Funny part is, Ive heard a lot of people call the sneezewort 5 petal looking flowers, "Trina's Lily" and ignoring the background flowers. This is close enough for my W haha
3:21 Miyazaki confirmed in his interview that it's not a dreamland or anything similar but an actual physical place that's just disconnected from the regular map now, more like Farum Azula where you get teleported to it.
I'm using the term 'dreamland' colloquially. That is to say, it'll actually be more similar to how the Roundtable Hold exists relative to the rest of the Lands Between. What I'm calling 'Ethereal Reality' doesn't conflict with what Miyazaki said in his interviews, but it'll require watching ERwSET Episode 3 to actually explain why.
If you read vulgar militia armor description and the forbidden lands connection to it, it implies it may have been within that area. If you match limgraves size to the size of missing land surrounding thst region it's comparable as well
@@t-l-g-t-w YOU WERE RIGHT about the wickerman being an early open-world boss Vaatividya just released a "first look" at the dlc and sure enough there's the wickerman right near the beginning of the dlc.
Messmer, demigod of fashion emergencies. He might have power over his tyrannical flame, but he can't avoid getting roasted for his weird papier maché drake knight cosplay. At least he won't heavy roll with such a breezy fit.
Have you seen the divine tower theory? The DLC will likely be in the middle of the map between the divine towers, Marika's veil or baldachin is draping down from above and resting on the towers.
idk Miyazaki said in an interview that it's a physical place and not in another time. He said it's a like a parallel space that exists in the same timeframe.
You're the most hardcore extremely fringe lore theorist in this niche of a niche of YT and I just want to say I appreciate it. Not trying to glaze. Sometimes you sound fucking insane. But I'm here for it.
What makes you think that? The new DLC trailer kind of made me think something similar, that maybe they were unified as an androgynous being and became separate over time.
@@Aristogonian Well, evidence from the trailers point towards the idea that Radagon has been a part of Marika a lot longer than we previously realised. Like you pointed out, she looks very androgynous in the trailer. Also, the color red seems to correspond with the Crucible (root resin, ancient dragon lightning, etc.) which existed before the Erdtree. The process of creating "gold" is the removal of "red" I guess too, which suggests things. Everything points towards red existing before gold comes to be. Food for thought.
@@eddyh5 interesting, so Radagon being the red part may indicate he preexisted her, that’s a good idea. That would help explain one of my theories that Marika is trying to purge Radagon from herself. One of the reasons I think that is after Radagon is smashed by the Elden Beast and is turned into a sword, Marika’s body is still there in the crucified position she was originally in. Possibly signifying that she is now successfully separated from Radagon
@@Aristogonian I think you could be right in that Radagon/Elden Beast are no longer a part of her after the end. Problem is, is that might be why she just ends up a lifeless husk? Also, when looking at Law of Causality and Law of Regression, Marika seems to represent LoC whereas Radagon represents LoR (or at least based on their behaviors/goals). Based on this, it would make sense that Radagon is part of the "base component" and Marika is born from some "causality". Hense Radagon wanting to "regress" to "be complete". Idk, just more crazy stuff rattling around from inside my head haha. 🤷♂️
@@eddyh5not entirely true. I forget which item description it is, but the color gold COMBINED with red is the primordial essence. so Marika separating gold from red to create the Golden Order was actually a false and unnatural order, which is why the majority of omens that are born in the Lands Between are killed at birth, unless they were of royal blood. Radagon has to be some consequence of the Crucible being separated from the Gold part of the nature of reality, who is ironically the one fighting the hardest to maintain the Golden Order while Marika, the creator of it, is immobilized and practically dead herself
"recycled assets" the game uses architectural styles to help tell the story, why wouldnt you want to see familiar or similar assets in the dlc? theres answers there homie
Yup, I wouldn’t have it any other way. The fact that the same ancient giant blackstone structures, that appear in the basegame, will appear in the DLC has me excited. Instead of thinking “oh that’s lazy and recycled”, I’m moreso thinking “wow, I could make more possible connections by extrapolating the context of which this style of structure is being used in the DLC, and compare it to the basegame to gain more understanding of the game’s world overall”
1:32:04 the "other tree" growing out of the erdtree is a hand holding the falling erdtree. If you look closely, (from where the two trees intersect), you can see the thumb as if someone's right hand is holding the tree, to the immediate left of that is the "wrist" of the hand and then the forearm
10:09 there are actually 1st gen albinauric in halted metamorphosis coccoons here and there in Elphael, but they are indeed presumably all dead, or at the very least their metamorpohosis completely halted after Miquella's kidnapping
Lot's of respect for posting the entirety of your analysis prior to the story trailer. Far more of your theories in this still hold up than don't. It's fun to see your process before we all have access to the source material (the firmament as you put it). You've inspired me to take diligent notes to work towards my own theories when it comes out and see where we overlap. Also, can't wait for season 2 of ERwSET and hope more folks help you keep your head on fire!
