WOWOWOW I CANT BELIEVE IT!!! Thank you soooo much for reviewing my Japanese!! I don't believe I'm there quite yet but this was super motivating to hear!!! ありがとうございます！！！相変わらず凄い勉強になりました！！！
Shu, you're waaaay ahead of the game for just three years of study! I think back to my Japanese 301 class long ago, and nobody was anywhere close to that!
His pronunciation is great, I agree Dogen. I live in Sapporo and most of my foreign friends you can tell they're not Japanese, though I'm often confused for Japanese until they see me(myself being foreign here) his pronunciation almost sounds native
For me, a native Japanese speaker, this series is useful for learning both of Japanese and English. You teach me Japanese deeper through foreigner's eyes/ears, which is so interesting. And I thank you all here for having interests in Japan!
1:42 This is a humble nod that I hear far too rarely. To state that "I am capable of helping you improve a skill which you demonstrate better than me" is, in fact, logically coherent, although many think otherwise. Whether an expert or not, I believe it's incredibly important to constructively criticise one another not as "someone who knows better", but as someone with a complimentarily different perspective. This is the kind of comment I would be reserved to give outside the context of philosophy, but you demonstrate an enthos reinforcing level of practical communication that I myself struggle to achieve, and I hope you continue to do so more often.
Wow, I did not expect to learn to give proper feedback when I clicked this video. I am certain that I have come off rude many times when giving feedback. Thank you for your comment, I'll be sure to remember it.
A common mistake that I often recognize is using like "申します" a polite style of Japanese, then using "俺" after it. "俺" is actually only used among friends and family...
Genuine question: is 僕 fine to use as a guy in a more polite/ formal setting? Because I have been doing that and never have been corrected by my Japanese teachers (they are Japanese themselves). It just feels off to say 私... I do realise in a more informal/friend setting I should probably get used to saying 俺, but we don't tend to use that in the course :')
@@r.m.l.5487 For me, if you are a college student that's okay if you use 僕 but if you are older than that I suggest you to use 私 in a work place or somewhere formal. I'd rather say that I prefer men use 私 in a work place because it sounds professional. Although some people intentionally uses 僕 from time to time to give people impression that he's cute/naive, etc. So what I am trying to say here is, it's not if it's correct or wrong but it's what impression you would like to give in a polite/formal setting.
Yes! I'd really like to see this. Most of my friends switch to the English pronunciation when reading Katakana (myself included at times!) and it feels so weird!
First of all, Shū-san's Japanese sounds amazing. I would have thought he must have been Japanese, if I had heard his first few lines without knowing he was a non native speaker. What makes him sound a bit off is some of his word choice as Dogen pointed it out in the video. He started with polite Japanese, but he said "おれの日本語も直して欲しいなって", which cleared up my tiny doubt that he might be a native speaker. In Japanese, how to mention yourself reflects on your personality, and as Dogen says, you have to keep the consistency. 私の日本語 or ぼくの日本語 would be better and sound more polite. However, I repeat it again, his Japanese is so good. Japanese native speakers hardly end sentences by saying です・ます. He perfectly copies that nature, which makes him sound natural.
I listen to a lot of Japanese and people seem to switch back and forth between polite form and casual form all the time. For example, a Japanese person may use the ます form for positive verbs while using ないです or just ない for negative endings. There are also times where a speaker will use ですが・けれども in one sentence and then だけど or simply けど in another
I can't say anything deep unless I see actual situations. However, when native Japanese speakers do the switch, they have convincing reasons, situations or backgrounds even if it is unconscious. In the situation here, Shū-san has respect to Dogen-san. This is his first time talking to Dogen-san, (probably). He started his talk with polite form. That doesn't match "おれの". Staying consistent is safer. My first post was not for nitpicking. His pronunciation is so good that I can't imagine how hard he has worked on it.
You kind of need some confidence to send in a video eh? I feel a lot of people that could really improve from this dont want to be put on display because they think they would embarrass themselves. But look at how long the videos are dogen does on almost proficient people. Imagine the length if he'd have to go through 2 mistakes per sentence
@k k no offense, but you're really bad at picking up sarcasm. My comment = if you're learning the language in a reasonable amount of time (under 5 years) you are actually learning correctly (and probably not LARPing textbooks)
賛成です！I'm going to expand on this comment because I really think it's important for other Japanese learners to know. The pronoun "Ore" is extremely casual and generally should not be used with anyone besides your close friends. If you use it among people with whom you are NOT close, you will likely appear as foolish, rude, or perhaps uneducated. You should simply use Watashi. Boku can also be used. But on a positive note, cheers to Shu-san. His spoken Japanese is crystal clear and easy to understand.
I recommend not to use the 俺 except amongst close friends. And It’s impossible to use 俺 when you speak something with です、ます。 ✖️俺はアメリカ人です。 ○（私は）アメリカ人です。 （ ）なのは、主語が必要としない時があるから。
You can't say ore at work or to people who you don't know. But watashi sounds like old man or politician or president at your company. Woman call myself watashi. Very polite man might say watashi. Some Japanese RUclipsrs say that. But they never say to their friends.
I think you hear too much "ore" 俺 if you're watching anime only. Watch some drama (not tokusatsu) and you will hear it less often. Pay attention when people are speaking to family or close friends, versus when they are speaking in a social or public setting. アニメだけ見てると「俺」が普通に聞こえてきますが実際は違います。ドラマとかも見た方が良いと思います。そういう中で普通の会話と家族や友人との会話を比較してみると勉強になると思います。
I think it's one of the best advice I ever heard through my learning. I like the way you teach and how passionate you are to share your knowledge. I'll gladly subscribe to your channel, thanks for your work.
