Same here. Last weekend while camping on the Delmarva Peninsula I realized I may have been doing it all wrong. Let's just say I need a winter tent and a zero degree sleeping bag.
Excellent advice. When I was a kid I had to learn these lessons the hard way. It's no fun waking up with your sleeping bag sloshing around in a pool of cold water. Back in the day, we had canvas pup tents with no "bathtub floor," and would dig a small trench around the base of our tent so the water shedding off the tent would be routed away. We also had no double walls in our tents, but canvas would swell in a rain and create a watertight barrier. But if you messed up and touched the tent ceiling from the inside, it would form an instant leak by having the fabric disturbed.
The very first thing about setting up a tent, you missed it, pick and choose the exact micro climate the tent will sit on.. Never pick and absolutely flat and level spot. If it rains you will be doing the midnight backstroke. Never set up right under a tree without checking for dead limbs. Never set up out in the wide open if you have a choice,, something, anything to break the wind. The ideal tent site is on the tiniest little nearly flat mound. It only has to be a couple of inches higher than the surrounding AND it must have drainage away from the tent. Near bushes to break the wind, not under huge trees that can direct lightning. Pick the spot perfectly first.
Don't put your tent AGAINST the bushes tho. They are FULL of ticks! Packing the tent the next day will be time-consuming trying to pick the little boogers off so you don't take them with you!
Also be aware of the local topography. Last thing you want is for your specific tent location to get down below freezing on what’s supposed to be a warm night because you set camp in a cold sink
Hey Dan, great video. I agreed with nearly everything you said except the guy line tightening statement. When one is in windy conditions, the wind acts on the fly like a big sail and given the surface area it can whip the fly with a lot of force. Tents with looser guy lines enable the tent to be whipped by the wind and the shock of the guy stopping that movement when the slack in the guy is used up puts a lot of strain on the reinforcement which can begin to tear it loose. Guy lines should be taut, not like the cables of a suspension bridge, for sure, but enough to prevent the fly/guy combo from being yanked. An modification to the guy system that one could make is to add a small elastic bugee about three or four inches long between a pair of loops tied in the guy line so that when staked, the bungee is under tension but there is a bit of slack in the guy line. When pushed by the wind, the elastic can "snub" the force before the guy reaches the end of it's slack and lessen the snapping of the fly. I learned about this from some mountaneers while doing some winter hiking in the Cascades.
THANK YOU SO MUCH! I have a question though...Why not just put some shock cord at the end of the guy line? Would that work too? This bungee between two loops in the line...I drew that out as i read it so I could see what you were talking about...essentially it would act to slow down the 'stop' once the line is taught...pretty much like how a static vs dynamic rope will greatly decrease the shock to the person on the rope when they fall. So the tent is like the person and the bungee is exactly like a bungee, except in this loop system, there is eventually a tight 'stopping' point. The concept makes sense to me. I'm just curious if you could just use a piece of shock cord at one end instead of having to tie the loops and the bungee between the loops. It has been a couple of years since I took physics...I really think if I was in physics right now, that I could figure this problem out. But yes...the 'bungee effect' in general reduces strain on the tent because Force is proportional to accelleration, and accelleration is just velocity squared, so basically if you slow that snap down, you decrease the force because F=ma.
@andreameigs1261 I think that if you put a piece of bungee between the stake and tie down, which is essentially what you are talking about, it might act like a spring, constantly stretching and shortening. With the system as I have described you would have the guy rope acting as a "limiter" when the slack is used up. And bungee also has fatigue limits, as long as it is kept below a certain threshold of stretch. So the guy rope snubs the bungee to below that threshold, and the bungee snubs the guy line from accelerating with too much force.
Here in Belgium everyone gets introduced to tents because of camp sites at music festivals. Basically everyone gets the same brand from a European sports and camping store (Decathlon) which are known to have great quality, cheap, double walled pop-up tents that are insanely easy to set up. They go for around €60 and I've been using mine for about 6-8 years now.
I just ordered a backpack from them. Looking forward to testing it out! Only just heard of them couple weeks ago. I appreciate the price of the pack as they are pretty expensive in other brands and the folks reviewing them raves about how comfortable they are…
@@AllThingsConsidered333 Their backpacks are awesome. I've had quite a few backpacks but theirs is by far the most comfortable that does not cost hundreds of euros. I loaded it up with 30kg recently and could walk over 5km with it on my back without any discomfort other than my legs buckling under the weight😅 Would appreciate dedicated popup-tent-attachment-points, though.
Vestibules are also great for keeping the rain out of the inner tent when entering/exiting. I've got one tent with no vestibule to speak of and when you open the zips to get in/out, rain can come in through both inner and outer doors. With a decent vestibule, you've got an area that shelters the inner door and you can have both open without rain pouring through and filling up the "bathtub".
That's the most important reason for me. I never put any gear out in the vestibule, especially my boots. It's always a little drier and warmer inside the tent where I sleep, and I don't like the idea of bugs and critters getting into my stuff...
@@ccrider77 My single person Macpac, the vestibule is literally only just large enough to create a "rain shadow" over the tent inner. There's not enough room inside the vestibule to put a pair of hiking boots - so they and the pack are sharing the tent, no matter what. These days, though, I hammock camp under a sizeable tarp, in which case anything that's not actually the hammock itself is "vestibule". There's even "vestibule" *under* the hammock!🤣 So I have to do things like stick my shoes inside plastic bags to keep the bugs out.
One benefit to buying the footprint meant for your tent is the fast fly mode (setting up the rainfly without the body of the tent). Super helpful if you get caught in the rain, or it is raining when you get to your campsite.
Agree with this, but some tent makes and models, their groundsheets only come with cordage, no eyelets/clips for the poles/fly.... These require a bit of modding....
Another tip for the better tents is watch Luke On "The Outdoor Gear Review" Saved a lot of frustration with his reviews of set ups, then weather testing of many tents. All kinds of priced tents And he is not sponsored by any tent maker.
I wish I new that one person tents are very small and just mean as a shelter and that a two person tent is really a one person tent with a decent amount of space to chill when is raining or just to read when I can sleep. My first tent was a Lashan one and I only used once because I hated how small it is. Maybe I will give a second chance in the snow and see if I like it.
Good info. I started out in the old canvas wall tent when I was a kid and progressed to a 2 man backpack tent for places like Philmont Scout ranch in NM and hiking Mt Washington in NH. Got old and the wife insisted on a camper. Now I am back to a canvas Kodiak Canvas truck tent. Almost full circle. I still have the old Eddie Bauer nylon (when they actually sold outdoor stuff) but it's 50 years old and would probably disintegrate in a breeze if I ever set it up. Thanks for the video, Stay safe and God bless.
Many tents come with covers that form vestibule, which creates a double layer to keep moisture off the tent and allow circulation through/over your tent to keep it cooler in warm weather. Never seen a tent with a pad cover...so we always used big tarps to lay below the tent, but Tyvek is a good suggestion.
My 1st tent back in the 80's was a winter tent made here in Quebec Canada. It won a design award. You could put it up in the middle of a Canadian blizzardin two minutes, approx. Built-in innerwall, two poles going crossways. Simply pull out one end of the tent from the bag and stake two ties pull out more, slip in poles crossways, pull and stake opposite end, whole tent went up instantly. And it came 'avec un vestibule'. It was my 1st ever camping trip, from Canada through the USA to the bottom of Mexico. 1st stop was the 'Rainbow Gathering' which my friends neglected to tell me was the largest nudist gathering in the USA. I left them and continued on by myself. 2nd stop was first time going into a totally different situation in Mexico by myself but all went well, nice people. It was nice back then, wouldn't try that today. My new winter tent has a skirt to pile snow around.
Can’t tell you how much you’ve helped me starting out. I would of waisted a ton of money on the wrong items. I now I have list of items needed and the order I’m buying them. I can see how easy it is to go down the gear rabbit hole, but damn it’s fun. Thanks again and I enjoy watching you on The Office Jim!
When l camp (bushcamp or car camp), l bring two tarps with me... one for a ground sheet and one for a waterproof fly to fit over the tent. Depending on the size of the tent, these can be purchased at a Dollar Store, or big box store...they are very inexpensive. Using these two tarps gives you a waterproof undersheet for the tent, and a second "wall" to collect condensation and make the tent rain proof. Simple, lightweight, cheap and effective. No mystery.
We always did the same. Now it's just me. Last time I camped was out at the farm where I have my horses. I had the tarp under my tent, but no way to put one above it.
This September I backpacked for a couple weeks on the SHT. This was my first backpacking trip since 1983 and I was really curious to see how it went with my gear. I started with a Zpacks Solplex. It's a good tent and it did amazing in a super bad (I mean SUPER bad!) thunderstorm that came in 3 waves with torrential rain and high winds. The tent did great. Really impressive tent performance (damn scary night though!). But the condensation in the tent was pretty bad and that ended up being a deal-breaker for me. I switched over to my BA Fly Creek UL2 and I was much happier in a double-wall tent. My daughter used a Zpacks Altaplex (single wall) and was happy with it.
