Part 1: How To Convert Your Generator To Natural Gas or Propane ruclips.net/video/nO839Sayci0/видео.html Product Links: Vented Fuel Jugs: amzn.to/2CY5IiT Valvoline Natural Gas Motor Oil: amzn.to/2Ql7jnU Nash Fuel Kits: amzn.to/2CKjDZF
I was a propane carburetion technician for 10 years, had a full shop Dino 4 gas analyzer and converted engines everyday, it's nice to see it is still being done even after new regulations. Looks like you're spot-on that conversion good job.
I worked for an lp gas company for years and all their service trucks ran on LP / gasoline and we put well over 200, thousand miles on them, they burn cleaner and didn't give not one minute trouble, We actually tore on down once ( Ford 360 ) and it looked like new inside, not even a wear ring at top of cylinder, cross hatch was still there,, Great way to go on a generator. Last forever..
For those wondering why run on NG rather than propane: If you intend to be prepared for a lengthy outage, then the amount of propane you can store on site becomes an issue. There may be city or HOA restrictions. Then you have to deal with how to get propane tanks refilled when trucks are held up by the storm and everyone else is lined up to refill at the same time. One other note. Propane tanks get colder as the liquid evaporates. At 7000 watts, you're likely pushing the limit of how many cubic feet per hour you can get from a 20lb tank at zero degrees or below. You may need dual tanks, tank heaters or something larger. If the tank is larger, there are more rules about where it can be situated. If you don't want to worry about that tank running dry during the night, you'll want an auto changeover setup like on an RV. So I'm treating propane as the 3rd option with an inverter up first to cover the initial day, followed by the generator on NG and propane last. I agree about not cutting the frame. I used some angle iron to shift the engine mounts far enough horizontally to make room for the air box.
This is the exact setup I have, only difference is my engine is a Yamaha - I have not had to really test it here in NJ yet - but i start it 2x a year just to make sure it works - Zero problems...Great video
Thank you for the spot-on information. I'll be converting my Generac GP7000E first chance I get. Last outage we went through 20 plus gallons of gas at $3.88/gallon. At $160 for the conversion kit on amazon, (less the natural gas) I'll break even after 41.2 gallons of gas, plus the converting it over fun...plus, screw the refilling at 4am! You always have informative and useful videos, thanks again!
I just scored a new-ish 5000w generator from my neighbor because is was leaking gas, I converted it to tri-fuel for the same price as carb overhaul parts, I ran it on NG out of my garage line, Oh it's so nice, Never having to haul gas home, No gas going bad each year, I don't have to add fuel stabilizer, No gunking carb, I'm just going to stick with NG and propane.
I have the same conversion kit, and like you I like the conversion kit because your generator becomes tri-fuel instead of just propane and liquid gas models.
Two Comments: Vacuum leak - Will not affect the fuel/air ratio when running on gasoline as it is external to the carburetor and the vacuum leak sensitive portion of the intake system. That said, it is possible to draw some unfiltered air into the engine through the (now) open natural gas connection so that would be bad. So, valve you installed has a purpose. Power Back on Detector - I use a device from Relaince (the same folks who made your power meter) called a PowerBack (Utility Power Return Alert). It is battery powered and can be armed when you turn on your backup generator. It monitors the incoming mains and sets off a (disturbingly) loud alarm when the utility power is back on. I expect it is extra loud to be heard over generator noise. You can find it on Amazon by searching for PowerBack.
You could also just alligator clip a cheap 120V siren/alarm ($13.50) and when the power comes back it will go off even though the rest of the box is off line power. www.amazon.com/Industrial-110dB-MS-190-Alarm-Buzzer/dp/B00IJ678Q6/ref=asc_df_B00IJ678Q6
@@SomnoNaut Neither a great nor safe idea and surely against any north american electrical code. (Gauge of any wire must be able to safely take the entire load of the breaker that it's connected to, otherwise it's a fire risk). The PowerBack noted above use an induction coil or similar to connect to the mains. i.e not a direct connection)
Thank you my Buckeye brother! Excellent info follow-up! Did not know about the possible valve and seat issues. I am not really that concerned as I hopefully only will run on NG for very short stints when power goes out. Thanks again for sharing. It is very much appreciated. Cheers from Michigan.
Great original build-out video and followup video. I had a few questions watching the first one, found the link to this one and you answered all of them. Thank you!
I have a dual fuel generator! Both fuels work. The propane is less of a hassle and cleaner burning and better on oil changes and cleanliness of the oil. You don’t have the mess of gasoline and propane is cheaper to run. Fork trucks have been on propane for decades and much safer while working inside a warehouse!
Thank-you for the videos they are both very informative and good information. As an electronics guy I'd note that although you are only slightly off of 60Hz this will cause items with clocks to be off or loose time as they run on your system. This coincidently is also why on Gass you noticed the Flickr of the lights it was further off from 60Hz I believe I noticed 57.xHz anyway having power and alternative methods of getting it is great and the main point. Thank-you and good work keep it going :)
I know I am 3years late telling you this but with most of your comments. Including valve recession. The only comment I want to add is valve recession is only a problem with cast iron valve seats. Most overhead valve engines used in generators have aluminum heads and already have hardened valve seats.
Hey RG, thanks for the video. I've been looking for info on maintinance for LP/propane generators. I understand your point regarding the hardened valve seats you mentioned. But I don't use my generator too often to worry about that, but it sits in storage for extended periods of time and I'm not sure if I need to do anything to make sure it's going to work when I need it. Thanks for the help in advance.!
I have done the conversion but I don't use gasoline. It is good to know that I can. I have a powerhorse 7,000 and also have my natural gas connection outside and my breaker box outside.
Someone expressed a concern about running out of natural gas and having to return to gasoline. If your natural gas supply is pumped to your house, it won't run out for months or years. Natural gas comes out of the ground under pressure. The gas companies store surplus by pumping it into huge underground reservoirs sufficient for months or years. The distribution systems are controlled electrically, but the gas companies have generators fueled by (wait for it) natural gas. If you get your gas (natural or propane) is delivered by truck, chances are good those trucks are fueled by the same type of gas they are delivering.
All good info. In my area the majority of the houses are heated by natural gas. Natural gas outages are like you said slim and outages in the winter are almost noon existent. The comments in these videos are full of 'internet engineers'. So, thank you for injecting some common sense.
Repair Geek I was wondering since your using natural gas if you should use a drop leg at the gas inlet on the generator to catch any sediment that may come through the gas line There should be a drop leg on a nat. Gas furnace and gas water heater on a portable generator I don’t really know. Just to keep crap out of your engine. Good video.
As a natural gas company tech I can tell you that not all companies have natural gas fired back up generators. I worked a huge outage in New Mexico years ago and people were without gas for weeks. I know it’s crazy but it’s reality. Second if the power grid goes down and the compressors are not working to maintain pressure in the distribution lines, the gas in the lines will be depleted quickly ( in hours) by furnaces etc running on gen power. Once the existing gas pressure is below a pound or two it will start sucking air into the distribution piping. Once that happens you won’t have gas in the lines again until we purge the air out and replace it with gas once the grid is up again.
Where I live, for the past 16+ years. Anytime we have Power Outage, we ALWAYS have Gas. The Company that supply our Gas, have Gas Generators Back Up.... Hahahahahaha, they are the Gas Company! LOL
Thank you so much for such In-Depth information. All my questions were answered - and then some!! Now to get off my butt and get working!! Thanks again!
After converting mine, a HF Predator 8750, I started reading about "valve recession", because unless the valves are hardened, the lack of lubrication and cooling from the gasoline, wear and tear will be added at a considerable rate. As for me, I still like the idea, but next time I will get an engine that can be converted. HF's are very basic and hardened valves are not available for it.
I was just about to modify my brand new generator (never used so far) to natural gas but I am concerned about the fact that gas runs the engine very dry, especially valve seats and stems. I must come up with an answer to that or I will face some parts of the engine running hotter than they should. In the old days, we used to have lead in the fuel which would deposit on the valve seats and guides creating a protective coating, with the advent of unleaded they have come up with some substitute additives but with gas, we would non benefit from either of those. I appreciate your comment on this as I have not seen mention of this problem in any of the videos online so far
You can make your own. And I don't mean by farting into a balloon! Look up Bio-gas generator (methane, i.e. natural gas, or CH4, is a byproduct of anaerobic digestion by bacteria).
So when You are setting the RPM with your fuel mixture, Should you set that a zero load, full load, or half load? Seems like setting it at half load or higher may give you better performance at those loads.
Very helpful, thank you. A question - I have new Champion 7500w Dual Fuel (gasoline/LPG) Portable Generator. I also have natural gas to my home and therefore accessible for use in place of LPG. What modifications must I make to my generator to allow it to run on natural gas, and can I easily switch back and forth between LPG and natural gas if needed? Thanks
I have converted 3 different gasoline generators from 6k to 86k to 15k watts to natural gas over the years and still can default to gasoline if necessary.
So I installed the snorkel kit from US corporation. I planned natural gas to the unit. I’ve drained the gas tank of gas, because I don’t anticipate using gas further. This is my question… Do I simply turn the gas shut off… to Off...(To prevent a vacuum leak?) Thereafter, I assume I’m sad to transition over to natural gas in tune the block adjustment. Thanks to repair geek for the detailed video!!
