Schedule a Consultation: nickpardini.com Vote on Where I Should Visit: forms.gle/v9DSkcpTL7cScGdu9 Old Money Reading List/Substack: nickpardini.substack.com/subscribe
they only control us because that second amendment hasn't been exercised enough. The founding fathers were very intelligent men. They also warned us about central banks/fiat currency.
Just wanted to point out you forgot to mention Brown at the beginning. Great video though, very informative and accurate (full disclosure: I went to Brown for grad school)
I thought this was pretty spot on. I think most of the Ivy League success comes from people who come from families that are already wealthy, not individual merit. As someone from a middle class background who through athletics got a scholarship to Deerfield Academy and then went on to be a recruited athlete at an Ivy. Internships and job opportunities have more to do with family connections than your grades.
There are still opportunities for those who earned their place based on merit. The system isn’t perfect but it’s still more meritocratic than other countries. The cream does rise to the top.
I would also say that ivy leagues don’t have much to offer; if you are autodidactic, it is usually better to study topics on your own with online resources.
That is not my lived experience regarding internships and job opportunities. Perhaps (generously) 200 people in my Ivy graduating class got some kind of job help via family connections, and that is across all fields, not just finance/consulting. What IS messed up is how early you need to be investment-banking-conversant to get an IB internship now that recruiting has moved up so early. You should talk more about that.
I thought my Ivy League law degree would be my ticket into the ruling establishment class but being short and having Chinese DNA closed more doors than the Ivy League degree opened. I was tolerated by the establishment elite overlords so long as I knew my place, which was to do all the grunt work that enabled the establishment's wealth, power, and prestige.
I have friends who are trying to enter one institution that belongs to the ivy league from abroad and they are almost for sure going to fail because they are white men from Europe. In their application they have to sob and make themselves victims to earn a shot against the "marginalized" women from other continents who have lower grades. The world sucks so much ass. Your experience sucked but DEI is also straight garbage.
I find that there are two feedback loops in play. The first is how Asian Americans are expected to be the “model minority”, which is clearly not a complement. It suggests the idea of hard work, obedience, and “knowing your place”. But meanwhile, a lot Asian parents also value those things and indoctrinate their children to be obedient. So in the end, you are being taken advantage of both your hard work and lack of assertiveness.
Chinese in CA here, couldnt speak for others, but personally I will never jump back into the self pitty hole again, when u put everything against you because of race and looks, whole world turned against u which is not true and enjoyable. But I find many times ask and show up matters way more than sit for a hard degree and expect things to happen. Hard world we living in(24M)
Also Greek clubs are another “secret society” where people make connections. I even hear that many Greek clubs have answer keys to past exams which senior students pass down to junior students, and since many professors do not update their exams every semester, those in the Greek clubs have a competitive advantage since they already know the answers, while everyone else had to study hard to receive decent grades.
This isn't a secret, most frats and sororities have past exams. I wasn't in a frat but my friend was and gave me access. Now a days I'm sure there are past exams for courses posted online as well.
Every instructor knows this. Back when I taught chemistry I used to have review sessions for the whole class where I'd cover past exams so not only those who were in clubs or had access to them knew what was going to be on the exam. On the more difficult math classes I had the instructors would give previous exams and you could sit with them to go over the especially hairy problems
@@raul0ca I’d say most students forget at least half of what they learned after the exam. Only those with a passion for learning will eventually integrate what they learned into their own framework. That’s why PhD is called a Doctor of Philosophy, because you are supposed to have a “philosophy” of your own.
Of course that at every school the older students know what is at the exam. It’s up to everyone to be proactive and make friends to get their experience.
I was a supervisor at an Ivy League school and these kids are extremely focused on their academics. Most of the first year and second years have never even been on a date. Furthermore, the resources and tools that these students get access to is vast. Business students have access to Capital IQ, Factset, and Bloomberg terminals.
To be fair, most people in my highschool or university have never been on a date here in Finland. That's because everyone is an incel today, and afraid to talk to people at that age, and Finns are very introverted
I wouldn't say we are a caste system yet, as even Ivies can be accessed via merit. However, I have been considering doing a video about the possible formation of one in the Western world.
@@AFNickI’d like to see the data on how likely a non-recruited-athlete non-legacy non-Jewish white heterosexual cisgender male with no disabilities and who comes from a lower-middle to middle class background is to be accepted to the Ivy undergrad programs compared to other demographics with equivalent GPA and standardized test scores.
@ I’d love to know just how underrepresented. I was accepted, but I was a recruited athlete. I never met one from that particular demographic, even with perfect test scores, who was accepted. That’s why I ask.
I really recommend reading about Pierre Bourdieu’s theory of habitus, economic, cultural, and social capital. Connections fall into the social capital category. People from different class backgrounds also tend to have different “habituses”. For example, people like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg can afford to make riskier decisions such as dropping out of college, because they were born in upper middle class families and have plenty of safety nets to fall back on if they fail, and this effects their risk assessment.
Very true. I currently attend what many may consider an ivy plus (Emory) and the opportunities we have are simply amazing. I have friends at ivy leagues and I wouldn’t say there’s too much of a difference in the opportunities we get. I’m a sociology and data science major and am currently set to make at least 100k post-grad in consulting…which mainly targets these ivy/ivy plus schools. As someone that comes from a poor background, it’s a crazy reality! Both of my roommates parents graduated from MIT and they’ve recommended me for a few internship opportunities. Crazy stuff! I’m forever grateful
@@Macandcheeseenthusiast1214 regionally, I think Emory is exceptional. However, I think the Ivies unique advantage is their networks that expand far beyond their local areas (something Emory does not have).
Love that this topic is being covered. I’m currently reading this book called Ebony and Ivy by Craig Steven Wilder which covers the history and founding of American Universities, specifically the Ivy Leagues. Very interesting, thanks!
Great video as always! Wanted to provide an interesting quote I read on the internet: "Attending an Ivy-Plus instead of a flagship public college triples students’ chances of obtaining jobs at prestigious firms and substantially increases their chances of earning in the top 1%." Many people say that those who made it into the ivy league by merit would have been successful going to a state school. I honestly think that's a bit facetious. I went to an ivy and knew many low income / first-gen students who would have never even learned about investment banking or consulting if they had attended their flagship state school. For first gen / low-income students an ivy league degree has immense benefits. That being said, due to class barriers there are many good students who are not able to attend these institutions.
I grew up lower class and graduating from Cornell university (1999) changed my life I would never be financially upper class now if it wasn’t for my experience
Some colleges are outside the Ivy League but are informally Ivy League schools, universities Stanford University, MIT, and Duke University just to name a few.
I would add the University of Chicago, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Berkeley to that list too. UCLA, Notre Dame, and UVA are close, to the cut line as well.
@@AFNick I've published a peer-reviewed paper on university endowments. I can tell you that is correct, it can make more sense by looking at the size of the university endowment. This is a fascinating topic. Having worked in academia and having lived in China the Ivy League schools come up. My conclusions are graduates are marginally better at being students, and no better at being employees. Ppl want degrees from there for their own self image or prestige. It's similar to college sports, while many come from strong programs like Alabama football or Duke basketball, it's not a lock they were inherit the earth. Unless you're from the higher class going to an ivy is preparing you to be a great worker bee, much like the Chinese guy says above.
As a Yale graduate, I can testify that it is neither privilege nor merit. It is pure luck. They have categories of people that they are looking for, and if you check the particular boxes that they are looking for when your application comes up, then you're in. If you don't, then you're out.
@@AFNick Sure, you have to have prime qualifications, but ALL applicants have those, or they don't even bother to apply. That can't be called 'merit' because if it were just merit they'd pick the top X percent based on SATs and grades. But if you're part of that pool, it's just a lottery.
@@AFNickIt would reduce their prestige. Prestige schools are like luxury goods, the more they cost and the less they admit, the higher their perceived value
They were billionaires because they come from wealthy families that can afford the cost and prep to get into Ivy League not because Ivy League produce billionaires.
One example is that wealthy parents will pay for SAT preps with 1-on-1 tutors. Or the student won’t have to worry about getting a part-time job and can focus 100% on sports & academics.
@@celica9098 As a tutor, SAT tutoring can only help so much. You need raw IQ because the SAT is really an IQ test in spite of what they say. Also, the more intelligent and diligent can do side gigs and still study, and in fact it's a truism that "the more you do, the more you CAN do."
@ Let’s assume you have a rich kid & a poor kid of equal intelligence. The tutoring would make a HUGE difference. This is from first hand experience as a tutor myself.
There are certain hierarchies in universities, there are the Ivy League plus, then bellow there are the flagship state universities, and below that there is the second tier state university then come for-profit universities.
Another observation is that undergrad degree from an ivy or stanford is way more valuable than a grad degree. It first sounds nonsense but going to ivy for undergrad shows that there's a good chance that you are coming from a certain background. You also build stronger bonds with your friends which will become your network soon.
@@AFNick undergrad admissions is also more biased towards raw IQ and writing ability while grad admissions will reward professional experience and time management more
You are the most important RUclipsr on earth. This isn't an understatement man. The work you do for shedding light on money is more important than any entertainment nonsense anybody can consume.
