We've been ding very similar here in Europe for years. We hardly ever use ventelation however I think it's important to understand how and when to use both temperature checks, gas cooling, indirect and direct firefighting as well as ventelation/flowpath control and reducing steam as much as possible to maintain visibility and reduce the chance of steam burns.
Very good video. Interior firefighting isn't what it was 20 years ago. All of this makes sense and is very good information. Hopefully many brothers and sisters will see this and be able to use this information. It can and just might save a life on day. As Randy said... Make the building behave. We have more control than some think that we do. Stay safe out there!
On a slightly humorous side. We were in an interior attack on a training fire in an old large timber construction dwelling. A rookie just out of fire school was given a chance to strut his stuff on the nozzle with his LT right behind him. As they advanced the line he hit fire with a wide full cone spray and caused a lot of steam in the room before ventilation was established. No one seriously hurt as the backup used a straight stream to knock out a window covering but our rookie did blister his ear tips. Trip to the ER and statement to the Fire Marshal and a thousand ear jokes for the next six months. The truck company put mouse ears in his locker, his car, and in the day room every day for about a month.
JB I was a firefighter for 24 years starting as a technician and finishing as a Batallion Chief. I have attended Oklahoma State and the Masters Program at Maryland and no one teaches surround and drown as the preferred method of extinguishing structure fires. We always enter the structure if the roof is intact and conduct a search for victims as well as ventilate rooms where we safely can. We pull a line as a part of that process for our own safety and if possible attack the seat of the fire with a straight stream or small cone to suppress the spread but that is secondary until we know the occupants are no longer in the structure. A working structure gets an engine company (2 pumpers), a ladder for ventilation duties, and a medic unit. If the structure has smoke or fire visible on arrival we will ask for another engine company and depending on the weather and size and exposures we may fill the box. As for coordination the first arriving officer establishes command and does a walk around the structure to assess fire location and extent. He/she stays in front of the structure and establishes subsidiary commands like staging, triage, transport, and logistics. As a more senior officer or Batallion Chief arrives command passes to them. The entire incident is given a tactical radio frequency for fire ground operations and a dispatcher in the safety center is on the frequency until the incident ends. Command is from a Chiefs buggy and manpower tags from each firefighter on the scene are held there for accountability.
Very similar to what we are doing in Australia, but with some differences. Dial down your flow rate. Pumping huge amounts of water will create steam, reducing visibility, increasing discomfort and the risk of steam burn. Straight nozzle into the over pressure area above your head will not provide a reliable indicator of the temperature as the droplets are too large and are more likely just bouncing back off the ceiling. A quick shot of fog spray will be absorbed quicker and more completely, thus aiding in cooling the fire gases. Door entry, we paint the door as shown here but if also create a 3D flame trap with a fog spray over our head to cool the escaping gases. Every door, inside is treated the same way, not just the exterior doors. If you get the chance to practice in a flashover cell, see if you can compare straight jet to fog and see if it makes a difference. Every fire is different of course, but it's in our own interests to share and learn. :)
Good stuff and we've actually tried it instead of bashing it with what has always been done. It works. Of course you know firefighters if Ben Carson wrote a piece on neurosurgery they'd say that knew better.
Fire within an enclosed structure can create an explosive situation. Flash over or back draft. Understand how the smoke is exiting can tell what is going on inside. Ventilating is important if it is at the roof. An open door can create a bomb of smoke and gasses of fire that create an explosion. And every fire and building is different.
Excuse the question. I am a Japanese firefighter. When entering a building, be sure to secure it with ropes between the members. It seems that it is not secured as a video, but is it okay? I'm sorry in a strange question.
Not necessarily here only time any type of rope or strap is used in hose lines is on high rise fires when they go straight up there center of a stairwell
We run 3 man engine comp. You wouldn’t pull a single FF from another engine or truck to keep a man at the front for door control. A competent engineer can absolutely feed line, but they don’t have time to sit there and hold the door shut
Same principal bereal2us....if the door swings inwards it can be controlled with web-strapping, rope, or other suitable means. Not sure about how many have outward swinging vs. inward doors. Perhaps that's regional???
