My best guess is that there was a prophet in the North of Arabia who told his followers to conquer Jerusalem (the Holy City) to cast out Trinitarian Christianity and thus trigger Jesus' return to earth. Because Jesus did not return after the succesful conquest, later Arab rulers decided to create their own religion by mixing the popular Arian beliefs of the prophet with pagan practices from the Arabs. Now he had a truly Arab religion, one with its own Holy Book, and its own Holy City (Mecca) whose histories could not be investigated. The ultimate tool of Empire.
Great interview, but he is too traditionalist imho. Please interview Dr.'s Paravaneh Pourshariati and Khodadad Rezakhani for some newer theories. The idea that Muhammad or his follower were not somehow involved in the Persian-Bynzantine war is unimaginable. The standard Islamic narrative is like a novel written and happening in 1942 in Europe but not talking about the WWII.
Q30:2-3 proves Muhammad knew what was going on in the Byzantine Persian war and his night 🌙 journey in Q17:1 proves Muhammad knew what happened in Jerusalem when the Jews resumed the qurban (temple sacrifice)
Muhammad’s career coincided with the war and while Jerusalem was under Persian occupation he had the night journey. The war was an event that literally changed the antique world and the entire Quran has only 1-2 verses directly related to it? The Quraysh trade must have been heavily affected by the war bc Syria became under Persian occupation. My point is that indeed the Quran has much more about the war but later exegesis (tafsir) has masked those parts related to the war. In fact the whole Islamic tradition is trying to hide/mask certain historical fact.
@@traveleurope5756 Jerusalem was under Persian AND Jewish occupation and news that temple sacrificing had resumed reached Muhammad. Watch Robert Hoyland's Was Umar the Messiah to know more.
I've heard rumors about "Mohammed" the prophet of God marrying a 9 year old girl. Isis kidnapped a bunch of Catholic children no older than 12 on a bus and turned them into sex slaves. Jesus was a child rapist. All Abrahamic religions are toxic and rooted in the most self deceived delusional immorality imaginable. There's simply NO way to justify what we know is wrong. I'm a much better person for escaping religion.
I am a former Muslim, and the hardest thing when discussing the origins of Islam with my beloved Muslim brothers and sisters, is that they are so rooted in their theology that they cannot accept the historical background of their religion. In my view, they are doing themselves a great disservice and not allowing themselves to be open minded.
From one former to another , glad we are breaking free from the box of religion , much luck to you in your journey and yes the Muslim umah is in a sad sad state of low consciousness and ignorance 😢
The best academic lectures I've heard so far on islam are from the - RUclips channel "The Austin school" by professor Roy Casagranda "Kalid ibn walid a profile of a warrior" the history and conquest of Byzantine empire and the sassanid Persian empire ,
Heraclious a good general, religious scholar, got a invitation letter to become a Muslim from the Noble prophet, he called Arab's from Medina, to have a meeting, Abu sufian was in Damascus, who was a third cousin of the prophet, and a enemy,it's well documented, affair. after 650 ce ,Damascus become the capital city,
Heraclius was of Armenian descent. He was deeply concerned about domination of Persians over Armenia for nearly 900 years. He was able to make a poppet Arabian governors (including prophet Muhammad ) to tip the balance of power between the Roman and Persian empires. Like Moammar Kaddafi, Sadam Hussain and all other failed poppets, Islam went out of control. The Persian empire was defeated, but it backfired on the Roman empire. Heraclius did not live long enough, to see the devastation he caused for the Armenians
Derek, dude: You've got to pronounce Hagia Sophia correctly! For an excellent modern study of this building, and Constantinople, see the PBS series "Ancient Invisible Cities"
What a learned scholar! Thanks for interviewing him. This animated map of history provides some geographical context: ruclips.net/video/oys6EQtpCJk/видео.html Viewing the era in history that Dr. Howard-Johnson specializes in, I can't help but wonder what those (Byzantine) Romans and (Sassanid) Persian were thinking fighting a crazy war against each other, weakening each other, while their ultimate conquerors, the Muslims, were gathering strength to the south. There's got to be a lesson in there somewhere.
Sorry, the videos I mean to link to (which covers the period discussed in this video) are: ruclips.net/video/KnCTg2IW4X0/видео.html ruclips.net/video/mkyzUFSgEWU/видео.html All by Ollie Bye, whose work is excellent, IMHO.
@@exoplanet11 check out the book 📖 Yuri Stoyanov's Defenders and Enemies of the True Cross: The Sasanian Conquest of Jerusalem in 614 and Byzantine Ideology of Anti-Persian Warfare
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:136): “Say, ‘We have believed in Allah and that which has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Ibrahim, Isma’il, Ishaq, Ya’qub, and the Tribes, and that which was given to Musa and Isa, and that which was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him.’”
What are the possibilities that Medina could have been the base of Military command to regulate and support bloody wars with two of the greatest empires of all times, that is Persian and Roman Empires. Medina is at least 1600-1700 kilometres from the frontiers of Iraq( the Persian Empire), and Syria ( the Roman Empire). In between there is nothing but vast desert, with just few oasis. How a DATE ( fruit) oriented Medina economy can raise such a large army of hundred of thousands of people ( considering Medina population in 7th century ), and equip this large army with modern weapons of that time, horses and camels to invade Persian and Roman army is not just humanly possible( if we take out the possibility of Angels and Drones sent by Allah to fight at these frontiers. ). This possibility is not recorded in Roman or Persian War chronicles at that time , if faced with such extraordinary events. It suggest that birthplace of Islam was not at Mecca or Medina. Someone is pointing to wrong direction. But Why? This is another chapter / story. The truth is that ; The rise of Arabs to fight and defeat Persian and Roman armies started from the frontier of these two Empires from the Kingdoms of Lakhmids and Ghassanids, which they were patrolling these frontiers for centuries. These two Arab Kingdoms consisted of various tribes , earlier migrated from Yemen , hired as mercenaries by the Persian and Roman Empires. Banu Ummiyads was a split faction or a tribe of these two Arab kingdoms , which conquered Syria and Jerusalem.
historical research proves that the city of Mecca could not have existed as a large commercial caravan city in the years 600 AD Main reasons for this fact are: 1) Mecca is not an oasis, so there is no surface water (only a well, known as zamzam which is clearly unsufficient and inappropriate for watering many caravan camels) 2) Mecca is not shown on any map at that time or even previously 3) Mecca is located down of Hidjaz plateau and could therefore not be located on the caravan route which is located more than 1000 m above on the plateau (eg the city of Taeef is located at an altitude of ca 2000 m while Mecca is at 300 m) 4) there were no archeological remains or artefacts (coins, potteries, ruins, bones etc) discovered in Mecca dating from before circa year 700 5) no agriculture whatsoever is possible in this wild rocky desert location, how could a large city survive in such hostile environment ?
PAUL CANCELLED THE MESSIAH: In Galatians 3:10-14 Paul explains Deut 21:22-23.and how it applies to a crucified messiah. Here is Paul's explanation: "13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit." If the law was cursed then there is no Torah or Law and Jesus could not have fulfilled what was cursed unless he was cursed himself, which means Jesus was not the Messiah. The Torah is the covenant of Moses. Without the covenant of Moses there is no covenant of David. Without the covenant of David there is no messiah.Paul's twisted logic leads to the conclusion that there is no messiah because there is no Torah. Cancelling the covenant of Moses meant canceling the Covenant of David. The Covenant of David was the promise of a Messiah. QURAN DENIES THE CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS BECAUSE QURAN DECLARES THAT JESUS WAS THE MESSIAH WHO FULFILLED THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS (MATT 5:17-19).
How come every religion says they conquered the world? None of them are even close….. no one is more egotistical than the religious. isn’t that ironic when your religions give you huge egos and lead you straight to hell. If you go around saying I am saved because I believe this creed or that you are most certainly 100% not saved at all not in the slightest.
Islam means submission or peace with God. Quran says to follow the creed / dictation of Abraham who was not a polytheist nor a Christian / Jew / or label Muslim. Simply submitted his will to God. Creed of Abraham is anything but blind purely based on reasoning.
