I guess I only copied over half of the time stamps and didn't share the links! Description has been updated with links to the: - USCG Documents - WIRED Federal Investigation Article (Behind a Paywall) - Forensic Cats Channel - My Underwater Anode Welding Video Feel free to have a look & report back if you find anything interesting! Here is my email if you want to reach out directly: sspdiving@gmail.com DIVE SAFE!
You directly inspired me to start my own channel. I was working on it, but finishing and posting was hard. @VideoAzores, if you want to know what the Azores are, shameless plug. Thanks for the links, but as someone who is trying to do this sort of thing too it's easy to forget part of the process when it's a new process. Your doing super great! As I look at their promotional materials, there are definitely things in them that they didn't know showed a company culture of half-assery. They hired people who wouldn't know better and acted like this was all normal operations for any company when it really wasn't. The failures of the construction, which were just glued together with two different materials, are being proudly shown. Everyone who knew better told them not to. It's obvious the issue was systematic, meaning effecting everything within the system. That culture was set by Stockton Rush.
I used to work in aerospace and part of my job was a bonding technician. I had to take 2 exams before I was let loose in the bonding room. When we used any adhesive or sealer, we had a log book in which we were to note temperature and humidity in the room. Alongside that, all adhesive batch numbers and expiry dates were logged and then the time you started mixing the adhesive, finished mixing the adhesive then the time you started applying the adhesive and the finish time. This stuff is taken very very seriously in the aerospace world as you can imagine. Looking at those photos inside that big dusty hanger doesn't inspire confidence let alone using any old brush or rag to apply the adhesives.....what happens when you lose some bristles? Or lint comes from a towel?? I always used PTFE tools to apply anything I had to on my workpieces.
I worked for Sunseeker boats and just for the hulls temp was strictly controlled as was air quality in a building DESIGNED for that purpose Lloyds would NOT insure them if ANY steps were missed batches were noted while dates were controlled by the stock room to always ensure fresh resins there was ALWAYS a paper trail years later in DRAINAGE lining the paper trail continues! would I have laminated this in this fashion? NO! the weave was wrong along with the wet out there was no pressure cure or vacuum in place so air bubbles were added the resin/ glues/ carbon fibre all unknowns temp? mix ratio? contaminants? cure time? and finally I totally agree on environment here it should be looking like an operating theatre NOT an warehouse!! great comment and have a great day :)
The whole section about the glue was really interesting, I hadn't seen any of the details about that. I'll go check out the other channel you mentioned too. Seeing the temp stats for that loctite is especially shocking when you consider the Titan was left outside all year during freezing Canadian winters. The combo of those below 0 temps, the cycle of frost and snow, and the sun beaming down on it and heating it woulda really shortened that glues lifespan imo. That sorta sub should have been stored in a temp controlled environment imo. I've seen car collectors take better care of their vehicles than Oceangate ever did. Seen Lambo's costing half of what Titan cost to build, and owners who'd never tow them like Titan was, never leave them out in frigid winter like Titan was etc. That sub was built poorly to begin with (especially for what she was made for), but the way she was treated afterwards is just CRAZY to me.
I wrote service documentation for 30 years. This "manual" is a laugh. There are no graphics, no callouts, no cross-references to other procedures. No authoring software. Somebody didn't know what they were doing, here! The end result speaks for itself.
S Rush will be remembered for his very smart analysis which stated ; Safety stifles innovation. And ; Rules are meant to be broken. Maybe he wasn’t as smart as he thought?
This is my first time seeing the pass throughs between hull and outside systems via holes in the titanium ring. Even that seems dodgy to me, just more and more failure points
Well it's one of those things that really done matter. Even if the best glue in the world was used, it still didn't stand a chance. Glue is just probably another failure of theirs.
@@JoeKyser When I saw video of them gluing the hull to the titanium ring, I thought that looked extremely dodgy. Glue isn't meant to withstand 5,000 psi. The whole thing screams "AMATEUR".
It’s amazing that this death machine lasted under pressure as much as it did, before material fatigue finally gave way… it’s obvious the engineers were not material scientists or structural engineers… the design was amateur at best… this could be when accounting overseeing a design…but from I can see, it was pure stupidity…
the dummies at Oceangate relied on deep sea pressure to seal up any complications with their hull design. It worked when they had a leaky hatch on a previous shallow dive with a different submersible. Rolling with this idea at 12,000 feet underwater was just plain stupid
Ps. Don't forget to check and change the sacrificial annode rod in your water heater every once in a while. It's a whole lot cheaper to replace the annode rod than to replace the entire water heater.
How often would you suggest replacing it? My dad had to replace his water heater years back & I knew the anode had never been replaced so want to make sure he stays on top of this one
Excellent analysis and presentation. Glad I found your channel; I'm always interested in the perspective of professionals across various industries. I find your diving work fascinating and appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I was wondering when the 'news' would pick up on the forensic accounting into the financials of OceanGate. There's no way the feds wouldn't be following the money and then gladly handing off their findings to the US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York to prosecute. Stockton Rush and OceanGate are proving to be the submersible equivalate to Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos. Almost identical business models. Keep up the good work!
I just found this channel, and this is finally answering the questions I have. This should have been shown at the Coast Guard hearings. It really would have cleared up the issues.
Oceangate fangirl Renata testified she "wasn't worried" during the 8 hour delay after the sub lost all communications... because she believed the crew was "exploring the Titanic wreck, and having the time of their lives."
Oh yeah, Renata. The moron who said that she was not crying or scared when Rush got the Titan caught on lines of the Andrea Doria for 45 minutes. That's when the game controller got thrown at Lockridge by Stockton and in 15 minutes they were free. During her testimony of pure lies, she was crying. And denied that any of that happened. She is a bad liar and a fan girl BTCH
I can’t believe that they didn’t ‘wind’ or build up all the carbon fiber layers in a static-free & dust-free clean room where dust and other particles would not be able to contaminate the layers of carbon fiber.
That is pretty shocking. Back in the 1980s we needed to wind some epoxy reinforced coils for a military project. The fun part was actually getting the winder to operate in a vacuum chamber to eliminate any air bubbles, but we did it. I think this was an impractically large structure to make as one offs in this way, and the transport to and from the curing station was complete alarm bells - how do you ensure that the surface is not contaminated with moisture on the way back? This was an attempt at making a submersible with bicycle level technology - and a lot of carbon fibre bicycle frames are pretty dodgy too.
@@dr.valbell6427 If someone had told them that they were as much "mission specialists" as the first Soviet dog sent up into orbit and just left to die up there, would they have had second thoughts?
It's shocking for sure. I worked in the automative industry for a bit where we had composite panels. They were made in a closed off environment, with people wearing full dust-proof suits/hats/shoe coverings, as well as the glue (applied by robots) in dust proof area, and the ovens. And this was for CARS.
I have 0 diving experience and I’m no engineer but seeing how they threw this thing together is crazy. You’d think they’d have it in some kind of clean room environment free of dust and humidity. It looks like a regular shop/warehouse. There’s videos where they’re touching it with bare hands after they degreased it. Money can’t buy common sense.
I hope they used reagent grade MEK and toluene - the usual paint thinner grade can be pretty bad... Just what I wanted to see was the properties of the adhesive - I ended up downloading Loctite's data sheet - might get a sample.....wait! An aluminum filler in the adhesive? Major bummer! The electromotive series might have got 'em....whoda thunk it? Finally, thought at first the lithium blanket was the type firefighters put over Li battery fires! Great video, thank you!
