The implication that we just need to be properly educated hearkens back to the moment that private utility companies took over the government by rewriting the textbooks
The hurt in your voice talking about Halo. I felt that. BG3 is downloading as I type this. Firdt time I've spent full price on a game since OW1. I've been very anti this shit for a long time and I get so disappointed everytime someone I know pre-orders or simply won't grind for something. I'm like "you're ruining this industry and you're all gonna be to blame when it becomes to much". Here we are. Smh. Oh wait, last time I spent actual money on a game was for the master chief collection through steam. Replaying the games with my siblings, like we did on release days 2 decades ago, worth every penny, ill do it again on another decade.
The AAA studios are absolutely correct, they shouldn't be as good as a indie developer. They should be MUCH better! An indie company should be the low mark of how good you should be, not the high water mark!
I think it's more important for Publishers to know how games are made, and then make sure that their associated devs make their games... fucking properly!!
That article is right. AAA studios can't be expected to be held to the same standards as smaller studios like Larian. They should be held to much, MUCH, higher standards.
Larian aren't a small studio. They grew to 400 people across 7 countries for BG3. Starfield apparently had a team of 500. Comparing BG3 with other AAA games is pretty fair as is. These companies won't lose business. They know what they're doing. They're making more money than ever by releasing pieces of shit. They'll just have a change of customer base. AAA games aren't for gamers anymore, they're for fans of mobile games and the clowns that play destiny 2.
@@tropicalape-bl2gxI’ve said this for a while now. No real gamers that have a PASSION for good games are playing AAA titles. The only people I see playing those games still are the same people that get sponsored for doing so. No real gamer launches a new AAA title with any passion that isn’t trying to milk rage views from genuine gamers who warn not to pay for crap like this while hate viewing. It’s not enough to just stop playing these crappy games, we have to IGNORE and permanently filter out the corporate mouth pieces being paid to say they’re fun vs. the genuine gamers who put it down after a steam play through trying to speed a refund because they never wanna touch it again with how bad it is. Good rule of thumb-if you preorder any game, you’re part of the problem. If you stream these lame AAA titles you’re part of the problem. If you even HATE VIEW then you’re part of the problem. Don’t pay to help a game company fix their game they’re never gonna fix anyway-that’s THEIR job BEFORE launch!
True, here the thing it wasn't a AAA Dev that was complaining it was a smaller mid size dev from a small company and the narrative somehow got changed into AAA DEVS frighted of BS3!!! Yeah I am sure the Bethesda's EA and Ubisoft of the world are trembling in their boots..Not..They all make more money off their games in a Month then BG3 will prob make in its lifetime. That's the Sad truth look at how excited everybody is for the New Cyberpunk expansion! Gamers never learn
Csuites need to be studied by AI for their actual value for money and if anyone else could do the job, no I don't think Bobby Kotick types are the only ones who can 'close these big deals' its a giant lie that has ruined gaming.
Do consumers want value? Really? Then why did they shoved their money into the *** of those AAA studios all these years? Did somebody forced them? The players are the only ones to blame, because they went and will go along this shit.
@@axelstuart2707Idk if im the only one but I avoid any games that have microtransactions. If it has those I avoid them because developers tend to put most of their focus in that system while ignoring the most important aspects of games. Leading to subpar money grabs.
@@exemida you're not the only one, but surely in the minority. I don't avoid those games, but they are not worth full price to me. Never spend any money on MS myself.
I used to be a software developer. Not a game developer (that was a side hobby, not my job) but I can 100% agree and back this up. Not just in games, but in all tech, deadlines are determined by the Sales Team, which has no idea how long it takes to actually make something, and are willing to sell sh*t in a bag as long as they can blame the devs for it being "unpolished" on release. It drove me crazy.
The market manipulation is huge. Stakeholder or shareholder interests feel the profits. ESGs from Blackrock are what pays every massive corp pushing woke.
I know this probably isn't a perfect solution but to be honest shouldn't the sales team not even know about the project until it's finished? This would solve them trying to figure out how to give you time to develop it and instead can just focus on how to market it and release it when the hype is highest, aka they can do their job while if you are for some reason still working on it all you are doing is taking care of bugs and glitches. This is kind of what games used to do with their beta testing phase. Alpha was the project, beta was the testing phase, release was we are never gonna touch that again unless absolutely necessary. Atari up until PlayStation 2 usually used this model then when PlayStation 3/Xbox 360 era released consoles gained easy access to internet so everyone just stopped beta phases and made the release the beta phase for as long as the game made them money and it's been like that since from what I've seen anyway.
@@theoneamongthehidden4387 The problem is development generates debt and the earlier they pay off that debt the cheaper it is. You end up with a business model where companies have to sell before they have a product just to stay in business. This is messed up. It's anti-consumer and can only happen because the customers are brainwashed rubes. It's no accident the best recent games have come from companies with low operating costs, that can afford to take risks and be creative.
@@theoneamongthehidden4387 As a software developer myself, the "rule of sales" is fine in the majority of cases. Many developers forget that their job is not to write a perfect code, it is to satisfy business and clients. It is better to release two features that are not optimized and polished than to release a "finished" one. That way you both satisfy the client, at least partially (in 90% of the cases, it is better to have slow-working analytics that does not include all metrics than to not have any, for example), and grab early feedback to steer the feature in the direction client wants (because it is usually something different from the preliminary discussion). Now, there is a big difference in gaming development. In the case above, there is a trade-off of earlier access to functionality for worse user experience. Unfortunately, user experience IS functionality in gaming industry so, by doing this, you often make the game overall worse. BG3 is a great example of that, actually. They kinda release their game THREE YEARS prior to the official release and there are still problems that gone unfixed since that time. What is the area of the game that was playtested for three years? Act I. By the time most gamers got to act II, Larian already released patch to cover the most glaring problems and get their glowing reviews. Most likely we'll get BG3: Definitive Edition in three years, when they actually finish the companions storylines and dialogues, get rid of crashes and scrypting bugs and polish the game overall, just like it happened with DOS1&2. But to call the game as it is finished product is either a lie or an ignorance.
I‘m actually very grateful towards all the AAA developers coming out of the woodwork and declaring themselves inadequate in comparison to Larian Studios. Really helps me avoid greedy and lackluster companies in the future. I‘m keeping a list. Just in case.
@@klyxes My list is EA, Ubisoft, Epic, Activision, Blizzard, 2K, Gearbox...I have not purchased from most of these in over 10 years and If I'm not really impressed with starfield Bethesda is going on the list
I just pay attention to who whined the loudest as a game maker and said. "Nope, never buying from you ever again." I'm enjoying BG3 so much, and I had funded it early access. It's the happiest I've ever been about a product.
I am a gave dev and I was pretty lucky to realize early on in my career that I don't want to work in an AAA studio. I've heard a lot of first-hand experiences from people who did work in AAA studios and to me such condition were unacceptable. Basically it's like working on conveyor belt, with a degree in astrophysics, while your boss is an accountant. I chose indie road and the first studio I got in was a brand new studio at the time, only 5-6 of us there. The studio is much larger now. Because of all the freedom I had there and I still do, respect from my coworkers and the boss, after 4 years of development we made a game which turned out to be a success beyond anything we could ever imagine. Some say it's one of the best in it's genre, better than some AAA games.
I think they want to be modest and not come across as advertising, and I support that approach, I do it too with my mods when I want to discuss what's available but not point fingers.
I can't. Back when I cared, or had faith in basically anyone, I screamed and blogged endlessly about the corruption and conversion of the industry to micro-transactions. This was 13 years ago at least. Addicts throw their money away, and gamers are now nothing more than addicts. No reason, no logic, no self-restraint. So yes, it's crazy to expect intelligence.
Imagine a world where everyone just stopped buying into capitalist bullshit full stop... ... Well, I mean it sounds really ideal, but everyone would die, since capitalism is holding humanity hostage by this point, literally milking maximum profit from the very things people need to live. Games probably not included in most cases, but I'd probably have suicided if not for games by now... so the very most I can do is wait for Steam sales.
@@Demane69 Back in the mid 2000s, I had very strong opinions about the anti consumer direction of the Battlefield series. My last BF was 2142 which EA shut down in 2014 then bullied a community server project out of existence in 2017. It's been apparent for over a decade that the big studios do not respect their games or their customers. And why should they? The shovel-ware keeps selling.
"AAA studios can't be held to the same standards as an independent studio" that is 100% correct, they shouldn't be held to that standard. They should be held to higher standards, because they have more money and people to throw into their games.
One thing you don’t mention that I think should be brought up is that BG3 was in early access for about 3 years before it was officially released. Early access ended at some point in act 1 and the slowly added in classes and characters over the years. That’s why act 1 is damn near flawless.
Yeah - and honestly, I want more dev studios to, even if they don't go early access, at least be willing to work on a game for years. For many of them, of course, that requires that a publisher be willing to fund them for that length of time. I'm really glad that Larian was given the time necessary to make this game to their own standards; had it been EA funding development, it would not be this good.
@@Parker8752 Hasbro needed a hit as well, as they've been letting D&D suffer under WotC lately. BG3 will be the last D&D game for an unknown amount of time because it's a dying brand. Larian made a gem, and I only hope they do so again with the next Divinity title eventually.
The key is the time and effort put in. TotK was a major release from a major company, and it was also fantastic. They already had the majority of the overworld built, and still spent 7 years and pushed the deadline back multiple times just so they could have a great game. They CARED. Thats the key.
@@Parker8752Let me put this into perspective for you aswell... Take EA, a developer that has around 1300 staff compared to the 140-ish working at Larian or the team of around 40 people at Hello Games. They could have so many absolute gems on the go simultaneously with multiple teams working on different IPs constantly and achieve that which is standard for the likes of Larian and Hello Games. They could be working on Games from early access until years beyond release and make them near perfect! So, why don't they achieve this??? Money. They prefer to have two separate teams , 3 or 4 at most working all working on annual titles which, instead of releasing one game and updating for years, they can re-release the same game with minimal uodates year after year and just stick a new number on the end and charge full price! It also cuts their workload drastically while making profits skyrocket because people will always buy FIFA (now EA FC) or Madden for example... Larian and Hello are literally what studios like EA could be achieving with every new game release if they took the time and had the same motivations and passion. But, they are only interested in money vs time and resource with little to no interest in their consumers... AAA developers will have to step up and perform or lose out to devs like Hello and Larian. Simple. Because eventually, people will become wise to this fact and refuse to buy the same game every year (hopefully).
@Ed2smooth good work takes time; especially if you're doing it sustainably (turns out you get much better work when people aren't working 80-100 hour weeks). There are diminishing returns on having more people working on a game- the more there are, the more time needs to be spent on coordinating their efforts. A major studio could absolutely make a similarly ambitious game in less time; it's just that for the majority of people working on it, it would be the last game they ever made, and it would be a buggy piece of shit.
I remember a time when game journalism focused on consumer protection... sad that it has devolved to being lazy reprints of PR releases or misguided attempts to cover for the mistakes of greedy CEOs. Great video Legendary! You've gained yourself one more sub!
I agree with your disappointment in "journalism" but it has a similar problem to AAA games. Who is paying for it? Advertisers, not the users. Thus the articles favor their source of money. Like most things that are free, if you aren't paying for something, you are the product.
While I understand the constraints AAA studios experience, I fail to see how that becomes my problem as a customer. I never forced them to become a publicly traded company that now forgoes creative decision freedom in exchange for more profits. I don’t hate AAA studios, but I feel BG3 was a wake up call to them that gamers are tired of the direction they’re taking games with being rushed, while asking for more and more of our money.
This. Imagine the argument in any other industry. Saying something like why are my bikes tires squares instead of circles, it's really terrible to ride. Then having everyone clap back that you just don't understand how hard bikes are to make, rather than just getting a refund. 😂
@@XerrolAvengerII My point is bigger studios created this problem themselves and I'm not obligated to help them meet their quarterly financial goals. It's not really a problem at all for me to say "No thanks" and walk away.
While I agree with you, the thing is... you're not their customer. They target their products to a different type of person, and exploit ludopathy and that sort of stuff. The games that make more money are mobile games where just a few "whales" expend several hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. They just don't care if you don't buy their game. Many others will. Meanwhile, the quality of big budget games has gone down the drain. At least the market is full of small, well priced games worth playing.@@Rine.4656
This has to be game of the year. Not just because it’s deserving but because the message needs to be sent to these AAA devs that they can’t get by doing less than the bare minimum anymore.
@DaveGrean Larian are an independent studio with only a team of around 140 people. Studios like EA and Bethesda are not independent and have around 10 times the number of employees... So, yeah... Larian are still a very small studio by comparison and, as they are independent, so too are their games. Hence: AA as opposed to AAA
@@DaveGrean But whether a company is independent or not, and the number of employees determines if they are AA or AAA. That's a fact. Another fact is that companies with much higher budget and ten times the staff should be able to compete and outdo all smaller independent companies. But, clearly, most AAA devs can't compete. Why?
@@thevoicewithin9845 Just like with music, technology has simply progressed to a point where one can achieve a level of fidelity that would be considered 'professional' even without a huge budget. This doesn't change that it's useless to differentiate between AAA and indie if there is no visible difference. At this point the only thing unique to AAA is their overreliance on in-game transactions, and general capitalism putting profit maximisation above quality of product, which is the only reason indie games can be considered 'better'. It's certainly not because a bigger studio would be less capable of making a good game in and of itself, obviously.
The funniest thing about this entire BG3 firestorm is that it was literally a dev trying to say that we shouldn't expect this kind of quality from them preemptively. Nobody was comparing anyone else to Larian studios when this dev posted his tweet. He started the firestorm that would eventually surround him. Then the bandwagon of other devs jumping in to add onto that only brought more attention to the original post. They dug their own hole, by putting it into the minds of the average consumer that this game was high quality, and the bulk of this argument is basically them playing victim and getting defensive against things that they weren't being targeted over until they brought light to themselves and we all started going... "hey wait a minute, that's a good point. why aren't you like this?" Basically, had none of these other devs said a word and kept quiet, most people would just go on with the status quo. This dev is literally the catalyst for the fiasco he was trying to defend himself from before anyone pointed fingers at him.
What's even crazier is that he's a small dev; I don't think his original point was even made about AAA, so much as speaking about smaller studios not typically having the funding to create games of BG3s scope in the modern business climate. As you said, it was all the other devs that hopped on the bandwagon that blew this up.
That guy was actually talking about his fellow indie devs. But somehow AAA devs jumped on his posts and started making excuses why even they (who have only more resources than Larian) can't be expected to develop game with this level of quality. That was what sparked the entire firestorm.
Don't forget, nobody forces these studios to go public and become beholden to the business cycle that gets dictated by quarterly reporting. There's a reason why Valve is still private.
Actually, yes. That does in fact happen. Studios are funded by investors. Studios sign contracts with those investors. Studios are held to contracts they make. Studios are held to standards in those contracts. One of those standards is development scope. When they reach the end of that scope, they release. Some studios who are not externally funded have budgets they cannot exceed. When they do, they release. You should know this. This is very easy info to find. Shame on you.
You just got on your soapbox and ranted about something completely different than what the OP was saying. Going public doesn't mean releasing a game to recoup investment costs or prevent the budget spiraling out of control as it descends into development hell. Going public means transforming the company from a private entity to a publicly traded company. That decision rests at the feet of the Board of Directors. Not investors. The OP's issue is related to the dramatic changes in focus for a public company, and how those changes have largely been negative for gamers resulting in unreasonable deadlines, unfinished products, aggressive/manipulative monetization, etc. The OP's original statement was clarified by using Valve as an example. Valve has been consistent for decades about their desire to remain a private entity specifically so they do not have to answer to shareholder earnings expectations. You should know this. This is very easy info to find. Shame on you.
