about cleaning the buckets: one has to avoid that they get dirty in the first place. So, to achieve that, you can use a trick from the packaging industry to reduce plastic waste: they use the layering approach. meaning you need to separate a set of properties (strength, light blockage, reconfiguration for the fruiting location, retaining the humidity) into layers. This is easily achieved. 1. use the buckets for strength. prepare configurable holes, by drilling 3..5 cm holes, and 3d printing of a specialized screw. 2. cover the inside with a thin layer of cellophan film, which is even bio degradable. One can think even of spraying the cellophan film into the bucket. 3. at the end of the lifecycle, one has to remove the cellophan film only. the buckets need not be cleaned thoroughly at all
@@stevenfeil7079 yes but sadly we don't live for millions of years so it's not renewable from a reasonable perspective, since we're depleting the resource way faster than it is regenerating, moreover the carbon footprint of oil exploitation won't just disappear when asked kindly
@@MacinteuchPlus It has actually been shown that wells that were thought to be totally dry just a couple of decades ago are now producing again. I say that KNOWING that you will find some stupid way to counter this fact. Just accept it.
@@stevenfeil7079 I won't just accept it lmao, stop trying to persuade me with this, some wells are flowing again, and? Still doesn't change anything about the fact that crude oil takes millions of years with peculiar temperature and pressure levels to be created.
Near the end of your video you mention cleaning the buckets, It sounds like a tedious time consuming task. Some thirty years ago, I made beer using carboys, but I also tried to make my own wine in 5 gallon buckets like yours. There was a chemical readily available at the beer and wine equipment store used to cleaning the buckets. I think it was calcium chloride. I only needed a little, 1 tsp per 5 gallons of water. To my recollection, cleaning the buckets was quick work. Of course, this is better for small operations, and may not meet the needs of a mushroom farm with hundreds of buckets. Anyway, it might be worth looking into.
I'm looking for ways to grow my own mushrooms, so I can do something for myself- disability sucks- and it's great to find a place with instruction on doing things.
This is a really important conversation to have. I am also looking for what we can do with old substrate. I'd love to have a space just to discuss innovations in sustainable mushroom growing. Please do update is about your results growing buckets and bags side by side.
Old substrate gets composted. Your local no-dig market garden will love a continuous supply of compost, as they use quite a lot of the stuff (cubic meters in fact) yearly.
@@aenorist2431 this is important. No dig gardens could benefit from free compost materials and eventually the mushroom industry could supply small scale farms and that way we could mimic the natural cycle of regenerate from decaying matter.
@@aenorist2431 my grandpa used to get used button mushroom compost and just add more manure to it. He grew mushrooms in the crawlspace under his house.
Completely agree. It’s such an intriguing space of innovative ideas. Would be great to have decent system to share and validate growing techniques. Though data capture in farming seems to be a time sink and generally unresolved problem.
I am going to make it with buckets. Because a friends restaurant normally uses quite a lot of those.. But have you thought about an restaurant dish washer for the bucket cleaning? You can just cycle 6-10 buckets every 2 minutes, and you are able to do stuff in the meantime. Thanks for the video!
I worked at PALS Mushroom farm (Portland, OR) in 2020 and packed the buckets with the pasteurized substrate and spawn. We cleaned the buckets with a power sprayer and then soaked them in a bleach bath. Stored them in the incubator room and then wiped them down with a bleach cloth before packing. I found that they do become brittle over time and shatter, which can cause cuts to your hands if you are not careful. I am sure that by this time, you have come up with your own way to clean them. I enjoyed the work, even though it was very physical, and we grew beautiful oysters. :) We sold the old substrate as a garden amendment. I did, and we told other to, put the old, well-inoculated, mycelium-laden substrate into a bucket at home, but to replace the center of the mycelium block with fresh straw, cap with a wooden board weighted with a brick (high tech stuff, you know), place in the shade, under a ventilated plastic if needed, water and keep an eye on the humidity and then have another flush. In the summer it would be too hot to do this, but the fall, winter, and spring were great times for growing this way. I have thought about stainless steel, round with sealable holes (we always taped the grow holes on the buckets until we saw signs of growth and moved them to the growing chamber) and some sort of gasketed, sealable/locking top, almost like a pressure cooker lid, with a rubber patch to inoculate through. Pricey, but very durable. Really enjoying your videos. :)
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge for free and for caring about the environment. Getting my buckets tomorrow. Peace and love from Ghana
I love that you're going through your processes and trying to find ways of making them more sustainable! I'm curious, though, if you've considered that the reason for avoiding plastic isn't just because of single-use plastics. It's also that even (especially) in reusable plastic containers, there will be some microparticles that can't help but be absorbed into the soil or substrate -- depending on what's being planted -- and from there, directly into the food you're trying to grow. I've been looking into various alternatives myself, and I think I know what's needed. What I'm hoping to find, or commission, is a cylindrical container made of either ceramic or glass, perforated every 3 inches or so with quarter-inch to half-inch holes along its length. It probably wouldn't be viable for a large commercial concern, but for a home grower, a one-gallon or half-gallon container with a removable lid would be perfectly reasonable, both in terms of finding storage space and in terms of getting it into a dishwasher when it's time to clean it out. I have friends who are potters and I plan to commission such a growing container, once I've demonstrated to my wife that we CAN grow mushrooms in glass jars on our countertop (or in the wine fridge that some relative gave us, thinking that we drink wine). I think it'll work.
That's an excellent idea. You should work on it. And you shouldn't be talking about it like this on open platforms without a non disclosure agreement. Please do file a patent as soon as possible.
ceramics is much worse then plastic buckets as shown - because it's heavy, can break, can't be made in high numbers with injection molding or similar low cost inducing techniques - which means will be much more expensive, since you can't make thousands of pieces per hour, and since is heavy is harder to clean also. The nice thing about it is that is friendly to the environment in a total way - from the extraction to the syntering in the oven - the entire carbon footprint is very very low compared to plastic.
