Matt, you left something out. I am a retired firefighter. It has been my experience that OSB is far inferior to structural integraty during fire conditions. OSB reaches it's ignition temperature far sooner than plywood because of their physical structures. Plywood being more solid. 10 - 15 years ago people had aprox. 10 minutes to escape a house fire once alerted by a smoke detector. Today, that time has decreased to 4 -6 minutes. Because of modern building products, modern synthetics used in decor increase the toxic fumes in smoke. Also, because of the glues used in OSB manufacture it burns hotter and faster than plywood. This is a danger to firefighters because it means sooner structural failure. A hotter fire also means more damage or complete loss. Too many loses in a community may change that communities ISO insurance rating and property insurance rates rise and property values decrease. So, in the long run, is OSB really cheaper?
The trend around here is to use OSB (I have a few other names for it, none of them good) for roof sheathing, with clay shingles on top. OSB is not strong enough to support clay shingles. Several years ago, a firefighter was killed while on the roof of a burning house with that type of construction. The OSB gave way, and he fell through. The Phoenix, AZ Fire Chief immediately decided that no more firefighters were going to go on the roof of housing with that type of construction. Several other local Fire Chiefs quickly followed suit. But they are still building them that way.
Mike, great point. I am sure that OSB being made of chips, and glue has something to do with it. I have to agree with you. Putting OSB on the outside of a home is just stupid. It will not stand up to the sun and rain like plywood, despite if it is primed and painted. I really think this guy is pushing a product. He is either getting a push from his sponsor or he is justifying how he builds a home. As for me, I would never put OSB on the outside of my home, regardless if it is treated. For $2 a sheet more, I would definitely go for plywood. Yes, it will cost more but what is the cost when OSB rots through and has to be replaced before plywood? As well, this never talked about the strength of the sheets: plywood is by far stronger.
Both OSB and plywood are sheathing products which do not form weather barriers, they are for structural integrity to prevent racking or deflection of other structural members, and provides fastening surfaces for insulation, vapor barriers and siding, etc. It should have a covering over it to prevent UV damage and water infiltration. This could be stucco, vinyl plank, wood shakes, cement board, etc, but it is not an exposed surface in permitted construction. The videographer mentioned the fastening of siding and insulation, right? The cardboard stuff sucks 'cause it won't hold a nail? Obviously corrupted, or the negative comment has no basis in reality? Remember when he mentioned nailing to the OSB or plywood? SMH Both are formed from wood fibres and glue, though the glue may be different, or the same depending on manufacture process, the short fibres of the OSB means that if the glue is defective at all it loses all structural integrity and quickly delaminated, exposing fibres underneath to failure rapidly. Plywood still has continuous strands of fibre across gaps, although delaminated, and will retain some structural integrity and covering over interior strands , though not much and not as robust as solid wood, Plywood does have better resistance to racking than solid wood when the sheathing is in good condition due to fibres oriented on two axes also. I think it is not so much the glue, but the short fibres exposed to weathering, to allow water infiltration or heat, sort of like kindling. Try burning/soaking slivers of wood compared to a wide board, it is vastly different. OK, here's a better comparison, hold a lighter (or water) to a bundle of shredded paper, a stack of paper or a pressed log of solid fibre, one will soak or burn in seconds, another in minutes, the third may be hours. Sprinkle some glue on them all, and you will get the same results.
great video. as a roofer that sheathed MANY roofs i resisted the OSB for a long time but have concluded that it works very well and as intended. it has the benefit of being cheaper and more price stable. it is also made from trees that grow rapidly on farms meaning it is as "sustainable" as all hell. all wood products fail when wetted for extended time periods...
Lol yeah take advice from people in comments, not from someone who has worked in the business for years, owns his own company and builds top-tier houses. Makes sense.
You mean take advice from those that are making a profit from a product rather than those that experience the consequences of the products being pushed?
@@davidgustafson3651 he used Osb zip sheets on his own house. People walk onto job sites thinking they’re experts, this man went to school and teaches this stuff.
I had to get windows covered for a hurricane. Bought the last of the plywood, then had to buy one sheet of OSB. This was in 2004. Got through the storms, put all the wood in the shed. Couple of years passed and I decided to use that wood for a chicken coop. The OSB was severely warped, the edges were expanding all around. The plywood was in perfect shape. 'Nuff said.
your dog looks very much like my dog who is half Siberian Husky half German Shepherd. at 13 months he weighs 70 lbs. we call him Houdini due to his uncanny ability to escape.
Ronnie in Florida OSB today is much better than 10-15 years ago. Manufacturers discovered pretty quickly that if they can make OSB handle a bit more moisture then builders will use since most house get at least a little bit wet either while lumber is sitting there or during building. However plywood is still superior no doubt, but today you can have it be rained on a good bit and no swelling or warping will occur like it dis just a few years ago.
@@Mark_Cook Must be a *very* recent improvement for OSB as a whole, because I've got stuff from 5 years ago that's pretty much disintegrated and older plywood that isn't.
Nice review. In Norway we use neither. Only use (GU-gips) drywalls for outside use. The plaster boards are water repellent. It stiffens the walls in the house, and are wind protective. You have to use special tape in the joints. To make air between the boards and the wood panels (normally vertical or horizontal), you nail on 48mm batten/boards first, before nailing the wood finishing cover panels. It cost around $23 pr. sheet (normal size 1200x2700mm). On roof we use canvas/cover first, then OSB, then another canvas, then 23mm batten/boards on the studding, then 48mm boards cross nailed, then concrete roofing tiles.
@Matt: When I bought my house 30 yrs ago, my builder had ply sheeted the model home. I asked if he was doing that for our house. He said, no we use OSB it's the same and costs less. One day when I drove by "HIS" house being built, lo-and-behold, son of a bi*ch has only ply on the build. My house had not started building yet......needless to say my house is ply. "Do as they do, not as they say!" Cheers
@@sirmixalot3332 As one in the construction world, self employed, I agree. My view is to do the best you can and not charge an arm or leg for it. Funny how it works out that I haven't had to look for work for over a year now. Past customers keep calling me to return for more.
Why can’t builders provide a quote with different materials or at least a base cost using OSB and cost breakdowns for upgrades? If they quote you and say they are building OSB nothing wrong with that. But if they say they will use ply and build OSB that’s another thing.
Well, I mean, the customer selected it, right? (I would assume.) As far as aesthetics, you'll never see any of that. On the interior, it'll be insulated then drywalled over, and on the outside it'll have some kind of Tyvec sheet stapled over it, and then some kind of siding over that. No one will ever see either side of the framing product (except maybe in a garage, perhaps.)
My 120 yr old home has shiplap on the interior and exterior. Shiplap is nice since no need to find a stud for hanging things. I exposed one of the walls. Sanded it down,stained and finished it. Looks amazing
My older brother was a roofer for most of his life and he said old houses that used planking (T&G for upscale and Ledger board for more modest homes) almost never had issues with leaks causing rot because they dried out so well. The 50's housing with plywood sheathing on the roof almost always had rot issues.
In the post war boom of 2week house builds, ventilation was not considered or practiced by very few! Not until a building code standard was established, was this trend and others ( crawl aspace venting ) fazed out ! The beauty of the old uninsulated, drafty , all sawn wood structures , were that the wood got a chance to dry out !! Picture those old attics , so hot in the summer the rafters would crack n pop as they dried to tinder level , and then so cold in winter, again drying out from the hyper dry air outside ! OSB CANT AND WON'T BE ABLE TO REPLICATE THIS ABILITY !!!! CHEERS
Top video on a comparison between those two materials and the grades that can be attained. Seriously this channel is quickly becoming my favoured one for information in the building industry. Watching from the UK. Thumbs up.
The main issue with osb is its weakness to point loads . When I was at jobsites to drill out for plumbing pipes through the floor , floors with osb it was easy to go through them with a large screwdriver. Also , nails can pop through , giving rise to the codes for flooring to change and mandate glue in this part of the country. But I've seen plywood perform vastly better in point load situations. Just something I've seen . Stay safe, and can't wait for your next vid 👍
I've always found that OSB is the second rate choice and I never used it unless specifically requested by a homeowner. Ring nails are the only ones that seem to hold in OSB while any spiral or regular nail will work great in plywood, tongue and groove or shiplap and hold just fine. I'm sure that there are some fine OSB products out there but a good quality plywood wins every time in my opinion.
did a test laid a 4 x 8 1/2" sheet of plywood on the ground with a sheet of 4 x 8 1/2" osb beside it 6 years later the plywood is still there and the osb died a few years ago.
One thing you didn't mention was resistance to wind blown debris from a tornado. There have been tests done where a 2x4 was shot at a wall sheathed with plywood versus OSB. It went right through the OSB like it wasn't there. Plywood had MUCH more resistance. Also fire resistance can be an issue. OSB and other engineered products like I-joists burn hot and fast, not leaving much time for an occupant to get out or the structure to be saved by the F.D.
I often use old plywood or OSB for target backers on a shooting range and I can tell you point blank (pun intended) that OSB does not hold up as well to bullet strikes. Also, have you noticed that some boats are sheathed with marine grade plywood, but you never hear of marine grade OSB? CONEX container floors are made with plywood, not OSB for the same reason.
@@MeisterSexy11 Based on splitting logs with an axe, I can split a log with the grain much easier than against. However, plywood layers are cross grain or perpendicular thus giving strength from either direction. The most strength would be against the apparent grain with an odd number of layers and equal with an even number of layers.