That is not an excuse. Investor relations are NOT an excuse. Look at Cyberpunk! CDPR stock was going up and up during development, shareholders were actually happy with the development phase. Game releases, it's shit, stock plummets. So... it was the shareholders fault the game was shit?!? No, it was the devs. The devs alone!
@@pmp1337my guy, the devs themselves have said (and it’s also already been openly stated) that the heads of the studio advertised the game way out of time and even the original release date they gave out made the devs shutter cause the game was no where near release date. Pretty sure the shareholders and the studio needed the hype and the game to sell and they needed it to launch when needed but the “vision” was so grand the devs could t keep up and yeah the game released broke and the devs knew it but they can’t stop the studio from saying “alright we don’t care”
@@WGasmss no, devs took 8 years to develop a game. 8 years. Still in 2020 they delayed the release and still the stock price went up with the news of the delay.
It took me over 100 hours to beat baldur's gate and i missed a complete section by accident. This game is stunning, the companions are all unique and interesting, the gameplay is so much fun! It's a throwback to what games used to be and it makes me sad that there is not more games as well put together out there anymore. Volition dying while well deserved was sad, i loved saints row. I hope this shift happens fast and we go back to getting good games regularly.
@@thelastpagan4999 I've been fairly careful about this. Just poked my nose into guides just enough to know if I should continue checking out an area before leaving it. There is a lot more to this game then I ever expected.
It's unbelievable how much sheer entertainment BG3 has so far offered me. There is so much content and it's so well done. 50 hours in to the first gameplay and I can already see doing another even deeper gameplay.
Dawg I'm in the lower city and I've permanently lost shadowheart and never even recruited Gale. I've got more late game to explore on a 2nd playthrough and I'm already excited
@@vuton7670Sorry, but if you are 40hrs and half way in Act 2, you have missed A LOT! I was >80hrs in Act 1 alone... Turns out, I also still missed a fair bit. Few people have spent 90-100hrs in Act 1 completing everything there is (or that people know of thus far). Also, what do you mean by replayed boss fights? Like, reloaded a save prior to the fight??
After playing 50 hours, i upgraded my version of the game. Larian impressed me so much i had to express my thanks. Haven't had this much fun in a game in years.
Standing ovation, man. I very much agree with you on this and as another comment says: “AAA studios can’t be expected to be held to the same standards as smaller studios like Larian. They should be held to much MUCH higher standards.”
Can we all agree that the dialogue, lore, plot and maturity are some of the best ever in videogames? I mean when a killer clown comes to kill you at the circus and the NpCs ACTUALLY respond to events that happened is refreshing and immersive. The amount of dialogue is insane in BG3.
@@Miko_of_the_North Bear sex, pronouns, a character editor that can't make females, only androgynous body types. For those of us who've had people we know DESTROYED by queer theory, we have zero tolerance for it's insanity.
@@Miko_of_the_North well, Act 3 was pretty buggy. And the dialogue isn't quite on the level of old Bioware games like Dragon Age Origins. That said, I think Larian has one thing most AAA developers don't have. Leadership that gives a damn about something else other than making money. The game just feels like a lot of love and care went into it.
@@seanwilliams7655 yeah act 3 was disappointing performance wise. But the amount of geometry and NpCs in such a small area really makes it seem like a giant city.
@@ewjiml And still Act 3's performance is probably better than your average AAA game at launch... heck, even my outdated gaming laptop is somewhat keeping up. And yeah, Larian is working hard to fix problems, producing 2 big patches and multiple hotfixes within the first month, even adding stuff. I've seen big games who needed a lot of love who didn't get that kind of love for half a year.
God everyone needs to share this mans video. He has so accurately summed up how we all feel and what corporations need to do. More content creators need to band together and raise these points. We can win if we all stand together!
As someone who tried a game developing course, I can say that the Game Development Theory is based around the state of "flow", where you are either having so much fun, so much challenge or so much focus that you lose track of time. Then it also underlines the importance of player agency, as that is what defines the game medium. Both of these core aspects seem to be blatantly ignored or resisted by so many games, to the point I rarely buy games anymore despite being a gamer. The ones I do buy are usually either indie, RPG Survival, or titles well received and recognized by other gamers. Why? Because there's no trust anymore. Not in reviewers, not in journalists, not in the developers' descriptions of their own games, and not on the online stores that sell the games. They simply broke the single most important aspect of long-time trading: preserving and increasing trust.
Well said! I bought Starfield on Series X based on what reviewers and Bethesda were saying about the game, enough said. Then bought BG3 on PS5, was blown away and bought it again on PC because I felt that compared to what Starfield offered for the cost, BG3 deserves at least twice the money for what you get! I was so grateful to Larian and everyone involved for making BG3 that I was throwing money at them! Starfield however, Bethesda should be paying me to play that game!
Most RPG, Strategy, and Tactical players have abandoned AAA developers years ago. I think Larian is starting to reach AAA quality (what it should be), and I hope they keep performing as well as they have.
I think they have the potential to go above and beyond where they are now through recruiting many more like-minded staff... But, they HAVE to be exactly that: like-minded! If Larian maintain their passion and dedication/work ethic, they can easily become the best games developer of all time. Honestly, they are pretty much there for me already and I just have huge amounts of respect for their team and all of those involved in the making of BG3. What a masterpiece! And the voice acting is just on another level! Sony finally have some serious competition with regards to story writing, character development and acting within video games. I honestly think the only two studios outwith Sony's umbrella who have really made me care about the story and characters were CD Projekt (Witcher 2 and 3) and Rockstar (Read Dead Redemption 1 & 2). Now, however, Larian have come in and not just stepped up to the plate, the ran way beyond it! The amount of time and effort that has gone into all of the different narrative paths based on your choices alone is just unbelievable! They really have done what most AAA devs thought was impossible and made them all look tremendously stupid in the process... Why are AAA devs making games with a tenth of the content, poor stories and shoddy scripts/acting? Why are they essentially making the same game over and over and just sticking a new name or number on it and getting away with it!? Larian are tge prime example of what AAA devs should have been achieving for years now yet, only a very tiny number of them have even come close. That is rather embarrassing. All they care about is money and now it is so glaringly obvious. It's also glaringly obvious that Larian whole-heartedly care about their fans and consumers. They want people to love their games as much as they do. They want to make games people have been begging most of their lives for a developer to make! That's the standard of service and goals all AAA devs should be setting out to achieve from the get go!! Well done Larian. You guys are just inspirational and make me wish I had chased a career in the gaming industry... Every other developer, eyes or on you to see how you respond after this epic masterpiece. Hey, even Hello Games are setting a whole standard of their own with NMS and deserve a mention! Like, wtf is going on in the gaming industry!?!?! Haha
Agreed, tbh I’m considering this their very first AAA quality game it is extremely well done from the simple things like graphics to the deep and impactful narratives where your decisions have impact. No one else is able to compete with this quality in the “aaa” industry as they have all plateaued decades ago
I really appreciated this monologue. I played BG2 so many times as a kid and now, as an adult with kids, a demanding job, etc., I don't have time for mediocre nonsense.
While I sympathize with his message. Heartless production of product is unavoidable when an organization becomes big enough it must make decisions by committee. Passion, interesting quality, and unique flavor comes from smaller groups. Sterile safe ideas come from big groups. Asking for passion, interesting quality, and unique flavor from a large, shareholder, organization (similar to Government) is probably unreasonable.
That part about education was truly hilarious. I am a developer and most of my acquaintances are either developers, designers or artists, some of them in the game industry. I know how games are made and how the ambition of a game, the size of a studio and the importance of a publisher impact development, and my outrage was actually higher than that of the average unhappy player, even before Baldur's Gate 3 released. Yes, Blizzard, Ubi Soft and others used to be known as companies that we could give money to without thinking. They also used to be known as companies that weren't publicly owned. To declare that the cluelessness of uneducated customers is the reason for the current climate is simply ludicrous. I am not developing games but business applications and websites. However, the same sort of bullshit that spoiled the game industry also spoiled mine. The executives need to have a clear view of how good the performances are, so key performance indicators are listed, very synthetic value that directly translates how good perfromances are, like users per day or the percentage of resolved tickets. This sounds very good at first on paper, but then managers find that it's easier to influence these indicators themselves than whatever they are designed to measure. Web pages are programmed to refresh regularly to multiply ad views as if users were several times more numerous, features are implemented to either clog the user experience so they spend more time on the service or to force them to come back several times to increase online presence and daily users and new policies are implemented so that tickets whose problems cannot be handled by tthe support are marked as solved, alongside reducing the amount of solving that the support is responsible for/allowed to handle so that a higher percentage of tickets can be marked as "solved" with a less experienced and less important workforce. Just as they did in the software industry, they did in the game industry. The KPIs used in modern games are pretty standard across the board, making comparisons all the easier between games for executives and shareholders, and modern games from AAA studios are tailored to optimise these indicators rather than to be fun to play. That's why all these games are now following the footsteps of EA games in being live services, and FarmVille before that. - Making up some reason for the game to be online only so that presence can be monitored better - Making the gameplay primarily centered around multiplayer interaction so that players spend more time online doing the exact same things again and again with or against each others rather than specific solo content that has to be designed and developed - Making special online or multiplayer contents, distinctions, cosmetics that player have to either grind for or buy by the piece so that they either increase engagement metrics or funnel in cash. Yes, these games are absolutely bland, but the only way to keep shareholders happy is to keep making games that are at least on par with other games of the same sort. Not only shareholders have an important decisionary role in these publishers, but it's basically illegal in the US to do something that might be considered to make the shareholders gain less returns. In a sense, yes, players have to be educated in how games are made in order to understand why Baldur's Gate 3 cannot be the norm. Because there are very precise reasons why it's that way. But contrary to what some of these people declared, it has nothing to do with Larian being a "large studio" or them having been funded to do the game, especially considering that both statements are false, and all to do with Larian being mostly privately owned and therefore not subjected to that whoring competition that modern studios are now perpetually involved in. If Baldur's Gate 3 ever leads to a new norm, it will be either because large publishers learn to ditch these artificially inflated KPIs or because new private studios emerge and send the ones subservient to that cynical system down into the abyss.
" it's basically illegal in the US to do something that might be considered to make the shareholders gain less returns." What. Seriously and if so why!?
@@phantom-ri2tg Dodge v. Ford Motor Co. (February 7, 1919) From Wikipedia: Dodge v. Ford Motor Company is a case in which the Michigan Supreme Court held that Henry Ford had to operate the Ford Motor Company in the interests of its shareholders, rather than in a manner for the benefit of his employees or customers. It is often taught as affirming the principle of "shareholder primacy" in corporate America.
I literally had never played a game in BG3's style but it quickly became my favorite game of all time, and I think that says a lot about the overall quality of the game.
I find myself becoming drawn to games with an in depth complex story. Before it was the gameplay, it's still important, but this is more of an interactive movie. Your choices literally have consequences. some better some worse. You can choose not to save someone, but they may have been able to help you later on. maybe that's why you save them. maybe you don't because your character is evil or the person is an irredeemable criminal. It's always been about the decision making being meaningful. It's nice that it's not just an illusion. you're not locked out of the full story, but things become easier or harder depending on your decisions in the past. That is literally life. This game allows for so much creativity.
I usually don’t play games like BG3 but I really enjoy it. I already played a good 30 hours of it and can’t wait to play more. A big plus for me is that it isn’t scary. Nothing creeps up on me to kill me.
I mean, except for Knights of the Old Republic 2, which had massive chunks of the game cut, and then years later people were able to data mine the files
But it had zero to do with the box or the store you bought it from. That was before the gaming industry realized their customer base was comprised mostly of dumbfucks that would buy a smelly turd if there was enough marketing hype for it.
I'm in my early 50s and I do remember browsing the games section of the store to find a new game to try out. I still own a few of them, including Diablo II, LOTRO, and WoW, among others. I miss things like game manuals and physical maps.
The good times. I got whole shelves of physical disks of various games, old or more recent, real or pirated and copied onto a physical disk. Feels amazing to just have these physically forever without the risk of some corpo pulling the plug on their always online game once it stops being profitable in the moment.
I did a bit of googling, and I just realized Baldurs Gate 3 is longer than the Mass Effect series and possibly has more meaningful content. I think it might be the greatest RPG of all time, possibly.
This one of the best speeches on the state of the games development I have heard so far, very well written and delivered, and all very true, Well done.
When the bliz higher ups actually made fun of their own fanbase? Ya, that's exactly what it looked like. N Im not even a consumer of videogames anymore. Might get back into it if the trend becomes the norm.
It's both scary and sad to know that there are many kids thess days who don't even know what it was like to have a good quality game that wasn't chock full of predatory FOMO microtransactions and "engagement" mechanics.
Games like this one always have been outliers. People just picture the absolute best of out of 3 decades of gaming when they think about the past. I started playing games on a commodore 64, and the amount of broken, unfun games has been as high if not higher "back in the day". The amount of budget games and movie tie ins on eveythinh from c64 over snes to ps2 is staggering.
@@Spectacular_Insanityas a pretty old gamer, i can attest you that full price games with unfixeable bugs that where (not kidding) 30 minutes of playtime on nes, snes and ps1, wherent great either.
Most of these AAA studios are far behind it, but let's not devalue Larian's work by saying they just met the basic standard. They have far exceeded it.
You nailed pretty much every point. BG3 is one of the best games I’ve ever played in every aspect of the game. My son has spent countless hours on ToTK. These games are way above most other games released in the past few years.
As a dev I can definitely tell you that when your passion is also your job, eventually the job aspect overcome the passion side. It takes a long time and it is our own issues to fix and one thing I teach and warn newcomers in the industry. Make sure to find the fun in the challenges and be proud of the feature, polish it as you go, take ownership, push it further make it your own... unfortunately if you are 1 of 9000 devs in a game there's little to no flexibility toward personal passion or ideas. If you take agency to go further you're gonna be roguing from the plan even if it comes from the right places and would benefit the product overall. You will most likely get in trouble ... The management is to blame, the investors are to blame, the gaming industry is now the highest entertainment market so indeed it's now run corporately and corporation kills passion. Buy indies instead of AAA you'll find sooo many gems in there for like 10-20$ and you'll feel the difference right away, The devs were passionnate, it reflects on the product.
That's the reason I quit the games industry, can't help to lose passion when all sorts of shitty anti fun anti player decisions are forced onto you. Also other IT industries pay significantly better, leaving that toxic cesspool of an industry was the easiest decision of my life. Keeping games development as a hobby is definitely the way to go for me.
I left game dev and became a industry graphics dev instead, that paid better and less stress. I'm a write game after work, it something I can completely put my passion into.
@@KanpachiGaming It's a really sad reality. When i first started 12 years ago there was a saying that the career expectency was 5 years before moving out. It changed over the years as the toxic overtime kinda got removed-ishhh ... but yeah really sad that you changed but it's mostly important to respect ourselves and our own goals and happiness.
I worked in the industry for a total of 20 years, my last stint being 12, and my last 2 years with a AAA studio that rhymes with "gizzard." A little inside info: their latest title features a disturbing amount of content, assets, and gameplay features that were pulled from the previous title in the franchise's alpha. I did what I could, along with a lot of other fantastic developers, to champion for more complex gameplay, more base game content, and more meaningful player choices, but time and again, the Studio reps shut us out/down, telling us it was more important to hook new customers, not monetized enough, and too complex to be worth the cost to investors. Eventually, they wore me down and I quit to go to indie development. Long story short, that failed and I quit the industry altogether. Experience/education enough?
