We're going to call theft, "lost"! That's an interesting concept coming from "law enforcement". The only thing "lost", was the credibility and reputation of the fbi.
Personally, I think the FBI agents who were involved in the case should have to pay out of pocket rather than force us to pay for them. Because we all know when the FBI agreed to pay, they don't mean they're going to pay. They mean they're going to use our tax dollars.
Plus, there should be a "permanent record" 🤭where it is noted that they were part of a team where valuables went missing. 💸They passed a full background check to be an agent. When valuables are gone, they, personally, aren't liable, so there should be a way to mark them. 🎯
Likely the problem is they don't know who could have possibly taken there was probably so many people that had access to it. The bigger thing is they should change how they're doing stuff so it's not so easy for stuff just to go missing.
@@TainterRacing each box was locked and divided, but of course the "Policy" probably had them dump it in a pile and go down a list , without a camera or witnesses. WEIRD.
From the start of the video, I kept thinking, "What if it's Great-Grandma's engagement and wedding ring set?" My grandma's wedding ring set went missing 40 years after she died at age 40, and we couldn't find my Mom's wedding ring set when she died 4 months ago. But it's not the monetary value that's heartbreaking. It's our family history, and the people who took them don't care about our family. How many of the bank's customers were violated in that way? How many were people who were counting on those gold and silver coins for retirement? Everything those thieving FBI agents took is stolen property. They're supposed to protect us, but they violated all of us, because we know they would rather harm people than protect us.
Then they have to reimburse you. So the question becomes: if some quadrillionaire wanted to buy that thing, what price would be the point where you would be willing to actually agree? - What you bought it for? Absolutely not, it has accrued value. - Market price (for materials, or whatever some art piece would be approximated to be sold for)? Obviously not, or it would not have been in a security box in the first place - since you would have sold it already. - Twice the market price? Maybe, depends on your attachment to it and what it gets estimated for. - ten times what you would judge its market price to be? maybe, at this point only invaluable or sentimental items remains, really. People who just stored run-of-the-mill collectibles will probably be satisfied with this and buy some new collectible instead. - the price you would buy it for yourself at this point? Obviously not, since you would buy it at that price, meaning you would not sell it. - a blank check? ok, now most people will have said ok, as they could write "999 quadrillions" on it. But some people still have sentimental objects they value more than any money, and some objects are truly invaluable. No, I think the only thing the fbi can do for those people who still haven't accepted any of the above, is to give them each their own copy of the nation to rule as tyrants - physics be damned. Anything else would be unacceptable reimbursement. Technically they should do more, but at least this is the _minimum_ they should do.
I worked at a bank for many years. We had to drill open unpaid boxes several times per year. Our procedures were VERY strict when recording the contents and securing them. The FBI was criminal in their handling of this mess. Charges should be filed for theft and corruption.
@davidh9638 the banks purposefully destroy the boxes so they cant be used again. It also shows conclusively the boxes have been opened. There are many times investigators will claim they didnt search or replaced items. By destroying the box it leaves and evidence trail of the search and makes it impossible to simply claim they resecured the items.
😂 yeah right. My mom had a couple of hers “mistakenly” drilled by her bank about 15 years ago. They auctioned off some contents, ‘lost’ a special misprint coin, and then tried to only compensate her by refunding the box fees she gad paid ahead for the better part of a decade.
Pretty good racket when you can steal from law abiding citizens, keep the "lost" items, then use someone else's money to compensate the victims. Corruption in its purest form.
@@hellshade2 you're right. But for some reason hundreds of millions of people are afraid of thousands of people? That's why our founding fathers said it was important to water the tree of Liberty on a regular basis
Should make the FBI agents involved in the "lost" inventory personally liable for the compensation amount TIMES TEN!! If the property was worth $10,000, then make a judgment for $100,000. If they can't personally pay, take it directly out of their pensions. Need to investigate and IRS audit every FBI agent involved to hold then accountable.
ten? Far too little. That only works for stuff deriving value from its materials or as a collectible that has equivalent things circulating auctions at times. Sentimental stuff? Or one-of-a-kind collectibles? ten times is nowhere near enough (also, ten times what? how do you even estimate the market price to multiply?)
I was a federally bonded courier at one time and I can’t begin to understand what happened to two party integrity during documented and signed inventory? After that, every time custody changes hands there is a new signature for the sealed contents. When I did this for a living you stick by the numbers and procedures so you don’t get left holding a bag of nothing. Someone needs to start an investigation and subpoena the records of chain of custody.
I'm sure the camera covering that part of the evidence room would magically "malfunction" or a data storage "glitch" would delete the footage if it was ever looked into.
