Thank you for pointing out the struggles and challenges of time gone by. Nostalgia is not always looking through rose colored glasses. Those who yearn and reminisce about the good old days, I’m not quite sure. I prefer our kinder and more knowledgeable world of today.
History is there for us to learn from our mistakes. I sincerely hope the baseball community, and the world as a whole continues to trend in a good direction.
Sorry but our world today is not kinder my friend..Yes we live in the knowledge and information age..But as unknowledgeble as we were about certain things and many prejudices those were kinder times as opposed to today..
I was born in Seattle in 1973, where I grew up. Japanese-American and male. When a closer blows a save, sure I see them dejected, but Donnie Moore giving up this home run, Donnie looked DEVASTATED, to another level. Maybe, it's watching this many times, in hindsight, after his personal tragedy, that brings light to it. Compare in the 2001 World Series, when BK Kim blew 2 games. It was more "frustration and disgust in himself," that I saw. Donnie Moore looked downright sad and defeated, after that Hendu home run.
I was at game 5 in Anaheim. My Army buddy from Lowell, Mass came to Anaheim where I lived to see me and my wife and we were going to the game. The field was surrounded by security and police ready for us to fly on the field and celebrate. Everyone was going crazy, including me. Then the pitch. The whole stadium was deflated. My buddy Marty was happy, him being from Mass.The rest is history. I just watched the Dodgers win game one of the WS with Freddie Freeman hitting a grand slam. Later I thought of the Yankees pitcher who gave up the pitch, Cortes, and it brought back memories and here I am. It reminded me of the Angel game, hopefully with a different outcome.
After BK Kim blew his second 2001 World Series game, one writer asked Bill Bremley, "Does Kim know the Donnie Moore story?" Bremley disgustedly said, "No. And, I don't think that he needs to." Back in 2001, I agreed with his disgust. In hindsight, maybe the question wasn't so dumb after all. It could be, that Donnie Moore could be a cautionary tale. Had the Diamondbacks not recovered, and not won the 2001 World Series, maybe the concern was that BK Kim would "think about doing bad things to himself," and with the benefit of being able to learn from Donnie Moore, that would have been a great chance to teach people, "It IS still a GAME, at the end of the day. Don't let it define your life, or you as a person."
One thing that always got me about the Bill Buckner situation. Is I have heard all my life since that game people saying Bill Buckner sucked and cost Boston the championship so on. I always looked at those people and laughed because if it wasnt for Buckner driving in over 100 RBI that year in their lineup. They probably wouldnt have been in the playoffs to begin with. There was no wild card in those days and young fans dont get that. You had to win your division or your season was over at seasons end. Buckner hit well all year for Boston. He was a big part of why that team won their division and was in the playoffs to begin with. Another thing that I always think of was Bob Stanley did not have his good stuff that night. If Stanley was pitching well and hadnt threw a wild pitch right before that play that made Buckner the scape goat. Then Bucker would have never been put in that situation. One could easily blame Stanley just as much as he allowed the runners to get into scoring position to begin with. As for the Donnie Moore situation. It was very sad. Many in the media and everything in those days blamed Moore for the Angels not making the world series. I remember sports writers in those days filled newspapers nation wide with headlines that Donnie Moore crumbled under pressure so on. I think all that negativity pushed Donnie Moore deeper into alcohalism and depression. What those sportswriters and ungrateful fans didnt think about was that the then California Angels would have never been in the playoffs to begin with at all if not for having Donnie Moore being one of the best closers in the game and saving a ton of games for them that year. Its sad that so many people never remember how great a player was for their team to help that team get to the position they were in to even have a chance to play in the playoffs. This was a great video. I enjoyed it!
Thanks for sharing a first-hand perspective on the way these players and controversial plays were seen by fans and the media. Admittedly, I wasn't there, so I appreciate your enthusiasm and knowledge!