@@MastaGambit That is a very long story. At first, I tried working with a number of indie studios as a texture artist, level/environment designer, and 3d asset artist, the things I enjoyed doing the most. Each project was unsuccessful for a multitude of reasons, from project leaders not really knowing how to lead a team, to feature creep making the game just near impossible to ever finish, to people abandoning the project... eventually, I just got tired of the bull and set out to make my own game on my own... It was going to be a turn-based RPG set in Hell, called Nine Hells, where you play as a woman with no memory of her past had to try to figure out what happened to her and her world. The big twist at the end was going to be that YOU were responsible for the end of your world by opening a rift to hell, and the resulting cataclysmic event had taken your memories and powers... Yeah, it was edgy... Well, fast forward years of work and thousands of dollars later, I was barely making progress, had started working 2 jobs to support my family, my depression and PTSD was beating me down, and I was just starting to lose my passion for game development in general. I scrapped my project when my daughter started to show interest in game development, so that we could do a project together, but it had taken about a year to get a first Alpha together for Prototype Paladin, a side-scrolling Megaman style game, but with a somewhat open world and a Souls-like twist. It was going well, but my daughter lost interest and I was just so over working on computers day and night... then I had multiple organ failures that hospitalized me for almost 6 months and left my practically bed-ridden for 2 years. My passion for everything was gone, my marriage was suffering, I felt so guilty and depression was destroying me... BUT, I started making it a point to eat healthier, get out and walk daily, and eventually my health got better, which helped my mental state. I lost almost 200 pounds in the last 2 years. I started doing things from my youth that I had stopped, including recreational/competitive shooting, hiking, camping, fishing, miniature painting, sculpting, playing D&D and writing D&D related content, and now my family does a lot of these things with me, as they all took to it and love it as much as I do. We play regular games of D&D with some family friends and I am writing a book that I started writing in high school, that was destroyed by my father's religious fanatic wife when I was in the Army, but am thinking of writing it as a TTRPG game instead of a D&D campaign setting. I have long since gotten help with my depression and my life is pretty mundane, opposed to the constant go-go-go life I was living while in game development... but I am happy with my simple life. This is the short version. TBH, I often tell people that my life may not be great and may not have always been great, but it was never boring. Been through a lot of things, starting at a very young age, and I've been wealthy, homeless, and am glad to have experienced more out of life than most people. Maybe I will write my memoirs some day.
Not a dev, but I work in an industry that is heavily involved with investors, and have attended meetings where it was emphasized that the investors - not our customers - are the center of our focus as a business. That, to me, is lunacy. Customers are the only reason a company remains in operation. Customers are what pays the bills! Investors are just leeches who take far more than they’ve put in. Our entire corporate capitalist structure is backward, and the moment any game studio or publisher decided that games were a profit-making commodity rather than a passion to provide wonderful experiences is the moment they were completely lost.
@@reyvynnightveil1706 I can feel the pain from trying to do something but loosing all interest, I can only wish you good luck and courage ! I hope everything will improve in your life !
@@reyvynnightveil1706Fuck yeah man. You're amazing and did what your heart body and mind truly needed and you have come such a long way. Good job man, and thank you for sharing your story.
You articulated this extremely well. This is also why indie games are taking so much of the market away from them. Their greed is blinding them from those facts you've pointed out. And will keep them from listening to us.
BG3 made me realize my money should be spent where it is earned. All other game devs got some work to do... they haven't earned my money in a long time.
My friends thought it was weird that I wouldnt get hyped for some games. Years later, now they understand more and more. I trust maybe 3 developers and a wonderful indie community. Really gave me time to dive into and cull the backlog without really missing out on much. It warms my heart to see this kind of shit get more and more attention. I'd love it to go back to a feature complete norm. Till then, i got my old consoles and a hell of a library to go through.
It isn't like indie developers are some bastion of superiority. A lot of them follow the same patterns that AAA companies do because they see it as a way to make a living. A lot of them take a shot at making a game, half-arse it, and give up halfway through. Most games now, indie or not, are garbage. Good games are rare.
I couldn't have said it better myself! I noticed this trend starting to happen back in 2005, and my spending habits immediately began to reflect it. I began to mostly ignore AAA titles and buy from companies like egosoft. In the last five to ten years, it's really gone off the deep end and I won't touch a AAA title no matter who makes it or if it's a sequel to something I was really excited about. If it's not from a small company or an indie developer, I don't want it. Hell, I've bought more commodore 64 games in the last few years than I have Triple-A garbage.
I very rarely read, hear, or watch an opinion piece that i agree with every point the writer makes to the point of outward vocal agreement. This was that rare video! Well freakin done! I think the main thing is game companies want to treat us as dumb kids. We all want the feeling we felt when we were kids booting up our favorite game, not to be taken advantage of like we are kids.
Larian needs to watch this. I was so hyped for Halo Infinite and when it came out it was unfinished and micro transactions out the butt. Like u said, $60 game for BG3, but the content alone far exceeds expectations and price. Other companies need to follow suit
I was served a poorly cooked meal once and took issue with it. The Restaurant claimed I was wrong for condemning fish overcooked to the size of a cracker. To avoid creating a scene, I paid but told them, enjoy it-you're never getting any more from me. They went out of business. We need to boycott mediocrity from game companies or any company or it will never stop.
And that's just on my second playthrough with an entirely new level of things I missed the first time. Wait until the multiplayer crowd gets organized and DM Mode comes online, for free. I hope Larian Dark Urges them all down or knocks them away from our expectations like a squirrel who micro bitches at you to pay them more money.
i feel like becoming dark urge in larian HQ for how fucked mechanics and act 3 are. typical: make the biginning great to get good reviews, then f our customers.
@@thecursed01 nah, it's just Act 1 was done first (logical) and so they had more time to take care of bugs. And it's also by far the most played part in the beta by players.
You have been so spot on about this issue. They keep trying to change the argument but don't let them. It is about value. I don't want to pay for a game over and over again and be put on a hamster wheel to make people money. I want to have worthwhile experiences. If the focus is on the money then the game will not be as good as it could be if they focused on the game play. The play is the thing. Thank you for stating this so clearly. Maybe someone will hear you.
dude. You just earned yourself a sub. I agree whole heartedly. We just want good games that aren't trying to milk us of all the money we got when lifes hard enough to afford as is. THIS is what makes bg3 special and the standard games should be held to
Perfect analogy. I work in a hotel, I wish we could treat people like game devs do. “Sorry we didn’t clean the room but you can still pay full price for it.””You can’t expect us to wash the blankets, who do you think we are, the Ritz?”
All I can say is well spoken. A perfectly measured and prosed response to voice the feelings and frustrations of the wider gaming community. I hope to see a brighter future for this industry which has had such an impact on my life.
Im usually the type to skip dialogue and experience the actual gameplay bits of my games more, but BG3 is so well intertwined with DnD lore, mechanics, and has so many great dialogue options that your choices of speech ACTUALLY matter and dont just trail off to the same conclusion. Refreshing to see that. And the gameplay of adventuring, looting, fighting, is just immaculate and addicting. I hadnt even realised that my save file had hit 10hrs of total playtime on my first day playing it and i havent even SCRATCHED the surface of act 1!
This, this 1000X this. I HATE dialog, it's always so pointless! just a way to pad out time and in a lot of games it's not even skippable. BG3 has made me actually CARE about the dialog and what the characters are going to say. I get a little blip of happiness everytime I come back to camp to see a floating speech bubble above someone's head. The characters are compelling, even the ones I don't have a fondness for. Larian made sure all dialog was skippable, and then convinced me I didn't need to use that button.
I've seen that too. I usually read much faster than the lines can be read and I'm used to walls of texts from older RPGs. But I started to notice that the delivery is amazing and there's a lot of physicality in even seemingly simple scenes with all the mocap. Hell, sometimes I'm just there for MCs goofy facial expressions.
@@trapfethen Dialogues in RPG it's not always pointless. Many games incorporate branching dialog options that allow players to make choices that impact the game's outcome.Dialog can help create a rich and immersive game world by providing insights into its history, culture, and lore. It adds depth and realism to the environment, making the game engaging.
@@teoadventures2564 I'm not going to get into a debate over this. Most digital RPGs have large amounts of pointless dialogue. It's particularly frustrating when dialogue is primarily communicated through text. I didn't download a book, I downloaded a game. There are some RPGs that use dialogue to primarily advance the narrative, meaningfully develop characters, and expand on the world, but it isn't many. This is tied to the fact that many newer RPGs throw in pointless time wasting quests, which pretty much makes any dialogue related to such quests pointless by definition. BG3 has very little of either. No pointless quests (or at least I can just run past anything I perceive as pointless), character dialogue is always engaging and moving the narrative along some meaningful axis.
@@trapfethen That's just *your* *opinion* , RPGs cater to a diverse audience with varying preferences. Some players are more focused on the story, characters, and world-building aspects of the game, while others prioritize action and gameplay, like you. While there are few games that fits your criteria, it's not wise to group all of them, like my first statement, dialogue in RPG it's not always pointless.
You hit it on the head! I am so hesitant to buy new games these days. I was SCARED to buy Baldur's Gate 3. Glad I did, but I shouldnt have to worry about wasting money on a game i want to just play to decompress and have fun. We just want quality for our money and quality doesnt always mean great grahpics.
Larian took the time to listen to its audience. They customed design this game for a particular fan base. That buzz attracted a larger audience. Now the gain more fans but going forward they will most likely keep catering to their core audiences. They will keep playing to the market that will build the biggest follwing...within reason.
Wouldn't be able to agree more. I'm afraid that we are all part of the problem though. Taking me as an example - I play games for the last 30 odd years - I still remember the Lost Vikings from Blizzard & I bought Diablo 4 as I was still (despite all the crap happening around them for the last few years) under the spell of old Blizzard studio. My wake up call came with Baldurs Gate 3 - honestly, same as you mentioned in the video. I played the game and thought to myself - "freaking impossible". I played a complete product from A - Z, a product with the world of mechanics and amazing story without being asked for my credit card even once during the gameplay. There was no major bugs, no major fixes released with short notice, no gamebreaking issues that could stop me from playing or asking to replay the whole game again. It. Was. Blast. I forgot this feeling - literally forgot how it is to play a complete game. Hence, I will never ever buy a single product from Blizzard again. This goes for Activision, Ubisoft and many others. It's sad though that we will most likely not get a similar quality until people realize the same thing and will let some of these big AAA whales die.
I really don't understand how anyone could expect Diablo IV to be anything more than a pile of crap. Weren't all the red flags enough? Diablo III was godawful, the company got sued for sexually harassing their employees, WoW has been dogshit ever since Mists of Pandaria, then the whole fiasco with Diablo Immortal, then the bailout on OW2 PvE mode. I mean, come on brother... Just channel your inner red shirt guy and stop buying crap from developers that treat you like garbage. There are PLENTY of excellent games out there, BG3 just being the latest and most prominent example. But if you're willing to dig a bit deeper, you'll find dozens of gems like The Bard's Tale 4, for example.
I have been playing Blizzard games since Starcraft 1. Played World of Warcraft for years, and I Love Starcraft 2, both the campaigns and the coop. Seeing them remove the TCP/IP from D2R in the last minute over their paranoia gave me a bummer, but seeing Diablo Immortal plus the chaos happening in Blizzard right now I do not trust them at all. I will wait a month or so if I am interested in any of their games. Not until Bobby Kotick is removed at least.
@@JakandDexsters In my part of the world? Most people at that age wanting to play AAA assuming it is not F2P will just pirate. If no crack is available because a certain Austrian company delayed it, they will wait it out and play something else in the meantime.
@@rps215 i just pirate as a general rule by now. Then after an hour or two, if its a good game, i'll go and buy it on steam. Unless its a paradox interactive game, in which case i just pirate it again and again for every DLC that comes out. idc how good the game is, im not paying 300 for it.
God damn this is proper journalism around gaming. A big thank you my man for saying what all hardcore true gamers who see through this facades feel. Hopefully we can educate the masses and casuals to get the industry to be better. ❤💪 many, many thanks homie!
We'd get more games like Balders Gate 3 if the developers working on that game were also the owners. The issues with the game industry come down to the workers not owning the businesses they work at.
All of it is true at the same time. 1) gamers support bad practices 2) gamers demand bad practices to stop 3) game studios have become complacent. Devs are frustrated by AAA studios just as much as gamers are. I’m a gamer and game dev. I want to work on amazing games.
AAA studios are doing the equivalent of a restaurant bringing your plate to you without its sides, and without having cooked the food. Then telling you that the sides cost extra and will come as an expansion to the meal later, and if you want condiments that'll be a dollar per squirt or spoonful. Oh, and we'll probably get around to cooking your food after the potatoes get released... if you're still here and willing to pay to sit in your seat longer. If not, thank you for coming and I'm just so so so very sorry that you didn't get the experience on your plate that the menu made you think you'd get. We understand your concerns and will take them all into consideration for tomorrow night's meal.
I love going to small concerts of smaller bands. But there is a point when a band moves from going on stage out of passion to going on stage because they must to pay their bills. And it's always sad to see such a band lose their "glow"... In a way it seems that the same can be said for game studios.
I played Diablo IV for about 150 hours. I tried really hard to like it, but after beating the campaign (which I really did like), I enjoyed very few of those hours. I actually parked it to replay Skyrim lol. Until Baldurs gate 3 came out. I’m 30-ish hour into Baldurs gate and I’m absolutely floored by how good it is. How fun it is to play. How memorable the experience has been so far. I can’t foresee wanting to put it away.
I bought BG3 a few days ago and I must say, I am having a ball exploring dialogue, gameplay, romance choices and the world of Baldur's Gate. Haven't had this much fun in such a long time as I've been depressed about where AAA gaming industry is heading and thought about giving up gaming. I will think carefully about who I buy games from from now on. I want to support any developer/publisher that makes games for fun and listens to their fans.
I think what we're seeing in gaming is the same thing that happened with movies. Where the critics start telling people what they're supposed to like and the people largely ignoring them.
Brandon doesn't open up with a strawman statement. He opens up with a false statement, a lie. If you apply rules of logic if A is false, anything you say - B - might or might not be true. Devs like him turned games, which were passion projects, into products, and then to maximize profits they turned those products into minimum viable products.
as someone who mainly gamed 2001 - 2015 I can confirm, back in that period there were a ton of massive quality games that for some reason were just made with no issues Morowind, Oblivion, Dragon Age, tons of RTs games, Half Life 1,2 , Crysis , Kotor 1,2 Mass Effects, it was a golden age...
I been gaming since 94 and online since 98. Also DIY PC building the same. You hit the nail on the head. Most of the gaming companies succumbed to greed from investors then were now trapped into answering to them. Games and gaming went downhill from there.
Somewhat ironically I'd say it was that 'golden age' that was the beginning of the end. Oblivion was incredibly watered down in complexity to Morrowind. Skyrim immensiely more so. Dragon Age 1 had some awesome mechanics for building your characters (especially for magic users) and a non-linear plot progression, then Dragon Age 2 turned into a very simple button masher for the most part. Mass Effect 1 may have had some pretty bad gunplay, but the rest of it was great, especially how it rarely seemed that any choice was intrinsically a bad one. Mass Effect 2 copied it's gameplay from the rising cover shooter trend, greatly watered down the dialogues, level up system and choices to steamline it for the shooter crowd. Although I will agree that the games from back then at least felt complete and had gone through a decent amount of QA before release. Some more than others mind you, but that may have been due to patches not being quite normalised or free yet on consoles.
