Fate Explained, and Gravity's Polarity (Elden Ring Lore 2)
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2023
- Still a lot to do. But I'll still be doing it.
Next Episode: • How Reality Works, Cha...
Previous Episode: • Empyreans, Order, and ...
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Signing off with a pen name of your choosing. If I answer a question without a usable pen name, I'll just refer to it without one.
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1:03 First Side: Chains
23:37 Second Side: Change
48:53 Gravity
1:02:18 Ending Sequence
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Talking SFX were provided by: alan-dalcastagne.itch.io/dial... 
Игры
So I can continue the production of more, better works, faster, support me to help keep my head on fire: ko-fi.com/tlgtw
Available for "Full Members" and above are the scripts w production notes for this video as well as Episode 1's. The assets used for Snake-Eyes Teieruji, and the VisDev file I used for designing the more elaborate parts of Episode 2.
And as a reminder, email me any kind of question you like at: OfficialTLGTW@gmail.com
Signing off with a pen name of your choice. The most interesting questions and answers will be found in the upcoming Members-Only Kinda-Monthly Newsletter's Q&A section. (If I answer a question without a usable pen name, I'll just refer to it without one.)
I can not tell you how many times I have checked RUclips for this specific moment
Same!!
You (along with Tarnished Archaeologist) stand out as not only engaing videos, but perfect examples of how (the ideas/goals/practices) of really good science communication can apply to any topic we are trying to understand. Ive sat through many research talks that were similarly long, far less coherent, and most importantly, didnt take the care you so to attempt to reach people who dont already know the minute but relevant details. Legit respect.
This is a very appropriate game to spend thesis levels of time deconstructing and turning into a hard to describe how good it is RUclips series. Thank you!!!!!!!!
What you saying is, Elden Ring is a result of GRRM trying to understand how King Crimson works.
Just finished, HOLY SHIT that Radhan bit was incredible! I can't wait to see what you have in store for any next part! Thank you for doing this
I always took the “body without a soul” to just be equivalent to the unfortunately very real brain death. Godwin exists in a vegetative state because his essence is gone and he can never recover from it, but with his body being immortal it can’t die so just continues to grow like a cancer.
It’s also why I didn’t find it particularly creepy like others seemed to. He’s basically a part of nature, now. Like a giant fungus spread across the forest that all happens to be a single being despite it looking like multiple different ones. There’s no malice there, the big weird fish head cannot do anything to you and will never be able to, it’s just there now unless someone finds a way to destroy the body.
She's done it again!
I am not sure if I agree that the Astel's star debris (and weapon) is depicting planets.
Looks more like "orbs" of nebulas to me, which makes sense as Nebulas contains cosmic dust or as the game calls it "many-colored star debris", heck the special attack of the Bastard's Star and Wing of Astel is called "Nebula".
This guy is a lore master
"Do You Believe in Gravity?" - Some Bisexual Vampire in the 80's I Guess
call me Leonard cause I want Radahn to crush me-
funny jokes aside, yet another amazing video, and also I have now had a horrified experience of what it must be like having a conversation with me as I once again start ranting about Godzilla Singular Point, and the innate horror of "yes you dumb nerd, scientifically speaking Godzilla could not exist in our world, as it would just get crushed under its own weight... *that is part of the horror, it would have to literally warp the laws of reality to be able to exist-*"
also loved the tarot bit, as well some pretty amazing art on those cards.
I just made a writeup trying based on the idea of fate being gravity, and just now I find someone else already made the connection!
My take is more focused on the idea that Fate is essentially the consequence of what I would call "life gravity" or maybe "soul gravity", basically gravity but with lifeforce instead of mass.
Entities with life energy attract each other, and those with greater energy control those with lesser energy, like a planet orbits around a star and a satellite orbits around a planet.
Gravity is also inversely proportional to distance, which means that those who get too close to a specific entity become unable to escape from it; the carians and primeval sorcerers study the stars and have their fates tied to it, we touch the three fingers and are forced to become the lord of frenzied flame, and so on.
The "fate of the stars" is basically just the result of the gravitational pull of various celestial entities going in different directions.
