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Ever Wonder How Good Cars Wind Up At Auctions? The Tale of This Ferrari FF Is Just That...
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- Опубликовано: 31 янв 2022
- In today's video, I talk about buying cars, what happens when inspections go wrong and what dealers do with cars they can't sell - and why it might affect you. This involves a dive into the murky and strange world of BCA, some amateur sleuthing on my part and a very pretty (but rather broken) Ferrari. LA61 DYC is the number plate. Previously on F4 FNE
#Ferrari #FF #Auction
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Lessons I learnt.
1) never buy an ex fleet ferrari
2) I can't even afford a ferrari key fob
3) don't worry and continue with my life
A Ferrari at a trade auction is a red flag, especially a recent model. I am sure a vast majority of the people bidding will be fully aware the car would require plenty of time and money spending on it to bring it up to standard and to be honest if they are buying it thinking they are getting a bargain, they are in the wrong business.
Not necessarily. Most of the cars at Top Car sales have a history that is known due to dealer and vendor chat. Even Pistonheads threads!
Loved this video J, top man for doing the honourable thing and making this video. These sorts of videos you make are THE BEST!
Crap nothing to see here. Any dealer knows what grade 5 is.
The video isnt made for dealers...
Having been in the car industry in the US, I can tell you this is exactly what would have happened here. An auction is essentially the way to wipe your hands of a problem car, and pass it on to another dealer, guilt free, while still knowing someone else will be getting screwed. Great video James and nice work tracking it all down.
I've always been under the impression that press cars lead a very hard life as they are flogged by one motoring journalist after another, and the condition of this Ferrari FF simply confirms my suspicions.
ABSOLUTELY...all you have to do is read the road tests and look at the pictures...they drive the %$%$##@ out of them!
Ex-press car. Ex-rental car. Who would willingly buy either?
I am surprised they are even sold to the public afterwards and not crushed.
@@autobahnproven press cars can be pretty well maintained- it for example isn’t uncommon for journalists to buy one even after they’ve done the rounds. Harris just purchased the Polestar 1 press car.
@@autobahnproven I would buy an ex-press cars. Especially if the company takes care of said car properly. Think Porsche GB's RO10HBY (that Grey Black 997.2 GT3 RS) or Audi UK's OY07MHL (the Daytona Grey R8 V8 that Jeremy drove in TopGear and James drove in this channel).
I think when someone sees an FF at BCA auctions, they'd immediately know there's something preventing it being sold privately by its previous owner. That's why buying at auction will always be a risk. Especially from BCA...
Which is why they are cheap. Anyone taking this on would surely know the potential problems and be able to sort them, hopefully. But I can’t see it selling for £60k though!
Stories like this discourage me from aspiring to buy high end cars at some future point in my life. So much hassle for enjoying driving a good car makes very little sense to me.
Yes, not worth the hassle.
And the fact that you're obligated to take it to the dealer or a specialist even for basic things which equals £££ just to maintain a service history........I find some joy in buying older cars with 6 figure miles on the clock and then doing servicing and repairs myself. I recently replaced my Ranger Rovers front suspension and steering - nearly the whole lot - for less than I probably would've been charged for a ball joint. I'll probably be the sucker who buys an ultra high mileage FF with questionable history at some point ;)
@@MrRedders the appeal of these ego mobiles soon wears off once the main dealer has his way with your wallet. Toyota all the way for me now. And like you, try to maintain myself as far as possible
A fool and his 💰.. does any more really need to be said.. at some point most people realise cars are just tools, but some can appreciate.
@@kisi5209 I appreciate real cars. That’s classics. Properly built
Normally I agree with james but not with this . Any dealer would know that if a vehicle like this is going to auction in this current crazy market then something is wrong . Ultimately a dealer or specialist wouldn’t be spending anywhere near the money asked by a Ferrari main dealer to fix this ( they would be using their own labour ) . In regards to a general punter who might purchase this from a dealer . They would have the option to get it inspected ( as James did ) . You’d have to be daft not to check a leggy high mileage/ complex Ferrari before purchasing ( James eludes to this earlier on)
Agreed. The McLaren dealership are doing nothing wrong here. They've taken a car in that is more hassle than it is worth whichever way you look at it. In an ideal world they would spend a few pounds on it prepping it up and sell it, but this car is not in that category. Therefore knocking it out at a trade auction makes perfect sense. What happens from then on is not the dealers responsibility. The end.
Yep totally agree. Pretty much a rant over nothing for me
Yes as above. I actually think the amount described as likely being required is a fair estimate on any car of this class and complexity at 60k miles to bring it up to excellent when you intend to take it to Ferrari main dealer. No real news here.
I completely disagree with this perspective. Any experienced dealer buying from an auction knows that a car is there for good reason. They have the opportunity to view the car before auction,start them up and in some cases drive them. They know what they are getting into and the potential costs. Cars at auction are assumed to be dogs rather than grade A, and sell for rockbottom prices due to that assumption. There is no screwing going on when everyone assumes the worst. AS you said cosmetically the car was good but got the lowest grade, so that is a good indicator of the mechanical state.
Agree. I like your videos a lot Jimbo but your judgement is off here.
exactly. The moral high horsing is getting kinda annoying as I initially thought this was a review video. I mean no one wants to get scammed, but that's literally the business and what happens after the sale is none of the buyer's business. A dealer isnt oblivious to what goes on in auctions, and they are aware how to run the business in most cases. The dude is just being an annoying buyer at this point, his view point is somewhat immature.
