BEV. If 10% of cars in public become BEV, Japan needs an additional two nuclear power plants or ten more thermal power plants. Toyota isn't behind EV technology; many countries are not producing enough electricity for BEV. Toyota will continually develop BEV, Plug-In Hybrid, Hybrid, and Fuel Cell. So, they can provide meet demands country by country. Mr. Toyoda is frustrated and upset with the government that they are excited and pushing to buy to consumer EBV that Japan needs more energy resources first. Politicians are not understood technology and infrastructure. They want to look good to the public-the new prime minister, Mr. Kishida order, to build more safe nuclear power plants recently. I think, at last, politicians listened to Mr. Toyoda. Japan would build 1,000 Hydrogen stations by 2030, the news said. With that said, Hydrogen Disc is incredible.
Interesting video!!!
You should try to make videos on Investment...
stocks are good..
@Hannah Noah we all need to stop been stereotype ,,we all are aware of the trending sequential comments going on in the comments section...
I started trade with him , last month and gradually my financial status is been elevated,,,
How real is he if I may ask...
@@kimjennifer652 you can make you research yourself...
he has been managing my trade for months and i keep making profits every week, made $ 9,340 last week, thanks Mr Steve
This reminded of Blackberry sticking to their way of mechanical keyboard until they were blindsided by Apple in 2009 with a virtual one. Look at what happened? Thanks Alex and Sandy for this wonderful discussion.
Great interview Alex and loved how Sandy would save Toyota. You have to remember how Toyota got into this mess by ignoring the obvious that electric is the future. Now with some countries and some USA states saying that most passenger ice cars will not be sold after 2030 down from 2035. That gives automakers 5 or 6 years to execute this plan since it takes them 2 to 3 years to develop most vehicles. Toyota will now have to redesign and electrify most models including Lexus, in a short period of time. I think I would just hybrid most of their cars to buy some time and electrify a few key models to save face.
Any thought on ammonia based hydrogen for fuel cells?
NH4… nitrogen is inert. Just be careful about production of nitrogen oxides. Saudi Arabia is now generating ammonia to ship as green hydrogen… Obviously, best used for agricultural use, but how easily is ammonia reformed for vehicle Fuel cell use work Catalyst longevity requiring high purity?
I love how electric motors are so torquey. Full torque at 0 rpm, YEAH!!!
Sandy is great in thinking.I appreciate him warmly.
One of my chem teachers worked for Ballard before teaching, we were learning about them trying to solve the solid state hydrogen in chem class in 2005 so before that.
Toyota partnered w/ Tesla before , with the RAV4-EV... bummer it broke up, and no more were made.
Toyota might have kept this now pure-EV (and likely Tesla) customer...
Just think, the 1998 - 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV was powered by Toyota-PANASONIC NIMH batteries. Toyota has been avoiding EVs for decades.
Reason Toyota split with Tesla was because Tesla wouldn't listen to demands in how to make the cars more safe. The undercastings of the batterypacks was too thin. Tesla refused, and Toyota said "good bye". Later some Tesla fires happened, and Tesla ended up doing what Toyota told them to do in the first place, by making the pack more safe.
@@oophus1 "Reason Toyota split with Tesla was because Tesla wouldn't listen to demands in how to make the cars more safe. "
The reason Toyota sold their shares of Tesla had nothing to do with how Tesla built the Model S, or its battery pack.
@@phillipzx3754 I was talking about the RAV4 EV project, where Tesla provided battery packs to Toyota.
The packs were not safe enough, and Tesla ignored Toyotas request to make them safer. Later Tesla experienced several fires because of pucture damage from under the vehicle and Tesla ended up doing what Toyota told them to do in the first place. Just a bit too late for Toyota.
The storage material is Palladium
Oh my gosh, I think there was a documentary about the NUMMI plant called "American Factory". It's well done. The joint venture between GM and Toyota ran from 1984-2010. It was a good effort, but the plant eventually closed. Then Tesla bought it and today it produces Teslas.
The plant in question was the lowest quality plant in the GM system (they made Camaros). It became the highest quality plant in North America. The plant eventually "closed" because there was a 25-year consent agreement between GM & Toyota imposed by the US Government that required the sunset of the plant. Toyota sold it because 25 years had run out as I understand.
