Every time I book a ticket, they want to know my date of birth and when I check in, they want to see a valid form of ID. If they claim they did not know her age, that is pure, raw BS.
The airline passes that to the TSA as part of the process. The actual flight attendants may or may not have that information, the systems they use are rather antiquated at this point.
last time I was flying from Madison, where they now check your ID before the security, the guy in front was sent back to the check in counter because the date of birth on his ticket did not match the one on his ID (the day was like 25th versus 26th). So they do have this information for sure. The guy was an elderly in a wheelchair
@@1954Gregbit doesn't take much to add a line of code to give a flag for someone eligible for the unaccompanied minor plan. The airlines want to upsell you anyway.
That was my thought. Removing them to settle the plane while figuring out where to put them does make at least some logical sense. It probably is faster than trying to shuffle people around on the plane with limited space. But, removing people is something you do if you're over capacity, and that even seems kind of odd here. You probably don't even need to weight them, just having folks arrange themselves in line based on their physical size would probably do it.
According to initial news reports from CBC, she was one of "several passengers" that were removed. However, that fact seems to have been lost as the story has been re-told. Still doesn't excuse the airline for its mistake.
Engineer here as well. While I agree with you, FAA regs on number of passengers are very strict, and an overbooked plane is not allowed to take off. Regulations go by number of people (and by extension carry-on bags) not by weight, as each passenger cannot be weighed. Similar rules exist for lack of flight attendants. Sounds like this plane was carrying cargo (that is weighed) and they overbooked
@@jsncrso I agree. All commercial airlines carry cargo for whomever for whatever and quite frankly it is another form of income for airlines that contributes to the availability of low rates in many markets.
@@jsncrso ....actually it IS by weight....and not numbers of passengers. the issue on a smaller aircraft is CG and not 'total weight' The aircraft in question was likely loaded improperly and it was easier for them to kick passengers off than to unload and re-load the plane properly, or to remove SOME of the cargo......this issue was almost certainly an 'out of CG, AFT' issue. I had to deal with just a couple of these issues in my career in aviation. there are also some issues with cargo that, once loaded on the plane, its difficult to remove any/all of it for several weird reasons that dont make sense...but...do, in fact, exist
Many years ago, my then 13 year old son, flying as a tagged unaccompanied minor, was removed from a plane because the flight had been overbooked and apparently some late arriving VIPs needed to be accommodated. This was at an intermediate stop on his journey, leaving him stranded in Chicago. My panicked son called home, my brother called the airline, and a heated discussion ensued. This resulted in an airline employee finding my son and personally escorting him back to the plane. When we met the plane on arrival, an airline employee accompanied him until he was given into my care. While they were very apologetic, this should never have happened.
@@gk5891does that justify them doing that to a child? Regardless of the official _status_ in the airline regulations, *they were still an unaccompanied minor* in every other sense. Legally, mentally, physically, and emotionally. The "status" is irrelevant, it's a CHILD.
Travelling on GreyHound coach, a 12 yr old boarded and her Parent or Guardian was with her but not boarding the coach. The driver said ok she can sit in the front passengers seat by herself. She boards and takes her seat by herself in the front row be the driver and the coach disembarks. In route an adult male passenger on the coach, sitting a few rows back from her, and across the aisle. He tried to start a conversation with the young traveller and the coach operator immediately said Sir do not talk to her. Continued driving, minutes go by and that guy again trys to start a conversation with her. The coach operator slowed the coach entered the shoulder lane of the highway and said, "If you try to talk her one more time you are getting off the bus." And he kept his mouth shut rest of the way. At the destination the driver prevented anyone from leaving the coach by standing in the aisle blocking everyone, till the young girl was off the bus and with someone she knew. The Airline employees seem incompetent and that is worrying.
@@mariegarside8830even if they have both, they are still going to need an adult to sign the booking. It isn't uncommon to find hotels that require you to be 21 to book a room.
You don’t have to be a child to have age problems. I was on a flight that had a block of college kids that were bumped by when they boarded. They found that they couldn’t make the last leg of the flight due to scheduling so they opted to drive, but you had to be 25 to rent a car, and of course have a credit card!
I guess it depends where you live, but I suspect so. Now I'm not sure the 14 year old was abandoned though. If she was escorted to the point where she stepped onto the plane and then the parents had every expectation that she was going to be met at the other end by someone, I don't know how that would be considered.
Any adult that says a 14 yr old girl looks 18, is either making the most lame excuse as an attempt to avoid responsibility or is a potential predator/kidnapper.
Have you guys ever actually seen a 14 year old girl??? When I was a 14, my fully grown 5’8 ass was constantly being confused for a 25 year old. Girls finish puberty much faster then boys do. It is entirely possible to confuse a 14 year old girl for an adult.
@@108wee While even some 12 year old girls look about 16, there are other ways other than the bust size, for an observant adult (especially a woman) to deduce a close approximation of a minor female's age. I've had two granddaughters both with enough upper body padding to attract inappropriate attention, but despite appearances they did not show the level of maturity that an 18 year old might have shown.
Airplane removes child, justifying by saying they didn't know she was alone? So... if she were separated from her family and abandoned in an airport, the airline is totally okay with that.
It was all over the tv about a 12 year old boy, got on the wrong plane, while his parents and sibling were on another ended up stranded in New York over a holiday weekend, as his mother hitched a lift to New York to get to him
Or anyone that bought a ticket for that flight imo, its BS thats its standard ops to boot paying customers off planes on the whim of bean counters. Sell the service, provide the service.
They can’t. If she had said that she was a minor, they could not have removed her. But, she didn’t know that. The 100 dollar plan is for other services.
Just so you realize that if the rules are changed so that the option to purchase a ticket without the designation of unaccompanied minor is removed, then every unaccompanied minor is going to end up paying the higher price for the ticket. Sometimes the proposed solution is worse than the problem.
As someone who used to run special services for Delta at MCO, the fact that the airline did not have an unaccompanied minor both flagged in the system on a ticket, and not escorted to and from the guardians, blows my mind. When I worked there, we explicitly informed the FAs and gate agents about UAs. This is unacceptable.
But the mother said that they hadn't paid the $100 for the unaccompanied minor service, so the girl wouldn't have been flagged in the system. On the other hand, even if she had been accompanied by a parent or guardian, the airline made her unaccompanied when they took her off the plane by herself.
Yeah, like, if they thought she was with family, that's actually *worse* ...because they just took the kid away from her family and stuck her in an airport without even informing the family. Way to go, assholes!
They should and usually have someone with her all the way until she get back on the plane. The fact they don't even know she is a minor was the problem.
IF she were accompanied by her parents/guardian as they claim they thought, they still would've separated her from them! WTF!? That argument makes NO sense!!!
I would bet my own money that the folks who say "she should have spoken up, it's her own fault if they didn't know" are also the folks who usually say "children should be seen and not heard"…
There's that, there's also the fact that she may not have understood that she was being permanently deplaned rather than being removed so that the calculations about which passengers to move to fix the situation would be easier. Having her on there while rebalancing the plane just makes the situation more complicated to resolve. These planes can be adjusted in terms of the flight computer to accommodate different weight distributions, which makes this odd as she probably could have been moved to the other side and one of the fatter people on the other side moved to her side.
Those people are load of BS. Children don't usually out spoken in a new environment or even in normal environment for some and possible their parents told them not to talk to strangers, have they thought about that? These people were thinking with their adult mind. They have no idea the child could be panicking being abandon in a strange place, not knowing what to do.
Forcing people to pay $100 for a"service" to make sure unaccompanied minors don't get kicked off a plane is extortion. How TF is gov regulation allowing them to get away with that?
You have to pay more because they have to make an employee literally babysit your child for the entire flight, it is literally a babysitter fee. If you don’t pay for the babysitter, then you don’t get the babysitter.
If she had been accompanied, they likely would have chosen someone else, because the accompanying adult would also have to de-plane, and that means losing two fares instead of one.
@@horusfalcon But, it sounds like they weren't particularly clear about what was going on while that was going on, or that she didn't understand what was going on. It can be rather hard to hear what's being said during boarding.
@@SmallSpoonBrigadeit is a kid, so maybe she did not listen, but the attendant should have made 100% sure she knew what was going on. The "no way to know" line is BS, as if no one is getting off with her, she was either unaccompanied, or is so now. Either was the flight attendant dropped the ball.
@@horusfalcon So they likely chose her because they thought she was unaccompanied. i.e. they chose an unaccompanied MINOR and didn't even ensure that she would have somewhere to stay or be safe (as far as I can tell). It beggars belief that they were so callous and recklessly negligent. She was kicked off a plane and left to fend for herself. They should have chosen an unaccompanied adult. Even then, they should have made sure that that person was going to be able to cope (e.g. financially). If it transpires that they knew that the father would be able to rescue her, that dramatically changes the situation.
If 80 lbs is enough to satisfy the weight issue, the airline is cutting the saftey margins WAY too close! The fact that they escorted her off of the plane solo, means that they most certainly knew she was at least NOW unescorted by an adult. Child endangerment issues are now in their court ( get it? )
Some 14 year olds can weigh as much or more than an adult. I was a L&D nurse. I cared for teens that weighed 200lbs. or more. But, on average they probably are in the low 100 lb range.
I don't know how much she weighs, but a. she wasn't the only person removed from the flight (there were "several others," according to CBC) and b. looking at her picture, I'd say she weighs a bit more than 80 lbs. These facts do not, however, mitigate the seriousness of the airline's error.
THE FAMILY ABANDONED THEIR CHILD IN A DIFFERENT CITY,they should be sent to jail for child neglect, why were the family NOT WILLING TO STAY WITH THEIR OWN CHILD🤨ABUSE of a minor
@@zachall101 Do you thin leave a child at school is Child abandonment. No of course not. They handed her over to the airlines care the same way parents hand their child into the school care when you drop them of at school.
@@TheMerlotLine So she was removed because she was poor? Better headline in my opinion because the negligent parents have much less control over her being poor, than the ability to protect her based on her age.
Who cares about what "plan" the child is under?! They are a minor, and that warrants a certain level of care, especially when a guardian is not present. This is pure negligence, period.
Yes, would it have been that hard to just have the FA say that they were looking for adults to deplane to address the situation? And if it came down to forcing somebody off, indicating that it was just adults that would be deplaned and to tell the flight crew if they accidentally chose a minor? I don't know how often this has happened in the past, so this might be a novel situation where the flight crew didn't know, but it's still a bad look and something that shouldn't be blamed on the girl or her parents.
I was on a short flight from Chicago to Dayton in an 24 seat turbo prop. When we got on the plane, we found that all ten of us were ticketed for the right side of the plane. Literally, no one was on the left side of the plane. The captain came around and told us to spread ourselves out around the plane to "distribute the weight". When he came back to check, he gave us a thumbs up. Each of us had our own row in the plane.
Where I was raised, selling things you don't have (such as seats on a plane in case ppl don't show up) is called a scam. Movie theaters can't sell seats they don't have, regardless of paying customers showing up. Water parks can't sell cabanas they don't have, regardless of paying customers showing up. Why do airlines get to sell seats they don't have? Just in case paying customers don't show up.
It's a weight imbalance. if too many fat people get on you have a problem. We can't fix this as a society until we accept what looks like fat shaming on ticket purchase. Too bad.
No, the staff the knew and it would be all over her ticket. I work for an airline…the staff knew. The US airline that I work for requires unaccompanied minor service is required for kids 14 and under. 15 and over are considered young person traveling alone. That has its own issues when traveling with a connection. But no, the crew would be able to look at her ticket and know. That airline excuse is not the reason. And that airline owes her money. Now, parents who have kids who aren’t purchasing unaccompanied minor because the teen is 15 and traveling are told by me when I book their flight, “don’t put your 15 years old child on the last connecting flight of the night because a hotel won’t let anyone under the age of 21 get a hotel. This isn’t the airline’s policy it is the hotels’ policy.” And her father in the US would have been allowed to get a pass to get thru TSA and wait with her at the gate until that plane is in the air. Canada’s airlines not similar… don’t get me started.