+bereal2us Hook the door with your halligan and pull it closed to the point that the bar is between the door and the jamb. That keeps it closed but doesn't allow it to accidently lock closed
Did anyone but me see a crossed stream from the lead on the line? Also the commentator spoke of taking a leg out of the fire and then it appeared that they continued to attack. Am I misunderstanding something? Was the fire not extinguished when a leg was taken out? What normally comes after extinguishment in the LA County FD?
What he means about taking a leg out is just letting the steam conversion choke out the fire and cooling the gases at the ceiling. It wont extinguish it, but will knock it down enough to make conditions a bit more safe to advance the line. That's how I took it anyway.
Fire triangle. Fuel, Heat, Oxygen. Reducing temp is essentially removing the heat "leg" of the fire. Or by keeping door closed limiting entrainment of air is removing oxygen "leg"
With three man crew (Driver, Officer, FF), is it the driver/operator that is controlling the door after charging the line until the next unit arrives, allowing the two man interior team (Officer & FF) to make the attack?
If sufficient cooling of the smoke is applied it shouldn't carry enough heat to auto ignite. We have a similar method in Australia but we use a fog pattern rather than a jet, once we can attack the seat of the fire we dribble the water into it so the investigators can effectively do their job
Why a straight stream? If known that no one is inside. Again, why a straight stream? Have you ever entered with a full fog? Fog will instantly create water and steam (and create a cool area for the fighters) Steam will snuff out the fire quickly. Just make sure no one is in there as the thermal balance will be drawn down. It is a known fact that a full fog nozzle can put out mass fires faster than a straight stream. (attention to the first attack nozzle) A 2 and a half inch hose (line) with 200 lbs pressure at the nozzle at full fog will extinguish lots of fire very quickly. It is almost like using the deck gun which does the same in a straight stream with lots of pressure. Experiment with it with practice burns. Find out what works best. You may be amazed.
iaffjake I 'think' he's saying that with an engrained culture within New York it would be very difficult to make this work. Problem with many larger cities is that it takes more time to bring about change; whether good or bad. I hope eventually FDNY members see the benefits of this and other modern scientific findings (such as SLICErs, softening the target etc). There will always be naysayers.....remember some people still don't believe in climate change ;)
It won't work in NY because the construction, streets, hydrants apparatus and manpower make it different. Three person Engine ??? Door control? ??? Theres twenty guys in the doorway, and the door has a 50-50 shot of being RIPPED off hinges. Experience is the best research, and those with experience know getting in there with a TFT using straight or fog as needed while Truck is venting works best. Hitting it from the outside with a pre connect means you were WASTING TIME, because you should have made entry already. Im retired and living in Utah.... and here, probably cant do things like in NY, because construction, water, distances, response times, manpower, etc are all DIFFERENT. Here, theres often 2 Jakes on a pumper, and theres not 20 on duty... so i suppose these ideas are more applicable.
Ever seen the movie backdraft? There's a sign somewhere in that movie that says Chicago Fire Dept-200 years, unimpeded by progress. Same mentality as FDNY. Silliness.
Nice job on this. It's been a long time coming. Thanks for the work putting it together. MAKE THE BUILDING BEHAVE!
We've been ding very similar here in Europe for years. We hardly ever use ventelation however I think it's important to understand how and when to use both temperature checks, gas cooling, indirect and direct firefighting as well as ventelation/flowpath control and reducing steam as much as possible to maintain visibility and reduce the chance of steam burns.
Very good video. Interior firefighting isn't what it was 20 years ago. All of this makes sense and is very good information. Hopefully many brothers and sisters will see this and be able to use this information. It can and just might save a life on day. As Randy said... Make the building behave. We have more control than some think that we do. Stay safe out there!
Omg!!! Finally someone is saying it's okay to flow water on smoke! No more are we worried about water damage...
