Hey Ethan Yazel, only thing missing from Jims post and your RUclips video is the length of barrel. I contacted Jim Kibler and asked this question and the barrel is 44". I ordered the 16 ga. 😊
Thank you for putting this video together. I am one of the gentlemen who has little in the way of mechanic skill and the Kibler kit allowed Cortney and I to pool our skills in order to finish the gun without incident. It is a blessing when people with incredible skill and intellect like Mr. Kibler make things easier for others to accomplish. Thanks again
Ha! Funny seeing you here. I'm watching this video because of your recommendation to my comment on YOUR video. 😆 @ILoveMuzzleloading and @FlintlockOperator are the best! Keep it up y'all!
I did the right thing here…and bought another Colonial kit lol. I’ll get me one of these Fowler kits but I want to put together a kit now, and I’m eager to see these finished pieces on the forums!
I also have a Colonial kit and Im a little afraid of screwing something up. Especially because UPS have damaged my stock and the repair makes things even more difficult. I have to glue a splinter back on to the wood and have to heat the Aqua Frotis afterwards, which then will damage the glue... How ever my collection is lacking a smoothbore and this far easier to assemble kit comes just in time to teach me the first steps before I solve the Colonial problem.
@@PinchinPennies. They even offered it. But Im alittle strange in that regard: I would feel guilty, since it wasnt Kiblers fault. UPS punched somehow a fist sized hole into the wooden box. So I rejected the offer. And Im living in Germany. Sending soch a large parcel over the Ocean is always troublesome. I think I will soak the damaged spot with Aqua Fortis first, hold the splinter down with some stick while heating it up, THEN glue it in place. This way I wont have any undyed spots under the glue.
My pre-order is in: 16 gauge in walnut, although I did consider cherry. Hope I'm in one of the early batches to ship. I'll admit I'm one of those whose skillset is limited, at least for now -- Jim sure knows his target market!
@@dougnanceywoodson5020 Thanks! I've been in the hobby less than two years, but I'm grateful to have discovered RUclipsrs like Ethan who provide so much information and inspiration. I've got a Woodsrunner kit that I plan to finish before the Fowler arrives.
Nice video. I'll be building my first muzzleloader this summer and it's going to be a Kibler. I'm going to build the Woodsrunner from cherry stock from property from my father's place. If all goes well I may try the fowler again in Cherry. I'm bringing it out to the plant for them to decide if it's good enough quality to mill. I'm hoping it all works out. I have a Lyman deerstalker, but want something a bit longer for shooting. I'm wondering if they are going to provide pistols in the future. That would be fun to shoot.
Yeah, me too...made a comment on one of Jim's videos and he replied, making it sound like it was in the works, but that was probably a couple years ago now...
@@ILoveMuzzleloading I agree with that and it’s true of all your “information” videos. Keep up the good work and come to Buck Creek in Linton sometime. This club is a gem. Founded in 1976 and has been a NMLRA Charter Club ever since then. We have a shoot every month of the year except December. Good bunch of people. Our annual Trade Fair in January is a 10X .
Hey Ethan : I really enjoy your channel. anyWho I, hope you don't mind,I have off subject question 🙋♂️ newbie here & question; how about a smoothbore like the 1766 or Brown Bess & Charlevilla 69 cal replica for your first muzzleloading rifle : I've heard there's some fairly inexpensively models from India ! Any feedback would be appreciated thanks much 🙏
The military reproductions are nice for newcomers because they are generally very durable designs. That being said, I can't comment first hand on the Indian imports as I've not ever had one. Some say they are great, others say they are junk. If you do get one, be safe, check the barrel and lock for cracks and stability. If you do decide to shoot it, consider having it inspected by a gunsmith and never overload it with powder.
Last month he showed some originals he used for inspiration, but in a video a couple years ago he had mentioned a fowler by Richard Wilson of London that appears in Jim Mullins' book, "Of Sorts for Provincials: American Weapons of the French and Indian Wars" (p. 53-56). The Kibler Fowler is not a direct copy of any of these, but the three-stage barrel profile does look to me like that of the Wilson gun.