Due to ny circles I have come across a few people who studied in the Ivy league schools. They have to always plaster around where they studied. The only guy that's pleasant is from Thailand and he never mentioned that he went to Yale. Someone else told me about it. He is by far the most accomplished out of the rest and his dedication to his family is absolute.
I'm surprised that you didn't include Brown. The U.S. treasury secretary and many others in prominent positions went to Brown for their liberal undergrad education. Bank of America's CEO, Brian Monihan is also a brown alum. As an aside, I have noticed that a number of left leaning think tanks funded by the Rockefeller foundation (John D. Rockefeller Jr graduated from Brown) and left leaning media outlets (CNN was created by Ted Turner, brown alum) tend to have links to that school. Andrew Yang who is best known for pushing universal Basic income, is also a graduate of Brown and Columbia Law. I find it interesting that a lot of left leaning ideology can be linked to some affiliation with Brown.
Very interesting topic. One exception to the private school advantage is the New York public magnet schools. Stuyvesant, Bronx School of Science, Brooklyn Tech, etc. Stuyvesant, for example, has an Ivy League acceptance of 25%.
@ probably boarding school for the networking opportunities and lighter workload. If you are focused on STEM, you might get better internships and research opportunities at Stuyvesant, though. But many if not most of the people who go to the top magnet schools in nyc come from families from the working or low middle class. They also get into top 20 schools at a similar rate as the elite private schools. So it’s a great opportunity that allows people from less privileged backgrounds move up.
My grandfather went to Princeton, then Harvard Law. Unfortunately he didn't offer any guidance in my education or application process... probably because he went to Princeton, then Harvard Law. I don't know about the graduates of today but his generation is of the hippie era and such people do not believe in dynasties. Maybe some of them grew out of it but those that I know never let go of their left-leaning activism, himself becoming a Civil Rights Lawyer. Ironically, he's a straight white man so he is now facing a lack of tolerance in the very field he chose to pursue.
My parents are that generation. I hate that generation. I have never seen a generation before or since that was so resistant to information. Also they are the most selfish generation I have observed. The generations I have personally observed are the ww2 generation, the silent generation, baby boomer generation, millennials, gen Z, gen A, and I am young Gen X. Did I mention that I hate boomers? I really do.
@@TurinShroud yep, totally normal to diminish your own prodigy their future. Their opportunities, put down their past, put down your own forefathers and then work as hard as you can to hand everything off to foreigners on your way out. And think it's a virtue. What an amazing thing to witness.
Important work you're doing here, Nick. And thank you for that. You're very knowledgeable. My take is that the fact that the majority of Ivy Leaguers are not legacy students shows that while the League may be responsible for assimilating the preferred members of the lower class into the upper (ruling) class, it is not itself the main mechanism by which the ruling class is maintained. The ruling class is that group of people who make rules others follow. Correlating to the three factors of production, land, labor, and capital, these are landlords, bosses, and capitalists, who establish rules for tenants, workers, and debtors. Their positions are maintained through the privilege of private property and inheritance. Ivy Leaguers represent the elites of the ruling class and offer a means of class mobility to elites of lower classes, so that through their acquired titles of nobility, essentially, they can gain access to the factors of production instead of solidifying into "counter-elites." Ruling class elites are basically the executive members of the ruling class. Lower class elites, if not assimilated into the ruling class, become counter-elites, such as labor, tenant, and debtor organizers, in efforts of socialism or anarchism, and are usually themselves assimilated instead into the managerial class through "business unionism" or "yellow unionism," despite their original opposition and refusal of full assimilation into the ruling class.
Maybe but Jeff Bezos did Electrical Computer Engineering from Princeton, Elon Musk did Physics from UPenn, Mike Bloomberg did ECE from John’s Hopkins (Ivy plus) and loads of folks have Math/CS/Engineering degrees from Ivies are at the top of their careers in tech
@@thinkingcitizen As an ECE major I agree, having an elite degree in CS or ECE has been more important than ever due to how competitive it is. However, my point is that when it comes to law/politics/finance, Ivy Leagues rank at the top by far. But for Engineering, Caltech, MIT, Berkeley, John Hopkins, Stanford, some other schools like even Michigan just rank higher than Ivies in engineering. Only Ivy I think is known for engineering is Princeton.
This explains the grading system at ivy’s where everyone gets a good GPA. If you graded on a curve, the half who aren’t top students would get crushed and the money would and status would stop flowing in.
Not really. The gentleman C used to be just fine. It'l really just that they have gotten soft like the rest of society--it's hard to be the only one maintaining standards although that by itself just speaks to how they aren't setting the standards anymore. And there is a lot of fakery, such as with the plagiarism scandals.
I saw this during my matriculation at an Ivy (Business School). I’m not from a wealthy background and a minority. Scholarships and grants enabled me to attend. My experience was eye opening and the networking/connections made are the sole advantage. It can be seen as unfair with the leg up you get at an institution like this. It does open doors and has surpassed my expectations in terms of investment & ROI.👨🏽🎓
Man I can relate to this to some extent ,I myself graduated from a top undergrad school in my country and the sentiment shared is here. As of now, I am in a law school that is considered up there in the country too ( biggest thing I notice is how they fill up government positions fast!)
In India, its IITs and IIMs. Interestingly, most of the IIT Students immigrate to the US for higher opportunities. That's why you see, many corporations like Google, McKinsey are run by IITian as CEO or founder. (4/11/24)
I went to Brown for my Masters degree and worked as a research scientist at the University shortly thereafter. I can tell you from first hand experience that success post grad depends a great deal on how much you’ve networked and/or participated in certain clubs while a student and also how much you’ve kissed ass.
The biggest difference is between the elite boarding schools and public schools. John Taylor Gatto investigated it and made a video about it. Some of the things I remember him saying about boarding schools: 1) From a young age, lots of writing without much emphasis on grammar rules (that comes later), just write! Write a diary or personnel journal, write fictional stories too. For example, you can start with a dog, a cat, and a horse, and write an adventure story about them. Write a lot! 2) Public speaking, they push public speaking from a young age. The audience can be 2-3 people sitting on a park bench, doesn't matter! 3) They learn about all the major religions of the world, public schools - no religion at all. 4) an understanding of human nature: what makes people tick. 5) The classics, learning how to think for yourself, the trivium. Grammer, rhetoric, and logic. unheard of in public schools. 6) Access to people of different professions, truckers, Plumbers, cops, doctors, local politicians, etc, etc. Write them a personal letter asking to shadow them for a day or more. There's more, but that's what I know off the top of my head.
While teaching catholic parochial school junior high I also guided canoe trips at a Canadian youth camp whose clientele were heavily enrolled in elite boarding schools. You are correct in your assertion that there is really no comparison between public school and boarding school. For one thing kids who go to boarding school feel like they own the world, which is not to imply that I found this to be disagreeable.
Holy crap. I knew Ivy League held an advantage over the rest of us, but not THIS much. I know you said otherwise in another comment, but as someone who comes from a half-broken family in the Deep South, this analysis screams "America's caste system."
@AFNick “it’s who you know not what you know” Merit: Quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward Any successful individual I’ve ever met who has any humility at all has acknowledged they are only there because others have them a chance, even if they weren’t the best. Labor data shows networking is more important than direct skills or ability. Merit is literally not as good as soft skills and connections. Usually people with lots of money hire others who have lots of money or at least can fit into their social and financial class network. It’s not rocket science, it’s a social science. The marketing of an individual is with average ability can and will beat talent because of how humans socialization works. (This doesn’t include any protege level of talent/skill as that is an outlier statistically) But who knows. Idk I’m just a dumbass on the internet
I’m just nitpicking the use of “merit” I have no real qualms with your takes, I mean I’m watching your channel so you got some things good to listen to
I ended up working at a prestigious SV law firm where a solid half of the partners came from Ivy League law schools. I was worried I was going to be out of my league since I didn’t get into an Ivy. And … it was a non issue. I never felt I was outclassed by any other lawyer. It’s not that they aren’t good, it’s just that you can’t tell by meeting or reviewing their work product. I think we can make gross distinctions in intelligence with testing, but you can’t tell the difference between someone in the top 5% or top 10% through testjng. At all.
I will always say go to your local community college. 1. It’s cheaper 2. It’s equip for the local market, mine is FRCC and they are very aware of what local employers want in the workforce. 3. That degree is probably similar in value to Ivy League degree 80% of the time.
@@AFNickYou’re paying for the connection opportunities. Although people there likely already have a lot of those connections. 99 percent of people aren’t going to fall in the ivy category and that’s ok
If you come from a disadvantaged background, then chances are you have to think differently from the way your parents think. You don’t want to inherit their “habitus” (read Pierre Bourdieu) or else you’ll not be able to achieve upward social mobility, because their “habitus” certainly contributed to their poverty.
No mention of US Military Academy; Naval Academy or Air Force Academy. They produce some outstanding well balanced/rounded persons too…. And I never met an Ivy League graduate (or Stanford; MIT; Johns Hopkins; etc.) in the military.
There are plenty of Ivy League veterans, and they are very common in politics. Notable examples include JD Vance, George W. Bush, Pete Buttigieg, and Ron Desantis
West Point, AFA, and the Naval Academy are up with there with the Ivies in terms of prestige, but the service requirements narrow the pool of applicants.
