3 Season use is just that, 3 seasons not just the hot summer. In the UK and Europe a non-full mesh tent is almost essential in spring and autumn still. So while I agree the full fabric inner is not useable in summer, tents that have half and half are needed in a lot of countries most of the year.
So true here in the uk you can have heat, rain and frost all in the same day. I’d rather be a little bit hot than too cold to sleep and it’s not practical to carry two tents about.
that's true but Luke is an American which means he doesn't have to know anything. US tents are very different, they are all made for weather where you actually don't need a tent at all. But how could he know? I would always go for a 3 season (World, not just USA) tent and add some reflective foil in winter. It took me years and 100s of bucks to learn it.
You're speaking of the seasons you have in North Carolina but that's very different from the seasons I have in Northern Ontario. I can't justify buying a mesh tent because it's only useful for July and part of June and August. It gets cold at nights where you don't want one of those tents. I camp below rapids which create 100% RH condensing at night when the air temperature drops. That cloud will go right up under your fly and leave everything in your tent saturated. Then you're in big trouble if you're on a week long canoe trip. I also camp in September where it can dip below freezing at night and I've seen 5ºC at night in mid to late August. You need to pick your gear based on climate, location, use, trip duration, distance from help, among others. What I'd take car camping is not what I'd take in a backpack or canoe trip and I have very different tents and sleep systems for these very different activities.
Especially so for parts of Australia. I’ve set up a tent at night, and woken up in the morning, sun on tent, gasping for air! You feel like you’ve been a frog in a pot of water on the stove, unknowingly being slowly cooked. Versatility in tents helps, knowing where your going and weather predicted helps, and being able to adapt is a must.
Luke I think the country or area you are using them in makes a difference about what is a 3 season tent. In UK what you call a 3 season tent is really only a 1 season I.e. summer tent. Huge mesh areas mean you get cold quick in a breeze in spring or autumn. I take your point that knowledge is power but you can’t simply call a tent an X season tent really
I appreciate your viewpoint. We spent a bit of time and money chasing the right balance for our needs in the Northeastern United States. We looked to mesh for insect protection. Ventilation was almost secondary. Later in the season, we depended on the insulation in our sleeping bags and pads for comfort.
Canada too. By end of August we can have 4C nights and that can get cold. I have an MSR Elxir 2, it's about half mesh half fabric and I still can get cold then in technically still summer time. I bring the long John's, winter bag, and 2 mattresses one closed cell and one inflatable with an R4.4. 8:13
I'm in Sweden, and this idea that a four season tent is a "fourth season tent" is entirely alien to me as well. That mindset, at least such a black and white version of it, would not work here. As Luke himself says, it could even be dangerous.
So perfect that you uploaded this today! Because today as I cleaned and prepped my first ever bought tent for resale, it just came to me, it’s not mesh! I’ve known this the whole time but never really realized it. It was always bad with condensation and I blamed it on the weak and small ventilation. But today it totally dawned on me.
For tent camping, my vote for the season to avoid the most.... is Summer. I can not sleep in 88 degrees. I guess I am too old to get there, but I ain't doing it. If it is pretty cold outside, you can seal off a tent and if you have an air mattress, you will normally be OKAY. But if you are camping in Summer, and crawl in a tent when it is still hot at night? That is a prescription for MISERY.
I'm with you on this. I don't backpack at all in the summer or even very late spring or very early fall. I will backpack right through winter, though, because you can always get warm, but there's nothing you can do about the heat... except sweat.
Been to week long summer scout camps the last three years. First year hot as hades in the canvas tents. Sucked. Second head temp dropped enough at night to be ok. Third one it actually got somewhat chilly on one night. That was the best night sleep out of all of them.
Agreed I live in Missouri and it's been over 100° this week! I've been camping on my couch in the AC haha! I really only camp in the Fall months anyways.
I can’t blame you if you can’t take the heat. Try lugging an 80’s external frame pack with all the gear they had back then (about 65 lbs worth) for a three day trip at the end of June !! I will Never do that again !!
I've done a few July 4th tent camps, and two of them happened to have nights that never got below 94 and 92 respectively. Absolutely sucked! I took the rainfly off and slept naked on top of my bag hoping the RVers wouldn't look to close through my whole mesh tent 😓
I was watching a British RUclipsr doing some water craft camping, some of the people with him had tents with lots of mesh. He described them as "American style tents", and that rung true. I've used Hilleberg and Terra Nova four season tents in all four seasons in British mountains and never been too hot. Although climate is changing, so that may not be a forever thing. You just have to take your local conditions in to account too. I've recently bought my first three season tent, now that I live in the USA.
I used to camp a lot when I was younger. In fact, my first wife enjoyed it as much as I did. My second wife thought roughing it was Motel 6. But in central Oklahoma where I am from, we can have subzero wind chill in the winter, 100°+ in the summer, and in between we can have all 4 seasons in the same week at any time. It makes it almost impossible to only have 1 tent.
I remember the days of cotton canvass tent camping, interesting times. With the choices today, a person can have a tent for every season. Thanks Luke👍👍
I am glad I have listened to you from before. We bought two nature hike mongars for our family and it is totally worth it! In the heat and in winter time here in Texas. We have found out ourselves. We set our tent out at 105 degrees at the lake had great airflow. But when it was 28 degrees in the mountains the tent was warm! I slept outside my sleeping bag! Very happy with my purchase and it has a ground cover!!! Best purchase ever!!! You are awesome!
On point Luke. The one thing I see more of, are the big backpacking channels using 3 season tents in the winter. Then they do a gear review and wonder why they slept cold, with quality pads and sleeping bags. I dont quite understand it and it’s bad info for the newb.
I don't tent camp in winter, so I went with as much mesh in a tent I could find, with a removable shell too. Had mine for 2+ years now and am quite happy with it. I do carry a Aqua Defender tarp though, so I can make it quite comfortable in most weather.
This is one of the important videos for me in learning vicariously about having mesh all-around for camping in warmer months, and the mesh versus fabric and what capabilities they have. Thank you for your time and efforts in creating and posting this video.
Man I have seen many of your vids in here. So far, you are the only one who gives realistic and sensible tips and good advice about everything when it comes to backpacking equipment. Man, I'm a FAN... 😀
Great video. I finally bought a "4th season" tent last year. It was cheap on Amazon but with the double fabric wall and flaps that extend to the ground it really does make a difference. Even closed up it has a bit of mesh at the bottom and top to circulate some air and avoid condensation. It actually seems to work. For warm weather give me a tent with plenty of mesh though.
Thanks to your previous reviews I ordered a, TETON Sports Mountain Ultra Tents - 3 Person Backpacking Tent & the MU 3 footprint Waterproof tarp. To take in my Motorcycle trailer when camping.
Yup: there are nuances. In the New England States, where I did most of my camping, a three-season tent would work for all but the warmest times. Stability and condensation were among the most important issues to manage. My lesson here was how to look at fabrics in terms of breathability.