It's too bad that Kibler continues to flat out ignore the significant portion of the shooting population that is left handed. I would have purchased a Kibler LONG AGO if they would offer a left handed version of their wonderful, (but useless to me), line up of smoke poles. Now they're coming out with a fowler I would love to own, have the money in my pocket to buy, and would do so immediately IF they offered a left handed version. You know, it ain't easy bein' green.......
@@cgruber54 Hear! Hear! I would be more than willing to do a probing and exhaustive test of a new Kibler left handed 16 gauge fowler! I will even pay for the privilege!
I’m left handed but growing up in a right handed world I opted to expand my abilities; also I couldn’t find an affordable left handed rifle or shotgun. So - I learned to shoot right handed. Not so hard when you approach it with a “what can be done about it?” Don’t shirt yourself cause you can’t have it your way. Swallow your pride and move on!
Usually not. Trade guns were cheap and plentiful, and so was labor. If an existing gun broke its stock, plenty of gunsmiths would happily make a new stock for it, but most individuals didn't have access to the fine woodworking tools (or skills) necessary to fabricate their own musket stocks. It's a really involved, technical process that's extremely easy to screw up (even today) if you don't have the right tools and/ or knowhow.
@@krockpotbroccoli65 Ok. I thought this was where all the barn guns come from and sometimes there were folks with little money but a lot of talent...the Remington story also comes to mind.
Great question Cornelius. In my research I find there are a lot of similarities to what is on the market today. These Fowlers, and "Trade" guns from the time were mass market, cheaper (in cost) imported arms to sell to consumers. Like the Glock of today. There are self made and higher end arms of course, but many purchased these from a store. The barn guns are great because they are so rare in comparisson, often used up, restocked and fixed along the way, but even many of those were repaired by gunsmiths (based on my research, but I could be wrong)
The price is ridiculous for a box full of unfinished gun parts. Same with all the kit guns out there. This is why it’s such a niche market. I will just keep shooting my Pedersoli Kentucky. It shoots lights out has taken I couldn’t tell you how many pounds of venison. And I paid less than 700 for it when I bought it back in the day. Kiblers finished kits look nice but a grand for a bunch of unfinished parts, then it doesn’t even include the lock. I can buy a very nice cartridge gun for that price. That will hold its value.
*You entirely miss the point of a Kibler kit.* It's not about price point versus the firearms's ability to kill game. A properly assembled and finished Kibler smoothbore fowler, especially the 16 gauge version, is not only going to be *EXACTLY* historically accurate as far as design, shape, weight, and balance are concerned, *which NO Pedersoli muzzleloading firearm can lay claim to;* but it's going to outperform the Pededsoli by a light year. The Kibler fowler's handling characteristics will be so much better than those of any Pededsoli smoothbore that one will have to experience the differences in order to believe in their existence. I grew up shooting and hunting with older, experienced hunters who had purchased first generation Thompson-Center, percussion sidelock, Hawken rifles in .45 and. 50 caliber to supplement their deer hunting seasons. Theoretically, by your definition of price versus utility, a 1971-era Thompson-Center Hawken rifle, which cost about $25.00 in those days, should have outperformed my $330.00 semi-custom, Golden Age Arms Company, brass mounted, curly maple full stock, .45 caliber, 13/16" straight octagon Douglas barreled, Siler flintlock, Lancaster style longrifle by leaps and bounds. I purchased my first muzzleloading rifle in 1971 at age 17, sight unseen, knowing only that a Thompson-Center Hawken rifle, which I had held in a local gun shop, wasn't going to cut it for me. It looked *NOTHING* like the original longrifles that I had seen for years at the yearly *Baltimore Antique Gun Show held at the 5th Regiment Armory.* And, the Thompson-Center Hawken handled nothing like an original longrifle, which back in the 1960's and early 1970's, a lot of collectors would let a punk teenager like me pick up, handle, test the balance, and shoulder. Once those older men shot my Golden Age Arms Co. Lancaster longrifle, they understood why one would spend the significantly higher sum of money to purchase such a weapon over the Thompson-Center. Balance coupled with the longer sight picture of the 40" long barrel on my flintlock, made for a significantly different shooting experience. The other thing was that the Siler large flintlock on my longrifle never misfired or hangfired. Initially skeptical about flintlocks as opposed to percussion locks, those older men soon found out that a well assembled and tuned Siler flintlock was a joy to shoot, as well as being nearly as fast as a Thompson-Center percussion sidelock as far as lock time was concerned. The same thing *COULD NOT* be said of the Thompson-Center percussion patent breeches with their convoluted fire channels from the nipple to the powder charge in the barrel, which if they weren't religiously cleaned, often misfired or hangfired.