If memory serves, Buckner had a really hot streak hitting in September, which helped Boston win eleven in a row and sealed the AL East title for them. So yeah, assuming I'm correct, he was very instrumental in their win. And one other thing you didn't mention was the speed of Mookie Wilson. Even if Buckner fields that ball cleanly, I'm not at all convinced that he would have beaten Wilson to first base. If you haven't seen it, ESPN did a series of shoes called "The Top Five Reasons You Can't Blame..." The first one they did was on Buckner, and they absolutely nailed it. It may still be on RUclips, and it's definitely worth a watch.
You did a great job handling a sensitive subject. The Angels had the bases loaded and one out in extra innings and failed to get the run in. The story about Moore, and to a lesser extent, Buckner, is that our losses are so exquisitely painful. Some players learn to cope and even overcome. Others are never the same again. There is an ironic piece of baseball trivia locked in the 1986 post-season. If Buckner's play doesn't happen, we would likely still be talking about Leon Durham, whose error in the 1984 NLCS, cost the Cubs a chance to go to the Series. But like Mookie Wilson would say, "It's just a game, it isn't life." If only that were true.
@@Hatbilly By the way, it may not be your personal favorite subject, but your navigation through this video may be a key to future success. I am actually a Medieval Historian, but an article I wrote on the Psychological Profile of Genghis Khan launched my readership to a new level. I brought in a friend of mine, a clinical psychologist, to help put the missing pieces together and it was so interesting! There is no end to the subjects in baseball with whom you could do this. Rube Waddell - a turn of the century pitcher who would dart off the mound and chase firetrucks. Ty Cobb - Compare his autobiography with what others wrote about him, and add the fact that his mother shot his father to death only weeks before he could prove himself on a diamond. Christy Mathewson - perhaps tragically, Mathewson was a victim of WWI poison gas training. More recently, you could discuss the cases of Rod Scurry and Eric Show.
@ROBERT BLUESTEIN I appreciate the advice. I enjoy covering these tragic players. I try to keep the ratio 1:1 between them and more lighthearted characters. In the past I've done Sammy Stewart, Eric Show, and Darrell Porter.
By the logic that Moore lost game 5 for them, he also singlehandedly won the game that clinched the pennant just a week or so prior. I used some footage from that game, but failed to mention how brilliant he pitched that day.
I covered him in my "70s Contact Nerds" video. The spot on him was between 2 and 3 minutes, not sure if I could make a full length video on him, but am willing to try.
Is there anyone here besides me who is not surprised that Reggie Jackson would 1 . Let everyone know that Mr Moore asked him for a loan to pay his mortgage 2.. choose not to help his friend when he was at the lowest point in his life. ?
I don't get tired of your artful and sensitive treatment of difficult topics nor do I get tired of making the same(essentially) comment after each video; that's a really great perspective and treatment of what is a scenario that hits close to him. Alcoholism and abuse are ugly, but by relaying Moore's own childhood pain, you help to highlight that by and large, these are learned behaviors and coping skills for incomplete social abilitites that he and alcoholics everywhere are trying to lean on. His wife knew that part of the story and likely had some similar things in her own past to connect and stay with Moore despite the abuse.
Glad you agree that looking at these stories with a more sympathetic modern point of view gives them life. This is my favorite kind of story to tell, but I try not to make the channel a one trick pony. Thanks for reliably interacting with my videos! It's most definitely appreciated.
Another great video. Keep up the good work. A "Fanatic is defined as "a person marked by anenthusiasm, as for a cause." Someone must be blamed for the loss!! Umpire Don Denkinger, Fan Stave Bartman, Players Bill Buckner and Donnie Moore and many others. Every pitch, swing and throw has an effect on the outcome. It really is rather disgusting, the way some fans react to their team losing.
I appreciate it, Doug! Thanks for adding this. Fanatics are definitely the type of fan this issue stemmed from. Lots of those in baseball, for better or worse!
Speaking of the 1986 Boston Red Sox, Oil Can Boyd is the kind of character that you seem to enjoy doing videos on, and I don't think I've seen any other RUclipsr do one.