And most of the single wall tents also have double reflective material along with vents keep that type of condensation from Gathering at least a good tent will have that so that kind of defeats your purpose of the whole having a double walled tent not to mention having a double wall 10 does not prevent you from having condensation dripped down on you I've used both types that you refer to and still had condensation drip on me not to mention with a double wall tent if you have a good wind storm you run the risk of having that outer layer ripped right off leaving you exposed to the elements
Nice Review. I like to add that my layer down to the tent have plástic (protects better not only the floor tent and better insulation) to the lenght of the vestibule too. Because there we enter normally crouching and you dont want to wet your knees in wet grass. Just my xp. Other advice Is look for the Gap between roof and floor. Good tents have minimal gaps or none (lateral winds comes by the gaps)
I use two person footprint on my single tent, I setup my tent in once side and use the rest of footprints for my gear and seating it under vestibule so no worry about rain and keep my gear clean.
I’m loving all your content. It’s clear, informative and you can tell you enjoy it and aren’t just trying to make a quick buck. Your videos are some of the few things I can watch all the way through and remain interested.
If I am car camping, I take a bigger tent and a smaller tent, and set them up with the smaller tent inside the bigger tent. Works great for airflow if you have a lot of rain because you can keep the windows of the inner tent open and not use the rainfly. Also gives you space for gear or wet boots. Would maybe work for backpacking if you have two people who can each carry a tent.
Thank you for this video im about to buy my first tent never owned any camping stuff before and your cahnnel Helps alot. I hope for more winter tent / Gear videos. Love your Chanel dan. Best regarda from Dalarna in Sweden
This video was very informative for a beginner like me. I've been wanting to buy a decent tent for some weekend trips but most importantly for my upcoming multi month/year overlanding trip and this is really helping me make the decision on the right tent for me.
I have a waterproof single wall tent. It is an old Early Winters goretex tent. Two person tent that weighs 4 lbs. It was a breakthrough in its day. It is 30 years old and still works though it only saw heavy use for the first few years and then sporadically after that.
What I wish I had known is that 2 walled tents take longer to set up and usually you have to set up the inside wall first (which isn't water resistant). Seems obvious, but it's not obvious how much more bothersome they are during the rain - by the time your tent is set up your bathtub floor can really earn it's name
Which is why having a camping tarp to put up first so you can have a dry area to work in. Doesn't have to be a fantastic tarp, just something quick to put up so you can put up your tent.
@@riley1636 hilleberg and fjallraven are both vastly overpriced, and hilleberg are usually over weight. There are many other decent makes which are outer first pitch, who are far cheaper and in some cases better. Hilleberg are a rip off.
@@Chris66able i got my Vango scafell 200 for 100 euros in a sale. Double wall, outside pitches first, or can be pitched together like you said with both connected. The inside is not "mesh", but it's easy to setup (under 5 mins), big enough (i am 6.2 and fit easily). And it's good quality.
Talking of bath tub floor, it actually became a bath tub with water inside when I was camping at Malam Jabba. Storm came that flew away the top tarp and then water keep accumulating inside till it was filled!
Great advice and information Dan well worth a view. Ive got the lot , Tyvek footprints , Golite single skin teepee with tub floor (10 years old still great) Vaude Terra Trio up in one 2 skin tough as old boots. And a 6' teepee with built in tub and 6 vents to lower condensation. I pick which depending on the season. PS for those who dont know stick your Tyvek in the washing machine it comes out just like Dans as its normally stiff as sheet cardboard
I usually have one of my cheap two wall tents set up in the woods between the house and the road. I keep a sleeping bag, blankets, pillow and pad inside. I never know when I'm going to sleep in it with my dog. I have an old piece of a coal stove to build a fire in and cook over.
My family had a big Terka tent, canvas with a steel frame on the inside. Yes it's heavy but for staying in one place for a week or more it's better then our big dome tent. Both tents work well but we use the one that suits our camping trip, dome if we are moving about every couple of days, Terka for stopping in one local for awhile. The Terka has no floor but does have sleeping compartments that hang from the internal frame, flyscreen top and sides with a large heavy rubber tub where you put your matress and sleeping gear. The dome has a bathtub floor and has been tested by rain and that one time our camp site got flooded, we stayed dry but had to dry the tent out when we got home.
I love videos at Camp Becker! As a former cheesehead its like visiting home. I often ponder how many backpackers you could actually hostel in your "camp" at once time. That would be a funny sight; walking out on your deck in the morning to a sea of tents. Great information.
I was that guy who figured that an army tent was the best pick ever. I had one from what must have been the Korean War era which always smelled of some chemicals and mildew and only ever magnified every issue like cold, heat and rain, so it was colder than hell when it was cold, hotter than hell when warm and I swear it leeched moisture from the air to make everything damp and clammy. I endured this crap for years figuring I was still better off than anyone else. Then I bought a modern tent, never looked back for a second.
Good stuff! Been thinking about picking up a single wall tent to replace my double wall, but I am concerned about the condensation thing. But they are just so LIGHT!
@@KB-ce7gf Thank you! I really appreciate your thoughts. My only other concern is how well the dyneema will hold up to my two huskies. They are well behaved, but even well behaved dogs have claws... I'm seriously considering the triplex because of the room (and only 3 oz heavier than the duplex!) so I can go with 1 other person and my 2 dogs.
@DJ Ness I hadn't considered the thought that it's easier to wipe of condensation of a single wall, but you're right. I've experienced bad condensation in a double wall as well, but seemed like it was easier to keep my gear away from the condensation since it's on the 'second wall'. But are right that it's always there. May actually be easier to manage in a single wall like you said. You're talking me into the Zpacks, so keep it coming! 🤣
My thoughts on the huskies is to cut a piece of tyvek the size of the floor and place it down inside before you allow them in. Tip: run the tyvek in a washing machine a couple times to soften it up so it’s not all stiff like when it’s new.
I grabbed a tent on clearance cause it was cheap. We set it up for the first time a few days ago and was pleasantly surprised. Of course i didn't have anything I should have but we made it work. Had a good night's sleep in the yard. We really need sleeping pads etc. We slept on top of cheap sleeping bags with regular blankets. 😅
Loved your video. One tip about Bath tub floors, some tents the floors run 1/2 up the side and some closer to the ground. The floors that run up higher on the tent will block the air flow. This is good for keeping you dryer and warmer in bad weather, but in makes the tent hotter in warm weather. If you are below the Bath tub wall, you will not get any cool breezes during the night when you have the top pulled back. The height of the Tent is important. Low tents you have to laydown to change clothes in tent. Taller ones you can be in a sitting or kneeling positions to change clothes in the tent. Think about your needs when buying a tent. Campground camping is different from back backing. I did motorcycle camping at campgrounds. I needed a tent to compact into a small size, but hated laying down to change clothes. They make so many different kinds of tents am sure you will find one you like.
I'm a noob. I usually use a spear scrap pice of tarp for the sub floor. Multi purpose. 5:55 you chat about moister. Does the double wall work for this if the first wall is not mesh ?
Maybe that's why a single wall tent has LESS condensation than double wall due to being cooler.... and probably more drafty. Single wall type mid is the way to go
My first tent cost about 50 euros/dollars. I used it everywhere, North Europe, the Alps, Australia and New Zealand, Brazil, Andes, Sierra Nevada, ... It didn't have any bells and whistles, and it wasn't super light, but it worked. You can start basic.
Bathtub floors - not all modern tents have them, its especially common on tents that are made to take stoves, as they often have cutouts on the floor to place the stove in. There are still tents made that have no floor at all, often for winter use. Double wall tent - some tents have an inner layer, or an inner insert. for example, an 8 man bell tent will have an outer layer of heavy green canvas, and then inside a "set of tie points, where an inner layer of canvas wool, or cloth, creates an air gap between the outer and inner walll. This air gap acts as insulation to prevent heat from radiating directly out. Some of these set ups even include then an outer "shell" to protect the outer canvas help shed ice, and in some cases help camouflage the tent. Double walled tents TEND to be better for winter, because of the insulation factor of that air gap.
I've got 5 tents and each works well for various scenarios. I'd add that in good weather a cheapie will do, but in inclement weather/cold a small heavy double wall tent with triangulated guy lines, solid ground perimeter staking, factory footprint with staking loops, and intenternal guys for high wind situations has kept me alive in major snowstorms and 70mph winds for two days. It's been used on Everest campaigns and is considered bulletproof.
How about considering how many people will be in the tent and how tall they will be, plus factoring in the space needed for equipment and bags when choosing a tent? I distinctly remember being on a Girl Guide camping trip and learning that lesson.
Tip #1 omg! I have always purchased cheap tents until recently. It came with an "extra" piece that I had no clue as to the use because I've always had to purchase my own tarps (a.k.a. footprint!) for this use. Thank you.
