Thank you, Billy- This is a great video, especially for folks just starting out. I don’t want to learn growing pains as a newer woodworker on walnut, so it’s good to see how we can hone our skills with less expensive materials and still see a return on our efforts. It’s always a great day when I get a notification for a Newton Makes video. Have a great weekend!
I completely get it. I used to be terrified of making a mistake and ruining expensive wood. I hope a few folks can see that it's not about the wood but about improving ourselves.
I just want to encourage you to not take petty comments, personally. Because of anonymity, people feel emboldened to heckle and criticize. But they are not the ones creating beautiful things, using their talents to make a mark in the world. You are. Thank you for your humility and excellent craftsmanship.
I agree Billy, thanks for sharing! When I got back in to wood working my wood was a pallet of pallet wood with cut off nails, cost me $50 for it. All kinds of wood. I was able to build enough projects to pay for my table top planner (learned about the wire left in nail holes of pallet wood), table saw, 12” double compound chop saw. Used a punch to knockout the pieces of the nails, used wooded dowel to fill the holes, a little glue and put them in like you would a nail. It didn’t happen overnight, as I was able to add a tool, it help me pay for the next one. I was blessed to have a Direct Tools outlet a hour and half away. Where I could buy either a blemish or reman item. My table saw and chop are blemish with lifetime warranty, where my hair hand sanders, drills, impacts are reman items with a 1 year warranty. Over a year ago I was able to add a 1500x1500 CNC to my shop all thank to that $50 I spent on that pallet, haven’t used any pallet wood in years. A another place for wood are these places you can go throw a axe, those free 2X8’s make nice heavy rustic Flags, yes I have clamped and glued some of the cracks. Time to makes some saw dust 😎
I agree with you. I frequently make items out of construction grade wood if for no other reason then to have proof of concept. Afterward, I will duplicate the process with more expensive or exotic wood. If I have done my job as a craftsman and the project looks nice, I have no problem selling it. Thanks for the video.
I completed my first sellable pine keepsake box using your videos as a tutorial and inspiration to build it. It took me about 4 different tries to get it dialed in with my table saw and it came out amazing. I still have a couple things I want to improve on, but overall I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. I loved the pine look so much I opted for tung oil finish and a few coats of polycrylic and I'm stoked. This one and my next one will be gifts for my older brothers. Thank you for your videos, I love your content. 😎👍
With lumber prices continuing to rise and now gas prices going up which impacts shipping I am also exploring ways to “elevate” pine lumber. Great video.
Excellent video. That exactly how I started with construction lumber. I built a fireplace mantel and a bookcase for the wife and she loves it. Just get started and make stuff! Great content thanks for sharing.
Both boxes are beautiful, and if you are just starting woodworking, pine is a fine material to begin with - it is relatively cheap and rather forgiving. Sure, wallnut looks great as it is - you just need to accent it with some nice mineral finish. On the other hans, you can play a bit with staining to get great aestethic effect even with pine. Where I live (in north Sweden) - wallnut is a rare resource, pine is not, so you have to be creative.
I personally do not sell my stuff... or very few things. I am a cheap guy, so 2 x 4 is my go-to material. Once in a while, I purchase some hardwood to make specific objects, but more rarely now. Thanks for this video and the constant inspiration!
I used to sell a lot. Now, I tend to give it away more often. It's the love of making, not the love of selling for me. But regardless, hopefully people can use what the want without judgment.
Frank and to the point. Superficial is priority in so many people's minds, while practicality is priority in others. We are steered by the clientele we have as well as the clientele we hope to reach. Make what makes you happy and sell it for what you want to, if it doesn't sell, change it a little. You are selling your abilities, your time and your expertise, use your research for pricing and just have fun.
Great video. One thing additional on the side of the pine, it can be easily stained. This would give those who wouldn't want a "plain pine box" an alternative.
Your could even use a darker stain on the pine that mimics a different species of wood and your customer may not even know the difference. I’m not saying this is a good business practice, nor would I encourage anyone to dupe a buyer, but some people don’t care about the species and will pay for what they find aesthetically pleasing.
This is pretty much what I was going to post so I'm glad I read the comments. A lot of people don't know/care about the wood species. It's mainly about the looks.
Yep, it's one of the first things I learned when selling custom items. "what color are you wanting and what is your budget?" Most don't know walnut vs oak vs maple.
Great video! I loved the original video in question. I found it brilliant and eye-opening. I think it really comes down to those two key statements - “I am proud of the box I made.” and “I’d be happy to have this in my house.” Those who can’t make those statements about a box made from construction grade softwood are wood snobs. And that’s OK. As a music snob, I can’t fault them for that. But just as there are people who like highly processed, computer generated/corrected, mindless pop songs, there are always going to be woodworkers who are proud of their creations regardless of the wood species used. (Ironically, although I am a music snob, I am not a wood snob.) And there are things that can be done to dress up projects like this - from staining and dying to shou sugi ban, wood burning - even painting. Another great option is to use small pieces of exotic hardwoods (which don’t cost much - per box - because so little of it is being used). The splines in splined miter joints or through dovetails at the corners, for example. Or handles, trim, inlay, panel frames, and more. I use techniques like these all the time to dress up projects made from relatively inexpensive stock such as poplar and beech. Making the same projects out of walnut, cherry, or oak would be cost prohibitive on my budget. I, too, would be proud of boxes like these. I agree with Billy; it’s the craftsmanship that matters. To me, one of the best things about using inexpensive stock is that you can make gifts for friends and family members that don’t cost a lot - yet they are very much appreciated, usually kept forever, and even passed down… all because of the inherent craftsmanship.
Nice video. I like the side by side comparison you did. I am guilty of thinking I can't sell it if it doesn't use expensive wood. Thanks for making the rusty wheels in my brain turn.
Totally agree with your awesome video and perspective! I’ve made boxes, marker boards, pushpin boards, and stools (the Steve Ramsey design) all from pine 2x4s, stained and unstained, all look amazing to me and everyone that has seen them. Be safe and keep up the great work!
Steve has done so much to inspire people to get into the craft without having to worry about affording the most expensive wood. Frankly, we make stuff that we may not even want to spend the extra money on even when we have the budget.