Great video on the career of Donnie Moore. From the mountaintops to the pitfalls. I don't know what it's like in other cultural societies when it comes to sports worship, but in the west it feels like a huge contingent of folks will think in a binary manner when it comes to handing out praise, or soliciting blame. Watching this reminded me of Gary Anderson the kicker for the Minnesota Vikings in 1998 or Scott Norwood in 1990 for the Buffalo Bills. Both guys missed a key kick in the playoffs, and are remembered for those moments only. In addition each team's other players contributing to a big loss never got the focus. It's always one guy, because I guess that's just easier to fathom for the peanut gallery. I think Bill Buckner was right in essentially laughing off his blunder. It sucks, but it happens. It's not like he owes those people anything anyway. Us westerners get way too nutty about sports sometimes.
I appreciate it! Good example. In football, the kicker position lives and dies by those high leverage situations. In baseball, it seems nearly every position is susceptible to that kind of scrutiny in one way or another. Just the design of the game itself, I suppose. Another great point about the phenomenon of sports in general in western culture.
Look at the pitch Henderson hit for a homer. That was a good pitch and Henderson went down and got it. Moore passed about 6 weeks after I graduated from high school and I remember believing Henderson's homerun had something to do with it. After nearly 34 years I reached a conclusion, Moore used baseball as his excuse for those horrible actions. Moore was an abuser. Once again, you did a wonderful job at presenting a lesser known baseball story.
Another provocative and thought provoking gem. You create this content like a starting pitcher going strong into the eighth inning with a good 30 pitches left in him. I can only imagine the toll this must have had on his children. What a stark reminder that it is so incredibly important to take care of our mental health and trauma not only for ourselves but our loved ones as well. My brother suffers from serious mental illness and the way you approach the subject gives me hope that there really are people out there who have a competent and empathetic understanding of it. I don't mean to talk out of turn but I can sense you have some intimate knowledge on the subject. I love baseball. And I love the way you delve into topics that should be at the forefront. Cheers from New England. Looking forward to the next video🍻
I'm glad you agree that viewing these stories through a more sympathetic modern view gives them life. And thanks for reliably interacting with my videos! I'm an open book. I'm currently dealing with some mental health stuff, that I believe stem from some concussions I suffered as a high school football player. Sports are bittersweet for me, so I try to channel those emotions in this space. Which leads me to a little spoiler, the next video is on the history of the batting helmet, and players whose stories contributed to safety of future players. 🧠
@@Hatbilly just guessing … are they more prone to using painkillers? As a young Tiger’s fan in the 1970s and early 80s, I was SO pissed at McLain because he should have been pitching for us until 1980 or so. But then I read about all the cortisone etc. He’s still a jerk, but pitiable.
I remember when Donnie gave up that home run. Al Michaels was like, "And the Angels were one strike away from turning this place into Fantasyland". And then a few years later, he was gone. When news reported his death, they said he was best known as the loser of game 5 of the ALCS. Sad.
Back in the '80s there was a nationally syndicated newspaper columnist named Mike Royko based in Chicago. Every year in October he'd write a column predicting the baseball playoff winners, based on which team had the fewest ex-Cubs. He was usually right.
Thank you for pointing out the struggles and challenges of time gone by. Nostalgia is not always looking through rose colored glasses. Those who yearn and reminisce about the good old days, I’m not quite sure. I prefer our kinder and more knowledgeable world of today.
History is there for us to learn from our mistakes. I sincerely hope the baseball community, and the world as a whole continues to trend in a good direction.
Sorry but our world today is not kinder my friend..Yes we live in the knowledge and information age..But as unknowledgeble as we were about certain things and many prejudices those were kinder times as opposed to today..
Another strong piece. So sad.
I was born in Seattle in 1973, where I grew up. Japanese-American and male. When a closer blows a save, sure I see them dejected, but Donnie Moore giving up this home run, Donnie looked DEVASTATED, to another level. Maybe, it's watching this many times, in hindsight, after his personal tragedy, that brings light to it. Compare in the 2001 World Series, when BK Kim blew 2 games. It was more "frustration and disgust in himself," that I saw. Donnie Moore looked downright sad and defeated, after that Hendu home run.
