χαῖρε, My professor taught me Koine Greek with a Demotic pronunciation. As a result, I had a much easier time understanding Ioanna than you. His battle cry was "Erasmus is dead! He's dead, I say!" However, when I began studying Homer, I learned a reconstructed Attic pronunciation. Then later I learned Buth's Koine reconstructed pronunciation. Recently I encountered a "Lucian pronunciation" which aims for a more 1st century AD/BC pronunciation. Erasmian is the one I've never used, but if I concentrate I can follow it. However were I to use it, I could just imagine Dr. Feagin coming at me "Erasmus is dead, Ken! he's dead!" :). I found that I can acquire a new pronunciation by reading the text out loud and learning songs in them (he gave us a music book for part of the course which I have, sadly, lost). Over time the different methods ingrain themselves. The hard part is vowel length, but I think the only way to get that is to read do poetry scansion and follow the meter. I've been too lazy for that much. That said, once you've got one, it's easy to add the rest. Now that I've got children I'm teaching them Buth's Koine pronunciation. ἔρρωσθε
Thanks a lot for your comments! I like the passion of professor, hahahaha. To give some context, my field of study is ancient Greek philosophy. In this field, no matter the origin of the person, we all engage in the Erasmian pronunciation that I show in my videos. It has become quite a standard practice, so I use it to teach Ancient Greek with the aim of translating ancient texts. As for the pronunciation, as I said in the video, it is hard to shift once you have mastered one if you don't have pronunciation goals. However, I really commend anyone who embarks on that journey out of love for this wonderful language.
Te lo merecés, hermano. Se nota el esfuerzo que ponés. También estudio griego antiguo (erasmiano), y fue una grata compañía tu video. Lo mejor para vos y tu proyecto. Un fuerte abrazo.
Hazme saber qué temas te parecen más útiles de abordar. Tengo una larga lista de ideas, pero siempre me gusta saber qué quiere la gente que está estudiando estas cosas. ¡Un abrazo!
10:00 Just my own perspective, being a bit older than Ioanna. The loss of Dative and multitone text during the transition to Modern Greek is a relatively recent event as it officially happened 50 years ago and it is still present even today mostly in ecclesiastical texts and communications as well as a few phrases like εντάξει ; (ἑν τάξει) Also I am pretty sure that Dative was integrated in Accusative case. 13:00 Another "Back in my day" comment, Διθυραμβικα was (is?) frequently used in newspapers and tv news to describe well received events (from football matches to theatre performances). You have a nice rhythm going in your videos, keep up the good work.
Thank you very much for your comments! To me it's fascinating to see all these recent developments in Modern Greek, especially because these changes are the ones that make the modern version of the language so different from that of ancient times.
@@ChihonTeaches nothing like that happened 50 years ago. @manos7958 probably refers to the official abandoning of the καθαρεύουσα register and the polytonic script, yet those were matters of register and script, in the technical sense, not of spoken language. On the other hand, whoever wishes can and does write and publish texts in polytonic today --- yet whether you use polytonic or not, the implied pronunciation is the same. Whoever wishes can and does use the dative if they feel like it -- είναι γνωστόν τοις πάσι. If you want to get into something fascinating, you might consider the ways in which dative has been substituted in the colloquial speech of different regions. That is a source of jokes, mostly from speakers of Standard Modern Greek towards speakers of non-standard dialects. Yet it is in fact the Standard form that is the most incohesive on how dative is substituted. It goes like this: In spoken Standard Modern Greek, dative is substituted by genitive in the singular but by accusative in the plural, yet in many dialects, it is substitued by accusative in both singular and plural. So an Athenian says "του [genitive singular] έδωσα το βιβλίο" and "τους [accusative plural] έδωσα το βιβλιό" ("I gave the book to him/them"), while a dialect speaker says "τον [accusative singular] έδωσα το βιβλίο". The structural dative remains (there is no periphrasis for it, as, e.g., in English), yet the grammatical dative is not employed.
¡No lo puedo creer, amiiiico! Sabes que soy una genuina fan de tu canal, pero la Poética de Aristóteles es uno de mis clásicos favoritos: arte como mímesis ¡Felicidades por tus reproducciones!
I appreciate seeing the text on the screen while you read it! The only thing missing is some art or a map on the blank wall space behind you. Nice video.
It shows that you guys are good friends, a funny video idea if possible is you and her trying to have a conversation in Ancient Greek , you using the erasmian accent and her trying to understand. 😂 Greetings from Greece ❤
Thank you very much for your words. I will upload new videos as soon as possible, don't you worry. I wish you all the best with your journey into Ancient Greek!
"Dithyrambic" is not a word used everyday by the Greeks, but it is indeed a common word which all, and I mean all, Greeks know what it means and how is being used.
I am currently visiting Athens and realised yesterday that I'm a moron. I was trying to use words I read in lexicons of everyday greek and use the words I saw (for instance the name of a baked good in a shop window). I studied ancient greek and used the pronunciation I was taught. I now understand why people were looking at me funny... Thank you for this video.
I think this is very relatable for many of us. This even happens the other way around, when a Greek pronounces Ancient Greek in conferences in the way they speak nowadays. I see lots of people confused because they don't fully know how the modern pronunciation works, hahahaha. Thanks for your comment!