Awesome video as usual Billy. You put the same amount of craftsmanship and care into both boxes. It's a great reminder that we don't need a shop full of expensive tools or $15 a board foot lumber to make nice things. Do what makes you happy. Thanks! :)
I think nice clean pine is a good looking wood, if there is a strategically placed stabilized knot or two it can be great looking ! I think I’ll pick up some pine and practice getting greatness , terrific channel ! 👍⭐️
You touch on something that I didn't address, that regardless of the material we can use it to our advantage. Make "defects" a focal point. Lean into it. I love it!
Pine is great. It ages nicely to an amber-ish color and will last just as long as any other species if cared for even a little bit. Plus, it's surprising how much clear, prime wood you can find in modern construction lumber. Not to mention how easy it is on your tool sharpness.
Having started woodworking as a hobby, we use pine and fir almost exclusively. We make boxes, and shelves... and none quite as fine as those, but they're painted or carved to a theme... and they easily sell, so far, for a little over 50$. Some have neared 100. Another fantastic, cheaper, box-store quality wood we love is Hemlock. It makes for WONDERFUL looking shelves and boxes. It takes gel-based colored stains really really well. A 8$ board makes about 120$. It always needs scored before a cut to prevent blow-out, but the results can be stunning. And, poplar--this wood, for artistic projects (think, a shelf to hold crystals, or a clock, or a small table for children), is cheap and also takes jel stains really well. You can get BRIGHT blues and yellows and purples with something like Unicorn spit, to make really durable, very unique items... out of a cheap box-store wood most people would never prefer over maple (notoriously hard to stain) or walnut (always natural color). I think the cheaper woods, pine, fir, poplar, and hemock have a LOT of room for making beautiful, sellable projects for woodworkers starting out, and there's no shame in using those. Cedar, while not always cheap, can be found cheap, for projects as well. Recycled fence boards, if you have a jointer and planer, can turn into some fine looking wood, and, makes for GREAT wood to use on the scroll saw, and Dremel, to put details onto the tops of those pine box lids.
Very nice video. And is true, some people can't see pass the material used, they don't see the experience and skills required to do this type of work. Keep the good work.👏👏
I am not a woodworker or a carpenter, but I am fascinated by the process of turning wood into fantastic objects. More than the type of wood that is used, the design and utility are what I appreciate most. By the way, your channel is my favorite, among the dozens I subscribe to, many of them with hundreds of thousands of followers... hugs from Portugal, EU
Great point. You can do the same work with different species and get a significantly faster sale with better wood, but the cost of the supplies is a fraction of the end product pricing. I think you said $3 vs $15 in base cost. You can easily learn the craft starting with scrap lumber in your shop or cheap offcuts from the big box stores. (I love the wood with purple paint on it, the paint planes off and you get decent wood with a very low price.) Hone your skills with a low cost supply. Some of my best starter projects were from 2x4 scraps and discounted cedar fencing. When you are more confident, spend a little more in wood and make the same objects.
Great video and comparison. It is so true about people's perception of woods. If you had of made the one from clear pine the reactions would have been much different I think. The most important thing is take your time and enjoy what you make no matter what it is made from. Someone out there appreciates it.
What an awesome video and I truly admire the way you are addressing the “haters”! Haters are going to hate, but I feel like you just pulled an Eminem at the end of 8 Mile on those haters and took away all their material!! Awesome job and professionalism!!
I don't like hearing people feel dejected by using cheaper material because it's not considered fine woodworking, whatever that means. I hope my message helps people to know that it's really about making stuff and doing the best we can.
Lmao!! "mind bottling"! That made me laugh out loud. Should i worry that the explanation of the meaning of it kind of made sense to me lol?? I`ve sold a number of pine boxes in the 20 to 40 dollar range. Lots of people don`t care. Great video. Thanks
You are so correct My wife and I gave up . We had a great business ,we did wood working pen and ink painting. Cross stitching ,wood turning ,carving wood pieces ,like birds animals wood spirits .We gave up ,People will go to Dollar stores and buy a piece of crap and feel good about it. Keep up your dream. Julien Lamarche
I like your boxes! I have made more jewelry boxes than I can count? I was wondering why you didn't 45 your pieces? Eight 45,s for sides and back cut out for the bottom , make the bottom and top clue it up. No notching, no routing and a lot faster. You never leave the table saw with the exception of cutting the top loose on the band saw. I'm not being critical, you did an excellent job, I was just wondering?
Hey, Billy! Think you could do a video on designing projects in general? Making projects look more classy, fancy, or just more balanced and pleasing to the eye? Unfortunately nobody talks about the design aspect of woodworking and that is half the battle!
Not going to lie I watched that video about 4-5 times lol I really enjoyed it. As far as 2x4 gift boxes I've made a couple of them as gifts for family members over the holidays and they could not believe that it was made from a 2x4, they absolutely loved it. I also showed them a few other mahogany and purple heart boxes I'd just made and they all thought the 2x4 box was better looking and more of a story to it because of what it had originated from. My father-in-law who has worked in construction his whole life was absolutely astounded by the craftsmanship that came out of a construction grade 2x4. In the same sense I would not pay the same amount as a walnut box for a pine box.
And I can imagine the attention you put into those boxes was the same, regardless if it was construction lumber or African exotics. That's something that I love about woodworking. We're all striving to improve our skills and doing our best. 👍
I got no issue with either wood. I use pine in quite a bit of my projects and nobody seems to care except woodworkers. Your average person doesn't care as much about the type of wood as long as it is built well. Great video.
8:14 There just aren’t any hero or villain woods. I think you made that point well. Pine is a wonderful wood. You made a very likable box that would sell easily and, which I really appreciated, you played fair by picking a goat ally plain-Jane, piece of pine. Today, collectors seek ardently after the pieces that mid-nineteenth century carpenters made for their own homes from the pine left over in their shops that they had set by as being to knotty for sale to the public in furniture. 150 years later, with pine aging in that spectacular way that is peculiar to it as a species, these pieces have become treasure. There is an industry out there trying to fake it. A person taking the time to specialize in pine (or any other species) won’t be disappointed in the result. The key is to love the wood you use and to put that wood’s glory on display to the customers through your handling of it. If you’re not doing that, we’ll you’re not really a….