I was at game 5 in Anaheim. My Army buddy from Lowell, Mass came to Anaheim where I lived to see me and my wife and we were going to the game. The field was surrounded by security and police ready for us to fly on the field and celebrate. Everyone was going crazy, including me. Then the pitch. The whole stadium was deflated. My buddy Marty was happy, him being from Mass.The rest is history.
I just watched the Dodgers win game one of the WS with Freddie Freeman hitting a grand slam. Later I thought of the Yankees pitcher who gave up the pitch, Cortes, and it brought back memories and here I am. It reminded me of the Angel game, hopefully with a different outcome.
After BK Kim blew his second 2001 World Series game, one writer asked Bill Bremley, "Does Kim know the Donnie Moore story?" Bremley disgustedly said, "No. And, I don't think that he needs to." Back in 2001, I agreed with his disgust. In hindsight, maybe the question wasn't so dumb after all. It could be, that Donnie Moore could be a cautionary tale. Had the Diamondbacks not recovered, and not won the 2001 World Series, maybe the concern was that BK Kim would "think about doing bad things to himself," and with the benefit of being able to learn from Donnie Moore, that would have been a great chance to teach people, "It IS still a GAME, at the end of the day. Don't let it define your life, or you as a person."
One thing that always got me about the Bill Buckner situation. Is I have heard all my life since that game people saying Bill Buckner sucked and cost Boston the championship so on. I always looked at those people and laughed because if it wasnt for Buckner driving in over 100 RBI that year in their lineup. They probably wouldnt have been in the playoffs to begin with. There was no wild card in those days and young fans dont get that. You had to win your division or your season was over at seasons end. Buckner hit well all year for Boston. He was a big part of why that team won their division and was in the playoffs to begin with. Another thing that I always think of was Bob Stanley did not have his good stuff that night. If Stanley was pitching well and hadnt threw a wild pitch right before that play that made Buckner the scape goat. Then Bucker would have never been put in that situation. One could easily blame Stanley just as much as he allowed the runners to get into scoring position to begin with. As for the Donnie Moore situation. It was very sad. Many in the media and everything in those days blamed Moore for the Angels not making the world series. I remember sports writers in those days filled newspapers nation wide with headlines that Donnie Moore crumbled under pressure so on. I think all that negativity pushed Donnie Moore deeper into alcohalism and depression. What those sportswriters and ungrateful fans didnt think about was that the then California Angels would have never been in the playoffs to begin with at all if not for having Donnie Moore being one of the best closers in the game and saving a ton of games for them that year. Its sad that so many people never remember how great a player was for their team to help that team get to the position they were in to even have a chance to play in the playoffs. This was a great video. I enjoyed it!
Thanks for sharing a first-hand perspective on the way these players and controversial plays were seen by fans and the media. Admittedly, I wasn't there, so I appreciate your enthusiasm and knowledge!
If memory serves, Buckner had a really hot streak hitting in September, which helped Boston win eleven in a row and sealed the AL East title for them. So yeah, assuming I'm correct, he was very instrumental in their win.
And one other thing you didn't mention was the speed of Mookie Wilson. Even if Buckner fields that ball cleanly, I'm not at all convinced that he would have beaten Wilson to first base.
If you haven't seen it, ESPN did a series of shoes called "The Top Five Reasons You Can't Blame..." The first one they did was on Buckner, and they absolutely nailed it. It may still be on RUclips, and it's definitely worth a watch.
I remember Donnie when he pitched for the Braves. Tragic
You did a great job handling a sensitive subject. The Angels had the bases loaded and one out in extra innings and failed to get the run in. The story about Moore, and to a lesser extent, Buckner, is that our losses are so exquisitely painful.
Some players learn to cope and even overcome. Others are never the same again. There is an ironic piece of baseball trivia locked in the 1986 post-season. If Buckner's play doesn't happen, we would likely still be talking about Leon Durham, whose error in the 1984 NLCS, cost the Cubs a chance to go to the Series.
But like Mookie Wilson would say, "It's just a game, it isn't life." If only that were true.
I appreciate it! That's a fact I definitely wish I'd tied in, in retrospect. Thank for including it here!
