With a 500Wh per 1 kg battery (CATL) coming out, a 100 kWh battery would weigh 200kg. BEV batteries are developing very fast. There's no real hope for hydrogen to win in small vehicles. Ships, trains, and maybe trucks, could have some use. But that 500Wh is the level where the game is also over for long-range trucks. A Freightliner consumes about 150 kW per 100km. That would be 300 kg. A 3 000 kg battery would give a 1 000 km range for that truck. 3 000 kg is not that much extra weight when you consider all the other tech you don't need anymore like a huge combustion engine, fuel tank, emissions systems, etc.
@@sigmamale4147 Whats funny? Weight is not a issue for weighter as it can tow several TONS weight behind. And eu is giving electric trucks to carry 5 tons more so batterywights is not a issue.
I remember reading about hydrogen powered vehicles in 11th grade chemistry... Im 38 now, 22 years later. Really feels like this technology went into stasis for 2 decades.
Just because something can be done does not make it economically viable I put this hydrogen car stuff in the same category as asteroid mining. This stuff sounds impressive at Starbucks over coffee but its always the implementation and economics in the end that wins.
Very interesting. But I think Toyota needs a lot of respect for trying all these different options, they seem to really care about ICE fans. I appreciate that.
Battery production capacity is the problem. Huge amount of investments needed and a big cut over their profits because of the battery cost in each car. Hydrogen combustion engines would maintain a bigger piece of the pie. Money is always what they care about.
@@MuitoDaora It's not what "they" care about. Hydrogen ICE simply makes more sense and is way better for the environment if you take into account the whole process chain of regular EVs. Plus the ICE has been developed and optimized for decades now, it would be a total waste to throw it all away and start fresh. Reinventing the wheel never works.
@@MuitoDaora if you're correct, why don't they simply take the money they're investing in hydrogen power and channel it into battery production so they get all the pie?
@@vinigretzky97 I'm not defending EVs, just saying that money in their pocket is what matters. EVs are being pushed by regulators for their efficiency and possibility of not polluting the atmosphere by using renewable energy for the whole process but the mining problem persist.
@@pjay3028 Because this experiment is dwarfed in comparison to build battery factories over the world. Even tesla has to use suppliers for their batteries.
"Let's say you burn 1 quart of oil every three thousand miles..." "Yep that's me with my 25 year old Honda B series engine" "... And my fellow enthusiasts of old Hondas and Subarus you know what this life is like" This was a magical and painful moment in the video
I've driven a couple of electric cars. As far as total driving experience, I would say they were amongst the most boring vehicles I've driven. That's just my opinion.
@@EngineeringExplained You left out one big issue, as Hydrogen slowly weakens the metals by bonding with them in a similar way that Oxygen does to steel. Which makes the pistons, cylinder head & block brittle over time. There was a test Mail Jeep [DJ series] that was built to burn Hydrogen but the engine lasted something like 10K miles and the pistons lasted even less. Unfortunately, this wasn't on the web, despite being in the newspapers in the pre-internet days...
All other videos out there briefly touch the surface of the topic. This is an outstanding work supported by scientific research papers. Really awesome work
@@houseking9211 well how much better, and why. Look at all the huge buildings, dams, bridges, engines, etc that we've built using our system. Would the metric system make those things better, built in a shorter time, more sound design? Just asking, I would have been used to the metric system by now if around for the last 15 years. But I don't really care if I buy 2 liters of milk or a half gallon.
Tom Cavanaugh He must have been such a good guy to know! They always say that you never forget a good teacher! Lucky you! He/she will have inspired you with the same enthusiasm. Mine came from a guy with a little corner electrical and radio repair shop who recognised my teenage interest in radio and fired me up. ... If YOU get the chance..put something back. It's VERY rewarding.
@Terry Winter Who (i.e. what's the source) says that electrical vehicles are more expensive and pollute more than conventional internal combustion vehicles ? Especially when evaluated over vehicle lifetime ? Would very much like to "read up" on that but have not seen any reliable and credible material... No lack of opinions and speculations though! Best regards
@Terry Winter Which type of batteries are worse than what, and under which presumed circumstances ? General "declarations" whitout more precise specifications are unfortunately of no use when one wants to investigate and understand factual problems and their circumstances... Short (and often blusterous) simplifications might appear to be great soundbites and might even be in accordance with current findings. But they might just as well be mere slogans minted by some "interested party", and due to their brief and nebulous nature there is no proper way to determine which is the case, which renders them totally useless to anyone who is looking to actually inform them selves on an issue. Best regards
@@mpadlite2925 it looks like you are blindfolding yourself. The most common batteries used in EVs are totally reliant on RARE minerals. 80% suppled by China. Prices will NOT fall as the clue is in the word RARE. Not to mention the appalling condition that some people are experiencing mining Cobalt. Before sounding off at others please share your ‘expert’ knowledge and explain what YOU think is a win win battery.
This is the most concise explanation of the use of hydrogen in engines and in fuel cells I've ever seen. I've had a vague concept of this topic but this video brings it sharply in focus. Thanks!
One problem though... This is not fuel cell technology. 🙂 This is just the classic, barbarian way of exploding things inside an internal combustion engine in order to produce mechanical energy. It "just" replaces gasoline/diesel/ethanol/whatever with hydrogen. Fuel cell technology is about reacting hydrogen and oxygen in an elegant, controlled manner, in order to produce electricity on demand which, in turn, powers an electric engine.
@@prafuitu barbaric?. If the goal is to avoid burning fossil fuels this is the best solution. Barbaric is the mining used to get Lithium to produce batteries.
@@rnp9876 I was referring to the method used to convert fuel into energy, be it diesel, hydrogen or whatever. "Exploding" hydrogen in an ICE to produce mechanical power has roughly 30% efficiency while converting that same hydrogen into electricity in a fuel cell vehicle is, again, roughly, 60% efficient. That's why I called ICEs barbaric in comparison to fuel cells. BEVs (battery electric vehicles) were never mentioned by me, so your argument about lithium mining is irrelevant to this discussion. It's barbaric in the same way frantically hitting the drums is barbaric compared to gently drawing the bow across a violin's strings in order to produce sounds.
@@rnp9876 Fuel cell vehicles *are* EVs, but again, you're missing the point that hydrogen ICE (presented in this video) is not the same as hydrogen fuel cells, what the top comment claims. Anyway, to play your game: It looks to me that you read somewhere that Li mining is bad and from that you derived that EVs are bad when you clearly don't know what an EV is. To claim right now that EVs are bad just because the batteries technology is not optimal (when we're clearly in its early days and it has already hugely improved compared to just a few years back) is as shortsighted as saying that the ICE was bad compared to a steam engine because its efficiency was horrendous in the beginning. Things are improving at a rapid pace, motors are becoming more efficient, alternative ways of electricity production are in development or deployed every day (check the ITER project to see the mother of all energy plants), new energy storage solutions are researched all over the globe, including alternative battery chemistries like Iron oxide or Aluminium/air ... EVs might not be the present, but they sure are the future in either BEV form, FCEV form or any other form that we haven't even dreamt of yet!
I experimented a little with converting my 4L inline petrol car to HHO, I was converting the water to gas in the car. The two biggest hurdles I had was spare electricity, and upper cylinder lube. I estimate about 130amps @ 12V to make a steady flow of hydrogen and run on average 2000rpm. Upper cylinder lube could be solved by using an engine converted to LPG only. Also if you only partial supply (I only ran 20amps@12V) to get better fuel efficiency you will need to spoof your oxygen sensor in exhaust. The cleaner exhaust will make the ECU think it running lean and enrich the tuning and won't use less fuel.
@@willg125 I also found that I only got about 10,000km out of my plates before they had oxidized to much. I used stainless 3.16, marine grade steel. Also my water got dirty and had to replace it about every 1,500km. I had 4 litre reservoir. I used a teaspoon of baking soda mixed in my distilled water. hope this helps.
I believe there is research done that showed hydrogen combined with gasoline EDIT:(2-10% combined). It is the most beneficial air- dual fuel ratio that had least amount emissions while getting an evened out and faster burn to ignite all of the fuel before it exhausts. I believe this was done In a rotary.
Are you saying that because you just thought it would be a good idea and do not know about H2 rotary engines, or because you know that Mazda has made rotaries that run on H2 before?
The rotary engine works really well with hydrogen because the inlet combustion and exhaust all occur in different areas of the chamber unlike a piston engine which all occurs in the same place in the cylinder
46km per stop is crazy. 35 stops is not good. It has to be green hydrogen in the 1st place and only 5% of current hydrogen production is green the rest is via Gas reforming.
My son is an engineer and was involved in the development of the Toyota Mirai fuel cell. He is currently working on next generation solid-state battery technology for EVs. I'm really proud of him.
That is Exactly what is Holding back EV's Right now, The Batteries. Solid State Batteries would be a Revolution in EV Tech as it would make them Lighter, Faster to Charge and give them a MUCH higher Range. I wish your son the best of luck in his research because I am absolutely Impatient to see Solid State Batteries become Mainstream
@@imdrunken Those are the very issues he's working to solve - along with eliminating dendrite formation in solid state batteries. He has a PhD from the Colorado School of Mines, and he works in Golden at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory.
@@zzanatos2001 good luck to him, but I doubt he will be breaking the laws of thermodynamics or conservation of energy any time soon. All solutions come with a whole new set of problems....none of which have ever negated the problems. Just spread them out or separated them by multiple manufacturing processes or other necessary thing to make these new "solutions" work.
I recently saw a video about JCB in England, they have been experimenting with hydrogen combustion engines in their construction vehicles. From what I saw , they have basically redesigned the cylinder heads for their Diesel engines, and they can now run on hydrogen!
Well I spoke to a JCB engineer in the beginning of Nov 2021 directly involved in the battery section of JCB and stated their hydrogen direct injection engine isn't real viable due to the huge amount of fuel required, however their Fuel Cell is very efficient, using 80ltr of hydrogen for 8 hours of work on a 16 tonne excavator but that's not JCB system and the cost of the system was huge, at least the cost of the excavator! So they are actually going down the battery route but cant tell anyone as they get huge grants from the UK government
That was a uncritical puff piece for JCB. JCB also make battery powered diggers that make sense. Incresingly, these quiet diggers will be required for night works in residential areas.
@@nordic5490 JCB said that small excavators are a better fit for batteries because most of the small excavators are not used for more than 4 hours in a day. The use of batteries in large excavators is not cost-effective or even feasible at this time.
The 20 ton excavator it's not viable in it's presentation , behind it there is a £150.000 container ( the with the same colours as the excavator) filled with hydrogen and a built in pump that is barely able to sustain the refill for that single excavator for half a day work. The developing of that engine is just free publicity as it's 100% funded by the government.
Really, I have a WRX with mods (e.g. bigger turbo, injectors, I/C...) with 290k miles and doesn't burn oil. (acutally, I lost maybe not even half a quart in 3k miles.) I think it's about the weight of oil you put in it. I use Rotella T6 5W-40 year around for years and no problems, beside some coolant leaks...
@@rzyao64 crap you're right, I thought for some reason that his video 2 years ago concluded that hydrogen rotaries weren't really possible. Thanks for correcting me
Wouldn't you need multiple Doritos per rotor? Jason mentioned some pretty high compression ratios, the easiest I've heard is using a big rotor for initial compression and final expansion and a smaller one for final compression and initial expansion. Jason also made a video on why it isn't happening (Doritos in general, not multiple tricks or h2).
I'm not letting "HCCI is difficult to control" count, because people have been cursing common rail injection as well, and now it's a staple in diesels. It's all a matter of development. I'm proud of Toyota for trying stuff here.
That's fair, but this stuff has been researched for decades, and still not really any commercial applications. Lots of companies (VW, Mercedes, Nissan, Mazda, Honda, Hyundai, GM, and on and on) have put effort into research/development, but decades later still not large scale applications. Mazda seems closest with their SPCCI engines, but even that has been delayed for US release.
@@EngineeringExplained BEV's where also developed for decades before they became viable. And i'm sure we all know how long safe nuclear power plants too to develop. Long development time does not necessarily mean the potential can't be reached.
If we don't get a breakthrough in battery technology soon, hydrogen is going to be our savior regarding mobile applications such as airplanes. We just need cheap electricity to produce it cost-effectively.
Also not mentioned is the enormous amount of energy required to compress the hydrogen to 10,000 psi, none of which is recovered during vehicle operation.
@@Brandon_letsgo then how would you solve Japan's energy problems? Being a small country located in a spot with the highest incidents of earthquakes and tsunamis on the planet, makes nuclear, wind, solar, etc less viable or more expensive or just flat out dangerous than in other countries. One of their solutions is to import energy. Electricity can't be imported from far away...and frequencies and voltages differ between countries. (Japan can't even move electricity between north and south because of frequency differences) If not imported hydrogen to suppliment their energy needs, what would you propose?
@@tylerdurden3722 The point here is that hydrogen is less efficient than almost any alternative. So actually the answer to your question is pretty easy; do almost anything other than burning hydrogen! Battery powered cars, for example, will move more people more miles and at a cheaper cost than doing it with hydrogen. It doesn't matter how the electricity gets made. Also, Japan has a lot of nuclear reactors and doesn't seem to be slowing down much on nuclear.
the power curve on gas vs hydrogen is totally different, i really am just guessing a hydrogen would make insane power at insane RPM, so push that engine to 14,000 RPM on a dyno ?
That pollution though. And the stink is bad, plus that obnoxious starting sound, rough feel when driving, and not all functions available unless the engine is running, oh yeah and you can't drive or run the engine indoors either. Hmm. Maybe not so good.
@@benjamind7290 Nah doesn't smell, pollution is NBD, sound is great, rough feel only if you drive a shitbox, and why would you want to run functions indoors or when the car isn't on.
Thank you for your video and your quick comparison. However, why don't you talk about costs comparing a fuel cell and a H2ICE?? It is further cheaper to adapt an ICE to work with H2 than using fuel cells currently. There are a lot of scientific papers researching on H2ICE and it is not difficult. My PhD thesis is based on comparing H2, CH4 and coke oven gas in a port-fuel SI engine, showing good efficiency and low emissions. It's true that there's still much work to do, but with your general comments, you just do a simplified comparison, taking down the work of many people during years. And you only take as a reference the job of a company on a single car, instead of referencing scientific papers. On the other hand, do you think that taking a single quote of a report is enough to say that H2 has no role in the future energy system? Try to store electricity during months with huge batteries at the same price compared to H2 using salt caverns or think the price of the reinforcement of the electrical grid in the future as the electrical demand increases, compared to using H2 pipelines which is way cheaper, as seen in many papers. Many scientists and countries are investing in H2 for many reasons, not for just a report or a single quote. I just ask to avoid giving quick general conclusions which influence people, instead of providing information to encourage people to inform and learn more. Technology can develop and improve very quickly, as seen during the last century. Sorry for the length of my opinion and I don't want to offend anyone! Thank you again for your videos!
