65 a plans examiner that was just laid these on my lap. Thank you, and my father was a teacher until he was 82. Best teacher I've ever seen. You are right there with him. Well done.
It may be listed but backstabbing or speedwiring is the number one cause of service calls in my lifetime. Over 44 years and I've done all the emergency calls in ever shop I've worked for. I put the connections right up there with aluminum...may even higher.
Mr. Holt, Wyoming master electrician here. Been on a hiatus for about 3 years, and I'm brushing up using your videos. Your videos helped me immensely when I passed my master's test with an 85 on the first try. I'm pretty rusty right now, so I'm thinking about getting your book on understanding the code to get me back up to speed.
Mike I think using a 20 amp outlet it’s important because that means I can look and see the wire is at least 12/2 which is safer for any of my work tools and don’t have to worry about popping the breaker from overheating
Thank you Mike for the videos you make. I used the exam preparation videos you made, and thanks to those videos and studying. I got my Journeyman's license, on the first try, 3 years ago. I search for your videos to feed off your knowledge.
Duplex homes can be a big issue with only 200 coming in feeding into 2 100-amp breaker boxes if they rely on baseboard and forced air wall heaters. 2 stoves, 2 dryers, 2 water heaters etc. it adds up like a grocery bill
You just refresh my mind. Now I know how good of teacher I did have. He explained me exactly what you explaining now . And yes is not easy to understand but if you practice it gets easier. He actually used your books to teach combined with the code book. He respected you a lot but he found a few mistakes in your books . This was a certification test that I took. Thank you sir I really like your videos
I believe the code needs a go over just for greater clarity. As you pointed out in this video seems some code articles could be deleted or re written to refer to another article.
Those conductors can handle way more current they are rated at! Power company runs 4/0 to a 400 amp service! NEC requires much higher. So using the 310.12 chart is good. No reason to change it. God Bless!
Mike I think we need a go/no go inspection checklist. There is no reason I should fail an inspection on my 100 amp panel upgrade to 400 amp with 2 200 and inside 200 amp subpanel because I didn’t put a piece of black tape on the hot water tank double pole breaker white wire on my inside 200amp subpanel. Everything was going well until he asked me who did the work and I said I did! I immediately pulled out my tape, he said I’m not going to stand here while you fix it! Tell me what safety is that really violating that would put someone’s life at risk to fail an inspection. When the panel cover would hide the piece of black tape, and…. Double pole breaker ding ding ding!
Can you tell I’m angry about the sexiest discrimination! It’s BS and not the first time I’ve had trouble it’s constant and ongoing so please we need a go/ no go aka failure NEC inspectors checklist.
Hello, Mr. Mike i am still waiting for a video about Neutro, you stated that you were going to do a hole video about neutro sizing that can be smaller than the ungrounded conductor. Thanks a lot. God bless you.
Excelente trabajo y aporte, buen Mike. Excelente aplicación de la conexión Inversa o Reversible en el Minuto 17:03; me gustaría saber más al respecto de ésa conexión. please .😻👍
P.S. got censored on your latest short was nothing but a nice thing to say I don’t understand why I said God Speed. You can’t put a 15A dedicated outlet on a 20A circuit was a test question
@@MikeHoltNEC no don’t be, it’s a speculation I posted the comment and then in vanished. It looks like you where dirt biking or mountain biking. The forests of Santa Fe. I don’t think it is something to dig into could be on my end. All good just came back never reposted
I think the reason is because it's a short run and is the same as a pigtail..... And I'm pretty sure code is overkill..... They know the wire can handle more than it's rated for
Per NEC a 15 amp receptacle is code on a 20 amp circuit at least one of the suburbs of Chicago require a 20 amp receptacle on all 20 amp circuits. The only equipment I have seen with a 20 amp 120vac plug is an Air conditioner and a stacked washer and dryer
Mike, thank you for all the great videos. If I may, one advice is if you have someone translate and have your videos available in Spanish audio, you will make a fortune! Just take a look at any job site in the U.S. and compare the ratio of Spanish speaking electricians to any other single language, including English. God bless
I feel that electricians is in the US, need to learn how to speak, read, and write in English. So for that matter we don't have any plans to translated any of our products into Spanish.
You said you can't run a bunch of wires down a 2" pipe to a panel. But you can if it's 24" or less and secured at the top within 8" of entering the pipe
Michael, please let me know where in the video you 'think' I made that statement; I'm sure I never did. But to be clear, you can never run a bunch of "cables" down a 2" concealed raceway to a panel, except as permitted by 312.5(C).
I have a 30 KW generator and I have a 50 amp breaker on it it used to be three phase and that's what was on it and I can run my whole house on a 50 amp breaker but I do have coming three art coming into the main the feeder
Because a 200 amp wire will have no issues at all with 225 amps. The world's dwellings are not suffering from a massive epidemic of loss because you used kcmil 500 to handle 400 amps with a wire rated at 380 at 75c. They just aren't.
Why is the neutral considered unbalanced when it's still a current carrying conductor the only difference Is (it's bonded to earth and typical the voltage.)? And what if your panel is just slapped full of single pole 20s the neutral would need to be bigger than the phase conductor right?the neutral is being used in every case so wouldn't it be receiving more load then and one phase since the phases are alternate between breakers but the neutral is used for every one? What am I missing?
i don't think you should bother adding AL values. I always assume CU and just adjust for AL. But you could put 'CU' after all sizes i guess. too much work? then people will get confused on old docs/videos
I have been looking for the transition video that was supposed to be dated on may 27 the wednesday after .You said the video would be about tarrier transitions of how to advance int he trades .
@@MikeHoltNEC Could be wrong but I also thought it was stated you didn't think they even made such a thing as 20A GFCIs, (so its more reason to think a 15A recep would be fine on an a 20A line.) So since there are such things, are they also identical except for the T slot? (wondering if the internal electronics would be different) Thanks!
I don’t know sir but why we have to discuss services conductors when the utility company is responsible to pull those wire. And they have their own rules.