The connection comes later ironically, when Mehmet the conqueror took control over Constantinople in 1453, he saw his rule as a continuation of the Roman/ Byzantine empire. It's at this time Islam gradually incorporated Byzantine culture into what would be ottoman cultural dominance over the Islamic world. Including the Cresent moon and star which was long ago a symbol of Byzantium since the 3rd century bc (Greek colony). The Persians had this symbol on there coins also, especially during the later Sassanid era, as the Sassanids were always in an attempt to recreate the great Achaemenid empire, which included Byzantium. The Sassanids were expected to recreate this ancient empire there prestige and legitimacy was tied to the outcome of there endeavours.
@@keyboardmousewarrior6225 Nope. I’ve read large sections of the Koran, as well as The Dead Sea Scrolls and thousands of pages of scholarship. (Robert Eisenman, Tom Holland and Ibn Warraq in particular.) There’s nothing original about Islam.
Thomas alexander has a great youtube channel exploring the origins of Islam.He delves into the political world into which Islam was born.He has some very controversial conclusions which do bear scrutiny .He has done excellent work.
Why did Derek bother giving this guy’s credentials? It’s obvious from his fancy accent, wrinkles, and sweater that he’s literally an expert in everything he talks about.
He was definitely a historical figure, you don’t have to be a Muslim to agree with that, there are too many near contemporary non Muslim historical sources that mention him, we have more proof of prophet muhammad than genghis khan btw.
check out the book 📖 Yuri Stoyanov's Defenders and Enemies of the True Cross: The Sasanian Conquest of Jerusalem in 614 and Byzantine Ideology of Anti-Persian Warfare
I’d like to buy at least one of the professor’s books, but look how they priced them. $88.00 for a kindle edition that costs them nothing. They insist in keeping the world in ignorance instead of making knowledge affordable and accessible. I will never tire to berate the sons of bitches, the publishers, greedy bastards!
I agree - the books 📚 are very expensive. There is another lecture of James Howard Johnston that he did recently if you type in RUclips "James Howard-Johnston"
@@inquisitivemind007 The lion share goes to the publishers and very little of it goes to the authors. The publishers exercise a monopoly power and they will extract the maximum of profit that they can squeeze out of it, and unfortunately, the copyright laws are designed to benefit these monopolies. Culture and knowledge shouldn’t be treated as commodities.
I was looking forward to what came after the part at the beginning, but it didn't come up again until the end, teasing the next episode. A tease of a tease. I feel so teased.
@Keyboard Mouse Warrior I'm always happy to teach Muslim Apologists: - Jews always wanted to go back to their homeland because of Numbers 33:53 and rebuild the temple in Jerusalem - When the Persian went to war with the Roman, who were occupying their land, the Jews took this opportunity and formed a military alliance with the Persians in exchange for handing over Jerusalem if they won - Persians won and captured Jerusalem and handed over control to the Jews - The dream came true for the Jews as they've gone home again. - Heraclius leads a fightback and makes the Persians withdraw from all lands including Jerusalem - Jews are in deep trouble as Romans return and are hacked off with them for teaming up with the enemy - Jews run off to Muhammad to seek help as reported in Sebeos. They wanted to persuade Muhammad to help them to recapture Jerusalem by reminding Muhammad that the Holy Land belongs to both Arabs and Jews - Muhammad leads a military campaign to capture the Holy Land
@@thenun1846 not really bothered about weak arguments just waiting for your reply on my other comment, dont know why you have put this comment as priority
@@inquisitivemind007 see now thats cheating, are you implying the nun is not capable of answering simply questions, i never said i was an apologist, im not looking to apologise either, so how do you know im an apologist? if you want you can take that argument to hamzas den channel see how long it lasts, but seeing as your quite quick to reply to comments that are not directed to you are an athiest?
believe same as Jesus (Esau) but totally against paul the Roman empire's citizen and it's secret services agent,,who never met Jesus, desiples wanted to kill Paul, but he was saved by Roman soldiers, ""
@@rashidrahman9673 This talk Paul against Jesus makes no sense. It's just desperation to make the Divine Master and His disciple contradict each other.
That’s a fringe theory that was proposed by Dan gibson, who’s not very reliable at all. Also theory itself has been debunked by literal experts from the most major universities in the world.
Emperor Hercules victory in 622 is considered the consequence of dismantling the Persian empire: led to Islam ! : same of dismantling Othman empire 1922
It is weird how experts praise Dr. P. Crone, and yet talk about Mohamad coming from Mecca, as if it is the most obvious thing. Also, saying that Hadith comes much later, and dies not represent what Mohamad Believed, and yet ignoring that it is those same stories that tell us about Mohamad coming from Mecca. Be consistent!
This is just Standard islamic narrative that has been debunked several times. If you really want to know how islm originated go and check out Dr. Jay Smith and Al Fadi. The mecca story is pure delusion, not even a single piece of archeological evidence. Its not even blind faith..lol
Brother are you muslim? I took my shahada a few weeks ago and I think im getting waswasa (i think its called). Should I just avoid these uninformed videos?
@@ren.8137 asalamualaykum brother alhamdulilah we are muslim. If you are a beginner in Islam i would recommend avoiding these types of videoes. once you become knowledgeable it is a differrent story. comment on my channel so that we can keep in touch inshaAllah and if you ever have doubts i can clarify for you and keep their vicious lies in check. hope to hear from you soon brother.
@@principlemethods5281 vicious lies? If someone wants to look at the backstory (James Howard-Johnston interview) and then both sides of the story (Muslim and non-Muslim sources found in the Stephen Shoemaker interview) that's called vicious lies is it? No that's called being normal - It's you who is deceiving people with lies about Muhammad by looking at the past through one window only (Muslim sources)
To be really honest and frank. This sir maybe an expert in Byzantine empire but have very limited knowledge on islam and islam beliefs tradition and history judging form the couple of bloundeers he gives.
Wow the ending nailed it about the relationship between jews and Arabs. It is a christian rationalization of what was going on at the time. I never heard it said like that before. Thank you.
Surely starting with the backstory and then listening to both sides of the story is the way to determine what happened isn't it? If one wanted to know what happened during the partition of India wouldn't one start with the backstory (the British rule of India) and then listen to both sides of the story during partition (India's side and then Pakistan's side) and then reconstruct what happened? Likewise surely to know what happened wouldn't you start with the backstory (Byzantine-Persian war) and then listen to both sides of the story (Muslim and non-Muslim sources) and then reconstruct what happened?
@@atta1798 very interesting! Who need to be educated you or...? Infact, to be educated its important for every one, unfortunately you dont even have the logic to recognize your ignorance!
@@patroncurrysaint2849just read non Muslim accounts from the time, or archaeological record left over from that time as well, I used to be skeptical about early Islamic history once, but when I looked into the non Muslim contemporary records from that era, and the archaeological records, I realized that the traditional narrative is pretty much correct.
God is protecting Islam. Despite the efforts of the unbelievers Islam keeps spreading. In chapter 3 verse 85 of the Quran, God says: “And whoever desires a religion other than Islam it will never be accepted from him and he will be among the losers in the hereafter.”
This discussion is full of rubbish as the knowledge of both the presenter and the guest of Islam is superficial and twisted As an example of this ignorance is that prophet Muhammad peace be upon him never made any concessions to the Meccans As he would have made concessions when he was weak and helpless and not when he started to grow in strength This is only one example of the lies and fallacies that fill this talk Despite all your futile efforts against Islam …..Islam will prevail
i think there was a period from 700-900ad when venice was still able to trade with india via the nile and perhaps ethiopia,bypassing the eastern empire..perhaps jeddah was set up to take control of this route
JESUS CHRIST IS GOD AND THE SAVIOR OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND HAVE FAITH IN HIS LIFE, DEAD, AND RESURRECTION....HE IS COMING SOON...RECEIVE HIM BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE
@@inquisitivemind007 thanks for the hint , it is a powerful one ; I don’t necessarily agree with him about the location of Mecca. In fact it makes even more sense to be Petra : a real trade center and a flourishing pagan worship place
I must of missed his book as it only came out last year. but I've ordered it online now and will read it over the weekend. All 480 pages. Awesome interview Just awesome it's amazing.