Dynamic Kenetics as a hydrogen storage solution has a lot of potential. Then again, storing hydrogen in a metal lattice has been under development since the early 90's. They also seem to be avoiding any mention of cost like the plague so I would need to see if it's an affordable method of handling hydrogen.
I thought the old Nummi plant in Fremont built Toyota is now building Tesla. At time stamp of this video 21:25 Sandy said the plant is now building Toyota.....
You should really watch the video. I literally put the correction on the screen. I mean it's like right there with added animation. You can't miss it.
Hi Alex
I enjoy your videos especially this one however I can’t speak for Andy but I am a blind subscriber and certainly missed in the on-screen detail as I usually do keep up the good work though cheers
@@EforElectric I thought you would have as you have had normally. Not sure how I missed it this time... Sorry!
Coopetition = cooperation + competition ! Nice!!
Excellent video! Mr Monroe was right about everything.
Getting use to Sandy, Nice report
Let's face it, at some point, the charging of EVs has to be standardized. Having different EV charging networks is like having different sized gas hoses for different cars. This is why we have the SAE - "Society of Automotive Engineers, (is) a U.S.-based, globally active professional association and standards developing organization for engineering professionals in various industries."
June 2010: At some point the charging of mobile phones needs to be standardized.
June 2015: At some point the charging of mobile phones needs to be standardized.
June 2020: At some point....
VW has a lot to make up for, lying to the public and owners, polluting, etc.
They have lost my respect.
Well, they made a mistake and payed for that let's see now, maybe in the pong term they Nd people will look at it as a sour step to a better future!
@@mnldgbD nah it wasnt a mistake. Sorry try again 🤣
I was born into a "VW family". Mum had two, my sister owned one, Dad owned one and two Aldi's, my Uncle had one for years as did my Aunty.
In my formative years of driving I also owned drove a beetle, two Kombi's and a Passat. I think it's fair to say that I was a one eyed rusted on VW fanatic.
VW's unconscionable behavior with regards to emissions cheating, their involvement in gassing monkeys, their terrible customer service and cost of servicing and reliability issues have insured that I will never buy a VW product again.
I purchased a new vehicle last year. A Mazda.
I don't really have issue with VW diesel.. They made the small TDI 45+mpg more efficient.. How's sipping and getting more than 50+mpg on the highway polluting? 2010+ TDI have particulate filters in them that catch most if not all the small particles that make it bad for us to breath in. It came down to gasoline car releases more CO2 and diesel releases more Nox. It was dumb for VW to play with the system and cut corners, but TDI are efficient engines.
@@mysteri0861 diesel particulate filter and EGR systems eventually are detrimental to efficiency and pollution as when DPF regeneration is needed all those "Filtered Diesel particles are released into the atmosphere over a few week period, and in terms of efficiency they eventually block up the exhaust and restrict flow, Exhaust Gas Recirculation is not much better as it may reduce Nox emissions, but eventually restricts intake air flow and narrows intake manifold and or blocks up the cylinders or valves causing secondary ignition and if you know anything about Diesels bad airflow is a big no no being that they are high compression lean fuelling engines (generally) when compared to Petrol cars.
Send this video to Toyota asap. They need to make these moves to preserve the best car company in the world.
Efficiency, price, availability, transmission ... storage, weight ... etc etc. Batteries are now good enough for wheeled transport, and for sea transport. I am not telling you anything you don't already know! Hydrogen will be useful to store surplus electricity produced by renewables - that electricity will be near free - and make hydrogen useful in spite of its inefficiency - for planes and rockets. We basically already have everything we need to enjoy life on this planet without producing surplus CO2. We just need to get on with it as quickly as possible ... we need more carrots and sticks ... a huge amount money (which equals human work) needs to be thrown at this for the next 25 years ... what a joy it will be when we see the results, and can start rewilding - giving nature back 90% of what we have taken.
Clearly the discs are not going to be cost effective, at least not for a long time. We don't even know the yields or costs.