If you're using 4 ply plywood it doesn't matter which way the grain goes 5/8 or 3/4 with 5 ply I would run with the surface ply perpendicular to framing because 3 of those plys are running the 8 foot length and the other 2 are running the width if that makes sense.
In Scandinavia we only use these for the interior part of the house, mostly for extra support of hanging things on the walls or for sound absorbing, and then we have plasterboard as another layer also. That's why we always go with OSB, since it's not exterior. Normally we use wood panels since, well we have alot of wood.
I also think plywood is a little more forgiving when you cut it with a saw, and doesn't flake like OSB. Also worth mentioning is I've gotten my worst splinters with OSB vs. Plywood LOL.
As a 50 year veteran of the carpentry trade, I'd like to add my two-cents worth. During that time frame, I've torn apart quite a pile of water damaged buildings. By very far, the worse damage all around, was on OSB sheathed buildings. I wouldn't use OSB on a bird house. Horrible nasty stuff, and the brand makes no difference whatsoever, I don't care what any mfg. brags, it's all crap. I could list tons of reasons it's crap, but space is limited. The argument that it costs too much is a bs argument. So maybe it might cost $1,500 over the house. Big deal. Ask yourself how much you're spending on the rest of the house, then compare. The same folks who blubber about the extra cost of plywood, don't even blink at a $2,000+ counter top!
Yep, OSB is garbage. The only place I find it is okay is where stairs, etc come together into a basement - the back end of the stairs. I prefer to have it covered and straight. That way I am not knocking my head into a jagged staircase if and when I have to service the furnace. I can bump it off a sort of inverted ramp. But, to be honest, I use plywood there too.
I agree. I put hardwood down on a house with osb subflooring and it was a dog to work with. Undulations all over the damn place. Had to put in more levelling compound than usual. Hated it.
I own a "Craftsman" type home built in 1950. ( Southern Wisconsin Madison area) Everything is 1 inch tong and grove plank sheeting the sides and even roof decking, The frame is the real 2x4's. Everything is still strait and level tough as heck. I just had a new roof put on and the roofer said he has never seen a tong and grove roof. I know the guy that built the place was quite the carpenter / farmer construction. Whats your take.
This is what I suspected. We don't build like this in Queensland and I just don't understand why they do in America. It just looks like you're adding problems to your build.
*Matt, I want to say thank you for your videos. I'm working my way up to being a sales rep for McCoy's and have learned a lot about what certain materials are used for, and about some lesser known materials, from your channel.* Thank you.
We have some details in the den on the edge of some cabinets of osb built in 1958. It was a brand new hi tech product and the architect wanted to show off this new product in his house. Still looks great! And you’re so right, pay attention to the details and building materials will last a long time. 62 years now and not a speck of rot anywhere.
When I was framing apartments, and the fork lift brought up the new cube of OSB, we would chuck the first 3 sheets or so. It was what we were told to do. It just didn't handle the weather. Never did that with CDX ply, and the OSB was not dimensionally stable. The factory reps were telling us to space it 1/8", but it measured over 96".
There's a difference between both products that doesn't effect house framing. But it will in other projects. When cut into small pieces osb can have very weak areas where the chips arrange themselves in an ineffective pattern. These areas can be a real problem in craft projects.
@a w You are right on. We built our house in 2005 and our builder was from China but we didn't allow him using any materials that came from there. We used things from USA, Italy, and few other countries. During that time we heard stories of peoples having problems with sheet rocks from Cheena....Bottom line is "you get what you pay for" always watch when you hire someone to do the works. It's your hard earned money. Be safe and Happy New Year.
Loving the videos Matt! Any chance a video about the economics of building a home is coming? I’m interested to know the costs vs benefits when buying vs building
Interesting and valuable comparison, thankyou. We, in Australia, tend not to clad the entire house in ply(orOSB) but only brace the corners! But again flashings and attention to detail are the keys.
Today it's a huge difference. OSB bottom tier is $15. 1/2" 3 ply wood is $35. That is forcing us to use OSB. Personally, I used it when it was cheap and plywood was cheap and I hated it. This was almost 20 years ago. They sold it as the new better version but working with it was crappy and it definitely smells weird. I am redoing my cottage that is almost a hundred years old and was converted at some point from carriage to cottage. I plan on siding it so I am just going to do the OSB with WRB and clapboard. I also plan on doing what was suggested in one of his other videos regarding insulating old homes and creating an air flow to dry/prevent mold while insulating as much as possible. These channel has definitely been a huge help.
Just repaired a house from the 80's with some Plywood and some with OSB and Carpentor ants and termites love Osb aka particular board. The love small pieces of wood especially soft woods. After being in the business for 20 years I am not a fan of OSB but do use it only when customers are not willing to spend the extra five dollars a sheet.
lol I'm a remodeler too an lets face it people are cheep we compete against Joe blow with hammer an a truck we got to cut cost to get the job what do you do? an trust me 99 out of 100 people only look at ur price I swear I can here cheep cheep from most people. so don't blame us bout osb or plywood. I just once want to walk into a job an here a home owner go don't worried bout cost lets do this super right. or one who will pay 80 grand for a tree house cus I know for hands down fact I can build way better then that tv show lol
I think the big difference between OSB and plywood would be linear shear strength. Put a piece of OSB across an elevated surface on one end and stomp on it and it will fracture much easier than plywood.
very true, but that's not the kind of forces plywood or osb is expected to withstand. first and foremost, both products are substrates that will be covered with flooring/roofing/siding. and for support, they have joists/rafters/studs behind them. their structural integrity is when they've been properly nailed to the earlier stated support material, and the resistance to "racking" it provides. they both do a fine job keeping straight walls straight and squared buildings square. penetration/fracture isn't really a building concern you'd apply to sub sheeting. there shouldn't be anything striking your home with that kind of force... unless a tree hits your roof, and in that case, no amount of sheeting is gonna save you from damage.
david pape OSB strength is not in its bending properties. OSB strength is in its lateral properties. If you were to elevate a 2 x 12 by 10 ft and stand on it it would hold your weight however a 2 x 12 truss would snap but yet the trust is stronger than the 2 by 12 on vertical loads. OSB is a superior Shear product.
I am currently building a new shop, and using OSB under metal cladding both inside and out. I would have used plywood, but I live in grain farming country in the middle of nowhere. The lumber yards here actually have a really hard time getting quality wood products. The spruce plywood they've been able to source was such poor quality, that they ended up only selling fir plywood. And fir plywood vs OSB is about double the cost, and that does add up. That metal cladding (provided all the flashing is done right) is really a good system, so I'm not overly worried about having used OSB
I don't know when sheathing houses became common but to my knowledge it's quite common to find old houses from the turn of the 20th century and before where clapboards were attached directly to the studs with no sheathing underneath.
That's very common in my area on the east coast of Canada, the clapboard was nailed directly to the studs but they were sheathed inside with 8" 3/4 straightedge board
Doesn't that require diagonal cross-bracing in most places now? I've seen only houses with a diagonal stud embedded in the vertical studwork, but I suppose the modern alternative is to put diagonal steel strapping on one side or the other.
They did that in my 100+ year old house. Rough cut actual 2x4s. Cross blocking more than once in nearly every single joist bay. And a diagonal 1x4 across major walls. With the clapboard nailed on with massive old 20 penny nails. It's an old way to build it but it's standing fine here in a seismic zone with just some minor plaster cracking. No weird expansion or contraction noises either.
DryPly superior for subfloor over advantech. DryPly is great for long frame times in wet weather. You are 1000% correct as far as wall sheathing except for using staples in OSB which is against code in most parts of the country now. The key is proper flashing and sealing your exterior before any siding goes on. Water penetration is a house killer.
Hi Matt! Very informative video. Could you please let me know about the termite resistance for both of these materials? How much of a difference does it make by picking one over the other?
I had a garage built in SouthCarolina and they sheathed it with osb...So the fellas had it all framed an just a bit to have all the sheathing done..It started sprinkling and I asked if they would cover the roof before all the sheathing was soaked.They replied"oh it will be fine"..Well after the rain stopped and the sun came out the next day ,the osb started swelling up...Great stuff..Not! So the attic floor was buckled and it looked like thick hair was standing up..Well it was particles of the osb popping loose ..So I swept it twice with a stiff bristle broom and vacumed it..To this day when u walk on the attic floor the wood particles pop up.To me its just about two steps better than particle board after it gets wet period.So dry in your building and have plastic ready to cover it or have saggy nasty sheathing...
Matt, another downside aspect of OSB is the toxic glue that it's made with. I've been in houses where you can still smell the OSB off gassing years later. I'm chemically sensitive and there is a huge difference between the offgas and toxicity of the two products in my opinion.
@@TaylorHaubrich yeah years later he can smell osb off gassing. Thru the drywall, insulation, thru the paint, and all the plumbing glue and carpet and all the cooking that's been done in the house, not to mention pet odors and laundry smells , fireplaces, etc etc this guy can sniff out glue used in osb, even tho he can't actually even see the osb, he can tell the difference between glue in osb and plywood. Lmao. Have you EVER heard such bs in your life?
OSB is a little cheaper, but they charge you full price for the house -- the difference in cost goes into the builder's pocket. Any cut edge, or drilled or nail hole in OSB is wide open for moisture absorption (any waterproof coating is only on the original surface), which causes it to swell; it takes longer to dry out than plywood, and the swelling never shrinks down. If it's made from aspen or poplar, it has ZERO decay resistance. OTOH, most builders will never live in the houses they build, so what do they care?