Now one can work out what really happened: you start with the backstory (this interview) then you move onto what happened next (Shoemaker interview) and then the Hoyland interview Was Umar the Messiah?
@@inquisitivemind007 hmmm that's the event horizon isn't it. Once you enter your stuck forever trying to escape the gravity of Islamic tradition. It's all too easy however to fool yourself into thinking they is an easy way out. People like certainly, in the event horizon they is no certainly, only the void ⚫
@@thepennydreadful95 Starting with the backstory and then listening to both sides of the story is the way to determine what happened isn't it? If one wanted to know what happened during the partition of India wouldn't one start with the backstory (the British rule of India) then listen to both sides of the story during partition (India's side and then Pakistan's side) and then reconstruct what happened? Likewise to know what happened wouldn't you start with the backstory (Byzantine-Persian war) and then listen to both sides of the story (Muslim and non-Muslim sources) and then reconstruct what happened?
Fascinating discussion. I love seeing the interplay between an Abrahamic religion and the wider world. It's so awesome how we have sources on both sides for the histories of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Also great use of primary sources here.
Very disappointed as this really did nothing to prove the origins if Islam. Two much more informative books would be Hidden Origin of Islam and Early Islam. Both disagree with what this interview is claiming.
Derek, all I can do is pray to the Almighty , the one and only God to bestow his blessings on you and guide you onto the true path . For you are quite intelligent and appears to be wanting to find the truth and in order to derive to the truth about Islam you need to be open minded towards this God’s mighty religion . This is no matter how much you try to conclude that Mohammad (God’s Messenger and Prophet peace and blessing upon him) was just someone who picked up knowledge from Judaism and Christianity to write the Quran. The holyQuran in itself is a miracle beyond imagination and must say that no one nor Mohammad or any other human is able to write such a text .The Quran is God’s final message to mankind for He is your God and my God and the God of all his Prophets and Messengers including Mohammad , Jesus and Moses( peace and blessings upon them. Finally please remember that the Holy books the Torah , the Bible and the Quran came from the same God and so you should expect a lot of similarities in the literature
I beg to differ from Dr James Howard on his opinion that Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) was an ordinary human being. He was indeed a mighty messenger of God Almighty sent in the chain of messengers Abraham, Moses, Solomon, David and Jesus ( peace be upon all of them). Some people mistake his humble lifestyle, rejecting the material wealth of this world for him as an ordinary human. He took a miraculous night journey from Makkah in Arabia to Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem and met with the spirits of all previous prophets. He transformed the nomad Arabic population into a powerful civilization within 23 years of his prophethood so that Muslims later conquered Persia, Byzantine empire and Jerusalem. After the conquest of Jerusalem the second Caliph Omer declared the church of Sepulchre where the empty tomb of Jesus is believed to be located, under the protection of Muslims. Even today the decree of Caliph Omar is displayed outside the church and the key of the church is held with Palastenian Muslims. Please see the following short documentary for further details. ruclips.net/video/PrsqNJIRGPU/видео.html
@@inquisitivemind007 Masjid al-Aqṣā refers to the Quran's Surah 17 - "the furthest mosque" - and thus is used for whole compound of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem also known as the Haram al-Sharif. A temple built originally by the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) in Temple Mount was the first Qibla or the direction of prayer for the Muslims as mentioned by Dr Howard. The Quraish in Makkah asked the same question like you and the Prophet Mohamed ( pbuh) described the temple that he visited quite accurately and also mentioned he saw a caravan that was coming to Makkah at a distance of six days of journey and that caravan arrived after six days to Makkah.
It's ordinary men throughout history who have made up the existence of gods. Mohammed simply borrowed from earlier versions of these fabrications to create another brand.
@@spankduncan1114 You may not believe in a God Almighty and His chosen messengers Moses Jesus and Mohamed (peace be upon all of them). However, Quran is a living proof for the existence of an AlmightyGod. Prophet Mohmed was illiterate in reading and writing of Arabic language and he was incapable of producing a a document of 6236 verses of excellent literature in Arabic language. It was initially memorized by the Prophet then his companions and to date millions have memorized it. Its preservation for the last 1,400 years is through oral traditions. Its effect was the rise of Islam from a tribal nomadic community to powerful Islamic empires in Asia, Europe and Africa. Please refer to Mythvision podcast ruclips.net/video/NQxKg2FtoqY/видео.html&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
@@nakeebissadeen1606 your religion is built upon n dreams and lies. There is no proof that Muhammad ever existed. All of his sayings and history comes 200 years after his supposed death. What a fraud. There is no mention of any Abu Bakr or Aisha or Ali anywhere in neutral sources. There is no evidence of any Rashidun Caliphate All there is the Arabs taking advantage of the weakened Persians and Byzantium empires and defeating both eventually. So come out of your Islamic fantasy.
Plenty of Eye Witness account Saw Muhammad performed miracles. This is one of reason why people believed and followed Him and even willing die to protect Him. His miraculous is not just myth from unknown people. There were many different chains of narrator but they tell same story.
@@andanandan6061nobody saw the miracle. In fact Quran explicitly says that Allah refuses to send miracles because the previous miracles were laughed off by unbelievers. So you are wrong.
If there are some similarities between Islam and Christianity or Judaism it is because these divine religions come from the same source divine relegation from Allah, whereas Christianity and Judaism have gone astray and deviated from the true teachings of Moses and Christ Islam remained faithful to the commandments of Allah as prescribed in the Quran , which is the only word of Allah which remained as it was received by prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
Abraham introduced submission (the original Islam), passed it down through Ismael.. He brought contact (salat), fasting, purifying charity(zakat) and pilgrimage to Mecca. These rites were observed by Arab beduins but became distorted over the years. God sent the Quran to Muhammad to purify Abraham's religion back to it's original state: absolute Monotheism. Arabs turned Muhammad into an idol and Islam became an idol worshipping cult. That's why we see the cultural disaster that is the Muslim world. If you read the Quran, you will see that God tells us in advance and condemns the Arabs for this crime of inventing Hadith, myths, and forsaking the Quran. You can judge a tree by it's fruit. Peace
Historical critism ? And how is that stand against chain of narration invented by Moeslem schoolar ? I mean that is prety great tool that no other abrahamic Faith has not even story abt Julius caesar would pass the Hadith grading system
Islamic historical accounts are the most accurate accounts of all history. Not a single historical account on any other topic or event comes even close. Therefore judging the most accurate accounts by using less accurate accounts is rather silly.
Last 15 minutes was complete clownery, buffoonery and ridiculousness. With all due respect, the Professor seems quite knowledgeable about the Roman history and likely European as a whole but when he was talking about Islam, specifically Hadith, he was completely and embarrassingly wrong. He had no idea what he was talking about.
So you think Muhammad being an apocolaptic prophet is ridiculous is it? What about the mutawatir reports of Muhammad leading an invasion to capture Palestine 🇵🇸 as shown in the Stephen Shoemaker interview. What's all that about? What about the mutawatir reports of the Jewish ✡️ Temple being rebuilt under Umar. What's all that about? Umar riding on a donkey like some sort of Messiah figure on his 4th visit as mentioned in Tabari instead of a horse 🐎 or camel 🐫 What's all that about?
@@inquisitivemind007 If by apocalyptic prophet you mean talking about end time signs before the Day of Judgement then yes nothing wrong with that. The Prophet (PBUH) never led an invasion in his lifetime but he did tell his followers to wait prepare for one. The reason for which was to preemtively conquer an enemy who was bound to strike Muslims eventually. Nothing wrong with that. Jewish temple rebuilt is a good thing to aid the Jews into bringing back what was theirs after suffering humiliating defeat by the Romans. I am not sure about tbe authenticity of Umar riding a donkey in Tabari. As you may or may not know, Tabari doesnt have chains like the other 6 canonical books. Tabari himself said that his reports may contain true and falsehood and we are to judge them using external criteria or corroborating evidences from the 6 canonical works and/or other hadith collections.
@dom So you don't believe in tawatar? Very strange Muslim you are - one minute you learn about mutawatir reports in hadith studies then when the same principle is applied to non-Muslim reports (9 in total ranging from Latin, Greek, Armenian, Christian Arabic and Syriac) all of a sudden there are no such thing. Muhammad leading an invasion of Palestine 🇵🇸 is mutawatir.