As a Japanese speaker, the most distinctive part from native speaker in his perfect Japanese is the very first thing that dogen sensei says, mixed polite way and casual way. Sasuga sensei...!
Who else doesn’t or barely know japanese but is very interested in these videos? Always been a fan of japanese culture, language and history. Currently reading The Taiheiki: A Chronicle of Medieval Japan and I love it. Keep up the videos!
0:30 He ends the sentence with この動画を録音しています。録音 means recording but mainly for audio. Technically he is recording his voice, but he's referring the video that is being recorded so 録画 should probably be used instead. If you know the kanji, this shouldn't be too hard to remember.
A few more common exceptions to the 4 mora rule, which are all atamadaka: 今晩 - こんばん - tonight 毎晩 - まいばん - every night 毎日 - まいにち - every day 音楽 - おんがく - music 兄弟 - きょうだい - siblings 結構 - けっこう - 'I'm fine./It's alrigth'
Dōgen, I love the colouring (or is it colouration? Colourisation?) of this series! The quality of the production, and of course the content, makes me very happy. I don't know Japanese, but if I do end up studying it I'll already know so much about pitch accent 😄
When I listened to Shu speaking Japanese, and then he said "Japanese Teacher Grades Your Japanese", I was like "wait, he is an English native speaker? Then he must be native in both languages!". Could not imagine he has studied Japanese for only three years. Bravo! Really impressed! It's a very educational video. Thanks Dogen and Shu!
Wonderful Japanese, goes to show how helpful it is to immerse yourself in native speakers' speech! Also thanks for the free tip, Dōgen-sensei! I can't believe how many words, so many of which are important and common, fall under that rule. SO helpful.
Thank you so much for this explanation! I use anki and colour code for pitch accent and already started noticing this pattern but you basically gave it a name! (I got really irritated when I first learnt the pattern for 先生 and started doubting my theory.)
what helped me personally was thinking of the pitch accent of each word as musical pitch patterns. For example, to me 最高 is just さ at one pitch, followed by a rise and plateau at the い, and 案内 is the same but I drop pitch for the last mora.
I haven't even cared English pitch accent and intonation. My English definitely sounds like a non native speaker. I don't care. They understand me. But when it comes to French, I started French conversation CD from repeating. So I don't need to struggle French pitch accent and intonation. it's hard to get correct pitch accent by studying each words. I assume just repeating each phrase is the key. But I haven't done this for pitch accent. I just wanted to memorize French phrases. I'm not interested in pitch accent. What I need to study is listening English. It's hard and more important.
It's not that there's no stress, but that stress (= foregrounding) is achieved differently in different languages. There are certain acoustic variables available to speakers: mainly duration, frequency (pitch), pitch movement (intonation), and intensity (loudness). In English, duration and intensity foreground syllables. A language like Japanese that employs duration for phonemic purposes (i.e. has vowel length distinctions e.g. 気韻 [=きいん, dignity] vs. 金 [=きん, gold]) will use different phonetic variables to realise stress, such as pitch movement. Hence Dogen's emphasis on pitch accent - it's as critical to correct pronunciation in Japanese as using correct duration/intensity "stress" in English.
That's a favorable cultural trait indeed, and yet I suffered from that a lot during these seven years of learning Japanese, since many Japanese speakers would never correct my pitch-accent, grammar or word choice, unless I make a very very obvious mistake. I always said 予備学校 for an English language prep school and then just recently I learned that the correct way to say this should be 予備校, and even if I say 予備校, people won't really understand what I actually mean, because in Japan there are almost no public universities teaching in English. So, I need to go like 大学入ってから一年英語の勉強をする予備校があるんだけど、、
I want a video of Dogen just staring into the camera and complimenting all of our Japanese. I was starting to feel proud for Shū after hearing his praise. lol
This is something I can't really seem to understand... Very often I hear Japanese people mix casual and formal Japanese in conversation! Just yesterday I was watching two guys go to a 心霊スポット and one of them was using です、ます to talk to the other guy most of the time, but sometime he would say things like そうなんだ or そうだね, or even ask the other guy questions in casual Japanese. I realize the guy in this video should not have done it, it's a completely different context, but while consistency is important - I guess sometimes it's ok to mix them? Does it depend on the relationship between the two people or something?
It's not a problem mixing. I mix it too sometimes. When I'm not 100% confortable to regular Japanese, but at the same time I don't need to use formal... I mix too. But yes , that's a lot about the relationship.
interesting i guess two guys mixed formal way丁寧語 with respect way 敬語 i mean they act in formal way because of TV show which so many unfamiliar people watch but in thier workplace years of work on TV is most important. you must talk in respect way to the person who started to work at TV show even for１ month earlier probably they don't usually talk each other in respect way because of thier relations in the show you watched they try to talk in formal way丁寧語 because of TV show but sometimes they do usual conversation without keeping mind of camera
@@yoshihiromashimo6655 That's a very good point. I also thought maybe they use 丁寧語 because of the video, but normally they talk to each other casually. Still, I feel like it's ok to mix these two sometimes. Even if you're talking to someone formally, but if the talk becomes really exciting for a moment or you want to make a joke or something, I think it's ok to use casual Japanese... I could be wrong though.
The way I've heard it described academically is that desu form is used for the part of the conversation that's related to the social roles that motivated the conversation, but if an utterance strays off topic and is a personal touch then that's when you're most likely to hear intimate forms mix in. I hesitate to give specific examples - I'm nowhere near good enough - but let's say there's a bicycle mechanic who has become friends with a customer. He'll continue to use desu-forms when talking about that customers business, even if many other topics are in plain form.
We mix it. But we don't mix at work. Ore is too casual in this case. Moushimasu is too polite in this case. We know he isn't Japanese. So we don't care that. We don't feel it's rude. But boku wa ～ to i･i･ma･su is natural.
