I no longer listen to a piece of music without hearing you guide me with your talks. I'm addicted to your videos and ClassicsToday. And happy to be so. Thank you.
Dave mentions in passing that this Karajan set didn’t include Schoenberg’s Five Orchestral Pieces (maybe Karajan did record it, maybe he didn’t, I don’t know), but Inhad the chance to see Karajan conduct the work back in 1979. In those days the Berlin Philharmonie used to offer a “Musik des Zwangzigsten Jahrhunderts” (Music of the Twentieth Century) series that featured different conductors and soloists performing modern works. It allowed me to see, for example, a young Leif Segerstam conduct a performance of Cristobal Halffter’s Cello Concerto with Siegfried Palm as soloist. But Karajan took his turn with the Berlin Philharmonic, and he offered a program with Webern’s Six Pieces for Orchestra, Berg’s Three Pieces for Orchestra, AND Schoenberg’s Six Orchestral Pieces. The first half was the Schoenberg and Webern, and he naturally kept the Berg for the second half. The concert was unforgettable, and NO ONE delivered the Berg like Karajan did. It was shattering!
I own a simikar set to this one devoted to the string quartets of these three composers by the Lasalle Quartet. I got it back in 1991 and have been enjoying it ever since. I guess this is an acquired taste. Back in the mid 80s, when I started going to concerts, I would go to virtually everything I could. I was always receptive to the likes of Berg and Shostakovich, but struggled with other composers such as Bartok, who I love nowadays. I've seen many great conductors in concert, but never got to see Karajan.
If you want to supplement this with another great Second Viennese collection, find the Antal Dorati recording on Mercury Living Presence. It has a first-class rendition of Schoenberg's 5 pieces that Dave mentions are missing from the Karajan set, a wonderful performance of Berg's Lulu Suite, and Webern's Five Pieces for orchestra, Op. 10. Unfortunately, you duplicate the Berg 3 Pieces, but it's still worth getting this CD to supplement the Karajan set.
I love that Dorati disc. I used to think Dorati is 'just that boring guy who made that boring 1812 recording', until I heard his Second Viennese recording with LSO.
Wonderful video, Dave, thank you! I've only recently found your channel, so I'm late getting around to watching. My Music History teacher in high school long ago played different things for us from the Second Viennese composers which really affected me deeply. So much so that I wanted to go right out and find some recordings for my collection, immediately. I hit the jackpot when I found these Karajan recordings in the 4 LP DG boxed set with that pea green cover. Decades later, this set continues to be among my favorite recordings.
Dave, while you always convey your passion for the subject of any given video clip, I feel you outdid yourself with No 152! The passion is palpable! Well done!
I bought this in a hurry, despite already having the exact same performances in a mid-priced DG box-set. Reason: I'm a sucker for original jackets, and Karajan's BPO Verklaerte Nacht sounded as if it were arranged by Mantovani!
Oh yes and those cover images were great examples of the peak of DG efforts on cover images, just marvellous. I suppose it emphasises Daves point that here the music was more important than the Karajan image
Very late in life, HvK finally got around to conducting the Berg Violin Concerto . It was with Pierre Amoyal and there are some pirate recordings around. It was first class and would be great if there were an official release.
The Rosbaud commercial recording of the Schoenberg Op. 31 Variations makes the contours of the variations much more discernible than Karajan. What I love from those recordings is the Webern Passacaglia! So decadent!
I own the Musical Heritage Society incarnation of these three fabulous discs. Dave's recommendation is a 'no-brainer' because the performances are classics. I will have to research these discs to see if they have been cleaned up with the latest audio technology. Edit: From a Discog post for this set, "Box Set, Compilation, Limited Edition, Card sleeve 3 x CD, Album, Reissue, Remastered, Double Gatefold Card Wallet." Yes, this set has been remastered!!
I have always thought that this "non-20th-century-specialist" approach is really ideal for the 2nd Vienna School. Karajan is, for me, much interesting (even I would say "better") in these works than Boulez or Gielen. In fact, another recordings I love are Abbado's Berg and Webern with the Wiener Philharmoniker, with a similar view of the scores. Or the decadent Sinopoli in Desde.
I remember this set when it came out, a real earopener along with DG's LaSalle Quartet box of Schoenberg, Berg, Webern. I wonder if the LaSalle had to finance that one too
I studied with those guys - they had a very loyal producer at DG, and after all, paying four guys is a lot cheaper than paying a hundred. So no, they did not pay for it out of pocket.
@@marknewkirk4322 The original LP box set of the LaSalle's set also had a lavish *actual* book inside its package, not just a booklet. It's a wonderful set.