Seems possible that when Mohg stole Miquella from the haligtree he took nothing more than a corpse, it's not clear when Miquella abandoned his body but that tidbit explains why Miquella's body has been "unresponsive".
The grave behind the wickerman looks like it has a shell cut out of that, I don't think we've seen that before. *hits the pipe* could be Nox are ancient ocean symbolism related *exhales*
I know we have all tried to place Messmer’s birth and parentage in the timeline and make it fit, but it just occurred to me- why? Why does he need to be a child of Marika? Why can’t he be a husband? Marika has a history of putting her husbands away… this would explain the betrayal, seduction, and affair we hear. And I know Messmer refers to her as Mother, but it would not be amiss for any religion, cult, zealot, fanatic, or even royalty to want to be referred to as Mother. We have many modern day examples (Queen Elizabeth) where a population referred to her as queen mother or mum. And works of fiction, like a song of ice and fire, where the populace called Khaleesi “Meesa“ or Mother. Religions refer to their gods or goddesses in maternal and paternal ways. So again, I ask… what if Messmer was her first husband and waged this war for her. Then she betrayed and hid him away? Even would explain when Messmer taunts “wouldst thou lordship sanction in one so bereft of light?” as more derogatory and exasperated. Like “really? You left me and this is who is your consort?”
Good outside-the-box thinking, however his status as a child of Marika was explicitly confirmed by Miyazaki in an interview that was released alongside this trailer
@@richarddemke1290 I assume you're referring to the English translation of the IGN interview, which iirc says he is "on the same level as the demigods and other children of Marika" which is definitely phrased very ambiguously, you're not wrong. However Miyazaki's actual words, from the original article from IGN Japan, are much clearer. Here's a direct translation of the paragraph (courtesy of a bilingual acquaintance): "The key art at the end of the trailer shows him sitting on a chair. If you played the main game, you might remember that the same chair was in the room where you fought Morgott at the foot of the Erdtree, in Leyndell. This chair will be the chair that Morgot, Malenia and other so-called great rune kings and Marika's children sat on. Messmer was one of Marika’s children who did not appear in the main story and was never mentioned. He is the same rank as the kings of the runes in the main story. We will find out in the DLC, including why he is not mentioned."
I always wondered if gravity magic was the magic of St trina, mainly cuz they are both purple, there is no magic associated with sleep, every other status effect has spells associated and the juvenile scholars use purple magic while singing a st trina lullaby. The theory that fate is influenced in dreams and stars are interlinked with gravity magic. Also people “fall” asleep haha
At 1:05:50 the wilted wisteria tree in the background would look like a two fingers if pruned, and other wise it looks like it was interleaving in a helix shape (something we see a lot in the DLC and on certain sigils and items in the base game, and even in Miquella's Halig tree) before it died or stopped being tended to.
