I saw a full size model of a vtol at Oshkosh EAA Fly-in sometime around 20yrs ago. It had a ducted rear pusher prop & 2 horizontal ducted props, one in each wing. body design was similar to Bede-5, but sleeker. Don't know if it ever went farther than model stage,, but it looked beautiful!!
Since this video, the project has progressed along with prototypes and many changes. There's also been a change on how public Garrow wants the developments to be, so I'm afraid we won't be seeing too much until some major advances are announced.
The same command works for all VTOLs. It's called "Thrust Vectoring." You can set up your joystick or keyboard to handle it, or you can simply slide the thrust vector lever forward, located on the left of your cockpit panel. If you own the VC, check the included instruction manual to find out exactly how to do it.
Good question! The approach Garrow is taking for this, is to pump fluid back and forth. Pumping fuel has the advantage of costing no more weight, but has the disadvantage of "running out," so only STOVL landings would be possible if the fuel gets too low. Pumping a different fluid would add weight, but it would be a closed system and not run out, giving control over CG all the time. Concordes had a system to pump fuel to different tanks for CG purposes. This would be the system of choice.
@shakaama If you look around, there are only very few planes that are being developed with alternate powerplants. It is not as easy to change propulsion technology for aircraft as it is for cars. However, we have the advantage of being able to "grow along with" the improvements in electric propulsion systems. Since we are starting with radio controlled scale models and working our way up in size, we can continue fitting ever larger-scale models with electric powerplants.
@cacneaunit6 Probably. You can always try it out in X-Plane's free demo. If the rc unit can be recognized as a controller in X-plane's joystick window, then the Verticopter will work.
Flight simulators generally fall into 2 categories: 1. programs where you enter theoretical flight performance values, that are then duly executed during flights. 2. programs where a plane's dimensions, weight, airfoil, CG, etc. are entered, and the simulator calculates the resulting performance limitations, such as stall speed, top speed, take-off distance, etc. X-Plane does such calculations within typically 3% accuracy. This makes it a good prototyping tool that goes farther for less money.
@ARMOROID5000 Interesting suggestion. My immediate thought is, that the rotary seals required for tip jets would be under much higher RPM loads for props than for rotors. Rotors are larger, turn slower, tip jets are more effective on them. I believe there'd be some significant power loss in the ducts that lead to the puffers and tip jets as well. Tip jets for helis have been tried many times, unsuccessfully. I don't think I've ever seen tip jets on regular props.
@ninjanessly10 Probably. You can check out the X-Plane 9 demo first, and try to fly the Piaggio Avanti (one of the default planes). If it works fine on your system, you'll most likely be able to make use of the Verticopter without any problems.
@TheHellz0r Yes... but keep in mind, there might also be incredible graphics OPTIMIZATIONS for X-Plane 10, making amazing scenery possible at perhaps SMALLER file sizes.
Yes, we all know CGI can create any fantasy and make it visible. I'll be impressed when I see the Verticopter in a physical form. Hell, I'd love to see a Scale R/C form even.
@PLISKEN12 None on video, you're right. The test pilot has been very cautious so far. In its current configuration, it is not a full VTOL, and it isn't marketed as one either. If you've been watching the videos, you'll notice we've said all along that this is a STOVL aircraft... "Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing." For vertical take-offs, it has to be equipped with puffers or other forms of static control mechanisms.
@williamkendrick Another point to consider: Nowadays you'd be hard-pressed to find an aircraft concept that does not go through a significant virtual phase in its development process. We're merely making that available to the public.
LOL... I see what you did there...because it has a propeller and can blend things. Very nice. And, yes I know it's also a reference to the youtube series.
If you're referring to CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics), then you're right: X-Plane doesn't come close to simulating that in real-time. But what it DOES have, and it does very well, is "Blade Element Theory," which cuts the individual parts down into manageable slices, and determines the forces acting on each individual slice, then adds it all back together again into a fairly good approximation of that particular shape's aerodynamic properties. Still, better than look-up tables (MSFS).