Excellent point! The conductors from the utility transformer are 'either' run by the utility (they follow their own rules) or the electrical contractor (then we follow the NEC). This is a function of what is called the service point. So I discuss the rules that apply when the electrical runs the wires.
and on the subject of dwelling service conductors, I have seen many situations were electricians get in the habit of using 2al on 100 amp services and unwittingly carry the rule over to commercial instalation
In my area we have used #2 aluminium SEU cable for all 100 amp services for last 60 years with no problems. I have removed 50 year old #2 aluminium service cables from residental & commercial properties and the conductor insulation was always in good shape and never showed sugns of overheating.
why does the NEC, in 220.61 exception, say anything about 2 phase when they are pretty much non existent? I don't think anyone alive can even say they have seen a 2 phase system. To my understanding, this is what they used before 3phase to give power to lights, and when motor loads came along, they had to figure out something different to supply power. Maybe that's something they should think about removing from the code book.
Hey mike im hear what you saying but when is the last time you see service wire on a dwelling go bad? And #4 should clear fault on 100 amp breaker any day so save some copper man.
Mike Holt says: "Makes totally no sense to me why anyone would use a 20 A receptacle..." You answered the question yourself later, Mike. There are manufacturers whose devices require more than 12 A and who put NEMA 5-20P plugs on their cords. No point in locking those devices out of your otherwise perfectly serviceable 20 A circuit by hamstringing it with a NEMA 5-15R receptacle. If anything, Mike has made a case for banning 15 A receptacles on 20 A circuits: one should be able to look at a NEMA 5-15P receptacle and be confident that one isn't looking at a 20 A circuit. The fact that hair dryer manufacturers are forced to use the greatest common denominator plug (5-15P) when their design obviously indicates 5-20P is nothing to be happy or even content about. One can't change the past, but we really should push to change regulations that permit devices with NEMA 5-15P plugs from consuming more than 12 A continuous; likewise, the NEC should be changed to ban NEMA 5-15R receptacles from 20 A circuits. UL and other such organizations should stop approving devices that violate this. Of course there will be a transition period, just as there was when NEMA 1-15R receptacles were replaced with NEMA 5-15R receptacles. Just as there are 1-15P to 5-15R adapters that use the faceplate screw for a ground, it is cheap and easy to use 5-15P to 5-20R adapters as needed. Cheap enough that even hair dryer manufacturers could bundle them. As Mike Holt pointed out, because NEMA 5-15R receptacles are made to handle 16 A anyway, there really is no significant additional cost when manufacturing a NEMA 5-15R receptacle. The ignorance-based price gouging he describes for NEMA 5-20R receptacles isn't really justification for anything except, perhaps, legislation to prevent this practice. It certainly isn't a justification for the status quo. (I'm not even convinced he's correct about the guts of a NEMA 5-15R receptacle being identical to those of a NEMA 5-20R receptacle: the spec sheet for a Leviton 5015, for example, says nothing about being able to carry more than 15 A.) We missed an opportunity to mandate this for new construction when tamper-proof receptacles were added to the NEC.
Hi Mike, where should we add an EV load for a single family load calc? As an appliance at 40% or as a heat load at 100%? Is there any info in the NEC for this? Thank you
For sure it's an appliance; not sure how anybody could consider EV to be electric heat. You should just download my free calculation app; Mike Holt Electrical Toolbox.
I have the theory pretty well down. Been in the industry since i was 17 and now 32 this course has been great for quite a few things but still failed twice! I get 80s and 90s on all my course work and am still failing wthhh!!
Hey Mike so let me get this straight, are we permitted to run 2/0 copper through feed through lugs in a meter main combo and go inside to feed a “Sub panel” as you were saying. I understand the theory on how it contradicts itself but I apologize I wasn’t made clear on if it IS acceptable or not. Sorry for inconvenience. Just trying to learn and understand. Thanks.
First of all thank you for your hard work and dedication I enjoy your watching your videos and reading your text books. Mike I'm having a hard time understanding why you said you can't use the table when sizing the service conductors for a two family or multifamily, when 310.12 (A) clearly says you can. What am I missing? Do I need to look somewhere else in the book? The way I see it is, if the service conductors are supplying the entire load (Don't they always?) on a Individual structure of a two family or multifamily then the 83% rule can be applied. Can you explain a scenario when the service conductors dont supply the entire load??? I'm not sure if this is one of those instances where 310.12 was poorly written and changes will need to take place in the next code cycle. Hopefully you can help me clear my confusion. (A) Services. For a service rated 100 amperes through 400 amperes, the service conductors supplying the entire load associated with a one-family dwelling, or the service conductors supplying the entire load associated with an individual dwelling unit in a two-family or multifamily dwelling, shall be permitted to have an ampacity not less than 83 percent of the service rating. If no adjustment or correction factors are required, Table 310.12 shall be permitted to be applied.
Sorry Mike I never mentioned feeder conductors, only service. I have watched the videos plenty of times, I'm referring to section 10:05 on the video where you talk about not being able to use the .83 table and my question is why can't you use it and where In the book It says you cant?
@@TM-td7vk 310.12 Text states "For one-family dwellings and the individual dwelling units of two-family and multifamily dwellings, single-phase feeder conductors consisting of two ungrounded conductors and the neutral conductor from a 208Y/120 volt system shall be permitted to be sized in accordance with 310.12(A) through (C).' So you can't apply the rules in 310.12(A)-(C) to the duplex serivce and the title of Table 310.12 states 'Single-Phase Dwelling Services' which would not include a Two-Family or Multifamily Dwelling. Right?
@@MikeHoltNEC Thank you for your quick response, I highly appreciate it. The paragraph you quoted has to do with feeders, not the service conductors, I'm questioning the conductors between the service point and the first disconnect. The title on 310.12 is letting you know that the table can be applied to service and feeders conductors supplied by only single phase, not three phase and only pertaining to dwellings, not commercial. The NEC defines a dwelling as a building "providing complete and independent limit facility for one or more persons, including permanent provision for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation". This building can consist off a single, two or multifamily dwelling. Remember I'm talking about the conductors between the service point and the first disconnect. The way I see it 310.12 allows you to size the service conductors to the table when supplying power to a single, two or multifamily dwelling.