@@AFNick yet in 30 years of service I never met one. For example, Graham and Desantis were lawyers… not trigger pullers. I knew a number of USMA graduates but never MET an Ivy League graduate.
There absolutely are officers who did undergrad at ivies. They primarily commission through ROTC, but I've met a doctor who did undergrad at Princeton. It's just not advertised because...well its the military and your undergrad isn't relevant(unless its from a service academy or other military academy)
I turned down Brown in favor of Stanford (for a graduate program in Political Science). Stanford is the reigning “it” school, but I lost the opportunity to gain the imprimatur of a true Ivy League education. I had no legacy factor in my favor nor any connection to an endowment contribution. I also earned what most would consider a “sub-Ivy” M.S. at Johns Hopkins University. I work at the MITRE Corporation as a Principal Consultant.
Nick - sorry if I missed it - I am curious if you have coined a name for your American Class Hierarchy conception/model. If you Google the term, it only shows single-pyramid traditional models, and yours is quite novel (in a good way), so it would be nice to know a specific term/phase if one exists. It would also help people credit you if/when others reference your model, now and in the future.
I came up with it myself and just call it the American class hierarchy model or the dual pyramid of social class in America. If it needs a more unique name, call it the Pardini Pyramid of Social Class 😂
I am from the UK and i am applying to Princeton for physics PhD. Not going to lie this video doesn’t give me much hope, even if ranked first place in undergrad, with research experience. Though UK has some issues with Oxford and Cambridge for similar reasons. I applied to Cambridge for undergrad and got rejected, however I have to admit they mostly only care if you’re are smart and interviews tend to be asking really hard questions in the subject you are applying for. There is still some benefits for being rich (but almost no benefits for being legacy).
11:21 correction. This example is outdated and the source saying all 9 justices attended Harvard and Yale was most likely written before Barrett’s appointment.
The term “corporate culture” is a way of saying “If you didn’t attend an Ivy (or at least a Pac 10) school you won’t fit into our corporate culture/won’t be invited to the yacht parties, wine tasting events, and won’t fit in. Sorry, that’s going to keep you from many jobs.” I went to a state university and found this to be true whether it was a law firm or a non-profit. Actually, non-profits are worse. Doesn’t matter that I was an honors student and the best in my class at my “low tier” university. I didn’t fit in with the elites.
PAC-10? I had to chuckle at this given the state of that conference now and the fact that they went from adding two extra schools to losing 10 schools since they were called the PAC-10; but I digress.
@ It’s just a way to say “West Coast Ivy League” since we don’t tend to have Ivy colored older buildings like on the East Coast. I believe the “Ivy League” is a term that came out of college football as well. I might be wrong, don’t correct me on that as I don’t actually care.
I gotta add some stuff more, in certain countries there are Ivy-league level colleges/universities but their is a schism between the two or three positions of power ( for context I am not an American BUT I sort of have seen these three classifications from my own point view ) - Universities that create the new rich/ entrepreneurial stars in what we think of in the modern context/ people who joined new trends to make money - the old rich that will inherit the big businesses/ will be the one to acquire key companies to add to their portfolio. - the government/state worker elite. These people are the ones you see being commissioners/heads of state mandated/constitutionally mandated offices of government ( ones that can never be abolished ) and basically will have their children in these government jobs for life But a new and emerging one I have been noticing from my country is an elite that come from decent universities/ underrated colleges BUT picked courses that where worth it such as Computer Science, Accounting, Finance , Actuary and the like who will then join and work for atleast murmors foreign companies will then come back to set businesses we you never have heard of yet generate profit margins in the millions of dollars. People like these are either in the startup scene/ real estate/ passive investing side of things here. They use their foreign currency to basically buy things out and use business/professional education to make bank. One thing that sets them apart is that early in their career, they are the ones you see being sent to foreign trips or working in projects that are in top financial districts such as New York/ tech hubs in California for a temporary period then next thing you know they got their own business both in the country and either a branch/subsidiary in the USA or purchase old businesses there and make it was their own. ( I am sure you have met these people Nick, they work the hardest and you see them make most out of their foreign incursions if not become permanent residents in speeds most people dream of ) Hope this helps Nick!!!
I can't help but notice that rates of legacy admissions to these organizations haven't been affected by "diversity" initiatives. I also can't help but recall that the first "Woman of color" to be a Professor at Harvard Law was Elizabeth Warren. I have had the privilege to work with HYPMIT geniuses, Nick here reminds me of them. Unbelievably diligent, competent, and driven people. I've also had the misfortune of "working" with Ivy grads who grew up wealthy, marry wealthy, and will die wealthy. Great video.
I have family that went to Yale and Columbia (and Stanford on the other side) and it’s mostly merit but in the case of my cousin who went to Yale, her dad made a huge donation and she was an athlete too so the admissions offices are greedy af also. With Columbia, it was generations back and they became professors after. With Stanford, they went for grad degrees and were already rising up in Silicon Valley. A mentor of mine went to university college London and came from a lower class family but that was in the 50s. I’d never send my future kids to an Ivy after seeing how they handled covid. Strictly SEC schools.
In my experience, legacy does not matter, I was a double legacy to an Ivy League university through both of my parents with a 2300+ SAT non superscored and very high gpa with AP classes, self studied AP tests, numerous 800 subject tests, president of my school’s debate team, etc, and I did not get in. From my parents wide social network of Alumni families, I only knew two kids my age who got into the school as legacies, both of them claimed to be Hispanic on their application, one had a Cuban parent and the other was a double legacy that reclaimed Spanish citizenship through Sephardic ancestry. I think that most successful legacy applicants also found some way to fit into some diversity group so as to allow the university to meet its legacy quotas and diversity quotas, even if the legacies fudge the story a bit on just how ‘diverse’ they are. I ended up going to a top 50 school in the country and absolutely regret it. Even being at a christian school, and being in the business school there, I found myself exiled from pretty much all social networks for my conservative political beliefs and I didnt fit in with the unserious Greek life kids which were the only social groups that were not explicitly political groups that didn’t exclude right of center students, but does exclude nerds. And those explicitly political groups that are against the university’s cultish consensus have meetings that are basically like funerals with how depressed everyone is being at the university. Anyway, I left college with very few useful social/business connections from the experience, I ended up underemployed taking a low starting salary where I had coworkers without college degrees, but thankfully older people went to college before it was an ideological indoctrination center, and I have risen up the ranks of my company pretty fast. I would not recommend that anyone who is not willing to fully buy into leftist ideology go to an elite college because you will certainly find yourself isolated, you will not get the vaunted ‘connections’ - you will in fact be shunned, and you will have to pay government-backed-loan-inflated tuition for the privilege. Start your career early, I could be the same place I am now years earlier if I did that, if you want to party you don’t need to pay for classes to do it, and you won’t have a title 9 kangaroo court breathing down your neck if you sleep with someone either.
It’s so true! Most of US universities, not just Ivy League, are a Propaganda Department of the same one political party in their country. Their researchers are biased, dissidents silenced and thrown out, even beaten. Inconvenient research projects are de-funded and shut down. The Old Money and most of billionaires go with it as the Dems policies guarantee their survival. Billionaire class is aligned with underclass against Middle Class.
I’ve gotta say the schools are like organisms which will try to reject you like a virus if you don’t fit in. Conservative political beliefs are big right now, but there are other characteristics they will get you on otherwise. I was lucky to be in school back with old school liberals who would simply mark you down a grade for giving the correct but not popular answer. 😂🤣 Went to the Army which was full of Conservatives, but had a bias against high IQ and my personality as measured by the Myers Briggs test. Never really fit in anywhere because there was ALWAYS influential people who wanted to get rid of me. The best I could do was either be in a company where I wasn’t one of the higher IQ people (elite tech) or a smaller company where the owner realized my value and protected me. Still, through all that, I avoided so many of the calamities that ruin normal people’s lives because I was just smart enough or wise enough to see them coming before they really hurt me. So, it worked out fine for me.
As a foreigner myself , my best shot in the Ivy League are either PHDs and a good old MBA/LLM which I want since I am moving to the USA in the future ( just gotta finish my law school here and work for some time )
11:30 this is a great point - what does it mean socially that all nine Supreme court judges are from Harvard or Yale? Will they all protect their common class interests? (Of being priviledged Ivy League students)
To me, Ivy League is just a great accomplishment! something to be proud of. ✨ I can’t imagine what the legacy students at Harvard are going through. amazing. 🙇🏻♀️
I think what surprised me was the admissions rate earlier than the 1970's. The fact that it was higher than I initially expected, compared to today's admissions environment.
“When you buy rich people chocolate and I buy poor people chocolate, the chocolate we both eat doesn’t taste that much different, but when you pay tens of thousands of US dollars to prepare your kid from toddler age to compete for Ivy League places by the time they turn 18 and finish high school, that money You have invested in your child devalues the quality of education that the poor kids receive rendering them incapable of competing with your rich Ivy League prepped child.” I read something like this from the Meritocracy trap
Interesting fact, for the last 50 years the amount of students in Ivy league grew by 34%, while US population grew by 65%, which means that's over last 50 years Ivy league education became even more exclusive.