As long as the rotor is intact it would act as a gyro, and help the craft stay aloft. There is a way to emergency land by stalling the plane at the last moment like you see when a skydiver does a stop landing.
im interested to know how do you compensate for the shifting center of gravity as more weight goes into the cockpit... existing aircraft have some kind of trim to offset the longitudinal imbalance... in forward flight i can see it wont be a problem, but if you say that your propellers dont have any cyclic control, how do you do it when you are hovering?
@MTTTrainer We never mention anywhere that we have a factory assembly line. We're making progress with prototyping, and we offer a virtual simulator product as of now. So there is no dis-honesty anywhere, no smoke and mirrors. You want to try the plane? Fly it in X-Plane. Want to try the real thing? You'll have to wait until we're out of prototyping and into production of the plane. You want to get it ON the assembly line faster? Consider investing.
12 Years later... Guessing this didn't pan out. Too bad. The design is interesting. I would love to fly in one! (not first... but after the fleet has a few thousand hours, yep)
@perryinjax Okay, here goes... The motion of the aircraft is calculated in discrete steps. The number of steps per second is now equal to the frame rate. However, the motion of the aircraft probably requires more frames than the visualization. That's why you have this multiplication factor. There are standard ways to determine the required number of steps for the calculation of the motion, as well as more efficient calculation methods. The industry standard is the Runge-Kutta method.
The problem with this design in reality is that the passengers do not sit at the center of gravity, which means that it will always change depending upon the weight and number of people in the cockpit, making pure vertical take off impossible. The harrier jet has 4 downward thrusters which are able to compensate the horizontal ballance.
That's the plan! I'm working on a 10% scale model, and the 20% scale model was successfully test-flown at NASA Ames a few weeks ago. It'll be doing another series of test-flights this weekend. We'll be working our way up, as funding becomes available.
@danklaue I have X-Plane v.9 and the box says that there is 60gigs of senery and my Dad says it has 60gigs of senery. I think the box says that it's 60gigs of senery because it's OPTIONAL senery.
@danklaue I actually own X-plane 9 and it runs the piaggio avanti pretty good. The only problem is that X-plane brings up a message that says that I have to many rendering options enabled and it greatly reduces visibility
@williamkendrick Obviously, you have not been to the Verticopter website. Neither have you seen the latest videos, published right here on RUclips. This video was posted one year ago. In the meantime, we've gone through several functional RC prototypes. Also consider this: The V22 Osprey was in development for 25 years. And it was GOVERNMENT FUNDED. This Verticopter idea has been developed for only 1/4 of that time, and we aren't funding our development with bottomless funds.
Open up any plane in X-Plane. (The demo is free). Then go to "Special>Show flight model." (There are 3 modes). The calculations are all real-time. All in all, it IS better than table-based simulation, because you enter a plane shape, and you get flight characteristics that are consistent with that shape. I've used X-Plane as a prototyping software for RC planes with great success; the RC planes fly very similarly to the real planes, based solely on geometry. You can't do that in MSFS.
@TheHellz0r It's getting there... Xplane10 will have amazing graphics. Also, often times graphic capabilities of that simulator are not nearly fully tapped by the developers. But new planes are coming as well, that will make a lot of FSX planes look simple.
Wow picture one day we will have verticopters flying above a car chase or flying in a very hurt person to a hospital. Who knows they might even make fighter verticopters in war.
There have been over a dozen successful RC flights so far, of which we haven't showcased all yet, due to some things we wish to keep under wraps for the time being. The other thing is, this is STOVL, not VTOL. We aren't expecting to achieve full VTOL performance until we make use of puffers and other technologies that we want to build in to the plane once everything else about the flight characteristics is proven and tweaked to perfection.
@cpnstav You can program joystick buttons to do just about anything you want in X-Plane. No need to have more than 10 fingers. X-Plane is not an arcade sim, that's true... and graphics isn't even its main strength, although they ARE good. Its strength is accuracy and flight model dynamics realism. And the fact that you can make concept planes and test fly them. You can't really do that in other sims.
