Good to hear four reasonable (for the most part) men speaking about the issue. But TPM and others in the opposition part of the house have an hidden agenda and are not reasonable but speak derisively to those who say that their agenda is not true to the Treaty or what they have believed for generations. Alfred took a very personal view in his comments about David Seymore but the issue is bigger than the man. We need to have principles so the relationship works, but the relationship needs to value and honour both parties and work towards a mutually respectful working together for the best for both parties. A marriage analogy only works if we establish the nature and understanding of the marriage entered into by both parties. Marriages are formed and lived out in a variety of ways. A modern partnership, a Christian marriage entered into willingly by both parties, an islamist marriage which has different foundations initiated by one party only, Indian arranged marriages. Many quite capable people are able to do their own research and argue for a point of view and deserve to be heard. Politicians are meant to be representatives of the people but we now have some there who have a narrow personal ideology that they are pursuing, we will never forget Jacinda Ardern's 'podium of truth' and how changes were imposed from above with no transparency and debate.
Our starting point should be what agreed outcomes we want to achieve- ie peace, equality and wellbeing for all. Seems a simple and essential place to start rather than trying to figure out what was going through the minds of the various key players over a hundred years ago.
An excellent discussion. Some due diligence on my part. I didn’t agree with all the panel’s points but it’s the kind of discussion we need rather than relying on soundbites and the facile talk we get on radio and TV. Well done
Well, what did Apirana Ngata say? Here is a scholar a statesman of the highest order who wrote an essay on the treaty, and he wss closer to events than any one of us today. So why are are trying to rewrite history?what about the final draft by James Busby which has all but disappeared from public discourse? why are we distorting and obscuring the truth. There were no principles in the treaty. I think that maori didnt no know the full impact of colonialisation after having ceded sovereignty and they have been trying to claw back ever since. Colonisation is a double-edged sword. It was cruel difficult but here we are.
The debate & vote should be in parliament. I would also like to know thoughts or discussions around the Chiefs Conference of Kohimara. I am perplexed between what I’ve been told & what the Kohimarama transcripts of chief statements
But!! And most important. Will Kiwis "submit to this bill. There is a need to prompting people and advertising to the public! Its important not to attack the person (David Seymour) but the topic. Is equality important NOW in 2024!!
No most New Zealanders don’t think… stop astroturfing. We just want to get on together. Stop this race based nonsense. Stop preferential treatment. Because we will be fked if we don’t.
When was the last time you were racially discriminated against by a cop in NZ? Or a social worker? Because Maori experience that all the time, and you don't stand up for non-Maori getting preferential treamtent in those situations. You're weaponizing clinical terms to reinforce bigotry.
The reasoning of the war party Te Pati Maori is about the embedding of the UNDRIP into the Constitution. People need to research Rosemary Banks 13th September 2007 UN Press Adoption of the UN Declaration for the Rights of Indigenous Peeople UNDRIP. New Zealanders are being so lied to..
All I Will add is 196000 stood together Peacefully at Parliament Biggest Ever seen in Aotearoa can not and should not just be tossed aside as a non advent.
Can I make a respectful suggestion? An organisation called Family First presumably purports to speak for women as well as men, given that women are the primary caregivers - and often the key decision-makers - in most families. All-male panels (such as this one) provide ammunition to "progressive" critics who like to characterise conservative groups such as Family First as being dominated and controlled by men.
By calling the Treaty Of Waitangi an Embryo making the Treaty a living document, it can just be changed whenever to fit the purpose. The Treaty Of Waitangi is a Document of Originality. The Treaty of Waitangi did not create a partnership.