In no way does this punish the FBI, nor does it incentivize them not to steal. Since it's not their money and getting paid back its taxpayer money as well as no one getting in trouble or fired
And not just that! There are no innocent bystanders. I don't really believe that the entire FBI is corrupt, yet if those involved are not held personally accountable, the entire organization is guilty.
The IJ should require they prosecute all the agents who took the stuff under 18USC242 as felon criminals. They drilled the boxes to open them. I don’t care if they drop the charge to misdemeanors for some, but all should be charged.
It is wrong that none at the FBI are being prosecuted. To do what they claimed they were doing, they would need to maintain the boxes intact with their contents, otherwise they could never prove any specific person did anything if their investigation took them in that direction to focus on some subset of the box owners. There’s no legitimate reason why the process would NOT be 1) Open box 2) inventory contents 3) put contents back and lock the box 4) Put box into an evidence room with an identifying tag and copy of the inventory report. Skipping 3 and 4 means theft was the purpose of the task, without doing those they’d never be able to prove a crime against anybody since they screwed up chain of custody.
Don't forget the security cameras, mandatory body-cams, rfid-tags for all items/boxes that log what was put in or taken out, when, and by who (needed credentials to open the thing in the first place), and so on.
The amount of illegal stuff the FBI did in this case is insane. That they face basically no consequence for the theft. And no one's going to go to jail over it either.
@@paulkovalcik9971 trust is earned, my local government has been delivering incredible results so I know everything is on the up and up. Even with slim margins where a single vote or two would gum up the works. Reasonably good government is possible.
Yes. Right here is where an organization will recognize a problem and they will work at improving their standards of procedures that are to be done to make sure something like this doesn't happen again. Even the US military does it for battles. Whether they lose or win there are always observers watching and taking notes so they can identify weaknesses to correct.
The government should always be required to pay the legal bills of anyone suing them who prevailed in court. That way they can't use their unlimited budget to deny justice to common people.
Every FBI agent involved with this should be investigated and the chain of custody for the property should be investigated and disclosed those involved should be prosecuted.
When you break the law, it's the clink for you. When they break the law (the original box opening unrelated to the search), then "lose " the valuable items it's oops, we're sorry.
Yet the peoples in the gov't seem to not care what we think. It's time to put a little reality in justice. No court seems to hold any gov't crook to account so it falls to the people.
I knew a retired sheriff's deputy from a major US city. He told me that when they confiscated a LEGAL firearm thats someone in the SD wanted when the owner came back to reclaim it they told that person that "it had just been disposed of".
every single government employee associated with this raid with the exception of the judge who signed the warrant should be forced to explain to a jury why they don't belong in prison
That's a given. But we have no proof since there was no accountability procedures in place control who has access to seized items. Likely the problem goes up into the higher ups.
Not certain. Also possible it is an agency-level operation to re-budget the national budget (from wherever money state gives when it loses in court -> fbi's dark budget that has no transparency and can be used on secret stuff).
If they were dishonest enough to "lose" peoples things, who would think they were honest in the inventory process? Also, what is the value of the things lost in the box? Oh, we lost 63 gold coins, we'll give you the value of 63 ounces of gold but not the value of 63 historic collectors coins because while $160K is a chunk of change for 63 ounces of gold, a single collectors coin could be worth that alone or more...
This, or give him the money amount formulated on a day when gold is set at a historic low. I would demand gold coins, same minting as were "lost" if they were collectible and gaining value reliably. Or their greatest value in the time frame they had them. I think punitive damages are warranted here too.
Also, even if the coin owner was compensated the actual value of the stolen coins, the cash will not appreciate in value, while the stolen coins will continue to do so.
@@terramarini6880 Greatest value they had in that timeframe, is far too little. If that was enough compensation, then that owner would not have had them in the security box in the first place - they would have sold them for that value.
Hold the FBI accountable is a loose term. What would be more accurate is that taxpayers are going to pay millions of dollars for things the FBI stole. True accountability would be prison terms.
Sooo. If you are ever accused of a crime prepare to have your things stolen or destroyed by the cops. They now have the right under asset forfeiture regardless of your guilt.
While I'm angry too, some of what the FBI does is very important. For example, it has arrested people running human trafficking rings and rescued victims of those rings. Many children among the victims. We need better and more surgical solutions.
No no. Take out of their budget to make the people whole, then cut their budget in half, and make it illegal for anyone to get around the budget cut by selling things cheaper, or gifting them stuff for free, and have an independent, citizen controlled, group audit and control the FBI Finances, and have the FBI have to get approval from them for EVERY single bit of purchase they want to do from now on.
The level of government corruption is completely off the wall. The pensions and benefits for those involved should be seized. People should be going to jail but that is as likely as flying pigs and hell freezing over.