I don't even study Japanese lol but your videos are hecka entertaining and you inspire me to do a deep dive on Spanish phonetics, it being my second language. Keep it up, from a fan back in Seattle
Hi Dogen, i only discovered your channel a few weeks ago, you have really enjoyable content! Regarding pitch accents, I've lived in Japan for 3 and a half years and had no idea that was a thing! From the words you used as examples, luckily it feels like I somewhat picked up the correct pitch accents unintentionally. It really great to know that's a thing so i can be conscious of it, thank you for your service! :)
as a crapshoot idea, this makes me wonder if there are any correspondences to different Chineses' tones, like if it's high/low in the same place like 学生 in Mandarin is rise-high, Cantonese is low-high some are kinda, like 最高/最低 being mid-high in Cantonese 簡単 - rise-high in Cantonese might just be a coincidence though, a lot don't work for the heiban exceptions: 音楽 - high-low in Cantonese 兄弟 - high-low in Cantonese 先生 - high-high in Cantonese (so not a match) 案内 - mid-low in Cantonese 残念 - low-falling, low 給料 - high low 迷惑 - low-falling, low 挨拶 - high/rise, mid 玄関 - low-falling, high 経済 - high-mid
Comprehensive nitpick accent corrections (in addition to what Dogen mentioned) just in case you find it useful: 三年くらい Very faint but it caught my attention the first time around... it sounds a bit like you accented ね instead of く 卒業した後に Faint but it sounds like you descend somewhere before the あ when you should actually rise towards the あ because it’s the sole accent 6ヶ月間 Sounds like you say ろ＼っかげつかん but it should be or ろっかげ＼つかん or ろっかげつ＼かん (which sound nearly the same due to つ being devoiced). Note that 6ヶ月 alone is ろっか＼げつ though. 間 is basically ＼かん and overrides the accent of the thing before it. 帰ってきたら Faint/acceptable but it’d be better to accent the initial か 教科書 Your う sounds a tiny bit short, which makes the accent on か harder to hear although it does seem to be in the right place 使ったことがなくて You say つか＼ったことが but it should be つかったこと＼がな＼くて 間違ってる Faint/acceptable, but just in case: it should be accented on が To be clear, these are extreme nitpicks and some are borderline unnoticable. As Dogen mentioned your pronunciation is fantastic, which is why I felt like leaving a nitpick comment just in case you want to take it to the next level!
Actually, I was hoping the series to be nitpicky like your comments. Why bother correcting someone who is already at an above-average level, when there are plenty of beginners that need help to get their accents right early on. Unfortunately, the series seems to just be excerpts from his patreon, with the submissions just being examples to help the presentation.
I'm a native Japanese speaker. シュウさんの日本語は素晴らしいです。でも細かい事を言えば、Dogen先生に対して、時々「俺」を使うのは違和感を感じます。「俺」を使う時は家族・恋人・友達・会社の親しい部下ぐらいだと思います。だからここでは「僕」もしくは「私」が適切ですね。formalとinformalの使い分けが課題ですね。でも全体的に見て彼の日本語はほぼ完璧だし、３年でこのレベルに到達するのは信じられない。
I think there is one more thing to add which is that he said 俺(おれ) as a first person. But if you wanna be generally polite, I recommend that you use 私(わたしorわたくし). Ah everyone here knows it already huh.
A question about the 4-mora words almost always being heiban. You said it applies to 2-kanji, 4-mora words, but what about single-kanji, 4-mora words? Words like 侍（さむらい）and 紫（むらさき）come to mind. Are these words also heiban? If so, is it also because of the 4-mora rule or just coincidental?
Thanks, that was really useful. You were so cool even back then, Dogen. I wish you did more free stuff like this, because channel is all about memes today. I like the background, too. You are genius of proper light position and vibes on your camera frame. English is actually not my native language, if you or even just someone interested - then you could know that im russian 🇷🇺 guy, in order to notice some pattern that shows itself up. Although there is no Japanese at my comment, haha. I barely speak it yet, despite liking how i can mimic some sounds. Hope, i will get back to my comment at future.
On a totally unrelated matter, If something were to happen to that blue shirt I would lose it. Dogen without the iconic blue shirt?! How is that even gonna work? (Also, you’re an amazing teacher. Wish you the best.)
His pronunciation is great, I agree Dogen. I live in Sapporo and most of my foreign friends you can tell they're not Japanese, though I'm often confused for Japanese until they see me(myself being foreign here) his pronunciation almost sounds native
I badly wanna learn a third language. Ive started Japanese, French and Indonesian in the past but I've stopped all of them after some months. I lose the motivation, kudos to all peeps who fight hard!
Japanese pitch-accent and pronunciation lessons: www.patreon.com/dogen
WOWOWOW I CANT BELIEVE IT!!! Thank you soooo much for reviewing my Japanese!! I don't believe I'm there quite yet but this was super motivating to hear!!! ありがとうございます！！！相変わらず凄い勉強になりました！！！
Shweyin Than you’re so sexy. I love you.
@@jamyfu6464 やれやれだぜ
You got an ENTIRE episode! You are so lucky!!! Oh, and well done btw.
Shu, you're waaaay ahead of the game for just three years of study! I think back to my Japanese 301 class long ago, and nobody was anywhere close to that!
His pronunciation is great, I agree Dogen. I live in Sapporo and most of my foreign friends you can tell they're not Japanese, though I'm often confused for Japanese until they see me(myself being foreign here)
his pronunciation almost sounds native
For me, a native Japanese speaker, this series is useful for learning both of Japanese and English. You teach me Japanese deeper through foreigner's eyes/ears, which is so interesting. And I thank you all here for having interests in Japan!
