Why Does Standard Keep Failing? Untitled MTG Podcast #18 (feat. TheAsianAvenger of MTGGoldfish)
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- Опубликовано: 23 сен 2020
- Be sure to catch my previous Untitled Magic: The Gathering Podcast where I talk with none other than Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa: • The Future Of Magic Th...
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Игры
2015 wotc: llanowar elves is too strong for standard.
2019 wotc: here's every ug ramp spell we can think of.
2019 WOTC: Here's three Llanowar Elves glued together.
2020: we have all this ramp in format oh lets bring back Landfall to go nuts @.@
I was going to say TKT block.
I didn't even mind Origins, although the fetchlands combined with the dual lands they could fetch did fuck some things up.
Let's not forget that Abzan midrange did dominate KTK to the extent that almost everyone ended up playing some form of it at my LGS.
I don't know if WotC said this 2015, but they literally reprinted Llanowar Elves in Dominaria, 2018
This was a really fun cast. Have Crim on again sometime please, you guys have a great back and forth.
I disagree. Crim's opinions suck. Many if not all of the previous guests on this show I would rather see a second time.
You guys are weirdo nerds
15 lands per turn, play cards for free, it flies, tramples and walks your dog....
Me:
It's ok, bruh. White has life gain. Life gain is FIRE. 🔥
Huh, green's color identity? Don't worry, green is "just creatures"... fml. Even blue feels weak these days
I think it's pretty telling that watching games of Old School Magic, with the Power 9 running around but only Serra Angels, Sengir Vampires, and Shivan Dragons as creatures, feels a lot more balanced and enjoyable than watching games of Standard where someone makes 40 Scute Swarms and Genesis Ultimatium'd twice by turn five.
how weird must it have been when Crim found his old English teacher became a big youtuber
How weird must it have been for Prof to learn his old student is now a well-known streamer?
@@karlsmink The game store by wife's grad school was run by some professors
Magic really is played by everyone when you think about it. I was surprised to see Cassius Marsh played magic myself.
Bout as weird when I found my old prof in porn
@@Hundo_Mo MonkaS
Free spells and fast mana being bad things is a lesson they could have learned a hundred times by now.
But commander players like ramp! Gotta sell packs to those commander players!
@@6packproductions710 Free spells and fast mana are NOT ramp
@@GreenMonkeySam Fast mana absolutely is ramp. Its just better than traditional ramp
@@xonerex7501 There's a very clear distinction between more mana right now, and more mana every turn. With ZNR that difference is also Landfall.
Wizards know what they’re doing they love broken green/blue cards.
One problem is that so much of standard is 'immediately answer or die' . Opponent plays Omnath, escapes Uro, Elder Garg, Terror of Peaks, etc... you better kill it immediately or lose. That works as far as gameplay, but it means that players get frustrated as historically you could actually 'come back' from behind. There is no coming back when behind in today's standard.
Every card is already powerful, then they slap on extra value. Overtuned ramp and advantage means you can make a deck that is almost all bombs. They didn't even mention shit like Dream Trawler, which is still unbanned and busted.
played online it actually wasn't too bad. Omnath I went 0-17 against it. 3 times Omnath won through a detention sphere.
They mentioned that.
Cards don't need to be powerful to be fun. Become more creative, not more liberal with power level.
Ya, landwalk and converting your opponents lands is fun, unique combos and a bit of unpredictable is fun.
Yeah but thats difficult and requires effort.
DAMN STRAIGHT! No one explores the cards with their imagination anymore. Sad stuff when most people play the exact same decks and see nothing wrong with it. It's boring.
Cards DO have to be powerful to be fun, because being run over instantly against an optimized deck means you don't really get to play the game period. Cards that aren't viable but are somehow intrinsically interesting enough to be fun to play despite always losing are a fantasy most of the time. You just lose before your cards get to come online at all or you're outpaced or out traded in combat.
The cards do have to be powerful to get to exist within a match.
lol. “Are you still doing the teaching thing?”
Prof: “no, are you still a student?”
Was he really a teacher ?!
Neil Olipani yes, college level English teacher.
@@ndo420 In 2016 The Professor was a full time teacher. He put out a youtube video saying it was very hard for him to do videos and teaching, opened a patreon and said he would do more videos if the patreon could supplement the income of some of the classes he taught as he was taught per class/course. The response was OVERWHELMING, the community pretty much hired him fulltime and he was able to go from a MTG content creator hobbyist to full time. The entire thing was exciting and wonderful for everyone who got to witness it, I don't even play MTG but I watched his videos because he reviewed card sleeves and binders and he absolutely deserved the praise and support he received.
@@nonotachance7935 thats not the whole story, he didnt choose to quit teaching altogether. The college worked at downsized his department and let him go, but patreon let him work full time as a content creator
@@diegoantoniorosariopalomin4977 i was just giving a very quick overview. He cut it down to only one class.