@@TM-td7vk Of cours not, you are not reading the title of the Table or the text that states "For one-family dwellings and the individual dwelling units of two-family and multifamily dwellings, service and feeder conductors supplied by a single-phase, 120/240-volt system shall be permitted to be sized in accordance with 310.12(A) through (D) ." You can use 310.12 to size service conductors to a one-family dwelling unit and 'individual dwelling units' of a two-or mulitfamily dwelling, but you can't use 310.12 to size service conductors to a Two- or Multifamily Dwelling.
I'm sure I never implied this. If the utility ran the conductors, there is a very high likelyhood that the line would be smaller than the load. If the electrician ran the line conductors then the line and load would be the same size. Why are you asking this?
on the reduced neutral subject, in alot of situations it costs more to do the engineering that the money saved by reducing the conductor size....just saying
This is 100% not a fact. If you size the ungrounded conductor, the data is there to do the neutral. With all of todays software and apps, it happens automatically. Download my app Mike Holt's Electrical Toolbox, see MikeHolt.com/app
20 amp receptacle its the same 15 amp. receptacle? for some reason 15 amp. receptacle face plastic and something in side get burn more ease wen people connect heaters, the 20 amp receptacle what i know its little more heavy and thick and never get burn whit the same heaters. (those heater pull around 12 amps). i ignore a lot of concepts does what I'm watching and watching more videos and read books.
I took apart at least 4 brands of spec grade receptacles and both the 15 & 20 amp duplex 120 volt devices had the same guage blades. To me its a waste of time to ever install a 20 amp 120 volt duplex receptacle in a house. I' m 70 years old and never saw an residental appliance with a 20 amp male plug on it. Only exception that I can think of is a single 20 amp receptacle for a large window ac unit or for say a workshop.
Mike, like always... you just plain Rock!! I choose to buy all my electrical training and CEU’s from you. Love that you recognize God! I do solar work currently and I just wish I could have you in my pocket with talking with chief inspector from WA state about AC disconnect being “treated like a service” because of supply side connection Then calling those conductors “Service equipment” service conductors” etc. oh well, I just have to play their game.
David, thanks for the kind words. The supply side connection/service issue will get resolved in the 2023 NEC, but not before. So what ever your inspector wants, just do it.
Where the utility service conductors enter the the premises . I believe the correct question to ask is how to identify the electrical phases sequence.. thank you for your time.
Thank you for your reply. Well I’m in the electrical field for nearly 7 years . I went to Berk Trade & Business School and obtained a certificate from them. I remember the instructor telling the class how it should be done but I have forgotten it. Last month I was asked if I knew how to do it and I answered no. So they have sent someone else to do it. I would like to seek help from professionals in the field for things like the one I mentioned and transformers . Is there an online class I can register at Mike holts ?
@@carlosbermejo4523It doesn't matter the phase rotation at the service. However, if you are installing a three-phase motor load and the rotation direction of the motor is specified, then you check the rotation 'at the motor' and if needed, change any two leads so the motor rotation changes.
Mike, thank you for all the great videos. If I may, one advice is if you have someone translate and have your videos available in Spanish audio, you will make a fortune! Just take a look at any job site in the U.S. and compare the ratio of Spanish speaking electricians to any other single language, including English. God bless
With electric cars pulling high/continuous current and families potentially charging multiple cars at the same time, I can see this 83% rule starting to cause problems....
The NEC allows an energy management system to adjust the charging rate so that the total load on the service will not exceed the service conductor rating, see 625.42.
At 49:40 I make a "cheater" extension cord with 12 guage sj or so cord of course with a NEMA 5-20 connector on one end and a NEMA 5-15 plug on the other.
@@MikeHoltNEC Never mine I found the information I need on your web site. The electrical professionals in my rural area pay off the inspector so they can get away with anything. I can't let then do bad work.
If you read the section 310.12(A) and (B), of the 2020 NEC, you will see that it describes the "83% rule" for dwelling services and feeders rated 100 to 400 amps. The 83% rule replaced the table in 2014, but the numbers work out exactly the same. In 2020, the table was added back in, but the rule still stands as well.
I think if you apply 83% rule for that reason your size wire will be smaller. At 75 degree 380 isn’t still 400 amp so your next size would be 420 amp with a 400 amp over current protection device with a 600 kcmil conductor
The dwelling unit under sizing - It doesn’t matter because a demand on the dwelling unit is known by the utility company through metering and the majority of dwelling units don’t have any continuous loads and people try to save money by nature and don’t run their AC all the time etc. and also there is a “known” max load based on history . Your home panel rarely goes over 30 amps ever ….on any given day . For the most part your under 13 amps in my experience unless you are all electric appliances . Even then who does laundry and cooks a turkey while boiling a pot of water and making eggs and bacon and warms up a pot of syrup all at once and burning the toast in the toaster while heateing up their coffee in the microwave ???? And takes a shower while doing that so the water heater is going …while the dishwasher is running and the AC kicks on ….anyone anyone !???? Lol So it’s based on demand and logic but also the the utility studies and possibly the factored in the over head wiring which is extremely higher ampacity . But now today we have lots of under ground so it’s a little different but that’s a ten ft max riser we are talking about most of the time and then it becomes free air over head gaining tons of ampacity . Hooked to a huge meter lug and the main breaker . So I totally see why they undersized dwelling unit service feeders . Sorry mike I love you but you gotta back away once in awhile and see the forest from the trees . The other thing is we have a 100 years or so of doing this with no problems right ??? Lol Thanks for reminding me to never put in a 100 amp panel though ( which I never do any ways ) I forgot about that 60 def column for 100 amp or less .