@@atulpj bro its just a clay pot with holes and a lid lol, people just use plastic because its easy to use, ceramic would need cleaning and like with many things its easier to just throw away some plastic afterwards than deal with cleaning something, and a plastic bucket with holes is way cheaper, its not worth the labor or money for larger scale farms
Great video, very informative. Could you possibly make a follow up video on the results of buckets vs polybags? You mention trying it out to compare the yields and everything and I'd love to know th results. Thanks for sharing, and for actually talking about the downsides of mush cultivation. Cheers
I know a grower who started with buckets but switched over to plastic bags because the labor required was just too much to scale up and become a more profitable business.
Hi, Why is it important to clean the container between uses? If you are growing the same mushroom again surely you want parts of the old substrate left in, which you can use as the inoculation for the new substrate. Or am I missing something fundamental?
You guys are fantastic by the way! you cover the entire process with tips along the way, AND you aren't trying to sell me anything!! How about aluminum baking trays with lids? can stack and heat them, they're cheap disposable or maybe easier to clean. can poke holes on top too.
we've used compostable liners in the past and they don't break down very well unless they go into a commercial composting operation, so wouldn;t work so well with our simple composting of substrate set up
@@GroCycleTV But might this be a viable option if the municipality already collects compostable waste for free? There is an extra cost simply by adding fully compostable, plant based liners to the system, but could this be worth the saved time, effort and energy in cleaning?
Lovely courses, I’ve really enjoyed all your free intros and I’m planning to buy your course soon. Having used starch/maize based binliners before, I can totally understand your problem those being too soft. But buying fermented share plums the other day, I was really surprised about the rigidity of the plastic-like wrapping, and it was made of sugar cane syrup, maybe that is something you can look into and try again. Just a thought, maybe it helps. 💕
This really summarises the whole eco genda: plastics are bad but having to put manual labour (or money into machinery) into cleaning of stuff is worse. No wonder we got nowhere in our fight against waste.
Capitalism puts short term profits over long term sustainability. Especially when the costs of being unsustainable are spent by other people, potentially decades to centuries down the line...
@@ThomasBomb45 I think it's a genuinely bigger problem. With the cost of living we experience in the west it's really hard to even think of producing food at small scale not to mention doing it sustainably. Unfortunately, our current food tech is far from being clean and I doubt that's likely to change any time soon
@@sergefog I think we could afford to make it sustainable, but some big wigs might have to share their wealth a bit... a little investment into sustainable methods would go a long way
I used to work in a brewery and have grown mushrooms at home for a number of years. We used to clean casks with specially designed wash stations where you could essentially fill up a tank with cleaning solution (sodium hydroxide/peracetic acid) and cycle it through the casks via an arm fitted with a spray ball. Maybe you could use a similar system for your plastic grow buckets? Sodium hydroxide isn't the nicest chemical but was used to quickly clean off solid biofilm. Peracetic acid was used to sanitise afterwards, and eventually breaks down into non-toxic compounds (you can put beer straight into a peracetic cleaned tank without needing to rinse). Cycling the liquid cleaning chemicals within the system meant we could do tens of casks with only about 50-100L of each.
What do you think of ceramic jars, like the terra cotta pots for large potted plants, for reusable containers? They're heat resistant so you can just heat them in a kiln to sterilise quickly & easily all at once.
I've seen surgical tape being placed over bucket holes to limit air flow & maintain humidity. The mushrooms pushed their way past the tape. Is this recommended or not worth the effort?
Thank you for the direct, informative style. The videos with the endless, boring personal preambles (tenable in some cultures?) have put me off RUclips. Anyway, I liked this approach. One mushroom question (from a friend with an Italian restaurant) can one farm with porcini mushrooms? Is there a reliable source to put me on that track for a small farm?
Very informative... Much appreciated. Am about to venture into mashrooom farming. Am from Kenya. Hope to get the opportunity to get gather more information from you and your team
Well since margarine is one molecule from being plastic yet considered consumable as a butter substitute, lets try growing in that 🤔, I know jokingly...but really I know glass seems like a crazy solution, BUT it recycles and sustains cleaning, well forever. It’s formable to any shape/size, can withstand far more than any plastic! I really appreciate your efforts, all of us need to take these into consideration no matter what scale of farming.
How about using hot steam to sterilize the buckets right before adding the new substrate? This way, the cleaning process after removing the spent substrate might not have to be as thorough.
To properly compare bags with buckets it’s worth calculating how many times you’d need to reuse each bucket to account for the extra plastic/energy used in its production. Like those cotton tote bags that produce ~150 times more emissions than the disposable plastic bags they were replacing.
Hey I have a question about buckets... It seems that theres a couple problems. (1) Wouldnt contam be really bad, if it happened? Cause a whole bucket could be contaminated and you wouldn't know it? (2) What about on 2nd and 3rd flush... Wouldn't it shrink, and start fruiting inside the bucket? How would you prevent that? Thanks
@@greenspanfx Contamination issues: when seen, you 1) tape over the hole, depriving it of light and slowing the spread of the contamination spore. You check all the holes on the bucket and make sure there is no more contamination. You also check all the buckets in the incubation chamber or grow chamber. If you are checking on a daily basis, you should be able to catch problems before they get really bad. In the end, it is possible to grow or let the already-present mushrooms mature before you remove the bucket. Also, buckets on the farm I worked on usually had some degree of contamination by their 3rd flush, and after their harvest they were removed.