@@ShaimingLong I’ve been desperate for a Morrowind remake for years. It’s the first game I truly fell in love with and it made me amazed at what is possible in video games. I still have dreams about the loading screens. 😅
the 90's was even more so. Games like command and conquer shot a full on b-movie for the sake of a niche pc game in '95 (and then did it again, and again and again for all the sequels, they even got actual b list celebrities to play parts for them in later titles) bg3 is kind of the modern equivalent of that with the insane volume of voice acting and original music scores put into it.
Ok. I'm sorry I've been gaming since the 90s, and this is just false. I get the sentiment. But you are showing pure nostalgia. I don't think I recall a single game that has ever released with no bugs. And this goes back all the way to the original NES. Hell, ocarina of time has upwards of 5 different versions to patch out glitches and bugs, and it still remains one of the greatest titles of that decade. As for Morrowind and Oblivion, I can agree they were both amazing games, but far, FAR from no issues. We have whole meme genres about how glitchy Oblivion NPCs were. The same with Half Life. You might want to check out Full Life Consequences.
I blame both. You are spot on about the "Corporate narrative" and I am certain that there are many great Devs out there, but I am deep inside the software development industry and I can unequivocally tell you that there are far too many lazy developers out there who are all to happy to code new bugs and ignore old ones. This is not a "Single source" problem, there are lots of things that need to improve.
@@joefloyd5766Well when you MUST participate in a fiat market system in order to feed yourself... You have to be in a position of grand freedom to create art, for art's sake and turn it into a video game available for millions of potential buyers.
@@joefloyd5766lmao so it's capitalism's fault that people are greedy? And by that logic, according to you, there are no greedy people in socialistic society?
AAA studios don't want to be held to the same standard because they know they can't match it. After decades of games turning from "the nerdy side thing" to "the mainstream entertainment," AAA studios also went from being large and successful because they had the most passion and talent to being large and successful because they had the best marketing and stuck to "old reliable." AAA studios make crappy games because they don't make games, they make money. And they're not interested in games, they're interested in money. So there's no passion behind their games, there's just passion behind "how do we get the most money for the least effort." Which is why they hemorrhage creative employees, because the creative employees aren't interested in being told "No no, that's not what made Call of Duty popular, look we've got a template just use it."
You nailed it right on the money. all the way around the game is great and BG 3 continues to release updates but they don't put them out as micro transactions and make us pay for it. I hope Larian Studios gets GOTY.
This encapsulates the problem with the gaming industry at a pretty fundamental level. Well said! Wish more people would see stuff like this so they could understand how it is that we're where we're at right now. The more people who know/understand this, the more difficult it will be for companies to pull the wool over our (collective) eyes. This video adds a great deal of value (heh, see what I did there) to this conversation. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
I really appreciate you bringing up and pushing back on the "dollars per hour played" approach to determining value in a game. It's such an awful metric and is, I believe, primarily but not exclusively the catalyst to the sorry state of game releases in this generation
The 1st single(ish) player game I've played in roughly 20 years. Enjoying my Story mode, solo (no companions, other than progressing some of their story lines) play through more than, possibly, any game I've ever played. BG3 is a special game.
Solo play feels like it's dying out indeed. Multiplay has become the magic wand to enhance shelf life, but also taken over focus from making a really good game
@@sneezyfido It feels like that because there's more money into multiplayer games (or single player games for mobile phones that basically live off micro-transactions). So there's little incentive to develop single player gems like Disco Elysium, for example.
I normally don't buy games because they're too expensive for me, a poor person, but I ended up having someone get it for me and this is the happiest I've been in years! I love this game. Its *fun*
i've been gaming since the late 70's-early 80's (yes im an old gamer :) ). I remember paying one price for a finished game that I put hours upon hours into. till the next game came out and repeated that process. You are right, these days, its almost expected to keep throwing money into a game just to play it. from micro-transactions to battle passes, paying for more seasons, and so on. when all we want is to pay one price for a finished game to put hours upon hours into. and you are right, thats why Elden ring, and now BG3 is getting so much love from the gamers. one price for a great game. I have no issue at all with DLC. if its done honestly, meaning they work on the DLC after they release the main game, not cut content just to sell that content as DLC later. I 100% agree with you on this video. Great job.
Dude do you remember when back in the day we bought Warcraft 3 it comes with a guide book of pictures of different units and hero stories. Oh man that was so neat
In my experience, this happens often because of incompetent and corrupted leadership in the game studios. It could be investors who know jack about game design but want to mess up with the process and decision making in the studio, or they withdraw; or some leader who has no professional capacity whatsoever in this role, but he/she is a friend of a very important shareholder, thus actually contributes no merits in the development yet causes lots of troubles and no one can criticize him/her in the team; or some company boss who does not understand game development and meets some con-man and puts him/her in a very high position in the team which usually has high salary and etc... And one thing about incompetent leaders, they will always blame others and they will hate real talent people because the latter make them look bad.
Really excellent video! I think Kenshi is another good example of a game with flaws, but that delivers an incredible experience and massive value and hence its popularity. Solasta is an example of a game like BG3 (arguably better in a couple of ways) where paid for DLC was done well. Essentially they said “we are able to make an SRD D&D game with these limitations. If it does well enough, we can expand upon it”. Upfront, and still delivering a complete experience while also leaving the door open for enrichment.
It's nice to have someone speaking with the voice of a true gamer. Thanks man. It was kind of rough watching videos at the earliest onset of this controversy, and not seeing anyone talking about the true culprit. Value is all anyone ever asks for, and it's a standard we haven't been meeting for a long, long time at this point.
This is a fantastic video essay. And honestly, nailed it on the head. The pursuit of profit over the pursuit of happiness is definitely at the core of the issue. I agree wholeheartedly that the value of games has gone down significantly through the years, especially by the big AAA developers. They know what they are doing. It's all about profits.
I'm going to cal bs on the the "We the consumer are not blaming the developper at their desks", it's usually the workforce of the studios that get death threats from the public... Not the CEO or the company as an entity.
I think this issue is multifaceted, but the easiest solution to all of this is to vote with your wallet. It does not matter how much shady stuff companies try to push if consumers would just stop buying in! Sadly consumers are generally not smart enough to act in their own interest unless they are presented with such a terrible proposition that they can't overlook it.
education and addiction is the biggest problem i've seen in today's gaming sphere people easily succumb to things that are bad in order to get that short rush of dopamine. but not realizing that they could have that dopamine last for days even a whole month if they would reject the scummy stuff being sold to them etc. and demanding that they get what they paid into the game and get everything that was promised right from the beginning none of this expansion crap, paid dlc, loot crates/box, gambling nonsense.
Asking for us to pay for Micro transactions to finish your game is the game equivalent of restaurants not paying the servers enough and expecting the customer to tip to make up the difference.
That's why, honestly, I almost gave up on AAA games in recent years. Baldur's Gate 3, despite being on the thin line in terms of its size, is still technically made by an independent company - in other words, indie. Perhaps the biggest indie in gaming history, but still indie nonetheless, in principle. It's noticeable in games when you see a company that made the game they wanted to make, and when they made the game to reach the largest number of buyers and maximize profits.
@@therustybucket221 Oh, I meant as in "It's on the thin line of being considered as a AAA game due to the size of the company and the game itself, although if you think about it carefully, it remains independent, even though it has made a game that competes with other AAA games." It wasn't a question about how big the game is, because it is indeed effing huge. If anything, it's pointing out this fact.
i wouldnt really call them indie, but i get where youre coming from. Its one of the few companies that are still privately owned instead of publicly traded. Used to be that all game devs were like that, but they've all sold out now and have to bow to the whims of people who have no idea what makes a good game.
@@ThinkBeyondOrdinary AAA has literally nothing to do with the size of a company or game. AAA is majority determined by the marketing budget. most "AAA" games come from non indie devs cuz they have a publisher to provide a big budget to market, but there's indie studios that still make AAA games, like Fromsoft and Larian. and Indie doesnt have anything to do with size of a company or game, its if they are self published or not.
I'm so grateful for BG3 coming out as it did. I looked forward to Starfield for years expecting a genre defining RPG, BG3 came out of nowhere and gave me that experience instead. I hate that this game will only become what it was supposed to be after mods come out in the next couple of months/years. welp.
My wife and I were so excited for Diablo 4. We bought the special pre order edition. Still to this day every time we try to play couch co op we can't get 5min in before it crashes or kicks us. It made us not even want to try to play anymore. It's sad.
I enjoyed D2, even D2R, plus Warcraft 3, and Starcraft 1 and 2. However, after the shitstorm in Blizzard, and then looking at Diablo Immortal, I do not trust them anymore and I'd wait only after a month or so before purchase. It is well founded apparently.
It amazes me how you expected ANYTHING else from Blizzard/Activision. You would have been better off throwing money in the trash. Less headaches and you wouldn't have supported a corrupt, broken company.
This has been a weird month. Thanks to Larian and From Software, I bought two new release games in a single month. I rarely buy anything younger than a decade anymore, because those old games are actually complete. I just love how angry the industry is getting over a good video game.
It's quite sad when you have to read between the lines from the devs that spoke out, in that they want to be able to do as Larian did, but the publishers and investors won't let them. But it only gets worse when the publishers speak out and claim they just can't financially take on the risk of making a game like BG3, all while knowing they do have the money and the quality dev teams to do even better than BG3, but short term gains override a long term investment.
I started Baulders on Friday and I must say what a breath of fresh air its been - beyond incredible, beyond not buggy, beyond what i paid for, just not seeing all the BS micro transaction "additions" trying to entice more money out of me. Ed: and omg, playing on Steam Deck, not having wifi checks or broken ass EA/Ubisoft/etc sub apps breaking my games??? 🙄 Great video. 100%.
While Baldur's Gate 3 still feels very much unfinished. Act III is very much broken if you don't go down a very clean path, I keep hearing the ending feels empty and has many parts cut out of it. But I also recognize that yes, there is passion and love behind the development and there's nothing inherently wrong with the game. If Larion patches the game and fixes it, Baldur's Gate 3 will be one of the greatest games of all time. But it's just not there right now and I only see myself dropping it down more and more with how I rate it.
AAA companies complaining about the quality of games like BG3 or Elden Ring is like hearing McDonald's complain that people think their food is cheap garbage. They sold their souls for a quarterly bump and ponder why their reputation fits their choices.
Thank for your analysis about the present discourse around this awesome game! It's fascinating how all the woes of video gaming development are a perfect microcosm to understand late stage capitalism but at a more human and relatable level.
I have experienced more than one bug while playing BGIII ... most of the bugs I encountered are easily solved with a quick save and restart though. Act III really really needs some extra work as well. BGIII is my favorite game of the year, hell maybe the decade regardless though. The game is fun to play, choices actually matter, there is no money milking and it helps that I am a huge RPG-geek :P
man i felt that no matter how much enthusiasm and passion for gaming too frequently i end up questioning myself why i love gaming and keep coming back games like baldur's gate are the reason and it is a wakeup call thank you for talking about this man and i hope one day we will see the sense of wonder of old in video games but what's terrible is that the new generation didn't grow in the times where games actually had quality so the more time passes the less people are willing to reconsider willingly without being forced by financial issues if the inflation and financial troubles of the present forces these assholes to start offering quality again, i guess there is some positive to the struggle, but it is a shame that we'd need this to require good standards of quality
It's my cats banana.
Join the Discord -> discord.gg/TpzCGXH6Gs
We know the names and home address of theses CEOs. let move out
The implication that we just need to be properly educated hearkens back to the moment that private utility companies took over the government by rewriting the textbooks
The hurt in your voice talking about Halo. I felt that. BG3 is downloading as I type this. Firdt time I've spent full price on a game since OW1. I've been very anti this shit for a long time and I get so disappointed everytime someone I know pre-orders or simply won't grind for something. I'm like "you're ruining this industry and you're all gonna be to blame when it becomes to much". Here we are. Smh. Oh wait, last time I spent actual money on a game was for the master chief collection through steam. Replaying the games with my siblings, like we did on release days 2 decades ago, worth every penny, ill do it again on another decade.
The AAA studios are absolutely correct, they shouldn't be as good as a indie developer. They should be MUCH better! An indie company should be the low mark of how good you should be, not the high water mark!
I think it's more important for Publishers to know how games are made, and then make sure that their associated devs make their games... fucking properly!!
That article is right. AAA studios can't be expected to be held to the same standards as smaller studios like Larian. They should be held to much, MUCH, higher standards.
True
Larian aren't a small studio. They grew to 400 people across 7 countries for BG3. Starfield apparently had a team of 500. Comparing BG3 with other AAA games is pretty fair as is. These companies won't lose business. They know what they're doing. They're making more money than ever by releasing pieces of shit. They'll just have a change of customer base. AAA games aren't for gamers anymore, they're for fans of mobile games and the clowns that play destiny 2.
@@tropicalape-bl2gxI’ve said this for a while now. No real gamers that have a PASSION for good games are playing AAA titles. The only people I see playing those games still are the same people that get sponsored for doing so.
No real gamer launches a new AAA title with any passion that isn’t trying to milk rage views from genuine gamers who warn not to pay for crap like this while hate viewing. It’s not enough to just stop playing these crappy games, we have to IGNORE and permanently filter out the corporate mouth pieces being paid to say they’re fun vs. the genuine gamers who put it down after a steam play through trying to speed a refund because they never wanna touch it again with how bad it is.
Good rule of thumb-if you preorder any game, you’re part of the problem. If you stream these lame AAA titles you’re part of the problem. If you even HATE VIEW then you’re part of the problem. Don’t pay to help a game company fix their game they’re never gonna fix anyway-that’s THEIR job BEFORE launch!
True, here the thing it wasn't a AAA Dev that was complaining it was a smaller mid size dev from a small company and the narrative somehow got changed into AAA DEVS frighted of BS3!!! Yeah I am sure the Bethesda's EA and Ubisoft of the world are trembling in their boots..Not..They all make more money off their games in a Month then BG3 will prob make in its lifetime. That's the Sad truth look at how excited everybody is for the New Cyberpunk expansion! Gamers never learn
@@AlbertoMartinez765 It got changed because AAA devs started supporting that saying the same thing and that's when it drew everybody's attention
You hit the nail on the head. Consumers want value. Games just don't provide it anymore and when a game comes along that does, it impresses everyone.
Csuites need to be studied by AI for their actual value for money and if anyone else could do the job, no I don't think Bobby Kotick types are the only ones who can 'close these big deals' its a giant lie that has ruined gaming.
Do consumers want value?
Really?
Then why did they shoved their money into the *** of those AAA studios all these years?
Did somebody forced them?
The players are the only ones to blame, because they went and will go along this shit.
@@axelstuart2707Normies and casuals are to blame
@@axelstuart2707Idk if im the only one but I avoid any games that have microtransactions. If it has those I avoid them because developers tend to put most of their focus in that system while ignoring the most important aspects of games. Leading to subpar money grabs.
@@exemida you're not the only one, but surely in the minority.
I don't avoid those games, but they are not worth full price to me.
Never spend any money on MS myself.
I used to be a software developer. Not a game developer (that was a side hobby, not my job) but I can 100% agree and back this up. Not just in games, but in all tech, deadlines are determined by the Sales Team, which has no idea how long it takes to actually make something, and are willing to sell sh*t in a bag as long as they can blame the devs for it being "unpolished" on release. It drove me crazy.