@@inquisitivemind007 Ok present the hadith about him leading an invasion into Palestine. I coul md be wrong but I dont recall himself being in it. If u produce the proof, i dont have a problem accepting it. Also, u didnt respond to the other questions. Why are you running?
@dom when something is mutawatir then it doesn't matter if there is any hadith on it or not. The closest thing there is in Islam ☪️ is this ruclips.net/video/ph9qbff5LCg/видео.html Also which question am I running 🏃♂️ away from?
When you have a neuro science question you go to neurologist not the urologist. For questions about Islam you go Islamic Scholars it's that simple obviously the presenter is not sincere here
Worst thing you could ever do. That would only get biased answers that twist history to fit their own dogma. To learn you need to be able to admit your view can be wrong and to consider other points and evidence. Religious people are incapable of doing this.
Very nice broadcast. Thankful for it. I was intrigued by Dr. Carrier’s side remark (recently on this channel) that Islam was a revival or recasting of Christianity before Paul (the one of Peter, let's say): believing in Jesus and following Jewish tradition. The argument seems a bit constructed, and the 6th century is a hiatus in this, between the supposed Christian “sect” (the original ones) and the emergence of Islam in Arabia. But I think that it’s a valid argument on a meta level (history of ideas).
I will say this again... Get the Inarah scholars. You don't have to agree with their research findings. Just hear what they have to say. And don't go anywhere near Jay Smith.
@@inquisitivemind007 Yes. That was one of the better and interesting episode. Derek can try more players like Robert M Kerr, Karl Heinz Ohlig, Markus Gross, Volker Popp and others.
@@inquisitivemind007 1. You learn so much from History, including precedents for the modern day. How would you understand the different religions of the world without looking into their respective histories. 2. You will only get a partial and slanted view of what’s going on today by watching the news. They lie and manipulate daily, calling genuine information ‘conspiracy theories’ while purporting real conspiracy theories as gospel (pardon the pun). Also, they only report on what they are allowed to report on. We are kept in the dark like mushrooms.
I think you all should know that all religions get distorted. That doesn't mean they weren't originally authentic. There's a God. He sends info to humans periodically to reestablish a means for us to reform. We must submit to Him alone in order to be reformed. Follow His word alone. But humans can't handle that. They always fall for the holy messenger trope, turning a human into an idol beside God. Hence myth vision. Peace
Sejarahnya Nabi Muhammad SAW adalah yang paling lengkap diantara para pendiri Agama Ibrahimic. Kitab suci Al-Quran adalah yang paling banyak mengandung nilai Ilmu pengetahuan diantara banyak kitab suci yang telah lebih dahulu ada. Itulah perbedaan terbesarnya.
Not exactly a shocking revelation… Muhamed came about in a time that written languages were way more prevalent.. and written by a group of peoples who were in power… The story of Jesus was forced underground.. by those in power in the area… anyone who spoke good of jesus, agreed to his teachings or declared him as the ‘promised messiah’ were either killed or thrown into the gladiatorial rings by the romans, or stoned to death as apostates by the Jews.. it took over 300 years for the ‘followers of Christ’ to legally be able to pray/speak openly. By which, those who followed christs teachings, had began calling themselves Christian’s. (Followers of Christ). But Jews all in but name. The romans now taking Christianity as the religion of its empire, began centralising and codifying the Christian belief… thus began Roman Catholicism and the formation of a popedom. Muhamed’s immorality is well categorised as you say… the jihad for every follower of the mashih ad dijjal 🙌🏽
I thought you chickened-out talking about Islam, because I haven't seen any Islamic content lately. I rarely see agnostic/atheist channel having interest or talking about Islam-ic world. Many of them just stuck in the debunking Christianity bubble, as if that's all there is to traditional religion. I suggest you also talk about Hindic tradition... And I don't think you're an atheist... Keep up the work & peace...
I wish Turan Dursun’s, İlhan Arsel’s and Arif Tekin’s works about Islam can be discussed on RUclips channels like this. They are great resources about this issue.
@Vegan Higler You are right, and those writers that I mentioned are three brave Turkish intellectuals who debunked those fairy tales by their books. Unfortunately one of them (Turan Dursun) was assassinated by islamic fundamentalists in 1990.
My best guess is that there was a prophet in the North of Arabia who told his followers to conquer Jerusalem (the Holy City) to cast out Trinitarian Christianity and thus trigger Jesus' return to earth. Because Jesus did not return after the succesful conquest, later Arab rulers decided to create their own religion by mixing the popular Arian beliefs of the prophet with pagan practices from the Arabs. Now he had a truly Arab religion, one with its own Holy Book, and its own Holy City (Mecca) whose histories could not be investigated. The ultimate tool of Empire.
Dante. Eighth circle
You definitely should get more British scholars on, particularly Bible scholars, more secular over there than we are. Awesome guest, awesome show.
He did - Robert Hoyland is British
@@inquisitivemind007so is the current guest James howard-johnston
@dreamscapesflstudiomobilec3396 yes and is Michael Cook too
thank you,Derek for your hard work and excellent content .
Great interview, but he is too traditionalist imho. Please interview Dr.'s Paravaneh Pourshariati and Khodadad Rezakhani for some newer theories. The idea that Muhammad or his follower were not somehow involved in the Persian-Bynzantine war is unimaginable. The standard Islamic narrative is like a novel written and happening in 1942 in Europe but not talking about the WWII.
Brilliant analogy. And I second inviting Pourshariati too.
Q30:2-3 proves Muhammad knew what was going on in the Byzantine Persian war and his night 🌙 journey in Q17:1 proves Muhammad knew what happened in Jerusalem when the Jews resumed the qurban (temple sacrifice)
Muhammad’s career coincided with the war and while Jerusalem was under Persian occupation he had the night journey. The war was an event that literally changed the antique world and the entire Quran has only 1-2 verses directly related to it? The Quraysh trade must have been heavily affected by the war bc Syria became under Persian occupation. My point is that indeed the Quran has much more about the war but later exegesis (tafsir) has masked those parts related to the war. In fact the whole Islamic tradition is trying to hide/mask certain historical fact.
@@traveleurope5756 Jerusalem was under Persian AND Jewish occupation and news that temple sacrificing had resumed reached Muhammad. Watch Robert Hoyland's Was Umar the Messiah to know more.
I've heard rumors about "Mohammed" the prophet of God marrying a 9 year old girl. Isis kidnapped a bunch of Catholic children no older than 12 on a bus and turned them into sex slaves. Jesus was a child rapist. All Abrahamic religions are toxic and rooted in the most self deceived delusional immorality imaginable. There's simply NO way to justify what we know is wrong. I'm a much better person for escaping religion.
I am a former Muslim, and the hardest thing when discussing the origins of Islam with my beloved Muslim brothers and sisters, is that they are so rooted in their theology that they cannot accept the historical background of their religion. In my view, they are doing themselves a great disservice and not allowing themselves to be open minded.
From one former to another , glad we are breaking free from the box of religion , much luck to you in your journey and yes the Muslim umah is in a sad sad state of low consciousness and ignorance 😢
@@1Grandoptimist yes and the proof is in Surah Al Muzdalifah
❤yes, they don’t yet see the value in the historical approach. But that is what sets the mind free.
The history of every religion…
Same thing for Christians.
The best academic lectures I've heard so far on islam are from the -
RUclips channel "The Austin school" by professor Roy Casagranda
"Kalid ibn walid a profile of a warrior"
the history and conquest of Byzantine empire and the sassanid Persian empire ,
Heraclious a good general, religious scholar, got a invitation letter to become a Muslim from the Noble prophet, he called Arab's from Medina, to have a meeting, Abu sufian was in Damascus, who was a third cousin of the prophet, and a enemy,it's well documented, affair. after 650 ce ,Damascus become the capital city,
He was smart enough to not accept the invitation
Heraclius was of Armenian descent. He was deeply concerned about domination of Persians over Armenia for nearly 900 years. He was able to make a poppet Arabian governors (including prophet Muhammad ) to tip the balance of power between the Roman and Persian empires. Like Moammar Kaddafi, Sadam Hussain and all other failed poppets, Islam went out of control. The Persian empire was defeated, but it backfired on the Roman empire. Heraclius did not live long enough, to see the devastation he caused for the Armenians
@@1089S your absolutely zionist's propaganda machine,
Another great episode - looking forward to the follow up interview
Exciting to hear my ancestors, the Armenians, mentioned several times.