Hello Adam! There are "real" biodegradable plastics available on the market but they have a much higher price than conventional plastics. The other point is the tensile strength of the material what you mentioned basically about starch bags. Here a small list of the material which are biodegradable and can be produced bio-based: PHAs (Polyhydroxyalkoates): group of plastics produced by some microorganisms as energy storage when the supply of nitrogen or phosphorus is not sufficient and the supply of carbon is in excess. Means the palstics is produced in the bacterial cells in fermentation tanks and has to be extracted from the cells mostly by destroying the cells. The main component is hydroxybutyrate in polymerized form (PolyHydroxyButyrate) and a lot of other molecules can be incoorparated, too. All depending on the bacterial strain, process conditions, substrate composition, additives and so on. A sustainable way to produce PHAs is the use of agricultural wastes as substrate. A lot of research is going on this field. PLA (Polylactic acid ) is a other biodegradable plastic which is produced by polimerization of lactic acid. It is probably most common biodegradable plastic but the properties are not very suitable for producing foil bags. It is used for production of biodegradle plastic trays and cultery. The material itself is known to be brittle what makes a lot of things very difficult. PBS (Polybutylene succinate) is a other biodegradbale plastic what can be produced bio-based means without the use of fossil raw material but the production from bio-based material is far too expensive for now. PCL (Polycaprolactone) is a fossil based palstics but it is biodegradable by microorganisms and without any additives. PBAT (Polybutylene adipate terephtlate) is also fossil based plastics what is biodegradable, too like PCL. But for all plastics there should be some microorganisms in the soil which have the appropriate enzymes and the overall conditions for degradation should be given. For example there are lot of reports that PLA needs 50-60°C for initiation of degradation what given in industrial composting plants.
Could the cleaning buckets issue be achieved in a similar way to cleaning pint glasses in some pubs? - An upside down (pointing up) spinning brush with some kind of water/cleaner jets. Stick an upside-down bucket over the spinning brush and water jets, move it up and down, et voila. Just a thought 💭
Guessing the issue is not the cleaning itself rather than keeping them clean and sterile until reused again and how to actually make them sterile since most big buckets will not be fitting in non industrial pressure cookers
@@twitchclips8588 With oysters (and straw/coffee) sterility isn’t an issue. Pasteurising is actually better. A quick wipe with iso would mostly be sufficient for a properly washed/cleaned bucket. The issue, as I saw it, was efficient cleaning of the bucket between cycles - removing all the previous substrate in a quick effective way to streamline the process. Washing buckets in a commercial setting is crazy labour/time intensive and therefore expensive.
@@JustAnotherMaker ofc and agreed. but the topic is to remove the use of plastic waste and single use.. which this does for oyster etc where as how to approach it when you need the sterility and cleanness for bucket growing other types and strains of mushrooms
I enjoyed listening to your presentation very much. At the end I recalled having seen a footage about how they produce very stable bricks from processed mycelia, would that be a possible idea for growing mushrooms in such a material?
I was just thinking the same thing. It would be very strong and resistant to any further growth. But probably not so good with long term exposure to water and humidity, as the myco-structures I've seen are all compostable. Maybe using the light weight compostable plastic along with some type of rigid outer structure to give it more strength would work. Then there would still be the benefit of having something disposable (so less time spent on cleaning), but it would be reasonably sustainable
What are your thoughts on something like using corn starch bags, but placing them in tubs (almost like loaf pans) that could hold the form of the substrate when cut?
Hello, intresting video. What about growing into a glass container? Did you try it? i'd like to start growing mushrooms for my own use so i'm gatheting infos to sort out the better way.
What about a compressed coconut fiber bucket? Something like the nursery pots. They may not be autoclavable but could work with low tech farming. Along the lines of 5gl buckets I've thought about large diameter pvc pipes in 6ft lengths to replace the number of buckets used at once. Or maybe a wax lined compressed large diameter cardboard shipping tubes... or stainless steel tubes/tanks to go completely plastic free.
Have you tried growing mushrooms in cardboard boxes? All retailers get weekly deliveries of products in cardboard boxes. These get broken down and recycled. May of them are the same size and shape. Even if it decomposes (which it would), it would give a season of harvest before returning to the earth. Your thoughts? One thing that hasn't been mentioned here or on any other gardening channel making use of plastic is that plastic breaks down over time into microplastic, which is taken up by plants and then into our bodies. Microplastics have been found in 100% of people whose blood has been tested for it. I don't know what it does to us, but I know we did not develop to have plastic coursing though our bodies. This is something new.
What about having a sterilization chamber/part of your shipping container space where you have to wash your buckets first, but afterwards you put them in the chamber and pump in a mist of hydrogen peroxide? The kind of Hydrogen peroxide that is used for wound care is 3% and is used in some microbiology labs to kill pathogens. It's relatively cheap and environmentally friendly, doesn't need heat or electricity to work?
Hi. Great videos - thank you. I do a lot of upcycling with pallet wood. Is there any reason I couldn't make up some boxes about the same size as the buckets and bags you're mentioning to try and do some home growing? Thanks in advance.
The key is obviously the holding vessel...either way if using buckets or any container you are going to have issues with cleaning and reusing....even if reusable bags were created with set perforations or "flaps" these would still need to be emptied and cleaned to be reused once mushrooms fruit... How can this be avoided? When using buskets possibly large scale sterilisation of buckets in an IBC/large container for re-use again (hose out buckets and place all buckets in a large tub full of boiling/heated water possibly)...are there any potentials for having some type of open/non enclosed vessel for growing out (like a an open log/pipe of sorts with substrate inside and mushrooms growing externally) and to then clean out. As long as nothing is being disposed there will always be the cleaning aspect i feel. So this also poses the question of creating 100% bio degradable bags being the key..Sorry just brainstorming...possibly a key in increasing surface area (adjusting/updating known techniques) while maintaining enough substrate/nutrients to support growth...creating enclosed thin "walls" to hold the substrate which would thus have high surface area with holes for fruiting but easy to take apart and clean? Very keen to see the results for yields etc when comparing bag and bucket methods too guys...keep up the great work guys you've turned me into a 'shroom head (thanks! :P) and love how readily you share knowledge - hoping to have my own small set up running asap!