There's a bit of over-generalization going on here. We spent a week camping in Death Valley National Park at the end of January 2020, including 4 days/3 nights backpacking the Cottonwood Canyon/Marble Canyon loop. Technically, we should have been using a traditional 3-season tent like the BA Copper Spur with a 100% mesh interior. I'm glad instead that we had our TarpTent Stratospire 2 with 1/2 solid inner. There is a LOT of fine sand that gets blown around when you're camping in the desert. If you don't have a partial solid inner, that sand will get everywhere, just like spindrift can get blown into your tent in the winter. A partial-solid inner can really improve things when there's blown desert sand to contend with. Even with our partial-solid inner on our TarpTent, we ended up having zipper issues on the inner doors. That fine sand gets into zippers and can really do a number on them.
It's amazing how wind blown sand gets through fine mesh , not very nice ...... Just on the BA Copper spur , the 1 person model I bought last year is roughly 65% mesh , 35% breathable nylon , definitely not 100% mesh , also the coated nylon bathtub floor goes up a few inches to protect from drip splashing. Haven't used the copper spur in windy conditions yet , but for the mainly warm/ hot conditions I'll be using it in i would have prefered more mesh and less " breathable " nylon .
Felt the main point mesh vs fabric is primary concern for a summer tent. However, other features would have been good to also discuss: 2 doors, roof vents, etc.
Thanks Luke. These reviews really help. I purchased a tent having no idea what to look for. It had a lot of fabric on the inner and it was stifling hot! Now I know what to look for. Blessings to you.
“Stuff” and what to buy, particularly tents can be a minefield. I just went Hilleberg straight off the bat. I had to save for the tents I have admittedly, but it has ultimately been worth it 👊👊👊💥💥💥👊👊👊
Just stumbled across your videos today. Thanks for what you do. I enjoyed the tarp folding you demonstrated. Tents, ugh, hard to find one tent to check all the boxes. I had a Camel 60-second tent I picked up in Alaska and used for 25 years. Not very packable, but man great 4 season tent. Used down to -20°F in Alaska to 90°F + in Nebraska. I survived. I finally picked up another tent that I like. ONE Tigress Outback Retreat. Although not a first choice if you have to pack it. From a canoe or ATV it works well. has got enough room for a cot for me and bed for my black lab to be comfortable. I used it so far in Mid-November during Nebraska deer season for a week. With two vestibules I could keep my gear in one end and a heater in the other. Held the heat in very nice. Summer camping along the river, there's plenty of ventilation with the sides propped out and ends rolled up. OneTigris OUTBACK RETREAT Camping Tent, 2 Person Tents for Camping Waterproof with 4 Tent Poles, Perfect for SUV RV Truck Car Camping, Backpacking, Bushcraft, Travel, Canoeing a.co/d/gvnQnGU
I think that the idea of a mesh walled, three season tent seems to be a relatively recent thing. People who didn't grow up with them may not even know they exist. When I started as a scout, we still carried those canvas pup tents on our backs. Heavy, hot, and cramped. Sure, there was ripstop tents with flys available, but no one could afford them. I remember when I first saw the Eureka tents, what a step up. In fact my son's troop was still using old Eureka tents in the 2010s when he joined. I think he was one of the first in the troop to have a mesh 3 season tent. Several of us adults began a drive to buy 3 season tents for the troop and save the Eureka's for winter camping.
Thanks Luke for your content on tents. I got a hilleberg 4 season tent and I thought you could use it for all 4 season I was wrong. They get so hot you can’t be in them AT ALL when it gets hot. And I made another mistake and had my tent up for 6 months in the direct sun and it dried out the outer shell. My tent ripped so bad I lost 2,000 on that tent.
Great advice Luke. I’ve been very happy with my 3 season Big Agnes Copper Spur 2 person tent. It has great ventilation, 2 vestibules, and two side entrances. I also appreciate that it is a double wall tent. It is worth the price for a nylon tent.
Thanks for educating me, I am new to camping and would probably gotten the fourth season tent which would be a disaster since I live in Central Texas. Our seasons tend to be Spring, Summer, Unbearably Hot and Blast Furnace! I'll keep it tuned to your channel!
I’ve used my 3 season half dome tent in Wyoming in January… it was -18 f. Drop a bit of snow around the rain fly to lower wind movement. Sure, changing in the morning is cold… but it worked fine.
Thanks for a valuable video. Didn’t know that difference. I’ve been using 4-season tents in summer, but that has been high up in the mountains, when it’s cold in the night and I really need the warmth it provides. For more lowlands, I will now probably buy an additional mesh inner tent to switch into.
Excellent informative video! Thank you !!! I went with the Lone Rider ADV Tent for my motorcycle trips. Pricey, however now I understand even better as to why.
Wish I knew this 4 years ago, bought a rather pricy tent that was a 3 season tent according to the sales man....2 wall tent with ventilation holes. Not anymore, now I have a new one with inner tent of mesh. Great guide !
Mesh Caveat!! They suck in dust storms! Wind blown dust will penetrate through the mesh and cover all your stuff. If you camp in the desert (or in volcanic areas) even light winds can carry dust along the ground (easy not to notice when standing up). When the mesh walls go all the way down to the bathtub floor the dust will blow under the rain fly, through the mesh and right into the tent. In such cases a fabric walled tent can help a lot; until it gets sunny and turns into and oven. I find tents that have fabric walls at least half way up and mesh uppers to be a good middle ground, but I’m out West and don’t generally camp in humid places. Love to hear more about how your local weather and environment affect your tent performance.
All this is good advice if you're camping at 4-5,000 feet, where heat and humidity are a big concern. But if I had to pick which tent I'd take up to 10,000 or 11,000 feet, I'd go with the solid fabric one. Just as an example, the top of Berthoud Pass can easily drop below freezing in the middle of July, and rainstorms turning to snow overnight are not uncommon up there.
Ty for the distinction between the different tent types, Luke. What I did not realize is that they are using very thin, see through rip-stop fabrics to fool people into thinking it is mesh screening !! I understand about saving weight, but I think using these fabrics are Not suitable for a 3+ or winter tent due to undoubted durability issues down the line and of course lack of airflow. If you need a winter tent, get one with lightweight, not ultralight fabric. It will be warmer and longer lasting. Yes it will be heavier, but if snow load is a possibility, what good is ultra thin fabric if it does not hold up or keep you warm enough? Leave the ultra light tents for thru hikers and 3 season summer camping.
Thank you! Would you consider doing a video on selecting tents, and securing them, for high winds/rain? I bought a non-dome tent that got crushed in 45 mph gusts and appreciate any perspective you have on tent camping in high wind situations.
Yes great points, It does however depends on the climate. In NZ we tend to avoid mesh tents as they are too cold in most of year. Yes I mad the mistake of purchasing a tent based on my NZ experience. In places that tend to have hot summers above 24deg cel then maybe more mesh. Great explaining!
This past week reminded me of this recently posted video. I was camping while working out of town. My only tent of size is a Teton Mountain Ultra 3. Plenty of room for me and a comfortable week's worth of things. It's a 3 season tent. I experienced a few 34 f degree mornings along with 2 strong rain storms! The tent was folded down during the night by the winds lol! Rain was coming in under the rain fly at times too. My jacket and some clothes was the sponge! Not by choice but convenient. Luckily I staked it very well because of the forecasted weather. Definitely a great experience pushing gear limits! The tent and poles did hold up though. This was the first night of weather. On the second night I took the time to open up my truck roof top tent. Winds and rain were even better. Hammered the Tepui rtt for 3 hours straight. I think the Teton ground tent would not of held together the second night and soaked me. Or the inch of water running through camp could have found its way in. Thanks Luke for putting out solid info!