Not Co governance but Co operation between different factions. Big difference. Sovereignty was I believe, ceded. And the Maori Chiefs knew this. The Crown did not promise a free ride. NOW is the time to have a discussion on our future. Bringing the Treaty and a required and "needed" equality into the 21st Century!! In my view. The historical Treaty as is, is not fit for purpose
Not sure if most of us are at the beach or otherwise on holiday Maybe most of your circles. The rest of us have work to do. Just saying...love your work
I think Brad added a good perspective when he said Maori fear marginalization. While general concepts of 'democracy' rests on equality with one person one vote...majority views rule. On the other hand minorities fear what they view as being a tyranny of the majority. Acceptance of the simple democratic rule should involve great care, with checks and balances to ensure we don't ever hear the words of one deputy Prime Minister Michael Cullen when he shouted across the Parliament to the newly defeated National Party members,..."We won, you lost, eat that!" It is that sort of arrogance that Maori rightly fear, & as a rural person, I can relate to that. Farmers were once reasonably dominate in tthe nation's affairs and had particular local clout in their respective local government rural counties. But more recent local government reforms have typically merged counties with urban boroughs where farmers pay hugely disproportionate rates but have little effective say in the urban majority priorities for say parks, libraries, etc.. I think any restatement of the principles of the treaty needs to be accompanied by much discussion and reform of legislation aimed at protecting individual citizens and minority groups. We need to relook at our quite casual dismissal of an Upper House of Parliament. Also our body of administrative law that constrains the actions of the Executive (Cabinet) & the civil service is particularly weak in NZ. But a great debate that adds to our civil society. Bravo!
The Marriage Metaphor was an insane one. Marriage is supposed to begin with "Equal Partnership" in mind, but the Anti-Treaty Mob would have you believe it was one sided. There blows that example!
We the people do not have an end decision making voice because we do not have a Citizens binding referendum like the government has. We have a Non-binding Citizens Referenda.
Doesn't bother me i speak the reo and understand hindi and spanish. But ive seen people get upset over people speaking another language infront of them
@@wax333 where did u learn the reo? And why are u sticking up for someone who only wants you to speak the reo in your home and doesn’t want to hear any other language?? I don’t believe you!!🙅🏽
2022 Auckland University Korero Convention.. Transformation of NZ Constution is well worth researching what is really going on here. Organized by NZ Human Rights Commission and National Iwi Chairs Forum.
Constitution is a living document and by calling the Treaty a Constitution you then leave it open to be changed, amended to fit whatever purpose and thats what has happened.
Hi Alfred i differ with your point on kiwis abroad i have done a lot of overseas traval and never once have i hear another kiwi ever mention the treaty and say they were proud of it most left because of it what about the musket wars and the french maori were in a mess in 1840 thats why they seaded sovereignty no douts
Why is the government so quiet about the Queen Victoria's Charter 16th November 1840 where NZ seperated from NSW.. This is when NZ became founded as a One New Zealand not attacked to the NSW. A Founding Country of NZ under a British Colony.
The Bill didn’t creat division. The last Labour Part Coalition did. They started changing government department names and mandating “maori” compliance all flaked by He Puapua. No, the crown did not recognize Maori sovereignty in 1835 via Hobsons creation in invention of”He Whakaputanga”. He wrote and implemented those proceedings without crown support, and it was rejected as not being endorsed by the crown. This was explicitly stated at the time. And he was reprimanded. It’s plainly obvious that the Chiefs didn’t write it and didn’t ratify it. The treaty is quite clear that the chiefs retain their property unless they choose to sell it. Radio waves were not know to anyone in 1840. However the Treaty gave government to the crown. The government has the scope to administer national resources. Radio waves are administered over for all NZers. Maori are part of all NZers. No one shoukdvown tge airwaves. The government administer them on behalf of all.
10th May 2010 Waitangi Tribunal Documentation - The Hikoi is not about the Treaty persay its about Vision 2040. UNDRIP embedded with 1835 Declaration of Independence and now they have added Agenda 2030 as certain Maori/Iwi had partticipated in this as well. Treaty is totally corrupted by the Judicial, Government and also add Claire Charters Iwi Chairs National Forum that keeps on running off to the UN.. and partnering working with NZ Human Rights Commission. This is what I personally call a Tyranny Of Human Rights. We need to get back to the 'We are All One People'
Everyone should read this Bill before commenting on it. In particular, read the clause inserted by Christopher Luxon. Section 6, Principle 2(2). Read by a woke judge, this might well suggest that the Treaty says Maori and Pakeha do NOT have equal rights in the matter of land ownership. Read it now.
