As an SDA when started thinking logically and intelligently first thing I did was put all EGW visions /writing a into the garage ..and started reading my Bible only and I was out of that system within 2yrs converted back to Christianity I challenge all SDA read your Bible only like the Bereans without EGW and let the Holy Spirit guide you
"... (christians) they say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or In a small grp at home. But, strangely, through such 'bible reading' they have reverted right back to the apostles doctrines..." Quote from the JW org. Applies the same for Ellen.
Nor did they interpret 2 Peter 1:12 to mean that truth changes over time -- a monumental error that has malignantly infected SDA propaganda for more than 175 years.
I had a discussion with one of the guys in ADL and others in a group chat about jewelry because I wear a wedding ring, and so does my wife. At the end of it, one of them said that if I’m wearing any kind of jewelry, I can’t consider myself an SDA. Since then, I’ve continued studying what it means to be an SDA, and I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t believe in the vision of 1844 or the Sabbath being the seal. As a result, I no longer consider myself an SDA, but I still believe in Jesus Christ, and my faith is in Him.
I remember being told that if you are wearing jewelry you’re taking attention away from God also that when the second coming takes place that the jewelry will burn you…I can’t believe I actually thought that was truth and a reason for not wearing jewelry as and Adventist.
This is a very civil conversation. This is how Christians should communicate. It is not that we MUST always agree on every single detail, but we should allow others to be heard.
"I will put a new spirit within you" After being taught in Adventism that spirit and breath are the same thing, looking back, this doesn't make any sense. So God is gonna put new breath in us? New oxygen? Like what? Adventism teaching on the nature of man doesn't comport with this verse (and many others).
The first thing he (Edwini) does when he's backed into a corner is start insulting his opponent and then bans him because they call him out. These guys are very bad people.
@catholic4sure976 facts!!! I have heard about it from credible sources. I know that God can change people's hearts, but especially Edwin was not very christian in our interractions. I saw screenshots of him suggesting the debate topics and avoiding the real juicy topics. They literally aim to answer questions that the Bible was not aiming to ask nor answer.
I have tried to reach out to them and tell them and they don't seem to want to engage. So I don't think Edwin is being honest. I have three really tough arguments which need to be addressed for the foundation of Seventh-Day adventism to even be true. So you would think it would be very important for someone who claims to care about Seventh-Day adventism and the people in 7th Day Adventist Church to want to engage in this question and show people that there is a strong foundation for Seventh-day Adventist belief
@DanielnKitavi first of all they need to show that they even use karaite Reckoning. Then they need to show which group of karaites that they listen to were right and where is this written at that they differentiated which ones were wrong and which ones were right because they were saying one group was right and then later on it seems like they're using a different group of karaites but they're not specifying who or why. Not only that but they made the claim that the karaites use the barley, but that needs to be proven that to use the barley is even biblical, because in Genesis 1:14 God himself says he gives us the lights in the sky to determine a day a year and a month. I had herb solinsky on my show October 4th of 2024 and he is considered the top biblical calendar expert in the world and he has also done more than 800 pages of research on the barley crop alone and has shown how absurd it is to use the barley. So the SDA also have to overcome all those arguments about how absurd it is to use the barley. We also cannot find any proof that Jews ever kept Passover in the month of May which would be required for an October 22nd day of atonement. Furthermore the language in Daniel 8 does not seem to allow for a 2300 day interpretation let alone a 2300 year interpretation. So one must explain why evening morning is in the singular in verse 8:14 and why it's in the definite article and singular in verse 26. Because for it to be singular would indicate one evening and one morning especially in verse 26 since it's using the definite article. And the only way to get around that unless you think the angels are stupid and can't speak proper grammar is to say that it's referring to an event that's happening evening morning and not the amount of evening mornings. Like the daily sacrifice which happens two times a day so therefore when it says evening morning 2300 it's talking about 2300 sacrifices going on evening warning which would make it only 1,150 days. But if you reject that interpretation then you have to explain why the angels are stupid and speaking improper grammar or come up with a better explanation. So I'll just start off with those two questions
@@DanielnKitavi and basically we need to know why the original karaites that they used in 1843 were now wrong in 1844 and what that explanation is and how they explained it. Because clearly those karaites used a different calendar. But on William Miller's chart he's got a completely different Reckoning as if he's talking to other karaites because he's claiming that it's still a karaite calendar, so what we need to see is why those original karaites are wrong and who are these new karaites that William Miller is talking to that were never documented
@@DanielnKitavi or else it looks like the Seventh-day Adventist are making things out because you cannot have back-to-back leap years and yet it doesn't seem like there's a new group of karaites that William Miller's talking to but yet he decides to produce a calendar which he claims is karaite, but now it looks like he is claiming there are back-to-back leap years. But Jews don't have back-to-back leap year so it looks like he's making it up which makes it look like the Seventh Day Adventist Church is just lying
Jason & Coto both, said that Ellen white quoted in her writings that Jesus atonement was perfect and Only full atonement, but statement like these don’t hold weight there are only words. That’s not what they teach. If Christ was the perfect / full atonement, why then do they hold strong to the investigative Judgment teaching. This clearly teaches that their Christ did not complete a perfect atonement! It’s just words semantics with these people.
Thanks for this interview, Peter. Unfortunately, I couldn't get past the sophomoric exposition of Revelation 12:17 cited early on as a supposed doctrinal pronouncement that -- magically -- confirms both SDA soteriology and SDA ecclesiology in 13 short words. Anyone familiar with accepted principles of hermeneutics would easily and readily recognize that Revelation 12:17 is no such thing.
@jamesandres6312 It runs further down the rabbit hole for me the Rev 19:9-10 proof text is stretched to the utmost. I don't see the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy as interpreted in Revelation 19:9-10 by Adventists. John is caught up in seeing the vision before him and he drops to his knees to worship the angel before him. The angel is rebuking him by telling him not worship himself (the angel) because the Spirit of the Prophetic things he is seeing (which John is currently experiencing) IS the testimony of Jesus. Meaning the visions you are seeing RIGHT NOW are all due to Christ, not the angel, so the angel says do not worship me, because all praise is due to Christ as this is all from Him and because of Him. Throughout Revelation John is having a full prophetic experience wherein the focus is the testimony of Christ. Also to further show that the same Spirit is in all of the gifts is shown in I Corinthians 12:4-11 NKJV So the Spirit of Prophecy, Healing, Tongues, Teaching etc. IS the testimony of Jesus, meaning they all testify of Him. So we come back to Revelation 12:17: Revelation 12:17 NKJV [17] And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. What does the author of Revelation say are the commandments of God? I John 3:23 NKJV [23] And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. And what does that same author say the testimony of Jesus Christ and who has it, John? I John 5:10 NKJV [10] He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. Contextually Revelation 12:17 and 19:10 are a lot more clearer for me and I believe it shows the error in how the SDA church and by extension the ADL is using these verses.