The market manipulation is huge. Stakeholder or shareholder interests feel the profits. ESGs from Blackrock are what pays every massive corp pushing woke.
And why is that?
I know this probably isn't a perfect solution but to be honest shouldn't the sales team not even know about the project until it's finished? This would solve them trying to figure out how to give you time to develop it and instead can just focus on how to market it and release it when the hype is highest, aka they can do their job while if you are for some reason still working on it all you are doing is taking care of bugs and glitches.
This is kind of what games used to do with their beta testing phase. Alpha was the project, beta was the testing phase, release was we are never gonna touch that again unless absolutely necessary. Atari up until PlayStation 2 usually used this model then when PlayStation 3/Xbox 360 era released consoles gained easy access to internet so everyone just stopped beta phases and made the release the beta phase for as long as the game made them money and it's been like that since from what I've seen anyway.
@@theoneamongthehidden4387 The problem is development generates debt and the earlier they pay off that debt the cheaper it is. You end up with a business model where companies have to sell before they have a product just to stay in business. This is messed up. It's anti-consumer and can only happen because the customers are brainwashed rubes.
It's no accident the best recent games have come from companies with low operating costs, that can afford to take risks and be creative.
@@theoneamongthehidden4387 As a software developer myself, the "rule of sales" is fine in the majority of cases. Many developers forget that their job is not to write a perfect code, it is to satisfy business and clients. It is better to release two features that are not optimized and polished than to release a "finished" one. That way you both satisfy the client, at least partially (in 90% of the cases, it is better to have slow-working analytics that does not include all metrics than to not have any, for example), and grab early feedback to steer the feature in the direction client wants (because it is usually something different from the preliminary discussion).
Now, there is a big difference in gaming development. In the case above, there is a trade-off of earlier access to functionality for worse user experience. Unfortunately, user experience IS functionality in gaming industry so, by doing this, you often make the game overall worse. BG3 is a great example of that, actually. They kinda release their game THREE YEARS prior to the official release and there are still problems that gone unfixed since that time. What is the area of the game that was playtested for three years? Act I. By the time most gamers got to act II, Larian already released patch to cover the most glaring problems and get their glowing reviews.
Most likely we'll get BG3: Definitive Edition in three years, when they actually finish the companions storylines and dialogues, get rid of crashes and scrypting bugs and polish the game overall, just like it happened with DOS1&2. But to call the game as it is finished product is either a lie or an ignorance.
I‘m actually very grateful towards all the AAA developers coming out of the woodwork and declaring themselves inadequate in comparison to Larian Studios. Really helps me avoid greedy and lackluster companies in the future. I‘m keeping a list. Just in case.
Funnily enough pretty much all the devs that did this were ones I had already stopped buying games from.
Mind sharing it?
@@klyxes My list is EA, Ubisoft, Epic, Activision, Blizzard, 2K, Gearbox...I have not purchased from most of these in over 10 years and If I'm not really impressed with starfield Bethesda is going on the list
I just pay attention to who whined the loudest as a game maker and said. "Nope, never buying from you ever again." I'm enjoying BG3 so much, and I had funded it early access. It's the happiest I've ever been about a product.
You mean like larian?
Stop praising the game as finished when it obviously wasn't
I am grateful that so many AAA devs have come forward to remind us us to avoid any projects they're involved in.
Nailed it.
A… men! And I’m not even religious lol xD
@@flipingboredcritic😕
Amen ! And I am religious
This comment got Christian’s and atheists agreeing !!! LoL
I am a gave dev and I was pretty lucky to realize early on in my career that I don't want to work in an AAA studio. I've heard a lot of first-hand experiences from people who did work in AAA studios and to me such condition were unacceptable. Basically it's like working on conveyor belt, with a degree in astrophysics, while your boss is an accountant. I chose indie road and the first studio I got in was a brand new studio at the time, only 5-6 of us there. The studio is much larger now. Because of all the freedom I had there and I still do, respect from my coworkers and the boss, after 4 years of development we made a game which turned out to be a success beyond anything we could ever imagine. Some say it's one of the best in it's genre, better than some AAA games.
What's the game?
Tell the game name and ill give you a kiss
I think they want to be modest and not come across as advertising, and I support that approach, I do it too with my mods when I want to discuss what's available but not point fingers.
@@MagicGonads but we just want to try out their amazing game, lol
With a degree in astrophysics... for some of your coworkers; I'll bet you mean that quite literally.
Imagine a world were everyone just stopped buying games from greed-driven companies. Sounds crazy I know.
I can't. Back when I cared, or had faith in basically anyone, I screamed and blogged endlessly about the corruption and conversion of the industry to micro-transactions. This was 13 years ago at least. Addicts throw their money away, and gamers are now nothing more than addicts. No reason, no logic, no self-restraint. So yes, it's crazy to expect intelligence.
Imagine a world where everyone just stopped buying into capitalist bullshit full stop...
... Well, I mean it sounds really ideal, but everyone would die, since capitalism is holding humanity hostage by this point, literally milking maximum profit from the very things people need to live. Games probably not included in most cases, but I'd probably have suicided if not for games by now... so the very most I can do is wait for Steam sales.
@@Demane69 Back in the mid 2000s, I had very strong opinions about the anti consumer direction of the Battlefield series. My last BF was 2142 which EA shut down in 2014 then bullied a community server project out of existence in 2017. It's been apparent for over a decade that the big studios do not respect their games or their customers. And why should they? The shovel-ware keeps selling.
I did. Hell, it bothered me playing Sekiro, a good game, that Activision has its name on the cover.
Lowest common denominator type people will always buy CoD, Madden, and FIFA for console. PC is the only platform with (somewhat) discerning customers.
"AAA studios can't be held to the same standards as an independent studio" that is 100% correct, they shouldn't be held to that standard.
They should be held to higher standards, because they have more money and people to throw into their games.
One thing you don’t mention that I think should be brought up is that BG3 was in early access for about 3 years before it was officially released. Early access ended at some point in act 1 and the slowly added in classes and characters over the years. That’s why act 1 is damn near flawless.
Yeah - and honestly, I want more dev studios to, even if they don't go early access, at least be willing to work on a game for years. For many of them, of course, that requires that a publisher be willing to fund them for that length of time. I'm really glad that Larian was given the time necessary to make this game to their own standards; had it been EA funding development, it would not be this good.
@@Parker8752 Hasbro needed a hit as well, as they've been letting D&D suffer under WotC lately.
BG3 will be the last D&D game for an unknown amount of time because it's a dying brand.
Larian made a gem, and I only hope they do so again with the next Divinity title eventually.
The key is the time and effort put in. TotK was a major release from a major company, and it was also fantastic. They already had the majority of the overworld built, and still spent 7 years and pushed the deadline back multiple times just so they could have a great game. They CARED. Thats the key.
@@Parker8752Let me put this into perspective for you aswell... Take EA, a developer that has around 1300 staff compared to the 140-ish working at Larian or the team of around 40 people at Hello Games. They could have so many absolute gems on the go simultaneously with multiple teams working on different IPs constantly and achieve that which is standard for the likes of Larian and Hello Games. They could be working on Games from early access until years beyond release and make them near perfect! So, why don't they achieve this???
Money. They prefer to have two separate teams , 3 or 4 at most working all working on annual titles which, instead of releasing one game and updating for years, they can re-release the same game with minimal uodates year after year and just stick a new number on the end and charge full price! It also cuts their workload drastically while making profits skyrocket because people will always buy FIFA (now EA FC) or Madden for example...
Larian and Hello are literally what studios like EA could be achieving with every new game release if they took the time and had the same motivations and passion. But, they are only interested in money vs time and resource with little to no interest in their consumers... AAA developers will have to step up and perform or lose out to devs like Hello and Larian. Simple. Because eventually, people will become wise to this fact and refuse to buy the same game every year (hopefully).
@Ed2smooth good work takes time; especially if you're doing it sustainably (turns out you get much better work when people aren't working 80-100 hour weeks). There are diminishing returns on having more people working on a game- the more there are, the more time needs to be spent on coordinating their efforts.
A major studio could absolutely make a similarly ambitious game in less time; it's just that for the majority of people working on it, it would be the last game they ever made, and it would be a buggy piece of shit.
I remember a time when game journalism focused on consumer protection... sad that it has devolved to being lazy reprints of PR releases or misguided attempts to cover for the mistakes of greedy CEOs. Great video Legendary! You've gained yourself one more sub!
🫡 Welcome aboard!
Yep how else will they get review access to games when it comes out. It not about doing it right but who goes first.
You do? Were trexes still alive back then?
You talk about the game journalism that hyped up that mediocred thing that is BG3 with a hell lot of ridiculous lies and idiotic comparisons?
I agree with your disappointment in "journalism" but it has a similar problem to AAA games. Who is paying for it? Advertisers, not the users. Thus the articles favor their source of money. Like most things that are free, if you aren't paying for something, you are the product.
While I understand the constraints AAA studios experience, I fail to see how that becomes my problem as a customer. I never forced them to become a publicly traded company that now forgoes creative decision freedom in exchange for more profits. I don’t hate AAA studios, but I feel BG3 was a wake up call to them that gamers are tired of the direction they’re taking games with being rushed, while asking for more and more of our money.
it becomes your problem when you have to choose how you spend your money lol, it's literally your problem more than anyone else's
This. Imagine the argument in any other industry. Saying something like why are my bikes tires squares instead of circles, it's really terrible to ride. Then having everyone clap back that you just don't understand how hard bikes are to make, rather than just getting a refund. 😂
@@XerrolAvengerII My point is bigger studios created this problem themselves and I'm not obligated to help them meet their quarterly financial goals. It's not really a problem at all for me to say "No thanks" and walk away.
While I agree with you, the thing is... you're not their customer. They target their products to a different type of person, and exploit ludopathy and that sort of stuff. The games that make more money are mobile games where just a few "whales" expend several hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. They just don't care if you don't buy their game. Many others will. Meanwhile, the quality of big budget games has gone down the drain. At least the market is full of small, well priced games worth playing.@@Rine.4656
The irony is Larian is a AAA studio. They employ more people than many AAA studios
This has to be game of the year. Not just because it’s deserving but because the message needs to be sent to these AAA devs that they can’t get by doing less than the bare minimum anymore.
How exactly is Baldur's Gate 3 not AAA? Have you seen the game? And Larian have been huge ever since Divinity: Original Sin
@DaveGrean Larian are an independent studio with only a team of around 140 people. Studios like EA and Bethesda are not independent and have around 10 times the number of employees...
So, yeah... Larian are still a very small studio by comparison and, as they are independent, so too are their games. Hence: AA as opposed to AAA
@@thevoicewithin9845 If there is no noticeable difference in quality in the final product, then that distinction is meaningless.
@@DaveGrean But whether a company is independent or not, and the number of employees determines if they are AA or AAA. That's a fact.
Another fact is that companies with much higher budget and ten times the staff should be able to compete and outdo all smaller independent companies. But, clearly, most AAA devs can't compete. Why?
@@thevoicewithin9845 Just like with music, technology has simply progressed to a point where one can achieve a level of fidelity that would be considered 'professional' even without a huge budget. This doesn't change that it's useless to differentiate between AAA and indie if there is no visible difference.
At this point the only thing unique to AAA is their overreliance on in-game transactions, and general capitalism putting profit maximisation above quality of product, which is the only reason indie games can be considered 'better'. It's certainly not because a bigger studio would be less capable of making a good game in and of itself, obviously.
The funniest thing about this entire BG3 firestorm is that it was literally a dev trying to say that we shouldn't expect this kind of quality from them preemptively. Nobody was comparing anyone else to Larian studios when this dev posted his tweet. He started the firestorm that would eventually surround him. Then the bandwagon of other devs jumping in to add onto that only brought more attention to the original post. They dug their own hole, by putting it into the minds of the average consumer that this game was high quality, and the bulk of this argument is basically them playing victim and getting defensive against things that they weren't being targeted over until they brought light to themselves and we all started going... "hey wait a minute, that's a good point. why aren't you like this?"
Basically, had none of these other devs said a word and kept quiet, most people would just go on with the status quo. This dev is literally the catalyst for the fiasco he was trying to defend himself from before anyone pointed fingers at him.
What's even crazier is that he's a small dev; I don't think his original point was even made about AAA, so much as speaking about smaller studios not typically having the funding to create games of BG3s scope in the modern business climate.
As you said, it was all the other devs that hopped on the bandwagon that blew this up.
And what's most funny and sad about it, is that it was an indie dev
WHAAAAAAAT? Devs playing victim and blaming the customers? August 2015 called, Gamergate says hello.
@@ChainedFeiThat truly was the beggining of the end for this industry
That guy was actually talking about his fellow indie devs. But somehow AAA devs jumped on his posts and started making excuses why even they (who have only more resources than Larian) can't be expected to develop game with this level of quality. That was what sparked the entire firestorm.
Don't forget, nobody forces these studios to go public and become beholden to the business cycle that gets dictated by quarterly reporting.
There's a reason why Valve is still private.
Actually, yes. That does in fact happen.
Studios are funded by investors.
Studios sign contracts with those investors.
Studios are held to contracts they make.
Studios are held to standards in those contracts.
One of those standards is development scope.
When they reach the end of that scope, they release.
Some studios who are not externally funded have
budgets they cannot exceed. When they do, they release.
You should know this. This is very easy info to find.
Shame on you.
You just got on your soapbox and ranted about something completely different than what the OP was saying. Going public doesn't mean releasing a game to recoup investment costs or prevent the budget spiraling out of control as it descends into development hell. Going public means transforming the company from a private entity to a publicly traded company. That decision rests at the feet of the Board of Directors. Not investors. The OP's issue is related to the dramatic changes in focus for a public company, and how those changes have largely been negative for gamers resulting in unreasonable deadlines, unfinished products, aggressive/manipulative monetization, etc.
The OP's original statement was clarified by using Valve as an example. Valve has been consistent for decades about their desire to remain a private entity specifically so they do not have to answer to shareholder earnings expectations.
You should know this. This is very easy info to find.
Shame on you.
That is not an excuse. Investor relations are NOT an excuse. Look at Cyberpunk! CDPR stock was going up and up during development, shareholders were actually happy with the development phase. Game releases, it's shit, stock plummets.
So... it was the shareholders fault the game was shit?!? No, it was the devs. The devs alone!
@@pmp1337my guy, the devs themselves have said (and it’s also already been openly stated) that the heads of the studio advertised the game way out of time and even the original release date they gave out made the devs shutter cause the game was no where near release date.
Pretty sure the shareholders and the studio needed the hype and the game to sell and they needed it to launch when needed but the “vision” was so grand the devs could t keep up and yeah the game released broke and the devs knew it but they can’t stop the studio from saying “alright we don’t care”
@@WGasmss no, devs took 8 years to develop a game. 8 years. Still in 2020 they delayed the release and still the stock price went up with the news of the delay.
It took me over 100 hours to beat baldur's gate and i missed a complete section by accident. This game is stunning, the companions are all unique and interesting, the gameplay is so much fun! It's a throwback to what games used to be and it makes me sad that there is not more games as well put together out there anymore. Volition dying while well deserved was sad, i loved saints row. I hope this shift happens fast and we go back to getting good games regularly.