I remember on MTGA I was so pissed off by everyone playing the same decks on ranked so I put together a deck with literally just counter spells and removal so whoever I matched up against would just spend the whole game not being able to play anything or having creatures die as soon as they etb. Games usually ended by someone conceding or being milled out.
I too hate myself.
You did well, don't hate. Hatin' Don't Pay, no way, no way
And you scooped to an uncountered 3feri each time?
@@timlamiam 3feri is banned i think
@@Juggernuts the mtga matchmaking is a pain in itself, i wish i had a funktio to declare 3 card and i wouldend matched against decks with thous cards and i would gladly spend the extra time to wait for an matchup knowing to had potenzial more fun in the game
That just sounds fun to me.
Damn. I knew Crim since grade school. Glad to have him here!
yo, your videos got me into sentai when I was younger, I didnt know you knew crim!
Standard is nothing but TRASH PLAY ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! PERIOD ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
@@isnanesavant cool stuff man! Yeah I've known crim for some time. Good guy.
i realize Im kinda off topic but do anyone know of a good place to watch newly released series online?
The problem with the whole giving wildcards to mitigate the impact of bans is when you have a powerful card you build around you're probably also crafting other rare/mythics that support that card. So then a ban comes, they give you four wildcards, and then you're left with eight or twelve rare/mythics that you've crafted that are now useless to you. Of course it's much worse in paper, won't even get into that, but they are seemingly giving themselves more rope to make over powered cards because they suppose they can limit the negatives of bans on Arena and I don't think that's really true.
To be honest their priorities are clearly shifting towards Arena.
“Why does standard suck?” Short answer: Uro. Long answer: as MaRo and other designers have stated they wanted to be more experimental but to compensate they would be more liberal with the banlist. The problem is that they put too many experimental cards out at one time. If they put out 1 of these cards out at a time then it would be fine, but they got too excited and put 4-5 in each set and if you ban all of them then there aren’t any payoffs in the format
The problem is everything but Winota and Fires was G or Gx.
If the power was spread and you couldn't put 18/20 of the OP cards from the past two years in a two color deck things wouldn't have been so ridiculous.
long answer: Uuuuuurooooooooo
@@Stroggoii And the main card making Winota broken was blue.
This is a bad and lengthy answer. The real answer is that the Meta is always whatever deck can cheat out the most mana as quick as possible. Whether its multiple land drops a turn or casting several spells outside your hand/mana limit. Look at current standard, no one is struggling getting Omnath on turn 4 unless they didnt draw him yet.
@@a_fuckin_spacemarine7514 Lol, there is one answer to Uro in this format that works out better than getting 2-for-1'd and potentially out-tempo'd with mana - Agonizing Remorse, a 1-for-1 - and it'll only work if it's cast in the first 1-2 turns (potentially at the expense of leaving a Lotus Cobra in play). Uro does literally everything that any deck could want to do - draws cards, gains life, mana ramps, beats face, recurs, and uses your graveyard as a resource. If you want to argue that banning Uro alone will not solve the problems plaguing Standard right now, I'll agree with you, but Uro is unquestionably part of the problem.
Prof walks in with his fancy teacher suit
Crim: “Hold my beer”
Almost a Shame this isn't released next week, 10/1. Would've been a helluva kickoff to October.
@@KumaKaori September is a spooky month
Isnt his suit from a SNL skit?
Crim: "Where's my money, bitch?!"
@@ValeraManuel David S. Pumpkins?
I think the fall of Standard can be attributed, partially, to the end of the 3 block set. Its no surprise the Khans was the last high point for standard, seeing as that was the last time we had standard fetchlands and the cohesion in design with multiple connected blocks. If RnD was allowed to design with that year's "meta" in mind, and go for a curved escalation that the 3 block pattern would allow, not every set would have to be "the best set ever" and build on its prior sets roots
I stopped playing standard after that change, so I agree totally.
It's simple: Standard can't handle cards with EDH level scaling.
And it's glorious.
Exactly!!!!
More than 2 colors in standard is messed up
Its funny that they tried to take this year to warp standard into some sort of Commander themed format. Companions and all these pushed cards... it just shows.
Standard being a trainwreck is one thing, but when the broken cards they keep printing massively shake up Modern with every new set, that's where the fun stops for me.
How many decks have died for Hogaak's, Oko's, Urza's and Uro's sins?
@Ninja Named Bob hey, at least the scutes are funny.
Whats great is brawl is f****d on arena rn because you still have access to all the last rotations cards without them rotating with standard
@@legoking1001 Uh, this isn't true as far as I can tell. All of the cards that rotated out disqualified all my old Brawl decks.
@@CanadianBaconPwnage a guy playing a basri deck played the fencing creature agianst me, it was the m20 1/1 with double strike
Zendikar Rising so far hasn't shaken up Modern for the worst yet, so that's a positive. Other than a few missteps, ZR is a great set. Uro and other cards that didn't rotate are what make it seem awful. Oh, and Scute Swarm should never have been printed. Other than that, I'm looking forward to the next Ban/Restricted announcement, and I'm hoping the next year's sets have ditched the F.I.R.E. design.