I’m new to the hiking/camping thing. I’ve been using a Kelty late start single person tent. I’ve used it three times now and so far so good. Came with a footprint. Had a small vestibule. It was decently priced also.
My tent was free I found it in the garbage and very minimal cost my set up for the most part. Also found in the bin a car windshield sun screen for underneath the tent along with foam mats. Best things in life are free!!!
Please say if the set up tent will continue holding its shape even with a full night's wet snow storm. Lots of snow comes down fluffy and light, but also lots of snow tends to get wet and get a lot heavier--a lot heavier. My guess is if a full size man can lay fully extended on top of the installed tent and no real deforming, then it probably would stand a wet snow storm before you can get out and brush the wet snow in the morning..
Guy lines are also useful for preventing condensation, if the walls are touching each other it will condensate in the internal one, so you need to separate them
Love your content, dude! I'm looking to get into backpacking and hiking myself, and all of your "BLANK I'd wish I'd bought/hadn't bought" / "things I wish I knew" videos are super informative! I only wish we had the same range of gear in Australia as you folks have in the USA..!
I got lucky when entering this maze of outdoor gear. Dan Becker said buy the big agnes tiger wall ul2, the nemo tensor 3" pad, and a host of other stuff. I did. Little did I know that these items wind up on the 2018 buy list only to be put on the 2019 what didn't work out list. Mine held up and I don't regret too many expensive purchases. Also got the UGC bandit quilt. Again, just luck, but Dan gets credit! Doesn't take too long to figure out the churn and burn of the youtube channel and products.
Shouldn't you have added that another benefit of double wall is if inside wall is not just mesh then you have two layers of water protection including increasing warmth and if you touch inside of tent it won't as easily start a drip like if you touch outside.
The first tent my husband and I bought was a 2-person one from Walmart. I don't remember much about it, but it was sent to the thrift store about 2 years later. We then used a hand-me-down from my folks before buying our own (a Eureka Chic-Choc 5, perfect for car camping with kids). It hit my major requirements: 5-person tent for a 4-person family, full fly, and a vestibule. Bonus: there was a manufacturer's defect (that we easily fixed), so we got it for 75% off at Sail. It works great for late spring, summer, and early fall, and it's fairly easy to set up and take down.
One might want to consider that with few exceptions tents are not waterproof they are just highly water resistant (hopefully). You can compare the water resistance levels of tents by Hydrostatic Head (HH), which measures how water-resistant a fabric is. The measurement is in millimeters and relates to how high a column of water standing on the fabric would need to be before the water would penetrate the fabric. Higher is better, but as with most things there are trade offs like weight, breathability, possibly price. Most reputable manufacturers will state the HH. You need to consider the environments your shelter will be used. You may be able to increase (or refresh) your tent's water resistance by using spray on repellents and seam sealants, but do follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
Hi, guy from the UK here. One thing you didn't mention was inner Vs outer first pitching, something that's been a problem for me. Over here most tents are pitched outer first so the inner stays dry because we assume it's probably going to rain, but I'm not sure I've ever seen an American tent that pitches like that, all of them are inner first. I get why that is, you probably have more predictable weather, and inner first ones are generally freestanding so are easier to set up on harder ground (I know there are other reasons, but I won't bother listing them). What I don't get is what do you do when it does rain? Just accept that it's going to get wet? Or can you put it up quick enough that it doesn't matter and you can wipe up the water with a towel? I'm asking because I'm thinking about getting the Sierra designs meteor 3000, one that pitches inner first, because US tents do have some advantages over European ones (generally two side doors with big vestibules, surprisingly rare over here but a great feature), but I'm not sure how comfortable it will be in our climate
We bought our tent from Macpac in New Zealand and you pitch the inner and fly simultaneously. I think it’s called a multi-pitch system. They generally have two doors and vestibules also. May be worth checking out as they have been branching out to overseas markets.
Practice setting up whichever tent you have until u can set it up rather quickly. Plus Youd be surprised at how much water deflection the mesh does. Then yes u dry up any extra. Even most inner first tents can actually be set up outer first with practice. If the tent poles don’t slide through inner fabric then u can most likely set up outer first. As long as the rain fly has pole end mounts versus clipping to the inner pole end mounts. Hope this helps!
I've used a Coleman 2-man backpacking tent for 20yrs of chasing scouters around ! Double wall, no footprint, big vestibules. Its still operable but the fabric is thin and it smelled funny last time it was up. I keep it water-proofed and dried out after every excursion.
People STILL don't understand the single / double wall concept. The moisture from your breath and sweat will condense on ANY wall once that wall reaches the dew point for the air inside. Doesn't matter if it is "breathable" or not. Same for outerwear with the costly and utterly useless "Gore-Tex" and similar fabrics. Warm, moist air hits a cool surface, condensation happens. One wall or two, the key is VENTILATION. Don't let the moisture inside get to the dew point level for the temperature outside, you'll be fine. For outerwear, that usually mean pit vents and a loose waist. For a tent, vents are the key, or, if you are going double wall, big mesh panels as shown in this video. But an "inner" tent with great big mesh panels ON TOP is not part of a double wall tent, it is simply an anti-bug tent. The best double-wall tent concept was first (AFAIK) figured out and marketed ~50 years ago by Stephenson's "Warmlite." These tents have two IMPERMEBLE walls, separated by a narrow air gap when properly pitched, and WELL VENTILATED. The air gap allows the inner tent to actually be a bit warmer at the wall than the outdoor air, the vents keep the humidity to a moderate level, and because the fabric is impermeable, and condensation doesn't saturate the fabric -- it sponges off and evaporates readily. Amazing that tent designers have failed to understand physics for at least 5 decades, even after Jack Stephenson gave us a Master Class on it.
Back in 1989 when my husband and I came up the Alaska highway from Iowa to Anchorage, we camped every night. One night in Canada the wind was so strong that the only way to keep our tent from flying away or getting stakes ripped out was to line the edges of the inside with large rocks.
Guy lines are often used to stop the outer fly from coming in contact with the inner lining. If that happens any condensation on the inside of the fly transfers to the inner lining and you have lost one of the main benefits of have a double layered tent. A lot of tent I have scene lately don’t have much much ventilation through the fly this is one reason condensation forms on the inside of the fly in the first place. Ventilation keeps the tent dryer and if the tent is dryer you are warmer even if the temperature is lower. Moisture allows higher heat loss and dry air insulates. My warmest tent has baffles between two skins which creates air pockets a still air this is different from most tent I see lately that have free air flow between the layer with a lot having mainly mesh inners so heat wise they are effectively single layered. The disadvantage of that setup is, it is a heavy tent. It has 4 poles that cross making a series of triangle pockets making a very strong tent but as a four person tent weighing 3.4Kg is a bit heavy. It has been through a cyclone where it was the only tent left standing and after a cold night on a ridge in a snow storm it was at least 6 degrees Centigrade warning than friends in their single layered tent. Design is everything!
I like watching videos about camping and outdoors stuff, while staying indoors except for maybe light strolls. We as humans invented houses like 12000 years ago because we decided staying put is better and that we should only have a casual relationship at best with the outside. And I respect that. Plus, camping is illegal. It's a crime. They call it loitering within tent!
But it also depends on the climate of where you're camping.back in the UK, I'd always camped in a double layer, smaller tent. But now in Japan where it's very hot & humid, I've gone for a large, single layer with wide windows.
My first real back packing tent (a Vango) that I bought well over fourty years ago had a sewn in waterproof (bathtub type) groundsheet and was double skinned or inner and outer tent and could be put up either outer or inner first. Yes modern tents are lighter and have either fibre type hoops etc. but to be honest, my old Vango lasted twenty years of hard use and went on to live with the local cub group. 😂 👍
@@danielkutcher5704 my first was an A frame canvas tent from my dads collection. it was a tent we used forever. When i got a dome tent they were just coming out in the early 80s and people used to ask me about it all the time, theyd look at curiously.. they thought it was weird looking lol. I do miss the canvas pup tent tho...we had great trips as kids..
Although I haven’t found an a frame tent and mostly do light camping within the wife and kids…. I don’t trust dome tents. Boy Scout troop still ran decades old a frames. One camparee we had a massive thunderstorm, tornado touched down a dozen miles away. We had one tent where the a frame got bent in, but held, wind was so bad. Other tents were fine. Saw dome tents flying away, never to be seen in the same time Zone. For lols when I can run to the car I’ll use a dome tent. But if it is my life, I’ll take an a frame ever time.
I thought bathtub floor referred to the extra tensioning at the foot end of some tents that make them right-angled? As seen in tents like the REI Quarter Dome, Big Agnes Tiger Wall and Nemo Hornet
what is the supposed benefit of a ground cloth? i mean if its not waterproof, its just gonna get wet. if it is waterproof than its just a place for water to gather. unless you have rocks sharp enough to get through the floor of the tent(in that case, i would just not place a tent there), isn't it better to put whatever you were going to put between the inflatable mattress and the ground on the inside of the tent? also, i know backpackers care about weight but for those of us(festival campers) who intend to at worst arrive to the camp by public transport, double layer tents are the one and only option.