Maybe run some activated Fibreglass resin over the lower quarter of the sheathing on both sides with a roller prior install off site allowing same to cure, then bring onto site to use on those bottom sections, there no way same will take in moisture ..bit like a hull of a boat...
(Oriented Strand Board (OSB) - Terms and Definitions, Classification and Specifications) defines following classes: OSB/1 - for general use in dry conditions, especially decorative applications. OSB/2 - for load-bearing structures in dry conditions. OSB/3 - for load-bearing structures in damp conditions. OSB/4 - for heavy load-bearing structures in dry or damp conditions. I always use OSB/3 and have never had a problem with those boards. I don't live in the usa so I don't know if the quality there is the same as here in Belgium, but I suppose it is. you should always check the classification when you buy osb plates
Very typical for older homes to have shiplap/grove 1x6 decking for the roof. See it all the time, though much of its in pretty bad shape now plus many of the knot holes have fallen out.
You could have started with the price comparison and had another 10 minutes to get something else done. My shiplap sided home caught fire and on complete rebuild I used OSB vertically and plywood everywhere else. They were both much cheaper in 1996, I almost fell over when I saw your current prices. I purposely left some OSB around to get wet in the rain and was surprised it did not swell as much as I thought it would over an extended period. But it was drying out after each rain event. The 2nd and 3rd owners of my new house were, are both very happy. I visited a couple months ago. The roof sheathing is flatter than most buliders' floors.Sorry, nobody needs a 7000 square foot home. Braggin' rights and small p#$@!%s.....
Horizontal shiplap boards provide minimal resistance to racking. I recently finished fixing an old barn that had stud walls with shiplap siding which had racked about 10 degrees from plum. The resistance to racking of the walls should be accomplished by using diagonal lumber at the corners.
I used OSB here in Mexico and it is twice the price here- I used it to build a choza. And inside I used joint compound over it and you cannot tell what it is- it doesn’t rain here except once a year.
OSB won't hold a nail. For $1200 dollars saved over the cost of building an entire house it is nothing. True...you put the $1200 in your pocket but your client gets a shit built house. And you know it.
So the 2x2 batten fixed with 3 inch nails to the sheet of OSB I have in the garage shouldn't exist then yeah? I can tell you now it's not coming off any time soon.
blipco5 as long as you properly waterproof your project you should have no trouble. I’ve seen dumb things done by hard working men because they don’t understand principles of waterproofing. These guys caulk between old siding planks and nail vinyl siding down good and tight. They are smart but not professional. A house I just remodeled had problems because the renovator decided to torque the toilets down to the plastic flange with an impact driver. Leaks are caused by men who mean well, but in theory there should be no problem with OSB.
Shit lap is for sheds NOT houses! Get a life, build it from brick, cement block or like they do in Yorkshire ... Stone! We even have brick shithouses! Who the hell wants a crappy wooden fire trap?
Bob Lewis: Most of the stories I've seen about new construction, or even damaged buildings built over the past 40 years involve either those 4" aerated light blocks (with non-structural brick on the outside) or occasionally wood framing and brick veneer, like what we often use in the USA. I'm sure that's strong enough to keep the roof up, but neither seems intended to last the ages.
Same. Ship lap on exterior and interior. When we pulled down the interior ,yes it was a massive job, we found every wall had X bracing. Extremely stiff house. We pulled the SL from the inside walls to run new plumbing and electrical and yes we put it back up
Never seen cardboard. But around here I have seen them only use sheating on the corners and then just house wrap + wire mesh and stucco (no sheathing).
@@Rickmakes I'm in the building supply business. Around Central Indiana almost everyone of the semi custom home builders, Pulte, M/I, Arbor, is using that ramboard to one degree or another. Hell we used to supply to this one home builder(pretty big one too) that used to use OSB 4 ft from each corner and the rest of it was 1/2" blue Dowboard 😂
Mr. Risinger, If You wish to say to your grandkids some day that You built that house, I recommend building it brick house in concrete framing (columns in corners of the wall and beams above brick walls). You know, like in Europe. All the best to you. Great channel.
A little of topic but last time I was in a newly framed house I was surprised to see all the studs were made of short pieces of wood no more than 2 ft glued together. You wouldn't think that is strong but apparently it works.
bottom line is do your homework with your builder... because no matter what you pay for if it's not protected correctly you just wasted your money... even if it passes all the building Inspection and codes doesn't mean it is just right.. you need a builder that takes pride in their work... that even if it's not code required they'll go the extra mile and take the time to do it right....... just my thoughts.....
Is this for the outside surfaces of the house? Here in sweden I have seen weather proof drywall used with styrofoam insulation and plaster on top of it.
Good point! My wife and I have been interviewing several builders. First, homeowners need to educate themselves; it takes several years to understand the fundamentals of building construction technology and methodologies. After being equipped with this knowledge, homeowners should feel comfortable and not intimidated to begin "interviewing" builders and asking hard questions such as: "What do you do with any surplus of materials?" I have found that this question gets under their skin and talks to the heart of integrity. If they become defensive, they disqualified themselves.
I really think the idea you present in this video of using pressure treated plywood in the first 2 feet should be the standard in the wet Texas gulf coast. ruclips.net/video/H4eUGi4uWgM/видео.html
julio Angel I like the way you think, Julio. You make good points and have the right perspective on better builders and their commitment to quality and accountability.
I agree, definitely 2*6 studs on the exterior of the house. And 3/4" plywood for the flooring and if the budget allows 3/4" plywood on the exterior walls covered with Tyveck house wrap.
2x6 studs really only have to do with filling the insulation cavity to code for new building..I’ve worked on 200+ year old homes that are still standing and in great shape with 2x4 studs
Here in the UK our company buys OSB3 (the highest moisture resistance grade) for £14/sheet. That's for 3/4" 4' x 8' sheets, a similar sheathing grade of plywood is around £25 so it's a no brainer here.
You can always spray a good quality sealer for decking on the materials thereby preventing mold mildew and rotting from small leaks. I tried that on a small addition by painting all six sides of the plywood prior to putting it up and on any areas that had to be cut. I have found there was no warping or nails coming loose. ALso did that on the T111 siding with better results.
I'm a young old schooler and Ive seen what they're willing to sell as material, I'm all CDX unless its planned to be cheap in which case I'm not interested. Marine grade in sensitive areas because my customers expect it. If your doing the math on $2 a sheet I dont want to even see what the finish will look like. Like you said, show your grandkids what quality over quantity looks like. I've seen enough mushrooms growing out of 10 year old structures.
Haha! Yeah as soon as he started talking about price difference adding up he disqualified himself as a quality builder. Geez, you saved half a mortgage payment on a 7000 sf house? THAT will make the buyer happy.
After watching two brothers building twin houses side by side. One was typical house with OSB all over, the other house used plywood. With identical windows, doors, insulation the plywood house was definitely a much quieter interior. The OSB house had traditional 2x10 or 12 floor joists. Plywood house got engineered floor trusses. While waiting for some products to come in they decided to get truss maker to measure floor sag under load. And the floor trusses glued and screwed, with adhesive and plywood screwed every 6 in the floor was deflecting thousandths of inches with BACKHOES driving over floor. Other house, had much more deflection and actually the OSB flooring needed some pieces replaced. They had water run off from small pond levy break( it was slated to be drained but hadn't been done yet) OSB house had to have lots of water damaged sheets replaced. Plywood project got away with minimal damage and actually dried out quite well. As many state limited use if OSB makes me happier.
DemolitionRanch / off the ranch brought me here. Buying my first house soon... Looking forward to the renovations. You're like a new age Bob Vila! I'm going to be watching this channel a lot!
Exterior grades of sheathing all use phenol-formaldehyde resin. Interior grades use urea-formaldehyde resin. There are minor variations. All release formaldehyde but the urea versions MUCH more so.
I’ll agree plain 3/4 osb sucks, but advantech is awesome. I work in eastern ky where it’s rainy for 3-5 months of the year and I’ve never replaced a single piece of advantech subfloor and ive replaced many plain osb and even more pieces of plywood before farming is done due to swelling and the veneer bubbling up. And as far as wall and roof sheathing you can’t go wrong with zip wall or zip roof osb. It has a waterproof membrane that is superior to anything else I’ve used, not to mention I think the zip osb seems harder and more durable than traditional osb. Point is no one in my area uses plywood for sheathing. No one. Not even contractors who build multi million dollar houses. It will be ruined before framing is done. You’ll have a better chance finding a contractor that still uses 1x sheathing boards in our area than you will plywood. A quality job in our area only uses quality osb, not plywood
Cheap osb sucks just as hard as cheap plywood, but quality osb products are better and more practical than even quality plywood. Anyone who thinks plywood is better has either never built a house in the rain or has never used a quality osb product like advantech or zip systems
Thanks for doing this comparison and pointing out the real cost differential. You are absolutely correct that both plywood and OSB can fail if they are constantly getting wet but plywood will tolerate it far better than OSB. Leave a sheet of each out in the rain for a day or two and you'll see that the OSB starts delaminating almost immediately where as the plywood will be fine. Worse yet is particle board that once wet becomes "fallaparticle" board. Complete junk. I had a guy that I was friends with in NC who told me he was using it for his roof. I told him he was nuts especially in an area noted for hurricanes where shingle damage would certainly lead to the particle board disintegrating. As you noted, there is a cost differential between plywood and OSB but in the scheme of things, is spending $1200 more on a 7000 sq-ft. framing job really that much more? There are better places to save a buck than on the structural integrity of the house.
@@arnolddavies6734 Thanks. I'd like to take credit for making up the term but I heard it from a builder years ago. Thought it was pretty funny and on the money, so much so that I never forgot it.