@RayTV100 This same phenomenon has happened to me so many times! But the more I've thought about it, the more I'm realizing: anybody can have an idea. Take the iPhone or iPad for instance. How many people before its time have said, "Wouldn't it be cool to have..." and they go on to describe an all-in-one phone or tablet. What's REALLY valuable is someone with the vision and smarts and business savvy to execute the idea in a way that REALLY works. RIP, Steve Jobs.
Beautiful airplane/heli. The puffer concept shouldn't be stored air though. You could use the engines to power a small generator that is connected to an air compressor so you would never run out of "stored air" Much safer that way. J
Ex-Avionics Mechanic, currently studying Physics and some Engineering. Fluid Dynamics, specifically Aerodynamics, is an area I am hoping to go into as an engineer/consultant. As an aside, the F-35 has a static or semi-static ducted fan as far as I remember-it does not articulate like the Verticopters' does.
Excellent video! Question about the puffer jets for stability. If the system was using tipjet technology on binary rotors already then air pressure take offs could be routed from that system to the puffer jets for vertical stability. This would save weight in the craft by using one system for both applications rather than the drive connected rotors and a seperate compressor system to provide for the puffers.? Just a thought. ;^)
I take it that you're using Euler forward for the time integration of the panel method that you use to calculate the flight mechanics. Why didn't you use a Runge-Kutta solver with an adaptive step size? In that way, you could have ensured that the accuracy remains acceptable.
@175Air Which version do you have? Version 8's scenery was 60 GB, that's true. I'm pretty sure v9's scenery is 80 GB. But maybe that's because I also have custom scenery on my system. Besides, I'd call it a "simulator" instead of a "game."
How does the weight distribution work on a 7 passenger model, some how the plane must adjust the back and front weight ratio for take off, it must take off if there is one passenger instead of 7.
I've played with a couple flight simulators and concept construction programs. I'm just more of an old fashioned 'let's build it then go outside and play' sort of fellow.
It does appear to be a remix of previous existing even operating technology... just say'n. The single axis thrust for both airscrews is a really great improvement though. Just "might" be original enough for a patent.
There is X-Plane for Android, but it's "closed," meaning only Laminar Research determines which planes they release for that platform. No add-on development is possible for mobile versions.
Наука
I saw a full size model of a vtol at Oshkosh EAA Fly-in sometime around 20yrs ago. It had a ducted rear pusher prop & 2 horizontal ducted props, one in each wing. body design was similar to Bede-5, but sleeker. Don't know if it ever went farther than model stage,, but it looked beautiful!!
Since this video, the project has progressed along with prototypes and many changes. There's also been a change on how public Garrow wants the developments to be, so I'm afraid we won't be seeing too much until some major advances are announced.
Wow, excellent dialogue and excellent explaining of everything. Thanks!
The same command works for all VTOLs. It's called "Thrust Vectoring." You can set up your joystick or keyboard to handle it, or you can simply slide the thrust vector lever forward, located on the left of your cockpit panel.
If you own the VC, check the included instruction manual to find out exactly how to do it.
Good question! The approach Garrow is taking for this, is to pump fluid back and forth. Pumping fuel has the advantage of costing no more weight, but has the disadvantage of "running out," so only STOVL landings would be possible if the fuel gets too low. Pumping a different fluid would add weight, but it would be a closed system and not run out, giving control over CG all the time.
Concordes had a system to pump fuel to different tanks for CG purposes. This would be the system of choice.
@shakaama
If you look around, there are only very few planes that are being developed with alternate powerplants. It is not as easy to change propulsion technology for aircraft as it is for cars. However, we have the advantage of being able to "grow along with" the improvements in electric propulsion systems.
Since we are starting with radio controlled scale models and working our way up in size, we can continue fitting ever larger-scale models with electric powerplants.
@cacneaunit6
Probably. You can always try it out in X-Plane's free demo. If the rc unit can be recognized as a controller in X-plane's joystick window, then the Verticopter will work.