Then submit that 2(2) needs to be defined impartially and authoritatively by a panel of historians as essential,before the bill becomes law. Leaving it open to the judiciary is an open invitation for another round of legal dispute and uncertainty.
Julian Bachelor should have been on this panel. Principles of the bill is where the problem lies in that it is a perspective and every person's thinking is biased towards what benefits come out of it for their comfort. Go back to the source.
What would Dr Jordan Peterson say Pretty much what David Seymore says !!! Wake up but never woke NZ !!! GET YOUR SUBMISSION IN NOW HOPEFULLY THEIRS AN EXTENDED SUBMISSION PROCESS .MAKE NZ THE NUMBER 8 NZ AGAIN . DAVID SEYMORE FOR PRIME MINISTER!!! This bill WILL COME TO PASS SOONER OR LATER ...THAT IS ALL .
It's unfortunate that the video fails to mention He Wakaputanga [ Declaration 1835 ] which must be understood as the basis that the Treaty was made on. As co-author of the 1835 NZ Declaration of Independence Henry Williams protected NZ sovereignty with 2 crucial phrases in the te Reo version. Tino Rangitiratanga meant sovereignty was retained, not ceded. And crucially, that governance was only over “British Subjects” which meant only people born in England. International law dictates that local language takes precedence in treaty. Realising they had failed; British parliament didn’t ratify the treaty or make it law. Instead, they lied again and said the English version was law & sovereignty had been ceded. A few years of debates ensued (England was busy in the opium war) before the Rothschilds upped the ante & brought in their private mercenary army from India to brutally crush resistance. And a century passed. In the 1970s however debate started again & finally in 2014 the head of crown law in NZ, the attorney general, wrote: “The treaty was a failed attempt at taking sovereignty away from nz and therefore the inescapable conclusion in law is that the legal document of precedence in NZ is He Wakaputunga (the 1835 nz Declaration of Independence) and nothing since then has changed anything about that in any way at all” So even the crown admits the real Govt of NZ is the federal Gvt under He Wakaputunga (the Wakaminenga Govt) Nothing done by the crown has any legal standing. The debt belongs to them not to the people. They are signed to the TPPA, the UN compact, the WHO, etc not NZ. And why neither councils nor Govt can produce a single document to show they have the jurisdiction and authority to level rates, fees, taxes, etc. They are in fact an illegal occupation force of a foreign corporation.
the problem is that He Wakaputanga failed because it was not a Maori initiative. The document set in place a formal Confederation of Chiefs meeting in parliament annually to make laws. The problem is that the federation model requires consensus in order to make laws, and as Maori pointed out to Busby afterwards, this was incompatible with tikanga, if one chief disagreed the only way to force a law through would be to go to war. For a chief to be outvoted in a majority was incompatible with mana.. Only three months later a negotiated dispute over land at Whananaki between two signatory Chiefs ended in a rout, with Waikato of Te Hikutu whipping out concealed guns and overturning the decision, driving off Noa and Ngati Maru in a rout. So much for negotiated consensus. Only five years later Pomare and Titore, also both signatories, were at war with each other. The Treaty was specifically drafted in order to replace the Confederation. with a voluntary transfer of allegiance from the Confederation to the Queen, and the additional allegiance of non signatory hapu. This model worked, because mana was not lost: the mana of each chief remained intact, under the guiding oversight of the Kawanatanga of the Queen- who brought the mana of Britain to Aotearoa as a covering cloak. There is more to the narrative but thats a start.