Thanks for your suggestion! I can definitely make a video about this in the future. On the meantime, you can check my video on Ancient Greek accents here: ruclips.net/video/z8gTz051euU/видео.html
We have a word in italian: “Epopèa”, i suppose it derives from the word “εποποιία»… and even if I’ve never studied ancient/modern greek, when I’ve heard the pronunciation at 3:50… i didn’t like it, it sounded very strange. when the girl reads it at 7:41: that’s a sound that i recognise, because it’s really similar to the italian word “epopèa”. really fascinating how our italian culture derives from ancient greece. 🇬🇷 ❤🇮🇹
Here s a couple of ideas you guys might be interested in, in order to help non-Greek audiences get a feel for the differences in pronunciation, since I am imagining that all the reading is simply sounds to them and they might struggle to see what the fuss is about. You may ask Ioanna to pick a small paragraph from something common like an English newspaper in secret, then have her swap all the "the" and "and" words in it with something similar but alien, for example instead of "the" she could be reading "taho" everytime. Then in addition, you should pick the most often combined letters in English, from the top of my head I am thinking the "-ing" ending and maybe a double "L", something along those lines, and also make up 2 similar but alien sounds instead, like instead of "ing" she keeps pronouncing "oyg" or something. Swap all those things in the paragraph passage, let her practice it on her own a few times, so that she can read it fluently and not get confused by these weird changes and the she can come and read it to you out loud, and check how much of it you understood, what threw you off etc. This idea came to me because of the whole diphthong situation, because it appears so commonly in the greek/ancient greek texts, in the most common words and in the articles. Mispronouncing "και", "οι", etc makes it so unbelievably hard for the average Greek to follow what you are saying because their trained-in-Greek brain can not automatically locate the structure of the sentence, they cant identify familiar sounds to basically "gps" them on a sentence, if that makes sense. Another interesting thing you might wanna try is, especially after the translation video which I think might fit well with this, is then having Ioanna to try and sort of restructure a sentence closer to what a modern Greek structure would look like, just by moving around words (so that the ancient text which would hypothetically say something like "Buses ought for these people of Bus Country have been chosen by their leaders expedition is what was coming up foremost" to a more familiar (for modern Greek that is) structure like " Their leaders ought have chosen buses for the bus people of Bus Country foremost expedition was coming up") which, you know, wouldnt be 100% correct but it would be structurally more familiar and closer to the way modern Greeks speak, and then she can showcase how many of the words she recognizes, how many are still in use in modern Greek and in what level, how many auxiliary verbs have been ditched, which words are still surviving today but their meaning has shifted etc. I think that these are interesting experiments, I d be very interested to see them (or run them myself if my level of ancient Greek was anywhere close to decent)
Wow!!! These are very interesting ideas, I have never thought of them before. Indeed, you're right when you say that the main issue for a trained-im-Greek brain is the diphthongs. Conversely, I struggle with them when interacting in Modern Greek with my friends, since I often need to see the word written in my mind before I speak.
Great idea that! Write something new in Ancient Greek and then read it out loud! That would be perfect! You could also say it in Modern Greek at the same time, or better pronounce Modern Greek in the Erasmian way!!! That would be very interesting! Keep up the good work!
I just saw an other video of you two. The one you read Πολιτεία Πλάτωνος. While mentioning how ευ and αυ behave in modern greek, you forgot a minor rule, but still a rule. If there is a consonant EXCEPT Ρρ(Rr) after υ, the υ is pronounces as f . If there is a vowel or Ρρ it is pronounced like v. So ευτυχία eftihia Ευρωστία eVrostia Αύριο avrio You are both great guys, nice energy nice topic nice everything. Well done, Συγχαρητήρια!!
Thanks for your comment! I'm very interested in what you said just now. Indeed, we did not cover all of the aspects of difference between the two versions of the language, but this one you mention is quite prominent. As someone who learned first Ancient Greek and now I'm starting with Modern Greek, this rule of the υ pronounced as "f" still gets me every time, hahahaha.
As a greek speaker when i watched the ancient text , i mostly understood every word. Butto understand the whole meaning and how to put the words together was the difficut part.
Indeed, that is the real challenge. Many times it happens that I get all the words in a sentence, but then I have no idea how to put them together meaningfully. Practice makes perfect, they say, hahahaha.
Erasmic pronounciation is wrong. It is Just a theory. Wake up. I have read the initial book of Erasmus, i have read Allans "vox greaca" there are no tangible proofs.
Gracias por los videos! What is your take on long and short vowels? What is your (both of you) take on Ioannis Stratakis approach to the pronunciation.
Hello! As you can probably tell from my other videos, my approach to the pronunciation aims more at understanding than to a correct historical accuracy. In my experience in academia (doing ancient Greek philosophy), the most important thing is to understand the texts and provide the most accurate translation we can. Since many of the people working on this are from different parts of the world, the local accents of each happen all the time and what we want the most is to communicate the ideas. Hence, the difference between long and short vowels sometimes goes unnoticed when we read out loud. Sometimes I try to stress it, especially when reading slowly, but in general you can't tell that from my way of reading Ancient Greek. As for Stratakis' pronunciation, I find it quite similar to mine, so I like it a lot. He puts more emotion and drama to the texts he reads, which I appreciate very much.
Being older than Ioanna,i can tell you that the Erasmian pronunciation is a weird misunderstanding of the language that confuses the non native speakers a lot, but it is easier to learn and know how to write the word. And that is the reason for the pronunciation misunderstanding. What the modern Greek lost, is the phonetics. If you read or hear ecclesiastic texts or hymns, you can understand what was lost, especially if the priest is at an older age. Cause they are not changed for more than 1500 years. The pronunciation of Ioanna was good. Now about the phonetics. There are 2 o sounds. Omicron and Omega. The words for the letters of these two, shows you the phonetic. O-micron means small o and O-mega means a bigger o not a double o. In fact is like using a deeper o that lasts longer. Omicron is a short o. The tones that Modern Greek doesn't have any more, are the between tones you can use pronouncing the o. If it lasts longer, if you use a deeper voice etc. Same goes with the e sounds. Ypsilon for example, literally means e with high pitch voice. Yiota on the other hand is like omicron, cause it is a shorter e. Htta is like omega, you have a deeper voice. Remember that ancient Greek, is highly poetic so you need to have a rhythm, using different tones and frequencies. That's the main difference with the Modern Greek. If you understand that toning, then you will understand the difference also for the combined letters like ου. It's short ,cause both ο and υ are short. If it has a ~ on top, then it lasts longer etc. Something I didn't see in this video or the previous one you made with Ioanna, is that all the ancient Greek words, are still in use today but mostly in combined words. Modern Greeks will use the word alogo for the horse and not hypos.But if they want to talk about horse power,they will say hypodyname. There isn't any ancient Greek word (even from the time of Homer) that it is not used today. This is one of the reasons why we are certain that ancient Greek sounded more like Ioanna's attempt and not that erasmian weird sounding. The toning in Greece changed during the late 70s. But lost a lot from the early 20s. One of the things fascinates me a lot, is the accents and the using of words in places like villages on the high mountains of Pindos etc. that are the same as in the ancient times and not in the modern Greek language. For example most Greeks would say το ποτό (the drink),over there they will say το πιοτί, like in the homer dialect. Ask Ioanna to tell you the difference on the dialects and especially the Pontic and the dialect of Vlachs. Great video once again.
Thanks a lot for these comments!!! I think the topic of the survival of Ancient Greek words in Modern Greek deserves a video of its own. I hope we can manage to arrange one with Ioanna in the near future to touch the topics you highlighted here.
