1) Lower your curve: With cheaper cards, you not only get started earlier, you have a higher chance of double-spelling later in the game to gain tempo, or having mana up for interaction. Specifically, run cheaper ramp and removal. Cut that Darksteel Ingot for a Llanowar Elves, cut that Krosan Grip for a Nature's Claim. 2) More card selection: Tutors aside (run more tutors!), cheap cards that let you tune your draws are the best cards in the format. Ponder/Preordain/Serum Visions/Brainstorm are the first 4 cards that go in any blue deck. Oath of Nissa is amazing. Sylvan Library and Sensei's Divining Top are known to be great, but even a 1-shot of their effects are worth it because they help you find the card you need when you need it. 3) More interaction: The vast majority of people run too little interaction. Counterspells, spot removal, wraths, whatever, just run more! Interaction is the entire reason Magic is even enjoyable, and it is important to always have something. How bad does it feel to have a bunch of haymakers going off and you've got a bunch of dumb ramp cards and fatties in your hand waiting for someone to kill you? The average person runs way too many bombs and way too little interaction.
@@bobdole8830 Every card he mentioned besides top and library are a couple of bucks or lower. Counterspells and removal are a buck or two, not every one is Force of Will. The blue card selection spells and Oath of Nissa are very affordable, as are llanowar elves and nature's claim.
@@bobdole8830 As Ye Li said, not every good card is pricey, and the only cards I mentioned that are more than a couple bucks are Library and Top. The average person can definitely stand to spend 10-20 total on a stack of solid upgrades, and that is by no means budget-busting unless you're flat broke (and shouldn't be worrying about buying cardboard in the first place). To be quite blunt though, yeah, if you want cards you don't currently own in order to tune up your deck, you're probably going to have to spend some money. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Excellent, well thought out discussion, I'd really like a followup talking about the reverse scenario, how to approach a new set for upgrades when you're looking to add cards first, instead of make cuts. That's where I tend to get bogged down, rather than the other way around.
Heather Kamp very true. My first deck I ever built, Neheb the Eternal, went through many iterations before settling upon something that works well. My biggest piece of advice: study and focus on the commander and his abilities, and how best to utilize them, and how soon to get him out. I now run far more mana ramp cards, mana dumps, removal, protection and extra combat phase spells than before, with tons of card advantage to give me options. Flashy X bombs and specialized artifacts are awesome, but not if you can’t play them.
@@inglebear84 The ramp part is something I had to actively tell my friend who said "2 mana rocks is enough" for an Obosh deck I have a bunch of 5 cmc things for win cons... Like, how am I supposed to get my commander out if I get stuck with no mana hits for several turns?
This was eye opening, especially the bit about mana curve and "what does this two drop actually *do* for me?" I feel like I had some serious lightbulb moments here.
"Show me your deck and pull out cards you think won't work" - me, as a proud clone tribal player, show appreciation to all the decks of the pod. And sometimes my appreciation overwhelms them all and I am the only one alive. :)
Loving that the sideboard conversation is persisting with this guest. Scaling decks up and down or tweaking decks so matches are in better conversation are a great way to improve the shared play experience.
@@sirquixano7638 If you're asking earnestly, the answer is probably yes, just not for the purpose of Muraganda Petroglyphs. If you are running the card as a Scarecrow and nothing more, it has no meaningful abilities beside its type. If you are leveraging the multifarious typing somehow, a suite of Changelings might be considered non-vanilla, but you would likely need to be playing ChangelingsAndLords.dec
I have an entire separate deckbox (and it's full!) for my Teysa Karlov maybeboard. I'm always swapping things in and out or adding cards I've just discovered.
I like the whole Commander Sideboard idea, but then there's the whole "is it still 15 cards?", "can we use Wishes?", etc etc But having an Unofficial Sideboard for power levels / different playgroups is a great idea! This is also a good place to put any realistic Un-cards that may fit your deck (Strategy, Schmategy here I come!).
My sideboard is a box of about 500 lands matter cards to build anything from mono green omnath, to 5 color golos, karametra landfall to gitrog cedh, it is my current only project when it comes to commander building, improving the contents of the box
I try to think of floors and ceilings when I'm tinkering with a deck. If a card has a really low floor, then I consider cutting it. If I don't have enough cards with a game-winning ceiling then I need to add more.
And the prof is right. switching decks with friends is a HUGE benefit. Sometimes you or your friends see or finds things and ways in the deck, you/they had never thought about before!
I am a commander player and I would say I play the format 80-90% of the time. I do get into standard and pioneer some. I really have enjoyed these commander talks. It's been very helpful.
I like the idea of proxy... try before you buy....or trade. With some of those big cards, they can be so fun to cast. Just like crazy win conditions, like revel in riches, thassa's oracle, lab man, countless others - they are just fun to pull off. Always good to see Olivia!
This is such a great a thorough video on the process. I few years back I found myself in a new state and as a standard player came across a play group that was mostly Commander (Lake Wales/Winter Haven, FL MTG Community!). I had a commander deck, which was not at all optimized nor had it seen much play (Alesha!). Needless to say, i was getting steamrolled constantly and consistently. Some of the players there were some of the best players I've ever had the pleasure of playing against thus far in my MTG experience. After a few months of research and discovery I found a decent build that helped me stay competitive and keep me interacting against any commanders. The process you describe in the video is exactly the process through which I went to refine and "fine tune" my build. THe profe is correct in saying that it is a journey of discovery and learning (paraphrasing?). The more fine tuning you do and the more you get input from others the more you learn about the game, your style of playing, synergy, mechanics, and interaction, among other things. This was a great video and reminded me of how great of an experience I had discovering and putting together a well-rounded deck for semi-cEDH (which I know is not a thing because you are either making people cry or you're wanting to set your deck on fire...no in between). Thanks for a great vid!
I'm thinking about taking Smothering Tithe out of my Alesha deck. It's rarely doing my any good, and the CMC often makes it very unattractive to cast in this deck. Thankfully, there's Dockside Extortionist as a card with a similar function that synergizes better with the rest of the deck, and I hadn't considered it until just now. Also swapping Fulminator Mage out for Avalanche Riders and trying to find a slot for Reconnaissance...