And then the Omnath, Four-colored Nation attacked
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH make it STOOOOPPPPP
Standard laughs at color fixing now.
Wotc: We won't reprint fetchlands in standard because they make the manabases too good.
Me: Do you guys even play the same game as us?
@@nickclemitus4598 lol the Fetchlands not being reprinted is purely about money, everything else is pretext, fetchlands were
"ok" during Khans Block, and only got annoying with BFZ due to fetchable duals.
@@keithfilibeck2390 Agree with you on that. Though I still find the argument they make to be a foolish one. Mardu vehicles was a thing in standard that was able to run fumigate and goblin chainwhirler and almost never fell to color screw
Wizards, if you're reading this, we desperately need a way to interact with TRIGGERED abilities!! Give us a pithing needle, but for triggered abilities.
Power should come with contingency. If you want an overwhelmingly powerful card, there needs to be a deck building constraint.
Build Standard for standard, but know how every card is going to affect eternal formats and consider their health.
well, we do have whirlwind denial. im gonna try testing that i suppose.
@Nick Lopez I agree with you. My standard decks rotating out with zero viability in other formats is what caused me to stop playing for a time. However, I believe the fix is more sets specifically designed for older formats. Standard cards will eventually rotate into Pioneer where they feel at least playable. WOTC should not print commander, modern or legacy powerful cards in standard sets or if they do Don’t print 10 of them just print 1.
I also have to say that not printing strong answers in the same set is a mistake. They used to be so good at that. Like printing witch’s oven but not making a tormods crypt equivalent in the same set. Instead they wait 2 more sets and by then it needs banning anyways. They could’ve prepared better by printing the answer the set before considering sets are planned years in advance.
give white or red interaction with triggered abilities
and i mean proper interaction not hatebears
"Magic cards have lot of text on them"
YGO player pulling out "Endymion the Mighty Master of Magic": oh my sweet summer child.
God what an open. That was incredible.
Agreed!
It seems that you are easily impressed
1) Don't combine ramp with card draw on the same card especially below 5 mana
2) the ability to cheat on expensive spells and creatures mana cost
3) free or possibly free spell
4) powerful cards you can't interact with eg lands
@@Juggernuts yup
I liked standard when I first started playing, but all of my friends just play Commander and now that Pioneer is a thing I just don’t see the point in playing standard anymore.
Play Historic if you play on MTGA. There's still some silly unfair decks there, but there's A LOT of hate cards to deal with them now. It's a MUCH better format to be playing right now.
CanadianBaconPwnage I’ve heard about that format. I haven’t played MTGA in a while, but I’ll check it out!
Smart Person main reason pioneer decks are so cheap is cause fetches aren’t legal lol
Totally, however at the rate things are going you might see pioneer very much like modern now a days be an standard plus format where people just play standard staples of just standard deck with tiny upgrades (see Uro piles and gruul midrange in modern)
Standard gradually becomes Yu-Gi-Oh
Yugioh is more painful than standard because your activations aren't limited to your mana pool. Turn 1 "Break my boards are the worst" and the "Set 4 Demise, drop a you can't play the game card, set and pass" is just as painful if not worse.
@@UncleJrueForTue
Bear in mind people who play YuGiOh are there for it and at least expect to deal with it. In MTG it's supposed to be more tactical and (mostly) reasonable since they got an entire balance department. Yet now there is more and more speed & power which isnt what this game is about.
The pendulum has shifted.
@@clayxros576 Well "balanced gameplay" doesn't mean no inherent strategy is too powerful. It means their is an equal amount of strategies that can be just as powerful in their respective tiers. It's why yugioh and pokemon has tiers and magic has the power scale in commander. The only issue in standard has both meaning multiple copies of cards like in yugioh/pokemon decks in specfic color combinations in a limited format. Also due to how magic has stuck with their color wheel guidelines and refuses to diverge from for too long they restrict certain colors and pairings(Boros) from recieving any reasonable support to match up with the others(Sultai).
@@UncleJrueForTue
That depends on your idea of balance I suppose. I'm of the opinion no inherent strategy should be too powerful, but does have unique powerful goals. It's not the inherent strategy that's strong, it's how you play the game. I have a strong hate of nuke, universal kill, and negates for example, and am designing my own game where those either dont exist or are highly restricted. Why? Cause it feels really bad when the board that took 5 turns to build is killed in 1, a strong card that took tons of resources gets popped by a 2 cost card, or you just cant play cause everything is negated.
The color pie isnt a bad idea, I myself actually use a heavily modified variant of it. The problem I've observed is that MTG is a bit too rigid in what it means, and when they diverge they just go full pants on head wild.