Death could associated to black holes then (like astel's void/darkness), and death, or undeath, could be the key to escaping fate, both because it's the absence of life and because black holes are "beyond time".
I have one answer to that question of the Deathbed Dream. I believe that it is the dream of those who share the Deathbed.
As Fia shows us, we cannot enter the dream unless we embrace her while she's laying with Godwyn. Which means Fia and the Tarnished can only enter and thus affect the dream by being part of the Deathbed.
Not sure how Fortissax became part of Godwyn's Deathbed without a Deathbed companion though. The magic of friendship, I guess.
Appreciate having you back, wasnt sure if it was gunna be till after dlc released
How did I miss this video being published?! It is time to put on some coffee and enjoy some lore!
I've been waiting for this one! Ready to dig in
The amount of ''Do you believe in gravity'' jokes that can be made here tho
37:24 Maybe the needle takes away your memory. Since, while in Plassy's arena, the Three Fingers haven't PHYSICALLY touched you, this must be WHY the needle can work. But you keep the eyes in that arena, even if you have the needle - then the eyes go away after using the needle? So, since the 'cause' of the 'effects' hasn't happened, maybe you have the 'effects' still because you individually REMEMBER them, and through magical manifestation, are bringing these remembered effects into reality. Then using the needle messes with your memory, causing you to forget that you encountered the Three Fingers, thus removing the last existing record that it happened. Since it seems important that Empyreans have to sort of 'choose' to become gods, maybe it's a sort of thing where the outer god in question is knocking on the door, really loudly, but the needle just dulls your ability to remember that fact, thus forestalling the ability of the outer god to walk through the door of your mind. When the needle gets removed, it's like taking away the morphine and ALL the knocking gets through, and it's so loud (cuz, outer god) that you can't keep it out anymore, thus choosing to let the outer god in, all the way.
Nice nice nice 😎😎😎 i really enjoyed how this vid built upon the foundation of the last. Super hype for the next already!
WOOO MORE TLGTW
i fucking dropped everything when i saw that you posted so excited!
What if the needle just needs the gravitational actively being present while being used, and that is why Malenia is fighting against Radahn, which is seen as an opposition to the erdtree faith which radahn is faithful to, which is why they fought?
I didn’t even get pass the ad ik this finna be a banger
33:53 this change actually further supports your point here, IMO. a deliberate reason presumably exists for such a minor change, and maybe that reason was lore-related. "Sleeping" is not entirely an accurate way to describe an indefinite/ongoing state of unconsciousness, after all! if anything it would be more akin to a coma?
also i adore how often you get completely sidetracked and forget what you were talking about. just like me fr
just finished this episode - you have earned yourself a new OF Committee member!
FUCK YES
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS
Yooooooooo, second episode!!
i love your drawings
Can confirm, radahn is hung.
Thoughts on "stars" as the goal of the primeval current sorcerers? The lore about the Graven Mass ball thingies is that they mush together sorcerers into the "seeds of stars". Is this supposed to imply that celestial objects as seen in the Lands Between are actually collections of souls or something?
Thanks for the new upload. I really enjoy your analysis.
The only thing that I see different is the relation between causality in our universe vs elden ring's. There are physical frameworks that describe our reality as completely deterministic (i.e. if you know the current state of a system with perfect accuracy then you can know what that system will look like in the future with 100% certainty). These are best known as 'superdeterminism'. The obvious counter example is quantum randomness, but there's the possibility of apparent randomness coming from a lack of understanding. In regards to a 'choice'. In our universe there isn't such a thing as a choice. If you think about buying apples but decide to buy oranges instead, the fact that you thought about the apples doesn't mean you ever had the possibility of buying them. It doesn't matter what you could have done only what you do. In this sense the experience of 'free will' is an emergent illusion. Additionally general relativity can describe causality as the underlying physical law. The speed of light in this case is not a special property of light (other than the fact that it is massless) but is actually the limit after which two object separated by spacetime cannot have a causal connection.
The fact that elden ring's characters can influence fate could in this case mean that they have more agency than we do.
So overall I see elden ring's portrayal of causality as a physical law as a commentary on some of our current understanding of physics and the natural consequences that follow.