@@learnbiblicalgreek316 Indeed! I have asked several times some of my Cypriot acquaintances to appear on a video to show this to the world, but so far no luck. Fingers crossed I'll find someone soon!
@@ChihonTeaches Ἐγώ εἰμι Κύπριος τῷ γένει. ἴσως ἐὰν θέλῃς δυνάμεθα συνεργάζεσθαι. Do you know Sara? She is a Spanish lady learning Modern Greek. Her Greek accent is very good. This is her channel www.youtube.com/@mygreekdiary. It may be good to get in touch with her. You can speak to her in Ancient Greek and she can speak to you in Modern Greek. Even though you use Erasmian pronunciation, it sounds better coming from you than a native English-speaker because the Spanish sounds are close to Greek (though not the vocabulary).
It's not Ancient Greek vs Modern Greek. It's Erasmian Construct Ancient Greek vs Modern Greek. By the way Modern Greek pronunciation is not that modern, as it is around a thousand years old or more.
its just the erasmian learning method, that guy was clever and developed a method to hear with your ears how a word is written indicating all accents, grammar and orthography. We are pretty sure and its plausible that ancient greeks most likely spoke and pronounced the words as modern greeks do.
Thanks for your comment! As a native speaker of Spanish, the Erasmian pronunciation is very helpful since almost all letters symbolise a unique sound (with some exceptions in the diphthongs), and for us that is pretty natural. In terms of the pronunciation of the language, already in ancient times there is an evolution of Greek language that makes it similar to the modern version around the period in which the New Gospel was written, but in Classical Greece we are able to spot important differences with Modern Greek.
Hi and thanks for your work! If you have done this video you talk about at the end (explaining how you think about translation step by step), can you please post a link to it? Thank you!
Thanks for your comment!!! I'm happy to inform that the wait is over. Here is the video: ruclips.net/video/ORQYKEVPwD4/видео.html Please let me know what you think about it!
There is no evidence that the Erasmian pronounciation was ever in use, let alone in the 4th century. If it was, we would not have mispellings such as "loimos" as "limos" as described by Thucydides who, guess what, lived during the 5th century BC.
Erasmus that lived in the 15th century that was Dutch will show us how ancient greeks spoke? The real way is at a Greek orthodox church. I believe that the way they speak in church is more accurate than erasmus?.. My humble opinion..
Hello! This is a fascinating topic. The point is what we are considering more accurate here. You are right in claiming that the Greek Orthodox Church has a strong claim for originality, but that would be for a specific branch of Ancient Greek. As it happens, we know that Koine Greek had some important differences with Classical Greek (Vth and IVth centuries BC). So, if you take the Greek in which Plato or Pericles spoke, perhaps that's closer to Erasumus than to the Greek Church.
Not wanting to offend, as a native speaker and Greek philologist,I found the Erasmian accent completely wrong because it has many deficiencies. In that way,the language loses its musicality,rhythm and intonation. In my perspective, the non-native Greek teachers should learn and then teach the correct way of pronouncing the words.Otherwise nobody will understand the meanings of our great ancient Greek philosophers,tragic poets etc.I would strongly recomment you to learn the correct way by learning Modern Greek and not insisting on the completely wrong pronunciation.Keep going!
Thanks a lot for your comment! This is the essence of the debate, indeed. It is a concern I get very often, especially from native Greek speakers. Greek language, like every other old language, has experienced changes and adaptations over the centuries. However, as you well point out, the pronunciation from Koine Greek onwards has remained very close to that of Modern Greek today. However, things change a lot when we go to the Classical Period, and not just in pronunciation. The interesting question now is: what is the correct pronunciation, then?
@@ChihonTeaches The Hellenic History has actually answered to that question. First and foremost there is no distinction between the Archaic Greek and the Koini which was historically subsequent .For example, some of them are the following : the dual number (specifying two of a thing) vanished, leaving only the singular and plural. Some verbs with irregular conjugations were standardized. Participles (nouns or adjectives formed from a verb, as in “intensive training” or “broken English”) waned in popularity. Similar minor changes occurred throughout the language. To understand how and why these sorts of changes happened, it is instructive to compare the evolution of English. How many native English speakers today use “whom”-or know how to use it correctly -in speech or writing? Most of us prefer “who,” regardless of context; “whom” might even sound awkward or unnatural to our ears.While these represent different sorts of linguistic changes, they are both motivated by the drive toward simplicity and intelligibility. Nonnative speakers (and often native speakers) cannot be bothered to remember the finer points of grammar and usage, especially when those points are rare or superfluous. Greek underwent a similar trend with the rise of Koine. In my opinion, there isn't an actual dichotomy between Attic and Koini dialect. While this dichotomy might be useful for timelines and textbook charts, it's not really useful when you study Ancient Greek either as a native Greek speaker or as non-native speaker.
Well, as a philologist you should've known that the ancient greek pronunciation was different than modern greek. In fact, the further you go back in time, the bigger the difference. As a greek myself, I'm so frustrated and embarrassed when clueless greeks, who barely know any ancient greek, think they can "correct" classicists on the internet. We have to accept that speaking modern greek does NOT make us experts in ancient greek pronunciation. Greek schools should've done better job at informing us about these differences.
@@msicvbes4977 I partially agree with you when it comes to the argument that every Greek speaker can't be surely an expert in Greek language,let alone the Ancient Greek. However, there are people not only those who teach this language professionally but also those who are just keen on the Ancient Greek language.The Erasmian style of pronunciation is inexplicable to many people (not only to Greek philologists) because it doesn't make sense not only in relation to Modern Greek but generally it seems to be a wrong approach to the total phonetic system of Greek language (both Ancient and Modern). Modern Greek are almost based on Koini to a great extent. Τhere is no evidence that there would be much difference with the Archaic version. Ancient Greek is a vivid,long lasting language which hasn't been disappeared in history but it does still survive nowdays, even though it's obviously modified.
@@fairytale7070 In fact, there IS evidence that Greek from the Archaic and even Classical era was different from Koine. You are right that the changes that happened to Koine were fundamental and the basis for modern greek pronounciation . Since the Hellenistic era greek pronunciation was slowly changing and transforming towards its modern sound. However before Koine, during Classical, Archaic, Dark Ages and Mycenean era, the pronunciation was much closer to the Erasmian than modern greek.