I have two tents. First was a 4 person Ozark trail from wal mart and second a 3 person Coleman. Since I am camping with cub scouts they both work for the correct season. Summer that giant open mesh of the ozark is great and can stand up in it. When it gets colder three of us in the Coleman stay nice and warm. Now my boys just want to hammock camp.
My last tent was abysmal in summer, which is 90% of when I camped. It was also impossible when temps dipped below 40F. It was also heavy and a pain to set up. Basically, it just sucked at being a tent unless it was Autumn at an established campground
coming from singapore, it doesn't matter if its fabric or mesh around the year; so long as there is an inner, it'll be a sauna in any tent.. for me, i either use my naturehike knight3 w/o its inner, or teton vista1 wif 3x3 lean-to wif lip combo.. 🤣😅😝
Arrgghhh. The first camping tent I bought last year is definitely not meant for 3 season use, very little mesh. I've since purchased one that is all mesh and the rainfly to use in summer. Wish I'd found videos like this in 2022, but I'm educated now. Thanks Luke!
a tip a local homeless person gave me, for that fourth season (winter) you can always combine certain sleeping systems. eg: bivy bag set up within a one person "3 season" tent, with both a footprint and an overhead tarp, slung low, the edges preferably touching the ground.
Most of tents I have are 3 season tents. I also have a 4 season (lower 48) NorthFace tent. It’s a 3 man (I have a large furry friend) and weights about 3 pounds more than my 2 pound wonder, but it’s true I wouldn’t bring the wonder tent on any adventure where the weather could get frisky.
This is the kind of video that helps people who are new to the outdoors lifestyle. I've preached this same thing myself (without producing a video). I should have started my own channel years ago. lol This is a valuable service to the "newbs", no doubt.
Best explanation I’ve heard of the different season tents! Thanks for making this episode. It has helped me understand what I need to look for in a tent, because I am a fair weather type camper.
I own a summer tent only.. lots of mesh, strong rainfly for those south eastern USA thunder storms... I'd take this as a "one tent" over any 4th season tent, with my sleep system, [got a few depending on hot/cold/snow] that's what keeps me warm. Plus having a lighter tent, allows me to reinforce the floor, so I can run my UL cot without tearing holes in the floor, and can't live without my UL cot system, camp off a motorcycle, so weight isn't a huge deal.. but its nice to keep things COMPACT. instead. I actually am looking for a replacement tent, but I'm going back to a Bivy, just need something slightly taller so I fit with my cot.... LOL LOVE THIS THING.
Plus one on that tent !! I have one and want another for emergencies. Somewhat heavy but Bombproof w/ the aluminum poles and ground breaking w/ the winter conversion kit !!!
I watch a lot of your videos and I get a lot of Expert advice on how you do things because you've done it for a long time. I really appreciate this video because I did not know the difference and now I do thank you so much
LOL, I needed this video 3 summers ago...I bought a tent designed for colder weather (only about 1/3 mesh), I love it in the fall.....tough to put that rain cover on in the summertime....whew!
Why don’t you ever mention REI? I have a camp dome 2 from them which I absolutely love. Don’t know why they discontinued it, to me it is the perfect 3 season tent. The only change I would like to see in it would be a vestibule. Why do I never hear you speak of REI?
I see where you’re coming from. Literally. I would suggest to add some differentiation about the region you’re talking about. Having just completed the Cape Wrath trail - a solid inner tent is the best option by far. 50mph winds in the hauling rain on the Forcan and ridge are no joke.
Already have a lightweight 3 season 1 person tent that i haven’t yet used in warm/ hot weather, mesh covers roughly 60% of the inner tent , hopefully it won't be too hot inside..... Been searching for a roomy 3 season car camping tent that is light ( under 7kg ) , min 170cm head height inside , aluminium poles , full mesh / fabric panels on 2 doors for good air flow in warm/ hot weather but also the ability to zip up the bottom half with a fabric panel to block the wind and wind blown rain in crappy weather. Couldn't find a tent that meeted those demands, settled on ordering a BA Spicer peak 4 , has more fabric than I'd prefer and no flexibility with the 2 inner tent doors . In my search i saw a comment on the BA Bunkhouse, the new 2023 model has a fair bit less mesh compared with the previous Bunkhouse, so yeah looks like cost cutting by Big agnes ........ Oh yeah i really get annoyed with sales pics showing the doors open !! In the areas i camp there is always something that will bite you !! I virtually never sit around in a tent with door/s wide open ....... marketing BS ....
Pretty much true, except for the caveat of some specific countries/regions. Brought my soulo with me on a 2-week hike through the Scottish Highlands during end of summer. Really no regrets there, especially during some nights with fierce wind and rain and battering gusts of wind. While warm (>20°C.) at midday on some days, quite a few mornings were chilly, Down jacket!-chilly. My 3-season tent (Ghost Ultralight 2) is nice in the Highlands on most days but just too cold at night and early hours, when cold air blows under the rain fly and through the mesh, on the other days. Alsof, it handles stormy winds not as well as the soulo does. If I'd go summer hiking in Mediterranean Croatia, yes, then I'd bring my 3-season 50% mesh tent. I'd guess, the type of tent depends on the answer to: "What weather can I expect there during my summer hike?"
I always believed that the season related to a tent is actually to do with height and not the time of year, but I could be wrong and a four season tent is designed to be above tree level and used on mountain's.
I've had people argue with me in your comments about what a 4th season tent is even after I explain it to them 🤣 people make a perception based on the first potential interpretation of marketing words and then they stick to that beyond any logic. They would rather be ignorant and uncomfortable than wrong. That's why companies everywhere can get away with stuff like this. People would rather be wrong than learn haha.
The season design of the tent you use really depends on where you’re camping. L48 camping is much warmer and drier than say, Alaska camping and so you want more airflow and ventilation for L48. And that yellow 3 season tent is perfect for camping in Alaska but not during winter and probably not in the hottest months (but it can get cold even in the summer here). But look at the design and you know it’s not a 4 season tent: no way does that tent handle a snow load above a light dusting. That’s why it’s a 3 season or 3+. Even then, while these tents lack the large amounts of mesh of a cooler tent, most of them do have zippered vents at the top and sides to release heat and moisture and provide some airflow. As for the other tent, try sleeping in it in high winds and rain. It’s fine as long as the rain is falling straight down but add in high winds and the fly will not prevent rain from being forced under it and through the mesh. And it’s not fun trying to sleep in wet gear. I get it that you’re showing an example of what most people will deal with when camping, but I think you should have a few different tents and select the one that best meets your expected needs for each trip.