Me too 🌹🇦🇲🌹
Heracles was Armenian too 😃
Thank you Derek for the amazing effort hosting scholars and digging in the origin of Islam and its overlap with eastern Christianity.
Derek, dude: You've got to pronounce Hagia Sophia correctly! For an excellent modern study of this building, and Constantinople, see the PBS series "Ancient Invisible Cities"
ps. Ctesiphon you can mis-pronounce. No problem .... ;) (Κτησιφῶν)
Te zi fon.
Cliffhanger! Can't wait for the following episode. So fascinating.
@@inquisitivemind007 Thanks!
What a learned scholar! Thanks for interviewing him.
This animated map of history provides some geographical context: ruclips.net/video/oys6EQtpCJk/видео.html
Viewing the era in history that Dr. Howard-Johnson specializes in, I can't help but wonder what those (Byzantine) Romans and (Sassanid) Persian were thinking fighting a crazy war against each other, weakening each other, while their ultimate conquerors, the Muslims, were gathering strength to the south. There's got to be a lesson in there somewhere.
Sorry, the videos I mean to link to (which covers the period discussed in this video) are:
ruclips.net/video/KnCTg2IW4X0/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/mkyzUFSgEWU/видео.html
All by Ollie Bye, whose work is excellent, IMHO.
@@exoplanet11 check out the book 📖 Yuri Stoyanov's Defenders and Enemies of the True Cross: The Sasanian Conquest of Jerusalem in 614 and Byzantine Ideology of Anti-Persian Warfare
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:136): “Say, ‘We have believed in Allah and that which has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Ibrahim, Isma’il, Ishaq, Ya’qub, and the Tribes, and that which was given to Musa and Isa, and that which was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him.’”
What are the possibilities that Medina could have been the base of Military command to regulate and support bloody wars with two of the greatest empires of all times, that is Persian and Roman Empires.
Medina is at least 1600-1700 kilometres from the frontiers of Iraq( the Persian Empire), and Syria ( the Roman Empire).
In between there is nothing but vast desert, with just few oasis.
How a DATE ( fruit) oriented Medina economy can raise such a large army of hundred of thousands of people ( considering Medina population in 7th century ), and equip this large army with modern weapons of that time, horses and camels to invade Persian and Roman army is not just humanly possible( if we take out the possibility of Angels and Drones sent by Allah to fight at these frontiers. ). This possibility is not recorded in Roman or Persian War chronicles at that time , if faced with such extraordinary events.
It suggest that birthplace of Islam was not at Mecca or Medina.
Someone is pointing to wrong direction. But Why?
This is another chapter / story.
The truth is that ; The rise of Arabs to fight and defeat Persian and Roman armies started from the frontier of these two Empires from the Kingdoms of Lakhmids and Ghassanids, which they were patrolling these frontiers for centuries. These two Arab Kingdoms consisted of various tribes , earlier migrated from Yemen , hired as mercenaries by the Persian and Roman Empires.
Banu Ummiyads was a split faction or a tribe of these two Arab kingdoms , which conquered Syria and Jerusalem.
You should get “Odon Lafontaine” on this topic.
historical research proves that the city of Mecca could not have existed as a large commercial caravan city in the years 600 AD
Main reasons for this fact are:
1) Mecca is not an oasis, so there is no surface water (only a well, known as zamzam which is clearly unsufficient and inappropriate for watering many caravan camels)
2) Mecca is not shown on any map at that time or even previously
3) Mecca is located down of Hidjaz plateau and could therefore not be located on the caravan route which is located more than 1000 m above on the plateau (eg the city of Taeef is located at an altitude of ca 2000 m while Mecca is at 300 m)
4) there were no archeological remains or artefacts (coins, potteries, ruins, bones etc) discovered in Mecca dating from before circa year 700
5) no agriculture whatsoever is possible in this wild rocky desert location, how could a large city survive in such hostile environment ?
Whoever animates your intros needs a raise lol
PAUL CANCELLED THE MESSIAH: In Galatians 3:10-14 Paul explains Deut 21:22-23.and how it applies to a crucified messiah. Here is Paul's explanation: "13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit."
If the law was cursed then there is no Torah or Law and Jesus could not have fulfilled what was cursed unless he was cursed himself, which means Jesus was not the Messiah. The Torah is the covenant of Moses. Without the covenant of Moses there is no covenant of David. Without the covenant of David there is no messiah.Paul's twisted logic leads to the conclusion that there is no messiah because there is no Torah. Cancelling the covenant of Moses meant canceling the Covenant of David. The Covenant of David was the promise of a Messiah. QURAN DENIES THE CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS BECAUSE QURAN DECLARES THAT JESUS WAS THE MESSIAH WHO FULFILLED THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS (MATT 5:17-19).
Awesome to get a proper byzantologist (scholar in Byzantine studies) to speak
How come every religion says they conquered the world? None of them are even close….. no one is more egotistical than the religious. isn’t that ironic when your religions give you huge egos and lead you straight to hell. If you go around saying I am saved because I believe this creed or that you are most certainly 100% not saved at all not in the slightest.
Islam means submission or peace with God. Quran says to follow the creed / dictation of Abraham who was not a polytheist nor a Christian / Jew / or label Muslim. Simply submitted his will to God. Creed of Abraham is anything but blind purely based on reasoning.
Notice the coin on the left. Over the head of the Shah are the wings of Zoroastrianism and the crescent and star of what turned into Islam.
The connection comes later ironically, when Mehmet the conqueror took control over Constantinople in 1453, he saw his rule as a continuation of the Roman/ Byzantine empire. It's at this time Islam gradually incorporated Byzantine culture into what would be ottoman cultural dominance over the Islamic world. Including the Cresent moon and star which was long ago a symbol of Byzantium since the 3rd century bc (Greek colony). The Persians had this symbol on there coins also, especially during the later Sassanid era, as the Sassanids were always in an attempt to recreate the great Achaemenid empire, which included Byzantium. The Sassanids were expected to recreate this ancient empire there prestige and legitimacy was tied to the outcome of there endeavours.
so what your saying is islam has holy coins that muhammad printed
@@keyboardmousewarrior6225 Nope, the reverse. Islam is a mish-mash that took ideas from previous sources.
@@danielschaeffer1294 or it is really the truth and your making your conclusions thousand years after the fact
@@keyboardmousewarrior6225 Nope. I’ve read large sections of the Koran, as well as The Dead Sea Scrolls and thousands of pages of scholarship. (Robert Eisenman, Tom Holland and Ibn Warraq in particular.) There’s nothing original about Islam.
Thomas alexander has a great youtube channel exploring the origins of Islam.He delves into the political world into which Islam was born.He has some very controversial conclusions which do bear scrutiny .He has done excellent work.
He's part of inarah group too.
Thank you very much, gentlemen! 🎉
Why did Derek bother giving this guy’s credentials? It’s obvious from his fancy accent, wrinkles, and sweater that he’s literally an expert in everything he talks about.
I don't think the Islamic Muhammad are historical at all.
There is an interview with Joshua Little that proves he is historical.
He was definitely a historical figure, you don’t have to be a Muslim to agree with that, there are too many near contemporary non Muslim historical sources that mention him, we have more proof of prophet muhammad than genghis khan btw.
He missed the gematria system codes by the jesuites
Residents of some Aegean islands called themselves Romans as late as the 19th century.
Wow Derek this was exactly the debate I was having few days ago. ❤great content!
Sassanian rule covered years 224-651.
check out the book 📖 Yuri Stoyanov's Defenders and Enemies of the True Cross: The Sasanian Conquest of Jerusalem in 614 and Byzantine Ideology of Anti-Persian Warfare
I’d like to buy at least one of the professor’s books, but look how they priced them. $88.00 for a kindle edition that costs them nothing. They insist in keeping the world in ignorance instead of making knowledge affordable and accessible. I will never tire to berate the sons of bitches, the publishers, greedy bastards!