It's all in the finishing. Building a crafty box is good but if it is not finished with equal craftsmanship then it is just another box. The pine is beautiful wood if you know how to finish it. Finishing is the real craft in woodworking that few ever really get, that's where the piece really stands out or not.
Nothing bad about the pine box. If it had a darker stain applied, I doubt it would look that different from the Walnut. Although the hardwood would be more durable, these small boxes aren't going to endure the stress of furniture. Great video.
I grabbed that piece from the corner of the shop. I didn't choose it because it was the prettiest one, but I certainly selective when I bought it at the store a few years ago. That's a whole other topic though. Even if we're picking out 2x4s, it's best not to pick out the bad ones if we can help it!
@@NewtonMakes absolutely. On a commercial jobsite I was working on I seen these laborers about to toss out a pine crate . I said to them can you please put that in the back of my truck, I've made many beautiful projects with it, (on a side note it make me think of Japanese wood work, lots of soft wood with destructive grain) but guy's like us know what to use and what goes in the cull pile. Cheers keep doing what you are doing 👍👍
Very good video and you make an interesting point. One of the first boxes I made was with Balsa plywood and it would never sell, I made the same box from Cherry wood veneer MDF and yes it’s worth $50, the difference in material was $3, time was the same It’s hard to convince people of your time value, the stigma of bling can easily overshadow quality
Shootout at the lumber corral. Great video, Billy. I understand the species discrimination. I like to use red oak and there are a lot of people who disparage it. I don't care. I do what I like. Take care. Bill
A big aspect is what we grew up with. As an 80s kid everything in the house was brown. So I stayed away from oak. But now I've come back around to it. Plus, I always love to chainsaw mill it.
Great comparison! I prefer the walnut..but pine is a beautiful wood! I'm a cabinet maker of 40 years . I've worked with many..many species..walnut happens to be my favorite.. WELL DONE SIR!!!
With that much experience you've probably seen craftsmanship in ways that most couldn't phantom. And you can probably spot when someone put their heart and soul into an item, regardless of the material used. 👍
There's a lot of snobbery in the woodworking community. Pine can be just as valuable as walnut. It all comes down to marketing and the customer. Ask someone who is shopping for a gift and doesn't know what goes into making something by hand and they just want a low price. Someone who appreciates the craftsmanship will pay more because of that appreciation. Nice work and great point to bring up for discussion. Personally I like the batch box from 2x4 plan, great side hustle. Get a laser engraver and make even more money. Too bad 2x4s are gonna cost a fortune soon, currently they're 9$ at Lowes for a framing stud!
Cedar and popular happen to be my favorite species both of which are relatively inexpensive but full of character in my humble opinion. I personally do not like the look of walnut (too dark). That being said I make what I like if someone else likes it great if someone wants to buy it even better, all money goes back into what I'm passionate about, making things.
I thought your previous vid about the pine was cool. People just like to grandstand on labels and complain to make themselves feel better. Thanks for another awesome vid bud.
At 3:28 I noticed you have tape on the raise and lower mechanism. I have the exact same one and there's an adjustment to make it not move while router is on. I used to do the same thing then found that, tightened it up and it is now wonderful. Just passing along info. Now if you have that on there for other reasons then disregard this message. 🤣🤣
Just came across this video. I am in the group where construction pine doesn't interest me at all for 99% of my projects. Pine is common, cheap, easy to aquire and used by everyone. Walnut is fine and a popular hardwood used by a lot of folks. It's quite expensive compared to pine and not as available which adds to the overall value/price point. I like to use local hardwoods woods found in my area that are not that commercially available as I can use it to up sale the piece. The wood type is unique to itself and not something most makers use so I can leverage that point in my favor. Currently I have been milling lots of mesquite, pecan and hackberry trees into lumber. I have little issue getting more for it and it's truly superior to pine in every way other than availability.
I think people who go crazy when someone does something "nice" from pine are more jealous than anything. Pine is not always the easiest to work with, so getting a good result from it takes SKILL and PATIENCE. It's not always the right choice because of the color, but it's a wood that gets far too much flack. The only reason it's not economical to use construction lumber is that you have to spend more time finding the best from a large stack of boards, and sometimes you end up with a lot of lumber that you can't use, such as nasty sections from an otherwise great board.
Walnut is overrated. I am an oak guy 😂. Love the your work, and as long you are going to make stuff from wood (any species) I am going to keep watching.
i've been using scrap contruction lumber on some little projects and after you carve it up you get some nice grains, etc. stuff doesn't look bad and considering how much more something like walnut goes for per board well. using contruction lumber is a lot cheaper and a cost effective way for someone honing their skills to improve without spending all the money on something you might not get perfect. sure some say they wouldn't pay 5 bucks for a nice box simply because some people want something for nothing and you bet if they could buy it off you for five those same people would turn around and sell it for more, in a nutshell they're full of crap. i tend to try to mix some scap of better woods into some stuff i'm making it makes it look a bit more fancy and stuff.
The other thing is that most mass produced boxes on Ali, Temu etc are made from cheap wood such as pine to maximise profit. So people expect to pay that for cheap wood, even though the labour to make the boxes is identical.
There are snobs in every field...... about 25 years ago I went to the lumber mill and bought all the pine cutoffs I could (100 dollars at that time) fill the S10 up..... went into the basement for 2 weeks and made some shelves. Went to a craft Fair and sold out....... 4,500 dollars later. It can be done if you do a good job!
Most nonwoodworkers have little idea about wood types. If the pine is stained to walnut or oak they will snap it up just the same as the real wood types that the stain represents.
It would be interesting to see how a walnut box with less craftsmanship sells compared to a pine box with good craftsmanship (like the one you made here).
Hey Billy i think the pine box is just as beautiful as the walnut box to be honest because not everyone can afford the more pricey wood and that’s not a jab at them bye no means beautiful work
SECOND COMMENT! THIS NEVER HAPPENS! WOO!!! (Keep up the good work, man! You're an inspiration to apartment dwellers like me to finally buy a house with a garage in which I can put tools. 🙂😝)
Great video and circling back on the 2x4 box build... this is where people can't see past the cover like you said because of the way people thing now is because of TV and stuff but thats a whole nother topic 🤣awesome video brother
I was really shocked at the pure hate for the pine box in the first video. But at the same time we can keep supporting each other and assure them that someone's opinion is just that, only an opinion.
