Reporting in after giving the "Group Fire" rules a test run with my brother, who is ever skeptical with healthy dice superstition. (I won him over by tilting my phone to show him the math work for the cluster die.) Once thing was finding white and red 8mm dice, but those weapons are relatively uncommon... and not often do we have to worry about there being an AC/5, AC/2 *and* AC/10. So we just tend to roll "larger die is higher damage". It seriously helps speed up weapon rolling, though we've tweaked it in places. To start, we roll clusters the old-fashioned way and LRMs are the part we get a little wonky with. (We tend to divide them into groupings of 4, 5, or 6 as needed but try to keep the number of groups as small as we can. Sometimes we get oddballs where we get like a group of 2 or 3 - we use SRM dice for that.) I tried explaining the cluster die idea three times, and each time it sort of fell with a blinking blank stare. The first real trick was talking through how to handle "Lucky". I was glad I got extra "pilot dice" because we decided a reroll just meant rerolling one weapon die and a new pilot die per point spent, rather than any singular die. We have Luck show up enough to make a ruling on this, but not enough for it to become a barrier to actually speeding things up. Second was the head shots, as we overruled it. If someone eats multiple head shots on a grouped fire, they eat multiple head shots. Luck was not on their side, so sad... "closed casket it is". This may also be because we realized "auto ejection" being a possibility tended to leave a lot of pilots alive... so allowing the dice to go snicker-snack on heads? We'll deal with it. (One of my older pilots died, but we're pretty sure he was a spy anyway.) On the movement dice: I saw it once in the background of "Ouchies Batreps", I believe, and adopted it by getting some Chessex 12mm red/ blue dice with black/white pips. Easy to read at a glance, small enough to tuck in behind a base without getting in the way, and go up to a +6 modifier. Red is the modifier to attack rolls, blue is the modifier to defenses; we clear red dice out as we attack so we can also see who hasn't acted yet. When it comes to tracking heat... we have a big ol bowl of Magic: the Gathering Spindown life counters. (20-sided dice with the numbers in a sequence spiraling up the die's sides... to 'spin it down'.) You can get them cheap in bulk, and they're usually not that obtrusive if you're not riding the heat gain on many units at the same time. (And/or running Company-scale things.) If I had to suggest a change, I'd have gotten red dice with white pips to match. Contrast is a bit better than red with black... but didn't find them for sale at the local game store we were patronizing.
one thing about the effects of group rolling on statistics that i feel like you overlooked, is that not only is it boom or bust in terms of the fact that if one weapon lands all are more likely to also land, but also the value of the pilot die can skew the grouping of hit locations. this means that the first person to boom instead of bust is also more likely to group a lot of damage in one place and potentially cripple a mech in one turn. in terms of speeding the game up and making it more fun and exciting i feel like this is still a net positive anyway. less bouncing shots off every piece of armor on the mech and more blowing things up. loving the bat reps, I'm glad I found y'alls channel
Thanks for watching - and your analysis is spot on. The individual location rolling can be a slog, and sometimes leaves me scratching my head… how could two lasers mounted in the same location hit two different locations 25’ apart 😆
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming in my head it's just that the pilot didn't fire them simultaneously. But having them both shoot at the same time and hit closer together does just feel cleaner.
You got it! For more optional and house rules, please check out the blog on our website... this post here captures our current ruleset: dfawargaming.com/home/dfa-optional-and-house-rules
We tend to use dice in 4 colors. No movement: Blue. Walk: Green. Run: Yellow. Jump: Red. It's kind of logic to use these colors because they also symbolize the heat generated.
I'm absolutely adopting these rules in our games. Especially the group fire rule. That speeds up multi weapon attack so much!! We also play Alpha Strike, and it would make a great alternative to the optional Variable Damage rules (which we hate as written!!) I'm loving your videos! Please keep them coming!! It would be awesome if my small group could make reports like yours but sadly we suck at technology! 😜
The way you guys roll for hits, clusters and hit allocation is very well thought out and I very much like the concept, thanks for sharing!!! I would be concerned about the statistical difference to the RAW method, but if you've crunched the numbers and found that it evens out over the course of a game, then I think I might give these a trial run...speeding up the game is a massive bonus. To help aid my memory of what colour dice I am using for each different weapon type, I might apply a transparent colour over the weapons line on the record sheet, so at a glance I can select the correct coloured dice without having to remember different colours for different weapons.