Yes, I love 😘😘❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ Japanese society and I am currently learning Japanese.
i feel the same about english. anytime its a secondary language, I'm love to let them use it just to see how they've interpreted it
日本人でもよくわかっていない
1:42 This is a humble nod that I hear far too rarely. To state that "I am capable of helping you improve a skill which you demonstrate better than me" is, in fact, logically coherent, although many think otherwise. Whether an expert or not, I believe it's incredibly important to constructively criticise one another not as "someone who knows better", but as someone with a complimentarily different perspective. This is the kind of comment I would be reserved to give outside the context of philosophy, but you demonstrate an enthos reinforcing level of practical communication that I myself struggle to achieve, and I hope you continue to do so more often.
Wow, I did not expect to learn to give proper feedback when I clicked this video. I am certain that I have come off rude many times when giving feedback. Thank you for your comment, I'll be sure to remember it.
A common mistake that I often recognize is using like "申します" a polite style of Japanese, then using "俺" after it.
"俺" is actually only used among friends and family...
Genuine question: is 僕 fine to use as a guy in a more polite/ formal setting? Because I have been doing that and never have been corrected by my Japanese teachers (they are Japanese themselves). It just feels off to say 私... I do realise in a more informal/friend setting I should probably get used to saying 俺, but we don't tend to use that in the course :')
@@r.m.l.5487 For me, if you are a college student that's okay if you use 僕 but if you are older than that I suggest you to use 私 in a work place or somewhere formal. I'd rather say that I prefer men use 私 in a work place because it sounds professional. Although some people intentionally uses 僕 from time to time to give people impression that he's cute/naive, etc.
So what I am trying to say here is, it's not if it's correct or wrong but it's what impression you would like to give in a polite/formal setting.
@@r.m.l.5487 僕 is decently formal, you need to be aware of the pitch accent though, theres a immature way to say it, and a normal way
Can you grade the hardest pronunciation in Japanese next episode ...
Katakana English
Yes! I'd really like to see this. Most of my friends switch to the English pronunciation when reading Katakana (myself included at times!) and it feels so weird!
@@shellybananas sometimes I look at the katakana, read it out, and spend a minute figuring out what it's supposed to be in English
ナイスアイデア❗
グレート
@@FunkyBukkyo what the hell is that supposed to mean? grit? greet?
First of all, Shū-san's Japanese sounds amazing. I would have thought he must have been Japanese, if I had heard his first few lines without knowing he was a non native speaker. What makes him sound a bit off is some of his word choice as Dogen pointed it out in the video. He started with polite Japanese, but he said "おれの日本語も直して欲しいなって", which cleared up my tiny doubt that he might be a native speaker. In Japanese, how to mention yourself reflects on your personality, and as Dogen says, you have to keep the consistency. 私の日本語 or ぼくの日本語 would be better and sound more polite.
However, I repeat it again, his Japanese is so good. Japanese native speakers hardly end sentences by saying です・ます. He perfectly copies that nature, which makes him sound natural.
I listen to a lot of Japanese and people seem to switch back and forth between polite form and casual form all the time. For example, a Japanese person may use the ます form for positive verbs while using ないです or just ない for negative endings. There are also times where a speaker will use ですが・けれども in one sentence and then だけど or simply けど in another
I can't say anything deep unless I see actual situations. However, when native Japanese speakers do the switch, they have convincing reasons, situations or backgrounds even if it is unconscious. In the situation here, Shū-san has respect to Dogen-san. This is his first time talking to Dogen-san, (probably). He started his talk with polite form. That doesn't match "おれの". Staying consistent is safer.
My first post was not for nitpicking. His pronunciation is so good that I can't imagine how hard he has worked on it.
I'm not him. But
ごらんになりましたか？is not strange at all. But if you are close to your boss, it might be too polite.
they don't useです?? Then what DO they use? I was taught to use that to end sentences??
@@princessthyemis just leave it out like in "これは私のパソコン" where u would be taught to put です at the end.
地方のなまりのある日本人でも、このくらいのアクセントの人はたくさんいるので、ほとんど気になりませんでした！
「俺」の使い方はたしかに注意が必要ですが、しゅうさんは独り言の再現として「俺」を使い、その後のどうげんさんへのメッセージの主語は「僕」に戻っていたので、この場合は適切な使用であり、むしろその切り替えが上手だと思いました。
文脈に応じて意識してアクセントを使い分けている日本語学習者の皆さんを尊敬します！
I wonder how I can compliment people's Japanese without saying 上手 when they're really really good assuming they're watching Dogen san's videos lol
well you could add 凄く or 素晴らしい or sum
K, I will say 日本語うんんんんんんんま！！then
Just say how long have you been learning Japanese
え、ヨーコさんだ！
Don’t mention it , it’s just annoying. Beat praise you can get if people talk back to you like they talk to anyone else
3年でこのレベルは凄すぎる...
すごいのは間違いないけど、単純に言うと勉強方法の選び方が賢い。母語話者を真似することが一番
習うより慣れろ
@@nomongosinthaworld その通り
3年でここまで上手くなるのか……凄すぎる😱
I'm a Japanese teacher.
His pronunciation is good and very casual.
``おれ``は使う場面気をつけてくださいね〜
I'm starting to think these people coming to get critiqued are actually just flexing.
Definitely and im sure the time that they have been studying Japanese isn’t right all the time as well .
You kind of need some confidence to send in a video eh?
I feel a lot of people that could really improve from this dont want to be put on display because they think they would embarrass themselves.
But look at how long the videos are dogen does on almost proficient people. Imagine the length if he'd have to go through 2 mistakes per sentence
@k k lmao. if you're proficient in under 5 years you're definitely lying and not just actually learning the language properly
@k k no offense, but you're really bad at picking up sarcasm.