Thank you Steven. It seems there was an additional document they had which provided additional details, hopefully someday we will have access to it. All I know about toluene or MEK is it is commonly used to thin our “Aquaseal” sealant which use to repair our drysuit, waders, lift bags, etc. I tried to find toluene recently and it was incredibly difficult to find for some reason. Ended up buying a gallon can from the paint store that was damaged during shipment lol. Thank you for the kind words, glad you enjoyed it.
Great analysis and video presentation !! Wow ! Really amazing how much bubble gum and rubber band engineering went on with this version 2 submersible Titan. I can't believe anyone would get into this high school level science project on land let alone in 12,500 feet of water 400 miles off Nova Scotia....this after towing it 400 yards behind a shop for 22 hours in heaving 4 to 8 foot waves and 20 knot winds !! It's amazing it took 13 dives to finally implode and unfortunately fatally !!! Totally avoidable and extreme case of reckless endangerment of human lives and gross negligence on behalf of Ocean Gate. Unbelievable really !! It's like designing and building your own backyard nuclear submarine....then with zero testing, zero certifications or build standards met and then just taking people out for over night tourist rides like it's an amusement ride for unsuspecting wealthy people. No concern or compliance with any Coast Guard regulations or rules.!! Crazy !!!!!!
@@johnneyland3334 the craziest part is they were able to make successful dives. It is bonkers bananas to see the design and manifacture process. This particular video does a good job mentioning the chemistry. Playing fast and loose with physics? Ok. Fair. Playing fast amd loose with manufacturing and chemistry in a hostile environment with lives on the line is criminal.
It's bc they charged such high prices people assumed it must have solid r&d, engineering, design, materials, manufacture, expert guidance, etc. If you put a sign up that said free rides or $5 rides on experimental home made sub no one would agree and rightly assume it was worthless and risky. But bc he charged 100,000's $ people assume it had value and was safe. Even the disclaimer people had to sign he brushed off like "oh we just have to put this stuff in here just like when you do anything these days" - people have become numb to long disclaimers. Since most don't mean anything but CYA they can't recognize one that has real and likely risks.
Someone sent me your link, thanks for the credit and I will give you a bonus... recall, it's reported that the inside would have gallons of water pouring out after they would take a dive ... This is important because the electrolysis reaction will come from all this "fluid" (I say fluid bc the source of the water is questionable to me)... I will not critique your video on other points because I think you will learn more as you educate yourself and don't be shy, you can reach out to me if u have questions... Wish u luck on all your dives (remember, luck , is always the winner and beats skill all the time)... Skull is awesome but luck beats skill bc sometimes we forget our skills when we need them and luck would have won)...
Appreciate you reaching out & appreciate your investigative work. It has certainly helped in my research. From day one I was intrigued, especially since they reached out to our company to provide emergency dive support for dives in the puget sound. Someone I know also took a job with them prior to the implosion but I never thought folks would be interested in my perspective. In simple terms, the fluid was from respiration but obviously there is more to that such as the difference between inside cockpit & the ambient temperature. In any case, pleasure to meet you and look forward to chatting with you in the future. Keep up the good work, cheers🤙🏼
@@SSPDIVING interesting that your company was connected with them... I have a few models coming out next week and only have one issue to resolve and then I am done-until better images of the debris field are released. The thrusters are my major conflict; I'll explain in a future video after I present the multiply different versions of the hull failure (I will start posting on Monday or Tuesday) ... Keep educating yourself and never be afraid to adjust your position based on new data... I have zero confidence in the "Bart Kemper" report (they have conflicts of interest (per their end goals and that he worked on the FEA of the window - that the U.S. Coast Guard had to correct his hearing statements with factual timelines)... Interesting, they watch my work and then only beat me up when I slammed their report for being "structurally" defective --- a submersible is not designed like a "bridge" ... The glue/epoxy was wrong and the aft cone was stressing the aft segment ''connections" and these connectors were insufficient for the time - duration...
The PSI between the adhesive and the ocean pressure is not equivalent, because the "square inches" part of that is a different area. The adhesive references the surface area between the mated surfaces. The water pressure would be used to calculate force based on the external surface area in contact with water. They're just not really equivalent.
While true, the water would squeez into the smallest gap and press onto the loctite epoxy on itself, which might cause fractures on its own from compression failure. Besides, the full preassure from the endcups would also press vertically onto these mating surfaces snd thun onto the epoxy, and given that the water acts on the whole stern area of the cylimder, while the loctite epoxy is only on the 5" wall would also give a huge leverage effect. That was definitly a dumb choise.
those separation blocks will on the lower support, will cause depression even microscopic on the other end , will cause a weak spot under pressure. On seeing this contruction there is no way in hell i would get in one of those things , its a water coffin
That is a great observation. It crossed my mind but I didn’t even think of mentioning it. The entire sub weighs 22,000 lbs. I forget how much the carbon fiber weighs, I would guess at least 5,000 lbs.
Those are cheap Chinese 1/2/3 blocks, and they've got them standing up on a narrow edge. They're only using three so it will sit firmly no matter how far off it is. They also have a big set of parallels and a table with slots for T-bolts, and they're using none of it. It's just standing up where it wants to stand. They're using woodworking methods with the real setup tools as props.
Ocean gate did not put the hull in a autoclave. Apparently they wrapped it up during the curing process because Stockton was too cheap to transport it to a facility that had a large enough autoclave to fit the hull. That was a big mistake, one of many. I noticed that the epoxy they used was designed for excessive heat. Like in an aircraft around certain areas like engine cowlings etc. As the temperature gets lower, the performance of the epoxy is less. The lowest temp stated was 67 degrees. At the depth of the titanic is probably close or lower than freezing. Having a clean surface to apply the epoxy needs to be spotless clean. Yet they only cover it aluminum foil? Also at what point did they scuff/sand the surface of the carbon fiber? Can you imagine all the particulates floating around? This process should have been done in a clean room or something very close. But instead a filthy dirty shop or warehouse? These guys were clowns and 5 are dead, 4 innocent. I could go on and on. Thanks for covering this, I have learned more about these dreamers who thought 'Safety is just a waste' (Stockton Rush)
I'm surprised they didn't just grab the big bottle of red Loctite off the shelf. That's what most people seem to use for everything, and it's usually the wrong choice too.
Was there anything about the smoke hoods in the operations manual? The only mention I saw was to hoods with a 30 minute endurance, which would be impossibly optimistic when you're in a sealed environment that's going to take longer than that to reach the surface...
I enjoy your knowledgeable commentary. Spoken by someone with real knowledge about literally “your life or death” depends on this equipment and how you use it. Sounds like their financial situation was as iffy as their engineering math skills were. 4x9000 lumens = 36000 lumens NOT 38000! A10,000 psi one gallon air tank will only fill a one gallon ballast tank @ 5,000 psi water pressure. Two gallons total @ 1/2 the original tank pressure.
I’m actually surprised that Rush used any glue at all. I’d expect him to use a friction joint by heating the titanium and freezing the carbon fiber and then pressed them together. Remember this is the same guy that rationalized only using four of the bolts to close the hatch. That worked out well when he did that too.
I studied metallurgy during my engineering training. The most impressive metal I came across in class was nimonic which is an alloy . Its actually even more tensile , denser , fire and corrosion resistant than S. Steel , Literally bomb proof !
Surely the application of adhesive would be with a stiff brush or a small trowel, not towel. Not a big point but simple spelling mistakes in a critical application document can lead to misinterpretation and mistakes happening. I don't think there was a significant galvanic problem, the epoxy would have insulated the aluminium filler. The real problem seems to be the sheer strength of the bond, as you pointed out the 1600psi difference. The flanges on the titanium rings would be bearing this entire load, and look far to thin to accomplish that, consequently they failed. At 40:33 regarding dealing with a fire, the last point (10) instructs setting the O2 "... flow at 0.25 - 0.50 ltr/hr per person". Surely that should be l/min. No one could survive on 0.25 litres of oxygen an hour! Wrong abbreviation for litre (ltr not l) and a flow rate well below survivability totally expose the whole operating manual as amateurish and dangerous. This whole endeavour was an accident waiting to happen!