That is a great idea! I wonder if we can get our resident Java developer (Kevin) to add a color pip/overlay next to the weapons on the record sheets we print out of Solaris Skunkwerks...
I've been trying this pilot die method and I like it. While it tends to lead to more "hit or miss/boom or bust" with the round of firing, I would like to know how you did the math in detail for the over all hit chance. The first charts you showed. I've crunched the numbers and have found that over the course of 36 rolls(the maximum number of different 2d6 rolls) if has no impact on the frequency of results. Only the times in which they may be rolled. Which is why I like it. Could you explain the math in detail of how you got different numbers from chain and group. 4:50
Excellent way to save time on Combat. I have a question on your "Cluster" technique. How do you handle a missile systems that do 2 dmg/missile, like the SRM 4 (Inner Sphere)? It's stat line is 2Msl, C2/4. Thanks in advance!
Thanks - and good question. For any weapon, simply roll the number of dice equal to the number of clusters - so in the case of SRMs, they group into clusters of 1 missile that do 2 damage each. So for SRM-4, for example, you’d roll 4 dice. Each 3+ results in a cluster hit that does 2 damage. Let’s say you roll a 1, 3, 4, and 6. This would result in three cluster hits. You’d roll a location for each of those three clusters and apply 2 points of damage to each location. Hope that helps!
@Death From Above Wargaming: This was a pretty good video. Very helpful and informative. Looking at the rules you came up with, for LRMs, it looks like you put them into 5 missile clusters. Some of your battle reports, the SRMs were rolled separately(due to being smaller amounts of missiles from the racks). Due to the shotgun sandblasting nature of LBX AC cluster munitions, are you rolling those individually for hit location, as the CBT rules have them?
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming All 20 per LBX 20! The "golden BB" must live on! Which rule do you guys prefer using? The TAC, or the Floating Critical rule?
Hello DFA Wargaming! Got some rules questions in regards to cluster rules and group weapon firing. How do the cluster rules apply to Ultra/Rotary Autocannons? While they aren't Cluster weapons, they do use the Cluster hit table. In addition to this, group fire and jams. How does this interact with multiple Ultra/Rotary Autocannon jams? For instance, a Clan Bane/Kraken 'mech firing multiple UACs, and some jam during the to-hit roll. How would we determine which UAC jams?
Question: I like the cluster hit rule and am going to give it a try next game. Where in the clan era so how do you handle anti Missile systems? Off the top of my head make 1,2,3 rolls a miss, or subtract 1 cluster of hits.
Hey Andrew - I have all the numbers on this and will release a video soon... but for now, hope this will suffice: For Artemis FCS, see this post here: dfawargaming.com/home/dfa-optional-and-house-rules Here is how AMS would work... essentially, you can end up with either a -4 to the cluster hit table OR -2 (if the attacker has Artemis or NARC). In the scenario where you are facing a -4 to the cluster hit table per RAW: - roll clusters per our normal house rule; a 3+ hits - reroll all hits - there is no "minimum damage rule" in this case, so if all the clusters miss, you deal no damage example: My Archer 2R is firing one LRM-20 at your Battle Hawk. I roll normally to hit, then roll 4 dice to confirm my cluster hits. I get a 1, 3, 4 and 6. I pick up the hits (3, 4, 6) and reroll them. I get a 1, 2, and 4. This means only one 5-point cluster hits. In the scenario where you are looking at a -2 modifier to the cluster hit table (i.e. I have Artemis/NARC and you have AMS: - roll clusters per our normal house rule; a 3+ hits - reroll 3s, 4s, and 5s (i.e. reroll all non-6 hits) - if all clusters miss, the 2 point minimum damage rule applies example: My Archer 6S is firing one LRM-20 at your Battle Hawk. The LRM-20 is equipped with an Artemis FCS. I roll normally to hit, then roll 4 dice to confirm my cluster hits. I get a 1, 3, 4 and 6. I pick up any hit that is not a 6 (the 3 and 4) and reroll them. I get a 2 and 4. This means I score 2 cluster hits in total.
Really liking these rules, thanks! One thing I didn't see mentioned here or on the website, In one of your reports it looked like you limit headshots to 1 per group fire (I assume that would apply to floating crits as well). It seems intuitively that this method increases headshot/crit chances, do you happen to have the percentages on that?