@@InfernosReaper Advantech for subflooring is the way to go. Years ago I used to stock houses with drywall. there was a huge difference between regular tongue and groove standard OSB and Advantech. I'm impressedhow much weight I was able to put on the cart with an Advantech floor versus a standard 3/4-in tongue and groove OSB floor.
OSB is only a little cheaper than plywood with about half the life expectancy. Not for any wet rooms, like bathroom/kitchen floors. There saved you 10 minutes.
I agree. My Garage door is 70 years old and of course even though it is painted it is exposed to the elements. I have had OSB come apart in less than 10 years with similar paint, exposure situations.
I just checked the prices of OSB over plywood, plywood is a 25% higher price per sheet over exact same dimensional sizes. only a little cheaper? Bzzz WRONG..... just for example 19/32" 4x8 sheet of OSB is $20 and plywood will run ya $25... thats not a 'little cheaper'
Great video. Very intelligent weighing of the issues and concerns. It does raise the question of, so what's better than plywood for that first bottom panel and for under windows? (You've already made a terrific case for large overhangs.)
My roofing contractor delivered OSB when I insisted on paying for Plywood. While he was working on the replacement, I spoke with the carpenters. They ALL said I had made the right choice.
Sounds like you could take a trip to Texas buy some plywood drive back to Missouri and make a ton of money and still sell cheaper than major hardware stores.
I am planning on building a shop and hall on our property. We will have multiple guests at our events. Oregon is a very moist place to keep tools and for storing property. So I think Plywood will provide the best shear strength.
One very important aspect is aging as in chemical aging of the binder. OSB will sag over time when plywood will sag much less. This is due to temperature and humidity cycles.
Another consideration is whether you are building in tornado ally. During a really nasty hailstorm (baseball sized) where I lived, newer homes with OSB on the roofs actually had hailstones penetrate the roof and a few of those penetrated the ceiling. Older homes just needed shingles. Major damage to newer ones.
@ 3:40 osb is not a naibase. $1200 difference in a 7000 square foot house? that's really nothing. Especially when you compare the nail pullout resistance between plywood and OSB, and the resistance to delamination. You mention that there is only a "little bit of difference" between small water leaks in OSB vs Plywood. I have found that not to be the case. Massive flaking failure of osb typically under improperly flashed windows and missing kickout flashing along roof/wall intersections. Plywood typically staining with minor top veneer delamination as the top veneer will initially shed the water and not sponge it like the edge of the OSB flakes. OSB have more exposed end grain on the surface because of the method its assembled. The perimeter edge of each flake is endgrain. In conclusion, i never have and never will use OSB for anything other than attic flooring for storage. Not even board up. My 42 years in residential construction and remodeling experience has shown me the path. Who remembers when strand board first showed up as Aspenite before they even began attempting to "orient" the strands?
Nails? Why don't the industry have code standards for screws in the USA or does it? Nails have been around for 1000's of years they pull out nail up drywall you get nail pop. If it was all put up with screws it can't pop. Same thing is true with outside walls nails pull out. Screws can't it has more surface area touching wood as well as the threads locking into place if its not over driven. Its not going to pull out. If your concerned with moisture on edges seal them with a paint sealer or wax something that won't come off or water can't get past. A wax impregnated OSB would be best, better would be OSB with plywood on the outside in layers. I know they make an MDF like this and its really strong.
I just had some timbers I burnt in a bonfire with Timberlock screws stuck in them because they were so hard to get out. Ahh yeah self tapping and stroooooong.
bobbg - I’ve seen screw pops in drywall too. The more I think about drywall the less I like it. It just doesn’t hold up or stand the test of time. Nail pops, screw pops, cracked seams/corners. It’s better to cover with custom wainscoting and coffered ceilings.
Also remember screws do not have good sheer strength. Here is California we are required to use nails as they can withstand earthquakes as they have better sheer strength. Screws will simply snap.
Some folks here in FL buy OSB to board up their windows during hurricanes. When it gets wet, it falls apart. FL recommends 5/8 plywood for Windows and doors.
From Denmark here. In our company we build using natural materials as far as is convenient, smart and possible. We use osb indoors and Plywood if it needs to handle more weather exposure. The reason is that Osb emits no fumes. Overall We care a lot about indoor climate in the materials we choose.
Sounds like smart money might use plywood under the windows and for the lower few feet of the framing and OSB for the rest of the house. Now, if you can match the thicknesses of these two types.....
I wouldn't build a house with the walls so close to the ground, that tends to be the first thing I see in some of those pictures you put up, # 1 mistake. If you build a slab foundation, make sure that the outside walls are well above the ground. I seen houses almost even with the ground and I see a problem with it, flooding! I don't build anymore, but I do like to watch these type programs to give me Idea's on stuff I do for myself. Thanks, keep up the good work Matt!
Matt, you left something out. I am a retired firefighter. It has been my experience that OSB is far inferior to structural integraty during fire conditions. OSB reaches it's ignition temperature far sooner than plywood because of their physical structures. Plywood being more solid. 10 - 15 years ago people had aprox. 10 minutes to escape a house fire once alerted by a smoke detector. Today, that time has decreased to 4 -6 minutes. Because of modern building products, modern synthetics used in decor increase the toxic fumes in smoke. Also, because of the glues used in OSB manufacture it burns hotter and faster than plywood. This is a danger to firefighters because it means sooner structural failure. A hotter fire also means more damage or complete loss. Too many loses in a community may change that communities ISO insurance rating and property insurance rates rise and property values decrease. So, in the long run, is OSB really cheaper?
Great info. Never thought about that angle of the discussion.
The trend around here is to use OSB (I have a few other names for it, none of them good) for roof sheathing, with clay shingles on top. OSB is not strong enough to support clay shingles. Several years ago, a firefighter was killed while on the roof of a burning house with that type of construction. The OSB gave way, and he fell through. The Phoenix, AZ Fire Chief immediately decided that no more firefighters were going to go on the roof of housing with that type of construction. Several other local Fire Chiefs quickly followed suit. But they are still building them that way.
FF here. Been there its true. Seen platform build home collapse in under 10 minutes.
Mike, great point. I am sure that OSB being made of chips, and glue has something to do with it.
I have to agree with you. Putting OSB on the outside of a home is just stupid. It will not stand up to the sun and rain like plywood, despite if it is primed and painted.
I really think this guy is pushing a product. He is either getting a push from his sponsor or he is justifying how he builds a home.
As for me, I would never put OSB on the outside of my home, regardless if it is treated. For $2 a sheet more, I would definitely go for plywood. Yes, it will cost more but what is the cost when OSB rots through and has to be replaced before plywood? As well, this never talked about the strength of the sheets: plywood is by far stronger.
Both OSB and plywood are sheathing products which do not form weather barriers, they are for structural integrity to prevent racking or deflection of other structural members, and provides fastening surfaces for insulation, vapor barriers and siding, etc.
It should have a covering over it to prevent UV damage and water infiltration. This could be stucco, vinyl plank, wood shakes, cement board, etc, but it is not an exposed surface in permitted construction.
The videographer mentioned the fastening of siding and insulation, right? The cardboard stuff sucks 'cause it won't hold a nail? Obviously corrupted, or the negative comment has no basis in reality? Remember when he mentioned nailing to the OSB or plywood? SMH
Both are formed from wood fibres and glue, though the glue may be different, or the same depending on manufacture process, the short fibres of the OSB means that if the glue is defective at all it loses all structural integrity and quickly delaminated, exposing fibres underneath to failure rapidly.
Plywood still has continuous strands of fibre across gaps, although delaminated, and will retain some structural integrity and covering over interior strands , though not much and not as robust as solid wood,
Plywood does have better resistance to racking than solid wood when the sheathing is in good condition due to fibres oriented on two axes also.
I think it is not so much the glue, but the short fibres exposed to weathering, to allow water infiltration or heat, sort of like kindling. Try burning/soaking slivers of wood compared to a wide board, it is vastly different. OK, here's a better comparison, hold a lighter (or water) to a bundle of shredded paper, a stack of paper or a pressed log of solid fibre, one will soak or burn in seconds, another in minutes, the third may be hours. Sprinkle some glue on them all, and you will get the same results.
great video. as a roofer that sheathed MANY roofs i resisted the OSB for a long time but have concluded that it works very well and as intended. it has the benefit of being cheaper and more price stable. it is also made from trees that grow rapidly on farms meaning it is as "sustainable" as all hell. all wood products fail when wetted for extended time periods...
The extra cost of sheeting with plywood is the single best upgrade you can do to your new home construction.
I learn more from reading comments than the video, from folks who used in real world scenarios.
Lol yeah take advice from people in comments, not from someone who has worked in the business for years, owns his own company and builds top-tier houses. Makes sense.
You mean take advice from those that are making a profit from a product rather than those that experience the consequences of the products being pushed?
@@davidgustafson3651 he used Osb zip sheets on his own house. People walk onto job sites thinking they’re experts, this man went to school and teaches this stuff.
@@CarlosPerez-ex3ku shhhh, be quiet
Good video! I am a builder in Australia where we have a preference for plywood other than OSB. We just treat OSB as rubbish.
I had to get windows covered for a hurricane. Bought the last of the plywood, then had to buy one sheet of OSB. This was in 2004. Got through the storms, put all the wood in the shed. Couple of years passed and I decided to use that wood for a chicken coop. The OSB was severely warped, the edges were expanding all around. The plywood was in perfect shape. 'Nuff said.
your dog looks very much like my dog who is half Siberian Husky half German Shepherd. at 13 months he weighs 70 lbs. we call him Houdini due to his uncanny ability to escape.