It's mostly to prevent damage to the bottom of the tent. So small objects like twigs or small rocks can't pierce the bottom of the tent. The ground cloth should be slightly smaller than the tent so any water dripping down the side of the tent can't get between the ground cloth and tent. Any water accumulating on the ground will hopefully just go under the ground cloth. To save space and weight, we decided to not being it on our last trip and a small rock has now pierced a tiny hole in the bottom of our tent. It's likely not a big deal but next time it rains, we may have a wet spot. Should have just brought the darn tarp.
Is that "fabric" at 1:10 actually Tyvek? I've never seen a softness like that in a piece of Tyvek before in my life. Indeed, the softest I've seen is the 1443R type, which looks much stiffer than the cloth Dan waves in the wind.
Say I’m cheap/broke. If I bought a tent where any mesh vent window zip up.. is that good enough for four season? I’m not taking Everest Base Camp.. maybe a windy rainy weekend more likely
One time, when i went to festival, i was drunk and had some open beers inside the tent. I knocked them accidently over in my sleep or idk when, cant remember. So this bathtub floor became like a messy beer pool where i was floating on an air mattrass. When i woke up, my phone and clothes were swimming kinda. It was one big mess. That bathtub floor stuff is waterproof for sure lol. The phone survived btw. I dried it for 3 days straight without touching
I'd say the 6th thing many people may want to know before buying a tent is that unless you're a nice weather camper, do not get a tent that requires setting up the inner tent first; it's going to get soaked when you need to pitch it in rainy conditions. Also if you're a first time camper in Europe, consider just getting a Decathlon pop-up tent. It's quite hard to beat them at anything but packing size at this price range.
I think you omitted the second feature/benefit of a bathtub floor -- it's a *thicker* material than the rest of the tent (and, therefore, a better *moisture barrier).*
My first tent - mid-70's was a Eureka Timberline 2man. Basically 5 x 7' A Frame style. Ground cloth ---- "Space brand" blanket - perfect sized, cheap, reasonably puncture proof and thermal reflective. Later added the vestibule. Great combo, however heavy n bulky for packing. Later upgraded to the 4 man model 7 x 9' ( hold a queen air mattress )- added 2nd vestibule. Owned others - single bivvy , hammock incl net n fly, cheapo's, Eureka K2-XT 4 season which is nice in late fall/ early spring. Most important decision is what do you want to use it for. I E: unless your wealthy you don't spend $1,500 on a suit for the occasional wedding or funeral. And if your a lawyer you don't go to court in a suit off the rack at JC Penny. Unless your Sammy Davis sized always go 1 size up - ie: 3 man = 2 average folks plus packs n such. 2man - palatial 1 man or you n dog/GF/Child ( 2 fellas hunting aren't gonna wanna be that close lol )
You should never rely on a cell phone for anything backcountry because in most places worth camping wont have good signal if any at all. good way to get lost and stay that way.
Packing up after a night of heavy rain I detached the inner tent (Hilleburg Soulo) to pack dry but was able to wipe down the condensation on the inner side of the outer tent with a sponge. Another time I just pitched the outer (Hilleburg Stika) with home made 'footprint' so I could fit in a camp bed, again in the morning I had access to wipe down the inside of the tent getting rid of the condensation. If you pack an outer 'fly' away without drying the condensation the inside will get sticky. (not one of mine!)
Great video! I'm sorry but the word Vestibule, it comes from latin "vestibulum" which mean the free space before the main room, like in the Roman house the "vestibulum" was the entrance, but howevere, the video is cool and useful, thank you!
We have a Robens midnight dreamer tent, which has been highly recommended and has very good reviews and it doesn’t have a bathtub floor and it scared me from the beginning. I’m not sure if it would be good to buy another tent, bc I’m afraid I will be flooded in the future.
Actually, my ground cloth is sized to be just larger than the tent, because otherwise you get wear around the edges. It is smaller than the rain fly, which covers the rain collecting issue.
Bad idea guy, that will allow the water shedding off the sides to run under the tent. Even the most water proof tents don’t like sitting in a puddle of water. Happy camping to you
@@alaskanadventure3275 I trench the edge of the fly and try to make sure I have a drain point. I've seen what you are talking about happen to others though.
Dan, that is a good brief intro to selection. I've given thought to this over the years and owned quite a few tents so had a few things you might want to add: 1- the big thing with a netting inner tent is that moisture can pass fairly easily through the netting for the most part and then may run down the inner wall of the trap (outer tent) and drip outside the tent floor; you need to be sure the outer tarp is pulled away from the floor far enough (with those guy lines); for all the inside and for the floor of the tent it is good to have a sponge or small pack towel to wipe it down; the netting helps keep you and your gear from pressing against the outer and getting wet; 2 - a second thing with a netting inner is that on clear nights you can leave the tarp off, see the stars and still be protected from bugs, but keep the tarp handy in case the weather changes :-) 3 - with a single wall, just be prepared to wipe away the moisture; 4 - and this is an interested one I wish I had given some more thought to - because good single wall tents are so light (and other gear can be quite light), you may want to seriously consider a somewhat larger or slightly longer tent, for instance a two person for just you, and that will mean you have more room to minimize rubbing against the tent (the biggest issue is gearing down gear wet) and getting you/stuff wet; 5 - another advantage of #4 is that a bit of extra room is really nice if confined to your tent for a longer period because of bad weather. A number of double walled tents are "free standing" meaning they don't require so much in the way of guy lines, and can be easier to pitch for instance on rock (there are places in the Sierras for instance). Another advantage of a single walled tent over most double tents is pitching in serious rain or snow - with a double wall, some serious wet can get into the inner tent when you pitch it first before you get the tarp on; but there are a few double wall tents that can have the inner attached as you pitch it (Hilleberg for instance). Vestibule - the smaller the tent, the more valuable that space is for pack and boots, etc., that may crowd you if in the tent. Something I didn't think too much about early on and what has become a more important consideration for me over the years is cooking in the rain. A bigger (and taller) vestibule is very handy. However one option is a small extra tarp that can be extended in front of the tent or hung separately for a cooking area. A significant factor in you choice and your priority for a number of these considerations can likely be dependent on where in the country you plan to camp. I've found the east coast very wet, but California much drier. Well, this note became longer than I had intended :-) Regards.
I choose my tents the same way I choose a new car: by carefully examining the color and aesthetics only, in that order.
Lmao
Same here. Last weekend while camping on the Delmarva Peninsula I realized I may have been doing it all wrong. Let's just say I need a winter tent and a zero degree sleeping bag.
But did you look good?
@@narwhal004 yes and my tent was definitely the cutest one out there. I had numerous people stop by with complements. 🤣
I always check if the car has four wheels.
I have to have a free standing car!
Excellent advice. When I was a kid I had to learn these lessons the hard way. It's no fun waking up with your sleeping bag sloshing around in a pool of cold water. Back in the day, we had canvas pup tents with no "bathtub floor," and would dig a small trench around the base of our tent so the water shedding off the tent would be routed away. We also had no double walls in our tents, but canvas would swell in a rain and create a watertight barrier. But if you messed up and touched the tent ceiling from the inside, it would form an instant leak by having the fabric disturbed.
The very first thing about setting up a tent, you missed it, pick and choose the exact micro climate the tent will sit on.. Never pick and absolutely flat and level spot. If it rains you will be doing the midnight backstroke. Never set up right under a tree without checking for dead limbs. Never set up out in the wide open if you have a choice,, something, anything to break the wind. The ideal tent site is on the tiniest little nearly flat mound. It only has to be a couple of inches higher than the surrounding AND it must have drainage away from the tent. Near bushes to break the wind, not under huge trees that can direct lightning. Pick the spot perfectly first.
Don't put your tent AGAINST the bushes tho. They are FULL of ticks! Packing the tent the next day will be time-consuming trying to pick the little boogers off so you don't take them with you!
Thank you
Thanks
Also be aware of the local topography. Last thing you want is for your specific tent location to get down below freezing on what’s supposed to be a warm night because you set camp in a cold sink
Hey Dan, great video. I agreed with nearly everything you said except the guy line tightening statement. When one is in windy conditions, the wind acts on the fly like a big sail and given the surface area it can whip the fly with a lot of force. Tents with looser guy lines enable the tent to be whipped by the wind and the shock of the guy stopping that movement when the slack in the guy is used up puts a lot of strain on the reinforcement which can begin to tear it loose. Guy lines should be taut, not like the cables of a suspension bridge, for sure, but enough to prevent the fly/guy combo from being yanked. An modification to the guy system that one could make is to add a small elastic bugee about three or four inches long between a pair of loops tied in the guy line so that when staked, the bungee is under tension but there is a bit of slack in the guy line. When pushed by the wind, the elastic can "snub" the force before the guy reaches the end of it's slack and lessen the snapping of the fly. I learned about this from some mountaneers while doing some winter hiking in the Cascades.