I’m not in front of my comp atm, but you are correct: - headshots are limited to one per group; any other headshots are transferred to the CT (or LT/RT if in the side arc) - we use the floating critical rule, and so we count all of them... this is also because you still need to confirm so it mitigates some of that lethality. Hope that helps! Lmk if you need me to follow up on anything!
House rules: Leg mounted weapons. Currently having zero advantages to counter their numerous disadvantages. Leg mounted weapons should be able to fire at any targets in the same hex as the mech. Currently, mechs cannot target units in the same hex with any weapons. Their lower mountings enable leg weapons to be used to defend against enemy infantry, protomechs, and vehicles in the same hex. Ammo explosions: According to even the earliest BT fluff, mechs last for years, passing from generation to generation, being rebuilt time and again. This is impossible to reconcile with the rules as is, where if a mechs internal CT is destroyed, it is completely destroyed. To bring both fluff and rules together is simple. Ammo explosions for all units follow the same rules as Areospace fighters (They do 1/10th their normal damage). Add to that, machine gun ammo, by it's very nature (being mostly solid brass casings and steel bullets, with relatively tiny gunpowder charges for propellant), does 1/100th damage. This change would cause many more mechs to be able to survive being completely destroyed outright, instead merely crippled, by an ammo explosion and the resulting pilot injuries. This would allow for more forced withdrawl and thus, less mech destruction. Water movement: Allow mechs to use running movement in water. I have never understood this rule in the first place.
Hah! Great points and especially agree on the fluff of ‘mechs lasting forever vs. gameplay where you 6 mechs are dead within the first 70 seconds of engagement 😁 Changing those mechanics (ammo exp) have a huge impact on BV though so we have left those rules alone. Alpha Strike does a little bit of a better job with ammo I think! Mechs that are usually walking bombs survive much better and are enjoyable to play. 🙂
I am about to play my 1st game with NARC and it adds a +2 to the clusters table. Artemis also adds a +2. How do you figure this in with your cluster system? On a related question, AMS can reduce clusters. How is this figured into this system? Thanks for your help and assistance.
I like these house rules and my wife and I are going to adopt them for out games. Especially since it will help us teach our daughter without having games drag on too long. I'm curious though how the cluster fire works with clans? Because of the lower gunnery value and things like t-comps would the group fire lead to more boom turns or still average out the same?
Cool! Yah its a good question on targeting computers - I (think?) they are interacting directly with the TN on aimed shots (or called shots, whatever it is) so that would certainly result in a more lethal game, but hey :) Incidentally, I did run the numbers on using artemis equipped launchers. Just use the same 3+ cluster rules, but additionally reroll any 1s (one time). Math for that works out almost identically to the +2 bonus from artemis equipped launchers.
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming I am using Gunnery 2 and Piloting 3 stats across the board to speed up the game (I've found that it takes WAY too long otherwise). Have you happened to be able to gather more information for how the houserules would impact this? Would it still be 'balanced' to use?
Correct! Here is how AMS/Artemis/NARC, etc works: w/ Artemis or NARC (+2 to cluster hit table) confirm cluster on a 3+ reroll any 1s apply a minimum damage of 2 if all clusters miss vs. AMS (-4 to cluster hit table) confirm clusters on a 3+ reroll all 3s, 4s, 5s, and 6s (reroll all the initial confirms) no minimum damage applies if all clusters miss ** note that the defending player must declare they are engaging AMS per the normal rules w/ Artemis or NARC vs. AMS (-2 to cluster hit table) confirm clusters on a 3+ reroll 3s, 4s, and 5s (6s automatically confirm without a reroll) apply a minimum damage of 2 if all clusters miss
After watching this a few times now, my kids and I are excited to finally give this a try. I feel that we would certainly play more often if we can speed things up. Thanks for the videos! Quick question, where do you guys source all of your dice, I hope I didn't miss it in the video?
Hey Matthew! Glad to hear it 😁👍 my dice are Koplow brand, but chessex is also great to find all of these colors in various sizes. Amazon is my go to, ebay as well!
Thanks for the comment and great question! SRMs are resolved similarly to LRMs, except SRMs (per RAW) are grouped into clusters of 1 missile (2 damage each). For example, if I am firing an SRM-6 ... I would roll normally to hit, then (assuming I hit of course) I would pick up 6 dice and roll ‘em... since the SRM-6 fires six missiles, and they group into clusters of 1 missile each... For each 3+ I roll, I “confirm” a cluster hit. Then I roll location normally per cluster that hit. In the scenario where NONE of my clusters confirm (ie I roll all 1s and 2s), then we apply a “minimum damage rule” of 2 points (which translates into one SRM missile, or two LRM missiles); roll for location for that single 2 point cluster. Hope that helps - and if not, don’t hesitate to ask a clarifying question!!