My comment = if you're learning the language in a reasonable amount of time (under 5 years) you are actually learning correctly (and probably not LARPing textbooks)
Also, my method - MIA, doesn't suck. You should check it out. 😉
ええ？！日本語ネイティブじゃないの？っていうくらいうまいですね。びっくり！
私も言語学習がんばります。励みになりました。
しゅうさんの日本語はほぼ完ぺきですね！ ところで私は男性が自分のことを「俺」というのが非常に気になります。丁寧な言葉使いをするときは「僕」か「私（わたし／わたくし」とすべきです。最近日本人でもふさわしくない状況で「俺」を使う人が多いので、外国の人が間違えるのは無理もありませんが、目上の人や良く知らない人の前では気を付けた方がいいと思います。
賛成です！I'm going to expand on this comment because I really think it's important for other Japanese learners to know. The pronoun "Ore" is extremely casual and generally should not be used with anyone besides your close friends. If you use it among people with whom you are NOT close, you will likely appear as foolish, rude, or perhaps uneducated. You should simply use Watashi. Boku can also be used.
But on a positive note, cheers to Shu-san. His spoken Japanese is crystal clear and easy to understand.
I recommend not to use the 俺 except amongst close friends.
And It’s impossible to use 俺 when you speak something with です、ます。
✖️俺はアメリカ人です。
○（私は）アメリカ人です。
（ ）なのは、主語が必要としない時があるから。
our minister of finance can be foolish rude and uneducated
he describe himself as 俺 in our parliament.
I think it sounds like just bossy
You can't say ore at work or to people who you don't know. But watashi sounds like old man or politician or president at your company. Woman call myself watashi. Very polite man might say watashi. Some Japanese RUclipsrs say that. But they never say to their friends.
I think you hear too much "ore" 俺 if you're watching anime only. Watch some drama (not tokusatsu) and you will hear it less often. Pay attention when people are speaking to family or close friends, versus when they are speaking in a social or public setting.
アニメだけ見てると「俺」が普通に聞こえてきますが実際は違います。ドラマとかも見た方が良いと思います。そういう中で普通の会話と家族や友人との会話を比較してみると勉強になると思います。
子供の頃少年ジャンプの新刊号が出る日を楽しみにしていた気持ちでこのチャンネルを見ている
He's been studying for only 3 years?? He's so good! I need to speak more :(
More common exceptions to the rule:
両親 (りょうしん) - 頭高 (1)
人生 (じんせい) - 頭高 (1)
半分 (はんぶん) - 中高 (3)
靴下 (くつした) - 中高 (2)
海外 (かいがい) - 頭高 (1)
商人 (しょうにん) - 頭高 (1)
あとはしゅうさん、nihongoの発音もDogenさんが初めに例に出している学校、銀行などと同じピッチ？だと更に上手に感じます！日本人としてはこんなに細かい規則があるなんて知らずに話していたので外国人の方が日本語を学ぶのって本当に難しいんだなと思います。皆さん頑張って下さい！
そしてこう言う動画の英語版も見てみたいなーなんて。ここは日本語を学ぶ方のチャンネルだからか難しいですね💦
I think it's one of the best advice I ever heard through my learning.
I like the way you teach and how passionate you are to share your knowledge.
I'll gladly subscribe to your channel, thanks for your work.
正直日本に何年も住んでる外国出身の方より全然上手
ちょっと日本語忘れかけてる日本人みたいな感じ。His Japanese is excellent!!
わかる
3年でこれはやばいわw
子供の頃から日本語聞いてるからだな
Sensei, you’re so humble. Thank you for sharing this!
日本語のアクセントは外国の方からすると難しいかも知れませんね。
日本人同士でも出身地や世代によって違う場合もありますし、「音楽」と「音楽室」といったように複合語になるとアクセントが変わる場合もありますし…
日本語うますぎてびっくり、友達と話してる感じがする！
Hellotalk is actually absolutely the best thing for beginners. I've learned most of my vocabulary and also pronunciations from it.
自動字幕をつけて英語の勉強に使わせていただいております。
I can't thank you enough Dogen San, this series is so helpful and fun to watch
As a Japanese speaker, the most distinctive part from native speaker in his perfect Japanese is the very first thing that dogen sensei says, mixed polite way and casual way. Sasuga sensei...!
Who else doesn’t or barely know japanese but is very interested in these videos?
Always been a fan of japanese culture, language and history. Currently reading
The Taiheiki: A Chronicle of Medieval Japan and I love it.
Keep up the videos!
0:30 He ends the sentence with この動画を録音しています。録音 means recording but mainly for audio. Technically he is recording his voice, but he's referring the video that is being recorded so 録画 should probably be used instead. If you know the kanji, this shouldn't be too hard to remember.
A few more common exceptions to the 4 mora rule, which are all atamadaka:
今晩 -
こんばん - tonight
毎晩
- まいばん - every night
毎日
- まいにち - every day
音楽 - おんがく - music
兄弟 - きょうだい - siblings
結構 - けっこう - 'I'm fine./It's alrigth'
www.weblio.jp/content/%E6%AF%8E%E6%97%A5 Adverbial usage of 毎日 can be Heiban.
Do you know of any example sentences?
I wouldn’t believe it’s really you, if I see you on HelloTalk😏
Like the one saying “本物？lol” at 10:40
I’ve used HelloTalk before and I think i’ll use them again. Very helpful advice on there. Also, thanks for the education, Dogen!
DOGENさん、するどいです。
出だしが「申します」でしたね。
「謙譲語を使いこなすんだ。すごい」と引き込まれたところに、
「おれ」とかの表現で「おやおや」と、不思議な感じがして
注意がそちらに移りましたね
I am so glad to have this level of insight whilst beginning my solo study of Japanese. It is helping me avoid bad habits from occurring.
hows it going?