@@rogerevans7119 The Congress of He Wakaputanga made up of hereditary and non hereditary Maori, meets regularly, functioning in offering care and protection, peace and good order equally to all New Zealanders who desire it's protection. Te Ture Tikanga is Tika, [ correctness, honesty ], Pono [ honor ], and Aroha [ compassion ] and this is how Congress/the Confederation and the appointed Kawanatanga Wakaminenga Maori Government functions. Your narrative does well to continue the masonic agenda but the fact remains that Te Tiriti did not grant sovereignty to the British crown. The document does not state that. No Kingitanga [sovereignty but not to be confused with the Kingitanga movement which came later] mana or tino rangatira were granted to the British sovereign. Kingitanga, mana and tino rangatira are for all New Zealanders equally in the protection of the 4 Articles of He Wakaputanga.
personaly I think your way out on a limb guys , assumption and arrogance , "most people" would say this lol.. most people would agree that Maori like any group will interpret any document in favour of themselve,s and believe me some Maori are crafty, lol but good people ,,, and moon your so full of your own baloney
Can Dr Paul Moon explain why he got involved in desecration of old "pre Māori " burial sites in and around Whangārei at the time he wrote the book "This Horrid Practice " which he was involved in removing these bones ( skulls and skeletons) of pre Polynesian races living in NZ. Heres the link 🔗, Paul Moon is mentioned about his desecration of skeletons & skulls by the late Noel Hillaim on or around 5th November 2008 .Starting around the 45 minute mark.... ruclips.net/video/Vh5iId6y0dw/видео.htmlsi=JHTSksC3FA1uLzQY
@@warrenmartin2982 yep ,The real History of NZ.. Pre Polynesian/ Māori history is people deliberately being suppressed in NZ. I suspect Dr Paul Moon is on the Gravy Train Ride Like so many academics in this country.
@@jakeknobel well said ,Academics don't want the truth to be explained about NZ pre Polynesian/ Māori history. It's just to easy to jump on the band wagon of Riding a Gravy Train for what's It's worth. A Dr ( academy name given to him ) without exploring the truth behind NZs history but worse he's deceiving Māori for history they are not open to discussing...
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
This is the best discussion I've seen in regards to this.
Good to hear four reasonable (for the most part) men speaking about the issue. But TPM and others in the opposition part of the house have an hidden agenda and are not reasonable but speak derisively to those who say that their agenda is not true to the Treaty or what they have believed for generations. Alfred took a very personal view in his comments about David Seymore but the issue is bigger than the man. We need to have principles so the relationship works, but the relationship needs to value and honour both parties and work towards a mutually respectful working together for the best for both parties. A marriage analogy only works if we establish the nature and understanding of the marriage entered into by both parties. Marriages are formed and lived out in a variety of ways. A modern partnership, a Christian marriage entered into willingly by both parties, an islamist marriage which has different foundations initiated by one party only, Indian arranged marriages. Many quite capable people are able to do their own research and argue for a point of view and deserve to be heard. Politicians are meant to be representatives of the people but we now have some there who have a narrow personal ideology that they are pursuing, we will never forget Jacinda Ardern's 'podium of truth' and how changes were imposed from above with no transparency and debate.
Great discussion - So nice to see respectful dialogue.
Our starting point should be what agreed outcomes we want to achieve- ie peace, equality and wellbeing for all. Seems a simple and essential place to start rather than trying to figure out what was going through the minds of the various key players over a hundred years ago.
An excellent discussion Bob.
Absolutely awesome - well articulated, Thanks.
I agree all participants spoke relevantly, and eloquently. I enjoyed it.
The ultimate goal of a civilisation is to live in peace and harmony,
An excellent discussion. Some due diligence on my part. I didn’t agree with all the panel’s points but it’s the kind of discussion we need rather than relying on soundbites and the facile talk we get on radio and TV. Well done
Best discussion I have seen by sincere and respectful people. May God bless this country with respect, harmony and peace with each other. Hvl
Why don’t you sit down and talk to Julian Bachelor on stop co governance and he will throw some light on this subject he used to be a teacher
I agree invite Julian Batchelor and Tuku Morgan for a US style debate. Turn the mic off in-between 😂😂
Yep come on family first
lmao. Pseduo intellectualism
But we have a co governance in power as we speak!!