Here in the UK, I tried some American Pine, what patterns, then finished off with boiled linseed oil, my only wish is, that l'd brought more american pine, cannot find any.
What I think that is funny about the people complaining: Would they life in an area without many pinewood, they would think this wood is exotic and way more expensive
it's always nice to make something out of walnut or cherry, or maple whatever hardwood of your choice, but practicing on pine is fine, and if you make something nice out of pine or spruce it's still nice, it's just made out of softer wood.. I guess the value is a little less in my eyes, but most people don't pay that much attention especially if you stain it dark and throw some poly on it.
I think both boxes are nice. I work with all types on wood ( well walnut , cherry , oak , hickory and pine mostly. I choose the right wood for the project. Example I just made some floating shelfs I had all kinds of lumber in my shop. To the big blue store I went and got pine. After stain finish and hung on the wall had a family member ask me to make them some walnut shelfs. Should have seen there face when I said that's pine lol. I love woodworking if I could afford it I'd make everything out of hardwood but for small projects why use high dollar wood ? Just my small 2 cents.
Excellent example of customizing the material. I made my daughter's nightstand out of poplar, not maple. I knew what would happen to it. She's my mini me. We all have to make those decisions.
I think many of us are naturally wood snobs, and you prove it rather well, the hardwood / more expensive wood is better to own cos many think of softwoods as less durable. But forgetting it’s used for construction. Also maybe it’s too common , so it’s valued less .
I do...well learning...fine Woodworking...do a bunch of great things...ya know what sells the best for me? My carved 2x4 flags. I love walnut but not a thing wrong with the pine.
Pine gets a bad wrap. I can't imagine the bulk of people two hundred years ago scoffing at a pine box. It could be the opposite. Why waste that good hardwood (aka firewood) on a box when pine is more useful?
Great video. Of course all the wood is not this same. Different species have different benefits in strength or how easy is to work with them. But like you said for me as a beginner I am working a lot with cheaper wood. My joinery skills have still long way to go. So it is better to practice on cheeper material just on case I mess up something.
I was waiting for you to put a Walnut stain on the pine !!! I bet it would be a major contester. I make a LOT of things out of Pine simply because I don't have a ton of money to spend on expensive or exotic wood. I'm thinking if those supreme woodworkers are THAT good, why are they wasting their time here ? They should be out WOWING people with their expertise !!
I thought about it, but at the same time I don't want people to then judge it by my staining skills and not the build skills. I imagine most the commenters are not woodworkers. They are consumers.
Too bad you had to turn off the comments on the earlier pine box video. If your careful and selective with grain and knots, it can come out quite beautiful. I just made a box for friends from some 2X6's that came out of an exterior wall of my house during a renovation project. It came out great and they loved it. Again, being selective on grain and knot choices is the key.
How can one put value of the wood over the woodworker? Walnut is dark and rich, pine/spruce is somewhat plain and boring BUT it terms of skill and the overall project, it's the exact same box but for some, it isn't the same because of the species. Ah well, pleasing everyone is nearly impossible. Thanks for sharing, awesome channel.
Wood species doesn't dictate skill and craftsmanship, also there's a trade off where if you spend $100/board ft vs $5 and how much someone is willing to spend on a box etc.
Interesting, yea I feel like before I knew about wood I wouldn't care what it was made out of.. it's just working with it, knowing it's the cheapest that makes me biased now.
Agree with most of your conclusions. But you are somewhat comparing different things. The pine has great grain, which definitely makes it look better than it would with grain similar to the walnut.
I had to laugh ... the frame with the guy holding a "dope box for $50", and your box looks pretty close to a box I used to keep my dope in ... back in the day ...
Making small things like boxes various size boxes for my grandaughters AKA "little destructos" pine is just fine , they would destroy a pencil box made of titanium in the same amount of time it takes them to destroy one made of pine or even cheaper .... pallet wood .
Thank you, Billy- This is a great video, especially for folks just starting out. I don’t want to learn growing pains as a newer woodworker on walnut, so it’s good to see how we can hone our skills with less expensive materials and still see a return on our efforts. It’s always a great day when I get a notification for a Newton Makes video. Have a great weekend!
I completely get it. I used to be terrified of making a mistake and ruining expensive wood. I hope a few folks can see that it's not about the wood but about improving ourselves.
I just want to encourage you to not take petty comments, personally. Because of anonymity, people feel emboldened to heckle and criticize. But they are not the ones creating beautiful things, using their talents to make a mark in the world. You are. Thank you for your humility and excellent craftsmanship.
I agree Billy, thanks for sharing! When I got back in to wood working my wood was a pallet of pallet wood with cut off nails, cost me $50 for it. All kinds of wood. I was able to build enough projects to pay for my table top planner (learned about the wire left in nail holes of pallet wood), table saw, 12” double compound chop saw. Used a punch to knockout the pieces of the nails, used wooded dowel to fill the holes, a little glue and put them in like you would a nail. It didn’t happen overnight, as I was able to add a tool, it help me pay for the next one. I was blessed to have a Direct Tools outlet a hour and half away. Where I could buy either a blemish or reman item. My table saw and chop are blemish with lifetime warranty, where my hair hand sanders, drills, impacts are reman items with a 1 year warranty. Over a year ago I was able to add a 1500x1500 CNC to my shop all thank to that $50 I spent on that pallet, haven’t used any pallet wood in years. A another place for wood are these places you can go throw a axe, those free 2X8’s make nice heavy rustic Flags, yes I have clamped and glued some of the cracks. Time to makes some saw dust 😎
I agree with you. I frequently make items out of construction grade wood if for no other reason then to have proof of concept. Afterward, I will duplicate the process with more expensive or exotic wood. If I have done my job as a craftsman and the project looks nice, I have no problem selling it. Thanks for the video.
I think there both great. Someone can't afford $50 and the Pine would be perfect for them. You gave them a choice. Love it !
I completed my first sellable pine keepsake box using your videos as a tutorial and inspiration to build it.