From what I was taught and understand. a 3 SEASON tent does Not necessarily have anything to do with temperature or venting or being cooler for summer. Although a tent made with mostly/ or a lot of mesh ventilation will "Only be a 3 Season tent." Because it is "not as structurally sound". A "3 season tent" may have good ventilation or not. A 3 season tent is "does not have to be that sturdy." It will generally be made of "lighter weight/not as strong of cloth/materials. The poles for it may be Thinner and Weaker, There also may not be much in the way /amount of tent poles. A FOUR SEASON TENT probably "CANT have to much venting/mesh/weak cloth." (And you don't need much in the winter.) It will be designed to handle more weight/SNOW and wind/storms. A 3 season tent will not be as strong, (and hopefully better vented and LIGHTER WEIGHT than a 4 season tent). Which is great if you don't camp in hard core storms/snow storms. A 4 SEASON TENT should be able to stand up and hold the weight of some snow on it. a 3 Season Tent will Not. I AM STILL PRETTY SURE that the quality of venting/"coolness of the tent" is NOT WHAT MAKES A TENT a 3 season tent. It is the seasons that it is capable of standing up to. A 3 season tent will not stand up to being snowed on, it will "collapse" and maybe quite possibly break the tent poles, maybe even tear seams and cloth. a 4 SEASON TENT is supposed to be able to stand up to getting snowed on or get caught in "WINDY blizzardy condition (Within reason.) A 3 season tent Will NOT. That is the difference between 3 season and 4 season tents. The fac that the 3 season tent does Not have to stand up to the WEIGHT OF SNOW or EXTREMELY Windy conditions is what makes it a 3 season tent. Not how good or how much ventilation/screen cloth that it has. BUT NOT having to be "as structurally sound" gives them the ability to make them lighter weight, "cheaper" and with better /more ventilation. Of course of once you put the rainfly on your are NOTICEABLY REDUCING its ability to 'breath/vent". Never use the rainfly if you don't need it. Oh and Always Make sure that your tent has "NO SEE UM" screen and NOT just Mosquito screening. Most/many? theses day will have "NO SEE UM" mesh. but make sure. "NO SEE UM's" are nasty more painful biting bugs, and they are small enough to go through Mosquito netting/screening.
I get what you are saying. You are a smart guy. And the mesh has many benefits. But when looking up close at some of our mesh tents, they don't look like the mesh will last very long. I'm curious what others say for this on how long mesh will last? Because it looks flimsy.
It'll last if you take care of it and because it's so much weaker than the surrounding material it's flimsiness is more a strength than a weakness because a lot of the force of banging into it or something is absorbed by the stretch. If you snag something on it it's likely to tear, but it's nothing a needle and thread can't fix. There's different weights and qualities of mesh, though. Ultralight tents usually have ultralight mesh, but something like, say, an MSR Elixir has much heavier, stronger mesh. Personally, whether it's an ultralight tent or not, I've never had mesh fail. I've torn it, but never had it fail on it's own because it was weak or flimsy.
To add to that, pay attention to how tall the fabric walls are. This restricts airflow, and companies like Big Agnes are not immune to this design "feature". To give an example, the Big Agnes Copper Spur HV UL2...super light weight, well that's because some of the weight cuts came at the expense of mesh. The fabric walls are around 40% of the ceiling height which limits the amount of air able to pass through. Compared to the BA Fly Ceek HV UL2 Solution-Dyed...it literally just has a bath tub of floor material that transitions to 100% mesh. It is possible to work around this buy adjusting the guy-outs to promote more airflow, and air flow is the enemy of condensation, but that's just an example of two models even w/ the same brand and their design choices.
Tenting in the Canadian Rockies, temperatures can drop to near and below freezing over night, even in the middle of summer. Even in july I use a twenty (-7C) degree bag. Even when the days are 30+C (90+F) you can still have temperatures dropping during the night, so a warmer tent is better further north. Usually when I hear a tent is too warm on this Channel as he biggest complaint I know it will be good for up here.
Agreed. I have experienced this temp drop on a mountain in the AT at the end of June. Mountain weather can be unpredictable/surprising. So you have to be ready for these conditions just in case.
So i live in Ohio and we have gone through a day with a 35F temperature change. I 3 season tent with good sleep system covers most problems. Even a Coleman sky dome would work and they are not crazy high end. They do just work with a bit of weather proofing.
in the mountains a 4 season tent is definitely good for spring and fall, in the summer a cheap meshy tent with a good tarp placed above is my go-to in monsoon country, for clear weather stargazing obviously ditch tarpp.
While mesh is nice, also look at the rain fly for thoughtful ventilation features. I have a tent with a body that is 80% mesh, but the fly has no ventilation except for out the bottom when it is zipped up for rainy conditions, wind, cold, or privacy. The doors are also adjacent rather than on opposite walls. That means even with the rain fly open, air cannot flow through one side of the tent to the other. Look for functional airflow in a design that makes sense for it.
Great video. What are your thoughts on the store brand REI tents? Any chance you could review? Price is good, quality seems to be up there (maybe), and REI’s are everywhere.
REI tents are very good quality. Like every other brand they'll occasionally have a model that people just don't like for whatever reason, but as far as material and build quality goes REI tents are excellent.
What you call a 4th season tent is what I call a 3 season tent, spring, fall, and winter. I don’t camp in the summer unless I know it will be in the low 60’s at night.
In Canada where in the mountains it might snow even in the summer. That's what those tents are designed for. Where it can get cold quick. I would not use it out in the prairies it can get ridiculously hot. My previous tent had lots of inner fabric it was awful out in the grassland where it was in full sun. But was great in the mountains
You need to put some temperature guides in here. Talking about 'warmer' and 'cooler' months is relative to where you are. Warm months here in Northern England are very different to warm months in Greece. And which tent is best for both of those summers is very different!
I suspect whoever makes the tent on the left also made my Eddie Bauer Stargazer, because apart from colour it looks identical. I found it good enough in summer(all tents suck in summer), and great in cooler weather.
3 Season use is just that, 3 seasons not just the hot summer. In the UK and Europe a non-full mesh tent is almost essential in spring and autumn still. So while I agree the full fabric inner is not useable in summer, tents that have half and half are needed in a lot of countries most of the year.
Yeah the yellow tent would probably be fine in all but the hottest days here in UK and even then in Scotland it might be fine even on the hot days.
So true here in the uk you can have heat, rain and frost all in the same day. I’d rather be a little bit hot than too cold to sleep and it’s not practical to carry two tents about.
Yep MSR had to reduce the mesh when they first came into the UK with the Hubba(s) range.
@@dorislyons6223 Sierra Designs did the same with the introduction of their '3000' line of tents.
that's true but Luke is an American which means he doesn't have to know anything. US tents are very different, they are all made for weather where you actually don't need a tent at all. But how could he know?
I would always go for a 3 season (World, not just USA) tent and add some reflective foil in winter. It took me years and 100s of bucks to learn it.
You're speaking of the seasons you have in North Carolina but that's very different from the seasons I have in Northern Ontario. I can't justify buying a mesh tent because it's only useful for July and part of June and August. It gets cold at nights where you don't want one of those tents. I camp below rapids which create 100% RH condensing at night when the air temperature drops. That cloud will go right up under your fly and leave everything in your tent saturated. Then you're in big trouble if you're on a week long canoe trip. I also camp in September where it can dip below freezing at night and I've seen 5ºC at night in mid to late August. You need to pick your gear based on climate, location, use, trip duration, distance from help, among others. What I'd take car camping is not what I'd take in a backpack or canoe trip and I have very different tents and sleep systems for these very different activities.
Especially so for parts of Australia.
I’ve set up a tent at night, and woken up in the morning, sun on tent, gasping for air! You feel like you’ve been a frog in a pot of water on the stove, unknowingly being slowly cooked.
Versatility in tents helps, knowing where your going and weather predicted helps, and being able to adapt is a must.
