I travel to Lynn regularly for work. Sadly no direct rail route from where I live in Norfolk, so I have to drive. I do take the train to London via Ely when I’m working there - so know the Route well. It’s an interesting town, not without its problems given the economy. But it is a lovely old town. Listen to Mark Steel’s in Town when he went there - very amusing.
King's Lynn has a long commercial history with the ports on the continent dating back to the 13th century. The lovely countryside reminds me of Flanders and the Netherlands. I wonder if the people who designed these seats are regular train travellers?! Thanks for the pleasant journey and interesting comments!🚉❤f
I've been on a train that used the Ely West curve I believe. The Norwich to Nottingham service usually reverses at Ely but there was a fault with the rear carriage cabin so we weren't able to stop there, and we used the curve to continue on towards Peterborough. The conductor described it as an 'unusual manoeuvre'
A company selling two standards of a product - one for over 50% more than the other - with no benefit of paying the extra? There a legal term for that. Starts with "F". Ends in "raud".
They are basically charging extra for a guaranteed seat between Cambridge and London - some people might deem that worth it at peak times, but it is a bit ridiculous...
@ChilternTransportProductionsto be honest, the UK is one of only a few countries where there is additional service in 1st class, you might get service at your seat in Germany, but it's not complimentary, and even then you are likely served faster if you go to the buffer car yourself. In Italy or Denmark, you can get a drink and sometimes even a small snack, but in DK it's mostly self-service. The main reason for 1st on commuter trains is the higher chance for a seat, the slightly quieter atmosphere, because it's mostly avoided by families or other travellers who tend to be a bit louder. That said, 1st is generally only 50% more expensive, often even less.
Very interesting and informative presentation. I intend to visit Ely this year, a very attractive town centre. As for the 387s, the seats are unsuitable for such a long distance ride, whether in first or standard class. And many of the Great Northern sets appear to have a problem with vibrations, particularly over the bogies, shaking rapidly from side to side at speed. I'm not sure what's causing this but it almost feels like the bogies are 'hunting.' But I'm glad you had a pleasant journey.
Have a great time in Ely. It's a very long time since I've been there (not including this breeze through on the train). It was pleasant enough, but it isn't really an InterCity train in any sense of the word. Thanks for watching and adding your thoughts on the trains 👍
The crossing keepers house at Stow Bardolph was occupied by the crossing keeper until he was almost 90, it was empty for a while but then purchased by an enthusiast who placed half a pacer around the back.
Ah thanks very much for that. I suppose that partially answers the question about why the Pacer is there... although still doesn't answer the question "but why would they buy half a Pacer and stick it in the garden?" . Mind you, might be a useful garden room, guest annex or a wacky place to keep your model railway... Thanks for watching 👍
I've been on 1st class on Avanti, XC etc. but those don't compare to this! Wow! What a steal - might have to try it myself! Sadly though, first class is really just to guarantee a seat - not that it's inspected I'm sure. Been to Ely & Cambridge before, absolutely love both of them! Great video as always!
Thanks. Very kind as always. It is not good that there are so little benefits to what is still quite a premium price (unless you've blagged on with an Interrail ticket!) Best wishes for you and your new videos 👍
I travel on this line regularly, albeit only from Ely to Kings Cross, and I can confirm that the benefit of first class is... I’m still looking. To cap it all, there are no ticket checks on their train, so if you want a first class seat you can do it without paying. Oh, and bring a handkerchief with you to drape over the seat for that truly first class feeling.😂
Haha! Yes! The vertical moquette combined with a handkerchief acting as an antimacassar would surely make you feel like you were a king riding the royal train... what luxury... 😉
1:48 one of the saddest things about Lynn’s railway station was the closing of the dock branch in 1994. Up to then most of the port traffic went out by rail now everything has to go by juggernaut which is a nightmare for the residents of west Norfolk as it just clogs up the A47 and A10 roads.
I'm sorry to hear that... it seems that a lot of things that went to road in the 20th century may well be returning to rail on the post-climate change 21st century. Or at least we can hope... Thanks for watching 👍
Nice video! I do this route on my commute most days. I don't mind the 387s; I wouldn't mind some padding on the seats, but the arm-level heaters are very nice in the winter. The 700s that fill in the half-hour gaps in the morning peak, on the other hand...well don't get me started on those. Oh well, I live in a tiny village and get a fast 8-car electric train so I don't think I really have that much to complain about. Cheers!
Yes, I think that "having a train service" thing trumps any moans about the rolling stock. The same's true where I am in Topsham. when a Class 150 rolls in I sigh a bit, but mostly I'm pleased there's a station and a train service! Thanks for watching 👍
Good shots of Lynn and the station. I remember when there was a proper mainline service to Lynn from Liverpool street. What we have now is a commuter train. How did this happen?
I dunno - it is a little bit sad. but at least they do have an hourly service to London still... Best wishes to you Colin. btw next week I'm on the ferry from Hoek van Holland to Harwich... spoiler... I mention getting. a beer at least twice but end up with a red wine... who am I turning into?
This is my local line (nearest one a that wasn't closed by Beeching or Castle, anyway). KL station is very nice with its retro feel. It's not a bad service, with hourly trains, but if the Ely junction upgrade can get its funding (with what's left after TfL have had their cash) then there is a chance that there may be a half hourly service. Good advice about the "First" class and I am sure that people will not waste there money after seeing this.
@@JohnResalbEly is a 3 platform through station, so trains from Lynn to London are not affected, but trains from Norwich to Peterborough, Liverpool etc. do have to reverse there, so that is probably what you remember. I have actually changed to one of the reversing trains to reach Grantham a couple of years ago. The Ely problem is mainly of capacity, with the single lines through Soham from the East, Northwards to Lynn and the junctions around the North of Ely. It is actually quite a busy station with both passenger and freight trains
@@JohnnyHooverTravels how many millions PER DAY do they spend on hotel accomodation plus living expenses for the never ending stream of illegal immigrants.? I have thought for a long time that all those rail projects you mention, could easily be taken care of, PLUS high speed which will be a total white elephant so long as it only starts in suburban London and finishes just in Birmingham.! And can you imagine what the ticket price will be, while West Midlands Trains offer a bargain ticket for a journey starting from CENTRAL London, and taking just 20 minutes or so longer.
Thanks. Very kind. Picked up a light injury playing american football on Sunday (no, I wasn't in the Superbowl) but should be able to train and stretch it this week to be ready again for more this weekend. I hope the video found you well. Best wishes from Devon 👍
Hi Johnny, another great video. I travelled along that route just over 3 weeks ago, albeit between Ely and Kings Cross. My train was a pair of 387s but I think it was a different sub class as the seats weren't the "ironing board" types as featured in your video. .In answer to your question regarding passenger services using the Ely West Curve, EMR's 1554 Norwich to Manchester Piccadilly on a Sunday is normally routed that way running non stop from Thetford to Peterborough. Kings Lynn still has an old favourite of mine in the town centre, a Wimpy restaurant.