They pushed off the kid because they wouldn’t argue and resist as much. If 80lbs really made a difference then they had pushed the safety margins to the absolute limit. This is foul and pisses me off. Hope the parents sue the airline for endangering the child. If this was my child then I would tell the airline that I would drop the lawsuit if the person who made the decision give me an apology in person….but they would be sorry on my terms and would leaving the encounter needing emergency dental work and I’d be on the way to jail. That person would never do that to another child so it would be worth the assault charge because For the rest of their lives whenever they ate an apple or a steak they would remember my child and what they did.
You assume a teen can weigh more than adults which is so far off from reality. Im middle aged and I see kids on a daily basis that weigh 3-4× more than me.
Not pushing the safety limits. It's entirely possible the safety limits are something like "two extra hours of fuel," and her weight made it "1:58 extra hours of fuel." There's no reason to believe it would have been disastrous to fly with the extra weight.
Its so absurd, its literally Unacompanied Minor insurance; like ya mite get for your bags to make sure ya get paid if they get lost on the way...........
It is an extra service. They have an employee escort you throughout the airport and stay with you until you are onboard and handed off to the FA. For longer layovers they will often have a play area. There is no reason the airline should have to bear the burden of that cost.
@@SylviaRustyFae It isn't insurance, it a a service. From the moment you hand over custody of your child the airline, the agent will walk the child to their seat and hand over responsibility to the head FA. That head FA will ensure that the child is supervised throughout the flight, with a FA checking on the child often and holding them onboard until an agent can take custody of the child. If there is a layover the agent will walk your child to their next gate and stay with them, or if it is a longer layover at a hub there is often a play area. And the destination the agent will then make sure that the child is handed off to the responsible party at the destination. It is only reasonable that the parents pay the cost for that service. You want full service airlines you need to pay full service prices.
@@Teampegleg Then why is it a hidden fee? If they don't want to pay out of their billions to escort minors then why is this not included when booking the tickets? They want ALL your information when booking so you are telling that they can't have a check box that says unaccompanied minor that automatically adds the fee onto the ticket price? RIGHT... SMH... Just sounds like another penny they are squeezing out of people and if those people DON'T know about it well they are shit out of luck then when their kid is abandoned at the airport. Seems like they waited to send her ALONE till they thought she was old enough to go ALONE so they never had to deal with this hidden fee that you only know or are told about if it is the mandatory ages. Them coming back with "well they didn't pay extra for us to watch her so we don't care" is a shaky leg to stand on when that minor is effectively in their care even if they payed the extra or not. They DON'T have to "burden the cost" you are right but they WILL have to burden the cost of this lawsuit because of their own incompetence in their system that can't flag a CHILD as such unless they pay more... Even if she WAS with an adult their system didn't even flag her age so they could look for a parent till they deboarded her? THAT is what is going to win a lawsuit for the family. (families can't always sit together what if her parent was on the flight, didn't see them take her off, and then took off in a flight without their kid on board?)
@@c308682 So what, the burden of this kind of screw up is paid by the taxpayers in the form of airline bailouts or by the ticket purchasers in the form of higher prices. This should be paid for by the staff that screwed up as they have clearly demonstrated that they are not competent to work as an FA. FAs are primarily there for passenger safety in a emergency and this demonstrates a complete failure in terms of passenger safety.
Except that the regulations changed, 14 - 17 is now optional and coverage has to be purchased. Deregulation is a good thing! Leaves kids abandoned in airports, which is good or something.
My husband and I spent 23 hours waiting for our plane to leave Detroit for Florida. We were repeatedly told it was "just delayed" and would be there soon. Then moved us several times to different gates. They didn't cancel it and we were told we would be the first flight out in the morning. When morning came they decided it was canceled and tried to fill that plane with the folks who had the tickets to it and had close to 200 people almost riot. Cops and the press were everywhere so they decided that they couldn't arrest everyone and let us on the plane. They also gave people free tickets to use in the future. The other people then had to wait for another, empty plane to come. They were also given free tickets.
Some say the airline is still delayin the passengers and givin out free tickets to this day, as a new planes worth of ppl keep gettin stuck for lack of proper plannin by the airport; after the prior group gets out
Had the same thing happen with a flight out of Indianapolis. They delayed and "lied" until late, my guess is to keep people from rebooking on another airline. I won't tell you the airlines name but it states with "U" and the word means together, but definitely not in this case. They created another flight number (probably to keep the system from showing the flight as late) and the next day we were told a particular time and then again it was hours late because the crew was coming in on another flight and it was late.
I was 12, flying alone, on Continental. Newark to South Florida. The flight was delayed 3 times before they canceled it. The look of the ticket attendants faces when I told them I was 12 and flying alone was priceless. They assigned a chaperone, put us up in a hotel, late dinner, breakfast the next morning, and on the first flight to my destination. You have to empower kids to speak up. .
That's a detail that a lot of folks are missing, even if she did understand that she wouldn't be getting back on the plane when she left, which it sounds like wasn't clear, she may not have felt comfortable telling a FA that and then dealing with the awkwardness of the reactions from other passengers.
My little brother and I used to fly alone yearly to go skiing. Many years ago I was 9ish, he was 7ish. Back then, a nice stewardess would walk us to our seats, maybe let us meet the captain, give us those continental "wing pins". It was great. Fast forward 40 years, I wouldn't even dream of letting my kids do the same.
I flew all my life, been through O Hare' ~11 years old. So, they would kick off a kid without notifying the possible parent on the plane? My dad used to buy the cheapest tickets with 4-5 hour layovers with airline changes all the way across the airports. That was back in the 60's-70's. I am in AWE now-days, they don't have clocks or signs anymore, must be an AP that everyone knows where they are going.
I was thinking the same thing because I seem to remember putting in my birthday whenever I book a flight. I have one coming up next week so I looked at my reservation and my age isn't on there. It's on other documents that are part of my trip but not my flight reservation. It's still not an excuse because 99/9% of the time you can tell when someone is 14 years old and going forward it should be required, especially if they are under 18.
Checking porters booking now date of birth is a required field. And ID to board. Plus she woukd have been the only passenger on the booking. (Families normally book together)
Airlines should know this! Once our family was returning from HNL (Honolulu), and despite the child being BETWEEN two adults, the airline cancelled the flight, sent the child to LAX, and the adults to PHX! The initial flight was nonstop. We rebooked to the next day, and filed a claim!
yeah, they don't really pay attention to such things. I was once flying from Victoria to Toronto on AirCanada, and the computer tried to book my 6-year-old into a seat at the opposite end of the airplane. Luckilly, their staff were not dumb enough to argue with me when I told them to fix it.
Were the tickets on the same booking, or at least linked? If some tickets were bought with frequent flyer points, but there weren't enough points for the entire family, so another ticket was purchased with cash, the airline may not have known that the tickets were related. Generally, they will not split a reservation unless you ask them to. They probably could have swapped one of the adults with the child, which would have gotten everyone home sooner, but probably there wasn't enough time to make the change between the cancellation and the next flight option.
As a former Pan Am Airline employee, every time I get bumped off a flight, I always get free airfare, hotel stay, money for food, money for clothing, money for transportation, etc. Life is good when you know your rights.
My parents recently flew back to the states to vist family (we moved to Europe) and the American Airline they used canceled their flight last minute then tried to play dumb about Mom and Dad's rights. Amazing how has their tunes changed when my sister copy pasted the relevant laws into an email (easier to to have her do it from a computer than on Mom or Dad's phones). They are banking on you not looking it up.
@@absurdengineeringyou obviously don’t know your rights. Yes in the U.S. being bumped, and lost or delayed luggage is entitled to comp. Up to 400% of fares for being bumped and up to 3800 for lost or delayed luggage.
It was an admission of guilt! They are required to know when they board an unaccompanied minor, and saying they didn't know means they are not complying with the law! The FAA needs to investigate this. Call your local FSDO! I am!
@@dmitripogosian5084 Essentially yes, although it can get tricky if any part of the flight does fly over US airspace. There's no visas required as long as the flight doesn't land in the US, however, things like the no fly list do still apply just for entering US airspace.
Believe it or not, 80 lbs will crash even the largest aircraft. There's a saying in transportation--"Rules are written in blood"..... and strict adherence to weight limits is one of those rules......
Yeah they should’ve kicked off an adult - not a child. I get the weight imbalance, at some point airlines are likely going to have to begin weighing passengers but I don’t get why you’d choose a teenager, you’d go for an adult never anyone that’s a minor
not incompetence. think a dozen tons plane will spin out of control by the weight of a 14 yo girl? then some heavier person might crash the plane by leaving a window seat to go to the toilet. this wsn't incompetence, this was premeditated evil
Right there with ya. I'd want to know who the principals were who made this decision, how they determined she was the cause of the imbalance (as opposed to the 450 pound Sumo Wrestler flying first class), and I would definitely be speaking with counsel about it at the very least if the airline did not make things right.
Now see, If I went & dropped my 14 yr old kid off in a random town & left, I'd be arrested & jailed for child neglect but somehow the people who have agreed to be responsible for my kid (& yes if you are selling tickets to minors without their parents having to also fly, you are agreeing) can freely do so without consequences. Complete bull.
You should never ever fly a plane that close to its weight and balance limits that you would have to kick someone who weighs 80 lbs off. We try to keep our planes under 33% MAC but our actual safe to fly limit is 37%. It would take thousands of pounds to get there and a lot of miscalculation. Unacceptable.
Except that isn't how it works. If you are in the industry then you should know that the FAA requires you to use 190lbs for passenger weight for W&B purposes.
My husband and I flew on Command Airways once when they weighed each passenger while holding carry-ons, purses, etc. I was bringing two or three magazines to read on the plane. They came through the line and took items away from passengers. They took my magazines.
I looked it up, and she was not the only passenger deplaned. which only means she wasn't singled out - they still scheduled too much weight for the plane.
I've been using commercial flights for better than a half-century, and this is the first time I ever hear of removing someone because of a "weight imbalance." Sounds like a crock to me, particularly when it's the weight of one 14-year-old girl.
Do you know how to calculate the W&B of an aircraft? Would it surprise you that a 50 Kg person in the last row has far more effect than a 150 Kg person sitting over the wing?
I traveled by myself across country at the age of 16 (I probably looked like I was 14 to an adult). There was a change of planes in the Twin City's. My flight ended up at the wrong gate and the airline staff didn't know I had another fight down another concourse. Running in the skirt and heals my grandmother made me wear, I ran to my next flight. The gate attendant had just closed the doors. She decided to walk back down with me to see if the pilot would open the door again. They were pushing the plane back and the pilot saw me (tears in my eyes) stopped the plane and moved forward to open the door. I gratefully hopped across the gap and took an isle seat available. What was amazing we landed at my home airport ontime and my luggage was there. I wish that airlines cared about their clients more like they seemed to back in the 80's.
I suspect they are literally not allowed to do that anymore. Post-9/11, rules were put into place on all sorts of things on the logic that theoretically a 14 year old child or 90 year old woman might be a terrorist concealing a bomb.
@@jonathanbuzzard1376 Yeah, sadly it took the Air India and Lockerbie incidents to teach airlines that. That said, if they supposedly no longer do that, how are they supposed to get your lost/misdirected baggage back to you?
@@hotlavatube I guess the notion is that it is lost luggage and the chances of a bomb being in lost luggage is very remote. Perhaps they give it extra scrutiny before it get loaded? I have been on planes where people's luggage was removed because they where not on the plane.