Thanks for the comment - and good question. For anything that confers a +2 on the cluster hit chart, simply reroll any 1s. For NARC and Artemis combined... well, I havent worked up that math yet, but it is on my list as we are looking at moving into the Clan Invasion era very soon :)
I ran a game a while back using these rules, and it ended up being a big hit! If y'all are interested, here's the batrep: ruclips.net/video/RqB23VXNow8/видео.html
I hope this is not to rude but: LRM5(DFA version) is about 27% stronger than LRM5(raw) LRM10(DFA version) is about 11% stronger than LRM10(raw) LRM15(DFA version) is about 7% stronger than LRM15(raw) LRM20(DFA version) is about 6% stronger than LRM20(raw) PN me if you want my math :)
Thanks for the comment - and not rude at all! Numbers don’t lie and your math is spot on! My defense would be that percentages can be deceiving - for example, let’s look at the LRM-5: TN RAW DFA 4+ 2.9 3.7 5+ 2.6 3.3 6+ 2.3 2.9 7+ 1.8 2.3 8+ 1.3 1.7 9+ 0.9 1.1 10+ 0.5 0.7 The same pattern (the lower the TN, the bigger the gap) applies to all missiles/cluster weaps... and the greater number of clusters, the bigger the gap also - so looking at the LRM-20 (at 4/7/10+): TN RAW DFA 4+ 11.6 12.2 7+ 7.4 7.8 10+ 2.1 2.2 So the launchers that benefit the most from the cluster rule are SRM-2s and LRM-5s are very low TNs... but even then you are looking at less than 1 point of damage. So you are not wrong at all! But I’d argue that the speed of game play is worth the small deviation! Always love talking numbers!
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming I don't know what do you mean by TN, and why you add 2 points of damage if every dice miss? This will increase LRM damage extra. Why isn't one point enough? BTW I love your channel.
Thanks!! We choose 2 points since that is the min damage you can ever get from a single SRM... so we went with that (min damage on pretty much everything except an LRM-5 is at least 2 - and LRM-20 for example has a RAW min of 6!). 2 seemed a fair balance that supported speed of play and also kept the numbers within spec. The minimum damage rule was conceived because - if you hit in RAW - you always do some kind of damage... Also by TN I am referring to the Target Number - basically what you need to roll to hit the target after calculating GATOR (gunnery+attacker mod+target mod+other mods+range).
Reporting in after giving the "Group Fire" rules a test run with my brother, who is ever skeptical with healthy dice superstition. (I won him over by tilting my phone to show him the math work for the cluster die.) Once thing was finding white and red 8mm dice, but those weapons are relatively uncommon... and not often do we have to worry about there being an AC/5, AC/2 *and* AC/10. So we just tend to roll "larger die is higher damage".
It seriously helps speed up weapon rolling, though we've tweaked it in places. To start, we roll clusters the old-fashioned way and LRMs are the part we get a little wonky with. (We tend to divide them into groupings of 4, 5, or 6 as needed but try to keep the number of groups as small as we can. Sometimes we get oddballs where we get like a group of 2 or 3 - we use SRM dice for that.) I tried explaining the cluster die idea three times, and each time it sort of fell with a blinking blank stare.
The first real trick was talking through how to handle "Lucky". I was glad I got extra "pilot dice" because we decided a reroll just meant rerolling one weapon die and a new pilot die per point spent, rather than any singular die. We have Luck show up enough to make a ruling on this, but not enough for it to become a barrier to actually speeding things up.
Second was the head shots, as we overruled it. If someone eats multiple head shots on a grouped fire, they eat multiple head shots. Luck was not on their side, so sad... "closed casket it is". This may also be because we realized "auto ejection" being a possibility tended to leave a lot of pilots alive... so allowing the dice to go snicker-snack on heads? We'll deal with it. (One of my older pilots died, but we're pretty sure he was a spy anyway.)