For many people the appeal of a Kibler kit is the superior fit and finish, lock quality, and historical authenticity. I grant you that Pedersoli is the best of the big company flintlocks, and I don't doubt you have a great rifle, but that Pedrsoli Kentucky of yours retails now for $1,100. Is a Kibler worth the extra money and time? Plenty of people think so.
You gotta build a couple to appreciate his craftsmanship over the Italians. I bought a GPR kit and totally had to toss the stock into the kindling bin because the fit was so bad I could not finish it. My colonial, and WR the fit & finish speaks for itself. Is it pricey? Depends how you look at it. Two GPR kits cost me the price of one Kibler.
@@PinchinPennies. and a nice bolt gun with a scope that shoots sub 1 inch groups at 100 yards. Can be had for the same or in some cases less money. And it is completely assembled and finished. And I am sure requires much more machine time. The math just doesn’t work out.
@@mattquigley6518 the kibler comes with no fit and finish what so ever. That is left for you to do. It is a box full of machined parts. Nothing authentic about a cnc built muzzleloader kit.
![BRASIL vs. PERÚ [4-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tbyOJKXfQnI/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Ethan Yazel, only thing missing from Jims post and your RUclips video is the length of barrel. I contacted Jim Kibler and asked this question and the barrel is 44". I ordered the 16 ga. 😊
D'oh! Thank you! Pinned your comment so others can see.
Thank you for putting this video together. I am one of the gentlemen who has little in the way of mechanic skill and the Kibler kit allowed Cortney and I to pool our skills in order to finish the gun without incident. It is a blessing when people with incredible skill and intellect like Mr. Kibler make things easier for others to accomplish. Thanks again
Excellent! We've all been looking forward to this for a while. Thank you for being the herald of this exciting news!
Ha! Funny seeing you here. I'm watching this video because of your recommendation to my comment on YOUR video. 😆
@ILoveMuzzleloading and @FlintlockOperator are the best! Keep it up y'all!
I did the right thing here…and bought another Colonial kit lol. I’ll get me one of these Fowler kits but I want to put together a kit now, and I’m eager to see these finished pieces on the forums!
I also have a Colonial kit and Im a little afraid of screwing something up. Especially because UPS have damaged my stock and the repair makes things even more difficult.
I have to glue a splinter back on to the wood and have to heat the Aqua Frotis afterwards, which then will damage the glue...
How ever my collection is lacking a smoothbore and this far easier to assemble kit comes just in time to teach me the first steps before I solve the Colonial problem.
@@corneliussulla9963 maybe you ought to call Kibler and get a replacement stock?
@@PinchinPennies. They even offered it. But Im alittle strange in that regard: I would feel guilty, since it wasnt Kiblers fault. UPS punched somehow a fist sized hole into the wooden box. So I rejected the offer.
And Im living in Germany. Sending soch a large parcel over the Ocean is always troublesome.
I think I will soak the damaged spot with Aqua Fortis first, hold the splinter down with some stick while heating it up, THEN glue it in place. This way I wont have any undyed spots under the glue.
@@corneliussulla9963 Oh yeah, being in Germany I can see your predicament. It’s amazing the lack of care postal workers have.