Good on you Ronnie in Florida! Stay dry and batten down the hatches, more storms are coming!
Correct. That's why houses are completely waterproofed from ground to ridgecap....
Ronnie in Florida
OSB today is much better than 10-15 years ago. Manufacturers discovered pretty quickly that if they can make OSB handle a bit more moisture then builders will use since most house get at least a little bit wet either while lumber is sitting there or during building.
However plywood is still superior no doubt, but today you can have it be rained on a good bit and no swelling or warping will occur like it dis just a few years ago.
@@Mark_Cook Must be a *very* recent improvement for OSB as a whole, because I've got stuff from 5 years ago that's pretty much disintegrated and older plywood that isn't.
Nice review.
In Norway we use neither. Only use (GU-gips) drywalls for outside use. The plaster boards are water repellent. It stiffens the walls in the house, and are wind protective. You have to use special tape in the joints. To make air between the boards and the wood panels (normally vertical or horizontal), you nail on 48mm batten/boards first, before nailing the wood finishing cover panels. It cost around $23 pr. sheet (normal size 1200x2700mm). On roof we use canvas/cover first, then OSB, then another canvas, then 23mm batten/boards on the studding, then 48mm boards cross nailed, then concrete roofing tiles.
@Matt: When I bought my house 30 yrs ago, my builder had ply sheeted the model home. I asked if he was doing that for our house. He said, no we use OSB it's the same and costs less. One day when I drove by "HIS" house being built, lo-and-behold, son of a bi*ch has only ply on the build. My house had not started building yet......needless to say my house is ply. "Do as they do, not as they say!" Cheers
I swear you can't trust a damn one of them. The mighty dollar is all they care about.
TCK, not true brother. Maybe most are untrustworthy but not all.
@@sirmixalot3332 As one in the construction world, self employed, I agree. My view is to do the best you can and not charge an arm or leg for it. Funny how it works out that I haven't had to look for work for over a year now. Past customers keep calling me to return for more.
All my builder buddys are about the dollar not long term
SUCKS
Why can’t builders provide a quote with different materials or at least a base cost using OSB and cost breakdowns for upgrades? If they quote you and say they are building OSB nothing wrong with that. But if they say they will use ply and build OSB that’s another thing.
In NZ you can use plywood when treated closer to the ground, where as OSB has to be a min of 550 off the GL. Plus ply just looks nicer.
why go near ground organic material it not magic
Well, I mean, the customer selected it, right? (I would assume.) As far as aesthetics, you'll never see any of that. On the interior, it'll be insulated then drywalled over, and on the outside it'll have some kind of Tyvec sheet stapled over it, and then some kind of siding over that. No one will ever see either side of the framing product (except maybe in a garage, perhaps.)
My 120 yr old home has shiplap on the interior and exterior. Shiplap is nice since no need to find a stud for hanging things. I exposed one of the walls. Sanded it down,stained and finished it. Looks amazing
My older brother was a roofer for most of his life and he said old houses that used planking (T&G for upscale and Ledger board for more modest homes) almost never had issues with leaks causing rot because they dried out so well. The 50's housing with plywood sheathing on the roof almost always had rot issues.
In the post war boom of 2week house builds, ventilation was not considered or practiced by very few!
Not until a building code standard was established, was this trend and others ( crawl aspace venting ) fazed out !
The beauty of the old uninsulated, drafty , all sawn wood structures , were that the wood got a chance to dry out !!
Picture those old attics , so hot in the summer the rafters would crack n pop as they dried to tinder level , and then so cold in winter, again drying out from the hyper dry air outside !
OSB CANT AND WON'T BE ABLE TO REPLICATE THIS ABILITY !!!!
CHEERS
Top video on a comparison between those two materials and the grades that can be attained.
Seriously this channel is quickly becoming my favoured one for information in the building industry.
Watching from the UK. Thumbs up.
hands down the best channel for the professional builder
as a do it yourself homeowner, this is my fav channel as well. I love that he explains everything from a technical standpoint as well.
Ryan p
@Ryan, you ought to look into AAC.
The main issue with osb is its weakness to point loads . When I was at jobsites to drill out for plumbing pipes through the floor , floors with osb it was easy to go through them with a large screwdriver. Also , nails can pop through , giving rise to the codes for flooring to change and mandate glue in this part of the country. But I've seen plywood perform vastly better in point load situations. Just something I've seen . Stay safe, and can't wait for your next vid 👍
Good points. Thanks for watching
Argo Tungsten 7
Argo Tungsten must be cheap "Koch bros " OSB.
OSB = “Obnoxious Splinter Board” 🩹🩸
I've always found that OSB is the second rate choice and I never used it unless specifically requested by a homeowner. Ring nails are the only ones that seem to hold in OSB while any spiral or regular nail will work great in plywood, tongue and groove or shiplap and hold just fine. I'm sure that there are some fine OSB products out there but a good quality plywood wins every time in my opinion.
did a test laid a 4 x 8 1/2" sheet of plywood on the ground with a sheet of 4 x 8 1/2" osb beside it 6 years later the plywood is still there and the osb died a few years ago.
Matt, the quality of your videos is insane!
Very good job to you and your team.
Thanks so much, that’s really kind of you!
One thing you didn't mention was resistance to wind blown debris from a tornado. There have been tests done where a 2x4 was shot at a wall sheathed with plywood versus OSB. It went right through the OSB like it wasn't there. Plywood had MUCH more resistance. Also fire resistance can be an issue. OSB and other engineered products like I-joists burn hot and fast, not leaving much time for an occupant to get out or the structure to be saved by the F.D.
I often use old plywood or OSB for target backers on a shooting range and I can tell you point blank (pun intended) that OSB does not hold up as well to bullet strikes.
Also, have you noticed that some boats are sheathed with marine grade plywood, but you never hear of marine grade OSB? CONEX container floors are made with plywood, not OSB for the same reason.
Hott Puppy As someone who has lived through dozens of hurricanes and 4 tornadoes, this fact alone would sell me!
We're talking exterior sheathing, if your concern is the osb there burning too hot and fast the occupants are LONG dead from smoke inhalation.
So why not bricks then?
@@kathyyoung1774 "dozens of hurricanes"? I would not like to live near you! Or Jim Cantore.
Excellent information always. Thank you for making these videos and testing products for us builders.
Look at the sheathing behind him. He used plywood, enough said.
also he's got it running the weak way plywood should always run with the grain across the studs
@@tboproductionsify1 so would you want the plywood grains be facing perpendicular to the force that it needs to withstand or parallel?
@@MeisterSexy11 Based on splitting logs with an axe, I can split a log with the grain much easier than against. However, plywood layers are cross grain or perpendicular thus giving strength from either direction. The most strength would be against the apparent grain with an odd number of layers and equal with an even number of layers.
@@tboproductionsify1 The plys in plywood are layered perpendicularly. So it really doesn't matter much.
If you're using 4 ply plywood it doesn't matter which way the grain goes 5/8 or 3/4 with 5 ply I would run with the surface ply perpendicular to framing because 3 of those plys are running the 8 foot length and the other 2 are running the width if that makes sense.
Great informative videos, if I was teaching classes on construction and design, these videos would be required watching, along with text books.
In Scandinavia we only use these for the interior part of the house, mostly for extra support of hanging things on the walls or for sound absorbing, and then we have plasterboard as another layer also. That's why we always go with OSB, since it's not exterior.
Normally we use wood panels since, well we have alot of wood.
I also think plywood is a little more forgiving when you cut it with a saw, and doesn't flake like OSB. Also worth mentioning is I've gotten my worst splinters with OSB vs. Plywood LOL.
Try siding a house with redwood and then talk about splinters.
Your ignorant as can be.
Thank you, very educational! Especially since I see a lot of new homes sitting water on the OSB floors while they are in the framing stage.
As a 50 year veteran of the carpentry trade, I'd like to add my two-cents worth. During that time frame, I've torn apart quite a pile of water damaged buildings. By very far, the worse damage all around, was on OSB sheathed buildings. I wouldn't use OSB on a bird house. Horrible nasty stuff, and the brand makes no difference whatsoever, I don't care what any mfg. brags, it's all crap. I could list tons of reasons it's crap, but space is limited. The argument that it costs too much is a bs argument. So maybe it might cost $1,500 over the house. Big deal. Ask yourself how much you're spending on the rest of the house, then compare. The same folks who blubber about the extra cost of plywood, don't even blink at a $2,000+ counter top!
Yep, OSB is garbage. The only place I find it is okay is where stairs, etc come together into a basement - the back end of the stairs. I prefer to have it covered and straight. That way I am not knocking my head into a jagged staircase if and when I have to service the furnace. I can bump it off a sort of inverted ramp. But, to be honest, I use plywood there too.
I agree. I put hardwood down on a house with osb subflooring and it was a dog to work with. Undulations all over the damn place. Had to put in more levelling compound than usual. Hated it.
I own a "Craftsman" type home built in 1950. ( Southern Wisconsin Madison area) Everything is 1 inch tong and grove plank sheeting the sides and even roof decking, The frame is the real 2x4's. Everything is still strait and level tough as heck. I just had a new roof put on and the roofer said he has never seen a tong and grove roof. I know the guy that built the place was quite the carpenter / farmer construction. Whats your take.
Same experience for me as a roofer when young and an HVAC guy now. OSB is notorious for fast spreading dry rot.