Hmm. The world's foremost investigative organization "lost" valuables. Have they conducted an investigation to determine what happened, and who was responsible? Someone committed grand theft. Maybe they should perform a midnight raid on a few agents' houses, with SWAT teams.
I agree, except it should be a search of the homes, vacation homes, rented storage spaces, safety deposit boxes of every agent and supervisor involved and all their banking records since the time the items were seized and the present.
@@dbeekman9738 That will never come up with anything. Those people are professionals who knows and has the capabilities to make fake identities and setup safe-houses or stashes.
To make it fairer the judge should have penalized the FBI treble damages and given the extra money to Institute For Justice for future operating expenses.
As a retired LEO, im sickened by the aggressive seizure policy of the feds. The entire civil asset forfeiture needs to be scrapped. Theres no reason i should have any issue traveling with whatever amount of money i want. The law states innocent until proven guilty. This stupid law assumes guilt ahead of time even though the officer knows good and well there is no crime attached to the siezure while hes processing it. Its a source of income for feds and local law enforcement and its straight up criminal. Its theft.
It's not there, they already sold it to convert it to cash. You would need a full forensic audit of their financials to find that they couldn't actually afford that 80" TV on their salary and still pay their other bills. Best of luck with that.
search the homes and safe deposit boxes of the agents involved, and you'll find most of the "missing" property. go through their financial records and history, too.
The bigger problem is (with just the 63 gold coins) is that they may have been extremely "rare" coins and paying the price of gold value may not make the "victim" whole! Peace...
I absolutely don’t understand how the FBI can simply ignore a judge’s order with complete impunity. If I were to do that, they’d rain hell down on me. So how does this happen? Do the feds get any consequences for that?
They are reimbursing them with our tax dollars. I don't agree with this. I have not stolen anything, so why do I have to be punished and pay them back?
The government should not be allowed to have an endless supply of money to fight lawsuits against them. They should only be allowed to use what is reasonable. That’s is 1 massive tax burden on the Americans
Where's the body cam video of the boxes being opened? I wouldn't trust a group of gov't workers to open up boxes of loot unsupervised and undocumented. Every casino has camera's in the counting room for a reason.
I remember when my husband died and he had a safety deposit box and I had to get a a lawyer. The lawyer asked me if I want to pay cash or pay in coins. I told him I would pay him cash but then when I got the coins back, some coins are missing and he said I took stone coins for payment. And I never even seen them. I was a widow with one year-old twins, and that’s how that lawyer treated me. Those coins were their father’s grandfathers. That lawyer took their inheritance.
There is a thing called chain of custody. Assuming that the agents that performed the inventory did not swipe items from the boxes (if that was the case, they would not appear in the inventory). At some point the contents are moved from the bank to the FBI storage and someone has to sign that they received the 'evidence'. At that point the original agents are no longer responsible for the items. That chain of custody is digitized a very long time ago, so it isn't that hard to find out who opened the specific storage boxes that contained these items. The warehouse clerk needs to register who takes what from the vault, they also make a note when it is returned. It shouldn't be that hard to find out who stole these items!
Why don't we start a public campaign to demand the head of the lead FBI Agent In Charge? This doesn't happen under strong, ethical leadership. But, if there is no consequence, it will ensure that something similar happens in the future. We might be unable to pin a crime on any of the actors, but proving incompetence should be easy enough.
I wonder, why hasn’t this been taken before Congress? It should’ve been brought to light a long time ago. This is scary in that it could happen to anyone. The FBI disregarded a federal judge and forfeited a bunch of valuables and it almost went unnoticed.
Each agent involved should be audited by a nonpartisan forensic accountant and subjected to multiple lie detection procedures. These people signed up to be arbiters of the law and should be held to a higher standard.
The f.b.i. did not "lose" these items. Some of them, obviously, stole the items.
Or the needed untracable funds to pay for OPERATIONS that they did not want tracked. Like i dunno taking shots at someone one a golf course.
Some crooked Feds. Imagine that!
Started as a corrupt agency never stopped
So I'm not the only one that can read between the lines.
@@tylermacdermott5467 Everyone can read between the lines. I'm not really sure the original comment was actually necessary.
The taxpayers should not be paying for this. The individuals who authorized it should pay out of pocket. The contents were stolen, not lost
The government is the thief.
So you don't want the people to ever be compensated?
@@embalmed yeah, of course, but by the personal fortunes of those individuals involved.
@@mobilemcsmarty1466 They'd never pay
@@embalmed i see reading is not your strong point
I bet not a single agent was even remotely investigated.
I'm sure they thoroughly investigated themselves.
