Super video, good job! You all get better with each and every one! Thank you again for the straightforward presentation of instrumented testing results. For your viewers, we'll repeat what we always say, which is everyone's eyes and brains are calibrated differently, therefore at the end of the day (or night), always get the NOD/Tube combination that works best for you, no matter who makes the various components, and at the price point that meets your budget. We're biased; however, we'll just say that we firmly believe that Photonis Tubes, NODS and optics offer the best all-around performance for every possible scenario. And if you get to the point where you need supplemental lighting, as your video illustrates, then turn on a light that other non-Photonis equipped NODS can't see. Finally, does the generation label make a difference? All we can say is the recent draft for the 2025 US Army NEXT proposal for NODS doesn't use the word "Generation" when it comes to night vision image intensifier tubes.
I definitely notice temporary burn in with my Elbit XLSH tube. As stated, it does go away fairly quickly when used in darker environments. Those Photonis high gain tubes do seem to perform very well!
I am very happy that i managed to get my hands on immaculate L3 filmless WP. I have had the joy of comparing it with several different units of different manufacturers and specs. Wholy guacamole it isn't even heckin close in low light. Then again my SNR and EBI are both very good so i haven't had a chance to look through another manufacturers tube with similar numbers.
Great video...seems the 4G high gain's are going to do everything the Elbits will do for less $$. The contrast in the urban shots make the Photonis a better option. Take my money.
I agree, it had better visible gain as far as i can see, and was less washed out at higher illumination (i know thats easy to fix with manual gain, but only if you have it). It was definitely noisier and yeah would definitely be curious to see the equal FOM, as i suspect it would be noticably better than the Gen3 then.
Only the 4G+ HG version has these sort of specs. Eliminates a lot of the noise. However, they are 2-3K CAD more expensive than the standard 4G HG tubes. They are also very hard to get, usually unavailable.
Spec Ops: The Line was one of the best narratives in recent video games. It translated the main plot and ideas from Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now into the medium of video games so well and while it isn't quite underrated, it never did quite get enough sales to warrant any follow up unfortunately. Or maybe like most truly great pieces of entertainment, it's better off being left to stand on its own. Oh wait this is a video about night vision??
Those streaks in the elbit tubes actually go away immediately if you flip an ir illuminator on at your feet or on the ceiling we're you make it autogate.
excellent video. I own an elbit g3 with 69k gain and photonics echo wp with 11k gain. indoor performance is actually similar. where the elbit shines is how it renders my laser aiming and ir illuminator past 200 meters. much crisper image with the elbit. i’d love to get one of the hg photo is in wp someday.
The scintillation seems very apparent in the magnified images in low light. Is it perceivable to yall when looking through the high gains? If it wasn’t for that, it seems like a no brainer.
They are around 10k on average as well. However because of the glass on the hoffman they read a little lower, on average. Usually around 3.5k gain. Echos usually range from 4-5K on average.
A couple of years ago i compared an Echo vs a Gen3 Omni7 tube and the Echo was way worse in low light. Wondering how the Omni7 would stacks up to a Echo+ and a 4G High Gain now a days.
I think manual gain needs to be considered. When using the gen 3 you can lower the gain and reduce the over saturation in high light situations. When you do this you can accomplish a similar image to the 4g high gains.
My only complaint or question rather is regarding the cityscape comparison; does the housing the elbit tube is in have manual gain? You guys use a lot of housings like the tanto without manual gain control which is probably due to ITAR, which I get. But if you’re in America and have access to solid manual gain mono housings , I see no reason to pay elbit prices for these tubes. MX11769 tubes exist, and having manual gain is really helpful in a mono.
I would personally take a 4G+ HG with higher SNR and lower EBI. I think NNVT should release the NVT-8 and perhaps high gain options as well so I'm waiting.
NVT 4-7 are marketing terms not used by NNVT. They don't correspond to a tube designation. That's why many NVT vendors use A-B-C grade instead. So NNVT cannot release NVT8.
@@Tattlebot Huh? This doesn't make much sense. I know they don't call them NVT's though. But each "NVT" tube is different. NVT-7 uses HyMa and has a larger spectrum bandwith while NVT-6 doesn't. A-B-C aren't suppose to be grades if that specific tube? A being the highest FOM option while C the lowest. I looked on Alibaba and other Chinese vendors and what I said is what they use. Regardless, what I mean is a new tube from NNVT. They are probably going to release high gain and hopefully something new and with better specs.