For old cars, the best option is LNG or LPG. That would lower Co2 emissions by 20%-50%, relatively cheap installation, and proven technology. I drive on LPG for decades. Driving is 50% cheaper ROI for installation is from 8-18 months.
It comes with its own issues. If you simply convert a petrol car to CNG, it's only a matter of time until the valves/seats get toasted. Factory converted CNG cars all have hardened valves/seats. CNG was also heavily subsidized in my area, but once that stopped, CNG cars just faded away after a while (I drove CNG cars for years, btw).
@@prerunnerwannabe With modern (last ten years) installations that are not an issue, they can be programmed with a few percent of petrol added in the mixture for protecting injectors, and valves. For very sensitive and complex motors lubrication is added in intake. In my country is very popular almost every station has LPG.
Converting to CNG is actually a super popular option in India, there are a bunch of companies that will convert your car to also have a CNG tank, and it's pretty convenient because we have a lot of CNG stations as well since most autos also run on CNG (auto: tuk-tuks or rickshaws, basically a three-wheeled vehicle, that is a common mode of public transportation).
The valves/seats problems comes from keeping gasoline as additional fuel ( Bi-fuel option) . The gasoline has much lower octane rating than LPG and CNG so it do not allow increasing of compression ratios which increase the speed of burning . In South Korea pure LPG cars are used with liquid injection of LPG which even increase the power if compared to equivalent gasoline engine . The measures to convert gasoline to pure LPG or CNG engines are : 1 . Increasing the compression ratio 12:1 14:1 2. Using high energy ignition systems 100mJ and up per spark discharge and use of double tips iridium spark plugs . 3. Remapping the ignition and fuel maps of the ECU . 4. Replacing the exhaust valves seats with tool steel made ones and if possible use of sodium filled exhaust valves . There was experimental fuel mix mainly CNG with small amount of hydrogen. Hydrogen burns very fast , ignites by much lower energy spark discharge and accelerate the rate of burning of the mixture so it is another way to solve the problem with slower CNG burning speed.
The more work goes into every step of the process, the cheaper and more effective it gets. The early days of gasoline, diesel and even electric were not pretty. Took time to get to where it is today, and be as cost-efficient as it is, at scale. The important thing is to take steps to make that progress, and innovation will follow.
The efficiency will not change though. These are theoritical maximums. You will never be able to gain more efficiently from combustion. Physics says NO!! Plus why lose half of all your energy turning a transmission, driveshaft and differential when you have a much more efficient example: a hydrogen fuel cell that powers a motor right at the wheel station. This technology makes no sense. It is just a pipe dream being pursued by existing engine manufacturers like Cummins to keep themselves in the game. The writing is in the wall. They need to embrace change and research sensible technologies that have potential, instead of trying to adapt old technology.
@@bubba842 Why can't all these technologies exists simultaneously and then the consumer can make the decision for themselves regarding which type of car they want to buy? They just completed a 24 hour race with the car so the tech makes sense, its just not what you want in your car. Why do you care where Toyota puts their money anyways? If you want the most efficient vehicle, you can go buy that vehicle. Enough with this holier than thou stuff about sensibility and embracing change though, its too cliche.
@@collinhruschka8441 it's called business pal no holier than thou sensibilities. All these technologies will exist to an extent, but for the purpose they are required in. We will not have multiple technologies competing. Hydrogen fuel cells are cheaper and a lot more efficient than this technology. The vast majority of people will go with what's cheaper and is more efficient. Unfortunately neither of those technologies have an edge on Battery EVs. Yes hydrogen fuel cells will have their place in long distance and off road technologies, but every day people who commute will be driving EVs. There is room for this in the future in very niche areas, but those areas will not produce the revenue for a mass rollout of this technology to the mainstream, as it's just recycled old technology that will never get past the physics and downsides of combustion. The infrastructure is not in place for this technology and probably never will be. It will use twice as much hydrogen compared to a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle and will have a tank twice the size of today's gasoline fuel tanks. With that it will cost twice as much to fill up. I don't see any positives for the average person in using this technology. The only positives will be for legacy engine manufacturers, trying to hold on to a dying industry, hence why they are pushing it. The nature of the business environment will not allow multiple different technologies to exist all at once. There are many examples of this in the past. AC vs DC electricity, VHS vs Betamax and HD DVD vs Blu Ray. A standalone entity will survive, but unfortunately it will not be this hydrogen combustion.
Hydrogen ICE: -Vroom sounds -Manual trans -fast refuel -powered by explosions Electric - silent -no manual -slow charging -not powered by explosions I hope the downsides of hydrogen ICE get sorted
@@thewoode1050 Compressing takes time. My CNG car used to "charging" 30-40 minutes if compressor on filling station was weak. And CNG have only 200 bar, not 700.
@@GgDBXS No, I was referring to the tendency of Hydrogen to form very explosive mixtures with air. So a small leak and very tiny spark can lead to a proper explosion
With the amount of research you do for these video's do you actually have time to sleep? I'm in awe of the amount of work you put into your video's. Thank you.
And also use a fuel which isn't actually renewable (electrolysis isn't cost effective, almost all hydrogen is made from oil), green (still has emissions) and in general is just a campaign by fossil fuel and engine manufacturers to avoid becoming irrelevant.
Great explanation. The drawbacks of hydrogen were looked into years ago. The fuel cost alone will deter people from buying a hydrogen car. Then you have the massive infrastructure cost.
Hydrogen use with fuel cell engines is the only absolute solution though. It may be expensive right now; but much better choice than ruining the atmosphere and ruining the Earth. Its emission is water !
@@gokcan83 It is better but better doesn't mean it is viable. Do you think people will be motivated to buy a hydrogen powered car when they learn about the expenses involved? Unless something can be done to reduce cost to a reasonable level this won't take off.
@@abinmmj the US Govt, federal and state, subsidizes the oil and gas industry to the tune of over US$20 BILLION per year. Transfer those subsidies to the hydrogen infrastructure instead, and hydrogen becomes a viable fuel option.....
@@abinmmj Hydrogen will be use for all of Transportation, including semi-trucks, airplanes, cruise ships and powering houses. Don't worry Hydrogen is not going anywhere now
Funny!! I think the engine development teams are feeling the heat from the electric powertrain teams, No pistons, No catalytic converters, No valves, No fuel pumps or injectors, some with no transmissions…, The winner is electric!
Toyota already has hybrids and it's pushing battery chemistry forward that will eventually result in solid state batteries, something that it, unlike Tesla, will be able to disseminate widely. It's also one of the few automakers working on fuel cells, which will arguably supersede both batteries and internal combustion engines even when taking emissions into account. Due to embodied emissions of production, battery EVs have higher life cycle emissions unless they charge from electric grids served primarily by nuclear or hydroelectic power. Even with so-called "renewable" grids, the emissions are produced by backup gas turbines. The end result is that unless a BEV is charged from a low emission grid it will also have a lifetime that is high emission eventually. It's one of the reasons why an electric car is greener when running in one of the Scandinavian countries, because that cross-country grid has a backbone of hydroelectricity from Norway, nuclear power from Sweden and wind power from Denmark. But it's not so green when running in California which burns and fracks gas for most of its energy. Arguably, the lowest emission vehicle possible is an ammonia fuel cell vehicle using ammonia produced by electricity from a nuclear and hydroelectric grid. That vehicle will be low emissions in operation and embodied in production and disposal. And it would be more fully recyclable, than the carbon fibre composite fuel tanks a hydrogen fuelled vehicle would be. Right now composites are just dumped in landfill, something that Denmark and its kilotons (and in a decade, a megaton) of wind turbine blades are finding out to be a bit of an issue.
@@SyntheticFuture They're too late tbh, the worlds set on electrification by 2030. They and other manufacturers got too comfortable and lazy to innovate when there was still time
I love that most things can be figured out by the numbers first before energy is wasted. Love when real plans come together in an effort to go into correct direction more expediently. Nice work and video.
@@duffgaryduff Hydrogen engine doesn't need physic law to win. People need to expose the fact that electric car is dangerous and doesn't make sense on a massive scale. Hydrogen engine doesn't win on science alone. Media and acceptance of petrolhead win hydrogen engine
@@davidkaplan5517 they already are making hybrids and are making EVs soon. They just want to find other ways of carbon neutrality which everyone should do instead of hopping on the bandwagon because it’s cool. Lmao
In an interview on of the Toyota’s engineer mentioned the whole thing can be scrapped but they wanted to give it a try at the endurance race, Toyota opened the door so it’ll be interesting where it goes from here
Toyota had prepared lean-burn engines as an alternative to catalytic convertors….the precious metals market ensured govts ignored them and introduced the legislation that guaranteed them a huge income and a superb technology got buried. Battery industry are doing the same right now to petroleum products and will destroy their main green competitor hydrogen too.
@Alfred Wedmore Lean burn spark ignition is great for economy and mitigating HC and CO but it does nothing good for NOx. Back when those engines were developed this was ok because the NOx emissions limits were relatively high. Once the requirements for NOx emissions became more strict it became impossible to meet them with lean burn engines, stoichiometric mixture and a 3-way cat was the best approach. As an aside, some modern automotive engines do use lean burn under certain conditions, it's just not applicable across the entire load/speed range. Just to prove the point, diesels are intrinsically lean burn and thus can't use a 3-way cat. Initially this was allowed for by giving them looser NOx limits (and tighter HC and CO limits, which could be met using an oxidation catalyst) but these days they need the much maligned EGR and SCR systems to meet their NOx limits. A lean burn spark ignition engine would need the same equipment, though depending on the design it might be able to dispense with the DPF that diesels need to prevent soot emissions.
@@nerd1000ify This person spreads truth instead of conspiracy theories. There are plenty of real live conspiracies, no need to go looking so hard for them.
@Alfred Wedmore Wrong. The cats are there to protect the environment. All the sensors and the computers in your car are there to protect your cats! Why? Because the catalytic converter is your last line of defense against the harmful gasses that will destroy your planet.
ICE engine, due to friction, cannot be as efficient as electric motors, I can't help feeling all this effort is misplaced, if you want powerful cars, work on electric motors.
@@chrisp7839 ICE fires are easily put out. Battery fires burn hot and fast. The lithium in the batteries is extremely toxic and damaging to the environment way more so than an alumnium engine and gasoline. Electric cars are charged using natural gas and coal so they aren't even environmentally friendly at all
@@livinincalifornia Both Hydrogen and BEV card are electric, so the same is true of both, but 3 times as much electricity is used to power a fuel cell car.
You use 48 kwh of electric energy to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. With that energy, you can drive 200 miles or 300 km in a Tesla. It's not enough efficient yet. Maximum ideal efficiency is 39 kwh/1 kg of Hydrogen, but not yet reached. For up to 500 km range, I believe that electric is the best option. Plus I can produce my own electricity. Hydrogen is just too much of a hassle. Unless, is really cheap. Probably in 15 years, will be different.
@@gordesmihaela4635 You are assuming right now that windmills or solar panels arent going to get really expensive. We need to have a lot of options on energy, and honestly Hydrogen is just in the beginning phase of creation. EV's make sense for a commuter car. They do not make sense in freight, boating or airplanes. On a larger scale Hydrogen is honestly our best option in fueling the future and also keeping our same lifestyle.
You're making a few important assumptions, and missing a few steps. As the video illustrated, hydrogen combustion itself is a dead horse, even with much higher pressure you can't bring enough hydrogen with you for it to be practical, and even at 700bar refilling is already so impractical that for every 7 minute refill, the station has to re-pressurise at least 15 minutes, meaining you can do at most 3 cars/hour/station. Which is less than a fast charger, which has a net higher energy efficiency to boot (not just the hydrogen takes a lot of energy, the infrastructure as well, like compressors, whereas that kind of stuff is minimal on electric). Purely on the rarity of energy alone hydrogen makes little sense. Another assumption you make is that the material shortage isn't an issue for hydrogen. It is an issue. FCEV's use a boatload. Not only because they essentially are EV's (the fuelcell can't "spike" as hard as a battery can, so every FCEV has a battery to boot, which albeit smaller, is still sizeable), but also because the fuel cell has a lot of rare, expensive materials in it. Heck, it has platina as a frigging consumable. Considering you can't get 700 bar of hydrogen on your driveway, but you can get AC current which you can easily load balance on top of it, and battery chemistries are not only diverse but constantly evolving (energy density doubled, and LFP is a no-cobalt viable technology already), and considering "vroom" even for hydrogen makes no sense... I'd say hydrogen and sustainable have no mix in personal vehicles.
Fascinating explanation, really enjoyed this! I used to think hydrogen fuel was a no-brainer for sustainability but it's not quite that easy. As usual, thank you for the awesome video! Nicely executed, well articulated.
It's no brainer if you have no brains. Why waste most of the power produced on an inefficient process that roduces an inefficient fuel which which produces insufficient power? Also, you have to carry around two heavy H2 tanks containing the gas at such high pressures that a smile accident can cause them to both explode due to pressure and ignition. Definite death. Even a simple leak in any of the piping is enough to cause trouble, which is bound to haen due to the excessively corrosive property of H2.
Actually you don't need to store hydrogen in tanks. They have developed technology that is far safer. It's been around for quite a while actually. But yes if you just got out of a time machine from the year 2000, then that would make sense.
@@Berkhoi Apart from the points that you have raised, the real problem is that the energy used to compress the hydrogen alone can exceed the calorific value of the fuel. This makes the whole concept virtually pointless. Needless to say, I would not want to live too near to a filling station and tankers delivering hydrogen compressed to an excess of 10,000'psi would be travelling bombs, even without any fire. Back in WW2, when fuel was short here in the UK, many delivery vans ran on coal gas (97% hydrogen). However, a large leather bladder was fitted onto their roof, to allow direct filling from the town gas supply only pressurised by the gasometer's. The natural coal tar mix improved combustion and lubrication, but the bladder was almost as large as the van, with a range of between 20 and 30 miles. PS, the risk of combustion explosions with hydrogen is fairly low compared with LPG. Propane (which is heavier than air) pools and causes fire balls. while Methane diffuses and explodes. Both of these gasses have caused explosions after leaking into below ground sewers.
What about hydrogen combustion for HGVs, trains, boats and tractors etc. I can see small cars going the electric route but not heavy vehicles. I am impressed by the work JCB are doing here.