Now I want to address your remark about levels of power. Certainly not every deck should be made equal, obviously. It's just not possible and woukd kill variety. But (as a tangential theoretical example) saying that a Boros deck and a Gruul deck, with all their cards designed from a similar baseline, are at different levels of power is horrific design. The mere idea that two decks of a similar caliber are built to be stronger or weaker than the other.....I understand why game designers do it. But frankly it creates packfiller and is lazy. There shouldn't be packfiller in a balanced game, period. If a new card replaces an older one, so be it, but two cards printed together and one does the same thing better than the other...how is that an accepted design philosephy?
I dont understand when people say the power level of Ixalan was boring. People were ramping out Carnage Tyrants and Ghaltas on turn 5 and 6, Rekindling Phoenix was absurdly powerful and dificult to answer, they banned Rampaging Ferocidon! Azcanta was absurdly good in control decks and played to the last day of rotation. GRN standard was good because of Ixalan and Dominaria, and because on Arena we didnt have Kaladesh and Amonkhet, which were significantly more powerful sets. I do agree that M21 is a great set, the most fun set since GRN. But id rather have a meta somewhere between Ixalan and M21 then between even M21 and ZNR.
Agreed, I loved UB and UW control in Ixalan Standard. We had Azcanta, Settle the Wreckage, Disallow, Opt had just been reprinted...
Massively this, ixalan standard only felt weak because of the huge power that the previous sets had established, dominaria and the early Ravnica standard felt good in the context of ixalan (though terefi was a pain)
I agreed with you, this time i can't agree with the professor or the other guy
bruh they banned ferocidon just for future fears of Red decks. At the time everyone was confused cause the card hadn't even done anything
@@reillocb I mean it is still an obviously powerful card that certainly wouldve seen play if it had not been banned.
Looking back longingly for fetches in standard makes me think you forget how they made so many 4 color goodstuffs, which made many decks play similar rares and mythics so, in combination with the PRICE OF FETCHES, doubled the price of playing a good standard deck!
RTR-THS, for someone who was in college, was so much better.
so much this, not being able to drop 5-700$ on a deck made it almost impossible to play at the time
Prof: "by the way crim, make sure you are dressed for the occasion"
Crim: "OK, what do you suggest?"
Prof: "dress the way *YOU* think is cool but you know you wouldn't dress like it in an actual interview"
Crim: "got it, I have just the suit for this!"
David S. Pumpkins!
Wow. As a Yugioh Player this hurts way too much, since this us basically happening for like 10-15 years in YGO. WITHOUT rotation of course and the powercreep is insane. For all of you that maybe played YGO in the past, just check out "Red Eyes Dark Dragoon"
Even worse is that Dragoon has already been power crept by like 4 different cards
It really sounds like yugiohs issues invaded magic
They print stupid cards, they get stupid standard 🤷♂️
1) Don't combine ramp with card draw on the same card especially below 5 mana
2) the ability to cheat on expensive spells and creatures mana cost
3) free or possibly free spell
4) powerful cards you can't interact with eg lands
People complain abour stanard OP cards yet praise commander where every single deck no matter its playstyle must run cards like Sol Ring.
@@technokokos commander has a much wider depth of answers to it's threats and it also has 4 players typically- which means 3 of 4 to deal with largely problematic cards. Commander groups are able to communicate issues of power level to one another and make their own rules. Comparing standard to commander is simply wrong.
@@technokokos the difference is there's good, efficient answers for those busted cards.
There isn't any in standard because timmies get rustled whenever their cards get answered.
@@goozilla132 you do realize that its due to Standard only having access to cards from the newest sets right? It makes the bombs too good and the answers too few. It has nothing to do with 'Timmies' asshole.
Me: Well, with rotation behind us, hopefully standard can finally return to normal...
Standard: *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute *Scute
Me: Scoop.
Tried monored with plenty of small damage spells like shock or spikefield?
Thinking about what would counter the cobra-meta
Massacre wurm should be good
Red had a lot of its fuel rotate out. Right now it feels like you need to draw embercleave with anax to win consistently
@@DerekScottBland Ahh Yes, removal. Aka Uro Fuel.
I guess they kind of touched in my main issue with the game right now. Every card feels like, you need to answer this card right now, cause if you don't, I am going to win the game. You can remove it sure *if you are lucky enough to have one in hand* but it basically just kind of delays it til they put out the next unstoppable force.
When all the cards do everything a deck needs to win, it gets a bit draining.
I started right after core 19. At that time I remember playing against Nexus of fate and not playing magic. This is where, to me, the decline began, but I was bright eyed and I didn't have the history of magic pre Amonkhet and those sets. When rotation hit, I found that I could still build some fun decks like dragons, zombies, jank, and take it to an FNM or sunday event and had fun. Even if I didn't win, I played against a variety of decks.
Fast forward to Ravnica and War. I haven't been able to really build a deck that I want to play for fun because I get matched up with decks that are just competitive because they are 70% of the meta. Casual events don't need to be overly competitive. But now, even on arena, I find that if i want to try stuff, I am stuck having to either play a top tier deck or play against them every game.