Oh no. Mike, how did you get here ? So smart yet so dumb. Step back and look at the full picture he meant.. Get out of your little algorithmic world of laws and words. Seems these idiots who bring forth these code changes need to do the same. Maybe act like scientist first, trial and error, real life situations, it's theory until it happens three times then it's fact. I like your enthusiasm too but like every code class I go to, it's been someone who teaches what they think was correct, not the actual.
@@yourelectricman Brandon, I didn't see any question from you, I'm sorry that my response was taken that I'm answer a question with a question. I'm honestly trying to understand what I say wrong when I was explaining the NEC. Don't get upset, please help me understand your point. Have a great day.
I think you are 100% correct, since you can't tell that there is a metal raceway, and we rarely use metal raceways from a residential service to the panelboard. I'll get this corrected immediately. Thank you and keep giving me feedback.
I am sorry but the NEC is one big pile of crap... Get rid of options, get rid of different temp scales. Size according to worst case scenario. If not, do not become an electrician and do not own a house etc. Get rid of the BS. No more ifs. Just show what needs to be done. Period! SVC AMPERAGE = THIS WIRE! Period!
@@MikeHoltNEC No I am not, and I understand the safety aspect of it. But aren't too many choices sometimes an issue? Even inspectors are never consistent because I believe each one understands things a different way. This is just my view as everyone has their own. But I also understand, "Let's make the NEC too confusing for the average tradesman". I get it. But even after watching your videos, it still seems it (NEC) is meant to be confusing. This is my frustration. And just because someone is a "Master Electrician" it does not mean you can automatically trust them... So non electricians or DiY'er types should be able to follow what NEC wants in order to make sure you do not get thrown over the coals. Especially if the Inspector is not that great. :(
@@fizwin1 Clearly you have no clue on the purpose of the NEC; your expectation is understandable for someone with your skill set (not a licensed electrician). The NEC states the following "90.1 Purpose. (A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity. This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons."
@@MikeHoltNEC Well I understand the safety purpose, but here even listening to you and trying to learn even more, it seems even your crew seems to think some items are tough to understand. I apologize if I misunderstood what I listened to. As a for instance, would it not have made sense to just make a rule back prior to 2020, that every outlet in a kitchen should be GFCI? Especially since even a fridge at its lower amperage/no actual compressor, will not trip one. I think I am frustrated as stated on some 'exceptions' etc where a blanket statement will work. They seem to get there but maybe it is my patience in how long it takes. They know how to make things safe electrically, but take a while doing it. I am not sure how else to explain it. When I said it was crap, it was more of how many things are written. Again I have listened to many actual electricians have a tough time. Again not every one of them will understand just because they are certified. As stated, I think a non-electrician needs to have some knowledge too. There are just too many people that get taken advantage of in the industry. I hope you are not saying I should not watch your videos, but I do know your site forum is only for actual contractors etc to post. Still and all, thanks for what you do.
@@fizwin1 Guess what... the 2023 NEC will require all receptacles in kitchens to be GFCI protected! Thanks for the feedback and have a great day/night.
Watching your videos and having your books has made my life a lot easier. Keep up the awesome work!
65 a plans examiner that was just laid these on my lap. Thank you, and my father was a teacher until he was 82. Best teacher I've ever seen. You are right there with him. Well done.
Congratulations to have such an amazing dad.
I don’t get tired of watching this videos, the best!!! Thanks 🙏
It may be listed but backstabbing or speedwiring is the number one cause of service calls in my lifetime. Over 44 years and I've done all the emergency calls in ever shop I've worked for. I put the connections right up there with aluminum...may even higher.
Mr. Holt, Wyoming master electrician here. Been on a hiatus for about 3 years, and I'm brushing up using your videos. Your videos helped me immensely when I passed my master's test with an 85 on the first try. I'm pretty rusty right now, so I'm thinking about getting your book on understanding the code to get me back up to speed.
Mike I think using a 20 amp outlet it’s important because that means I can look and see the wire is at least 12/2 which is safer for any of my work tools and don’t have to worry about popping the breaker from overheating
Thank you Mike for the videos you make. I used the exam preparation videos you made, and thanks to those videos and studying. I got my Journeyman's license, on the first try, 3 years ago. I search for your videos to feed off your knowledge.
I'm so happy for you. Now visit MikeHolt.com/Business and learn business before you take your masters. By the way, you are ready for your masters.
Amen my brother Mike great job your Dr Tony of divinity
I have to watch this video at least 3 times... thanks
Duplex homes can be a big issue with only 200 coming in feeding into 2 100-amp breaker boxes if they rely on baseboard and forced air wall heaters. 2 stoves, 2 dryers, 2 water heaters etc. it adds up like a grocery bill
1:30 AM, I'll finish this video tomorrow, thank you for sharing your knowledge
Thank God for Holt, The Guardian Angel
You just refresh my mind. Now I know how good of teacher I did have. He explained me exactly what you explaining now . And yes is not easy to understand but if you practice it gets easier. He actually used your books to teach combined with the code book. He respected you a lot but he found a few mistakes in your books . This was a certification test that I took.
Thank you sir I really like your videos
You were blessed to have a great instructor. All books have mistakes, however we don't know if what he thought was a mistake was actually a mistake.
I believe the code needs a go over just for greater clarity. As you pointed out in this video seems some code articles could be deleted or re written to refer to another article.
Thank you for your wisdom. I have questioned this since I was an apprentice.
You are very welcome.
Thank you, thank you!
Those conductors can handle way more current they are rated at! Power company runs 4/0 to a 400 amp service! NEC requires much higher. So using the 310.12 chart is good. No reason to change it. God Bless!
I'm not insane!!! I have been skeptical of the feeder sizing.
I am definitely having fun!
that was super fun! thx
As you can tell, we had fun also!
God bless you and your team
Thank you
Excellent video tutorials sir mike.
thank u!!
Mike I think we need a go/no go inspection checklist. There is no reason I should fail an inspection on my 100 amp panel upgrade to 400 amp with 2 200 and inside 200 amp subpanel because I didn’t put a piece of black tape on the hot water tank double pole breaker white wire on my inside 200amp subpanel. Everything was going well until he asked me who did the work and I said I did! I immediately pulled out my tape, he said I’m not going to stand here while you fix it! Tell me what safety is that really violating that would put someone’s life at risk to fail an inspection. When the panel cover would hide the piece of black tape, and…. Double pole breaker ding ding ding!