Here in the UK, the planned conversion to electric vehicles will require 10 additional power stations. Plans are to build more wind farms. However, the grid infrastructure is a far more serious problem and will require extensive upgrades. As recharging becomes faster, charging areas will be supplied from the 11'kV high voltage grid, rather than the low voltage sectors. At the moment, the government are promoting electric vehicles, since the change over to regenerative AC motors on the railways, along with LED lighting and induction cooker hobs has reduced the grid load quite considerably. In the future, the government expects to slow down the sale of electric vehicles to keep the electricity requirement in balance.
@@wilsjane Sounds like ride sharing, mass transit and reduced car ownership with Uber, Lyft et c will get a boost. As may thorium reactors for electricity. If personal ICE cars were closed course only, humankind will be playing more video games and gain 100 lbs per person. Not to mention noise, electrical leakage, and fire risk from 11kv lines. Yuk.
@@wilsjane The UK had planned on Ireland to offer green energy but that might go to France now. However the hydrogen dream is not over in the UK, they will be injecting hydrogen into the gas supply network and rolling out hydrogen ready gas burners for home heating. How will they make the hydrogen? probably wind farms at sea that convert the sea directly to hydrogen and dont need any expensive batteries.
@@geroutathat That makes a great deal of sense, avoiding the losses of conveying the electricity inland from offshore wind farms. The oxygen produced by splitting the water will be a valuable biproduct. Prior to the discovery of natural gas in the 1960s, town gas in the UK was mainly hydrogen, with a small percentage of carbon monoxide. It was produced by heating coal in a vertical retort and the coke then went on to fire the power stations. The one problem is that hydrogen has a lower calorific value than natural gas, so some upgrades may be needed to the distribution pipework. This is because following the changeover to natural gas, the crumbling cast iron Victorian pipework in the cities was used as ducts to install the natural gas pipes, thus reducing their size by up to 50%. We may also see a return of the famous gas holders that were used to smooth out the peaks in demand. Possibly the hydrogen will be supplied at higher pressure than previously, avoiding pipework upgrades. Hydrogen to directly power vehicles is a non starter, simply because it does not liquify. This results in huge energy wastage in compressing the gas for distribution. From production to final use in a vehicle, around 70% of the energy is lost as a result of compression for distribution and into the vehicles fuel tanks.
@@wilsjane EV's are the scam of the century. They could not be more harmful to the environment. Countless tons of rare, toxic metals must be strip mined and processed with vast quantities of toxic chemicals in order to manufacture batteries which will become yet another source of various toxic waste streams. Even if these waste batteries are "recycled", doing so will require more toxic chemicals and huge quantities of energy. The mining and processing of these rare, toxic materials requires vast quantities of energy in remote areas with little to no electrical infrastructure. We currently do not have enough electricity production in places like California to keep up with the current demand that does not include having EV's replacing gasoline and diesel vehicles. Already high electricity prices will skyrocket as more EV's hit the roads. Hydrogen is a much better path forward.
Yamaha and Toyota is also develop naturally aspirated v8 2UR-GSE hydrogen engine and it make 450hp @6,800rpm and 540n•m of torque @3,600rpm so it have same power as gasoline 2UR-GSE at slightly lower rpm with slightly more torque that mean your hydrogen engine is gonna feel stronger and better response, so power is not really problem anymore, So only problem with H2ICE for now is NOx emissions , Fuel consumption ,And reliability.
I mean, there’s even more problems with storage: Hydrogen is such a small molecule it diffuses through _anything,_ so while you’re just sitting there, your car is leaking fuel. Also, filling it up is a huge issue, because of multiple reasons: • it‘s hard to get such a high pressure connection system both reliable, safe and easy enough for regular people to use (the part that is the nozzle on the fuel hose today-in a hydrogen car, it has to be a leak proof interconnect that can hold the 10k PSI, have high pressure valves on both ends of the connection and can still be easily connected/disconnected hundreds of thousands of times), • it‘s hard to store for the station (needs huge tanks and they are, again, leaky), • and on top of it all, it‘s ridiculously easy to ignite compared to gas or diesel, so if there IS a leak somewhere, the smallest spark can make your station into a Hindenburg reenactment.
Because of those problems, scientists are working on trying to store it as easy to divide molecules which will make it a bit denser but safer and easier to store.
Hydrogen is not exactly terribly dangerous. Diesel and gasoline they are at leaking point. LPG butane is kinda heavy and sticking around in corners. Hydrogen is lite and really wants to escape upwards. So if you have small continues leak hydrogen is nowhere to be found, let alone burn. If you have big sudden leak than few seconds later it's all gone. It's climbing at few meters per second rate. Just don't have trapping area and no worries.
While H2 Permeation is an issue, it is very time dependent; unless you're trying to store a fixed volume of gas for a long time, the amount lost to permeation would be miniscule when compared to the volume which is used. E10 gasoline suffers from similar long-term storage issues due to water absorption, so the permeation issue is less of a concern than you might think. The bigger issue is closely related, which is maintaining a leak-tight H2 management system (since H2 is far more prone to leaks in fittings and pumps than other compressed gasses). As for your other issues with the gas handling challenges, there is actually good news: most of those issues have already been addressed by previous compressed gas handling solutions. Compressed natural gas in particular has set most of the engineering standards for dealing with safe and repeatable solutions for the transfer and storage of a compressed flammable gas, so most of the engineering best practices and standard operating procedures for users are already mature.
When I was 7/8 years old in the 90's I still remember my technology teacher talking about the possibility of using H1 as fuel source in engines. Amazing.
If someone invented gasoline just yesterday it we be labeled a "miracle fuel" just one single gallon contains 33,700 watt/hours or 116,000 btu's of energy.
What about running an engine 100% on alcohol? In Brazil, we got ethanol on the gas stations pumps. Ok, it's not 100% ethanol, because its hydrated, so it's a mix of 96% alcohol and 4% of water. Despite the fact that has less power by a same amount, when comparable to gasoline, it's renewable and less harzadous for the environment.
@@ianferreiraian Alcohol based fuels are terrible for the environment, they have a huge amount of knock on pollution. Real engineering has a nice video about it
@@EngineeringNibbles if he thinks ethanol is bad for the environment, then he either didn't do any research on it, or he researched from oil companies rather than the Brazilian ethanol, or by people such as yours truly who produces ethanol and runs several vehicles on it. When you burn ethanol in an engine, be it piston or even jet engines, it actually cleans the air. There is so much erroneous misinformation out there its staggering, and people who know just about nothing about it keep pushing the propaganda.
@@ianferreiraian I do it too, in northern Michigan. I've achieved better mileage on ethanol than on gasoline, while making A LOT MORE power.. not a little bit, a lot more. Can't run gasoline in my ethanol engines though, the high compression and heat will rattle them to death as it spark knocks itself into a thousand pieces. Ethanol makes more power than gasoline, however how much water is still in it affects how much power you get. 10% isn't that bad, 30% will see a big drop in power. I got into making ethanol and running my old muscle cars on it back in 2007, when gasoline was $5 a gallon here. I am a disabled veteran, so I have a fixed income and cannot earn more. So I have to find ways to save money so I could buy car parts rather than all my cash going to energy. Tuning for ethanol is very different from gasoline. It will run with a gasoline tune, but you won't get the most out of it in power nor mileage.
Guys. Don't forget that hydrogen may be clean in the burn, but it's polluting in the making. So to have a middle way and not be too crazy would be the reasonable way to go.
@@boboutelama5748 everything has some level of pollution. EVs create plenty of environmental issues themselves. The idea is to pollute less than we are now.
@@mjoet731 the attraction to hydrogen is that its the most common element on the planet and we spend our entire life surrounded by it. It presents a 100 percent renewable source of energy that would never be exhausted and could potentially be produced wherever it needs to be used eliminating all the expense of transportation and distribution. Hydrogen on demand.
The way this guy presents everything is made to convince the listener that it looks promising but somehow it’s just not possible, sorry! The reality is he is a paid detractor as many people on you tube are. There are many technologies that are possible for the betterment of mankind but some people wish to control the world and if a technology creates freedom for others out of their control then they find every way possible to stop it. One of the most effective ways is to hijack a movement or technology and redirect to more controllable circumstances. It allows for the masses to believe something never went anywhere because it was just inefficient or “uneconomical”. When the truth is it allowed to much freedom from the control of those who benefit from manipulating the population. Now if they could find a way to profit more off of hydrogen than oil or electric then we will be using hydrogen in the future. But until they find the perfect way to keep control while allowing people to use hydrogen. We won’t see anything but misdirection and manipulation of statistics.
I also saw a video, Harry of Harry’s Garage visited the JCB R&D facility and they claimed combustion hydrogen engines and fuel as extremely viable. Obviously infrastructure and making it work on cars are real issues but it sure sounded a lot better then EV to me!!
I guess I should have stated DE not HR. The HR fixed a lot of the DE issues. I came from a J30A1 which nearing the end of my driving of that car was burning some amount of oil that I don't remember as that was 8 years ago.
@@TKUA11 I'm sorry that you do not know engine models. VQ35DE is the infamous 350z/g35 engine as well as a good chunk of 3.5L engines for Nissan. The VQxxHR was the revamped version. J30A1 was a Honda V6 engine in the Accord.
I love all the comments saying how unpractical and useless this is and how they should just concentrate on building EVs. Seems that there are just as many EV fan boi's as there are ICE ones, as these were all the same arguments used against the (dire) first generation electric cars. Ultimately the more different ideas manufacturers can come up with the better. There are many cases where it seems EVs and electric (at least in it's current form) will not be a suitable replacement. Thus diversity of innovation is most definitely required, rather than throwing all our eggs in the EV basket.
I write for sustainability publications and I just needed the science on this engine and I needed it quickly - thank you so much for this brilliant video!
You should do a video on using ammonia as fuel for and ICE (or fuel cell). I've seen a bunch of articles about using ammonia produced with renewable energy to store hydrogen eliminating the need for the high pressure tanks.
Don't forget that some decades ago, some said Toyota was shooting their own foot investing in hybrid powertrains. Hydrogen powered cars, could be used in the future as a substitute to Diesel engines, or as a range extender. The Hydrogen combustion engines, could be applied in Motorsports too.
There is a simple solution for the m54 engines that burn oil, "fixed" 4 engines with the same method. At first you need to understand that they run on way to much oil temp. So do 6x an oil change every 2000km with a good 5w40 like the shell helix ultra, got good cleaning capabilities. In those 2000km drive then engine till it on temp and drive it harder, use more rpm and full throttle (that's what they like anyways) of you've done that 6x make an oil change with 5w50 or stay with 5w40 if you're more the person that drives short distances. This cleans the piston rings, also like I said they like to be driven with a lot of full throttle.. m52s shouldn't have that Problem, of they do, just drive them harder and always do short 15 tkm oil interval on all engines.
Big problem with every example of a hydrogen engine presented is that it naturally asperated. Using ambiant atmospher to mix with hydrogen gives oxides of nitrogen. To avoid this problem hydrogen injected into the engine as well as oxygen (from an tank or onboard source) will avoid the nitrogen problem. Carbon from lubricants is still a problem but very minimal as stated above.
@@davidweikle9921 I was thinking if this keyboard warrior wanted a class a nuclear reactor built into his car.. Go thorium... He would get what he deserved...
Technically it would be possible easily. The problem is shielding. If you want it to build it to regulation, you would get a light tank, not a car. But if you only want it to be reasonably safe, it's probably possible.
I've found if you just open enough tabs you can learn all kinds of stuff. It's a mix of both! In this case I'd heard about the engine a while back when they'd announced they were racing it, so I asked Toyota if I could use their engine animation and they sent it. :)
Peter Ross the impediments which the oil giants have been putting on hydrogen...and electric...vehicles over the last 100 years is absolutely mind-blowing.
At present there is probably too much focus on battery tech + fuel cells but investment is growing for hydrogen combustion as a solution to low-rev, high torque vehicles. I think it is too early to say what the fruit of greater investment will yield on hydrogen combustion but you rightly point out all the challenges - thank you for the informative video !
Every example of HICE for cars I've seen is basically just a gimmick. The only company that actually seems serious about HICE is JCB but I haven't found anything giving numbers to show why it's better than using a fuel cell. You can have big machines on a HFC, Mercedes are developing a truck based on HFC.
@@adrianthoroughgood1191 fuel cells use very expensive catalysts (platinum, palladium etc). These are way more experience than lithium and cobalt. By using HICE you are basically foregoing efficiency (hydrogen production, transportation and storage) but by using mature ice technology consumers have to pay less upfront. Also scaling the production of hydrogen is easier than scaling the battery capacity.
@@riba2233 Well there's no functional liberal party currently. It seemingly being wholly roped along by the leftists like it's would-be constituents. At the moment, at least to the casual observer and in the pragmatic sense, it seems the terms are interchangeable.
@@feandil666 if you're talking about places like California- nope- yeah sure there are "a lot" of filling stations but not enough to make having a h2 car seamless, not every city has a station and the gap between locations makes it simply unfeasible even if you really wanted to
@@princeplotena and with a battery vehicle you don't even need fueling stations, and the electric grid is everywhere if you do. hydrogen is such an inferior technology I really feel like there is a Toyota director that really, really, don't want to lose his job
Hydrogen might make more sense in a semi-truck because you have so much more available space to store hydrogen. Also, the added weight is much less of an issue in a large vehicle.
The Mercedes hydrogen truck is using a fuel cell to power electric motors, not an ICE engine as in this video. They have gone for liquid hydrogen to get more in the tank and are using double skinned tanks with vacuum between them to keep the hydrogen at cryogenic temperatures.
@@franklinblunt69 I believe the more relevant question is will there be a hydrogen infrastructure? If there will be then that's fine. The current power grid would need to be revamped in order to support an overhaul of the transit system to fully electric.
@@bobfg3130 I'm a consumer. Feed my demand. You can buy a H2 fuel cell vehicle if you so demand it. You just have to move to a limited part of California, or Japan.
@@bobfg3130 What makes it expensive? Economies of scale makes everything affordable to the point that consumers will buy it. A petrol V8 engine is not much more expensive than a flat 4 cylinder, notwithstanding you need 8 valves and spark plugs and conrods compared to 4. It's marketing because it's a subjectively better product, that has allowed cars with V8s to be put on the market at prices higher than other cars. In the new world, including my own country until recently, V8's are not expensive, they're an engine powering cars of the working class. Which thanks to economies of scale, are not really expensive.