I guess, for a relatively new magic player, I am sad. I love cracking packs, building fun decks with friends, but standard is just not fun anymore. EDH has been a good format, but I also like being competetive for prizes and stuff like that. But the format is not fun, I don't want to invest in a deck I don't enjoy, but also I don't want to invest in a card that may be banned next week.
I miss cracking packs, the thrill of pulling stuff for a deck that I could build and take to a tournament or store event. I am just losing the desire to buy packs. ZNR gave me hope, I didn't even buy core 21. It seems that things won't change though.
All in all, this was an awesome podcast! I love your info but the dynamic here is so good! Keep doing these!!!
I started the same exact time. For me it started going downhill with throne of eldraine. That's when it was getting obvious they didn't feel like banning cards too quickly because of $$$ The oko ban took way too long.
This was truly helpful. The one thing that won't age well is the Zendikar talk. For those that don't know, 4c Omnath players have started cutting Uro from their decks because they don't feel they need it anymore (CGB is a specific example). Congratulations Wizards, you created a standard that Out-Powered Uro.
~Commander~
I believe that the reason that standard keeps failing, its because they keep printing overpowered cards that eventually will get banned because they get played in +50% of the games, so if you have a non-tier1 idea for a standard deck, probably will get stomped by a tier1 deck, so they are not as many options as other formats have.
39:38 that's not actually true, because MTGArena/Hearthstone/LoR can do the patch and fix the issue, but if we go back, just check when WOTC decided to change Companion ENTIRELY and even with cards that have Companion described on the reminder text, and now those players have to actually go to gatherer and look that "Companion" doesn't do what it says on the card, but what it says on the website.
One could even posit that “companion” was banned, although not directly. The best word would be nerf I suppose, but regardless it’s a reflection of the health of standard and the relationship between printed cards in concept and their impact on standard as a format.
Nick Fanchette so true. “Reading the card explains...” wait. It in fact does not explain the card, which is a major fail.
Companion was always a bad idea imo, and Lurrus is still enough of a headache I wish the mechanic was just outright banned.
I hated that ban. I hate that i cant play lutri as a commander. So much lost potential.
>Magic cards have a lot of text
Me, a former YGO player: Oh, you sweet summer child.
If Magic is George R.R. Martin, yugioh is Tolstoy
True I played yugioh back in 2008.
@@erikburzinski8248 That's nothing. Look up Endymion, The Mighty Master of Magic
"How's standard lately?"
"It sucks."
It sucked before.
And it sucks now.
i dont even play magic, i just watch this for the professor.
I even magic play don't, just this I watch professor the for.
Typical sub on this channel
I watched until I started playing.
i know how to play but never play physical or online because its expensive and i already play many tcgs i only watch for the professor he has charisma and i enjoy watching this content
The Asian Avenger has returned!!
And standard does suck
it does suck!
Chris Py I know!! Brawl would have been successful if it wasn’t standard!!!
Stickler ForBricks brawl is 60 cards and 25 or 30 life depending on how many players are playing. Also...
BRAWL CAN HAVE PLANESWALKERS AS COMMANDERS!!!!!!
It's just so insane to me that only a year and a half ago the Pro Tour Allegiance had 6 different decks in the top 8. The most played deck of the tournament (Sultai Explore) didn't even make the top 8 and the 2nd most played (Nexus) only had 1.
Polar opposite nowadays. The deck that's 60% of the field tend to have at least 6 or so in the top 8.
43 minutes and not a single mention of Lurrus or Yorion, and that whole mess. Funny.
@Stickler ForBricks they made such an enormous impact that WoTC literally had to alter the way the companion mechanic worked. There’s a lot to discuss there.
There’s also the fact that after altering the mechanic, they were brought down to a more reasonable power level and thus weren’t banned in the majority of formats. Given the discussion about F.I.R.E. and design philosophy, it seems to me that perhaps developing and altering mechanics is the way forwards rather than outright banning cards.
Point being, there’s a lot to unpack and discuss there. I consider it a big miss given the context of this video.
Lurrus isn't even strong lol
Even with cauldron familiar he's only ok
The real problem was oven enabling Familiar to grind you out way more rapidly than any aristocrats deck should
My favorite standard was INN-RTR. Was perfect imo. Tons of viable decks in all archtypes of good powerlevels
Scars_INN was also really fun.
i enjoyed RTR/Theros block.. ah elspeth sun champion. jace artitect of thought and mostly, aetherling how i miss u
The thing is they've messed up standard so much that it will take years to fix. They would need like 5 powered down sets in a row to slowly fix it. Too fast and the sets don't sell like Kamigawa , too slow and the problem doesn't go away fast enough.
I worry that we've gone too far and each set is going to power up just to sell packs.