Lol a few times I was like 'oh, forgot to check this room' only to find there was an entire dungeon underneath it with two more small side quests XD
1 and 2 is available on console too if thats your fancy
My first run i missed the zenthriam, the nine fingers, the mushrooms in the underdark and so much more
@@thelastpagan4999 I've been fairly careful about this. Just poked my nose into guides just enough to know if I should continue checking out an area before leaving it. There is a lot more to this game then I ever expected.
what part did you miss? :)
It's unbelievable how much sheer entertainment BG3 has so far offered me. There is so much content and it's so well done. 50 hours in to the first gameplay and I can already see doing another even deeper gameplay.
I know people with 300+ hours into it and already are planning another 4 different runs.
@@Nempo13 40hrs still half way through act 2. I run everywhere, checked every corners and replay boss fights.
Dawg I'm in the lower city and I've permanently lost shadowheart and never even recruited Gale. I've got more late game to explore on a 2nd playthrough and I'm already excited
@@Nempo13 I’m 150+ hours in an I haven’t even been to the city yet. I’m loving it.
@@vuton7670Sorry, but if you are 40hrs and half way in Act 2, you have missed A LOT!
I was >80hrs in Act 1 alone... Turns out, I also still missed a fair bit. Few people have spent 90-100hrs in Act 1 completing everything there is (or that people know of thus far).
Also, what do you mean by replayed boss fights? Like, reloaded a save prior to the fight??
After playing 50 hours, i upgraded my version of the game. Larian impressed me so much i had to express my thanks. Haven't had this much fun in a game in years.
@lofl6968 I found 1 cosmetic bug so far in 6 hours in act 3. Their big patch recently had over 1000 bug fixes. These devs listen, it's a nice change.
At worst act 3 feels less complete than act 1 and 2, but its still GOOD.
I've been burned by devs so much that I don't usually do early access, but I decided to trust in Larian's track record, and boy, did it pay off.
Hold your horses mate. Bugs aside, the ending is just castrated, it is but a shell of what was promised. It spoiled my whole game experience.
@@LazyFatBearwait for the ending friend...
Standing ovation, man. I very much agree with you on this and as another comment says:
“AAA studios can’t be expected to be held to the same standards as smaller studios like Larian. They should be held to much MUCH higher standards.”
Act 1 alone was worth the cost of the game. That is how far ahead of the rest of the industry BG3 is. Also a shout-out to Tears of the Kingdom
The other game waaa DLC trying to raise the price of games.
Can we all agree that the dialogue, lore, plot and maturity are some of the best ever in videogames? I mean when a killer clown comes to kill you at the circus and the NpCs ACTUALLY respond to events that happened is refreshing and immersive. The amount of dialogue is insane in BG3.
Well I have read comments here that are negative about BG3. But they done sight anything so . . .
@@Miko_of_the_North Bear sex, pronouns, a character editor that can't make females, only androgynous body types.
For those of us who've had people we know DESTROYED by queer theory, we have zero tolerance for it's insanity.
@@Miko_of_the_North well, Act 3 was pretty buggy. And the dialogue isn't quite on the level of old Bioware games like Dragon Age Origins.
That said, I think Larian has one thing most AAA developers don't have. Leadership that gives a damn about something else other than making money. The game just feels like a lot of love and care went into it.
@@seanwilliams7655 yeah act 3 was disappointing performance wise. But the amount of geometry and NpCs in such a small area really makes it seem like a giant city.
@@ewjiml And still Act 3's performance is probably better than your average AAA game at launch... heck, even my outdated gaming laptop is somewhat keeping up. And yeah, Larian is working hard to fix problems, producing 2 big patches and multiple hotfixes within the first month, even adding stuff. I've seen big games who needed a lot of love who didn't get that kind of love for half a year.
God everyone needs to share this mans video. He has so accurately summed up how we all feel and what corporations need to do. More content creators need to band together and raise these points. We can win if we all stand together!
As someone who tried a game developing course, I can say that the Game Development Theory is based around the state of "flow", where you are either having so much fun, so much challenge or so much focus that you lose track of time. Then it also underlines the importance of player agency, as that is what defines the game medium.
Both of these core aspects seem to be blatantly ignored or resisted by so many games, to the point I rarely buy games anymore despite being a gamer. The ones I do buy are usually either indie, RPG Survival, or titles well received and recognized by other gamers.
Why? Because there's no trust anymore. Not in reviewers, not in journalists, not in the developers' descriptions of their own games, and not on the online stores that sell the games. They simply broke the single most important aspect of long-time trading: preserving and increasing trust.
Well said!
I bought Starfield on Series X based on what reviewers and Bethesda were saying about the game, enough said.
Then bought BG3 on PS5, was blown away and bought it again on PC because I felt that compared to what Starfield offered for the cost, BG3 deserves at least twice the money for what you get! I was so grateful to Larian and everyone involved for making BG3 that I was throwing money at them! Starfield however, Bethesda should be paying me to play that game!
Most RPG, Strategy, and Tactical players have abandoned AAA developers years ago. I think Larian is starting to reach AAA quality (what it should be), and I hope they keep performing as well as they have.
I think they have the potential to go above and beyond where they are now through recruiting many more like-minded staff... But, they HAVE to be exactly that: like-minded! If Larian maintain their passion and dedication/work ethic, they can easily become the best games developer of all time. Honestly, they are pretty much there for me already and I just have huge amounts of respect for their team and all of those involved in the making of BG3. What a masterpiece! And the voice acting is just on another level! Sony finally have some serious competition with regards to story writing, character development and acting within video games.
I honestly think the only two studios outwith Sony's umbrella who have really made me care about the story and characters were CD Projekt (Witcher 2 and 3) and Rockstar (Read Dead Redemption 1 & 2). Now, however, Larian have come in and not just stepped up to the plate, the ran way beyond it! The amount of time and effort that has gone into all of the different narrative paths based on your choices alone is just unbelievable! They really have done what most AAA devs thought was impossible and made them all look tremendously stupid in the process... Why are AAA devs making games with a tenth of the content, poor stories and shoddy scripts/acting? Why are they essentially making the same game over and over and just sticking a new name or number on it and getting away with it!?
Larian are tge prime example of what AAA devs should have been achieving for years now yet, only a very tiny number of them have even come close. That is rather embarrassing. All they care about is money and now it is so glaringly obvious. It's also glaringly obvious that Larian whole-heartedly care about their fans and consumers. They want people to love their games as much as they do. They want to make games people have been begging most of their lives for a developer to make! That's the standard of service and goals all AAA devs should be setting out to achieve from the get go!!
Well done Larian. You guys are just inspirational and make me wish I had chased a career in the gaming industry...
Every other developer, eyes or on you to see how you respond after this epic masterpiece.
Hey, even Hello Games are setting a whole standard of their own with NMS and deserve a mention! Like, wtf is going on in the gaming industry!?!?! Haha
Agreed, tbh I’m considering this their very first AAA quality game it is extremely well done from the simple things like graphics to the deep and impactful narratives where your decisions have impact. No one else is able to compete with this quality in the “aaa” industry as they have all plateaued decades ago
I really appreciated this monologue. I played BG2 so many times as a kid and now, as an adult with kids, a demanding job, etc., I don't have time for mediocre nonsense.
While I sympathize with his message. Heartless production of product is unavoidable when an organization becomes big enough it must make decisions by committee.
Passion, interesting quality, and unique flavor comes from smaller groups. Sterile safe ideas come from big groups.
Asking for passion, interesting quality, and unique flavor from a large, shareholder, organization (similar to Government) is probably unreasonable.
That part about education was truly hilarious.
I am a developer and most of my acquaintances are either developers, designers or artists, some of them in the game industry. I know how games are made and how the ambition of a game, the size of a studio and the importance of a publisher impact development, and my outrage was actually higher than that of the average unhappy player, even before Baldur's Gate 3 released.
Yes, Blizzard, Ubi Soft and others used to be known as companies that we could give money to without thinking. They also used to be known as companies that weren't publicly owned.
To declare that the cluelessness of uneducated customers is the reason for the current climate is simply ludicrous.
I am not developing games but business applications and websites. However, the same sort of bullshit that spoiled the game industry also spoiled mine.
The executives need to have a clear view of how good the performances are, so key performance indicators are listed, very synthetic value that directly translates how good perfromances are, like users per day or the percentage of resolved tickets.
This sounds very good at first on paper, but then managers find that it's easier to influence these indicators themselves than whatever they are designed to measure. Web pages are programmed to refresh regularly to multiply ad views as if users were several times more numerous, features are implemented to either clog the user experience so they spend more time on the service or to force them to come back several times to increase online presence and daily users and new policies are implemented so that tickets whose problems cannot be handled by tthe support are marked as solved, alongside reducing the amount of solving that the support is responsible for/allowed to handle so that a higher percentage of tickets can be marked as "solved" with a less experienced and less important workforce.
Just as they did in the software industry, they did in the game industry. The KPIs used in modern games are pretty standard across the board, making comparisons all the easier between games for executives and shareholders, and modern games from AAA studios are tailored to optimise these indicators rather than to be fun to play.
That's why all these games are now following the footsteps of EA games in being live services, and FarmVille before that.
- Making up some reason for the game to be online only so that presence can be monitored better
- Making the gameplay primarily centered around multiplayer interaction so that players spend more time online doing the exact same things again and again with or against each others rather than specific solo content that has to be designed and developed
- Making special online or multiplayer contents, distinctions, cosmetics that player have to either grind for or buy by the piece so that they either increase engagement metrics or funnel in cash.
Yes, these games are absolutely bland, but the only way to keep shareholders happy is to keep making games that are at least on par with other games of the same sort. Not only shareholders have an important decisionary role in these publishers, but it's basically illegal in the US to do something that might be considered to make the shareholders gain less returns.
In a sense, yes, players have to be educated in how games are made in order to understand why Baldur's Gate 3 cannot be the norm. Because there are very precise reasons why it's that way.
But contrary to what some of these people declared, it has nothing to do with Larian being a "large studio" or them having been funded to do the game, especially considering that both statements are false, and all to do with Larian being mostly privately owned and therefore not subjected to that whoring competition that modern studios are now perpetually involved in.
If Baldur's Gate 3 ever leads to a new norm, it will be either because large publishers learn to ditch these artificially inflated KPIs or because new private studios emerge and send the ones subservient to that cynical system down into the abyss.
Well written and some very fair points in there 😊
" it's basically illegal in the US to do something that might be considered to make the shareholders gain less returns."
What. Seriously and if so why!?
@@phantom-ri2tg Dodge v. Ford Motor Co. (February 7, 1919) From Wikipedia:
Dodge v. Ford Motor Company is a case in which the Michigan Supreme Court held that Henry Ford had to operate the Ford Motor Company in the interests of its shareholders, rather than in a manner for the benefit of his employees or customers. It is often taught as affirming the principle of "shareholder primacy" in corporate America.
@@RunicRasol Thanks for giving an example. I had not found any evidence when doing searchers.
@@RunicRasol Looking into it there is some debate over the reason that court case passed that is not mentioned in the wikipedia article.
I literally had never played a game in BG3's style but it quickly became my favorite game of all time, and I think that says a lot about the overall quality of the game.
It seems to have dnd mechanics, and since I learned to like playing dnd I'd love to play it. All I have is Xbox though.
I’ve seen a lot of people saying this about BG3. It’s HARD to make a massively accessible turn based combat game and yet they managed it.
Same and here I am enjoying it
I find myself becoming drawn to games with an in depth complex story. Before it was the gameplay, it's still important, but this is more of an interactive movie. Your choices literally have consequences. some better some worse. You can choose not to save someone, but they may have been able to help you later on. maybe that's why you save them. maybe you don't because your character is evil or the person is an irredeemable criminal. It's always been about the decision making being meaningful. It's nice that it's not just an illusion. you're not locked out of the full story, but things become easier or harder depending on your decisions in the past. That is literally life. This game allows for so much creativity.
100% same here
I usually don’t play games like BG3 but I really enjoy it. I already played a good 30 hours of it and can’t wait to play more. A big plus for me is that it isn’t scary. Nothing creeps up on me to kill me.
Y'all likely never bought a game in a box from a game store, but when we did it that way. the games were whole, got maps a manual.
I mean, except for Knights of the Old Republic 2, which had massive chunks of the game cut, and then years later people were able to data mine the files
But it had zero to do with the box or the store you bought it from. That was before the gaming industry realized their customer base was comprised mostly of dumbfucks that would buy a smelly turd if there was enough marketing hype for it.
I'm in my late 50's I remember those days and, damn, I miss those manuals.
I'm in my early 50s and I do remember browsing the games section of the store to find a new game to try out. I still own a few of them, including Diablo II, LOTRO, and WoW, among others. I miss things like game manuals and physical maps.
The good times.
I got whole shelves of physical disks of various games, old or more recent, real or pirated and copied onto a physical disk.
Feels amazing to just have these physically forever without the risk of some corpo pulling the plug on their always online game once it stops being profitable in the moment.
Larian is producing some of the best games on the market. Absolute beauties. I love them and BG3 is a masterpiece
I did a bit of googling, and I just realized Baldurs Gate 3 is longer than the Mass Effect series and possibly has more meaningful content. I think it might be the greatest RPG of all time, possibly.
@@Mortablunt phew nice try there shill
This one of the best speeches on the state of the games development I have heard so far, very well written and delivered, and all very true, Well done.
Loved every second of this. It really does feel like a lot of AAA companies are constantly gaslighting consumers lol
ALL HAIL THE SAVIOUR!!!!
ALL HAIL THE BALDURS G8!!!
They are.
There's no it feels like.
They straight are gaslighting us.
When the bliz higher ups actually made fun of their own fanbase? Ya, that's exactly what it looked like. N Im not even a consumer of videogames anymore. Might get back into it if the trend becomes the norm.
Oh déjà vu. So glad Larian has given people a taste of what the basic standards of games were.
It's both scary and sad to know that there are many kids thess days who don't even know what it was like to have a good quality game that wasn't chock full of predatory FOMO microtransactions and "engagement" mechanics.
Look at how many shills show up in this comment section already and trying to gaslight already. They are panicking.
Games like this one always have been outliers. People just picture the absolute best of out of 3 decades of gaming when they think about the past. I started playing games on a commodore 64, and the amount of broken, unfun games has been as high if not higher "back in the day". The amount of budget games and movie tie ins on eveythinh from c64 over snes to ps2 is staggering.
@@Spectacular_Insanityas a pretty old gamer, i can attest you that full price games with unfixeable bugs that where (not kidding) 30 minutes of playtime on nes, snes and ps1, wherent great either.
Most of these AAA studios are far behind it, but let's not devalue Larian's work by saying they just met the basic standard. They have far exceeded it.
You nailed pretty much every point.
BG3 is one of the best games I’ve ever played in every aspect of the game. My son has spent countless hours on ToTK. These games are way above most other games released in the past few years.
As a dev I can definitely tell you that when your passion is also your job, eventually the job aspect overcome the passion side. It takes a long time and it is our own issues to fix and one thing I teach and warn newcomers in the industry. Make sure to find the fun in the challenges and be proud of the feature, polish it as you go, take ownership, push it further make it your own... unfortunately if you are 1 of 9000 devs in a game there's little to no flexibility toward personal passion or ideas. If you take agency to go further you're gonna be roguing from the plan even if it comes from the right places and would benefit the product overall. You will most likely get in trouble ...
The management is to blame, the investors are to blame, the gaming industry is now the highest entertainment market so indeed it's now run corporately and corporation kills passion. Buy indies instead of AAA you'll find sooo many gems in there for like 10-20$ and you'll feel the difference right away, The devs were passionnate, it reflects on the product.