So i'm guessing the downside of buckets is not being able to to spot contaminates correct? I'm getting into growing mushrooms and Micro greens on my apartment porch and using the utility room for the micro greens. Yall's video are very educational and Inspiring I have found them very useful. Yall keep doing what y'all are doing, great stuff! I'll be using the bucket method... I already have a plan for cleaning buckets..... The kids here will need some money to make in the summer and I can have them clean buckets for some Cashola. =) *Cheers*
Just curious why you didn't include glass jars. I have a ton at home as whenever I food shop I opt for glass jars and just use them for storage and as drinking glasses. I already grow micro greens using a very simple jar and cheese cloth method. In the past I used to make kombucha and am thinking of doing so again. I'm thinking about experimenting with a glass jar method for making mushrooms. A substrate I might be able to use is from palm frawn husk, as there is a ton of it all over Arizona sadly.
Question, would stainless steel drums work? Durable, temperature and moisture proof, easy to clean out. The holes can be shut on hinges. Obviously much more of an investment, but should be a one-time investment too, no? For visibility one could install a strip of clear perspex (or the like) down the side of a tube, or just open up the holes / have the hole-covers be clear. Bonus is that steel is much hardier than even high grade plastics, meaning you can clean much more agressivly (in terms of chemicals or physical action, being a layman I have no idea what you'd use, but chances are steel can take it)
In bucket cultivation method, Can we simply add more soaked wood chips and saw dusts into the bucket after harvesting first crop of oyster mushroom? Without cleaning the bucket and without adding more spawn.
I wonder if anyone's tried using a commercial restaurant style dishwasher. They're basically just a tunnel you pass things through. They use very hot water. It may work on bucket tek.
@@GroCycleTV Somehow open-able maybe? So you get two half tubes for easy cleaning. And you probably want longer ones then the standard bucket. However, printing large objects is expensive too..
Is the lack of transperancy for buckets a problem? I see all the other containers being translucent and since the fruiting takes light i was wondering how that works with the buckets.
What if you taped three buckets together after cutting out the bottoms of a couple of them, drilling the holes needed, etc. Then when you need to empty and clean the buckets you can use a mop and push it down inside of the bucket chamber?
Does anyone know why the method of growing mushrooms in beds doesn't work for other varieties other than button-mushrooms? Why would an open bed of pasteurized/sterilized substrate inoculated with oystermushrooms or something similar not work?
hi, followed this doing well in bucket. however looks 4 or 5 holes show green molds instead of white . should throw all bucket away or still can keep it. thanks.
great video - the plastic film is the obvious downside of gourmet mushroom production. Alot of small scale production seems also to use substrates that come in single use plastics - eg wood pellets etc.
I wonder if using a stainless steel steam table pan with holes drilled in it would work well enough to be commercially viable? They are relatively cheap for stainless steel and you can get ones that are quite deep. The holes can be plugged with those silicone plugs for powder coating until needed.
To learn more, come and get your FREE ebook and video training here: grocycle.com/workshop/
about cleaning the buckets: one has to avoid that they get dirty in the first place. So, to achieve that, you can use a trick from the packaging industry to reduce plastic waste: they use the layering approach. meaning you need to separate a set of properties (strength, light blockage, reconfiguration for the fruiting location, retaining the humidity) into layers. This is easily achieved.
1. use the buckets for strength. prepare configurable holes, by drilling 3..5 cm holes, and 3d printing of a specialized screw. 2. cover the inside with a thin layer of cellophan film, which is even bio degradable. One can think even of spraying the cellophan film into the bucket. 3. at the end of the lifecycle, one has to remove the cellophan film only. the buckets need not be cleaned thoroughly at all
I find it really heartening that you are asking these hard questions about sustainability for the planet vs ease and sustainability for a business
It is a little known fact that crude oil is a sustainable resource. The Earth continues to make oil.
@@stevenfeil7079 yes but sadly we don't live for millions of years so it's not renewable from a reasonable perspective, since we're depleting the resource way faster than it is regenerating, moreover the carbon footprint of oil exploitation won't just disappear when asked kindly
@@MacinteuchPlus It has actually been shown that wells that were thought to be totally dry just a couple of decades ago are now producing again.
I say that KNOWING that you will find some stupid way to counter this fact. Just accept it.
@@stevenfeil7079 I won't just accept it lmao, stop trying to persuade me with this, some wells are flowing again, and? Still doesn't change anything about the fact that crude oil takes millions of years with peculiar temperature and pressure levels to be created.
Im old enough to remember being told the oil will run out soon every 10 years LOL.
Near the end of your video you mention cleaning the buckets, It sounds like a tedious time consuming task. Some thirty years ago, I made beer using carboys, but I also tried to make my own wine in 5 gallon buckets like yours. There was a chemical readily available at the beer and wine equipment store used to cleaning the buckets. I think it was calcium chloride. I only needed a little, 1 tsp per 5 gallons of water. To my recollection, cleaning the buckets was quick work. Of course, this is better for small operations, and may not meet the needs of a mushroom farm with hundreds of buckets. Anyway, it might be worth looking into.
This channel will grow because it offers alternatives to people, education , and alternatives, show them ways to go
such quality content -- this is like a masterclass/presentation style which is refreshing for YT
Problem I have encountered washing a bucket or a large stock pot is fitting it in the sink. How about an improvised large sink?
No one would think to try clay flower pot for obvious reasons ?
Didn't expect to find such a guide! I was just thinking about searching how to see how to grow without plastic and this video appeared. Thanks a lot!
I'm looking for ways to grow my own mushrooms, so I can do something for myself- disability sucks- and it's great to find a place with instruction on doing things.
This is a really important conversation to have. I am also looking for what we can do with old substrate. I'd love to have a space just to discuss innovations in sustainable mushroom growing. Please do update is about your results growing buckets and bags side by side.
Old substrate gets composted. Your local no-dig market garden will love a continuous supply of compost, as they use quite a lot of the stuff (cubic meters in fact) yearly.
@@aenorist2431 this is important. No dig gardens could benefit from free compost materials and eventually the mushroom industry could supply small scale farms and that way we could mimic the natural cycle of regenerate from decaying matter.
Market gardeners would probably love the eventual fruit they get too
@@aenorist2431 my grandpa used to get used button mushroom compost and just add more manure to it. He grew mushrooms in the crawlspace under his house.