Reminds me of a time I was flying from Cincinnati to San Jose. A woman sitting near me who had show dogs in her luggage was quite distraught because no one knew where her dogs were. Apparently they were getting a tour of the airport via luggage carts. The captain came over and told the woman that she too was a dog lover and she was NOT going to release the brakes on the aircraft until the dogs were found and put aboard. The dogs arrived just in time, as the captain was about to be ordered to depart because another plane needed the gate. I saw the dogs in their crates at baggage claim in San Jose.
All the adults on that plane who sat by and watched them drag a kid off the plane, without offering themselves instead? Shame on each and every one of them.
That's just BS. They didn't bother to ask her where her parents were before they booted her off the plane? I used to live in Mt. Clemons and I flew numerous times out of the Detroit Airport. Once on a flight out I had a very young boy (probably between 10 and 12) ask me to use my phone so he could call his dad. I gave him my phone to use but I looked around and I didn't see any adults that the boy was with. I asked him if he was alone, and he said yes. I didn't think that was right, but I kept an eye on him till he boarded his plane. In California, I've taken a little girl to the airport (she was six at the time) and I had to check her into the airline where an attendant took charge of her to ensure she was passed over to a flight attendant on her flight. This happened again when I picked her up. One of the flight attendants turned her over to a ground agent who kept control of her till I could pick her up. I went through this process again a few months later when she flew out to see her grandparents. I thought this was the normal way that children traveled safely, but I was quite surprised to see that this was not the case with the young boy.
They may not have realized what was happening. If she was sitting there and they asked her to come with them, other passengers would have no idea what they were doing. Sometimes people get moved around on a plane for various reasons.
No airline should EVER be removing an unaccompanied minor except by request of the parents. Period. If these are not policies across the board, they should be by yesterday.
Okay, the parents didn't buy the special ticket for extra supervision, and some kids are pretty good at getting around on their own, but this should flagged under minimum care stardard for minors maybe disabled passengers too. Isn't age and disabilities asked when booking?
I've seen stewardesses ask for ID on flights to make sure if it is legal to serve alcohol to a specific person. This is a very strange story as she was either unaccompanied, or they removed her from the flight, but left her parents on the flight?
@@xcalibertrekker6693 I have never seen a case where an unaccompanied child has been causing problems on a flight. Most of them are just trying to get to where they need to go and are likely nervous without a parent to the point of being completely walled up and silent. Not saying it hasn't happened in some cases, but your overgeneralization of how kids act is unfair and without evidence. It also has nothing to do with this scenario. They were not removed for being unruly. They were removed because they were an easy target by the airline and it never should have happened. That kid has zero knowledge of how to rebook a flight and isn't going to be able to communicate with whomever is picking them up of the new flight arrival time, where their luggage is, etc.
@@Voyajer. Their age means nothing to me if they can't handle any potential problems they shouldn't be there. I don't care about your safety just the money I get from you buying tickets. If you dont like it dont send kids.
Everyone should look around at why they're outraged that a child was deplaned but not outraged that Carly Gregg is currently on trial. Are 14 year olds children that know better or not?
In the us all involuntary deplaning entitles you to compensation... I can't imagine it's all that different in Canada. If they are going by "fare selection" There might be fine print somewhere to negate this, but I still suspect they picked someone by trying to pick someone demure in the hopes they'd not demand the entitled compensation. It backfired here though
I've never seen the big airlines not offer some compensation, but I have seen it be like 50 dollars, which probably isn't enough to book a hotel room. Wonder what airline this was?
@@professorhaystacks6606 I got offered to bump to the next flight once. The compensation was free round trip ticket to anywhere in the us. I was going to take it until they told me the next flight was not for 9 hours.
Twenty years ago, my 15 year old daughter flew unaccompanied from Dallas to Phoenix. I don't recall if I paid extra for it, but at check-in she was given a lanyard to wear that identified her as an unaccompanied minor, and she was seated in a location that allowed the flight attendants to more easily monitor her security. Upon her arrival at Sky Harbor, an airline representative had to stay with her until she was handed off to me, and I had to identify myself as the person authorized to receive her. I think she flew American Airlines. I'm surprised that this isn't a standard requirement now.
My husband was good friends with a VP of American Airlines in the 1990s. He listened in on the story and laughed when I read your comment. He said "[The VP] would have been asking questions and then the Airport Manager would have gotten involved if they did that then". The VP travelled 6 days per week and often saw a lot of "things". And he agrees with some of the other posters the airport personnel are not doing their jobs (I cleaned up his language) and just duck responsibility.
There is simply no way that deplaning one 14 yr old girl would bring a plane into center balance given they chose her not based on her seat position on the aircraft, but, based on her fare cost.
@@MistImp1 What some are missing is that there are two different things likely being discussed; weight imbalance in the plane and a plane that is over weight limitations. With imbalance, think surfing where you have to keep a center balance with your weight. The plane may be front or rear heavy causing passengers to be moved to new seats to equal out the center weight. With overweight, each passenger is given a standard weight, then you have fuel and cargo, all added together for a final weight that cannot exceed X amount. The airline forced this girl, along with some other passengers supposedly, off the plane based on fare cost not where they sat. That means the plane was overweight due to cargo, not that there was a weight imbalance. The airline is trying to play smoke and mirrors for the fact they kicked a 14 girl off the plane due to financial considerations (cargo over low fare passenger)
Laziness and playing stupid to avoid accountability has become a huge problem. So many people now will do things devoid of decency because they want to think they're overworked and underpaid, even if that's far from the truth.
The simple fact is that unless you're in at least middle management you're underpaid. Maybe not overworked, but "COLA" raises and merit raises are not and have not met inflation for years.
Whether or not they are, my point is that so many people nowadays, from fast food to fortune 500 are getting away with things that not long ago would have gotten them fired and caused a "don't be like them" meeting. Everyone's been conditioned to act like being expected to think for themselves and do their jobs properly is harassment.
They used authority to get a weak invidual out of the plane in order to avoid bribing the defaulted passenger. Your Detroit story reminded me about the flight when we got the very last plane out of Barcelona when Spanish and French air controllers started striking. Due to all the delays, we arrived to ABSOLUTELY PITCH BLACK Arlanda airport in the wee hours. Yes, the damn thing was closed and almost airplane full of internaltionally continuing passengers stucked there. In the dark, wishing to have a flashlight, at least. I managed to find a very annoyed guard two stairs down in a secret room below the stairs (at least it did not have 'Beware of the Leopard' sign).
Back in the 1970's as an 11 year old I used to fly internationally on Pan Am, Braniff, Varig and some other regional airlines by myself. The FA, counter personnel knew that I was flying alone and someone always made sure that I was handled over to the next airline, and although I knew how to navigate between terminals, etc they always did a proper hand over between airlines. This happened every time I traveled as a minor. No one dropped me off or picked me up at the airports. I took a taxi to and from my house. I loved that because it made me grow up and become more self confident as an individual.
You misunderstand how legislation works. Legislation is much more likely to guarantee greed is mandated by law than it is to reduce it. Companies pay kickbacks to the politicians to guarantee this outcome. That's what the climate agenda is all about.
I know exactly how legislation works, it's always stacked against someone or something. Until we can curtail the reprobates on K Street we're screwed. Otherwise it's money talks and you know the rest.
almost 22 years working at a major airport here, mostly dealing with cargo planes. there is a 0% chance that a 14 year old girl would be the source of any issues for the aircraft, even if she was jumping up and down on either end of the plane.
TBH, that's where I get very confused about this being a balance issue. Modern jets can be programmed to account for the weight distribution of the people in the cabin before taking off. As long as significant numbers of people aren't moving around the cabin, that doesn't cause problems. Adjustments can be made in flight if the plane seems to be drifting to the side as well. If it's a lot of people being deplaned for this, that's just strange. It's also strange that they didn't just announce that they were just going to select adults and entire families to address the problem so she could object. It sounds like it wasn't clear to her if she would be getting back on the plane after the distribution issue had been addressed.
Oh HELL NO. As a parent, I would sue every single airline employee and the airline for child endangerment. I have had a child fly unaccompanied many times. They are legally responsible. That is absolutely unacceptable 😡
I thought the same thing then looked up the regs: you have to be 16 to solo an aircraft in the U.S. and Canada. She can only fly around with an instructor 🤣
Why in world would a 14 year old be kicked off the plane for the plane being overweight. Should have removed an overweight adult. The airline definitely is at fault and definitely should be held accountable.
Because the weight and balance sheets assume e.g. 200 standard passengers at 190 lbs each. And common sense be damned, the plane needs to be balanced "on paper" to keep the FAA happy.
@@princekamoro3869 Oops, this plane was in Canada. The FAA is only a US agency. It is the Federal Aviation Association Nothing Canadian about it. Duh!
Yup, and watch in court the lawyers for the airline will argue, "She agreed to voluntarily give up her seat. We expect the court to honor the choice the 14 year old made."
@@wolfmantroy6601CTA dictates that an overnight delay must be offered accommodation at a lodging within reasonable distance from the airport and provided with transportation to and from, if they failed to offer her the mandated minimal accomidations they could be sued
No child traveling alone should never be deplaned. That “service” offered is just a way to get $ from parents. No one in their right mind would deplane a little kid.
The fact that they stated that they didn't know she was unaccompanied makes no sense. Are they saying that they knew she was accompanied but kicker her off while letting her parent say on the flight?
My understanding is that unaccompanied minors are supposed to be kept track of? Like I'm pretty sure the flight attendants are supposed to keep track of them, for the minors safety!
@@jonmoceri The airline's claim is - they didn't know she was "unaccompanied." That would mean the airline purposely separated a young teen from a parent or guardian who was still on board ( ie "accompanied" by an adult who they thought was somewhere on board).
My 15 year old daughter and stepdaughter with the do not bump tickets got bumped in LA and shut into a preschool room. They were told when they were getting on the connecting flight so since they had time they left the airport took the transit bus to a store catering to their clothing and shopped. I had to buy their “overspending” by card and talked to them. They took the bus back and were waiting at the gate when the airline called in a panic because they lost our daughters, wonderful negotiation point. They got another free ride to Hawaii and this trip reimbursed with an unlimited time on the tickets.the “kids” were fine and got an afternoon to roam LA and their graduation from high school trip because of a ticket over site.
Not true. They have an unaccompanied minor that they are just abandoning in the airport. This is unacceptable as the child could have been kidnapped or otherwise harmed due directly to the negligence of this airline. Steve, I also have a problem with the story that you related about an underage girl getting stranded. The FAs should have escorted her when everyone was deplaned. I have traveled many times as an unaccompanied minor and they made sure that I was escorted even when making connections during my trip. The obvious question is if this girl looked young they should have asked for her age prior to removing her from the plane.
Do they actually, though? No matter your politics, I'm pretty sure fat acceptance goes out the window when you're seated next to someone taking up half of your seat in addition to their own.
There's no excuse for that in my opinion, my mom was big and never had qualms about accepting it, she fought her weight all her life, she was 82 when she died, still struggling but not complaining.
I do not think it is about the rules and policies of the airline. Leaving a 14 year girl unattended seems like an unlawful act to me. The airline took "custody" by taking her on the plane and left her alone afterwards. How can that be lawful? To wit: "Steve, what if someone ask you to temporarily take care of a 14 year old and you put her on the street because your policies indicated that. Is that a real defense?" Policy over Law?
If *one* 14-year-old girl's weight is the difference between a safe flight and a dangerous one, I don't want to be on that plane. They're *way* too close to the limits with zero margins.
There were other people kicked off. The issue here is that they shouldn't be deplaning teens just because they didn't pay to be chaperoned for the trip.
So you are saying the adults that accompany minors are completely negligent and legally incompetent to act as guardians? "Oh gee they just took my kid away, aw well I'm sure it will be fine. I don't want to be a bother asking asking what they are doing."