That's the question, right? There is no magic bullet right out of the gun. If this were promising, I would have expected an automaker wold have snatched it up.
Same could be said a decade ago about li-ion batteries
MBAs = More Bloody Academics! Sandy and Elon are living proof of practical engineering skills and applications. Toyota should review this video and pay Sandy a huge bonus.
Plasma Kinetics is claiming 2-4X the energy density compared with compressed H2 gas. And it is non-explosive.
I don't know if H2 storage is such a game-changer as Munro seems to think it is.
Cost of the technology is a big factor too. If a container ship is to run on H2 instead of diesel, it would be nice if it was non-explosive.
I agree, 2-4X still sounds like you need to bring a lot of discs and fuel up often. Yet I cannot believe sandy would overlook this so easily. So there may (must?) be more to it. I’ve heard him raving about this technology twice now.
What volume of H2 comes out of these disks?
I liked that Sandy, always thinking in simple solutions.👍
So how many miles would a disc give you? this sounds really out there
It don't really matter. The Australian company has a power wall based on loading metal with H. The real scary part? This technology can scale BIG time. I just have to make blocks of metal to store hydrogen. You? you have to make batteries. Which technology you think will scale? Pumping out boxes with blocks of nickel, and you making batteries? That metal gas loading technology will blow out batteries by a county mile (both in terms of cost and power destiny). The only downside is efficiently - you lose energy with fuel cells (25-40%). However, Japan can't make electricity with nuclear anymore (that fucishumia disaster). So, they are going to import liquid natural gas - and convert that into hydrogen. In effect, this strategy allows Japan to trade oil imports for liquid natural gas imports(of which the USA can and will supply them - they have buckets of natural gas to export right now).
Japan's bet and play thus can't be a electric one, since they can't produce electricity - unless they go back full on to nuclear.
So, what road Japan is taking right now makes sense. However, that gas loading technology (its been around since 1900) is well known, but some innovation in how you "release" the gas such as using a laser is new. The simple issue however is cost - the gas loading systems are VERY able to be scaled up - and with scale ups, their costs drops WAY WAY WAY WAY below that of battery technologies. Since Japan does NOT plan to crack (split) water with electrolysis to make their hydrogen. As a result, then a major issue of efficiency is not in their process and not a problem. Japan's hydrogen will come from natural gas imports.
I don't consider this road and poker hand play a threat to Tesla right now, but it is a good bet by Japan, and a very good road to take.
@@Albertkallal how ca no japan produce energy if japan is a industrial
Power ?
@@alejandrodejesusrodriguezq4880
Well, it not that they don’t produce energy.
It is the issue of LIMITED choices
Japan is huge and major industrial power. So of course they will continue to use and consume VAST amounts of energy.
They not going to STOP using energy and thus shut down their industrial sector.
The problem is the Fukushima nuclear power plant disaster has limited their options.
In other words, they can’t use nuclear power as a major source of power anymore since the people and their political will does not allow this option anymore.
France has gone with the nuclear power option - they are the world’s LARGEST user of nuclear power (per capital) of ANY nation. So France has lots of extra electricity - they even often use electric to heat their homes!!! And they have LOTS of extra electricity for electric cars. (And they don’t important coal, or natural gas for this abundance of electric - it all comes from nuclear power).
France gets and consumes over 80% of their power from nuclear power. As noted, Japan was heading in that same direction (going with, and choosing nuclear power).
However, the nuclear power option is not much of a choice for Japan now.
They not going to close their industry down either!!!
So, they have to make electricity with coal, natural gas, and some solar.
But that does not then give them excess power for electric cars. So they will use imported natural gas (converted to hydrogen) for their fuel cell hydrogen powered cars.
(Fuel cell cars run on hydrogen - not electric like battery powered cars).
So Japan’s options limited, the fact that they are going ahead with hydrogen powered cars quite much agrees, and confirms EXACTLY what I stated above!!!
(To get their H for cars, they will use imported natural gas which can be relative EASY refined into hydrogen).
As Japan moves away from nuclear power, then their options for excess electric power become VERY limited. So this is why they are NOT going with electric powered cars, but are going with H powered cars.