Can you tell I’m angry about the sexiest discrimination! It’s BS and not the first time I’ve had trouble it’s constant and ongoing so please we need a go/ no go aka failure NEC inspectors checklist.
Thank you very clear explaining.
Glad you liked it
I would like to know the electrical code not less then you. You are very much experienced in this.
Hello, Mr. Mike i am still waiting for a video about Neutro, you stated that you were going to do a hole video about neutro sizing that can be smaller than the ungrounded conductor. Thanks a lot. God bless you.
Also to be noted the supply house has the 310.16 size wire in stock . the 310.12 wire isn't in stock so we buy the 310.16 size wire anyway.
Now that makes totally no sense at all, since Table 310.12 wires are the same as Table 310.16 wires...
Excelente trabajo y aporte, buen Mike.
Excelente aplicación de la conexión Inversa o Reversible en el Minuto 17:03; me gustaría saber más al respecto de ésa conexión. please .😻👍
Mike, can you start doing these live streams again? Thanks for always teaching! #savage
Thanks for doing these videos
My pleasure!
Yea I have a great time learning! Would agree that 310.12 is a separate entity then the sense made in table 310.16
P.S. got censored on your latest short was nothing but a nice thing to say I don’t understand why I said God Speed. You can’t put a 15A dedicated outlet on a 20A circuit was a test question
Hum. I'm the only one managing my Channels. Which short? That might help me better track down the problem. Sorry
@@MikeHoltNEC no don’t be, it’s a speculation I posted the comment and then in vanished. It looks like you where dirt biking or mountain biking. The forests of Santa Fe. I don’t think it is something to dig into could be on my end.
All good just came back never reposted
👍
I think the reason is because it's a short run and is the same as a pigtail..... And I'm pretty sure code is overkill..... They know the wire can handle more than it's rated for
Per NEC a 15 amp receptacle is code on a 20 amp circuit at least one of the suburbs of Chicago require a 20 amp receptacle on all 20 amp circuits. The only equipment I have seen with a 20 amp 120vac plug is an Air conditioner and a stacked washer and dryer
Interesting and you are 100% correct. Hope you had a nice Christmas and have a nice New Year.
Mike, thank you for all the great videos. If I may, one advice is if you have someone translate and have your videos available in Spanish audio, you will make a fortune! Just take a look at any job site in the U.S. and compare the ratio of Spanish speaking electricians to any other single language, including English. God bless
I feel that electricians is in the US, need to learn how to speak, read, and write in English. So for that matter we don't have any plans to translated any of our products into Spanish.
@@MikeHoltNEC I agree with that, thank you for taking the time to respond.
Yes Mike, they do make 20 amp GFIs.
Thanks, but 20A GFCI's have been around for fifty years...
I’m going to review the video until I learned thank you Mike once again God bless you and your team for the effort on Teaching us
Exactly, watch it as many times as possible.
Thanks 🙏
Great videos clear understanding well edited
Glad you think so!
You said you can't run a bunch of wires down a 2" pipe to a panel. But you can if it's 24" or less and secured at the top within 8" of entering the pipe
Michael, please let me know where in the video you 'think' I made that statement; I'm sure I never did. But to be clear, you can never run a bunch of "cables" down a 2" concealed raceway to a panel, except as permitted by 312.5(C).
I have a 30 KW generator and I have a 50 amp breaker on it it used to be three phase and that's what was on it and I can run my whole house on a 50 amp breaker but I do have coming three art coming into the main the feeder
Thank you .
these videos are super helpful not gonna lie
Thank you.
Because a 200 amp wire will have no issues at all with 225 amps. The world's dwellings are not suffering from a massive epidemic of loss because you used kcmil 500 to handle 400 amps with a wire rated at 380 at 75c. They just aren't.
Why is the neutral considered unbalanced when it's still a current carrying conductor the only difference Is (it's bonded to earth and typical the voltage.)? And what if your panel is just slapped full of single pole 20s the neutral would need to be bigger than the phase conductor right?the neutral is being used in every case so wouldn't it be receiving more load then and one phase since the phases are alternate between breakers but the neutral is used for every one? What am I missing?
i don't think you should bother adding AL values. I always assume CU and just adjust for AL. But you could put 'CU' after all sizes i guess. too much work? then people will get confused on old docs/videos
Yea, I think you are right.
I have been looking for the transition video that was supposed to be dated on may 27 the wednesday after .You said the video would be about tarrier transitions of how to advance int he trades .
Humm... I think I decided to not publish the video. But let me review this video and see what I can do.
Nope, we didn't make any such video. Sorry
Leviton and Eaton make 20Amp GFCI.
I saw them at Home Depot. Unless this video was made before they were available.
I don't understand your comment. All manufactures have made 20A GFCIs since the beginning of the NEC requirement.
@@MikeHoltNEC Could be wrong but I also thought it was stated you didn't think they even made such a thing as 20A GFCIs, (so its more reason to think a 15A recep would be fine on an a 20A line.) So since there are such things, are they also identical except for the T slot? (wondering if the internal electronics would be different)
Thanks!
Thank you for these videos! I cant wait to bend your ear in Coral Springs this year!
See you in August!
Because your load is at 83 % witch is lower then the 85 amp on the table.
I'm sorry, I don't understand your comment. Please watch the video again. If the Table is used, then the 83% factor does not apply.
im haveing fun mike
I don’t know sir but why we have to discuss services conductors when the utility company is responsible to pull those wire. And they have their own rules.