I liked your review. I do have a technical question that I've wondered about and haven't found an answer to. That's this; purpose built backup generators such as Generac and Kohler have deeper oil sumps with replaceable oil filters and sometimes oil filters. They are able to run for very extended times without changing the oil. On the other hand, portable generators require frequent oil changes. Have you heard of a way to connect an external oil supply and/or cooler to a portable generators in a semi-fixed position?
You can't add a filter to a portable unit. The portable uses a splash lubricated system. So the crankshaft and connecting rod dip into the oil and splash it around inside the motor. You can't splash oil through a filter. Engines with filters have oil pumps and have pressure lubrication. They are 2 totally different systems. In any case your oil will stay much cleaner on NG or propane than what they would gasoline.
@@RepairGeek Kinda what I thought. I couldn't figure a way to keep the proper level of oil in the crankcase for the splash lubrication to work as designed. Thanks for the quick reply tho'.
Thoughts on being able to operate this INSIDE a well-ventilated garage while on natural gas? A ventless heater up to 35k BTU can be used indoors, so I guess it would depend on the amount of natural gas being burned by your setup.
Actually if you go back to the previous Video where you installed the convertion kit the generator without the kit was surging running on Gas, alone with the kit installed please notice the dryer on low as before it is not surging the meters are holding steady .
HighVoltage 1200 correct. It was much warmer outside when I shot this video. In the previous video, the generator was running slightly lean due to the colder more dense air during the winter. This video was shot about a week ago.
You have not addressed starting the motor with a natural gas regulator. Someone else said a person needs to push the little spring on the back of the regulator while trying to start it. Is this true? If so, it's very hard to do if you're trying to pull a cord
Yes. And you probably have to adjust your air fuel ratio like he did at the beginning. I have a $30 Chinese version of this that I have planned to connect to my lawn mower, and I think they have some sort of switch that adjusts the orafice size between propane and natural gas built in.
Do you think you could make a dual fuel generator (Gas/LP) run on Natural Gas by using the LP Gas input on the generator instead of inserting at the carb? Using a Natural Gas regulator...
Awesome video, im just about to convert my generator, but one question i had is, what would happen if the generator stalls for some reason, say it senses a low oil pressure and stops running, does the gas continue to flow?
I'll just say a couple of things here. First off, I strongly recommend that you either put a secure access box over the pipe and valve. This will keep others from messing with it and or turning the valve on, ESPECIALLY kids. Either that or have an easily accessible shut off inside where it is secure (in the house or in the garage if you lock it). Forgive me if you already know this and have done it, but if you have done this work yourself, you should have a qualified plumber or pipe fitter to inspect your work and tag the work as approved. Otherwise, if there is a fire, your fire insurance may not cover the damages. The other thing to note for you and your viewers is that this kind of work cannot be legally done by a "layperson" (not trained and licensed) if it is a rental home, a duplex, or multiple housing. So far as rental, I'm guessing that means the person renting the home not the owner.
The end of the pipe has a quick disconnect fitting which prevents gas from escaping even when the valve is open. He just closes the valve while it’s still running and connected to pull everything from the hose.
RG, The only question I have is re: gas / propane pressure. Isn't natural gas at your house at a much lower pressure than propane from a bottle? Would I need to put an additional regulator between a propane source and the gas regulator on the genset to account for this? Thanks and I am glad I found these gen mod videos. They are very informative and easy to follow.
Valvoline Premium Blue One Solution 9200 SAE 10W-30 What are the pros and cons of using this oil when running on natural gas? Anybody used it with a 7000W Champion Inverter? Thanks!
I tried to use this conversion kit for dry methane (over 85%). The generator could be kicked off but couldn't run continuously. Do you have any suggestions for that? The methane is the main part of natural gas. Thx!
My generator runs on gas and propane. Can I use a natural gas regulator meant for propane grill conversions so they run on natural gas to feed natural gas into the propane intake of the generator? Since it is made to run on propane I don't think valve recession would be an issue 🤔
Bravo! Very few producers of this kind of video are willing to come back, admit mistakes, and fix them. Case in point, you've probably seen that fool from one of the Carolinas who swears up and down that the rest of the planet (except him) are full of it when they criticize him for his no transfer switch, suicide cord method. That having been said... I *believe* this to be true but can't source proof of this. Any engines designed to run on unleaded fuel already have hardened valves and seats. The funny part of this is that virtually all gasoline sold prior to 1975 contained tetra-ethyl lead. One hero of the time, Amoco, sold "Lead-Free Amoco" (presumably marketing to the new focus on clean air). Lead free fuel tends to accelerate the degradation of non-hardened valves. So, do the right thing, get the lead out of your fuel at the time, and ruin your engine prematurely. Then, if you don't see to it quickly, you're polluting more than you would be had you just stuck to leaded fuel.
Charlie Hustle you’re partially correct, engines that run on unleaded gasoline do have hardened valves but, there are different levels of hardness obviously. Any natural gas preparation package on a new vehicle will add in even harder valves and seats and that’s usually specifically stated in the description of the package. Honda for instance will require valve adjustments every 25,000 miles on a natural gas vehicle. Gasoline powered Honda’s are usually about 100,000 miles.
Thank you for the video. Nicely done. I do have a couple of questions about the setup. At 1:30 you are telling about putting a shut off valve that will prevent pulling vacuum into the atmosphere. - Can you please explain what is atmosphere and how does it suck vacuum? what do you mean by vacuum? To my understanding the ball valve could be there to prevent dusty air from entering the engine while running on gasoline as the pressure inside the carburetor is less than atmospheric - a dust cap would be better idea. Another question is why did you mount the regulator upside down? there is a reason why there is an arrow UP showing how it should be mounted. Is there is something other than personal preference that guided you to make that decision. The are tri-fuel generators on the market so people can buy something instead of altering gasoline generators
You are correct it has the potential for contaminates to enter the governor regulator unless you install a valve or a cap on the auxiliary fuel connection. I'm sure even duct tape would work. I keep my valve closed when the generator is in storage- again to keep contaminates out of the governor regulator. No reason you can't use a cap but, you can't loose a ball valve. I have a Garretson KN regulator. Mine does not have an arrow on it. As long as the diaphragm is mounted vertically on mine the orientation does not matter.
@@RepairGeek Duct tape yeah! On Garretson KN 039-122 on the side where prime knob is there are "TOP" letters. I honestly don't know the reason for top, but it might have something to do with gases coming up in the regulator, some element of the valve opening adjusted certain way for gravity, or something simple like you are exposing the two breather holes to rain drops. There was a video with very good explanation how regulator works ruclips.net/video/CfM6D65MC_w/видео.html
Hey there, great videos, thank you. I have a pulsar 9500/12000 dual fuel (LP and Gasoline). My generator states that while on LP, the power output drops to 8,650 watts and it still runs the house including the 4 ton Central Air. I can convert it to Natural Gas for about $120 and I have easy access to a Natural Gas line. My Million Dollar Question is..... How much power loss from the original 9500 watts on gasoline will Natural Gas knock it down to? Thank you and keep the great videos coming :)
I just bought a trifuel champion generator and when I was shopping i noticed that there's a 1000 watt difference between gas, propane, and natural gas.
How can the same regulator be employed for both natural gas and LP when the pressure of LP, when purchased in a tank, is significantly greater than the 7 in. WC of residential natural gas. Great video BTW.
Nice hose. Where did you get the hose? :) I have a 3/8" ID hose on my 3500 watt generator but thinking about going to a bigger 7000 watt one so will need a 1/2" hose. Thanks for the Vid
I’m running a Predator 9500 on natural gas but I can’t get it to run unless I run it on gasoline for a couple of minutes first. Then if I shut it off while running on natural gas I have to repeat the process again to get it to work again. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Hello, great video, very clear and instructive. When you have a minute, is there a problem, natural gas wise, of running the average house gas furnace and the natural gas fed generator off the same natural gas supply to the home?
That depends on your home. In my situation I have no problem running both but, it's dependant on the size of your main, size of the furnace, layout of your piping, size of your generator, and amount of load in the generator. Basically, you need to make sure your system has enough capacity to run both. There are too many variables for me to make a blanket yes or no answer but, it is possible.
I have a tri fuel generator. Just started it using natural gas. It will run on choke, but when I turn it to run it dies out. Should I let it run on choke for a while, or is something wrong?
Are you using a 3/4-inch NG hose? How did you decide on the NG hose diameter? I'm using a 10-foot, 3/8-inch i.d. NG hose on my Sportsman TRIGEN9K tri-fuel gen and it works fine .
Gennies are now being sold prebuilt to run on both now. Much more expensive but easier. My question is, when you crafted that shim for the airbox. Not everyone has a lathe to crc an adapter, do they sell the adapters online or at a store for particular models so you can remount the airbox or do they sell modified air boxes to fit with the conversion?
They don't but, Nash Fuel is aware of my videos and are making revisions to their kits based on what I ran into. You could make that spacer using wood if you want too. I had the means and the tools so I used aluminum. Wood will burn just like the plastic airbox would so I wouldn't worry about using a material that would burn.