I still want to know how this death trap was ever allowed to be used by anyone much less charge people to go anywhere in it! I’m still astonished that a government entity didn’t prohibit this nonsense. I love your content though! Very impressive.
OSHAwas given a huge opportunity to step in and they pull the Pontius Pilate routine of washing their hands off it. The OSHA failure in this whole Kill chain is absolutely disgusting. But it's being totally swept under the rug.
JMH Films has the complete testimony of the former Director of Marine Operations of Ocean Gate who was fired by them . Very interesting to here. I highly recommend watching all 3 parts.
I agree tuppy! It was eye opening, will definitely use some of his quotes when we dive into the mind of Stockton rush. That will be an interesting episode.
Just a suggestion but could the TITAN video playlist be put in order to make it easier to listen/watch. You might get more views from people who would be interested in watching/listening without having to search through the playlist for the next one.
@@Beaker709 thank you for the suggestion! I assumed they would automatically organize themselves. It has been updated. Can you let me know if it’s in order on your end now?
@SSPDIVING Good for me, too. I live in St. John's, the port where Titan used to leave to go to the Titanic site, so have been interested in the details of what happened since all of those reporters invaded over a year ago. Look forward to the rest of your videos.
Part of the haste with the curing, as far as I understood it, was wrinkles. Any tiny wrinkle near the bottom of the layers of apoxy and fiberglass would, by the top, be a large fold. By applying and curing each layer rapidly, they hoped that it would be malleable enough for the pressure of the next layer to keep it from deforming, and since they were doing another curing so rapidly after, the lower layers should finish. Of course, that's just one of many many issues with the construction, because it didn't work.
Yes, the shear resistance is pretty much immaterial. What matters in this case is the bulk resin properties. Can it resist the external water pressure acting sideways across the joint? The axial pressure on the joint is not the water pressure. That's because the water pressure is exerting a total force on the dome which has to be resisted by the smaller glued area. The bulk tensile modulus is about 46MPa, and the pressure on the joint is going to be very much higher than that, looking at it roughly the water pressure (about 40MPa) times 5 or so, call it 200MPa. In short, the adhesive has been squeezed to well beyond the limiting tensile strength, but has enough strength marginally to resist the sideways pressure of water, so it will not be pushed out of the joint. I think the tremendous pressure at the actual joint face, the 200MPa or so, is enough to spread the carbon fibre into the recess and fill it completely, so that it won't move sideays due to differential expansion. But when the hull started to collapse inwards, there were large peel forces pulling the hull away from the ring. These forces would greatly exceed both the tensile lap test strength and the much lower peel strength, explaining why the adhesive in the pictures is left adhering to the ring.
The prep procedure should include a minimum profile reading that needs to be achieved or a profile target range.. Where I work we Sandblast allot of the surfaces we apply epoxy to and our or target range for profile reading is 3mil to 3.3 mill and the profile needs to be in that range. Its suppose to be an even consistent profile . Nothing below 3mil and nothing over 3.3 .
@ Sent to my 85 year old engineer dad, he’s taught me about engineering and design fails from bridge collapses to the awful cupholders in my old Mercury. 😂
Thank you! For some reason I copy and pasted all of the links and time stamps. Apparently I didn’t copy everything. I’ll have to update that for you guys. Anyways it’s an article from WIRED. There is a paywall though.
I think it might have been possible to make the center section out of an Aluminum Alloy spindle type assembly then wrapped in carbon fiber for additional safety factors
Yes doing well, hope you are as well! Yes the co2 scrubber was rather crude. I guess in principle they all are so if it works, it works but man… hundreds of thousands invested into the titan, and you have a rubber made container with a computer fan on it. Sometimes I feel like stock on had this sick sense of humor or too much pride in which he wouldn’t dive the titan without a signature Jerry rigged piece of equipment. They did have analyzers so I supposed if it works for works but dang lol
the disparity in cure times is because you may apply a thin coating in an area thats easily cured, or you might have a thicker amount in a harder to cure spot such as under that titanium ring, i wouldnt be suprised if in that specific use case, if ocengate had of consultued locktite about the cure time they recomend for their application it would have exceeded 5 days
Whats really messed up is the fact that Rush’s system for determining stress levels on Titan was actually working and he ignored it and had the nerve to do what he did and get in it because he knew that if it blew then he better be on it too because he would rather do this than be locked up or even worse, lose his credibility and expose his entire hubris.
So, those end caps are not pure enough titanium for under sea use 🤔 not likely the failure cause but the point of sheer on the end caps show orange rust which to my knowledge only appears in titanium composites … which being a composite would greatly affect the failure point?
Great point. I will have to cross reference the photos but I believe the rust is from the imploded o2 cylinders. Stainless doesn’t necessarily “rust” it will more so deteriorate and typically from the inside out. I would imagine titanium would be similar. You can see in my dive footage the titanium bracket I am working on is deteriorating but any rust is transferred by being in contact with bare steel which is rusting underwater. This is all just evidence which could be contributing factors. I personally think the loud BANG on dive 80 was the straw the broke the camels back. Aka massive structural integrity loss in the cf hull. Cheers🤙🏼
@@billsteele495 lol my friend, that’s only a small part of this video. I gave him credit both in the video and linked his channel in the description but galvanic corrosion was not the only issue with that adhesive.
This information was made public by the USCG on Oct. 22nd. Not even two weeks ago. The channel that I referenced in the video, provided that information 7 days ago. You commented within 5 minutes of me posting my hour long video. Which means you couldn’t have possibly listened to what I had to say before acting like I plagiarized lmao. I provided more insight into the information he provided, simple.
The resistivity of EA 9394 is 5 orders of magnitude higher higher than pure aluminum, and very little surface area exposed to seawater (if any; it may have been protected by the rhino liner) - any galvanic corrosion between the glue and the carbon fiber or the titanium rings would have been extremely slow. They did not have any ROVs on hand. Their entanglement plan was "everyone dies unless we get lucky an a 6000m oil & gas ROV happens to be nearby". I think the syntactic foam in the tail was only enough to trim out the weight of the tail equipment (there's no real need for it to do anything more) ; it wouldn't have made the submersible go tail up unless the hull was seriously flooded.
This looks like experimental aircraft building which I told the owner that I wouldn’t sign off the conditional inspection and never let it leave the ground.
Aha! Is that why you need to put a special screw into a tap to hold the washer on? Is that why the steel screw couldn't come off the copper part of the tap?
Adhesives companies need a massive overhaul and more regulations. I can't even count how many times I've seen a shelf life in documents with absolutely zeto way to find the manufacture date....making it useless.
I was a pressure vessel composites Engeneer and my mind stopped at epoxy adhesive. Those are rigid adhesives and do not flex well. Pressure vessels are all about flexing under load. Everything is chosen for it's elastic property. In general this is who carbon/epoxy was a no go for this job. Steel and titanium are unmatched
There would be a shear force between the compressed carbon tube and ring but its not the external pressure, it would only need to hold the force not borne by the hoop strength. It was far from the actual pressure at depth until the tube had failed. Otherwise its basically the force left over beyond what the structure of the carbon holds and the distance it is trying to move. Using the wrong glue is a problem but I would think galvanic corrosion would show visually. You've changed enough zincs to have seen that the thinner and broader areas and corners or sharp points will degrade first. Its still a problem and maybe there's interaction on a microscopic level like pitting at the mating surface but would think that there would be evidence in spots on the titanium. I'd also be curious, how are electrical systems done in a submersible? Is there any type of bonding or grounding like in a surface vehicle? Wonder how that might work and if that could have been able to to actively protect against galvanic corrosion even if accidentally and how bonding worked between different pieces, particularly metal framework.