This is what I suspected. We don't build like this in Queensland and I just don't understand why they do in America. It just looks like you're adding problems to your build.
Osb price way up this year. May as well use plywood.
Try AAC.
*Matt, I want to say thank you for your videos. I'm working my way up to being a sales rep for McCoy's and have learned a lot about what certain materials are used for, and about some lesser known materials, from your channel.*
Thank you.
Fantastic Video! Great job with the cost breakdown. Would love to see more videos like this!
We have some details in the den on the edge of some cabinets of osb built in 1958. It was a brand new hi tech product and the architect wanted to show off this new product in his house. Still looks great! And you’re so right, pay attention to the details and building materials will last a long time. 62 years now and not a speck of rot anywhere.
Often the first iteration of any product is overbuilt, its later down the road that they start cutting corners.
When I was framing apartments, and the fork lift brought up the new cube of OSB, we would chuck the first 3 sheets or so. It was what we were told to do. It just didn't handle the weather. Never did that with CDX ply, and the OSB was not dimensionally stable. The factory reps were telling us to space it 1/8", but it measured over 96".
There's a difference between both products that doesn't effect house framing. But it will in other projects. When cut into small pieces osb can have very weak areas where the chips arrange themselves in an ineffective pattern. These areas can be a real problem in craft projects.
I can't comprehend skimping on $1200 when building a new house.- no freaking way!
If you are a developer and building a 700 unit development-I'll let you do the math.
@a w You are right on. We built our house in 2005 and our builder was from China but we didn't allow him using any materials that came from there. We used things from USA, Italy, and few other countries. During that time we heard stories of peoples having problems with sheet rocks from Cheena....Bottom line is "you get what you pay for" always watch when you hire someone to do the works. It's your hard earned money. Be safe and Happy New Year.
Your typical McMansion developer skimps FAR more on materials than that.
Even more so talking $1200 on a 7000sf house.
Loving the videos Matt! Any chance a video about the economics of building a home is coming? I’m interested to know the costs vs benefits when buying vs building
Interesting and valuable comparison, thankyou. We, in Australia, tend not to clad the entire house in ply(orOSB) but only brace the corners! But again flashings and attention to detail are the keys.
Today it's a huge difference. OSB bottom tier is $15. 1/2" 3 ply wood is $35. That is forcing us to use OSB. Personally, I used it when it was cheap and plywood was cheap and I hated it. This was almost 20 years ago. They sold it as the new better version but working with it was crappy and it definitely smells weird. I am redoing my cottage that is almost a hundred years old and was converted at some point from carriage to cottage. I plan on siding it so I am just going to do the OSB with WRB and clapboard. I also plan on doing what was suggested in one of his other videos regarding insulating old homes and creating an air flow to dry/prevent mold while insulating as much as possible. These channel has definitely been a huge help.
I sure wish I could get plywood for 18 bucks a sheet now...
4' x 2 ' costs USD3.60 my country :)
$62 for a 4x8 5/8 panel right now where I am... It's crazy
Just repaired a house from the 80's with some Plywood and some with OSB and Carpentor ants and termites love Osb aka particular board. The love small pieces of wood especially soft woods. After being in the business for 20 years I am not a fan of OSB but do use it only when customers are not willing to spend the extra five dollars a sheet.
lol I'm a remodeler too an lets face it people are cheep we compete against Joe blow with hammer an a truck we got to cut cost to get the job what do you do? an trust me 99 out of 100 people only look at ur price I swear I can here cheep cheep from most people. so don't blame us bout osb or plywood. I just once want to walk into a job an here a home owner go don't worried bout cost lets do this super right. or one who will pay 80 grand for a tree house cus I know for hands down fact I can build way better then that tv show lol
I think the big difference between OSB and plywood would be linear shear strength. Put a piece of OSB across an elevated surface on one end and stomp on it and it will fracture much easier than plywood.
very true, but that's not the kind of forces plywood or osb is expected to withstand. first and foremost, both products are substrates that will be covered with flooring/roofing/siding. and for support, they have joists/rafters/studs behind them. their structural integrity is when they've been properly nailed to the earlier stated support material, and the resistance to "racking" it provides. they both do a fine job keeping straight walls straight and squared buildings square. penetration/fracture isn't really a building concern you'd apply to sub sheeting. there shouldn't be anything striking your home with that kind of force... unless a tree hits your roof, and in that case, no amount of sheeting is gonna save you from damage.
david pape OSB strength is not in its bending properties. OSB strength is in its lateral properties. If you were to elevate a 2 x 12 by 10 ft and stand on it it would hold your weight however a 2 x 12 truss would snap but yet the trust is stronger than the 2 by 12 on vertical loads. OSB is a superior Shear product.
I am currently building a new shop, and using OSB under metal cladding both inside and out.
I would have used plywood, but I live in grain farming country in the middle of nowhere. The lumber yards here actually have a really hard time getting quality wood products. The spruce plywood they've been able to source was such poor quality, that they ended up only selling fir plywood. And fir plywood vs OSB is about double the cost, and that does add up. That metal cladding (provided all the flashing is done right) is really a good system, so I'm not overly worried about having used OSB
As a master carpenter I would never build a house that I was going to live in out of OSB.
Shouldn't build one for a client like that either. I pass on jobs that spec this trash
I recommend you read a book called "The Three Little Pigs"
Nice one!
G PCM Took me a second or two, but 😀
Yea build with stone. And not just veneer stone that stuff is shit
agreed
LOL
I don't know when sheathing houses became common but to my knowledge it's quite common to find old houses from the turn of the 20th century and before where clapboards were attached directly to the studs with no sheathing underneath.
Down south they still do that...
Brandon Upchurch I'm from New York City but I moved all around the country I've seen what you're talking about in Louisiana
That's very common in my area on the east coast of Canada, the clapboard was nailed directly to the studs but they were sheathed inside with 8" 3/4 straightedge board
Doesn't that require diagonal cross-bracing in most places now? I've seen only houses with a diagonal stud embedded in the vertical studwork, but I suppose the modern alternative is to put diagonal steel strapping on one side or the other.
They did that in my 100+ year old house. Rough cut actual 2x4s. Cross blocking more than once in nearly every single joist bay. And a diagonal 1x4 across major walls. With the clapboard nailed on with massive old 20 penny nails. It's an old way to build it but it's standing fine here in a seismic zone with just some minor plaster cracking. No weird expansion or contraction noises either.
I use the the best ! 3/4 marine grade teak plywood for my wall sheathing on my garden shed
Rich man
Excellent practical advice for choosing sheathing, and your giving the history of home-building in the USA was top-notch! Thanks so much for this!
DryPly superior for subfloor over advantech. DryPly is great for long frame times in wet weather. You are 1000% correct as far as wall sheathing except for using staples in OSB which is against code in most parts of the country now. The key is proper flashing and sealing your exterior before any siding goes on. Water penetration is a house killer.
Hi Matt! Very informative video. Could you please let me know about the termite resistance for both of these materials? How much of a difference does it make by picking one over the other?
Use Bora Care for this
I used 1x pine on a diagonal that was left over from milling dimensional lumber for my sheathing.
Can we rewind 2 years to these prices now 😂
*$60 sheet of 5/8 plywood*
39$ a sheet for osb
Exactly!!
@@sorgism yupp. Around $36 here. Its Ridiculous
65 for 7/16 up here
I had a garage built in SouthCarolina and they sheathed it with osb...So the fellas had it all framed an just a bit to have all the sheathing done..It started sprinkling and I asked if they would cover the roof before all the sheathing was soaked.They replied"oh it will be fine"..Well after the rain stopped and the sun came out the next day ,the osb started swelling up...Great stuff..Not! So the attic floor was buckled and it looked like thick hair was standing up..Well it was particles of the osb popping loose ..So I swept it twice with a stiff bristle broom and vacumed it..To this day when u walk on the attic floor the wood particles pop up.To me its just about two steps better than particle board after it gets wet period.So dry in your building and have plastic ready to cover it or have saggy nasty sheathing...
Matt, another downside aspect of OSB is the toxic glue that it's made with. I've been in houses where you can still smell the OSB off gassing years later. I'm chemically sensitive and there is a huge difference between the offgas and toxicity of the two products in my opinion.
Plywood isn't glued together? LoL
@@TaylorHaubrich yeah years later he can smell osb off gassing. Thru the drywall, insulation, thru the paint, and all the plumbing glue and carpet and all the cooking that's been done in the house, not to mention pet odors and laundry smells , fireplaces, etc etc this guy can sniff out glue used in osb, even tho he can't actually even see the osb, he can tell the difference between glue in osb and plywood. Lmao. Have you EVER heard such bs in your life?
I might use OSB to use as a walkway over a muddy yard, but it won't go on any house that I'm building.
HELLRAISER amen
Hell, I wouldn't even use for that!
As I understand it the fumes emitted from Plywood should not be used indoors. Osb does not emit anything.
OSB is a little cheaper, but they charge you full price for the house -- the difference in cost goes into the builder's pocket. Any cut edge, or drilled or nail hole in OSB is wide open for moisture absorption (any waterproof coating is only on the original surface), which causes it to swell; it takes longer to dry out than plywood, and the swelling never shrinks down. If it's made from aspen or poplar, it has ZERO decay resistance. OTOH, most builders will never live in the houses they build, so what do they care?
The builder I worked for used treated plywood on the bottom two feet of the sheathing to help prevent rot.
Then that would make him a good builder. Those are few and far between.