I know this is about commander but it’s really useful in pretty much any format. I have to ask those questions about cards in my standard decks all the time.
I have a lot of pet cards that I wish I played in some of my Commander decks, but I also love synergizing my decks too much to do so. The struggle is real 😑😂
From Blatant Thievery to Expropriate... what a jump. I'd say Clone Legion is another viable option in that category. And it's also good to get someone else's opinion on what cards to cut. Sometimes you play a card and feel great about it and think it's doing a whole lot, while from the other side of the table, they may not have even viewed it as a threat.
I find it helpful to sort out the cards in my deck be what they are supposed to do (e.g. I have 17 counterspells, 8 draw spells, 3 spells that give me no maximum hand size, etc.), and decide whether that is about the ration that I envisioned for my deck. If not, I will be like "I need a few more counterspells" and cut stuff of about the same CMC for them. I also find it really useful to do the opposite: find cards that I want to put in the deck and swap the in all at once and see whether I like the changes. This helps ensure that I will get a couple of them the first game.
I actually did this with my first deck, and it's ended up being quite different to what I started off with, and a lot stronger for it. I began with the tyranid precon, with the intention being to ramp hard, in order to get my X creatures out with token on, and just keep drawing and cycling. So at first I started using the token buff cards, and they worked fine enough, but the deck could still just choke. I had put in a copy of temur ascendancy and gurraks uprising at an early stage to help the cycling nature of it, but looked into increasing my consistency in those anthem style draws, and added more. I then had a re-examine of my commander, because I was rarely dipping into it, and found Kodama the east tree (and kraum, luwigs opus. He was right for the colours, and an inbuilt draw engine fits right at home for things I wanted), and realised since the point of my deck was to slam down big guys that do things, kodama helps me turbo out twice the number than before. The deck lost a lot of that initial precon, which is a shame. But now it effectively plays Kodama on turn 4, and turn 5 is spitting out powerful, large lads and drawing multiple cards every turn with ease. I've still managed to keep about 10 cards worth of instant response and interruption, and the deck feels a lot more tuned for it all.
Mortify instead of murder if it’s a viable option? That kind of fine tuning. I changed the tempting offer land ramp card for sylvan scrying, my group never takes the offer. So it always ends up being pay 3(G) fetch ,usually, krosan verge. Now I just pay 1(G) to fetch krosan verge.
The difference is that Tempt with Discovery puts it into play untapped, while Sylvan Scrying puts it into your hand. There's also Reap and Sow, which reads: 3G, Sorcery Choose one: - Tutor for a land and put it into play untapped - Destroy target land Entwine (do both if you pay (2) more). It's just a worst case Tempt with targeted land destruction stapled onto it.
Hell, if you're in WB, look at Vindicate. Same CMC, no restrictions on target, but comes at the cost of being Sorcery speed, which can be a problem in Commander.
Yeah if you're in a playgroup that gets cutthroat and takes advantage of you playing a learning game with your hand open you're probably in the wrong playgroup lol. Love the commander podcasts, keep it up 🙌🤙
Phantasmal Image was one of the strongest blue cards back when Primeval Titan and Sylvan Primordial were legal. Most decks had green and pretty much all green decks were running these. A Phantasmal Image was just a great way to ramp 2-3+ lands for 2 mana with lots of additional upsides. Since the bannings there are noticably less big ETB-effects in circulation on most tables. There is far more luck involved to get big value out of a clone these days. I have since taken out the Phantasmal Images from all of my blue decks. If these 2 green cards ever get unbanned, I will put them right back in though (:
This was a great discussion! You and Olivia play really well off of each other. Sakashima's Student is 30 bucks by the way because it was a planechase ninja so it was only printed twice lol
@@eatmoretidepods2499 This is so true. The flash pieces, including all the specific tutor, are about 60€, while the flash pieces themselves are about 10€
Speaking of playing other people’s decks, something me and my friends like to do is put all of our Commander decks together and then pick one at random to play. We usually to Alexa to pick a random number.
I play useful or cool cards. Alot. I don't go by a cards monetary value. Anyone else? My fav deck is a simic sea monster tribal card draw/mana engine with an obsurd amount of creature board controll. Also most cards are foil. I'm very proud of it and the professor has really helped my understanding of how to effectively build a strong deck since I began my magic journey
3:03 Just call it stropping lol, its what comes after sharpening, between sharpening, when the edge is already made, but you just want to align it a little better
-Make sure your cards have multi uses and synergize with other cards. -Make sure you have enough early ramp 1-3 cmc, 2cmc ramp being most preferable, if not have some early removal if your deck is not a fast deck. -Consider the probability of drawing that card you need most, if you have similar effect cards maybe add those as back ups. Storytime: Sylvan Reclamation (cmc:3FP, Instant, exile up too 2 artifacts or enchantments. Landcycling 2) My Ghave deck had gone infinite with creatures and colourless mana. I had a Zulaport Cut throat in my hand but no Swamps and I didn't play a land that turn. Syvlan reclamation was on the fence with my deck but in that moment the one card in all my deck redeemed me via Landcycling for a Swamp and winning me the game! LOL Recently Sylvan Reclamation saved me again VS Chulane. Buddy was just storming before t5, Sylvan reclamation'ed the Great Henge and Equilibrium: Exiled; game quickly changed after that.
I broke my head a thousand times about streamlining and what i learned is: you have to play to See if it works the way intended! You can Analyse all your cards for weeks, but some games Show you, what really works. And when testing, try testing it against a similar Power Level or it will get harder to test, what you want. I especially find it sometimes hard to streamline, when you dont try to streamline with obvious staples but with fitting cards from your own Pool, because,... Well you want to use your Pool or want to try New stuff.