3:27 The way that this sounds reminds me of a Asian, Chinese - Japanese - maybe even Korean language than an ancient Greek language; Just close your eyes and listen... Imagine that you didn't know Greek at all... Would you say that this sounds like someone from the Mediterranean would sound? Or would you say that this comes from Idk Japan or Korea? And for example in Spain or in Italy, you can see the similarities with Greek... And the similarities are more towards the way that Ioanna pronounces the words. For example the letter "τ", some call it "taf" some call it "tau"... Doesn't "tau" sound more like a Japanese word than "taf"?
4:07 Your confidence in the "διαφέρουσι" came out of you. LMAO! Haha. Just, DO NOT hurry when reading Greek. Just read in sylabes! Take your time when reading texts. Just chill and enjoy it! Step on the tones and take a rest! Emphasize the tones. Neither she read it perfectly.
Go slowly she said. Still too fast. Think of Your Greek Archbishop givinga sermonor commentary. Every word thought and precisely said. Unlike chatting in the market.
You could definitely try learning modern Greek, you'll find it easier than ancient . Maybe you can get a different and broader perspective on the matter. Plus great vacations 👍 I won't comment on the Erasmian pronounciation as my knowledge is limited to your videos and Polymathy's videos, but it definitely "feels" unnatural ,being Greek that is.
Σ' ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ!!! Yes, I'm on my way to master Modern Greek as well, as I have many Greek friends here. It's definitely simpler in some aspects, but very often I get confused between modern and ancient versions or pronunciations.
It seems like the modern Greek believe that Ancient Greek had to be pronounced the same as modern Greek. I know nothing about Greek per se but I know languages evolve. None of the speakers of modern Latin languages can understand a word of classical Latin. Ancient Greek is even older than Latin, plus it was conquered by the Roman and had to be influenced through three or four centuries in the Roman Empire. Plus it went through a lot of vicissitudes since. Therefore OBVIOUSLY Ancient Greek must be very different to modern Greek. On the other hand you mentioned Erasmus i believe in the first video with Joanna. He might not have it right either. In conclusion, modern Greek, get used to it: Ancient Greek is a different language!! I wonder even how it is called Greek. After all French and Spanish are not called modern Latin…
How with your assumptions, without basic knowledge, can comment on this topic. What you mean by ancient Greek?Homeric, Attic, Ionian, Hellenistic? Hellenistic like the Bible don't differ so much from modern Greek, as for Attic we speak about 2500 years ago, of is different from contemporary Greek, but if you spoke Greek you could still grasp a lot, is not the same like Latin and Italian
Ancient Greek is the same language as modern Greek, since they are both Greek. It is a different form of Greek, not a different language. But in essence, you just assume things that you have little knowledge of. We know the phonetics changed to an extent, but to say that you should pronounce every vowel separately as a plausible variant of Greek is ridiculous. There are far too many words with far too many "oi", "eu", "ai" and "ei" for such a thing. It would not be a practical language.
@@johanlassen6448 That last point is SO spot on. There are some ancient words that have a cluster of digraphs that, if pronounced separately, would make for very impractical speech articulations. Even something as short υιός, which sounds just like ιός in MG pronunciation, sounds overly complicated in Erasmian/Reconstructed Classical Attic pronunciation. Something like hoo-i-os. Κινδυνεύουσιν is even more convoluted (kind-oo-ne-oo-u-sin). Whereas in the MG pronunciation, the use of a consonant sound /v/ in "-evousin" makes for a much more balanced phrasing between all the vowels. Btw I'm using 'oo' for /y/.
The thing with 'speakers of Erasmian Greek' is that they are almost always non-Greeks. As such they sound like what some ancient northern barbarian (Hyperborean) may have sounded like having mastered Greek ... fluent, no doubt, but a little rough ... Having said that you do a very good job. Your 'tau', for example, sounds like a modern Greek one in contrast to the the almost aspirated 't' that native English-speakers tend to use.
@@GeoBBB123 Thanks for your comment! This is absolutely true. In my experience, the only place in which the Erasmian way is not used is Greece. However, you can find several academic Greek scholars engaging in the Erasmian pronunciation nonetheless. Different periods of Greek development had different pronunciations, and the Erasmian tries to convey one that is closes to the V century BC. After that it becomes less precise, and you can clearly see the transition from Koine to Byzantine and Modern Greek. As for the tau that you mention, the Erasmian pronunciation sounds different depending on the country of origin of the person using it. My native language is Spanish, so the pronunciation of that consonant is practically the same as that of Modern Greek. I've herad Italians, Germans, French, and English speakers using the Erasmian pronunciation and they all sound different. Nevertheless, it's a useful tool to agree on certain basic pronunciation principles so that we can then discuss the contents of the Greek texts involved.
![Conversation: Ancient Greek vs. Modern Greek [SUB ESP]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vDojnOSporE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Learn Ancient Greek: Alphabet and Basics of Pronunciation [SUB ESP]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/grtUHSWlWcQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Learn Ancient Greek: Introduction to Accents [SUB ESP]](/img/1.gif)
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I love the on screen chemistry you and Ioanna have! I had fun watching such good friends debate the topic.
Thank you!!! ❤️
χαῖρε,
My professor taught me Koine Greek with a Demotic pronunciation. As a result, I had a much easier time understanding Ioanna than you. His battle cry was "Erasmus is dead! He's dead, I say!"
However, when I began studying Homer, I learned a reconstructed Attic pronunciation. Then later I learned Buth's Koine reconstructed pronunciation. Recently I encountered a "Lucian pronunciation" which aims for a more 1st century AD/BC pronunciation. Erasmian is the one I've never used, but if I concentrate I can follow it. However were I to use it, I could just imagine Dr. Feagin coming at me "Erasmus is dead, Ken! he's dead!" :).
I found that I can acquire a new pronunciation by reading the text out loud and learning songs in them (he gave us a music book for part of the course which I have, sadly, lost). Over time the different methods ingrain themselves. The hard part is vowel length, but I think the only way to get that is to read do poetry scansion and follow the meter. I've been too lazy for that much. That said, once you've got one, it's easy to add the rest. Now that I've got children I'm teaching them Buth's Koine pronunciation.
ἔρρωσθε
Thanks a lot for your comments!
I like the passion of professor, hahahaha. To give some context, my field of study is ancient Greek philosophy. In this field, no matter the origin of the person, we all engage in the Erasmian pronunciation that I show in my videos. It has become quite a standard practice, so I use it to teach Ancient Greek with the aim of translating ancient texts. As for the pronunciation, as I said in the video, it is hard to shift once you have mastered one if you don't have pronunciation goals. However, I really commend anyone who embarks on that journey out of love for this wonderful language.