That’s completely horse shit, ive been in the game 37 years, James is trying to protect buyers be them trade or public. I worked for BAC for a total of 8 months till i left due to being sick of bad practice. You buy what you see yes but it no excuse for getting reamed. A mis on a focus or bad tyres is noticeable , the faults on this car aren’t a cost a focus to fix .
@@juliandale50You may have just upset the shit house dealers above.
What a lot of people don’t know is that the group that owns BCA also owns We Buy Any Car, Cinch, Marshal motor Group and have just bought a 20% stake of Lookers motor group. As for the dealer they will absolutely never disclose any of the faults to BCA as they want to get as much money for the car as they possibly can.
Very useful information 👌 👍 👏
i have a BCA account, there's two pages, 1 is a cosmetic condition and another that you may have missed the gives an essential mechanical report on things like gears (1st only) engaging, lights and electrics working, stereo function and tyre depth check etc etc
The Ferrari FF is the Ferrari i see the most here in the Bavarian & Austrian Alps, both at our Car events but also in general on the Road, especially in Winter and they're always dirty because just like G-Wagen they're actually used.
It's impossible to find a used FF around here that doesn't have over 100-150k km behind it, which compared to other Ferrari Models on the Market shows me that it's very reliable and very good in the cold & very snowy but also muddy Weather around here.
It's gonna be interesting to see if the Lusso will be just as reliable for daily & bad weather driving
Prost & Cheers from the Berchtesgadener Land in the Bavarian Alps
They are certainly very well used.
Prost!
@@heimatliebe116 Google translated "Prost!" into English as "Dumbass"! Having lived in Germany for many years, I always thought prost meant "cheers!". Thank you Google for correcting my longstanding misunderstanding... Maybe someone at Google doesn't like a certain French F1 champion...?😉
@@autobahnproven Your memory beats Google's translation!
@@autobahnproven I speak some German, but I also remeber it from bar scene in Django where Schultz (C Waltz) said "prost" to Django drinking beer :D
A lot of our present Economy is people /persons forcing their way in-between suppliers and customers to skim off as much money for as little value as they can. Add that to the closed markets of "wholesalers to wholesalers" and we all have a doomed feeling buying from almost anyone. Thanks for explaining and thinking about the next guy.
Enjoyed the video, as a fourty year veteran of motor trade let me try to help...Risk at trade auctions is reflected in the prices paid..also your estimates for repair are retail prices ,dealers will be paying trade for parts and wages for labour..this drops costs massively.
I agree that BCA is a racket but not for the reasons you have detailed...they own 'we buy any car' now you know😂👎
I was going to make this very point. BCA (WBAC) is more akin to a financial intermediary. They charge a processing fee to anyone selling with WBAC, knock the price they agree as low as possible to give themselves a chance of bettering that at auction, and then they charge a commission to the successful bidder at the auction. Means double (and potentially treble) bubble on every unit they shift. This is just a numbers game to them. And sometimes it works for us private owners to shift stuff this way. Caveat emptor!
"Risk at trade auctions is reflected in the prices paid" -- and prices paid at auctions are reflected in what the bidders THINK the car's condition is. Bidders set the price, not the "auctioners", so I don't see how the price reflects the condition of the car.
I’m astonished to discover that !
@@andycalifornia426 hey..you are right,the true condition of the car is not accurately reflected in the price brought at auction because as I said, risk (due to lack of information and inspection opportunity) is factored in to the bid.
That's why these auctions are generally trade only...the public do not have the facility to see a vehicle for what it actually probably is, or to repair the surprises cheaply.
@@ArbitraryFilmings trade dealers are constantly playing perception versus condition,it's their job to polish the turd presented by the auctions into something a retail dealer will buy to sell (or fire it back in to auction hoping some civilian bidder will push up)...they are a necessary part of the used car recycling ecosystem.
Can we all agree that playing "hot potato" with a Ferrari FF is just unethical and shows all them dealers regardless how proud they are of their heritage and "luxury" brands that they cover, they care little to nothing for actual cars and their clients :(
It's just about money. When it comes to that, they're no better than scumbags and chavs committing petty crime. In some ways I look at them worse. They hide behind the veil of respectability and class, but behind that mask they're as cutthroat and callous as anyone could be.
People in then industry move from ford to bmw to ferrari and back again for the money. Very few of them are car enthusiasts, just like not many eatate agents are into grand designs. Its an item of stock to be flipped for a return.
If you knew what went on at these 'prestigious dealers' behind closed doors your eyes would water! I've got some stories.
@@MrManBuzz Yup. 100%. I know for a fact there's a dealer right now offering a restored, as new car that has been crashed very badly in the last 12 months...
What's ethics got to do with it? It's business, man, never personal.
Hi Jayemm I watch the majority of your videos and agree with you in most cases however I just had to put my opinion across on this one. I’m just going to put one thing out there as a used car dealer dealing with cars from £2500 to £250k. I think it’s completely wrong for someone to dictate to a dealer how they should sell there vehicle wether the car be right or wrong. It’s dealers option what they would like to do you gave them the option to buy the car as a trade purchase and they didn’t accept you draw the line there and move forwards. I completely disagree with a customer then saying that’s fine however you must now sell the vehicle how I tell you to. They only agreed because you have a platform.