One thing not mentioned that can help tremendously when you're considering a 1-for-1 switch of cards is to keep the card you're thinking about dropping in your deck, but take the card you're considering and put it on a small slip that you slide into the sleeve. Using Prof.'s example, he'd keep the Phantasmal Image in, but write "Sakashima's Student" (and possibly its rules text too for reference) on a slip of paper inside the sleeve. That way, it becomes real obvious when you draw it or have it sitting in hand which card you'd prefer to have on a case-by-case basis. Using slips like this can also make it easier on your memory so you don't have to remember which cards you swapped out for which other ones, and it can act as a "before proxy" step where you consider if the card even has worth before putting forth the effort to even proxy it first.
Always split your commander cards into 3 piles when tuning a deck! Pile 1 = NEVER cut (cards you will never take out) Pile 2 = The core cards you need but could replace if you find something better Pile 3 = The remaining cards I freely swap and change with no core effect on my game
That is an interesting way to do it. I have never done this myself, but it does look like it would make for a decent baseline especially for newer deckbuilders
@@B1gLupu depends on the deck If you remove urza from a high synergy urza deck you now need to rebuild the entire deck There are absolutely some cards you cant cut from some decks while keeping the identity of the deck
One of the best examples of 'this is a good card but' and 'am I getting the amount of value I could for the cost I'm paying' I usually give people is Insurrection vs Mob Rule when you can only slot one in a deck. Insurrection is great. It can win games when cast, or at minimum take out the scariest player on the table and open the game up for you to close it out. I've done it, I've seen other people do it. Problem is it costs 8 cmc with triple red. For that much mana I kinda don't want to have a good chance of winning the game so long as the board state is set up for Insurrection to capitalize on it; and that I have to both resolve the spell and make it through a combat. If I'm spending that much I want the win to be more assured and I want it to be based of what I'm doing, not what my opponents are doing. Insurrection is *best* at winning games you are probably losing badly, and for which a 4 cmc wrath (or better yet a one sided wrath) would be similarly advantageous, if not quite as good. Mob Rule, on the other hand, costs 6 cmc with only double red. Some might argue 2cmc and 1 less colored mana is trival but in terms of a) curving into it and b) when it generally lands, it is both a) significantly easier to get 6 consistently vs 8 and 2 red vs 3, and b) Turn ~5-6 is often as or more relevant time for a mass threaten effect than turn ~7-8 in my experience because the board state that is a problem in turns 4-6 is usually going to have people trying to deal with it by turns 5-7, leaving you with board to steal. I've had games where I knew I wanted to Insurrection in a turn or so because it would win the game or just about, only to someone else get nervous about the board and wipe it before I could cast. Mob Rule tends to be timed better and I rare end up staring at an empty board with a now dead card because I couldn't curve into it before someone wrathed, this is especially true if you have mana sinks that essentially tax most or all of your turns (I play Mob Rule in my Yasova deck for example, which most turns have a 3 mana effective tax on them). Finally, almost every single time that I resolve a Mob Rule, it is nearly as good as an Insurrection; the problem creatures are very often either a few creatures that are all too big or a pile of creatures that are small. The last 3 times I cast Mob Rule it was as game winning as most Insurrection's I've ever cast
The reason I like cards like Sigarda's Aid is the same reason I like Kodama's Reach. I play Cultivate, so I'll play two. I'll play Sword of Feast and Famine, I'd even play it at 3W.
I'm actually building a combo elves deck that I'm making a side board for. The deck can combo as early as turn three but to make it more fun more casual tables im putting in a side board to slow it down
Re: Blatant Thievery vs Expropriate. Expropriate is the more powerful card. But one that I would argue is bumping up your deck a tier of power by being in your deck. And earlier on it was mentioned on trying to tune a deck within its target power level. Heh, this podcast is relevant to recent work on decks. And I swear I've got 1-2 slots in some decks where I just keep sticking different cards there. The card might come up and is meh, but I also can't figure out what I need. Not some glaring missing card, not some glaring need, just... this card doesn't bring me joy and isn't impactful.And same for the next card slotted in and the next one. And since it's not a glaring omission, it's tried out as a sample slot for random other cards at certain mana costs that I already have so it's not an actual commitment either.
Hear. I usually play Blatant Thievery over Expropriate in my level 9 UGr deck, because Expropriate is so disgusting that it's frowned upon even in my strongest non-cEDH playgroups, so much I kinda wish it would be banned (not strongly enough to crusade for its banning, but you get the point). It's way too much of an I-win-button, even at 9 mana. At the worst, Thievery plays the important role of removal for multiple permanents in an UG deck, which by nature usually has that weakness.
Played edh for like 7 years now and the only person I knew who ever played Iona was me, and that was in Sisay Fetch Legendaries as an end to a curve. She rarely had an impact at all.
I play commander and only that, yet I brew decks that would be standard legal with standard legal cards, I even made a Boro's colored Heroic style deck, the seen card are the hero cards in theros beyond death, infact the whole deck uses only theros beyond death cards, I feel like it looks good enough, it has 3 copies of that uncommon Hoplite so I can produce an army of human soldier tokens, the deck has a few cards that can target something so I can target a hero to give all my creatures a buff, and the deck wants to hit hard.
For people who would like to make changes to a deck, make a deck list with a "swap board" on the side. In the swap board, pair the card you're putting in with the card you swapped out. If you like the change, make the change to your deck list.
Yes. All this. There are cards I love that were mostly auto-includes like Leyline of Anticipation. I really had to sit down and look at how many cards would I actually play or want to on other people’s turns. How many of those cards don’t already have flash or aren’t instants? If there weren’t enough left, it had to go.
once you get to 5 mana+, just like in other formats, you really need to start looking at cards that change the table dynamics significantly, or even threaten to outright end the game.
@@apjapki Well, I was more thinking 6 CMC+, but even at 5 CMC, you want something that has significant board impact, not just "goodstuffs." But yeah, considering I'm tuning my Alela deck to be top end casual/low end competitive, I do want something that can change game dynamics significantly at higher mana costs, as A) if it's taking up a significant chunk of my mana, its value better be more than the opportunity cost of not having multiple tokens from cheaper spells, and B) I can go infinite with Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek for a total CMC of 4, and I can add 2 more CMC with Time Sieve to take infinite turns and win; anything more expensive needs to compete with that (or help it turn from an infinite combo to a win, like Tezzeret can)
It’s interesting to me that people struggle to cut cards. I’ve been known to shuffle the deck back into my collection and start from scratch again. I do archive my decks before I do so, but I usually don’t need to check old versions because the refresh is better
28:50 this is good up to a certain extent I guess but not sure I really agree. Misplays are part of the game. If anything, taking advantage of someone's misplays and punishing them for it will make them far less likely to ever make that mistake again.