It makes perfect sense, and much of this is due to Japan not having the nuclear power option moving forward.
@@Albertkallal you xposition is brilliant and very informative but l think they can use it industrial power to produce energy using natural gas o
Green energy , solar o wind ther are a lot of options if you got the power its
Only my opinion and l respet all you say but the big economy dont has
Energy shortage but may be you are right it,s only my p.o.v.
@@alejandrodejesusrodriguezq4880
they are ok. It just that with the loss of nuclear power plants, they have to find other sources - and they will - they are creative people and one of the most successful industrial nations.
Brilliant questions for Sandy! And brilliant answers FROM Sandy! Great video. I was intrigued the whole time.
That Hydrogen disc format is an interesting idea... I'll leave that comment there.
Toyota is keeping its short-term future afloat with its Hybrids, but long-term, it is a goner. Go BEV Toyota or diversify elsewhere, because otherwise you are going to get a lot smaller, quite quickly.
future are solid state batteries and they're big on it
Theyre teaming up with mazda and they both got amazing ice technology... i hope they keep at it. Toyota makes the best damn cars on the road today in terms of reliability.
There is an elegant simplicity about BEV both in terms of the vehicle technology and refuelling logistics. That combination is very hard to beat. The only issue is range and that problem seems to being overcome.
Against this H2 just seems unreasonably complex.
I would never give electric over hydrogen. Electricity can be captured from solar panels at home. No conversion needed! Also you can generate electricity anywhere in any isolated forgotten place! That's a luxury you don't get with anything except water or oxygen. Hydrogen can used for planes or rockets.
Toyota doesn't listen the voice of the customers. I asked the dealership since 2 years about an electric model. Their answer was that Toyota knows better that Europe is not prepared for electric cars. That's arrogance, if the customer is requesting a product or feature you don't answer that you know better! And this was not just me, but they had constant requests. Arrogance is always paid!
Exactly my point. Will Prowse has a sick solar setup charging his Teslas and the AC. You can't do that with Hydrogen.
i was going to say the same thing. you will always be dependent on some company to get hydrogen. you can produce your own electricity right at home with solar. thats what i am doing right now to charge my bolt. love it.
Solar panels can power hydrolysis to produce hydrogen.
@@noe616 why another conversion, isn’t this power wasted? Sounds inefficient to me :)
@@noe616 yes you are right, you can make hydrogen, but solar power can go right into your electric car. you need very expensive equipment to harvest, compress and store hydrogen and you will loose a good percentage of that energy. not to mention it can be extremely dangerous. for storing my excess solar production i looked into making hydrogen and its just not feasible.
Sandy the CEOhhhh boy that humour moment was,, oops!
The hydrogen disc idea was fascinating, once more he brings out some news that is unexpected and has so much potential.
When he learns it will cost as much (most likely more) as gasoline?
Given that batteries are dirty to produce and to dispose of, I've never understood the overall hype of e-vehicles. Hydrogen fuel cells, on the other hand, appear to represent a clean fuel source.
The current industrial scale production of hydrogen relies heavily on fossil fuels. In addition, I learned a couple years ago that hydrogen fuel cells are less than half as energy efficient as lithium-based batteries..
@@coquitlamfalcons3976 At the same time, production and disposal of batteries is not eco-friendly. Also, power companies utilize fossil fuels for the production of electricity. Wind and solar are unstable sources of energy, therefore cannot be relied upon for sole sources.
@Coquitiam, hydrogen fuel is zero-carbon-based, burned with oxygen.
Great video! I would love to work with Mr. Munro. The thought of a new Hydrogen generator is very viable and would be well received. Especially not being attached to fixed fuel stations.
Toyota can go pound sand. I can't wait to get rid of my wife's Highlander when/if the EV tax break kicks in again for Tesla. Model Y soon in the garage.
I can’t wait to get a Republican back in office so we can stop giving money to rich people to buy electric cars.
@@epoxy1710 hope you like faulty transmissions, exploding airbags and crappy laggy infotainment systems.
@@andrewmeehan6151 you realize the ev tax credit was a republican (George w Bush) policy right?