On the movement dice: I saw it once in the background of "Ouchies Batreps", I believe, and adopted it by getting some Chessex 12mm red/ blue dice with black/white pips. Easy to read at a glance, small enough to tuck in behind a base without getting in the way, and go up to a +6 modifier. Red is the modifier to attack rolls, blue is the modifier to defenses; we clear red dice out as we attack so we can also see who hasn't acted yet. When it comes to tracking heat... we have a big ol bowl of Magic: the Gathering Spindown life counters. (20-sided dice with the numbers in a sequence spiraling up the die's sides... to 'spin it down'.) You can get them cheap in bulk, and they're usually not that obtrusive if you're not riding the heat gain on many units at the same time. (And/or running Company-scale things.)
If I had to suggest a change, I'd have gotten red dice with white pips to match. Contrast is a bit better than red with black... but didn't find them for sale at the local game store we were patronizing.
one thing about the effects of group rolling on statistics that i feel like you overlooked, is that not only is it boom or bust in terms of the fact that if one weapon lands all are more likely to also land, but also the value of the pilot die can skew the grouping of hit locations. this means that the first person to boom instead of bust is also more likely to group a lot of damage in one place and potentially cripple a mech in one turn.
in terms of speeding the game up and making it more fun and exciting i feel like this is still a net positive anyway. less bouncing shots off every piece of armor on the mech and more blowing things up.
loving the bat reps, I'm glad I found y'alls channel
Thanks for watching - and your analysis is spot on. The individual location rolling can be a slog, and sometimes leaves me scratching my head… how could two lasers mounted in the same location hit two different locations 25’ apart 😆
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming in my head it's just that the pilot didn't fire them simultaneously. But having them both shoot at the same time and hit closer together does just feel cleaner.
Love this system, makes game play so much quicker. Thanks!!
You got it! Appreciate the feedback!
That's pretty cool. Love the stats tables to back everything up. You guys are awesome 👌
Thanks 😁
I really like these house rules. I'll just trust you on the math/statistics, knowing that it will make the game a little quicker. Thanks for sharing!
You got it! For more optional and house rules, please check out the blog on our website... this post here captures our current ruleset:
dfawargaming.com/home/dfa-optional-and-house-rules
Great method we've used it in our first 2 games, my sons and I and it works great!
Thanks for the link! Things work pretty much how I thought they would based on watching your play sessions. Great ideas!
No problem - glad you like them! 😁👍
We tend to use dice in 4 colors. No movement: Blue. Walk: Green. Run: Yellow. Jump: Red. It's kind of logic to use these colors because they also symbolize the heat generated.
That method works. We use the two dice method because you can easily distinguish and catalog the attacker and target modifiers!
I'm absolutely adopting these rules in our games. Especially the group fire rule. That speeds up multi weapon attack so much!! We also play Alpha Strike, and it would make a great alternative to the optional Variable Damage rules (which we hate as written!!) I'm loving your videos! Please keep them coming!! It would be awesome if my small group could make reports like yours but sadly we suck at technology! 😜
Awesome! Glad to hear that. It definitely speeds things up for us -- and let's be honest, who doesn't love rolling a fist-full of dice. :D
The way you guys roll for hits, clusters and hit allocation is very well thought out and I very much like the concept, thanks for sharing!!! I would be concerned about the statistical difference to the RAW method, but if you've crunched the numbers and found that it evens out over the course of a game, then I think I might give these a trial run...speeding up the game is a massive bonus. To help aid my memory of what colour dice I am using for each different weapon type, I might apply a transparent colour over the weapons line on the record sheet, so at a glance I can select the correct coloured dice without having to remember different colours for different weapons.
That is a great idea! I wonder if we can get our resident Java developer (Kevin) to add a color pip/overlay next to the weapons on the record sheets we print out of Solaris Skunkwerks...
That's really clever, I think I'm gonna have to adopt this rule
Give it a try and let us know what you think!
Just came across this and going to try this with our gaming group. Really great ideas.
If you have played Alpha Strike, you should check out the Destiny craze too 🙂
I really like this. Now to find tiny dice for my small lasers.
That are very cool houserules. I will propose it to my Battletechgroup. 👍
Thx for sharing.
You are welcome!
I've been trying this pilot die method and I like it. While it tends to lead to more "hit or miss/boom or bust" with the round of firing, I would like to know how you did the math in detail for the over all hit chance. The first charts you showed. I've crunched the numbers and have found that over the course of 36 rolls(the maximum number of different 2d6 rolls) if has no impact on the frequency of results. Only the times in which they may be rolled. Which is why I like it. Could you explain the math in detail of how you got different numbers from chain and group. 4:50
Excellent way to save time on Combat. I have a question on your "Cluster" technique. How do you handle a missile systems that do 2 dmg/missile, like the SRM 4 (Inner Sphere)? It's stat line is 2Msl, C2/4. Thanks in advance!