I agree - the books 📚 are very expensive. There is another lecture of James Howard Johnston that he did recently if you type in RUclips "James Howard-Johnston"
@@inquisitivemind007 The lion share goes to the publishers and very little of it goes to the authors. The publishers exercise a monopoly power and they will extract the maximum of profit that they can squeeze out of it, and unfortunately, the copyright laws are designed to benefit these monopolies. Culture and knowledge shouldn’t be treated as commodities.
@@cabezzadevaca4157 I guess the 2nd best thing is an interview version of the books 📚 and this is exactly what Derek is doing.
Just buy it. I bought one. Books in universities are as or more expensive. Think no Kindle or electricity now u have a book worth more than $88
I was looking forward to what came after the part at the beginning, but it didn't come up again until the end, teasing the next episode. A tease of a tease. I feel so teased.
This is just brilliant!
Excellent guest
what was the guests point again? teach me oh great teacher
@Keyboard Mouse Warrior I'm always happy to teach Muslim Apologists:
- Jews always wanted to go back to their homeland because of Numbers 33:53 and rebuild the temple in Jerusalem
- When the Persian went to war with the Roman, who were occupying their land, the Jews took this opportunity and formed a military alliance with the Persians in exchange for handing over Jerusalem if they won
- Persians won and captured Jerusalem and handed over control to the Jews
- The dream came true for the Jews as they've gone home again.
- Heraclius leads a fightback and makes the Persians withdraw from all lands including Jerusalem
- Jews are in deep trouble as Romans return and are hacked off with them for teaming up with the enemy
- Jews run off to Muhammad to seek help as reported in Sebeos. They wanted to persuade Muhammad to help them to recapture Jerusalem by reminding Muhammad that the Holy Land belongs to both Arabs and Jews
- Muhammad leads a military campaign to capture the Holy Land
@@keyboardmousewarrior6225 🤦🏽♂️ watch the video bud
@@thenun1846 not really bothered about weak arguments just waiting for your reply on my other comment, dont know why you have put this comment as priority
@@inquisitivemind007 see now thats cheating, are you implying the nun is not capable of answering simply questions, i never said i was an apologist, im not looking to apologise either, so how do you know im an apologist? if you want you can take that argument to hamzas den channel see how long it lasts, but seeing as your quite quick to reply to comments that are not directed to you are an athiest?
Great guest! Bring him on more times
There is already another one of him ruclips.net/video/gTmy92uV-aw/видео.htmlsi=f9kPfTnu46tAxfwm
@@inquisitivemind007 Thanks!
Please read the Noble Quran and learn a lot more about Jesus son of Mary and the meaning of life 🙏
Islamic views of Jesus directly contradict Christian ones.
believe same as Jesus (Esau) but totally against paul the Roman empire's citizen and it's secret services agent,,who never met Jesus, desiples wanted to kill Paul, but he was saved by Roman soldiers, ""
@@rashidrahman9673
This talk Paul against Jesus makes no sense. It's just desperation to make the Divine Master and His disciple contradict each other.
Hardly
You want to know islam´s root . Stop looking at Mecka todays location start to look at jordan petra
That’s a fringe theory that was proposed by Dan gibson, who’s not very reliable at all. Also theory itself has been debunked by literal experts from the most major universities in the world.
Fantastic video, extremely informative
Plague, not PLEG.
Amazing and most impressive interview
The wall that separates gog from magog...LOOMS.
Emperor Hercules victory in 622 is considered the consequence of dismantling the Persian empire: led to Islam ! : same of dismantling Othman empire 1922
It is weird how experts praise Dr. P. Crone, and yet talk about Mohamad coming from Mecca, as if it is the most obvious thing.
Also, saying that Hadith comes much later, and dies not represent what Mohamad Believed, and yet ignoring that it is those same stories that tell us about Mohamad coming from Mecca.
Be consistent!
you guys are really reaching. amazImg how solid Islam is
This is just Standard islamic narrative that has been debunked several times. If you really want to know how islm originated go and check out Dr. Jay Smith and Al Fadi. The mecca story is pure delusion, not even a single piece of archeological evidence. Its not even blind faith..lol
islm is very weak and fragile. Its slowly dying and going down the drain. alhamdulilah for that
Brother are you muslim? I took my shahada a few weeks ago and I think im getting waswasa (i think its called). Should I just avoid these uninformed videos?
@@ren.8137 asalamualaykum brother alhamdulilah we are muslim. If you are a beginner in Islam i would recommend avoiding these types of videoes. once you become knowledgeable it is a differrent story. comment on my channel so that we can keep in touch inshaAllah and if you ever have doubts i can clarify for you and keep their vicious lies in check. hope to hear from you soon brother.
@@principlemethods5281 vicious lies? If someone wants to look at the backstory (James Howard-Johnston interview) and then both sides of the story (Muslim and non-Muslim sources found in the Stephen Shoemaker interview) that's called vicious lies is it? No that's called being normal - It's you who is deceiving people with lies about Muhammad by looking at the past through one window only (Muslim sources)
Absolutely fascinating. Dt. Howard-Johnson's grasp on the history of 7th century near east has to be unsurpassed in the world.
To be really honest and frank. This sir maybe an expert in Byzantine empire but have very limited knowledge on islam and islam beliefs tradition and history judging form the couple of bloundeers he gives.
Wow the ending nailed it about the relationship between jews and Arabs. It is a christian rationalization of what was going on at the time. I never heard it said like that before. Thank you.
James has no even a little bit clue of Islamic history! This is misleading information about Islam
then where can i find the true information about islam?
Surely starting with the backstory and then listening to both sides of the story is the way to determine what happened isn't it? If one wanted to know what happened during the partition of India wouldn't one start with the backstory (the British rule of India) and then listen to both sides of the story during partition (India's side and then Pakistan's side) and then reconstruct what happened? Likewise surely to know what happened wouldn't you start with the backstory (Byzantine-Persian war) and then listen to both sides of the story (Muslim and non-Muslim sources) and then reconstruct what happened?
Your comment is amazingly unfounded n you need to educate yourself
@@atta1798 very interesting! Who need to be educated you or...? Infact, to be educated its important for every one, unfortunately you dont even have the logic to recognize your ignorance!
@@patroncurrysaint2849just read non Muslim accounts from the time, or archaeological record left over from that time as well, I used to be skeptical about early Islamic history once, but when I looked into the non Muslim contemporary records from that era, and the archaeological records, I realized that the traditional narrative is pretty much correct.
This was really hard to follow due to going into too many, nevertheless interesting, details
Derek remember to prioritize love of others and peace in your heart
Heracles was Armenian and the battle in eastern Anatolia was Armenian territory; there was no Azerbaijan at that time. It was all Armenian lands.
Prophet Muhammad visited Jerusalem in his youth. A part of the Hashimites loved in Jerusalem.
It is sad that Arab education does not examine this period 618 to 640
God is protecting Islam. Despite the efforts of the unbelievers Islam keeps spreading.
In chapter 3 verse 85 of the Quran, God says:
“And whoever desires a religion other than Islam it will never be accepted from him and he will be among the losers in the hereafter.”
Life long academic. Minor municipal representative. Great writer and historian!
🕋📿 🕌Magnificent
Facts, information, analysis in true & accurate & with good intention 👏
This discussion is full of rubbish as the knowledge of both the presenter and the guest of Islam is superficial and twisted
As an example of this ignorance is that prophet Muhammad peace be upon him never made any concessions to the Meccans
As he would have made concessions when he was weak and helpless and not when he started to grow in strength
This is only one example of the lies and fallacies that fill this talk
Despite all your futile efforts against Islam …..Islam will prevail
Islam will prevail? You need to watch some Marijn van Putten interviews.
This feels like watching a prequel to a prequel to episode 1 of Islam. Truly thorough about the historical background
Check out what happens next in the Shoemaker interview Derek did.
@@inquisitivemind007 when? Where?
@@sonye-jin6737 If you search for Stephen Shoemaker in RUclips, you will see an interview called "Did Muhammad lead an invasion of Palestine?"