@@TheDuckofDoom. I think he is pointing out the absolute illogic of saying we didn't know she was unaccompanied when we threw her off, because if she hadn't been unaccompanied before their actions would cause her to be. The very fact that no adult spoke up also makes it pretty clear she was unaccompanied.
I was offered 400 to fly 2 days later. I didn't mind cause I was staying at my brother's house. 2 people didn't show and I made the flight. I'm 48 and it wasn't a problem. She is 14 and shouldn't have to make a choice.
They also force you to do this kind of thing all the time no matter how badly you need to get to a location. Remember the doctor that was assaulted because it was the airline's right to remove him with force simply because he wouldn't get up?
They shouldn't have to buy a "plan" to ensure a minor doesn't get kicked off the plane. the airlines shouldn't be allowed to kick off any minor off the plane, accompanied or not.
On a flight from Roswell (NM) to Albuquerque once I was told to trade seats with another person (I'm a big boy) for balance purposes. They moved me closer to the aircraft center of gravity. As an aerospace engineer, I understood the issue. It made the guy in the next seat really nervous
@@rogerguinn4619 Yes, we had to load our luggage onto scales followed by ourselves. Carried our luggage onto tarmac and then placed inside the lines next to the aircraft. It was just the pilot and myself on one flight (1985). We followed the 54 freeway up to Alamo-White Sands Regional.
AA stranded thousands in the Dallas airport (me included) back at the end of May. Flew me in knowing all their flights were delayed and/or canceled due to weather. Saw a young girl there in the same boat😢 I have never had such a bad experience flying and trying to get reimbursed for all my costs just trying to get back home. When I finally got AA' s reimbursement, they deducted my flight to Dallas because they said they got me there. Absolute trash! 😡
Depends, On a 767 flight I was on, Captain made a announcement,bunch of 1st Class and Business class passengers were moved to economy seating. Last moment Ad-hoc Freight in the Cargo hold up front is may profitable than passengers. Airline business has very low returns in the grand scheme of things; better returns in car repair or restaurant business.
Pilot In Command criminally guilty of child endangerment. They are the final authority on who gets kicked off the plane the moment they walk thru the door.
You can look at a 14 year old and see they are not an adult. I've flown back in the 80's as an unaccompanied minor from Seattle to Tokyo. and a couple of times in the 90's my boys flew from San Francisco to Chicago as unaccompanied minors. Thankfully we never had problems. This makes me sick.
My friends flew from Pennsylvania to California every year by themselves to see their father. I don't remember any horror stories and they were in middle school.
@@phlodeli knew of maybe 2 guys who in middle school also could pass for an adult. Both were absolutely massive. Both over 6 feet, maybe 6’3 and both a bit on the heavy side. One could pass for a middle aged adult. The other could pass off for a young college adult.
I say this as a 26 year old who has routinely been confused as a high schooler. Sometimes you just can't tell how old someone is. I hate growing out my beard. But at least people guess early 20s when I do.
This is absolutely crazy! As a mother of two children that often flew between New Zealand and Australia, I am appalled! The service here is much better - we never had to pay more for this and the airline staff were very well aware that they were unaccompanied minors and my children were well looked after.
Per Porter Airline's own website - they had to know, as she boarded, that she was unaccompanied. They "will be escorted to the aircraft ahead of other passengers and will be greeted by the member of our cabin crew who will guide [the child] to an assigned seat." Further they "will be seated close to the flight attendants so they can keep [ an eye on [them]" The father,again as per Porter's website was required to remain in the gate area (or airport) until advised the aircraft had departed. Something broke down somewhere.
@@SylviaRustyFae It's mostly a fee to go towards the added work that's involved between flights. There shouldn't be any actual fee for what goes on on the flight itself as there shouldn't be any real increase in work for the flight crew.
I remember once, my then 6yo and I took a commuter flight up the coast from LAX and when my daughter took the seat behind the pilot and I took the one behind her, the pilot said the the next guy, “sir, please sit here because we need to balance the plane.” It was a 14 passenger plane.
I took a small plane with my class in school, and somebody asked to change seats. The pilot pulled out his slide rule and made a quick calculation before okaying the change.
Every time I book a ticket, they want to know my date of birth and when I check in, they want to see a valid form of ID. If they claim they did not know her age, that is pure, raw BS.
The airline passes that to the TSA as part of the process. The actual flight attendants may or may not have that information, the systems they use are rather antiquated at this point.
@@TheSanzca sure. that's when buying a ticket. checking in for a flight, employee is only checking for name. could not care one bit how old you are
last time I was flying from Madison, where they now check your ID before the security, the guy in front was sent back to the check in counter because the date of birth on his ticket did not match the one on his ID (the day was like 25th versus 26th). So they do have this information for sure. The guy was an elderly in a wheelchair
@@1954Gregbit doesn't take much to add a line of code to give a flag for someone eligible for the unaccompanied minor plan. The airlines want to upsell you anyway.
No TSA in England.
Mechanical engineer here.
Offloading one passenger for "weight imbalance" is pure horseshit.
That was my thought. Removing them to settle the plane while figuring out where to put them does make at least some logical sense. It probably is faster than trying to shuffle people around on the plane with limited space. But, removing people is something you do if you're over capacity, and that even seems kind of odd here. You probably don't even need to weight them, just having folks arrange themselves in line based on their physical size would probably do it.
According to initial news reports from CBC, she was one of "several passengers" that were removed. However, that fact seems to have been lost as the story has been re-told. Still doesn't excuse the airline for its mistake.
Engineer here as well. While I agree with you, FAA regs on number of passengers are very strict, and an overbooked plane is not allowed to take off. Regulations go by number of people (and by extension carry-on bags) not by weight, as each passenger cannot be weighed. Similar rules exist for lack of flight attendants. Sounds like this plane was carrying cargo (that is weighed) and they overbooked
@@jsncrso I agree. All commercial airlines carry cargo for whomever for whatever and quite frankly it is another form of income for airlines that contributes to the availability of low rates in many markets.
@@jsncrso ....actually it IS by weight....and not numbers of passengers. the issue on a smaller aircraft is CG and not 'total weight'
The aircraft in question was likely loaded improperly and it was easier for them to kick passengers off than to unload and re-load the plane properly, or to remove SOME of the cargo......this issue was almost certainly an 'out of CG, AFT' issue.
I had to deal with just a couple of these issues in my career in aviation.
there are also some issues with cargo that, once loaded on the plane, its difficult to remove any/all of it for several weird reasons that dont make sense...but...do, in fact, exist
Many years ago, my then 13 year old son, flying as a tagged unaccompanied minor, was removed from a plane because the flight had been overbooked and apparently some late arriving VIPs needed to be accommodated. This was at an intermediate stop on his journey, leaving him stranded in Chicago. My panicked son called home, my brother called the airline, and a heated discussion ensued. This resulted in an airline employee finding my son and personally escorting him back to the plane. When we met the plane on arrival, an airline employee accompanied him until he was given into my care. While they were very apologetic, this should never have happened.
Wow, what scumbags. Shame it took an outraged adult to kick up a stink before they decided to sort it out. Which airline was that?
In this case she was flying as an Adult (Standard Status). UA is optional for 12-17 yo.
horrific.. someone should sue the airline for things like that. Child endangerment.
@@gk5891does that justify them doing that to a child? Regardless of the official _status_ in the airline regulations, *they were still an unaccompanied minor* in every other sense. Legally, mentally, physically, and emotionally. The "status" is irrelevant, it's a CHILD.
Minors -- especially travelling unaccompanied -- should never be removed from the plane.
Travelling on GreyHound coach, a 12 yr old boarded and her Parent or Guardian was with her but not boarding the coach. The driver said ok she can sit in the front passengers seat by herself. She boards and takes her seat by herself in the front row be the driver and the coach disembarks. In route an adult male passenger on the coach, sitting a few rows back from her, and across the aisle. He tried to start a conversation with the young traveller and the coach operator immediately said Sir do not talk to her. Continued driving, minutes go by and that guy again trys to start a conversation with her. The coach operator slowed the coach entered the shoulder lane of the highway and said, "If you try to talk her one more time you are getting off the bus." And he kept his mouth shut rest of the way. At the destination the driver prevented anyone from leaving the coach by standing in the aisle blocking everyone, till the young girl was off the bus and with someone she knew.
The Airline employees seem incompetent and that is worrying.
What a fantastic protective bus driver,amazing person, well done.
@@bettywhiting7699doing what you’re supposed to do doesn’t make you “fantastic”
@@michaelashley2855in this day and age. It does
Nowadays? It sure as hell *does!*
That bus driver performed his duties well. I'm sure he sleeps well at night knowing that he makes a habit out of doing the right thing.
A child cannot buy a hotel room. They should _never_ cancel a child's seat and reschedule them for the next day.
@@Tom-6502 Thank you for that very helpful pedantry.
Most teenagers lack a credit card and ID (other than a school issued ID) to rent a hotel room.
@@mariegarside8830even if they have both, they are still going to need an adult to sign the booking. It isn't uncommon to find hotels that require you to be 21 to book a room.
You don’t have to be a child to have age problems. I was on a flight that had a block of college kids that were bumped by when they boarded. They found that they couldn’t make the last leg of the flight due to scheduling so they opted to drive, but you had to be 25 to rent a car, and of course have a credit card!
@mariegarside8830 it's not even about the money. Most hotels WILL NOT rent to an unaccompanied minor.
Could I be charged with a crime if I abandoned a fourteen year old alone in a strange city?
I guess it depends where you live, but I suspect so. Now I'm not sure the 14 year old was abandoned though. If she was escorted to the point where she stepped onto the plane and then the parents had every expectation that she was going to be met at the other end by someone, I don't know how that would be considered.
@@TraceyMush.. I think the question here is : can the AIRLINE be charged with abandoning/endangering a minor
@@ingfig1 It can be sued and I see good chances of winning. Most probably they would pay up to avoid an embarrassing lawsuit.
When your spokesman uses the "She looked 18 to us" defense, you've got some problems man.
Any adult that says a 14 yr old girl looks 18, is either making the most lame excuse as an attempt to avoid responsibility or is a potential predator/kidnapper.
Have you guys ever actually seen a 14 year old girl???
When I was a 14, my fully grown 5’8 ass was constantly being confused for a 25 year old. Girls finish puberty much faster then boys do. It is entirely possible to confuse a 14 year old girl for an adult.
@@108wee
While even some 12 year old girls look about 16, there are other ways other than the bust size, for an observant adult (especially a woman) to deduce a close approximation of a minor female's age. I've had two granddaughters both with enough upper body padding to attract inappropriate attention, but despite appearances they did not show the level of maturity that an 18 year old might have shown.
Deplane an unaccompanied minor? Get charged for child endangerment.
Deplane an accompanied minor without her parents? Get charged for child endangerment too!
And kidnapping.
Felony kidnapping. Mandatory prison time.
Airplane removes child, justifying by saying they didn't know she was alone? So... if she were separated from her family and abandoned in an airport, the airline is totally okay with that.
And that's their potential lawsuit great take you're the only one that figured that out, 😊
Also, the sheer late-stage capitalism of "this person paid less, kick them off". Because fuck poor people, I guess.
80# girl makes for a weight imbalance⁉️
REALLY ⁉️🤡
Apparently
It was all over the tv about a 12 year old boy, got on the wrong plane, while his parents and sibling were on another ended up stranded in New York over a holiday weekend, as his mother hitched a lift to New York to get to him
That should NOT be a service you have to purchase. It should be a given that the airline can't bump unaccompanied minors off a flight.
Especially not without any sort of disruption and/or medical emergency where the child would be put into the care of someone else when off the plane.
Or anyone that bought a ticket for that flight imo, its BS thats its standard ops to boot paying customers off planes on the whim of bean counters. Sell the service, provide the service.
They can’t. If she had said that she was a minor, they could not have removed her. But, she didn’t know that. The 100 dollar plan is for other services.