If it is warm out a tarp is better, I know exactly what you mean about waking up in hot sweaty mess...
If there are trees then hammock for the win.
Luke I think the country or area you are using them in makes a difference about what is a 3 season tent. In UK what you call a 3 season tent is really only a 1 season I.e. summer tent. Huge mesh areas mean you get cold quick in a breeze in spring or autumn. I take your point that knowledge is power but you can’t simply call a tent an X season tent really
I appreciate your viewpoint. We spent a bit of time and money chasing the right balance for our needs in the Northeastern United States. We looked to mesh for insect protection. Ventilation was almost secondary. Later in the season, we depended on the insulation in our sleeping bags and pads for comfort.
Canada too. By end of August we can have 4C nights and that can get cold. I have an MSR Elxir 2, it's about half mesh half fabric and I still can get cold then in technically still summer time. I bring the long John's, winter bag, and 2 mattresses one closed cell and one inflatable with an R4.4. 8:13
Yes same experience in NZ.
I'm in Sweden, and this idea that a four season tent is a "fourth season tent" is entirely alien to me as well. That mindset, at least such a black and white version of it, would not work here. As Luke himself says, it could even be dangerous.
In Canada we just take the fly off during our 1 warm week
Thanks for your "NO B.S" candor/honesty when it comes to these products, Luke. Strength and honor!
So perfect that you uploaded this today! Because today as I cleaned and prepped my first ever bought tent for resale, it just came to me, it’s not mesh! I’ve known this the whole time but never really realized it. It was always bad with condensation and I blamed it on the weak and small ventilation. But today it totally dawned on me.
For tent camping, my vote for the season to avoid the most.... is Summer. I can not sleep in 88 degrees. I guess I am too old to get there, but I ain't doing it. If it is pretty cold outside, you can seal off a tent and if you have an air mattress, you will normally be OKAY. But if you are camping in Summer, and crawl in a tent when it is still hot at night? That is a prescription for MISERY.
I'm with you on this. I don't backpack at all in the summer or even very late spring or very early fall. I will backpack right through winter, though, because you can always get warm, but there's nothing you can do about the heat... except sweat.
Been to week long summer scout camps the last three years. First year hot as hades in the canvas tents. Sucked. Second head temp dropped enough at night to be ok. Third one it actually got somewhat chilly on one night. That was the best night sleep out of all of them.
Agreed I live in Missouri and it's been over 100° this week! I've been camping on my couch in the AC haha! I really only camp in the Fall months anyways.
I can’t blame you if you can’t take the heat. Try lugging an 80’s external frame pack with all the gear they had back then (about 65 lbs worth) for a three day trip at the end of June !! I will Never do that again !!
I've done a few July 4th tent camps, and two of them happened to have nights that never got below 94 and 92 respectively. Absolutely sucked! I took the rainfly off and slept naked on top of my bag hoping the RVers wouldn't look to close through my whole mesh tent 😓
I was watching a British RUclipsr doing some water craft camping, some of the people with him had tents with lots of mesh. He described them as "American style tents", and that rung true. I've used Hilleberg and Terra Nova four season tents in all four seasons in British mountains and never been too hot. Although climate is changing, so that may not be a forever thing. You just have to take your local conditions in to account too. I've recently bought my first three season tent, now that I live in the USA.
The climate is changing only in the delusional minds of the leftists.
@@Dp1v You are correct that NO climate change is happening.
I used to camp a lot when I was younger. In fact, my first wife enjoyed it as much as I did. My second wife thought roughing it was Motel 6. But in central Oklahoma where I am from, we can have subzero wind chill in the winter, 100°+ in the summer, and in between we can have all 4 seasons in the same week at any time. It makes it almost impossible to only have 1 tent.
I remember the days of cotton canvass tent camping, interesting times. With the choices today, a person can have a tent for every season. Thanks Luke👍👍
The good Ole pup tents
So do I, BSA, They had built in alarm clocks (sunup) LOL
Apart from being heavy and not that waterproof, i find them pretty comfortable in summer. Dark and cool.
@@bernielamont825 That, and the Scoutmaster trying to sing his get up song. Anyone within a hundred yard radius would get up just to make him stop.:)
I am glad I have listened to you from before. We bought two nature hike mongars for our family and it is totally worth it! In the heat and in winter time here in Texas. We have found out ourselves. We set our tent out at 105 degrees at the lake had great airflow. But when it was 28 degrees in the mountains the tent was warm! I slept outside my sleeping bag! Very happy with my purchase and it has a ground cover!!! Best purchase ever!!! You are awesome!
On point Luke. The one thing I see more of, are the big backpacking channels using 3 season tents in the winter. Then they do a gear review and wonder why they slept cold, with quality pads and sleeping bags. I dont quite understand it and it’s bad info for the newb.
I don't tent camp in winter, so I went with as much mesh in a tent I could find, with a removable shell too. Had mine for 2+ years now and am quite happy with it. I do carry a Aqua Defender tarp though, so I can make it quite comfortable in most weather.
This is one of the important videos for me in learning vicariously about having mesh all-around for camping in warmer months, and the mesh versus fabric and what capabilities they have. Thank you for your time and efforts in creating and posting this video.
Man I have seen many of your vids in here. So far, you are the only one who gives realistic and sensible tips and good advice about everything when it comes to backpacking equipment. Man, I'm a FAN... 😀
Great video. I finally bought a "4th season" tent last year. It was cheap on Amazon but with the double fabric wall and flaps that extend to the ground it really does make a difference. Even closed up it has a bit of mesh at the bottom and top to circulate some air and avoid condensation. It actually seems to work. For warm weather give me a tent with plenty of mesh though.
Thanks to your previous reviews I ordered a, TETON Sports Mountain Ultra Tents - 3 Person Backpacking Tent & the MU 3 footprint Waterproof tarp. To take in my Motorcycle trailer when camping.
Thank you, Luke, for your honest, real-hearted videos. ❤
Hoping for a big success for your channel.
Keep up the good work!😀
Yup: there are nuances. In the New England States, where I did most of my camping, a three-season tent would work for all but the warmest times. Stability and condensation were among the most important issues to manage. My lesson here was how to look at fabrics in terms of breathability.
There's a bit of over-generalization going on here. We spent a week camping in Death Valley National Park at the end of January 2020, including 4 days/3 nights backpacking the Cottonwood Canyon/Marble Canyon loop. Technically, we should have been using a traditional 3-season tent like the BA Copper Spur with a 100% mesh interior. I'm glad instead that we had our TarpTent Stratospire 2 with 1/2 solid inner. There is a LOT of fine sand that gets blown around when you're camping in the desert. If you don't have a partial solid inner, that sand will get everywhere, just like spindrift can get blown into your tent in the winter. A partial-solid inner can really improve things when there's blown desert sand to contend with. Even with our partial-solid inner on our TarpTent, we ended up having zipper issues on the inner doors. That fine sand gets into zippers and can really do a number on them.
It's amazing how wind blown sand gets through fine mesh , not very nice ...... Just on the BA Copper spur , the 1 person model I bought last year is roughly 65% mesh , 35% breathable nylon , definitely not 100% mesh , also the coated nylon bathtub floor goes up a few inches to protect from drip splashing. Haven't used the copper spur in windy conditions yet , but for the mainly warm/ hot conditions I'll be using it in i would have prefered more mesh and less " breathable " nylon .