Another great way is to use 3-5 pet cards as replacement for yur best cards when you want to change your deck's power. In my Teysa deck I have Revel In Ritches/Smothering Tithe and of course Bolas's Citadel as my best cards, But I will swap them for Teysa Envoy of Ghosts/Serra Angel & Liliana Heretical Healer if I want to play with a lesser power Strategy
I like how the majority of creators and community of MTG for the most part is aware of the cost of MTG and take about budget friendly cards/straight up say you shouldn't spend a rent payment on a deck
Ive found when this happens to me personally, its over adherence to flavor, which can usually just be fixed with a few swaps to more optimal swaps. Dropping 1-2 tutors or carddraw in or sometimes gets you past the stall point.
I know this is a late comment but I feel like the biggest difference between the top tier decks and lower tier decks are tutors. In a singleton 99 card format you're not going to have enough cards with the same effects to consistently get what you're looking for, even with some obscene card draw, unless you have tutors. Running Edgar Markov and need Sanguine Bond? Tutor. Running a combo deck and need a piece? Tutor. Trying to stop an opponent from going off with the right boardwipe? Tutor.
Hey, where can we find the Prof.'s decks online? I'd love to go over them and see "hey why did he do that? how does this synergy work?" and maybe, MAYBE one day I'll get to recommend a card he didn't try yet 🤔
If your deck needs to get on the board early before opponents can set up defenses, cheap creatures might be needed, but they ideally should have evasion and have power = CMC with possible exceptions for cards with excellent abilities like looter il-kor and qasali pridemage. And you should have payoff for having attackers or creatures on board to keep momentum. The more strong/competitive expected opponents decks are the more ability to play cards early, at instant speed, or play multiple things in a turn matters relative to impact per card. Also if you're not getting your low-CMC proactive stuff out early as you want to in 3+ color decks because you don't have enough Khan's fetches and shocklands (or lots of multi-color mana dorks in a base-green deck), in you may be able to pull them from other 1-2 color or slower, more reactive 3+ color decks that don't need them as much and could live with panorama/pain lands and be fine playing cards with more generic vs. colored mana requirements. Also beware of using too many payoff cards which are great once you've met their conditions but are not good early. Finally, when you have an effect you like, see if you can find a way to get that same effect at instant speed or have a second effect or alternative mode that makes sure it will be relevant in more situations.
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
Speaking of Commander, learn MTG - How To Build Any 1 Color EDH / Commander Mana Base here: ruclips.net/video/12BYWdGK9-0/видео.html
So, does 37 basic isn't the best way to go?
@@yooigomierdal Depends on if you run Back to Basics or Tsabo's Web, no doubt
Me: *take cards out*
*puts cards back in*
*contemplate on removing basic lands*
You should just get rid of all of your basic lands. If they were any good, they would have a higher price.
@@archmagusofevil thats how mtg works, money makes cards good. Get rid of that trash
William Zhang 😂🤣 exactly my pain.
this hits me hard. hahaha
@@archmagusofevil funny
Should honestly be called "Best socks in the game podcast"
Looks like I need to find something besides my Costco puma socks! 🤣🤣
This should be called the "Dressing in the dark podcast, " tbh.
nice sock fetish video right here.
1) Lower your curve: With cheaper cards, you not only get started earlier, you have a higher chance of double-spelling later in the game to gain tempo, or having mana up for interaction. Specifically, run cheaper ramp and removal. Cut that Darksteel Ingot for a Llanowar Elves, cut that Krosan Grip for a Nature's Claim.
2) More card selection: Tutors aside (run more tutors!), cheap cards that let you tune your draws are the best cards in the format. Ponder/Preordain/Serum Visions/Brainstorm are the first 4 cards that go in any blue deck. Oath of Nissa is amazing. Sylvan Library and Sensei's Divining Top are known to be great, but even a 1-shot of their effects are worth it because they help you find the card you need when you need it.
3) More interaction: The vast majority of people run too little interaction. Counterspells, spot removal, wraths, whatever, just run more! Interaction is the entire reason Magic is even enjoyable, and it is important to always have something. How bad does it feel to have a bunch of haymakers going off and you've got a bunch of dumb ramp cards and fatties in your hand waiting for someone to kill you? The average person runs way too many bombs and way too little interaction.
So: spend more money
@@bobdole8830 Every card he mentioned besides top and library are a couple of bucks or lower. Counterspells and removal are a buck or two, not every one is Force of Will. The blue card selection spells and Oath of Nissa are very affordable, as are llanowar elves and nature's claim.
@@bobdole8830 As Ye Li said, not every good card is pricey, and the only cards I mentioned that are more than a couple bucks are Library and Top. The average person can definitely stand to spend 10-20 total on a stack of solid upgrades, and that is by no means budget-busting unless you're flat broke (and shouldn't be worrying about buying cardboard in the first place).
To be quite blunt though, yeah, if you want cards you don't currently own in order to tune up your deck, you're probably going to have to spend some money. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3. Yes. Yes. Yes! Don’t be afraid of 1 for 1’s. Not everything needs to be a wrath. But do have those wraths.
I grab every copy of llanowar elves, elvish mytic, and arbor elf that I can.
Excellent, well thought out discussion, I'd really like a followup talking about the reverse scenario, how to approach a new set for upgrades when you're looking to add cards first, instead of make cuts. That's where I tend to get bogged down, rather than the other way around.
Heather Kamp very true. My first deck I ever built, Neheb the Eternal, went through many iterations before settling upon something that works well.
My biggest piece of advice: study and focus on the commander and his abilities, and how best to utilize them, and how soon to get him out. I now run far more mana ramp cards, mana dumps, removal, protection and extra combat phase spells than before, with tons of card advantage to give me options.