That's the reason I quit the games industry, can't help to lose passion when all sorts of shitty anti fun anti player decisions are forced onto you. Also other IT industries pay significantly better, leaving that toxic cesspool of an industry was the easiest decision of my life. Keeping games development as a hobby is definitely the way to go for me.
I left game dev and became a industry graphics dev instead, that paid better and less stress. I'm a write game after work, it something I can completely put my passion into.
@@KanpachiGaming It's a really sad reality. When i first started 12 years ago there was a saying that the career expectency was 5 years before moving out. It changed over the years as the toxic overtime kinda got removed-ishhh ... but yeah really sad that you changed but it's mostly important to respect ourselves and our own goals and happiness.
I worked in the industry for a total of 20 years, my last stint being 12, and my last 2 years with a AAA studio that rhymes with "gizzard."
A little inside info: their latest title features a disturbing amount of content, assets, and gameplay features that were pulled from the previous title in the franchise's alpha.
I did what I could, along with a lot of other fantastic developers, to champion for more complex gameplay, more base game content, and more meaningful player choices, but time and again, the Studio reps shut us out/down, telling us it was more important to hook new customers, not monetized enough, and too complex to be worth the cost to investors.
Eventually, they wore me down and I quit to go to indie development. Long story short, that failed and I quit the industry altogether.
Experience/education enough?
Do you mind me asking you about how your attempt to go indie failed?
@@MastaGambit That is a very long story. At first, I tried working with a number of indie studios as a texture artist, level/environment designer, and 3d asset artist, the things I enjoyed doing the most.
Each project was unsuccessful for a multitude of reasons, from project leaders not really knowing how to lead a team, to feature creep making the game just near impossible to ever finish, to people abandoning the project... eventually, I just got tired of the bull and set out to make my own game on my own...
It was going to be a turn-based RPG set in Hell, called Nine Hells, where you play as a woman with no memory of her past had to try to figure out what happened to her and her world. The big twist at the end was going to be that YOU were responsible for the end of your world by opening a rift to hell, and the resulting cataclysmic event had taken your memories and powers... Yeah, it was edgy...
Well, fast forward years of work and thousands of dollars later, I was barely making progress, had started working 2 jobs to support my family, my depression and PTSD was beating me down, and I was just starting to lose my passion for game development in general.
I scrapped my project when my daughter started to show interest in game development, so that we could do a project together, but it had taken about a year to get a first Alpha together for Prototype Paladin, a side-scrolling Megaman style game, but with a somewhat open world and a Souls-like twist. It was going well, but my daughter lost interest and I was just so over working on computers day and night... then I had multiple organ failures that hospitalized me for almost 6 months and left my practically bed-ridden for 2 years. My passion for everything was gone, my marriage was suffering, I felt so guilty and depression was destroying me... BUT, I started making it a point to eat healthier, get out and walk daily, and eventually my health got better, which helped my mental state. I lost almost 200 pounds in the last 2 years. I started doing things from my youth that I had stopped, including recreational/competitive shooting, hiking, camping, fishing, miniature painting, sculpting, playing D&D and writing D&D related content, and now my family does a lot of these things with me, as they all took to it and love it as much as I do. We play regular games of D&D with some family friends and I am writing a book that I started writing in high school, that was destroyed by my father's religious fanatic wife when I was in the Army, but am thinking of writing it as a TTRPG game instead of a D&D campaign setting. I have long since gotten help with my depression and my life is pretty mundane, opposed to the constant go-go-go life I was living while in game development... but I am happy with my simple life.
This is the short version. TBH, I often tell people that my life may not be great and may not have always been great, but it was never boring. Been through a lot of things, starting at a very young age, and I've been wealthy, homeless, and am glad to have experienced more out of life than most people. Maybe I will write my memoirs some day.
Not a dev, but I work in an industry that is heavily involved with investors, and have attended meetings where it was emphasized that the investors - not our customers - are the center of our focus as a business.
That, to me, is lunacy. Customers are the only reason a company remains in operation. Customers are what pays the bills! Investors are just leeches who take far more than they’ve put in.
Our entire corporate capitalist structure is backward, and the moment any game studio or publisher decided that games were a profit-making commodity rather than a passion to provide wonderful experiences is the moment they were completely lost.
@@reyvynnightveil1706 I can feel the pain from trying to do something but loosing all interest, I can only wish you good luck and courage !
I hope everything will improve in your life !
@@reyvynnightveil1706Fuck yeah man. You're amazing and did what your heart body and mind truly needed and you have come such a long way. Good job man, and thank you for sharing your story.
You articulated this extremely well. This is also why indie games are taking so much of the market away from them. Their greed is blinding them from those facts you've pointed out. And will keep them from listening to us.
BG3 made me realize my money should be spent where it is earned. All other game devs got some work to do... they haven't earned my money in a long time.
My friends thought it was weird that I wouldnt get hyped for some games. Years later, now they understand more and more. I trust maybe 3 developers and a wonderful indie community. Really gave me time to dive into and cull the backlog without really missing out on much. It warms my heart to see this kind of shit get more and more attention. I'd love it to go back to a feature complete norm. Till then, i got my old consoles and a hell of a library to go through.
It isn't like indie developers are some bastion of superiority. A lot of them follow the same patterns that AAA companies do because they see it as a way to make a living. A lot of them take a shot at making a game, half-arse it, and give up halfway through.
Most games now, indie or not, are garbage. Good games are rare.
Yep. I trust Valve, and now, Larian. I think everyone else has burned me at some point.
Kojima, FromSoft, Larian, Capcom Remakes, and some indies. That's ALL I trust.
@@mikevismyelement i understand larian but Valve , really ?
@@Nonpaindoes valve even make games anymore? Lol
I couldn't have said it better myself! I noticed this trend starting to happen back in 2005, and my spending habits immediately began to reflect it. I began to mostly ignore AAA titles and buy from companies like egosoft. In the last five to ten years, it's really gone off the deep end and I won't touch a AAA title no matter who makes it or if it's a sequel to something I was really excited about. If it's not from a small company or an indie developer, I don't want it. Hell, I've bought more commodore 64 games in the last few years than I have Triple-A garbage.
Exactly. I think the last triple A game I bought was Skyrim? Back when it was first released over a decade ago.
I very rarely read, hear, or watch an opinion piece that i agree with every point the writer makes to the point of outward vocal agreement. This was that rare video! Well freakin done! I think the main thing is game companies want to treat us as dumb kids. We all want the feeling we felt when we were kids booting up our favorite game, not to be taken advantage of like we are kids.
Glad you dug it!
SPOT ON! 😎👍
Larian needs to watch this. I was so hyped for Halo Infinite and when it came out it was unfinished and micro transactions out the butt. Like u said, $60 game for BG3, but the content alone far exceeds expectations and price. Other companies need to follow suit
I was served a poorly cooked meal once and took issue with it. The Restaurant claimed I was wrong for condemning fish overcooked to the size of a cracker. To avoid creating a scene, I paid but told them, enjoy it-you're never getting any more from me. They went out of business. We need to boycott mediocrity from game companies or any company or it will never stop.
When I played bg3 I felt like I robbed larian for payin 70 dollars for an 1000 hours game
that's how i felt when i bought Hollow Knight on sale. Had to buy it a second time (switch and PC).
Great games are like this.
And that's just on my second playthrough with an entirely new level of things I missed the first time. Wait until the multiplayer crowd gets organized and DM Mode comes online, for free. I hope Larian Dark Urges them all down or knocks them away from our expectations like a squirrel who micro bitches at you to pay them more money.
i feel like becoming dark urge in larian HQ for how fucked mechanics and act 3 are. typical: make the biginning great to get good reviews, then f our customers.
just buy it twice :) or upgrade to deluxe edition.
@@thecursed01 nah, it's just Act 1 was done first (logical) and so they had more time to take care of bugs. And it's also by far the most played part in the beta by players.
You have been so spot on about this issue. They keep trying to change the argument but don't let them. It is about value. I don't want to pay for a game over and over again and be put on a hamster wheel to make people money. I want to have worthwhile experiences. If the focus is on the money then the game will not be as good as it could be if they focused on the game play. The play is the thing. Thank you for stating this so clearly. Maybe someone will hear you.
Indeed. Agree with everything said. Thanks for sharing how we are all feeling. Nice to hear people voicing it!
dude. You just earned yourself a sub. I agree whole heartedly. We just want good games that aren't trying to milk us of all the money we got when lifes hard enough to afford as is. THIS is what makes bg3 special and the standard games should be held to
Perfect analogy. I work in a hotel, I wish we could treat people like game devs do. “Sorry we didn’t clean the room but you can still pay full price for it.””You can’t expect us to wash the blankets, who do you think we are, the Ritz?”
All I can say is well spoken. A perfectly measured and prosed response to voice the feelings and frustrations of the wider gaming community. I hope to see a brighter future for this industry which has had such an impact on my life.
Im usually the type to skip dialogue and experience the actual gameplay bits of my games more, but BG3 is so well intertwined with DnD lore, mechanics, and has so many great dialogue options that your choices of speech ACTUALLY matter and dont just trail off to the same conclusion. Refreshing to see that. And the gameplay of adventuring, looting, fighting, is just immaculate and addicting. I hadnt even realised that my save file had hit 10hrs of total playtime on my first day playing it and i havent even SCRATCHED the surface of act 1!
This, this 1000X this. I HATE dialog, it's always so pointless! just a way to pad out time and in a lot of games it's not even skippable. BG3 has made me actually CARE about the dialog and what the characters are going to say. I get a little blip of happiness everytime I come back to camp to see a floating speech bubble above someone's head. The characters are compelling, even the ones I don't have a fondness for.
Larian made sure all dialog was skippable, and then convinced me I didn't need to use that button.
I've seen that too. I usually read much faster than the lines can be read and I'm used to walls of texts from older RPGs. But I started to notice that the delivery is amazing and there's a lot of physicality in even seemingly simple scenes with all the mocap. Hell, sometimes I'm just there for MCs goofy facial expressions.
@@trapfethen Dialogues in RPG it's not always pointless. Many games incorporate branching dialog options that allow players to make choices that impact the game's outcome.Dialog can help create a rich and immersive game world by providing insights into its history, culture, and lore. It adds depth and realism to the environment, making the game engaging.
@@teoadventures2564 I'm not going to get into a debate over this. Most digital RPGs have large amounts of pointless dialogue. It's particularly frustrating when dialogue is primarily communicated through text. I didn't download a book, I downloaded a game. There are some RPGs that use dialogue to primarily advance the narrative, meaningfully develop characters, and expand on the world, but it isn't many. This is tied to the fact that many newer RPGs throw in pointless time wasting quests, which pretty much makes any dialogue related to such quests pointless by definition. BG3 has very little of either. No pointless quests (or at least I can just run past anything I perceive as pointless), character dialogue is always engaging and moving the narrative along some meaningful axis.
@@trapfethen That's just *your* *opinion* , RPGs cater to a diverse audience with varying preferences. Some players are more focused on the story, characters, and world-building aspects of the game, while others prioritize action and gameplay, like you. While there are few games that fits your criteria, it's not wise to group all of them, like my first statement, dialogue in RPG it's not always pointless.
You hit it on the head! I am so hesitant to buy new games these days. I was SCARED to buy Baldur's Gate 3. Glad I did, but I shouldnt have to worry about wasting money on a game i want to just play to decompress and have fun.
We just want quality for our money and quality doesnt always mean great grahpics.
Larian took the time to listen to its audience. They customed design this game for a particular fan base. That buzz attracted a larger audience. Now the gain more fans but going forward they will most likely keep catering to their core audiences. They will keep playing to the market that will build the biggest follwing...within reason.
Wouldn't be able to agree more. I'm afraid that we are all part of the problem though. Taking me as an example - I play games for the last 30 odd years - I still remember the Lost Vikings from Blizzard & I bought Diablo 4 as I was still (despite all the crap happening around them for the last few years) under the spell of old Blizzard studio. My wake up call came with Baldurs Gate 3 - honestly, same as you mentioned in the video. I played the game and thought to myself - "freaking impossible". I played a complete product from A - Z, a product with the world of mechanics and amazing story without being asked for my credit card even once during the gameplay. There was no major bugs, no major fixes released with short notice, no gamebreaking issues that could stop me from playing or asking to replay the whole game again. It. Was. Blast. I forgot this feeling - literally forgot how it is to play a complete game.
Hence, I will never ever buy a single product from Blizzard again. This goes for Activision, Ubisoft and many others. It's sad though that we will most likely not get a similar quality until people realize the same thing and will let some of these big AAA whales die.
I really don't understand how anyone could expect Diablo IV to be anything more than a pile of crap. Weren't all the red flags enough? Diablo III was godawful, the company got sued for sexually harassing their employees, WoW has been dogshit ever since Mists of Pandaria, then the whole fiasco with Diablo Immortal, then the bailout on OW2 PvE mode. I mean, come on brother...
Just channel your inner red shirt guy and stop buying crap from developers that treat you like garbage. There are PLENTY of excellent games out there, BG3 just being the latest and most prominent example. But if you're willing to dig a bit deeper, you'll find dozens of gems like The Bard's Tale 4, for example.
I have been playing Blizzard games since Starcraft 1. Played World of Warcraft for years, and I Love Starcraft 2, both the campaigns and the coop. Seeing them remove the TCP/IP from D2R in the last minute over their paranoia gave me a bummer, but seeing Diablo Immortal plus the chaos happening in Blizzard right now I do not trust them at all. I will wait a month or so if I am interested in any of their games. Not until Bobby Kotick is removed at least.
you're one of the small or large people who dont buy aaa games but more people still buy them i.e children/teenagers people who are young 20s buy it
@@JakandDexsters In my part of the world? Most people at that age wanting to play AAA assuming it is not F2P will just pirate. If no crack is available because a certain Austrian company delayed it, they will wait it out and play something else in the meantime.
@@rps215 i just pirate as a general rule by now. Then after an hour or two, if its a good game, i'll go and buy it on steam. Unless its a paradox interactive game, in which case i just pirate it again and again for every DLC that comes out. idc how good the game is, im not paying 300 for it.
God damn this is proper journalism around gaming. A big thank you my man for saying what all hardcore true gamers who see through this facades feel.
Hopefully we can educate the masses and casuals to get the industry to be better. ❤💪 many, many thanks homie!
This isn’t journalism. It’s an opinion piece, but it’s a damn good opinion piece.
We'd get more games like Balders Gate 3 if the developers working on that game were also the owners. The issues with the game industry come down to the workers not owning the businesses they work at.
This is the issue with many industries. More workers need to own where they work!
Never have I more agreed with someone's take on this subject. Subbed and thank you for understanding the core gaming community 🙏
All of it is true at the same time.
1) gamers support bad practices
2) gamers demand bad practices to stop
3) game studios have become complacent.
Devs are frustrated by AAA studios just as much as gamers are. I’m a gamer and game dev. I want to work on amazing games.
AAA studios are doing the equivalent of a restaurant bringing your plate to you without its sides, and without having cooked the food. Then telling you that the sides cost extra and will come as an expansion to the meal later, and if you want condiments that'll be a dollar per squirt or spoonful. Oh, and we'll probably get around to cooking your food after the potatoes get released... if you're still here and willing to pay to sit in your seat longer. If not, thank you for coming and I'm just so so so very sorry that you didn't get the experience on your plate that the menu made you think you'd get. We understand your concerns and will take them all into consideration for tomorrow night's meal.
I love going to small concerts of smaller bands. But there is a point when a band moves from going on stage out of passion to going on stage because they must to pay their bills. And it's always sad to see such a band lose their "glow"...