National, Act and NZ 1st.
But we have a co governance in power as we speak!!
National, Act and NZ 1st.
Alfred! 400 years earlier, the visitation! How did that impact your culture? Killing eating each other, wow yes the vistation really impacted them.
Well, what did Apirana Ngata say? Here is a scholar a statesman of the highest order who wrote an essay on the treaty, and he wss closer to events than any one of us today. So why are are trying to rewrite history?what about the final draft by James Busby which has all but disappeared from public discourse? why are we distorting and obscuring the truth. There were no principles in the treaty. I think that maori didnt no know the full impact of colonialisation after having ceded sovereignty and they have been trying to claw back ever since. Colonisation is a double-edged sword. It was cruel difficult but here we are.
The debate & vote should be in parliament.
I would also like to know thoughts or discussions around the Chiefs Conference of Kohimara. I am perplexed between what I’ve been told & what the Kohimarama transcripts of chief statements
We should never accept the corruption of the Treaty Of Waitangi
Ewen McQueen was calm, convincing and absolutely correct.
Very enlightening!❤
What about He Whakaputanga 1835 Sovereignty??
great talk
Reasonable dialogue and discussion
But!! And most important. Will Kiwis "submit to this bill. There is a need to prompting people and advertising to the public! Its important not to attack the person (David Seymour) but the topic.
Is equality important NOW in 2024!!
Let’s hear it from all angles please could you invite him onto your program for people to talk about this subject
No most New Zealanders don’t think… stop astroturfing. We just want to get on together. Stop this race based nonsense. Stop preferential treatment. Because we will be fked if we don’t.
When was the last time you were racially discriminated against by a cop in NZ? Or a social worker? Because Maori experience that all the time, and you don't stand up for non-Maori getting preferential treamtent in those situations. You're weaponizing clinical terms to reinforce bigotry.
The reasoning of the war party Te Pati Maori is about the embedding of the UNDRIP into the Constitution. People need to research Rosemary Banks 13th September 2007 UN Press Adoption of the UN Declaration for the Rights of Indigenous Peeople UNDRIP. New Zealanders are being so lied to..
David Seymour is a good man. Be weary of people who wish to complicate life.
For what gain is complexity 🤔🤔
Simple human rules.
Who needs to understand nuance when you can force false answers in situations that they don't apply, right?
All I Will add is 196000 stood together Peacefully at Parliament Biggest Ever seen in Aotearoa can not and should not just be tossed aside as a non advent.
David seymour is not the right person to re define our founding document.
Can I make a respectful suggestion? An organisation called Family First presumably purports to speak for women as well as men, given that women are the primary caregivers - and often the key decision-makers - in most families. All-male panels (such as this one) provide ammunition to "progressive" critics who like to characterise conservative groups such as Family First as being dominated and controlled by men.
well maybe, but it also indicates a 'gender blindness' in that the topic is more important than gender considerations.
@@mikehoulding5821 You speak as if direct experience has no influence on implicit bias
By calling the Treaty Of Waitangi an Embryo making the Treaty a living document, it can just be changed whenever to fit the purpose. The Treaty Of Waitangi is a Document of Originality. The Treaty of Waitangi did not create a partnership.
Not Co governance but Co operation between different factions. Big difference. Sovereignty was I believe, ceded. And the Maori Chiefs knew this. The Crown did not promise a free ride.
NOW is the time to have a discussion on our future. Bringing the Treaty and a required and "needed" equality into the 21st Century!!
In my view. The historical Treaty as is, is not fit for purpose
Sources: Trust me, bro!
No Principles created by the Treaty Of Waitangi
Not sure if most of us are at the beach or otherwise on holiday
Maybe most of your circles. The rest of us have work to do. Just saying...love your work
intersting very informative
Apparently the final English draft resides at TePapa, The Littlewood draft
Why would u need a final English draft and call it littlewood draft unless it’s a fake!!