Flashy X bombs and specialized artifacts are awesome, but not if you can’t play them.
@@inglebear84 The ramp part is something I had to actively tell my friend who said "2 mana rocks is enough" for an Obosh deck I have a bunch of 5 cmc things for win cons... Like, how am I supposed to get my commander out if I get stuck with no mana hits for several turns?
This was eye opening, especially the bit about mana curve and "what does this two drop actually *do* for me?" I feel like I had some serious lightbulb moments here.
Great episode! I always love Olivia's takes and spirit in regard to the format. Honestly one of the best guests on any commander themed show
right? Love the episodes of Game Knights with her as well
"Show me your deck and pull out cards you think won't work" - me, as a proud clone tribal player, show appreciation to all the decks of the pod. And sometimes my appreciation overwhelms them all and I am the only one alive. :)
Loving that the sideboard conversation is persisting with this guest. Scaling decks up and down or tweaking decks so matches are in better conversation are a great way to improve the shared play experience.
I'm really happy I love when Olivia shows for any magic video. It's just nice to here her talk about commander.
Me: Starts sweating with my all vanilla creature deck.
But I love Gigantasaurus
well, you need to put muraganda petroglyphs somewhere...
@@m1gr3nA this card is amazing. Indeed this needs a home!
@@williamstewart1883 On selvala :D
@@sirquixano7638 If you're asking earnestly, the answer is probably yes, just not for the purpose of Muraganda Petroglyphs. If you are running the card as a Scarecrow and nothing more, it has no meaningful abilities beside its type.
If you are leveraging the multifarious typing somehow, a suite of Changelings might be considered non-vanilla, but you would likely need to be playing ChangelingsAndLords.dec
Prof: I'm questioning my devotion to blue.
Best quote. 5:55
I have an entire separate deckbox (and it's full!) for my Teysa Karlov maybeboard. I'm always swapping things in and out or adding cards I've just discovered.
Im loving all these guests!
I like the whole Commander Sideboard idea, but then there's the whole "is it still 15 cards?", "can we use Wishes?", etc etc
But having an Unofficial Sideboard for power levels / different playgroups is a great idea! This is also a good place to put any realistic Un-cards that may fit your deck (Strategy, Schmategy here I come!).
One card sideboard would be one card too much lol
I love the power up/down sideboard
My sideboard is a box of about 500 lands matter cards to build anything from mono green omnath, to 5 color golos, karametra landfall to gitrog cedh, it is my current only project when it comes to commander building, improving the contents of the box
Ooh, that’s real spicy, what do you do to keep track of the plethora of cards you could toss in?
I try to think of floors and ceilings when I'm tinkering with a deck. If a card has a really low floor, then I consider cutting it. If I don't have enough cards with a game-winning ceiling then I need to add more.
And the prof is right. switching decks with friends is a HUGE benefit. Sometimes you or your friends see or finds things and ways in the deck, you/they had never thought about before!
I've learned so much from watching your videos Professor. Thank you for all that you do.
I am a commander player and I would say I play the format 80-90% of the time. I do get into standard and pioneer some. I really have enjoyed these commander talks. It's been very helpful.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who builds that way, Olivia.
I enjoy this series and the guests you've gotten so far. Very relevant and interesting conversations
I like the idea of proxy... try before you buy....or trade. With some of those big cards, they can be so fun to cast. Just like crazy win conditions, like revel in riches, thassa's oracle, lab man, countless others - they are just fun to pull off. Always good to see Olivia!
This is such a great a thorough video on the process. I few years back I found myself in a new state and as a standard player came across a play group that was mostly Commander (Lake Wales/Winter Haven, FL MTG Community!). I had a commander deck, which was not at all optimized nor had it seen much play (Alesha!).
Needless to say, i was getting steamrolled constantly and consistently. Some of the players there were some of the best players I've ever had the pleasure of playing against thus far in my MTG experience.
After a few months of research and discovery I found a decent build that helped me stay competitive and keep me interacting against any commanders. The process you describe in the video is exactly the process through which I went to refine and "fine tune" my build.
THe profe is correct in saying that it is a journey of discovery and learning (paraphrasing?). The more fine tuning you do and the more you get input from others the more you learn about the game, your style of playing, synergy, mechanics, and interaction, among other things.
This was a great video and reminded me of how great of an experience I had discovering and putting together a well-rounded deck for semi-cEDH (which I know is not a thing because you are either making people cry or you're wanting to set your deck on fire...no in between).
Thanks for a great vid!
Olivia: Just look for the videos with me, they're the best.
Me: Truer words have never been spoken.
I'm thinking about taking Smothering Tithe out of my Alesha deck. It's rarely doing my any good, and the CMC often makes it very unattractive to cast in this deck.
Thankfully, there's Dockside Extortionist as a card with a similar function that synergizes better with the rest of the deck, and I hadn't considered it until just now.
Also swapping Fulminator Mage out for Avalanche Riders and trying to find a slot for Reconnaissance...
I know this is about commander but it’s really useful in pretty much any format. I have to ask those questions about cards in my standard decks all the time.
I have a lot of pet cards that I wish I played in some of my Commander decks, but I also love synergizing my decks too much to do so. The struggle is real 😑😂
From Blatant Thievery to Expropriate... what a jump. I'd say Clone Legion is another viable option in that category.
And it's also good to get someone else's opinion on what cards to cut. Sometimes you play a card and feel great about it and think it's doing a whole lot, while from the other side of the table, they may not have even viewed it as a threat.
I find it helpful to sort out the cards in my deck be what they are supposed to do (e.g. I have 17 counterspells, 8 draw spells, 3 spells that give me no maximum hand size, etc.), and decide whether that is about the ration that I envisioned for my deck. If not, I will be like "I need a few more counterspells" and cut stuff of about the same CMC for them. I also find it really useful to do the opposite: find cards that I want to put in the deck and swap the in all at once and see whether I like the changes. This helps ensure that I will get a couple of them the first game.
To be fair, Jeremy Noell does love his Villainous Wealth.