These guys are really a complete joke of themselves. I pray their eyes of their understanding be open to the knowledge of him who died for them. May God show them mercy.
@@SDAQandA that's awesome, I never imagined myself on one of your videosl. I do not own a camera so I would be audio only, if that doesn't work for you I definitely understand.
We need you on cam! Buy a Logitech HD cam. They don’t cost much and you can get them second hand!! We’d love to see you and hear you and I’d love to have you share your story! Please :)
"... (christians) they say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or In a small grp at home. But, strangely, through such 'bible reading' they have reverted right back to the apostles doctrines..."
Edwin said adventism have the commandements of God? Yet adventism place Little or no emphasis on the other 9 sayings given at Horeb. Their emphasis is primarily the Sabbath
For those commenting, can we stick to the actual conversation. I have watched these guys before. As a former SDA, I disagree with ADL, I don't see them spouting many of the stuff they are accused of doing. Let us be fair and stick to this conversation.
I also agree with the idea that ADL shares that it is God who is sanctifying his people. That's honestly a biblical view. If we are going to disagree with SDAsm, we should be honest when we see them present biblical truth. Its unChristlike to misrepresent a person.
@Bredrin90 I do agree with ADL that God is sanctifying His people. Where I disagree is that God now at this time must vindicate Himself at the end of time. In Ezekiel, God is vindicating His name because Israel (who He chose to represent Him) failed and profaned His Name many times, including the time instance in focus there. But we know that where Israel failed, Christ succeeded. He is what Israel failed to be. Hosea 11:1 NKJV “When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. Matthew 2:15NJKV 15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.” Christ is the fulfillment of what Israel was to be. Now if we are in Christ, Christ and His character is seen as representing God, not us. This is all because He covers us. So now would we say that Jesus failed and the character of God has to be vindicated? Certainly not. That's why the bible shows us that He is justified/vindicated ultimately by His death at the cross: Romans 3:25-26 NKJV whom God set forth as a [a]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
There are plenty of SDA who don't fully understand that their worldview is unbiblical. I don't think we should play down to SDAs who simply don't fully understand Adventism. If they support or defend Adventism, they support and defend an unbiblical, accursed gospel. Period. The "three angels messages" is not the Gospel that was preached to us. Investigative judgment isn't biblical, Satan being the scapegoat is completely blasphemous and where do they get their pre-earth origin story?? Bc that doesn't come from the Bible either. Finally, their obsession with the Seventh Day Sabbath shows that they do not understand the New Covenant. Come out of Adventism, brothers!! Ellen G. White is NOT a prophet!
Peter, I think the issue with someone who disagrees with certain fundamental teachings is Ellen White. Suppose you no longer believe 1844 is a legitimate prophetic date. The question then is what do you do with Ellen White who says that it is? The SDAs who remain SDA while in contradiction to Ellen White just seem logically inconsistent to me, because now they have to affirm that it is possible for a prophet to teach some thing the prophet claims is from God but be in error. This is why the hypothetical described where the general conference can meet and discard a fundamental belief can only remain in fiction. That could not happen without invalidating the entire SDA system. It is much easier to disagree and remain logically consistent members in many other Protestant denominations than in the SDA church. Sure the SDA claims their beliefs are not from EGW. Sure. But they are confirmed by EGW under divine inspiration. I don't see how it can be possible for those beliefs to change without the SDA church ceasing to exist. If one pillar is moved the entire thing crumbles. While we can talk of central and less central pillars, there technically isn't much of that in Adventism because as along as Ellen white has put her ratification on a doctrine everything ratified becomes central. It cannot be moved without destroying the identity of the entire system. You can continue to hold some of those specific beliefs but you can no longer retain the SDA identity without logical inconsistency.
Yes. Amen and amen X 10. Exactly. Please come on the show and we can chat about this exact thing. It’s so important to bring to the fore of what I’m saying! Please come on. You articulate so well.
Yes! I am always asking my family and friends, who gave them or where does their authority to pick and choose EGWs visions, writings, etc.? They think I am ridiculous for rejecting her as a prophet or an authority on anything but, don't see when they pick and choose what they want of her, they truly are ridiculous. As far as the 7 organization is concerned, the money coming in does all guiding.
I truly FEEL SORRY FOR these guys who dont REALIZE that they r doing biblical GYMNASTICS to prove the validity of their beliefs while citing the concordance picking certain synonyms that suit their beliefs.
@charnelallan7159, as a former SDA who still sees biblical validity in the 7th-day Sabbath and some other SDA teachings, I want to say that we need to be honest and stick with the presentation at hand. We must be honest as Christians. I will not support misrepresenting anyone. Do I agree with SDAsm as a whole system? No. Do I agree with everything ADL? No. But we must be honest as Christians. What ADL has that many apologists of any group seem to lack is graciousness-and that counts a lot!
@@Bredrin90 I would have to push back and say if someone identifies/describes a tactic as biblical gymnastics, that is not the opposite of being gracious. Some people's personality type is that they shoot it straight and don't minch words. A personality type is not the same as a person's character and shouldn't be seen as thus. This is largely done based on my observation. If this is not what you meant then pardon me.
Honestly, imagine having to defend everything that Ellen White said or wrote. This is got to be frustrating and only serves to reveal the total enmeshment of the "prophetess" in the Adventist denomination. To a truly independent thinking Christian, this is would be completely unnecessary, if not unthinkable.
Two words I like that you’ve used. Enmeshment and unnecessary. I agree. Lately I’ve often asked myself ‘why?’ Ellen adds noting of significance to the Christian path and in fact offers more obstacles and confusion than clarity.
@@SDAQandA Great interview with ADL Peter! Glad you kept it to just identifying their positions in this session. I'm looking forward to perhaps a second or third interaction with ADL as you discussed at the close. 👍 Keep up the good work.
Peter, I'm glad you did this. Sad I couldn't attend live. A key point worth drilling down on was where the ADL guys kind of glossed over saying "the substitutionary atoneing death of Christ". That could be taken many different ways. It would be very telling of their picture of God if they were to clarify what they mean by each of those words. It's bound to come up in the next talk when they speak on the Gospel so if you could try getting an answer on the actual machanics of what they mean by those heavy theological terms. Is this a blood sacrifice view? Is this a "hidden by Christ from the wrath of God" view? And then what does their answer surmise about the God they follow? I find people don't usually know how to answer if they haven't looked beyond the emphasis on "MY salvation".