One of my high school friends went to an Ivy League school, which was unusual for kids from my small town public schools (even though we had a good school system). She wasn't a genius or high achiever/intellectual nor was her family wealthy. Her mom knew how the application system worked, so she got in. Anyway, at her first job out of college in the mid 1990s she was making 6 figures as a project manager in tech--about $330,000 in 2024 money. She had no skills or knowledge in the field that would justify that--I don't remember her major, but it was probably something like English literature. It took me several years working in STEM, then in tech, and racking up credentials and publications/patents to make as much money as she did just starting out as a doofus new grad. It seemed like just another "track" system like the high school AP/college track sets people up for a professional job.
This is off-topic, but im wondering what you think about the effect of sdr's and the bis is on triffin's paradox. Thanks for the great work you put out!
Merit in this case equates to robotic talent. I’m not gifted at the formalities of writing for academia. I can write papers that my teachers enjoy, but I had never learned how to write researched material on the level of a researcher. I think that it does require a certain talent, and robotic mindset. I struggle just to follow instructions but I have managed to make how I function in school work for me. Most of life isn’t reliant on people educated by Ivy League schools. Those schools are useful in churning out high level worker bees who can perform mentally strenuous tasks. They are not geared to think out of the box so any other person does have a chance if they focus on one task, and master it.
Your comment begs the question on how ChatGPT and LLMs affect the value of an Ivy League education. As the quote in the beginning of the video says, it’s more about what you learn outside the classroom than in it.
@ It does affect the Ivy League and also those who likely went to an Ivy League or are talented in this regard created those versions of AI. They’re in a loop, and it doesn’t matter until they misinform the masses through our media outlets. The question of to what extent does the misinformation that is flooding the internet affects the data bank that AI is pulling from should be asked. We will all be in a loop of misinformation.
You forgot Brown University. I did not attend an Ivy League institution. Yet, I did have 1 teacher from Harvard. Being a San Francisco native 🌁, most of my teachers who received a degree from a major research institution are from Cal or Stanford. You are right ✅.
I will admit. I am a little jealous. I didnt do my best during high school. Still landed a finance degree from Texas A&M. One of my biggest regrets in life. 😢
As a low income merit student, i would still prefer to balance between making connections with ultra rich somewhatsmart kids and academic genius than colleges like MIT or CalTech.
You said that the chances of getting into an Ivy League were 1% public school VS 33% private school. Is this controlled for variables like grades, SAT scores, and parental income? Because I’m sure public school applicants have lower SAT scores on average.
@ So if we compare top tier of elite boarding schools VS public school students, what would be the possible stats if we control for this aforementioned variables?
@AFNick - What are your thoughts on schools who are members of the Association of American Universities (AAU) - an association of 71 leading research universities in the US and Canada? Membership is by invitation only.
You completely missed the fact that Cornell is New York State's land grant school with a different tuition and admissions for NYS residence. All you need is to have a B or an average a from a community college or non competitive SUNY and you have good chance of being accepted. However you are limited to; NYS College of Human Ecology, The College of Agriculture and Life Sciences (CALS), and School of Industrial & Labor Relations. The Vet school also a SUNY is post graduate. Having done this myself (plus being apart of the ADA quota for being dyslexia) and known a lot low income farm kids there is back door into the Ivy's. Whether is is more of assist or liability I'm still not sure.
At least the ones who attended ivory leagues that I know, they grew up in government housing and first gen immigrants with parents working odd jobs. They are just highly motivated people because they saw how their parents suffered from being poor. Mind you, the were all valedictorian’s from a local high school. I live in a city where pretty much ever attended an Ivy League, I don’t know any rich people. Many they are secretly.
around the seven minute, 40 second mark you said they don't offer academic scholarships I think what you meant to say is they don't offer athletic scholarships
An Episcopal monastic order in Cambridge, Massachusetts has or at least had a back door into Harvard Divinity School so I spent a week there interviewing. Although some of the inmates were quite sociable and seemed normal enough the vocations director, now deceased, asked me so many stupid questions that I bluntly informed him that I found it impossible to take him seriously and went so far as to challenge him to prove to me that i could actually trust him. He was rendered speechless by my effrontery so I spent the remainder of the retreat going to the nearby Boathouse Bar to drink at least a half pint of whiskey each and every night. Apparently they select for people who are timid enough to bother with eating their shit, something they weren’t going to be getting from me having been both a nuclear submariner and a ghetto high school teacher. And yes, the inmates who were the most forthcoming with me openly admitted that the only reason they were there was to get a free Harvard degree. At that date it was fairly easy to get into the divinity school or circa 1986.
95% of students are not getting the advantage of manipulation of the admissions system. Students need to be extremely well qualified to be admitted and then they need to graduate and the students who do the best at an Ivy League school are extremely good students. It is fair to recognize that very good students come from great public and private high schools. Those people are overwhelmingly from upper middle class/ upper class backgrounds.
14:17 That's confusing. You first state Stanford to be the "leader of course" for those receiving funding toward a unicorn venture by being 1.6x more likely. But then you go on to state that a Yale graduate is 2x more likely to achieve unicorn status. How can Stanford be the leader then?
@@AFNick But this would mean a depressed likelihood amongst Stanford alumni, yes? You state in the video that they're 1.6x more likely than an average entrepreneur.
Interesting, I'm beginning to hear rumblings of change in the air. Many businesses are shunning ivy league graduates of the recent era because all the woke crap that goes into ivyness has shed off on their graduates and businesses just see them as too much of a pain in the ass. LOLOL
Thanks. So far its looking like Melbourne is the leading city in terms of votes. We have a decent amount of votes for so far across Australia but still well below the threshold. I look forward to when the day comes for me to visit!
@ I use a metric called lifespan It is falling in USA Also wealth inequality is the highest ever for USA It’s decline for 90 percent of Americans As Ed Yardeni says USA has two economies 10 percent and 90 percent
Schedule a Consultation: nickpardini.com
Vote on Where I Should Visit: forms.gle/v9DSkcpTL7cScGdu9
Old Money Reading List/Substack: nickpardini.substack.com/subscribe
they only control us because that second amendment hasn't been exercised enough.
The founding fathers were very intelligent men. They also warned us about central banks/fiat currency.
Just wanted to point out you forgot to mention Brown at the beginning. Great video though, very informative and accurate (full disclosure: I went to Brown for grad school)
I thought this was pretty spot on. I think most of the Ivy League success comes from people who come from families that are already wealthy, not individual merit. As someone from a middle class background who through athletics got a scholarship to Deerfield Academy and then went on to be a recruited athlete at an Ivy. Internships and job opportunities have more to do with family connections than your grades.
There are still opportunities for those who earned their place based on merit. The system isn’t perfect but it’s still more meritocratic than other countries. The cream does rise to the top.
Agreed
lol sounds like you got in through athletic ability, not grades.
I would also say that ivy leagues don’t have much to offer; if you are autodidactic, it is usually better to study topics on your own with online resources.
That is not my lived experience regarding internships and job opportunities. Perhaps (generously) 200 people in my Ivy graduating class got some kind of job help via family connections, and that is across all fields, not just finance/consulting. What IS messed up is how early you need to be investment-banking-conversant to get an IB internship now that recruiting has moved up so early. You should talk more about that.
I thought my Ivy League law degree would be my ticket into the ruling establishment class but being short and having Chinese DNA closed more doors than the Ivy League degree opened. I was tolerated by the establishment elite overlords so long as I knew my place, which was to do all the grunt work that enabled the establishment's wealth, power, and prestige.
The world sucks man
I have friends who are trying to enter one institution that belongs to the ivy league from abroad and they are almost for sure going to fail because they are white men from Europe. In their application they have to sob and make themselves victims to earn a shot against the "marginalized" women from other continents who have lower grades. The world sucks so much ass. Your experience sucked but DEI is also straight garbage.
I find that there are two feedback loops in play. The first is how Asian Americans are expected to be the “model minority”, which is clearly not a complement. It suggests the idea of hard work, obedience, and “knowing your place”. But meanwhile, a lot Asian parents also value those things and indoctrinate their children to be obedient. So in the end, you are being taken advantage of both your hard work and lack of assertiveness.
That’s too bad, but thanks for sharing your story.
Chinese in CA here, couldnt speak for others, but personally I will never jump back into the self pitty hole again, when u put everything against you because of race and looks, whole world turned against u which is not true and enjoyable. But I find many times ask and show up matters way more than sit for a hard degree and expect things to happen. Hard world we living in(24M)
Also Greek clubs are another “secret society” where people make connections. I even hear that many Greek clubs have answer keys to past exams which senior students pass down to junior students, and since many professors do not update their exams every semester, those in the Greek clubs have a competitive advantage since they already know the answers, while everyone else had to study hard to receive decent grades.
This isn't a secret, most frats and sororities have past exams. I wasn't in a frat but my friend was and gave me access. Now a days I'm sure there are past exams for courses posted online as well.
Every instructor knows this. Back when I taught chemistry I used to have review sessions for the whole class where I'd cover past exams so not only those who were in clubs or had access to them knew what was going to be on the exam. On the more difficult math classes I had the instructors would give previous exams and you could sit with them to go over the especially hairy problems
@@raul0ca I’d say most students forget at least half of what they learned after the exam. Only those with a passion for learning will eventually integrate what they learned into their own framework. That’s why PhD is called a Doctor of Philosophy, because you are supposed to have a “philosophy” of your own.