Just as an information for the sheer forces, the compression is one factor, but the temperature expansion rates are different between the materials and are nearly constant even against the relative forces applied. Therefore the sheer forces will have been ALOT higher. To galvanic corrosion: aluminium is used for fresh water and zink for saltwater, if used incorrectly the protection wont be proper.
Any defects will be ignored. Let’s leave this out in the Canadian winter. Now back to the defects. Any water that got anywhere and froze expanding, then lets put it back in the ocean again and have stress on it going from the other direction. Oh….the lightning strike? It’s nothing. Not important.
I build Radio Control Submarines and i find that Epoxy Resins break down over time in fresh water, I did finally find a brand that lasts but only if sealed over with a sealing coating. And i only go to about 6 ft depth it is scary to think they used it here
It's honestly NOT the carbon fiber. Even 12" thick, cross weaved carbon fiber wouldn't survive multiple trips. I'm honestly shocked they survived one trip. The main issue is the shape! It's LITERALLY INSANE to use that elongated capsule instead of a larger sphere. A sphere is the ONLY shape that can safely and EVENLY distribute the force of the weight of all of the water.
My guess is, at some point, Stockton Rush lost and couldn’t regain control of descent and impacted the sea floor at a high rate of speed. Another possibility during descent, trim of vessel was lost and occupants were thrusted towards and dog piled at end of vessel pointing down. This why it is important to have seats to restrain occupants and maintain vessel trim. I am thinking the glued joints failed because the carbon fiber hull compressed more than the titanium caps. Examination of debris field could determine an estimated depth vessel imploded.
So that's why rust was visible in the ring? Because of the aluminum? Would the rust, which would destroy the aluminum, would it break down the adhesive qualities of the glue? I was trying to figure out why there would be rust on titanium.
I think the rust was from the o2 tank wrapped around the ring. I forgot to provide a visual reference but aluminum will get a white milky coating on it, it does not rust like steel
That locktite actualy has higher bond strength at lower temps. Not shure the shear strength Ive found aero stuff often this way. I used to sell auto and commerical paint. Some very durable coatings were totaly uneffected by hydrolic fluid. But when they got cold would fail the test. Since high flying planes can be subject to very cold temps we didnt sell it and it wasnt approved for higher altatude planes Test Temperature, °F/°C psi MPa -67/-55 3,500 24.1 77/25 5,000 34.5 180/82 4,000 27.6 250/121 3,200 22.0 300/149 3,000 20.7 350/177 2,500 17.2 400/204 1,700 11.7 450/232 1,200 8.3 500/260 800 5.5
I’ll have to double check the operations manual. I don’t think there was an emergency procedure specifically for that. They may have mentioned something under the LARS section. I’ll have a look when I get the chance. I also left a link if you’re interested in doing some investigative work and reporting back. Thanks for the question 🤙🏼
When I wrote assembly documentation for robotics, my three key words were: Inspect, Ensure, and Verify. Most of my procedure instruction lines started with one of those three words. Example: "Step 7 Ensure the locking ring alignment tabs are centered on the staking posts. Inspect each staking post for proper alignment. Verify and document proper alignment with part codes, photography, and timestamps." Thats just one line of assembly instructions and it has almost nothing to with assembly, but everything to do with quality. This "manual" of theirs is absolute garbage.
I guess I only copied over half of the time stamps and didn't share the links! Description has been updated with links to the:
- USCG Documents
- WIRED Federal Investigation Article (Behind a Paywall)
- Forensic Cats Channel
- My Underwater Anode Welding Video
Feel free to have a look & report back if you find anything interesting! Here is my email if you want to reach out directly: sspdiving@gmail.com
DIVE SAFE!
You directly inspired me to start my own channel. I was working on it, but finishing and posting was hard. @VideoAzores, if you want to know what the Azores are, shameless plug. Thanks for the links, but as someone who is trying to do this sort of thing too it's easy to forget part of the process when it's a new process. Your doing super great!
As I look at their promotional materials, there are definitely things in them that they didn't know showed a company culture of half-assery. They hired people who wouldn't know better and acted like this was all normal operations for any company when it really wasn't. The failures of the construction, which were just glued together with two different materials, are being proudly shown. Everyone who knew better told them not to. It's obvious the issue was systematic, meaning effecting everything within the system. That culture was set by Stockton Rush.
I used to work in aerospace and part of my job was a bonding technician.
I had to take 2 exams before I was let loose in the bonding room.
When we used any adhesive or sealer, we had a log book in which we were to note temperature and humidity in the room.
Alongside that, all adhesive batch numbers and expiry dates were logged and then the time you started mixing the adhesive, finished mixing the adhesive then the time you started applying the adhesive and the finish time.
This stuff is taken very very seriously in the aerospace world as you can imagine.
Looking at those photos inside that big dusty hanger doesn't inspire confidence let alone using any old brush or rag to apply the adhesives.....what happens when you lose some bristles? Or lint comes from a towel??
I always used PTFE tools to apply anything I had to on my workpieces.
Ah it’s fine I’m sure….the pressure will seal the deal, 🎉so to speak.
I worked for Sunseeker boats and just for the hulls temp was strictly controlled as was air quality in a building DESIGNED for that purpose
Lloyds would NOT insure them if ANY steps were missed
batches were noted while dates were controlled by the stock room to always ensure fresh resins
there was ALWAYS a paper trail
years later in DRAINAGE lining
the paper trail continues!
would I have laminated this in this fashion?
NO!
the weave was wrong along with the wet out
there was no pressure cure or vacuum in place so air bubbles were added
the resin/ glues/ carbon fibre all unknowns
temp? mix ratio?
contaminants?
cure time?
and finally I totally agree on environment here
it should be looking like an operating theatre
NOT an warehouse!!
great comment and have a great day :)
The whole section about the glue was really interesting, I hadn't seen any of the details about that. I'll go check out the other channel you mentioned too.
Seeing the temp stats for that loctite is especially shocking when you consider the Titan was left outside all year during freezing Canadian winters. The combo of those below 0 temps, the cycle of frost and snow, and the sun beaming down on it and heating it woulda really shortened that glues lifespan imo. That sorta sub should have been stored in a temp controlled environment imo. I've seen car collectors take better care of their vehicles than Oceangate ever did. Seen Lambo's costing half of what Titan cost to build, and owners who'd never tow them like Titan was, never leave them out in frigid winter like Titan was etc. That sub was built poorly to begin with (especially for what she was made for), but the way she was treated afterwards is just CRAZY to me.
I wrote service documentation for 30 years. This "manual" is a laugh. There are no graphics, no callouts, no cross-references to other procedures. No authoring software.
Somebody didn't know what they were doing, here!
The end result speaks for itself.
S Rush will be remembered for his very smart analysis which stated ; Safety stifles innovation. And ; Rules are meant to be broken. Maybe he wasn’t as smart as he thought?
Never underestimate the hubris of an ego maniac.
Nicely said.
Thanks for making things easier to understand and I appreciate you sharing your experiences being a diver. Good job and glad I found your content.
@@gladams55 I’m glad you found it helpful! Glad I can share with you. Cheers🤙🏼
I have watched many reports on the Titan and not a single one has delve in the chemical make up of the adhesive. This is a vital piece of information.