The problem is that they've powered up UG and ramp much faster than any alternate strategies. It would be nice to have good answers to ramp and a stronger strategy in other colors
Land destruction for R B and W then. :D
@@gypsieking3280 Armageddon in standard would have fixed a lot of problems
Boy i sure do miss zandikar, mirrodin, and innistrad blocks hahahahaha that was some real powerful stuff
Happened with Force of Will just as they started fixing the game. As soon as new folks were in charge they ramped the power and the game turned into YuGiOh with extra steps. Seeing the same thing happen with MTG is shocking since they've been around the block. Youd think theyd stay away from what kills games.
The pumpkin suit and Beetlejuice tie is quite the outfit.
Prof went the entire vid without commenting on Crim’s outfit. Now that’s professionalism.
It's Crim! I love him so much!
He's great!
Really loved the chemistry between former pupil and teacher. Felt very real. Also, I wanna cosplay as David S. Pumpkin as well lol
Best SNL sketch in the last 10 years.
It was the fact that I started playing during Khans that I fell in love with the game. Hooo my god I miss those times. As somebody who enjoys every color of the color pie because of the multitude of unique strategies, I loved that time and want to recapture it SO badly
Listening to this conversation was so fun! Thank you Prof & Crim!!
"It sucks" ... queue intro music... legit made my day.
"You love Teferi Time Raveler?"
"Get Out"
XD
I literally searched for one of your videos on this subject last night, what great timing!
I love how Wizards tried to print an answer to ramp in "Confounding Conundrum", but every time it's been played against my Omnath deck it was just a ton of free triggers.
I refuse to play a rotating format when cards cost as much as they do.
Proxy my dude
@@supernoodles908 You cant proxy if you want to play at an LGS, and standard is very much a LGS format, by which I mean to say that the majority of standard games are hosted at an LGS
@@xonerex7501 Nowadays, it's even a "club" format: you join your city's Magic association and what do you end up forced spending money into if you merely want to find more than a single player agreeing to play with you? T2... Rather dumb, when I only wished to play the game again with the (2000s) cards I liked.
(and I never owned any fully build deck, with perfect cards quantities in it etc, yet it's deemed "uninteresting" because older means stronger....)
The irony of this stuff being discussed with 4c omnath on the horizon is palpable
Even if the topic of a video isn't one I'm interested in, I always gotta click to see if there's a skit. Love it!
Remember when Shivan Dragon and Serra Angel were exciting? Man... that was a fun time.
I watched a video of yours from a few years back on the benefits of Double Sleaving and it said how these days even Standard decks are double sleaved because some are nearly $100 now.
Flash forward about five years and YIKES.
Khans of tarkir was an amazing time to be playing standard
It was a pretty good time to play modern too. Who knew printing the land base would increase playerbase?
Love these Untitled podcast vids! Thanks for having The Asian Avenger! Love his content and energy!!
"Get the hell out" = priceless. This was a thoughtful and thought-provoking episode. Thank you.
This guy is cool, should have him on more
I'm a jank homebrewer, and Standard for the longest time has been hostile to brewing. In GoR Standard I made a 5 colour dragon deck, and it worked. I was able to pull spots at FNMs, and win-a-box nights. Now if you don't play a meta deck you pretty much lose at matching.
Come for the content and stay for the great bits that you always do. Love it all
Great episode!!! If only Crim knew what is waiting for him in Zendikar.
WAIT A SECOND, THAT'S A DAVID S. PUMPKINS COSTUME!
When the prof talks about how the game gets stalled out, I think that's true of a lot of standard, but also a specific problem with the Omnath deck in particular. When Omnath stars firing off, there's still probably a 15- to 25% chance (depending on the deck) that the other player could win! But you are going to have to sit through a couple of 15min turns to get to that point of finding out, and that isn't fun at all.
I faced an Omnath deck with my mono green, I ate his every uro and omnath card with scooze and I thought I was gonna win but between ultimatum and escape to the wilds (or whatever that gruul card is called where they draw 5 and exiles them next turn) my opponent did simply not run out of bombs with 3 cobras on the field. By the time he was down at 15 cards in his deck I was reaching 40... (this includes me having a Henge on the board)
Great work! Entertaining while being thought-provoking. And a bit of heart warmth. :)
That banned list graphic was wild. Just JTMS and SFM in ten years vs…everything.
I quit standard and arena just 2-3 weeks after Eldraine, now I can't get in even if i wanted to, because I have to spend another 500 to make more than 1 deck.
Idk if that was the case a year ago but right now I built my first standard Deck, Blue Green Black Koma Control and it cost me about 120€ with Planeswalkers and everything but dual lands
I remember watching Modern Jund getting beaten to shit by a UG Standard deck. Pretty much sums up the problem with Standard.
Yeah Jund is a dying breed I think bc it’s a “fair” deck, which simply don’t compare with decks that cheat or have stupid synergies. Don’t get me wrong it’s still a great deck I just think it’s gonna get weaker and weaker if wizards keeps making the cards that they do :(
@@peterredmond6526 Jund sac is easily a top 5 deck in Historic atm.