Flowing water on HEAT, not smoke!
@@jackh577keep it cool and you will be alright
On a slightly humorous side. We were in an interior attack on a training fire in an old large timber construction dwelling. A rookie just out of fire school was given a chance to strut his stuff on the nozzle with his LT right behind him. As they advanced the line he hit fire with a wide full cone spray and caused a lot of steam in the room before ventilation was established. No one seriously hurt as the backup used a straight stream to knock out a window covering but our rookie did blister his ear tips. Trip to the ER and statement to the Fire Marshal and a thousand ear jokes for the next six months. The truck company put mouse ears in his locker, his car, and in the day room every day for about a month.
JB I was a firefighter for 24 years starting as a technician and finishing as a Batallion Chief. I have attended Oklahoma State and the Masters Program at Maryland and no one teaches surround and drown as the preferred method of extinguishing structure fires. We always enter the structure if the roof is intact and conduct a search for victims as well as ventilate rooms where we safely can. We pull a line as a part of that process for our own safety and if possible attack the seat of the fire with a straight stream or small cone to suppress the spread but that is secondary until we know the occupants are no longer in the structure. A working structure gets an engine company (2 pumpers), a ladder for ventilation duties, and a medic unit. If the structure has smoke or fire visible on arrival we will ask for another engine company and depending on the weather and size and exposures we may fill the box. As for coordination the first arriving officer establishes command and does a walk around the structure to assess fire location and extent. He/she stays in front of the structure and establishes subsidiary commands like staging, triage, transport, and logistics. As a more senior officer or Batallion Chief arrives command passes to them. The entire incident is given a tactical radio frequency for fire ground operations and a dispatcher in the safety center is on the frequency until the incident ends. Command is from a Chiefs buggy and manpower tags from each firefighter on the scene are held there for accountability.
Very similar to what we are doing in Australia, but with some differences. Dial down your flow rate. Pumping huge amounts of water will create steam, reducing visibility, increasing discomfort and the risk of steam burn. Straight nozzle into the over pressure area above your head will not provide a reliable indicator of the temperature as the droplets are too large and are more likely just bouncing back off the ceiling. A quick shot of fog spray will be absorbed quicker and more completely, thus aiding in cooling the fire gases. Door entry, we paint the door as shown here but if also create a 3D flame trap with a fog spray over our head to cool the escaping gases. Every door, inside is treated the same way, not just the exterior doors. If you get the chance to practice in a flashover cell, see if you can compare straight jet to fog and see if it makes a difference. Every fire is different of course, but it's in our own interests to share and learn. :)
Good stuff and we've actually tried it instead of bashing it with what has always been done. It works.
Of course you know firefighters if Ben Carson wrote a piece on neurosurgery they'd say that knew better.
some nice tricks to use for hose crews.
Fire within an enclosed structure can create an explosive situation. Flash over or back draft. Understand how the smoke is exiting can tell what is going on inside. Ventilating is important if it is at the roof. An open door can create a bomb of smoke and gasses of fire that create an explosion. And every fire and building is different.
Well done! greatings from Austria (Europe)
Is that Australia you mean? (Im american)
+TheGreatSheikh en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria :)
+Chrissi Ha sorry I'm not american, I know where Austria is
Thank you for these videos.
I know this was 7 years ago but holy crap the door man not wearing a BA in the smoke?
why are all training videos in less that 360p
Great video, Thank you
Excuse the question. I am a Japanese firefighter. When entering a building, be sure to secure it with ropes between the members. It seems that it is not secured as a video, but is it okay? I'm sorry in a strange question.
Not necessarily here only time any type of rope or strap is used in hose lines is on high rise fires when they go straight up there center of a stairwell
@@jasonwolfe6266 Thanks. So it's about changing with circumstances. Sorry for the weird English translation.
We run 3 man engine comp. You wouldn’t pull a single FF from another engine or truck to keep a man at the front for door control. A competent engineer can absolutely feed line, but they don’t have time to sit there and hold the door shut
Food for thought with door control. How many homes have outward swinging doors?