This is my first time seeing the pass throughs between hull and outside systems via holes in the titanium ring. Even that seems dodgy to me, just more and more failure points
Well it's one of those things that really done matter. Even if the best glue in the world was used, it still didn't stand a chance. Glue is just probably another failure of theirs.
@@JoeKyser When I saw video of them gluing the hull to the titanium ring, I thought that looked extremely dodgy. Glue isn't meant to withstand 5,000 psi. The whole thing screams "AMATEUR".
@@harrietharlow9929 the Nintendo controllers and camper world parts don't exactly instill confidence
@@SoulDelSol No, they don't. To me, the whole thing looked jerry-rigged.
It’s amazing that this death machine lasted under pressure as much as it did, before material fatigue finally gave way… it’s obvious the engineers were not material scientists or structural engineers… the design was amateur at best… this could be when accounting overseeing a design…but from I can see, it was pure stupidity…
Well done for giving respect and call outs to other channels
@@theweasel-uf7dn thank you, I try to give respect where it’s due. Cheers🤙🏼
the dummies at Oceangate relied on deep sea pressure to seal up any complications with their hull design. It worked when they had a leaky hatch on a previous shallow dive with a different submersible. Rolling with this idea at 12,000 feet underwater was just plain stupid
Ps. Don't forget to check and change the sacrificial annode rod in your water heater every once in a while.
It's a whole lot cheaper to replace the annode rod than to replace the entire water heater.
How often would you suggest replacing it? My dad had to replace his water heater years back & I knew the anode had never been replaced so want to make sure he stays on top of this one
Great tip, thank you for sharing!
@@iLitAfuseiCantStop I would suggest checking the manual or Google "how to replace annode rod in (insert model number)"
@ Thanks so much. Would you say it’s pretty easy to do? Just wondering if it’s something I can do myself. Thanks again
I can't get enough of this.
I like this channel's groove.❤️☘️
Appreciate that, thank you very much 🤙🏼
Excellent analysis and presentation.
Glad I found your channel; I'm always interested in the perspective of professionals across various industries. I find your diving work fascinating and appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
I was wondering when the 'news' would pick up on the forensic accounting into the financials of OceanGate. There's no way the feds wouldn't be following the money and then gladly handing off their findings to the US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York to prosecute.
Stockton Rush and OceanGate are proving to be the submersible equivalate to Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos. Almost identical business models.
Keep up the good work!
That contractor is Kym Catterson. I am not surprised to hear they used the wrong epoxy. Thanks for the video.
Love your thoroughness in this series Sekeli! Great job again!👌
I just found this channel, and this is finally answering the questions I have. This should have been shown at the Coast Guard hearings. It really would have cleared up the issues.
Thank you both for your kind words, I’m honored and glad you found it enjoyable! Cheers🤙🏼
Oceangate fangirl Renata testified she "wasn't worried" during the 8 hour delay after the sub lost all communications... because she believed the crew was "exploring the Titanic wreck, and having the time of their lives."
You can’t make it up.
Oh yeah, Renata. The moron who said that she was not crying or scared when Rush got the Titan caught on lines of the Andrea Doria for 45 minutes. That's when the game controller got thrown at Lockridge by Stockton and in 15 minutes they were free. During her testimony of pure lies, she was crying. And denied that any of that happened. She is a bad liar and a fan girl BTCH
Renata was just ballast.
sorry, i couldn't help myself.
I can’t believe that they didn’t ‘wind’ or build up all the carbon fiber layers in a static-free & dust-free clean room where dust and other particles would not be able to contaminate the layers of carbon fiber.
Yes, pretty shocking stuff. In a scenario where even the tiniest air gap will compress at depth and accelerate fatigue.
That is pretty shocking.
Back in the 1980s we needed to wind some epoxy reinforced coils for a military project. The fun part was actually getting the winder to operate in a vacuum chamber to eliminate any air bubbles, but we did it.
I think this was an impractically large structure to make as one offs in this way, and the transport to and from the curing station was complete alarm bells - how do you ensure that the surface is not contaminated with moisture on the way back?
This was an attempt at making a submersible with bicycle level technology - and a lot of carbon fibre bicycle frames are pretty dodgy too.
@@EbenBransome they might as well have put those ‘mission specialists’ in an empty pop can sealed up with duct tape.
@@dr.valbell6427 If someone had told them that they were as much "mission specialists" as the first Soviet dog sent up into orbit and just left to die up there, would they have had second thoughts?
It's shocking for sure. I worked in the automative industry for a bit where we had composite panels. They were made in a closed off environment, with people wearing full dust-proof suits/hats/shoe coverings, as well as the glue (applied by robots) in dust proof area, and the ovens. And this was for CARS.
@8:57 you can see them wiping down the titanium ring with a dirty looking towel! Crazytown.
That’s hull version one not the second one which imploded
That’s for another great view, and shouting out other channels! Cheers 🤙🏼
Thank you for the support doc! Appreciate your kind feedback. Cheers!🤙🏼
I have 0 diving experience and I’m no engineer but seeing how they threw this thing together is crazy. You’d think they’d have it in some kind of clean room environment free of dust and humidity. It looks like a regular shop/warehouse. There’s videos where they’re touching it with bare hands after they degreased it. Money can’t buy common sense.
I hope they used reagent grade MEK and toluene - the usual paint thinner grade can be pretty bad...
Just what I wanted to see was the properties of the adhesive - I ended up downloading Loctite's data sheet - might get a sample.....wait! An aluminum filler in the adhesive? Major bummer! The electromotive series might have got 'em....whoda thunk it? Finally, thought at first the lithium blanket was the type firefighters put over Li battery fires!
Great video, thank you!
Thank you Steven. It seems there was an additional document they had which provided additional details, hopefully someday we will have access to it. All I know about toluene or MEK is it is commonly used to thin our “Aquaseal” sealant which use to repair our drysuit, waders, lift bags, etc. I tried to find toluene recently and it was incredibly difficult to find for some reason. Ended up buying a gallon can from the paint store that was damaged during shipment lol.
Thank you for the kind words, glad you enjoyed it.
Great analysis and video presentation !! Wow ! Really amazing how much bubble gum and rubber band engineering went on with this version 2 submersible Titan. I can't believe anyone would get into this high school level science project on land let alone in 12,500 feet of water 400 miles off Nova Scotia....this after towing it 400 yards behind a shop for 22 hours in heaving 4 to 8 foot waves and 20 knot winds !! It's amazing it took 13 dives to finally implode and unfortunately fatally !!! Totally avoidable and extreme case of reckless endangerment of human lives and gross negligence on behalf of Ocean Gate. Unbelievable really !! It's like designing and building your own backyard nuclear submarine....then with zero testing, zero certifications or build standards met and then just taking people out for over night tourist rides like it's an amusement ride for unsuspecting wealthy people. No concern or compliance with any Coast Guard regulations or rules.!!
Crazy !!!!!!
@@johnneyland3334 the craziest part is they were able to make successful dives. It is bonkers bananas to see the design and manifacture process. This particular video does a good job mentioning the chemistry. Playing fast and loose with physics? Ok. Fair. Playing fast amd loose with manufacturing and chemistry in a hostile environment with lives on the line is criminal.
It's bc they charged such high prices people assumed it must have solid r&d, engineering, design, materials, manufacture, expert guidance, etc. If you put a sign up that said free rides or $5 rides on experimental home made sub no one would agree and rightly assume it was worthless and risky. But bc he charged 100,000's $ people assume it had value and was safe.
Even the disclaimer people had to sign he brushed off like "oh we just have to put this stuff in here just like when you do anything these days" - people have become numb to long disclaimers. Since most don't mean anything but CYA they can't recognize one that has real and likely risks.
Interesting reading of the Titan maintenance and repair records. Corrosion problems, leaking problems and nuts and bolts repeatedly coming loose.