@@Siegetower New technology, esearch and development, the type of car, materials, etc.. No, economies of scale don't make everything affordable. There's a limit to what economies of scale can achieve. If economies of scale would have been so great BMWs wouldn't be so expensive. A V8 is going to be larger, have more moving parts and generate more power...and torque. It's going to be more expensive than an I4. It's not marketing. If you have more moving parts, a larger engine, etc. that actually justifies the larger price. Also, new technologies have few experts and technicians that can work with them. So V8s were not expensive? We will go with what you say, still I4s were cheaper. Economies of scale don't solve everything. Most of the working class probably never considered V8s cheap. The working class that could afford a V8 could afford expensive brands. Basically, they weren't that much of a working class anymore. Yes, that car you want will be expensive. When you put billions of dollars in research and development you want them back. Production is going to be expensive because the technicians will be hard to find and hard to keep.
First of all, the high efficiency of the fuel cell comes from a long R&D process which took place over the course of several decades. I would not be surprised if the HCCI engine (which already is at 45% efficiency) could go through the same process, perhaps even with a better efficiency than the fuel cell at the end of it. Then, the hydrogen can probably be produced using solar-powered thermal reactions in countries with high temperatures; I imagine a future in which countries which now produce oil instead produce hydrogen, which has the advantage of being able to be shipped to other nations as an energy source. (Note that the U. S. and China would be some of these countries, as would be Spain.) Thirdly, the large tank size, as well as the 4h refilling time, can be remedied by exchanging the entire tank at refilling stations. This will reduce the total refilling time 7-fold.
Well said. From what it sounds like formula one will be almost zero emission by 2030, and in order to do that there needs to be an abundance of wind and solar energy to pull hydrogen from water and then to store and ship.
Let’s not forget all the maintenance benefits have in EV’s vs any type of combustion engine. Oil changes. Heat. Wear and tear. Transmissions. NONE of which are an issue with an EV.
Thermodynamics. It takes more energy to create the hydrogen than we get out of it. Gasoline and diesel are used for a reason. Sun stored energy in plants and that is consumed when we burn fuel.
you talking about rotary engines makes me remember about when mazda actually sold rx8s with a hydrogen powered rotary engine and it actually works well
Stanley Myers did this back in the 80's. He was able to separate the hydrogen in the water and then it was flowed into a combustion engine. But back then oil was king and Stanley was killed mysteriously before his invention went mainstream. I saw another system in the 90's that made hydrogen from water in your garage and you pumped it into tanks in your truck.
Check out my earlier post. Friend of mine did this with his V8, worked O.K. But the internals of his engine were junked after 12 months from the water acids caused from combustion. He was rightfully upset.
Over the past 100 years there were four successful attempts at building a hydrogen powered engine. All you had to do was fill the tank from your garden hose and the only emissions were water vapor. All inventors met mysterious ends. So over the last 15 years we've been wondering how the oil companies and governments will be able to get their cut from this technology.....and they are
Hydrogen engines are the future in regards to cost, maintenance and impact on environment. In particular the environmental impact is better with Hydrogen engine... plus we already have thousands of petrol stations and it would be easy to convert pumps to deliver Hydrogen ....hence the infrastructure is already there... I do hope Hydrogen technology is given the backing by governments it deserves...
In the future yes, even in western powers like the EU (they declared the intention of building a hydrogen based economy) The korean and japanese are already interested in hydrogen technologies because normal EVs are not good for them cost and space wise and geopolitics wise The current ev craze is a ploy for money transfer, and control, also an attempt to diminish the importance of middle east resources
An interesting hydrogen combustion technology is that of KEYOU. This company converts diesel engines to HICE engines. With these engines they reach efficiencies of nearly 50% with the use of EGR, lean combustion and high boost pressures. A nice development to follow, because emmissions are nearly zero
Very, very, useful information. There's a lot of misconceptions on the internet about how "easy" it would be to convert an existing ICE to run on hydrogen, but this video is one of very few that actually delves into the specifics and well as pro's and con's vs. hydrogen cells. As always, great work Jason.
So what you’re saying is, in order to get decent horsepower we’d need something to increase pressure in the cylinders? *salivates in 450 psi of forced induction*
Do people even appreciate the danger of having high pressure tanks near them? Double that for high pressure Hydrohen tanks? Those are bombs, actual Hollywood style explosions should be possible from cars falling down or maybe even bullets hitting them at the right place. High pressure hydrogen bomb, yeah, sounds safe to drive on the roads.
Why not focus on ammonia combustion engine conversion instead of hydrogen. Also green emissions, easier conversion and safer fuel storage compared to hydrogen. Ammonia was used as the fuel for the X15 test flights back in the 60s?
I've researched hydrogen combustion engines for a few years and I can't believe that so few car enthusiasts know about it, Hyundai was working with it for some time and now Toyota! The future of enthusiasts car is not electric, and even if it is, we will still be able to drive out childhood dream cars with all the beautiful noise we love!
Yeah, but electronysis doesn't produce dirty hydrogen. Methane reforming does. And we need to get away from methane reforming for any of this to make sense...
@@Validole there are catalyst being looked at that can produce hydrogen. Imagine being stuck I'm the middle of nowhere and you fill a tank with river water and drop a tablet into your emergency tank, next thing you know you are on the road again. We produce lots of biowaste that we could potentially convert to less harmful forms for a neutral source of hydrogen.
As i'm sure you are aware electrolysis produces both oxygen and hydrogen, I wonder if its possible to make an engine that runs by combusting the mixture directly. For example you have an O2 and H tank in the car and mix them in the cylinder at the correct ratio. Chances are I'm talking nonsense but just a wild idea.
I have aquired a eficiency level of 50% a 60% with best reactors. We Have (I and my group) 50% consum reduction of gasoline, and more than 90% reducing emissions. The blind peoples say this is not possible, they say that we are crazy. Crazy is anyone that not makes HHO use, then we make a silent revolution. I like your explantion. Congratulations
“25% load, meaning you would need very large engines to make good power” sooo another 8.0L v10 hydrogen viper?
with all the power of a 4 cylinder corolla!!
@@bigbones916 if your really lucky. Strap a turbo to that viper. Let it rev to 10k and you'll start getting closer to an impreza
Or we could just use gasoline engines. Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel?
@Benjamin Smith dude koenigsegg makes 600hp from three cylinder engine
@@danielsatko- he’s not wrong tho, the most powerful “4cyl” in the world, while the gemera is a 3cyl engine @,@
"Lets say you have a car that burns a quart of oil every 3000 miles"
Me with an Audi 2.0TFSI: So you mean good oil economy
Does 2.0 FSI still burns oil ? I know 2009-2011TFSI burned it but after that they changed piston rings.
@@Thevol40k Subaru FB20 engine burns 1 litre of oil every 2000km on my car.
@@vulpes122 is that a rotary
New engine: Audi should do about 10,000 miles. BMW practically 'zero' both in my experience.
So it's practically a diesel?
Going to the 24h race Toyota was actually trying to find out the issues that the engine was having. It was much easier for them to find out.
I could have tested that out on the street.... They don't own a single track?
@@dylantroutman4363 It seems they don't have a track for properly testing the cars
@@dylantroutman4363 fuji speedway is their track
@@kressy and didn't toyota just built Japan's own Nürburgring recently?
@@kressy That´s their racetrack, yes. Testing cars however is done at the new Toyota Technical Center Shimoyama.
I think the tank weight is still lighter than battery weight. Be interesting to see the weight difference and possible environment impacts.
With a 500Wh per 1 kg battery (CATL) coming out, a 100 kWh battery would weigh 200kg. BEV batteries are developing very fast. There's no real hope for hydrogen to win in small vehicles. Ships, trains, and maybe trucks, could have some use. But that 500Wh is the level where the game is also over for long-range trucks. A Freightliner consumes about 150 kW per 100km. That would be 300 kg. A 3 000 kg battery would give a 1 000 km range for that truck. 3 000 kg is not that much extra weight when you consider all the other tech you don't need anymore like a huge combustion engine, fuel tank, emissions systems, etc.
@@timogronroos4642 non-sense…
@@timogronroos4642 lol ice vehicles weigh on average 200kg less than evs. That battery is heavier than the entire power train
@@sigmamale4147 Whats funny? Weight is not a issue for weighter as it can tow several TONS weight behind. And eu is giving electric trucks to carry 5 tons more so batterywights is not a issue.
@@ViihdeJukat HAHAHAHA weight isnt an issue ? Guess what they could have done with that extra 3 tons ? Haul merchandise and actual products !
I remember reading about hydrogen powered vehicles in 11th grade chemistry... Im 38 now, 22 years later. Really feels like this technology went into stasis for 2 decades.
Hydrogen was always just a distraction by the oil lobby to slow down progress
GM introduced its electric car back in the mid 80! Was killed off by the big gasoline Co's
Just because something can be done does not make it economically viable I put this hydrogen car stuff in the same category as asteroid mining. This stuff sounds impressive at Starbucks over coffee but its always the implementation and economics in the end that wins.
@@GeraldPUR Electric car was first invented in the 1840's, first one to market beat the Benz Patentwagen by 2 years.
@@redbandanacat6206 EXACTLY
Lets say you burn oil every 3k miles... *Me a AP1 owner* "right right..."
What is an AP1 ?
@@rimckd825 it’s a honda s2k
As the previous owner of a 1998 Corolla, "That's nothing, man!"
Don’t hate on Hondas self-replenishing oil system!
I'm a subaru owner with a blown head gasket... my oil goes below the dip stick about 250 miles after filling it up
Very interesting. But I think Toyota needs a lot of respect for trying all these different options, they seem to really care about ICE fans. I appreciate that.
Battery production capacity is the problem. Huge amount of investments needed and a big cut over their profits because of the battery cost in each car. Hydrogen combustion engines would maintain a bigger piece of the pie.
Money is always what they care about.
@@MuitoDaora It's not what "they" care about.
Hydrogen ICE simply makes more sense and is way better for the environment if you take into account the whole process chain of regular EVs.
Plus the ICE has been developed and optimized for decades now, it would be a total waste to throw it all away and start fresh.
Reinventing the wheel never works.
@@MuitoDaora if you're correct, why don't they simply take the money they're investing in hydrogen power and channel it into battery production so they get all the pie?
@@vinigretzky97 I'm not defending EVs, just saying that money in their pocket is what matters.
EVs are being pushed by regulators for their efficiency and possibility of not polluting the atmosphere by using renewable energy for the whole process but the mining problem persist.
@@pjay3028 Because this experiment is dwarfed in comparison to build battery factories over the world. Even tesla has to use suppliers for their batteries.
This was really good Jason. People don´t seem to realize how difficult Hydrogen power can be.
Stan Meyer made a hydrogen car in the 80s and was coincidentally killed by the gov
"Let's say you burn 1 quart of oil every three thousand miles..."
"Yep that's me with my 25 year old Honda B series engine"
"... And my fellow enthusiasts of old Hondas and Subarus you know what this life is like"
This was a magical and painful moment in the video
25yr. old Honda's ass! Honda continued this fine legacy in the 2012 (Gen 2) Acura MDX.
@@pw9021 uhhh he didn’t say that was the only engine that ate oil…
Laughs in 2az-fe
Hehe,98 corolla here 1 qt every 400 miles
Vq's have entered the chat 😗
Im so happy that you include NOx, as many oversee this.
Don't u ruin my one hope of driving a V8 in my old age days.
Thats why gas cars have a catalytic converters wonder how they use a catalytic converter on this type of fuel
Aint a problem if you make the einge two-stroke.
@General Smedley Butler There's no sound tho
I've driven a couple of electric cars. As far as total driving experience, I would say they were amongst the most boring vehicles I've driven. That's just my opinion.
The double bonds between the C and Os are a nice touch.
Not tryna brag but I might have taken chem 101. 💁♂️
@@EngineeringExplained I took Chem back in grade 11. I love Chem, but man I nearly failed! It got way more difficult than I expected it to.
@@EngineeringExplained damn Jason leave some knowledge for the rest of us!
@@EngineeringExplained You left out one big issue, as Hydrogen slowly weakens the metals by bonding with them in a similar way that Oxygen does to steel. Which makes the pistons, cylinder head & block brittle over time. There was a test Mail Jeep [DJ series] that was built to burn Hydrogen but the engine lasted something like 10K miles and the pistons lasted even less. Unfortunately, this wasn't on the web, despite being in the newspapers in the pre-internet days...
@@davidhollenshead4892 Hadn't thought about that in spite of my time as an industrial welder. Hydrogen embrittlement is a pretty big deal.
All other videos out there briefly touch the surface of the topic.
This is an outstanding work supported by scientific research papers.
Really awesome work
It’ll be a great day when engineering explained starts using the metric system
Let’s hope not
Why?
@@hubster4477 because the metric system is simply better
@@houseking9211 well how much better, and why. Look at all the huge buildings, dams, bridges, engines, etc that we've built using our system. Would the metric system make those things better, built in a shorter time, more sound design? Just asking, I would have been used to the metric system by now if around for the last 15 years. But I don't really care if I buy 2 liters of milk or a half gallon.
Haha totally! But American education system prevents that!
I've been waiting, since 1978, for hydrogen combustion vehicles, thanks to an over-enthusiastic high school physics teacher.
Merkel had a hydrogen internal combustion Presidential BMW for years.
But its only for her, nobody else...
Tom Cavanaugh
He must have been such a good guy to know!
They always say that you never forget a good teacher!
Lucky you! He/she will have inspired you with the same enthusiasm. Mine came from a guy with a little corner electrical and radio repair shop who recognised my teenage interest in radio and fired me up. ...
If YOU get the chance..put something back. It's VERY rewarding.
@Terry Winter Who (i.e. what's the source) says that electrical vehicles are more expensive and pollute more than conventional internal combustion vehicles ? Especially when evaluated over vehicle lifetime ?
Would very much like to "read up" on that but have not seen any reliable and credible material... No lack of opinions and speculations though!
Best regards
@Terry Winter
Which type of batteries are worse than what, and under which presumed circumstances ?
General "declarations" whitout more precise specifications are unfortunately of no use when one wants to investigate and understand factual problems and their circumstances...
Short (and often blusterous) simplifications might appear to be great soundbites and might even be in accordance with current findings. But they might just as well be mere slogans minted by some "interested party", and due to their brief and nebulous nature there is no proper way to determine which is the case, which renders them totally useless to anyone who is looking to actually inform them selves on an issue.
Best regards
@@mpadlite2925 it looks like you are blindfolding yourself. The most common batteries used in EVs are totally reliant on RARE minerals. 80% suppled by China. Prices will NOT fall as the clue is in the word RARE. Not to mention the appalling condition that some people are experiencing mining Cobalt. Before sounding off at others please share your ‘expert’ knowledge and explain what YOU think is a win win battery.
This is the most concise explanation of the use of hydrogen in engines and in fuel cells I've ever seen. I've had a vague concept of this topic but this video brings it sharply in focus. Thanks!