Of course that at every school the older students know what is at the exam. It’s up to everyone to be proactive and make friends to get their experience.
@@raul0ca Not every professor cares enough to do this lol
I was a supervisor at an Ivy League school and these kids are extremely focused on their academics. Most of the first year and second years have never even been on a date. Furthermore, the resources and tools that these students get access to is vast. Business students have access to Capital IQ, Factset, and Bloomberg terminals.
To be fair, most people in my highschool or university have never been on a date here in Finland. That's because everyone is an incel today, and afraid to talk to people at that age, and Finns are very introverted
@@tj-co9gowhat even girls.I thought Finnish girls and boys have a*x at 13-15 and you are calling yourself lonely
@@tj-co9goyour just a loser scandinavia has the most sex compared to the rest of the world
Having access to the Bloomberg terminal is insane, that’s pretty cool.
@@tj-co9gonot Finland too
The cast system in America!
I wouldn't say we are a caste system yet, as even Ivies can be accessed via merit. However, I have been considering doing a video about the possible formation of one in the Western world.
@@AFNick Yes! Please do a video on that!
@@AFNickI’d like to see the data on how likely a non-recruited-athlete non-legacy non-Jewish white heterosexual cisgender male with no disabilities and who comes from a lower-middle to middle class background is to be accepted to the Ivy undergrad programs compared to other demographics with equivalent GPA and standardized test scores.
They are definitely underrepresented versus their ratio of total population. The question is to what degree and how much it matters.
@ I’d love to know just how underrepresented. I was accepted, but I was a recruited athlete. I never met one from that particular demographic, even with perfect test scores, who was accepted. That’s why I ask.
I really recommend reading about Pierre Bourdieu’s theory of habitus, economic, cultural, and social capital. Connections fall into the social capital category. People from different class backgrounds also tend to have different “habituses”. For example, people like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg can afford to make riskier decisions such as dropping out of college, because they were born in upper middle class families and have plenty of safety nets to fall back on if they fail, and this effects their risk assessment.
Very good recommendations! La Distinction (in English, The Distinction) is something every one should read
Agreed, except William Gates III was unambiguously from an upper class family.
Very true. I currently attend what many may consider an ivy plus (Emory) and the opportunities we have are simply amazing. I have friends at ivy leagues and I wouldn’t say there’s too much of a difference in the opportunities we get. I’m a sociology and data science major and am currently set to make at least 100k post-grad in consulting…which mainly targets these ivy/ivy plus schools. As someone that comes from a poor background, it’s a crazy reality! Both of my roommates parents graduated from MIT and they’ve recommended me for a few internship opportunities. Crazy stuff! I’m forever grateful
Put me on
They just naming anything as ivy plus now 🤦♂️
@@vwpanda8403 yeah I guess so lol. Probably bc there’s similar outcomes
@@Macandcheeseenthusiast1214 regionally, I think Emory is exceptional. However, I think the Ivies unique advantage is their networks that expand far beyond their local areas (something Emory does not have).
Emory is Emory, a great school, but, you don’t have to call it a ‘Ivy plus’, sounds tacky, instant eye roll.
Love that this topic is being covered. I’m currently reading this book called Ebony and Ivy by Craig Steven Wilder which covers the history and founding of American Universities, specifically the Ivy Leagues. Very interesting, thanks!
Thanks for sharing the book.
Great video as always! Wanted to provide an interesting quote I read on the internet: "Attending an Ivy-Plus instead of a flagship public college triples students’ chances of obtaining jobs at prestigious firms and substantially increases their chances of earning in the top 1%."
Many people say that those who made it into the ivy league by merit would have been successful going to a state school. I honestly think that's a bit facetious. I went to an ivy and knew many low income / first-gen students who would have never even learned about investment banking or consulting if they had attended their flagship state school. For first gen / low-income students an ivy league degree has immense benefits.
That being said, due to class barriers there are many good students who are not able to attend these institutions.
I grew up lower class and graduating from Cornell university (1999) changed my life I would never be financially upper class now if it wasn’t for my experience
How did you change?
Thanks for sharing your story
unfortunately you were the actually smart person giving the school it's reputation, meanwhile your rich and elite classmates are riding off your back.
Some colleges are outside the Ivy League but are informally Ivy League schools, universities Stanford University, MIT, and Duke University just to name a few.
I would add the University of Chicago, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Berkeley to that list too. UCLA, Notre Dame, and UVA are close, to the cut line as well.
I wonder where Caltech is ranked in the elite universities.
It’s up there with MIT for best STEM school
@@AFNickthrow in Johns Hopkins, Rice and Carnegie Mellon
@@AFNick I've published a peer-reviewed paper on university endowments. I can tell you that is correct, it can make more sense by looking at the size of the university endowment. This is a fascinating topic. Having worked in academia and having lived in China the Ivy League schools come up. My conclusions are graduates are marginally better at being students, and no better at being employees. Ppl want degrees from there for their own self image or prestige. It's similar to college sports, while many come from strong programs like Alabama football or Duke basketball, it's not a lock they were inherit the earth. Unless you're from the higher class going to an ivy is preparing you to be a great worker bee, much like the Chinese guy says above.
As a Yale graduate, I can testify that it is neither privilege nor merit. It is pure luck. They have categories of people that they are looking for, and if you check the particular boxes that they are looking for when your application comes up, then you're in. If you don't, then you're out.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing
@@AFNick Sure, you have to have prime qualifications, but ALL applicants have those, or they don't even bother to apply. That can't be called 'merit' because if it were just merit they'd pick the top X percent based on SATs and grades. But if you're part of that pool, it's just a lottery.
That’s why prestigious universities need to expand the class sizes. It can be easily be done without diluting the quality of the student body
They have to meet the diversity quota.
@@AFNickIt would reduce their prestige. Prestige schools are like luxury goods, the more they cost and the less they admit, the higher their perceived value
They were billionaires because they come from wealthy families that can afford the cost and prep to get into Ivy League not because Ivy League produce billionaires.
Exactly.
One example is that wealthy parents will pay for SAT preps with 1-on-1 tutors. Or the student won’t have to worry about getting a part-time job and can focus 100% on sports & academics.
@@celica9098 Just being part of a stupid rowing team of some expensive private school gives them a leg up in Ivy League admissions.
@@celica9098 As a tutor, SAT tutoring can only help so much. You need raw IQ because the SAT is really an IQ test in spite of what they say. Also, the more intelligent and diligent can do side gigs and still study, and in fact it's a truism that "the more you do, the more you CAN do."
@ Let’s assume you have a rich kid & a poor kid of equal intelligence. The tutoring would make a HUGE difference. This is from first hand experience as a tutor myself.
There are certain hierarchies in universities, there are the Ivy League plus, then bellow there are the flagship state universities, and below that there is the second tier state university then come for-profit universities.
College is Overrated..
Another observation is that undergrad degree from an ivy or stanford is way more valuable than a grad degree. It first sounds nonsense but going to ivy for undergrad shows that there's a good chance that you are coming from a certain background. You also build stronger bonds with your friends which will become your network soon.
It definitely is. It’s much more difficult to get into the Ivy’s for an undergrad than it is for admission into one of their grad schools.
@@AFNick undergrad admissions is also more biased towards raw IQ and writing ability while grad admissions will reward professional experience and time management more
@@bArda26 For admission to graduate programs at Stanford for the social sciences, you are looking at an acceptance rate in the vicinity of 4%.
Babe wake up Analyzing Finance with Nick just dropped another video!!!!
You are the most important RUclipsr on earth. This isn't an understatement man. The work you do for shedding light on money is more important than any entertainment nonsense anybody can consume.
"It's all a big club, and YOU AIN'T IN IT!"
That stupid old fart would never tell you what the club actually is. George "too many white people" Carlin
Due to ny circles I have come across a few people who studied in the Ivy league schools. They have to always plaster around where they studied. The only guy that's pleasant is from Thailand and he never mentioned that he went to Yale. Someone else told me about it. He is by far the most accomplished out of the rest and his dedication to his family is absolute.
I'm surprised that you didn't include Brown. The U.S. treasury secretary and many others in prominent positions went to Brown for their liberal undergrad education.
Bank of America's CEO, Brian Monihan is also a brown alum.
As an aside, I have noticed that a number of left leaning think tanks funded by the Rockefeller foundation (John D. Rockefeller Jr graduated from Brown) and left leaning media outlets (CNN was created by Ted Turner, brown alum) tend to have links to that school.
Andrew Yang who is best known for pushing universal Basic income, is also a graduate of Brown and Columbia Law. I find it interesting that a lot of left leaning ideology can be linked to some affiliation with Brown.
I did include Brown. It’s one of the eight Ivy League schools. Brown is definitely the most politically progressive and free spirited of the Ivies.
Very interesting topic. One exception to the private school advantage is the New York public magnet schools. Stuyvesant, Bronx School of Science, Brooklyn Tech, etc. Stuyvesant, for example, has an Ivy League acceptance of 25%.
If you had an opportunity to go to Stuyvesant or a tier 1 boarding school which would you choose and why?