Flight simulators generally fall into 2 categories:
1. programs where you enter theoretical flight performance values, that are then duly executed during flights.
2. programs where a plane's dimensions, weight, airfoil, CG, etc. are entered, and the simulator calculates the resulting performance limitations, such as stall speed, top speed, take-off distance, etc. X-Plane does such calculations within typically 3% accuracy. This makes it a good prototyping tool that goes farther for less money.
@ARMOROID5000
Interesting suggestion. My immediate thought is, that the rotary seals required for tip jets would be under much higher RPM loads for props than for rotors. Rotors are larger, turn slower, tip jets are more effective on them.
I believe there'd be some significant power loss in the ducts that lead to the puffers and tip jets as well.
Tip jets for helis have been tried many times, unsuccessfully. I don't think I've ever seen tip jets on regular props.
It needs automatic tilt seats if you want to fly it vertically.
@ninjanessly10 Probably. You can check out the X-Plane 9 demo first, and try to fly the Piaggio Avanti (one of the default planes). If it works fine on your system, you'll most likely be able to make use of the Verticopter without any problems.
@TheHellz0r
Yes... but keep in mind, there might also be incredible graphics OPTIMIZATIONS for X-Plane 10, making amazing scenery possible at perhaps SMALLER file sizes.
I have X-Plane, and the Verticopter on it. It's one of my favorite models to fly.
Yes, we all know CGI can create any fantasy and make it visible.
I'll be impressed when I see the Verticopter in a physical form. Hell, I'd love to see a Scale R/C form even.
There are puffers on wing tips and front/rear of the plane. It works just like the Harrier VTOL jet.
@PLISKEN12 None on video, you're right. The test pilot has been very cautious so far. In its current configuration, it is not a full VTOL, and it isn't marketed as one either. If you've been watching the videos, you'll notice we've said all along that this is a STOVL aircraft... "Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing."
For vertical take-offs, it has to be equipped with puffers or other forms of static control mechanisms.
a plane that can do reverse. Awesome work!
@williamkendrick
Another point to consider:
Nowadays you'd be hard-pressed to find an aircraft concept that does not go through a significant virtual phase in its development process. We're merely making that available to the public.
just great what I saw why isnt it in production I dont understand
LOL... I see what you did there...because it has a propeller and can blend things. Very nice. And, yes I know it's also a reference to the youtube series.
If you're referring to CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics), then you're right: X-Plane doesn't come close to simulating that in real-time. But what it DOES have, and it does very well, is "Blade Element Theory," which cuts the individual parts down into manageable slices, and determines the forces acting on each individual slice, then adds it all back together again into a fairly good approximation of that particular shape's aerodynamic properties. Still, better than look-up tables (MSFS).
As long as the rotor is intact it would act as a gyro, and help the craft stay aloft. There is a way to emergency land by stalling the plane at the last moment like you see when a skydiver does a stop landing.
im interested to know how do you compensate for the shifting center of gravity as more weight goes into the cockpit...
existing aircraft have some kind of trim to offset the longitudinal imbalance...
in forward flight i can see it wont be a problem, but if you say that your propellers dont have any cyclic control, how do you do it when you are hovering?
@MTTTrainer
We never mention anywhere that we have a factory assembly line. We're making progress with prototyping, and we offer a virtual simulator product as of now. So there is no dis-honesty anywhere, no smoke and mirrors. You want to try the plane? Fly it in X-Plane. Want to try the real thing? You'll have to wait until we're out of prototyping and into production of the plane. You want to get it ON the assembly line faster? Consider investing.
I am totally impressed. Awesome
12 Years later... Guessing this didn't pan out. Too bad. The design is interesting. I would love to fly in one! (not first... but after the fleet has a few thousand hours, yep)
@perryinjax Okay, here goes... The motion of the aircraft is calculated in discrete steps. The number of steps per second is now equal to the frame rate. However, the motion of the aircraft probably requires more frames than the visualization. That's why you have this multiplication factor. There are standard ways to determine the required number of steps for the calculation of the motion, as well as more efficient calculation methods. The industry standard is the Runge-Kutta method.