Completely agree. It’s such an intriguing space of innovative ideas. Would be great to have decent system to share and validate growing techniques. Though data capture in farming seems to be a time sink and generally unresolved problem.
what about glass jars (that can fit in a dishwasher) with hole/holes in the lid for the mushroom to grow out of?
low yielding for substrate use but excellent for making grain spawn small scale
Not practical for commercial scale because it breaks and is dangerous.
I am going to make it with buckets. Because a friends restaurant normally uses quite a lot of those.. But have you thought about an restaurant dish washer for the bucket cleaning? You can just cycle 6-10 buckets every 2 minutes, and you are able to do stuff in the meantime. Thanks for the video!
How can you fit 6-10 buckets into them? Most of them are 60x60 cm So you could fit 4 x 30 cm diameter buckets in there.
Another idea could be using Zerotol and an IBC system
I worked at PALS Mushroom farm (Portland, OR) in 2020 and packed the buckets with the pasteurized substrate and spawn. We cleaned the buckets with a power sprayer and then soaked them in a bleach bath. Stored them in the incubator room and then wiped them down with a bleach cloth before packing. I found that they do become brittle over time and shatter, which can cause cuts to your hands if you are not careful. I am sure that by this time, you have come up with your own way to clean them. I enjoyed the work, even though it was very physical, and we grew beautiful oysters. :)
We sold the old substrate as a garden amendment. I did, and we told other to, put the old, well-inoculated, mycelium-laden substrate into a bucket at home, but to replace the center of the mycelium block with fresh straw, cap with a wooden board weighted with a brick (high tech stuff, you know), place in the shade, under a ventilated plastic if needed, water and keep an eye on the humidity and then have another flush. In the summer it would be too hot to do this, but the fall, winter, and spring were great times for growing this way.
I have thought about stainless steel, round with sealable holes (we always taped the grow holes on the buckets until we saw signs of growth and moved them to the growing chamber) and some sort of gasketed, sealable/locking top, almost like a pressure cooker lid, with a rubber patch to inoculate through. Pricey, but very durable.
Really enjoying your videos. :)
I think hemp plastics are the future once it starts getting used more and becomes readily available.
Plastic is plastic
Not true at least yet.
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge for free and for caring about the environment.
Getting my buckets tomorrow.
Peace and love from Ghana
I love that you're going through your processes and trying to find ways of making them more sustainable! I'm curious, though, if you've considered that the reason for avoiding plastic isn't just because of single-use plastics. It's also that even (especially) in reusable plastic containers, there will be some microparticles that can't help but be absorbed into the soil or substrate -- depending on what's being planted -- and from there, directly into the food you're trying to grow.
I've been looking into various alternatives myself, and I think I know what's needed. What I'm hoping to find, or commission, is a cylindrical container made of either ceramic or glass, perforated every 3 inches or so with quarter-inch to half-inch holes along its length. It probably wouldn't be viable for a large commercial concern, but for a home grower, a one-gallon or half-gallon container with a removable lid would be perfectly reasonable, both in terms of finding storage space and in terms of getting it into a dishwasher when it's time to clean it out.
I have friends who are potters and I plan to commission such a growing container, once I've demonstrated to my wife that we CAN grow mushrooms in glass jars on our countertop (or in the wine fridge that some relative gave us, thinking that we drink wine). I think it'll work.
That's an excellent idea. You should work on it. And you shouldn't be talking about it like this on open platforms without a non disclosure agreement. Please do file a patent as soon as possible.
ceramics is much worse then plastic buckets as shown - because it's heavy, can break, can't be made in high numbers with injection molding or similar low cost inducing techniques - which means will be much more expensive, since you can't make thousands of pieces per hour, and since is heavy is harder to clean also. The nice thing about it is that is friendly to the environment in a total way - from the extraction to the syntering in the oven - the entire carbon footprint is very very low compared to plastic.
@@atulpj bro its just a clay pot with holes and a lid lol, people just use plastic because its easy to use, ceramic would need cleaning and like with many things its easier to just throw away some plastic afterwards than deal with cleaning something, and a plastic bucket with holes is way cheaper, its not worth the labor or money for larger scale farms
@@aion2177 yeah, its perfect for home growers, but not large scale farms
@@___echo___ i just meant that it was a good idea for domestic production without the plastic leaching off of it and getting into the mushroom.
Amazing video!!!
The plastic that's been saved because of this video makes a difference!!! You rock!!!
My local ice cream shop just throws away their bins. They are happy to give them to me for free. They know me now.
Coming up with reusable containers and techniques are a step forward. A step that most othe you tubers are not providing content for. Bravo.
Great video, very informative. Could you possibly make a follow up video on the results of buckets vs polybags? You mention trying it out to compare the yields and everything and I'd love to know th results. Thanks for sharing, and for actually talking about the downsides of mush cultivation. Cheers
I know a grower who started with buckets but switched over to plastic bags because the labor required was just too much to scale up and become a more profitable business.
Really interesting , at least some people try to find more sustainable methods.
As always gents, another cracking look at mushroom growing. Great stuff!
Hi, Why is it important to clean the container between uses? If you are growing the same mushroom again surely you want parts of the old substrate left in, which you can use as the inoculation for the new substrate. Or am I missing something fundamental?
Amazing videos. The more I know your channel the more I find answers to question I do not even knew I had yet.
You guys are fantastic by the way! you cover the entire process with tips along the way, AND you aren't trying to sell me anything!!
How about aluminum baking trays with lids? can stack and heat them, they're cheap disposable or maybe easier to clean. can poke holes on top too.
You mentioned cornstarch bags being too weak - have you attempted using them as liners with netting or buckets for support?
I've been thinking about the same. Could reusable buckets ble lined with cornstarch bags to skip the difficult cleaning?
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What about a compostable liner in a bucket? Pull out the liner clean bucket🤔
we've used compostable liners in the past and they don't break down very well unless they go into a commercial composting operation, so wouldn;t work so well with our simple composting of substrate set up
@@GroCycleTV But might this be a viable option if the municipality already collects compostable waste for free? There is an extra cost simply by adding fully compostable, plant based liners to the system, but could this be worth the saved time, effort and energy in cleaning?