しゅーさんの日本語についてですが、確かに厳しい目で見ればまだいろいろと不自然な点があるのですが、発声や発音、またおそらく聞き取りに関しても基礎がしっかりしていることが明らかなので、あとは意識して微修正を積み重ねていけばよいという段階かと思います。
ただアメリカに住みながらこの(特に話すことにおいて)｢微修正を積み重ねる｣というのは結構大変なことだとは思うのですが、しゅーさんは動画の中で日本人の友達がいると言っていたので、私からの1つの提案としてはその友達に｢本当に小さなことでもいいから自分の言った日本語がほんの少しでも(用法でも発音でも)ネイティブの日本人の日本語と違っていたらすぐに指摘してくれ｣と頼んでみるのがいいと思います。
しゅーさんとその友達にそれなりの信頼関係があるのならいろいろと指摘してくれるはずなので、それをメモって修正を重ねていけばまだまだ上達できるかと思います。
don't hesitate to use english if you want to explain something
This video had the most relevant and probably the most useful sponsors segment in the history of RUclips. Couldn't skip even 1 second of the video.
Dogen, you should call this "The Sempai Notices Me Series"
Me hearing this, wait どうげん is also four 🤔 Dogen can be added to the list
Dōgen, I love the colouring (or is it colouration? Colourisation?) of this series! The quality of the production, and of course the content, makes me very happy. I don't know Japanese, but if I do end up studying it I'll already know so much about pitch accent 😄
最初の人日本語上手すぎやろ、すげえな。
This is so helpful thanks Dogen.
めちゃめちゃ上手いです。
ur videos are so aesthetically pleasing
I really wish he did more of these videos.
丁寧に話すときは男性でも「私」がいいと思います。
『俺の日本語』というのはカジュアルすぎます。
When I listened to Shu speaking Japanese, and then he said "Japanese Teacher Grades Your Japanese", I was like "wait, he is an English native speaker? Then he must be native in both languages!". Could not imagine he has studied Japanese for only three years. Bravo! Really impressed! It's a very educational video. Thanks Dogen and Shu!
外国人の言う「日本語」、だいたい「に→ほ↑ん↓ご」みたいに「ん」で下がりがちですね。自然には「ほ」で上がった後そのままの高さです。
逆に日本語上手いですねと言われないレベル
最初「俺は」って言って、次に「僕は」も使っていたけれど。「俺は」は友達同士でもスゴイ仲良くてカジュアルに使うから。初対面の人や目上の人と話す時は、男性も「私は」が良いと思うよ🧖😉
Wonderful Japanese, goes to show how helpful it is to immerse yourself in native speakers' speech!
Also thanks for the free tip, Dōgen-sensei! I can't believe how many words, so many of which are important and common, fall under that rule. SO helpful.
Thank you so much for this explanation! I use anki and colour code for pitch accent and already started noticing this pattern but you basically gave it a name! (I got really irritated when I first learnt the pattern for 先生 and started doubting my theory.)
It's so hard for me to imagine saying a word with no accent having grown up with a language with as strong a stress-accent as English
When I learned English at school, it was so hard for me to remember many words with accent. So we’re faced with the same difficulty.
what helped me personally was thinking of the pitch accent of each word as musical pitch patterns. For example, to me 最高 is just さ at one pitch, followed by a rise and plateau at the い, and 案内 is the same but I drop pitch for the last mora.
I haven't even cared English pitch accent and intonation. My English definitely sounds like a non native speaker. I don't care. They understand me.
But when it comes to French, I started French conversation CD from repeating. So I don't need to struggle French pitch accent and intonation. it's hard to get correct pitch accent by studying each words. I assume just repeating each phrase is the key. But I haven't done this for pitch accent. I just wanted to memorize French phrases. I'm not interested in pitch accent. What I need to study is listening English. It's hard and more important.
Shashou
I'm very beginner of French. Maybe I meant intonation. Thank you for your information.
It's not that there's no stress, but that stress (= foregrounding) is achieved differently in different languages. There are certain acoustic variables available to speakers: mainly duration, frequency (pitch), pitch movement (intonation), and intensity (loudness). In English, duration and intensity foreground syllables. A language like Japanese that employs duration for phonemic purposes (i.e. has vowel length distinctions e.g. 気韻 [=きいん, dignity] vs. 金 [=きん, gold]) will use different phonetic variables to realise stress, such as pitch movement. Hence Dogen's emphasis on pitch accent - it's as critical to correct pronunciation in Japanese as using correct duration/intensity "stress" in English.
Nobody can escape the とても上手です, not even in a learning app.
That's a favorable cultural trait indeed, and yet I suffered from that a lot during these seven years of learning Japanese, since many Japanese speakers would never correct my pitch-accent, grammar or word choice, unless I make a very very obvious mistake.
I always said 予備学校 for an English language prep school and then just recently I learned that the correct way to say this should be 予備校, and even if I say 予備校, people won't really understand what I actually mean, because in Japan there are almost no public universities teaching in English. So, I need to go like 大学入ってから一年英語の勉強をする予備校があるんだけど、、
this is next level advice thanks man.
普通に発音とかうますぎて日本人だと思っちゃう
his japanese is fantastic!! i've not heard anyone achieve this in 3 years
omg lang-8, brings back so much memories!!! got me through a lot of my university days lol
Even better lighting; congratulations on the continuous improvement!
Dogen, you’ve got the best language channel on RUclips, by far!
文脈とかで発音変わるの普段は自然にやってるけど論理的に考えながら喋ると頭おかしくなりそうや。
VERY HELPFUL!