One problem though... This is not fuel cell technology. 🙂 This is just the classic, barbarian way of exploding things inside an internal combustion engine in order to produce mechanical energy. It "just" replaces gasoline/diesel/ethanol/whatever with hydrogen.
Fuel cell technology is about reacting hydrogen and oxygen in an elegant, controlled manner, in order to produce electricity on demand which, in turn, powers an electric engine.
@@prafuitu barbaric?. If the goal is to avoid burning fossil fuels this is the best solution. Barbaric is the mining used to get Lithium to produce batteries.
@@rnp9876 I was referring to the method used to convert fuel into energy, be it diesel, hydrogen or whatever.
"Exploding" hydrogen in an ICE to produce mechanical power has roughly 30% efficiency while converting that same hydrogen into electricity in a fuel cell vehicle is, again, roughly, 60% efficient.
That's why I called ICEs barbaric in comparison to fuel cells. BEVs (battery electric vehicles) were never mentioned by me, so your argument about lithium mining is irrelevant to this discussion.
It's barbaric in the same way frantically hitting the drums is barbaric compared to gently drawing the bow across a violin's strings in order to produce sounds.
@@prafuitu EVs are not the solution. Fuel cell, probably and they are much better than battery only car, in my opinion.
@@rnp9876 Fuel cell vehicles *are* EVs, but again, you're missing the point that hydrogen ICE (presented in this video) is not the same as hydrogen fuel cells, what the top comment claims.
Anyway, to play your game:
It looks to me that you read somewhere that Li mining is bad and from that you derived that EVs are bad when you clearly don't know what an EV is.
To claim right now that EVs are bad just because the batteries technology is not optimal (when we're clearly in its early days and it has already hugely improved compared to just a few years back) is as shortsighted as saying that the ICE was bad compared to a steam engine because its efficiency was horrendous in the beginning.
Things are improving at a rapid pace, motors are becoming more efficient, alternative ways of electricity production are in development or deployed every day (check the ITER project to see the mother of all energy plants), new energy storage solutions are researched all over the globe, including alternative battery chemistries like Iron oxide or Aluminium/air ...
EVs might not be the present, but they sure are the future in either BEV form, FCEV form or any other form that we haven't even dreamt of yet!
Electric cars are not the ultimate gift to humanity.
Yes the Ultimate gift is the banana 😂
Banana powered cars
Edit: water tank -> HHO generator -> air compressor -> engine
@ehaurader2640 nobody talks about that application it's like it's invisible
"Burns a quart of oil every 3000 miles"
Subaru owners: Those are rookie numbers!
Yep. Bout a quart per 1000, but she has moods.
None of the three subies I had burned really any oil, the modded WRX aspirated a little if I drove it like i stole it but that's it.
difference between burning and consumption
I owned a 2.5 gt and a sti at the same time. Wife had a 2.5i legacy. We were the darling customers of Rotella T6 😬
My rotary burns less… lol
I experimented a little with converting my 4L inline petrol car to HHO, I was converting the water to gas in the car.
The two biggest hurdles I had was spare electricity, and upper cylinder lube.
I estimate about 130amps @ 12V to make a steady flow of hydrogen and run on average 2000rpm.
Upper cylinder lube could be solved by using an engine converted to LPG only.
Also if you only partial supply (I only ran 20amps@12V) to get better fuel efficiency you will need to spoof your oxygen sensor in exhaust. The cleaner exhaust will make the ECU think it running lean and enrich the tuning and won't use less fuel.
You should make a video about that.
that sounds like a headache
I'd love to hear more about this
@@willg125 I also found that I only got about 10,000km out of my plates before they had oxidized to much. I used stainless 3.16, marine grade steel. Also my water got dirty and had to replace it about every 1,500km. I had 4 litre reservoir.
I used a teaspoon of baking soda mixed in my distilled water.
hope this helps.
@@tomkeegan3782 Random af question: Want some science-channel to check out, cause the
learning never ends? I got some.
i hope mazda tries to make a hydrogen rotary race car. that would be so cool to see
I believe there is research done that showed hydrogen combined with gasoline EDIT:(2-10% combined). It is the most beneficial air- dual fuel ratio that had least amount emissions while getting an evened out and faster burn to ignite all of the fuel before it exhausts. I believe this was done In a rotary.
Are you saying that because you just thought it would be a good idea and do not know about H2 rotary engines, or because you know that Mazda has made rotaries that run on H2 before?
Mazda did make a hydrogen powered RX8 race back when RX8's where new. You could buy in Japan only a duel fuel rx8 and it worked really well actually
Woahhhhhhhh. SO THERE'S HOPE?
The rotary engine works really well with hydrogen because the inlet combustion and exhaust all occur in different areas of the chamber unlike a piston engine which all occurs in the same place in the cylinder
EXCELLENT VIDEO ABOUT HYDROGEN BURNING IN ICE ENGINE. PROBLEM LIKE NO AND CO2 WERE NEVER TALKED IN OTHER VIDEO. GOOD JOB KEEP IT UP.
man this is excactly the video i wanted to see
46km per stop is crazy. 35 stops is not good.
It has to be green hydrogen in the 1st place and only 5% of current hydrogen production is green the rest is via Gas reforming.
YESSS
So do i
My son is an engineer and was involved in the development of the Toyota Mirai fuel cell. He is currently working on next generation solid-state battery technology for EVs. I'm really proud of him.
That is Exactly what is Holding back EV's Right now, The Batteries. Solid State Batteries would be a Revolution in EV Tech as it would make them Lighter, Faster to Charge and give them a MUCH higher Range.
I wish your son the best of luck in his research because I am absolutely Impatient to see Solid State Batteries become Mainstream
Except all methods of producing solid state batteries takes huge amounts of power and mining....which leads you back to not really making a difference
Respect
@@imdrunken Those are the very issues he's working to solve - along with eliminating dendrite formation in solid state batteries. He has a PhD from the Colorado School of Mines, and he works in Golden at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory.
@@zzanatos2001 good luck to him, but I doubt he will be breaking the laws of thermodynamics or conservation of energy any time soon. All solutions come with a whole new set of problems....none of which have ever negated the problems. Just spread them out or separated them by multiple manufacturing processes or other necessary thing to make these new "solutions" work.
I recently saw a video about JCB in England, they have been experimenting with hydrogen combustion engines in their construction vehicles. From what I saw , they have basically redesigned the cylinder heads for their Diesel engines, and they can now run on hydrogen!
Well I spoke to a JCB engineer in the beginning of Nov 2021 directly involved in the battery section of JCB and stated their hydrogen direct injection engine isn't real viable due to the huge amount of fuel required, however their Fuel Cell is very efficient, using 80ltr of hydrogen for 8 hours of work on a 16 tonne excavator but that's not JCB system and the cost of the system was huge, at least the cost of the excavator! So they are actually going down the battery route but cant tell anyone as they get huge grants from the UK government
That was a uncritical puff piece for JCB.
JCB also make battery powered diggers that make sense. Incresingly, these quiet diggers will be required for night works in residential areas.
@@tatradak JCB has had a battery digger for a year now.
@@nordic5490 JCB said that small excavators are a better fit for batteries because most of the small excavators are not used for more than 4 hours in a day. The use of batteries in large excavators is not cost-effective or even feasible at this time.
The 20 ton excavator it's not viable in it's presentation , behind it there is a £150.000 container ( the with the same colours as the excavator) filled with hydrogen and a built in pump that is barely able to sustain the refill for that single excavator for half a day work.
The developing of that engine is just free publicity as it's 100% funded by the government.
Great video as always..
Thanks for sharing
*"Let's say you burn 1 quart of oil every three thousand miles..."*
Legacy GT Owners: "Woah, really?"
BMW Owners... 1 quart per 3K... Hold my beer.
my impreza goes through a 1 quart at most every 1k miles lol
@@briandavis7226 My friend's old impreza did the same.
Really, I have a WRX with mods (e.g. bigger turbo, injectors, I/C...) with 290k miles and doesn't burn oil. (acutally, I lost maybe not even half a quart in 3k miles.)
I think it's about the weight of oil you put in it. I use Rotella T6 5W-40 year around for years and no problems, beside some coolant leaks...
Wait till you hear about electric vehicles!
Does this mean that hydrogen combustion spinning doritos are remotely theoretically possible now? 🤔
Mazda actually made a hydrogen powered RX8 available to Japan at one point
@@rzyao64 crap you're right, I thought for some reason that his video 2 years ago concluded that hydrogen rotaries weren't really possible. Thanks for correcting me
Wouldn't you need multiple Doritos per rotor? Jason mentioned some pretty high compression ratios, the easiest I've heard is using a big rotor for initial compression and final expansion and a smaller one for final compression and initial expansion.
Jason also made a video on why it isn't happening (Doritos in general, not multiple tricks or h2).
You can put the spinning Dorito on LPG... That will pass emissions
Liquid Piston engine. New rotary that can and does run on hydrogen. The channel Warped Perception just did a video on it.
I'm not letting "HCCI is difficult to control" count, because people have been cursing common rail injection as well, and now it's a staple in diesels. It's all a matter of development. I'm proud of Toyota for trying stuff here.
I think it's because the properties of hydrogen are very different from diesel fuel.
@@UnnamedThe Ah, I see your angle now. Good point.
That's fair, but this stuff has been researched for decades, and still not really any commercial applications. Lots of companies (VW, Mercedes, Nissan, Mazda, Honda, Hyundai, GM, and on and on) have put effort into research/development, but decades later still not large scale applications. Mazda seems closest with their SPCCI engines, but even that has been delayed for US release.
@@EngineeringExplained BEV's where also developed for decades before they became viable. And i'm sure we all know how long safe nuclear power plants too to develop. Long development time does not necessarily mean the potential can't be reached.
If we don't get a breakthrough in battery technology soon, hydrogen is going to be our savior regarding mobile applications such as airplanes. We just need cheap electricity to produce it cost-effectively.
Had to read the JEURC paper for my dissertation, I feel that pain.
Also not mentioned is the enormous amount of energy required to compress the hydrogen to 10,000 psi, none of which is recovered during vehicle operation.
Offset with nuclear or renewable energy
Hydrogen is another pipe dream.
that is a good point, so don't do that
@@Brandon_letsgo then how would you solve Japan's energy problems?
Being a small country located in a spot with the highest incidents of earthquakes and tsunamis on the planet, makes nuclear, wind, solar, etc less viable or more expensive or just flat out dangerous than in other countries.
One of their solutions is to import energy. Electricity can't be imported from far away...and frequencies and voltages differ between countries. (Japan can't even move electricity between north and south because of frequency differences)
If not imported hydrogen to suppliment their energy needs, what would you propose?
@@tylerdurden3722 The point here is that hydrogen is less efficient than almost any alternative. So actually the answer to your question is pretty easy; do almost anything other than burning hydrogen! Battery powered cars, for example, will move more people more miles and at a cheaper cost than doing it with hydrogen. It doesn't matter how the electricity gets made. Also, Japan has a lot of nuclear reactors and doesn't seem to be slowing down much on nuclear.
that gasoline idea sound pretty cool, not heavy, a lot of energy in small space
the power curve on gas vs hydrogen is totally different, i really am just guessing a hydrogen would make insane power at insane RPM, so push that engine to 14,000 RPM on a dyno ?
You can't just decide to push an engine to 14,000 rpm. Go turn a wrench
That pollution though. And the stink is bad, plus that obnoxious starting sound, rough feel when driving, and not all functions available unless the engine is running, oh yeah and you can't drive or run the engine indoors either. Hmm. Maybe not so good.
@@Walkeranz it is a small displacement 3 cylinder, right? almost a motorcycle engine . shorten the stroke too
@@benjamind7290 Nah doesn't smell, pollution is NBD, sound is great, rough feel only if you drive a shitbox, and why would you want to run functions indoors or when the car isn't on.
Thank you for your video and your quick comparison. However, why don't you talk about costs comparing a fuel cell and a H2ICE?? It is further cheaper to adapt an ICE to work with H2 than using fuel cells currently.
There are a lot of scientific papers researching on H2ICE and it is not difficult. My PhD thesis is based on comparing H2, CH4 and coke oven gas in a port-fuel SI engine, showing good efficiency and low emissions. It's true that there's still much work to do, but with your general comments, you just do a simplified comparison, taking down the work of many people during years. And you only take as a reference the job of a company on a single car, instead of referencing scientific papers.
On the other hand, do you think that taking a single quote of a report is enough to say that H2 has no role in the future energy system? Try to store electricity during months with huge batteries at the same price compared to H2 using salt caverns or think the price of the reinforcement of the electrical grid in the future as the electrical demand increases, compared to using H2 pipelines which is way cheaper, as seen in many papers. Many scientists and countries are investing in H2 for many reasons, not for just a report or a single quote.
I just ask to avoid giving quick general conclusions which influence people, instead of providing information to encourage people to inform and learn more. Technology can develop and improve very quickly, as seen during the last century.
Sorry for the length of my opinion and I don't want to offend anyone!
Thank you again for your videos!
Would you may be have a link to share to have a look to you thesis?
I would also be very interested to read your paper.
How is the metal fatigue issue with hydrogen ?
Please do a video on your research. It sounds very interesting
For old cars, the best option is LNG or LPG. That would lower Co2 emissions by 20%-50%, relatively cheap installation, and proven technology. I drive on LPG for decades. Driving is 50% cheaper ROI for installation is from 8-18 months.
cng is dirt cheap on the markets. As low as 10c per kg. But that low price for now doesnt reflect low price on the pump stations.
It comes with its own issues. If you simply convert a petrol car to CNG, it's only a matter of time until the valves/seats get toasted. Factory converted CNG cars all have hardened valves/seats. CNG was also heavily subsidized in my area, but once that stopped, CNG cars just faded away after a while (I drove CNG cars for years, btw).
@@prerunnerwannabe With modern (last ten years) installations that are not an issue, they can be programmed with a few percent of petrol added in the mixture for protecting injectors, and valves. For very sensitive and complex motors lubrication is added in intake. In my country is very popular almost every station has LPG.
Converting to CNG is actually a super popular option in India, there are a bunch of companies that will convert your car to also have a CNG tank, and it's pretty convenient because we have a lot of CNG stations as well since most autos also run on CNG (auto: tuk-tuks or rickshaws, basically a three-wheeled vehicle, that is a common mode of public transportation).
The valves/seats problems comes from keeping gasoline as additional fuel ( Bi-fuel option) . The gasoline has much lower octane rating than LPG and CNG so it do not allow increasing of compression ratios which increase the speed of burning . In South Korea pure LPG cars are used with liquid injection of LPG which even increase the power if compared to equivalent gasoline engine .