Sure they were... by themselves 🙈
And they found no wrongdoing! 😊
'We do this all the time...'
Yeah, they all high fived each other and with air quotes "the stuff was lost" wink wink.
I didn't realize FBI was an acronym for "Fumbling Basic Inventories"
😆🤣😆🤣
Fraudsters Burglarizing Innocents
Yeah, I always thought it was Forever Bothering Italians
FBI employees should be held accountable for theft or embezzlement.
Why would they do that when they can just use our tax dollars.
Absolutely, they stole
Theft AND embezzlement.
Oh, how passe!
Who said the "lost" items weren't "adopted" by the FBI itself rather than individuals?
We're going to call theft, "lost"! That's an interesting concept coming from "law enforcement". The only thing "lost", was the credibility and reputation of the fbi.
Personally, I think the FBI agents who were involved in the case should have to pay out of pocket rather than force us to pay for them. Because we all know when the FBI agreed to pay, they don't mean they're going to pay. They mean they're going to use our tax dollars.
At bare minimum, do a detailed audit of their finances, including a search of any safe deposit boxes they may own.
Plus, there should be a "permanent record" 🤭where it is noted that they were part of a team where valuables went missing. 💸They passed a full background check to be an agent. When valuables are gone, they, personally, aren't liable, so there should be a way to mark them. 🎯
Likely the problem is they don't know who could have possibly taken there was probably so many people that had access to it. The bigger thing is they should change how they're doing stuff so it's not so easy for stuff just to go missing.
@@TainterRacing each box was locked and divided, but of course the "Policy" probably had them dump it in a pile and go down a list , without a camera or witnesses. WEIRD.
Not agents……leaders
From the start of the video, I kept thinking, "What if it's Great-Grandma's engagement and wedding ring set?" My grandma's wedding ring set went missing 40 years after she died at age 40, and we couldn't find my Mom's wedding ring set when she died 4 months ago. But it's not the monetary value that's heartbreaking. It's our family history, and the people who took them don't care about our family. How many of the bank's customers were violated in that way? How many were people who were counting on those gold and silver coins for retirement? Everything those thieving FBI agents took is stolen property. They're supposed to protect us, but they violated all of us, because we know they would rather harm people than protect us.
Then they have to reimburse you. So the question becomes: if some quadrillionaire wanted to buy that thing, what price would be the point where you would be willing to actually agree?
- What you bought it for? Absolutely not, it has accrued value.
- Market price (for materials, or whatever some art piece would be approximated to be sold for)? Obviously not, or it would not have been in a security box in the first place - since you would have sold it already.
- Twice the market price? Maybe, depends on your attachment to it and what it gets estimated for.
- ten times what you would judge its market price to be? maybe, at this point only invaluable or sentimental items remains, really. People who just stored run-of-the-mill collectibles will probably be satisfied with this and buy some new collectible instead.
- the price you would buy it for yourself at this point? Obviously not, since you would buy it at that price, meaning you would not sell it.
- a blank check? ok, now most people will have said ok, as they could write "999 quadrillions" on it. But some people still have sentimental objects they value more than any money, and some objects are truly invaluable.
No, I think the only thing the fbi can do for those people who still haven't accepted any of the above, is to give them each their own copy of the nation to rule as tyrants - physics be damned. Anything else would be unacceptable reimbursement. Technically they should do more, but at least this is the _minimum_ they should do.
The Agents should be investigated for the Thefts by the D.O.J. and prosecuted.
Yup, cause it would be the AGENTS that stole it. No other suspects.
Yeah, like that's ever going to happen.
That would only work if the higher ups at the D.O.J. had no political ambitions. For whatever thing they would love to do if elected or appointed.
Bless your heart.
The so called doj is the main problem.
Another reason the American public has lost confidence in and respect for the FBI and DoJ.
I worked at a bank for many years. We had to drill open unpaid boxes several times per year. Our procedures were VERY strict when recording the contents and securing them. The FBI was criminal in their handling of this mess. Charges should be filed for theft and corruption.
lockpickinglawyer could open them without damage.
@davidh9638 the banks purposefully destroy the boxes so they cant be used again. It also shows conclusively the boxes have been opened. There are many times investigators will claim they didnt search or replaced items. By destroying the box it leaves and evidence trail of the search and makes it impossible to simply claim they resecured the items.
@@davidh9638 Nothing one, two feels set, three... counter-rotation...
😂 yeah right. My mom had a couple of hers “mistakenly” drilled by her bank about 15 years ago. They auctioned off some contents, ‘lost’ a special misprint coin, and then tried to only compensate her by refunding the box fees she gad paid ahead for the better part of a decade.
If only there was some kind of law enforcement agency to investigate something like this. 😅
Last time I checked, theft is illegal, even for FBI agents.