Felt the main point mesh vs fabric is primary concern for a summer tent.
However, other features would have been good to also discuss: 2 doors, roof vents, etc.
Thanks Luke. These reviews really help. I purchased a tent having no idea what to look for. It had a lot of fabric on the inner and it was stifling hot! Now I know what to look for. Blessings to you.
I just bought an ICS for winter, I'll use my tarp the rest of the time
“Stuff” and what to buy, particularly tents can be a minefield. I just went Hilleberg straight off the bat. I had to save for the tents I have admittedly, but it has ultimately been worth it 👊👊👊💥💥💥👊👊👊
Good time to be covering this with massive heat waves going through the country.
Just stumbled across your videos today. Thanks for what you do. I enjoyed the tarp folding you demonstrated. Tents, ugh, hard to find one tent to check all the boxes. I had a Camel 60-second tent I picked up in Alaska and used for 25 years. Not very packable, but man great 4 season tent. Used down to -20°F in Alaska to 90°F + in Nebraska. I survived.
I finally picked up another tent that I like. ONE Tigress Outback Retreat. Although not a first choice if you have to pack it. From a canoe or ATV it works well. has got enough room for a cot for me and bed for my black lab to be comfortable. I used it so far in Mid-November during Nebraska deer season for a week. With two vestibules I could keep my gear in one end and a heater in the other. Held the heat in very nice.
Summer camping along the river, there's plenty of ventilation with the sides propped out and ends rolled up.
OneTigris OUTBACK RETREAT Camping Tent, 2 Person Tents for Camping Waterproof with 4 Tent Poles, Perfect for SUV RV Truck Car Camping, Backpacking, Bushcraft, Travel, Canoeing a.co/d/gvnQnGU
I think that the idea of a mesh walled, three season tent seems to be a relatively recent thing. People who didn't grow up with them may not even know they exist. When I started as a scout, we still carried those canvas pup tents on our backs. Heavy, hot, and cramped. Sure, there was ripstop tents with flys available, but no one could afford them. I remember when I first saw the Eureka tents, what a step up. In fact my son's troop was still using old Eureka tents in the 2010s when he joined. I think he was one of the first in the troop to have a mesh 3 season tent. Several of us adults began a drive to buy 3 season tents for the troop and save the Eureka's for winter camping.
Thanks Luke for your content on tents. I got a hilleberg 4 season tent and I thought you could use it for all 4 season I was wrong. They get so hot you can’t be in them AT ALL when it gets hot. And I made another mistake and had my tent up for 6 months in the direct sun and it dried out the outer shell. My tent ripped so bad I lost 2,000 on that tent.
Linen tarp has been calling my name just foe the durability
Thanks for the advice. I would not have known to check for mesh vs fabric.
👍
Great advice Luke. I’ve been very happy with my 3 season Big Agnes Copper Spur 2 person tent. It has great ventilation, 2 vestibules, and two side entrances. I also appreciate that it is a double wall tent. It is worth the price for a nylon tent.
This was great for those who didn't know! Well done Luke!
Thanks for educating me, I am new to camping and would probably gotten the fourth season tent which would be a disaster since I live in Central Texas. Our seasons tend to be Spring, Summer, Unbearably Hot and Blast Furnace! I'll keep it tuned to your channel!
I’ve used my 3 season half dome tent in Wyoming in January… it was -18 f. Drop a bit of snow around the rain fly to lower wind movement. Sure, changing in the morning is cold… but it worked fine.
This is possibly the most valuable video I've ever seen you do. I really didn't know any of this. Thank you. Strength and honor back to you ✊️
that yellow one tricked me. I thought it was super-fine (no-see-um) mesh or something. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for a valuable video. Didn’t know that difference. I’ve been using 4-season tents in summer, but that has been high up in the mountains, when it’s cold in the night and I really need the warmth it provides. For more lowlands, I will now probably buy an additional mesh inner tent to switch into.
Excellent informative video! Thank you !!! I went with the Lone Rider ADV Tent for my motorcycle trips. Pricey, however now I understand even better as to why.
Wish I knew this 4 years ago, bought a rather pricy tent that was a 3 season tent according to the sales man....2 wall tent with ventilation holes. Not anymore, now I have a new one with inner tent of mesh. Great guide !
Mesh Caveat!! They suck in dust storms! Wind blown dust will penetrate through the mesh and cover all your stuff. If you camp in the desert (or in volcanic areas) even light winds can carry dust along the ground (easy not to notice when standing up). When the mesh walls go all the way down to the bathtub floor the dust will blow under the rain fly, through the mesh and right into the tent. In such cases a fabric walled tent can help a lot; until it gets sunny and turns into and oven. I find tents that have fabric walls at least half way up and mesh uppers to be a good middle ground, but I’m out West and don’t generally camp in humid places. Love to hear more about how your local weather and environment affect your tent performance.
Great points all around Luke. Thanks for giving people an education on purchasing what could possibly be their first tent.
All this is good advice if you're camping at 4-5,000 feet, where heat and humidity are a big concern. But if I had to pick which tent I'd take up to 10,000 or 11,000 feet, I'd go with the solid fabric one. Just as an example, the top of Berthoud Pass can easily drop below freezing in the middle of July, and rainstorms turning to snow overnight are not uncommon up there.
Thank you! Now I know that the tent was the reason. This is why I hate camping in the warmer months.
Ty for the distinction between the different tent types, Luke. What I did not realize is that they are using very thin, see through rip-stop fabrics to fool people into thinking it is mesh screening !! I understand about saving weight, but I think using these fabrics are Not suitable for a 3+ or winter tent due to undoubted durability issues down the line and of course lack of airflow. If you need a winter tent, get one with lightweight, not ultralight fabric. It will be warmer and longer lasting. Yes it will be heavier, but if snow load is a possibility, what good is ultra thin fabric if it does not hold up or keep you warm enough? Leave the ultra light tents for thru hikers and 3 season summer camping.
Thank you! Would you consider doing a video on selecting tents, and securing them, for high winds/rain? I bought a non-dome tent that got crushed in 45 mph gusts and appreciate any perspective you have on tent camping in high wind situations.
Yes great points, It does however depends on the climate. In NZ we tend to avoid mesh tents as they are too cold in most of year. Yes I mad the mistake of purchasing a tent based on my NZ experience. In places that tend to have hot summers above 24deg cel then maybe more mesh. Great explaining!
Luke you always do awesome review every time in your videos thank you for sharing this with me my friend
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This past week reminded me of this recently posted video. I was camping while working out of town. My only tent of size is a Teton Mountain Ultra 3. Plenty of room for me and a comfortable week's worth of things. It's a 3 season tent. I experienced a few 34 f degree mornings along with 2 strong rain storms! The tent was folded down during the night by the winds lol! Rain was coming in under the rain fly at times too. My jacket and some clothes was the sponge! Not by choice but convenient. Luckily I staked it very well because of the forecasted weather. Definitely a great experience pushing gear limits! The tent and poles did hold up though. This was the first night of weather. On the second night I took the time to open up my truck roof top tent. Winds and rain were even better. Hammered the Tepui rtt for 3 hours straight. I think the Teton ground tent would not of held together the second night and soaked me. Or the inch of water running through camp could have found its way in.