@@literallysomedudeliterally9470 they ment modern jund
I know this is late, but I'm excited to have Crim here! I'd love to see Tomer , Seth, or Richard too if you all ever get the chance.
I would also love to get some cube members of the cube community on your podcasts. The cast of Solely Singleton or Cultic Cube would be excellent!
Thanks for always making excellent content and being a good steward of this community!
I think part of the problem is the shift in focus to digital, which almost always causes the game involved to be changed to be more "flashy" and "fun to watch" in order to use streamers as a free advertising service.
English classes can still have a point. Even if the student goes on to be a musician or content creator. Intellectual enrichment, y'all. Education isn't just about career or profession.
Zo-zu... Zo-zu punishes ramp. Zo-zu is the punisher. Zo-zu is the way
HE KNOWS DA WAE!
Great episode. I don't even play Magic anymore, but I really enjoyed your breakdown of it. Crim was a great guest.
It's so cool to see the Shannara books on your shelf. I have been a fan of his since the early 80's. (Yes, I know I'm old...but new to magic)
Standard still sucks after rotation. Omnath is broken. All the cards that let you cheat mana are broken. Planeswalkers are fun suckers. I thought I was playing a one versus one game, but my opponent has 3 planeswalkers. So now it’s a one versus four. And I have to beat the planewalkers before my real opponent because they have win cons as their bottom ability. After Khans is when I stopped playing paper Magic. That time was so fun! I played Dimir dragon control.
I'm listening to him be so excited for Zendikar Rising, it's almost a sad irony compared to where ZNR Standard _actually_ is.
It's been around for like a week
It's honestly not that bad. Yes, Omnath and Uro are everywhere. But no, its not because they're unbeatable; we just haven't found a deck that can really stand up to the value just yet.
The RB Midrange deck that VS LIVE played against the 4 color Omnath deck was really promising; turns out, if you tear apart the Omanth decks hand, their spells kinda suck
@@Regdarx11 In best of three it's VERY difficult to interact with and trip up if you arent playing black and or blue. Landfall inherintly has the advantage of triggering before I have the chance to respond. Combine that with a two drop that allows 4 color decks to have consistency, a three drop which covers all the inherent weaknesses of ramp (Uro), and the lack of any other competive mechanic to fight them in this meta (Kicker was over costed on every card, escape is fixed delve so 4 color landfall also run it, Party is straight up a draft mechanic and mill gets rolled by value) you wind up with this nonsense.
I've never heard of TheAsianAvenger before, but I like this guy. He's really articulate and smart
Boy! That intro completely made my day
Reintroduce islandwalk etc, then introduce color themed settle the wreckage/anti walk card
? "Landwalk" doesn't exist anymore?
@@ReiAyanami366 its unfun for one player to have an advantage purely for the colour of the decks
I’m here from the future: Zendikar made standard even worse. WoTC has to ban cards before they’re even physically available lmfao
Again?
why exactely is it worse?
I just played a game on arena where I could drop escape to the wild and two ultimatum.
I had omnath and two lotus cobra out, so I couldn't really run out of mana.
Edit: Too lazy to remover card names and was politely corrected.
Gonçalo Ferreira short version: landfall is broken a shit. Consistently getting turn 4 ultimatums with turn 3 being the nut draw. Now unless you keep mana up for removal on opponents turn 3 you may get steamrolled that same turn.
@@nkinoue Do you mean escape to the wild?
Really hit the nail on the head with this one. Ramp without opportunity cost throws off MtG's resource mechanics.
I love how Crim just talks about mana doubling when we are already at mana tripling!
That’s really the sum of it: Grindy games where you can see your loss coming from a mile away and you’re just hoping to heart of the cards some garbage answer to a loop you can’t stop. 28:20 was too true. Anything on the board now is a game ender. I never feel like I have enough kill spells just to stay afloat
Removal sadly doesn't also cancel the value their threats have already produced, which is really the crux of the problem. Threats produce too much value, which means interaction like removal simply isn't good enough. Then it becomes a threats arms race.
I’d say the one thing that makes those threats impossible to beat is the fact that they quickly and at no extra cost replace themselves. Cards should not just say when this creature enters draw a card. Uro has too much text. It could’ve easily said every time it enters or attacks search for a basic land tapped and it would still be strong. It didn’t need to draw cards and gain life. The life gain just seems unnecessary and it’s crazy how relevant it can be in a 1v1 format like standard. I agree that Cards like elder gargoroth and terror of the peaks are what standard needs. Same issue with Omnath. It does too many things for doing something you would already do. A fair version of the card would have more hoops to jump through.
No more draw effects on cards that are already good. Leave those for commander from now.
The big thing about trying to chase Hearthstone is it will probably end up a lot like everyone who tried to be "the WOW Killer." That is, as dead as all the card games who tried to copy paper Magic.
Boils down to:
- Too much mana too early is a mistake
- Freecasting is a mistake
- Undercosted cards without drawbacks are a mistake
Something DesolatorMagic has been saying for longer than I care to remember.