Lovely courses, I’ve really enjoyed all your free intros and I’m planning to buy your course soon. Having used starch/maize based binliners before, I can totally understand your problem those being too soft. But buying fermented share plums the other day, I was really surprised about the rigidity of the plastic-like wrapping, and it was made of sugar cane syrup, maybe that is something you can look into and try again. Just a thought, maybe it helps. 💕
This really summarises the whole eco genda: plastics are bad but having to put manual labour (or money into machinery) into cleaning of stuff is worse. No wonder we got nowhere in our fight against waste.
Capitalism puts short term profits over long term sustainability. Especially when the costs of being unsustainable are spent by other people, potentially decades to centuries down the line...
@@ThomasBomb45 I think it's a genuinely bigger problem. With the cost of living we experience in the west it's really hard to even think of producing food at small scale not to mention doing it sustainably. Unfortunately, our current food tech is far from being clean and I doubt that's likely to change any time soon
@@sergefog I think we could afford to make it sustainable, but some big wigs might have to share their wealth a bit... a little investment into sustainable methods would go a long way
I used to work in a brewery and have grown mushrooms at home for a number of years. We used to clean casks with specially designed wash stations where you could essentially fill up a tank with cleaning solution (sodium hydroxide/peracetic acid) and cycle it through the casks via an arm fitted with a spray ball. Maybe you could use a similar system for your plastic grow buckets?
Sodium hydroxide isn't the nicest chemical but was used to quickly clean off solid biofilm. Peracetic acid was used to sanitise afterwards, and eventually breaks down into non-toxic compounds (you can put beer straight into a peracetic cleaned tank without needing to rinse). Cycling the liquid cleaning chemicals within the system meant we could do tens of casks with only about 50-100L of each.
precisely what i have been looking for(:
Woah, what's going on with your profile picture? When I scroll up and down on my phone it leaves a cool comet tail behind it. How did you do that?
whatcha think about hemp plastic?
What do you think of ceramic jars, like the terra cotta pots for large potted plants, for reusable containers? They're heat resistant so you can just heat them in a kiln to sterilise quickly & easily all at once.
I like this idea! Id love to hear more of if anyone tries it. If it was glazed it would hold moisture too!
I've seen surgical tape being placed over bucket holes to limit air flow & maintain humidity. The mushrooms pushed their way past the tape. Is this recommended or not worth the effort?
I bought some from a drugstore online
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Thank you for the direct, informative style. The videos with the endless, boring personal preambles (tenable in some cultures?) have put me off RUclips. Anyway, I liked this approach. One mushroom question (from a friend with an Italian restaurant) can one farm with porcini mushrooms? Is there a reliable source to put me on that track for a small farm?
Very informative... Much appreciated. Am about to venture into mashrooom farming. Am from Kenya. Hope to get the opportunity to get gather more information from you and your team
Well since margarine is one molecule from being plastic yet considered consumable as a butter substitute, lets try growing in that 🤔, I know jokingly...but really I know glass seems like a crazy solution, BUT it recycles and sustains cleaning, well forever. It’s formable to any shape/size, can withstand far more than any plastic! I really appreciate your efforts, all of us need to take these into consideration no matter what scale of farming.
Only thing is, glass breaks! So hard to utilize for farm scale when moving around lots
Foldable box out of stainless steel :) Heavy front investment tough.
How about using hot steam to sterilize the buckets right before adding the new substrate? This way, the cleaning process after removing the spent substrate might not have to be as thorough.
To properly compare bags with buckets it’s worth calculating how many times you’d need to reuse each bucket to account for the extra plastic/energy used in its production. Like those cotton tote bags that produce ~150 times more emissions than the disposable plastic bags they were replacing.
Enjoying all GrowCycle's videos----thank you for sharing your knowledge!!
I will be following this comparison between bags and buckets closely 👍
Hey I have a question about buckets... It seems that theres a couple problems.
(1) Wouldnt contam be really bad, if it happened? Cause a whole bucket could be contaminated and you wouldn't know it?
(2) What about on 2nd and 3rd flush... Wouldn't it shrink, and start fruiting inside the bucket? How would you prevent that?
Thanks
1) yes transparent plastic is way better but hard to get by transparent large buckets.
2) true
@@greenspanfx Contamination issues: when seen, you 1) tape over the hole, depriving it of light and slowing the spread of the contamination spore. You check all the holes on the bucket and make sure there is no more contamination. You also check all the buckets in the incubation chamber or grow chamber. If you are checking on a daily basis, you should be able to catch problems before they get really bad. In the end, it is possible to grow or let the already-present mushrooms mature before you remove the bucket. Also, buckets on the farm I worked on usually had some degree of contamination by their 3rd flush, and after their harvest they were removed.
sir, what are the edible mushrooms that can degrade plastics? does the edible mushrooms grows on the plastics cause any harmful effect to humans?
Not sure
I bought some from a drugstore online
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Hello Adam!
There are "real" biodegradable plastics available on the market but they have a much higher price than conventional plastics. The other point is the tensile strength of the material what you mentioned basically about starch bags.
Here a small list of the material which are biodegradable and can be produced bio-based:
PHAs (Polyhydroxyalkoates): group of plastics produced by some microorganisms as energy storage when the supply of nitrogen or phosphorus is not sufficient and the supply of carbon is in excess. Means the palstics is produced in the bacterial cells in fermentation tanks and has to be extracted from the cells mostly by destroying the cells. The main component is hydroxybutyrate in polymerized form (PolyHydroxyButyrate) and a lot of other molecules can be incoorparated, too. All depending on the bacterial strain, process conditions, substrate composition, additives and so on. A sustainable way to produce PHAs is the use of agricultural wastes as substrate. A lot of research is going on this field.