I think Brad added a good perspective when he said Maori fear marginalization. While general concepts of 'democracy' rests on equality with one person one vote...majority views rule.
On the other hand minorities fear what they view as being a tyranny of the majority.
Acceptance of the simple democratic rule should involve great care, with checks and balances to ensure we don't ever hear the words of one deputy Prime Minister Michael Cullen when he shouted across the Parliament to the newly defeated National Party members,..."We won, you lost, eat that!"
It is that sort of arrogance that Maori rightly fear, & as a rural person, I can relate to that. Farmers were once reasonably dominate in tthe nation's affairs and had particular local clout in their respective local government rural counties. But more recent local government reforms have typically merged counties with urban boroughs where farmers pay hugely disproportionate rates but have little effective say in the urban majority priorities for say parks, libraries, etc..
I think any restatement of the principles of the treaty needs to be accompanied by much discussion and reform of legislation aimed at protecting individual citizens and minority groups. We need to relook at our quite casual dismissal of an Upper House of Parliament. Also our body of administrative law that constrains the actions of the Executive (Cabinet) & the civil service is particularly weak in NZ.
But a great debate that adds to our civil society. Bravo!
We should go back to Kohimaramara Gathering at the Mission House 1860
The Marriage Metaphor was an insane one. Marriage is supposed to begin with "Equal Partnership" in mind, but the Anti-Treaty Mob would have you believe it was one sided. There blows that example!
We the people do not have an end decision making voice because we do not have a Citizens binding referendum like the government has. We have a Non-binding Citizens Referenda.
Agree with Alfred, I don’t trust Seymour !
It's all about the resources
This is becoming a laughing stock on the global stage, we need to get a grip really quickly.
There is no reason why Tero ca nt be spoken in your own home but it shownT be imposed on all people
There’s no reason u can’t block your ears so u don’t have to hear!!
Tell me you dont get annoyed people taking in other languages around you.
@@wax333 makes no difference to me. U obviously think people are talking about you?🤣😂 it’s not about u!!
Doesn't bother me i speak the reo and understand hindi and spanish. But ive seen people get upset over people speaking another language infront of them
@@wax333 where did u learn the reo? And why are u sticking up for someone who only wants you to speak the reo in your home and doesn’t want to hear any other language??
I don’t believe you!!🙅🏽
2022 Auckland University Korero Convention.. Transformation of NZ Constution is well worth researching what is really going on here. Organized by NZ Human Rights Commission and National Iwi Chairs Forum.
Constitution is a living document and by calling the Treaty a Constitution you then leave it open to be changed, amended to fit whatever purpose and thats what has happened.
Hi Alfred i differ with your point on kiwis abroad i have done a lot of overseas traval and never once have i hear another kiwi ever mention the treaty and say they were proud of it most left because of it what about the musket wars and the french maori were in a mess in 1840 thats why they seaded sovereignty no douts
Why is the government so quiet about the Queen Victoria's Charter 16th November 1840 where NZ seperated from NSW.. This is when NZ became founded as a One New Zealand not attacked to the NSW. A Founding Country of NZ under a British Colony.
The Bill didn’t creat division. The last Labour Part Coalition did. They started changing government department names and mandating “maori” compliance all flaked by He Puapua.
No, the crown did not recognize Maori sovereignty in 1835 via Hobsons creation in invention of”He Whakaputanga”. He wrote and implemented those proceedings without crown support, and it was rejected as not being endorsed by the crown.
This was explicitly stated at the time. And he was reprimanded. It’s plainly obvious that the Chiefs didn’t write it and didn’t ratify it.
The treaty is quite clear that the chiefs retain their property unless they choose to sell it. Radio waves were not know to anyone in 1840.