It took me about 4 different tries to get it dialed in with my table saw and it came out amazing.
I still have a couple things I want to improve on, but overall I couldn't be happier with how it turned out.
I loved the pine look so much I opted for tung oil finish and a few coats of polycrylic and I'm stoked.
This one and my next one will be gifts for my older brothers.
Thank you for your videos, I love your content. 😎👍
Just getting started again after many years. Been making pine first then the more expensive woods. Just me. Appreciate both. It's the workmanship.
With lumber prices continuing to rise and now gas prices going up which impacts shipping I am also exploring ways to “elevate” pine lumber. Great video.
Billy, I totally agree with you! Great video...
Thanks, Rick
Excellent video. That exactly how I started with construction lumber. I built a fireplace mantel and a bookcase for the wife and she loves it. Just get started and make stuff! Great content thanks for sharing.
That's awesome!
Both boxes are beautiful, and if you are just starting woodworking, pine is a fine material to begin with - it is relatively cheap and rather forgiving. Sure, wallnut looks great as it is - you just need to accent it with some nice mineral finish. On the other hans, you can play a bit with staining to get great aestethic effect even with pine. Where I live (in north Sweden) - wallnut is a rare resource, pine is not, so you have to be creative.
I personally do not sell my stuff... or very few things. I am a cheap guy, so 2 x 4 is my go-to material. Once in a while, I purchase some hardwood to make specific objects, but more rarely now.
Thanks for this video and the constant inspiration!
I used to sell a lot. Now, I tend to give it away more often. It's the love of making, not the love of selling for me. But regardless, hopefully people can use what the want without judgment.
Frank and to the point. Superficial is priority in so many people's minds, while practicality is priority in others. We are steered by the clientele we have as well as the clientele we hope to reach. Make what makes you happy and sell it for what you want to, if it doesn't sell, change it a little. You are selling your abilities, your time and your expertise, use your research for pricing and just have fun.
Yep and I hope people never forget that last point you made. 👍
Great video. One thing additional on the side of the pine, it can be easily stained. This would give those who wouldn't want a "plain pine box" an alternative.
Was just going to say that. That pine box would look amazing stained.
Your could even use a darker stain on the pine that mimics a different species of wood and your customer may not even know the difference. I’m not saying this is a good business practice, nor would I encourage anyone to dupe a buyer, but some people don’t care about the species and will pay for what they find aesthetically pleasing.
This is pretty much what I was going to post so I'm glad I read the comments. A lot of people don't know/care about the wood species. It's mainly about the looks.
Yep, it's one of the first things I learned when selling custom items. "what color are you wanting and what is your budget?" Most don't know walnut vs oak vs maple.
Great video! I loved the original video in question. I found it brilliant and eye-opening. I think it really comes down to those two key statements - “I am proud of the box I made.” and “I’d be happy to have this in my house.” Those who can’t make those statements about a box made from construction grade softwood are wood snobs. And that’s OK. As a music snob, I can’t fault them for that. But just as there are people who like highly processed, computer generated/corrected, mindless pop songs, there are always going to be woodworkers who are proud of their creations regardless of the wood species used. (Ironically, although I am a music snob, I am not a wood snob.) And there are things that can be done to dress up projects like this - from staining and dying to shou sugi ban, wood burning - even painting. Another great option is to use small pieces of exotic hardwoods (which don’t cost much - per box - because so little of it is being used). The splines in splined miter joints or through dovetails at the corners, for example. Or handles, trim, inlay, panel frames, and more. I use techniques like these all the time to dress up projects made from relatively inexpensive stock such as poplar and beech. Making the same projects out of walnut, cherry, or oak would be cost prohibitive on my budget. I, too, would be proud of boxes like these. I agree with Billy; it’s the craftsmanship that matters. To me, one of the best things about using inexpensive stock is that you can make gifts for friends and family members that don’t cost a lot - yet they are very much appreciated, usually kept forever, and even passed down… all because of the inherent craftsmanship.
Nice video. I like the side by side comparison you did. I am guilty of thinking I can't sell it if it doesn't use expensive wood. Thanks for making the rusty wheels in my brain turn.
I am fairly new to your videos. I am enjoying your tutorials. They are strait forward and easy to understand and help me in my learning process.
Great episode. Liked your thinking and explanation.
Totally agree with your awesome video and perspective! I’ve made boxes, marker boards, pushpin boards, and stools (the Steve Ramsey design) all from pine 2x4s, stained and unstained, all look amazing to me and everyone that has seen them.
Be safe and keep up the great work!
Oh, and a shoeshine box too!
Steve has done so much to inspire people to get into the craft without having to worry about affording the most expensive wood. Frankly, we make stuff that we may not even want to spend the extra money on even when we have the budget.
Thanks for the video great builds when I use cheap pine I try to throw some walnut in it somewhere to kinda make it look alittle better
Like little walnut sprinkles? The bacon bits of wood.
Awesome video as usual Billy. You put the same amount of craftsmanship and care into both boxes. It's a great reminder that we don't need a shop full of expensive tools or $15 a board foot lumber to make nice things. Do what makes you happy. Thanks! :)
Thanks, exactly what I was trying to say. I hope no one gets deterred because they can't afford expensive materials.
I think nice clean pine is a good looking wood, if there is a strategically placed stabilized knot or two it can be great looking ! I think I’ll pick up some pine and practice getting greatness , terrific channel ! 👍⭐️
You touch on something that I didn't address, that regardless of the material we can use it to our advantage. Make "defects" a focal point. Lean into it. I love it!
Really great content/delivery. and the craftsmanship is outstanding! Thanks much for sharing!
Pine is great. It ages nicely to an amber-ish color and will last just as long as any other species if cared for even a little bit. Plus, it's surprising how much clear, prime wood you can find in modern construction lumber. Not to mention how easy it is on your tool sharpness.
Having started woodworking as a hobby, we use pine and fir almost exclusively. We make boxes, and shelves... and none quite as fine as those, but they're painted or carved to a theme... and they easily sell, so far, for a little over 50$. Some have neared 100.