Good evening Motosapien. When you participated in SDQ Q & A, I listened carefully to your acclamation of Maxwell's avuncular description of, and aversion to, the bloody consequences of mankind's rebellion against Holy God. I'm sad to think that you have subscripted to Maxwell's view that rebellion against righteousness can, and always could have been, assuaged by a gentile invitation to "trust God". To be sure, Maxell made a mighty, and in some ways admirable, effort to find a rational version of 19th century SDA fantasies -- among other reasons, to keep his job in the face of juvenile administrative resistance -- but it was impossible that he could do so consistent with the plain teaching of scripture. Maxwell may or may not have consciously bought into the vestiges of Arianism that infected -- and I would suggests continues to infect -- SDA Christology and soteriology, but it certainly infused his unremittent aversion to the notion that God required sacrifice in order to redeem mankind. Did Maxell truly not understand that the bloody sacrifice by which God became, and was revealed to be, both just and the justifier was suffered by God Himself? Has there ever been anything more profound and consequential in all eternity?
@jamesandres6312 Hi James. As someone who sat in Graham's SS lessons multiple times you should know these answers about Maxwell. Arianism? Absolutely not. Maxwell was on record through the tape recordings by the Kirk's for over 40 years. His own words "Jesus is God in human form". You've previously made the claim that he subscribed to moral influence theory, also completely false. Graham was repeatedly clear on his stance towards the issues and definitions, most keenly in the open letter 'The Scourge of Theological Gossip'. Both Maxwell and Provonsha pushed back on leadership in their time. They kept their jobs not because they capitulated but because they were theological sound and well educated in their positions so when those, notably juvenile, leaders tried to railroad them they knew more about their position and reasoning than those leaders did (my own take on reading between the lines). That was in spite of open opposition from high ranking folks like LaRondelle. You speak so much of blood, I'm sure you remember Graham's observation about hematolotry? Worship of blood. You seemingly are describing a God who demands blood sacrifice for appeasement, are you not? What of Micah 6:6-8? Isn't the God of the Bible the one who speaks with a still small voice? The One who says not by might or power but by My Spirit. When Elijah went out to meet God he didn't leave the cave for the power and light show but only for the gentle whisper. This isn't simply a Maxwellian view. @RachelleAnonymous just pointed me to a book by Brad Jersak who came from the Orthodox Church and independently found the same view of a gracious God that I have! You can find the trailer for 'A More Christlike God' here on RUclips. Please, I'd love to hear what you think of his preposition.
@@jamesandres6312 I have to come back to also clarify about how you've surmised my position. To say "Maxwell's view that rebellion against righteousness can, and always could have been, assuaged by a gentile invitation to "trust God" is a gross misrepresentation. The only way in which God could set and keep men right was to make Himself visible and familiar to their eyes! I'm sure you know the quote as it was one of Graham's most poignant citations. Or maybe you stand with the former editor of the Review who defiantly said "it is NOT the only way!" But then what is being implied about God's methods and the required means by which we are saved?
@@Motosapien46 "You seemingly are describing a God who demands blood sacrifice for appeasement, are you not?" That -- particularly the rhetorical "blood sacrifice" -- is the key point emblematic of Maxwell's (well intentioned) sophistry. Do you think that the sole source of goodness, love and righteousness in all eternity -- namely, the Almighty God -- can allow evil to exist forever? I hope you do not believe that is a viable option for the loving creator of all things. If that is not a viable option, what is? Is there really any other option for God than eradication of evil once and for all and forever? And if that is not "death," what is it? Hopefully you do not believe that "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23) is a joke or a lie or an exaggeration. What you call a "blood sacrifice" I call the most wonderful display of love that could be imagined in all eternity -- namely, God Himself paying the price of our rebellion in order to save us from our unrighteousness while remaining the unsullied source of all goodness, justice and righteousness in all existence. "The only way in which God could set and keep men right was to make Himself visible and familiar to their eyes." Wrong. Extremely wrong and sophomoric. To be sure, that is the only way that God could reveal Himself to us in any way we can understand. But for God to simply enter humanity by the birth of Jesus and then depart (ascend) to heaven with nod and wave goodbye would make a mockery of the sin problem. "The wages of sin is death" is not a joke or an exaggeration. God and evil cannot coexist. Evil and evil doers must be eradicated. That is by definition "death." God does not have to eradicate evil doers that plead the death of Jesus -- what you call a "blood sacrifice" -- as their own death. Jesus' death is the vicarious death of every believing Christian that they need not suffer. God can and will transform them from evil to righteousness, and give them the gift of eternal life, and still be 100% just precisely because, and only because, of Jesus' "blood sacrifice."
why all SDA believers are so afraid about this verse : HEBREWS 4 : 7 1. God make another sabbath day WHY ? and God call it TODAY (means 24 hours or only 1 hour). 2. on the 7 day WHY ? God closed the sabbath (day) specially to those sinners, unbelievers, disobedient 3. WHY ? God add a day or another day that he called today (sabbath day) for those new believers to worship him ? SDA PLEASE ANSWER ME IN ETERNAL SPIRITUAL WAY (HOLY SPIRIT) OF TRUTH from your very heart and from your soul. I'm waiting to be answered, Thanks, God bless ❤❤❤ from 🙏💖🇵🇭 philippines
If the truth sets people free, ask the ADL if they have assurance of salvation. I didn't a former sda. Ask them what they doubt about Adventism. Are there any doctrines that don't quite jive? Ask them what sins did Ellen White get caught up in. I bet they can name the sins of Moses or David.
@thatnicekid04 Now ask them what they mean by abiding in Christ. "Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort they must be conquerors in the battle with evil." Ellen white GC 425
@1:09:54 "It is my conviction, Presuming for a moment, that this GOD (Isa 14: 12 onwards) is Christ and this Christ is Michael." No Scriptures, nothing for evidence, just a conviction. So here we have a conviction, based upon an assumption, to build a narrative. In other words, a whole doctrine stands on a foundation what was laid with assumptions and now must be the truth. You cant make this up. May God have mercy, for I don't even have 10% of Job's patience when hearing this crap
I’m surprised at how much character attacks are seen in the comment section. Very disappointed in the unchristian behaviour. This is what the Pharisees did to Jesus. If you don’t agree with us SDA then show from the Bible, not attack the people. Reason as the Bible says.