However the Treaty gave government to the crown. The government has the scope to administer national resources. Radio waves are administered over for all NZers. Maori are part of all NZers. No one shoukdvown tge airwaves. The government administer them on behalf of all.
10th May 2010 Waitangi Tribunal Documentation - The Hikoi is not about the Treaty persay its about Vision 2040. UNDRIP embedded with 1835 Declaration of Independence and now they have added Agenda 2030 as certain Maori/Iwi had partticipated in this as well. Treaty is totally corrupted by the Judicial, Government and also add Claire Charters Iwi Chairs National Forum that keeps on running off to the UN.. and partnering working with NZ Human Rights Commission. This is what I personally call a Tyranny Of Human Rights. We need to get back to the 'We are All One People'
The Treaty is not the founding document the 16th November 1840 Queen Victoria Royal Charter - letters & Patents) NZ First Consitition Act 1852
Who is queen Victoria. And who is she to tell us what to do. She meant nothing. To Maori. Back then
Everyone should read this Bill before commenting on it. In particular, read the clause inserted by Christopher Luxon. Section 6, Principle 2(2). Read by a woke judge, this might well suggest that the Treaty says Maori and Pakeha do NOT have equal rights in the matter of land ownership. Read it now.
Then submit that 2(2) needs to be defined impartially and authoritatively by a panel of historians as essential,before the bill becomes law. Leaving it open to the judiciary is an open invitation for another round of legal dispute and uncertainty.
How was Christianity part of the establishment of the treaty. They were part of the colonization process.
McQueen. Opening question! Wow, what a blabbering waffle.
I personally dont trust Seymore at all.
I don't think it is about the person. I believe it is an overdue discussion to be had
Julian Bachelor should have been on this panel. Principles of the bill is where the problem lies in that it is a perspective and every person's thinking is biased towards what benefits come out of it for their comfort. Go back to the source.
Race division in one country is never going to help anyone. Either all are equal under one law, or division is dooming you to fall.
What would Dr Jordan Peterson say
Pretty much what David Seymore says !!!
Wake up but never woke NZ !!! GET YOUR SUBMISSION IN NOW HOPEFULLY THEIRS AN EXTENDED SUBMISSION PROCESS .MAKE NZ THE NUMBER 8 NZ AGAIN .
DAVID SEYMORE FOR PRIME MINISTER!!!
This bill WILL COME TO PASS SOONER OR LATER ...THAT IS ALL .
How can we protect Maori culture without canceling democracy ? It may take some inspired thinking.
Maori didn't ceed sovereignty they only gave pakeha the ability to govern themselves
Get though your head that Maori are sovereign and we are to govern our self
It's unfortunate that the video fails to mention He Wakaputanga [ Declaration 1835 ] which must be understood as the basis that the Treaty was made on.
As co-author of the 1835 NZ Declaration of Independence Henry Williams protected NZ sovereignty with 2 crucial phrases in the te Reo version.
Tino Rangitiratanga meant sovereignty was retained, not ceded.
And crucially, that governance was only over “British Subjects” which meant only people born in England.
International law dictates that local language takes precedence in treaty.
Realising they had failed; British parliament didn’t ratify the treaty or make it law.
Instead, they lied again and said the English version was law & sovereignty had been ceded.
A few years of debates ensued (England was busy in the opium war) before the Rothschilds upped the ante & brought in their private mercenary army from India to brutally crush resistance.
And a century passed.
In the 1970s however debate started again & finally in 2014 the head of crown law in NZ, the attorney general, wrote:
“The treaty was a failed attempt at taking sovereignty away from nz and therefore the inescapable conclusion in law is that the legal document of precedence in NZ is He Wakaputunga (the 1835 nz Declaration of Independence) and nothing since then has changed anything about that in any way at all”
So even the crown admits the real Govt of NZ is the federal Gvt under He Wakaputunga (the Wakaminenga Govt)
Nothing done by the crown has any legal standing.
The debt belongs to them not to the people.
They are signed to the TPPA, the UN compact, the WHO, etc not NZ.