Not anymore. Asset forfeiture is nothing less than theft.
Welcome to modern 'merica, where no one of authority gets held accountable for anything anymore.
The name of the Agent behind all of this should be all over the front page and brought up on charges!
You mean strung up by their own necktie
someone signed this warrant and excecuted it. There is a reason they sign it.
Really.. How about those who gave them the power and consent?? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
FBI oath: “On my honor, I’ll do my best. To help myself, and cheat the rest.”
Key word being "honor". They have none.
"So help me science"
You mean the taxpayers will be paying.
Pretty good racket when you can steal from law abiding citizens, keep the "lost" items, then use someone else's money to compensate the victims. Corruption in its purest form.
Yep we the people need to stand up and say that all lawsuits are to come out of the politicians and the alphabet groups pensions.
I was going to say this. They get to be thieves and we get to pick up the tab. We have to stop civil asset forfeiture, it's just government theft.
@@branchesofYAH that is something i have been saying for the last 20+ years...
@@hellshade2 you're right. But for some reason hundreds of millions of people are afraid of thousands of people? That's why our founding fathers said it was important to water the tree of Liberty on a regular basis
Should make the FBI agents involved in the "lost" inventory personally liable for the compensation amount TIMES TEN!! If the property was worth $10,000, then make a judgment for $100,000. If they can't personally pay, take it directly out of their pensions. Need to investigate and IRS audit every FBI agent involved to hold then accountable.
ten? Far too little. That only works for stuff deriving value from its materials or as a collectible that has equivalent things circulating auctions at times. Sentimental stuff? Or one-of-a-kind collectibles? ten times is nowhere near enough (also, ten times what? how do you even estimate the market price to multiply?)
Too bad there isn't a federal agency to investigate crimes and figure out where these items went... Oh wait
We don't need another federal agency, we need one that isn't run by the government to put them in check.
😱
I thought there might be an agency like that. Hmmm. Guess not! 🤦♂️
There is. The IG's office. Unfortunately didn't prevent the problem.
@@hughmccurdy3348 Why would it? They are federal too aren't they? It's like the criminals looking at the other criminals, nothing will be done.
I was a federally bonded courier at one time and I can’t begin to understand what happened to two party integrity during documented and signed inventory? After that, every time custody changes hands there is a new signature for the sealed contents. When I did this for a living you stick by the numbers and procedures so you don’t get left holding a bag of nothing. Someone needs to start an investigation and subpoena the records of chain of custody.
And i bet you VOTED for your masters a lot.. 😂😂😂
To quote Billy Jack: When lawmen break the law, then there is no law - only a fight for survival.
LOVE Billy Jack! We need a new Billy Jack for this century.
Or as my man TJ opined, "When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty."
Another reason aspiring bank robbers should join the FBI. Flexible hours better benefits and no jail time.
And you don't work nights, get week-ends off.
FBI needs to pay triple damages under RICO
Tax payers should not have to refund the money. The FBI agents who signed for the coins should personally have to repay . They stole the money.
The word INVESTIGATION is literally in their name, and they don't know who stole the property in their.own building?
Obviously not worth investigating.
They know, they did it.
I'm sure the camera covering that part of the evidence room would magically "malfunction" or a data storage "glitch" would delete the footage if it was ever looked into.
Just like the Secret Service doesn't know who brought cocaine to the White House.
And the video camera on Epstein's failed at just the right moment too.
Restitution is not enough. Crooked Fed boys need to go to prison.
In no way does this punish the FBI, nor does it incentivize them not to steal. Since it's not their money and getting paid back its taxpayer money as well as no one getting in trouble or fired
And not just that! There are no innocent bystanders. I don't really believe that the entire FBI is corrupt, yet if those involved are not held personally accountable, the entire organization is guilty.
The IJ should require they prosecute all the agents who took the stuff under 18USC242 as felon criminals. They drilled the boxes to open them. I don’t care if they drop the charge to misdemeanors for some, but all should be charged.
@@DonFahquidmireally.. Who gave power to these gangsters?? GODS?? 😂😂😂
The FBI raided that place like a bunch of pirates. Afterwards, they sat around divvying up the loot!
Every FBI agent involved should have been fired and faced charges.
It is wrong that none at the FBI are being prosecuted. To do what they claimed they were doing, they would need to maintain the boxes intact with their contents, otherwise they could never prove any specific person did anything if their investigation took them in that direction to focus on some subset of the box owners. There’s no legitimate reason why the process would NOT be 1) Open box 2) inventory contents 3) put contents back and lock the box 4) Put box into an evidence room with an identifying tag and copy of the inventory report. Skipping 3 and 4 means theft was the purpose of the task, without doing those they’d never be able to prove a crime against anybody since they screwed up chain of custody.