THANK YOU SO MUCH! I have a question though...Why not just put some shock cord at the end of the guy line? Would that work too? This bungee between two loops in the line...I drew that out as i read it so I could see what you were talking about...essentially it would act to slow down the 'stop' once the line is taught...pretty much like how a static vs dynamic rope will greatly decrease the shock to the person on the rope when they fall. So the tent is like the person and the bungee is exactly like a bungee, except in this loop system, there is eventually a tight 'stopping' point. The concept makes sense to me. I'm just curious if you could just use a piece of shock cord at one end instead of having to tie the loops and the bungee between the loops. It has been a couple of years since I took physics...I really think if I was in physics right now, that I could figure this problem out. But yes...the 'bungee effect' in general reduces strain on the tent because Force is proportional to accelleration, and accelleration is just velocity squared, so basically if you slow that snap down, you decrease the force because F=ma.
@andreameigs1261 I think that if you put a piece of bungee between the stake and tie down, which is essentially what you are talking about, it might act like a spring, constantly stretching and shortening. With the system as I have described you would have the guy rope acting as a "limiter" when the slack is used up. And bungee also has fatigue limits, as long as it is kept below a certain threshold of stretch. So the guy rope snubs the bungee to below that threshold, and the bungee snubs the guy line from accelerating with too much force.
Vestibules are actually French for the place where massive spiders build webs in at night trapping you inside your tent
This is a fact. Have vestibule, will pee in a bottle 😁
Tell me where you go camping so I'll never visit that area
😂👍
In Germany we call it Apside, which translates to Apsis in English. Wondering if there is a difference?
@@marsa74 looks like apse or apsis don't have anything to do with entrances in architecture, vestibule is the entrance area.
Here in Belgium everyone gets introduced to tents because of camp sites at music festivals. Basically everyone gets the same brand from a European sports and camping store (Decathlon) which are known to have great quality, cheap, double walled pop-up tents that are insanely easy to set up. They go for around €60 and I've been using mine for about 6-8 years now.
So heavy though xD
I just ordered a backpack from them. Looking forward to testing it out! Only just heard of them couple weeks ago. I appreciate the price of the pack as they are pretty expensive in other brands and the folks reviewing them raves about how comfortable they are…
@@pacoin51 Their popup-tents are a bit over 3kg, which is really not bad for a cheap freestanding tent. They also have
@@AllThingsConsidered333 Their backpacks are awesome. I've had quite a few backpacks but theirs is by far the most comfortable that does not cost hundreds of euros. I loaded it up with 30kg recently and could walk over 5km with it on my back without any discomfort other than my legs buckling under the weight😅 Would appreciate dedicated popup-tent-attachment-points, though.
Vestibules are also great for keeping the rain out of the inner tent when entering/exiting. I've got one tent with no vestibule to speak of and when you open the zips to get in/out, rain can come in through both inner and outer doors. With a decent vestibule, you've got an area that shelters the inner door and you can have both open without rain pouring through and filling up the "bathtub".
That's the most important reason for me. I never put any gear out in the vestibule, especially my boots. It's always a little drier and warmer inside the tent where I sleep, and I don't like the idea of bugs and critters getting into my stuff...
@@ccrider77 My single person Macpac, the vestibule is literally only just large enough to create a "rain shadow" over the tent inner. There's not enough room inside the vestibule to put a pair of hiking boots - so they and the pack are sharing the tent, no matter what.
These days, though, I hammock camp under a sizeable tarp, in which case anything that's not actually the hammock itself is "vestibule". There's even "vestibule" *under* the hammock!🤣
So I have to do things like stick my shoes inside plastic bags to keep the bugs out.
One benefit to buying the footprint meant for your tent is the fast fly mode (setting up the rainfly without the body of the tent). Super helpful if you get caught in the rain, or it is raining when you get to your campsite.
Super true thank you for pointing that out. If you follow Zachary Fowler though, you'll see that in those situations that hammocks are the way
@@atomicpsych0 not if what you have is a tent.
Though TBF, not all tents come with a fast-fly option - lots of tents are inner-first -pitch only.
Agree with this, but some tent makes and models, their groundsheets only come with cordage, no eyelets/clips for the poles/fly.... These require a bit of modding....
@@atomicpsych0 Hammocks are just a gimmick, nothing more.
@@Chris66able there's a pretty large amount of people who ultralight backpack and camp in hammocks that would say otherwise
Another tip for the better tents is watch Luke On "The Outdoor Gear Review" Saved a lot of frustration with his reviews of set ups, then weather testing of many tents. All kinds of priced tents And he is not sponsored by any tent maker.
I used to top off our tent with a tarp(blue) to protect from heavy rain and cold mornings!
I feel so fortunate I can put up my tent anywhere I want. Except on somebodys property, in town and so forth. :)
I wish I new that one person tents are very small and just mean as a shelter and that a two person tent is really a one person tent with a decent amount of space to chill when is raining or just to read when I can sleep.
My first tent was a Lashan one and I only used once because I hated how small it is.
Maybe I will give a second chance in the snow and see if I like it.
Agreed. Take the number,multiply by 1.5 and round up! 2 man = 3. 3man = 4.5, round upto 5.
Thanks God! I am the first one here today! I am a solo mountain hiker from the Lower Chitral District of Pakistan!
Good info. I started out in the old canvas wall tent when I was a kid and progressed to a 2 man backpack tent for places like Philmont Scout ranch in NM and hiking Mt Washington in NH. Got old and the wife insisted on a camper. Now I am back to a canvas Kodiak Canvas truck tent. Almost full circle. I still have the old Eddie Bauer nylon (when they actually sold outdoor stuff) but it's 50 years old and would probably disintegrate in a breeze if I ever set it up. Thanks for the video,
Stay safe and God bless.
Many tents come with covers that form vestibule, which creates a double layer to keep moisture off the tent and allow circulation through/over your tent to keep it cooler in warm weather. Never seen a tent with a pad cover...so we always used big tarps to lay below the tent, but Tyvek is a good suggestion.
I usually bring a small roll of garbage bag when I was hiking or camping, it can be used as a cheap ground cloth or waterproof bag for my clothing.
My 1st tent back in the 80's was a winter tent made here in Quebec Canada. It won a design award. You could put it up in the middle of a Canadian blizzardin two minutes, approx. Built-in innerwall, two poles going crossways. Simply pull out one end of the tent from the bag and stake two ties pull out more, slip in poles crossways, pull and stake opposite end, whole tent went up instantly. And it came 'avec un vestibule'. It was my 1st ever camping trip, from Canada through the USA to the bottom of Mexico. 1st stop was the 'Rainbow Gathering' which my friends neglected to tell me was the largest nudist gathering in the USA. I left them and continued on by myself. 2nd stop was first time going into a totally different situation in Mexico by myself but all went well, nice people. It was nice back then, wouldn't try that today. My new winter tent has a skirt to pile snow around.
what an exciting and interesting story you share with us. i can only imagine everyone else had the same experience.
I'm from Quebec too! What is the name of this compagnie?
Can’t tell you how much you’ve helped me starting out. I would of waisted a ton of money on the wrong items. I now I have list of items needed and the order I’m buying them. I can see how easy it is to go down the gear rabbit hole, but damn it’s fun. Thanks again and I enjoy watching you on The Office Jim!
When l camp (bushcamp or car camp), l bring two tarps with me... one for a ground sheet and one for a waterproof fly to fit over the tent. Depending on the size of the tent, these can be purchased at a Dollar Store, or big box store...they are very inexpensive.
Using these two tarps gives you a waterproof undersheet for the tent, and a second "wall" to collect condensation and make the tent rain proof. Simple, lightweight, cheap and effective. No mystery.
We always did the same.
Now it's just me. Last time I camped was out at the farm where I have my horses. I had the tarp under my tent, but no way to put one above it.
@@twhis9843 :- 👍🇨🇦
This September I backpacked for a couple weeks on the SHT. This was my first backpacking trip since 1983 and I was really curious to see how it went with my gear. I started with a Zpacks Solplex. It's a good tent and it did amazing in a super bad (I mean SUPER bad!) thunderstorm that came in 3 waves with torrential rain and high winds. The tent did great. Really impressive tent performance (damn scary night though!). But the condensation in the tent was pretty bad and that ended up being a deal-breaker for me. I switched over to my BA Fly Creek UL2 and I was much happier in a double-wall tent. My daughter used a Zpacks Altaplex (single wall) and was happy with it.