Same principal bereal2us....if the door swings inwards it can be controlled with web-strapping, rope, or other suitable means. Not sure about how many have outward swinging vs. inward doors. Perhaps that's regional???
+bereal2us Hook the door with your halligan and pull it closed to the point that the bar is between the door and the jamb. That keeps it closed but doesn't allow it to accidently lock closed
njdevfan69 I know the concept. How often will this happen when we have multiple crews entering and finding a body committed to this task.
Great Job LAFD!!!
awesome video
Did anyone but me see a crossed stream from the lead on the line? Also the commentator spoke of taking a leg out of the fire and then it appeared that they continued to attack. Am I misunderstanding something? Was the fire not extinguished when a leg was taken out? What normally comes after extinguishment in the LA County FD?
What he means about taking a leg out is just letting the steam conversion choke out the fire and cooling the gases at the ceiling. It wont extinguish it, but will knock it down enough to make conditions a bit more safe to advance the line. That's how I took it anyway.
Fire triangle. Fuel, Heat, Oxygen. Reducing temp is essentially removing the heat "leg" of the fire. Or by keeping door closed limiting entrainment of air is removing oxygen "leg"
With three man crew (Driver, Officer, FF), is it the driver/operator that is controlling the door after charging the line until the next unit arrives, allowing the two man interior team (Officer & FF) to make the attack?
I think this video should be updated, I don’t think current research supports these tactics.
THANK YOU !!!!
If you use a streight stream you create a termal invetion
any thoughts on smoke explosion with door control?
If sufficient cooling of the smoke is applied it shouldn't carry enough heat to auto ignite. We have a similar method in Australia but we use a fog pattern rather than a jet, once we can attack the seat of the fire we dribble the water into it so the investigators can effectively do their job
100% agree! (Aussie FF too). Fog pattern will get you to the seat of the fire, where then you can use a more direct stream :)
some good shit.
hola
L.A.C0.F.D. 🚒🚑
Why a straight stream? If known that no one is inside. Again, why a straight stream? Have you ever entered with a full fog? Fog will instantly create water and steam (and create a cool area for the fighters) Steam will snuff out the fire quickly. Just make sure no one is in there as the thermal balance will be drawn down. It is a known fact that a full fog nozzle can put out mass fires faster than a straight stream. (attention to the first attack nozzle) A 2 and a half inch hose (line) with 200 lbs pressure at the nozzle at full fog will extinguish lots of fire very quickly. It is almost like using the deck gun which does the same in a straight stream with lots of pressure. Experiment with it with practice burns. Find out what works best. You may be amazed.
I live in NY I can tell you this wouldn't work
Fires in NY burn differently?
iaffjake I 'think' he's saying that with an engrained culture within New York it would be very difficult to make this work. Problem with many larger cities is that it takes more time to bring about change; whether good or bad. I hope eventually FDNY members see the benefits of this and other modern scientific findings (such as SLICErs, softening the target etc). There will always be naysayers.....remember some people still don't believe in climate change ;)
Please don't associate a deep well of liberal ideology with a "new" fire tactic.
It won't work in NY because the construction, streets, hydrants apparatus and manpower make it different. Three person Engine ??? Door control? ??? Theres twenty guys in the doorway, and the door has a 50-50 shot of being RIPPED off hinges. Experience is the best research, and those with experience know getting in there with a TFT using straight or fog as needed while Truck is venting works best. Hitting it from the outside with a pre connect means you were WASTING TIME, because you should have made entry already. Im retired and living in Utah.... and here, probably cant do things like in NY, because construction, water, distances, response times, manpower, etc are all DIFFERENT. Here, theres often 2 Jakes on a pumper, and theres not 20 on duty... so i suppose these ideas are more applicable.
Ever seen the movie backdraft? There's a sign somewhere in that movie that says Chicago Fire Dept-200 years, unimpeded by progress. Same mentality as FDNY. Silliness.