@@christianrichard5805 bush was a rino (republican in name only). Trump will drain the swamp in 2024.
@@andrewmeehan6151 LOL oh boy. We have nothing more to discuss after that looney comment
Toyota owns a hunk of Subaru, Subaru just announced a new all electric suv a couple months back coming out 2023, they’re probably planning on buying some tech from Subaru at a discount or for a trade.
They also own a part of Mazda and Yamaha
In terms of both cost, & the environment, the primary source of the hydrogen matters.
Correct, right now the fossil fuel barons are lobbying for their 'dirty hydrogen production. In Canada that bad result is complete, Alberta's tarsands are building the infrastructure now. We are all doomed.
With regard to the Toyota Prius, the reason that the Prius is not as readily available is because due to other hybrids in Toyota’s lineup there has been less demand for the Prius. The Corolla hybrid has taken a lot of sales from the Prius. The Camry hybrid, the Toyota Avalon hybrid, also the larger vehicles like the Highlander hybrid and the Sienna which is a hybrid only now, and the Venza which is also hybrid only, let alone all the Lexus vehicles that are hybrid. Toyota hasn’t backed off of hybrids, they have expanded their portfolio quite substantially and for example now produce Hybrid minivan with all wheel drive that can get over 35 miles per gallon. For an eight passenger vehicle that is impressive.
This sounds like an early alpha for Doc Brown's Mr. Fusion.
Hydrogen’s problem is that it is expensive and is not competitive with batteries. The biggest problem for Toyota is that the moment they truly shift to EV people would want only EV and they don’t have the battery production capacity to support shifting even 10% of their production to EV. I won’t be surprised if by 2030 Toyota’s unit count would decrease by 30-50%. The Chinese, VW and Tesla would eat their market share.
Toyota has batteries though, they're supposedly going to launch their ev in 2022.
Yeah, they have an entire EV platform called e-TNGA and are developing solid state batteries. Now, I don't think they will beat Tesla, but seeing an EV channel giving them zero credit for working on that technology seems weird.
@T R i don't think solid state batteries are ready yet. But i bet they will offer a great, reasonably priced car
Thanks for your time and work
Hydrogen is still too expensive and inefficient compared to lithium-ion-batterys... it's the champagne of renewable energy sources.
Great Video... sandy rocks
Interesting....do you have a url or something that drills down and shows how the hydrogen road map cannot work. I say this because it seemed Sandy was talking like he had gone into the details and really felt it would work.
Let's write off the most abundant element in the universe as a fuel source for a metal there is not enough of the replace the current ICE fleet in use. Great plan, musk would be proud. Li-Ion doesn't hold a candle to energy density of gas. Hydrogen doesn't make it there either but at least it's everywhere.
@@CharAznableLoNZ They are not fuel sources. Its an energy storage solution. Wityh current techcnology Hydrogen is very inefficent compared to Li batteries. Lithium is recycleable.
I would love to know a cost per kwh for this hydride tech.
There has been a lot of development of how to produce hydrogen from water very cheaply. It still needs to be commercialized, but there's a path to it being competitive.
@@CharAznableLoNZ FuHydrogen is stupid as hell. Its has less than 25% the energy density of gas. It is nearly impossible to make a container to store it, without it leaking, it takes natural gas burning, to get cheap hydrogen, otherwise it cost WAY more than gas. You still require an engine with hydrogen, if you want to not have a fuel cell and electric motor, AND gas engine in one system. Hydrogen cars are a stupid concept, especially compared to electric cars. Range, cost, reliability, enginerring complexities, technology. Everything is against hydrogen, and the potential of hydrogen in its best case scenario, is still much more expensive and environmentally bad, than electric cars.
Have always loved\appreciated your back n forth with sandy m! First saw him on autoline and have watched/ enjoyed his move into social media and your channel. Keep up the great work!
To be fair to Sandy, I think he was mostly grasping at straws and throwing out anything he can think of. His first reaction for what to do as Toyota CEO was to commit seppuku! 😀 Which says a lot about what he thinks of their chances or how viable their options are.