The measures to convert gasoline to pure LPG or CNG engines are :
1 . Increasing the compression ratio 12:1 14:1
2. Using high energy ignition systems 100mJ and up per spark discharge and use of double tips iridium spark plugs .
3. Remapping the ignition and fuel maps of the ECU .
4. Replacing the exhaust valves seats with tool steel made ones and if possible use of sodium filled exhaust valves .
There was experimental fuel mix mainly CNG with small amount of hydrogen. Hydrogen burns very fast , ignites by much lower energy spark discharge and accelerate the rate of burning of the mixture so it is another way to solve the problem with slower CNG burning speed.
The more work goes into every step of the process, the cheaper and more effective it gets.
The early days of gasoline, diesel and even electric were not pretty. Took time to get to where it is today, and be as cost-efficient as it is, at scale.
The important thing is to take steps to make that progress, and innovation will follow.
100%. Scale is the biggest factor in price
well i hope this will help save the planet !!🤣
The efficiency will not change though. These are theoritical maximums. You will never be able to gain more efficiently from combustion. Physics says NO!!
Plus why lose half of all your energy turning a transmission, driveshaft and differential when you have a much more efficient example: a hydrogen fuel cell that powers a motor right at the wheel station.
This technology makes no sense.
It is just a pipe dream being pursued by existing engine manufacturers like Cummins to keep themselves in the game.
The writing is in the wall. They need to embrace change and research sensible technologies that have potential, instead of trying to adapt old technology.
@@bubba842 Why can't all these technologies exists simultaneously and then the consumer can make the decision for themselves regarding which type of car they want to buy? They just completed a 24 hour race with the car so the tech makes sense, its just not what you want in your car. Why do you care where Toyota puts their money anyways? If you want the most efficient vehicle, you can go buy that vehicle. Enough with this holier than thou stuff about sensibility and embracing change though, its too cliche.
@@collinhruschka8441 it's called business pal no holier than thou sensibilities. All these technologies will exist to an extent, but for the purpose they are required in.
We will not have multiple technologies competing. Hydrogen fuel cells are cheaper and a lot more efficient than this technology. The vast majority of people will go with what's cheaper and is more efficient. Unfortunately neither of those technologies have an edge on Battery EVs. Yes hydrogen fuel cells will have their place in long distance and off road technologies, but every day people who commute will be driving EVs.
There is room for this in the future in very niche areas, but those areas will not produce the revenue for a mass rollout of this technology to the mainstream, as it's just recycled old technology that will never get past the physics and downsides of combustion.
The infrastructure is not in place for this technology and probably never will be. It will use twice as much hydrogen compared to a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle and will have a tank twice the size of today's gasoline fuel tanks. With that it will cost twice as much to fill up.
I don't see any positives for the average person in using this technology. The only positives will be for legacy engine manufacturers, trying to hold on to a dying industry, hence why they are pushing it.
The nature of the business environment will not allow multiple different technologies to exist all at once.
There are many examples of this in the past. AC vs DC electricity, VHS vs Betamax and HD DVD vs Blu Ray.
A standalone entity will survive, but unfortunately it will not be this hydrogen combustion.
Hydrogen ICE:
-Vroom sounds
-Manual trans
-fast refuel
-powered by explosions
Electric
- silent
-no manual
-slow charging
-not powered by explosions
I hope the downsides of hydrogen ICE get sorted
Hydrogen refueling as it exists now is not fast
You mean the tendency to explode? 🤔
@@thewoode1050 Compressing takes time. My CNG car used to "charging" 30-40 minutes if compressor on filling station was weak. And CNG have only 200 bar, not 700.
Vroom sounds and heat is energy escaping from your ICE without doing any usable work.
@@GgDBXS No, I was referring to the tendency of Hydrogen to form very explosive mixtures with air. So a small leak and very tiny spark can lead to a proper explosion
With the amount of research you do for these video's do you actually have time to sleep? I'm in awe of the amount of work you put into your video's. Thank you.
I love next gen technologies that involve even more moving parts!
Only thing missing is fuses placed in the center of the engine.
Right. I just did a timing job on my Ford 281ci. A lot of work and moving parts. How about a cylinder and some spark with electronic timing?
More moving parts = more jobs 😄
And also use a fuel which isn't actually renewable (electrolysis isn't cost effective, almost all hydrogen is made from oil), green (still has emissions) and in general is just a campaign by fossil fuel and engine manufacturers to avoid becoming irrelevant.
@@squelchedotter that’s nice, thank you for sharing how you feel Thomas
Great explanation. The drawbacks of hydrogen were looked into years ago. The fuel cost alone will deter people from buying a hydrogen car. Then you have the massive infrastructure cost.
Hydrogen use with fuel cell engines is the only absolute solution though. It may be expensive right now; but much better choice than ruining the atmosphere and ruining the Earth. Its emission is water !
@@gokcan83 It is better but better doesn't mean it is viable. Do you think people will be motivated to buy a hydrogen powered car when they learn about the expenses involved? Unless something can be done to reduce cost to a reasonable level this won't take off.
@@abinmmj the US Govt, federal and state, subsidizes the oil and gas industry to the tune of over US$20 BILLION per year. Transfer those subsidies to the hydrogen infrastructure instead, and hydrogen becomes a viable fuel option.....
@@abinmmj Hydrogen will be use for all of Transportation, including semi-trucks, airplanes, cruise ships and powering houses. Don't worry Hydrogen is not going anywhere now
@@ianchandley So you say. Devil's in the details (and line items).
See “Harry’s Garage” interview with JCB & development of hydrogen engines 👍🏻
Yes, great. I can always commute in a 25 ton excavator. Not sure how long it would take but what an entrance and you can make your own parking space.
They left out all disadvantages. Fuel Cell equals less parts and maintance, less profits
@@arnefines2356 and a hugely expensive battery which isn’t getting cheaper any time soon due to the rare Earth metal resource constraint
@@baronvonteuchter1412 Not getting cheaper? Rare earth metals are in fewer and fewer batteries.
@@richardhasler6718 AND ! IF ! THE !! CAR !! PARK !! ISN'T !! BIG !! ENOUGH !! THEN ! YOU ! CAN ! DO !! DEMOLITIONS !! WITH !! IT !! TOO !!
Toyota: WE MUST BURN SOMETHING !
Funny!! I think the engine development teams are feeling the heat from the electric powertrain teams, No pistons, No catalytic converters, No valves, No fuel pumps or injectors, some with no transmissions…, The winner is electric!
Wrong. Toyota: we are trying 3 different routes at the same time because no one else is exploring them!
Toyota already has hybrids and it's pushing battery chemistry forward that will eventually result in solid state batteries, something that it, unlike Tesla, will be able to disseminate widely. It's also one of the few automakers working on fuel cells, which will arguably supersede both batteries and internal combustion engines even when taking emissions into account.
Due to embodied emissions of production, battery EVs have higher life cycle emissions unless they charge from electric grids served primarily by nuclear or hydroelectic power. Even with so-called "renewable" grids, the emissions are produced by backup gas turbines. The end result is that unless a BEV is charged from a low emission grid it will also have a lifetime that is high emission eventually. It's one of the reasons why an electric car is greener when running in one of the Scandinavian countries, because that cross-country grid has a backbone of hydroelectricity from Norway, nuclear power from Sweden and wind power from Denmark. But it's not so green when running in California which burns and fracks gas for most of its energy.
Arguably, the lowest emission vehicle possible is an ammonia fuel cell vehicle using ammonia produced by electricity from a nuclear and hydroelectric grid. That vehicle will be low emissions in operation and embodied in production and disposal. And it would be more fully recyclable, than the carbon fibre composite fuel tanks a hydrogen fuelled vehicle would be. Right now composites are just dumped in landfill, something that Denmark and its kilotons (and in a decade, a megaton) of wind turbine blades are finding out to be a bit of an issue.
MONEY 🤣🤣
@@SyntheticFuture They're too late tbh, the worlds set on electrification by 2030. They and other manufacturers got too comfortable and lazy to innovate when there was still time
I love that most things can be figured out by the numbers first before energy is wasted.
Love when real plans come together in an effort to go into correct direction more expediently.
Nice work and video.
At least they’re trying. ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’.
Good luck ‘trying’ against the laws of physics.
@@duffgaryduff Hydrogen engine doesn't need physic law to win. People need to expose the fact that electric car is dangerous and doesn't make sense on a massive scale. Hydrogen engine doesn't win on science alone. Media and acceptance of petrolhead win hydrogen engine
just make an EV….
@@davidkaplan5517 they already are making hybrids and are making EVs soon. They just want to find other ways of carbon neutrality which everyone should do instead of hopping on the bandwagon because it’s cool. Lmao
@Duncan Macleod lol yes. Let’s build warehouses full of pressurized hydrogen and put giant tanks of it in cars…. Sounds really safe and efficient.
I'd love to see an efficiency comparison between Toyota and Mazda's hydrogen engines
Going to assume Toyota will be better
@@EliteNK same. Unless proven wrong, of course.
In an interview on of the Toyota’s engineer mentioned the whole thing can be scrapped but they wanted to give it a try at the endurance race, Toyota opened the door so it’ll be interesting where it goes from here
Toyota had prepared lean-burn engines as an alternative to catalytic convertors….the precious metals market ensured govts ignored them and introduced the legislation that guaranteed them a huge income and a superb technology got buried. Battery industry are doing the same right now to petroleum products and will destroy their main green competitor hydrogen too.
@Alfred Wedmore Lean burn spark ignition is great for economy and mitigating HC and CO but it does nothing good for NOx. Back when those engines were developed this was ok because the NOx emissions limits were relatively high. Once the requirements for NOx emissions became more strict it became impossible to meet them with lean burn engines, stoichiometric mixture and a 3-way cat was the best approach. As an aside, some modern automotive engines do use lean burn under certain conditions, it's just not applicable across the entire load/speed range.
Just to prove the point, diesels are intrinsically lean burn and thus can't use a 3-way cat. Initially this was allowed for by giving them looser NOx limits (and tighter HC and CO limits, which could be met using an oxidation catalyst) but these days they need the much maligned EGR and SCR systems to meet their NOx limits. A lean burn spark ignition engine would need the same equipment, though depending on the design it might be able to dispense with the DPF that diesels need to prevent soot emissions.
@@nerd1000ify This person spreads truth instead of conspiracy theories. There are plenty of real live conspiracies, no need to go looking so hard for them.
@Alfred Wedmore Wrong. The cats are there to protect the environment. All the sensors and the computers in your car are there to protect your cats! Why? Because the catalytic converter is your last line of defense against the harmful gasses that will destroy your planet.
@Alfred Wedmore Sorry buddy, between you and the environmental nuts out there, I'll stick with them.
Ever since I saw and heard that racecar hydrogen powered corolla I started waiting for your video
I saw Toyota/Yamaha created a 455hp hydrogen engine. Totally reminded me of your channel.
Right now I’m putting all my faith on Toyota more than any other thing in existence
Isnt audi working on a special fuel too. Not hydrogen, but some kind of special gasoline
Bad idea
And Porsche
@@whynot1749 Porsche is building a Efuel production in Chile
@@whynot1749 isn’t Porche too
very cool vid that close to my heart as I am doing a master thesis on an ammonia-based spark-ignition engine.
The first combustion engines were also extremely inefficient.
Over time, ICE H2 engines will become much more efficient.
ICE engine, due to friction, cannot be as efficient as electric motors, I can't help feeling all this effort is misplaced, if you want powerful cars, work on electric motors.
@@chrisp7839 electric cars catch fire, their batteries wear out and are hazardous waste.
@@livinincalifornia ICE vehicles also catch fire, wear out, and are hazardous waste
@@chrisp7839 ICE fires are easily put out. Battery fires burn hot and fast. The lithium in the batteries is extremely toxic and damaging to the environment way more so than an alumnium engine and gasoline. Electric cars are charged using natural gas and coal so they aren't even environmentally friendly at all
@@livinincalifornia Both Hydrogen and BEV card are electric, so the same is true of both, but 3 times as much electricity is used to power a fuel cell car.
Battery production may be limited by shortage of raw materials. Green hydrogen could be a more sustainable source of energy for vehicles.
You use 48 kwh of electric energy to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. With that energy, you can drive 200 miles or 300 km in a Tesla. It's not enough efficient yet. Maximum ideal efficiency is 39 kwh/1 kg of Hydrogen, but not yet reached. For up to 500 km range, I believe that electric is the best option. Plus I can produce my own electricity. Hydrogen is just too much of a hassle. Unless, is really cheap. Probably in 15 years, will be different.
@@gordesmihaela4635 You are assuming right now that windmills or solar panels arent going to get really expensive. We need to have a lot of options on energy, and honestly Hydrogen is just in the beginning phase of creation. EV's make sense for a commuter car. They do not make sense in freight, boating or airplanes. On a larger scale Hydrogen is honestly our best option in fueling the future and also keeping our same lifestyle.
@@gordesmihaela4635 no it isn't they found an easier way they use gallium and tin with room temperature and made hydrogen
You're making a few important assumptions, and missing a few steps. As the video illustrated, hydrogen combustion itself is a dead horse, even with much higher pressure you can't bring enough hydrogen with you for it to be practical, and even at 700bar refilling is already so impractical that for every 7 minute refill, the station has to re-pressurise at least 15 minutes, meaining you can do at most 3 cars/hour/station. Which is less than a fast charger, which has a net higher energy efficiency to boot (not just the hydrogen takes a lot of energy, the infrastructure as well, like compressors, whereas that kind of stuff is minimal on electric). Purely on the rarity of energy alone hydrogen makes little sense.
Another assumption you make is that the material shortage isn't an issue for hydrogen. It is an issue. FCEV's use a boatload. Not only because they essentially are EV's (the fuelcell can't "spike" as hard as a battery can, so every FCEV has a battery to boot, which albeit smaller, is still sizeable), but also because the fuel cell has a lot of rare, expensive materials in it. Heck, it has platina as a frigging consumable.
Considering you can't get 700 bar of hydrogen on your driveway, but you can get AC current which you can easily load balance on top of it, and battery chemistries are not only diverse but constantly evolving (energy density doubled, and LFP is a no-cobalt viable technology already), and considering "vroom" even for hydrogen makes no sense... I'd say hydrogen and sustainable have no mix in personal vehicles.
Fascinating explanation, really enjoyed this! I used to think hydrogen fuel was a no-brainer for sustainability but it's not quite that easy. As usual, thank you for the awesome video! Nicely executed, well articulated.