I agree, no personal attacks. Personally I could no longer align myself with the SDA system because I tested Ellen White and she does not pass the biblical test of a prophet. Besides that, her writings distort the gospel which is very upsetting to me. Examples below: EGW: "Those who accept the Savior, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or feel that they are saved. Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves." (Christ's Object Lessons, p. 155). EGW: “We are never to rest in a satisfied condition, and cease to make advancement, saying, "I am saved." When this idea is entertained, the motives for watchfulness, for prayers, for earnest endeavor to press onward to higher attainments, cease to exist. No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God. Then, with the utmost propriety, we may give glory to God and to the Lamb for eternal deliverance. As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul--he should never dare to say, "I am saved." (Selected Messages, vol.1, p. 314). BIBLE: “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." (John 5:24). BIBLE: "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13). BIBLE: "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1). BIBLE: "He saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior. And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.” (Titus 3:5-7) BIBLE: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9) BIBLE: "I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given {them} to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch {them} out of the Father's hand. (John 10:28-29)
I agree, no personal attacks. Personally I could no longer align myself with the SDA system because I tested Ellen White and she does not pass the biblical test of a prophet. Besides that, her writings distort the gospel which is very upsetting to me. Examples below: EGW: "Those who accept the Savior, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or feel that they are saved. Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves." (Christ's Object Lessons, p. 155). EGW: “We are never to rest in a satisfied condition, and cease to make advancement, saying, "I am saved." When this idea is entertained, the motives for watchfulness, for prayers, for earnest endeavor to press onward to higher attainments, cease to exist. No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God. Then, with the utmost propriety, we may give glory to God and to the Lamb for eternal deliverance. As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul--he should never dare to say, "I am saved." (Selected Messages, vol.1, p. 314). BIBLE: “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of d.... into life." (John 5:24). BIBLE: "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13). BIBLE: "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1). BIBLE: "He saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior. And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.” (Titus 3:5-7) BIBLE: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9) BIBLE: "I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given {them} to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch {them} out of the Father's hand. (John 10:28-29)
Ezekiel 36 is about the rebirth of Israel, not the commandments. God is preparing for the rebirth of Israel. Cant take single text of context. God vindication is not about the commandments its about Israel unfaithfulness and Gods faithfulness to the land covenant. 36 Then the nations that are left all around you shall know that I am the Lord; I have rebuilt the ruined places and replanted that which was desolate. I am the Lord; I have spoken, and I will do it.
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring-those who keep God’s commands (jews) and hold fast their testimony about Jesus (gentiles). Rev 12:17
Mohammed had visions his night vision he received on his donkey ride to heaven EGW had visions outside of the Bible she also went into heaven in vision and saw a hallo around the commandment
lol. And Harry Potter is a wizard. According to that series of books. I’m not. Repeat NOT discounting the Bible. I’m simply saying the resurrection can NOT be proven outside of the book.
ADl jump and do biblical GYMNASTICS while saying context is king. U observed when asked which o Sources outside christianity proves Christianity Edwin said Oh its since 2008 ie long time agi he cant remember? Edwin is self righteous and refuse to admit he is wrong.
SDA'S dont take correction. Even when u bring out plain SCRIPTURES that contradict their doctrines, they go rught back regurgitating what they r INDOCTRINATED with. One example they say repeatively the term law means exclusively the décalogue and the law of moses is another law . That there r 2 laws , the décalogue is moral and the rest r cérémonial. SCRIPTURES make no distinction. Only in adventism . I cited 1st kings 2,3 AND KEEP THE CHARGÉ OF THE LORD THY GOD TO KEEP HIS COMMANDEMENTS AND HIS STATUES AND HIS JUDGEMENTS AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW OF MOSES. Nehemiah 10,28 THEY CLAVE TO THEIR BRETHREN THEIR NOBLES AND ENTERED INTO AN OATH AND INTO A CURSE TO WALK IN GOD'S LAW WHICH WAS GIVEN BY MOSES THE SERVANT OF GOD. These SOCALLED self appointed apologists IGNORE SCRIPTURES and continue using their PROOFTEXT APOLOGETICS to deem their doctrines correct. They dont take correction they believe only they have the truth
As an SDA when started thinking logically and intelligently first thing I did was put all EGW visions /writing a into the garage ..and started reading my Bible only and I was out of that system within 2yrs converted back to Christianity I challenge all SDA read your Bible only like the Bereans without EGW and let the Holy Spirit guide you
"... (christians) they say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or In a small grp at home. But, strangely, through such 'bible reading' they have reverted right back to the apostles doctrines..."
Quote from the JW org. Applies the same for Ellen.
If an Adventist cultist wi read the whole book of Galatians every day for 30 days they can free from the Adventist abomination.
Yes!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉
@umabrijmohun6720 kindly advise what Adventism teaches that’s not biblical??
Christians for 2000 years did not interpret Rev 17:12 to mean a future Adventist church. That's myopic.
Nor did they interpret 2 Peter 1:12 to mean that truth changes over time -- a monumental error that has malignantly infected SDA propaganda for more than 175 years.
I had a discussion with one of the guys in ADL and others in a group chat about jewelry because I wear a wedding ring, and so does my wife. At the end of it, one of them said that if I’m wearing any kind of jewelry, I can’t consider myself an SDA. Since then, I’ve continued studying what it means to be an SDA, and I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t believe in the vision of 1844 or the Sabbath being the seal. As a result, I no longer consider myself an SDA, but I still believe in Jesus Christ, and my faith is in Him.
I am sorry that is your outcome, God asks for a sincere converted heart, then he will take care of the rest.
Amen
@@Messiah-Handel Not strange that you are sorry that sonny's faith in in Jesus Christ, Messiah. Not strange in the slightest.
I remember being told that if you are wearing jewelry you’re taking attention away from God also that when the second coming takes place that the jewelry will burn you…I can’t believe I actually thought that was truth and a reason for not wearing jewelry as and Adventist.
SDA'S CAN NEVER ANSWER A STRAIGHT QUESTION
This is a very civil conversation. This is how Christians should communicate. It is not that we MUST always agree on every single detail, but we should allow others to be heard.
Christians?
"I will put a new spirit within you"
After being taught in Adventism that spirit and breath are the same thing, looking back, this doesn't make any sense.
So God is gonna put new breath in us? New oxygen? Like what?
Adventism teaching on the nature of man doesn't comport with this verse (and many others).