Also 'fate in the stars' can be interpreted as referencing how real world astronomers (rather than astrologers) were able to expand our understand of the universe and the laws that govern it by literally studying the 'movement of the stars' (also the planets but those were thought to be stars at first).
The description of gravity as the difference in time experienced between two connected masses is only one interpretation of gravity in GR and many, many others exist.
(edit: Obviously there are many interpretations of QM and GR and I don't necessary support this one, but I think it provides some more possible inspirations for GRRM's contributions. Also I am not a physicist just someone who enjoys learning about it from popsci creators)
Worth point out that thoughts of X but doing Y are irrelevant as they’re part of reality, not independent of it, at least IRL. We don’t have evidence of truly spontaneous thoughts, they’re a byproduct of your biology interacting with the environment, so even if you’re thinking of buying apples but instead buy oranges, that wouldn’t be indicative that fate made you buy oranges, it would be indicative that fate made you want to buy apples in addition to you actually buying oranges. Your brain isn’t magic.
That’s what differentiates Elden Ring, where the soul actually exists so the will of the creature can be independent of the fate of the creature. Fate is a property of their physical universe that does not necessarily apply to their spiritual one. The big problem with that though is any alterations to the fate of the physical universe is retroactively fated to happen anyway, so there could only ever be one outcome even if it looked like there were multiple, or that the outcome appeared impossible in the framework.
Fate conceptually is a dead end since it applies to everything but has no predictive power. Radahn stopped everyone’s fate by halting the stars, but he must’ve been fated to do that anyway. Every action that happened while the stars were halted was supposed to happen like that, even if no one ever thought that something like the stars being halted was a possibility.
In-universe it basically becomes kind of nothing, it doesn’t matter. From a meta perspective it’s a contrivance to say that the player character can only act within the mechanical limitations of the game itself regardless of the will of the player (which is the Tarnished’s soul). Same way the dying and coming back in Dark Souls didn’t matter from a mechanical perspective (you can do that in any game) but was made to be a meta thing about it actually existing in that game.
Inside a fangirl there are two wolves, the one that wants to pay into the OF for the content, and the one that wants to pay into the OF to force the relativity guy to talk about kingdom hearts.
I would be nuclear radioactive if I were to talk about Kingdom Hearts. No one would survive...!
@@t-l-g-t-w I would happily wander the wastes as a glowing one just so people stop saying the disney worlds are filler
If you haven't already then you should watch the vids of Regular Pat. He was one of my creative influences when I first came up with this show, and he has a series dedicated to exactly that topic of how the Disney worlds relate to the greater story of Kingdom Hearts for each game.
@@t-l-g-t-w thanks for the recommendation!
maybe u might be on to something with the needle
i think the needle probably always worked and maybe some sort outergod meddling/or just being powerful may have made it ineffective thus being out of that timeline made a loophole
thank god for that mic lol
There is seems to be a fragment missing or censored between 11:33 and 11:37?
Yay!
Entropy increasing is also a consequence of linear time as understood today, since it's no more than a result of statistical likelihoods of the possible final states :) anyways love the vid
HOOOOOOOOOO!!!
The pudding with da proof!
Regarding "If they were, they actually weren't. Therefore, they aren't", that seems reminiscent of the Feynman path integral framework to me. Namely, a particle takes all possible paths from point A in spacetime to point B in spacetime, but only those paths which don't result in the particle canceling itself out exist (existence being distinct from realization; the non-existent paths are still real since they demonstrably affect the existing path).
By the way, on what do you base the claim that real-life reality is not deterministic? Not necessarily saying you're wrong or right, just want to know what angle you're approaching that from.
Determinism only exists in regards to the future. Which by definition does not itself physically exist.
It depends on your personal perspective whether it's ultimately present or not, cause it doesn't do anything.
Ok. I would base non-determinism on the idea that reality cannot be constrained by something outside itself, since anything real enough to do that would itself have to be real. That way, even if the future were a real thing, the behavior of reality would still be internally determined rather than externally determined.
Though that would just be the global perspective. I guess for the local perspective a system would be non-determined to the degree to which it's causes are internal to itself.