And most of the single wall tents also have double reflective material along with vents keep that type of condensation from Gathering at least a good tent will have that so that kind of defeats your purpose of the whole having a double walled tent not to mention having a double wall 10 does not prevent you from having condensation dripped down on you I've used both types that you refer to and still had condensation drip on me not to mention with a double wall tent if you have a good wind storm you run the risk of having that outer layer ripped right off leaving you exposed to the elements
Nice Review. I like to add that my layer down to the tent have plástic (protects better not only the floor tent and better insulation) to the lenght of the vestibule too. Because there we enter normally crouching and you dont want to wet your knees in wet grass. Just my xp. Other advice Is look for the Gap between roof and floor. Good tents have minimal gaps or none (lateral winds comes by the gaps)
I use two person footprint on my single tent, I setup my tent in once side and use the rest of footprints for my gear and seating it under vestibule so no worry about rain and keep my gear clean.
I’m loving all your content. It’s clear, informative and you can tell you enjoy it and aren’t just trying to make a quick buck. Your videos are some of the few things I can watch all the way through and remain interested.
If I am car camping, I take a bigger tent and a smaller tent, and set them up with the smaller tent inside the bigger tent. Works great for airflow if you have a lot of rain because you can keep the windows of the inner tent open and not use the rainfly. Also gives you space for gear or wet boots. Would maybe work for backpacking if you have two people who can each carry a tent.
Thank you for this video im about to buy my first tent never owned any camping stuff before and your cahnnel Helps alot. I hope for more winter tent / Gear videos. Love your Chanel dan. Best regarda from Dalarna in Sweden
Sweden?! Awesome!!
This video was very informative for a beginner like me. I've been wanting to buy a decent tent for some weekend trips but most importantly for my upcoming multi month/year overlanding trip and this is really helping me make the decision on the right tent for me.
I have a waterproof single wall tent. It is an old Early Winters goretex tent. Two person tent that weighs 4 lbs. It was a breakthrough in its day. It is 30 years old and still works though it only saw heavy use for the first few years and then sporadically after that.
What I wish I had known is that 2 walled tents take longer to set up and usually you have to set up the inside wall first (which isn't water resistant). Seems obvious, but it's not obvious how much more bothersome they are during the rain - by the time your tent is set up your bathtub floor can really earn it's name
Which is why having a camping tarp to put up first so you can have a dry area to work in. Doesn't have to be a fantastic tarp, just something quick to put up so you can put up your tent.
@@chalion8399 or just sleep under the tarp!
@@riley1636 hilleberg and fjallraven are both vastly overpriced, and hilleberg are usually over weight. There are many other decent makes which are outer first pitch, who are far cheaper and in some cases better. Hilleberg are a rip off.
@@Chris66able i got my Vango scafell 200 for 100 euros in a sale. Double wall, outside pitches first, or can be pitched together like you said with both connected. The inside is not "mesh", but it's easy to setup (under 5 mins), big enough (i am 6.2 and fit easily). And it's good quality.
You can get a tent where you can pitch the rainfly first, then set up the tent underneath. Not difficult.
Talking of bath tub floor, it actually became a bath tub with water inside when I was camping at Malam Jabba. Storm came that flew away the top tarp and then water keep accumulating inside till it was filled!
sure it did
Great advice and information Dan well worth a view.
Ive got the lot , Tyvek footprints , Golite single skin teepee with tub floor (10 years old still great)
Vaude Terra Trio up in one 2 skin tough as old boots.
And a 6' teepee with built in tub and 6 vents to lower condensation.
I pick which depending on the season.
PS for those who dont know stick your Tyvek in the washing machine it comes out just like Dans as its normally stiff as sheet cardboard
I usually have one of my cheap two wall tents set up in the woods between the house and the road. I keep a sleeping bag, blankets, pillow and pad inside. I never know when I'm going to sleep in it with my dog. I have an old piece of a coal stove to build a fire in and cook over.
My family had a big Terka tent, canvas with a steel frame on the inside. Yes it's heavy but for staying in one place for a week or more it's better then our big dome tent. Both tents work well but we use the one that suits our camping trip, dome if we are moving about every couple of days, Terka for stopping in one local for awhile. The Terka has no floor but does have sleeping compartments that hang from the internal frame, flyscreen top and sides with a large heavy rubber tub where you put your matress and sleeping gear. The dome has a bathtub floor and has been tested by rain and that one time our camp site got flooded, we stayed dry but had to dry the tent out when we got home.
I love videos at Camp Becker! As a former cheesehead its like visiting home. I often ponder how many backpackers you could actually hostel in your "camp" at once time. That would be a funny sight; walking out on your deck in the morning to a sea of tents. Great information.
😂👍
I was that guy who figured that an army tent was the best pick ever. I had one from what must have been the Korean War era which always smelled of some chemicals and mildew and only ever magnified every issue like cold, heat and rain, so it was colder than hell when it was cold, hotter than hell when warm and I swear it leeched moisture from the air to make everything damp and clammy. I endured this crap for years figuring I was still better off than anyone else.
Then I bought a modern tent, never looked back for a second.
Good stuff! Been thinking about picking up a single wall tent to replace my double wall, but I am concerned about the condensation thing. But they are just so LIGHT!
Zpacks tents are great for dispersing condensation. I absolutely love mine (altaplex)
@@KB-ce7gf Thank you! I really appreciate your thoughts. My only other concern is how well the dyneema will hold up to my two huskies. They are well behaved, but even well behaved dogs have claws...
I'm seriously considering the triplex because of the room (and only 3 oz heavier than the duplex!) so I can go with 1 other person and my 2 dogs.
@DJ Ness I hadn't considered the thought that it's easier to wipe of condensation of a single wall, but you're right. I've experienced bad condensation in a double wall as well, but seemed like it was easier to keep my gear away from the condensation since it's on the 'second wall'. But are right that it's always there. May actually be easier to manage in a single wall like you said.
You're talking me into the Zpacks, so keep it coming! 🤣
My thoughts on the huskies is to cut a piece of tyvek the size of the floor and place it down inside before you allow them in. Tip: run the tyvek in a washing machine a couple times to soften it up so it’s not all stiff like when it’s new.
@@KB-ce7gf good call on the tyvek. Will be minimal weight as well. Thanks!
I really appreciate how much you break everything down. I've been loving how informative (and funny) your videos are, keep it up!
If you have your tent stakes like this ⛺ / facing inwards they will be more sturdy in wind and just overall
I grabbed a tent on clearance cause it was cheap. We set it up for the first time a few days ago and was pleasantly surprised. Of course i didn't have anything I should have but we made it work. Had a good night's sleep in the yard. We really need sleeping pads etc. We slept on top of cheap sleeping bags with regular blankets. 😅
Have a hybrid tent, Sierra Designs Flashlight 2 tent from 2016. Cuts weight but let's it breath. 3 season only.
Loved your video. One tip about Bath tub floors, some tents the floors run 1/2 up the side and some closer to the ground. The floors that run up higher on the tent will block the air flow. This is good for keeping you dryer and warmer in bad weather, but in makes the tent hotter in warm weather. If you are below the Bath tub wall, you will not get any cool breezes during the night when you have the top pulled back. The height of the Tent is important. Low tents you have to laydown to change clothes in tent. Taller ones you can be in a sitting or kneeling positions to change clothes in the tent.
Think about your needs when buying a tent. Campground camping is different from back backing.
I did motorcycle camping at campgrounds. I needed a tent to compact into a small size, but hated laying down to change clothes. They make so many different kinds of tents am sure you will find one you like.
You can also use a tarp as well under your tent
I'm a noob. I usually use a spear scrap pice of tarp for the sub floor. Multi purpose. 5:55 you chat about moister. Does the double wall work for this if the first wall is not mesh ?
Maybe that's why a single wall tent has LESS condensation than double wall due to being cooler.... and probably more drafty. Single wall type mid is the way to go
I like your uploads. Useful for helping new campers who are looing for information about camping. Clear communication as well. 👍
My first tent cost about 50 euros/dollars. I used it everywhere, North Europe, the Alps, Australia and New Zealand, Brazil, Andes, Sierra Nevada, ... It didn't have any bells and whistles, and it wasn't super light, but it worked. You can start basic.
Bathtub floors - not all modern tents have them, its especially common on tents that are made to take stoves, as they often have cutouts on the floor to place the stove in. There are still tents made that have no floor at all, often for winter use.
Double wall tent - some tents have an inner layer, or an inner insert. for example, an 8 man bell tent will have an outer layer of heavy green canvas, and then inside a "set of tie points, where an inner layer of canvas wool, or cloth, creates an air gap between the outer and inner walll. This air gap acts as insulation to prevent heat from radiating directly out. Some of these set ups even include then an outer "shell" to protect the outer canvas help shed ice, and in some cases help camouflage the tent.
Double walled tents TEND to be better for winter, because of the insulation factor of that air gap.
I've got 5 tents and each works well for various scenarios. I'd add that in good weather a cheapie will do, but in inclement weather/cold a small heavy double wall tent with triangulated guy lines, solid ground perimeter staking, factory footprint with staking loops, and intenternal guys for high wind situations has kept me alive in major snowstorms and 70mph winds for two days. It's been used on Everest campaigns and is considered bulletproof.
what tent is it??
yeah i dont believe the bulletproof part
@@reillyclinker79 Mountain Hardwear Skyview 2.