The claim that edwin made about accepting challenges, and not being afraid is a proven lie.
The first thing he (Edwini) does when he's backed into a corner is start insulting his opponent and then bans him because they call him out. These guys are very bad people.
@catholic4sure976 facts!!! I have heard about it from credible sources. I know that God can change people's hearts, but especially Edwin was not very christian in our interractions. I saw screenshots of him suggesting the debate topics and avoiding the real juicy topics. They literally aim to answer questions that the Bible was not aiming to ask nor answer.
@@wellnessprovherbs6254 Well said. Thank you.
I have tried to reach out to them and tell them and they don't seem to want to engage. So I don't think Edwin is being honest. I have three really tough arguments which need to be addressed for the foundation of Seventh-Day adventism to even be true. So you would think it would be very important for someone who claims to care about Seventh-Day adventism and the people in 7th Day Adventist Church to want to engage in this question and show people that there is a strong foundation for Seventh-day Adventist belief
What are these three really tough arguments?
How is the investigative judgement sanctuary 1844 doctrine biblical ?,where is any atonement TAKING PLACE IN DANIEL 8 14 ?
@DanielnKitavi first of all they need to show that they even use karaite Reckoning. Then they need to show which group of karaites that they listen to were right and where is this written at that they differentiated which ones were wrong and which ones were right because they were saying one group was right and then later on it seems like they're using a different group of karaites but they're not specifying who or why. Not only that but they made the claim that the karaites use the barley, but that needs to be proven that to use the barley is even biblical, because in Genesis 1:14 God himself says he gives us the lights in the sky to determine a day a year and a month. I had herb solinsky on my show October 4th of 2024 and he is considered the top biblical calendar expert in the world and he has also done more than 800 pages of research on the barley crop alone and has shown how absurd it is to use the barley. So the SDA also have to overcome all those arguments about how absurd it is to use the barley. We also cannot find any proof that Jews ever kept Passover in the month of May which would be required for an October 22nd day of atonement.
Furthermore the language in Daniel 8 does not seem to allow for a 2300 day interpretation let alone a 2300 year interpretation. So one must explain why evening morning is in the singular in verse 8:14 and why it's in the definite article and singular in verse 26. Because for it to be singular would indicate one evening and one morning especially in verse 26 since it's using the definite article. And the only way to get around that unless you think the angels are stupid and can't speak proper grammar is to say that it's referring to an event that's happening evening morning and not the amount of evening mornings. Like the daily sacrifice which happens two times a day so therefore when it says evening morning 2300 it's talking about 2300 sacrifices going on evening warning which would make it only 1,150 days. But if you reject that interpretation then you have to explain why the angels are stupid and speaking improper grammar or come up with a better explanation.
So I'll just start off with those two questions
@@DanielnKitavi and basically we need to know why the original karaites that they used in 1843 were now wrong in 1844 and what that explanation is and how they explained it. Because clearly those karaites used a different calendar. But on William Miller's chart he's got a completely different Reckoning as if he's talking to other karaites because he's claiming that it's still a karaite calendar, so what we need to see is why those original karaites are wrong and who are these new karaites that William Miller is talking to that were never documented
@@DanielnKitavi or else it looks like the Seventh-day Adventist are making things out because you cannot have back-to-back leap years and yet it doesn't seem like there's a new group of karaites that William Miller's talking to but yet he decides to produce a calendar which he claims is karaite, but now it looks like he is claiming there are back-to-back leap years. But Jews don't have back-to-back leap year so it looks like he's making it up which makes it look like the Seventh Day Adventist Church is just lying
Lets go Edwin have a public conversation with myles
Edwin is not dumb, he knows he’ll be in trouble if that happens🤫
@@tate4864 Nobody is in trouble having a "conversation" with Myles' eisegetical fueled anti-Adventist rhetoric.
@@NateH1984would you like to defend Daniel 8 in s live convo?
@@NateH1984Really u mean myles reading from OFFICIAL ADVENTISM PUBLICATIONS IS ANTI SDA? TRY AGAIN
@@tate4864 Question? The ball is in Myles's court. Peter is talking with Myles, but sorry, love, Myles knows better. He will not show!
Why does Edwin look so tense?
It’s not tense, just that smirk
Come on Jason Really, we know that Ellen’s prophecies did not come true.
EDWIN😮😮😮 WE R OFTEN BOOKED OUT WHEN MYLES IS MENTIONED 😮😮
The reality I feel, is that with someone as sharp as Miles on SDA faulty hermeneutic they will be up the river without a paddle
Jason & Coto both, said that Ellen white quoted in her writings that Jesus atonement was perfect and Only full atonement, but statement like these don’t hold weight there are only words. That’s not what they teach. If Christ was the perfect / full atonement, why then do they hold strong to the investigative Judgment teaching. This clearly teaches that their Christ did not complete a perfect atonement! It’s just words semantics with these people.
Ellen also said you have to stand without a mediator? So, is Jesus the only atonement or do you have to stand without a mediator?
EGW is a clown, and her followers are just the audience who paid with their souls to enjoy the circus.
Thanks for this interview, Peter. Unfortunately, I couldn't get past the sophomoric exposition of Revelation 12:17 cited early on as a supposed doctrinal pronouncement that -- magically -- confirms both SDA soteriology and SDA ecclesiology in 13 short words. Anyone familiar with accepted principles of hermeneutics would easily and readily recognize that Revelation 12:17 is no such thing.
If the dragon has not yet made war with the Remnant, it seems presumptuous that Adventism can call themselves the Remnant.
The dragon makes war everyday with the remnant.
@@Messiah-Handel What "remnant"?
@jamesandres6312 It runs further down the rabbit hole for me the Rev 19:9-10 proof text is stretched to the utmost. I don't see the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy as interpreted in Revelation 19:9-10 by Adventists.
John is caught up in seeing the vision before him and he drops to his knees to worship the angel before him. The angel is rebuking him by telling him not worship himself (the angel) because the Spirit of the Prophetic things he is seeing (which John is currently experiencing) IS the testimony of Jesus. Meaning the visions you are seeing RIGHT NOW are all due to Christ, not the angel, so the angel says do not worship me, because all praise is due to Christ as this is all from Him and because of Him.
Throughout Revelation John is having a full prophetic experience wherein the focus is the testimony of Christ.
Also to further show that the same Spirit is in all of the gifts is shown in I Corinthians 12:4-11 NKJV
So the Spirit of Prophecy, Healing, Tongues, Teaching etc. IS the testimony of Jesus, meaning they all testify of Him.