I tend to wonder if Marika was born a male, and all her children are actually Frankenmonsters using grafting in the most botanical sense to create her children.
lovely lore dive! loved that live react to the celestial dew, i’ve been thinking about quite a few other “gameplay” elements that have major lore implications. such as mirror’s ability to hide your eye features cast by dragoncult/bloodyfinger/frenzyflame. curious about connecting that and the pendants you can use to hide your appearance in co-op
i dont think the final dungeon is in middle map, i think we have map behind the green florest upper levels soo ... they dont show us in trailer all the size of full map in upper levels !
also i think the ancient dynasty was founded by the draconian humans who lived in farum azula, but after placidusaxx had already been abandoned, which would line up really well with the omen city which is probably the capitol of the dynasty, which seems to also be crumbling, which could mean that burning the erdtree at the giants flame is also burning marikas veil, unveiling farum azula to the base game because the two realms arent separated? probably not but its an idea to think about i suppose
like that the omens n crucibles came after the dragons sorta stopped ruling, which would mean the godskins and crucible and omens are all the same faction. even if thats a stretch, it answers a shit ton of questions to assume all of those are the same group, the ancient dynasty
Rykard's Boss Room Has A Gloam-Mist Covering It When You Defeat Him. HE was Ranni's Messmer, the one who would purge the world to start anew should Ranni fail
Radagon the impaler fell to the golden order then they fused or something like that to queen marika then Dad’s how the order started between no debt and no life my assumption is not fully there, but just think about it
A friend gave me the files for it. They got it off a Korean website that made them for Splatoon 2, I don't know where they got it, though, unfortunately, although they said it was on Tumblr so I'd reckon you might be able to find it too if you Googled it, maybe. It doesn't even show up in OBS but the cursor is even animated, too.
If radagon can have kids with Marika (him/her) self Then Melina can have kids with mikola, (him/her) self If rumors are true. Maybe messmir is son Of micola and Melina,
I always wondered if gravity magic was the magic of St trina, mainly cuz they are both purple, there is no magic associated with sleep, every other status effect has spells associated and the juvenile scholars use purple magic while singing a st trina lullaby. The theory that fate is influenced in dreams and stars are interlinked with gravity magic. Also people “fall” asleep haha
I may be looking into your theory too much. But if you take away the fingers from the miquela pose and include the pose in reference to the arm position. I see the rune.
I think the fire giant's heads are appropriative, going off nothing but my own instinct. If the fire giants were lending their flame I think we would see their bas-reliefs of the forge, or the 8-1 circle ring of the fell god, or the face of the fell god that resides in their chests. Using the actual heads of the fire giants is strange, especially strapped to the hip/thighs and not as the actual head. Seems like trophies or something more sinister.
29:52 ma'am those are Trina's lilies. there is a sleepy guy right there. this is the naptime zone.
Funny part is, Ive heard a lot of people call the sneezewort 5 petal looking flowers, "Trina's Lily" and ignoring the background flowers. This is close enough for my W haha
That celestial dew connection is genius.
Yeah, that was a really good point about what Miquella might be doing, especially in the context of her dissertation on how fate works in the game.
@@xvrqt this! Exactly this! Is why I love this community.
3:21 Miyazaki confirmed in his interview that it's not a dreamland or anything similar but an actual physical place that's just disconnected from the regular map now, more like Farum Azula where you get teleported to it.
I'm using the term 'dreamland' colloquially. That is to say, it'll actually be more similar to how the Roundtable Hold exists relative to the rest of the Lands Between.
What I'm calling 'Ethereal Reality' doesn't conflict with what Miyazaki said in his interviews, but it'll require watching ERwSET Episode 3 to actually explain why.
If you read vulgar militia armor description and the forbidden lands connection to it, it implies it may have been within that area.
If you match limgraves size to the size of missing land surrounding thst region it's comparable as well
@@t-l-g-t-w YOU WERE RIGHT about the wickerman being an early open-world boss Vaatividya just released a "first look" at the dlc and sure enough there's the wickerman right near the beginning of the dlc.
Messmer, demigod of fashion emergencies. He might have power over his tyrannical flame, but he can't avoid getting roasted for his weird papier maché drake knight cosplay. At least he won't heavy roll with such a breezy fit.