Crim: you have these cards that do everything...
Omnath: *lurks in the background*
TL:DR: WOTC needs to stop making all in one value + threat cards. Keep threats reasonably one for one answerable and keep value creatures small (no larger than like 2/2) and/or easy to deal with in combat.
Long version:
WOTC Prints stuff like hydroid krasis, Uro, Nissa, 4 color Omnath (And most other planeswalkers that are too good). along with ramp that replaces its self like growth spiral and Uro.
These cards are problematic because they cant be fully answered by strong answers found in control and traditional midrange decks. while at the same time, these cards provide so much "value" and in many cases so much incidental life gain that burn or aggro decks that should be able to prey upon these decks can't effectively do so. This leaves magic in a state of "Play all the value cards and the risk free ramp to play them sooner or you are at a huge disadvantage." At the same time this turns the game into a challenge of who can put the most broken value permanents onto the battlefield and draw the most cards and gain the most life. All decks are the same.
The answer people think we need is printing super strong removal. We have pretty strong removal already, but when each of these broken cards is played they generate too much value, putting removal cards at nearly always card disadvantage. Super strong removal also kills more fragile aggro decks that would naturally help to keep ramp and value decks in check.
The solution is for WOTC to stop printing all in one cards with a large body, free card advantage, and lifegain. 4 color omnath can't be fully answered when it cantrips on a large 4/4 body and gains at least 4 life every turn to completely negate aggro. Uro is obviously broken as it ramps into itself and can be played again and again as a large body that cantrips and gains life. Nissa, who shakes the world creates too much lasting value with her +1 and is an especially ridiculous mana doubler. Elder gargaroth absolutly has to be answered in 1 turn or it begins to snowball too much to keep up and on a 6/6 body for 5 with 3 combat abilities!
The answer is to keep threats in the realm of answerability. Tarmogoyf, Questing beast (I hate how many abilities it has, but it can be answered one for one) nighthawk scavenger, doom whisperer, stormbreath dragon. Maybe if it is safe to have some value combined with threats, a good level of answerability is glorybringer or pelakka wurm or the best example of a fair value creature: Siege Rhino.
Value cards should not generally be creatures but when they are, they should be small and easy to deal with like thief of sanity, mulldrifter, mystic snake, ravenous chupacabra.
I also think they need to have more mana costs associated with nearly everything. So many cards give too much reoccurring free value after you play them. This is a game about resource management after all.
Yeah. They keep making value creatures and thinking "Okay. This *dies to removal* (pun intended). How do we make it not die to removal?" When that's the whole point: Creatures DIE TO REMOVAL
@@FelipeASaito Exactly!
Just give players the ability to catch up if they fall behind. Even before War and Eldraine, losing because you could not answer a Runaway steamkin or Curious obsession on turn 2 was one of the most unfun experiences.
Growth spiral is perfectly fine imo. Uro is a huge problem.
They have to give reasonable card draw to other colors. If you don't want high value creatures, then Blue cannot dominate the card draw color pie like it does.
Asian Avenger is killing the David S. Pumpkins Look
Why did I have to scroll so far to see this?
#WhatsMyName
Mirrodin the set i started with is one of my all time favorites. Plenty of artifacts, free spells but had the balance for it. Affinity was amazing
I can't put into words how amazing that suit is. It's just perfection.
Why is Krim dressed as David S. Pumpkins?
Here’s an interesting exercise : go read through early articles on Rosewater’s “Making Magic” column (dates back to 2002). It’s interesting how conscientious even he was of design’s ability to break the game if they got a little too far out with their ideas. I think some irony in all of this too, is that since they’ll never reprint fetchlands into standard, so much of power push feels like an attempt to compensate for their absence. Great work as always!
They won't reprint Fetches in standard as Fetches sell their premium sets - look at Modern Masters 3 and the upcoming Modern Horizons 2.
Thanks for this video...very educating!
Great episode! I agree with most of this. Especially that everything has to be answered right away and even that is almost never enough. As usual when magic sucks, answers/reactive cards are too weak compared to threats/proactive cards.
But one thing I want to say is: I personally hated later khans standard of 4.5 colour good stuff piles.
I like colour to matter in the magic I play.
Hey Wizards, a way to fix standard: stop making cards that draw, ramp, gain life, AND make a creature threat simultaneously for 4 or less mana. Just choose two of those things at a time and we're good.
I remember being sad when I pulled two Lutri's from my Ikoria box. Especially since I'm exclusively an EDH player.
run him as a commander! (and politely ask people if you can use him as a commander since he's technically entirely banned, which is honestly really stupid but whatever)
I would happily allow any deck with lutri in the command zone or the 99 into my pod and I think most reasonable people would, it's just as a companion he is unfair.
Glad to see PK lurking in the background.
I've loved a chat about Standard, and with someone passionate about it as the Asian Avenger!