Thanks - and good question.
For any weapon, simply roll the number of dice equal to the number of clusters - so in the case of SRMs, they group into clusters of 1 missile that do 2 damage each.
So for SRM-4, for example, you’d roll 4 dice. Each 3+ results in a cluster hit that does 2 damage. Let’s say you roll a 1, 3, 4, and 6. This would result in three cluster hits. You’d roll a location for each of those three clusters and apply 2 points of damage to each location.
Hope that helps!
@Death From Above Wargaming: This was a pretty good video. Very helpful and informative. Looking at the rules you came up with, for LRMs, it looks like you put them into 5 missile clusters. Some of your battle reports, the SRMs were rolled separately(due to being smaller amounts of missiles from the racks). Due to the shotgun sandblasting nature of LBX AC cluster munitions, are you rolling those individually for hit location, as the CBT rules have them?
LBX could go either way - depends on how many hit locations you want to roll 😁
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming All 20 per LBX 20! The "golden BB" must live on!
Which rule do you guys prefer using? The TAC, or the Floating Critical rule?
Floating. It still results in a TAC, but just doesnt auto hit torso.
Hello DFA Wargaming! Got some rules questions in regards to cluster rules and group weapon firing.
How do the cluster rules apply to Ultra/Rotary Autocannons? While they aren't Cluster weapons, they do use the Cluster hit table.
In addition to this, group fire and jams. How does this interact with multiple Ultra/Rotary Autocannon jams? For instance, a Clan Bane/Kraken 'mech firing multiple UACs, and some jam during the to-hit roll. How would we determine which UAC jams?
I never worked out the rules and math for RACs. For UACs, I’d advise rolling randomly if you have no other way to differentiate.
Question: I like the cluster hit rule and am going to give it a try next game. Where in the clan era so how do you handle anti Missile systems? Off the top of my head make 1,2,3 rolls a miss, or subtract 1 cluster of hits.
Hey Andrew - I have all the numbers on this and will release a video soon... but for now, hope this will suffice:
For Artemis FCS, see this post here:
dfawargaming.com/home/dfa-optional-and-house-rules
Here is how AMS would work... essentially, you can end up with either a -4 to the cluster hit table OR -2 (if the attacker has Artemis or NARC).
In the scenario where you are facing a -4 to the cluster hit table per RAW:
- roll clusters per our normal house rule; a 3+ hits
- reroll all hits
- there is no "minimum damage rule" in this case, so if all the clusters miss, you deal no damage
example: My Archer 2R is firing one LRM-20 at your Battle Hawk. I roll normally to hit, then roll 4 dice to confirm my cluster hits. I get a 1, 3, 4 and 6. I pick up the hits (3, 4, 6) and reroll them. I get a 1, 2, and 4. This means only one 5-point cluster hits.
In the scenario where you are looking at a -2 modifier to the cluster hit table (i.e. I have Artemis/NARC and you have AMS:
- roll clusters per our normal house rule; a 3+ hits
- reroll 3s, 4s, and 5s (i.e. reroll all non-6 hits)
- if all clusters miss, the 2 point minimum damage rule applies
example: My Archer 6S is firing one LRM-20 at your Battle Hawk. The LRM-20 is equipped with an Artemis FCS. I roll normally to hit, then roll 4 dice to confirm my cluster hits. I get a 1, 3, 4 and 6. I pick up any hit that is not a 6 (the 3 and 4) and reroll them. I get a 2 and 4. This means I score 2 cluster hits in total.
Wow thank you for the detailed response. We will give this a try. Great work.
You got it! Enjoy.
Really liking these rules, thanks! One thing I didn't see mentioned here or on the website, In one of your reports it looked like you limit headshots to 1 per group fire (I assume that would apply to floating crits as well). It seems intuitively that this method increases headshot/crit chances, do you happen to have the percentages on that?
I’m not in front of my comp atm, but you are correct:
- headshots are limited to one per group; any other headshots are transferred to the CT (or LT/RT if in the side arc)
- we use the floating critical rule, and so we count all of them... this is also because you still need to confirm so it mitigates some of that lethality.