🙏☪️⏰️read your 📖👀🙄oh BOY!...
i think there was a period from 700-900ad when venice was still able to trade with india via the nile and perhaps ethiopia,bypassing the eastern empire..perhaps jeddah was set up to take control of this route
Could be bro
JESUS CHRIST IS GOD AND THE SAVIOR OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND HAVE FAITH IN HIS LIFE, DEAD, AND RESURRECTION....HE IS COMING SOON...RECEIVE HIM BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE
Stop shouting and take the cap locks off
Derek you seem very interested in Islam but why do you not refer to Muslim scholars, you are doing yourself and your viewers an injustice 🤔
The same question I can ask you when you want to pick holes in Christianity. Why don't you go to a Christian instead of a Muslim Apologist?
Amazing n beautiful Intellect n Brains Dr James Howard-Johnston👍👍👍
What an episode, you left us hanging at the end, I love to hear what he has to say
Did your guest speak at the annual IQSA conference in Palermo ?
@@inquisitivemind007 thanks for the hint , it is a powerful one ; I don’t necessarily agree with him about the location of Mecca. In fact it makes even more sense to be Petra : a real trade center and a flourishing pagan worship place
I love finding new scholar who shed on the origin of Islam.
What will they be saying about our history in 2000 yrs 🤔
👏 🙂
Very interesting and informative as always
I must of missed his book as it only came out last year. but I've ordered it online now and will read it over the weekend. All 480 pages. Awesome interview Just awesome it's amazing.
Now one can work out what really happened: you start with the backstory (this interview) then you move onto what happened next (Shoemaker interview) and then the Hoyland interview Was Umar the Messiah?
@@inquisitivemind007 hmmm that's the event horizon isn't it. Once you enter your stuck forever trying to escape the gravity of Islamic tradition. It's all too easy however to fool yourself into thinking they is an easy way out. People like certainly, in the event horizon they is no certainly, only the void ⚫
@@thepennydreadful95 Starting with the backstory and then listening to both sides of the story is the way to determine what happened isn't it? If one wanted to know what happened during the partition of India wouldn't one start with the backstory (the British rule of India) then listen to both sides of the story during partition (India's side and then Pakistan's side) and then reconstruct what happened? Likewise to know what happened wouldn't you start with the backstory (Byzantine-Persian war) and then listen to both sides of the story (Muslim and non-Muslim sources) and then reconstruct what happened?
@@inquisitivemind007 completely agree 💯%
@@inquisitivemind007 may be none will that's why you have historians that research
Fascinating discussion. I love seeing the interplay between an Abrahamic religion and the wider world. It's so awesome how we have sources on both sides for the histories of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Also great use of primary sources here.
What a truly delightful guest! Would have loved to have been one of his students at Oxford.
Good program! Thanks and expert guest with a mastery of history!
still waiting for the part about islamic origin to start ...
He did: the part about the Jews going to Muhammad is the beginning of the story.
The real origin? But you barely covered anything
Watch the next part by Stephen Shoemaker and the part after that called Was Umar the Messiah by Robert Hoyland.
Beautiful episode Derek
Do they called it a Black Death? If so why?
Very disappointed as this really did nothing to prove the origins if Islam. Two much more informative books would be Hidden Origin of Islam and Early Islam. Both disagree with what this interview is claiming.
got this done too!
Derek, all I can do is pray to the Almighty , the one and only God to bestow his blessings on you and guide you onto the true path .
For you are quite intelligent and appears to be wanting to find the truth and in order to derive to the truth about Islam you need to be open minded towards this God’s mighty religion .
This is no matter how much you try to conclude that Mohammad (God’s Messenger and Prophet peace and blessing upon him) was just someone who picked up knowledge from Judaism and Christianity to write the Quran.
The holyQuran in itself is a miracle beyond imagination and must say that no one nor Mohammad or any other human is able to write such a text .The Quran is God’s final message to mankind for He is your God and my God and the God of all his Prophets and Messengers including Mohammad , Jesus and Moses( peace and blessings upon them.
Finally please remember that the Holy books the Torah , the Bible and the Quran came from the same God and so you should expect a lot of similarities in the literature
Quran a miracle? Please watch some Marijn van Putten interviews.
top...more of this please
thos what i call a scholar
I beg to differ from Dr James Howard on his opinion that Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) was an ordinary human being. He was indeed a mighty messenger of God Almighty sent in the chain of messengers Abraham, Moses, Solomon, David and Jesus ( peace be upon all of them). Some people mistake his humble lifestyle, rejecting the material wealth of this world for him as an ordinary human.
He took a miraculous night journey from Makkah in Arabia to Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem and met with the spirits of all previous prophets. He transformed the nomad Arabic population into a powerful civilization within 23 years of his prophethood so that Muslims later conquered Persia, Byzantine empire and Jerusalem.
After the conquest of Jerusalem the second Caliph Omer declared the church of Sepulchre where the empty tomb of Jesus is believed to be located, under the protection of Muslims. Even today the decree of Caliph Omar is displayed outside the church and the key of the church is held with Palastenian Muslims. Please see the following short documentary for further details.
ruclips.net/video/PrsqNJIRGPU/видео.html
@@inquisitivemind007 Masjid al-Aqṣā refers to the Quran's Surah 17 - "the furthest mosque" - and thus is used for whole compound of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem also known as the Haram al-Sharif. A temple built originally by the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) in Temple Mount was the first Qibla or the direction of prayer for the Muslims as mentioned by Dr Howard.
The Quraish in Makkah asked the same question like you and the Prophet Mohamed ( pbuh) described the temple that he visited quite accurately and also mentioned he saw a caravan that was coming to Makkah at a distance of six days of journey and that caravan arrived after six days to Makkah.
It's ordinary men throughout history who have made up the existence of gods. Mohammed simply borrowed from earlier versions of these fabrications to create another brand.
@@spankduncan1114 You may not believe in a God Almighty and His chosen messengers Moses Jesus and Mohamed (peace be upon all of them). However, Quran is a living proof for the existence of an AlmightyGod. Prophet Mohmed was illiterate in reading and writing of Arabic language and he was incapable of producing a a document of 6236 verses of excellent literature in Arabic language.
It was initially memorized by the Prophet then his companions and to date millions have memorized it. Its preservation for the last 1,400 years is through oral traditions. Its effect was the rise of Islam from a tribal nomadic community to powerful Islamic empires in Asia, Europe and Africa. Please refer to Mythvision podcast
ruclips.net/video/NQxKg2FtoqY/видео.html&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
@@nakeebissadeen1606 your religion is built upon n dreams and lies.
There is no proof that Muhammad ever existed. All of his sayings and history comes 200 years after his supposed death. What a fraud.
There is no mention of any Abu Bakr or Aisha or Ali anywhere in neutral sources. There is no evidence of any Rashidun Caliphate
All there is the Arabs taking advantage of the weakened Persians and Byzantium empires and defeating both eventually. So come out of your Islamic fantasy.
Muhammad brought endless wars to the region to impose his religion. He caused so much human suffering.
best wishes
A successful merchant, negotiator and warlord met an angel in his dream and a new religion took root among his followers.
That's it.
Plenty of Eye Witness account Saw Muhammad performed miracles. This is one of reason why people believed and followed Him and even willing die to protect Him. His miraculous is not just myth from unknown people. There were many different chains of narrator but they tell same story.
@@andanandan6061nobody saw the miracle. In fact Quran explicitly says that Allah refuses to send miracles because the previous miracles were laughed off by unbelievers.
So you are wrong.
thank you 🌹🌹
If there are some similarities between Islam and Christianity or Judaism it is because these divine religions come from the same source divine relegation from Allah, whereas Christianity and Judaism have gone astray and deviated from the true teachings of Moses and Christ Islam remained faithful to the commandments of Allah as prescribed in the Quran , which is the only word of Allah which remained as it was received by prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
Abraham introduced submission (the original Islam), passed it down through Ismael.. He brought contact (salat), fasting, purifying charity(zakat) and pilgrimage to Mecca. These rites were observed by Arab beduins but became distorted over the years. God sent the Quran to Muhammad to purify Abraham's religion back to it's original state: absolute Monotheism. Arabs turned Muhammad into an idol and Islam became an idol worshipping cult. That's why we see the cultural disaster that is the Muslim world. If you read the Quran, you will see that God tells us in advance and condemns the Arabs for this crime of inventing Hadith, myths, and forsaking the Quran. You can judge a tree by it's fruit. Peace
Guys .Read A.J. Deus. And prepare yourselves for a few shocks.