And why neither councils nor Govt can produce a single document to show they have the jurisdiction and authority to level rates, fees, taxes, etc.
They are in fact an illegal occupation force of a foreign corporation.
Your on to it lad. Nice
the problem is that He Wakaputanga failed because it was not a Maori initiative. The document set in place a formal Confederation of Chiefs meeting in parliament annually to make laws. The problem is that the federation model requires consensus in order to make laws, and as Maori pointed out to Busby afterwards, this was incompatible with tikanga, if one chief disagreed the only way to force a law through would be to go to war. For a chief to be outvoted in a majority was incompatible with mana.. Only three months later a negotiated dispute over land at Whananaki between two signatory Chiefs ended in a rout, with Waikato of Te Hikutu whipping out concealed guns and overturning the decision, driving off Noa and Ngati Maru in a rout. So much for negotiated consensus. Only five years later Pomare and Titore, also both signatories, were at war with each other.
The Treaty was specifically drafted in order to replace the Confederation. with a voluntary transfer of allegiance from the Confederation to the Queen, and the additional allegiance of non signatory hapu. This model worked, because mana was not lost: the mana of each chief remained intact, under the guiding oversight of the Kawanatanga of the Queen- who brought the mana of Britain to Aotearoa as a covering cloak.
There is more to the narrative but thats a start.
@@rogerevans7119 The Congress of He Wakaputanga made up of hereditary and non hereditary Maori, meets regularly, functioning in offering care and protection, peace and good order equally to all New Zealanders who desire it's protection.
Te Ture Tikanga is Tika, [ correctness, honesty ], Pono [ honor ], and Aroha [ compassion ] and this is how Congress/the Confederation and the appointed Kawanatanga Wakaminenga Maori Government functions.
Your narrative does well to continue the masonic agenda but the fact remains that Te Tiriti did not grant sovereignty to the British crown. The document does not state that.
No Kingitanga [sovereignty but not to be confused with the Kingitanga movement which came later] mana or tino rangatira were granted to the British sovereign.
Kingitanga, mana and tino rangatira are for all New Zealanders equally in the protection of the 4 Articles of He Wakaputanga.
Maori ceded sovereignty.
personaly I think your way out on a limb guys , assumption and arrogance , "most people" would say this lol.. most people would agree that Maori like any group will interpret any document in favour of themselve,s and believe me some Maori are crafty, lol but good people ,,, and moon your so full of your own baloney
Hyper-individualistic lenss, that lacks an understanding of culture
This was all caused by Labour an Maori party causing division in Nznow we have to make it right again
No. You blaming Māori party and labour for division is your fault.
Can Dr Paul Moon explain why he got involved in desecration of old "pre Māori " burial sites in and around Whangārei at the time he wrote the book "This Horrid Practice " which he was involved in removing these bones ( skulls and skeletons) of pre Polynesian races living in NZ. Heres the link 🔗, Paul Moon is mentioned about his desecration of skeletons & skulls by the late Noel Hillaim on or around 5th November 2008 .Starting around the 45 minute mark.... ruclips.net/video/Vh5iId6y0dw/видео.htmlsi=JHTSksC3FA1uLzQY
I wanted that asked as well. He has a poor record with these actions. All our history should be known. Maori were not first here
@@warrenmartin2982 yep ,The real History of NZ.. Pre Polynesian/ Māori history is people deliberately being suppressed in NZ. I suspect Dr Paul Moon is on the Gravy Train Ride Like so many academics in this country.
@@warrenmartin2982 thats irrelevant. So is a scruple about bones.
That angle should be self-evident if your academic role depended on it.
@@jakeknobel well said ,Academics don't want the truth to be explained about NZ pre Polynesian/ Māori history. It's just to easy to jump on the band wagon of Riding a Gravy Train for what's It's worth. A Dr ( academy name given to him ) without exploring the truth behind NZs history but worse he's deceiving Māori for history they are not open to discussing...