Always mill Justin, always
I actually did this with my first deck, and it's ended up being quite different to what I started off with, and a lot stronger for it. I began with the tyranid precon, with the intention being to ramp hard, in order to get my X creatures out with token on, and just keep drawing and cycling. So at first I started using the token buff cards, and they worked fine enough, but the deck could still just choke. I had put in a copy of temur ascendancy and gurraks uprising at an early stage to help the cycling nature of it, but looked into increasing my consistency in those anthem style draws, and added more. I then had a re-examine of my commander, because I was rarely dipping into it, and found Kodama the east tree (and kraum, luwigs opus. He was right for the colours, and an inbuilt draw engine fits right at home for things I wanted), and realised since the point of my deck was to slam down big guys that do things, kodama helps me turbo out twice the number than before.
The deck lost a lot of that initial precon, which is a shame. But now it effectively plays Kodama on turn 4, and turn 5 is spitting out powerful, large lads and drawing multiple cards every turn with ease. I've still managed to keep about 10 cards worth of instant response and interruption, and the deck feels a lot more tuned for it all.
Mortify instead of murder if it’s a viable option? That kind of fine tuning.
I changed the tempting offer land ramp card for sylvan scrying, my group never takes the offer. So it always ends up being pay 3(G) fetch ,usually, krosan verge. Now I just pay 1(G) to fetch krosan verge.
Gotta love modal cards.
The difference is that Tempt with Discovery puts it into play untapped, while Sylvan Scrying puts it into your hand. There's also Reap and Sow, which reads:
3G, Sorcery
Choose one:
- Tutor for a land and put it into play untapped
- Destroy target land
Entwine (do both if you pay (2) more).
It's just a worst case Tempt with targeted land destruction stapled onto it.
but my murder foil card looks so nice:o
or you know, Anguished Unmaking since in a 40 life format that's not really that relevant
Hell, if you're in WB, look at Vindicate. Same CMC, no restrictions on target, but comes at the cost of being Sorcery speed, which can be a problem in Commander.
Yeah if you're in a playgroup that gets cutthroat and takes advantage of you playing a learning game with your hand open you're probably in the wrong playgroup lol. Love the commander podcasts, keep it up 🙌🤙
Yay! Podcast todayyy. Im digging these 1 off podcasts about commander keep em coming
^ What he said
Sakashima's Student is, indeed, going for a lot
Phantasmal Image was one of the strongest blue cards back when Primeval Titan and Sylvan Primordial were legal. Most decks had green and pretty much all green decks were running these. A Phantasmal Image was just a great way to ramp 2-3+ lands for 2 mana with lots of additional upsides.
Since the bannings there are noticably less big ETB-effects in circulation on most tables. There is far more luck involved to get big value out of a clone these days. I have since taken out the Phantasmal Images from all of my blue decks. If these 2 green cards ever get unbanned, I will put them right back in though (:
This was a great discussion! You and Olivia play really well off of each other. Sakashima's Student is 30 bucks by the way because it was a planechase ninja so it was only printed twice lol
The best commander deck have cards that synergies with your strategy, but also have answers for the board state that also support your deck.
How to streamline your decks
Step 1: play flash hulk variant
Step 2: win
P.s. just leaving this here for anyone on the CAG or RC to see
step 3 is hopefully: loose your money because flash gets banned
Funny enough flash pieces are relatively cheap and go in a shell that's built around staples in the format.
@@redstonepro5412 Hopefully
@@eatmoretidepods2499 This is so true. The flash pieces, including all the specific tutor, are about 60€, while the flash pieces themselves are about 10€
It’s so true, sad, and funny 🤔😢😂
No one is talking about it because it's completely off topic but, Olivia's personality and smile are enchanting!
Love these podcasts about Commander Prof. Keep up the awesome work!
Another great installment Prof (and Olivia)! Excited to see more of these collaborative podcasts from the various Commander content creators out there
Great conversation you two! Thanks a lot!
Speaking of playing other people’s decks, something me and my friends like to do is put all of our Commander decks together and then pick one at random to play. We usually to Alexa to pick a random number.
That's always a great time
you and Olivia have such nice voices to listen to as a podcast
Great episode Professor! I hope to see and play Commander with you AND Olivia at MagicFest Reno this weekend
Honestly, the fact that they're not wearing shoes is a little relaxing and comforting.
I play useful or cool cards. Alot. I don't go by a cards monetary value. Anyone else? My fav deck is a simic sea monster tribal card draw/mana engine with an obsurd amount of creature board controll. Also most cards are foil. I'm very proud of it and the professor has really helped my understanding of how to effectively build a strong deck since I began my magic journey
i’m lovin this new podcast series
I think The Shoebox Archives would make for a great MtG channel/podcast title
3:03 Just call it stropping lol, its what comes after sharpening, between sharpening, when the edge is already made, but you just want to align it a little better
Thanks for the amazing video prof. Olivia is always a pleasure to listen to.
-Make sure your cards have multi uses and synergize with other cards.
-Make sure you have enough early ramp 1-3 cmc, 2cmc ramp being most preferable, if not have some early removal if your deck is not a fast deck.
-Consider the probability of drawing that card you need most, if you have similar effect cards maybe add those as back ups.
Storytime: Sylvan Reclamation (cmc:3FP, Instant, exile up too 2 artifacts or enchantments. Landcycling 2) My Ghave deck had gone infinite with creatures and colourless mana. I had a Zulaport Cut throat in my hand but no Swamps and I didn't play a land that turn. Syvlan reclamation was on the fence with my deck but in that moment the one card in all my deck redeemed me via Landcycling for a Swamp and winning me the game! LOL Recently Sylvan Reclamation saved me again VS Chulane. Buddy was just storming before t5, Sylvan reclamation'ed the Great Henge and Equilibrium: Exiled; game quickly changed after that.
The end skit is hilarious. “High-interest? Loan? Mister?” Howling over here, so funny
I broke my head a thousand times about streamlining and what i learned is: you have to play to See if it works the way intended! You can Analyse all your cards for weeks, but some games Show you, what really works. And when testing, try testing it against a similar Power Level or it will get harder to test, what you want.
