Marshall JCM 800 Vs Bogner Ecstasy 3534
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- This is mostly a review of the Bogner. I have several videos of the 800 on my channel. Small recap: The 800 is a 2204 modded with an extra gain stage, lots of component changes, added switchable clean channel, loop, resonance, and a switchable second master volume.
The Bogner sounds almost as good (to my ears) but lacks a transparent loop. Just introduces a lot of white noise and with my setup a ground-loop hum. Maybe a little too harsh on the upper mids. Some people like that. For me all the switchable features are too extreme in any direction. I could never settle on a combination plus the EQ is too active for me.
bruh...that Bogner sounds KILLER...you, by far, have gotten the best tones out of any demo I have heard for the amp...I just pulled the trigger and my 3534 will be here tomorrow!
That's one of the best sounding JCM800's Ive ever heard....wow
I agree.
@@thanovee5999i agree, too. Very good sound. What kind of mod is this?
Yoo today Bogner all day for me! Love how it sounds further back in the mix. A bit more compressed, much more warm than the Marshall
Ys they had issues with that loop. They fixed it for the new 50 watt 3534 head and that head sounds way bigger than the 35 watt head. Reminds me of my Archon and it's noise.
I've got a 3534 and the loop is very quiet with my effects.
Hola acabo de comprar uno igual aún no le recibo, tú crees que el príoblema
Este generalizado y se trate de un problema puntual en varias unidades. Cuéntame tu experiencia saludos 🖖
As a gigging owner of a 3534 this amp shines. Not sure where you had the master at when you had the fx engaged,but i am thinking it was high. Also,Great playing! I am a GIT grad, have a 80 JMP, slo,lonestar and 73 twin. Many 4,2&1x12 cabs. This amp pretty much does everything. Sorry it didn’t work out for you. Always get compliments on my tone, especially the clean.
if you're not using the FX loop, should you just turn the fx assign off? Does that fix the hum
@@Ibanezguy2007 There is no hum, its +4db line level. You need a line mixer... Its designed for rack effects units
@@ben156that is to say that when you use a rack fx unit you will not have noise, because for me just turning it on and without connecting anything makes noise.
I played a 101b in my rock project and an Uber in my metal band. That was my gear for over 10 years. I recently offloaded both of them due to reliability issues with both. But more than a decade of Les Paul into Ecstasy, and Ernie Ball JP BFR 7 into Uber, probably garnered me more tone compliments than one man deserves. My good friend is looking at an old 101a for sale right now and I told him... Just get it, man.... One day I may have an ecstasy again, but I think the UBER ULTRA would be the one to try next for me. Great vid!!!
Jcm800 for American metal
Bogner3534 for British rock
I had same issue in the loop and it is already solved. 1 very small diode (responsible for some function of 1 of the transformers) was not fully soldered. Probably just an issue of automatic soldering on production line. Now it works perfectly.
Very cool. Thank you for sharing.
Can you provide more information on this diode? Is it located at position u303?
If you ever decide to sell this JCM800 please message me first!
Noisy loops are a deal breaker, for sure. I had a Fender with an obnoxious loop, turned our first run folks put metal nuts on the loop jacks instead of plastic… that took care of it, and a little copper sheet between the loop board and output transformer.
Silly comparison considering the Bogner cost twice as much as the Marshall...& its a rip off!
I know it’s not for most people, but I run a Decimator II G String in the loop and then hit the front end of the Bogner (like they did in the old days) with all my FX and it took care of all the humming issues. The D-II is quite an improvement over the the original IMO. I also swapped out the stock power tubes with a pair of matched Winged C’s and that helped reduce the ground noise floor. So now, even with single coils, I can gig the heck out of the 3534 and not have those awful ground type noises.
That’s interesting………about the Decimater. I use the original and have wondered if the D-II was actually any better/improved? What can you say is actually better about Decimater II? Peace.
The bogner 3534 I had was the noisiest amp I have owned
Bogner has less punch and presence but more smoothness and warmth
haha in order for the Marshall to have a chance it needed to be modded. I can't think of anyone that likes their 800 stock for high gain.
True, but everyone who was anyone had theirs modded back in the day.
I have both but I prefer the Bogner . My favorite is my Wizard which is a super Marshall sound still my main lol
Wizard is in a class of its own.
Bogner blows it away
I've been looking for an amp that I can use with an HX Effects to change channels and use 4 cable. I'm finding a lot of new amps don't allow a TRS cable or MIDI to change channels. I use a PRS MT-15 which has a terrible sound when you plug anything but the foot switch into it. The new Archon only allows their proprietary foot switch. It's even written in fine print on the amp. The Bogner actually uses a foot switch with two cables instead of just one. Not sure if it allows for TRS switching, but the second cable makes it more difficult to incorporate a switcher. Anyway, with the Helix, TC Electronics and other multi-effect units becoming so popular I'm surprised more amp companies aren't using MIDI or TRS. ENGL has a new Ironball that has MIDI and IR loading. REVV has been doing a lot to incorporate new tech into their amps. I'm not sure why other companies aren't doing it yet.