The problem with this design in reality is that the passengers do not sit at the center of gravity, which means that it will always change depending upon the weight and number of people in the cockpit, making pure vertical take off impossible. The harrier jet has 4 downward thrusters which are able to compensate the horizontal ballance.
"Whether carrying 1 thin person, or seven large sumo-wrestlers, the prop is always in the center of gravity!"
It's amazing what we can do now days!
That's the plan! I'm working on a 10% scale model, and the 20% scale model was successfully test-flown at NASA Ames a few weeks ago. It'll be doing another series of test-flights this weekend.
We'll be working our way up, as funding becomes available.
what a beautiful plane!
I possess the technology that makes all of this possible.
Very cool. How far along has it gotten now?
How about using a twin fuselage as in a F-82 Twin Mustang with the engine between them.
@danklaue I have X-Plane v.9 and the box says that there is 60gigs of senery and my Dad says it has 60gigs of senery. I think the box says that it's 60gigs of senery because it's OPTIONAL senery.
Interesting design, if it is ever built how light or what weight capacity will it have. That seems to be the only issue with it.
@danklaue I actually own X-plane 9 and it runs the piaggio avanti pretty good. The only problem is that X-plane brings up a message that says that I have to many rendering options enabled and it greatly reduces visibility
"Seeking investors now. Also, there is a bridge for sale in Brooklyn :-) "
Very well done!
@williamkendrick
Obviously, you have not been to the Verticopter website. Neither have you seen the latest videos, published right here on RUclips. This video was posted one year ago. In the meantime, we've gone through several functional RC prototypes.
Also consider this: The V22 Osprey was in development for 25 years. And it was GOVERNMENT FUNDED. This Verticopter idea has been developed for only 1/4 of that time, and we aren't funding our development with bottomless funds.
What an excellent concept. What will it cost to produce a seven seat aircraft? Do you need a test pilot?
WOW,..THIS IS COOL
Open up any plane in X-Plane. (The demo is free). Then go to "Special>Show flight model." (There are 3 modes). The calculations are all real-time. All in all, it IS better than table-based simulation, because you enter a plane shape, and you get flight characteristics that are consistent with that shape. I've used X-Plane as a prototyping software for RC planes with great success; the RC planes fly very similarly to the real planes, based solely on geometry. You can't do that in MSFS.
amazing!!
@TheHellz0r
It's getting there... Xplane10 will have amazing graphics. Also, often times graphic capabilities of that simulator are not nearly fully tapped by the developers. But new planes are coming as well, that will make a lot of FSX planes look simple.
@danklaue So I think the total is 80gigs. Sorry, my mistake.
Wow picture one day we will have verticopters flying above a car chase or flying in a very hurt person to a hospital. Who knows they might even make fighter verticopters in war.
There have been over a dozen successful RC flights so far, of which we haven't showcased all yet, due to some things we wish to keep under wraps for the time being.
The other thing is, this is STOVL, not VTOL. We aren't expecting to achieve full VTOL performance until we make use of puffers and other technologies that we want to build in to the plane once everything else about the flight characteristics is proven and tweaked to perfection.
will it blend?
thats a stupid question. if you turn off the engine of a normal plane does it just stop midflight and drop straight down?
@cpnstav You can program joystick buttons to do just about anything you want in X-Plane. No need to have more than 10 fingers. X-Plane is not an arcade sim, that's true... and graphics isn't even its main strength, although they ARE good. Its strength is accuracy and flight model dynamics realism. And the fact that you can make concept planes and test fly them. You can't really do that in other sims.
@RayTV100 This same phenomenon has happened to me so many times! But the more I've thought about it, the more I'm realizing: anybody can have an idea. Take the iPhone or iPad for instance. How many people before its time have said, "Wouldn't it be cool to have..." and they go on to describe an all-in-one phone or tablet. What's REALLY valuable is someone with the vision and smarts and business savvy to execute the idea in a way that REALLY works. RIP, Steve Jobs.