Yay! Sixteen gauge! I will be building one of these eventually.
I need one of these in my life.
Your next video "I hit this 6" gong at 1/2 mile with the kibler fowler"
@@ILoveMuzzleloading 😂 well, first I need a Kibler Fowler
Finally !!! Am excited to add this fowler to my collection.
Jim and company are kicking ass.
My pre-order is in: 16 gauge in walnut, although I did consider cherry. Hope I'm in one of the early batches to ship. I'll admit I'm one of those whose skillset is limited, at least for now -- Jim sure knows his target market!
You can do it, all the help you need is on RUclips. I have gotten a ton of compliments on my Woodsrunner:)
@@dougnanceywoodson5020 Thanks! I've been in the hobby less than two years, but I'm grateful to have discovered RUclipsrs like Ethan who provide so much information and inspiration. I've got a Woodsrunner kit that I plan to finish before the Fowler arrives.
@@dougnanceywoodson5020 I'll be doing a woods runner this summer (hopefully).
I just ordered one! Walnut, 20 ga
Really looking forward to this... Thanks for the update!
As usual Ethan, another very informative episode … you never disappoint!
16ga?! I’m in love
Nice video. I'll be building my first muzzleloader this summer and it's going to be a Kibler. I'm going to build the Woodsrunner from cherry stock from property from my father's place. If all goes well I may try the fowler again in Cherry. I'm bringing it out to the plant for them to decide if it's good enough quality to mill. I'm hoping it all works out.
I have a Lyman deerstalker, but want something a bit longer for shooting. I'm wondering if they are going to provide pistols in the future. That would be fun to shoot.
I love cherry stocks. I hope they can use yours!
Jim makes some beautiful muzzleloaders. Just wish I could afford one
Save your coffee money or tobacco (if you use) and put it away. When you get enough you can get one.
I don’t buy coffee or use any tobacco and I don’t drink. So that wouldn’t help. My money goes to take care of my family.
@@6610andrewc I've been there. Much respect to you, sir.
Totally understand. I'm taking care of my family as well. Time will come for one I'm sure.
It looks great, love to have one. Great one to hand on to my sons.
I hate to wait but I'll need the "Jug Choke" barrel for Turkey and I look very forward to that version being offered so I can jump on the list!
Thank you for the info Ethan, another great video my freind! as soon as I'm done my SMR kit I'm be ordering a fowler kit for sure!
Hope you enjoy it!
Already ordered a few days ago 😊.. 16 Gau...
Waiting on a Hawken kit! But when?
Yeah, me too...made a comment on one of Jim's videos and he replied, making it sound like it was in the works, but that was probably a couple years ago now...
Excellent review. Very professional. Thanks.
Thank you Stephen, I try to keep it straight.
@@ILoveMuzzleloading I agree with that and it’s true of all your “information” videos. Keep up the good work and come to Buck Creek in Linton sometime. This club is a gem. Founded in 1976 and has been a NMLRA Charter Club ever since then. We have a shoot every month of the year except December. Good bunch of people. Our annual Trade Fair in January is a 10X .
A fowler shipped from UK to the Colonies would likely be stocked in walnut, not tiger maple.
Yes you are correct in that all fowlers would have been stocked in Walnut as that is the go to wood for all guns made in UK during that period.
Yep. I believe I mentioned that Jim reccommends Walnut.
It's been a month-have any kits shipped yet?
Are the under lugs pre-attached so when it arrives, you don’t have to attach them?
I believe so
Thank you for your answer
Thank you !
I am holding out for a 96 inch 4 bore punt gun
If everyone is ordering those fowlers, maybe that means I can pick up a Continental if the demand for them is low.
Hey Ethan : I really enjoy your channel. anyWho I, hope you don't mind,I have off subject question 🙋♂️ newbie here & question; how about a smoothbore like the 1766 or Brown Bess & Charlevilla 69 cal replica for your first muzzleloading rifle : I've heard there's some fairly inexpensively models from India ! Any feedback would be appreciated thanks much 🙏
The military reproductions are nice for newcomers because they are generally very durable designs. That being said, I can't comment first hand on the Indian imports as I've not ever had one. Some say they are great, others say they are junk.