While I love all this new tech finding it’s way into amps, most technicians won’t touch them with a 10’ pole. My main guy told me don’t bring me an amp that’s newer than 1980. That’s a big issue for me because for the past 10 years my amp has seen a lot of live show/travel abuse. Eventually it will break down as has. I can’t afford the down time of sending an amp off to be worked on.
Marshall sounds friggin amazing ! The Bogner sound incredible as well. I have the 3534 as well and don't have issues with the loop. Have you tried a normal delay pedal in the loop? Still same issue? I do need to try my bogner 4CM with my FX8 to see I run into same issues.
Yes. It’s not as bad but I’ve become reliant on my G System for live shows. We do a Metallica medley that is back and forth between high gain and clean and I can’t do all the tap dancing with pedals. I need presets and a single button press to go from a lead tone with delay to clean tone with reverb and chorus to a dry rhythm over and over. The more pedals I add the more the problem grows.
So you can confirm that the loop FX of the Bogner makes no noise with every pedals you have? I'm interested cause I'd like to buy the 3534, that could have a more credible clean sound than the JCM, I suppose.
Was never a huge fan if either one of those amps, but you’ve got that Bogner dialed in incredibly well. I really like the Helios, as well. Well done…thanks for sharing.
Marshall, baby!
Bogner sounds great - noticed you really did not touch the tone stack/eq much just voice switches -
The main reason was to show what the switches did. Plus I didn’t find the tone controls very musical. For me there was a very narrow window of sweep that was useful. Ultimately what did this amp in was playing it live. I think even if the loop worked flawlessly the amp just didn’t work for me live. I felt like I was struggling to play what is easy with my Marshall. It’s not scientific but it’s something I could t ignore.
Move the mic stand. 😁
The 800 sounds awesome. The Bogner's more versatile...and it's smaller (duh). The 50-watt Bog would be a better comparison, now.
800 all the way. Sounds punchier and more expressive. 3534 sounds just .... sweeter
something is wrong with that bogner
The JCM sounds more like a hot rodded plexi. Normally I don't like the 800, but this one sounds good. Can you share how it was modded?
I can tell you who did it and the general mods but I don’t know the tech specs. It has an extra gain stage/tube. It has some kind high pass filter in the early signal path to tighten up the bass response, much like an overdrive pedal would do. It has a 1987 Marshall clean circuit installed that is footswitchable. It has a footswitchable second master for solo boost. It has a very transparent loop installed and a reasonace (sp?) knob to get back the low end.
Check out the Friedman Runt 50. Very similar voice/feel of a hotrodded 800 with a KILLER clean channel and one of the best fx loops in the amp world.
Bogner sounds as if it has already been recorded , EQd and defizzed. A no-brainer! Don't be a slave to the older label only. Be a master of good tone and fine taste -read "Bogner"
Thanks a lot for that demonstration. The ground loop hum is a dealbreaker to me. Question is if that is a defect Bogner 3534 or if it is an inherent flaw to the amp. Do you have the answer to that?
Another person commented that he had the same problem with his.
@@bhosterman Thanks a lot for answering!
@@badcat3817 thanks for subscribing!
@@bhosterman I had same issue in the loop and it is already solved. 1 very small diode (responsible for some function of 1 of the transformers) was not fully soldered. Probably just an issue of automatic soldering on production line. Now it works perfectly.
I like the Marshall.
Who did your Marshall mod?
Also what year is your Standard and is it a regular one or a custom shop, VOS, etc..?
JCM all the way....👍👍
I think you could have make the Bogner sound closer to the Marshall by dialing the presence knob.
Bogner's amps seem more low mids focused while the Marsalls are full of high mids
All the comparison videos I’ve made with the 800 are a bit unfair. The guy who modded it resolved all its weaknesses so you don’t need a boost to clean up the low end or drive the front end. You don’t need drastic eq to shape that classic tone. It’s a bit like comparing a race ready sport bike to a stock sport bike.
Wow. I never knew how versatile the Bogner amp could be.
That's kinda been the whole deal with the XTC since the beginning. 3 channels, tons of voicing switches, etc. They're a true swiss army knife of sound.
Another example of how a les paul and JCM 800 were made for each other!
Have you tried any kind of ground lift to remedy the noise?
In regards to the noise with your floor unit... You need a line level mixer to bring the Bogner's +4db down to regular line levels. Its designed for rack units. I hope you learned this by now though and are enjoying the 3534!
There's nothing special about the Bogner FX loop, it uses the same circuit as pretty much every other tube based FX loop out there. The issue is that they didn't put an FX send level so whatever you plug into has to be able to handle a line level signal which is totally needless if only they put a send level knob or a +4db/-20db switch on it. Oddly enough they put an effects return level knob which is sort of stupid since most outboard equipment will already have an output level control.
I like the original the best, the 800 can be equaled, but really can’t be beat? The others are chasing its tones!