Excellent point! The conductors from the utility transformer are 'either' run by the utility (they follow their own rules) or the electrical contractor (then we follow the NEC). This is a function of what is called the service point. So I discuss the rules that apply when the electrical runs the wires.
and on the subject of dwelling service conductors, I have seen many situations were electricians get in the habit of using 2al on 100 amp services and unwittingly carry the rule over to commercial instalation
Okay
In my area we have used #2 aluminium SEU cable for all 100 amp services for last 60 years with no problems. I have removed 50 year old #2 aluminium service cables from residental & commercial properties and the conductor insulation was always in good shape and never showed sugns of overheating.
why does the NEC, in 220.61 exception, say anything about 2 phase when they are pretty much non existent? I don't think anyone alive can even say they have seen a 2 phase system. To my understanding, this is what they used before 3phase to give power to lights, and when motor loads came along, they had to figure out something different to supply power. Maybe that's something they should think about removing from the code book.
Like you said, pretty much nonexistent, but they might still be around. So then the NEC has to have the exception.
Hey mike im hear what you saying but when is the last time you see service wire on a dwelling go bad? And #4 should clear fault on 100 amp breaker any day so save some copper man.
Good point, and the 2023 NEC is clarifying.
Mike Holt says: "Makes totally no sense to me why anyone would use a 20 A receptacle..."
You answered the question yourself later, Mike. There are manufacturers whose devices require more than 12 A and who put NEMA 5-20P plugs on their cords. No point in locking those devices out of your otherwise perfectly serviceable 20 A circuit by hamstringing it with a NEMA 5-15R receptacle.
If anything, Mike has made a case for banning 15 A receptacles on 20 A circuits: one should be able to look at a NEMA 5-15P receptacle and be confident that one isn't looking at a 20 A circuit.
The fact that hair dryer manufacturers are forced to use the greatest common denominator plug (5-15P) when their design obviously indicates 5-20P is nothing to be happy or even content about.
One can't change the past, but we really should push to change regulations that permit devices with NEMA 5-15P plugs from consuming more than 12 A continuous; likewise, the NEC should be changed to ban NEMA 5-15R receptacles from 20 A circuits. UL and other such organizations should stop approving devices that violate this. Of course there will be a transition period, just as there was when NEMA 1-15R receptacles were replaced with NEMA 5-15R receptacles. Just as there are 1-15P to 5-15R adapters that use the faceplate screw for a ground, it is cheap and easy to use 5-15P to 5-20R adapters as needed. Cheap enough that even hair dryer manufacturers could bundle them.
As Mike Holt pointed out, because NEMA 5-15R receptacles are made to handle 16 A anyway, there really is no significant additional cost when manufacturing a NEMA 5-15R receptacle. The ignorance-based price gouging he describes for NEMA 5-20R receptacles isn't really justification for anything except, perhaps, legislation to prevent this practice. It certainly isn't a justification for the status quo. (I'm not even convinced he's correct about the guts of a NEMA 5-15R receptacle being identical to those of a NEMA 5-20R receptacle: the spec sheet for a Leviton 5015, for example, says nothing about being able to carry more than 15 A.)
We missed an opportunity to mandate this for new construction when tamper-proof receptacles were added to the NEC.
when do we use 90C column. To size wire
To to MikeHolt.TV and watch the video I have on this page about this topic.
Ditto on residential dwelling sizing
Just a heads up. Your graphic has no ground wire between first disconnect and interior panel. Only from ground to neutral bonding and electrode
Metal pipe inside to the panel...
@@MikeHoltNEC ah. Tricky.
Thanks
Hi Mike, where should we add an EV load for a single family load calc? As an appliance at 40% or as a heat load at 100%? Is there any info in the NEC for this? Thank you
For sure it's an appliance; not sure how anybody could consider EV to be electric heat. You should just download my free calculation app; Mike Holt Electrical Toolbox.
I have the theory pretty well down. Been in the industry since i was 17 and now 32 this course has been great for quite a few things but still failed twice! I get 80s and 90s on all my course work and am still failing wthhh!!
Call 352.360.2620, so we can help you pass the next time!
English automatic: not Opacity, not Capacity, but: Ampacity; an Electrician's special term.
Hey Mike so let me get this straight, are we permitted to run 2/0 copper through feed through lugs in a meter main combo and go inside to feed a “Sub panel” as you were saying. I understand the theory on how it contradicts itself but I apologize I wasn’t made clear on if it IS acceptable or not. Sorry for inconvenience. Just trying to learn and understand. Thanks.
Im from brazil.
First of all thank you for your hard work and dedication I enjoy your watching your videos and reading your text books.
Mike I'm having a hard time understanding why you said you can't use the table when sizing the service conductors for a two family or multifamily, when 310.12 (A) clearly says you can. What am I missing? Do I need to look somewhere else in the book?
The way I see it is, if the service conductors are supplying the entire load (Don't they always?) on a Individual structure of a two family or multifamily then the 83% rule can be applied. Can you explain a scenario when the service conductors dont supply the entire load???
I'm not sure if this is one of those instances where 310.12 was poorly written and changes will need to take place in the next code cycle. Hopefully you can help me clear my confusion.
(A) Services. For a service rated 100 amperes through 400 amperes, the service conductors supplying the entire load associated with a one-family dwelling, or the service conductors supplying the entire load associated with an individual dwelling unit in a two-family or multifamily dwelling, shall be permitted to have an ampacity not less than 83 percent of the service rating. If no adjustment or correction factors are required, Table 310.12 shall be permitted to be applied.
Please watch the video again, of course you can use the table for 'individual' dwelling unit feeders!
Sorry Mike I never mentioned feeder conductors, only service. I have watched the videos plenty of times, I'm referring to section 10:05 on the video where you talk about not being able to use the .83 table and my question is why can't you use it and where In the book It says you cant?
@@TM-td7vk 310.12 Text states "For one-family dwellings and the individual dwelling units of two-family and multifamily dwellings, single-phase feeder conductors consisting of two ungrounded conductors and the neutral conductor from a 208Y/120 volt system shall be permitted to be sized in accordance with 310.12(A) through (C).' So you can't apply the rules in 310.12(A)-(C) to the duplex serivce and the title of Table 310.12 states 'Single-Phase Dwelling Services' which would not include a Two-Family or Multifamily Dwelling. Right?