Have you seen the divine tower theory? The DLC will likely be in the middle of the map between the divine towers, Marika's veil or baldachin is draping down from above and resting on the towers.
idk Miyazaki said in an interview that it's a physical place and not in another time. He said it's a like a parallel space that exists in the same timeframe.
You're the most hardcore extremely fringe lore theorist in this niche of a niche of YT and I just want to say I appreciate it. Not trying to glaze. Sometimes you sound fucking insane. But I'm here for it.
I've had another new theory lately, that Radagon existed even before Marika... 🤔
What makes you think that? The new DLC trailer kind of made me think something similar, that maybe they were unified as an androgynous being and became separate over time.
@@Aristogonian Well, evidence from the trailers point towards the idea that Radagon has been a part of Marika a lot longer than we previously realised. Like you pointed out, she looks very androgynous in the trailer. Also, the color red seems to correspond with the Crucible (root resin, ancient dragon lightning, etc.) which existed before the Erdtree. The process of creating "gold" is the removal of "red" I guess too, which suggests things. Everything points towards red existing before gold comes to be. Food for thought.
@@eddyh5 interesting, so Radagon being the red part may indicate he preexisted her, that’s a good idea. That would help explain one of my theories that Marika is trying to purge Radagon from herself. One of the reasons I think that is after Radagon is smashed by the Elden Beast and is turned into a sword, Marika’s body is still there in the crucified position she was originally in. Possibly signifying that she is now successfully separated from Radagon
@@Aristogonian I think you could be right in that Radagon/Elden Beast are no longer a part of her after the end. Problem is, is that might be why she just ends up a lifeless husk?
Also, when looking at Law of Causality and Law of Regression, Marika seems to represent LoC whereas Radagon represents LoR (or at least based on their behaviors/goals). Based on this, it would make sense that Radagon is part of the "base component" and Marika is born from some "causality". Hense Radagon wanting to "regress" to "be complete".
Idk, just more crazy stuff rattling around from inside my head haha. 🤷♂️
@@eddyh5not entirely true. I forget which item description it is, but the color gold COMBINED with red is the primordial essence. so Marika separating gold from red to create the Golden Order was actually a false and unnatural order, which is why the majority of omens that are born in the Lands Between are killed at birth, unless they were of royal blood. Radagon has to be some consequence of the Crucible being separated from the Gold part of the nature of reality, who is ironically the one fighting the hardest to maintain the Golden Order while Marika, the creator of it, is immobilized and practically dead herself
"recycled assets" the game uses architectural styles to help tell the story, why wouldnt you want to see familiar or similar assets in the dlc? theres answers there homie
Yup, I wouldn’t have it any other way. The fact that the same ancient giant blackstone structures, that appear in the basegame, will appear in the DLC has me excited.
Instead of thinking “oh that’s lazy and recycled”, I’m moreso thinking “wow, I could make more possible connections by extrapolating the context of which this style of structure is being used in the DLC, and compare it to the basegame to gain more understanding of the game’s world overall”
that purple-y pink butterfly magic always reminds me of the Mesmer profession from the Guild Wars franchise
Man I miss playing gw2
Celestial due.. how the fuck did EVERYONE MISS THIS 😂.
I'm holding onto all of the Mending Runes for Miquella… I think this has something to do with all things flourishing
1:32:04 the "other tree" growing out of the erdtree is a hand holding the falling erdtree. If you look closely, (from where the two trees intersect), you can see the thumb as if someone's right hand is holding the tree, to the immediate left of that is the "wrist" of the hand and then the forearm
There are albinaurics in the haligtree, they are the cocoon like things dotted all about
10:09 there are actually 1st gen albinauric in halted metamorphosis coccoons here and there in Elphael, but they are indeed presumably all dead, or at the very least their metamorpohosis completely halted after Miquella's kidnapping
Lot's of respect for posting the entirety of your analysis prior to the story trailer. Far more of your theories in this still hold up than don't. It's fun to see your process before we all have access to the source material (the firmament as you put it). You've inspired me to take diligent notes to work towards my own theories when it comes out and see where we overlap. Also, can't wait for season 2 of ERwSET and hope more folks help you keep your head on fire!