Hope that helps! Lmk if you need me to follow up on anything!
Wow great idea!
Thank you 🙂👍
Great info as always! On a side note, where did you get your battle mat?
I’d have to rewatch this one but I am 99% sure its PWork wargaming. We also use mats from Deep-Cut studios and Front Line Gaming.
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Thanks!
House rules:
Leg mounted weapons. Currently having zero advantages to counter their numerous disadvantages. Leg mounted weapons should be able to fire at any targets in the same hex as the mech. Currently, mechs cannot target units in the same hex with any weapons. Their lower mountings enable leg weapons to be used to defend against enemy infantry, protomechs, and vehicles in the same hex.
Ammo explosions: According to even the earliest BT fluff, mechs last for years, passing from generation to generation, being rebuilt time and again. This is impossible to reconcile with the rules as is, where if a mechs internal CT is destroyed, it is completely destroyed. To bring both fluff and rules together is simple. Ammo explosions for all units follow the same rules as Areospace fighters (They do 1/10th their normal damage). Add to that, machine gun ammo, by it's very nature (being mostly solid brass casings and steel bullets, with relatively tiny gunpowder charges for propellant), does 1/100th damage. This change would cause many more mechs to be able to survive being completely destroyed outright, instead merely crippled, by an ammo explosion and the resulting pilot injuries. This would allow for more forced withdrawl and thus, less mech destruction.
Water movement: Allow mechs to use running movement in water. I have never understood this rule in the first place.
Hah! Great points and especially agree on the fluff of ‘mechs lasting forever vs. gameplay where you 6 mechs are dead within the first 70 seconds of engagement 😁
Changing those mechanics (ammo exp) have a huge impact on BV though so we have left those rules alone. Alpha Strike does a little bit of a better job with ammo I think! Mechs that are usually walking bombs survive much better and are enjoyable to play. 🙂
I am about to play my 1st game with NARC and it adds a +2 to the clusters table. Artemis also adds a +2. How do you figure this in with your cluster system? On a related question, AMS can reduce clusters. How is this figured into this system? Thanks for your help and assistance.
Check out our free house rules download on our website (in the cbt section)... all that you seek is on page 7 😁
I like these house rules and my wife and I are going to adopt them for out games. Especially since it will help us teach our daughter without having games drag on too long. I'm curious though how the cluster fire works with clans? Because of the lower gunnery value and things like t-comps would the group fire lead to more boom turns or still average out the same?
Cool! Yah its a good question on targeting computers - I (think?) they are interacting directly with the TN on aimed shots (or called shots, whatever it is) so that would certainly result in a more lethal game, but hey :)
Incidentally, I did run the numbers on using artemis equipped launchers. Just use the same 3+ cluster rules, but additionally reroll any 1s (one time). Math for that works out almost identically to the +2 bonus from artemis equipped launchers.
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming I am using Gunnery 2 and Piloting 3 stats across the board to speed up the game (I've found that it takes WAY too long otherwise). Have you happened to be able to gather more information for how the houserules would impact this? Would it still be 'balanced' to use?
Its how we play classic as well… skill 4 is insane. As long as you are adjusting BV cost, you should be as “balanced” as BV can be 🙂
Did I see in one of your videos that against AMS you re-roll every successful cluster and it needs to hit a 2nd time?
Correct! Here is how AMS/Artemis/NARC, etc works:
w/ Artemis or NARC (+2 to cluster hit table)
confirm cluster on a 3+
reroll any 1s
apply a minimum damage of 2 if all clusters miss
vs. AMS (-4 to cluster hit table)
confirm clusters on a 3+
reroll all 3s, 4s, 5s, and 6s (reroll all the initial confirms)
no minimum damage applies if all clusters miss
** note that the defending player must declare they are engaging AMS per the normal rules
w/ Artemis or NARC vs. AMS (-2 to cluster hit table)
confirm clusters on a 3+
reroll 3s, 4s, and 5s (6s automatically confirm without a reroll)
apply a minimum damage of 2 if all clusters miss
Could you do a video on the house rules you use for Alpha Strike?
Yes - it is in the plan to get something out there capturing all the optional and house rules we use!
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming top would love to see your house rules for AS...maybe a How to play video as well
Well you’re in luck! Check back next week and you may have your wishes 😁
After watching this a few times now, my kids and I are excited to finally give this a try. I feel that we would certainly play more often if we can speed things up. Thanks for the videos! Quick question, where do you guys source all of your dice, I hope I didn't miss it in the video?