@@MikeHoltNEC Thank you for your quick response, I highly appreciate it. The paragraph you quoted has to do with feeders, not the service conductors, I'm questioning the conductors between the service point and the first disconnect. The title on 310.12 is letting you know that the table can be applied to service and feeders conductors supplied by only single phase, not three phase and only pertaining to dwellings, not commercial.
The NEC defines a dwelling as a building "providing complete and independent limit facility for one or more persons, including permanent provision for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation". This building can consist off a single, two or multifamily dwelling.
Remember I'm talking about the conductors between the service point and the first disconnect. The way I see it 310.12 allows you to size the service conductors to the table when supplying power to a single, two or multifamily dwelling.
@@TM-td7vk Of cours not, you are not reading the title of the Table or the text that states "For one-family dwellings and the individual dwelling units of two-family and multifamily dwellings, service and feeder conductors supplied by a single-phase, 120/240-volt system shall be permitted to be sized in accordance with 310.12(A) through (D) ." You can use 310.12 to size service conductors to a one-family dwelling unit and 'individual dwelling units' of a two-or mulitfamily dwelling, but you can't use 310.12 to size service conductors to a Two- or Multifamily Dwelling.
so when the service conductors coming into the meter are landed on the line side, does that mean my load side can potentially be smaller ?
I'm sure I never implied this. If the utility ran the conductors, there is a very high likelyhood that the line would be smaller than the load. If the electrician ran the line conductors then the line and load would be the same size. Why are you asking this?
on the reduced neutral subject, in alot of situations it costs more to do the engineering that the money saved by reducing the conductor size....just saying
This is 100% not a fact. If you size the ungrounded conductor, the data is there to do the neutral. With all of todays software and apps, it happens automatically. Download my app Mike Holt's Electrical Toolbox, see MikeHolt.com/app
Mike, so if I want to upgrade the panel in my home can I use the 83% rule to size the service entrance conductors?
open your Code book and read what the conditions are.
I came here looking for Linear and non Linear loads, De rating 4 Current carrying Service conductors or not
See 310.15 in the NEC.
Why is the code making things confusing? Seems like they don't want to make a decision!
Have you completed an electrical theory program, Code program Code Calculations program and are you licensed? If not, then 'there is your problem.'
20 amp receptacle its the same 15 amp. receptacle? for some reason 15 amp. receptacle face plastic and something in side get burn more ease wen people connect heaters, the 20 amp receptacle what i know its little more heavy and thick and never get burn whit the same heaters. (those heater pull around 12 amps). i ignore a lot of concepts does what I'm watching and watching more videos and read books.
I took apart at least 4 brands of spec grade receptacles and both the 15 & 20 amp duplex 120 volt devices had the same guage blades. To me its a waste of time to ever install a 20 amp 120 volt duplex receptacle in a house. I' m 70 years old and never saw an residental appliance with a 20 amp male plug on it. Only exception that I can think of is a single 20 amp receptacle for a large window ac unit or for say a workshop.
Mike, like always... you just plain Rock!!
I choose to buy all my electrical training and CEU’s from you. Love that you recognize God! I do solar work currently and I just wish I could have you in my pocket with talking with chief inspector from WA state about AC disconnect being “treated like a service” because of supply side connection
Then calling those conductors
“Service equipment” service conductors” etc. oh well, I just have to play their game.
David, thanks for the kind words. The supply side connection/service issue will get resolved in the 2023 NEC, but not before. So what ever your inspector wants, just do it.
How to identify the ungrounded conductors at a M-box?
I’m sure they are black, red and blue but they are all black now.
What is a M-box?
Where the utility service conductors enter the the premises .
I believe the correct question to ask is how to identify the electrical phases sequence..
thank you for your time.
@@carlosbermejo4523 Why would you want this information for? Answer: Get a phase rotation meter.
Thank you for your reply.
Well I’m in the electrical field for nearly 7 years . I went to Berk Trade & Business School and obtained a certificate from them.
I remember the instructor telling the class how it should be done but I have forgotten it.
Last month I was asked if I knew how to do it and I answered no.
So they have sent someone else to do it.
I would like to seek help from professionals in the field for things like the one I mentioned and transformers .
Is there an online class I can register at Mike holts ?
@@carlosbermejo4523It doesn't matter the phase rotation at the service. However, if you are installing a three-phase motor load and the rotation direction of the motor is specified, then you check the rotation 'at the motor' and if needed, change any two leads so the motor rotation changes.
Did Brian ever give his PoE webinar?
Yes. You can view it here. ruclips.net/video/aiwUKN_rlfI/видео.html
Deseo que la enseñanza sea en ESPAÑOL. Gracias.
I'm sorry, but my work is for the US market, and you need to speak and read English.
Mike, thank you for all the great videos. If I may, one advice is if you have someone translate and have your videos available in Spanish audio, you will make a fortune! Just take a look at any job site in the U.S. and compare the ratio of Spanish speaking electricians to any other single language, including English. God bless
With electric cars pulling high/continuous current and families potentially charging multiple cars at the same time, I can see this 83% rule starting to cause problems....
The NEC allows an energy management system to adjust the charging rate so that the total load on the service will not exceed the service conductor rating, see 625.42.
At 49:40 I make a "cheater" extension cord with 12 guage sj or so cord of course with a NEMA 5-20 connector on one end and a NEMA 5-15 plug on the other.
This is in violation of 406.5(I).
200 ft 12/2 with ground to dedicated outlet, what breaker to use 15 or 20 amp?
I'm sorry but my site is for the electrical professional. You'll need to go to a DIY site for consumer questions.
@@MikeHoltNEC Never mine I found the information I need on your web site. The electrical professionals in my rural area pay off the inspector so they can get away with anything. I can't let then do bad work.
Hi Sir Mike, 310.12 table, is it already removed on NEC? I can't find the similar table on NEC2017.
btw I learn a lot from you, thank you very much.
Me too.