@@DjAlonDevil There are different technology tubes, as can be seen with different PC sensitivity values and better figures. However if you're buying an NVT5 or NVT6 the seller can fulfill it with any tube that meets the offered minimum spec and format. Note that even honest dealers in China can be victim to fraudulent spec sheets.
I was a little bummed when the high gain tubes were announced, I had just got my Echo+ tubes in February but after seeing wooded part of the video I am pretty content especially with FOM for both tubes just barely being under 2500. Haven't seen WP Photonis high gain in America yet, so far just green.
Basically ~half-moon and a clear sky (if no clouds covering the moon) is not a challenging environment. It would be interesting to see how they actually compare should any one or more of those factors become unfavorable.
@@coldharboursupply@coldharboursupply Your indoor test is already very good. I can see it's already borderline useable. I don't imagine most would go somewhere darker than a warehouse with only 2 marker glowsticks, let alone not using any illumination when any light is already a giveaway anyways.
American civs can get the Elbit and L3 tubes also theirs a gen 3 filmless but I have no clue what that means for life span other than the warranty on the filmed is 10 yrs and unfilmed is 5 yrs. Photonis does have manufacturing in the US and Elbit to my understanding is European. L3 is a US company.
Gain can be confusing, as it means a few things for a simple explanation: Gain or Luminance Gain: How much the tube intensifies light, this will be on the spec sheet and done by the tube manufacture System Gain: This should be provided by the builder and will be on the build report, this is a value of the ratio the tube intensifies the Hoffman machine source light as an overal system reading. The other "gain" uses are moreso for how the tube controls brightness. Brightness is a better work in this case than gain but we go with what the industry uses: Autogain (A better term woulf be: Auto-brightness) : The tube adjusting brightness based on ambient light conditions, all modern tubes will have a level of autogain to preserve the image and protect the tube Manual gain (A better term would be Manual Brightness Control): 3 pin and Pigtail tubes will have manual gain on TOP of auto-gain. This means that if the tube is installed into a housing with a manual gain knob or buttons you can control the brightness of the tube when the ambient conditions are dark enough to do so.
@@coldharboursupply I meant "autogated". I do appreciate the explanation on gain very informative. So the 4g would be able to have manual control in a housing like the new MH-1?
I'm confused. Would you take the Elbit or 4G in extreme low light? At one point in the video, you said you would let the images speak for themselves, which seemed to imply you would choose the 4G? But then, near the end of the video, you said the gen 3 might take the lead.
We leave the choice up to the individual to look at. From our read theres a few things to consider: 1. It's hard to get L3 and Elbit tubes from retailers outside the US if you are not in MIL/LE (we're in Canada) 2. 4GHGs have great overall performance in all lighting conditions, whereas many gen 3 tubes suffer performance wise more in mixed lighting 3. Gen 3 tubes perform well in extreme low light, but the 4G HGS perform very similar in our tests which were done in controlled environments, in reality most users will be hard pressed to tell the difference other than the slightly increased noise of the image from our examples. Being a dude in Canada, I would pick the 4G HG simply for warranty reasons, more mixed lighting performance, and comparable low light performance. In the US, where there are more options, you may need to weigh things out differently.
@coldharboursupply Yeah, I'm in the US, and not I'm sure if I want to wait for the release of WP photonis high gain tubes to save money, or just get WP L3.
@@musicman1eanda I just spoke to a contact I have within Photonis defense and you can purchase WP high gains from them but only in their systems, so you would have to buy a vyper or PD PRO from Photonis direct to get the highgain WP, he said it may be 2-3 years before they put out the tubes by themselves
Great video. Love my Echo but it seems these fall right in line with L3's price wise so it would be tough not to go L3 if you can. I'd like to see these in the price bracket where Elbit's are and it would make the decision easier. The cleanliness of the tube/image and the autogating are nice features.