Maybe I need to organise a trip to Norwich that ends around lunchtime on a Sunday so I can then go on to Manchester on this quirky ride! Needs to happen in the summer or else it will mostly be in the dark though. Thanks for that, and thanks for watching too 👍
I only found your site today and am enjoying it greatly. Your presentation, rail knowledge, filming and editing is excellent. I have followed several supposed rail enthusiasts on RUclips, who become boring very quickly. Your work is great Johnny, I will be back for more, thank you so much.
All that is lovely of you to say. If you are up for it, there's a playlist of every video in the chronological order of the journeys - there's a lot now, but you might be up for the challenge 😉 Comments like yours are the ones that really keep me going at this - Thank you 👍
Yes. I went from Cambridge to Welwyn daily. It was packed. I also tried the Leeds-Ely-Cambridge. It took a long time. My girlfriend went to the loo six times. Now, that is the way to count time.
I thought you were still in the Netherlands, no? 🤷🏼♂️ Just realised despite having lived in Norfolk for 25 years, I have never been to Lynn station. Love the restoration job. Downham Market too in a weird 80s hair metal kind of way. That first class product really is something else! No wait, actually, it’s not something else, is it? 😂 Great stuff cheers!
The travel was all in December (so sometimes I don't edit/release the trips in chronological order) - I will be back in Rotterdam on Friday's video. I didn't video it (because there were a lot of people that didn't need a camera in their face) but the interior of the café was also wonderful and the lady behind the counter made a very good cup of coffee! worth a trip to Lynn for that! Oh, and the 1st class? It was SO different. Surely you noticed that I clearly showed how the moquette on 1st class was a vertical pattern, whilst 2nd/std was horizontal... definitely worth paying 50% extra for... 🤦♂ Thanks for keeping with the channel - best wishes to Norfolk from Devon 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels It's all about the angle of moquette! FWIW I should point out that East Anglia was in a former life and I've been living in Brooklyn NYC for the past quarter of a century. Trying to figure out a way back to the UK, not least because both the trains and the architecture here are garbage. FWIW, I'm planning an Interail trip of my own for 18 days in Mar/Apr, a lot of which is inspired by your travels. So a huge thanks! 😎
@@horsehollerer you are very welcome. I'm back out on Interrail in March/April. March around Switzerland and April thinking maybe Italy. We may bump into each other!
Awesome. Yes, I'm exploring an ambitious schedule that will likely include a bit of Swiss Alps and a stopover in Trieste on the way to Slovenia. I'll get the beers in! 😎 @@JohnnyHooverTravels
Lovely video!! I live in Waterbeach and have used this train my whole life, relying on it for journeys to Cambridge and London. It feels very lucky to have a regular train that runs so quickly to London from a random small village almost non-stop! I have a lot of love for Great Northern despite the insane pricing
Nice to hear your point of view. I know we moan a lot about the quality of trains and the standard of such things as the seating, but really the most important thing is to have a regular, reliable train! Thank for the kind comment. Much appreciated 👍
I recognize this is a rather regular and mundane service to most people, which is fair. To me however this service has a touch of magic to it, I associate it with the pent up excitement of visiting Burnham Overy Staithe and beyond, onwards from King's Lynn - or dreamy sigh of leaving. I've done two such return journeys in my life and expect to do more. Initially as a literary tourist, taking interest in the setting of the Joan G. Robinson novel When Marnie Was There, but now I have a general admiration for the North Norfolk coast. Fantastic video, good to know the ins-and-outs of this journey. Last time I returned from Lynn's, when stopping at Waterbeach one of a group of people commented, "Waterbeach? I don't see water nor a beach."
@@anjum5831 it's nice to hear a different perspective. All journeys can indeed be magical, that's certainly why i travel. Thanks for the kind words too 👍
Never been to King’s Lynn in my entire life. I have heard that King’s Lynn is very nice. Plus Great Northern have brought the Class 379s that are due to enter service sometime later this year.
@@Andrewjg_89 Yes, King's Lynn seemed pretty nice to me, although it was a bit of a wet day, so i didn't see it at its best! The station and the buffet are particularly good though! Thanks for watching another 👍
Vancouver Canada is not the only city named after that British sailor. He also gave his name to Vancouver, WA USA. Amtrak trains serve both cities on the same line.
That does appear to be the case. I know people will pay a premium to help to guarantee a seat and generally less crowding, but it should not be the ONLY benefit... Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Agreed . Would personally lower the premium and rename it plus seating or something. Maybe an increase in phone charging points as well.
Good, interesting video. I am always interested in how full a train is... it is relevant when price is discussed because occupancy indicates whether or not the price reflects people's willingness or ability to pay.
That First Class is pitched at mug buyers, Great Northern's mission statement "never give a sucker an even break". I like the 1950's themed Kings Lynn Station. Thanks for another good vid 👍
They've done a lovely job at King's Lynn Station, haven't they. I find it amazing in these days of corporate conformity that the railways buck the trend and respect their heritage. I believe that GWR is particularly dedicated to that.
The 387s are less comfortable and ride much worse at speed than the 365s that used to operate that service. The 365s 1st Class actually looked comfy as well. Just look at images of it
The upside is that great northern is getting the class 379s, which have actually decent first class seating. Hope they don't just rip it all out in favour of crappy ironing board seating!
Totally agree first class isn't worth it. I travelled from Ely to Kings Lynn in the summer and found the ride quality very poor, but I put it down to the track rather than the unit.
Great video Johnny! The only time i buy first class is if get a good deal on Avanti or LNER as they're the only companies who provide a full meal service!
GWR and TfW also provide a Pullman dining service, but it does come with an additional charge, but for GWR you don't have to have a first class ticket.
I did get the Pullman dining on a std ticket on GWR last year, but it was mostly covered by 1st Class ticket holders so only a couple of us at the front of the queue made it in! Lovely bit of luxury on the train back to Devon mind you 😎
This rolling stock was originally assigned to Southern, hence the colour scheme being the same and the’Great Northern’ name on the carriages being a vinyl sticker that masks the areas where previously it said Southern. Note the red and white train at 11:55, which also runs this route. The red carriages are branded Gatwick Express, but now operate on the line featured in this video. Just recently some dark green stock has joined this route, being ex-GWR.
Thanks for that. The UK domestic "all liner" is at least DOUBLE the price per day. So much so, I calculated that if you buy each of the main regions and travel them back to back, the price would be hardly greater than the "all liner". AND you have a total validity of about six weeks compared to just two weeks on the all liner.!! AND you get "days-off" options within the period.
I used the service for a short notice return trip from Hampshire to Kings Lynn four years ago. It only costs me £80 which I thought very good value for money - mind you i did travel second class. .
My regular commute from Ely to KGX. The only part of the old 365s I miss is the seating; balanced out in the 387s by the effective air conditioning. The 365s were horrendous in summer so not missed by me.
Yes, i know the subject of the video was around what a rip off the 1st class was, but you are right. On a regular commute, a hot stuffy train is awful and so good a/c can be a real winner! Thanks for watching 👍
These trains are ex-Southern. The announcement at 8:45 originally said “welcome aboard this Southern service …”. When the stock transferred to the ridiculously named ‘Great Northern’ (it is not Northern, and is very far from Great), they edited out the word Southern but did not have enough space for Great Northern, so just left it as it is. As you say, it sounds as if she is saying ‘welcome aboard this service …(if you can call it that …). It’s considered by GN to be good enough for the bog-trotters of West Norfolk, - being the same people who voted for Liz Truss to be their MP!