Seems possible that when Mohg stole Miquella from the haligtree he took nothing more than a corpse, it's not clear when Miquella abandoned his body but that tidbit explains why Miquella's body has been "unresponsive".
@@iamperplexed4695 Good question, I'm merely going off what the story trailer says.
40:34 well hello hello.
The grave behind the wickerman looks like it has a shell cut out of that, I don't think we've seen that before. *hits the pipe* could be Nox are ancient ocean symbolism related *exhales*
I know we have all tried to place Messmer’s birth and parentage in the timeline and make it fit, but it just occurred to me- why? Why does he need to be a child of Marika? Why can’t he be a husband? Marika has a history of putting her husbands away… this would explain the betrayal, seduction, and affair we hear. And I know Messmer refers to her as Mother, but it would not be amiss for any religion, cult, zealot, fanatic, or even royalty to want to be referred to as Mother. We have many modern day examples (Queen Elizabeth) where a population referred to her as queen mother or mum. And works of fiction, like a song of ice and fire, where the populace called Khaleesi “Meesa“ or Mother. Religions refer to their gods or goddesses in maternal and paternal ways. So again, I ask… what if Messmer was her first husband and waged this war for her. Then she betrayed and hid him away? Even would explain when Messmer taunts “wouldst thou lordship sanction in one so bereft of light?” as more derogatory and exasperated. Like “really? You left me and this is who is your consort?”
Good outside-the-box thinking, however his status as a child of Marika was explicitly confirmed by Miyazaki in an interview that was released alongside this trailer
@@Baconomics1 I thought he said they were just on equal standing?
@@richarddemke1290 I assume you're referring to the English translation of the IGN interview, which iirc says he is "on the same level as the demigods and other children of Marika" which is definitely phrased very ambiguously, you're not wrong.
However Miyazaki's actual words, from the original article from IGN Japan, are much clearer. Here's a direct translation of the paragraph (courtesy of a bilingual acquaintance):
"The key art at the end of the trailer shows him sitting on a chair. If you played the main game, you might remember that the same chair was in the room where you fought Morgott at the foot of the Erdtree, in Leyndell. This chair will be the chair that Morgot, Malenia and other so-called great rune kings and Marika's children sat on. Messmer was one of Marika’s children who did not appear in the main story and was never mentioned. He is the same rank as the kings of the runes in the main story. We will find out in the DLC, including why he is not mentioned."
I always wondered if gravity magic was the magic of St trina, mainly cuz they are both purple, there is no magic associated with sleep, every other status effect has spells associated and the juvenile scholars use purple magic while singing a st trina lullaby.
The theory that fate is influenced in dreams and stars are interlinked with gravity magic.
Also people “fall” asleep haha
Im about halfway into this. Definitely some eye openers.
The analysis I have been waiting for
At 1:05:50 the wilted wisteria tree in the background would look like a two fingers if pruned, and other wise it looks like it was interleaving in a helix shape (something we see a lot in the DLC and on certain sigils and items in the base game, and even in Miquella's Halig tree) before it died or stopped being tended to.
Can messmer be Godwyn's other half that was put in the shadowland. Being the Godwyn's body was destroyed but not the soul
I tend to wonder if Marika was born a male, and all her children are actually Frankenmonsters using grafting in the most botanical sense to create her children.
lovely lore dive! loved that live react to the celestial dew, i’ve been thinking about quite a few other “gameplay” elements that have major lore implications.
such as mirror’s ability to hide your eye features cast by dragoncult/bloodyfinger/frenzyflame. curious about connecting that and the pendants you can use to hide your appearance in co-op
i dont think the final dungeon is in middle map, i think we have map behind the green florest upper levels soo ... they dont show us in trailer all the size of full map in upper levels !