Just so you realize that if the rules are changed so that the option to purchase a ticket without the designation of unaccompanied minor is removed, then every unaccompanied minor is going to end up paying the higher price for the ticket. Sometimes the proposed solution is worse than the problem.
No one with a valid ticket should be removed
As someone who used to run special services for Delta at MCO, the fact that the airline did not have an unaccompanied minor both flagged in the system on a ticket, and not escorted to and from the guardians, blows my mind. When I worked there, we explicitly informed the FAs and gate agents about UAs. This is unacceptable.
wouldent the airline been hold responsible if anything had happend to her there to?
But the mother said that they hadn't paid the $100 for the unaccompanied minor service, so the girl wouldn't have been flagged in the system. On the other hand, even if she had been accompanied by a parent or guardian, the airline made her unaccompanied when they took her off the plane by herself.
I used to fly alone a lot when i was younger, They make it extremely hard not to pay the "unacompinied minor" fee
Chances are she wasn't registered as a UM. Porter Airlines website shows that it is only optional from 12 to 17yo.
@@Teampegleg I flew alone at 16 & 17 without UM status. Of course that was back before our society infantilized teenagers.
How the cabin crew could remove a child _with or without 'accompaniment'_ is beyond my comprehension
If she was accompanied on the plane, she's no longer accompanied, right?
@@darrennew8211 I would think that the most ordinary question would be "Who is accompanying this child?"
Yeah, like, if they thought she was with family, that's actually *worse*
...because they just took the kid away from her family and stuck her in an airport without even informing the family. Way to go, assholes!
They should and usually have someone with her all the way until she get back on the plane. The fact they don't even know she is a minor was the problem.
Them NOT knowing a person was an unaccompanied minor is the biggest problem. The parents would own the airline if anything had gone wrong.
Knowing you watch these too is pretty cool.
They were fully aware of it being an UM
No they wouldn’t. Her father was minutes away.
IF she were accompanied by her parents/guardian as they claim they thought, they still would've separated her from them! WTF!?
That argument makes NO sense!!!
Good point! Whether they take off a minor or their guardian, they’ve *created* an unaccompanied minor
Coming In 2025
HOME ALONE 5: AIRPORT ALONE
imagine the mom going KEVIN! while flying to France when she realizes her son isn't aboard the plane
Probably yes
What if there are people in the system doing this to try snatching up kids?
It’s Canada. It can’t make sense…
A 14 year old can't even get a hotel "if" she had enough money. This is just crazy!
I would bet my own money that the folks who say "she should have spoken up, it's her own fault if they didn't know" are also the folks who usually say "children should be seen and not heard"…
There's that, there's also the fact that she may not have understood that she was being permanently deplaned rather than being removed so that the calculations about which passengers to move to fix the situation would be easier. Having her on there while rebalancing the plane just makes the situation more complicated to resolve. These planes can be adjusted in terms of the flight computer to accommodate different weight distributions, which makes this odd as she probably could have been moved to the other side and one of the fatter people on the other side moved to her side.
Those people are load of BS. Children don't usually out spoken in a new environment or even in normal environment for some and possible their parents told them not to talk to strangers, have they thought about that? These people were thinking with their adult mind. They have no idea the child could be panicking being abandon in a strange place, not knowing what to do.
Forcing people to pay $100 for a"service" to make sure unaccompanied minors don't get kicked off a plane is extortion. How TF is gov regulation allowing them to get away with that?
It costs the gov money. That's why.
they do not force people. get your facts straight
I recently paid $150 for the service...
@@1954Gregb They literally do when they make it "required to purchase along with any minor ticket for age 8 - 11". Pay attention. 2:15
@@JRKonungrinn
... Touche'!
“PAY US EXTRA OR WE’LL DE-PLANE YOUR KID!!” Does not make for a good look.
You have to pay more because they have to make an employee literally babysit your child for the entire flight, it is literally a babysitter fee. If you don’t pay for the babysitter, then you don’t get the babysitter.
Even if she had been accompanied, they made sure she became unaccompanied. Child endangerment springs to mind. It is reprehensible.
If she had been accompanied, they likely would have chosen someone else, because the accompanying adult would also have to de-plane, and that means losing two fares instead of one.
@@horusfalcon But, it sounds like they weren't particularly clear about what was going on while that was going on, or that she didn't understand what was going on. It can be rather hard to hear what's being said during boarding.
@@SmallSpoonBrigadeit is a kid, so maybe she did not listen, but the attendant should have made 100% sure she knew what was going on.
The "no way to know" line is BS, as if no one is getting off with her, she was either unaccompanied, or is so now.
Either was the flight attendant dropped the ball.
@@horusfalcon So they likely chose her because they thought she was unaccompanied. i.e. they chose an unaccompanied MINOR and didn't even ensure that she would have somewhere to stay or be safe (as far as I can tell). It beggars belief that they were so callous and recklessly negligent. She was kicked off a plane and left to fend for herself. They should have chosen an unaccompanied adult. Even then, they should have made sure that that person was going to be able to cope (e.g. financially).
If it transpires that they knew that the father would be able to rescue her, that dramatically changes the situation.
@@sjmcc13 I tend to agree.
If 80 lbs is enough to satisfy the weight issue, the airline is cutting the saftey margins WAY too close! The fact that they escorted her off of the plane solo, means that they most certainly knew she was at least NOW unescorted by an adult. Child endangerment issues are now in their court ( get it? )
80lbs isn't a lot w/re to MTOW, but it's significant for W&B.
She only weighed 80 lbs? And she was the ONLY passenger deplaned? Are we not getting all the information to judge what happened?
I was gonna say, how big is this girl....
Some 14 year olds can weigh as much or more than an adult. I was a L&D nurse. I cared for teens that weighed 200lbs. or more. But, on average they probably are in the low 100 lb range.
I don't know how much she weighs, but a. she wasn't the only person removed from the flight (there were "several others," according to CBC) and b. looking at her picture, I'd say she weighs a bit more than 80 lbs. These facts do not, however, mitigate the seriousness of the airline's error.
They had to know that she wasn't 18. You need a ID to board. Someone needs to go to jail and the bull crap with the airlines will STOP
THE FAMILY ABANDONED THEIR CHILD IN A DIFFERENT CITY,they should be sent to jail for child neglect, why were the family NOT WILLING TO STAY WITH THEIR OWN CHILD🤨ABUSE of a minor
@@zachall101 Do you thin leave a child at school is Child abandonment. No of course not.
They handed her over to the airlines care the same way parents hand their child into the school care when you drop them of at school.
I'll bet passengers were selected on who the airline thought they could bully the easiest.
I doubt it. They are selected by fare class, not based on how compliant they appear to be.
You right. The easiest to bully
@@msromike123 The poor are easier to bully than the rich. 🤷
@@TheMerlotLine So she was removed because she was poor? Better headline in my opinion because the negligent parents have much less control over her being poor, than the ability to protect her based on her age.
@@msromike123 It dbly was literally that even, bcuz they wanna force ppl to pay for unaccompanied minor insurance - which is ludicrous
Who cares about what "plan" the child is under?! They are a minor, and that warrants a certain level of care, especially when a guardian is not present. This is pure negligence, period.
Yes, would it have been that hard to just have the FA say that they were looking for adults to deplane to address the situation? And if it came down to forcing somebody off, indicating that it was just adults that would be deplaned and to tell the flight crew if they accidentally chose a minor? I don't know how often this has happened in the past, so this might be a novel situation where the flight crew didn't know, but it's still a bad look and something that shouldn't be blamed on the girl or her parents.
Nope. The parents decided she was mature enough to fly alone, which makes her an adult for the purposes of the trip.
@@SmallSpoonBrigadeThere are explicit rules and law about this in Canada. The airline did nothing wrong, they were in compliance with the law.
@@Tugela60 Nope. your wrong.
Wrong @@Tugela60youre misinformed
Imagine being forced to buy "insurance" so an airline doesn't abuse your kid. Like leaving him alone in a strange city. Unacceptable.
I was on a short flight from Chicago to Dayton in an 24 seat turbo prop. When we got on the plane, we found that all ten of us were ticketed for the right side of the plane. Literally, no one was on the left side of the plane. The captain came around and told us to spread ourselves out around the plane to "distribute the weight". When he came back to check, he gave us a thumbs up. Each of us had our own row in the plane.
When my son flew, the unaccompanied minor service was to escort the child to the gate, not to ensure keeping their seat. That’s complete bs
Where I was raised, selling things you don't have (such as seats on a plane in case ppl don't show up) is called a scam.
Movie theaters can't sell seats they don't have, regardless of paying customers showing up.
Water parks can't sell cabanas they don't have, regardless of paying customers showing up.
Why do airlines get to sell seats they don't have? Just in case paying customers don't show up.
It's a weight imbalance. if too many fat people get on you have a problem. We can't fix this as a society until we accept what looks like fat shaming on ticket purchase. Too bad.
Why? Because they have more lobbyists than you could ever imagine. 🤨
People hate financial markets. Even many traders don't really understand why they're good.
They have the seats, they just need empty ones because there is too much luggage on the plane resulting in a weight imbalance.
When you buy a cheap plane ticket, you are inherently also selling a "call" option.
No, the staff the knew and it would be all over her ticket. I work for an airline…the staff knew. The US airline that I work for requires unaccompanied minor service is required for kids 14 and under. 15 and over are considered young person traveling alone. That has its own issues when traveling with a connection. But no, the crew would be able to look at her ticket and know. That airline excuse is not the reason. And that airline owes her money.
Now, parents who have kids who aren’t purchasing unaccompanied minor because the teen is 15 and traveling are told by me when I book their flight, “don’t put your 15 years old child on the last connecting flight of the night because a hotel won’t let anyone under the age of 21 get a hotel. This isn’t the airline’s policy it is the hotels’ policy.” And her father in the US would have been allowed to get a pass to get thru TSA and wait with her at the gate until that plane is in the air.
Canada’s airlines not similar… don’t get me started.
Thanks. I was thinking the same. There is no way the airline employees did not know.
They pushed off the kid because they wouldn’t argue and resist as much. If 80lbs really made a difference then they had pushed the safety margins to the absolute limit. This is foul and pisses me off. Hope the parents sue the airline for endangering the child. If this was my child then I would tell the airline that I would drop the lawsuit if the person who made the decision give me an apology in person….but they would be sorry on my terms and would leaving the encounter needing emergency dental work and I’d be on the way to jail. That person would never do that to another child so it would be worth the assault charge because For the rest of their lives whenever they ate an apple or a steak they would remember my child and what they did.
You assume a teen can weigh more than adults which is so far off from reality.
Im middle aged and I see kids on a daily basis that weigh 3-4× more than me.
But it is a teen so it shouldn't ever have happened
The airliner burned more fuel than she weights, just taxiing to the runway.
Not pushing the safety limits. It's entirely possible the safety limits are something like "two extra hours of fuel," and her weight made it "1:58 extra hours of fuel." There's no reason to believe it would have been disastrous to fly with the extra weight.
Isn't that extortion? Forcing people to pay extra to prevent kids from deplaned. Who is this airline? They should be sued.
Its so absurd, its literally Unacompanied Minor insurance; like ya mite get for your bags to make sure ya get paid if they get lost on the way...........
It is an extra service. They have an employee escort you throughout the airport and stay with you until you are onboard and handed off to the FA. For longer layovers they will often have a play area. There is no reason the airline should have to bear the burden of that cost.
@@Teampegleg Unaccompanied Minor Insurance shudnt exist 9,9 They arent checked bags!
@@SylviaRustyFae It isn't insurance, it a a service. From the moment you hand over custody of your child the airline, the agent will walk the child to their seat and hand over responsibility to the head FA. That head FA will ensure that the child is supervised throughout the flight, with a FA checking on the child often and holding them onboard until an agent can take custody of the child. If there is a layover the agent will walk your child to their next gate and stay with them, or if it is a longer layover at a hub there is often a play area. And the destination the agent will then make sure that the child is handed off to the responsible party at the destination.