I couldnt believe the price so i thought i would check. Yep, 40 quid in standard though there seemed to be some odd pricepoints where you can change twice and get it for 29. So much for the Government simplifying fares..
Wait until you buy a first class seat on Scotrail for what you think is an HST, then it’s replaced with a 170… that has a reclining seat and a table lamp. 😂😂
The Class 387s were ordered and specified by the Department for Transport, hence the ironing board seats (no expense spared) and lack of anything that could be described as 1st Class, they replaced the more comfortable Class 365 which in turn replaced the Class 317 and that's progress ????
We visited Kings Lynn and found it an interesting place. It has a very good shopping centre with many independents. We have class 387s on the Paddington to Didcot line and they are good to ride on despite the hard seats. I used to commute from London to Huntington on those awful Thameslink trains with the ironing board seats before discovering the declassified first coach with extra padding, a table, power sockets and wifi. All for a 2nd class fare.
Yes. Regardless of the pros and cons of the train (and its first class) it was a pleasure to visit King's Lynn. There's currently Class 166s on my local line with declassified 1st. Always good to get a nicer seat! Thanks for watching 👍
Further North, up in Lincolnshire was where my forebears came over from The Netherlands to drain the land about 400 years ago! On the south side of the Humber estuary there is a town called "New Holland" - oh, and thanks for watching 👍
First class is becoming merely an option to avoid busy rush-hours. Having the same comfort allows the train operator to extend or diminish the amount of first class seating, at a whim. Now, something that interested me much more in your video - how did you manage to use Interarail in your home country.? Is it something new that I am not aware of ?
Interrail Global Pass: You are permitted to use the global pass in your country of residence for two days of the period of validity. I had a "10 days in 2 months" ticket, which meant I could use the ticket in the UK for two days. Interrail refer to this as an outbound and an inbound day, although you may not actually be using it to leave or enter the country. It is worth reading up on the Interrail ticket on the ManinSeat61 website. It can be very handy indeed. thanks for watching and for the question 👍
For a 1st class ( LUNATIC ? ) rail journey , you would have taken the ( 2002 ! ) Crosslink ( Anglia train ) from Basingstoke to Norwich ( Eh ? ) , via Woking , Addlestone . Syon park , Willesden Junction , Dalston , Stratford , Ingatestone etc ... ( but NOT if you needed a speedy trip ! ) ..... Ha - Ha ............ DAVE™🛑
Yes -South Western Railway's awful Class 444 Desiro EMU's which operate between London Waterloo and Portsmouth Harbour! First Class seating was downgraded from 2+1 to 2+2 so they could cram more passengers into a smaller space but charge them more for their travel tickets! Southern's Class 377's are just as bad with essentially no product differentiation between First Class and Standard Class in return for a 50% premium on the ticket price!
Hello there I used to use these a lot but London not much mainly just between Ely & cam ticket was never checked on the train was yours between Lynn & London ?
There was never a business case for extending the 25kV OLE electrification scheme north of Cambridge - any more than there was for extending the 850 Volt Third Rail electrification west of Poole - but Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's anti-rail Tory government made the GBP 40 million available in 1989 and electric trains started running to King's Lynn just three years later. So now the residents of the coastal communities of Weymouth and King's Lynn both enjoy hourly, high-quality electric train commuter services to the capital, which could never have been justified on purely economic grounds, thanks to the same, anti-rail Conservative government which signed off the Total Route Modernisation of the Chiltern Main Line from London Marylebone to Birmingham Snow Hill.
Yes. Interesting to compare current govt with Thatcher's. This lot are far more anti public services. But in a democracy you get the govt that the majority votes for. So it is hard to be completely grumpy about it 🤷♂️
I wonder if they made it a proper 1st class when the Queen used to use the service regularly going to Sandringham. I think the status of 'second class' was dropped decades ago. Just sayin' [edit: I note you refer to Standard class later in the video]
You think that's bad? Years ago I went to an interview in Lancashire from Kent. The job centre paid. They gave me a rail warrant like the armed forces get. The most expensive open return ticket money could buy. This was in 2010. £450!!!!!
I went to Kings Lynn in December 🙂. Despite growing up not too far away, I'd never been before. Weather was the same as yours, grey and bleak, a wonderful way to spend NYE afternoon! Also went from Cambridge to Kings Cross, can't say I enjoyed it as I was meant to be going to Stansted! Mad dash for the last train to Scotland! Technically not THE last train, there was the sleeper but....no I'd never been to Ely either, it was very nice 🙂
It is funny that when we grow up somewhere we don't go around the county all that much. As a kid in Leicestershire I just went to school and mucked about with my mates. Why would I visit other local towns? Recently my sister an I had to go to Hinkley. In over 60 years, neither of us had ever had a reason to go there... Thanks for watching and sharing your experiences 👍
When you go on your regional rovers, on M-F if you need to start before 9am (it probably won't be every day, anyway), just simply buy the excess required to take to up to about 9am. It's STILL much cheaper than the all liner. Upon doing some research, we calculated that the only area where you can score with the all liner is if you're making trips from London and the South East area, especially before 9am (where prices are extortionate).
Thanks for that - and yes, I've done that paying for a single to cover the first few stops when the train leaves before the validity of the rover ticket!
You know what, just get rid of first class on these types of routes in my opinion first class should only be on intercity routes like LNER and Avanti ect since at least with first class on those routes at least you get food included with the Ticket!
I disagree, the main attraction to 1st is the higher chance of a seat during rush hours, I'd gladly pay a little more for that probability. Yes, during the quieter hours, it's mostly useless, but that's also when it doesn't matter as much that part of the train is rather empty, because there's enough seating elsewhere. Maybe the price difference shouldn't be as high (this could maybe justify a 25-30% price bump, not 50%), but overall, I'm in favour of keeping 1st, even on local services. Calling it business instead might be a bad call, as the few railway companies in Europe who use the designation use it rather confusingly for a comfort level higher than 1st (ÖBB, ČD, Trenitalia...). Business are the handful of 1+1 seating, often with full recline, in Railjets and Frecciarossas, 1st class is mostly 1+2.
I think I was on the wrong side of the train to notice much of that to be honest. Best nice when that east/west line comes on stream though. Thanks for watching 👍
there are still the occasional norwich to liverpool emr trains that use the ely west curve but they are ghost trains im not sure of the time or head code but i will find it
@@FinnMaclennan ah - well I quite fancied doing one of those long distance EMR trains out of Norwich (Manchester or Liverpool), so maybe that should be the one for me! Thanks 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravelsI'd take a cushion if you do the full trip on a 158 - I did Liverpool to Grantham recently and not very comfortable after several hours!
The answer to your question is 2 words- British Rail (or 5 if you include Network South East). If you can ignore the lies constantly put out by successive governments (tory, including "new labour"), then it is apparent that that British Rail was actually very good at getting things done on time and within budget. Compare the size of the overhead masts on this line with the Forth Bridge equivalent installed on the GW main line. The original service was only to Liverpool Street, but when the funds became available, the infill wiring from Royston to the East Coast main line was completed for the service to King's Cross to begin.