Thanks for the reply, I too was thinking a wood spacer of sorts or something similar. But you seem to think a lot like I do myself and want it to look like it was made for the machine and has a clean look. I’m a perfectionist too!
a couple of questions on the long-term stability of that 3d printed adapter. 1. what is the long term chemical compatibility with NG, Propane, gas/ ethenal, and engine oil? 2. fdm 3d prints often have certain amounts of porosity. does this system have any way to deal with this?
Those questions are best directed at Nash Fuel who sells the kit. Since this kit is being sold on a large level I would image they would've done the proper research and engineering to sell this kit.
Great original video and follow up. Sorry if I missed this one, but what amount of natural gas pressure are you getting from your line? Low +/-4 inches of pressure seeme to be a problem with some conversions (LP to NG). Thanks.
Great video! I have a question.. Natural gas per Therm = 29 KWh .. It cost me $1.3 per therm. . It cost me .12c per KWh of city electric. That means that I'm paying $3.48 for 29 KWh of electricity while for the exact equivalent KWh from NG I'd be paying $1.3. That's a HUGE difference in price! But here's what I don't understand.. I read that Natural Gas generators cost around $2/hour to run which would be $48/day. Per KWh it looks that gas would be much cheaper to power my house but $48/day is way more compared to what I pay for in city electric. Can anyone make sense of this for me please? Would I need to transfer the Natural Gas in a more efficient way? Thanks!
As you turned the gas regulator set screw inward I noticed you didn't turn it in far enough to run the engine so rich that it began to sputter....and then back it out just until it ran smooth again. It's best to run an engine on the rich side. If you run an engine lean it causes over heating. Thoughts?
If you go back an watch the other video I started out waaay rich. To the point that the engine would barely run, then slowly leaned out the mixture until I saw 60hz like I did on gasoline. If you watch very closely I went too lean and the hz rate dropped to 59ish and I richened up the mixture again until I was at 60hz. ruclips.net/video/nO839Sayci0/видео.html
@@RepairGeek I guess it could be my mistake...but in my 35 yr+ career as a master plumber, every type of regulator increases it's output by screwing "in" the adjustment screw, adding pressure to the diaphragm so that it takes more pressure to close it when the gas is on. A regulator is full open in it's relaxed position (gas off). In the video, from a lean state, you added pressure (enriching the mixture) till it ran smooth...Where I come from you keep going till it's too rich and sputters....then back it "out" till it runs smooth...thus running on the rich side of the scale. It's just a detail...where the Devil lives. You took the time to make a very good vid... otherwise I wouldn't have watched it.
@@readmore3634 I'm not adjusting the regulator pressure I'm changing the amount of flow on the outlet side. That bolt I was adjusting is literally a bolt in the side of a street elbow. If you run it in flow is reduced. Unthread it and flow increases. There is no adjustment for pressure. Thanks for watching.
@@RepairGeek Got it...well it looked like an adjustment screw... never seen a regulator like that...although I bet that hole in the middle of the casting with the large slotted plug down in there is for a screwdriver adjustment... anyway... I just finished watching another conversion vid and something else struck me...when demand is added to "governed" engines the governor adds fuel mixture to compensate.... otherwise it will run lean and that can cause overheating. Without fuel running through the needle valve...how does this configuration deal with this? Thanks
@@readmore3634 the way the carb spacer is designed it pulls a slight vacuumm on the diaphragm inside the governor regulator. When engine load increases the throttle plate opens more. This increases airflow over the carb spacer. When more vacuum is put on the regulator the diaphragm opens more and increases fuel flow.
It's all depend on the " Usage ". If you use more " Electric ", then more Propane use. If you use less, then less Propane. The Regulator is designed to " Fluctuate " according to usage. On an average for us, it's about 15lbs for 2-6 Hours during Power Outage.
Is it ok to run the oil u recommended ins generator small engine as it is rated 15w40 ? Seems thick ok for large I Engines? And I live in mi where in winter it can get to -20 to -35 below sometimes though rarely. I also have well pump like you. Thanks for the great information and videos. Really well done. Also, manuals on the Honda’s and other small engines call for oil changes like every 24 hours of use or more whats your opinion on that? And do you suggest synthetics for these types If engines ? If so right off the bat or after some breakin? Same question in regards to spark plug change and valve adjustment schedules? Thanks again
I wouldn't stress about the weight of the oil that much. Most small engines require a straight 30 weight oil. A 15w-40 flows like a 15 weight when it's cold and flows like a 40 weight when it's hot. Personally I just use a normal 10w-30 that you can get anywhere. I may switch in the future but, I only have about 2.5 hours on natural gas. If you're truely concerned, just run the oil recommended by the manufacturer. I know you can extend out your oil change interval using natural gas. The oil stays much cleaner because the fuel burns much cleaner. The same goes for spark plug changes. What those intervals are I have no idea. It depends on the engine and # of hours etc. The best way to determine if you can use an extended interval is have the used oil analyzed by Blackstone. I would probably just check the valve adjustment after about 100 hours or so. I doubt you'd have a valve issue before 1000 hours. You'll know when it needs to be adjusted. The engine will be hard to start or run like crap.
So you said you wouldn't buy the kit again and just buy the regular and make the spacer. What's so special about the spacer and what is the model of your regulator. These seem to be the most crucial pieces. I would like to make my 8750w (390 clone) predator a tri-fuel so I'm looking for some pointers of parts to get and that spacer info as well. Thank you in advance.
Regulator: amzn.to/36OOCyF The spacer need to pull a vacuum on the line going to the regulator to get the diaphragm to open. Basically the inlet to the spacer needs to be slightly smaller than the outlet side. The outlet side need the fuel delivery. Check my original video for close up shots of the spacer.
You can get Chinese carburetors for many small engines that have the inlet tube for the propane/natural gas built into the carb, and they hang the demand regulator off of the carb. Probably sell one for the gx390 clone. I was looking for one to mount to flathead 5hp Briggs and Stratton engines, but those are not popular engines for our friends in the PRC to copy. I’ll have to make an adapter for my “Honda” carb to the Briggs engines and then hope the jetting works if I ever want to use gasoline on them as they’re set up. $30-50. For the whole shebang from various suppliers. Probably not as nice or well built as the demand regulator that is shown in this video.
Does a brand new (never used yet) generator need to run on gas for a few hours first before you start running on nat gas? Or can you immediately start using nat gas. Not sure if engine needs to break in before conversion. Thank you
I have a 17500 watt gen, on gasoline works great for my home 4ton Ac, but on NG, wont pick up the Ac, can i add a little bit of gasoline together to compensate the lack of power?
I have a question which many sorts of people haven't been able to answer hope someone can help. I am running a small food truck and have two appliances that need to be running off of my generator. Bought a EF2800i Yamaha generator it does the job when its stationary as it is a carburetor engine but as soon as I drive the petrol is obviously jumping around and the appliances are turning off as im assuming that power is being cut out due to the engine type. Spoke to a professional and he recommended a fuel injected petrol generator, spoke to lawnmower repair guy and he reckons that a gas operated generator will eliminate the fuel issue and will allow the appliances to run without turning off. My question is if a gas generator is in motion meaning while im driving will it continue tio run my appliances without then turning off?
1" I'm running a 80,000 BTU garage heater off the same line as the generator. I don't use both at the same time. Could have gotten by with just 3/4" but the price difference was like $.10 a 10ft stick and I'd rather go overkill than chance it when the price difference is that cheap.
@@RepairGeek Thanks! I'm contemplating sharing the 3/4" line off my tankless water heater for the same purpose. Since the generator would only be used for outages I think this will be perfect.. I'm fortunate because the 3/4 off the 1 1/4" mainline isn't too far so I think I'm ok but I'll double check with the charts you posted. BTW, your garage is nice with the lift etc. Appreciate your content.
Pat yourself on the back, you did GREAT. I don't own a GenSet yet, if I ever need one I'm buying a dual fuel one from the get go but it was very cool of you making a video about it. Great content ! Good work !
Thanks for the updated video. I viewed your first video at the beginning of the year, 2020. Glad to come across your update on this mod. I purchased a 9K gen and I'm also converting to NG by the fall. Great content. I'm not personally worried about the valve recession issue. Like you said it'll take 1K if hours to notice a run issue. Didn't know of specialized oil for NG or Propane. But, makes sense for autos that are exclusive to this type of fuel supply. I'll definitely change over to that oil once I check the additive package difference's. I wonder if Zinc percentages were increased? Do you use cap covers over your quick connects when stored? Thanks for contributing, Subscribed!
I bought some of the oil. The packaging doesn't state anything about high zinc. I haven't had any outages since the oil change. If I get some good run time on the oil I may send it out for analysis. I've got about 8 hours runtime on the NG conversion over 2.5 years. Not a ton but, that's all the outages I've had. Works well, no regrets at all.
@@RepairGeek Excellent. I've only had to fire up the the gen 2 times sense buying it. I run it 2 times a month for about 10-15 minutes just to keep the fuel moving and fresh. All of course using a fuel stabilizer. I'm slowly reducing adding fuel in prep for NG conversion. I imagine you keep the tank empty until gas is need for what ever reason. But, during seasonal changes you will have condensation build up in the tank. What do you use to compensate for moisture within the tank? I'm considering a moisture pack. Large ones like used in shipping containers to reduce or eliminate that issue. We certainly don't want our tanks to rust. Suggestions or ideas? Thx.