Another fantastic, cheaper, box-store quality wood we love is Hemlock. It makes for WONDERFUL looking shelves and boxes. It takes gel-based colored stains really really well. A 8$ board makes about 120$. It always needs scored before a cut to prevent blow-out, but the results can be stunning.
And, poplar--this wood, for artistic projects (think, a shelf to hold crystals, or a clock, or a small table for children), is cheap and also takes jel stains really well. You can get BRIGHT blues and yellows and purples with something like Unicorn spit, to make really durable, very unique items... out of a cheap box-store wood most people would never prefer over maple (notoriously hard to stain) or walnut (always natural color).
I think the cheaper woods, pine, fir, poplar, and hemock have a LOT of room for making beautiful, sellable projects for woodworkers starting out, and there's no shame in using those. Cedar, while not always cheap, can be found cheap, for projects as well. Recycled fence boards, if you have a jointer and planer, can turn into some fine looking wood, and, makes for GREAT wood to use on the scroll saw, and Dremel, to put details onto the tops of those pine box lids.
Totally agree with you! Great video.
Very nice video. And is true, some people can't see pass the material used, they don't see the experience and skills required to do this type of work. Keep the good work.👏👏
Hopefully we can all give a few compliments to our fellow makers when we see them kicking butt, regardless of the material.
I am not a woodworker or a carpenter, but I am fascinated by the process of turning wood into fantastic objects. More than the type of wood that is used, the design and utility are what I appreciate most. By the way, your channel is my favorite, among the dozens I subscribe to, many of them with hundreds of thousands of followers... hugs from Portugal, EU
That's very kind to hear. I try to show my thought process in making something. I find that stuff interesting.
Excellent video.
Thanks!
Well done, well said, nice boxes.
Thanks
Great point.
You can do the same work with different species and get a significantly faster sale with better wood, but the cost of the supplies is a fraction of the end product pricing. I think you said $3 vs $15 in base cost.
You can easily learn the craft starting with scrap lumber in your shop or cheap offcuts from the big box stores. (I love the wood with purple paint on it, the paint planes off and you get decent wood with a very low price.) Hone your skills with a low cost supply. Some of my best starter projects were from 2x4 scraps and discounted cedar fencing.
When you are more confident, spend a little more in wood and make the same objects.
Hopefully, people will build from whatever brings them happiness. That's what it's really all about.
Thanks, great point great vid
Great video and comparison. It is so true about people's perception of woods. If you had of made the one from clear pine the reactions would have been much different I think. The most important thing is take your time and enjoy what you make no matter what it is made from. Someone out there appreciates it.
What an awesome video and I truly admire the way you are addressing the “haters”! Haters are going to hate, but I feel like you just pulled an Eminem at the end of 8 Mile on those haters and took away all their material!!
Awesome job and professionalism!!
I don't like hearing people feel dejected by using cheaper material because it's not considered fine woodworking, whatever that means. I hope my message helps people to know that it's really about making stuff and doing the best we can.
Lmao!! "mind bottling"! That made me laugh out loud. Should i worry that the explanation of the meaning of it kind of made sense to me lol?? I`ve sold a number of pine boxes in the 20 to 40 dollar range. Lots of people don`t care. Great video. Thanks
I mean, sometimes my mind is just so bottled up. 🤷♂️
You are so correct My wife and I gave up . We had a great business ,we did wood working
pen and ink painting. Cross stitching ,wood turning ,carving wood pieces ,like birds animals
wood spirits .We gave up ,People will go to Dollar stores and buy a piece of crap and feel
good about it. Keep up your dream. Julien Lamarche
I like your boxes! I have made more jewelry boxes than I can count? I was wondering why you didn't 45 your pieces? Eight 45,s for sides and back cut out for the bottom , make the bottom and top clue it up. No notching, no routing and a lot faster. You never leave the table saw with the exception of cutting the top loose on the band saw. I'm not being critical, you did an excellent job, I was just wondering?
I always enjoyed doing pine projects, I liked the way the spicy-acrid smell that it gave to the shop.
My wife loves it when I come in from the garage smelling like sawdust :P
What are you dimensions for your box design? Great perspective on the value of craftsmanship.
I think I made them 8.5" x 5.5 x 3
Haters gonna hate no matter what! Love it new sub
Hey, Billy! Think you could do a video on designing projects in general? Making projects look more classy, fancy, or just more balanced and pleasing to the eye? Unfortunately nobody talks about the design aspect of woodworking and that is half the battle!
Let me think about how I would tackle that. It's a good idea but also tough because of the subjectivity.
I see the value in the pine box as I'd add value by decorating on the out side thanks for the video
Excellent idea!
At the end of the day the time and effort put in makes them worth the money. Regardless of the species or whether it's scrap or purpose bought 😜😜😋
100%
Not going to lie I watched that video about 4-5 times lol I really enjoyed it. As far as 2x4 gift boxes I've made a couple of them as gifts for family members over the holidays and they could not believe that it was made from a 2x4, they absolutely loved it. I also showed them a few other mahogany and purple heart boxes I'd just made and they all thought the 2x4 box was better looking and more of a story to it because of what it had originated from. My father-in-law who has worked in construction his whole life was absolutely astounded by the craftsmanship that came out of a construction grade 2x4. In the same sense I would not pay the same amount as a walnut box for a pine box.
And I can imagine the attention you put into those boxes was the same, regardless if it was construction lumber or African exotics. That's something that I love about woodworking. We're all striving to improve our skills and doing our best. 👍
I got no issue with either wood. I use pine in quite a bit of my projects and nobody seems to care except woodworkers. Your average person doesn't care as much about the type of wood as long as it is built well. Great video.
Yep, they look at a box, like it, buy it. No idea what goes into it.
Good point joe Pearson. There are snobs in every profession including backyard woodworkers.
8:14 There just aren’t any hero or villain woods. I think you made that point well. Pine is a wonderful wood. You made a very likable box that would sell easily and, which I really appreciated, you played fair by picking a goat ally plain-Jane, piece of pine. Today, collectors seek ardently after the pieces that mid-nineteenth century carpenters made for their own homes from the pine left over in their shops that they had set by as being to knotty for sale to the public in furniture. 150 years later, with pine aging in that spectacular way that is peculiar to it as a species, these pieces have become treasure. There is an industry out there trying to fake it. A person taking the time to specialize in pine (or any other species) won’t be disappointed in the result. The key is to love the wood you use and to put that wood’s glory on display to the customers through your handling of it. If you’re not doing that, we’ll you’re not really a….