If you read the section 310.12(A) and (B), of the 2020 NEC, you will see that it describes the "83% rule" for dwelling services and feeders rated 100 to 400 amps. The 83% rule replaced the table in 2014, but the numbers work out exactly the same. In 2020, the table was added back in, but the rule still stands as well.
It was added back in the 2020 NEC.
Mike...what is happening no volumen..??
Volumn does start until the program starts; countdown timer gets to zero.
Thought I was missing something all this time.
you can use a 500 kcmil wire on a 400A service , & thats the code. the code says; for 100A to 400A service or feeders you apply the 83% rule.
I'm sorry but I have no clue what your post is intended to say. Please watch the video again to better understand what the NEC says.
I think if you apply 83% rule for that reason your size wire will be smaller. At 75 degree 380 isn’t still 400 amp so your next size would be 420 amp with a 400 amp over current protection device with a 600 kcmil conductor
The dwelling unit under sizing - It doesn’t matter because a demand on the dwelling unit is known by the utility company through metering and the majority of dwelling units don’t have any continuous loads and people try to save money by nature and don’t run their AC all the time etc. and also there is a “known” max load based on history . Your home panel rarely goes over 30 amps ever ….on any given day . For the most part your under 13 amps in my experience unless you are all electric appliances . Even then who does laundry and cooks a turkey while boiling a pot of water and making eggs and bacon and warms up a pot of syrup all at once and burning the toast in the toaster while heateing up their coffee in the microwave ???? And takes a shower while doing that so the water heater is going …while the dishwasher is running and the AC kicks on ….anyone anyone !???? Lol
So it’s based on demand and logic but also the the utility studies and possibly the factored in the over head wiring which is extremely higher ampacity . But now today we have lots of under ground so it’s a little different but that’s a ten ft max riser we are talking about most of the time and then it becomes free air over head gaining tons of ampacity . Hooked to a huge meter lug and the main breaker . So I totally see why they undersized dwelling unit service feeders . Sorry mike I love you but you gotta back away once in awhile and see the forest from the trees . The other thing is we have a 100 years or so of doing this with no problems right ??? Lol Thanks for reminding me to never put in a 100 amp panel though ( which I never do any ways ) I forgot about that 60 def column for 100 amp or less .
Great feedback, but I don't understand the comment about the forest and trees. What did I say that was not part of the NEC?
Oh no. Mike, how did you get here ? So smart yet so dumb. Step back and look at the full picture he meant.. Get out of your little algorithmic world of laws and words. Seems these idiots who bring forth these code changes need to do the same. Maybe act like scientist first, trial and error, real life situations, it's theory until it happens three times then it's fact. I like your enthusiasm too but like every code class I go to, it's been someone who teaches what they think was correct, not the actual.
@@yourelectricman What exactly did I say that was not based on the NEC?
@@MikeHoltNEC great reply, I'm not stooping to your level either. A question answered with a question.
@@yourelectricman Brandon, I didn't see any question from you, I'm sorry that my response was taken that I'm answer a question with a question. I'm honestly trying to understand what I say wrong when I was explaining the NEC. Don't get upset, please help me understand your point. Have a great day.
Should there be an equipment grounding conductor shown after the main disconnect in this graphic for dwelling services? Thanks
I think you are 100% correct, since you can't tell that there is a metal raceway, and we rarely use metal raceways from a residential service to the panelboard. I'll get this corrected immediately. Thank you and keep giving me feedback.
bad news? (cliff hanger)
Keep your pecker up, my Scottish mom always told me that.
I am sorry but the NEC is one big pile of crap... Get rid of options, get rid of different temp scales. Size according to worst case scenario. If not, do not become an electrician and do not own a house etc. Get rid of the BS. No more ifs. Just show what needs to be done. Period! SVC AMPERAGE = THIS WIRE! Period!
Your comment that "the NEC is one big pile of crap" is disappointing. I'm guessing that you are not a licensed Master Electrician...
@@MikeHoltNEC No I am not, and I understand the safety aspect of it. But aren't too many choices sometimes an issue? Even inspectors are never consistent because I believe each one understands things a different way. This is just my view as everyone has their own. But I also understand, "Let's make the NEC too confusing for the average tradesman". I get it. But even after watching your videos, it still seems it (NEC) is meant to be confusing. This is my frustration. And just because someone is a "Master Electrician" it does not mean you can automatically trust them... So non electricians or DiY'er types should be able to follow what NEC wants in order to make sure you do not get thrown over the coals. Especially if the Inspector is not that great. :(
@@fizwin1 Clearly you have no clue on the purpose of the NEC; your expectation is understandable for someone with your skill set (not a licensed electrician). The NEC states the following "90.1 Purpose. (A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity. This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons."
@@MikeHoltNEC Well I understand the safety purpose, but here even listening to you and trying to learn even more, it seems even your crew seems to think some items are tough to understand. I apologize if I misunderstood what I listened to. As a for instance, would it not have made sense to just make a rule back prior to 2020, that every outlet in a kitchen should be GFCI? Especially since even a fridge at its lower amperage/no actual compressor, will not trip one. I think I am frustrated as stated on some 'exceptions' etc where a blanket statement will work. They seem to get there but maybe it is my patience in how long it takes. They know how to make things safe electrically, but take a while doing it. I am not sure how else to explain it. When I said it was crap, it was more of how many things are written. Again I have listened to many actual electricians have a tough time. Again not every one of them will understand just because they are certified. As stated, I think a non-electrician needs to have some knowledge too. There are just too many people that get taken advantage of in the industry. I hope you are not saying I should not watch your videos, but I do know your site forum is only for actual contractors etc to post. Still and all, thanks for what you do.
@@fizwin1 Guess what... the 2023 NEC will require all receptacles in kitchens to be GFCI protected! Thanks for the feedback and have a great day/night.
Mike what is your email? I have some questions based on your information and want to send you an attachment picture to verify my calculations, please.
Please post your questions on MikeHolt.com/Forum
I’m going to review the video until I learned thank you Mike once again God bless you and your team for the effort on Teaching us
My honor, God Bless
Thank you
You're welcome
Thank you