It is only reasonable that the parents pay the cost for that service. You want full service airlines you need to pay full service prices.
@@Teampegleg Then why is it a hidden fee? If they don't want to pay out of their billions to escort minors then why is this not included when booking the tickets? They want ALL your information when booking so you are telling that they can't have a check box that says unaccompanied minor that automatically adds the fee onto the ticket price? RIGHT... SMH... Just sounds like another penny they are squeezing out of people and if those people DON'T know about it well they are shit out of luck then when their kid is abandoned at the airport. Seems like they waited to send her ALONE till they thought she was old enough to go ALONE so they never had to deal with this hidden fee that you only know or are told about if it is the mandatory ages. Them coming back with "well they didn't pay extra for us to watch her so we don't care" is a shaky leg to stand on when that minor is effectively in their care even if they payed the extra or not. They DON'T have to "burden the cost" you are right but they WILL have to burden the cost of this lawsuit because of their own incompetence in their system that can't flag a CHILD as such unless they pay more... Even if she WAS with an adult their system didn't even flag her age so they could look for a parent till they deboarded her? THAT is what is going to win a lawsuit for the family. (families can't always sit together what if her parent was on the flight, didn't see them take her off, and then took off in a flight without their kid on board?)
Just like police, the bulk of the costs is spent on lawsuits for doing stupid or illegal things.
The difference is the taxpayers pay for most of the police/public official misconduct
@@c308682 almost would think passengers pay via their tickets for airline costs
@@c308682 So what, the burden of this kind of screw up is paid by the taxpayers in the form of airline bailouts or by the ticket purchasers in the form of higher prices. This should be paid for by the staff that screwed up as they have clearly demonstrated that they are not competent to work as an FA. FAs are primarily there for passenger safety in a emergency and this demonstrates a complete failure in terms of passenger safety.
Except that the regulations changed, 14 - 17 is now optional and coverage has to be purchased.
Deregulation is a good thing! Leaves kids abandoned in airports, which is good or something.
Unlike the Police, Someone will actually be held accountable, to ensure this doesn't keep happening...
The plane wasn't overweight. The airline overbooked the plane. They removed her because the higher paying customer had priority.
My husband and I spent 23 hours waiting for our plane to leave Detroit for Florida. We were repeatedly told it was "just delayed" and would be there soon. Then moved us several times to different gates. They didn't cancel it and we were told we would be the first flight out in the morning. When morning came they decided it was canceled and tried to fill that plane with the folks who had the tickets to it and had close to 200 people almost riot. Cops and the press were everywhere so they decided that they couldn't arrest everyone and let us on the plane. They also gave people free tickets to use in the future. The other people then had to wait for another, empty plane to come. They were also given free tickets.
Some say the airline is still delayin the passengers and givin out free tickets to this day, as a new planes worth of ppl keep gettin stuck for lack of proper plannin by the airport; after the prior group gets out
That can't be profitable.
@@SylviaRustyFae Wouldn't doubt it. It's been 14 years since it happened. LOL
US government mandates that canceled flights are compensated with tickets of value 3 times the price of the original ticket, if memory serves.
Had the same thing happen with a flight out of Indianapolis. They delayed and "lied" until late, my guess is to keep people from rebooking on another airline. I won't tell you the airlines name but it states with "U" and the word means together, but definitely not in this case. They created another flight number (probably to keep the system from showing the flight as late) and the next day we were told a particular time and then again it was hours late because the crew was coming in on another flight and it was late.
I was 12, flying alone, on Continental. Newark to South Florida.
The flight was delayed 3 times before they canceled it.
The look of the ticket attendants faces when I told them I was 12 and flying alone was priceless.
They assigned a chaperone, put us up in a hotel, late dinner, breakfast the next morning, and on the first flight to my destination.
You have to empower kids to speak up.
.
Where's Kevin? KEVIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's a detail that a lot of folks are missing, even if she did understand that she wouldn't be getting back on the plane when she left, which it sounds like wasn't clear, she may not have felt comfortable telling a FA that and then dealing with the awkwardness of the reactions from other passengers.
@@jimkofron8638
Not the Kevin from the story, but yeah.
My little brother and I used to fly alone yearly to go skiing. Many years ago I was 9ish, he was 7ish. Back then, a nice stewardess would walk us to our seats, maybe let us meet the captain, give us those continental "wing pins". It was great. Fast forward 40 years, I wouldn't even dream of letting my kids do the same.
I flew all my life, been through O Hare' ~11 years old. So, they would kick off a kid without notifying the possible parent on the plane? My dad used to buy the cheapest tickets with 4-5 hour layovers with airline changes all the way across the airports. That was back in the 60's-70's. I am in AWE now-days, they don't have clocks or signs anymore, must be an AP that everyone knows where they are going.
Most kids are punished for asking too many questions, or questioning adults. You're supposed to sit down, shut up, and do as you're told.
And we now have generations of dummies. Not their fault. We are reaping what we have sown
Her age was definitely on her reservation, they just F'd up.
I was thinking the same thing because I seem to remember putting in my birthday whenever I book a flight. I have one coming up next week so I looked at my reservation and my age isn't on there. It's on other documents that are part of my trip but not my flight reservation. It's still not an excuse because 99/9% of the time you can tell when someone is 14 years old and going forward it should be required, especially if they are under 18.
No, they chose the least likely passenger to advocate for themselves. Lowest hanging fruit and all that.
@@silkvelvet2616 Yes our culture, especially corporate and government, is to prey on the weak
Checking porters booking now date of birth is a required field.
And ID to board.
Plus she woukd have been the only passenger on the booking. (Families normally book together)
On some airlines I buy the 65 senior fare, no were on the ticket does show my age.
Airlines should know this! Once our family was returning from HNL (Honolulu), and despite the child being BETWEEN two adults, the airline cancelled the flight, sent the child to LAX, and the adults to PHX! The initial flight was nonstop. We rebooked to the next day, and filed a claim!
yeah, they don't really pay attention to such things. I was once flying from Victoria to Toronto on AirCanada, and the computer tried to book my 6-year-old into a seat at the opposite end of the airplane. Luckilly, their staff were not dumb enough to argue with me when I told them to fix it.
Were the tickets on the same booking, or at least linked? If some tickets were bought with frequent flyer points, but there weren't enough points for the entire family, so another ticket was purchased with cash, the airline may not have known that the tickets were related. Generally, they will not split a reservation unless you ask them to. They probably could have swapped one of the adults with the child, which would have gotten everyone home sooner, but probably there wasn't enough time to make the change between the cancellation and the next flight option.
As a former Pan Am Airline employee, every time I get bumped off a flight, I always get free airfare, hotel stay, money for food, money for clothing, money for transportation, etc. Life is good when you know your rights.
In the civilized world maybe. In the US, where corporations run the show? Unlikely.
And you are an adult but still can't comprehend this scenario from a child's point of view and that makes you a danger to all children
My parents recently flew back to the states to vist family (we moved to Europe) and the American Airline they used canceled their flight last minute then tried to play dumb about Mom and Dad's rights. Amazing how has their tunes changed when my sister copy pasted the relevant laws into an email (easier to to have her do it from a computer than on Mom or Dad's phones).
They are banking on you not looking it up.
@@absurdengineeringyou obviously don’t know your rights. Yes in the U.S. being bumped, and lost or delayed luggage is entitled to comp. Up to 400% of fares for being bumped and up to 3800 for lost or delayed luggage.
I'm amazed the airline admitted in a public statement that they didn't know she was 14.... Just straight up negligence.
I don't know...14 couldn't possibly be an minor smh
It was an admission of guilt! They are required to know when they board an unaccompanied minor, and saying they didn't know means they are not complying with the law! The FAA needs to investigate this. Call your local FSDO! I am!
@@willmeredith8765 It was in Canada, no FAA or FSDO
@@dmitripogosian5084 Essentially yes, although it can get tricky if any part of the flight does fly over US airspace. There's no visas required as long as the flight doesn't land in the US, however, things like the no fly list do still apply just for entering US airspace.
Or just outright incompetence.
If the weight of a 14 year old girl, is going to make difference if the plane fly's or not, then the airline got way more problems
Depends on the plane, some are just "puddle jumpers"
She wasn't the one one deplaned
Believe it or not, 80 lbs will crash even the largest aircraft. There's a saying in transportation--"Rules are written in blood"..... and strict adherence to weight limits is one of those rules......
@@glee21012 Trans-Canada flight Think Detroit to Seattle, Atlanta to Salt Lake City: like that.
@@RMSTitanicWSL. So why not remove the biggest and heaviest passenger?
So... an airline considers someone an adult at 12? This sounds like some child trafficking bs.
Kicking an unaccompanied minor off a plane for a reason like this should be illegal.
Yeah they should’ve kicked off an adult - not a child. I get the weight imbalance, at some point airlines are likely going to have to begin weighing passengers but I don’t get why you’d choose a teenager, you’d go for an adult never anyone that’s a minor
You realize having an overweight plane can cause an accident right? Sometimes you've got to make the hard call for the safety of others.
@@nickwinn Then boot an adult off. It'll suck for them, but they can handle it and they weigh more than a 14yo girl.
Why?
@@nickwinn Then kick off an adult.... duh!
Absolute incompetence on the part of the airline. If that happened to my daughter, I would be absolutely livid.
I have an underage daughter, and be absolutely angry.
not incompetence. think a dozen tons plane will spin out of control by the weight of a 14 yo girl? then some heavier person might crash the plane by leaving a window seat to go to the toilet. this wsn't incompetence, this was premeditated evil
@@thecursed01 Definitely a made-up excuse to have her pulled off the plane.
Right there with ya. I'd want to know who the principals were who made this decision, how they determined she was the cause of the imbalance (as opposed to the 450 pound Sumo Wrestler flying first class), and I would definitely be speaking with counsel about it at the very least if the airline did not make things right.
You sound pretty livid already, how much more livid can you get.
Now see, If I went & dropped my 14 yr old kid off in a random town & left, I'd be arrested & jailed for child neglect but somehow the people who have agreed to be responsible for my kid (& yes if you are selling tickets to minors without their parents having to also fly, you are agreeing) can freely do so without consequences. Complete bull.
She was probably the easiest target to bully it's sad and unacceptable.
Or employees aren't given any agency* to question / challenge "the algorithm" they use to decide these things
*or are punished
FACTS!
You should never ever fly a plane that close to its weight and balance limits that you would have to kick someone who weighs 80 lbs off. We try to keep our planes under 33% MAC but our actual safe to fly limit is 37%. It would take thousands of pounds to get there and a lot of miscalculation. Unacceptable.
Agree - if they got to their W&B y just taking her then there are serious issues
My thoughts,also. 🤬
Except that isn't how it works. If you are in the industry then you should know that the FAA requires you to use 190lbs for passenger weight for W&B purposes.
My husband and I flew on Command Airways once when they weighed each passenger while holding carry-ons, purses, etc. I was bringing two or three magazines to read on the plane. They came through the line and took items away from passengers. They took my magazines.
I looked it up, and she was not the only passenger deplaned. which only means she wasn't singled out - they still scheduled too much weight for the plane.
If that happened to me at 14, my anxiety would have been off the charts. Probably would have had a panic attack.
I've been using commercial flights for better than a half-century, and this is the first time I ever hear of removing someone because of a "weight imbalance." Sounds like a crock to me, particularly when it's the weight of one 14-year-old girl.
I looked it up, and there were multiple passengers deplaned.
Was thinking the same thing. Only time I have seen a weight imbalance was a half full flight, and they had to distribute people to sit move evenly.
I would have said its ok I'll move to a seat in the middle of the aircraft. Absolute nonsense.
Do you know how to calculate the W&B of an aircraft?