BCA have terrible grade reports. As a example, when you sell a vehicle to We Buy Any Car they get auctioned off straight through BCA because BCA own WBAC. BCA will not plug a diagnostic in, they will only start the car and hear the engine for any strange noises. They will not drive or diagnose. They quote if I’m not mistaken any where between £100-£200 on each wheel that is scuffed and I think diamond cuts could be even more. This isn’t even talking about the rest of the body and what they would quote for scratches and marks etc etc. When they are at BCA having a grade report done they are scanned over by people who will just give the car a basic overlook. The dealer would not of disclosed to BCA what’s wrong with the vehicle. It will be interesting to see what sort of money/reserve there is on the car. People looking at this car in auction if they have any clue of the motor trade will know that there is hidden issues that’s why the car is there.
So yes the used car market can be very difficult. I would rather pay more from a private individual than from a auction. You have to understand I don’t disagree with what you are saying and I enjoy watching the channel however I do think it’s abit strong to dictate to a dealer how they should sell their vehicle. People spending that sort of money will usually have the vehicle pre inspected no matter where the vehicle is coming from, I could kind of understand if you buy a Ferrari from Ferrari the trust would be there but from watching this you can never be sure.
Gianluca. A very well written and well balanced comment… 👍
Gianluca you hit the nail on the head.
Any and All Purchasers dictate to the seller [dealer]. End of reply.
His inner authoritarian lefty popped out.
@@douglasjames4905 ? How's that?
Dealer on dealer action. Everyone who buys at auction goes in with eyes wide open.
Exactly, this moron thinks he’s going to play Jesus and police everyone to make sure that nobody buys a car that is known by anyone with half a brain to be a high maintenance vehicle with a high propensity for mechanical issues 🤦🏻♂️
Dealers may go in eyes open. But the point was, do they sort the problems or just sell on to a member of the public who doesn’t find out until it’s too late?
@@bluegblueg buyer in that case has a warranty from the dealer and Consumer Rights Act remedies for defects. And is well advised to pay for their own survey. This is a non-issue really.
@@jameswillard1 James does a great job and I’m not having a pop at him.
Most dealers who can buy a Ferrari (or any car for that matter) from auction situations but especially a Ferrari will know the risk involved here and will bid accordingly. However I guess there maybe certain businesses who as you said will wash it and punt it out to an unsuspecting customer.
Specialists will know, but it'll be the "premium" dealers who deal almost exclusively in moderately used Germans will take it as a chance of grabbing a cheap Ferrari, and the hit will ruin them, if it isn't bounced back to BCA every week.
It’s bound to be shoved back into auction a week later I reckon..
This is why when I buy an FF it will be from a trusted expert and subject to a full inspection. Great video
As the video is in advance of the auction it will be interesting to see what happens.
For a few months I worked as a car mover at a BCA site . Mainly as I love cars and it kept me busy post retirement. It certainly wasn’t for the money. One day I was walking back to the main hall , a mature gent told me to get a move on. I knew he was one of the senior BCA guys. Why I didn’t respond by asking him would you walk quickly for £7 per hour after tax I don’t know .....
The beauty of not needing the money is that you have the freedom to tell these types what you think of them..that's why older people in the workplace are a good thing mate👍....let's not regret the fact that your more polite than he is.
It's refreshing to see McLaren New Forest's decision not to sell the car to anyone after knowing the problems. Saves other potential customers for having a potential lemon (which is a shame because FF is a properly desirable car in my opinion).
It good to see but I think they only did it to save on headaches post sale especially if the new owner found this video.
Correct it is good of them, but they still own the car most likey as the auction is just providing a selling platform but now Jay had to go make a video about the car rendering it sale proof to anyone .... so they’ll probably be stuck with it
Or was the person who made this video…
That's not quite right. All McLaren New Forest have done is put a third party or two between themselves and the new owner. Essentially all they are doing is taking their name off it as the seller and replacing it with BCA or the dealer who buys it from BCA to protect their own reputation. They should have been much more careful with pre-purchase inspection before taking the car into stock.
Fair play to you James for trying to protect the dealer looking to add this to stock, or making an unsuspecting prospective customer aware if they’re in the market for one. You now have the subscribers to make a difference. Good man. Ed
FWIW the FF didnt sell at auction (yet). It made 60,500 unsold.
Surely the whole point of the BCA auction for McLaren is that they dispose of the FF without any responsibility and the purchase is at the buyer's risk. That is of course provided it sells because BCA do not own the car. This tale isn't fully told until we know the sale price although I can't believe that McLaren New Forest will be that delighted at the tale you have so far told!
No, people who have something to hide are never delighted when someone else shines a little light in the darkness by telling the truth. I have no problem whatsoever with a substandard car being sold, so long as the buyer is aware of the problems and the car is priced accordingly. James has done exactly the right thing.
@@matthewgodwin3050 No, it's a trade only disposal auction. While we now know the car is indeed a lemon, and McLaren know too, buying it untested is at buyer's own risk. It should sell at far below retail value - trade buyer beware!
@@matthewgodwin3050 McLaren have done the right thing by sticking it in a trade auction as that it is what they are for. If the car was 100% - or even close to it, it would not be there. I normally agree with much what James says, but not here. He could be in danger of making himself persona non grata at certain dealerships and nobody wants that to happen.