I especially find it sometimes hard to streamline, when you dont try to streamline with obvious staples but with fitting cards from your own Pool, because,... Well you want to use your Pool or want to try New stuff.
I just started making Commander decks and I'm very grateful that you made this video :) thank you
"I'm questioning my devotion to blue"
happens to all of us at one point, Prof
Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior LSV?
You need to question it whenever you want to play Thassa.
You talked about pet cards and I have pet card cycle scry lands, I love them they fix mana they’re digging into your deck and they’re always useful
SirQuixano ah yes but I was more talking about the temples but that’s another good one I forgot about
Hey Prof, just so you know, I don't think the link to Olivia's gameplay channel made it into the description
grrr, yooooouttuuuuuuube! I'll fix that
I don't even play MTG but I love the Professors videos.
One thing not mentioned that can help tremendously when you're considering a 1-for-1 switch of cards is to keep the card you're thinking about dropping in your deck, but take the card you're considering and put it on a small slip that you slide into the sleeve. Using Prof.'s example, he'd keep the Phantasmal Image in, but write "Sakashima's Student" (and possibly its rules text too for reference) on a slip of paper inside the sleeve. That way, it becomes real obvious when you draw it or have it sitting in hand which card you'd prefer to have on a case-by-case basis. Using slips like this can also make it easier on your memory so you don't have to remember which cards you swapped out for which other ones, and it can act as a "before proxy" step where you consider if the card even has worth before putting forth the effort to even proxy it first.
I'm a firm believer of the comma der "sidebosrd". I also am a firm believer of a commander sideboard lol. I just wanna play deathwish man...
Quite the informative video. You two play well off eachother. Good job!
Enjoyable and informative. Great as always professor.
I love these podcasts, keep them coming.
Damn Prof looks young here! I've only been watching newer videos so this was a shock
Great sock game by the both of you 🔥🔥🔥
Always split your commander cards into 3 piles when tuning a deck!
Pile 1 = NEVER cut (cards you will never take out)
Pile 2 = The core cards you need but could replace if you find something better
Pile 3 = The remaining cards I freely swap and change with no core effect on my game
That is an interesting way to do it. I have never done this myself, but it does look like it would make for a decent baseline especially for newer deckbuilders
There is no Pile 1. Everything is replaceable, including the commander.
@@B1gLupu An interesting distillation of the difference between the casual and competitive mindsets.
@@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicos Thanks :)
@@B1gLupu depends on the deck
If you remove urza from a high synergy urza deck you now need to rebuild the entire deck
There are absolutely some cards you cant cut from some decks while keeping the identity of the deck
One of the best examples of 'this is a good card but' and 'am I getting the amount of value I could for the cost I'm paying' I usually give people is Insurrection vs Mob Rule when you can only slot one in a deck.
Insurrection is great. It can win games when cast, or at minimum take out the scariest player on the table and open the game up for you to close it out. I've done it, I've seen other people do it. Problem is it costs 8 cmc with triple red. For that much mana I kinda don't want to have a good chance of winning the game so long as the board state is set up for Insurrection to capitalize on it; and that I have to both resolve the spell and make it through a combat. If I'm spending that much I want the win to be more assured and I want it to be based of what I'm doing, not what my opponents are doing. Insurrection is *best* at winning games you are probably losing badly, and for which a 4 cmc wrath (or better yet a one sided wrath) would be similarly advantageous, if not quite as good.
Mob Rule, on the other hand, costs 6 cmc with only double red. Some might argue 2cmc and 1 less colored mana is trival but in terms of a) curving into it and b) when it generally lands, it is both a) significantly easier to get 6 consistently vs 8 and 2 red vs 3, and b) Turn ~5-6 is often as or more relevant time for a mass threaten effect than turn ~7-8 in my experience because the board state that is a problem in turns 4-6 is usually going to have people trying to deal with it by turns 5-7, leaving you with board to steal. I've had games where I knew I wanted to Insurrection in a turn or so because it would win the game or just about, only to someone else get nervous about the board and wipe it before I could cast. Mob Rule tends to be timed better and I rare end up staring at an empty board with a now dead card because I couldn't curve into it before someone wrathed, this is especially true if you have mana sinks that essentially tax most or all of your turns (I play Mob Rule in my Yasova deck for example, which most turns have a 3 mana effective tax on them). Finally, almost every single time that I resolve a Mob Rule, it is nearly as good as an Insurrection; the problem creatures are very often either a few creatures that are all too big or a pile of creatures that are small. The last 3 times I cast Mob Rule it was as game winning as most Insurrection's I've ever cast
The reason I like cards like Sigarda's Aid is the same reason I like Kodama's Reach. I play Cultivate, so I'll play two. I'll play Sword of Feast and Famine, I'd even play it at 3W.
I'm actually building a combo elves deck that I'm making a side board for. The deck can combo as early as turn three but to make it more fun more casual tables im putting in a side board to slow it down
Re: Blatant Thievery vs Expropriate. Expropriate is the more powerful card. But one that I would argue is bumping up your deck a tier of power by being in your deck. And earlier on it was mentioned on trying to tune a deck within its target power level.
Heh, this podcast is relevant to recent work on decks. And I swear I've got 1-2 slots in some decks where I just keep sticking different cards there. The card might come up and is meh, but I also can't figure out what I need. Not some glaring missing card, not some glaring need, just... this card doesn't bring me joy and isn't impactful.And same for the next card slotted in and the next one. And since it's not a glaring omission, it's tried out as a sample slot for random other cards at certain mana costs that I already have so it's not an actual commitment either.
Hear. I usually play Blatant Thievery over Expropriate in my level 9 UGr deck, because Expropriate is so disgusting that it's frowned upon even in my strongest non-cEDH playgroups, so much I kinda wish it would be banned (not strongly enough to crusade for its banning, but you get the point). It's way too much of an I-win-button, even at 9 mana. At the worst, Thievery plays the important role of removal for multiple permanents in an UG deck, which by nature usually has that weakness.