Would it surprise you that a 50 Kg person in the last row has far more effect than a 150 Kg person sitting over the wing?
If you don't fly on planes with fewer than 30 seats, it's not something you would run into.
I traveled by myself across country at the age of 16 (I probably looked like I was 14 to an adult). There was a change of planes in the Twin City's. My flight ended up at the wrong gate and the airline staff didn't know I had another fight down another concourse. Running in the skirt and heals my grandmother made me wear, I ran to my next flight. The gate attendant had just closed the doors. She decided to walk back down with me to see if the pilot would open the door again. They were pushing the plane back and the pilot saw me (tears in my eyes) stopped the plane and moved forward to open the door. I gratefully hopped across the gap and took an isle seat available. What was amazing we landed at my home airport ontime and my luggage was there. I wish that airlines cared about their clients more like they seemed to back in the 80's.
I suspect they are literally not allowed to do that anymore. Post-9/11, rules were put into place on all sorts of things on the logic that theoretically a 14 year old child or 90 year old woman might be a terrorist concealing a bomb.
Today they would not be allowed to fly if your luggage was on the plane and you where not.
@@jonathanbuzzard1376 Yeah, sadly it took the Air India and Lockerbie incidents to teach airlines that. That said, if they supposedly no longer do that, how are they supposed to get your lost/misdirected baggage back to you?
@@hotlavatube I guess the notion is that it is lost luggage and the chances of a bomb being in lost luggage is very remote. Perhaps they give it extra scrutiny before it get loaded? I have been on planes where people's luggage was removed because they where not on the plane.
Reminds me of a time I was flying from Cincinnati to San Jose. A woman sitting near me who had show dogs in her luggage was quite distraught because no one knew where her dogs were. Apparently they were getting a tour of the airport via luggage carts. The captain came over and told the woman that she too was a dog lover and she was NOT going to release the brakes on the aircraft until the dogs were found and put aboard. The dogs arrived just in time, as the captain was about to be ordered to depart because another plane needed the gate. I saw the dogs in their crates at baggage claim in San Jose.
All the adults on that plane who sat by and watched them drag a kid off the plane, without offering themselves instead? Shame on each and every one of them.
That's just BS. They didn't bother to ask her where her parents were before they booted her off the plane? I used to live in Mt. Clemons and I flew numerous times out of the Detroit Airport. Once on a flight out I had a very young boy (probably between 10 and 12) ask me to use my phone so he could call his dad. I gave him my phone to use but I looked around and I didn't see any adults that the boy was with. I asked him if he was alone, and he said yes. I didn't think that was right, but I kept an eye on him till he boarded his plane. In California, I've taken a little girl to the airport (she was six at the time) and I had to check her into the airline where an attendant took charge of her to ensure she was passed over to a flight attendant on her flight. This happened again when I picked her up. One of the flight attendants turned her over to a ground agent who kept control of her till I could pick her up. I went through this process again a few months later when she flew out to see her grandparents. I thought this was the normal way that children traveled safely, but I was quite surprised to see that this was not the case with the young boy.
Total lack of common sense on their part. They are so lucky the dad was able to return. Good grief
Likely computerized decision, and crew didn't care or would get reprimanded for speaking up.
How the hell could the adult passengers sit and watch this happen? Pretty sad.
Thanks again Steve.
They may not have realized what was happening. If she was sitting there and they asked her to come with them, other passengers would have no idea what they were doing. Sometimes people get moved around on a plane for various reasons.
No airline should EVER be removing an unaccompanied minor except by request of the parents. Period. If these are not policies across the board, they should be by yesterday.
Okay, the parents didn't buy the special ticket for extra supervision, and some kids are pretty good at getting around on their own, but this should flagged under minimum care stardard for minors maybe disabled passengers too. Isn't age and disabilities asked when booking?
Because no 14 year old should be on a plane unaccompanied to begin with. Kids nowadays are so stupid and crazy they always create problems.
Exactly and they should have known.
I've seen stewardesses ask for ID on flights to make sure if it is legal to serve alcohol to a specific person.
This is a very strange story as she was either unaccompanied, or they removed her from the flight, but left her parents on the flight?
@@xcalibertrekker6693 I have never seen a case where an unaccompanied child has been causing problems on a flight. Most of them are just trying to get to where they need to go and are likely nervous without a parent to the point of being completely walled up and silent. Not saying it hasn't happened in some cases, but your overgeneralization of how kids act is unfair and without evidence. It also has nothing to do with this scenario. They were not removed for being unruly. They were removed because they were an easy target by the airline and it never should have happened. That kid has zero knowledge of how to rebook a flight and isn't going to be able to communicate with whomever is picking them up of the new flight arrival time, where their luggage is, etc.
I’m sure you’ll see a stern letter of apology,if for nothing else to have the airline cover its a$$ from the sht storms approaching.
Charge the people that removed her with child endangerment
What for, taking proper safety precautions.
@@xcalibertrekker6693if the plane can't fly because of a 90 lb kid it has other more serious problems.
Yeah she's a teenager so that's not going to happen, that's why they Unaccompanied Minor thing was optional.
@@Voyajer. Their age means nothing to me if they can't handle any potential problems they shouldn't be there. I don't care about your safety just the money I get from you buying tickets. If you dont like it dont send kids.
@@Voyajer. Hate to tell you, but she wasn't the only one to be deplaned
Everyone should look around at why they're outraged that a child was deplaned but not outraged that Carly Gregg is currently on trial. Are 14 year olds children that know better or not?
The airline asked for volunteers but none came forward.
It seems "asking for volunteers" didn't include monetary compensation.
In the us all involuntary deplaning entitles you to compensation... I can't imagine it's all that different in Canada. If they are going by "fare selection" There might be fine print somewhere to negate this, but I still suspect they picked someone by trying to pick someone demure in the hopes they'd not demand the entitled compensation. It backfired here though
I've never seen the big airlines not offer some compensation, but I have seen it be like 50 dollars, which probably isn't enough to book a hotel room. Wonder what airline this was?
@@professorhaystacks6606
This was Porter airlines
It does include monetary compensation for volunteers under Canadian law
@@professorhaystacks6606 I got offered to bump to the next flight once. The compensation was free round trip ticket to anywhere in the us. I was going to take it until they told me the next flight was not for 9 hours.
Twenty years ago, my 15 year old daughter flew unaccompanied from Dallas to Phoenix. I don't recall if I paid extra for it, but at check-in she was given a lanyard to wear that identified her as an unaccompanied minor, and she was seated in a location that allowed the flight attendants to more easily monitor her security. Upon her arrival at Sky Harbor, an airline representative had to stay with her until she was handed off to me, and I had to identify myself as the person authorized to receive her. I think she flew American Airlines. I'm surprised that this isn't a standard requirement now.
Apparently, the unaccompanied minor ticket (for an extra fee) is optional for anyone 12-17
My husband was good friends with a VP of American Airlines in the 1990s. He listened in on the story and laughed when I read your comment. He said "[The VP] would have been asking questions and then the Airport Manager would have gotten involved if they did that then". The VP travelled 6 days per week and often saw a lot of "things". And he agrees with some of the other posters the airport personnel are not doing their jobs (I cleaned up his language) and just duck responsibility.
There is simply no way that deplaning one 14 yr old girl would bring a plane into center balance given they chose her not based on her seat position on the aircraft, but, based on her fare cost.
Right? If the plane is overweight, you walk down the aisle and remove the largest person on the plane.
@@MistImp1
What some are missing is that there are two different things likely being discussed; weight imbalance in the plane and a plane that is over weight limitations.
With imbalance, think surfing where you have to keep a center balance with your weight. The plane may be front or rear heavy causing passengers to be moved to new seats to equal out the center weight.
With overweight, each passenger is given a standard weight, then you have fuel and cargo, all added together for a final weight that cannot exceed X amount.
The airline forced this girl, along with some other passengers supposedly, off the plane based on fare cost not where they sat. That means the plane was overweight due to cargo, not that there was a weight imbalance.
The airline is trying to play smoke and mirrors for the fact they kicked a 14 girl off the plane due to financial considerations (cargo over low fare passenger)
Laziness and playing stupid to avoid accountability has become a huge problem. So many people now will do things devoid of decency because they want to think they're overworked and underpaid, even if that's far from the truth.
The simple fact is that unless you're in at least middle management you're underpaid. Maybe not overworked, but "COLA" raises and merit raises are not and have not met inflation for years.
Are they, though...? %99 of them prob have 100K in unsecured debt, each...
Whether or not they are, my point is that so many people nowadays, from fast food to fortune 500 are getting away with things that not long ago would have gotten them fired and caused a "don't be like them" meeting. Everyone's been conditioned to act like being expected to think for themselves and do their jobs properly is harassment.
They used authority to get a weak invidual out of the plane in order to avoid bribing the defaulted passenger.
Your Detroit story reminded me about the flight when we got the very last plane out of Barcelona when Spanish and French air controllers started striking. Due to all the delays, we arrived to ABSOLUTELY PITCH BLACK Arlanda airport in the wee hours. Yes, the damn thing was closed and almost airplane full of internaltionally continuing passengers stucked there. In the dark, wishing to have a flashlight, at least. I managed to find a very annoyed guard two stairs down in a secret room below the stairs (at least it did not have 'Beware of the Leopard' sign).
Back in the 1970's as an 11 year old I used to fly internationally on Pan Am, Braniff, Varig and some other regional airlines by myself. The FA, counter personnel knew that I was flying alone and someone always made sure that I was handled over to the next airline, and although I knew how to navigate between terminals, etc they always did a proper hand over between airlines. This happened every time I traveled as a minor. No one dropped me off or picked me up at the airports. I took a taxi to and from my house. I loved that because it made me grow up and become more self confident as an individual.
Greed is one of the few things that can't be fixed without legislation.
Problem - the legislators are just as greedy
Unfortunately, greed can't even be fixed BY legislation!
You misunderstand how legislation works. Legislation is much more likely to guarantee greed is mandated by law than it is to reduce it. Companies pay kickbacks to the politicians to guarantee this outcome. That's what the climate agenda is all about.
@@willmeredith8765 Yes, but tax policies can remove a lot of the incentive to engage in greedy actions.
I know exactly how legislation works, it's always stacked against someone or something. Until we can curtail the reprobates on K Street we're screwed. Otherwise it's money talks and you know the rest.
At 14 I’d have been that kid who went quiet, having been raised not to question orders from adults. Yes, I was timid and naive.
Excuse me little girl, you have been deemed to be excess baggage. "Get off my plane."
almost 22 years working at a major airport here, mostly dealing with cargo planes. there is a 0% chance that a 14 year old girl would be the source of any issues for the aircraft, even if she was jumping up and down on either end of the plane.
TBH, that's where I get very confused about this being a balance issue. Modern jets can be programmed to account for the weight distribution of the people in the cabin before taking off. As long as significant numbers of people aren't moving around the cabin, that doesn't cause problems. Adjustments can be made in flight if the plane seems to be drifting to the side as well.
If it's a lot of people being deplaned for this, that's just strange. It's also strange that they didn't just announce that they were just going to select adults and entire families to address the problem so she could object. It sounds like it wasn't clear to her if she would be getting back on the plane after the distribution issue had been addressed.
Oh HELL NO. As a parent, I would sue every single airline employee and the airline for child endangerment. I have had a child fly unaccompanied many times. They are legally responsible. That is absolutely unacceptable 😡
I had to read the title 4 times before I understood it properly.😂 "How does one kick a 14 year old off a plane if they are flying it alone?"
😁
I thought the same thing then looked up the regs: you have to be 16 to solo an aircraft in the U.S. and Canada. She can only fly around with an instructor 🤣
The terms ignorance and stupidity leap to mind.
It took my brain a couple of seconds to go through a set of horrifying scenarios before I figured it out.😮
@@machintelligence In my case, they sort of skip unconfidently.