Ancient koine modern Greek is the same Language and pronunciation
The erasmian pronunciation is false and isn't Greek
@@Llyebbay Correct. The Erasmian pronounciation is just utter nonsense and anyone who respects the Greek language should drop it immediately.
looking forward to the teased follow up! it'll be interesting learning of other methods to translate text with
The best duo in RUclips😍😍
Loved it... again, lol. And completely support your channel. Regards, from Argentina.
¡Muchas gracias por el apoyo!
Te lo merecés, hermano. Se nota el esfuerzo que ponés. También estudio griego antiguo (erasmiano), y fue una grata compañía tu video. Lo mejor para vos y tu proyecto. Un fuerte abrazo.
Hazme saber qué temas te parecen más útiles de abordar. Tengo una larga lista de ideas, pero siempre me gusta saber qué quiere la gente que está estudiando estas cosas. ¡Un abrazo!
10:00 Just my own perspective, being a bit older than Ioanna.
The loss of Dative and multitone text during the transition to Modern Greek is a relatively recent event as it officially happened 50 years ago and it is still present even today mostly in ecclesiastical texts and communications as well as a few phrases like εντάξει ; (ἑν τάξει)
Also I am pretty sure that Dative was integrated in Accusative case.
13:00 Another "Back in my day" comment, Διθυραμβικα was (is?) frequently used in newspapers and tv news to describe well received events (from football matches to theatre performances).
You have a nice rhythm going in your videos, keep up the good work.
Thank you very much for your comments!
To me it's fascinating to see all these recent developments in Modern Greek, especially because these changes are the ones that make the modern version of the language so different from that of ancient times.
Erasmus is not accurate! This doesn't sound Greek!
@@ChihonTeaches nothing like that happened 50 years ago. @manos7958 probably refers to the official abandoning of the καθαρεύουσα register and the polytonic script, yet those were matters of register and script, in the technical sense, not of spoken language. On the other hand, whoever wishes can and does write and publish texts in polytonic today --- yet whether you use polytonic or not, the implied pronunciation is the same. Whoever wishes can and does use the dative if they feel like it -- είναι γνωστόν τοις πάσι. If you want to get into something fascinating, you might consider the ways in which dative has been substituted in the colloquial speech of different regions. That is a source of jokes, mostly from speakers of Standard Modern Greek towards speakers of non-standard dialects. Yet it is in fact the Standard form that is the most incohesive on how dative is substituted. It goes like this:
In spoken Standard Modern Greek, dative is substituted by genitive in the singular but by accusative in the plural, yet in many dialects, it is substitued by accusative in both singular and plural. So an Athenian says "του [genitive singular] έδωσα το βιβλίο" and "τους [accusative plural] έδωσα το βιβλιό" ("I gave the book to him/them"), while a dialect speaker says "τον [accusative singular] έδωσα το βιβλίο". The structural dative remains (there is no periphrasis for it, as, e.g., in English), yet the grammatical dative is not employed.
¡No lo puedo creer, amiiiico! Sabes que soy una genuina fan de tu canal, pero la Poética de Aristóteles es uno de mis clásicos favoritos: arte como mímesis ¡Felicidades por tus reproducciones!
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
I appreciate seeing the text on the screen while you read it! The only thing missing is some art or a map on the blank wall space behind you. Nice video.
Thanks for your comment!!!
Yes, I'm working on the background stuff now. Next videos will have better aesthetic! ❤️
It shows that you guys are good friends, a funny video idea if possible is you and her trying to have a conversation in Ancient Greek , you using the erasmian accent and her trying to understand. 😂
Greetings from Greece ❤
Oooooohhh, good idea!!! Not sure if we'll be able to communicate, but it would be worth a try, hahahaha.
Wow! I am starting learning AG. Your videos are extremely useful! Keep making them
Thank you very much for your words. I will upload new videos as soon as possible, don't you worry. I wish you all the best with your journey into Ancient Greek!
"Dithyrambic" is not a word used everyday by the Greeks, but it is indeed a common word which all, and I mean all, Greeks know what it means and how is being used.
I love both you guys so much
Thank you so much for your support!!!
I am currently visiting Athens and realised yesterday that I'm a moron. I was trying to use words I read in lexicons of everyday greek and use the words I saw (for instance the name of a baked good in a shop window). I studied ancient greek and used the pronunciation I was taught. I now understand why people were looking at me funny...
Thank you for this video.
I think this is very relatable for many of us. This even happens the other way around, when a Greek pronounces Ancient Greek in conferences in the way they speak nowadays. I see lots of people confused because they don't fully know how the modern pronunciation works, hahahaha. Thanks for your comment!
It were phantastic of you could end your lesson with the LECTURE of some phrases with the different sorts of accents pitch and circumflex
Thanks for your suggestion!
I can definitely make a video about this in the future. On the meantime, you can check my video on Ancient Greek accents here: ruclips.net/video/z8gTz051euU/видео.html
Awesome video! Very fun and useful!
We have a word in italian: “Epopèa”, i suppose it derives from the word “εποποιία»… and even if I’ve never studied ancient/modern greek, when I’ve heard the pronunciation at 3:50… i didn’t like it, it sounded very strange. when the girl reads it at 7:41: that’s a sound that i recognise, because it’s really similar to the italian word “epopèa”. really fascinating how our italian culture derives from ancient greece. 🇬🇷 ❤🇮🇹
The more you learn Greek, the more you realise how much it is present EVERYWHERE, hahahaha. Thanks for your comment!