Great video different ideas.
Glad to hear you liked it
thank you
Damn the critics! Full speed ahead! Build what you want, how you want it, when you want to build it!
It's all in the finishing. Building a crafty box is good but if it is not finished with equal craftsmanship then it is just another box. The pine is beautiful wood if you know how to finish it. Finishing is the real craft in woodworking that few ever really get, that's where the piece really stands out or not.
Nothing bad about the pine box. If it had a darker stain applied, I doubt it would look that different from the Walnut. Although the hardwood would be more durable, these small boxes aren't going to endure the stress of furniture. Great video.
Both boxes are fantastic. I see you've selected the better cuts of the spf.
I grabbed that piece from the corner of the shop. I didn't choose it because it was the prettiest one, but I certainly selective when I bought it at the store a few years ago. That's a whole other topic though. Even if we're picking out 2x4s, it's best not to pick out the bad ones if we can help it!
@@NewtonMakes absolutely. On a commercial jobsite I was working on I seen these laborers about to toss out a pine crate . I said to them can you please put that in the back of my truck, I've made many beautiful projects with it, (on a side note it make me think of Japanese wood work, lots of soft wood with destructive grain) but guy's like us know what to use and what goes in the cull pile.
Cheers keep doing what you are doing 👍👍
Very good video and you make an interesting point.
One of the first boxes I made was with Balsa plywood and it would never sell, I made the same box from Cherry wood veneer MDF and yes it’s worth $50, the difference in material was $3, time was the same
It’s hard to convince people of your time value, the stigma of bling can easily overshadow quality
Love both
Shootout at the lumber corral. Great video, Billy. I understand the species discrimination. I like to use red oak and there are a lot of people who disparage it. I don't care. I do what I like. Take care.
Bill
A big aspect is what we grew up with. As an 80s kid everything in the house was brown. So I stayed away from oak. But now I've come back around to it. Plus, I always love to chainsaw mill it.
Red oak is a beautiful wood. I think a lot of people hate it because they heard one of the cool kids on RUclips say they hate it.
@@dannyhale7645 You're probably right. I also don't stain it dark. I prefer natural. Thanks for agreeing with me.
Great comparison! I prefer the walnut..but pine is a beautiful wood! I'm a cabinet maker of 40 years . I've worked with many..many species..walnut happens to be my favorite.. WELL DONE SIR!!!
With that much experience you've probably seen craftsmanship in ways that most couldn't phantom. And you can probably spot when someone put their heart and soul into an item, regardless of the material used. 👍
@@NewtonMakes amen
Quarter sawn pine is beautiful wood. I built an Adirondack chair out of all quarter sawn pine and it’s really beautiful
There's a lot of snobbery in the woodworking community. Pine can be just as valuable as walnut. It all comes down to marketing and the customer. Ask someone who is shopping for a gift and doesn't know what goes into making something by hand and they just want a low price. Someone who appreciates the craftsmanship will pay more because of that appreciation. Nice work and great point to bring up for discussion. Personally I like the batch box from 2x4 plan, great side hustle. Get a laser engraver and make even more money. Too bad 2x4s are gonna cost a fortune soon, currently they're 9$ at Lowes for a framing stud!
Cedar and popular happen to be my favorite species both of which are relatively inexpensive but full of character in my humble opinion. I personally do not like the look of walnut (too dark). That being said I make what I like if someone else likes it great if someone wants to buy it even better, all money goes back into what I'm passionate about, making things.
I thought your previous vid about the pine was cool. People just like to grandstand on labels and complain to make themselves feel better. Thanks for another awesome vid bud.
At 3:28 I noticed you have tape on the raise and lower mechanism. I have the exact same one and there's an adjustment to make it not move while router is on. I used to do the same thing then found that, tightened it up and it is now wonderful. Just passing along info. Now if you have that on there for other reasons then disregard this message. 🤣🤣
I tried but I'll try it again, thanks 👍
Exactly..!
LMAO.... a year to the day between these videos...... good job!
Seems like the right time to address it!
Well said . It's the craft not the wood
Just came across this video. I am in the group where construction pine doesn't interest me at all for 99% of my projects. Pine is common, cheap, easy to aquire and used by everyone.
Walnut is fine and a popular hardwood used by a lot of folks. It's quite expensive compared to pine and not as available which adds to the overall value/price point.
I like to use local hardwoods woods found in my area that are not that commercially available as I can use it to up sale the piece. The wood type is unique to itself and not something most makers use so I can leverage that point in my favor. Currently I have been milling lots of mesquite, pecan and hackberry trees into lumber. I have little issue getting more for it and it's truly superior to pine in every way other than availability.
As a beginner I started with packing crates.
If you start with firewood and end up with firewood at least you don't cry too much.
I think people who go crazy when someone does something "nice" from pine are more jealous than anything. Pine is not always the easiest to work with, so getting a good result from it takes SKILL and PATIENCE. It's not always the right choice because of the color, but it's a wood that gets far too much flack.
The only reason it's not economical to use construction lumber is that you have to spend more time finding the best from a large stack of boards, and sometimes you end up with a lot of lumber that you can't use, such as nasty sections from an otherwise great board.
Walnut is overrated. I am an oak guy 😂. Love the your work, and as long you are going to make stuff from wood (any species) I am going to keep watching.
I feel like I have a decent relationship with most species. Except black locust. We are frenemies.
i've been using scrap contruction lumber on some little projects and after you carve it up you get some nice grains, etc. stuff doesn't look bad and considering how much more something like walnut goes for per board well. using contruction lumber is a lot cheaper and a cost effective way for someone honing their skills to improve without spending all the money on something you might not get perfect. sure some say they wouldn't pay 5 bucks for a nice box simply because some people want something for nothing and you bet if they could buy it off you for five those same people would turn around and sell it for more, in a nutshell they're full of crap. i tend to try to mix some scap of better woods into some stuff i'm making it makes it look a bit more fancy and stuff.