Why in world would a 14 year old be kicked off the plane for the plane being overweight. Should have removed an overweight adult. The airline definitely is at fault and definitely should be held accountable.
Because the weight and balance sheets assume e.g. 200 standard passengers at 190 lbs each. And common sense be damned, the plane needs to be balanced "on paper" to keep the FAA happy.
@@princekamoro3869
Oops, this plane was in Canada. The FAA is only a US agency. It is the Federal Aviation Association
Nothing Canadian about it. Duh!
@@jcboom6894
Okay, to keep the TCCA happy.
🙄
Oh my God the girl could have been taken or worse, yet the airline was only concerned about their bottom line. Disgusting.
The airline was concerned with everybody showing up at the other end intact. Fuckups in aviation kill people in large batches.
They chose her because they knew she wouldn't give them a hard time, and they knew they could get her off without having to offer any incentives.
Her parents should sue and make it cost them far more than doing the right thing™.
Yup, and watch in court the lawyers for the airline will argue, "She agreed to voluntarily give up her seat. We expect the court to honor the choice the 14 year old made."
Wrong.
Sue for what? Her parents should have purchased their child a better seat! This is on the parents.
@@wolfmantroy6601CTA dictates that an overnight delay must be offered accommodation at a lodging within reasonable distance from the airport and provided with transportation to and from, if they failed to offer her the mandated minimal accomidations they could be sued
A little girl can unbalance a whole plane? Sounds like an unsafe airline!
Not every plane is 737, some only have two turbo props and are quite small. Read a book or google before you comment.
She wasn't the only one deplaned
A little girl can unbalance or overload a 747 or A380. There's far more margin for error than a smaller plane, but it is possible.
Yes, a teenager can unbalance a plane. It's not about the airline being safe or unsafe, it's about the laws of physics w/re to aviation.
No child traveling alone should never be deplaned. That “service” offered is just a way to get $ from parents. No one in their right mind would deplane a little kid.
Perfect T-shirt for this story.
Just so randomly appropriate
😂OMG I was scrolling for this... How funny Steve was unsupervised!!!
The fact that they stated that they didn't know she was unaccompanied makes no sense. Are they saying that they knew she was accompanied but kicker her off while letting her parent say on the flight?
She was flying alone. Her father dropped her off at the airport.
My understanding is that unaccompanied minors are supposed to be kept track of? Like I'm pretty sure the flight attendants are supposed to keep track of them, for the minors safety!
@@jonmoceri You missed the point.
@@jonmoceri The airline's claim is - they didn't know she was "unaccompanied." That would mean the airline purposely separated a young teen from a parent or guardian who was still on board ( ie "accompanied" by an adult who they thought was somewhere on board).
@@ae2948that is certainly a weird excuse. Goes from negligence to essentially kidnapping.
My 15 year old daughter and stepdaughter with the do not bump tickets got bumped in LA and shut into a preschool room. They were told when they were getting on the connecting flight so since they had time they left the airport took the transit bus to a store catering to their clothing and shopped. I had to buy their “overspending” by card and talked to them. They took the bus back and were waiting at the gate when the airline called in a panic because they lost our daughters, wonderful negotiation point. They got another free ride to Hawaii and this trip reimbursed with an unlimited time on the tickets.the “kids” were fine and got an afternoon to roam LA and their graduation from high school trip because of a ticket over site.
When you get beaten up by the media for kicking off the overweight passenger, it becomes the lesser of evils to kick off a child.
This
Not true. They have an unaccompanied minor that they are just abandoning in the airport. This is unacceptable as the child could have been kidnapped or otherwise harmed due directly to the negligence of this airline. Steve, I also have a problem with the story that you related about an underage girl getting stranded. The FAs should have escorted her when everyone was deplaned. I have traveled many times as an unaccompanied minor and they made sure that I was escorted even when making connections during my trip. The obvious question is if this girl looked young they should have asked for her age prior to removing her from the plane.
@@debbyconnor9498 most airline make you pay for UM status.
Do they actually, though?
No matter your politics, I'm pretty sure fat acceptance goes out the window when you're seated next to someone taking up half of your seat in addition to their own.
There's no excuse for that in my opinion, my mom was big and never had qualms about accepting it, she fought her weight all her life, she was 82 when she died, still struggling but not complaining.
It's no longer a matter of customer "service". Today, it's all about customer "servitude".
Well, service is also a verb for when a male farm animal engages in an activity designed to make female farm animals create young farm animals.
As a pilot…it’s not Weight imbalance…it was “Weight & Balance”
So, if the, "weight & balance" is off, isn't that a _weight imbalance?_
I do not think it is about the rules and policies of the airline. Leaving a 14 year girl unattended seems like an unlawful act to me. The airline took "custody" by taking her on the plane and left her alone afterwards. How can that be lawful? To wit: "Steve, what if someone ask you to temporarily take care of a 14 year old and you put her on the street because your policies indicated that. Is that a real defense?" Policy over Law?
If *one* 14-year-old girl's weight is the difference between a safe flight and a dangerous one, I don't want to be on that plane. They're *way* too close to the limits with zero margins.
There were other people kicked off. The issue here is that they shouldn't be deplaning teens just because they didn't pay to be chaperoned for the trip.
The CEO deserves to be charged with child endangerment. Accountability starts at the top.
Well, if she wasn't unaccompanied before they took her of the plane, she certainly was after.
So you are saying the adults that accompany minors are completely negligent and legally incompetent to act as guardians?
"Oh gee they just took my kid away, aw well I'm sure it will be fine. I don't want to be a bother asking asking what they are doing."
@@TheDuckofDoom. I think he is pointing out the absolute illogic of saying we didn't know she was unaccompanied when we threw her off, because if she hadn't been unaccompanied before their actions would cause her to be. The very fact that no adult spoke up also makes it pretty clear she was unaccompanied.
@@TheDuckofDoom. What's point are you even trying to make?
"The woman boarded"
No the girl, the female child, boarded the plane
Thank you. I noticed it when it was said but didn't stop and comment right THEN and forgot. Nice catch!
BS to the airline employees- that shows they don’t know their job! They should get fired!
What is the word I am looking for, oh yeah - BULLSHIT! They knew what they were doing and did not give a damn. Please CAA get 'em!
I was offered 400 to fly 2 days later. I didn't mind cause I was staying at my brother's house. 2 people didn't show and I made the flight. I'm 48 and it wasn't a problem. She is 14 and shouldn't have to make a choice.
They also force you to do this kind of thing all the time no matter how badly you need to get to a location. Remember the doctor that was assaulted because it was the airline's right to remove him with force simply because he wouldn't get up?
If she even had the wherewithal to know that!
They shouldn't have to buy a "plan" to ensure a minor doesn't get kicked off the plane. the airlines shouldn't be allowed to kick off any minor off the plane, accompanied or not.
On a flight from Roswell (NM) to Albuquerque once I was told to trade seats with another person (I'm a big boy) for balance purposes. They moved me closer to the aircraft center of gravity.
As an aerospace engineer, I understood the issue. It made the guy in the next seat really nervous
Was that back during the Airways (Scareways) of New Mexico days?
I had a blast when flying from El Paso in co pilot seat as a young Airman.
@@scottzehrung4829 - sounds like Air Suredeath (Midwest) or Mesa. 🤣😂😅
I'm curious if the aircraft was a jetliner, cummuter jet or something smaller.
@@joefunsmith twin Beechcraft King Air turboprop. I am not sure of which airline, but I think it was one of the United commuter bunch
@@rogerguinn4619 Yes, we had to load our luggage onto scales followed by ourselves. Carried our luggage onto tarmac and then placed inside the lines next to the aircraft. It was just the pilot and myself on one flight (1985). We followed the 54 freeway up to Alamo-White Sands Regional.
AA stranded thousands in the Dallas airport (me included) back at the end of May. Flew me in knowing all their flights were delayed and/or canceled due to weather. Saw a young girl there in the same boat😢 I have never had such a bad experience flying and trying to get reimbursed for all my costs just trying to get back home. When I finally got AA' s reimbursement, they deducted my flight to Dallas because they said they got me there. Absolute trash! 😡
Airline says, " We didn't know she was an unaccompanied minor." They thought she was a minor flying with her family?
Remove an 80 lb little girl instead of a 350 lb person do to a weight problem. Which one would be better to remove?
The one who paid less it seems
Exactly what I was thinking.
Depends, On a 767 flight I was on, Captain made a announcement,bunch of 1st Class and Business class passengers were moved to economy seating. Last moment Ad-hoc Freight in the Cargo hold up front is may profitable than passengers. Airline business has very low returns in the grand scheme of things; better returns in car repair or restaurant business.
This can happen. And they might move people around for proper balance on small crafts
@@DavidSchemmel I understand moving around to balance the plane. Never heard of someone getting kicked off because of weight.
I've never been more exhausted than the week I spent at Chicago International one weekend.
Pilot In Command criminally guilty of child endangerment. They are the final authority on who gets kicked off the plane the moment they walk thru the door.
Unless the plane was over max weight, I don't see why she couldn't have just switched seats with Mr. BeerBelly Joe on the other side of the plane.
they removed multiple passengers. I looked it up.
On a 100,000 lb aircraft 100lbs (or much less) gets lost in the noise. (Might change the CG by 1/500 of an inch)
@@garymartin6987 No, it doesn't. I'd love to know how you came up with that .002 figure.
You can look at a 14 year old and see they are not an adult. I've flown back in the 80's as an unaccompanied minor from Seattle to Tokyo. and a couple of times in the 90's my boys flew from San Francisco to Chicago as unaccompanied minors. Thankfully we never had problems. This makes me sick.
My friends flew from Pennsylvania to California every year by themselves to see their father. I don't remember any horror stories and they were in middle school.
Usually, yes. I knew a couple of girls that looked like they were 23 when they were 14.
@@phlodeli knew of maybe 2 guys who in middle school also could pass for an adult. Both were absolutely massive. Both over 6 feet, maybe 6’3 and both a bit on the heavy side. One could pass for a middle aged adult. The other could pass off for a young college adult.
Lmao, not all 14yos look like kids. At that age my friends kid was 6' 4" with a mustache, and looked nothing like a kid.
I say this as a 26 year old who has routinely been confused as a high schooler. Sometimes you just can't tell how old someone is. I hate growing out my beard. But at least people guess early 20s when I do.
This is absolutely crazy! As a mother of two children that often flew between New Zealand and Australia, I am appalled! The service here is much better - we never had to pay more for this and the airline staff were very well aware that they were unaccompanied minors and my children were well looked after.
Per Porter Airline's own website - they had to know, as she boarded, that she was unaccompanied. They "will be escorted to the aircraft ahead of other passengers and will be greeted by the member of our cabin crew who will guide [the child] to an assigned seat." Further they "will be seated close to the flight attendants so they can keep [ an eye on [them]" The father,again as per Porter's website was required to remain in the gate area (or airport) until advised the aircraft had departed. Something broke down somewhere.
Is that for all minors or for minors that have the unaccompanied minor fee purchased?
@@msromike123 Chargin for Unaccompanied Minor Insurance is ludicrous; they arent checked bags o,O
Education system trains kids to not ask questions, not stand up.
@@OutWestRedDirt - Indoctrination system.
@@SylviaRustyFae It's mostly a fee to go towards the added work that's involved between flights. There shouldn't be any actual fee for what goes on on the flight itself as there shouldn't be any real increase in work for the flight crew.
I remember once, my then 6yo and I took a commuter flight up the coast from LAX and when my daughter took the seat behind the pilot and I took the one behind her, the pilot said the the next guy, “sir, please sit here because we need to balance the plane.” It was a 14 passenger plane.
I took a small plane with my class in school, and somebody asked to change seats. The pilot pulled out his slide rule and made a quick calculation before okaying the change.