“おんがく”とかの鼻濁音できないんだよなぁ私。。。中学校の頃の音楽の先生が秋田出身で、鼻濁音に関して知ってる人だったから、助詞のがも合唱では鼻濁音で歌いましょうって教えられた。未だにできないからDogenさんのおんがくの発音すげーってなる😭
That Hellotalk guy be stealing all of Dogen's patreons now
I’m glad I stumbled on this video as a beginner.
this was extremely useful, thanks!!!!!
I want a video of Dogen just staring into the camera and complimenting all of our Japanese. I was starting to feel proud for Shū after hearing his praise. lol
This is something I can't really seem to understand...
Very often I hear Japanese people mix casual and formal Japanese in conversation! Just yesterday I was watching two guys go to a 心霊スポット and one of them was using です、ます to talk to the other guy most of the time, but sometime he would say things like そうなんだ or そうだね, or even ask the other guy questions in casual Japanese. I realize the guy in this video should not have done it, it's a completely different context, but while consistency is important - I guess sometimes it's ok to mix them? Does it depend on the relationship between the two people or something?
It's not a problem mixing.
I mix it too sometimes. When I'm not 100% confortable to regular Japanese, but at the same time I don't need to use formal... I mix too.
But yes , that's a lot about the relationship.
interesting
i guess two guys mixed formal way丁寧語 with respect way 敬語
i mean they act in formal way because of TV show which so many unfamiliar people watch
but in thier workplace years of work on TV is most important.
you must talk in respect way to the person who started to work at TV show even for１ month earlier
probably they don't usually talk each other in respect way because of thier relations
in the show you watched
they try to talk in formal way丁寧語 because of TV show
but sometimes they do usual conversation without keeping mind of camera
@@yoshihiromashimo6655 That's a very good point. I also thought maybe they use 丁寧語 because of the video, but normally they talk to each other casually. Still, I feel like it's ok to mix these two sometimes. Even if you're talking to someone formally, but if the talk becomes really exciting for a moment or you want to make a joke or something, I think it's ok to use casual Japanese... I could be wrong though.
The way I've heard it described academically is that desu form is used for the part of the conversation that's related to the social roles that motivated the conversation, but if an utterance strays off topic and is a personal touch then that's when you're most likely to hear intimate forms mix in.
I hesitate to give specific examples - I'm nowhere near good enough - but let's say there's a bicycle mechanic who has become friends with a customer. He'll continue to use desu-forms when talking about that customers business, even if many other topics are in plain form.
We mix it. But we don't mix at work. Ore is too casual in this case. Moushimasu is too polite in this case. We know he isn't Japanese. So we don't care that. We don't feel it's rude. But boku wa ～ to i･i･ma･su is natural.
So much value in this video. Thank you for sharing!
I don't even study Japanese lol but your videos are hecka entertaining and you inspire me to do a deep dive on Spanish phonetics, it being my second language. Keep it up, from a fan back in Seattle
Hi Dogen, i only discovered your channel a few weeks ago, you have really enjoyable content!
Regarding pitch accents, I've lived in Japan for 3 and a half years and had no idea that was a thing! From the words you used as examples, luckily it feels like I somewhat picked up the correct pitch accents unintentionally.
It really great to know that's a thing so i can be conscious of it, thank you for your service! :)
as a crapshoot idea, this makes me wonder if there are any correspondences to different Chineses' tones, like if it's high/low in the same place
like 学生 in Mandarin is rise-high, Cantonese is low-high
some are kinda, like 最高/最低 being mid-high in Cantonese
簡単 - rise-high in Cantonese
might just be a coincidence though, a lot don't work
for the heiban exceptions:
音楽 - high-low in Cantonese
兄弟 - high-low in Cantonese
先生 - high-high in Cantonese (so not a match)
案内 - mid-low in Cantonese
残念 - low-falling, low
給料 - high low
迷惑 - low-falling, low
挨拶 - high/rise, mid
玄関 - low-falling, high
経済 - high-mid
Thank you!
日本人かと思いました。なんで日本人に日本語の採点してるのかわかりませんでした。でも途中から「あれっ？」って思ってきたかな。特に話す途中で「ahh」ってよく言ってるのが日本人とちょっと違うなっていうのとどうげんさんが指摘された点、アクセントですかね。敬語に関しては最初だけ「～と申します」は比較的言うので特に気にならなかったです。
どうげんさんも凄く日本語、特に語彙は凄く豊富でアクセントやイントネーション、発音も上手いんですが、４文字の名詞を聞いた時「がくせいgakusei」「けいざいkeizai」などの「a」と「i」の発音が aがcome kˈʌmのa、「i」がit の「i」に聞こえました。どっちも日本人が苦手な発音ですね。でも日本語の教え方は超上手いですよー。
Wow! The first video I found where you speak English! 😁 great video!
wow, this makes so much sense. ive always pronounced it right but i never caught the pattern!
I studied Japanese for 10 years and no-one ever explained this to me, thank you!
Comprehensive nitpick accent corrections (in addition to what Dogen mentioned) just in case you find it useful:
三年くらい Very faint but it caught my attention the first time around... it sounds a bit like you accented ね instead of く
卒業した後に Faint but it sounds like you descend somewhere before the あ when you should actually rise towards the あ because it’s the sole accent
6ヶ月間 Sounds like you say ろ＼っかげつかん but it should be or ろっかげ＼つかん or ろっかげつ＼かん (which sound nearly the same due to つ being devoiced). Note that 6ヶ月 alone is ろっか＼げつ though. 間 is basically ＼かん and overrides the accent of the thing before it.
帰ってきたら Faint/acceptable but it’d be better to accent the initial か
教科書 Your う sounds a tiny bit short, which makes the accent on か harder to hear although it does seem to be in the right place
使ったことがなくて You say つか＼ったことが but it should be つかったこと＼がな＼くて
間違ってる Faint/acceptable, but just in case: it should be accented on が
To be clear, these are extreme nitpicks and some are borderline unnoticable. As Dogen mentioned your pronunciation is fantastic, which is why I felt like leaving a nitpick comment just in case you want to take it to the next level!