Sandy I love your new idea please help them out that is a great way to go and I will buy one of them
this channel wouldn't even exist without Tesla
Yep, I say it all the time. But thanks for pointing it out again, very observant of you
@@EforElectric Don't get me wrong. I like your channel. I'm just saying it because you appear to be always trying to find things that would underscore Tesla is not so good, maybe because you get paid by VW. But that's OK. Thanks for your great work.
Hi Alex, HOW ARE YOU?? GREAT SHOW WITH SANDY!! ( although he tripped on that " Toyota for Tesla thing" again when he said NUMMI was now building Toyota's when he ment TESLAS!!! ) I have never liked the idea of hydrogen fuel cell cars because they add so much complexity by bringing a whole electric power plant into a car just make electricity to make it run like a battery electric car, the big hydrogen high pressure storage tanks, the cost of building the expensive infrastructure for refuelling, the waste of electricity to produce hydrogen, and that there's an "H" in hydrogen, and an "H" in Hindenburg, as in "BOOM" blows up!!! But this new safe technology that uses a "sort- ta" Compact Disc player to make hydrogen ??? WOW!!! SANDY'S RIGHT!!! THIS COULD BE AN ENORMOUS BREAKTHROUGH AND TOTAL GAME CHANGER!!!! ALEX, YOU GOTTA FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THIS FOR US, PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! THANKS ALEX, GREAT PHOTO OF YOU AND SANDY, CHAS ORVIS, PLAINVILLE, CT.
If Toyota's only chance to beat Tesla is sticking with Hydrogen....they're Fk'd 😂
Toyota is releasing EVs and they are also involved in a Panasonic JV. Hydrogen vehicles are a great solution to Japan where electric grid tends to go down due to earthquakes and reduce their dependency on foreign oil.
@@wyw201so going from world's largest OEM to focusing on the Japanese auto market....sorry but that's not gonna cut it.
@@Succumbed2Rum *Specifically the Mirai is focused on the Japanese market, not every vehicle in their lineup.
This is an excellent presentation, probably the best yet👍🏻
The Toyota CEO either has something huge up his sleeve OR he's so head strong that he has to go.
How hard is it for Toyota or any major car manufacturers to make an electric car? Electric engine + batteries. Done.
They're already have been testing electronic prototypes and other alternatives for years. I guess Toyota sees that EV market isn't prime yet, considering the charging infrastructure and battery recharging time.. It's at least 5 years away.
I think Toyota is just looking at Tesla as not even competition because Toyota can out produce and out sell them every year. That may eventually change. EVs are becoming less niche and other major manufacturers are putting out at least one EV, but none of them have completely switched over. It's possible that when we see another major auto group like GM or BMW start really ramping up their EV production Toyota will jump onboard.
TL;DR, it's neither for the Toyota CEO. It's strictly a numbers game. They have no reason to change anything at the moment.
Thanks to you both, good video. Good luck. M
The reason Sandy's buddy couldn't get the Prius they wanted is because Toyota has made everything they make (well, almost) hybrid. The Prius is obsolete.
Toyota should focus on longer range PHEVs in the short term (like the complete hit they have with the PHEV RAV4). 50-75 miles of electric only range. Charge at home. Drive 95% of your time on electricity before the gasoline engine starts charging your batteries. Don't worry about the charging network - use gasoline for those 5% of miles. Keep raising the number of miles you can drive as batteries get more capable.
What is the cost & capacity of these Hydrogen discs please? Does anyone know ? Thanks.
From Plasma Kinetcs website: "Storage is 30% lighter, 7% smaller, and 17% less expensive than Lithium-ion battery per kWh".
So think about this, a Tesla battery pack weights about 500kg (depending on model of course but this is a rough estimate), so for the same range (let's say 300 miles) a unit that is 30% lighter would still weigh 350kg! For 30 miles "get me home capacity", that's still 35kg - do fancy lugging that in your walmart trolley to the checkout?
Drivers of these vehicles should be instantly recognisable, as they will all look like Hapthor Bjornsson!
Clean capture of hydrogen from waste gases is huge! The laser release for cars may or may not be necessary, but Plasma Kinetics could lower the cost of hydrogen greatly. Fascinating science!