It's no brainer if you have no brains. Why waste most of the power produced on an inefficient process that roduces an inefficient fuel which which produces insufficient power? Also, you have to carry around two heavy H2 tanks containing the gas at such high pressures that a smile accident can cause them to both explode due to pressure and ignition. Definite death. Even a simple leak in any of the piping is enough to cause trouble, which is bound to haen due to the excessively corrosive property of H2.
Actually you don't need to store hydrogen in tanks. They have developed technology that is far safer. It's been around for quite a while actually. But yes if you just got out of a time machine from the year 2000, then that would make sense.
@@Berkhoi Apart from the points that you have raised, the real problem is that the energy used to compress the hydrogen alone can exceed the calorific value of the fuel. This makes the whole concept virtually pointless. Needless to say, I would not want to live too near to a filling station and tankers delivering hydrogen compressed to an excess of 10,000'psi would be travelling bombs, even without any fire.
Back in WW2, when fuel was short here in the UK, many delivery vans ran on coal gas (97% hydrogen). However, a large leather bladder was fitted onto their roof, to allow direct filling from the town gas supply only pressurised by the gasometer's.
The natural coal tar mix improved combustion and lubrication, but the bladder was almost as large as the van, with a range of between 20 and 30 miles.
PS, the risk of combustion explosions with hydrogen is fairly low compared with LPG. Propane (which is heavier than air) pools and causes fire balls. while Methane diffuses and explodes. Both of these gasses have caused explosions after leaking into below ground sewers.
@@wilsjane the real problem is too many people and pop growth is rising exponentionally !@
What about hydrogen combustion for HGVs, trains, boats and tractors etc. I can see small cars going the electric route but not heavy vehicles. I am impressed by the work JCB are doing here.
I had the same thought - JCB is on the forefront of Hydrogen-Combustion engines for use in heavy machinery
@@Kezenmacher J C Backwards 😁
Double the cost for an EV Car? Very funny!
@@Kezenmacher JCB is garbage.
Kawasaki has marine hydrogen engine for ships. In fact, they have 2 operational liquified hydrogen carrier so far. Their target is 80 ships.
It makes sense if you convert the power grid to nuclear power.
Here in the UK, the planned conversion to electric vehicles will require 10 additional power stations. Plans are to build more wind farms.
However, the grid infrastructure is a far more serious problem and will require extensive upgrades. As recharging becomes faster, charging areas will be supplied from the 11'kV high voltage grid, rather than the low voltage sectors.
At the moment, the government are promoting electric vehicles, since the change over to regenerative AC motors on the railways, along with LED lighting and induction cooker hobs has reduced the grid load quite considerably.
In the future, the government expects to slow down the sale of electric vehicles to keep the electricity requirement in balance.
@@wilsjane Sounds like ride sharing, mass transit and reduced car ownership with Uber, Lyft et c will get a boost. As may thorium reactors for electricity. If personal ICE cars were closed course only, humankind will be playing more video games and gain 100 lbs per person. Not to mention noise, electrical leakage, and fire risk from 11kv lines. Yuk.
@@wilsjane The UK had planned on Ireland to offer green energy but that might go to France now. However the hydrogen dream is not over in the UK, they will be injecting hydrogen into the gas supply network and rolling out hydrogen ready gas burners for home heating. How will they make the hydrogen? probably wind farms at sea that convert the sea directly to hydrogen and dont need any expensive batteries.
@@geroutathat That makes a great deal of sense, avoiding the losses of conveying the electricity inland from offshore wind farms. The oxygen produced by splitting the water will be a valuable biproduct.
Prior to the discovery of natural gas in the 1960s, town gas in the UK was mainly hydrogen, with a small percentage of carbon monoxide. It was produced by heating coal in a vertical retort and the coke then went on to fire the power stations.
The one problem is that hydrogen has a lower calorific value than natural gas, so some upgrades may be needed to the distribution pipework. This is because following the changeover to natural gas, the crumbling cast iron Victorian pipework in the cities was used as ducts to install the natural gas pipes, thus reducing their size by up to 50%.
We may also see a return of the famous gas holders that were used to smooth out the peaks in demand. Possibly the hydrogen will be supplied at higher pressure than previously, avoiding pipework upgrades.
Hydrogen to directly power vehicles is a non starter, simply because it does not liquify. This results in huge energy wastage in compressing the gas for distribution. From production to final use in a vehicle, around 70% of the energy is lost as a result of compression for distribution and into the vehicles fuel tanks.
@@wilsjane EV's are the scam of the century.
They could not be more harmful to the environment.
Countless tons of rare, toxic metals must be strip mined and processed with vast quantities of toxic chemicals in order to manufacture batteries which will become yet another source of various toxic waste streams. Even if these waste batteries are "recycled", doing so will require more toxic chemicals and huge quantities of energy.
The mining and processing of these rare, toxic materials requires vast quantities of energy in remote areas with little to no electrical infrastructure.
We currently do not have enough electricity production in places like California to keep up with the current demand that does not include having EV's replacing gasoline and diesel vehicles. Already high electricity prices will skyrocket as more EV's hit the roads.
Hydrogen is a much better path forward.
Yamaha and Toyota is also develop naturally aspirated v8 2UR-GSE hydrogen engine and it make 450hp @6,800rpm and 540n•m of torque @3,600rpm so it have same power as gasoline 2UR-GSE at slightly lower rpm with slightly more torque that mean your hydrogen engine is gonna feel stronger and better response, so power is not really problem anymore, So only problem with H2ICE for now is NOx emissions , Fuel consumption ,And reliability.
I mean, there’s even more problems with storage: Hydrogen is such a small molecule it diffuses through _anything,_ so while you’re just sitting there, your car is leaking fuel. Also, filling it up is a huge issue, because of multiple reasons:
• it‘s hard to get such a high pressure connection system both reliable, safe and easy enough for regular people to use (the part that is the nozzle on the fuel hose today-in a hydrogen car, it has to be a leak proof interconnect that can hold the 10k PSI, have high pressure valves on both ends of the connection and can still be easily connected/disconnected hundreds of thousands of times),
• it‘s hard to store for the station (needs huge tanks and they are, again, leaky),
• and on top of it all, it‘s ridiculously easy to ignite compared to gas or diesel, so if there IS a leak somewhere, the smallest spark can make your station into a Hindenburg reenactment.
Because of those problems, scientists are working on trying to store it as easy to divide molecules which will make it a bit denser but safer and easier to store.
We have hydrogen tanks that do no leak. Not sure where your getting that
Hydrogen is not exactly terribly dangerous. Diesel and gasoline they are at leaking point. LPG butane is kinda heavy and sticking around in corners.
Hydrogen is lite and really wants to escape upwards. So if you have small continues leak hydrogen is nowhere to be found, let alone burn. If you have big sudden leak than few seconds later it's all gone. It's climbing at few meters per second rate. Just don't have trapping area and no worries.
While H2 Permeation is an issue, it is very time dependent; unless you're trying to store a fixed volume of gas for a long time, the amount lost to permeation would be miniscule when compared to the volume which is used. E10 gasoline suffers from similar long-term storage issues due to water absorption, so the permeation issue is less of a concern than you might think. The bigger issue is closely related, which is maintaining a leak-tight H2 management system (since H2 is far more prone to leaks in fittings and pumps than other compressed gasses).
As for your other issues with the gas handling challenges, there is actually good news: most of those issues have already been addressed by previous compressed gas handling solutions. Compressed natural gas in particular has set most of the engineering standards for dealing with safe and repeatable solutions for the transfer and storage of a compressed flammable gas, so most of the engineering best practices and standard operating procedures for users are already mature.
@@KendallPhillips89 He is just trying to show how big of a nerd he is.
When I was 7/8 years old in the 90's I still remember my technology teacher talking about the possibility of using H1 as fuel source in engines. Amazing.
you were learning technology in the 1st/2nd grade?
@@arianitonline8748 3rd grade, we learned to use tools and build/make things mostly (like recycled paper).
You probably meant H2 I'm assuming; hydrogen is diatomic
Love it when the white board comes out. Great diagrams and clear explanations! Thanks!!
early days, consider what we had for when the batteries (lead acid) and electric motors were at the time. using H2 in a car is still pretty new
normal Carb engines will run hydergen out of the box only needs minor mods to fix backfires
If someone invented gasoline just yesterday it we be labeled a "miracle fuel" just one single gallon contains 33,700 watt/hours or 116,000 btu's of energy.
@Jack K Or even longer
What about running an engine 100% on alcohol? In Brazil, we got ethanol on the gas stations pumps. Ok, it's not 100% ethanol, because its hydrated, so it's a mix of 96% alcohol and 4% of water. Despite the fact that has less power by a same amount, when comparable to gasoline, it's renewable and less harzadous for the environment.
@@ianferreiraian Alcohol based fuels are terrible for the environment, they have a huge amount of knock on pollution. Real engineering has a nice video about it
@@EngineeringNibbles if he thinks ethanol is bad for the environment, then he either didn't do any research on it, or he researched from oil companies rather than the Brazilian ethanol, or by people such as yours truly who produces ethanol and runs several vehicles on it. When you burn ethanol in an engine, be it piston or even jet engines, it actually cleans the air. There is so much erroneous misinformation out there its staggering, and people who know just about nothing about it keep pushing the propaganda.
@@ianferreiraian I do it too, in northern Michigan. I've achieved better mileage on ethanol than on gasoline, while making A LOT MORE power.. not a little bit, a lot more. Can't run gasoline in my ethanol engines though, the high compression and heat will rattle them to death as it spark knocks itself into a thousand pieces. Ethanol makes more power than gasoline, however how much water is still in it affects how much power you get. 10% isn't that bad, 30% will see a big drop in power.
I got into making ethanol and running my old muscle cars on it back in 2007, when gasoline was $5 a gallon here. I am a disabled veteran, so I have a fixed income and cannot earn more. So I have to find ways to save money so I could buy car parts rather than all my cash going to energy.
Tuning for ethanol is very different from gasoline. It will run with a gasoline tune, but you won't get the most out of it in power nor mileage.
Can’t wait to see the tuning potential this hydrogen combustion engine has🔥
Just imagine a car like the bmw hydrogen 7 (6.0L V12 390 Nm, 191 kW) but more performance oriented
@@martini380 To bring back these large N/A engines with Hydrogen combustion would be awesome.
Guys. Don't forget that hydrogen may be clean in the burn, but it's polluting in the making.
So to have a middle way and not be too crazy would be the reasonable way to go.
@@boboutelama5748 everything has some level of pollution. EVs create plenty of environmental issues themselves. The idea is to pollute less than we are now.
@@user-gm4kv2my4u Exactly
I would love for this tech to develop enough to overcome these challenges.
Random af question: Want some science-channel to check out, cause the
learning never ends? I got some.
Why? What's so exciting about hydrogen? You can't just stick a hose up in the air and extract it.
@@mjoet731 the attraction to hydrogen is that its the most common element on the planet and we spend our entire life surrounded by it. It presents a 100 percent renewable source of energy that would never be exhausted and could potentially be produced wherever it needs to be used eliminating all the expense of transportation and distribution. Hydrogen on demand.
The way this guy presents everything is made to convince the listener that it looks promising but somehow it’s just not possible, sorry!
The reality is he is a paid detractor as many people on you tube are. There are many technologies that are possible for the betterment of mankind but some people wish to control the world and if a technology creates freedom for others out of their control then they find every way possible to stop it. One of the most effective ways is to hijack a movement or technology and redirect to more controllable circumstances. It allows for the masses to believe something never went anywhere because it was just inefficient or “uneconomical”. When the truth is it allowed to much freedom from the control of those who benefit from manipulating the population.
Now if they could find a way to profit more off of hydrogen than oil or electric then we will be using hydrogen in the future. But until they find the perfect way to keep control while allowing people to use hydrogen. We won’t see anything but misdirection and manipulation of statistics.
I also saw a video, Harry of Harry’s Garage visited the JCB R&D facility and they claimed combustion hydrogen engines and fuel as extremely viable. Obviously infrastructure and making it work on cars are real issues but it sure sounded a lot better then EV to me!!
Your videos are always out of this world, thank you for encouraging me to be mechanical engineer
Don't forget the VQ engine with the Z/G, especially the rev-up edition. They usually loose at about 1q 1k miles.
I'm sure you have a lot of experience with forums that I don't have, but my 370z burns next to no oil at all! Which is nice, coming from an EP3 Type R
I guess I should have stated DE not HR. The HR fixed a lot of the DE issues. I came from a J30A1 which nearing the end of my driving of that car was burning some amount of oil that I don't remember as that was 8 years ago.
Speak English, we don’t need letter gibberish
@@TKUA11 I'm sorry that you do not know engine models. VQ35DE is the infamous 350z/g35 engine as well as a good chunk of 3.5L engines for Nissan. The VQxxHR was the revamped version. J30A1 was a Honda V6 engine in the Accord.
I love all the comments saying how unpractical and useless this is and how they should just concentrate on building EVs.
Seems that there are just as many EV fan boi's as there are ICE ones, as these were all the same arguments used against the (dire) first generation electric cars.
Ultimately the more different ideas manufacturers can come up with the better.
There are many cases where it seems EVs and electric (at least in it's current form) will not be a suitable replacement.
Thus diversity of innovation is most definitely required, rather than throwing all our eggs in the EV basket.
I write for sustainability publications and I just needed the science on this engine and I needed it quickly - thank you so much for this brilliant video!
You should do a video on using ammonia as fuel for and ICE (or fuel cell). I've seen a bunch of articles about using ammonia produced with renewable energy to store hydrogen eliminating the need for the high pressure tanks.
Don't forget that some decades ago, some said Toyota was shooting their own foot investing in hybrid powertrains. Hydrogen powered cars, could be used in the future as a substitute to Diesel engines, or as a range extender. The Hydrogen combustion engines, could be applied in Motorsports too.
"Imagine you burn a quart of oil every 3000 miles"
Me: *laughs in BMW E46*
I was doing a litre less than 500 in my 330ci
@@RobOnMotors haha that's about the same as mine!
There is a simple solution for the m54 engines that burn oil, "fixed" 4 engines with the same method. At first you need to understand that they run on way to much oil temp. So do 6x an oil change every 2000km with a good 5w40 like the shell helix ultra, got good cleaning capabilities. In those 2000km drive then engine till it on temp and drive it harder, use more rpm and full throttle (that's what they like anyways) of you've done that 6x make an oil change with 5w50 or stay with 5w40 if you're more the person that drives short distances. This cleans the piston rings, also like I said they like to be driven with a lot of full throttle.. m52s shouldn't have that Problem, of they do, just drive them harder and always do short 15 tkm oil interval on all engines.