If you do get one, be safe, check the barrel and lock for cracks and stability. If you do decide to shoot it, consider having it inspected by a gunsmith and never overload it with powder.
Looks like Ethan is holding a checkbook..."take my money, Jim!" 😉
Haha! That's my little daily notebook, but It'd be fun to build one.
I'll keep my Ken Netting!
any Idea price?
I can't say on RUclips
Where can I see a photo of an original prototype of this Fowler?
Kibler shows several originals used to design this on his channel.
@@ILoveMuzzleloading So, as far as I understand It's not a replica but a compilation of several fowlers?
Last month he showed some originals he used for inspiration, but in a video a couple years ago he had mentioned a fowler by Richard Wilson of London that appears in Jim Mullins' book, "Of Sorts for Provincials: American Weapons of the French and Indian Wars" (p. 53-56). The Kibler Fowler is not a direct copy of any of these, but the three-stage barrel profile does look to me like that of the Wilson gun.
Is it too early to speculate on the next kit after this fowler? I vote for an early French Trade gun.
I believe he’s said a Hawken is on the list, but no expected release date has been shared.
If it was offered in 24ga (.58), I would have ordered one.
Why no 12 g?
Damn! Now we have waiting periods for muskets.
Im on the preorder list 20ga walnut😊 but i waited a yr and 2yrs for my woodsrunner but they are worth the wait
@@redlemur6073 I'm just getting into black powder and need a flintlock. Tired of the shortages for smokeless. Smooth bore flintlock is next.
Cool man so cool
Iam. Ot sure why i would want one of these
It's too bad that Kibler continues to flat out ignore the significant portion of the shooting population that is left handed. I would have purchased a Kibler LONG AGO if they would offer a left handed version of their wonderful, (but useless to me), line up of smoke poles. Now they're coming out with a fowler I would love to own, have the money in my pocket to buy, and would do so immediately IF they offered a left handed version. You know, it ain't easy bein' green.......
I second your motion! Maybe he could make two prototypes for us to test… “Everyone is born right-handed; only the greatest overcome it.”
@@cgruber54 Hear! Hear! I would be more than willing to do a probing and exhaustive test of a new Kibler left handed 16 gauge fowler! I will even pay for the privilege!
If you read his past comments on the Muzzleloader forum, you will see he his down right rude about left handed shooters.
@@davidlentz9597 I wish he would have to spend a year of his life being left handed in a right handed world.
I’m left handed but growing up in a right handed world I opted to expand my abilities; also I couldn’t find an affordable left handed rifle or shotgun. So - I learned to shoot right handed. Not so hard when you approach it with a “what can be done about it?” Don’t shirt yourself cause you can’t have it your way. Swallow your pride and move on!
Wouldnt the people in the period often buy the metal parts and make a stock by themselves? I guess American Walnut is perfectly authentic.
Usually not. Trade guns were cheap and plentiful, and so was labor. If an existing gun broke its stock, plenty of gunsmiths would happily make a new stock for it, but most individuals didn't have access to the fine woodworking tools (or skills) necessary to fabricate their own musket stocks. It's a really involved, technical process that's extremely easy to screw up (even today) if you don't have the right tools and/ or knowhow.
@@krockpotbroccoli65 Ok. I thought this was where all the barn guns come from and sometimes there were folks with little money but a lot of talent...the Remington story also comes to mind.
Great question Cornelius.
In my research I find there are a lot of similarities to what is on the market today. These Fowlers, and "Trade" guns from the time were mass market, cheaper (in cost) imported arms to sell to consumers. Like the Glock of today. There are self made and higher end arms of course, but many purchased these from a store.
The barn guns are great because they are so rare in comparisson, often used up, restocked and fixed along the way, but even many of those were repaired by gunsmiths (based on my research, but I could be wrong)
Bruh, that's fit.