It's got to be up to standard just in case the Royal train is ever used to Sandringham again like it used to be! All the road potholes get filled very quickly too!! 🧐😄
@@johntyjpElizabeth always used the normal service train to Lynn, first class of course, but Mr. Save the planet, Charles goes by helicopter, so I doubt if he even knows what a pothole is.
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Exactly, why can’t more lines be electrified if this one is. The Midland mainline, the Chiltern line. They are busy lines that are still running diesel trains.
I remember the Kings Lynn London service being loco hauled with a buffet car. Admittedly to Liverpool Street. As a 1st class offering this is pretty poor.
How can they possibly justify selling that as 1st class? It's a joke. I can recall when this route was operated by loco hauled inter-city stock prior to electrification with real 1st class.
Great Northern could have had the Class 379 Electrostar and upgrade them to 110mph (177km/h). The Class 387s are very good trains and have excellent speed.
@@JohnnyHooverTravels It's the same on greater anglia. All you get for a first class fare is a paper napkin on the top of the seat. Europe is way ahead of us with their train cabin qualities, and some are quite old as well.
@@doveronefoxtrot4417 - What? Not even a complimentary biscuit and cup of coffee? You get a freshly-cooked hot meal for free in First Class on some of LNER's inter-city trains between London KX and Edinburgh Waverley!
I must say my nightmares are usually much worse than the ride to Kings Lynn - although I had planned to do the trip before I went to Europe, but Great Northern had cancelled the service... so maybe you do have a point! Thanks for watching 👍
Well yes. I somehow feel I didn't really as I had a 1st Class interrail ticket and had already enjoyed 1st Class travel all week with it. Thanks for watching 👍
I have a lot of viewers from countries where metric is used. In fact, I learned metric at school myself (and I'm in my 60s). So, I will continue to provide both. Thanks for watching 👍
They are. Shame that Great Northern got rid of the Class 365 for the Class 387. They could have inherited the Class 379 from Greater Anglia and upgraded them to 110mph.
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The first class that isn’t…absolutely spot on! King’s Lynn looks a lovely place to spend a couple of hours.
Yes indeed. King's Lynn was an interesting destination (as would be Ely too) - but definitely you only need a std class ticket!
Best wishes to you!
I lived there for all my childhood up to 1993 when I left for university. Family is still there to this day.
I travel to Lynn regularly for work. Sadly no direct rail route from where I live in Norfolk, so I have to drive. I do take the train to London via Ely when I’m working there - so know the Route well.
It’s an interesting town, not without its problems given the economy. But it is a lovely old town. Listen to Mark Steel’s in Town when he went there - very amusing.
@@doctordeej I'll check that out.
King's Lynn has a long commercial history with the ports on the continent dating back to the 13th century. The lovely countryside reminds me of Flanders and the Netherlands. I wonder if the people who designed these seats are regular train travellers?! Thanks for the pleasant journey and interesting comments!🚉❤f
Of course, it was the Dutch that helped to create this English landscape, so the similarity is warranted.
Thanks so much for watching 👍
I've been on a train that used the Ely West curve I believe. The Norwich to Nottingham service usually reverses at Ely but there was a fault with the rear carriage cabin so we weren't able to stop there, and we used the curve to continue on towards Peterborough. The conductor described it as an 'unusual manoeuvre'
Oh very interesting. I hear there may be one Norwich-Manchester train on a Sunday that uses the curve.
Thanks for that and for watching 👍
Great video, excellent photography and interesting narrative, thanks for posting.
And thank you so much for watching and for the very kind comment. 👍
A company selling two standards of a product - one for over 50% more than the other - with no benefit of paying the extra? There a legal term for that. Starts with "F". Ends in "raud".
I couldn't possibly comment...
Thanks for watching 👍
They are basically charging extra for a guaranteed seat between Cambridge and London - some people might deem that worth it at peak times, but it is a bit ridiculous...
@ChilternTransportProductionsto be honest, the UK is one of only a few countries where there is additional service in 1st class, you might get service at your seat in Germany, but it's not complimentary, and even then you are likely served faster if you go to the buffer car yourself. In Italy or Denmark, you can get a drink and sometimes even a small snack, but in DK it's mostly self-service.
The main reason for 1st on commuter trains is the higher chance for a seat, the slightly quieter atmosphere, because it's mostly avoided by families or other travellers who tend to be a bit louder.
That said, 1st is generally only 50% more expensive, often even less.
Lovely video. Know this line very well. Used to live in Ely and shop in Kings lynn, so brought back good memories
Thank you, so very kind of you to say so. And I'm pleased to have brought back fond memories 👍
Thank you Johnny, a super video, yes hardly firstly class, something always relaxing about your journey’s
Thank you for watching and for the kind words too. Much appreciated 👍
Very interesting and informative presentation. I intend to visit Ely this year, a very attractive town centre. As for the 387s, the seats are unsuitable for such a long distance ride, whether in first or standard class. And many of the Great Northern sets appear to have a problem with vibrations, particularly over the bogies, shaking rapidly from side to side at speed. I'm not sure what's causing this but it almost feels like the bogies are 'hunting.' But I'm glad you had a pleasant journey.
Have a great time in Ely. It's a very long time since I've been there (not including this breeze through on the train). It was pleasant enough, but it isn't really an InterCity train in any sense of the word.
Thanks for watching and adding your thoughts on the trains 👍
The crossing keepers house at Stow Bardolph was occupied by the crossing keeper until he was almost 90, it was empty for a while but then purchased by an enthusiast who placed half a pacer around the back.
Ah thanks very much for that. I suppose that partially answers the question about why the Pacer is there... although still doesn't answer the question "but why would they buy half a Pacer and stick it in the garden?" . Mind you, might be a useful garden room, guest annex or a wacky place to keep your model railway...
Thanks for watching 👍
I've been on 1st class on Avanti, XC etc. but those don't compare to this! Wow! What a steal - might have to try it myself! Sadly though, first class is really just to guarantee a seat - not that it's inspected I'm sure. Been to Ely & Cambridge before, absolutely love both of them! Great video as always!
Thanks. Very kind as always. It is not good that there are so little benefits to what is still quite a premium price (unless you've blagged on with an Interrail ticket!)
Best wishes for you and your new videos 👍
Great effort JH
Thanks Kevin! 👍
Hmmm. Interesting interpretation of first class. Hope you enjoyed the big game yesterday.
Thought it was a good game... would have rather it been Ravens/Lions, but that's sport 🤷♂️
I travel on this line regularly, albeit only from Ely to Kings Cross, and I can confirm that the benefit of first class is... I’m still looking. To cap it all, there are no ticket checks on their train, so if you want a first class seat you can do it without paying. Oh, and bring a handkerchief with you to drape over the seat for that truly first class feeling.😂
Haha! Yes! The vertical moquette combined with a handkerchief acting as an antimacassar would surely make you feel like you were a king riding the royal train... what luxury... 😉
Thanks for sharing !!! Another nice journey !!! Support from Hong Kong.......