Hi. Whats the year of your JCM 800 amp ? Thanks
Off the top of my head I believed it’s mid 80s.
love the video, cool licks everywhere and great tones. Liked the amps equally but would use for different things in my opinion :p
There are riffs besides slach riffs
Amp sounds badass and your playing is killer. Rock on!
Jcm800 but the bogner it's sick
Finally got myself a Marshall JMP2204. Really a fantastic amp. Maybe the best amp ever made. When that is said i still LOVE the Bogner stuff. A Bogner pedal in front of that amp is a really nice flavour to have. My next and last amp to complement the Marshall will be a Bogner.
Bogner has tha backbone
800 sounds a lot more open to me. Just all around a better sound.
Great playing, great amps, and a great Les Paul!
LOVE the tones from your JCM 800.
The Marshall sounds better.
Marshall all the way,sounds right to the ear.
Might just be me, but I think the Marshall sounded much less muddy. Crisper. If that makes sense.
100%. I can tell you this, most people in the audience wouldn’t care if I played a line 6 spider amp but for me the Marshall has never left me wanting more. It always does what I need it to and makes me happy. I played the Bogner one set and couldn’t wait to switch it out on a set break. Not just because of the noise, I ended up playing it with only a delay pedal in the loop to cut back on that, but it just didn’t make me happy. These things are so subjective. And if you follow me at all you’ll know my opinions on these things are about as constant as the weather. The only amp I’ve ever had that I haven’t changed my mind about is this Marshall.
@@bhosterman With my upbringing, late 70’s and 80’s, it’s gonna be a hard sell to convince me that anything can sound better than a direct line into a Marshall.
@@daddymidwest4111 couldn’t agree more. The more I do this the more I seek out older amps. The raw sound really appeals to me. The dynamics. The almost unrefined nature that has to be tamed and harnessed. One thing I’ve noticed over the years is that the guys who have “awesome” tone during sound check vs the guys who have a seemingly dull sound end up lost in the mix. I used to tech for a band that both guitar players used JCM 900s. One guy used the high gain channel and the other just cranked the clean channel and his tone always cut through and sounded full and rich. The guy using the high gain channel ended up only sounding fizzy and thin. Witnessed the same thing in another band where one guy played a Vox AC30 and the other a 900. During Sound check the 900 sounded like it was going to crush the Vox. But exactly the opposite was the case once the band started playing.
Marshall wins every time. They are made to sound best in the mix.
The Marshall has a high end “nastiness” to it that I really dig.....
That Marshall has survived 20+ other amps over the past 10 years. Everything from Bogners to Friedmans Fryette, 5150 III... best amp I’ve been exposed to.
Man Bogner sounds awesome except for that that fx loop noise.. You should try to contact Bogner for a fix if you haven't already? Marshall sounds awesome as well!!!
Well, the amp isn’t mine. I was going to buy it. Turns out some others have commented on this video with the same issue so I think it my be a design problem.
Sounds good!!!Who did the mod?
facebook.com/jonathan.wilder.5
That Marshall sounds amazing !, anyway you are comparing a very modded Marshall, not a standard one to the Bogner. The Bogner sounds good, but when compared to the Marshall, sounds with less presence and tone, the 800 has a rounder tone and eq. IMO
I did the comparison because it’s what I had. Obviously not a fair fight to compare anything to my Marshall being modded. The guy who did it still offers to mod and I thought maybe these videos would send work his way.
The other rational I had was the Marshall was modded to get that classic 80’s tone which were modded Marshall’s a lot of the time and so many amps try to recreate that tone to some degree so maybe that makes it fair? I don’t know. All I know is it’s the best amp I’ve come across and it beats amps that cost far more.
@@bhostermanI have the opportunity to buy one of the two amplifiers, the only thing that makes me doubt is the difference in weight and measurements between them, because regarding the sound there is no doubt the Marshall is the best.
@@bhosterman That' true .... by the way very nice playing, like it a lot !
What a shame because it does sound good and it looks pretty versatile with all the available gain channels. I would call Bogner and explain your situation. Maybe they have an answer to the issue and a mod that can be done to rectify the problem.
Well I would but this amp belongs to a friend of mine. I had cash in hand to buy it but this problem stopped me. The Friedman JJ junior and the Victory kraken did this too but maybe half as bad. Still no where acceptable. I could move the cables around the amp and the hum would decrease. Bad shielding I guess.
@@bhosterman and with Master Volume amps, you really need the loop for time based effects. Good luck to you and it was an excellent video. That Marshall is a keeper.
Horrible sound!! Marshall & all the copys!! Guess it's for 🦕 times ⏲️
I find B2 switch particularly on the red channel to add a lot of hiss/noise including from the effects loop
I had a 3534 for a few days and quickly returned it. Didn’t care for it at all. Judging by the amount of used ones I see for sale, I am not alone. Totally agree on effects loop too.
Funny you mention that, the guy who was going to sell it to me never lets amps go.