Blood of your fellows: Maybe the band of Miquella that we were asked to walk with
24:52 blood must spill in the Realm oh Shadow!?
personally i thing the egg of rebirth is in the cloth at the beginning of the trailer. ya know the egg that rennala has
cant edit but im talking about the other trailer
30:42 it’s glintstone. Not fire
14:34 that buildings was detroyed by mesmer and his army
Out of curiosity, why did you mention Caelid? This expansion won't be involved with the main area
hey isnt miquella's great rune just the rune of the unborn? i always kinda assumed that
fits in with the "gave up his golden flesh and fate" sorta thingy he does, and its shaped the exact same as malenias too
also i think the ancient dynasty was founded by the draconian humans who lived in farum azula, but after placidusaxx had already been abandoned, which would line up really well with the omen city which is probably the capitol of the dynasty, which seems to also be crumbling, which could mean that burning the erdtree at the giants flame is also burning marikas veil, unveiling farum azula to the base game because the two realms arent separated? probably not but its an idea to think about i suppose
like that the omens n crucibles came after the dragons sorta stopped ruling, which would mean the godskins and crucible and omens are all the same faction. even if thats a stretch, it answers a shit ton of questions to assume all of those are the same group, the ancient dynasty
imagine, if, this is only an if, they drop you straight into messmer fight early in DLC, then questions starts appearing, how big will the DLC be??
I think he'll be the Ludwig of this expansion
The heck is fate anyway.. a star?
It's actually very concrete what Fate is. I made a video detailing it exactly.
@@t-l-g-t-w I will check it out thanks!
good job here
Present and attending!
Rykard's Boss Room Has A Gloam-Mist Covering It When You Defeat Him. HE was Ranni's Messmer, the one who would purge the world to start anew should Ranni fail
Radagon the impaler fell to the golden order then they fused or something like that to queen marika then Dad’s how the order started between no debt and no life my assumption is not fully there, but just think about it
OF as in…?
Official Fanclub, of course. I can't imagine anything else those letters would stand for!
how did you make your arrow the Splatoon squid
A friend gave me the files for it. They got it off a Korean website that made them for Splatoon 2, I don't know where they got it, though, unfortunately, although they said it was on Tumblr so I'd reckon you might be able to find it too if you Googled it, maybe. It doesn't even show up in OBS but the cursor is even animated, too.
Am I the only one who sees the hero's grave to the right in the first shot?
HOOP SNAKE
Let's gooo
You're on OF? Saucy
If radagon can have kids with
Marika (him/her) self
Then Melina can have kids with mikola, (him/her) self
If rumors are true.
Maybe messmir is son
Of micola and Melina,
Name spell check** sorry
Miquella @@ezrob2837
I always wondered if gravity magic was the magic of St trina, mainly cuz they are both purple, there is no magic associated with sleep, every other status effect has spells associated and the juvenile scholars use purple magic while singing a st trina lullaby.
The theory that fate is influenced in dreams and stars are interlinked with gravity magic.
Also people “fall” asleep haha
10:14 there are plenty of albrinauics in elphael, theyre in coccons just like miquella
Your level of analysis is next to none. Thank you
Been waiting for the real trailer analysis, thank you
Maybe the real trailer analysis is the trailers we analyzed along the way...
I may be looking into your theory too much. But if you take away the fingers from the miquela pose and include the pose in reference to the arm position. I see the rune.
1:10:31 banished knight helm with raging wolf armor set? i always wear those 2 together. its my favorite armor drip to wear
Greetings and thanks once again for the lore
I think the fire giant's heads are appropriative, going off nothing but my own instinct. If the fire giants were lending their flame I think we would see their bas-reliefs of the forge, or the 8-1 circle ring of the fell god, or the face of the fell god that resides in their chests. Using the actual heads of the fire giants is strange, especially strapped to the hip/thighs and not as the actual head. Seems like trophies or something more sinister.
Messmer refers to his mother, and it's somewhat suggested that it would have to be Marika
Great analysis and theories!
hoop snake!
Yes!