PLA (Polylactic acid ) is a other biodegradable plastic which is produced by polimerization of lactic acid. It is probably most common biodegradable plastic but the properties are not very suitable for producing foil bags. It is used for production of biodegradle plastic trays and cultery. The material itself is known to be brittle what makes a lot of things very difficult.
PBS (Polybutylene succinate) is a other biodegradbale plastic what can be produced bio-based means without the use of fossil raw material but the production from bio-based material is far too expensive for now.
PCL (Polycaprolactone) is a fossil based palstics but it is biodegradable by microorganisms and without any additives.
PBAT (Polybutylene adipate terephtlate) is also fossil based plastics what is biodegradable, too like PCL. But for all plastics there should be some microorganisms in the soil which have the appropriate enzymes and the overall conditions for degradation should be given. For example there are lot of reports that PLA needs 50-60°C for initiation of degradation what given in industrial composting plants.
What about growing mushrooms in large bottle gourds and dipping them in beeswax to seal them?!
I think the mushrooms might start to decay and feed upon the gourd. Have you experimented with this type of growing?
What I like about about bucket is that you can stack them vertically 👌
Many thanks. I hope someday you're approached for a TV show
Concerning buckets, the fruiting holes appear to greatly restrict the possible yields. Is this impression incorrect?
Could the cleaning buckets issue be achieved in a similar way to cleaning pint glasses in some pubs? - An upside down (pointing up) spinning brush with some kind of water/cleaner jets. Stick an upside-down bucket over the spinning brush and water jets, move it up and down, et voila. Just a thought 💭
Guessing the issue is not the cleaning itself rather than keeping them clean and sterile until reused again and how to actually make them sterile since most big buckets will not be fitting in non industrial pressure cookers
@@twitchclips8588 With oysters (and straw/coffee) sterility isn’t an issue. Pasteurising is actually better. A quick wipe with iso would mostly be sufficient for a properly washed/cleaned bucket. The issue, as I saw it, was efficient cleaning of the bucket between cycles - removing all the previous substrate in a quick effective way to streamline the process. Washing buckets in a commercial setting is crazy labour/time intensive and therefore expensive.
@@JustAnotherMaker ofc and agreed. but the topic is to remove the use of plastic waste and single use.. which this does for oyster etc where as how to approach it when you need the sterility and cleanness for bucket growing other types and strains of mushrooms
I enjoyed listening to your presentation very much. At the end I recalled having seen a footage about how they produce very stable bricks from processed mycelia, would that be a possible idea for growing mushrooms in such a material?
I was just thinking the same thing. It would be very strong and resistant to any further growth. But probably not so good with long term exposure to water and humidity, as the myco-structures I've seen are all compostable.
Maybe using the light weight compostable plastic along with some type of rigid outer structure to give it more strength would work. Then there would still be the benefit of having something disposable (so less time spent on cleaning), but it would be reasonably sustainable
You are not dumb , thanks to inspire me to do the bucket tek , keep us updated on your bucket setup!
What are your thoughts on something like using corn starch bags, but placing them in tubs (almost like loaf pans) that could hold the form of the substrate when cut?
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silicone tubes?
What about recycling old plastic soda bottles? I also thought on recycling used large pvc pipes. Would these ideas work?
Been so busy now back to a bit of normally. A year late but still valid.
Excellent information lads.
Many thanks 🙏🌹💯
Awesome videos mate. Really finding your way of explaining things easy to follow and interesting.
it inspire me , for spawn i wil use re-usable jars, and for fruiting stage, i will use re'usable buckets, thank you very mush
Bit of a problem with hair continuity at 4:47, haha! Seriously, though, good info, thanks.
Really interested to know how the comparison between the buckets and disposal plastic went side by side
Hello, intresting video. What about growing into a glass container? Did you try it? i'd like to start growing mushrooms for my own use so i'm gatheting infos to sort out the better way.
Awesome. You guys are doing great work.
what are those bottles made of? plastic or glass? Thanks for another informative video!
They are made from a durable and autoclavable plastic, not sure but probably the same thing mushrooms bags are made of, polypropylene.
What about a compressed coconut fiber bucket? Something like the nursery pots. They may not be autoclavable but could work with low tech farming. Along the lines of 5gl buckets I've thought about large diameter pvc pipes in 6ft lengths to replace the number of buckets used at once. Or maybe a wax lined compressed large diameter cardboard shipping tubes... or stainless steel tubes/tanks to go completely plastic free.
This is the reason i went with mason jar grows.
Unlimited uses... unless it breaks of course.
in portugal we have a big farm with no plastic , they plant shitakes in oak and eucalyptus logs
Have you tried growing mushrooms in cardboard boxes? All retailers get weekly deliveries of products in cardboard boxes. These get broken down and recycled. May of them are the same size and shape. Even if it decomposes (which it would), it would give a season of harvest before returning to the earth. Your thoughts?
One thing that hasn't been mentioned here or on any other gardening channel making use of plastic is that plastic breaks down over time into microplastic, which is taken up by plants and then into our bodies. Microplastics have been found in 100% of people whose blood has been tested for it. I don't know what it does to us, but I know we did not develop to have plastic coursing though our bodies. This is something new.
When time comes will try bamboo sections and roasted banana leaves in baskets... If any of those work they'll be easy to compost or turn into biochar.
How many buckets would be necessary for the small scale grower that is a few hundred kg a week/month?
How about holding biodegradable bags at the bottom instead of hanging them at the top?
If the buckets are already inoculated with the spores and substrate why do they need to be washed?
What about having a sterilization chamber/part of your shipping container space where you have to wash your buckets first, but afterwards you put them in the chamber and pump in a mist of hydrogen peroxide? The kind of Hydrogen peroxide that is used for wound care is 3% and is used in some microbiology labs to kill pathogens. It's relatively cheap and environmentally friendly, doesn't need heat or electricity to work?
Hi. Great videos - thank you. I do a lot of upcycling with pallet wood. Is there any reason I couldn't make up some boxes about the same size as the buckets and bags you're mentioning to try and do some home growing? Thanks in advance.