As I’ve been told, the darker it gets the more likely you’ll need some illumination, so unless you goonin with full moon, maybe I’m naive, but you probably could get away with gen 2 tubes for larping
Don't take this the wrong way and I'm not an expert or anything. Why didn't you include the halo rating on the tubes? For the urban test the lights the well lit street seemed to be washing out the area like I assume a bad halo spec tube would produce.
Photonis actually does not usually put the Halo spec on their sheets because their halos are very small. We would not want to misrepresent them with made up numbers. Halo does not change the washout effect of the tubes, that's more of an outcome of glass, ebi, output brightness and gain. Because some tubes have higher output brightness with the same camera settings you can have slightly washed out images.
@@coldharboursupply Thanks for the reply and I see what you're saying. That's really interesting that they don't come with halo specs. I have some more learning to do I guess. 😂
Super video, good job! You all get better with each and every one! Thank you again for the straightforward presentation of instrumented testing results. For your viewers, we'll repeat what we always say, which is everyone's eyes and brains are calibrated differently, therefore at the end of the day (or night), always get the NOD/Tube combination that works best for you, no matter who makes the various components, and at the price point that meets your budget. We're biased; however, we'll just say that we firmly believe that Photonis Tubes, NODS and optics offer the best all-around performance for every possible scenario. And if you get to the point where you need supplemental lighting, as your video illustrates, then turn on a light that other non-Photonis equipped NODS can't see. Finally, does the generation label make a difference? All we can say is the recent draft for the 2025 US Army NEXT proposal for NODS doesn't use the word "Generation" when it comes to night vision image intensifier tubes.
Thanks for the insightful comments as always. Love to see what you guys are cooking as you guys bring some true innovation to the IIT world.
You changed my mind about what a gen 2 tube can do!
Great video as always. Production quality getting better and better.
Much appreciated!
Over 9000!?
there is no way that could be right!
7:42 time stamp.
I definitely notice temporary burn in with my Elbit XLSH tube. As stated, it does go away fairly quickly when used in darker environments. Those Photonis high gain tubes do seem to perform very well!
I am very happy that i managed to get my hands on immaculate L3 filmless WP. I have had the joy of comparing it with several different units of different manufacturers and specs. Wholy guacamole it isn't even heckin close in low light. Then again my SNR and EBI are both very good so i haven't had a chance to look through another manufacturers tube with similar numbers.
I'm definitely glad I grabbed a set of GP high gains, they are sick.
Love mine, price/value can't be beat
@matthew5289 Where did you get your GP high gains ? Can't seem to find these in EU.
@@mikemajoris8644how much are they again?
Super hyped about my first binos. Can’t wait to see how they compare to the old pvs14 I had.
This is awesome! There's never enough NV content!
1:48 so uh... We're just not gonna mention the catass?
Gonna be getting 4G high gain for airsoft and hiking can’t wait please make more videos on them
Great video...seems the 4G high gain's are going to do everything the Elbits will do for less $$. The contrast in the urban shots make the Photonis a better option. Take my money.
I noticed they had very bright center, would you mind moving them around against the calibration picture to compare?
It would be great to see a 4G with a similar SNR and EBI rating (if it can) to the Elbit. Then it would likely take over.
I agree, it had better visible gain as far as i can see, and was less washed out at higher illumination (i know thats easy to fix with manual gain, but only if you have it). It was definitely noisier and yeah would definitely be curious to see the equal FOM, as i suspect it would be noticably better than the Gen3 then.
Only the 4G+ HG version has these sort of specs. Eliminates a lot of the noise. However, they are 2-3K CAD more expensive than the standard 4G HG tubes. They are also very hard to get, usually unavailable.
Spec Ops: The Line was one of the best narratives in recent video games. It translated the main plot and ideas from Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now into the medium of video games so well and while it isn't quite underrated, it never did quite get enough sales to warrant any follow up unfortunately. Or maybe like most truly great pieces of entertainment, it's better off being left to stand on its own.
Oh wait this is a video about night vision??
My man gets it.
@@coldharboursupply I dont even know what he's talking about, But when Connor says something you gotta agree!
Fantastic video! Keep up the excellent work-you're doing a great job educating and entertaining!
Those streaks in the elbit tubes actually go away immediately if you flip an ir illuminator on at your feet or on the ceiling we're you make it autogate.
14:10 whats with the strobing going on here?