I wonder if this is linked to the freedom afforded to magic that you mention at the start of the first video. i.e. that beings in Elden Ring have the freedom to realize their mentations because they are closer to the boundary of their reality in terms of scale than we are. Because of this, there is less of reality that is not mentating about magic, and so magic becomes realized because a large enough fraction of reality has determined it to be so. Similar to how if a bacteria is on an apple, it doesn't do much by itself, but if the bacteria occupy a large enough fraction of the apple, the nature of the apple begins to change.
(or this is just baseless speculation on my part and it's that way because it was written that way)
I really like your videos by the way. I appreciate the principled nature with which you assess the story. Looking forward to your next videos :)
Radahn is regression Ranni is Causality
Let us don't 😂
your voice still needs some work, add some compression, ask a sound guy for help. other than that good job your the best
I’m so glad you keep uploading. Smaug towns voice started to get annoying😅
Did you know if you wait to get the Frenzied Flame until after Melina sacrifices herself, you can get the Frenzy ending without Melina coming after you? Hooray for Chaos!
😎🍻😎
Melina only comes after you because you destroy the world, BECAUSE of her. She's the one that gave you the strength, and the assumption is the reason you even do the frenzy flame is because Shabriri told you it's the only way to save her. If she sacrifices herself and you still do the frenzy flame ending, of course she isn't alive to chase you, but also it's not necessarily her fault that the world ended, although she still strengthened you. It just means you wanted to see the world burn and she had nothing to do with it. I think being responsible for the end of all things is what makes her mad enough to kill you, you make it HER problem.
@@GriFFonRec4 Very true. I just think it's neat you can let her sacrifice herself and still get the Frenzy ending.
😎🍻😎
@@GriFFonRec4Those are wild assumptions. She specifically says “You... have inherited the Frenzied Flame. A pity. You are no longer fit. Our journey together ends here. And remember... Should you rise as the Lord of Chaos, I will kill you, as sure as night follows day. Such is my duty, for allowing you the strength of runes. Goodbye, my companion. Goodbye, Torrent...”
Emphasis on “you are NO LONGER fit”, meaning “I helped you when you were fit to be Lord and now you’re powerful and want to end the world, I want to stop you.” This is after her asking you several times to specifically not follow the path of the frenzied flame. She feels no personal fault for what you have done, she just feels responsible for making you stop since she helped you be strong WHEN YOU WERE STILL FIT. She never mentions or even hints at Shabriri’s promise of her not having to die. She outright states the opposite, that the world will be lifeless. She knows for a fact that literally everyone, including her, will die if you follow frenzy. To her mind she’s dead either way.
Imagine training someone, giving them your expertise, equipment, etc. because they look and act like they’re a great prospect, and for a good while they are. Then they fall off and get corrupted. That’s in no way your fault, but since its your job to do things right, you need to actually stop them from doing it wrong, especially when they can do a lot of damage with the training and equipment you gave them.
Tl;dr - Melina never thinks it’s her fault or that it’s somehow because of her. There’s a difference between a sense of causation and sense of responsibility. She wants to kill you because YOU fucked up, not because she did.
I feel like Gideon being an insufferable dick and your metanarrarive explanation of Vyke standing in for the Tarnished being a failure are basically the same thing.
Just dont gotta be so hard on Gideon. He's one of like four characters that bother even attempting an explanation of the plot, and that's clearly not and enviable task.
nah im second?
This is massively hype
Are you open to the possibility that Elden Ring is an actual prophecy regarding the evolution of our species as brought through by two legitimate prophets of ascending consciousness?
The story isn't *that* good, comrade.
Miyazaki games don't have a main story (except Sekiro). They're designed to allow the player to create their own story within the setting and plot. They are games after-all.
Do you think it's possible that the use of code is not a coincidence? Or perhaps the game's setting itself is a metaphor for the fact we are playing a game? It might be a bit too meta and maybe even a little cringe, but aren't video game worlds something like a land between our physical world and the spiritual world of our imagination?@@t-l-g-t-w
@ratatoskr maybe you can help us out here. I've made a rather provocative comment on this new channel and it seems like @t-l-g-t-w is having a little trouble with replying. One of us might need a reality check.
First
Edit: also pls pin
Yay!