They had major gaps in areas that bolted together.
Super interesting, as per usual, thanks!
Thank you for the kind words test! Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers🤙🏼
Someone sent me your link, thanks for the credit and I will give you a bonus... recall, it's reported that the inside would have gallons of water pouring out after they would take a dive ... This is important because the electrolysis reaction will come from all this "fluid" (I say fluid bc the source of the water is questionable to me)...
I will not critique your video on other points because I think you will learn more as you educate yourself and don't be shy, you can reach out to me if u have questions...
Wish u luck on all your dives (remember, luck , is always the winner and beats skill all the time)... Skull is awesome but luck beats skill bc sometimes we forget our skills when we need them and luck would have won)...
Appreciate you reaching out & appreciate your investigative work. It has certainly helped in my research. From day one I was intrigued, especially since they reached out to our company to provide emergency dive support for dives in the puget sound. Someone I know also took a job with them prior to the implosion but I never thought folks would be interested in my perspective.
In simple terms, the fluid was from respiration but obviously there is more to that such as the difference between inside cockpit & the ambient temperature.
In any case, pleasure to meet you and look forward to chatting with you in the future. Keep up the good work, cheers🤙🏼
@@SSPDIVING interesting that your company was connected with them... I have a few models coming out next week and only have one issue to resolve and then I am done-until better images of the debris field are released.
The thrusters are my major conflict; I'll explain in a future video after I present the multiply different versions of the hull failure (I will start posting on Monday or Tuesday) ... Keep educating yourself and never be afraid to adjust your position based on new data...
I have zero confidence in the "Bart Kemper" report (they have conflicts of interest (per their end goals and that he worked on the FEA of the window - that the U.S. Coast Guard had to correct his hearing statements with factual timelines)...
Interesting, they watch my work and then only beat me up when I slammed their report for being "structurally" defective --- a submersible is not designed like a "bridge" ...
The glue/epoxy was wrong and the aft cone was stressing the aft segment ''connections" and these connectors were insufficient for the time - duration...
The PSI between the adhesive and the ocean pressure is not equivalent, because the "square inches" part of that is a different area. The adhesive references the surface area between the mated surfaces. The water pressure would be used to calculate force based on the external surface area in contact with water. They're just not really equivalent.
While true, the water would squeez into the smallest gap and press onto the loctite epoxy on itself, which might cause fractures on its own from compression failure.
Besides, the full preassure from the endcups would also press vertically onto these mating surfaces snd thun onto the epoxy, and given that the water acts on the whole stern area of the cylimder, while the loctite epoxy is only on the 5" wall would also give a huge leverage effect.
That was definitly a dumb choise.
those separation blocks will on the lower support, will cause depression even microscopic on the other end , will cause a weak spot under pressure. On seeing this contruction there is no way in hell i would get in one of those things , its a water coffin
That is a great observation. It crossed my mind but I didn’t even think of mentioning it. The entire sub weighs 22,000 lbs. I forget how much the carbon fiber weighs, I would guess at least 5,000 lbs.
@ any deformation no matter how microscopic could grow a fracture under pressure
Yes David Lockridge. If you haven't heard his testimony , it's a real eye opener.
Preach
Those are cheap Chinese 1/2/3 blocks, and they've got them standing up on a narrow edge. They're only using three so it will sit firmly no matter how far off it is. They also have a big set of parallels and a table with slots for T-bolts, and they're using none of it. It's just standing up where it wants to stand. They're using woodworking methods with the real setup tools as props.
Ocean gate did not put the hull in a autoclave. Apparently they wrapped it up during the curing process because Stockton was too cheap to transport it to a facility that had a large enough autoclave to fit the hull. That was a big mistake, one of many. I noticed that the epoxy they used was designed for excessive heat. Like in an aircraft around certain areas like engine cowlings etc. As the temperature gets lower, the performance of the epoxy is less. The lowest temp stated was 67 degrees. At the depth of the titanic is probably close or lower than freezing. Having a clean surface to apply the epoxy needs to be spotless clean. Yet they only cover it aluminum foil? Also at what point did they scuff/sand the surface of the carbon fiber? Can you imagine all the particulates floating around? This process should have been done in a clean room or something very close. But instead a filthy dirty shop or warehouse? These guys were clowns and 5 are dead, 4 innocent. I could go on and on. Thanks for covering this, I have learned more about these dreamers who thought 'Safety is just a waste' (Stockton Rush)
I'm surprised they didn't just grab the big bottle of red Loctite off the shelf. That's what most people seem to use for everything, and it's usually the wrong choice too.
lol you know I almost used that bottle in my thumbnail but that would have been too misleading lol
Was there anything about the smoke hoods in the operations manual? The only mention I saw was to hoods with a 30 minute endurance, which would be impossibly optimistic when you're in a sealed environment that's going to take longer than that to reach the surface...
Glad the algorithm hooked me up with this, good in depth analysis mate. Thanks.
Thanks for the kind words mate, glad you enjoy it! Cheers🤙🏼
I enjoy your knowledgeable commentary. Spoken by someone with real knowledge about literally “your life or death” depends on this equipment and how you use it. Sounds like their financial situation was as iffy as their engineering math skills were. 4x9000 lumens = 36000 lumens NOT 38000! A10,000 psi one gallon air tank will only fill a one gallon ballast tank @ 5,000 psi water pressure. Two gallons total @ 1/2 the original tank pressure.
I’m actually surprised that Rush used any glue at all. I’d expect him to use a friction joint by heating the titanium and freezing the carbon fiber and then pressed them together. Remember this is the same guy that rationalized only using four of the bolts to close the hatch. That worked out well when he did that too.
I studied metallurgy during my engineering training. The most impressive metal I came across in class was nimonic which is an alloy . Its actually even more tensile , denser , fire and corrosion resistant than S. Steel , Literally bomb proof !
Surely the application of adhesive would be with a stiff brush or a small trowel, not towel. Not a big point but simple spelling mistakes in a critical application document can lead to misinterpretation and mistakes happening.
I don't think there was a significant galvanic problem, the epoxy would have insulated the aluminium filler. The real problem seems to be the sheer strength of the bond, as you pointed out the 1600psi difference. The flanges on the titanium rings would be bearing this entire load, and look far to thin to accomplish that, consequently they failed.
At 40:33 regarding dealing with a fire, the last point (10) instructs setting the O2 "... flow at 0.25 - 0.50 ltr/hr per person". Surely that should be l/min. No one could survive on 0.25 litres of oxygen an hour! Wrong abbreviation for litre (ltr not l) and a flow rate well below survivability totally expose the whole operating manual as amateurish and dangerous. This whole endeavour was an accident waiting to happen!
I still want to know how this death trap was ever allowed to be used by anyone much less charge people to go anywhere in it! I’m still astonished that a government entity didn’t prohibit this nonsense. I love your content though! Very impressive.
They were using this thing in international waters beyond the control of any government.
OSHAwas given a huge opportunity to step in and they pull the Pontius Pilate routine of washing their hands off it.
The OSHA failure in this whole Kill chain is absolutely disgusting. But it's being totally swept under the rug.
This guy is rly good at dissecting + explaining what went wrong in production and under water!
Thank you very much for the kind words, I’m glad you enjoy the content!
Keep in mind they also stored this thing in winter…. Outside… in Nova Scotia.
No worries about it freeze thaw at all I guess.
JMH Films has the complete testimony of the former Director of Marine Operations of Ocean Gate who was fired by them . Very interesting to here. I highly recommend watching all 3 parts.
Are you referring to David lockridge?
Yes David Lockridge. If you haven't heard it yet, it's a real eye opener.