Excellent. The Muslims, unlike the western Christians, haven’t met historical criticism of their religion yet. Hopefully it’s gonna change.
yes we have lol ur the clueless one.
@@inquisitivemind007
Here we meet again. Arent you tired of trying to falsify Islam but failing? Islam is growing by the day. 😊
Historical critism ? And how is that stand against chain of narration invented by Moeslem schoolar ? I mean that is prety great tool that no other abrahamic Faith has not even story abt Julius caesar would pass the Hadith grading system
Islamic historical accounts are the most accurate accounts of all history. Not a single historical account on any other topic or event comes even close. Therefore judging the most accurate accounts by using less accurate accounts is rather silly.
@@nosmokejazwinski6297 Tell that to any other people than religious fanatics lol
Last 15 minutes was complete clownery, buffoonery and ridiculousness. With all due respect, the Professor seems quite knowledgeable about the Roman history and likely European as a whole but when he was talking about Islam, specifically Hadith, he was completely and embarrassingly wrong. He had no idea what he was talking about.
So you think Muhammad being an apocolaptic prophet is ridiculous is it? What about the mutawatir reports of Muhammad leading an invasion to capture Palestine 🇵🇸 as shown in the Stephen Shoemaker interview. What's all that about? What about the mutawatir reports of the Jewish ✡️ Temple being rebuilt under Umar. What's all that about? Umar riding on a donkey like some sort of Messiah figure on his 4th visit as mentioned in Tabari instead of a horse 🐎 or camel 🐫 What's all that about?
@@inquisitivemind007
If by apocalyptic prophet you mean talking about end time signs before the Day of Judgement then yes nothing wrong with that.
The Prophet (PBUH) never led an invasion in his lifetime but he did tell his followers to wait prepare for one. The reason for which was to preemtively conquer an enemy who was bound to strike Muslims eventually.
Nothing wrong with that.
Jewish temple rebuilt is a good thing to aid the Jews into bringing back what was theirs after suffering humiliating defeat by the Romans.
I am not sure about tbe authenticity of Umar riding a donkey in Tabari. As you may or may not know, Tabari doesnt have chains like the other 6 canonical books. Tabari himself said that his reports may contain true and falsehood and we are to judge them using external criteria or corroborating evidences from the 6 canonical works and/or other hadith collections.
@dom So you don't believe in tawatar? Very strange Muslim you are - one minute you learn about mutawatir reports in hadith studies then when the same principle is applied to non-Muslim reports (9 in total ranging from Latin, Greek, Armenian, Christian Arabic and Syriac) all of a sudden there are no such thing. Muhammad leading an invasion of Palestine 🇵🇸 is mutawatir.
@@inquisitivemind007
Ok present the hadith about him leading an invasion into Palestine. I coul md be wrong but I dont recall himself being in it. If u produce the proof, i dont have a problem accepting it.
Also, u didnt respond to the other questions. Why are you running?
@dom when something is mutawatir then it doesn't matter if there is any hadith on it or not. The closest thing there is in Islam ☪️ is this ruclips.net/video/ph9qbff5LCg/видео.html Also which question am I running 🏃♂️ away from?
When you have a neuro science question you go to neurologist not the urologist. For questions about Islam you go Islamic Scholars it's that simple obviously the presenter is not sincere here
Leave history to historians.
And when you want to pick holes in Christianity make sure you go to a Christian and not a Muslim Apologist.
Worst thing you could ever do. That would only get biased answers that twist history to fit their own dogma. To learn you need to be able to admit your view can be wrong and to consider other points and evidence. Religious people are incapable of doing this.
@@inquisitivemind007 Honestly we do ask our Christian fellows but the truth of matter is they don't have a solid response to the queries.
@@kyoungdHistorians are more biased and inaccurate than the rest
Very nice broadcast. Thankful for it. I was intrigued by Dr. Carrier’s side remark (recently on this channel) that Islam was a revival or recasting of Christianity before Paul (the one of Peter, let's say): believing in Jesus and following Jewish tradition. The argument seems a bit constructed, and the 6th century is a hiatus in this, between the supposed Christian “sect” (the original ones) and the emergence of Islam in Arabia. But I think that it’s a valid argument on a meta level (history of ideas).
I will say this again... Get the Inarah scholars. You don't have to agree with their research findings. Just hear what they have to say.
And don't go anywhere near Jay Smith.
He already did! It was the interview he did with Peter von Sivers.
@@inquisitivemind007 Yes. That was one of the better and interesting episode. Derek can try more players like Robert M Kerr, Karl Heinz Ohlig, Markus Gross, Volker Popp and others.
Thank you Derek 🙏🙏
Check out the Stephen Shoemaker interview to find out what happens next.
@@inquisitivemind007 Thanks for the recommendation 👍. I started watching an interview with Dr Shoemaker and Derek last night and it's brilliant!
One of the ultimate best!
What is the point of talking about the past. How about the present. Scholars are just two a penny. So many scholars
If you want to know about the present then switch on the news channel.
@@inquisitivemind007 you can't gain anything from the past.
@@frederickanderson1860 tell all of those university departments that who teach history
@@inquisitivemind007 you can't judge history by today's standards. Waste of time and academia bullshit.
@@inquisitivemind007 1. You learn so much from History, including precedents for the modern day. How would you understand the different religions of the world without looking into their respective histories. 2. You will only get a partial and slanted view of what’s going on today by watching the news. They lie and manipulate daily, calling genuine information ‘conspiracy theories’ while purporting real conspiracy theories as gospel (pardon the pun). Also, they only report on what they are allowed to report on. We are kept in the dark like mushrooms.
I think you all should know that all religions get distorted. That doesn't mean they weren't originally authentic. There's a God. He sends info to humans periodically to reestablish a means for us to reform. We must submit to Him alone in order to be reformed. Follow His word alone. But humans can't handle that. They always fall for the holy messenger trope, turning a human into an idol beside God. Hence myth vision. Peace
Common sense sure know
Ηράκλειος (Heraclios) is not Roman...what you call East Roman or/or East Rome is Greek. Byzantium was the east orthodox church and state
Sejarahnya Nabi Muhammad SAW adalah yang paling lengkap diantara para pendiri Agama Ibrahimic. Kitab suci Al-Quran adalah yang paling banyak mengandung nilai Ilmu pengetahuan diantara banyak kitab suci yang telah lebih dahulu ada. Itulah perbedaan terbesarnya.
Not exactly a shocking revelation… Muhamed came about in a time that written languages were way more prevalent.. and written by a group of peoples who were in power…
The story of Jesus was forced underground.. by those in power in the area… anyone who spoke good of jesus, agreed to his teachings or declared him as the ‘promised messiah’ were either killed or thrown into the gladiatorial rings by the romans, or stoned to death as apostates by the Jews.. it took over 300 years for the ‘followers of Christ’ to legally be able to pray/speak openly. By which, those who followed christs teachings, had began calling themselves Christian’s. (Followers of Christ). But Jews all in but name.
The romans now taking Christianity as the religion of its empire, began centralising and codifying the Christian belief… thus began Roman Catholicism and the formation of a popedom.
Muhamed’s immorality is well categorised as you say… the jihad for every follower of the mashih ad dijjal 🙌🏽
I thought you chickened-out talking about Islam, because I haven't seen any Islamic content lately.
I rarely see agnostic/atheist channel having interest or talking about Islam-ic world. Many of them just stuck in the debunking Christianity bubble, as if that's all there is to traditional religion.
I suggest you also talk about Hindic tradition...
And I don't think you're an atheist... Keep up the work & peace...
I wish Turan Dursun’s, İlhan Arsel’s and Arif Tekin’s works about Islam can be discussed on RUclips channels like this. They are great resources about this issue.
@Vegan Higler You are right, and those writers that I mentioned are three brave Turkish intellectuals who debunked those fairy tales by their books. Unfortunately one of them (Turan Dursun) was assassinated by islamic fundamentalists in 1990.