I normally only see this with electronic light sources
Super vidéo ❤
excellent video. I own an elbit g3 with 69k gain and photonics echo wp with 11k gain. indoor performance is actually similar. where the elbit shines is how it renders my laser aiming and ir illuminator past 200 meters. much crisper image with the elbit. i’d love to get one of the hg photo is in wp someday.
The scintillation seems very apparent in the magnified images in low light. Is it perceivable to yall when looking through the high gains? If it wasn’t for that, it seems like a no brainer.
You are just so good man.
Out of curiosity, what are the Jerry-31s gain value? Whats the cd/m^2/lx?
Is it similar compared to the Echo around 4000 on the Hoffman machine?
They are around 10k on average as well. However because of the glass on the hoffman they read a little lower, on average. Usually around 3.5k gain. Echos usually range from 4-5K on average.
@@coldharboursupply Thank you! Great videos per usual 💪🏼
A couple of years ago i compared an Echo vs a Gen3 Omni7 tube and the Echo was way worse in low light. Wondering how the Omni7 would stacks up to a Echo+ and a 4G High Gain now a days.
Thanks for another very informative well illustrated video
I think manual gain needs to be considered. When using the gen 3 you can lower the gain and reduce the over saturation in high light situations. When you do this you can accomplish a similar image to the 4g high gains.
My only complaint or question rather is regarding the cityscape comparison; does the housing the elbit tube is in have manual gain?
You guys use a lot of housings like the tanto without manual gain control which is probably due to ITAR, which I get. But if you’re in America and have access to solid manual gain mono housings , I see no reason to pay elbit prices for these tubes. MX11769 tubes exist, and having manual gain is really helpful in a mono.
Good video!
I would personally take a 4G+ HG with higher SNR and lower EBI. I think NNVT should release the NVT-8 and perhaps high gain options as well so I'm waiting.
NVT 4-7 are marketing terms not used by NNVT. They don't correspond to a tube designation. That's why many NVT vendors use A-B-C grade instead. So NNVT cannot release NVT8.
@@Tattlebot Huh? This doesn't make much sense. I know they don't call them NVT's though. But each "NVT" tube is different. NVT-7 uses HyMa and has a larger spectrum bandwith while NVT-6 doesn't. A-B-C aren't suppose to be grades if that specific tube? A being the highest FOM option while C the lowest. I looked on Alibaba and other Chinese vendors and what I said is what they use. Regardless, what I mean is a new tube from NNVT. They are probably going to release high gain and hopefully something new and with better specs.
@@DjAlonDevil There are different technology tubes, as can be seen with different PC sensitivity values and better figures. However if you're buying an NVT5 or NVT6 the seller can fulfill it with any tube that meets the offered minimum spec and format. Note that even honest dealers in China can be victim to fraudulent spec sheets.
What are the highest SNR high gains available? The only ones I have seen are low 30s
I was a little bummed when the high gain tubes were announced, I had just got my Echo+ tubes in February but after seeing wooded part of the video I am pretty content especially with FOM for both tubes just barely being under 2500. Haven't seen WP Photonis high gain in America yet, so far just green.
Basically ~half-moon and a clear sky (if no clouds covering the moon) is not a challenging environment. It would be interesting to see how they actually compare should any one or more of those factors become unfavorable.
@@JohnZ556 The hoffman shows the more extreme low light perfomance in a much more objective way, as well as the indoor test.
@@coldharboursupply@coldharboursupply Your indoor test is already very good. I can see it's already borderline useable.
I don't imagine most would go somewhere darker than a warehouse with only 2 marker glowsticks, let alone not using any illumination when any light is already a giveaway anyways.
Fantastic video. Is it true NNVT tubes are similar to Photonis as far as burn-in resilience?
So the difference between photonis high gain vs elbit gen 3 is less than half the difference between elbit and photonis 4g.
American civs can get the Elbit and L3 tubes also theirs a gen 3 filmless but I have no clue what that means for life span other than the warranty on the filmed is 10 yrs and unfilmed is 5 yrs. Photonis does have manufacturing in the US and Elbit to my understanding is European. L3 is a US company.
Photonis is in France, Elbit is Israeli company 🤮
Tubes are made in US i think.