Actually, I was hoping the series to be nitpicky like your comments. Why bother correcting someone who is already at an above-average level, when there are plenty of beginners that need help to get their accents right early on.
Unfortunately, the series seems to just be excerpts from his patreon, with the submissions just being examples to help the presentation.
Marc Panther I think Dogen’s probably trying to not be too harsh. Going really hard on the corrections here can destroy people’s confidence sometimes.
敬語は難しいですよね。。
発音も、九州はどんな言葉も頭高になる傾向は強いですが、関東は平板が多い傾向ですしね。もしかしたら、その外国の方がどの地方に行きたいかに合わせて、イントネーションを添削したほうが良いかもですね。
Another mistake I think I found was when he pronounces 小さいころから「ずっと↓」 , but his pronunciation and the way he expresses his thoughts is really good!
シュウさん、日本語お上手ですね！たった３年でここまでできるなんて凄いです
「にほんご(日本語)」を中高型で発音されていることだけが気になりました。
「日本語」は中高型(遮断機、ジョバンニ、御三家、破廉恥、ミサンガ、モモンガ、アレンジ、阿寒湖、お天気、etc)の仲間ではなく、
平板型(おしんこ、五反田、お転婆、クリンチ、道産子、かばん語、etc)の仲間です！
not「今日行く」、but 「教育」。
(追伸)
「俺」は、casual な言い方であって、formal な局面では使わない方が良い、ということは正しいと思う。
しかし、必ずしも rude な態度を表わしているとは言えない場合もあると思う。
ただ単に自分自身( myself )を指しているだけのこともあれば、むしろ「へりくだる( humble )心」があって、
「俺」という場合もあるからである。
Shweyin Than さんは、(俺の日本語の直していただきたい)と言っているのであって、
それは実質的には何人も害してはいない(無礼を働いているわけではない)。
「俺」を無礼な態度と決めつけるコメントをネット上で見るたびに「？」と思うことがあったので、私の考えをここに書いた。
個人的には、最初「申し上げた」のに「俺」とか「お前」って言われるのは結構びっくりする🤔
I'm a native Japanese speaker. シュウさんの日本語は素晴らしいです。でも細かい事を言えば、Dogen先生に対して、時々「俺」を使うのは違和感を感じます。「俺」を使う時は家族・恋人・友達・会社の親しい部下ぐらいだと思います。だからここでは「僕」もしくは「私」が適切ですね。formalとinformalの使い分けが課題ですね。でも全体的に見て彼の日本語はほぼ完璧だし、３年でこのレベルに到達するのは信じられない。
and now Dogen is going to have a lot of followers also on Hello Talk (me included)
Amazing
I think there is one more thing to add which is that he said 俺(おれ) as a first person. But if you wanna be generally polite, I recommend that you use 私(わたしorわたくし).
Ah everyone here knows it already huh.
i only learned recently that japanese has tones. for the past 10 years ive been "studying" ive probably been sounding like a true fool, lol
A question about the 4-mora words almost always being heiban. You said it applies to 2-kanji, 4-mora words, but what about single-kanji, 4-mora words? Words like 侍（さむらい）and 紫（むらさき）come to mind. Are these words also heiban? If so, is it also because of the 4-mora rule or just coincidental?
Thanks, that was really useful. You were so cool even back then, Dogen. I wish you did more free stuff like this, because channel is all about memes today.
I like the background, too. You are genius of proper light position and vibes on your camera frame.
English is actually not my native language, if you or even just someone interested - then you could know that im russian 🇷🇺 guy, in order to notice some pattern that shows itself up.
Although there is no Japanese at my comment, haha. I barely speak it yet, despite liking how i can mimic some sounds. Hope, i will get back to my comment at future.
Drink a shot every time Dogen says "wonderful start" or "fantastic place"
This is a wonderful start! Your pitch accent though...
"you're gunna be in amazing shape" - dōgen in previous videos
On a totally unrelated matter, If something were to happen to that blue shirt I would lose it. Dogen without the iconic blue shirt?! How is that even gonna work?
(Also, you’re an amazing teacher. Wish you the best.)
Thank you to show us this amazing world of the japonese, my english is not very good, because i'm from Brasil. Thanks for your job
I can't tell how old Dogen's videos actually are.. they look old but is new.. some look new but is old..
2:38 Exactly. It was so weird. (in terms of speaking naturally)
His pronunciation is great, I agree Dogen. I live in Sapporo and most of my foreign friends you can tell they're not Japanese, though I'm often confused for Japanese until they see me(myself being foreign here)
his pronunciation almost sounds native
I badly wanna learn a third language. Ive started Japanese, French and Indonesian in the past but I've stopped all of them after some months. I lose the motivation, kudos to all peeps who fight hard!
HelloTalk便利そう!!日本人でもあんま使わない語彙って発音がわからなかったりするから、外国人のフリして「〇〇の発音がわからないよ〜」って投稿すれば教えてもらえるよね。
いつも中高アクセントで発音していた「大根」が、標準語では平板アクセントなのだと、つい最近知ったばかりです（＾＾；
「大根」と同じように中高アクセントで発音している「白菜」は、標準語だとどうなんだろう？
訛りはないつもりでいたのですが、訛ってたんだなあ・・・（＾＾；
白菜は標準語だと中高アクセントで合ってると思います！🌟
@@sara-em9lm ありがとうございます。
大根の一件で、いろいろ自信がなくなってました（＾＾；
In Kansai accent, 先生 is same as 音楽 やで
8:14 *挨拶（あいさつ) as in a greeting :)