Don't forget the security cameras, mandatory body-cams, rfid-tags for all items/boxes that log what was put in or taken out, when, and by who (needed credentials to open the thing in the first place), and so on.
"Went missing...😅"
They don't even pretend anymore 🤦🏻♀️
Rigged elections make for bold criminals.
FBI version of Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice.
The amount of illegal stuff the FBI did in this case is insane. That they face basically no consequence for the theft.
And no one's going to go to jail over it either.
And people still trust government 😂😂😂😂
@@paulkovalcik9971 trust is earned, my local government has been delivering incredible results so I know everything is on the up and up. Even with slim margins where a single vote or two would gum up the works. Reasonably good government is possible.
Yes. Right here is where an organization will recognize a problem and they will work at improving their standards of procedures that are to be done to make sure something like this doesn't happen again. Even the US military does it for battles. Whether they lose or win there are always observers watching and taking notes so they can identify weaknesses to correct.
The government should always be required to pay the legal bills of anyone suing them who prevailed in court. That way they can't use their unlimited budget to deny justice to common people.
Every FBI agent involved with this should be investigated and the chain of custody for the property should be investigated and disclosed those involved should be prosecuted.
The FBI's criminal actions should be followed by criminal consequences nothing less than jail time
Someone should still be fired.
If they don't know which agent "lost" or stole the property, then their boss should be fired
Jailed grand Larson
When you break the law, it's the clink for you. When they break the law (the original box opening unrelated to the search), then "lose " the valuable items it's oops, we're sorry.
Several higher ups planned it.
We did, we voted him out... Trump's DOJ.
@@vandrewsanI never heard it said that they were sorry. Maybe they were sorry that they were caught.
Head of the field office should be jailed in contempt until it's all resolved.
Unless the funds come directly from the pockets of the criminal agents involved, it isn't the FBI paying for it, it's the taxpayers.
why no criminal charges ? this is most of what is wrong with the judicial branch, zero accountability
And the government wonders why most Americans don’t trust the government.
Yet the peoples in the gov't seem to not care what we think. It's time to put a little reality in justice. No court seems to hold any gov't crook to account so it falls to the people.
I knew a retired sheriff's deputy from a major US city. He told me that when they confiscated a LEGAL firearm thats someone in the SD wanted when the owner came back to reclaim it they told that person that "it had just been disposed of".
There's one big difference between the Federal agents that did this and the criminals they chase around: the criminals didn't break their oath.
There’s another: the federal agents are paid to break the law.
every single government employee associated with this raid with the exception of the judge who signed the warrant should be forced to explain to a jury why they don't belong in prison
I guarantee some of those agents have some of the missing property
That's a given. But we have no proof since there was no accountability procedures in place control who has access to seized items. Likely the problem goes up into the higher ups.
Not certain. Also possible it is an agency-level operation to re-budget the national budget (from wherever money state gives when it loses in court -> fbi's dark budget that has no transparency and can be used on secret stuff).
Perhaps ALL the agents and their supervisors should be brought up on charges for the raid...and the "lost" items...
If they were dishonest enough to "lose" peoples things, who would think they were honest in the inventory process? Also, what is the value of the things lost in the box? Oh, we lost 63 gold coins, we'll give you the value of 63 ounces of gold but not the value of 63 historic collectors coins because while $160K is a chunk of change for 63 ounces of gold, a single collectors coin could be worth that alone or more...
This, or give him the money amount formulated on a day when gold is set at a historic low. I would demand gold coins, same minting as were "lost" if they were collectible and gaining value reliably. Or their greatest value in the time frame they had them. I think punitive damages are warranted here too.
Also, even if the coin owner was compensated the actual value of the stolen coins, the cash will not appreciate in value, while the stolen coins will continue to do so.
@@terramarini6880 Greatest value they had in that timeframe, is far too little. If that was enough compensation, then that owner would not have had them in the security box in the first place - they would have sold them for that value.
We need to hold public officials to the highest standard.
Hold the FBI accountable is a loose term. What would be more accurate is that taxpayers are going to pay millions of dollars for things the FBI stole. True accountability would be prison terms.
Should arrest all the FBI agents involved
@@mitchellreid4205 NO !PLACE YOUR PERIOD AFTER THE "AGENTS".
It is called budget reallocation - and to their dark budgets at that instead of the transparent stuff journalists investigate.
That "Lost" needs to be in quotation marks.
Every thing in my house has extreme sentimental value. Every single "thing" has a story behind it. They cant be replaced.
Sooo. If you are ever accused of a crime prepare to have your things stolen or destroyed by the cops. They now have the right under asset forfeiture regardless of your guilt.