Thanks Luke for putting out solid info!
I have two tents. First was a 4 person Ozark trail from wal mart and second a 3 person Coleman. Since I am camping with cub scouts they both work for the correct season. Summer that giant open mesh of the ozark is great and can stand up in it. When it gets colder three of us in the Coleman stay nice and warm. Now my boys just want to hammock camp.
Great video. Really like these kind of tips.
My last tent was abysmal in summer, which is 90% of when I camped. It was also impossible when temps dipped below 40F. It was also heavy and a pain to set up. Basically, it just sucked at being a tent unless it was Autumn at an established campground
I always want to get a good look at the tent inner to see what it's made of. Many hours watching gear videos...love it! Cheers Luke!
coming from singapore, it doesn't matter if its fabric or mesh around the year; so long as there is an inner, it'll be a sauna in any tent.. for me, i either use my naturehike knight3 w/o its inner, or teton vista1 wif 3x3 lean-to wif lip combo.. 🤣😅😝
Arrgghhh. The first camping tent I bought last year is definitely not meant for 3 season use, very little mesh. I've since purchased one that is all mesh and the rainfly to use in summer. Wish I'd found videos like this in 2022, but I'm educated now. Thanks Luke!
a tip a local homeless person gave me, for that fourth season (winter) you can always combine certain sleeping systems. eg: bivy bag set up within a one person "3 season" tent, with both a footprint and an overhead tarp, slung low, the edges preferably touching the ground.
Most of tents I have are 3 season tents. I also have a 4 season (lower 48) NorthFace tent. It’s a 3 man (I have a large furry friend) and weights about 3 pounds more than my 2 pound wonder, but it’s true I wouldn’t bring the wonder tent on any adventure where the weather could get frisky.
This is the kind of video that helps people who are new to the outdoors lifestyle. I've preached this same thing myself (without producing a video). I should have started my own channel years ago. lol This is a valuable service to the "newbs", no doubt.
Best explanation I’ve heard of the different season tents! Thanks for making this episode. It has helped me understand what I need to look for in a tent, because I am a fair weather type camper.
I own a summer tent only.. lots of mesh, strong rainfly for those south eastern USA thunder storms... I'd take this as a "one tent" over any 4th season tent, with my sleep system, [got a few depending on hot/cold/snow] that's what keeps me warm. Plus having a lighter tent, allows me to reinforce the floor, so I can run my UL cot without tearing holes in the floor, and can't live without my UL cot system, camp off a motorcycle, so weight isn't a huge deal.. but its nice to keep things COMPACT. instead. I actually am looking for a replacement tent, but I'm going back to a Bivy, just need something slightly taller so I fit with my cot.... LOL LOVE THIS THING.
Thanks for the reviews , points make sence to me are the rain and wind proof .
That’s why I got the Litefighter… I can use it year round! And I love it!
Plus one on that tent !! I have one and want another for emergencies. Somewhat heavy but Bombproof w/ the aluminum poles and ground breaking w/ the winter conversion kit !!!
I watch a lot of your videos and I get a lot of Expert advice on how you do things because you've done it for a long time. I really appreciate this video because I did not know the difference and now I do thank you so much
LOL, I needed this video 3 summers ago...I bought a tent designed for colder weather (only about 1/3 mesh), I love it in the fall.....tough to put that rain cover on in the summertime....whew!
Spot on, thanks for the great info. I'm looking for a tent right now. This will help me avoid an expensive mistake
Why don’t you ever mention REI? I have a camp dome 2 from them which I absolutely love. Don’t know why they discontinued it, to me it is the perfect 3 season tent. The only change I would like to see in it would be a vestibule. Why do I never hear you speak of REI?
I see where you’re coming from. Literally. I would suggest to add some differentiation about the region you’re talking about. Having just completed the Cape Wrath trail - a solid inner tent is the best option by far. 50mph winds in the hauling rain on the Forcan and ridge are no joke.
I have that exact Big Agnes tent (Happy Hooligan) - it's great for 3-season camping (here in the US at least). It has good ventilation and well built.
It would have been interesting to have seen a temperature reading of the inside of each tent to see the actual difference.
Already have a lightweight 3 season 1 person tent that i haven’t yet used in warm/ hot weather, mesh covers roughly 60% of the inner tent , hopefully it won't be too hot inside.....
Been searching for a roomy 3 season car camping tent that is light ( under 7kg ) , min 170cm head height inside , aluminium poles , full mesh / fabric panels on 2 doors for good air flow in warm/ hot weather but also the ability to zip up the bottom half with a fabric panel to block the wind and wind blown rain in crappy weather. Couldn't find a tent that meeted those demands, settled on ordering a BA Spicer peak 4 , has more fabric than I'd prefer and no flexibility with the 2 inner tent doors . In my search i saw a comment on the BA Bunkhouse, the new 2023 model has a fair bit less mesh compared with the previous Bunkhouse, so yeah looks like cost cutting by Big agnes ........ Oh yeah i really get annoyed with sales pics showing the doors open !! In the areas i camp there is always something that will bite you !! I virtually never sit around in a tent with door/s wide open ....... marketing BS ....
Hi, greetins from Mexico. This was a real great tent information. Thanks a lot, Luke.
Thank you for the teaching episodes. I enjoy them a lot and they bring a lot of value to me.
Some extra knowledge I did no know, thankyou.👍😉
Big fan of your channel. Love this kind of educational videos. Knowledge probably hard won but freely shared. Thanks ❤
Thank you so much for this wonderful video, you are awesome and amazing 👏.
Pretty much true, except for the caveat of some specific countries/regions.
Brought my soulo with me on a 2-week hike through the Scottish Highlands during end of summer.
Really no regrets there, especially during some nights with fierce wind and rain and battering gusts of wind.
While warm (>20°C.) at midday on some days, quite a few mornings were chilly, Down jacket!-chilly.
My 3-season tent (Ghost Ultralight 2) is nice in the Highlands on most days but just too cold at night and early hours, when cold air blows under the rain fly and through the mesh, on the other days.
Alsof, it handles stormy winds not as well as the soulo does.
If I'd go summer hiking in Mediterranean Croatia, yes, then I'd bring my 3-season 50% mesh tent.
I'd guess, the type of tent depends on the answer to:
"What weather can I expect there during my summer hike?"
Awesome video again Luke. Very sound advice! Thanks for sharing. All the best my friend 🙂👍
I wonder how many other British people when he said there’s a time & a place for 4th season tents, were saying, “most of the time here” 😂😂😂
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I always believed that the season related to a tent is actually to do with height and not the time of year, but I could be wrong and a four season tent is designed to be above tree level and used on mountain's.
I've had people argue with me in your comments about what a 4th season tent is even after I explain it to them 🤣 people make a perception based on the first potential interpretation of marketing words and then they stick to that beyond any logic. They would rather be ignorant and uncomfortable than wrong.
That's why companies everywhere can get away with stuff like this. People would rather be wrong than learn haha.
Thank You Luke Very Informative ❤I Love Watching your Channel Please Dont Leave RUclips You And Suzie Bring So Much Joy For Me To Watch❤❤❤
Great episod !! There is so many different materials to keep track of
The season design of the tent you use really depends on where you’re camping. L48 camping is much warmer and drier than say, Alaska camping and so you want more airflow and ventilation for L48.