Here s a couple of ideas you guys might be interested in, in order to help non-Greek audiences get a feel for the differences in pronunciation, since I am imagining that all the reading is simply sounds to them and they might struggle to see what the fuss is about. You may ask Ioanna to pick a small paragraph from something common like an English newspaper in secret, then have her swap all the "the" and "and" words in it with something similar but alien, for example instead of "the" she could be reading "taho" everytime. Then in addition, you should pick the most often combined letters in English, from the top of my head I am thinking the "-ing" ending and maybe a double "L", something along those lines, and also make up 2 similar but alien sounds instead, like instead of "ing" she keeps pronouncing "oyg" or something. Swap all those things in the paragraph passage, let her practice it on her own a few times, so that she can read it fluently and not get confused by these weird changes and the she can come and read it to you out loud, and check how much of it you understood, what threw you off etc. This idea came to me because of the whole diphthong situation, because it appears so commonly in the greek/ancient greek texts, in the most common words and in the articles. Mispronouncing "και", "οι", etc makes it so unbelievably hard for the average Greek to follow what you are saying because their trained-in-Greek brain can not automatically locate the structure of the sentence, they cant identify familiar sounds to basically "gps" them on a sentence, if that makes sense. Another interesting thing you might wanna try is, especially after the translation video which I think might fit well with this, is then having Ioanna to try and sort of restructure a sentence closer to what a modern Greek structure would look like, just by moving around words (so that the ancient text which would hypothetically say something like "Buses ought for these people of Bus Country have been chosen by their leaders expedition is what was coming up foremost" to a more familiar (for modern Greek that is) structure like " Their leaders ought have chosen buses for the bus people of Bus Country foremost expedition was coming up") which, you know, wouldnt be 100% correct but it would be structurally more familiar and closer to the way modern Greeks speak, and then she can showcase how many of the words she recognizes, how many are still in use in modern Greek and in what level, how many auxiliary verbs have been ditched, which words are still surviving today but their meaning has shifted etc. I think that these are interesting experiments, I d be very interested to see them (or run them myself if my level of ancient Greek was anywhere close to decent)
Wow!!! These are very interesting ideas, I have never thought of them before. Indeed, you're right when you say that the main issue for a trained-im-Greek brain is the diphthongs. Conversely, I struggle with them when interacting in Modern Greek with my friends, since I often need to see the word written in my mind before I speak.
You would make a great couple! You are so good together.
Great idea that! Write something new in Ancient Greek and then read it out loud! That would be perfect! You could also say it in Modern Greek at the same time, or better pronounce Modern Greek in the Erasmian way!!! That would be very interesting! Keep up the good work!
Thank you!!! I hope to create more content of this kind, especially with Greek natives, since they have the 100% original accent.
I just saw an other video of you two. The one you read Πολιτεία Πλάτωνος. While mentioning how ευ and αυ behave in modern greek, you forgot a minor rule, but still a rule.
If there is a consonant EXCEPT Ρρ(Rr) after υ, the υ is pronounces as f . If there is a vowel or Ρρ it is pronounced like v.
So ευτυχία eftihia
Ευρωστία eVrostia
Αύριο avrio
You are both great guys, nice energy nice topic nice everything.
Well done, Συγχαρητήρια!!
Thanks for your comment!
I'm very interested in what you said just now. Indeed, we did not cover all of the aspects of difference between the two versions of the language, but this one you mention is quite prominent. As someone who learned first Ancient Greek and now I'm starting with Modern Greek, this rule of the υ pronounced as "f" still gets me every time, hahahaha.
"poetics" is not "ποιήματα", it is "Αριστοτέλους, Ποιητική"
There is a lack of formality from those 2 it can not be taken seriously
chill
As a greek speaker when i watched the ancient text , i mostly understood every word. Butto understand the whole meaning and how to put the words together was the difficut part.
Indeed, that is the real challenge. Many times it happens that I get all the words in a sentence, but then I have no idea how to put them together meaningfully. Practice makes perfect, they say, hahahaha.
Erasmic pronounciation is wrong. It is Just a theory. Wake up. I have read the initial book of Erasmus, i have read Allans "vox greaca" there are no tangible proofs.
Gracias por los videos! What is your take on long and short vowels? What is your (both of you) take on Ioannis Stratakis approach to the pronunciation.
Hello!
As you can probably tell from my other videos, my approach to the pronunciation aims more at understanding than to a correct historical accuracy. In my experience in academia (doing ancient Greek philosophy), the most important thing is to understand the texts and provide the most accurate translation we can. Since many of the people working on this are from different parts of the world, the local accents of each happen all the time and what we want the most is to communicate the ideas.
Hence, the difference between long and short vowels sometimes goes unnoticed when we read out loud. Sometimes I try to stress it, especially when reading slowly, but in general you can't tell that from my way of reading Ancient Greek. As for Stratakis' pronunciation, I find it quite similar to mine, so I like it a lot. He puts more emotion and drama to the texts he reads, which I appreciate very much.
Being older than Ioanna,i can tell you that the Erasmian pronunciation is a weird misunderstanding of the language that confuses the non native speakers a lot, but it is easier to learn and know how to write the word. And that is the reason for the pronunciation misunderstanding. What the modern Greek lost, is the phonetics. If you read or hear ecclesiastic texts or hymns, you can understand what was lost, especially if the priest is at an older age. Cause they are not changed for more than 1500 years. The pronunciation of Ioanna was good. Now about the phonetics. There are 2 o sounds. Omicron and Omega. The words for the letters of these two, shows you the phonetic. O-micron means small o and O-mega means a bigger o not a double o. In fact is like using a deeper o that lasts longer. Omicron is a short o. The tones that Modern Greek doesn't have any more, are the between tones you can use pronouncing the o. If it lasts longer, if you use a deeper voice etc. Same goes with the e sounds. Ypsilon for example, literally means e with high pitch voice. Yiota on the other hand is like omicron, cause it is a shorter e. Htta is like omega, you have a deeper voice. Remember that ancient Greek, is highly poetic so you need to have a rhythm, using different tones and frequencies. That's the main difference with the Modern Greek. If you understand that toning, then you will understand the difference also for the combined letters like ου. It's short ,cause both ο and υ are short. If it has a ~ on top, then it lasts longer etc.
Something I didn't see in this video or the previous one you made with Ioanna, is that all the ancient Greek words, are still in use today but mostly in combined words. Modern Greeks will use the word alogo for the horse and not hypos.But if they want to talk about horse power,they will say hypodyname. There isn't any ancient Greek word (even from the time of Homer) that it is not used today. This is one of the reasons why we are certain that ancient Greek sounded more like Ioanna's attempt and not that erasmian weird sounding. The toning in Greece changed during the late 70s. But lost a lot from the early 20s.
One of the things fascinates me a lot, is the accents and the using of words in places like villages on the high mountains of Pindos etc. that are the same as in the ancient times and not in the modern Greek language. For example most Greeks would say το ποτό (the drink),over there they will say το πιοτί, like in the homer dialect. Ask Ioanna to tell you the difference on the dialects and especially the Pontic and the dialect of Vlachs.
Great video once again.
Thanks a lot for these comments!!!