@@LednacekZ 😄
How about considering how many people will be in the tent and how tall they will be, plus factoring in the space needed for equipment and bags when choosing a tent? I distinctly remember being on a Girl Guide camping trip and learning that lesson.
Tip #1 omg! I have always purchased cheap tents until recently. It came with an "extra" piece that I had no clue as to the use because I've always had to purchase my own tarps (a.k.a. footprint!) for this use. Thank you.
I’m new to the hiking/camping thing. I’ve been using a Kelty late start single person tent. I’ve used it three times now and so far so good. Came with a footprint. Had a small vestibule. It was decently priced also.
This is a very useful video for us newbies. Excellent!!
My tent was free I found it in the garbage and very minimal cost my set up for the most part. Also found in the bin a car windshield sun screen for underneath the tent along with foam mats. Best things in life are free!!!
Please say if the set up tent will continue holding its shape even with a full night's wet snow storm. Lots of snow comes down fluffy and light, but also lots of snow tends to get wet and get a lot heavier--a lot heavier. My guess is if a full size man can lay fully extended on top of the installed tent and no real deforming, then it probably would stand a wet snow storm before you can get out and brush the wet snow in the morning..
Guy lines are also useful for preventing condensation, if the walls are touching each other it will condensate in the internal one, so you need to separate them
Love your content, dude! I'm looking to get into backpacking and hiking myself, and all of your "BLANK I'd wish I'd bought/hadn't bought" / "things I wish I knew" videos are super informative! I only wish we had the same range of gear in Australia as you folks have in the USA..!
We pretty much do, just gotta search a bit harder/know what and where to look
I haven't camped since I was a kid. I have no idea what I'm doing. 🙃 all I have is a sleeping bag. Your videos are so helpful.
I love how you gently spread the footprint down on a nice, calm day with no wind whatsoever. That never, ever happens to me...
I got lucky when entering this maze of outdoor gear. Dan Becker said buy the big agnes tiger wall ul2, the nemo tensor 3" pad, and a host of other stuff. I did. Little did I know that these items wind up on the 2018 buy list only to be put on the 2019 what didn't work out list. Mine held up and I don't regret too many expensive purchases. Also got the UGC bandit quilt. Again, just luck, but Dan gets credit! Doesn't take too long to figure out the churn and burn of the youtube channel and products.
Shouldn't you have added that another benefit of double wall is if inside wall is not just mesh then you have two layers of water protection including increasing warmth and if you touch inside of tent it won't as easily start a drip like if you touch outside.
Hi Dan you always bring great and interesting content even if it does not fit our specific needs. Thanks for all of you efforts.
The first tent my husband and I bought was a 2-person one from Walmart. I don't remember much about it, but it was sent to the thrift store about 2 years later. We then used a hand-me-down from my folks before buying our own (a Eureka Chic-Choc 5, perfect for car camping with kids). It hit my major requirements: 5-person tent for a 4-person family, full fly, and a vestibule. Bonus: there was a manufacturer's defect (that we easily fixed), so we got it for 75% off at Sail. It works great for late spring, summer, and early fall, and it's fairly easy to set up and take down.
One might want to consider that with few exceptions tents are not waterproof they are just highly water resistant (hopefully). You can compare the water resistance levels of tents by Hydrostatic Head (HH), which measures how water-resistant a fabric is. The measurement is in millimeters and relates to how high a column of water standing on the fabric would need to be before the water would penetrate the fabric. Higher is better, but as with most things there are trade offs like weight, breathability, possibly price. Most reputable manufacturers will state the HH. You need to consider the environments your shelter will be used. You may be able to increase (or refresh) your tent's water resistance by using spray on repellents and seam sealants, but do follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
right, hubba is trash. 1200 hh. who even buys it.
I made a new rain fly by soaking cotton sheet in a mixture of caulk and acetone. The same technique Nighthawkinlight just made a video about
Hi, guy from the UK here. One thing you didn't mention was inner Vs outer first pitching, something that's been a problem for me. Over here most tents are pitched outer first so the inner stays dry because we assume it's probably going to rain, but I'm not sure I've ever seen an American tent that pitches like that, all of them are inner first. I get why that is, you probably have more predictable weather, and inner first ones are generally freestanding so are easier to set up on harder ground (I know there are other reasons, but I won't bother listing them). What I don't get is what do you do when it does rain? Just accept that it's going to get wet? Or can you put it up quick enough that it doesn't matter and you can wipe up the water with a towel?
I'm asking because I'm thinking about getting the Sierra designs meteor 3000, one that pitches inner first, because US tents do have some advantages over European ones (generally two side doors with big vestibules, surprisingly rare over here but a great feature), but I'm not sure how comfortable it will be in our climate
Eureka/Johnson Outdoors !
We bought our tent from Macpac in New Zealand and you pitch the inner and fly simultaneously. I think it’s called a multi-pitch system. They generally have two doors and vestibules also. May be worth checking out as they have been branching out to overseas markets.
Practice setting up whichever tent you have until u can set it up rather quickly. Plus Youd be surprised at how much water deflection the mesh does. Then yes u dry up any extra. Even most inner first tents can actually be set up outer first with practice. If the tent poles don’t slide through inner fabric then u can most likely set up outer first. As long as the rain fly has pole end mounts versus clipping to the inner pole end mounts. Hope this helps!
@@exposureseries3747 Teaching the Boy Scouts leadership skills: Setting up their tents blindfolded, with their patrol leader giving instructions !
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We use a footprint and double wall tent. Comfort beats ultra light.
I've used a Coleman 2-man backpacking tent for 20yrs of chasing scouters around ! Double wall, no footprint, big vestibules. Its still operable but the fabric is thin and it smelled funny last time it was up. I keep it water-proofed and dried out after every excursion.
Blue tarp is the answer to life, universe and everything.
Got the nemo kunai 2p as my first tent! Going camping in the next few weeks
People STILL don't understand the single / double wall concept. The moisture from your breath and sweat will condense on ANY wall once that wall reaches the dew point for the air inside. Doesn't matter if it is "breathable" or not. Same for outerwear with the costly and utterly useless "Gore-Tex" and similar fabrics. Warm, moist air hits a cool surface, condensation happens. One wall or two, the key is VENTILATION. Don't let the moisture inside get to the dew point level for the temperature outside, you'll be fine. For outerwear, that usually mean pit vents and a loose waist. For a tent, vents are the key, or, if you are going double wall, big mesh panels as shown in this video. But an "inner" tent with great big mesh panels ON TOP is not part of a double wall tent, it is simply an anti-bug tent.
The best double-wall tent concept was first (AFAIK) figured out and marketed ~50 years ago by Stephenson's "Warmlite." These tents have two IMPERMEBLE walls, separated by a narrow air gap when properly pitched, and WELL VENTILATED. The air gap allows the inner tent to actually be a bit warmer at the wall than the outdoor air, the vents keep the humidity to a moderate level, and because the fabric is impermeable, and condensation doesn't saturate the fabric -- it sponges off and evaporates readily.
Amazing that tent designers have failed to understand physics for at least 5 decades, even after Jack Stephenson gave us a Master Class on it.
Back in 1989 when my husband and I came up the Alaska highway from Iowa to Anchorage, we camped every night. One night in Canada the wind was so strong that the only way to keep our tent from flying away or getting stakes ripped out was to line the edges of the inside with large rocks.
@Cottonheaded Ninnymuggins it was! It was awesome and I'd do it again any time!
Guy lines are often used to stop the outer fly from coming in contact with the inner lining. If that happens any condensation on the inside of the fly transfers to the inner lining and you have lost one of the main benefits of have a double layered tent. A lot of tent I have scene lately don’t have much much ventilation through the fly this is one reason condensation forms on the inside of the fly in the first place. Ventilation keeps the tent dryer and if the tent is dryer you are warmer even if the temperature is lower. Moisture allows higher heat loss and dry air insulates. My warmest tent has baffles between two skins which creates air pockets a still air this is different from most tent I see lately that have free air flow between the layer with a lot having mainly mesh inners so heat wise they are effectively single layered. The disadvantage of that setup is, it is a heavy tent. It has 4 poles that cross making a series of triangle pockets making a very strong tent but as a four person tent weighing 3.4Kg is a bit heavy. It has been through a cyclone where it was the only tent left standing and after a cold night on a ridge in a snow storm it was at least 6 degrees Centigrade warning than friends in their single layered tent. Design is everything!
Which tent?
I like watching videos about camping and outdoors stuff, while staying indoors except for maybe light strolls.
We as humans invented houses like 12000 years ago because we decided staying put is better and that we should only have a casual relationship at best with the outside. And I respect that.
Plus, camping is illegal. It's a crime. They call it loitering within tent!
But it also depends on the climate of where you're camping.back in the UK, I'd always camped in a double layer, smaller tent. But now in Japan where it's very hot & humid, I've gone for a large, single layer with wide windows.
Nice video! Now I go tent shopping!