So we come back to Revelation 12:17:
Revelation 12:17 NKJV
[17] And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
What does the author of Revelation say are the commandments of God?
I John 3:23 NKJV
[23] And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
And what does that same author say the testimony of Jesus Christ and who has it, John?
I John 5:10 NKJV
[10] He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.
Contextually Revelation 12:17 and 19:10 are a lot more clearer for me and I believe it shows the error in how the SDA church and by extension the ADL is using these verses.
These guys are really a complete joke of themselves. I pray their eyes of their understanding be open to the knowledge of him who died for them. May God show them mercy.
If any sda wishes to defend daniel 8 against the antiochus view, let me know and we can talk live.
Why did you run from your discussion with Edwin 😂
I may know someone. Do it on the show? Who is this btw?
I would love to hear that discussion
@@SDAQandA that's awesome, I never imagined myself on one of your videosl. I do not own a camera so I would be audio only, if that doesn't work for you I definitely understand.
We need you on cam! Buy a Logitech HD cam. They don’t cost much and you can get them second hand!! We’d love to see you and hear you and I’d love to have you share your story! Please :)
Edwin is dishonest he is prideful and self righteous. He takes no correction because HE BELIEVES ADVENTISM HAS THE TRUTH
ADL shares their WORLDVIEW. Basically Eisegesis, not biblical Exegesis.
"... (christians) they say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or In a small grp at home. But, strangely, through such 'bible reading' they have reverted right back to the apostles doctrines..."
Edwin said adventism have the commandements of God? Yet adventism place Little or no emphasis on the other 9 sayings given at Horeb. Their emphasis is primarily the Sabbath
For those commenting, can we stick to the actual conversation. I have watched these guys before. As a former SDA, I disagree with ADL, I don't see them spouting many of the stuff they are accused of doing. Let us be fair and stick to this conversation.
Thanks bud
I also agree with the idea that ADL shares that it is God who is sanctifying his people. That's honestly a biblical view. If we are going to disagree with SDAsm, we should be honest when we see them present biblical truth. Its unChristlike to misrepresent a person.
@@AdventDefenseLeagueYou’re welcome!
@Bredrin90 I do agree with ADL that God is sanctifying His people. Where I disagree is that God now at this time must vindicate Himself at the end of time. In Ezekiel, God is vindicating His name because Israel (who He chose to represent Him) failed and profaned His Name many times, including the time instance in focus there. But we know that where Israel failed, Christ succeeded. He is what Israel failed to be.
Hosea 11:1 NKJV
“When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Matthew 2:15NJKV
15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”
Christ is the fulfillment of what Israel was to be. Now if we are in Christ, Christ and His character is seen as representing God, not us. This is all because He covers us.
So now would we say that Jesus failed and the character of God has to be vindicated? Certainly not. That's why the bible shows us that He is justified/vindicated ultimately by His death at the cross:
Romans 3:25-26 NKJV
whom God set forth as a [a]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
There are plenty of SDA who don't fully understand that their worldview is unbiblical. I don't think we should play down to SDAs who simply don't fully understand Adventism. If they support or defend Adventism, they support and defend an unbiblical, accursed gospel. Period. The "three angels messages" is not the Gospel that was preached to us. Investigative judgment isn't biblical, Satan being the scapegoat is completely blasphemous and where do they get their pre-earth origin story?? Bc that doesn't come from the Bible either.
Finally, their obsession with the Seventh Day Sabbath shows that they do not understand the New Covenant.
Come out of Adventism, brothers!! Ellen G. White is NOT a prophet!
Was josephus an enemy of the faith?
Peter, I think the issue with someone who disagrees with certain fundamental teachings is Ellen White. Suppose you no longer believe 1844 is a legitimate prophetic date. The question then is what do you do with Ellen White who says that it is? The SDAs who remain SDA while in contradiction to Ellen White just seem logically inconsistent to me, because now they have to affirm that it is possible for a prophet to teach some thing the prophet claims is from God but be in error.
This is why the hypothetical described where the general conference can meet and discard a fundamental belief can only remain in fiction. That could not happen without invalidating the entire SDA system. It is much easier to disagree and remain logically consistent members in many other Protestant denominations than in the SDA church. Sure the SDA claims their beliefs are not from EGW. Sure. But they are confirmed by EGW under divine inspiration. I don't see how it can be possible for those beliefs to change without the SDA church ceasing to exist. If one pillar is moved the entire thing crumbles. While we can talk of central and less central pillars, there technically isn't much of that in Adventism because as along as Ellen white has put her ratification on a doctrine everything ratified becomes central. It cannot be moved without destroying the identity of the entire system. You can continue to hold some of those specific beliefs but you can no longer retain the SDA identity without logical inconsistency.
The date of 1844 has No Prophetic Significance Whatsoever. Just a concocted thing to cover for the Great Foolhardiness 😮😂
Yes. Amen and amen X 10. Exactly. Please come on the show and we can chat about this exact thing. It’s so important to bring to the fore of what I’m saying! Please come on. You articulate so well.
Yup you definitely nailed it.
Very well stated, Daniel!
Yes! I am always asking my family and friends, who gave them or where does their authority to pick and choose EGWs visions, writings, etc.? They think I am ridiculous for rejecting her as a prophet or an authority on anything but, don't see when they pick and choose what they want of her, they truly are ridiculous.
As far as the 7 organization is concerned, the money coming in does all guiding.
I truly FEEL SORRY FOR these guys who dont REALIZE that they r doing biblical GYMNASTICS to prove the validity of their beliefs while citing the concordance picking certain synonyms that suit their beliefs.
@charnelallan7159, as a former SDA who still sees biblical validity in the 7th-day Sabbath and some other SDA teachings, I want to say that we need to be honest and stick with the presentation at hand. We must be honest as Christians. I will not support misrepresenting anyone. Do I agree with SDAsm as a whole system? No. Do I agree with everything ADL? No. But we must be honest as Christians. What ADL has that many apologists of any group seem to lack is graciousness-and that counts a lot!
@@Bredrin90Graciousness and teaching false doctrines is what?
@@Bredrin90 I would have to push back and say if someone identifies/describes a tactic as biblical gymnastics, that is not the opposite of being gracious.
Some people's personality type is that they shoot it straight and don't minch words. A personality type is not the same as a person's character and shouldn't be seen as thus. This is largely done based on my observation. If this is not what you meant then pardon me.
Honestly, imagine having to defend everything that Ellen White said or wrote. This is got to be frustrating and only serves to reveal the total enmeshment of the "prophetess" in the Adventist denomination.