Sadly this is just what happens at dealer auctions, it's a shame that the system works this way
I assume the general prices are lower assuming some issues are there and how good/bad it is varies over an average.
@MeakerSE pretty much, the dealers will bid on the cars with an average % buffer to their expected overall costs, meaning if they expect an average of 10% of the total cost of the average vehicle in repairs, they'll bid a flat 10% lower than they would theoretically pay for a mint example (doesn't often happen). This falls down when the % is higher than that meaning the cost to repair is higher than expected/accounted for, which is when corners are cut or profits are eaten into (you can guess which one a lot of dealers do). There will be times when the cars require less than 10% repair costs and in theory should even out (10% Is theoretical)
A customer from hell! Mixing the cards, renegotiating and sulking if someone turn down your cutthroat offer and then hanging them out to dry on your channel.
So the better option was what, not buy it and let somebody else just walk into it without a clue what they were getting?
@@JayEmmOnCars It`s everybody`s own responsibility, when buying a used car, especially a Ferrari, to get an independent specialist inspection. And based on that make their decision. To pretend you are the saviour on a mission to protect all used cars only be sold in prestine condition is pure ludicrous.
It’s up to the eventual retail buyer to get a PPI and make a judgement as to what it is worth. Anybody else buying the car in the meantime should do so with their eyes open. By all means explain the workings of the auction market but don’t assume some sort of ownership just because you have spent a few hundred pounds.
Dear James, thank you for this video. However, this only reveals one thing which is well known already - Only buy a Ferrari with a good history and from a serious source. This FF should never have ended up in the hands of neither McLaren nor of BCA. They don't care about the outcome of this story. I hope you will find yourself a nice FF in good shape. I can only recommend it. I own one, and I absolutely love it. The greatest car I have ever driven and owned. A complete joy to drive, as you know. Cheers and good luck!
Hi James what can excellent informative video. Has just reinforced my belief only buy at dealerships - at least you have half a chance of a come back if there's a problem. If you find out what happens to the Ferrari I hope you'll be able to update us! Well done and thanks 👍
A private sale is even better in my experience. No matter what sales environment one chooses, you’re buying the previous owner’s maintenance history as well as the car. If you interact with the previous owner, you have the opportunity to ask direct questions and to read between the lines about the car you’re considering buying into.
Excellent video, great content. I couldn’t believe McLaren tried telling you shock absorbers are supposed to leak. McLaren dealers don’t help themselves do they! Thanks for putting on the big boy pants and telling this story.
LOL, if I ever fail a annual vehicle inspection due to a leaking shock - which is an automatic failure here - I'll tell the inspector "But McLaren say that shocks are supposed to leak!" - I'm sure they'll whack that compliance sticker straight on the windscreen no more questions asked.
I've been a car dealer for over 13 years. Just to be clear, lots of "good cars" wind up at auction. Circa 70% of cars enter the used market via auction. There is a hell of a lot of suspect cars that find their way there, but it's all about understanding the various vendors. You have to be careful with supercars, but i see plenty of good ones go through too, especially over the last 12 months where 'We buy any car' have been paying huge money for cars.
BCA only put mechanical reports on cars under 8 years old, however, with supercars, they will often put an extended 128pnt report on older cars. This is where McLaren come in, as it's down to the vendor how cars are sold, E.G. 'with or without report' So Mclaren have chosen to sell this 'sold as seen'. But they are well within thier right to do so, that's the trade for you.
Any dealer worth their salt knows not to touch a supercar without a report. If they do fancy the gamble, they will usually want to pay the right money to ensure margin for error. The problem is, as you rightly mentioned, SOME dealers will happily retail with all the mentioned faults and hope they fly under the radar. Track the car and see where it ends up, Motorhub certainly wouldn't surprise me!
The tragedy is this car is far too good for Motorhub!
@@JayEmmOnCars Most cars are!
Cmon James, even a “nice” reputable dealer has an obligation to make as much money as they can whilst not selling anything unsafe, and it appears this vehicle is safe. It looks here as if McLaren have informed BCA about the cars “some work needed” status hence the 5 rating. BCA don’t do full inspections, so that low grade could only have come from information provided by the seller. Things like tyres and brake components and undertrays are wear and tear items and as for cooling and heated seats, they’re just minor details that have little or no impact on the cars value whether working or not.
McLaren themselves told me they gave BCA no information
A leaking shock absorber and worn bushes are safety critical items and a MOT failure last time I checked. Though your opinion of the seats is right in some ways, it’s wrong for a car the was pushed at 88k.
The Grade 5 rating was obvs designed to be red herring, but a very obvious one imo. Prospective owners thinking ‘crikey, a bit of polish and touching up and I’ve got a real profit here..’ BCA know what they are doing. Make it seem that it’s been moved on by a dealer who can’t be bothered or have time to correct the cosmetics, so grade it a 5 mainly for ‘bodywork issues’, hence it’s a steal…..isn’t it? 😣
BCA certainly DO offer full inspections. The Essential Check that this car had costs £9 and the “Approved Check” which is a full mechanical inspection and comes with warranty to cover anything that goes wrong that wasnt mentioned in the check, this costs £45. The vendor (in this case McLaren) decides which check to pay for.