@ probably boarding school for the networking opportunities and lighter workload. If you are focused on STEM, you might get better internships and research opportunities at Stuyvesant, though. But many if not most of the people who go to the top magnet schools in nyc come from families from the working or low middle class. They also get into top 20 schools at a similar rate as the elite private schools. So it’s a great opportunity that allows people from less privileged backgrounds move up.
Asian percentage?
@@JK-gu3tlNative New Yorker here, it’s 70%+ Asian.
My grandfather went to Princeton, then Harvard Law. Unfortunately he didn't offer any guidance in my education or application process... probably because he went to Princeton, then Harvard Law. I don't know about the graduates of today but his generation is of the hippie era and such people do not believe in dynasties. Maybe some of them grew out of it but those that I know never let go of their left-leaning activism, himself becoming a Civil Rights Lawyer. Ironically, he's a straight white man so he is now facing a lack of tolerance in the very field he chose to pursue.
My parents are that generation. I hate that generation. I have never seen a generation before or since that was so resistant to information. Also they are the most selfish generation I have observed. The generations I have personally observed are the ww2 generation, the silent generation, baby boomer generation, millennials, gen Z, gen A, and I am young Gen X. Did I mention that I hate boomers? I really do.
Lol. He got what he wanted. Your opportunities your forefathers left you will now go to a non European non Caucasian. That was the goal correct?
@@goodbro7846 Seriously, his opportunities now go to the Chinese.
@@goodbro7846 That's right. Admission for mediocre white men is no longer a given.
@@TurinShroud yep, totally normal to diminish your own prodigy their future. Their opportunities, put down their past, put down your own forefathers and then work as hard as you can to hand everything off to foreigners on your way out. And think it's a virtue. What an amazing thing to witness.
Important work you're doing here, Nick. And thank you for that. You're very knowledgeable.
My take is that the fact that the majority of Ivy Leaguers are not legacy students shows that while the League may be responsible for assimilating the preferred members of the lower class into the upper (ruling) class, it is not itself the main mechanism by which the ruling class is maintained. The ruling class is that group of people who make rules others follow. Correlating to the three factors of production, land, labor, and capital, these are landlords, bosses, and capitalists, who establish rules for tenants, workers, and debtors. Their positions are maintained through the privilege of private property and inheritance. Ivy Leaguers represent the elites of the ruling class and offer a means of class mobility to elites of lower classes, so that through their acquired titles of nobility, essentially, they can gain access to the factors of production instead of solidifying into "counter-elites." Ruling class elites are basically the executive members of the ruling class. Lower class elites, if not assimilated into the ruling class, become counter-elites, such as labor, tenant, and debtor organizers, in efforts of socialism or anarchism, and are usually themselves assimilated instead into the managerial class through "business unionism" or "yellow unionism," despite their original opposition and refusal of full assimilation into the ruling class.
It's just network building for elite status opportunities
It makes a bigger difference if you want to get into politics, law, finance. For STEM, there are way better options.
MIT and Caltech are the leaders of STEM
Maybe but Jeff Bezos did Electrical Computer Engineering from Princeton, Elon Musk did Physics from UPenn, Mike Bloomberg did ECE from John’s Hopkins (Ivy plus) and loads of folks have Math/CS/Engineering degrees from Ivies are at the top of their careers in tech
@@thinkingcitizen As an ECE major I agree, having an elite degree in CS or ECE has been more important than ever due to how competitive it is. However, my point is that when it comes to law/politics/finance, Ivy Leagues rank at the top by far. But for Engineering, Caltech, MIT, Berkeley, John Hopkins, Stanford, some other schools like even Michigan just rank higher than Ivies in engineering. Only Ivy I think is known for engineering is Princeton.
This explains the grading system at ivy’s where everyone gets a good GPA. If you graded on a curve, the half who aren’t top students would get crushed and the money would and status would stop flowing in.
Not really. The gentleman C used to be just fine. It'l really just that they have gotten soft like the rest of society--it's hard to be the only one maintaining standards although that by itself just speaks to how they aren't setting the standards anymore. And there is a lot of fakery, such as with the plagiarism scandals.
I saw this during my matriculation at an Ivy (Business School). I’m not from a wealthy background and a minority. Scholarships and grants enabled me to attend.
My experience was eye opening and the networking/connections made are the sole advantage. It can be seen as unfair with the leg up you get at an institution like this. It does open doors and has surpassed my expectations in terms of investment & ROI.👨🏽🎓
Your content is very underrated…I appreciate the topics you discuss. Another great video like always!!
Thanks
I’m extremely grateful you made this video as it provides truth to what a lot of people simply don’t know.
Great content!!!
Thanks
Man I can relate to this to some extent ,I myself graduated from a top undergrad school in my country and the sentiment shared is here. As of now, I am in a law school that is considered up there in the country too ( biggest thing I notice is how they fill up government positions fast!)
In India, its IITs and IIMs. Interestingly, most of the IIT Students immigrate to the US for higher opportunities. That's why you see, many corporations like Google, McKinsey are run by IITian as CEO or founder. (4/11/24)
I’ve heard top Indian school admissions make Ivy Leagues look easy just due to raw population numbers.
I went to Brown for my Masters degree and worked as a research scientist at the University shortly thereafter. I can tell you from first hand experience that success post grad depends a great deal on how much you’ve networked and/or participated in certain clubs while a student and also how much you’ve kissed ass.
How do I “brown-nose” without making it seem obvious that I’m “brown-nosing”
The biggest difference is between the elite boarding schools and public schools. John Taylor Gatto investigated it and made a video about it. Some of the things I remember him saying about boarding schools:
1) From a young age, lots of writing without much emphasis on grammar rules (that comes later), just write! Write a diary or personnel journal, write fictional stories too. For example, you can start with a dog, a cat, and a horse, and write an adventure story about them. Write a lot!
2) Public speaking, they push public speaking from a young age. The audience can be 2-3 people sitting on a park bench, doesn't matter!
3) They learn about all the major religions of the world, public schools - no religion at all.
4) an understanding of human nature: what makes people tick.
5) The classics, learning how to think for yourself, the trivium. Grammer, rhetoric, and logic. unheard of in public schools.
6) Access to people of different professions, truckers, Plumbers, cops, doctors, local politicians, etc, etc. Write them a personal letter asking to shadow them for a day or more.
There's more, but that's what I know off the top of my head.
Thanks for the insightful comment
While teaching catholic parochial school junior high I also guided canoe trips at a Canadian youth camp whose clientele were heavily enrolled in elite boarding schools. You are correct in your assertion that there is really no comparison between public school and boarding school. For one thing kids who go to boarding school feel like they own the world, which is not to imply that I found this to be disagreeable.
This was excellent
Singapore public school system is doing just that - they use maths to teach logic as well ( thinking is a skill )
Great video. Thank you for putting this info together for us. I’m REALLY looking forward to your boarding schools video!
Thanks
Spot on. As a cornell student you hit the nail on the head
Holy crap. I knew Ivy League held an advantage over the rest of us, but not THIS much.
I know you said otherwise in another comment, but as someone who comes from a half-broken family in the Deep South, this analysis screams "America's caste system."
Merit can’t exist above Capital. Wealth beats merit every time
Wealth is mostly earned by merit in the modern era. See my video is every fortune built on a crime for detailed thoughts on this
@AFNick “it’s who you know not what you know”
Merit: Quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward
Any successful individual I’ve ever met who has any humility at all has acknowledged they are only there because others have them a chance, even if they weren’t the best.
Labor data shows networking is more important than direct skills or ability.
Merit is literally not as good as soft skills and connections. Usually people with lots of money hire others who have lots of money or at least can fit into their social and financial class network.
It’s not rocket science, it’s a social science. The marketing of an individual is with average ability can and will beat talent because of how humans socialization works. (This doesn’t include any protege level of talent/skill as that is an outlier statistically)
But who knows.
Idk I’m just a dumbass on the internet
I’m just nitpicking the use of “merit” I have no real qualms with your takes, I mean I’m watching your channel so you got some things good to listen to
I ended up working at a prestigious SV law firm where a solid half of the partners came from Ivy League law schools. I was worried I was going to be out of my league since I didn’t get into an Ivy. And … it was a non issue. I never felt I was outclassed by any other lawyer. It’s not that they aren’t good, it’s just that you can’t tell by meeting or reviewing their work product. I think we can make gross distinctions in intelligence with testing, but you can’t tell the difference between someone in the top 5% or top 10% through testjng. At all.
I will always say go to your local community college. 1. It’s cheaper 2. It’s equip for the local market, mine is FRCC and they are very aware of what local employers want in the workforce. 3. That degree is probably similar in value to Ivy League degree 80% of the time.
My Ivy League school was BYU and UofU! I didn’t go there, but I’m probably just as well educated
Ivy League education is not purely about the academic content.
@@AFNickYou’re paying for the connection opportunities. Although people there likely already have a lot of those connections. 99 percent of people aren’t going to fall in the ivy category and that’s ok
If you come from a disadvantaged background, then chances are you have to think differently from the way your parents think. You don’t want to inherit their “habitus” (read Pierre Bourdieu) or else you’ll not be able to achieve upward social mobility, because their “habitus” certainly contributed to their poverty.
Even then, once you do this what do you do next?
@@Anton43218break more bad habits and continue to rise.
No mention of US Military Academy; Naval Academy or Air Force Academy. They produce some outstanding well balanced/rounded persons too…. And I never met an Ivy League graduate (or Stanford; MIT; Johns Hopkins; etc.) in the military.