Thanks. Very kind. Best wishes from Exeter, UK 👍
1:48 one of the saddest things about Lynn’s railway station was the closing of the dock branch in 1994. Up to then most of the port traffic went out by rail now everything has to go by juggernaut which is a nightmare for the residents of west Norfolk as it just clogs up the A47 and A10 roads.
Its just as bad down here in east norfolk
I'm sorry to hear that... it seems that a lot of things that went to road in the 20th century may well be returning to rail on the post-climate change 21st century. Or at least we can hope...
Thanks for watching 👍
Nice video! I do this route on my commute most days. I don't mind the 387s; I wouldn't mind some padding on the seats, but the arm-level heaters are very nice in the winter. The 700s that fill in the half-hour gaps in the morning peak, on the other hand...well don't get me started on those. Oh well, I live in a tiny village and get a fast 8-car electric train so I don't think I really have that much to complain about. Cheers!
Yes, I think that "having a train service" thing trumps any moans about the rolling stock. The same's true where I am in Topsham. when a Class 150 rolls in I sigh a bit, but mostly I'm pleased there's a station and a train service!
Thanks for watching 👍
I get these trains regularly, and have more than once ended up sitting in first class entirely by accident
Easily done I'm sure!
Thanks for watching 👍
Good shots of Lynn and the station. I remember when there was a proper mainline service to Lynn from Liverpool street. What we have now is a commuter train. How did this happen?
I dunno - it is a little bit sad. but at least they do have an hourly service to London still...
Best wishes to you Colin. btw next week I'm on the ferry from Hoek van Holland to Harwich... spoiler... I mention getting. a beer at least twice but end up with a red wine... who am I turning into?
This is my local line (nearest one a that wasn't closed by Beeching or Castle, anyway).
KL station is very nice with its retro feel. It's not a bad service, with hourly trains, but if the Ely junction upgrade can get its funding (with what's left after TfL have had their cash) then there is a chance that there may be a half hourly service.
Good advice about the "First" class and I am sure that people will not waste there money after seeing this.
Surely Ely can have some of that "Northern" money - I mean it is north of London 🤣
Thanks for watching 👍
Yes, I believe Ely is a "dead-end reverse-out station" - if I remember correctly.?
@@JohnResalbEly is a 3 platform through station, so trains from Lynn to London are not affected, but trains from Norwich to Peterborough, Liverpool etc. do have to reverse there, so that is probably what you remember. I have actually changed to one of the reversing trains to reach Grantham a couple of years ago.
The Ely problem is mainly of capacity, with the single lines through Soham from the East, Northwards to Lynn and the junctions around the North of Ely.
It is actually quite a busy station with both passenger and freight trains
@@JohnnyHooverTravels how many millions PER DAY do they spend on hotel accomodation plus living expenses for the never ending stream of illegal immigrants.?
I have thought for a long time that all those rail projects you mention, could easily be taken care of, PLUS high speed which will be a total white elephant so long as it only starts in suburban London and finishes just in Birmingham.!
And can you imagine what the ticket price will be, while West Midlands Trains offer a bargain ticket for a journey starting from CENTRAL London, and taking just 20 minutes or so longer.
A great video Johnny ,hope you're well 😊😊
Thanks. Very kind. Picked up a light injury playing american football on Sunday (no, I wasn't in the Superbowl) but should be able to train and stretch it this week to be ready again for more this weekend.
I hope the video found you well. Best wishes from Devon 👍
Hi Johnny, another great video. I travelled along that route just over 3 weeks ago, albeit between Ely and Kings Cross. My train was a pair of 387s but I think it was a different sub class as the seats weren't the "ironing board" types as featured in your video. .In answer to your question regarding passenger services using the Ely West Curve, EMR's 1554 Norwich to Manchester Piccadilly on a Sunday is normally routed that way running non stop from Thetford to Peterborough. Kings Lynn still has an old favourite of mine in the town centre, a Wimpy restaurant.
Maybe I need to organise a trip to Norwich that ends around lunchtime on a Sunday so I can then go on to Manchester on this quirky ride! Needs to happen in the summer or else it will mostly be in the dark though.
Thanks for that, and thanks for watching too 👍
I only found your site today and am enjoying it greatly. Your presentation, rail knowledge, filming and editing is excellent. I have followed several supposed rail enthusiasts on RUclips, who become boring very quickly. Your work is great Johnny, I will be back for more, thank you so much.
All that is lovely of you to say. If you are up for it, there's a playlist of every video in the chronological order of the journeys - there's a lot now, but you might be up for the challenge 😉
Comments like yours are the ones that really keep me going at this - Thank you 👍
Yes. I went from Cambridge to Welwyn daily. It was packed. I also tried the Leeds-Ely-Cambridge. It took a long time. My girlfriend went to the loo six times. Now, that is the way to count time.
Gosh, a "six-pee" journey really is a marathon... or had she brought a slab of lagers on board with her?
Thanks for watching 👍
I thought you were still in the Netherlands, no? 🤷🏼♂️ Just realised despite having lived in Norfolk for 25 years, I have never been to Lynn station. Love the restoration job. Downham Market too in a weird 80s hair metal kind of way. That first class product really is something else! No wait, actually, it’s not something else, is it? 😂 Great stuff cheers!
The travel was all in December (so sometimes I don't edit/release the trips in chronological order) - I will be back in Rotterdam on Friday's video.
I didn't video it (because there were a lot of people that didn't need a camera in their face) but the interior of the café was also wonderful and the lady behind the counter made a very good cup of coffee! worth a trip to Lynn for that!
Oh, and the 1st class? It was SO different. Surely you noticed that I clearly showed how the moquette on 1st class was a vertical pattern, whilst 2nd/std was horizontal... definitely worth paying 50% extra for... 🤦♂
Thanks for keeping with the channel - best wishes to Norfolk from Devon 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels It's all about the angle of moquette! FWIW I should point out that East Anglia was in a former life and I've been living in Brooklyn NYC for the past quarter of a century. Trying to figure out a way back to the UK, not least because both the trains and the architecture here are garbage. FWIW, I'm planning an Interail trip of my own for 18 days in Mar/Apr, a lot of which is inspired by your travels. So a huge thanks! 😎
@@horsehollerer you are very welcome. I'm back out on Interrail in March/April. March around Switzerland and April thinking maybe Italy. We may bump into each other!
Awesome. Yes, I'm exploring an ambitious schedule that will likely include a bit of Swiss Alps and a stopover in Trieste on the way to Slovenia. I'll get the beers in! 😎 @@JohnnyHooverTravels
Lovely video!! I live in Waterbeach and have used this train my whole life, relying on it for journeys to Cambridge and London. It feels very lucky to have a regular train that runs so quickly to London from a random small village almost non-stop! I have a lot of love for Great Northern despite the insane pricing
Nice to hear your point of view. I know we moan a lot about the quality of trains and the standard of such things as the seating, but really the most important thing is to have a regular, reliable train!