In a way it seems that the same can be said for game studios.
I played Diablo IV for about 150 hours. I tried really hard to like it, but after beating the campaign (which I really did like), I enjoyed very few of those hours. I actually parked it to replay Skyrim lol. Until Baldurs gate 3 came out.
I’m 30-ish hour into Baldurs gate and I’m absolutely floored by how good it is. How fun it is to play. How memorable the experience has been so far. I can’t foresee wanting to put it away.
You’ve spoke what’s on all of our minds very eloquently
I bought BG3 a few days ago and I must say, I am having a ball exploring dialogue, gameplay, romance choices and the world of Baldur's Gate. Haven't had this much fun in such a long time as I've been depressed about where AAA gaming industry is heading and thought about giving up gaming.
I will think carefully about who I buy games from from now on. I want to support any developer/publisher that makes games for fun and listens to their fans.
I think what we're seeing in gaming is the same thing that happened with movies. Where the critics start telling people what they're supposed to like and the people largely ignoring them.
“now all theyre going to be left with is rocks” goes hard af
Brandon doesn't open up with a strawman statement. He opens up with a false statement, a lie. If you apply rules of logic if A is false, anything you say - B - might or might not be true. Devs like him turned games, which were passion projects, into products, and then to maximize profits they turned those products into minimum viable products.
as someone who mainly gamed 2001 - 2015 I can confirm, back in that period there were a ton of massive quality games that for some reason were just made with no issues
Morowind, Oblivion, Dragon Age, tons of RTs games, Half Life 1,2 , Crysis , Kotor 1,2 Mass Effects, it was a golden age...
I been gaming since 94 and online since 98. Also DIY PC building the same. You hit the nail on the head. Most of the gaming companies succumbed to greed from investors then were now trapped into answering to them. Games and gaming went downhill from there.
Somewhat ironically I'd say it was that 'golden age' that was the beginning of the end. Oblivion was incredibly watered down in complexity to Morrowind. Skyrim immensiely more so.
Dragon Age 1 had some awesome mechanics for building your characters (especially for magic users) and a non-linear plot progression, then Dragon Age 2 turned into a very simple button masher for the most part.
Mass Effect 1 may have had some pretty bad gunplay, but the rest of it was great, especially how it rarely seemed that any choice was intrinsically a bad one.
Mass Effect 2 copied it's gameplay from the rising cover shooter trend, greatly watered down the dialogues, level up system and choices to steamline it for the shooter crowd.
Although I will agree that the games from back then at least felt complete and had gone through a decent amount of QA before release. Some more than others mind you, but that may have been due to patches not being quite normalised or free yet on consoles.
@@ShaimingLong I’ve been desperate for a Morrowind remake for years. It’s the first game I truly fell in love with and it made me amazed at what is possible in video games. I still have dreams about the loading screens. 😅
the 90's was even more so. Games like command and conquer shot a full on b-movie for the sake of a niche pc game in '95 (and then did it again, and again and again for all the sequels, they even got actual b list celebrities to play parts for them in later titles)
bg3 is kind of the modern equivalent of that with the insane volume of voice acting and original music scores put into it.
Ok. I'm sorry I've been gaming since the 90s, and this is just false. I get the sentiment. But you are showing pure nostalgia.
I don't think I recall a single game that has ever released with no bugs. And this goes back all the way to the original NES. Hell, ocarina of time has upwards of 5 different versions to patch out glitches and bugs, and it still remains one of the greatest titles of that decade.
As for Morrowind and Oblivion, I can agree they were both amazing games, but far, FAR from no issues. We have whole meme genres about how glitchy Oblivion NPCs were. The same with Half Life. You might want to check out Full Life Consequences.
Boulders gate 3 respected our time and money and we liked that. What a crazy unfathomable concept.
I blame both. You are spot on about the "Corporate narrative" and I am certain that there are many great Devs out there, but I am deep inside the software development industry and I can unequivocally tell you that there are far too many lazy developers out there who are all to happy to code new bugs and ignore old ones. This is not a "Single source" problem, there are lots of things that need to improve.
the single source problem is capitalism. All of the other issues relate back to games being made purely as means of profit rather then forms of art
@@joefloyd5766Well when you MUST participate in a fiat market system in order to feed yourself... You have to be in a position of grand freedom to create art, for art's sake and turn it into a video game available for millions of potential buyers.
@@joefloyd5766lmao so it's capitalism's fault that people are greedy? And by that logic, according to you, there are no greedy people in socialistic society?
@@benedictjajo to be fair, capitalism expects and encourages greed. It's a feature, not a bug.
@@benedictjajocapitalism is just communism but with McDonald’s. Two birds of the same beast.
More people NEED to see this video. You nailed it brother...preach that shit loud and proud 👏
AAA studios don't want to be held to the same standard because they know they can't match it. After decades of games turning from "the nerdy side thing" to "the mainstream entertainment," AAA studios also went from being large and successful because they had the most passion and talent to being large and successful because they had the best marketing and stuck to "old reliable."
AAA studios make crappy games because they don't make games, they make money.
And they're not interested in games, they're interested in money.
So there's no passion behind their games, there's just passion behind "how do we get the most money for the least effort."
Which is why they hemorrhage creative employees, because the creative employees aren't interested in being told "No no, that's not what made Call of Duty popular, look we've got a template just use it."
You nailed it right on the money. all the way around the game is great and BG 3 continues to release updates but they don't put them out as micro transactions and make us pay for it. I hope Larian Studios gets GOTY.
This encapsulates the problem with the gaming industry at a pretty fundamental level. Well said!
Wish more people would see stuff like this so they could understand how it is that we're where we're at right now. The more people who know/understand this, the more difficult it will be for companies to pull the wool over our (collective) eyes. This video adds a great deal of value (heh, see what I did there) to this conversation. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Never before have I watched a 20+ minute video and agreed with every single word.
Well put, sir. You're absolutely spot on with every point.
I really appreciate you bringing up and pushing back on the "dollars per hour played" approach to determining value in a game. It's such an awful metric and is, I believe, primarily but not exclusively the catalyst to the sorry state of game releases in this generation
The 1st single(ish) player game I've played in roughly 20 years. Enjoying my Story mode, solo (no companions, other than progressing some of their story lines) play through more than, possibly, any game I've ever played. BG3 is a special game.
Solo play feels like it's dying out indeed.
Multiplay has become the magic wand to enhance shelf life, but also taken over focus from making a really good game
@@sneezyfido It feels like that because there's more money into multiplayer games (or single player games for mobile phones that basically live off micro-transactions). So there's little incentive to develop single player gems like Disco Elysium, for example.
I normally don't buy games because they're too expensive for me, a poor person, but I ended up having someone get it for me and this is the happiest I've been in years! I love this game. Its *fun*
Great conversation! Let's keep up the pressure and fight for VALUE!
i've been gaming since the late 70's-early 80's (yes im an old gamer :) ). I remember paying one price for a finished game that I put hours upon hours into. till the next game came out and repeated that process. You are right, these days, its almost expected to keep throwing money into a game just to play it. from micro-transactions to battle passes, paying for more seasons, and so on. when all we want is to pay one price for a finished game to put hours upon hours into. and you are right, thats why Elden ring, and now BG3 is getting so much love from the gamers. one price for a great game. I have no issue at all with DLC. if its done honestly, meaning they work on the DLC after they release the main game, not cut content just to sell that content as DLC later. I 100% agree with you on this video. Great job.
Dude do you remember when back in the day we bought Warcraft 3 it comes with a guide book of pictures of different units and hero stories. Oh man that was so neat
AC6 and BG3 is like a throw back to better times. This video is spot on.
In my experience, this happens often because of incompetent and corrupted leadership in the game studios. It could be investors who know jack about game design but want to mess up with the process and decision making in the studio, or they withdraw; or some leader who has no professional capacity whatsoever in this role, but he/she is a friend of a very important shareholder, thus actually contributes no merits in the development yet causes lots of troubles and no one can criticize him/her in the team; or some company boss who does not understand game development and meets some con-man and puts him/her in a very high position in the team which usually has high salary and etc... And one thing about incompetent leaders, they will always blame others and they will hate real talent people because the latter make them look bad.
Really excellent video! I think Kenshi is another good example of a game with flaws, but that delivers an incredible experience and massive value and hence its popularity. Solasta is an example of a game like BG3 (arguably better in a couple of ways) where paid for DLC was done well. Essentially they said “we are able to make an SRD D&D game with these limitations. If it does well enough, we can expand upon it”. Upfront, and still delivering a complete experience while also leaving the door open for enrichment.
amen. I logged in and turned off my ad blocker to let this video play in it's entirety and threw you a subscribe. You earned it.
It's nice to have someone speaking with the voice of a true gamer. Thanks man. It was kind of rough watching videos at the earliest onset of this controversy, and not seeing anyone talking about the true culprit. Value is all anyone ever asks for, and it's a standard we haven't been meeting for a long, long time at this point.
This is a fantastic video essay. And honestly, nailed it on the head. The pursuit of profit over the pursuit of happiness is definitely at the core of the issue. I agree wholeheartedly that the value of games has gone down significantly through the years, especially by the big AAA developers. They know what they are doing. It's all about profits.
I'm going to cal bs on the the "We the consumer are not blaming the developper at their desks", it's usually the workforce of the studios that get death threats from the public... Not the CEO or the company as an entity.
Let's hope elden ring, ff16 and balder's gate 3 become the heroes we need not the heroes we deserve and help force the industry to correct itself
I think this issue is multifaceted, but the easiest solution to all of this is to vote with your wallet. It does not matter how much shady stuff companies try to push if consumers would just stop buying in! Sadly consumers are generally not smart enough to act in their own interest unless they are presented with such a terrible proposition that they can't overlook it.
education and addiction is the biggest problem i've seen in today's gaming sphere people easily succumb to things that are bad in order to get that short rush of dopamine.
but not realizing that they could have that dopamine last for days even a whole month if they would reject the scummy stuff being sold to them etc. and demanding that they get what they paid into the game and get everything that was promised right from the beginning none of this expansion crap, paid dlc, loot crates/box, gambling nonsense.
Asking for us to pay for Micro transactions to finish your game is the game equivalent of restaurants not paying the servers enough and expecting the customer to tip to make up the difference.
That's why, honestly, I almost gave up on AAA games in recent years. Baldur's Gate 3, despite being on the thin line in terms of its size, is still technically made by an independent company - in other words, indie. Perhaps the biggest indie in gaming history, but still indie nonetheless, in principle.
It's noticeable in games when you see a company that made the game they wanted to make, and when they made the game to reach the largest number of buyers and maximize profits.
On the line in size??? My first unfinished play through at 65 hours begs to fiffer
@@therustybucket221 Oh, I meant as in "It's on the thin line of being considered as a AAA game due to the size of the company and the game itself, although if you think about it carefully, it remains independent, even though it has made a game that competes with other AAA games."
It wasn't a question about how big the game is, because it is indeed effing huge. If anything, it's pointing out this fact.
i wouldnt really call them indie, but i get where youre coming from. Its one of the few companies that are still privately owned instead of publicly traded. Used to be that all game devs were like that, but they've all sold out now and have to bow to the whims of people who have no idea what makes a good game.
@@ThinkBeyondOrdinary AAA has literally nothing to do with the size of a company or game. AAA is majority determined by the marketing budget. most "AAA" games come from non indie devs cuz they have a publisher to provide a big budget to market, but there's indie studios that still make AAA games, like Fromsoft and Larian. and Indie doesnt have anything to do with size of a company or game, its if they are self published or not.
@@declancampbell1277they are independent. No publisher and self funded. Indie is short for independent. They are indie.
I'm so grateful for BG3 coming out as it did. I looked forward to Starfield for years expecting a genre defining RPG, BG3 came out of nowhere and gave me that experience instead. I hate that this game will only become what it was supposed to be after mods come out in the next couple of months/years. welp.
This sounds more like a change in the industry is required than a change in gamers expectations
My wife and I were so excited for Diablo 4. We bought the special pre order edition. Still to this day every time we try to play couch co op we can't get 5min in before it crashes or kicks us. It made us not even want to try to play anymore. It's sad.
I enjoyed D2, even D2R, plus Warcraft 3, and Starcraft 1 and 2. However, after the shitstorm in Blizzard, and then looking at Diablo Immortal, I do not trust them anymore and I'd wait only after a month or so before purchase. It is well founded apparently.
It amazes me how you expected ANYTHING else from Blizzard/Activision. You would have been better off throwing money in the trash. Less headaches and you wouldn't have supported a corrupt, broken company.
This has been a weird month. Thanks to Larian and From Software, I bought two new release games in a single month. I rarely buy anything younger than a decade anymore, because those old games are actually complete. I just love how angry the industry is getting over a good video game.
It's quite sad when you have to read between the lines from the devs that spoke out, in that they want to be able to do as Larian did, but the publishers and investors won't let them.
But it only gets worse when the publishers speak out and claim they just can't financially take on the risk of making a game like BG3, all while knowing they do have the money and the quality dev teams to do even better than BG3, but short term gains override a long term investment.
I started Baulders on Friday and I must say what a breath of fresh air its been - beyond incredible, beyond not buggy, beyond what i paid for, just not seeing all the BS micro transaction "additions" trying to entice more money out of me.
Ed: and omg, playing on Steam Deck, not having wifi checks or broken ass EA/Ubisoft/etc sub apps breaking my games??? 🙄
Great video. 100%.
While Baldur's Gate 3 still feels very much unfinished. Act III is very much broken if you don't go down a very clean path, I keep hearing the ending feels empty and has many parts cut out of it.
But I also recognize that yes, there is passion and love behind the development and there's nothing inherently wrong with the game. If Larion patches the game and fixes it, Baldur's Gate 3 will be one of the greatest games of all time. But it's just not there right now and I only see myself dropping it down more and more with how I rate it.
It is really sad that game studios became publicly traded. Seems like it has ruined every gaming studio that has gone down that road.
It is easier to boycott them.
AAA companies complaining about the quality of games like BG3 or Elden Ring is like hearing McDonald's complain that people think their food is cheap garbage. They sold their souls for a quarterly bump and ponder why their reputation fits their choices.
Thank for your analysis about the present discourse around this awesome game! It's fascinating how all the woes of video gaming development are a perfect microcosm to understand late stage capitalism but at a more human and relatable level.
By the way I have played Boulders Gate 3 for 140hrs. I have only had 1 crash and its because I was doing some silly bomb stuff.
Same xD went nuts with those void bombs that draw in a bunch of baddies. Still, after the patch I can do it with no problems.
Same😂 for a launch state of such an immense game, it was pretty stable. Usually i dont touch rpgs in their first year after release.
I have experienced more than one bug while playing BGIII ... most of the bugs I encountered are easily solved with a quick save and restart though. Act III really really needs some extra work as well. BGIII is my favorite game of the year, hell maybe the decade regardless though. The game is fun to play, choices actually matter, there is no money milking and it helps that I am a huge RPG-geek :P
man i felt that
no matter how much enthusiasm and passion for gaming too frequently i end up questioning myself why i love gaming and keep coming back
games like baldur's gate are the reason and it is a wakeup call thank you for talking about this man and i hope one day we will see the sense of wonder of old in video games
but what's terrible is that the new generation didn't grow in the times where games actually had quality so the more time passes the less people are willing to reconsider willingly without being forced by financial issues
if the inflation and financial troubles of the present forces these assholes to start offering quality again, i guess there is some positive to the struggle, but it is a shame that we'd need this to require good standards of quality