And that yellow 3 season tent is perfect for camping in Alaska but not during winter and probably not in the hottest months (but it can get cold even in the summer here). But look at the design and you know it’s not a 4 season tent: no way does that tent handle a snow load above a light dusting. That’s why it’s a 3 season or 3+. Even then, while these tents lack the large amounts of mesh of a cooler tent, most of them do have zippered vents at the top and sides to release heat and moisture and provide some airflow.
As for the other tent, try sleeping in it in high winds and rain. It’s fine as long as the rain is falling straight down but add in high winds and the fly will not prevent rain from being forced under it and through the mesh. And it’s not fun trying to sleep in wet gear.
I get it that you’re showing an example of what most people will deal with when camping, but I think you should have a few different tents and select the one that best meets your expected needs for each trip.
From what I was taught and understand. a 3 SEASON tent does Not necessarily have anything to do with temperature or venting or being cooler for summer. Although a tent made with mostly/ or a lot of mesh ventilation will "Only be a 3 Season tent." Because it is "not as structurally sound". A "3 season tent" may have good ventilation or not. A 3 season tent is "does not have to be that sturdy." It will generally be made of "lighter weight/not as strong of cloth/materials. The poles for it may be Thinner and Weaker, There also may not be much in the way /amount of tent poles.
A FOUR SEASON TENT probably "CANT have to much venting/mesh/weak cloth." (And you don't need much in the winter.) It will be designed to handle more weight/SNOW and wind/storms. A 3 season tent will not be as strong, (and hopefully better vented and LIGHTER WEIGHT than a 4 season tent). Which is great if you don't camp in hard core storms/snow storms. A 4 SEASON TENT should be able to stand up and hold the weight of some snow on it. a 3 Season Tent will Not. I AM STILL PRETTY SURE that the quality of venting/"coolness of the tent" is NOT WHAT MAKES A TENT a 3 season tent. It is the seasons that it is capable of standing up to. A 3 season tent will not stand up to being snowed on, it will "collapse" and maybe quite possibly break the tent poles, maybe even tear seams and cloth. a 4 SEASON TENT is supposed to be able to stand up to getting snowed on or get caught in "WINDY blizzardy condition (Within reason.) A 3 season tent Will NOT. That is the difference between 3 season and 4 season tents. The fac that the 3 season tent does Not have to stand up to the WEIGHT OF SNOW or EXTREMELY Windy conditions is what makes it a 3 season tent. Not how good or how much ventilation/screen cloth that it has. BUT NOT having to be "as structurally sound" gives them the ability to make them lighter weight, "cheaper" and with better /more ventilation. Of course of once you put the rainfly on your are NOTICEABLY REDUCING its ability to 'breath/vent". Never use the rainfly if you don't need it. Oh and Always Make sure that your tent has "NO SEE UM" screen and NOT just Mosquito screening. Most/many? theses day will have "NO SEE UM" mesh. but make sure. "NO SEE UM's" are nasty more painful biting bugs, and they are small enough to go through Mosquito netting/screening.
Should’ve done a temp test inside each tent for example.
Good video though. Thanks for shooting straight and being honest
I get what you are saying. You are a smart guy. And the mesh has many benefits. But when looking up close at some of our mesh tents, they don't look like the mesh will last very long. I'm curious what others say for this on how long mesh will last? Because it looks flimsy.
It'll last if you take care of it and because it's so much weaker than the surrounding material it's flimsiness is more a strength than a weakness because a lot of the force of banging into it or something is absorbed by the stretch. If you snag something on it it's likely to tear, but it's nothing a needle and thread can't fix. There's different weights and qualities of mesh, though. Ultralight tents usually have ultralight mesh, but something like, say, an MSR Elixir has much heavier, stronger mesh.
Personally, whether it's an ultralight tent or not, I've never had mesh fail. I've torn it, but never had it fail on it's own because it was weak or flimsy.
To add to that, pay attention to how tall the fabric walls are. This restricts airflow, and companies like Big Agnes are not immune to this design "feature".
To give an example, the Big Agnes Copper Spur HV UL2...super light weight, well that's because some of the weight cuts came at the expense of mesh.
The fabric walls are around 40% of the ceiling height which limits the amount of air able to pass through. Compared to the BA Fly Ceek HV UL2 Solution-Dyed...it literally just has a bath tub of floor material that transitions to 100% mesh.
It is possible to work around this buy adjusting the guy-outs to promote more airflow, and air flow is the enemy of condensation, but that's just an example of two models even w/ the same brand and their design choices.
Tenting in the Canadian Rockies, temperatures can drop to near and below freezing over night, even in the middle of summer. Even in july I use a twenty (-7C) degree bag. Even when the days are 30+C (90+F) you can still have temperatures dropping during the night, so a warmer tent is better further north.
Usually when I hear a tent is too warm on this Channel as he biggest complaint I know it will be good for up here.
Agreed. I have experienced this temp drop on a mountain in the AT at the end of June. Mountain weather can be unpredictable/surprising. So you have to be ready for these conditions just in case.
This was super helpful!! Thank you!!
So i live in Ohio and we have gone through a day with a 35F temperature change. I 3 season tent with good sleep system covers most problems.
Even a Coleman sky dome would work and they are not crazy high end. They do just work with a bit of weather proofing.
Tysm for this IMPORTANT information!! 👍 😃
Glad I saw this. I might have made a mistake.
Ty Luke!! Love your content you are so much help ! Glad your eyes and ears and mind are looking out for all of us!!
in the mountains a 4 season tent is definitely good for spring and fall, in the summer a cheap meshy tent with a good tarp placed above is my go-to in monsoon country, for clear weather stargazing obviously ditch tarpp.
While mesh is nice, also look at the rain fly for thoughtful ventilation features. I have a tent with a body that is 80% mesh, but the fly has no ventilation except for out the bottom when it is zipped up for rainy conditions, wind, cold, or privacy. The doors are also adjacent rather than on opposite walls. That means even with the rain fly open, air cannot flow through one side of the tent to the other. Look for functional airflow in a design that makes sense for it.
Great video.
What are your thoughts on the store brand REI tents? Any chance you could review? Price is good, quality seems to be up there (maybe), and REI’s are everywhere.
REI tents are very good quality. Like every other brand they'll occasionally have a model that people just don't like for whatever reason, but as far as material and build quality goes REI tents are excellent.
What you call a 4th season tent is what I call a 3 season tent, spring, fall, and winter. I don’t camp in the summer unless I know it will be in the low 60’s at night.
In Canada where in the mountains it might snow even in the summer. That's what those tents are designed for. Where it can get cold quick.
I would not use it out in the prairies it can get ridiculously hot. My previous tent had lots of inner fabric it was awful out in the grassland where it was in full sun. But was great in the mountains
You need to put some temperature guides in here. Talking about 'warmer' and 'cooler' months is relative to where you are. Warm months here in Northern England are very different to warm months in Greece. And which tent is best for both of those summers is very different!
Absolutely Awesome Information and on point. Thanks
I suspect whoever makes the tent on the left also made my Eddie Bauer Stargazer, because apart from colour it looks identical.
I found it good enough in summer(all tents suck in summer), and great in cooler weather.
Thanks Luke.