@@mattpitcher 45 quid how do they do it so cheap?!
Hahaha--knew where this was going from under a minute. By the time, "I took it upon myself" and "I did some amateur sleuthing" I was laughing hysterically. Jay and dealers...lol
I know, it's like the Discovery Channel and the Nazis - we'd be nowhere without each other!
@@JayEmmOnCarsPlease visit America! If you're ever in Seattle, you've got a place to stay. I live next to the legend Roy Cats---best dealer in the world.
@@matthewelliott2213 thanks for the info I’ve just googled them and I must say. WOW. They have some beautiful cars. What a dealership. They must know there stuff back to front. If ever I am in Seattle I would love to visit. It’s like going into a car museum without having to pay 👌👌👌👌❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️😂😂😂
@@russcooke5671 In Roy's personal collection is one of the three manual Murci SV's in America, both of the brown Diablo SE's, Miura-S & SV examples...etc. He's a University of Washington alum and pre covid did a fund raiser car show every year at the school and broke out the 1:1's... God tier Lambo collection. True story--Roy has sold more Lambo's than anyone else in the world.
@@matthewelliott2213 thanks for the reply Matthew. I do love the Diablo. In my opinion it’s better looking then any other lambo Except of course the Miura. But if I could choose any one of them I think I would have the first Countach model before they put the big spoilers on it. Just my humble opinion. But my all time favourite would be an Aston Martin DB4. Series 1. Did you know the James Bond Aston DB5 is actually a DB 4. The DB5 was not ready yet so they used a modified DB4. Take care and stay safe mate 👌👌👌👌👌👌❤️
Yes Jay. That is just how business works. Cars are sold for a reason and it's very rarely for good will or because it's perfect. Can you or anyone else on this chat put their hand on heart and say they never withheld some information about something (anything) they ever sold? The reason a retailer charges more is the margin in any rectification or warranty.
Selling to a dealer, or selling privately?
Privately, I am as honest as I can be. Every little scratch is pointed out and made clear.
To a dealer - well, they've made their own rod for their own back. They will squeeze every last drop out of you, especially if they suspect that you don't know too much about what it is your buying. They frequently do just the very shady things (collectively throughout the industry) that gives them their infamous reputation.
So if that means I can only 'drop my car off in part ex in the dark' or I don't mention that it needs 4 new tyres or that there's a bit of a judder from the rear left then that's up to them. They should be doing a full inspection on the vehicle regardless - and it's not my perogative to assume otherwise.
@@L5GUK and you wonder why you think dealers try to squeeze as much out of you as possible? Because they have to consider the high risk of previous owners doing them over by not declaring any issues on part exchanges, which happens often. On top of this they have to pay huge overheads and eventually try and make some profit. They don't make as much as people think yet apparently they're all pirates.
@@bencocker7487 The reputation of a used car salesman didn't come from nowhere.
Their overheads are not the problem of the customer.
If they struggle with the cost of warranties then they should take more care to ensure the vehicles they sell are as they should be.
If they can't afford to do that, then they can't afford to do business. That's simple capitalism at its purest.
@@L5GUK ok just gloss over my main point of you thinking it's morally acceptable to part exchange in your undeclared clapped out old car "because it's a business". Yet when you buy a car and a tyre pressure sensor goes off you'll label the dealer as scum. Used car preparation costs come from the dealers pockets, not warranties. You're the problem if you think that a highly complex machine is guaranteed to never go wrong if it's been prepared "as they should be".
@@bencocker7487 not sure where I said anything about a 'clapped out old car'.
But carry on trying putting words in people's mouths. 👍
Good video and an accurate description of the dealer auction experience. I was a dealer in a previous life, and in North America anyway, there is limited post sale recourse. In my experience if the consignor discloses something the auction will publish it or at minimum make a on block announcement. Disclosure is always a good antidote. Cheers
Very interesting video. Lots of things to think about. Keep up the good work.
You would be absolutely right. Some customer is going to get bitten by this car from the final dealer. No dealer is going to spend more than 10k quid in repair, if there is not a buyer bidding for it.
And this surprises you why precisely ? Every car I've ever bought needs money spending on it. High peak autos and chops garage are examples of a couple of good dealers trying to navigate the used car minefield. Specially now with prices at record silly levels. I work on the basis if a car was any good the owner wouldn't have sold it. Appreciate there are geniune reasons for sales but mostly i suspect because a warranty has run out and people would rather avoid that expense
Me too. Trust nobody, which is a shame
Agree, quite a naive video really
I think its highly commendable to not want the next potential buyer to be screwed if you know about the faults. So bravo for that. At least its trying to break the cycle. 👏
@@paulmatthews9366
A dealer will buy this at a discount and be able to get it rectified at trade price (much cheaper parts / Labour) . As always the main point here is Buyer beware… this video just shows the value of an inspection on a Ferrari - other than that not much value here as we already know, unless incredibly niave, that auctions have always been a huge risk at any price point.
If you ask me the McLaren dealer did the right thing by not selling it to another customer thru the garage, and that’s a good outcome
Agreed. Pretty much a non story imo
Im glad u highlighted this. Granted most people with some car knowledge or with their heads screwed on will know not to buy these kind of cars from auction...im more impressed the way u found out and are calling out BCA! This story had to be told. Well done pal
I love this channel. Most of the cars you feature I'll never own. The tyres on most could buy several 206 estates 😃 I'm very much Hubnut when it comes to cars.