To a truly independent thinking Christian, this is would be completely unnecessary, if not unthinkable.
Two words I like that you’ve used. Enmeshment and unnecessary. I agree. Lately I’ve often asked myself ‘why?’ Ellen adds noting of significance to the Christian path and in fact offers more obstacles and confusion than clarity.
@@SDAQandA Great interview with ADL Peter! Glad you kept it to just identifying their positions in this session.
I'm looking forward to perhaps a second or third interaction with ADL as you discussed at the close. 👍 Keep up the good work.
Peter, I'm glad you did this. Sad I couldn't attend live. A key point worth drilling down on was where the ADL guys kind of glossed over saying "the substitutionary atoneing death of Christ". That could be taken many different ways. It would be very telling of their picture of God if they were to clarify what they mean by each of those words. It's bound to come up in the next talk when they speak on the Gospel so if you could try getting an answer on the actual machanics of what they mean by those heavy theological terms. Is this a blood sacrifice view? Is this a "hidden by Christ from the wrath of God" view? And then what does their answer surmise about the God they follow? I find people don't usually know how to answer if they haven't looked beyond the emphasis on "MY salvation".
Good evening Motosapien. When you participated in SDQ Q & A, I listened carefully to your acclamation of Maxwell's avuncular description of, and aversion to, the bloody consequences of mankind's rebellion against Holy God. I'm sad to think that you have subscripted to Maxwell's view that rebellion against righteousness can, and always could have been, assuaged by a gentile invitation to "trust God". To be sure, Maxell made a mighty, and in some ways admirable, effort to find a rational version of 19th century SDA fantasies -- among other reasons, to keep his job in the face of juvenile administrative resistance -- but it was impossible that he could do so consistent with the plain teaching of scripture. Maxwell may or may not have consciously bought into the vestiges of Arianism that infected -- and I would suggests continues to infect -- SDA Christology and soteriology, but it certainly infused his unremittent aversion to the notion that God required sacrifice in order to redeem mankind. Did Maxell truly not understand that the bloody sacrifice by which God became, and was revealed to be, both just and the justifier was suffered by God Himself? Has there ever been anything more profound and consequential in all eternity?
@jamesandres6312 Hi James. As someone who sat in Graham's SS lessons multiple times you should know these answers about Maxwell. Arianism? Absolutely not. Maxwell was on record through the tape recordings by the Kirk's for over 40 years. His own words "Jesus is God in human form". You've previously made the claim that he subscribed to moral influence theory, also completely false. Graham was repeatedly clear on his stance towards the issues and definitions, most keenly in the open letter 'The Scourge of Theological Gossip'. Both Maxwell and Provonsha pushed back on leadership in their time. They kept their jobs not because they capitulated but because they were theological sound and well educated in their positions so when those, notably juvenile, leaders tried to railroad them they knew more about their position and reasoning than those leaders did (my own take on reading between the lines). That was in spite of open opposition from high ranking folks like LaRondelle. You speak so much of blood, I'm sure you remember Graham's observation about hematolotry? Worship of blood. You seemingly are describing a God who demands blood sacrifice for appeasement, are you not? What of Micah 6:6-8? Isn't the God of the Bible the one who speaks with a still small voice? The One who says not by might or power but by My Spirit. When Elijah went out to meet God he didn't leave the cave for the power and light show but only for the gentle whisper. This isn't simply a Maxwellian view. @RachelleAnonymous just pointed me to a book by Brad Jersak who came from the Orthodox Church and independently found the same view of a gracious God that I have! You can find the trailer for 'A More Christlike God' here on RUclips. Please, I'd love to hear what you think of his preposition.
@@jamesandres6312 I have to come back to also clarify about how you've surmised my position. To say "Maxwell's view that rebellion against righteousness can, and always could have been, assuaged by a gentile invitation to "trust God" is a gross misrepresentation. The only way in which God could set and keep men right was to make Himself visible and familiar to their eyes! I'm sure you know the quote as it was one of Graham's most poignant citations. Or maybe you stand with the former editor of the Review who defiantly said "it is NOT the only way!" But then what is being implied about God's methods and the required means by which we are saved?
@@Motosapien46 "You seemingly are describing a God who demands blood sacrifice for appeasement, are you not?"
That -- particularly the rhetorical "blood sacrifice" -- is the key point emblematic of Maxwell's (well intentioned) sophistry. Do you think that the sole source of goodness, love and righteousness in all eternity -- namely, the Almighty God -- can allow evil to exist forever? I hope you do not believe that is a viable option for the loving creator of all things. If that is not a viable option, what is? Is there really any other option for God than eradication of evil once and for all and forever? And if that is not "death," what is it?
Hopefully you do not believe that "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23) is a joke or a lie or an exaggeration. What you call a "blood sacrifice" I call the most wonderful display of love that could be imagined in all eternity -- namely, God Himself paying the price of our rebellion in order to save us from our unrighteousness while remaining the unsullied source of all goodness, justice and righteousness in all existence.
"The only way in which God could set and keep men right was to make Himself visible and familiar to their eyes."
Wrong. Extremely wrong and sophomoric. To be sure, that is the only way that God could reveal Himself to us in any way we can understand. But for God to simply enter humanity by the birth of Jesus and then depart (ascend) to heaven with nod and wave goodbye would make a mockery of the sin problem. "The wages of sin is death" is not a joke or an exaggeration. God and evil cannot coexist. Evil and evil doers must be eradicated. That is by definition "death." God does not have to eradicate evil doers that plead the death of Jesus -- what you call a "blood sacrifice" -- as their own death. Jesus' death is the vicarious death of every believing Christian that they need not suffer. God can and will transform them from evil to righteousness, and give them the gift of eternal life, and still be 100% just precisely because, and only because, of Jesus' "blood sacrifice."
Edwin is so tense
Jesus taught that God needed justified? It's nonsense.
Edwin what about the presence of the holy spirit which convicts u to know that GOD is real
Exactly!
Having an encounter with God (however that may be) and being born again. Someone who is born again knows. Period.
We love u ADL not ur doctrines dont be SCARED to publicly defend what u believe ❤❤❤
YT is a public platform, therefore they are defending their beliefs publicly and on a non-SDA channel, clearly not scared.
why all SDA believers are so afraid about this verse : HEBREWS 4 : 7
1. God make another sabbath day WHY ? and God call it TODAY (means 24 hours or only 1 hour).
2. on the 7 day WHY ? God closed the sabbath (day) specially to those sinners, unbelievers, disobedient
3. WHY ? God add a day or another day that he called today (sabbath day) for those new believers to worship him ? SDA PLEASE ANSWER ME IN ETERNAL SPIRITUAL WAY (HOLY SPIRIT) OF TRUTH from your very heart and from your soul. I'm waiting to be answered, Thanks, God bless ❤❤❤
from 🙏💖🇵🇭 philippines
If the truth sets people free, ask the ADL if they have assurance of salvation. I didn't a former sda.