Beautiful airplane/heli. The puffer concept shouldn't be stored air though. You could use the engines to power a small generator that is connected to an air compressor so you would never run out of "stored air" Much safer that way.
J
Ex-Avionics Mechanic, currently studying Physics and some Engineering. Fluid Dynamics, specifically Aerodynamics, is an area I am hoping to go into as an engineer/consultant.
As an aside, the F-35 has a static or semi-static ducted fan as far as I remember-it does not articulate like the Verticopters' does.
yeah but, will it blend?
Excellent video!
Question about the puffer jets for stability.
If the system was using tipjet technology on binary rotors already then air pressure take offs could be routed from that system to the puffer jets for vertical stability.
This would save weight in the craft by using one system for both applications rather than the drive connected rotors and a seperate compressor system to provide for the puffers.? Just a thought.
;^)
this is awesome!
I take it that you're using Euler forward for the time integration of the panel method that you use to calculate the flight mechanics. Why didn't you use a Runge-Kutta solver with an adaptive step size? In that way, you could have ensured that the accuracy remains acceptable.
Here's a question: Would this thing still glide, like a plane, if the engine is out, or do it's rendition of a falling rock? Just saying...
naw .. I think i'll stick with the antigravity platforms ;))
Is there a 3D model on this (say Solidworks) so I can have a proper look at it in term of aerodynamic, I can see a lot of application for it!!
@danklaue exactly! take baths for instance. back in the day people thought that taking baths was "wonky" then the plague happened. :P
well played
@175Air
Which version do you have? Version 8's scenery was 60 GB, that's true. I'm pretty sure v9's scenery is 80 GB. But maybe that's because I also have custom scenery on my system.
Besides, I'd call it a "simulator" instead of a "game."
Wow looks amazing! Can I ask u a question? At around 0:20 of the video you show the 3d model.. which program did you use? 3D Max? Best regards!
just great what I saw
How does the weight distribution work on a 7 passenger model, some how the plane must adjust the back and front weight ratio for take off, it must take off if there is one passenger instead of 7.
.
esse povo que faz o melhor aviao, ainda usa internet explore
E que não deve fazer bosta nenhuma se sente no direito de achar que está zoando os caras....
This has so much potential. Why isn't it already selling? If I had money to, I would finance it.
The fact that you'll finance it's the reason why you don't have money
banmadabon Lel
Well I reckon...eventually, that's the daily commute sorted :)
hmmm impressive...but will it blend?
japan makes a real one, saw it in a newspaper! i want one!!!!
I've played with a couple flight simulators and concept construction programs. I'm just more of an old fashioned 'let's build it then go outside and play' sort of fellow.
This is awesome I want one
QUÁ TUYỆT VỜI ! tôi thích sản phẩm nầy.
it works as RC because models have motors with unrealistic power to weight ratios. this thing won't fly as a full scale vehicle
very cool!
So...you can pretend to fly a non-existent plane in a computer program...big woop!
Cool concept! Someone should build that! :-)
I would like to fly too.
Wow, that is AWSOME!!! : )
but does it blend?
It does appear to be a remix of previous existing even operating technology... just say'n. The single axis thrust for both airscrews is a really great improvement though.
Just "might" be original enough for a patent.
when can I get it
@karakuraable Not really... you can easily run this plane on a 3-4-yr old computer.
I want to buy one !!!
are there any chance of me keeping 1 on my drive way??
how much is it
There is X-Plane for Android, but it's "closed," meaning only Laminar Research determines which planes they release for that platform. No add-on development is possible for mobile versions.
Getting some major Deja Vu watching this. (Not that I've seen it somewhere else, I'm actually getting Deja Vu.)
Would it work on a 2.4 Ghz Intel Pentium 4 with 2 GB RAM?
So where do the miniguns go?
Interessante questi prototipi in particolare il verticopter
what does he win/?
....aaaaaand here we are still waiting...
I would love to have an RC one
how much ?
Does anyone know where to find for download now?
looks awesome! thought it was real
Where is the second part of the video?