Can you tell us how's the result growing mushrooms in buckets? Are the mushrooms size and yield smaller than plastic bag farming?
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Can the hessian sacks be treated the a lime solution prior to use to kill competing bacteria like done on substrates?
The key is obviously the holding vessel...either way if using buckets or any container you are going to have issues with cleaning and reusing....even if reusable bags were created with set perforations or "flaps" these would still need to be emptied and cleaned to be reused once mushrooms fruit... How can this be avoided? When using buskets possibly large scale sterilisation of buckets in an IBC/large container for re-use again (hose out buckets and place all buckets in a large tub full of boiling/heated water possibly)...are there any potentials for having some type of open/non enclosed vessel for growing out (like a an open log/pipe of sorts with substrate inside and mushrooms growing externally) and to then clean out. As long as nothing is being disposed there will always be the cleaning aspect i feel. So this also poses the question of creating 100% bio degradable bags being the key..Sorry just brainstorming...possibly a key in increasing surface area (adjusting/updating known techniques) while maintaining enough substrate/nutrients to support growth...creating enclosed thin "walls" to hold the substrate which would thus have high surface area with holes for fruiting but easy to take apart and clean? Very keen to see the results for yields etc when comparing bag and bucket methods too guys...keep up the great work guys you've turned me into a 'shroom head (thanks! :P) and love how readily you share knowledge - hoping to have my own small set up running asap!
So i'm guessing the downside of buckets is not being able to to spot contaminates correct? I'm getting into growing mushrooms and Micro greens on my apartment porch and using the utility room for the micro greens. Yall's video are very educational and Inspiring I have found them very useful. Yall keep doing what y'all are doing, great stuff! I'll be using the bucket method... I already have a plan for cleaning buckets..... The kids here will need some money to make in the summer and I can have them clean buckets for some Cashola. =) *Cheers*
There are transparent buckets as well.
Just curious why you didn't include glass jars. I have a ton at home as whenever I food shop I opt for glass jars and just use them for storage and as drinking glasses. I already grow micro greens using a very simple jar and cheese cloth method. In the past I used to make kombucha and am thinking of doing so again. I'm thinking about experimenting with a glass jar method for making mushrooms. A substrate I might be able to use is from palm frawn husk, as there is a ton of it all over Arizona sadly.
Glass or metal containers?
Question, would stainless steel drums work?
Durable, temperature and moisture proof, easy to clean out. The holes can be shut on hinges.
Obviously much more of an investment, but should be a one-time investment too, no?
For visibility one could install a strip of clear perspex (or the like) down the side of a tube, or just open up the holes / have the hole-covers be clear.
Bonus is that steel is much hardier than even high grade plastics, meaning you can clean much more agressivly (in terms of chemicals or physical action, being a layman I have no idea what you'd use, but chances are steel can take it)
How about expanding the operation with Pestalotiopsis microspora which eats the leftover plastic? is that possible?
to clean buckets, Brush on a drill. Then use dish detergent. at the end wipe them with thymol based solution or alcohol.
In bucket cultivation method, Can we simply add more soaked wood chips and saw dusts into the bucket after harvesting first crop of oyster mushroom? Without cleaning the bucket and without adding more spawn.
Look him up 👆
In using buckets , wont the hole made in the first cropping be an avenue for contamination in the second cropping
may a multicycle net to fit a compostable platikbag in, could be a solution ?
I wonder if anyone's tried using a commercial restaurant style dishwasher. They're basically just a tunnel you pass things through. They use very hot water. It may work on bucket tek.
How about 3D-printing containers explicitly designed for mushroom growing and easy cleaning?
Sounds good, but how would they be different from a bucket or storage box? Easy cleaning would be the innovation needed somehow
@@GroCycleTV Somehow open-able maybe? So you get two half tubes for easy cleaning. And you probably want longer ones then the standard bucket.
However, printing large objects is expensive too..
How about cutting drainage-pipes in half and open close mechanism onto them.
In Asia they grow in automated reusable bottle systems.
Is the lack of transperancy for buckets a problem? I see all the other containers being translucent and since the fruiting takes light i was wondering how that works with the buckets.
informative and well presented! thank you!
Hi, what instrument do you use to measure the moisture content and PH level of the substrate? Thanks
Bro ... Can I use large pvc pipe instead of bucket
In theory, yes... have you tried this? Let us know how you get on!!
Ok will try and show you ...by the way thanks for the yes
And what about cotton bags or other stronger tissue bags (juta bags ex.) Covered during the incubation with reusable plastic bags (with air filters)?
During fruiting probably they'll have to stay on the floor or stacked horizzontally
Thank you so much for this video! Any updat on how the second cycle went and how to clean the plastic containers? Love from India
You could always use a cornstarch bag and wrap organic rope around it!
Great thoughts brother. Way to go
What if you taped three buckets together after cutting out the bottoms of a couple of them, drilling the holes needed, etc. Then when you need to empty and clean the buckets you can use a mop and push it down inside of the bucket chamber?
Does anyone know why the method of growing mushrooms in beds doesn't work for other varieties other than button-mushrooms? Why would an open bed of pasteurized/sterilized substrate inoculated with oystermushrooms or something similar not work?
Great content only halfway in and it’s packed with information thank you 🙏🏽
hi, followed this doing well in bucket. however looks 4 or 5 holes show green molds instead of white . should throw all bucket away or still can keep it. thanks.
How many growing holes can i put in a 20 ltr bucket
great video - the plastic film is the obvious downside of gourmet mushroom production. Alot of small scale production seems also to use substrates that come in single use plastics - eg wood pellets etc.
Thank you for excellent content!!!!!from Stockholm Sweden 🌷🌸🌻
what if i put a random dried mushroom in substrate for good luck
I wonder if using a stainless steel steam table pan with holes drilled in it would work well enough to be commercially viable? They are relatively cheap for stainless steel and you can get ones that are quite deep. The holes can be plugged with those silicone plugs for powder coating until needed.