@@Hatbilly By the way, it may not be your personal favorite subject, but your navigation through this video may be a key to future success. I am actually a Medieval Historian, but an article I wrote on the Psychological Profile of Genghis Khan launched my readership to a new level. I brought in a friend of mine, a clinical psychologist, to help put the missing pieces together and it was so interesting! There is no end to the subjects in baseball with whom you could do this.
Rube Waddell - a turn of the century pitcher who would dart off the mound and chase firetrucks.
Ty Cobb - Compare his autobiography with what others wrote about him, and add the fact that his mother shot his father to death only weeks before he could prove himself on a diamond.
Christy Mathewson - perhaps tragically, Mathewson was a victim of WWI poison gas training.
More recently, you could discuss the cases of Rod Scurry and Eric Show.
@ROBERT BLUESTEIN I appreciate the advice. I enjoy covering these tragic players. I try to keep the ratio 1:1 between them and more lighthearted characters. In the past I've done Sammy Stewart, Eric Show, and Darrell Porter.
An entire fanbase taking out their anger on a single individual is wrong whether or not that person is to blame for a big loss. Thats how i see it
By the logic that Moore lost game 5 for them, he also singlehandedly won the game that clinched the pennant just a week or so prior. I used some footage from that game, but failed to mention how brilliant he pitched that day.
VERY good video!
I appreciate it! 😁
Really nice video. Ever thought about doing one on Lyman Bostock?
I covered him in my "70s Contact Nerds" video. The spot on him was between 2 and 3 minutes, not sure if I could make a full length video on him, but am willing to try.
Is there anyone here besides me who is not surprised that Reggie Jackson would
1 . Let everyone know that Mr Moore asked him for a loan to pay his mortgage
2.. choose not to help his friend when he was at the lowest point in his life. ?
Love all your videos man
I really appreciate it! 😁
The Angels had a shot to win in the bottom of the ninth. They had the bases loaded and only managed one run.
What a story! Great vid Hatbilly
I appreciate it, Cam! Keep killin' it out there.
I don't get tired of your artful and sensitive treatment of difficult topics nor do I get tired of making the same(essentially) comment after each video; that's a really great perspective and treatment of what is a scenario that hits close to him. Alcoholism and abuse are ugly, but by relaying Moore's own childhood pain, you help to highlight that by and large, these are learned behaviors and coping skills for incomplete social abilitites that he and alcoholics everywhere are trying to lean on. His wife knew that part of the story and likely had some similar things in her own past to connect and stay with Moore despite the abuse.
Glad you agree that looking at these stories with a more sympathetic modern point of view gives them life. This is my favorite kind of story to tell, but I try not to make the channel a one trick pony. Thanks for reliably interacting with my videos! It's most definitely appreciated.
Awesome thanks
You're welcome! 😁
Another great video. Keep up the good work.
A "Fanatic is defined as "a person marked by anenthusiasm, as for a cause." Someone must be blamed for the loss!! Umpire Don Denkinger, Fan Stave Bartman, Players Bill Buckner and Donnie Moore and many others. Every pitch, swing and throw has an effect on the outcome. It really is rather disgusting, the way some fans react to their team losing.
I appreciate it, Doug! Thanks for adding this. Fanatics are definitely the type of fan this issue stemmed from. Lots of those in baseball, for better or worse!
Speaking of the 1986 Boston Red Sox, Oil Can Boyd is the kind of character that you seem to enjoy doing videos on, and I don't think I've seen any other RUclipsr do one.
He's on my list! Thank you, Bigdog!
Great video on the career of Donnie Moore. From the mountaintops to the pitfalls. I don't know what it's like in other cultural societies when it comes to sports worship, but in the west it feels like a huge contingent of folks will think in a binary manner when it comes to handing out praise, or soliciting blame. Watching this reminded me of Gary Anderson the kicker for the Minnesota Vikings in 1998 or Scott Norwood in 1990 for the Buffalo Bills. Both guys missed a key kick in the playoffs, and are remembered for those moments only. In addition each team's other players contributing to a big loss never got the focus. It's always one guy, because I guess that's just easier to fathom for the peanut gallery. I think Bill Buckner was right in essentially laughing off his blunder. It sucks, but it happens. It's not like he owes those people anything anyway. Us westerners get way too nutty about sports sometimes.