I agree tuppy! It was eye opening, will definitely use some of his quotes when we dive into the mind of Stockton rush. That will be an interesting episode.
Just a suggestion but could the TITAN video playlist be put in order to make it easier to listen/watch. You might get more views from people who would be interested in watching/listening without having to search through the playlist for the next one.
@@Beaker709 thank you for the suggestion! I assumed they would automatically organize themselves. It has been updated. Can you let me know if it’s in order on your end now?
@@SSPDIVING Looks good on my end. Thanks!!!
Thank you for the feedback and suggestion my friend! Truly appreciate that! I learned something new today! lol
@SSPDIVING Good for me, too. I live in St. John's, the port where Titan used to leave to go to the Titanic site, so have been interested in the details of what happened since all of those reporters invaded over a year ago. Look forward to the rest of your videos.
Part of the haste with the curing, as far as I understood it, was wrinkles. Any tiny wrinkle near the bottom of the layers of apoxy and fiberglass would, by the top, be a large fold. By applying and curing each layer rapidly, they hoped that it would be malleable enough for the pressure of the next layer to keep it from deforming, and since they were doing another curing so rapidly after, the lower layers should finish. Of course, that's just one of many many issues with the construction, because it didn't work.
ive learned a ton of stuff from you... appreciate it i subbed.
Clean room, YES. Glue and glue additives mixed properly.Do NOT sand out air "bumps" or other imperfections, you have to shit can hull!
Mixed adhesive should have been placed in a vacuum to remove air bubbles.
Yes, the shear resistance is pretty much immaterial. What matters in this case is the bulk resin properties. Can it resist the external water pressure acting sideways across the joint?
The axial pressure on the joint is not the water pressure. That's because the water pressure is exerting a total force on the dome which has to be resisted by the smaller glued area. The bulk tensile modulus is about 46MPa, and the pressure on the joint is going to be very much higher than that, looking at it roughly the water pressure (about 40MPa) times 5 or so, call it 200MPa. In short, the adhesive has been squeezed to well beyond the limiting tensile strength, but has enough strength marginally to resist the sideways pressure of water, so it will not be pushed out of the joint.
I think the tremendous pressure at the actual joint face, the 200MPa or so, is enough to spread the carbon fibre into the recess and fill it completely, so that it won't move sideays due to differential expansion. But when the hull started to collapse inwards, there were large peel forces pulling the hull away from the ring. These forces would greatly exceed both the tensile lap test strength and the much lower peel strength, explaining why the adhesive in the pictures is left adhering to the ring.
Exactly
The prep procedure should include a minimum profile reading that needs to be achieved or a profile target range..
Where I work we Sandblast allot of the surfaces we apply epoxy to and our or target range for profile reading is 3mil to 3.3 mill and the profile needs to be in that range. Its suppose to be an even consistent profile . Nothing below 3mil and nothing over 3.3 .
MEK is methyl ethyl ketone. I am not a diver but a retired engineer in the aerospace industry.
Thank you for the information sir. Would MEK be safe to clean/ prep the carbon fiber for adhesive?
Ah so, by the standards of OceanGate now I have collaborated with NASA and will use this on my advertising and resume.
Can you imagine if they didn't "shim" it correctly, there could have been a catastrophic failure!
nice Report. Good Dive. Paddy
love the analysis
This is fascinating, thank you!
Thank you for your kind words, I’m glad you find it fascinating🤙🏼
@ Sent to my 85 year old engineer dad, he’s taught me about engineering and design fails from bridge collapses to the awful cupholders in my old Mercury. 😂
"two cups"? Is this a cooking show? 😆😆😆
Lmfao😂😂 not many people know how much 450ml actually is. 2 cups is a good & common reference 😂😂
Its not that kind of movie bud lol
Why wasnt the bonding surface between the ring and hull tapered?
Bro they were hand mixing the epoxy
Best series of the titan tragedy thank you sir
Thank you for the kind words and support. I’m glad you enjoy it!
Love these pls don’t stop
Thank you for the kind words. Can’t stop won’t stop🙏🏼
This was very informative. Please share with us that website’s URL, the website you’re scrolling through in the end. Thanks.
Thank you! For some reason I copy and pasted all of the links and time stamps. Apparently I didn’t copy everything. I’ll have to update that for you guys. Anyways it’s an article from WIRED. There is a paywall though.
How much longer did it take to make this video when you gotta go check the audio is still working every 15min?
I was in aerospace for years some Boeing, and some Gulfstream. This whole inactment was a dumpster fire
I think it might have been possible to make the center section out of an Aluminum Alloy spindle type assembly then wrapped in carbon fiber for additional safety factors
excellent work, much appreciated.
Did they ever factor in the combined weight of all the people on board ?
I was wondering for a while how they got thru the hull with the wires and that.
Thanks for the updates. Hope you're well? That CO2 scrubber was shocking. However, they lasted as long as they did?
Yes doing well, hope you are as well! Yes the co2 scrubber was rather crude. I guess in principle they all are so if it works, it works but man… hundreds of thousands invested into the titan, and you have a rubber made container with a computer fan on it. Sometimes I feel like stock on had this sick sense of humor or too much pride in which he wouldn’t dive the titan without a signature Jerry rigged piece of equipment. They did have analyzers so I supposed if it works for works but dang lol
@@SSPDIVING Mental to think this was acceptable? I'm OK, thank you. Stay strong in that water. 🙏🧡
the disparity in cure times is because you may apply a thin coating in an area thats easily cured, or you might have a thicker amount in a harder to cure spot such as under that titanium ring, i wouldnt be suprised if in that specific use case, if ocengate had of consultued locktite about the cure time they recomend for their application it would have exceeded 5 days
In which case Rush said, F that I won’t have you stifle my innovation! I will just deal with this myself and go to Camper World!
10:00 "A stiff brish or a small towel"
I do believe that is a typo and it should read "a small TROWEL"
Whats really messed up is the fact that Rush’s system for determining stress levels on Titan was actually working and he ignored it and had the nerve to do what he did and get in it because he knew that if it blew then he better be on it too because he would rather do this than be locked up or even worse, lose his credibility and expose his entire hubris.
The hull you are showing is version 1 not version 2 which imploded
Thank you, I searched high and low for footage of hull #2 during manufacturing but to no avail. Maybe someday. Gotta be something out there.
So, those end caps are not pure enough titanium for under sea use 🤔 not likely the failure cause but the point of sheer on the end caps show orange rust which to my knowledge only appears in titanium composites … which being a composite would greatly affect the failure point?
It failed at the front no doubt
Great point. I will have to cross reference the photos but I believe the rust is from the imploded o2 cylinders. Stainless doesn’t necessarily “rust” it will more so deteriorate and typically from the inside out. I would imagine titanium would be similar. You can see in my dive footage the titanium bracket I am working on is deteriorating but any rust is transferred by being in contact with bare steel which is rusting underwater.
This is all just evidence which could be contributing factors. I personally think the loud BANG on dive 80 was the straw the broke the camels back. Aka massive structural integrity loss in the cf hull. Cheers🤙🏼
Meanwhile, 'Boys Life' magazine removes the submersible instructions order number.
Half of that paperwork will have been shredded long before they received a subpoena.
This was reported 2 weeks ago by another channel! Loctite 6394 product contains aluminum and has galvanic reaction with carbon fiber.
@@billsteele495 lol my friend, that’s only a small part of this video. I gave him credit both in the video and linked his channel in the description but galvanic corrosion was not the only issue with that adhesive.
Not really.
This information was made public by the USCG on Oct. 22nd. Not even two weeks ago. The channel that I referenced in the video, provided that information 7 days ago. You commented within 5 minutes of me posting my hour long video. Which means you couldn’t have possibly listened to what I had to say before acting like I plagiarized lmao. I provided more insight into the information he provided, simple.