I think the topic of the survival of Ancient Greek words in Modern Greek deserves a video of its own. I hope we can manage to arrange one with Ioanna in the near future to touch the topics you highlighted here.
@@ChihonTeachesThe Greek-Cypriot dialect has many archaisms.
@@learnbiblicalgreek316 Indeed! I have asked several times some of my Cypriot acquaintances to appear on a video to show this to the world, but so far no luck. Fingers crossed I'll find someone soon!
@@ChihonTeaches Ἐγώ εἰμι Κύπριος τῷ γένει. ἴσως ἐὰν θέλῃς δυνάμεθα συνεργάζεσθαι.
Do you know Sara? She is a Spanish lady learning Modern Greek. Her Greek accent is very good. This is her channel www.youtube.com/@mygreekdiary. It may be good to get in touch with her. You can speak to her in Ancient Greek and she can speak to you in Modern Greek.
Even though you use Erasmian pronunciation, it sounds better coming from you than a native English-speaker because the Spanish sounds are close to Greek (though not the vocabulary).
Where's the part 3?
Panjabi vs Sindhi
It's not Ancient Greek vs Modern Greek. It's Erasmian Construct Ancient Greek vs Modern Greek. By the way Modern Greek pronunciation is not that modern, as it is around a thousand years old or more.
Nailed it! 😊
its just the erasmian learning method, that guy was clever and developed a method to hear with your ears how a word is written indicating all accents, grammar and orthography. We are pretty sure and its plausible that ancient greeks most likely spoke and pronounced the words as modern greeks do.
Thanks for your comment!
As a native speaker of Spanish, the Erasmian pronunciation is very helpful since almost all letters symbolise a unique sound (with some exceptions in the diphthongs), and for us that is pretty natural.
In terms of the pronunciation of the language, already in ancient times there is an evolution of Greek language that makes it similar to the modern version around the period in which the New Gospel was written, but in Classical Greece we are able to spot important differences with Modern Greek.
@@ChihonTeaches it's the same Language and pronunciation
The erasmian pronunciation is false ... isn't Greek
Wena wn! Super interesantes los videos!
¡Graciaaaaaaass! ❤️
Hi and thanks for your work! If you have done this video you talk about at the end (explaining how you think about translation step by step), can you please post a link to it? Thank you!
Thanks for your comment!!!
I'm happy to inform that the wait is over. Here is the video: ruclips.net/video/ORQYKEVPwD4/видео.html
Please let me know what you think about it!
There is no evidence that the Erasmian pronounciation was ever in use, let alone in the 4th century. If it was, we would not have mispellings such as "loimos" as "limos" as described by Thucydides who, guess what, lived during the 5th century BC.
Erasmus that lived in the 15th century that was Dutch will show us how ancient greeks spoke? The real way is at a Greek orthodox church. I believe that the way they speak in church is more accurate than erasmus?.. My humble opinion..
Hello!
This is a fascinating topic. The point is what we are considering more accurate here. You are right in claiming that the Greek Orthodox Church has a strong claim for originality, but that would be for a specific branch of Ancient Greek. As it happens, we know that Koine Greek had some important differences with Classical Greek (Vth and IVth centuries BC). So, if you take the Greek in which Plato or Pericles spoke, perhaps that's closer to Erasumus than to the Greek Church.
Not wanting to offend, as a native speaker and Greek philologist,I found the Erasmian accent completely wrong because it has many deficiencies. In that way,the language loses its musicality,rhythm and intonation. In my perspective, the non-native Greek teachers should learn and then teach the correct way of pronouncing the words.Otherwise nobody will understand the meanings of our great ancient Greek philosophers,tragic poets etc.I would strongly recomment you to learn the correct way by learning Modern Greek and not insisting on the completely wrong pronunciation.Keep going!
Thanks a lot for your comment!
This is the essence of the debate, indeed. It is a concern I get very often, especially from native Greek speakers. Greek language, like every other old language, has experienced changes and adaptations over the centuries. However, as you well point out, the pronunciation from Koine Greek onwards has remained very close to that of Modern Greek today. However, things change a lot when we go to the Classical Period, and not just in pronunciation. The interesting question now is: what is the correct pronunciation, then?
@@ChihonTeaches The Hellenic History has actually answered to that question. First and foremost there is no distinction between the Archaic Greek and the Koini which was historically subsequent .For example, some of them are the following : the dual number (specifying two of a thing) vanished, leaving only the singular and plural. Some verbs with irregular conjugations were standardized. Participles (nouns or adjectives formed from a verb, as in “intensive training” or “broken English”) waned in popularity. Similar minor changes occurred throughout the language.
To understand how and why these sorts of changes happened, it is instructive to compare the evolution of English. How many native English speakers today use “whom”-or know how to use it correctly -in speech or writing? Most of us prefer “who,” regardless of context; “whom” might even sound awkward or unnatural to our ears.While these represent different sorts of linguistic changes, they are both motivated by the drive toward simplicity and intelligibility.
Nonnative speakers (and often native speakers) cannot be bothered to remember the finer points of grammar and usage, especially when those points are rare or superfluous. Greek underwent a similar trend with the rise of Koine. In my opinion, there isn't an actual dichotomy between Attic and Koini dialect. While this dichotomy might be useful for timelines and textbook charts, it's not really useful when you study Ancient Greek either as a native Greek speaker or as non-native speaker.
Well, as a philologist you should've known that the ancient greek pronunciation was different than modern greek. In fact, the further you go back in time, the bigger the difference. As a greek myself, I'm so frustrated and embarrassed when clueless greeks, who barely know any ancient greek, think they can "correct" classicists on the internet. We have to accept that speaking modern greek does NOT make us experts in ancient greek pronunciation. Greek schools should've done better job at informing us about these differences.
@@msicvbes4977 I partially agree with you when it comes to the argument that every Greek speaker can't be surely an expert in Greek language,let alone the Ancient Greek. However, there are people not only those who teach this language professionally but also those who are just keen on the Ancient Greek language.The Erasmian style of pronunciation is inexplicable to many people (not only to Greek philologists) because it doesn't make sense not only in relation to Modern Greek but generally it seems to be a wrong approach to the total phonetic system of Greek language (both Ancient and Modern). Modern Greek are almost based on Koini to a great extent. Τhere is no evidence that there would be much difference with the Archaic version. Ancient Greek is a vivid,long lasting language which hasn't been disappeared in history but it does still survive nowdays, even though it's obviously modified.