There are plenty of Ivy League veterans, and they are very common in politics. Notable examples include JD Vance, George W. Bush, Pete Buttigieg, and Ron Desantis
West Point, AFA, and the Naval Academy are up with there with the Ivies in terms of prestige, but the service requirements narrow the pool of applicants.
@@AFNick yet in 30 years of service I never met one. For example, Graham and Desantis were lawyers… not trigger pullers. I knew a number of USMA graduates but never MET an Ivy League graduate.
@@schweinhund7966 Thank you for your service.
There absolutely are officers who did undergrad at ivies. They primarily commission through ROTC, but I've met a doctor who did undergrad at Princeton. It's just not advertised because...well its the military and your undergrad isn't relevant(unless its from a service academy or other military academy)
I turned down Brown in favor of Stanford (for a graduate program in Political Science). Stanford is the reigning “it” school, but I lost the opportunity to gain the imprimatur of a true Ivy League education. I had no legacy factor in my favor nor any connection to an endowment contribution. I also earned what most would consider a “sub-Ivy” M.S. at Johns Hopkins University. I work at the MITRE Corporation as a Principal Consultant.
Nick - sorry if I missed it - I am curious if you have coined a name for your American Class Hierarchy conception/model. If you Google the term, it only shows single-pyramid traditional models, and yours is quite novel (in a good way), so it would be nice to know a specific term/phase if one exists. It would also help people credit you if/when others reference your model, now and in the future.
I came up with it myself and just call it the American class hierarchy model or the dual pyramid of social class in America. If it needs a more unique name, call it the Pardini Pyramid of Social Class 😂
I am from the UK and i am applying to Princeton for physics PhD. Not going to lie this video doesn’t give me much hope, even if ranked first place in undergrad, with research experience. Though UK has some issues with Oxford and Cambridge for similar reasons. I applied to Cambridge for undergrad and got rejected, however I have to admit they mostly only care if you’re are smart and interviews tend to be asking really hard questions in the subject you are applying for. There is still some benefits for being rich (but almost no benefits for being legacy).
Not what you know but who you know. Go to the games, go to the events, shake hands.
11:21 correction. This example is outdated and the source saying all 9 justices attended Harvard and Yale was most likely written before Barrett’s appointment.
Thanks for the correction. It’s still 8/9 despite less than 1% of graduates being Ivy League
Thanks for the correction
The term “corporate culture” is a way of saying “If you didn’t attend an Ivy (or at least a Pac 10) school you won’t fit into our corporate culture/won’t be invited to the yacht parties, wine tasting events, and won’t fit in. Sorry, that’s going to keep you from many jobs.” I went to a state university and found this to be true whether it was a law firm or a non-profit. Actually, non-profits are worse.
Doesn’t matter that I was an honors student and the best in my class at my “low tier” university. I didn’t fit in with the elites.
this is so unjust
Those are just snobs. There are elites that are humble and see life from a different perspective. Trust me those people aren’t as happy as they seem.
PAC-10? I had to chuckle at this given the state of that conference now and the fact that they went from adding two extra schools to losing 10 schools since they were called the PAC-10; but I digress.
@ It’s just a way to say “West Coast Ivy League” since we don’t tend to have Ivy colored older buildings like on the East Coast. I believe the “Ivy League” is a term that came out of college football as well. I might be wrong, don’t correct me on that as I don’t actually care.
I gotta add some stuff more, in certain countries there are Ivy-league level colleges/universities but their is a schism between the two or three positions of power ( for context I am not an American BUT I sort of have seen these three classifications from my own point view )
- Universities that create the new rich/ entrepreneurial stars in what we think of in the modern context/ people who joined new trends to make money
- the old rich that will inherit the big businesses/ will be the one to acquire key companies to add to their portfolio.
- the government/state worker elite. These people are the ones you see being commissioners/heads of state mandated/constitutionally mandated offices of government ( ones that can never be abolished ) and basically will have their children in these government jobs for life
But a new and emerging one I have been noticing from my country is an elite that come from decent universities/ underrated colleges BUT picked courses that where worth it such as Computer Science, Accounting, Finance , Actuary and the like who will then join and work for atleast murmors foreign companies will then come back to set businesses we you never have heard of yet generate profit margins in the millions of dollars. People like these are either in the startup scene/ real estate/ passive investing side of things here. They use their foreign currency to basically buy things out and use business/professional education to make bank. One thing that sets them apart is that early in their career, they are the ones you see being sent to foreign trips or working in projects that are in top financial districts such as New York/ tech hubs in California for a temporary period then next thing you know they got their own business both in the country and either a branch/subsidiary in the USA or purchase old businesses there and make it was their own. ( I am sure you have met these people Nick, they work the hardest and you see them make most out of their foreign incursions if not become permanent residents in speeds most people dream of )
Hope this helps Nick!!!
I can't help but notice that rates of legacy admissions to these organizations haven't been affected by "diversity" initiatives. I also can't help but recall that the first "Woman of color" to be a Professor at Harvard Law was Elizabeth Warren. I have had the privilege to work with HYPMIT geniuses, Nick here reminds me of them. Unbelievably diligent, competent, and driven people. I've also had the misfortune of "working" with Ivy grads who grew up wealthy, marry wealthy, and will die wealthy. Great video.
Thanks for the kind words
I have family that went to Yale and Columbia (and Stanford on the other side) and it’s mostly merit but in the case of my cousin who went to Yale, her dad made a huge donation and she was an athlete too so the admissions offices are greedy af also.
With Columbia, it was generations back and they became professors after.
With Stanford, they went for grad degrees and were already rising up in Silicon Valley.
A mentor of mine went to university college London and came from a lower class family but that was in the 50s.
I’d never send my future kids to an Ivy after seeing how they handled covid. Strictly SEC schools.
Ugh! I love this education from RUclips 😒😍
Please do a video on elite boarding schools as well!
It’s on the list
In my experience, legacy does not matter, I was a double legacy to an Ivy League university through both of my parents with a 2300+ SAT non superscored and very high gpa with AP classes, self studied AP tests, numerous 800 subject tests, president of my school’s debate team, etc, and I did not get in. From my parents wide social network of Alumni families, I only knew two kids my age who got into the school as legacies, both of them claimed to be Hispanic on their application, one had a Cuban parent and the other was a double legacy that reclaimed Spanish citizenship through Sephardic ancestry. I think that most successful legacy applicants also found some way to fit into some diversity group so as to allow the university to meet its legacy quotas and diversity quotas, even if the legacies fudge the story a bit on just how ‘diverse’ they are.
I ended up going to a top 50 school in the country and absolutely regret it. Even being at a christian school, and being in the business school there, I found myself exiled from pretty much all social networks for my conservative political beliefs and I didnt fit in with the unserious Greek life kids which were the only social groups that were not explicitly political groups that didn’t exclude right of center students, but does exclude nerds. And those explicitly political groups that are against the university’s cultish consensus have meetings that are basically like funerals with how depressed everyone is being at the university. Anyway, I left college with very few useful social/business connections from the experience, I ended up underemployed taking a low starting salary where I had coworkers without college degrees, but thankfully older people went to college before it was an ideological indoctrination center, and I have risen up the ranks of my company pretty fast. I would not recommend that anyone who is not willing to fully buy into leftist ideology go to an elite college because you will certainly find yourself isolated, you will not get the vaunted ‘connections’ - you will in fact be shunned, and you will have to pay government-backed-loan-inflated tuition for the privilege. Start your career early, I could be the same place I am now years earlier if I did that, if you want to party you don’t need to pay for classes to do it, and you won’t have a title 9 kangaroo court breathing down your neck if you sleep with someone either.
See my video on college for my view on this, but thanks for sharing your story and the insightful comment.
It’s so true! Most of US universities, not just Ivy League, are a Propaganda Department of the same one political party in their country. Their researchers are biased, dissidents silenced and thrown out, even beaten. Inconvenient research projects are de-funded and shut down. The Old Money and most of billionaires go with it as the Dems policies guarantee their survival. Billionaire class is aligned with underclass against Middle Class.
I’ve gotta say the schools are like organisms which will try to reject you like a virus if you don’t fit in. Conservative political beliefs are big right now, but there are other characteristics they will get you on otherwise. I was lucky to be in school back with old school liberals who would simply mark you down a grade for giving the correct but not popular answer. 😂🤣
Went to the Army which was full of Conservatives, but had a bias against high IQ and my personality as measured by the Myers Briggs test. Never really fit in anywhere because there was ALWAYS influential people who wanted to get rid of me. The best I could do was either be in a company where I wasn’t one of the higher IQ people (elite tech) or a smaller company where the owner realized my value and protected me.
Still, through all that, I avoided so many of the calamities that ruin normal people’s lives because I was just smart enough or wise enough to see them coming before they really hurt me. So, it worked out fine for me.
Legacy definitely matters 😂 stop trying to cope.
Look at statistics.
It absolutely does matter! The stats prove this!
As a foreigner myself , my best shot in the Ivy League are either PHDs and a good old MBA/LLM which I want since I am moving to the USA in the future ( just gotta finish my law school here and work for some time )
11:30 this is a great point - what does it mean socially that all nine Supreme court judges are from Harvard or Yale?