@@eddylee587 I dont do anything. I just drained all the gasoline and drained the carburetor bowl and ignore it. I've had no issues. You could use the generator's fuel tank as a gas can if you wanted just to cut down on moisture but its rather inconvenient. Or just leave the fuel cap loose so air can go in and out.
RG, I keep think about this application because I have a need for a tri-fuel system in my future. I already have a genset and need to convert it. Question: Would a two stage regulator like the type used in Oxy/acetylene welding do the trick? It is adjustable to allow for pressure regulation.. What do you think?
I'm sure that style of regulator should work but, natural gas isn't the place to tell your self, "This should work". Honestly I would only use something designed for this application. The regulator that I showed in the video will shut off all gas flow if the engine stalls for some reason. I doubt that style of regulator would do the same thing. Will it flow enough natural gas to let the engine run properly? It seems like to many safety issues and unknowns just to save $50 to me.
You need to be looking at what the regulator looking thing he attached to the generator is doing. It’s a “demand” regulator that uses intake vacuum to control gas flow into the engine. A pressure regulator won’t be helpful, since it won’t change with demand from the engine intake. Pressure regulator is needed to take high pressure LP gas and drop it to the pressure that the rest of the system works at. Too much pressure, and that demand regulator will no longer work right and you won’t have control of your air/fuel mix. Propane conversion kits tend to come with a simple regulator like on a bbq grill that drops pressure for you at the appliance to 1/2 psi, which is about what natural gas pressure in your house is (anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 psi in most cases).
Great video - I'm planning to do almost exactly what you did. I can't find any links to where you got the ports/fittings into and out or the house for the gas and electric. Did I miss that?
@@RepairGeek Hey yes I've clicked on every link but I don't see the white covers that go over your siding to make the connections look like yours. Are those just generic items? I see they resemble those used for mounting lighting to your house but not quite
Excellent videos - thank you. I am trying to prepare for an outage due to an earthquake and thus, I want a tri-fuel conversion kit assuming NG might not be available. I am doing a portable instead of a whole home standby because of that reason and I can stockpile some propane. According to Generac, propane will produce clean power for electronics without an inverter. Otherwise, they said to buy a generator with an inverter/clean power for electronics. I am wondering how far of a hose I can use for natural gas? Did you also try switching from gas and NG to propane? I am looking at a Powermate (generac built) dual fuel propane and gasoline and it will require less conversion to add natural gas. Or I will buy a tri-fuel for a generac generator just because they are so much cheaper than Honda, but better than the rest. Any recommendations?
The size of your hose depends on the size of your generator and the around of load it's under. Larger diameter hose will allow you to run larger units at longer distances from the meter but, the answer to that question is not simple. You need to check the sizing charts listed in the description of the original video. To run a generator that was designed to run on propane on natural gas you need to increase the fuel flow. How you go about doing that? That depends on what you're working with. I bought a standard generator and a tri-fuel kit because I knew it would work. Could you get a dual fuel to run on natural gas, sure. But, without making those modifications myself I can't really speak on how to do it.
@@RepairGeek Thanks for the quick reply. I will check out the table and also check with the gas contractor. Did you switch from propane and NG without any issues with a tri-fuel? Did you consider whether there is an effect of the quality of the clean electric power of the different generator models or different fuel as claimed by Generac? They said propane was clean power or I needed to buy the Generac models that had their clean power.
@@davidcloward9518 to run propane you need an additional regulator on the bottle to reduce the bottle pressure. Most people use a regulator designed for a propane grill. I've never ran mine on propane just because I don't have a reason to. The rest of the setup is the same. You will have to adjust the fuel bolt on the outlet of the governor regulator each time you want to go from propane to NG. (The energy per cubic foot is different.) As far as clean power, mine has a harmonic distortion of less than 6%. Your utility power is less than 5%. An inverter will almost always put out cleaner power than a traditional generator but, with an inverter, your maximum wattage will be much lower for the same money. I think Generac is claiming the power is "cleaner" because the engine runs smoother on alternative fuels than gasoline. That in it self would reduce the spikes in the AC sign-wave and any generator would run smoother on alternative fuel. Generac or not. You can find clean power models for cheaper than what Generac wants for one. If you need more information send me an email: repairgeek365@gmail.com
Stupid question; I have free natural gas on my land, I’m building a few tiny home cabins; is there a way to power all three with one generator similar to your generator? And also do you keep it running non stop or only when you need it?
A 5 or 7 kW generator should do the job, but I would get a permanent stationary generator installed instead of a portable one like this. I would also size the generator so that it runs at about half load or so on a regular basis. I would also opt for a three phase generator seeing as you have 3 separate buildings you want to power.
im british so forgive me we dont really do this my question is how do you backfeed the house i understand the concept of it but wouldnt this mean at some point at either side of the proccess your left with a cable potentially at mains voltage with metal prongs sticking out ready to zap you either when on generator the end of the extension cable (edit maybe not a issue if its female on the end?) or when back on mains the generator side of the cable (edit upon reflection id imagine this couldnt happen due to the interlock on the breaker) or is there specific cables and connectors for setting up a backfeed system
Okay there are multiple RUclips videos on how to do this. Just search: generator interlock kit I have no idea if this is code in Britain but, this is how it works: You have an outlet outside your home that accepts 240v from your generator. This plug is male, the extension chord is female. This outlet has a cover. As shown in the original generator video. The outlet on the outside of the house is wired to a breaker that can only be turned on when the main breaker is turned off. (Interlocked with the main breaker) This way it's impossible that the outside outlet has power while the main breaker is on. So, this male plug on the outside of the house cannot have power on it unless its in use. This interlock kit is visible when the door is open on my electrical panel. It is on the top right breaker. As far as the wattage meter. The wiring runs behind the gauges and goes through two miniature amperage clamps (like clamp style multimeter) before the power wires terminate at the interlocked breaker. The breakers that are used are just normal breakers, you size the wiring to the size of your generator and your breaker. A 7500 watt generator will power about 30 amps at 240 volts. The maker of your electrical panel should offer an interlock kit. It just depends on the brand of panel you have. 50amp outlets are available if you need more wattage. These are the parts that I have for the interlock: Interlock kit: amzn.to/2xw9Zor Outside outlet: amzn.to/2xzv9Ce wattage meter: amzn.to/2QVoeew
ahhh i see now so the outlet of the generator is female the extension cord is normal and terminates also at female the house has a male but with the interlock theres no way to energise those prongs and hurt yourself thankyou for explaining interlocking isnt really somethingn we do in the uk mostly because we dont really have storms and the weather you guys have and with the way we run our power its mostly underground apart from when it goes long distance via the pylons (which are taller than trees) so power outages are a verry rare event the only places i know of that do simmilar would be large hospitals and schools that have hardwired systems but t hanks for explaining that too me i was wondering how it wired together
No problem. There are a ton of different ways to power your house during an outage. Interlocking is quick, cheap, and flexible as far as what you can power.
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Part 1:
How To Convert Your Generator To Natural Gas or Propane ruclips.net/video/nO839Sayci0/видео.html
Product Links:
Vented Fuel Jugs: amzn.to/2CY5IiT
Valvoline Natural Gas Motor Oil: amzn.to/2Ql7jnU
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InstaBlaster
I was a propane carburetion technician for 10 years, had a full shop Dino 4 gas analyzer and converted engines everyday, it's nice to see it is still being done even after new regulations. Looks like you're spot-on that conversion good job.
I worked for an lp gas company for years and all their service trucks ran on LP / gasoline and we put well over 200, thousand miles on them, they burn cleaner and didn't give not one minute trouble,
We actually tore on down once
( Ford 360 ) and it looked like new inside, not even a wear ring at top of cylinder, cross hatch was still there,,
Great way to go on a generator. Last forever..
What engine did those trucks have and are they high maintenance
For those wondering why run on NG rather than propane: If you intend to be prepared for a lengthy outage, then the amount of propane you can store on site becomes an issue. There may be city or HOA restrictions. Then you have to deal with how to get propane tanks refilled when trucks are held up by the storm and everyone else is lined up to refill at the same time. One other note. Propane tanks get colder as the liquid evaporates. At 7000 watts, you're likely pushing the limit of how many cubic feet per hour you can get from a 20lb tank at zero degrees or below. You may need dual tanks, tank heaters or something larger. If the tank is larger, there are more rules about where it can be situated. If you don't want to worry about that tank running dry during the night, you'll want an auto changeover setup like on an RV. So I'm treating propane as the 3rd option with an inverter up first to cover the initial day, followed by the generator on NG and propane last. I agree about not cutting the frame. I used some angle iron to shift the engine mounts far enough horizontally to make room for the air box.
This is the exact setup I have, only difference is my engine is a Yamaha - I have not had to really test it here in NJ yet - but i start it 2x a year just to make sure it works - Zero problems...Great video
Awesome info thank you very much !! Dealing with this power outage in NJ right now all this is a God's gift to us
What a lot of people dont understand is that a internal combustion engine will run on anything that is flammable! You did fine my friend!