Holy cow! Hydrogen solid state disk!
I think the best application for the discs is not in the car but at hydrogen refilling stations.
I really liked Sandy's approach of co-operation rather than wasting effort competing. So much more could be done for humanity with sharing of knowledge and skills across the world.
Alex man, wow. Sandy gave some amazing advice. I hope Toyota watches this video and better yet, I hope they take it seriously. I’d charge for the amount of input Sandy just provided as potential paths forward for Toyota
Scotty Kilmer, the most famous RUclips mechanic, says stay away from Toyota Hybrid models. Gas versions can get 300-500K, but on Hybrid models at about 150K miles the hybrid system begins to fail and costs multiple thousands to fix. So that's why I would steer clear of a Toyota Hybrid.
Sandy is a visionary but my instinct says all Hydrogen technology is a dead end for cars. Why? Electric motors are so simple, batteries are getting better every year and cheaper. Plus if you have enough solar panels you can literally charge your car at home and for free.
Fuel cells are really simple too, and a fuel cell vehicle could use the same drive train as an electric car.
@Rebecca Sparks it's a business qualification that Sandy thinks nothing of. Someone mentioned it in the comments somewhere..
MBA - Master's of Business Administration.
It's not necessarily a bad thing - until someone with no OTHER qualifications takes over a company in an industry that they know nothing about. Unfortunately that happens rather frequently.
Thumbs up for Sandy.
That disk stuff is old news. I heard about it years ago, but didn't know it was actually being used.
Electric cars are old news. Henry Ford developed an electric car back before the Model T
@@davidclemens1578 with lead acid. Lol golf carts.
@@davidclemens1578 "Electric cars are old news." As is the internal combustion engine. Is there a point?
What’s putting some people off buying an electric car here in the U.K. is installation cost of an EV socket onto your home,which I believe is £2000.
rip's through it ''all''!! hell of an engineer!!
PALLADIUM Palladium is the KEY
14:50 "Let's move on, we talked about batteries"... no... you didn't. You talked about hydride discs.
GRAPHENE aluminium batteries developed in Australia 3x as dense energy etc as lithium and lower cost and moral issues diminished
@@robinspat Would like to know more about that.
@@robinspat Yes, do tell!
Basically if you're Toyota as this point you need to beg Tesla to license battery and FSD technology and come up with something you can offer as a return. Maybe building them a plant in Japan for free or something. Not sure there's anything Toyota can offer to Tesla at this point.
What about Toyota's joint venture with BYD? They make their own batteries for their EVs. They have their own 800 volt EV platform. Don't you think they will buy their batteries and tech?
Look up Toyota bZ.
Toyota doesn't need help and once it gets serious about EV'S, other OEMS are going to need serious help. Toyota is slow to change but once it dedicates itself to a cause, there's no stopping them afterwards. Nobody makes cars that are built so well and lasts over the long term than Toyota. Nobody. Their upcoming BRZ is only the first in a long list of EVs that are going to shake up the market once again like it did with the Priua in the 1990's.
Seems like pride is one thing that would prevent Toyota from just buying the tech. And the other thing would be money.
Sandy obviously doesn’t know the current development and history between the two Japanese companies.If you’re curious look up, Primearth EV Energy and Panasonic’s new venture with Toyota; Prime Planet Energy & Solutions (PPES).
Hydrogen disc is not the wave of the future. It is an extra step to an already expensive process. Sure you could use renewable energy to produce the hydrogen but it wastes way more energy than just directly charging batteries. How much more electricity, raw materials and time will it waste converting it to a disc? And you have to go pick these up somewhere? Last time I checked electricity is delivered to my house.
What Toyota needs to do go with the 4680 batteries for now and continue advancing the battery technology for charge speed and longevity. And at least partner with Tesla on the supercharger network. He always said he'd open it up to other companies if they helped build the network. It's amazing none of the big car companies took him up on it. Oh, that's right they were too busy with either hydrogen pipedreams or too complacent with the status quo.
The worst thing about the whole thing is I have is having to root for the fossil car companies just because I know we need to move to a sustainable future there is no way Tesla can grow fast enough to do it all.