What about using this tube in something like the MH-1 where it is manual gain? Are they auto gain only?
Gain can be confusing, as it means a few things for a simple explanation:
Gain or Luminance Gain: How much the tube intensifies light, this will be on the spec sheet and done by the tube manufacture
System Gain: This should be provided by the builder and will be on the build report, this is a value of the ratio the tube intensifies the Hoffman machine source light as an overal system reading.
The other "gain" uses are moreso for how the tube controls brightness. Brightness is a better work in this case than gain but we go with what the industry uses:
Autogain (A better term woulf be: Auto-brightness) : The tube adjusting brightness based on ambient light conditions, all modern tubes will have a level of autogain to preserve the image and protect the tube
Manual gain (A better term would be Manual Brightness Control): 3 pin and Pigtail tubes will have manual gain on TOP of auto-gain. This means that if the tube is installed into a housing with a manual gain knob or buttons you can control the brightness of the tube when the ambient conditions are dark enough to do so.
@@coldharboursupply I meant "autogated". I do appreciate the explanation on gain very informative. So the 4g would be able to have manual control in a housing like the new MH-1?
Yeah I'm thinking this one is COOKED at 1500 degrees Fahrenheit!
I'd love a bino with 4G HG. I'd rather have the 4Gs over gen 3.
I'm confused. Would you take the Elbit or 4G in extreme low light? At one point in the video, you said you would let the images speak for themselves, which seemed to imply you would choose the 4G? But then, near the end of the video, you said the gen 3 might take the lead.
We leave the choice up to the individual to look at. From our read theres a few things to consider:
1. It's hard to get L3 and Elbit tubes from retailers outside the US if you are not in MIL/LE (we're in Canada)
2. 4GHGs have great overall performance in all lighting conditions, whereas many gen 3 tubes suffer performance wise more in mixed lighting
3. Gen 3 tubes perform well in extreme low light, but the 4G HGS perform very similar in our tests which were done in controlled environments, in reality most users will be hard pressed to tell the difference other than the slightly increased noise of the image from our examples.
Being a dude in Canada, I would pick the 4G HG simply for warranty reasons, more mixed lighting performance, and comparable low light performance. In the US, where there are more options, you may need to weigh things out differently.
@coldharboursupply Yeah, I'm in the US, and not I'm sure if I want to wait for the release of WP photonis high gain tubes to save money, or just get WP L3.
@@musicman1eanda I just spoke to a contact I have within Photonis defense and you can purchase WP high gains from them but only in their systems, so you would have to buy a vyper or PD PRO from Photonis direct to get the highgain WP, he said it may be 2-3 years before they put out the tubes by themselves
Great video. Love my Echo but it seems these fall right in line with L3's price wise so it would be tough not to go L3 if you can. I'd like to see these in the price bracket where Elbit's are and it would make the decision easier. The cleanliness of the tube/image and the autogating are nice features.
We are located in Canada so thats a big caveat as to why these are competitive.
@@JJ_MTB_15 All of the L3 and Elbit tubes you can purchase on the civilian market are fallouts. Remember that.
QUESTION....Is it true that gen 2 has half of the tube life of gen 3??
As far as I know this was the case but shouldn't be the case anymore with Photonis tubes.
Thank you
As I’ve been told, the darker it gets the more likely you’ll need some illumination, so unless you goonin with full moon, maybe I’m naive, but you probably could get away with gen 2 tubes for larping
Don't take this the wrong way and I'm not an expert or anything. Why didn't you include the halo rating on the tubes? For the urban test the lights the well lit street seemed to be washing out the area like I assume a bad halo spec tube would produce.
Photonis actually does not usually put the Halo spec on their sheets because their halos are very small. We would not want to misrepresent them with made up numbers.
Halo does not change the washout effect of the tubes, that's more of an outcome of glass, ebi, output brightness and gain. Because some tubes have higher output brightness with the same camera settings you can have slightly washed out images.
@@coldharboursupply Thanks for the reply and I see what you're saying. That's really interesting that they don't come with halo specs.
I have some more learning to do I guess. 😂
4G high gain is GOD!! This tube almost makes my nnvt tube trash...
GaAs photocathod produces more gaussian-like noise which is better tolerated by human eye.