The other thing is that most mass produced boxes on Ali, Temu etc are made from cheap wood such as pine to maximise profit. So people expect to pay that for cheap wood, even though the labour to make the boxes is identical.
There are snobs in every field...... about 25 years ago I went to the lumber mill and bought all the pine cutoffs I could (100 dollars at that time) fill the S10 up..... went into the basement for 2 weeks and made some shelves. Went to a craft Fair and sold out....... 4,500 dollars later. It can be done if you do a good job!
Absolutely!
Most nonwoodworkers have little idea about wood types. If the pine is stained to walnut or oak they will snap it up just the same as the real wood types that the stain represents.
It would be interesting to see how a walnut box with less craftsmanship sells compared to a pine box with good craftsmanship (like the one you made here).
Hey Billy i think the pine box is just as beautiful as the walnut box to be honest because not everyone can afford the more pricey wood and that’s not a jab at them bye no means beautiful work
I live at the shore. Lots of pine. You can sell those pine boxes all over the place for $30 easy craft fair sale.
You should put them both up for sale on eBay or somesuch site and see how high the bidding goes. Let the market decide:-).
Perhaps that would be a follow up video. 🤔
SECOND COMMENT! THIS NEVER HAPPENS! WOO!!! (Keep up the good work, man! You're an inspiration to apartment dwellers like me to finally buy a house with a garage in which I can put tools. 🙂😝)
My video came out a day late. I did this just for you but I expect you to be first next time!
Mind bottling LMAO! One of the funniest scenes
Much more appealing if written ( Made of Southern Pine) when selling. That's what it's called when buying it in my area.
Great video and circling back on the 2x4 box build... this is where people can't see past the cover like you said because of the way people thing now is because of TV and stuff but thats a whole nother topic 🤣awesome video brother
I was really shocked at the pure hate for the pine box in the first video. But at the same time we can keep supporting each other and assure them that someone's opinion is just that, only an opinion.
Here in the UK, I tried some American Pine, what patterns, then finished off with boiled linseed oil, my only wish is, that l'd brought more american pine, cannot find any.
What I think that is funny about the people complaining: Would they life in an area without many pinewood, they would think this wood is exotic and way more expensive
it's always nice to make something out of walnut or cherry, or maple whatever hardwood of your choice, but practicing on pine is fine, and if you make something nice out of pine or spruce it's still nice, it's just made out of softer wood.. I guess the value is a little less in my eyes, but most people don't pay that much attention especially if you stain it dark and throw some poly on it.
I would keep stuff I never use in the walnut box; and stuff I used everyday in the pine box, everyday.
I think both boxes are nice. I work with all types on wood ( well walnut , cherry , oak , hickory and pine mostly. I choose the right wood for the project. Example I just made some floating shelfs I had all kinds of lumber in my shop. To the big blue store I went and got pine. After stain finish and hung on the wall had a family member ask me to make them some walnut shelfs. Should have seen there face when I said that's pine lol. I love woodworking if I could afford it I'd make everything out of hardwood but for small projects why use high dollar wood ? Just my small 2 cents.
Excellent example of customizing the material. I made my daughter's nightstand out of poplar, not maple. I knew what would happen to it. She's my mini me. We all have to make those decisions.
I think many of us are naturally wood snobs, and you prove it rather well, the hardwood / more expensive wood is better to own cos many think of softwoods as less durable. But forgetting it’s used for construction. Also maybe it’s too common , so it’s valued less .
I do...well learning...fine Woodworking...do a bunch of great things...ya know what sells the best for me? My carved 2x4 flags. I love walnut but not a thing wrong with the pine.
Pine gets a bad wrap. I can't imagine the bulk of people two hundred years ago scoffing at a pine box. It could be the opposite. Why waste that good hardwood (aka firewood) on a box when pine is more useful?
@@NewtonMakes totally agree...the whole fun is using what ya got anyways
Great video. Of course all the wood is not this same. Different species have different benefits in strength or how easy is to work with them. But like you said for me as a beginner I am working a lot with cheaper wood. My joinery skills have still long way to go. So it is better to practice on cheeper material just on case I mess up something.
I was waiting for you to put a Walnut stain on the pine !!! I bet it would be a major contester. I make a LOT of things out of Pine simply because I don't have a ton of money to spend on expensive or exotic wood. I'm thinking if those supreme woodworkers are THAT good, why are they wasting their time here ? They should be out WOWING people with their expertise !!
I thought about it, but at the same time I don't want people to then judge it by my staining skills and not the build skills. I imagine most the commenters are not woodworkers. They are consumers.
Too bad you had to turn off the comments on the earlier pine box video. If your careful and selective with grain and knots, it can come out quite beautiful. I just made a box for friends from some 2X6's that came out of an exterior wall of my house during a renovation project. It came out great and they loved it. Again, being selective on grain and knot choices is the key.
How can one put value of the wood over the woodworker?
Walnut is dark and rich, pine/spruce is somewhat plain and boring BUT it terms of skill and the overall project, it's the exact same box but for some, it isn't the same because of the species.
Ah well, pleasing everyone is nearly impossible.
Thanks for sharing, awesome channel.
Wood species doesn't dictate skill and craftsmanship, also there's a trade off where if you spend $100/board ft vs $5 and how much someone is willing to spend on a box etc.
Interesting, yea I feel like before I knew about wood I wouldn't care what it was made out of.. it's just working with it, knowing it's the cheapest that makes me biased now.
Pine is Fine!
So, so fine!
Agree with most of your conclusions. But you are somewhat comparing different things. The pine has great grain, which definitely makes it look better than it would with grain similar to the walnut.
I had to laugh ... the frame with the guy holding a "dope box for $50", and your box looks pretty close to a box I used to keep my dope in ... back in the day ...
Making small things like boxes various size boxes for my grandaughters AKA "little destructos" pine is just fine , they would destroy a pencil box made of titanium in the same amount of time it takes them to destroy one made of pine or even cheaper .... pallet wood .
As someone with a pair of destructos myself I fully understand!
With the price of Red Oak dropping so fast, it's more economical to build boxes out of oak than pine.
I don't know why the underrated popular opinion in pine, pine it's a great wood.
I really like pine too.