Thank for the kind comment. Much appreciated 👍
I recognize this is a rather regular and mundane service to most people, which is fair. To me however this service has a touch of magic to it, I associate it with the pent up excitement of visiting Burnham Overy Staithe and beyond, onwards from King's Lynn - or dreamy sigh of leaving. I've done two such return journeys in my life and expect to do more. Initially as a literary tourist, taking interest in the setting of the Joan G. Robinson novel When Marnie Was There, but now I have a general admiration for the North Norfolk coast. Fantastic video, good to know the ins-and-outs of this journey. Last time I returned from Lynn's, when stopping at Waterbeach one of a group of people commented, "Waterbeach? I don't see water nor a beach."
@@anjum5831 it's nice to hear a different perspective. All journeys can indeed be magical, that's certainly why i travel.
Thanks for the kind words too 👍
Never been to King’s Lynn in my entire life. I have heard that King’s Lynn is very nice. Plus Great Northern have brought the Class 379s that are due to enter service sometime later this year.
@@Andrewjg_89 Yes, King's Lynn seemed pretty nice to me, although it was a bit of a wet day, so i didn't see it at its best! The station and the buffet are particularly good though!
Thanks for watching another 👍
Good video,
Thank you 👍
Vancouver Canada is not the only city named after that British sailor. He also gave his name to Vancouver, WA USA. Amtrak trains serve both cities on the same line.
Crikey he gets two places named after him and all I get named after me is a vacuum cleaner... 😉
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels " ... all I get named after me is a vacuum cleaner... " - Dam(n) shame! :D
'1st class' on all of the electro stars is 1 big swindle.
That does appear to be the case. I know people will pay a premium to help to guarantee a seat and generally less crowding, but it should not be the ONLY benefit...
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Agreed . Would personally lower the premium and rename it plus seating or something. Maybe an increase in phone charging points as well.
Hahaha 1st class! Funny
Indeed...
You should have gotten off at Cambridge, that wait time is so another 387 can couple up to it until London.
ah, that's what we were waiting for! Thanks for that, and thanks too for watching 👍
Good, interesting video. I am always interested in how full a train is... it is relevant when price is discussed because occupancy indicates whether or not the price reflects people's willingness or ability to pay.
Yes, could well be price related...
Thanks for watching 👍
That First Class is pitched at mug buyers, Great Northern's mission statement "never give a sucker an even break". I like the 1950's themed Kings Lynn Station. Thanks for another good vid 👍
Thanks for the kind words and for watching another 👍
They've done a lovely job at King's Lynn Station, haven't they. I find it amazing in these days of corporate conformity that the railways buck the trend and respect their heritage. I believe that GWR is particularly dedicated to that.
Yes. Nice to have some variation. The Looe branch line on GWR is particularly nice.
Thanks for watching 👍
The 387s are less comfortable and ride much worse at speed than the 365s that used to operate that service. The 365s 1st Class actually looked comfy as well. Just look at images of it
Ah "progress" as they say...
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels No problem!
Passenger services using that curve? I think 1M80(15:54) from Norwich does on a Sunday
Thanks. I may just try and fit that into my plans.
and thanks too for watching 👍
The upside is that great northern is getting the class 379s, which have actually decent first class seating. Hope they don't just rip it all out in favour of crappy ironing board seating!
We'll have to wait and see I suppose 🤷♂️
Thanks for watching 👍
Totally agree first class isn't worth it. I travelled from Ely to Kings Lynn in the summer and found the ride quality very poor, but I put it down to the track rather than the unit.
Yes. You would have to be mad or rich... or on Interrail 😄
Thanks for watching 👍
Great video Johnny! The only time i buy first class is if get a good deal on Avanti or LNER as they're the only companies who provide a full meal service!
GWR and TfW also provide a Pullman dining service, but it does come with an additional charge, but for GWR you don't have to have a first class ticket.
Yes. The extras on Avanti and LNER are the envy of other 1st Class!
Thank for the nice comment and thanks for watching 👍
I did get the Pullman dining on a std ticket on GWR last year, but it was mostly covered by 1st Class ticket holders so only a couple of us at the front of the queue made it in! Lovely bit of luxury on the train back to Devon mind you 😎
Southern’s service’s don’t distinguish between Standard and First Class either: just the sign on the door and a white cloth on the seat back.
This rolling stock was originally assigned to Southern, hence the colour scheme being the same and the’Great Northern’ name on the carriages being a vinyl sticker that masks the areas where previously it said Southern.
Note the red and white train at 11:55, which also runs this route. The red carriages are branded Gatwick Express, but now operate on the line featured in this video.
Just recently some dark green stock has joined this route, being ex-GWR.
Yes. I've been on Southern recently and it was as bleak as these GN trains...
Thanks for watching 👍
@@tsd550 Thanks for that extra information 👍
I would just remove 1st class from the service, not worth it being honest, great video and how odd seeing a Pacer in BR Blue
Oh yes. Didn't think about it until you said, but BR blue is not really a recent Pacer livery is it.
After now nearly 8 months of rain I wouldn't bet on the water level being higher than the farm land! Hardly a dry day since July 2023 began.
Well hopefully the drainage keeps working!
Thanks for watching 👍
Thanks for that. The UK domestic "all liner" is at least DOUBLE the price per day.
So much so, I calculated that if you buy each of the main regions and travel them back to back, the price would be hardly greater than the "all liner".
AND you have a total validity of about six weeks compared to just two weeks on the all liner.!!
AND you get "days-off" options within the period.
Good points. For what I do here the regional rover/ranger tickets work best for sure.
I used the service for a short notice return trip from Hampshire to Kings Lynn four years ago. It only costs me £80 which I thought very good value for money - mind you i did travel second class. .
Yes, I suppose that is maybe a price at the top end of the "fair" area for short notice trips in 2nd class
Thanks for watching 👍
Of course,the parts of East Anglia going to KX used to serve the more logical Ĺiverpool Street until the big switch in the early 90s🎩
Yeah. There's still a little of that in my head as i was a trainspotter in the 70s
Thanks for watching 👍
Going to Kings Cross is quicker and it's a better located station.
My regular commute from Ely to KGX. The only part of the old 365s I miss is the seating; balanced out in the 387s by the effective air conditioning. The 365s were horrendous in summer so not missed by me.
Yes, i know the subject of the video was around what a rip off the 1st class was, but you are right. On a regular commute, a hot stuffy train is awful and so good a/c can be a real winner!
Thanks for watching 👍
dude the 365s are leagues better than the 387s. Sound nicer to.
The Class 365s Are Better Then The Class 387s 👍
The on board announcement at 8.33 sounded like she said the word service using air quotes.😀
hahahaha! nice one!
Thanks for watching too 👍
These trains are ex-Southern. The announcement at 8:45 originally said “welcome aboard this Southern service …”.
When the stock transferred to the ridiculously named ‘Great Northern’ (it is not Northern, and is very far from Great), they edited out the word Southern but did not have enough space for Great Northern, so just left it as it is.
As you say, it sounds as if she is saying ‘welcome aboard this service …(if you can call it that …).
It’s considered by GN to be good enough for the bog-trotters of West Norfolk, - being the same people who voted for Liz Truss to be their MP!