I appreciate it! Good example. In football, the kicker position lives and dies by those high leverage situations. In baseball, it seems nearly every position is susceptible to that kind of scrutiny in one way or another. Just the design of the game itself, I suppose. Another great point about the phenomenon of sports in general in western culture.
Look at the pitch Henderson hit for a homer. That was a good pitch and Henderson went down and got it.
Moore passed about 6 weeks after I graduated from high school and I remember believing Henderson's homerun had something to do with it. After nearly 34 years I reached a conclusion, Moore used baseball as his excuse for those horrible actions. Moore was an abuser.
Once again, you did a wonderful job at presenting a lesser known baseball story.
I appreciate it, Michael! Once all the details about his personal life came out, it definitely swayed a lot of opinion.
Another provocative and thought provoking gem.
You create this content like a starting pitcher going strong into the eighth inning with a good 30 pitches left in him.
I can only imagine the toll this must have had on his children.
What a stark reminder that it is so incredibly important to take care of our mental health and trauma not only for ourselves but our loved ones as well.
My brother suffers from serious mental illness and the way you approach the subject gives me hope that there really are people out there who have a competent and empathetic understanding of it.
I don't mean to talk out of turn but I can sense you have some intimate knowledge on the subject.
I love baseball. And I love the way you delve into topics that should be at the forefront.
Cheers from New England.
Looking forward to the next video🍻
I'm glad you agree that viewing these stories through a more sympathetic modern view gives them life. And thanks for reliably interacting with my videos!
I'm an open book. I'm currently dealing with some mental health stuff, that I believe stem from some concussions I suffered as a high school football player. Sports are bittersweet for me, so I try to channel those emotions in this space. Which leads me to a little spoiler, the next video is on the history of the batting helmet, and players whose stories contributed to safety of future players. 🧠
If you’re looking for another topic:Denny McLain. Last 30-game winner, jailbird, and born on Cy Young’s birthday. From hero to zero.
Thank you, I'll add him to the list! It seems pitchers are just a little more prone to the offlield issues, not sure why.
@@Hatbilly just guessing … are they more prone to using painkillers? As a young Tiger’s fan in the 1970s and early 80s, I was SO pissed at McLain because he should have been pitching for us until 1980 or so. But then I read about all the cortisone etc. He’s still a jerk, but pitiable.
You're probably hitting the nail on the head. Back in the day, they were mixing in drugs off the street, which, I'd say, has to be less common now.
Donnie was a monster who shot his wife in front of their kids. Yes, that HR is involved, but at the end of the day it comes down to that fact.
In my book true fans of the team/game aren't fickle. Shit happens but it's still the greatest game in the world.
Agreed. The diehards are what make the game what it is in the first place.
I remember when Donnie gave up that home run. Al Michaels was like, "And the Angels were one strike away from turning this place into Fantasyland". And then a few years later, he was gone. When news reported his death, they said he was best known as the loser of game 5 of the ALCS. Sad.
Thanks for the firsthand account of how the media handled this. Such a shame.
painful and beautiful
Agreed. Even the greatest sport on earth has its unfortunate quirks.
Weird that both guys previously played for the Cubs.
Back in the '80s there was a nationally syndicated newspaper columnist named Mike Royko based in Chicago. Every year in October he'd write a column predicting the baseball playoff winners, based on which team had the fewest ex-Cubs. He was usually right.
I'm surprised the connection to that franchise didn't become a more newsworthy for both players.
Gets away, gets away!!! In comes Mitchell, in comes Mitchell!!! Tie game, tie game!!!
Donnie didn't deserve his fate. I hope he's found peace in the skies.
Agreed. Very unfortunate all around.
@@Hatbilly I wonder if that one home run was like the final straw. Poor fella...
Found Peace? He shot his wife several times and killed himself Infront of his children.
If Anyone else should shoulder some of the blame its Gene Mauch and Gary Lucas