Thank you for the spot-on information. I'll be converting my Generac GP7000E first chance I get. Last outage we went through 20 plus gallons of gas at $3.88/gallon. At $160 for the conversion kit on amazon, (less the natural gas) I'll break even after 41.2 gallons of gas, plus the converting it over fun...plus, screw the refilling at 4am! You always have informative and useful videos, thanks again!
I just scored a new-ish 5000w generator from my neighbor because is was leaking gas, I converted it to tri-fuel for the same price
as carb overhaul parts, I ran it on NG out of my garage line, Oh it's so nice, Never having to haul gas home, No gas going bad each year,
I don't have to add fuel stabilizer, No gunking carb, I'm just going to stick with NG and propane.
I have the same conversion kit, and like you I like the conversion kit because your generator becomes tri-fuel instead of just propane and liquid gas models.
Two Comments:
Vacuum leak - Will not affect the fuel/air ratio when running on gasoline as it is external to the carburetor and the vacuum leak sensitive portion of the intake system. That said, it is possible to draw some unfiltered air into the engine through the (now) open natural gas connection so that would be bad.
So, valve you installed has a purpose.
Power Back on Detector - I use a device from Relaince (the same folks who made your power meter) called a PowerBack (Utility Power Return Alert). It is battery powered and can be armed when you turn on your backup generator. It monitors the incoming mains and sets off a (disturbingly) loud alarm when the utility power is back on. I expect it is extra loud to be heard over generator noise. You can find it on Amazon by searching for PowerBack.
You could also just alligator clip a cheap 120V siren/alarm ($13.50) and when the power comes back it will go off even though the rest of the box is off line power.
www.amazon.com/Industrial-110dB-MS-190-Alarm-Buzzer/dp/B00IJ678Q6/ref=asc_df_B00IJ678Q6
@@SomnoNaut Neither a great nor safe idea and surely against any north american electrical code. (Gauge of any wire must be able to safely take the entire load of the breaker that it's connected to, otherwise it's a fire risk). The PowerBack noted above use an induction coil or similar to connect to the mains. i.e not a direct connection)
Thank you my Buckeye brother! Excellent info follow-up! Did not know about the possible valve and seat issues. I am not really that concerned as I hopefully only will run on NG for very short stints when power goes out. Thanks again for sharing. It is very much appreciated. Cheers from Michigan.
Great original build-out video and followup video. I had a few questions watching the first one, found the link to this one and you answered all of them. Thank you!
Thanks for discussing the valves on gas vs liquid and the possibility of valve conversion and motor oil.
I have a dual fuel generator! Both fuels work. The propane is less of a hassle and cleaner burning and better on oil changes and cleanliness of the oil. You don’t have the mess of gasoline and propane is cheaper to run. Fork trucks have been on propane for decades and much safer while working inside a warehouse!
Thank-you for the videos they are both very informative and good information. As an electronics guy I'd note that although you are only slightly off of 60Hz this will cause items with clocks to be off or loose time as they run on your system. This coincidently is also why on Gass you noticed the Flickr of the lights it was further off from 60Hz I believe I noticed 57.xHz anyway having power and alternative methods of getting it is great and the main point. Thank-you and good work keep it going :)
Good point. Three of our clocks speed up, when running on Gen power. From what I can tell, about 1 min. faster each hour on Gen power.
I know I am 3years late telling you this but with most of your comments. Including valve recession. The only comment I want to add is valve recession is only a problem with cast iron valve seats. Most overhead valve engines used in generators have aluminum heads and already have hardened valve seats.
Hey RG, thanks for the video. I've been looking for info on maintinance for LP/propane generators. I understand your point regarding the hardened valve seats you mentioned. But I don't use my generator too often to worry about that, but it sits in storage for extended periods of time and I'm not sure if I need to do anything to make sure it's going to work when I need it. Thanks for the help in advance.!
I have done the conversion but I don't use gasoline. It is good to know that I can. I have a powerhorse 7,000 and also have my natural gas connection outside and my breaker box outside.
wow never thought about hardened valves/seats for dry fuel. makes total sense. thanks.
Good video. Learn something new every day like Natural Gas Motor Oil.
Someone expressed a concern about running out of natural gas and having to return to gasoline. If your natural gas supply is pumped to your house, it won't run out for months or years. Natural gas comes out of the ground under pressure. The gas companies store surplus by pumping it into huge underground reservoirs sufficient for months or years. The distribution systems are controlled electrically, but the gas companies have generators fueled by (wait for it) natural gas. If you get your gas (natural or propane) is delivered by truck, chances are good those trucks are fueled by the same type of gas they are delivering.
All good info. In my area the majority of the houses are heated by natural gas. Natural gas outages are like you said slim and outages in the winter are almost noon existent. The comments in these videos are full of 'internet engineers'. So, thank you for injecting some common sense.
Repair Geek I was wondering since your using natural gas if you should use a drop leg at the gas inlet on the generator to catch any sediment that may come through the gas line There should be a drop leg on a nat. Gas furnace and gas water heater on a portable generator I don’t really know. Just to keep crap out of your engine. Good video.
@@crossbow3539 I have a drip leg inside the wall before the quick connect fitting on the gas line.
As a natural gas company tech I can tell you that not all companies have natural gas fired back up generators. I worked a huge outage in New Mexico years ago and people were without gas for weeks. I know it’s crazy but it’s reality. Second if the power grid goes down and the compressors are not working to maintain pressure in the distribution lines, the gas in the lines will be depleted quickly ( in hours) by furnaces etc running on gen power. Once the existing gas pressure is below a pound or two it will start sucking air into the distribution piping. Once that happens you won’t have gas in the lines again until we purge the air out and replace it with gas once the grid is up again.
Where I live, for the past 16+ years. Anytime we have Power Outage, we ALWAYS have Gas. The Company that supply our Gas, have Gas Generators Back Up.... Hahahahahaha, they are the Gas Company! LOL
Thank you so much for such In-Depth information. All my questions were answered - and then some!!
Now to get off my butt and get working!!
Thanks again!
After converting mine, a HF Predator 8750, I started reading about "valve recession", because unless the valves are hardened, the lack of lubrication and cooling from the gasoline, wear and tear will be added at a considerable rate. As for me, I still like the idea, but next time I will get an engine that can be converted. HF's are very basic and hardened valves are not available for it.
I was just about to modify my brand new generator (never used so far) to natural gas but I am concerned about the fact that gas runs the engine very dry, especially valve seats and stems. I must come up with an answer to that or I will face some parts of the engine running hotter than they should. In the old days, we used to have lead in the fuel which would deposit on the valve seats and guides creating a protective coating, with the advent of unleaded they have come up with some substitute additives but with gas, we would non benefit from either of those. I appreciate your comment on this as I have not seen mention of this problem in any of the videos online so far
Another excellent video. The best part is at 6:17
What size (diameter) natural gas line will I need to run natural gas 35 ft. to my generator 3/8", 1/2", or 3/4"?
Now I wish we had natural gas in my area and propane is very expensive so gas it is. Great video.
You can make your own. And I don't mean by farting into a balloon! Look up Bio-gas generator (methane, i.e. natural gas, or CH4, is a byproduct of anaerobic digestion by bacteria).
So when You are setting the RPM with your fuel mixture, Should you set that a zero load, full load, or half load? Seems like setting it at half load or higher may give you better performance at those loads.
Very helpful, thank you. A question - I have new Champion 7500w Dual Fuel (gasoline/LPG) Portable Generator. I also have natural gas to my home and therefore accessible for use in place of LPG. What modifications must I make to my generator to allow it to run on natural gas, and can I easily switch back and forth between LPG and natural gas if needed? Thanks
I have converted 3 different gasoline generators from 6k to 86k to 15k watts to natural gas over the years and still can default to gasoline if necessary.
Thanks for the video. I especially enjoyed the mic drop at 6:17.
Both videos are very informative - Thanks.
So I installed the snorkel kit from US corporation. I planned natural gas to the unit. I’ve drained the gas tank of gas, because I don’t anticipate using gas further. This is my question… Do I simply turn the gas shut off… to Off...(To prevent a vacuum leak?) Thereafter, I assume I’m sad to transition over to natural gas in tune the block adjustment. Thanks to repair geek for the detailed video!!
Yes just turn the gasoline valve off.
I liked your review. I do have a technical question that I've wondered about and haven't found an answer to. That's this; purpose built backup generators such as Generac and Kohler have deeper oil sumps with replaceable oil filters and sometimes oil filters. They are able to run for very extended times without changing the oil. On the other hand, portable generators require frequent oil changes. Have you heard of a way to connect an external oil supply and/or cooler to a portable generators in a semi-fixed position?
You can't add a filter to a portable unit. The portable uses a splash lubricated system. So the crankshaft and connecting rod dip into the oil and splash it around inside the motor.
You can't splash oil through a filter. Engines with filters have oil pumps and have pressure lubrication. They are 2 totally different systems. In any case your oil will stay much cleaner on NG or propane than what they would gasoline.
@@RepairGeek Kinda what I thought. I couldn't figure a way to keep the proper level of oil in the crankcase for the splash lubrication to work as designed.
Thanks for the quick reply tho'.
Thank you for these videos, I'm taking the plunge and doing the same!
Good info. I don't want to be that 1 in a million. Thanks for responding to "constructive criticism. "
Thoughts on being able to operate this INSIDE a well-ventilated garage while on natural gas? A ventless heater up to 35k BTU can be used indoors, so I guess it would depend on the amount of natural gas being burned by your setup.