My 173k mile E46 thankfully doesn’t burn much oil 😂
@@trw8777 just do something about it 🤷🏼♂️
Big problem with every example of a hydrogen engine presented is that it naturally asperated. Using ambiant atmospher to mix with hydrogen gives oxides of nitrogen. To avoid this problem hydrogen injected into the engine as well as oxygen (from an tank or onboard source) will avoid the nitrogen problem. Carbon from lubricants is still a problem but very minimal as stated above.
The fallout series solved all this year's ago. BRING ON NUCLEAR CARS
Went well for them, obviously!
@@FuncleChuck ah, you aren't a man of culture.
@@davidweikle9921 I was thinking if this keyboard warrior wanted a class a nuclear reactor built into his car.. Go thorium... He would get what he deserved...
the nuclear power would fuel an electric motor
Technically it would be possible easily. The problem is shielding. If you want it to build it to regulation, you would get a light tank, not a car. But if you only want it to be reasonably safe, it's probably possible.
Toyota will apparently do absolutely everything to avoid just making electric cars
The engine is the soul of a car
They're going the right way. It will possibly never be economical but it is the way to keep the ice alive for motorsports.
They defend their advantages in ICE reliability compared to other manufacturers
@@joelblanco1800 Pfft. A car without a horse in front of it has no soul at all.
Reliability that's why
I've always wondered, how do you find these things out? Do the manufacturers contact you as a journalist, or do you ask them on your own? Great video!
Probably a mix of both
I've found if you just open enough tabs you can learn all kinds of stuff. It's a mix of both! In this case I'd heard about the engine a while back when they'd announced they were racing it, so I asked Toyota if I could use their engine animation and they sent it. :)
This is Excellent news. I have always wondered why no-one was trying to run Hydrogen in a combustion engine. Thanks for the info.
Peter Ross the impediments which the oil giants have been putting on hydrogen...and electric...vehicles over the last 100 years is absolutely mind-blowing.
At present there is probably too much focus on battery tech + fuel cells but investment is growing for hydrogen combustion as a solution to low-rev, high torque vehicles. I think it is too early to say what the fruit of greater investment will yield on hydrogen combustion but you rightly point out all the challenges - thank you for the informative video !
Every example of HICE for cars I've seen is basically just a gimmick. The only company that actually seems serious about HICE is JCB but I haven't found anything giving numbers to show why it's better than using a fuel cell. You can have big machines on a HFC, Mercedes are developing a truck based on HFC.
@@adrianthoroughgood1191 fuel cells use very expensive catalysts (platinum, palladium etc). These are way more experience than lithium and cobalt.
By using HICE you are basically foregoing efficiency (hydrogen production, transportation and storage) but by using mature ice technology consumers have to pay less upfront. Also scaling the production of hydrogen is easier than scaling the battery capacity.
It would be an excellent solution for container ships!
Oh yes and with all of those hydrogen filling stations in my town I will be set.
@18 RLX Vibrant 7 DCT do you even know what "liberal" means? They can only be against taxes. Maybe you meant leftists or socialists etc.
By your logic we shouldn’t do nothing? Glad you aren’t in control
@@riba2233 Well there's no functional liberal party currently. It seemingly being wholly roped along by the leftists like it's would-be constituents. At the moment, at least to the casual observer and in the pragmatic sense, it seems the terms are interchangeable.
Water .uses water
@@user-lw1cf9wr1m Was that a double negative? 'Do nothing', or 'not do nothing' (which is the same as 'do something')
Toyota needs to invest in hydrogen filling stations if they really want hydrogen to succeed
why would they? nobody is buying H2 cars even where there are filling stations. BEV are so superior that H2 cars are dead.
@@feandil666 you'll say the same with gasoline cars if I asked you. Just give them hope man!!
Toyota: but but but why we didn’t need to spend on gas stations …. 😭
@@feandil666 if you're talking about places like California- nope- yeah sure there are "a lot" of filling stations but not enough to make having a h2 car seamless, not every city has a station and the gap between locations makes it simply unfeasible even if you really wanted to
@@princeplotena and with a battery vehicle you don't even need fueling stations, and the electric grid is everywhere if you do. hydrogen is such an inferior technology I really feel like there is a Toyota director that really, really, don't want to lose his job
It's insane to think that it's only been like 4 ish months since this video and Mercedes is already making a prototype for a hydrogen semi truck.
Hydrogen might make more sense in a semi-truck because you have so much more available space to store hydrogen.
Also, the added weight is much less of an issue in a large vehicle.
MB already had this but as mentioned, where's the fuel infrastructure? Not that this should inhibit ownership.
The Mercedes hydrogen truck is using a fuel cell to power electric motors, not an ICE engine as in this video. They have gone for liquid hydrogen to get more in the tank and are using double skinned tanks with vacuum between them to keep the hydrogen at cryogenic temperatures.
@@franklinblunt69 I believe the more relevant question is will there be a hydrogen infrastructure? If there will be then that's fine. The current power grid would need to be revamped in order to support an overhaul of the transit system to fully electric.
@@silo3com there could easily be. I feel like this RUclips channel fanboys over EVs
I've said for some time now: I want a V8 hydrogen sports sedan.
It doesn't matter what you want. I want a hydrogen electric vehicle that's a sports car. Not going to happen anytime soon.
@@bobfg3130 I'm a consumer. Feed my demand.
You can buy a H2 fuel cell vehicle if you so demand it. You just have to move to a limited part of California, or Japan.
@@Siegetower
Why? Because you want to? 😆 Get hundreds of thousands of consumers that want one and can afford an expensive car and you have a deal.
@@bobfg3130 What makes it expensive? Economies of scale makes everything affordable to the point that consumers will buy it. A petrol V8 engine is not much more expensive than a flat 4 cylinder, notwithstanding you need 8 valves and spark plugs and conrods compared to 4. It's marketing because it's a subjectively better product, that has allowed cars with V8s to be put on the market at prices higher than other cars.
In the new world, including my own country until recently, V8's are not expensive, they're an engine powering cars of the working class. Which thanks to economies of scale, are not really expensive.
@@Siegetower
New technology, esearch and development, the type of car, materials, etc.. No, economies of scale don't make everything affordable. There's a limit to what economies of scale can achieve. If economies of scale would have been so great BMWs wouldn't be so expensive. A V8 is going to be larger, have more moving parts and generate more power...and torque. It's going to be more expensive than an I4. It's not marketing. If you have more moving parts, a larger engine, etc. that actually justifies the larger price. Also, new technologies have few experts and technicians that can work with them.
So V8s were not expensive? We will go with what you say, still I4s were cheaper. Economies of scale don't solve everything. Most of the working class probably never considered V8s cheap. The working class that could afford a V8 could afford expensive brands. Basically, they weren't that much of a working class anymore.
Yes, that car you want will be expensive. When you put billions of dollars in research and development you want them back. Production is going to be expensive because the technicians will be hard to find and hard to keep.
One quart of oil consumption every 3000 miles?
Me: laughs in toyota
I hate to break it to you
2:10 Thanks for mentioning the pressure in bar as well! I'm always puzzled when I hear PSI and don't know how much that is.
True that! Us metric folk have a hard time dealing with imperial units. Don't forget most of the modern world has gone metric for a reason. :-)
@@Zgurkogel Pa is the SI unit for pressure.
😉
First of all, the high efficiency of the fuel cell comes from a long R&D process which took place over the course of several decades. I would not be surprised if the HCCI engine (which already is at 45% efficiency) could go through the same process, perhaps even with a better efficiency than the fuel cell at the end of it.
Then, the hydrogen can probably be produced using solar-powered thermal reactions in countries with high temperatures; I imagine a future in which countries which now produce oil instead produce hydrogen, which has the advantage of being able to be shipped to other nations as an energy source. (Note that the U. S. and China would be some of these countries, as would be Spain.)
Thirdly, the large tank size, as well as the 4h refilling time, can be remedied by exchanging the entire tank at refilling stations. This will reduce the total refilling time 7-fold.
Well said. From what it sounds like formula one will be almost zero emission by 2030, and in order to do that there needs to be an abundance of wind and solar energy to pull hydrogen from water and then to store and ship.
Solar lmao
@@mikebunting847 not really they found a way to make hydrogen by using gallium and tin in water
Let’s not forget all the maintenance benefits have in EV’s vs any type of combustion engine. Oil changes. Heat. Wear and tear. Transmissions. NONE of which are an issue with an EV.
Thermodynamics.
It takes more energy to create the hydrogen than we get out of it.
Gasoline and diesel are used for a reason. Sun stored energy in plants and that is consumed when we burn fuel.
Just use the power in an EV, lets face it, fossil fuel vehicles have had their day.
Ah, someone with a brain! Refreshing.
* [Mazda Rotary Has Joined The Chat!] *
Mazda Rotary : Blow-by you say? Zoom Zoom?
-edit- Very informative as usual Prof. Fenske! 👍👍
you talking about rotary engines makes me remember about when mazda actually sold rx8s with a hydrogen powered rotary engine and it actually works well
@@orlmont hydrogen leaks ,really bad
Stanley Myers did this back in the 80's. He was able to separate the hydrogen in the water and then it was flowed into a combustion engine. But back then oil was king and Stanley was killed mysteriously before his invention went mainstream. I saw another system in the 90's that made hydrogen from water in your garage and you pumped it into tanks in your truck.
Check out my earlier post. Friend of mine did this with his V8, worked O.K. But the internals of his engine were junked after 12 months from the water acids caused from combustion. He was rightfully upset.
Over the past 100 years there were four successful attempts at building a hydrogen powered engine. All you had to do was fill the tank from your garden hose and the only emissions were water vapor. All inventors met mysterious ends. So over the last 15 years we've been wondering how the oil companies and governments will be able to get their cut from this technology.....and they are
Free energy on a Prison Planet can not be a good idea for the powers controlling it…
Hydrogen engines are the future in regards to cost, maintenance and impact on environment. In particular the environmental impact is better with Hydrogen engine... plus we already have thousands of petrol stations and it would be easy to convert pumps to deliver Hydrogen ....hence the infrastructure is already there... I do hope Hydrogen technology is given the backing by governments it deserves...
In the future yes, even in western powers like the EU (they declared the intention of building a hydrogen based economy)
The korean and japanese are already interested in hydrogen technologies because normal EVs are not good for them cost and space wise and geopolitics wise
The current ev craze is a ploy for money transfer, and control, also an attempt to diminish the importance of middle east resources
Great work Toyota! I can’t imagine a future without the sound of beautiful ICE!
Or just use bio fuel? Does’t have to be that complicated. Plus for daily driving, electric cars are way better.
Biofuel like ethanol or biodiesel is not viable at larger scale sadly plus it’s always blend with a bit of 95 octane about 30 %
So by an ICE and put it in your living room.
@@felipetooficial thanks for your amazing advice.... 🤦♂️
@@felipetooficial don’t talk if u don’t know what your talking about your opinion is careless
An interesting hydrogen combustion technology is that of KEYOU. This company converts diesel engines to HICE engines. With these engines they reach efficiencies of nearly 50% with the use of EGR, lean combustion and high boost pressures. A nice development to follow, because emmissions are nearly zero
Very, very, useful information. There's a lot of misconceptions on the internet about how "easy" it would be to convert an existing ICE to run on hydrogen, but this video is one of very few that actually delves into the specifics and well as pro's and con's vs. hydrogen cells. As always, great work Jason.
Hydrogen is the future as battery tech is landfill unfriendly and dangerous.
So what you’re saying is, in order to get decent horsepower we’d need something to increase pressure in the cylinders?
*salivates in 450 psi of forced induction*
Do people even appreciate the danger of having high pressure tanks near them? Double that for high pressure Hydrohen tanks? Those are bombs, actual Hollywood style explosions should be possible from cars falling down or maybe even bullets hitting them at the right place. High pressure hydrogen bomb, yeah, sounds safe to drive on the roads.
@@romanmir01 some are aware of that, yes.
@@romanmir01 taxi cabs have been driving round with propane tanks for decades with very few incidents.
@@romanmir01 and lithium is perfectly safe
@@romanmir01 Overemphasis on safety concerns have ruined the past two decades, so I’m all for a little danger.
Could you imagine how much more often it would rain in really congested cities? All that H20 emissions. Haha
Low temperatures ❤️
Less droughts but more rain, actually thats a really good thing, more traffic in an area makes it more livable. Reverse desertification
Dry countries: this sounds like an absolute win.
@@stormveil
Normal countries: That sounds like an absolute loss.
Wet countries: It doesn't matter.
The side effect will be 100% humidity everywhere.
California could use that LOL
And rusted out internal ICE engines.
Good for my respiratory system. Still I think hydrogen is inefficient and doesn't have future, but we can dream.
The environmental effects would be catastrophic.
water vapor is a potent greenhouse gas.
Why not focus on ammonia combustion engine conversion instead of hydrogen. Also green emissions, easier conversion and safer fuel storage compared to hydrogen. Ammonia was used as the fuel for the X15 test flights back in the 60s?
I've researched hydrogen combustion engines for a few years and I can't believe that so few car enthusiasts know about it, Hyundai was working with it for some time and now Toyota! The future of enthusiasts car is not electric, and even if it is, we will still be able to drive out childhood dream cars with all the beautiful noise we love!
Enthusiasts will move to ethanol as producing it is mostly carbon neutral. Hydrogen sucks as a fuel.
200 thousand miles: 200kmi. Getting closer. Just an "i" away from sanity.
Yep getting there slowly but inevitably! He's been using more metric and SI in his presentations which makes conversions much easier.
200 imaginary kilometers
Hydrogen combustion can use relatively "dirty" H2 vs Fuel Cells which will foul
Yeah, but electronysis doesn't produce dirty hydrogen. Methane reforming does. And we need to get away from methane reforming for any of this to make sense...
@@Validole there are catalyst being looked at that can produce hydrogen. Imagine being stuck I'm the middle of nowhere and you fill a tank with river water and drop a tablet into your emergency tank, next thing you know you are on the road again. We produce lots of biowaste that we could potentially convert to less harmful forms for a neutral source of hydrogen.
@@Validole Ooohh. I was wondering how you got "dirty" hydrogen. Hydrogen is so happy to float above the water I didn't see how it was possible.
As i'm sure you are aware electrolysis produces both oxygen and hydrogen, I wonder if its possible to make an engine that runs by combusting the mixture directly. For example you have an O2 and H tank in the car and mix them in the cylinder at the correct ratio. Chances are I'm talking nonsense but just a wild idea.
I have aquired a eficiency level of 50% a 60% with best reactors. We Have (I and my group) 50% consum reduction of gasoline, and more than 90% reducing emissions. The blind peoples say this is not possible, they say that we are crazy. Crazy is anyone that not makes HHO use, then we make a silent revolution. I like your explantion. Congratulations