@@vinylarchaeologist Walter Levin taught a seminar about the 2nd Viennese School quartets in Cincinnati decades ago, and he brought a satchel full of those books and gave them out to the students in the class - I took one in German so he had more in English for the other students. It is still sitting on my bookshelf. The edition of the books that went with the LPs was out of print by then. The publisher must have had some copies lying around...
Fabulous set - I think my favourite version of Webern's Passacaglia. Not state-of-the-art in recording quality terms (typical DG multi-miked production of the time) but more than good enough! It's true when Karajan believed in something he turned in some extraordinary performances of non- standard (for him) repertoire - Honnegger 2 & 3 Symphonies, Prokofiev 5th Symphony (what an impactful Scherzo and wonderfully trenchant slow movement) and Mahler's 5th to mention just three.
@@murraylow4523 Yeah whilst I agree it's not quite what you'd associate with Webern's later, spare serial style (it is op.1 after all) actually I think there are still stylistic elements which point to the direction he was going (there is still a sense of spareness and detachment in some parts).
Verklarte Nacht - some of the most glorious "chromatic sludge" ever written! I like P&M too, but to my ears it's even sludgier! These recordings 1-2 years before I entered Uni to study music. Even though the music faculty's library had these Karajan/Berlin recordings, for some reason the theory and history professors always chose to play Robert Kraft leading pick-up ensembles. They sounded distinctly "under-rehearsed". I finally asked one of the professors why he chose Kraft's Webern symphony when the Karajan was available. (Karajan's version was so good he actually made me like it!) He didn't know about it and tried it. Thereafter, I don't think we heard much more Kraft when studying the 2nd Wiener-Schule. (And no disrespect to Kraft who later re-recorded much of this stuff with much better results.)
These are absolutely classic recordings. They were reference recordings for a long time. Without taking anything away from them, I think they've been somewhat surpassed by Boulez and certainly Gielen.
I managed to find to a copy of this last week & it’s the only thing I’ve listened too the last week. Excellent box & I like Webern best on it.
I no longer listen to a piece of music without hearing you guide me with your talks. I'm addicted to your videos and ClassicsToday. And happy to be so. Thank you.
Dave mentions in passing that this Karajan set didn’t include Schoenberg’s Five Orchestral Pieces (maybe Karajan did record it, maybe he didn’t, I don’t know), but Inhad the chance to see Karajan conduct the work back in 1979.
In those days the Berlin Philharmonie used to offer a “Musik des Zwangzigsten Jahrhunderts” (Music of the Twentieth Century) series that featured different conductors and soloists performing modern works.
It allowed me to see, for example, a young Leif Segerstam conduct a performance of Cristobal Halffter’s Cello Concerto with Siegfried Palm as soloist.
But Karajan took his turn with the Berlin Philharmonic, and he offered a program with Webern’s Six Pieces for Orchestra, Berg’s Three Pieces for Orchestra, AND Schoenberg’s Six Orchestral Pieces.
The first half was the Schoenberg and Webern, and he naturally kept the Berg for the second half.
The concert was unforgettable, and NO ONE delivered the Berg like Karajan did.
It was shattering!
I own a simikar set to this one devoted to the string quartets of these three composers by the Lasalle Quartet. I got it back in 1991 and have been enjoying it ever since. I guess this is an acquired taste. Back in the mid 80s, when I started going to concerts, I would go to virtually everything I could. I was always receptive to the likes of Berg and Shostakovich, but struggled with other composers such as Bartok, who I love nowadays. I've seen many great conductors in concert, but never got to see Karajan.
If you want to supplement this with another great Second Viennese collection, find the Antal Dorati recording on Mercury Living Presence. It has a first-class rendition of Schoenberg's 5 pieces that Dave mentions are missing from the Karajan set, a wonderful performance of Berg's Lulu Suite, and Webern's Five Pieces for orchestra, Op. 10. Unfortunately, you duplicate the Berg 3 Pieces, but it's still worth getting this CD to supplement the Karajan set.
I love that Dorati disc. I used to think Dorati is 'just that boring guy who made that boring 1812 recording', until I heard his Second Viennese recording with LSO.
I'm catching up on this music now. Finally! The Berlin Orchestra is truly amazing! Thanx for the push! I'm expanding!
Wonderful video, Dave, thank you! I've only recently found your channel, so I'm late getting around to watching. My Music History teacher in high school long ago played different things for us from the Second Viennese composers which really affected me deeply. So much so that I wanted to go right out and find some recordings for my collection, immediately. I hit the jackpot when I found these Karajan recordings in the 4 LP DG boxed set with that pea green cover. Decades later, this set continues to be among my favorite recordings.
That's great! Thanks for your comments, and welcome to the picnic!
Dave, while you always convey your passion for the subject of any given video clip, I feel you outdid yourself with No 152! The passion is palpable! Well done!