Take it out of the FBI budget and lock their budget
Yep! Start with salary cuts on the management.
While I'm angry too, some of what the FBI does is very important. For example, it has arrested people running human trafficking rings and rescued victims of those rings. Many children among the victims. We need better and more surgical solutions.
No no. Take out of their budget to make the people whole, then cut their budget in half, and make it illegal for anyone to get around the budget cut by selling things cheaper, or gifting them stuff for free, and have an independent, citizen controlled, group audit and control the FBI Finances, and have the FBI have to get approval from them for EVERY single bit of purchase they want to do from now on.
And then they wonder when trump goes popular for wanting to get rid of the fbi 🙄
They'll just go for more CAF to refill the coffers...
all the fbi "agents" involved in the raid need to be held in federal prison for contempt of court for at least 5 years
WISHFULL FOOLISHNESS OF CITIZEN MYTHOLOGIES BY GUMIT EDUCATIONAL MANDATES.
All involved should be fired and not allowed to work again for ANY law enforcement agency!
The level of government corruption is completely off the wall. The pensions and benefits for those involved should be seized. People should be going to jail but that is as likely as flying pigs and hell freezing over.
The crimes the FBI perpetrated are WORSE than the alleged crime that lead to the original raid. There must be justice!
The FBI specifically and our Government in general has become disgusting.
Most people are nowadays. Gov or not.
And we the taxpayers are paying for this loss
Hmm. The world's foremost investigative organization "lost" valuables. Have they conducted an investigation to determine what happened, and who was responsible? Someone committed grand theft. Maybe they should perform a midnight raid on a few agents' houses, with SWAT teams.
I agree, except it should be a search of the homes, vacation homes, rented storage spaces, safety deposit boxes of every agent and supervisor involved and all their banking records since the time the items were seized and the present.
@@dbeekman9738 That will never come up with anything. Those people are professionals who knows and has the capabilities to make fake identities and setup safe-houses or stashes.
The amount of corruption is mind blowing. Thank goodness for the Institute for Justice, we should ALL send them a donation, they do GREAT WORK.
FBI investigates federal crime, then investigated itself for crimes against citizens of the USA ; “WE FOUND NO EVIDENCE, of wrong doing by the FBI”
Instead of Fort Knox, the gold coins were stored in Fort Yacht.
I love the Institute for Justice. Great non profit !
To make it fairer the judge should have penalized the FBI treble damages and given the extra money to Institute For Justice for future operating expenses.
This is a exsaple of why people don't trust the government!
Some people say that taxation is theft. Do you know what else is theft? Theft.
Taxation is theft with a veneer of authority. This is just another example of government not caring to hide their nature anymore.
This just shows how far this country has fallen.
The government is completely out of control on all levels.
Yet people still just listen and believe it's propaganda without question
@@tarrantwolfin more ways than they even realize
I can’t agree more with you
Just one of the many reasons why we need Trump and his new team in place.
@@thogevoll Trump's a good actor, but he's in on the sh¡T Too
Replace Qualified Immunity with Malpractice Insurance. It would end the hard working taxpayers shouldering this financial burden by morons
"Hurry up, guys, there's gold!"
@@buyerbware25 "and cash too!" Laughs excitedly holding up a bundle of $100 bills...
As a retired LEO, im sickened by the aggressive seizure policy of the feds. The entire civil asset forfeiture needs to be scrapped. Theres no reason i should have any issue traveling with whatever amount of money i want. The law states innocent until proven guilty. This stupid law assumes guilt ahead of time even though the officer knows good and well there is no crime attached to the siezure while hes processing it. Its a source of income for feds and local law enforcement and its straight up criminal. Its theft.
Search warrant on the homes of the agents who took possession of the customers property.
It's not in their homes. They have it stored in a private security vault service somewhere....
It's not there, they already sold it to convert it to cash. You would need a full forensic audit of their financials to find that they couldn't actually afford that 80" TV on their salary and still pay their other bills. Best of luck with that.
Why even get a warrant? They didn't need one to seize the box contents, after all.
@@danielhall6477right. I think a full on SWAT raid is in order.
And no post-raid compensation for their destroyed house & contents...
@danielhall6477 A warrant would be required. We need to prove we're better than they are. The 4th Amendment stands!
They didn't just loose or misplace items,THEY THE AGENTS STOLE EM !
and people still trust the government 🙄 🤣🤣🤣
I don't have any trust anymore for any federal law enforcement. Except they are going to try to screw US over....
search the homes and safe deposit boxes of the agents involved, and you'll find most of the "missing" property. go through their financial records and history, too.
It was not lost, it was stolen!!