It's nice to look over the fence and see the fancy stuff.
Great video, dealers getting out of a bad trade in at the auction seems to be how the motor trade goes round, stuffing it into each other and eventually filtering through, boiling down to a salesman screwing unsuspecting customers to get out of the bad buying decision made buy the boss at an auction, sticking a 3 month warranty on a car and hoping nobody looks too closely, after that, it’s too late, sad really.
TBH, I don't really have an issue here. Anyone with half a brain knows that an FF that's found its way to a BCA auction is going to be a basket case car. And if it's a dealer-only auction, then the bidders CERTAINLY KNOW what pitfalls lies ahead. Also, lets be honest - a £20k remedial bill on an auction house FF really wouldn't be a huge deal or surprise. Crikey - I just spent £11k on my FSH 360... a semi-neglected FF is a whole different league of risk exposure! I just find it a shame that you've focused on the worst possible outcome. There's every chance that a dealer will bid appropriately, fix what needs fixing, and still make a healthy profit. When (and why) did we become so jaded?
Because we're talking about car dealers. If you ain't questioning, you ain't thinking.
Because this dude will find the most benign thing and make a 3.5 hour video on it
I'm always sceptical when dealers are auctioning on BAT and other sites, this is pretty eye opening, thank you!
This starts with the general public who can also not be trusted by offloading junk onto dealers and hiding a cars real history.
If you see a 60k mile FF at a BCA car auction (or any other exotic car) you should know what you're buying into.....a money pit. That's just the way it works and why few main dealers ever put anything other than nearly new low mileage cars on their forecourts.
True. Dealers do get stung too, but it’s down to them to inspect it thoroughly especially as they should know better. Having said that, I’m betting they paid £65k for it trade-in, and made a chunk on the McLaren they sold him..
Just found the channel and loving the videos.. What i will say on this one is that maybe you can not tell a dealer how they can or can not advertise their car. Especially when they send it to auction. Everyone who buys these types of car, or any car for that matter, knows the risks. BCA at the end of the day are an auction house and the same can be said of any auction house no matter which product they are selling. I work in the trade for a large company, purchasing vehicles and know the risk involved with buying cars at auction, which i do! Anyway, great channel and you have a new subscriber!
Fascinating story. I have never ever had a good experience with a car dealer, new or second hand. Its obvious Mclaren found out they have a lemon and it is now enjoying a game of musical chairs waiting for some poor schmuck to pick it up when the music stops.
I have to agree, the whole experience is arkward, funny as it likely prevents people changing their car more often!
What a brave video, Jay. Totally worth sharing it and giving the buyer the opportunity to bid correctly. On the other hand, you’re talking about people who have focus on money and don’t care about anything else. A brick through the front window wouldn’t surprise me. Take care.
Thank god for JE. I’m a bca patron of seventeen years. Isn’t good. Next trader won’t know of woes likely sell mostly as is. Bad. And yes bca is close to an inner circle scam. Dealer to dealer independent do list semi honestly between each other Manheim and bca fall behind value less reports and yes. The Wild West of the car trade. B2B. You’ve summed this up so so well YE
Amazing video, this kind of things should be known, and is shows how really the buying and selling works
JayEmm.. my new favourite car channel chap! Great work here, I’ve been stitched by more than one dealer in the past. Very expensive and painful lessons.
Talking of PPI's. I had one done on a porsche by an very renowned independent dealer and they missed 5 items. It really does belittle the point of a PPI.
Great video and all valid points relating to high end, potential money pit supercars. At the other end of the market auctions, retail to retail rather than dealer to dealer, can work well. I have bought a Rover P4 at auction that I drove home in a that needed a little work but now runs perfectly, and sold a fully sorted Lotus Excel through an on line auction, taking advantage of the speed and ease of sale. Auction houses encourage buyers to inspect before purchase not all sellers are looking to sell duds.
You have become compulsive viewing James! Your videos are just brilliant. I’m Irish so our car availability and models are much the same, its great having “local” stuff and not just American content,
Keep it up
Michael
Except we have to pay nearly twice the money for the same car as our friends in the UK. Our government is doing its best to take the joy out of cars. They want us all on bicycles or in evs without the infrastructure
@@KingBanter 😂🤣 all so true 😂🤣 to run one of those cars for the usual 5 years talked just on car tax alone is €10,000 to €15,000. Then duty and purchase price it’s just not possible for the average person, even if reasonably high earner we can only hope for the entry level of the cars like 2.0 cayman etc. all we can do is watch I guess 🤷🏻♂️
I feel you pain
@@michaelsdiscusandatticaqua9155 Agree 💯%
It’s an absolute joke🙄
They’d rob the milk out of your tea 🫖
@@KingBanter 😆 that’s a brilliant phrase 😆 milk out of your tea, haven’t heard that one before 😆
It’s a serious pain alright! I worked close to the border 20 years ago and the cars the lads in similar jobs as me had in ni was depressing!
It’s so different!
@@michaelsdiscusandatticaqua9155
Absolutely! If u go to a car meet in the south , all the Lamborghinis , Ferraris mclarens etc are usually Yellow regs. A car that would cost £170,000 would be over 300k here
Enjoyed the video James - your content is unique and always worth watching.