This would’ve been an awesome live stream
Olivia: we cant just ban cards just because we dont like them
Iona: *am I a joke to you?*
Played edh for like 7 years now and the only person I knew who ever played Iona was me, and that was in Sisay Fetch Legendaries as an end to a curve. She rarely had an impact at all.
I play commander and only that, yet I brew decks that would be standard legal with standard legal cards, I even made a Boro's colored Heroic style deck, the seen card are the hero cards in theros beyond death, infact the whole deck uses only theros beyond death cards, I feel like it looks good enough, it has 3 copies of that uncommon Hoplite so I can produce an army of human soldier tokens, the deck has a few cards that can target something so I can target a hero to give all my creatures a buff, and the deck wants to hit hard.
For people who would like to make changes to a deck, make a deck list with a "swap board" on the side. In the swap board, pair the card you're putting in with the card you swapped out. If you like the change, make the change to your deck list.
prominently displayed on bookshelf: _Chandra_
also on bookshelf, inconspicuously conspicuous: *China*
*"Sick* _Burn"_ - Serendipity
Yes. All this. There are cards I love that were mostly auto-includes like Leyline of Anticipation. I really had to sit down and look at how many cards would I actually play or want to on other people’s turns. How many of those cards don’t already have flash or aren’t instants? If there weren’t enough left, it had to go.
You're never convincing me to take Serra Angel out of my boros stax deck, professor. She's killed too many people.
From experience, some cards aren't worth the mana cost, especially when you start getting around 5-6 mana.
Funny. I associate 'not worth it' with 3 and 4 cmc creatures. You are usually overpaying for small bodies and marginal abilities.
Funny. I associate 'not worth it' with 3 and 4 cmc creatures. You are usually overpaying for small bodies and marginal abilities.
once you get to 5 mana+, just like in other formats, you really need to start looking at cards that change the table dynamics significantly, or even threaten to outright end the game.
@@flametitan100 At 5 cmc? Your meta is fast! ;)
@@apjapki Well, I was more thinking 6 CMC+, but even at 5 CMC, you want something that has significant board impact, not just "goodstuffs."
But yeah, considering I'm tuning my Alela deck to be top end casual/low end competitive, I do want something that can change game dynamics significantly at higher mana costs, as A) if it's taking up a significant chunk of my mana, its value better be more than the opportunity cost of not having multiple tokens from cheaper spells, and B) I can go infinite with Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek for a total CMC of 4, and I can add 2 more CMC with Time Sieve to take infinite turns and win; anything more expensive needs to compete with that (or help it turn from an infinite combo to a win, like Tezzeret can)
It’s interesting to me that people struggle to cut cards. I’ve been known to shuffle the deck back into my collection and start from scratch again. I do archive my decks before I do so, but I usually don’t need to check old versions because the refresh is better
28:50 this is good up to a certain extent I guess but not sure I really agree. Misplays are part of the game. If anything, taking advantage of someone's misplays and punishing them for it will make them far less likely to ever make that mistake again.
You should have that guy from cure for the common game on your show. He is all about commander.
Love the information that you share
I always learn something here. Thanks!
I love ophiomancer too. Oger Slumlord is similar. Visit A & C when you come to Toronto.
Another great way is to use 3-5 pet cards as replacement for yur best cards when you want to change your deck's power. In my Teysa deck I have Revel In Ritches/Smothering Tithe and of course Bolas's Citadel as my best cards, But I will swap them for Teysa Envoy of Ghosts/Serra Angel & Liliana Heretical Healer if I want to play with a lesser power Strategy
I like how the majority of creators and community of MTG for the most part is aware of the cost of MTG and take about budget friendly cards/straight up say you shouldn't spend a rent payment on a deck
Ive found when this happens to me personally, its over adherence to flavor, which can usually just be fixed with a few swaps to more optimal swaps. Dropping 1-2 tutors or carddraw in or sometimes gets you past the stall point.
This is me interacting for the algorithm.
Use cockatrice on pc, Ita free and has every card from every set so you can play test full decks for any format and it's a great community
I know this is a late comment but I feel like the biggest difference between the top tier decks and lower tier decks are tutors. In a singleton 99 card format you're not going to have enough cards with the same effects to consistently get what you're looking for, even with some obscene card draw, unless you have tutors. Running Edgar Markov and need Sanguine Bond? Tutor. Running a combo deck and need a piece? Tutor. Trying to stop an opponent from going off with the right boardwipe? Tutor.
Put Olivia's name in the title so she gets more recognition!!!
Hey, where can we find the Prof.'s decks online? I'd love to go over them and see "hey why did he do that? how does this synergy work?" and maybe, MAYBE one day I'll get to recommend a card he didn't try yet 🤔
If your deck needs to get on the board early before opponents can set up defenses, cheap creatures might be needed, but they ideally should have evasion and have power = CMC with possible exceptions for cards with excellent abilities like looter il-kor and qasali pridemage. And you should have payoff for having attackers or creatures on board to keep momentum. The more strong/competitive expected opponents decks are the more ability to play cards early, at instant speed, or play multiple things in a turn matters relative to impact per card.
Also if you're not getting your low-CMC proactive stuff out early as you want to in 3+ color decks because you don't have enough Khan's fetches and shocklands (or lots of multi-color mana dorks in a base-green deck), in you may be able to pull them from other 1-2 color or slower, more reactive 3+ color decks that don't need them as much and could live with panorama/pain lands and be fine playing cards with more generic vs. colored mana requirements. Also beware of using too many payoff cards which are great once you've met their conditions but are not good early.
Finally, when you have an effect you like, see if you can find a way to get that same effect at instant speed or have a second effect or alternative mode that makes sure it will be relevant in more situations.
Though they did address it, a lot of this video is, "Why not play expensive cards in your theme?"
It's not exactly secret tech.
Ah yes, thank you for helping me answer the quintessential question whenever I buy a new card for one of my decks; "Which card do I take out"
Now I want to see a video of all the big mtg people talking about their pet cards
Ok is it just me or are the Prof's socks always awesome?
Always.
@@TolarianCommunityCollege Respect.
This was one of my favorite videos on commander, thanks!