Ask them what they doubt about Adventism. Are there any doctrines that don't quite jive?
Ask them what sins did Ellen White get caught up in. I bet they can name the sins of Moses or David.
ADL showed from the Fundamental Beliefs that they have Assurance of Salvation through Abiding in Christ.
1:41:52
@thatnicekid04
Now ask them what they mean by abiding in Christ.
"Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort they must be conquerors in the battle with evil."
Ellen white GC 425
@vegacool1 didn't Jesus say to overcome?
@thatnicekid04 how did the Hebrews overcome at the first passover?
@@vegacool1 by doing what God said
@1:09:54 "It is my conviction, Presuming for a moment, that this GOD (Isa 14: 12 onwards) is Christ and this Christ is Michael." No Scriptures, nothing for evidence, just a conviction.
So here we have a conviction, based upon an assumption, to build a narrative.
In other words, a whole doctrine stands on a foundation what was laid with assumptions and now must be the truth.
You cant make this up.
May God have mercy, for I don't even have 10% of Job's patience when hearing this crap
I’m surprised at how much character attacks are seen in the comment section. Very disappointed in the unchristian behaviour. This is what the Pharisees did to Jesus.
If you don’t agree with us SDA then show from the Bible, not attack the people. Reason as the Bible says.
Yes, let us be respectful.
YET ADVENTISM CALLS OTHER DÉNOMINATIONS DAUGHTERS OF BABYLON AND APOSTATES ? REALLY? STIP BEING A HYPOCRITE
I agree, no personal attacks.
Personally I could no longer align myself with the SDA system because I tested Ellen White and she does not pass the biblical test of a prophet.
Besides that, her writings distort the gospel which is very upsetting to me.
Examples below:
EGW: "Those who accept the Savior, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or feel that they are saved. Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves." (Christ's Object Lessons, p. 155).
EGW: “We are never to rest in a satisfied condition, and cease to make advancement, saying, "I am saved." When this idea is entertained, the motives for watchfulness, for prayers, for earnest endeavor to press onward to higher attainments, cease to exist. No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God. Then, with the utmost propriety, we may give glory to God and to the Lamb for eternal deliverance. As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul--he should never dare to say, "I am saved."
(Selected Messages, vol.1, p. 314).
BIBLE: “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." (John 5:24).
BIBLE: "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13).
BIBLE: "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1).
BIBLE: "He saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior. And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.” (Titus 3:5-7)
BIBLE: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
BIBLE: "I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given {them} to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch {them} out of the Father's hand. (John 10:28-29)
I agree, no personal attacks.
Personally I could no longer align myself with the SDA system because I tested Ellen White and she does not pass the biblical test of a prophet.
Besides that, her writings distort the gospel which is very upsetting to me.
Examples below:
EGW: "Those who accept the Savior, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or feel that they are saved. Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves." (Christ's Object Lessons, p. 155).
EGW: “We are never to rest in a satisfied condition, and cease to make advancement, saying, "I am saved." When this idea is entertained, the motives for watchfulness, for prayers, for earnest endeavor to press onward to higher attainments, cease to exist. No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God. Then, with the utmost propriety, we may give glory to God and to the Lamb for eternal deliverance. As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul--he should never dare to say, "I am saved."
(Selected Messages, vol.1, p. 314).
BIBLE: “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of d.... into life." (John 5:24).
BIBLE: "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13).
BIBLE: "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1).
BIBLE: "He saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior. And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.” (Titus 3:5-7)
BIBLE: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
BIBLE: "I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given {them} to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch {them} out of the Father's hand. (John 10:28-29)
I wish Adventists would do the same. Sadly their default is the ad hominem attack.
Ezekiel 36 is about the rebirth of Israel, not the commandments. God is preparing for the rebirth of Israel. Cant take single text of context. God vindication is not about the commandments its about Israel unfaithfulness and Gods faithfulness to the land covenant.
36 Then the nations that are left all around you shall know that I am the Lord; I have rebuilt the ruined places and replanted that which was desolate. I am the Lord; I have spoken, and I will do it.
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring-those who keep God’s commands (jews) and hold fast their testimony about Jesus (gentiles).
Rev 12:17
Mohammed had visions his night vision he received on his donkey ride to heaven EGW had visions outside of the Bible she also went into heaven in vision and saw a hallo around the commandment
AND ANGELS NEEDING GOLD CARD TO ENTER HEAVEN😮😮
And she was able to see Jesus but not God the Father meaning He is of a higher rank or holiness than Christ! How ridiculous!
The apostles saw the resurrection (and the ascension). They are real and buried in the Vatican. First hand accounts.
lol. And Harry Potter is a wizard. According to that series of books. I’m not. Repeat NOT discounting the Bible. I’m simply saying the resurrection can NOT be proven outside of the book.
ADl jump and do biblical GYMNASTICS while saying context is king. U observed when asked which o
Sources outside christianity proves Christianity Edwin said Oh its since 2008 ie long time agi he cant remember? Edwin is self righteous and refuse to admit he is wrong.
SDA'S dont take correction. Even when u bring out plain SCRIPTURES that contradict their doctrines, they go rught back regurgitating what they r INDOCTRINATED with. One example they say repeatively the term law means exclusively the décalogue and the law of moses is another law . That there r 2 laws , the décalogue is moral and the rest r cérémonial. SCRIPTURES make no distinction. Only in adventism .
I cited
1st kings 2,3 AND KEEP THE CHARGÉ OF THE LORD THY GOD TO KEEP HIS COMMANDEMENTS AND HIS STATUES AND HIS JUDGEMENTS AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW OF MOSES.
Nehemiah 10,28 THEY CLAVE TO THEIR BRETHREN THEIR NOBLES AND ENTERED INTO AN OATH AND INTO A CURSE TO WALK IN GOD'S LAW WHICH WAS GIVEN BY MOSES THE SERVANT OF GOD.
These SOCALLED self appointed apologists IGNORE SCRIPTURES and continue using their PROOFTEXT APOLOGETICS to deem their doctrines correct. They dont take correction they believe only they have the truth
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