@@tsd550 That makes sense now! Thanks for that. And also thank you so much for watching 👍
I couldnt believe the price so i thought i would check. Yep, 40 quid in standard though there seemed to be some odd pricepoints where you can change twice and get it for 29.
So much for the Government simplifying fares..
Indeed - and if the stunt being tried by LNER currently, we are maybe going to all get stung a lot more in the future...
Thanks for watching 👍
Wait until you buy a first class seat on Scotrail for what you think is an HST, then it’s replaced with a 170… that has a reclining seat and a table lamp. 😂😂
Ah yes. Good point! Those Inter7City HSTs do have a lovely 1st Class and I'd agree that you'd feel a bit cheated if a 170 rolled up...
I travelled Hitchin to Kings Lynn last Saturday for £10:40 return on a super off peak ticket including a senior rail card.
That wasn't too bad then!
Thanks for watching 👍
The Class 387s were ordered and specified by the Department for Transport, hence the ironing board seats (no expense spared) and lack of anything that could be described as 1st Class, they replaced the more comfortable Class 365 which in turn replaced the Class 317 and that's progress ????
No. Not really progress at all...
Thanks for watching another 👍
The last time I made this journey was around 1986, Loco hauled to Liverpool St back then
Yers, I would like to go back in time and try that one. hey ho... not to be now...
Thanks for watching 👍
We visited Kings Lynn and found it an interesting place. It has a very good shopping centre with many independents. We have class 387s on the Paddington to Didcot line and they are good to ride on despite the hard seats. I used to commute from London to Huntington on those awful Thameslink trains with the ironing board seats before discovering the declassified first coach with extra padding, a table, power sockets and wifi. All for a 2nd class fare.
Yes. Regardless of the pros and cons of the train (and its first class) it was a pleasure to visit King's Lynn.
There's currently Class 166s on my local line with declassified 1st. Always good to get a nicer seat!
Thanks for watching 👍
Never knew that this part of the UK looks exactly the same as the Netherlands.
The Fens were drained and reclaimed from the sea by Dutch Engineers, hence there is a Dutch influence in much of the architecture of that time.
Further North, up in Lincolnshire was where my forebears came over from The Netherlands to drain the land about 400 years ago! On the south side of the Humber estuary there is a town called "New Holland" - oh, and thanks for watching 👍
1st Class on British Rail trains generally is more like 2nd class in my opinion. Not sure what the extra money covers. Certainly very poor.
Well this one certainly did not pass muster.
Thanks for watching 👍
Ironing Board Seats 😊
😉
Thanks for watching 👍
last time i went to KL ... had a class 47 to London mmmmmmm
Well, that was a while ago then 😉
First class is becoming merely an option to avoid busy rush-hours.
Having the same comfort allows the train operator to extend or diminish the amount of first class seating, at a whim.
Now, something that interested me much more in your video - how did you manage to use Interarail in your home country.?
Is it something new that I am not aware of ?
Interrail Global Pass: You are permitted to use the global pass in your country of residence for two days of the period of validity. I had a "10 days in 2 months" ticket, which meant I could use the ticket in the UK for two days. Interrail refer to this as an outbound and an inbound day, although you may not actually be using it to leave or enter the country.
It is worth reading up on the Interrail ticket on the ManinSeat61 website. It can be very handy indeed.
thanks for watching and for the question 👍
Thanks
Thank you - that is very generous - best wishes to you ❤
Connolly to Llyn-by-the-sea
For a 1st class ( LUNATIC ? ) rail journey , you would have taken the ( 2002 ! ) Crosslink ( Anglia train ) from Basingstoke to Norwich ( Eh ? ) , via Woking , Addlestone . Syon park , Willesden Junction , Dalston , Stratford , Ingatestone etc ... ( but NOT if you needed a speedy trip ! ) ..... Ha - Ha ............ DAVE™🛑
Sounds like a nightmare! I'll mention it to Mark at @letsmakeatrip - that's the kind of pain he's into... 🤣
Thanks for watching 👍
Great video Johnny. Out of curiosity are there any other types of trains like this where the first and standard classes are essentially the same?
Yes. Southern also has fake first too.
Thanks for the kind words and thanks for watching 👍
Gatwick express…
Yes -South Western Railway's awful Class 444 Desiro EMU's which operate between London Waterloo and Portsmouth Harbour! First Class seating was downgraded from 2+1 to 2+2 so they could cram more passengers into a smaller space but charge them more for their travel tickets! Southern's Class 377's are just as bad with essentially no product differentiation between First Class and Standard Class in return for a 50% premium on the ticket price!
@@HSTHoward - All of the trains operated by GTR!
@@KempSimon i'll be doing Waterloo to Portsmouth some time soon. I will look out for the dodgy 1st...
Hello Johnny just to let you know that my journey from holyhead to Dublin was ok due to your helpful video. thanks again
That's great to hear. I'm so pleased that the video proved helpful and that your journey went off without incident. Best wishes to you 👍
Hello there I used to use these a lot but London not much mainly just between Ely & cam ticket was never checked on the train was yours between Lynn & London ?
Yes. I recall it was checked once, not far into the journey.
Thanks very much for watching 👍
There was never a business case for extending the 25kV OLE electrification scheme north of Cambridge - any more than there was for extending the 850 Volt Third Rail electrification west of Poole - but Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's anti-rail Tory government made the GBP 40 million available in 1989 and electric trains started running to King's Lynn just three years later. So now the residents of the coastal communities of Weymouth and King's Lynn both enjoy hourly, high-quality electric train commuter services to the capital, which could never have been justified on purely economic grounds, thanks to the same, anti-rail Conservative government which signed off the Total Route Modernisation of the Chiltern Main Line from London Marylebone to Birmingham Snow Hill.
Yes. Interesting to compare current govt with Thatcher's. This lot are far more anti public services. But in a democracy you get the govt that the majority votes for. So it is hard to be completely grumpy about it 🤷♂️
For the last time it's not the great Ouse it's called Tye great river Ouse
You paid a mere 20 GBP extra for a vertical striped moquette? I've heard people pay thousands for the pleasure of sitting on it.
Indeed. I felt honoured to get the chance.
thanks for watching 👍
What was the average speed Cambridge to London and Lynn to Cambridge
I wonder if they made it a proper 1st class when the Queen used to use the service regularly going to Sandringham.
I think the status of 'second class' was dropped decades ago. Just sayin' [edit: I note you refer to Standard class later in the video]
They have their own train 🤣
I hope she used her Senior Railcard...
Than👍ks for watching
Selling that as First Class must be close to fraud?
I couldn't possibly comment 😉
Thanks for watching 👍
You think that's bad? Years ago I went to an interview in Lancashire from Kent. The job centre paid. They gave me a rail warrant like the armed forces get. The most expensive open return ticket money could buy. This was in 2010. £450!!!!!
@@ashleystyles6888 crikey!! What a waste of our money! Mind you... did you get the job? 😀
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Yeah 4 years on Eurofighter typhoon in Saudi, so it was "kind of" worth it lol
I went to Kings Lynn in December 🙂. Despite growing up not too far away, I'd never been before. Weather was the same as yours, grey and bleak, a wonderful way to spend NYE afternoon!