What does that mean
The price is ridiculous for a box full of unfinished gun parts. Same with all the kit guns out there. This is why it’s such a niche market. I will just keep shooting my Pedersoli Kentucky. It shoots lights out has taken I couldn’t tell you how many pounds of venison. And I paid less than 700 for it when I bought it back in the day. Kiblers finished kits look nice but a grand for a bunch of unfinished parts, then it doesn’t even include the lock. I can buy a very nice cartridge gun for that price. That will hold its value.
*You entirely miss the point of a Kibler kit.*
It's not about price point versus the firearms's ability to kill game. A properly assembled and finished Kibler smoothbore fowler, especially the 16 gauge version, is not only going to be *EXACTLY* historically accurate as far as design, shape, weight, and balance are concerned, *which NO Pedersoli muzzleloading firearm can lay claim to;* but it's going to outperform the Pededsoli by a light year. The Kibler fowler's handling characteristics will be so much better than those of any Pededsoli smoothbore that one will have to experience the differences in order to believe in their existence.
I grew up shooting and hunting
with older, experienced hunters who had purchased first generation Thompson-Center, percussion sidelock, Hawken rifles in .45 and. 50 caliber to supplement their deer hunting seasons.
Theoretically, by your definition of price versus utility, a 1971-era Thompson-Center Hawken rifle, which cost about $25.00 in those days, should have outperformed my $330.00 semi-custom, Golden Age Arms Company, brass mounted, curly maple full stock, .45 caliber, 13/16" straight octagon Douglas barreled, Siler flintlock, Lancaster style longrifle by leaps and bounds.
I purchased my first muzzleloading rifle in 1971 at age 17, sight unseen, knowing only that a Thompson-Center Hawken rifle, which I had held in a local gun shop, wasn't going to cut it for me. It looked *NOTHING* like the original longrifles that I had seen for years at the yearly *Baltimore Antique Gun Show held at the 5th Regiment Armory.* And, the Thompson-Center Hawken handled nothing like an original longrifle, which back in the 1960's and early 1970's, a lot of collectors would let a punk teenager like me pick up, handle, test the balance, and shoulder.
Once those older men shot my Golden Age Arms Co. Lancaster longrifle, they understood why one would spend the significantly higher sum of money to purchase such a weapon over the Thompson-Center. Balance coupled with the longer sight picture of the 40" long barrel on my flintlock, made for a significantly different shooting experience.
The other thing was that the Siler large flintlock on my longrifle never misfired or hangfired. Initially skeptical about flintlocks as opposed to percussion locks, those older men soon found out that a well assembled and tuned Siler flintlock was a joy to shoot, as well as being nearly as fast as a Thompson-Center percussion sidelock as far as lock time was concerned. The same thing *COULD NOT* be said of the Thompson-Center percussion patent breeches with their convoluted fire channels from the nipple to the powder charge in the barrel, which if they weren't religiously cleaned, often misfired or hangfired.
For many people the appeal of a Kibler kit is the superior fit and finish, lock quality, and historical authenticity. I grant you that Pedersoli is the best of the big company flintlocks, and I don't doubt you have a great rifle, but that Pedrsoli Kentucky of yours retails now for $1,100. Is a Kibler worth the extra money and time? Plenty of people think so.
You gotta build a couple to appreciate his craftsmanship over the Italians. I bought a GPR kit and totally had to toss the stock into the kindling bin because the fit was so bad I could not finish it. My colonial, and WR the fit & finish speaks for itself. Is it pricey? Depends how you look at it. Two GPR kits cost me the price of one Kibler.
@@PinchinPennies. and a nice bolt gun with a scope that shoots sub 1 inch groups at 100 yards. Can be had for the same or in some cases less money. And it is completely assembled and finished. And I am sure requires much more machine time. The math just doesn’t work out.
@@mattquigley6518 the kibler comes with no fit and finish what so ever. That is left for you to do. It is a box full of machined parts. Nothing authentic about a cnc built muzzleloader kit.