Hey Matthew! Glad to hear it 😁👍 my dice are Koplow brand, but chessex is also great to find all of these colors in various sizes. Amazon is my go to, ebay as well!
How does one resolve SRMs with this house rule?
Thanks for the comment and great question! SRMs are resolved similarly to LRMs, except SRMs (per RAW) are grouped into clusters of 1 missile (2 damage each).
For example, if I am firing an SRM-6 ... I would roll normally to hit, then (assuming I hit of course) I would pick up 6 dice and roll ‘em... since the SRM-6 fires six missiles, and they group into clusters of 1 missile each... For each 3+ I roll, I “confirm” a cluster hit. Then I roll location normally per cluster that hit.
In the scenario where NONE of my clusters confirm (ie I roll all 1s and 2s), then we apply a “minimum damage rule” of 2 points (which translates into one SRM missile, or two LRM missiles); roll for location for that single 2 point cluster.
Hope that helps - and if not, don’t hesitate to ask a clarifying question!!
How do you guys handle TAG and Artemis with this system?
Thanks for the comment - and good question. For anything that confers a +2 on the cluster hit chart, simply reroll any 1s. For NARC and Artemis combined... well, I havent worked up that math yet, but it is on my list as we are looking at moving into the Clan Invasion era very soon :)
Now I get why in the battle reports you rolled 3 dice.
I was wondering about that too :)
I need some clarification on heat. Is 1 point of heat per point of damage.
For Classic or Alpha Strike?
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming alpha strike
You need an OV or OVL value to overheat... so if you have OV2, you can spend 1 or 2 points of heat to add 1 or 2 points of damage.
how does not using hexes work?
Watch some of our bareps - rules are also in Strategic Ops!
I ran a game a while back using these rules, and it ended up being a big hit! If y'all are interested, here's the batrep: ruclips.net/video/RqB23VXNow8/видео.html
Andy - awesome! Thanks I will definitely check this out 👍
I hope this is not to rude but:
LRM5(DFA version) is about 27% stronger than LRM5(raw)
LRM10(DFA version) is about 11% stronger than LRM10(raw)
LRM15(DFA version) is about 7% stronger than LRM15(raw)
LRM20(DFA version) is about 6% stronger than LRM20(raw)
PN me if you want my math :)
Thanks for the comment - and not rude at all! Numbers don’t lie and your math is spot on!
My defense would be that percentages can be deceiving - for example, let’s look at the LRM-5:
TN RAW DFA
4+ 2.9 3.7
5+ 2.6 3.3
6+ 2.3 2.9
7+ 1.8 2.3
8+ 1.3 1.7
9+ 0.9 1.1
10+ 0.5 0.7
The same pattern (the lower the TN, the bigger the gap) applies to all missiles/cluster weaps... and the greater number of clusters, the bigger the gap also - so looking at the LRM-20 (at 4/7/10+):
TN RAW DFA
4+ 11.6 12.2
7+ 7.4 7.8
10+ 2.1 2.2
So the launchers that benefit the most from the cluster rule are SRM-2s and LRM-5s are very low TNs... but even then you are looking at less than 1 point of damage.
So you are not wrong at all! But I’d argue that the speed of game play is worth the small deviation!
Always love talking numbers!
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming I don't know what do you mean by TN, and why you add 2 points of damage if every dice miss? This will increase LRM damage extra. Why isn't one point enough? BTW I love your channel.
Thanks!!
We choose 2 points since that is the min damage you can ever get from a single SRM... so we went with that (min damage on pretty much everything except an LRM-5 is at least 2 - and LRM-20 for example has a RAW min of 6!). 2 seemed a fair balance that supported speed of play and also kept the numbers within spec.
The minimum damage rule was conceived because - if you hit in RAW - you always do some kind of damage...
Also by TN I am referring to the Target Number - basically what you need to roll to hit the target after calculating GATOR (gunnery+attacker mod+target mod+other mods+range).
I can't say enough how much I dislike the boom or bust effect of the pilot die. I would never allow this in a game.
I actually do like the LRM change, though
I don't like it :( I'm a purist.
Nothing stopping you! 🙂
This is so bad I will never implement this in my games.
As long as it’s the type of bad thing you can’t turn your eyes away from.