Give it a rest this is public information
The resistivity of EA 9394 is 5 orders of magnitude higher higher than pure aluminum, and very little surface area exposed to seawater (if any; it may have been protected by the rhino liner) - any galvanic corrosion between the glue and the carbon fiber or the titanium rings would have been extremely slow.
They did not have any ROVs on hand. Their entanglement plan was "everyone dies unless we get lucky an a 6000m oil & gas ROV happens to be nearby".
I think the syntactic foam in the tail was only enough to trim out the weight of the tail equipment (there's no real need for it to do anything more) ; it wouldn't have made the submersible go tail up unless the hull was seriously flooded.
No real need is how he got there lol
Please please please do a second debris field analysis! Maybe with Forensic Research &Failure. That would be appointment streaming!
They didn't.There were no penetrations in the carbon fiber.The penetrations were in the aft titanium dome.
@ ?
This looks like experimental aircraft building which I told the owner that I wouldn’t sign off the conditional inspection and never let it leave the ground.
You cant bond carbon to titanium like that. They expand and contract at diffenent rates, well know materials mismatch.
You must have missed the comment that Rush made about this very thing haha.
Him: They said you cant bond carbon fiber and titanium. Well i did.
22:26 @ForensicCats is the best. 🙌🏼 Apprecaite you shouting him out. You’re a good dude. Keep up the great content man
Aha! Is that why you need to put a special screw into a tap to hold the washer on? Is that why the steel screw couldn't come off the copper part of the tap?
Copper doesn’t decide what steel does😂
This was so interesting.!!!
That inner flange on the titanium ring was completely uniformly sheared off.
Adhesives companies need a massive overhaul and more regulations.
I can't even count how many times I've seen a shelf life in documents with absolutely zeto way to find the manufacture date....making it useless.
Yes I’ve come across that problem as well.
We just got to stop off at autozone quick. Gotta get some glue for the submarine window.
I was a pressure vessel composites Engeneer and my mind stopped at epoxy adhesive. Those are rigid adhesives and do not flex well. Pressure vessels are all about flexing under load. Everything is chosen for it's elastic property. In general this is who carbon/epoxy was a no go for this job. Steel and titanium are unmatched
I dig your videos bro!
There would be a shear force between the compressed carbon tube and ring but its not the external pressure, it would only need to hold the force not borne by the hoop strength. It was far from the actual pressure at depth until the tube had failed. Otherwise its basically the force left over beyond what the structure of the carbon holds and the distance it is trying to move. Using the wrong glue is a problem but I would think galvanic corrosion would show visually. You've changed enough zincs to have seen that the thinner and broader areas and corners or sharp points will degrade first. Its still a problem and maybe there's interaction on a microscopic level like pitting at the mating surface but would think that there would be evidence in spots on the titanium.
I'd also be curious, how are electrical systems done in a submersible? Is there any type of bonding or grounding like in a surface vehicle? Wonder how that might work and if that could have been able to to actively protect against galvanic corrosion even if accidentally and how bonding worked between different pieces, particularly metal framework.
“Safety is pure waste” - Stockton Rush.
That looked more like a quart being mixed, to my eyes...
If they weren’t over 450ml, they were certainly close
@@ShakesSphere cat looked like he was baking a cake in home ec class.
@emptiester I know, right ?! Looked like an empty drink jug..
And who is to say if these idiots got the ratios correct? That is a very important aspect of industrial epoxy. Clowns!
Just as an information for the sheer forces, the compression is one factor, but the temperature expansion rates are different between the materials and are nearly constant even against the relative forces applied. Therefore the sheer forces will have been ALOT higher. To galvanic corrosion: aluminium is used for fresh water and zink for saltwater, if used incorrectly the protection wont be proper.
Any defects will be ignored.
Let’s leave this out in the Canadian winter.
Now back to the defects. Any water that got anywhere and froze expanding, then lets put it back in the ocean again and have stress on it going from the other direction.
Oh….the lightning strike?
It’s nothing. Not important.
Apparantly the Glue should have been 93/95 glue as 93/94 has the potential to cause rusting of Titanium .
This gets worse & worse.
I build Radio Control Submarines and i find that Epoxy Resins break down over time in fresh water, I did finally find a brand that lasts but only if sealed over with a sealing coating. And i only go to about 6 ft depth it is scary to think they used it here
It's honestly NOT the carbon fiber. Even 12" thick, cross weaved carbon fiber wouldn't survive multiple trips. I'm honestly shocked they survived one trip. The main issue is the shape! It's LITERALLY INSANE to use that elongated capsule instead of a larger sphere. A sphere is the ONLY shape that can safely and EVENLY distribute the force of the weight of all of the water.
The whole thing stank. Its sad nobody can be sued
With each revelation, this whole thing gets more and more appalling. 9,000 x 4 = 38,000? Wow.
Yes…. Exactly. OceanGate math.
My guess is, at some point, Stockton Rush lost and couldn’t regain control of descent and impacted the sea floor at a high rate of speed. Another possibility during descent, trim of vessel was lost and occupants were thrusted towards and dog piled at end of vessel pointing down. This why it is important to have seats to restrain occupants and maintain vessel trim. I am thinking the glued joints failed because the carbon fiber hull compressed more than the titanium caps. Examination of debris field could determine an estimated depth vessel imploded.
You bring up a great point. According to the brochure and their transcripts, they were actually overloaded by about 100#s, so very possible.
So that's why rust was visible in the ring? Because of the aluminum? Would the rust, which would destroy the aluminum, would it break down the adhesive qualities of the glue?
I was trying to figure out why there would be rust on titanium.
I think the rust was from the o2 tank wrapped around the ring. I forgot to provide a visual reference but aluminum will get a white milky coating on it, it does not rust like steel
@SSPDIVING oh ok. Cool thank you for clarifying that. 👍
No problem!
Saw the testimony by Oceangate head of engineering. The guy was completely negligent.
As a diesel mechanic I use glues, epoxies and chemical treatments better then they do!!
That locktite actualy has higher bond strength at lower temps. Not shure the shear strength
Ive found aero stuff often this way. I used to sell auto and commerical paint. Some very durable coatings were totaly uneffected by hydrolic fluid. But when they got cold would fail the test. Since high flying planes can be subject to very cold temps we didnt sell it and it wasnt approved for higher altatude planes
Test Temperature, °F/°C psi MPa
-67/-55 3,500 24.1
77/25 5,000 34.5
180/82 4,000 27.6
250/121 3,200 22.0
300/149 3,000 20.7
350/177 2,500 17.2
400/204 1,700 11.7
450/232 1,200 8.3
500/260 800 5.5
Has anyone seen any emergency contingency plan if they lost or the barge could not surface?
Seems like that would be a SHTF situation.
I’ll have to double check the operations manual. I don’t think there was an emergency procedure specifically for that. They may have mentioned something under the LARS section. I’ll have a look when I get the chance. I also left a link if you’re interested in doing some investigative work and reporting back. Thanks for the question 🤙🏼
You mention Emergency Procedures at the 1 hour mark
@@800Viffer thank you 🙏🏼
When I wrote assembly documentation for robotics, my three key words were: Inspect, Ensure, and Verify.
Most of my procedure instruction lines started with one of those three words.
Example: "Step 7 Ensure the locking ring alignment tabs are centered on the staking posts. Inspect each staking post for proper alignment. Verify and document proper alignment with part codes, photography, and timestamps."
Thats just one line of assembly instructions and it has almost nothing to with assembly, but everything to do with quality.
This "manual" of theirs is absolute garbage.