Also went from Cambridge to Kings Cross, can't say I enjoyed it as I was meant to be going to Stansted! Mad dash for the last train to Scotland!
Technically not THE last train, there was the sleeper but....no
I'd never been to Ely either, it was very nice 🙂
It is funny that when we grow up somewhere we don't go around the county all that much. As a kid in Leicestershire I just went to school and mucked about with my mates. Why would I visit other local towns? Recently my sister an I had to go to Hinkley. In over 60 years, neither of us had ever had a reason to go there...
Thanks for watching and sharing your experiences 👍
When you go on your regional rovers, on M-F if you need to start before 9am (it probably won't be every day, anyway), just simply buy the excess required to take to up to about 9am.
It's STILL much cheaper than the all liner.
Upon doing some research, we calculated that the only area where you can score with the all liner is if you're making trips from London and the South East area, especially before 9am (where prices are extortionate).
Thanks for that - and yes, I've done that paying for a single to cover the first few stops when the train leaves before the validity of the rover ticket!
You know what, just get rid of first class on these types of routes in my opinion first class should only be on intercity routes like LNER and Avanti ect since at least with first class on those routes at least you get food included with the Ticket!
Agreed
Greater Anglia got rid of most first class, bar Norwich and their current first class gives an extra 1½inches
that would seem a reasonable option. Thanks for watching 👍
I disagree, the main attraction to 1st is the higher chance of a seat during rush hours, I'd gladly pay a little more for that probability. Yes, during the quieter hours, it's mostly useless, but that's also when it doesn't matter as much that part of the train is rather empty, because there's enough seating elsewhere.
Maybe the price difference shouldn't be as high (this could maybe justify a 25-30% price bump, not 50%), but overall, I'm in favour of keeping 1st, even on local services.
Calling it business instead might be a bad call, as the few railway companies in Europe who use the designation use it rather confusingly for a comfort level higher than 1st (ÖBB, ČD, Trenitalia...). Business are the handful of 1+1 seating, often with full recline, in Railjets and Frecciarossas, 1st class is mostly 1+2.
really should be done by the 379s
Any sign of works on the east west line to Bedford?
I think I was on the wrong side of the train to notice much of that to be honest. Best nice when that east/west line comes on stream though.
Thanks for watching 👍
Having arm rests is worth the extra money :)
Yes. Every time! and don't forget that very luxurious vertical seat moquette too...
Thanks for watching 👍
The seats in second/standard class also have those armrests, see 3:59.
@@tsd550 Indeed they do 👍
there are still the occasional norwich to liverpool emr trains that use the ely west curve but they are ghost trains im not sure of the time or head code but i will find it
there is a 15:54 sunday service from norwich to Manchester Piccadilly that uses it
@@FinnMaclennan ah - well I quite fancied doing one of those long distance EMR trains out of Norwich (Manchester or Liverpool), so maybe that should be the one for me!
Thanks 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels your very welcome
@@JohnnyHooverTravelsI'd take a cushion if you do the full trip on a 158 - I did Liverpool to Grantham recently and not very comfortable after several hours!
@@peterskegness3204 haha, I know what you mean! But I've done some very long runs on 158s, so I should be fine 👍
How did a poxy line out to King’s Lynn get 25kv OHLE electrification? Seems odd given this country’s poor rail electrification.
I see your point. Maybe the question is, "if Kings Lynn is electrified, then why not more lines?"
Btw thanks for watching 👍
The answer to your question is 2 words- British Rail (or 5 if you include Network South East). If you can ignore the lies constantly put out by successive governments (tory, including "new labour"), then it is apparent that that British Rail was actually very good at getting things done on time and within budget. Compare the size of the overhead masts on this line with the Forth Bridge equivalent installed on the GW main line.
The original service was only to Liverpool Street, but when the funds became available, the infill wiring from Royston to the East Coast main line was completed for the service to King's Cross to begin.
It's got to be up to standard just in case the Royal train is ever used to Sandringham again like it used to be! All the road potholes get filled very quickly too!! 🧐😄
@@johntyjpElizabeth always used the normal service train to Lynn, first class of course, but Mr. Save the planet, Charles goes by helicopter, so I doubt if he even knows what a pothole is.
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Exactly, why can’t more lines be electrified if this one is. The Midland
mainline, the Chiltern line. They are busy lines that are still running diesel trains.
I remember the Kings Lynn London service being loco hauled with a buffet car. Admittedly to Liverpool Street. As a 1st class offering this is pretty poor.
Yes, I would love to go back in time to enjoy that. I never got to King's Lynn in my old trainspotting days in then 1970s.
Thanks for watching 👍
How can they possibly justify selling that as 1st class? It's a joke.
I can recall when this route was operated by loco hauled inter-city stock prior to electrification with real 1st class.
Yes, it is a bit cheeky.
Thanks for watching 👍
Third class was better
Great Northern could have had the Class 379 Electrostar and upgrade them to 110mph (177km/h). The Class 387s are very good trains and have excellent speed.
I suppose the problem is that the 387 just isn't anything other than "functional".
Thanks for watching another 👍
It is inferior to Third Class before it was abolished.
Hmm. Not sure I would want to go back to pre 1956 3rd class stock.
But thanks for watching 👍
The seats are dreadful.
Yeah - they are not great...
...thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels It's the same on greater anglia. All you get for a first class fare is a paper napkin on the top of the seat. Europe is way ahead of us with their train cabin qualities, and some are quite old as well.
@@doveronefoxtrot4417 - What? Not even a complimentary biscuit and cup of coffee? You get a freshly-cooked hot meal for free in First Class on some of LNER's inter-city trains between London KX and Edinburgh Waverley!
@doveronefoxtrot4417 not true. the london to norwich is the only first class on greater anglia with a cafe
Its already a nightmare to get to kings lynn on a train as it is
I must say my nightmares are usually much worse than the ride to Kings Lynn - although I had planned to do the trip before I went to Europe, but Great Northern had cancelled the service... so maybe you do have a point!
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The only difference is that it's quiter
That, and the quality vertical moquette...😉
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Plus the additional space and often the type of person who 'officially' makes use of it.
If you paid a first class fare, well.....
Well yes. I somehow feel I didn't really as I had a 1st Class interrail ticket and had already enjoyed 1st Class travel all week with it.
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What a disgrace to call this "First Class" Sack the DfT, and the rail operator!
It certainly is a bit tenuous to call this a 1st class product for sure!
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much too expensive...
Poor show to say that's "1st class"!
@@andywillis2650 quite! Just putting a sign up doesn't really make something first class! 🤷♂️
You are working your way through them. Good on you 👍
Forget the metric measurements
I have a lot of viewers from countries where metric is used. In fact, I learned metric at school myself (and I'm in my 60s).
So, I will continue to provide both.
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The Class 387s Are a Downgrade From The 365s
I suspect you may be right there.
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They are. Shame that Great Northern got rid of the Class 365 for the Class 387. They could have inherited the Class 379 from Greater Anglia and upgraded them to 110mph.
@@Andrewjg_89 That's Ture The Class 379s Would Be Good For This Line 👍