Actually if you go back to the previous Video where you installed the convertion kit the generator without the kit was surging running on Gas, alone with the kit installed please notice the dryer on low as before it is not surging the meters are holding steady .
HighVoltage 1200 correct. It was much warmer outside when I shot this video. In the previous video, the generator was running slightly lean due to the colder more dense air during the winter. This video was shot about a week ago.
You have not addressed starting the motor with a natural gas regulator. Someone else said a person needs to
push the little spring on the back of the regulator while trying to start it. Is this true? If so, it's very hard to do if you're trying to pull a cord
Awesome video... got to love those "experts"
Can you make a video or comment on how to run this generator on LP gas? Is it just another regulator on the LP tank? Thanks.
Yes. And you probably have to adjust your air fuel ratio like he did at the beginning. I have a $30 Chinese version of this that I have planned to connect to my lawn mower, and I think they have some sort of switch that adjusts the orafice size between propane and natural gas built in.
Do you think you could make a dual fuel generator (Gas/LP) run on Natural Gas by using the LP Gas input on the generator instead of inserting at the carb? Using a Natural Gas regulator...
What elbow did you use? To connect the shut off to the convertor?
Ha! Love that look at 6:20 "whats good!? Howd ya like that!" Dude you are a boss
You have a giant shop with lift. Holy cow Im jealous
Awesome video, im just about to convert my generator, but one question i had is, what would happen if the generator stalls for some reason, say it senses a low oil pressure and stops running, does the gas continue to flow?
The governor regulator on the generator stops flow if the engine stalls.
I'll just say a couple of things here. First off, I strongly recommend that you either put a secure access box over the pipe and valve. This will keep others from messing with it and or turning the valve on, ESPECIALLY kids. Either that or have an easily accessible shut off inside where it is secure (in the house or in the garage if you lock it). Forgive me if you already know this and have done it, but if you have done this work yourself, you should have a qualified plumber or pipe fitter to inspect your work and tag the work as approved. Otherwise, if there is a fire, your fire insurance may not cover the damages. The other thing to note for you and your viewers is that this kind of work cannot be legally done by a "layperson" (not trained and licensed) if it is a rental home, a duplex, or multiple housing. So far as rental, I'm guessing that means the person renting the home not the owner.
The end of the pipe has a quick disconnect fitting which prevents gas from escaping even when the valve is open. He just closes the valve while it’s still running and connected to pull everything from the hose.
RG, The only question I have is re: gas / propane pressure. Isn't natural gas at your house at a much lower pressure than propane from a bottle? Would I need to put an additional regulator between a propane source and the gas regulator on the genset to account for this?
Thanks and I am glad I found these gen mod videos. They are very informative and easy to follow.
Yes you're correct check the other video at about 21:40
ruclips.net/video/nO839Sayci0/видео.html
Thanks, I missed that some how.
Valvoline Premium Blue One Solution 9200 SAE 10W-30
What are the pros and cons of using this oil when
running on natural gas?
Anybody used it with a 7000W Champion Inverter? Thanks!
I tried to use this conversion kit for dry methane (over 85%). The generator could be kicked off but couldn't run continuously. Do you have any suggestions for that? The methane is the main part of natural gas. Thx!
My generator runs on gas and propane. Can I use a natural gas regulator meant for propane grill conversions so they run on natural gas to feed natural gas into the propane intake of the generator? Since it is made to run on propane I don't think valve recession would be an issue 🤔
what if you want to run propane where would you find the orifice or change it out
Bravo! Very few producers of this kind of video are willing to come back, admit mistakes, and fix them. Case in point, you've probably seen that fool from one of the Carolinas who swears up and down that the rest of the planet (except him) are full of it when they criticize him for his no transfer switch, suicide cord method. That having been said...
I *believe* this to be true but can't source proof of this. Any engines designed to run on unleaded fuel already have hardened valves and seats. The funny part of this is that virtually all gasoline sold prior to 1975 contained tetra-ethyl lead. One hero of the time, Amoco, sold "Lead-Free Amoco" (presumably marketing to the new focus on clean air). Lead free fuel tends to accelerate the degradation of non-hardened valves. So, do the right thing, get the lead out of your fuel at the time, and ruin your engine prematurely. Then, if you don't see to it quickly, you're polluting more than you would be had you just stuck to leaded fuel.
Charlie Hustle you’re partially correct, engines that run on unleaded gasoline do have hardened valves but, there are different levels of hardness obviously. Any natural gas preparation package on a new vehicle will add in even harder valves and seats and that’s usually specifically stated in the description of the package. Honda for instance will require valve adjustments every 25,000 miles on a natural gas vehicle. Gasoline powered Honda’s are usually about 100,000 miles.
@@RepairGeekThanks for helping me wrap my head around that. I knew there was something there, but couldn't articulate it.
Nice work you're doing!
I have a duel fuel champion generator which is gas and propane would this generator come with harden valves and seats because of the propane feature?
Thank you for the video. Nicely done. I do have a couple of questions about the setup. At 1:30 you are telling about putting a shut off valve that will prevent pulling vacuum into the atmosphere. - Can you please explain what is atmosphere and how does it suck vacuum? what do you mean by vacuum? To my understanding the ball valve could be there to prevent dusty air from entering the engine while running on gasoline as the pressure inside the carburetor is less than atmospheric - a dust cap would be better idea. Another question is why did you mount the regulator upside down? there is a reason why there is an arrow UP showing how it should be mounted. Is there is something other than personal preference that guided you to make that decision. The are tri-fuel generators on the market so people can buy something instead of altering gasoline generators
You are correct it has the potential for contaminates to enter the governor regulator unless you install a valve or a cap on the auxiliary fuel connection. I'm sure even duct tape would work. I keep my valve closed when the generator is in storage- again to keep contaminates out of the governor regulator. No reason you can't use a cap but, you can't loose a ball valve.
I have a Garretson KN regulator. Mine does not have an arrow on it. As long as the diaphragm is mounted vertically on mine the orientation does not matter.
@@RepairGeek Duct tape yeah! On Garretson KN 039-122 on the side where prime knob is there are "TOP" letters. I honestly don't know the reason for top, but it might have something to do with gases coming up in the regulator, some element of the valve opening adjusted certain way for gravity, or something simple like you are exposing the two breather holes to rain drops. There was a video with very good explanation how regulator works ruclips.net/video/CfM6D65MC_w/видео.html
Well done again.
Hey there, great videos, thank you. I have a pulsar 9500/12000 dual fuel (LP and Gasoline). My generator states that while on LP, the power output drops to 8,650 watts and it still runs the house including the 4 ton Central Air. I can convert it to Natural Gas for about $120 and I have easy access to a Natural Gas line. My Million Dollar Question is..... How much power loss from the original 9500 watts on gasoline will Natural Gas knock it down to? Thank you and keep the great videos coming :)
I just bought a trifuel champion generator and when I was shopping i noticed that there's a 1000 watt difference between gas, propane, and natural gas.
How can the same regulator be employed for both natural gas and LP when the pressure of LP, when purchased in a tank, is significantly greater than the 7 in. WC of residential natural gas. Great video BTW.
A propane setup needs another regulator on the tank. It's the same regulator that's on your propane grill.
Nice hose. Where did you get the hose? :) I have a 3/8" ID hose on my 3500 watt generator but thinking about going to a bigger 7000 watt one so will need a 1/2" hose. Thanks for the Vid
I’m running a Predator 9500 on natural gas but I can’t get it to run unless I run it on gasoline for a couple of minutes first. Then if I shut it off while running on natural gas I have to repeat the process again to get it to work again. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Thoughts on reducing the noise, maybe a different muffler
Hello, great video, very clear and instructive. When you have a minute, is there a problem, natural gas wise, of running the average house gas furnace and the natural gas fed generator off the same natural gas supply to the home?
That depends on your home. In my situation I have no problem running both but, it's dependant on the size of your main, size of the furnace, layout of your piping, size of your generator, and amount of load in the generator. Basically, you need to make sure your system has enough capacity to run both. There are too many variables for me to make a blanket yes or no answer but, it is possible.
@@RepairGeek thanks, it doesn't seem to be a common problem, but could be. I will keep aware. Thanks again.
Does it make a diff if you have 5lb gas meter instead of 2lb..have large meter for pool heater
Is there any lack of power when pulling a load with the natural gas versus gasoline ?
Superb video, thank you.
I have a tri fuel generator. Just started it using natural gas. It will run on choke, but when I turn it to run it dies out. Should I let it run on choke for a while, or is something wrong?
I bought a tri fuel generator but now I need a pressure regulator. How do I choose the proper regulator?
Did you split the difference on the different spark plug gaps between gasoline and NG?
I never touched the plug. It's been fine.
Are you using a 3/4-inch NG hose? How did you decide on the NG hose diameter? I'm using a 10-foot, 3/8-inch i.d. NG hose on my Sportsman TRIGEN9K tri-fuel gen and it works fine .
I used 1/2" id. It depends on the length and the size of the generator.
Gennies are now being sold prebuilt to run on both now. Much more expensive but easier.