Maybe run some activated Fibreglass resin over the lower quarter of the sheathing on both sides with a roller prior install off site allowing same to cure, then bring onto site to use on those bottom sections, there no way same will take in moisture ..bit like a hull of a boat...
When I replaced my bathroom's subfloor, I used plywood..... Because I know better than to use crappy OSB.
(Oriented Strand Board (OSB) - Terms and Definitions, Classification and Specifications) defines following classes:
OSB/1 - for general use in dry conditions, especially decorative applications.
OSB/2 - for load-bearing structures in dry conditions.
OSB/3 - for load-bearing structures in damp conditions.
OSB/4 - for heavy load-bearing structures in dry or damp conditions.
I always use OSB/3 and have never had a problem with those boards. I don't live in the usa so I don't know if the quality there is the same as here in Belgium, but I suppose it is. you should always check the classification when you buy osb plates
I remember being my grandparents' house in Chicago (a bungalow) built in ~1928 had ship lap roof covering with tarpaper and then asphalt shingles.
Very typical for older homes to have shiplap/grove 1x6 decking for the roof. See it all the time, though much of its in pretty bad shape now plus many of the knot holes have fallen out.
In Germany this would only be considered for the most basic room dividing.. Brickwall or concrete is the main building material...
In America we lv to cut down trees
The simple reason it's used is because it's cheaper than plywood.
You could have started with the price comparison and had another 10 minutes to get something else done. My shiplap sided home caught fire and on complete rebuild I used OSB vertically and plywood everywhere else. They were both much cheaper in 1996, I almost fell over when I saw your current prices. I purposely left some OSB around to get wet in the rain and was surprised it did not swell as much as I thought it would over an extended period. But it was drying out after each rain event. The 2nd and 3rd owners of my new house were, are both very happy. I visited a couple months ago. The roof sheathing is flatter than most buliders' floors.Sorry, nobody needs a 7000 square foot home. Braggin' rights and small p#$@!%s.....
Horizontal shiplap boards provide minimal resistance to racking. I recently finished fixing an old barn that had stud walls with shiplap siding which had racked about 10 degrees from plum. The resistance to racking of the walls should be accomplished by using diagonal lumber at the corners.
I used OSB here in Mexico and it is twice the price here- I used it to build a choza. And inside I used joint compound over it and you cannot tell what it is- it doesn’t rain here except once a year.
OSB won't hold a nail. For $1200 dollars saved over the cost of building an entire house it is nothing. True...you put the $1200 in your pocket but your client gets a shit built house. And you know it.
blipco5 I almost stopped watching when he recommended it.
K....And he said it with a straight face.
So the 2x2 batten fixed with 3 inch nails to the sheet of OSB I have in the garage shouldn't exist then yeah? I can tell you now it's not coming off any time soon.
Just get it wet, I dare you!!!
blipco5 as long as you properly waterproof your project you should have no trouble. I’ve seen dumb things done by hard working men because they don’t understand principles of waterproofing. These guys caulk between old siding planks and nail vinyl siding down good and tight. They are smart but not professional. A house I just remodeled had problems because the renovator decided to torque the toilets down to the plastic flange with an impact driver. Leaks are caused by men who mean well, but in theory there should be no problem with OSB.
I've seen some old houses built with ship-lap at a 45 degree angle..Lots more cutting an wastage, but talk about a rock solid house..
Long duk Dong I'm popping the corn.
Long duk Dong that's too bad, you were doing well.
Shit lap is for sheds NOT houses! Get a life, build it from brick, cement block or like they do in Yorkshire ... Stone! We even have brick shithouses! Who the hell wants a crappy wooden fire trap?
Bob Lewis: Most of the stories I've seen about new construction, or even damaged buildings built over the past 40 years involve either those 4" aerated light blocks (with non-structural brick on the outside) or occasionally wood framing and brick veneer, like what we often use in the USA. I'm sure that's strong enough to keep the roof up, but neither seems intended to last the ages.
Same. Ship lap on exterior and interior. When we pulled down the interior ,yes it was a massive job, we found every wall had X bracing. Extremely stiff house.
We pulled the SL from the inside walls to run new plumbing and electrical and yes we put it back up
I didn't realize builders were using that cardboard stuff. Not being used at all around my area thank goodness.
Same here, we have earthquakes. That stuff can't have any sheer.
I'm in the midwest. I'm not a builder but I've certainly driven past a lot of new construction. I've never seen that product. Looks pretty crappy.
Never seen cardboard. But around here I have seen them only use sheating on the corners and then just house wrap + wire mesh and stucco (no sheathing).
@@Rickmakes I'm in the building supply business. Around Central Indiana almost everyone of the semi custom home builders, Pulte, M/I, Arbor, is using that ramboard to one degree or another. Hell we used to supply to this one home builder(pretty big one too) that used to use OSB 4 ft from each corner and the rest of it was 1/2" blue Dowboard 😂
They mostly put the cardboard sheets when the house is going to be outta bricks and stone
Mr. Risinger, If You wish to say to your grandkids some day that You built that house, I recommend building it brick house in concrete framing (columns in corners of the wall and beams above brick walls). You know, like in Europe. All the best to you. Great channel.
A little of topic but last time I was in a newly framed house I was surprised to see all the studs were made of short pieces of wood no more than 2 ft glued together. You wouldn't think that is strong but apparently it works.
osb should be used only under a dumpster to protect the home owner from being ripped off. That is the best thing I can say about it,
bottom line is do your homework with your builder...
because no matter what you pay for if it's not protected correctly you just wasted your money...
even if it passes all the building Inspection and codes doesn't mean it is just right.. you need a builder that takes pride in their work... that even if it's not code required they'll go the extra mile and take the time to do it right....... just my thoughts.....
100% agreement
Is this for the outside surfaces of the house? Here in sweden I have seen weather proof drywall used with styrofoam insulation and plaster on top of it.
Good point! My wife and I have been interviewing several builders. First, homeowners need to educate themselves; it takes several years to understand the fundamentals of building construction technology and methodologies. After being equipped with this knowledge, homeowners should feel comfortable and not intimidated to begin "interviewing" builders and asking hard questions such as: "What do you do with any surplus of materials?" I have found that this question gets under their skin and talks to the heart of integrity. If they become defensive, they disqualified themselves.
I really think the idea you present in this video of using pressure treated plywood in the first 2 feet should be the standard in the wet Texas gulf coast. ruclips.net/video/H4eUGi4uWgM/видео.html
julio Angel I like the way you think, Julio. You make good points and have the right perspective on better builders and their commitment to quality and accountability.
I prefer 5/8" CDX plywood with waterproof glue and 2X6 Studs especially if you want the building to last decades.
"...If you want it to last decades" doesn't account for any real hazards. Try AAC.
I agree, definitely 2*6 studs on the exterior of the house. And 3/4" plywood for the flooring and if the budget allows 3/4" plywood on the exterior walls covered with Tyveck house wrap.
@@juliorosenberg9968 23/32 plywood for flooring is perfect. Great quality and makes for a firm tough stable floor.
2x6 studs really only have to do with filling the insulation cavity to code for new building..I’ve worked on 200+ year old homes that are still standing and in great shape with 2x4 studs
Here in the UK our company buys OSB3 (the highest moisture resistance grade) for £14/sheet. That's for 3/4" 4' x 8' sheets, a similar sheathing grade of plywood is around £25 so it's a no brainer here.
You can always spray a good quality sealer for decking on the materials thereby preventing mold mildew and rotting from small leaks. I tried that on a small addition by painting all six sides of the plywood prior to putting it up and on any areas that had to be cut. I have found there was no warping or nails coming loose. ALso did that on the T111 siding with better results.
I'm a young old schooler and Ive seen what they're willing to sell as material, I'm all CDX unless its planned to be cheap in which case I'm not interested. Marine grade in sensitive areas because my customers expect it.
If your doing the math on $2 a sheet I dont want to even see what the finish will look like.
Like you said, show your grandkids what quality over quantity looks like. I've seen enough mushrooms growing out of 10 year old structures.
Haha! Yeah as soon as he started talking about price difference adding up he disqualified himself as a quality builder. Geez, you saved half a mortgage payment on a 7000 sf house? THAT will make the buyer happy.
He did mention that he used 5/8" plywood on the house.
You seriouly have no idea what your talking about.....marine grade in a house? Lol right
What about glue content? I always assumed OSB has alot more glue creating Volotile Organic Compounds that are toxic to our health.
Exactly, that was my main concern about OSB, not many people are commenting on that.
I feel like houses are now built like the crap furniture in Walmart.
Architect here. I refuse to specify OSB in any of my custom home builds - plywood only. OSB is often referred to as "Vertical Compost"...
Whats a step above plywood? For longevity.
@@designstudio8013 Thanks Studio.
After watching two brothers building twin houses side by side. One was typical house with OSB all over, the other house used plywood. With identical windows, doors, insulation the plywood house was definitely a much quieter interior. The OSB house had traditional 2x10 or 12 floor joists. Plywood house got engineered floor trusses. While waiting for some products to come in they decided to get truss maker to measure floor sag under load.
And the floor trusses glued and screwed, with adhesive and plywood screwed every 6 in the floor was deflecting thousandths of inches with BACKHOES driving over floor. Other house, had much more deflection and actually the OSB flooring needed some pieces replaced.
They had water run off from small pond levy break( it was slated to be drained but hadn't been done yet) OSB house had to have lots of water damaged sheets replaced.
Plywood project got away with minimal damage and actually dried out quite well.
As many state limited use if OSB makes me happier.