I am custodian of a Porsche 914 with a 3.2L engine swap. The car was local to me, I’d known of its existence for maybe 4 years, but had never met its owner. One day, I happened to mention to a mutual friend, that if the owner ever wanted to sell, it I’d like to talk with him about the car. As it happened the owner had submitted it Bring A Trailer. I was able to reach an agreement with the owner to buy the car for what he had into it rather than at BAT’s sky high bidding pricing; under the condition that he would have right of first refusal for the sum I paid him + cost of improvements I make to the car, should I want to sell it.
The PPI he had done was really superficial (I’m certain the owner wasn’t aware of its lack of accuracy.) For instance the PPI noted a small oil leak at the rear of the engine, that my mechanic discovered was a defective rear main seal (a $2K job). And on from there.
Sorry for the length of the context. What’s relevant here is that similar to BCA, BAT had just accepted that PPI without any question. These online auction sites are money making scum. Not only are they inflating car values; but also, they lack the integrity of a person to person sales agreement.
Brilliant video Jay, thanks, trying to buy a second hand car at the moment and no matter what car it is, its so difficult to trust anyone whether they be dealerships or private sellers, either ridiculously overpriced or lots of shady problems in the background that they will or won't admit to having until you start to investigate
I wouldn't touch an auction unless I was a mechanic and wanted a 'project' car. I guess it's a case of "Caveat Emptor"
Great insight video. The FF is IMO one of the most beautiful things ever conceived.
Great video. Very informative. Another thing I think you could also highlight is cars which have been crashed, then repaired but does not show up on hpi checks etc as the original owner didn't claim on insurance. This surely is another loophole / scam to the unsuspecting buyer🤔
Superb video. You should do a follow up if and when the car comes back on the market!
Hi Jay, came here from your latest video - I think so many people in the comments and online have completely missed the point you were making..
This car, should not just be flogged to another dealer for them to tart up and sell on to a less suspecting supercar buyer, potentially could be their first supercar.
I don't know if Mclaren had many other options to auction the car elsewhere as I have no understanding of this situation.
Hope all got resolved with this car in the proper manner. New subscriber!
Like Eric O. from South Main Auto once said: Not all cars at the auction are bad, but all bad cars are at the auction.
That is brilliant.
If anyone finds this surprising then they know nothing about the car trade
Any dealer/seller should run a light year from James!
All they will get is a load of agg and if he feels he's been mistreated then a scathing video putting the boot in.
These old FF's are to be avoided. They were trouble new with that front transmission. Unless you are a millionaire then why bother? In fact the clever money buys a new Lusso.
Don’t people buying from auction take the risk of the nasties that this particular car holds ?!!
The fairest place to get rid of this car.
None of the things on your list would frighten a dealer if it wasn’t a Ferrari. Most cars at auction would have issues at that age and mileage
Having watched what goes through bca auctions on a weekly basis, it would blow most peoples mind... i have seen loads of 911 gt3 s go through, and even a gt2..but have quite a few Ferraris , mclarens,
I enjoyed the video, Jay. Your attitude on this subject is commendable, but I think a little naive. When buying a car like that any competent dealer will have ‘caveat emptor’ firmly in mind. Equally, when it comes to the individual buying the car from the purchasing dealer they should have ‘caveat emptor’ firmly in mind (just as you did) and get a PPI.
The fact that BCA graded it as a 5 suggests nobody was being dishonest, it’s buyer beware at auction with that as a flag. GDPR would have prevented the inspection report being handed over, but the “5” suggests BCA were made aware.
GDPR has nothing to do with it, a common excuse trotted out by dealers for a lack of paperwork!
@@JayEmmOnCars Be that as it may, but that’s what happens. Any hint of contact details for the previous keeper, it’s safer to shred than to risk the fine!
@@iancraven1363 the inspection report had my name on it and nobody elses!
Really enjoyed this. Live down the road from Meridian and have been to the McLaren dealer you reference. Thanks for highlighting the issues with the car!
JayEmm if you wanted a retail prepared Ferrari just pay retail money as a retail customer. Don't expect a trade car to be treated as a retail car. Simples.
I work in the motor trade & know for a fact that stuff that goes to auction normally is too expensive for the dealer to put right or even worse has something stopping it from being fully warranted when sold such as prior accident damage that hasn’t been repaired correctly or irreversible engine tuning which most main dealer software will pick up & put a mark on the vehicles online identity which is permanent & thus prevents future warranty claims or the guarantee of the longevity of the vehicle.
Thanks for your honesty JayEmm!
This has got to be the most effective “don’t ever buy an FF” video I’ve ever seen, lol. BCA shenanigans aside, it’s just given me a hair raising list of things that go wrong with them (the PTU being a real show stopper). Am actually a bit surprised as I though Ferrari was finally getting its QC act together
I feel for you James, difficult situation to judge. As you know, someone is going to take offence no matter how clearly and honestly you try to put your point across. Given the exposure now though, it will probably end up a fair deal where no one is being hung out to dry (zero margin for dealer and zero risk for buyer); which is most likely your objective with this video. I'd like to read a little more on the PH thread you mention, so if you could pm me the link, that would be much appreciated ;)
What this does show for certain is that you are a thoroughly good bloke 👍🏼
I love these videos. Now imagine JayEmm making deals while wearing a hidden camera.