My question is, when you crafted that shim for the airbox. Not everyone has a lathe to crc an adapter, do they sell the adapters online or at a store for particular models so you can remount the airbox or do they sell modified air boxes to fit with the conversion?
They don't but, Nash Fuel is aware of my videos and are making revisions to their kits based on what I ran into.
You could make that spacer using wood if you want too. I had the means and the tools so I used aluminum. Wood will burn just like the plastic airbox would so I wouldn't worry about using a material that would burn.
Thanks for the reply, I too was thinking a wood spacer of sorts or something similar. But you seem to think a lot like I do myself and want it to look like it was made for the machine and has a clean look. I’m a perfectionist too!
@@alteregos8949 Wood, soak it in fuel resistant epoxy to stabilize it.
a couple of questions on the long-term stability of that 3d printed adapter.
1. what is the long term chemical compatibility with NG, Propane, gas/ ethenal, and engine oil?
2. fdm 3d prints often have certain amounts of porosity. does this system have any way to deal with this?
Those questions are best directed at Nash Fuel who sells the kit. Since this kit is being sold on a large level I would image they would've done the proper research and engineering to sell this kit.
Great original video and follow up. Sorry if I missed this one, but what amount of natural gas pressure are you getting from your line? Low +/-4 inches of pressure seeme to be a problem with some conversions (LP to NG). Thanks.
The regulator on my meter is 6-8” W.C.
@@RepairGeek Thanks! That data will drive my project. Keep up the good work. (The garage looks good with sheetrock). Cheers.
@@thewds haha it's a little more finished now than in this video. Thanks for watching.
Great video! I have a question..
Natural gas per Therm = 29 KWh ..
It cost me $1.3 per therm. .
It cost me .12c per KWh of city electric.
That means that I'm paying $3.48 for 29 KWh of electricity
while for the exact equivalent KWh from NG I'd be paying $1.3.
That's a HUGE difference in price! But here's what I don't understand..
I read that Natural Gas generators cost around $2/hour to run which would be $48/day.
Per KWh it looks that gas would be much cheaper to power my house but $48/day is way more compared to what I pay for in city electric. Can anyone make sense of this for me please? Would I need to transfer the Natural Gas in a more efficient way? Thanks!
As you turned the gas regulator set screw inward I noticed you didn't turn it in far enough to run the engine so rich that it began to sputter....and then back it out just until it ran smooth again. It's best to run an engine on the rich side. If you run an engine lean it causes over heating. Thoughts?
If you go back an watch the other video I started out waaay rich. To the point that the engine would barely run, then slowly leaned out the mixture until I saw 60hz like I did on gasoline. If you watch very closely I went too lean and the hz rate dropped to 59ish and I richened up the mixture again until I was at 60hz.
ruclips.net/video/nO839Sayci0/видео.html
@@RepairGeek I guess it could be my mistake...but in my 35 yr+ career as a master plumber, every type of regulator increases it's output by screwing "in" the adjustment screw, adding pressure to the diaphragm so that it takes more pressure to close it when the gas is on. A regulator is full open in it's relaxed position (gas off). In the video, from a lean state, you added pressure (enriching the mixture) till it ran smooth...Where I come from you keep going till it's too rich and sputters....then back it "out" till it runs smooth...thus running on the rich side of the scale. It's just a detail...where the Devil lives.
You took the time to make a very good vid... otherwise I wouldn't have watched it.
@@readmore3634 I'm not adjusting the regulator pressure I'm changing the amount of flow on the outlet side. That bolt I was adjusting is literally a bolt in the side of a street elbow. If you run it in flow is reduced. Unthread it and flow increases. There is no adjustment for pressure. Thanks for watching.
@@RepairGeek Got it...well it looked like an adjustment screw... never seen a regulator like that...although I bet that hole in the middle of the casting with the large slotted plug down in there is for a screwdriver adjustment... anyway...
I just finished watching another conversion vid and something else struck me...when demand is added to "governed" engines the governor adds fuel mixture to compensate.... otherwise it will run lean and that can cause overheating. Without fuel running through the needle valve...how does this configuration deal with this? Thanks
@@readmore3634 the way the carb spacer is designed it pulls a slight vacuumm on the diaphragm inside the governor regulator. When engine load increases the throttle plate opens more. This increases airflow over the carb spacer. When more vacuum is put on the regulator the diaphragm opens more and increases fuel flow.
if you are running on Propane , i would like to know how much of propane it will take to run the generator for one hour ?
It's all depend on the " Usage ". If you use more " Electric ", then more Propane use. If you use less, then less Propane. The Regulator is designed to " Fluctuate " according to usage. On an average for us, it's about 15lbs for 2-6 Hours during Power Outage.
Is it ok to run the oil u recommended ins generator small engine as it is rated 15w40 ? Seems thick ok for large I
Engines? And I live in mi where in winter it can get to -20 to -35 below sometimes though rarely. I also have well pump like you. Thanks for the great information and videos. Really well done. Also, manuals on the Honda’s and other small engines call for oil changes like every 24 hours of use or more whats your opinion on that? And do you suggest synthetics for these types If engines ? If so right off the bat or after some breakin? Same question in regards to spark plug change and valve adjustment schedules?
Thanks again
I wouldn't stress about the weight of the oil that much. Most small engines require a straight 30 weight oil. A 15w-40 flows like a 15 weight when it's cold and flows like a 40 weight when it's hot. Personally I just use a normal 10w-30 that you can get anywhere. I may switch in the future but, I only have about 2.5 hours on natural gas. If you're truely concerned, just run the oil recommended by the manufacturer.
I know you can extend out your oil change interval using natural gas. The oil stays much cleaner because the fuel burns much cleaner. The same goes for spark plug changes. What those intervals are I have no idea. It depends on the engine and # of hours etc. The best way to determine if you can use an extended interval is have the used oil analyzed by Blackstone.
I would probably just check the valve adjustment after about 100 hours or so. I doubt you'd have a valve issue before 1000 hours. You'll know when it needs to be adjusted. The engine will be hard to start or run like crap.
So you said you wouldn't buy the kit again and just buy the regular and make the spacer. What's so special about the spacer and what is the model of your regulator. These seem to be the most crucial pieces. I would like to make my 8750w (390 clone) predator a tri-fuel so I'm looking for some pointers of parts to get and that spacer info as well. Thank you in advance.
Regulator: amzn.to/36OOCyF
The spacer need to pull a vacuum on the line going to the regulator to get the diaphragm to open. Basically the inlet to the spacer needs to be slightly smaller than the outlet side. The outlet side need the fuel delivery. Check my original video for close up shots of the spacer.
You can get Chinese carburetors for many small engines that have the inlet tube for the propane/natural gas built into the carb, and they hang the demand regulator off of the carb. Probably sell one for the gx390 clone. I was looking for one to mount to flathead 5hp Briggs and Stratton engines, but those are not popular engines for our friends in the PRC to copy. I’ll have to make an adapter for my “Honda” carb to the Briggs engines and then hope the jetting works if I ever want to use gasoline on them as they’re set up. $30-50. For the whole shebang from various suppliers. Probably not as nice or well built as the demand regulator that is shown in this video.
Can't seem to find an NG conversion kit for Powerstroke 7500/6000 generator. Any suggestion?
Great mechanic.
Where can I get that natural gas hose
I have a ETQ generator that been working on all 3 types of fuel for years. Now it runs on gasoline but doesn’t run on natural gas. Any ideas?
Does a brand new (never used yet) generator need to run on gas for a few hours first before you start running on nat gas? Or can you immediately start using nat gas. Not sure if engine needs to break in before conversion. Thank you
Yes. I would do the break in on gasoline.
I have a 17500 watt gen, on gasoline works great for my home 4ton Ac, but on NG, wont pick up the Ac, can i add a little bit of gasoline together to compensate the lack of power?
Nope sorry it doesn't work that way.
i assume the firman tri fuel has hardened valves
So generally you want a male quick disconnect attached to the generator, and a female quick disconnect on the source. Did I get that right?
Yes.
I read somewhere that these engines with their low compression can't handle natural gas very well. Is it working well for you?
That isn't true at all.. Generator still runs great.
I'm guessing an occasional run on gasoline would give us those wonderful deposits and mitigate valve recession.
I have a question which many sorts of people haven't been able to answer hope someone can help. I am running a small food truck and have two appliances that need to be running off of my generator. Bought a EF2800i Yamaha generator it does the job when its stationary as it is a carburetor engine but as soon as I drive the petrol is obviously jumping around and the appliances are turning off as im assuming that power is being cut out due to the engine type. Spoke to a professional and he recommended a fuel injected petrol generator, spoke to lawnmower repair guy and he reckons that a gas operated generator will eliminate the fuel issue and will allow the appliances to run without turning off. My question is if a gas generator is in motion meaning while im driving will it continue tio run my appliances without then turning off?
Pretty dern good information. Dual fuel anything is a good idea in today's world.
Saw your chart for gas sizing but curious what size gas line you're running for your generator? Thanks
1" I'm running a 80,000 BTU garage heater off the same line as the generator. I don't use both at the same time. Could have gotten by with just 3/4" but the price difference was like $.10 a 10ft stick and I'd rather go overkill than chance it when the price difference is that cheap.