"Taxpayers Reimburse Crime Victims." I fixed the headline.
I'm sure those clumsy agents who lost all those valuable don't do this all the time on a smaller scale against people who have no way to rectify it.
The bigger problem is (with just the 63 gold coins) is that they may have been extremely "rare" coins and paying the price of gold value may not make the "victim" whole! Peace...
This story fills me with an indescribable level of righteous anger... 😖
Thank you Institute for Justice... ☺️
I absolutely don’t understand how the FBI can simply ignore a judge’s order with complete impunity. If I were to do that, they’d rain hell down on me. So how does this happen? Do the feds get any consequences for that?
Glad you're covering this story again
"Were taking these boxes because we believe a crime has been committed....
Because we are committing it"
The FBI should have tp reimburse @ 7x the value . PERIOD , END STORY. Tax free from local , state , and federal.
9x would be allowable punitive damages.
They are reimbursing them with our tax dollars. I don't agree with this. I have not stolen anything, so why do I have to be punished and pay them back?
@@joshmonus it should come out if the FBI budget, and then that budget reduced by that much for a minimum of 7 years with NO ADJUSTMENT for inflation.
@@jerrycochran9155 Where do you think the FBI gets their budget from?
Then the award should come from the officer's pension who were involved in the raid.
The government should not be allowed to have an endless supply of money to fight lawsuits against them. They should only be allowed to use what is reasonable. That’s is 1 massive tax burden on the Americans
Where's the body cam video of the boxes being opened? I wouldn't trust a group of gov't workers to open up boxes of loot unsupervised and undocumented. Every casino has camera's in the counting room for a reason.
Feds don't usually have bodycams.
I’m sure they either “forgot” to turn them on or the footage was somehow lost in a freak data purging.
Maybe Congress could find a spare minute to, I don't know, actually act on behalf of the public and call Wray in for questioning?
The Institute for Justice are doing such great work for all of us against our evil government actors .
I can't help but wonder if the IJ attorneys get those phone calls, the threatening ones or similar tactics. It worries me.
If you want that to continue, make frequent and substantial donations to them. They have to eat, too, you know.
IJ is doong the most good. Thank you for the video and everyones support.
So the employees stole and their employer is going to cover it? Sounds like they all need to be fired and charged.
Those who ordered and took place in the raid should have to pay the bill.
I remember when my husband died and he had a safety deposit box and I had to get a a lawyer. The lawyer asked me if I want to pay cash or pay in coins. I told him I would pay him cash but then when I got the coins back, some coins are missing and he said I took stone coins for payment. And I never even seen them. I was a widow with one year-old twins, and that’s how that lawyer treated me. Those coins were their father’s grandfathers. That lawyer took their inheritance.
I'm sorry that happened to your family. It's just plain disgusting. How does someone like that sleep at night?
There is a thing called chain of custody. Assuming that the agents that performed the inventory did not swipe items from the boxes (if that was the case, they would not appear in the inventory).
At some point the contents are moved from the bank to the FBI storage and someone has to sign that they received the 'evidence'. At that point the original agents are no longer responsible for the items. That chain of custody is digitized a very long time ago, so it isn't that hard to find out who opened the specific storage boxes that contained these items. The warehouse clerk needs to register who takes what from the vault, they also make a note when it is returned. It shouldn't be that hard to find out who stole these items!
There was no warehouse clerk. It was a raid
They don’t WANT TO KNOW.
They lost the chain of custody documents too - they're not dumb, just crooked.
EVERY agent involved in this should be charged with a crime.
They "Lost" it in the same way things "disappear" from a locked evidence room.
Why don't we start a public campaign to demand the head of the lead FBI Agent In Charge? This doesn't happen under strong, ethical leadership. But, if there is no consequence, it will ensure that something similar happens in the future. We might be unable to pin a crime on any of the actors, but proving incompetence should be easy enough.
We need to religiously donate to the Institute for Justice. They are very worthy.
I wonder, why hasn’t this been taken before Congress? It should’ve been brought to light a long time ago. This is scary in that it could happen to anyone. The FBI disregarded a federal judge and forfeited a bunch of valuables and it almost went unnoticed.
They might be smart but they might be arrogant enough to think they are special and will get away with it. Wait ... They DID get away with it
Send the IRS to Audit them, See who hasn't payed up on the "Other" tax
Justice under Garland
Each agent involved should be audited by a nonpartisan forensic accountant and subjected to multiple lie detection procedures. These people signed up to be arbiters of the law and should be held to a higher standard.
The highest ranking level of the FBI that approved the theft, excuse me, raid, should be held personally liable.
Whether they were lost or stolen, opening the boxes and losing the valuables is an act of conversion.