My first real back packing tent (a Vango) that I bought well over fourty years ago had a sewn in waterproof (bathtub type) groundsheet and was double skinned or inner and outer tent and could be put up either outer or inner first. Yes modern tents are lighter and have either fibre type hoops etc. but to be honest, my old Vango lasted twenty years of hard use and went on to live with the local cub group. 😂 👍
tents have come a longggg way. When i first started camping, they were so new, campers said dome shaped tents were just a fad lol
My first three tents were A-frame tents (1960s). I still have a keepsake Cannondale A-frame tent from the mid-1980s.
@@danielkutcher5704 my first was an A frame canvas tent from my dads collection. it was a tent we used forever. When i got a dome tent they were just coming out in the early 80s and people used to ask me about it all the time, theyd look at curiously.. they thought it was weird looking lol. I do miss the canvas pup tent tho...we had great trips as kids..
Although I haven’t found an a frame tent and mostly do light camping within the wife and kids….
I don’t trust dome tents. Boy Scout troop still ran decades old a frames. One camparee we had a massive thunderstorm, tornado touched down a dozen miles away.
We had one tent where the a frame got bent in, but held, wind was so bad. Other tents were fine. Saw dome tents flying away, never to be seen in the same time
Zone.
For lols when I can run to the car I’ll use a dome tent. But if it is my life, I’ll take an a frame ever time.
So is a raincover considered the "second" wall? Or do they come double-walled like some hammocks?
I thought bathtub floor referred to the extra tensioning at the foot end of some tents that make them right-angled? As seen in tents like the REI Quarter Dome, Big Agnes Tiger Wall and Nemo Hornet
what is the supposed benefit of a ground cloth? i mean if its not waterproof, its just gonna get wet. if it is waterproof than its just a place for water to gather. unless you have rocks sharp enough to get through the floor of the tent(in that case, i would just not place a tent there), isn't it better to put whatever you were going to put between the inflatable mattress and the ground on the inside of the tent? also, i know backpackers care about weight but for those of us(festival campers) who intend to at worst arrive to the camp by public transport, double layer tents are the one and only option.
It's mostly to prevent damage to the bottom of the tent. So small objects like twigs or small rocks can't pierce the bottom of the tent. The ground cloth should be slightly smaller than the tent so any water dripping down the side of the tent can't get between the ground cloth and tent. Any water accumulating on the ground will hopefully just go under the ground cloth.
To save space and weight, we decided to not being it on our last trip and a small rock has now pierced a tiny hole in the bottom of our tent. It's likely not a big deal but next time it rains, we may have a wet spot. Should have just brought the darn tarp.
Is that "fabric" at 1:10 actually Tyvek? I've never seen a softness like that in a piece of Tyvek before in my life. Indeed, the softest I've seen is the 1443R type, which looks much stiffer than the cloth Dan waves in the wind.
Say I’m cheap/broke. If I bought a tent where any mesh vent window zip up.. is that good enough for four season? I’m not taking Everest Base Camp.. maybe a windy rainy weekend more likely
One time, when i went to festival, i was drunk and had some open beers inside the tent. I knocked them accidently over in my sleep or idk when, cant remember. So this bathtub floor became like a messy beer pool where i was floating on an air mattrass. When i woke up, my phone and clothes were swimming kinda. It was one big mess. That bathtub floor stuff is waterproof for sure lol. The phone survived btw. I dried it for 3 days straight without touching
I'd say the 6th thing many people may want to know before buying a tent is that unless you're a nice weather camper, do not get a tent that requires setting up the inner tent first; it's going to get soaked when you need to pitch it in rainy conditions.
Also if you're a first time camper in Europe, consider just getting a Decathlon pop-up tent. It's quite hard to beat them at anything but packing size at this price range.
Thank you for making such good quality videos for beginners like me. Subscribed!!
Love that word, "vestibule".
Vestibule come from Latin: the language of ancient roman. Vestibulum indicates the entrance space of an house or a temple.
So when are you going camping with Kyle Hates Hiking?
I think you omitted the second feature/benefit of a bathtub floor -- it's a *thicker* material than the rest of the tent (and, therefore, a better *moisture barrier).*
My first tent - mid-70's was a Eureka Timberline 2man. Basically 5 x 7' A Frame style.
Ground cloth ---- "Space brand" blanket - perfect sized, cheap, reasonably puncture proof and thermal reflective.
Later added the vestibule.
Great combo, however heavy n bulky for packing.
Later upgraded to the 4 man model 7 x 9' ( hold a queen air mattress )- added 2nd vestibule.
Owned others - single bivvy , hammock incl net n fly, cheapo's, Eureka K2-XT 4 season which is nice in late fall/ early spring.
Most important decision is what do you want to use it for.
I E: unless your wealthy you don't spend $1,500 on a suit for the occasional wedding or funeral. And if your a lawyer you don't go to court in a suit off the rack at JC Penny.
Unless your Sammy Davis sized always go 1 size up - ie: 3 man = 2 average folks plus packs n such. 2man - palatial 1 man or you n dog/GF/Child ( 2 fellas hunting aren't gonna wanna be that close lol )
You should never rely on a cell phone for anything backcountry because in most places worth camping wont have good signal if any at all. good way to get lost and stay that way.
Packing up after a night of heavy rain I detached the inner tent (Hilleburg Soulo) to pack dry but was able to wipe down the condensation on the inner side of the outer tent with a sponge. Another time I just pitched the outer (Hilleburg Stika) with home made 'footprint' so I could fit in a camp bed, again in the morning I had access to wipe down the inside of the tent getting rid of the condensation. If you pack an outer 'fly' away without drying the condensation the inside will get sticky. (not one of mine!)
Do you think the Katadyn be free black tactical Edition is better than the regular be free ? What would you choose ? And why
Great video! I'm sorry but the word Vestibule, it comes from latin "vestibulum" which mean the free space before the main room, like in the Roman house the "vestibulum" was the entrance, but howevere, the video is cool and useful, thank you!
Excellent content! This is the 3rd video of yours I have watched. Keep up the great work and thank you!
Have you done a review on the MSR hubba hubba? Or know anything about it? REI is having a great sale on it right now.
Dear diary, today Neegan taught me about tents. I feel blessed
We have a Robens midnight dreamer tent, which has been highly recommended and has very good reviews and it doesn’t have a bathtub floor and it scared me from the beginning. I’m not sure if it would be good to buy another tent, bc I’m afraid I will be flooded in the future.
Same with freestanding. 👍 Good video
Actually, my ground cloth is sized to be just larger than the tent, because otherwise you get wear around the edges. It is smaller than the rain fly, which covers the rain collecting issue.
Bad idea guy, that will allow the water shedding off the sides to run under the tent. Even the most water proof tents don’t like sitting in a puddle of water. Happy camping to you
@@alaskanadventure3275 I trench the edge of the fly and try to make sure I have a drain point. I've seen what you are talking about happen to others though.
Dan, that is a good brief intro to selection. I've given thought to this over the years and owned quite a few tents so had a few things you might want to add: 1- the big thing with a netting inner tent is that moisture can pass fairly easily through the netting for the most part and then may run down the inner wall of the trap (outer tent) and drip outside the tent floor; you need to be sure the outer tarp is pulled away from the floor far enough (with those guy lines); for all the inside and for the floor of the tent it is good to have a sponge or small pack towel to wipe it down; the netting helps keep you and your gear from pressing against the outer and getting wet; 2 - a second thing with a netting inner is that on clear nights you can leave the tarp off, see the stars and still be protected from bugs, but keep the tarp handy in case the weather changes :-) 3 - with a single wall, just be prepared to wipe away the moisture; 4 - and this is an interested one I wish I had given some more thought to - because good single wall tents are so light (and other gear can be quite light), you may want to seriously consider a somewhat larger or slightly longer tent, for instance a two person for just you, and that will mean you have more room to minimize rubbing against the tent (the biggest issue is gearing down gear wet) and getting you/stuff wet; 5 - another advantage of #4 is that a bit of extra room is really nice if confined to your tent for a longer period because of bad weather. A number of double walled tents are "free standing" meaning they don't require so much in the way of guy lines, and can be easier to pitch for instance on rock (there are places in the Sierras for instance). Another advantage of a single walled tent over most double tents is pitching in serious rain or snow - with a double wall, some serious wet can get into the inner tent when you pitch it first before you get the tarp on; but there are a few double wall tents that can have the inner attached as you pitch it (Hilleberg for instance). Vestibule - the smaller the tent, the more valuable that space is for pack and boots, etc., that may crowd you if in the tent. Something I didn't think too much about early on and what has become a more important consideration for me over the years is cooking in the rain. A bigger (and taller) vestibule is very handy. However one option is a small extra tarp that can be extended in front of the tent or hung separately for a cooking area. A significant factor in you choice and your priority for a number of these considerations can likely be dependent on where in the country you plan to camp. I've found the east coast very wet, but California much drier. Well, this note became longer than I had intended :-) Regards.
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