@@RepairGeek Thanks! I'm contemplating sharing the 3/4" line off my tankless water heater for the same purpose. Since the generator would only be used for outages I think this will be perfect.. I'm fortunate because the 3/4 off the 1 1/4" mainline isn't too far so I think I'm ok but I'll double check with the charts you posted. BTW, your garage is nice with the lift etc. Appreciate your content.
Pat yourself on the back, you did GREAT. I don't own a GenSet yet, if I ever need one I'm buying a dual fuel one from the get go but it was very cool of you making a video about it.
Great content ! Good work !
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the updated video. I viewed your first video at the beginning of the year, 2020. Glad to come across your update on this mod. I purchased a 9K gen and I'm also converting to NG by the fall. Great content. I'm not personally worried about the valve recession issue. Like you said it'll take 1K if hours to notice a run issue. Didn't know of specialized oil for NG or Propane. But, makes sense for autos that are exclusive to this type of fuel supply. I'll definitely change over to that oil once I check the additive package difference's. I wonder if Zinc percentages were increased? Do you use cap covers over your quick connects when stored? Thanks for contributing, Subscribed!
I bought some of the oil. The packaging doesn't state anything about high zinc. I haven't had any outages since the oil change. If I get some good run time on the oil I may send it out for analysis. I've got about 8 hours runtime on the NG conversion over 2.5 years. Not a ton but, that's all the outages I've had. Works well, no regrets at all.
@@RepairGeek Excellent. I've only had to fire up the the gen 2 times sense buying it. I run it 2 times a month for about 10-15 minutes just to keep the fuel moving and fresh. All of course using a fuel stabilizer. I'm slowly reducing adding fuel in prep for NG conversion.
I imagine you keep the tank empty until gas is need for what ever reason. But, during seasonal changes you will have condensation build up in the tank. What do you use to compensate for moisture within the tank? I'm considering a moisture pack. Large ones like used in shipping containers to reduce or eliminate that issue. We certainly don't want our tanks to rust.
Suggestions or ideas?
Thx.
@@eddylee587 I dont do anything. I just drained all the gasoline and drained the carburetor bowl and ignore it. I've had no issues. You could use the generator's fuel tank as a gas can if you wanted just to cut down on moisture but its rather inconvenient. Or just leave the fuel cap loose so air can go in and out.
RG, I keep think about this application because I have a need for a tri-fuel system in my future. I already have a genset and need to convert it.
Question: Would a two stage regulator like the type used in Oxy/acetylene welding do the trick? It is adjustable to allow for pressure regulation.. What do you think?
I'm sure that style of regulator should work but, natural gas isn't the place to tell your self, "This should work". Honestly I would only use something designed for this application.
The regulator that I showed in the video will shut off all gas flow if the engine stalls for some reason. I doubt that style of regulator would do the same thing.
Will it flow enough natural gas to let the engine run properly?
It seems like to many safety issues and unknowns just to save $50 to me.
You need to be looking at what the regulator looking thing he attached to the generator is doing. It’s a “demand” regulator that uses intake vacuum to control gas flow into the engine. A pressure regulator won’t be helpful, since it won’t change with demand from the engine intake. Pressure regulator is needed to take high pressure LP gas and drop it to the pressure that the rest of the system works at. Too much pressure, and that demand regulator will no longer work right and you won’t have control of your air/fuel mix. Propane conversion kits tend to come with a simple regulator like on a bbq grill that drops pressure for you at the appliance to 1/2 psi, which is about what natural gas pressure in your house is (anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 psi in most cases).
Great video - I'm planning to do almost exactly what you did. I can't find any links to where you got the ports/fittings into and out or the house for the gas and electric. Did I miss that?
They are in the description of the original video.
@@RepairGeek Hey yes I've clicked on every link but I don't see the white covers that go over your siding to make the connections look like yours. Are those just generic items? I see they resemble those used for mounting lighting to your house but not quite
@@benjaminhardwick8378 oh the panels. I'll get you the link give me some time. Thanks.
@@RepairGeek Awesome - thanks!
@@benjaminhardwick8378 amzn.to/3hjo52C
You will have to cut your own holes to get the wire and the piping through.
Excellent videos - thank you. I am trying to prepare for an outage due to an earthquake and thus, I want a tri-fuel conversion kit assuming NG might not be available. I am doing a portable instead of a whole home standby because of that reason and I can stockpile some propane. According to Generac, propane will produce clean power for electronics without an inverter. Otherwise, they said to buy a generator with an inverter/clean power for electronics. I am wondering how far of a hose I can use for natural gas? Did you also try switching from gas and NG to propane? I am looking at a Powermate (generac built) dual fuel propane and gasoline and it will require less conversion to add natural gas. Or I will buy a tri-fuel for a generac generator just because they are so much cheaper than Honda, but better than the rest. Any recommendations?
The size of your hose depends on the size of your generator and the around of load it's under. Larger diameter hose will allow you to run larger units at longer distances from the meter but, the answer to that question is not simple. You need to check the sizing charts listed in the description of the original video.
To run a generator that was designed to run on propane on natural gas you need to increase the fuel flow. How you go about doing that? That depends on what you're working with. I bought a standard generator and a tri-fuel kit because I knew it would work. Could you get a dual fuel to run on natural gas, sure. But, without making those modifications myself I can't really speak on how to do it.
@@RepairGeek Thanks for the quick reply. I will check out the table and also check with the gas contractor. Did you switch from propane and NG without any issues with a tri-fuel? Did you consider whether there is an effect of the quality of the clean electric power of the different generator models or different fuel as claimed by Generac? They said propane was clean power or I needed to buy the Generac models that had their clean power.
@@davidcloward9518 to run propane you need an additional regulator on the bottle to reduce the bottle pressure. Most people use a regulator designed for a propane grill. I've never ran mine on propane just because I don't have a reason to. The rest of the setup is the same. You will have to adjust the fuel bolt on the outlet of the governor regulator each time you want to go from propane to NG. (The energy per cubic foot is different.)
As far as clean power, mine has a harmonic distortion of less than 6%. Your utility power is less than 5%. An inverter will almost always put out cleaner power than a traditional generator but, with an inverter, your maximum wattage will be much lower for the same money. I think Generac is claiming the power is "cleaner" because the engine runs smoother on alternative fuels than gasoline. That in it self would reduce the spikes in the AC sign-wave and any generator would run smoother on alternative fuel. Generac or not. You can find clean power models for cheaper than what Generac wants for one. If you need more information send me an email: repairgeek365@gmail.com
Stupid question; I have free natural gas on my land, I’m building a few tiny home cabins; is there a way to power all three with one generator similar to your generator? And also do you keep it running non stop or only when you need it?
A 5 or 7 kW generator should do the job, but I would get a permanent stationary generator installed instead of a portable one like this. I would also size the generator so that it runs at about half load or so on a regular basis. I would also opt for a three phase generator seeing as you have 3 separate buildings you want to power.
im british so forgive me we dont really do this
my question is how do you backfeed the house i understand the concept of it but wouldnt this mean at some point at either side of the proccess your left with a cable potentially at mains voltage with metal prongs sticking out ready to zap you
either when on generator the end of the extension cable (edit maybe not a issue if its female on the end?)
or when back on mains the generator side of the cable (edit upon reflection id imagine this couldnt happen due to the interlock on the breaker)
or is there specific cables and connectors for setting up a backfeed system
Okay there are multiple RUclips videos on how to do this. Just search: generator interlock kit
I have no idea if this is code in Britain but, this is how it works:
You have an outlet outside your home that accepts 240v from your generator. This plug is male, the extension chord is female. This outlet has a cover. As shown in the original generator video.
The outlet on the outside of the house is wired to a breaker that can only be turned on when the main breaker is turned off. (Interlocked with the main breaker) This way it's impossible that the outside outlet has power while the main breaker is on. So, this male plug on the outside of the house cannot have power on it unless its in use. This interlock kit is visible when the door is open on my electrical panel. It is on the top right breaker.
As far as the wattage meter. The wiring runs behind the gauges and goes through two miniature amperage clamps (like clamp style multimeter) before the power wires terminate at the interlocked breaker.
The breakers that are used are just normal breakers, you size the wiring to the size of your generator and your breaker. A 7500 watt generator will power about 30 amps at 240 volts. The maker of your electrical panel should offer an interlock kit. It just depends on the brand of panel you have. 50amp outlets are available if you need more wattage.
These are the parts that I have for the interlock:
Interlock kit: amzn.to/2xw9Zor
Outside outlet: amzn.to/2xzv9Ce
wattage meter: amzn.to/2QVoeew
ahhh i see now so the outlet of the generator is female the extension cord is normal and terminates also at female the house has a male but with the interlock theres no way to energise those prongs and hurt yourself
thankyou for explaining interlocking isnt really somethingn we do in the uk mostly because we dont really have storms and the weather you guys have and with the way we run our power its mostly underground apart from when it goes long distance via the pylons (which are taller than trees) so power outages are a verry rare event
the only places i know of that do simmilar would be large hospitals and schools that have hardwired systems
but t hanks for explaining that too me i was wondering how it wired together
No problem. There are a ton of different ways to power your house during an outage. Interlocking is quick, cheap, and flexible as far as what you can power.
What size gas line did you use?
Great video!
FYI if there is a Royal King store near you they carry those gas cans