Thanks for a great video and insight into the second hand car auction world and also highlighting the importance of checking out a vehicle through the proper channels before committing to purchase!
This is one area of the car industry/market I dont know much about. Very interesting video, thanks.
Excellent content. Lack of supply is leading many car dealers getting stung, some prefer to buy from private sellers.
Fair play for making the video and putting people on notice of the issues with a car. My own view though is that if it’s a trade auction why would the McLaren dealer have any responsibility to disclose any information? Sure, nobody will have any idea of the mechanicals from the BCA ‘appraisal’ but I’d expect any trade bidder to know that anyway.
Hi Jay, do you think you'll put out some more automotive investigation/journalism videos in the future? I have another topic you could look into but it would attract some vitriol from people because the company in question does have a good reputation.
Great video, thanks. Been thinking of buying a FF and this was very useful as well as informative.
This unfortunately been going on for years,when the registration system changed to the newer 2 letter prefix,those in the know could smell a rat.My old employers bought cars from auctions for forecourt stock,they're in SouthEast England but on one occasion returned with a Scottish registered vehicle,upon inspection there were signs of rear impact with a creased floor,but otherwise to look at it seemed ok from 1st glance.Now a dealer in Scotland decided to sell that at auction that was over 300 miles away,why? Surely there is an Auction closer ? Got done TWICE like that,so it got to the point that unless the car was registered within a 150 mile radius they wouldn't even contemplate buying a car from further afield than that.As always the decision always seems to come down to money,morals and principles are left by the wayside.Great video as always 👏👌
I don't think that report was too bad for a 11 year old car, it's not like it came up with a knackered engine, just consumables really, be a good buy at say 45k bid, I'd have thought 5k would sort it at trade, I'm sure pads, shocks, new arm removing a under try wouldn't be too taxing, what do you expect for the age and mileage?
That it bothers you is corraborating evidence that you are a decent fellow.
I like this monologue format, makes for good verify.
Great Video James.
In all honesty, i am a dealer and have been burned a number of times by other dealers. We do the repairs on our end and chalk it up to experience. We had instances that a few cars we bought are on the interpol watchlist.
That's some top quality man maths there at the start 😂
Very interesting I remember 25 years ago walk-through a bca lot and seeing some on the surface high end cars
This will go viral.
Buyer beware dealer or not it’s a dirty game
That why an inspection is good but when
I have done this on older stuff they generally
Find issues dealer does not want to fix
So you end up walking away . But you have
Spent money , possibly wisely but you still
Money spent and no car . Try and buy
From a trusted source, all dealers are going to
Dodgy cars in PX they want to sell theirs.
Buy late from main dealers or private get to know the owner .
What ever you choose is a mine field.
Great subject cheers
Well, the Piston Heads thread was closed. What an interesting story.
I just need the story from the Lovett family, on how they decided calling their son Dick. I care for that kind of family folkore.
His brother Lyle struck lucky, Richard must have had difficult days at school.
Hi Jay What you have highlighted is what happens every day in the Motor Trade albeit on a smaller price range. The keeper will never disclose what condition or may not know the true condition of the said vehicle. Stamping a service book does not tell the complete picture and any previous invoices unless disclosed are hidden behind Data protection issues. It is much the same in the property market take it from me having bought and sold 14 times in 40 years agents rarely have answers or previous owners if alive and the only way to find the facts are do do your own homework and have a full structural survey which in recent months would highly recommend irrespective of cost. The person that inspected the vehicle certainly from the information certainly did s good job!
Wild west would be the word. We have similar cases in Spain and some dealers even sell cars that have being involved in big accidents without disclosing information. Theres a company growing and their videos on instagram consist on particulars calling them to inspect cars they want to buy and some examples are mad like a ford focus rs that had being "clearly" (if you know were to look at) rolled over.
I'm also very interested in the price of life in the UK, because I'd never have thought a channel like yours could run three!! ferraris. This would be unimaginable with a similar channel here. You are on your way to be theschmee, but with actual enjoyable videos
Love the channel James, but not sure you have a horse in this race. Don't worry about what happens the car
Ah yes the cartel that is BCA , owners of We buy any car and Cinch . No warranty implied or given , sold as seen and buyer beware indeed . Reminds me of Damians ( The car guys ) video buying his 930 turbo from a very prestigious auction house and upon inspection requiring circa £7000 of remedial work , worth a watch if you haven't seen it James . Really enjoyed that . 👍👍
It’s a difficult predicament for all concerned really as it playing hot potato until someone gets burned. Does it stem from improper inspection when the car was traded in at Mclaren? Or however they acquired it? Potentially. But it’s very odd for them to offer to repair it for you without getting an actual estimate for the work needed first.
Happens day in day out mate , part exchanges are simply just taken away with no inspection they’re driven onto the transporter and go straight through auction . Then the next bit is best most other smaller dealers will also buy stock then it will go from the auction house straight onto another forecourt often without being mechanically checked over just washed polished back for sale , this is not the case for all as some people like myself do inspect stock before I resell it , eventually it’s sold again to a retail customer
Yep, and that is why the video is here. Now no retailer can claim that any of these problems happened "after" the sale
At a Category 5 and, considering the bodywork is in reasnobly good nick, most dealers should have read between the lines! I wonder if it'll sell!? 🤔