DemolitionRanch / off the ranch brought me here. Buying my first house soon... Looking forward to the renovations. You're like a new age Bob Vila! I'm going to be watching this channel a lot!
5:10 why are you comparing it to the cost of a monthly mortgage instead of the total price of the house.
$1,200 of $600,000 is not a lot
Because his "friends" sell OSB.
"That's more than half my mortgage payment". Dude that almost twice my mortgage payment.
$1200 over even $100K is nothing either
@@vanspookyduke x's 3 here. Ouch. lol
I'm currently rebuilding a 150 year old house in Scotland. I decided the extra cost of plywood to be worth it.
I wish you would have addressed the off-gasing of these two. OSB is more toxic than plywood.
All exterior products have some degree of toxicity
I'm Michigan it blows up like a balloon.
@@hammer181 **more**
Exterior grades of sheathing all use phenol-formaldehyde resin. Interior grades use urea-formaldehyde resin. There are minor variations. All release formaldehyde but the urea versions MUCH more so.
@@hammer181 I didn't know that plywood was toxic.
Plywood will retain strength after water damage every osb floor that got flooded I had to tear up doing restoration it popped and deformed
chadwick hayes checkout advantech
Coming soon to the Build Show
SigneM-Prut#1 u have a link?
I’ll agree plain 3/4 osb sucks, but advantech is awesome. I work in eastern ky where it’s rainy for 3-5 months of the year and I’ve never replaced a single piece of advantech subfloor and ive replaced many plain osb and even more pieces of plywood before farming is done due to swelling and the veneer bubbling up. And as far as wall and roof sheathing you can’t go wrong with zip wall or zip roof osb. It has a waterproof membrane that is superior to anything else I’ve used, not to mention I think the zip osb seems harder and more durable than traditional osb. Point is no one in my area uses plywood for sheathing. No one. Not even contractors who build multi million dollar houses. It will be ruined before framing is done. You’ll have a better chance finding a contractor that still uses 1x sheathing boards in our area than you will plywood. A quality job in our area only uses quality osb, not plywood
Cheap osb sucks just as hard as cheap plywood, but quality osb products are better and more practical than even quality plywood. Anyone who thinks plywood is better has either never built a house in the rain or has never used a quality osb product like advantech or zip systems
I did OSB for a garage. Because it's a garage. My house was built in the 1890s, and it's ship lap. Solid!
Thanks for doing this comparison and pointing out the real cost differential. You are absolutely correct that both plywood and OSB can fail if they are constantly getting wet but plywood will tolerate it far better than OSB. Leave a sheet of each out in the rain for a day or two and you'll see that the OSB starts delaminating almost immediately where as the plywood will be fine. Worse yet is particle board that once wet becomes "fallaparticle" board. Complete junk. I had a guy that I was friends with in NC who told me he was using it for his roof. I told him he was nuts especially in an area noted for hurricanes where shingle damage would certainly lead to the particle board disintegrating. As you noted, there is a cost differential between plywood and OSB but in the scheme of things, is spending $1200 more on a 7000 sq-ft. framing job really that much more? There are better places to save a buck than on the structural integrity of the house.
“Fallaparticle “ board. Love it .well said
@@arnolddavies6734 Thanks. I'd like to take credit for making up the term but I heard it from a builder years ago. Thought it was pretty funny and on the money, so much so that I never forgot it.
So my choices are plywood, sawdust, and cardboard.
all these ppl bashin OSB, one word: Advantech
@@linds22481 You mean that stuff that costs twice what plywood does? At that price, it'd better be at least halfway decent...
@@InfernosReaper Advantech for subflooring is the way to go. Years ago I used to stock houses with drywall. there was a huge difference between regular tongue and groove standard OSB and Advantech. I'm impressedhow much weight I was able to put on the cart with an Advantech floor versus a standard 3/4-in tongue and groove OSB floor.
there is also 1x6 T&G or shiplap for both of which i wouldn't hesitate to use for a second
AAC, my dude.
OSB is only a little cheaper than plywood with about half the life expectancy. Not for any wet rooms, like bathroom/kitchen floors. There saved you 10 minutes.
I agree. My Garage door is 70 years old and of course even though it is painted it is exposed to the elements. I have had OSB come apart in less than 10 years with similar paint, exposure situations.
It used to be about half as much.
It breaks down under foot traffic.... It is not quieter, not sure where you came up with that.
I just checked the prices of OSB over plywood, plywood is a 25% higher price per sheet over exact same dimensional sizes. only a little cheaper? Bzzz WRONG..... just for example 19/32" 4x8 sheet of OSB is $20 and plywood will run ya $25... thats not a 'little cheaper'
Syc holic, if five bucks is that much money to you, go with OSB. Imho it's false economy.
From a European perspective where most buildings are built with concrete and/or bricks this OSB/plywood comparison is surreal.
European houses always look 50 years old
@@Snelliscool that really depends on the neighborhood.
@@Snelliscool That's not a problem... many are over 100 years old anyway !
Great video. Very intelligent weighing of the issues and concerns. It does raise the question of, so what's better than plywood for that first bottom panel and for under windows? (You've already made a terrific case for large overhangs.)
My roofing contractor delivered OSB when I insisted on paying for Plywood. While he was working on the replacement, I spoke with the carpenters. They ALL said I had made the right choice.
So TLDW, pay more for weather sealing and water proofing than worry about sheathing material. And don't use cardboard.
dont know where you guys by osb or plywood , but in s missouri osb is about 15.00,a sheet and plywood 5/8 is pushing 50.00 a sheet..
Sounds like you could take a trip to Texas buy some plywood drive back to Missouri and make a ton of money and still sell cheaper than major hardware stores.
You did not mention the choice of cdx plywood between yellow pine and doug fir ... doug fir cdx cost more but is my preference for all reasons ...
I am planning on building a shop and hall on our property. We will have multiple guests at our events. Oregon is a very moist place to keep tools and for storing property. So I think Plywood will provide the best shear strength.
One very important aspect is aging as in chemical aging of the binder. OSB will sag over time when plywood will sag much less. This is due to temperature and humidity cycles.
Another consideration is whether you are building in tornado ally. During a really nasty hailstorm (baseball sized) where I lived, newer homes with OSB on the roofs actually had hailstones penetrate the roof and a few of those penetrated the ceiling. Older homes just needed shingles. Major damage to newer ones.
Are you a roof inspector? Did you climb up on the roofs to verify if it had osb or plywood? Basball sized hail? You full of s#$%t!!
@ 3:40 osb is not a naibase. $1200 difference in a 7000 square foot house? that's really nothing. Especially when you compare the nail pullout resistance between plywood and OSB, and the resistance to delamination. You mention that there is only a "little bit of difference" between small water leaks in OSB vs Plywood. I have found that not to be the case. Massive flaking failure of osb typically under improperly flashed windows and missing kickout flashing along roof/wall intersections. Plywood typically staining with minor top veneer delamination as the top veneer will initially shed the water and not sponge it like the edge of the OSB flakes. OSB have more exposed end grain on the surface because of the method its assembled. The perimeter edge of each flake is endgrain. In conclusion, i never have and never will use OSB for anything other than attic flooring for storage. Not even board up. My 42 years in residential construction and remodeling experience has shown me the path. Who remembers when strand board first showed up as Aspenite before they even began attempting to "orient" the strands?
Great comments from a wise old builder. Thanks
Nails? Why don't the industry have code standards for screws in the USA or does it?
Nails have been around for 1000's of years they pull out nail up drywall you get nail pop.
If it was all put up with screws it can't pop. Same thing is true with outside walls nails pull out. Screws can't it has more surface area touching wood as well as the threads locking into place if its not over driven. Its not going to pull out. If your concerned with moisture on edges seal them with a paint sealer or wax something that won't come off or water can't get past. A wax impregnated OSB would be best, better would be OSB with plywood on the outside in layers. I know they make an MDF like this and its really strong.
I just had some timbers I burnt in a bonfire with Timberlock screws stuck in them because they were so hard to get out. Ahh yeah self tapping and stroooooong.
bobbg - I’ve seen screw pops in drywall too. The more I think about drywall the less I like it. It just doesn’t hold up or stand the test of time. Nail pops, screw pops, cracked seams/corners. It’s better to cover with custom wainscoting and coffered ceilings.
Also remember screws do not have good sheer strength. Here is California we are required to use nails as they can withstand earthquakes as they have better sheer strength. Screws will simply snap.
Metal stud and gypsum board sheathing. No bugs better fire rating just as strong if not stronger
Some folks here in FL buy OSB to board up their windows during hurricanes. When it gets wet, it falls apart. FL recommends 5/8 plywood for Windows and doors.
From Denmark here. In our company we build using natural materials as far as is convenient, smart and possible. We use osb indoors and Plywood if it needs to handle more weather exposure. The reason is that Osb emits no fumes. Overall We care a lot about indoor climate in the materials we choose.
So you have a framed piece of osb in your dining room?
Sounds like smart money might use plywood under the windows and for the lower few feet of the framing and OSB for the rest of the house.
Now, if you can match the thicknesses of these two types.....
That cardboard stuff reminders me of Celotex that was used in construction in the sixties. Junk.
I wouldn't build a house with the walls so close to the ground, that tends to be the first thing I see in some of those pictures you put up, # 1 mistake. If you build a slab foundation, make sure that the outside walls are well above the ground. I seen houses almost even with the ground and I see a problem with it, flooding! I don't build anymore, but I do like to watch these type programs to give me Idea's on stuff I do for myself. Thanks, keep up the good work Matt!
what i liked most about watching this video in 2022 is when he started talking about pricing!