@@fairytale7070 In fact, there IS evidence that Greek from the Archaic and even Classical era was different from Koine. You are right that the changes that happened to Koine were fundamental and the basis for modern greek pronounciation . Since the Hellenistic era greek pronunciation was slowly changing and transforming towards its modern sound. However before Koine, during Classical, Archaic, Dark Ages and Mycenean era, the pronunciation was much closer to the Erasmian than modern greek.
Ai became Ai to recall earlier form but not spokenvanylonger. And maybe to save ink. Joke
3:27 The way that this sounds reminds me of a Asian, Chinese - Japanese - maybe even Korean language than an ancient Greek language;
Just close your eyes and listen... Imagine that you didn't know Greek at all... Would you say that this sounds like someone from the Mediterranean would sound? Or would you say that this comes from Idk Japan or Korea?
And for example in Spain or in Italy, you can see the similarities with Greek... And the similarities are more towards the way that Ioanna pronounces the words.
For example the letter "τ", some call it "taf" some call it "tau"... Doesn't "tau" sound more like a Japanese word than "taf"?
Erasmian is what greeks would call barbarian language
Wena compatriota!
¡Wena, pariente!
4:07 Your confidence in the "διαφέρουσι" came out of you. LMAO! Haha.
Just, DO NOT hurry when reading Greek. Just read in sylabes! Take your time when reading texts. Just chill and enjoy it!
Step on the tones and take a rest! Emphasize the tones. Neither she read it perfectly.
Actually it's one of the very few words that he pronounced sensibly
@@emiliosnic Είναι καλός ο Ισπανός. Θα τα πάει πολύ καλά. 🙂
Thanks everyone for watching!!!
You can check the promised translation of the passage we read here: ruclips.net/video/ORQYKEVPwD4/видео.html
please, do not say "aiota", it is just "iota"
Go slowly she said. Still too fast. Think of Your Greek Archbishop givinga sermonor commentary. Every word thought and precisely said. Unlike chatting in the market.
You could definitely try learning modern Greek, you'll find it easier than ancient . Maybe you can get a different and broader perspective on the matter. Plus great vacations 👍
I won't comment on the Erasmian pronounciation as my knowledge is limited to your videos and Polymathy's videos, but it definitely "feels" unnatural ,being Greek that is.
Σ' ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ!!!
Yes, I'm on my way to master Modern Greek as well, as I have many Greek friends here. It's definitely simpler in some aspects, but very often I get confused between modern and ancient versions or pronunciations.
Ancient and modern is the same Language
vs ? Why ?
It seems like the modern Greek believe that Ancient Greek had to be pronounced the same as modern Greek. I know nothing about Greek per se but I know languages evolve. None of the speakers of modern Latin languages can understand a word of classical Latin. Ancient Greek is even older than Latin, plus it was conquered by the Roman and had to be influenced through three or four centuries in the Roman Empire. Plus it went through a lot of vicissitudes since. Therefore OBVIOUSLY Ancient Greek must be very different to modern Greek.
On the other hand you mentioned Erasmus i believe in the first video with Joanna. He might not have it right either. In conclusion, modern Greek, get used to it: Ancient Greek is a different language!! I wonder even how it is called Greek. After all French and Spanish are not called modern Latin…
How with your assumptions, without basic knowledge, can comment on this topic. What you mean by ancient Greek?Homeric, Attic, Ionian, Hellenistic? Hellenistic like the Bible don't differ so much from modern Greek, as for Attic we speak about 2500 years ago, of is different from contemporary Greek, but if you spoke Greek you could still grasp a lot, is not the same like Latin and Italian
Ancient Greek is the same language as modern Greek, since they are both Greek. It is a different form of Greek, not a different language.
But in essence, you just assume things that you have little knowledge of. We know the phonetics changed to an extent, but to say that you should pronounce every vowel separately as a plausible variant of Greek is ridiculous. There are far too many words with far too many "oi", "eu", "ai" and "ei" for such a thing. It would not be a practical language.
@@johanlassen6448 That last point is SO spot on. There are some ancient words that have a cluster of digraphs that, if pronounced separately, would make for very impractical speech articulations. Even something as short υιός, which sounds just like ιός in MG pronunciation, sounds overly complicated in Erasmian/Reconstructed Classical Attic pronunciation. Something like hoo-i-os. Κινδυνεύουσιν is even more convoluted (kind-oo-ne-oo-u-sin). Whereas in the MG pronunciation, the use of a consonant sound /v/ in "-evousin" makes for a much more balanced phrasing between all the vowels. Btw I'm using 'oo' for /y/.
Not like modern but you can spell better.
The thing with 'speakers of Erasmian Greek' is that they are almost always non-Greeks. As such they sound like what some ancient northern barbarian (Hyperborean) may have sounded like having mastered Greek ... fluent, no doubt, but a little rough ... Having said that you do a very good job. Your 'tau', for example, sounds like a modern Greek one in contrast to the the almost aspirated 't' that native English-speakers tend to use.
@@GeoBBB123 Thanks for your comment! This is absolutely true. In my experience, the only place in which the Erasmian way is not used is Greece. However, you can find several academic Greek scholars engaging in the Erasmian pronunciation nonetheless. Different periods of Greek development had different pronunciations, and the Erasmian tries to convey one that is closes to the V century BC. After that it becomes less precise, and you can clearly see the transition from Koine to Byzantine and Modern Greek.
As for the tau that you mention, the Erasmian pronunciation sounds different depending on the country of origin of the person using it. My native language is Spanish, so the pronunciation of that consonant is practically the same as that of Modern Greek. I've herad Italians, Germans, French, and English speakers using the Erasmian pronunciation and they all sound different. Nevertheless, it's a useful tool to agree on certain basic pronunciation principles so that we can then discuss the contents of the Greek texts involved.
what do you mean by we used to live together? like roommates or are you s couple? 😊
Hahaha, we are very good friends and were flatmates for some years. It was great to see Greek culture from an intimate, close perspective.
Oh the agony of hearing a foreigner's accent when reading ancient greek.🤣🤣🤣🤣
The erasmian pronunciation is False and isn't Greek
well...I'm not sure about it
Every single vowel of yours sounds foreign, you need a Greek to pronounce the Erasmian properly. Any Greek from any dialect would do fine.
STOP TO SPEAK JAPANESE
I'm not sure if Chihon is a humble person or an overconfident "I-know-it-all" type of guy. In either case he has a punchable face. 🤷
jesus