Will they all protect their common class interests? (Of being priviledged Ivy League students)
That’s a good question
This comment section is amazing.
I went to Iowa State University. Another good video. Thanks.
You’re welcome
Thank you for this video, learned a lot. What books would you recommend for me to read about this specific topic?
Read the news reports and findings related to Operation Varsity Blues
To me, Ivy League is just a great accomplishment!
something to be proud of. ✨
I can’t imagine what the legacy students at Harvard are going through. amazing. 🙇🏻♀️
I think what surprised me was the admissions rate earlier than the 1970's. The fact that it was higher than I initially expected, compared to today's admissions environment.
excellent video as usual Nick thanks man
You’re welcome
“When you buy rich people chocolate and I buy poor people chocolate, the chocolate we both eat doesn’t taste that much different, but when you pay tens of thousands of US dollars to prepare your kid from toddler age to compete for Ivy League places by the time they turn 18 and finish high school, that money You have invested in your child devalues the quality of education that the poor kids receive rendering them incapable of competing with your rich Ivy League prepped child.” I read something like this from the Meritocracy trap
Good info .. keep going .. great content 💪
Thank you! Will do!
Interesting fact, for the last 50 years the amount of students in Ivy league grew by 34%, while US population grew by 65%, which means that's over last 50 years Ivy league education became even more exclusive.
That’s the problem
Thanks for making this.
You’re welcome
As a great man once said, "It's a big club, and you ain't in it."
One of my high school friends went to an Ivy League school, which was unusual for kids from my small town public schools (even though we had a good school system). She wasn't a genius or high achiever/intellectual nor was her family wealthy. Her mom knew how the application system worked, so she got in. Anyway, at her first job out of college in the mid 1990s she was making 6 figures as a project manager in tech--about $330,000 in 2024 money. She had no skills or knowledge in the field that would justify that--I don't remember her major, but it was probably something like English literature. It took me several years working in STEM, then in tech, and racking up credentials and publications/patents to make as much money as she did just starting out as a doofus new grad. It seemed like just another "track" system like the high school AP/college track sets people up for a professional job.
It’s the top track for the risk averse. That’s why admission is so competitive
very true. the delta between the asian public kids vs legacy prep school rich girl is massive. So many kids should not be there
This is off-topic, but im wondering what you think about the effect of sdr's and the bis is on triffin's paradox.
Thanks for the great work you put out!
Let me think about this one. Since SDRs are a basket of fiat, my initial assumption is that it’s not addicted by triffins paradox
Thanks for the clarification.
Merit in this case equates to robotic talent. I’m not gifted at the formalities of writing for academia. I can write papers that my teachers enjoy, but I had never learned how to write researched material on the level of a researcher. I think that it does require a certain talent, and robotic mindset. I struggle just to follow instructions but I have managed to make how I function in school work for me. Most of life isn’t reliant on people educated by Ivy League schools. Those schools are useful in churning out high level worker bees who can perform mentally strenuous tasks. They are not geared to think out of the box so any other person does have a chance if they focus on one task, and master it.
Your comment begs the question on how ChatGPT and LLMs affect the value of an Ivy League education. As the quote in the beginning of the video says, it’s more about what you learn outside the classroom than in it.
@ It does affect the Ivy League and also those who likely went to an Ivy League or are talented in this regard created those versions of AI. They’re in a loop, and it doesn’t matter until they misinform the masses through our media outlets. The question of to what extent does the misinformation that is flooding the internet affects the data bank that AI is pulling from should be asked. We will all be in a loop of misinformation.
You forgot Brown University.
I did not attend an Ivy League institution. Yet, I did have 1 teacher from Harvard. Being a San Francisco native 🌁, most of my teachers who received a degree from a major research institution are from Cal or Stanford.
You are right ✅.
I will admit. I am a little jealous. I didnt do my best during high school. Still landed a finance degree from Texas A&M. One of my biggest regrets in life. 😢
Interesting topic!
As a low income merit student, i would still prefer to balance between making connections with ultra rich somewhatsmart kids and academic genius than colleges like MIT or CalTech.
Great video and very informative.
Thanks
Excellent work
Thanks
Nice detailed informative video🎉
Thanks
You said that the chances of getting into an Ivy League were 1% public school VS 33% private school. Is this controlled for variables like grades, SAT scores, and parental income? Because I’m sure public school applicants have lower SAT scores on average.
It’s not any private school, but a select tier of elite boarding schools
@ So if we compare top tier of elite boarding schools VS public school students, what would be the possible stats if we control for this aforementioned variables?
Thomas Jefferson founded UVA bc his Alma mater, William and Mary, became a social club.
@AFNick - What are your thoughts on schools who are members of the Association of American Universities (AAU) - an association of 71 leading research universities in the US and Canada?
Membership is by invitation only.
I think its a signal for more STEM/research focused grad programs more than the prestige of the undergrad or professional degrees.
You completely missed the fact that Cornell is New York State's land grant school with a different tuition and admissions for NYS residence. All you need is to have a B or an average a from a community college or non competitive SUNY and you have good chance of being accepted. However you are limited to; NYS College of Human Ecology, The College of Agriculture and Life Sciences (CALS), and School of Industrial & Labor Relations. The Vet school also a SUNY is post graduate. Having done this myself (plus being apart of the ADA quota for being dyslexia) and known a lot low income farm kids there is back door into the Ivy's. Whether is is more of assist or liability I'm still not sure.
Good point on Cornell. Thanks for sharing.
At least the ones who attended ivory leagues that I know, they grew up in government housing and first gen immigrants with parents working odd jobs. They are just highly motivated people because they saw how their parents suffered from being poor. Mind you, the were all valedictorian’s from a local high school. I live in a city where pretty much ever attended an Ivy League, I don’t know any rich people. Many they are secretly.
Nick where did you go to college
UC Santa Barbara
@ oh cool. I appreciate the response you earned a subscriber
@@AFNickdo you have an MBA
Nick are you aware of the jq?
around the seven minute, 40 second mark you said they don't offer academic scholarships I think what you meant to say is they don't offer athletic scholarships
That’s what I meant. Thanks for the correction
Well I suppose that’s one reason Pearson Hardman only hired from
Harvard Law school (suits)
It's a selection not an election Dr Shiva 2024 MIT graduate and inventor of Email
An Episcopal monastic order in Cambridge, Massachusetts has or at least had a back door into Harvard Divinity School so I spent a week there interviewing. Although some of the inmates were quite sociable and seemed normal enough the vocations director, now deceased, asked me so many stupid questions that I bluntly informed him that I found it impossible to take him seriously and went so far as to challenge him to prove to me that i could actually trust him. He was rendered speechless by my effrontery so I spent the remainder of the retreat going to the nearby Boathouse Bar to drink at least a half pint of whiskey each and every night. Apparently they select for people who are timid enough to bother with eating their shit, something they weren’t going to be getting from me having been both a nuclear submariner and a ghetto high school teacher. And yes, the inmates who were the most forthcoming with me openly admitted that the only reason they were there was to get a free Harvard degree. At that date it was fairly easy to get into the divinity school or circa 1986.
You're not allowed to write for the Atlantic unless you went to Yale.
I got into a Ivy, but chose a UC t9 study mathematics, but eventually dropped out and started a construction company, im happy
UC what? Riverside? Lol
I never understood the value of Ivy League until I’m already about to graduate lol
95% of students are not getting the advantage of manipulation of the admissions system. Students need to be extremely well qualified to be admitted and then they need to graduate and the students who do the best at an Ivy League school are extremely good students.
It is fair to recognize that very good students come from great public and private high schools. Those people are overwhelmingly from upper middle class/ upper class backgrounds.
What ethnic group controls admission?
14:17 That's confusing. You first state Stanford to be the "leader of course" for those receiving funding toward a unicorn venture by being 1.6x more likely.
But then you go on to state that a Yale graduate is 2x more likely to achieve unicorn status. How can Stanford be the leader then?
Stanford has more unicorns, but also more entrepreneurs trying to get there and not making it
@@AFNick But this would mean a depressed likelihood amongst Stanford alumni, yes? You state in the video that they're 1.6x more likely than an average entrepreneur.
compared to Yale alumni, but still far better than anyone else
First gen college kid here who went to Ivy for professional school. Completely fucking different worlds
Interesting, I'm beginning to hear rumblings of change in the air. Many businesses are shunning ivy league graduates of the recent era because all the woke crap that goes into ivyness has shed off on their graduates and businesses just see them as too much of a pain in the ass. LOLOL
My bonus supplement video for channel members will be discussing that. It will be released next week.
I voted Perth Australia for the Meetup, so if there's one vote for that place, you know it was me! 😂
Thanks. So far its looking like Melbourne is the leading city in terms of votes. We have a decent amount of votes for so far across Australia but still well below the threshold. I look forward to when the day comes for me to visit!
The question if America has been in decline for fifty years and the UK for 100 years what to do
I don’t think America has been in decline the last fifty years. People in the UK need to move to better opportunities or have a spiritual revival
@ I use a metric called lifespan
It is falling in USA
Also wealth inequality is the highest ever for USA
It’s decline for 90 percent of Americans
As Ed Yardeni says USA has two economies
10 percent and 90 percent