Great Disc Dave. It is hitting the target!
I bought this in a hurry, despite already having the exact same performances in a mid-priced DG box-set. Reason: I'm a sucker for original jackets, and Karajan's BPO Verklaerte Nacht sounded as if it were arranged by Mantovani!
Oh yes and those cover images were great examples of the peak of DG efforts on cover images, just marvellous. I suppose it emphasises Daves point that here the music was more important than the Karajan image
Never would I have thought of Von Karajan in connection with Schoenberg, Berg and Webern. Thanks, Dave.
Very late in life, HvK finally got around to conducting the Berg Violin Concerto . It was with Pierre Amoyal and there are some pirate recordings around. It was first class and would be great if there were an official release.
Karajan also did the Berg violin concerto with Szeryng in Berlin.
The Rosbaud commercial recording of the Schoenberg Op. 31 Variations makes the contours of the variations much more discernible than Karajan. What I love from those recordings is the Webern Passacaglia! So decadent!
Mehta and the LA Phil also make a strong case for the piece but I may be biased as that’s the recording I first got to know it via
I own the Musical Heritage Society incarnation of these three fabulous discs. Dave's recommendation is a 'no-brainer' because the performances are classics. I will have to research these discs to see if they have been cleaned up with the latest audio technology. Edit: From a Discog post for this set, "Box Set, Compilation, Limited Edition, Card sleeve 3 x CD, Album, Reissue, Remastered, Double Gatefold Card Wallet." Yes, this set has been remastered!!
Yep. I wrote that entry and checked all the boxes.
I have always thought that this "non-20th-century-specialist" approach is really ideal for the 2nd Vienna School. Karajan is, for me, much interesting (even I would say "better") in these works than Boulez or Gielen. In fact, another recordings I love are Abbado's Berg and Webern with the Wiener Philharmoniker, with a similar view of the scores. Or the decadent Sinopoli in Desde.
I remember this set when it came out, a real earopener along with DG's LaSalle Quartet box of Schoenberg, Berg, Webern. I wonder if the LaSalle had to finance that one too
I studied with those guys - they had a very loyal producer at DG, and after all, paying four guys is a lot cheaper than paying a hundred. So no, they did not pay for it out of pocket.
@@marknewkirk4322 The original LP box set of the LaSalle's set also had a lavish *actual* book inside its package, not just a booklet. It's a wonderful set.
@@vinylarchaeologist Walter Levin taught a seminar about the 2nd Viennese School quartets in Cincinnati decades ago, and he brought a satchel full of those books and gave them out to the students in the class - I took one in German so he had more in English for the other students. It is still sitting on my bookshelf. The edition of the books that went with the LPs was out of print by then. The publisher must have had some copies lying around...
Fabulous set - I think my favourite version of Webern's Passacaglia. Not state-of-the-art in recording quality terms (typical DG multi-miked production of the time) but more than good enough! It's true when Karajan believed in something he turned in some extraordinary performances of non- standard (for him) repertoire - Honnegger 2 & 3 Symphonies, Prokofiev 5th Symphony (what an impactful Scherzo and wonderfully trenchant slow movement) and Mahler's 5th to mention just three.
It is a thrilling Passacaglia, which is a thrilling piece even if it’s not quite what you expect from Webern:-)
@@murraylow4523 Yeah whilst I agree it's not quite what you'd associate with Webern's later, spare serial style (it is op.1 after all) actually I think there are still stylistic elements which point to the direction he was going (there is still a sense of spareness and detachment in some parts).
Oh yes - we’re clearly not in Brahmsland anymore….
Couldn't find this one on spotify.
Plus postcards!
Verklarte Nacht - some of the most glorious "chromatic sludge" ever written! I like P&M too, but to my ears it's even sludgier!
These recordings 1-2 years before I entered Uni to study music. Even though the music faculty's library had these Karajan/Berlin recordings, for some reason the theory and history professors always chose to play Robert Kraft leading pick-up ensembles. They sounded distinctly "under-rehearsed". I finally asked one of the professors why he chose Kraft's Webern symphony when the Karajan was available. (Karajan's version was so good he actually made me like it!) He didn't know about it and tried it. Thereafter, I don't think we heard much more Kraft when studying the 2nd Wiener-Schule. (And no disrespect to Kraft who later re-recorded much of this stuff with much better results.)
It's Craft. Kraft makes macaroni and cheese in a box.
@@DavesClassicalGuide 🤣You mean to tell me that Kraft (tm) never played corporate percussion?
These are absolutely classic recordings. They were reference recordings for a long time. Without taking anything away from them, I think they've been somewhat surpassed by Boulez and certainly Gielen.
No, they haven't. They are still as good as anything out there.