tl;dr: There may be proofs that you'll always lose at a generalized mathematical model of Tetris, but things aren't quite so bleak when it comes to real-world versions of the game. While the video seems to imply that 7 Bag randomization is a bit of a double-edged sword and that memoryless randomization would let you skirt by on luck, it's kind of the opposite -- Bag randomization is one of the features that makes the game stable and ensures the possibility of indefinite play. The alternating S/Z pattern needs to be dealt in a _much_ greater volume than a 7 Bag allows in order to cause any degree of strife. The paper "How to Lose at Tetris" assumes a memoryless (non-Bag) randomizer that -- given an infinite sequence of pieces, that presumably contains all possible permutations of pieces as subsequences -- will eventually come across an adversarial alternating S/Z sequence of sufficient length to force a game to end. Moreover, the paper assumes a generalized version of the game that uses a mathematically true source of randomness. Real-world implementations of Tetris use Pseudo-Random Number Generators (PRNG) -- that is to say, a mathematical formula with output that _appears_ random. Given that computers behave deterministically, PRNG are the best way to produce chaotic output without an external source of true randomness. As such, it would in fact be possible to pre-determine the random sequence* the PRNG produces and rule out the existence of an adversarial S/Z sequence. *(One exception might be something like NES Tetris, where randomization is also affected by entropy collected from variation in player input timing. In that case, you could say that a theoretical perfect player actually has _more_ freedom to play forever, given they have a tool to manipulate the pieces being distributed. Considering the case with a human player, though, it adds an element of unpredictability that clouds our ability to determine whether it is possible for an adversarial sequence to be generated.) Also, the "very relaxed features you can enable in some versions of the game" are in fact part of the standardized ruleset featured in essentially all licensed Tetris games from 2001 onward; 7 Bag randomization, multi-preview, and Hold swap are now bog standard, and it's now uncommon to be able to play _without_ them. The "Playing Forever" proof serves less as an actual optimal playing strategy and more as a demonstration of the guaranteed stability of the current standard ruleset. The solution was recently generalized to play at instant drop speeds (see harddrop.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=7096&view=findpost&p=83947 ), so it isn't even necessary to make a provision that the game remain at low speeds -- modern Tetris is solved. Anyway, the theory of endless games aside, many versions of Tetris have endgame goals or win conditions. A couple instances are featured in this video: for instance, *****'s performance on Tetris: The Grand Master 3, and NOV's performance on Tetris: The Grand Master 2+. There are also some like NES Tetris that tread a fine line; NES has an implicit ending in that the play speed beyond Level 29 cannot humanly be sustained, and an implicit win condition in that there is a maximum point value of 999,999 points.
What a crazy coincidence. I just started getting obsessed with Tetris again. The other night when I was going to bed I was half asleep playing Tetris in my head. Just like, making it up. It took me awhile to realize what I was doing. I think I'm going crazy.
I've experienced the Tetris Effect in another game. After playing Portal 2 for an unhealthy amount of hours, I can no longer see a white wall around me without immediately thinking about placing a portal in there XD
Same with me and my Zelda game I got majoras mask from my sister and after playing with it for 200 hours on weeks on end all I saw when I was by myself in the dark inside my room was the masked salesman and the skull kid I had nightmares for weeks
@Arturo Gutierrez, do not forget about another similar game that has a similar effect that is called Lumines. Also, coincidentally, the creator of that franchise also worked with the people that make, as well as own, Tetris, games to make a version of that game that combines Tetris with his game as well, plus it also throws in a VR option as well. The name of that game is called, appropriately enough, Tetris Effect.
I think the appeal of Tetris is due to its easy-to-learn, but hard-to-master "effect". As you said one can easily "get it" and play it and whenever he/she fails have the feeling "I'll do better next time and beat my score!" and try again and again and again....
Question Mark here - inventor of one of the playing forever methods you referred to at 5:53. Several important misconceptions to clear up. 3:36: For starters, that pattern there does not have an even piece distribution - there are two I, T, and O pieces. Also, why does having a pattern that's only 8 tiles wide matter? There are plenty of patterns that are 9 or 10 tiles wide, to say nothing of the fact that Tetris usually involves filling in holes and not tiling pieces perfectly. It says at 3:47 that you have to deal with those 2 columns as if it's significant - while the clip shows someone stacking 9 tiles across. 5:36: No, that doesn't happen with the Bag randomiser. The sequence Burgiel describes is not 3 or 4 consecutive S/Z pieces but *70,000* of them. (See how the animation has back-to-back S/Z pieces?) But any more than 5 pieces is literally impossible, because Bag never gives you more than one S and one Z per bag. If you start from zero, you get one of each every seven pieces. If you look at 7,000 consecutive pieces starting on any bag, you will get 1,000 of each, exactly. Finally, at 5:53-6:06 you seem to be implying that the techniques to "feasibly" play forever are similarly doomed to fail because of the S/Z sequences, and we can never be perfect. Since you bring up the requirements for being able to play forever... they include Bags, meaning you never get a kill sequence. The original method by colour_thief, tepples, and Pineapple (animation at 5:14) was proved rigourously - it works, perfectly, forever. (Also, frankly speaking, the conditions aren't _that_ relaxed - they're pretty standard to most modern Tetris games.)
DoctorQuestionMark Hey QM! I agree with this post. d(◐◡◐) If you're interested, I also outlined whether it's possible to make similar determinations regarding adversarial S/Z sequences for non-Bag randomizers over here: ruclips.net/user/all_comments?v=-MfUEy7biJc&lc=z13vddj4atjlthirc04ch5gznlqjghjx4h0
I also want to point out that you don't need to play perfectly to play forever you just need your burn rate to be faster than your error rate. For example if you can burn 4 lines for every piece misplacement then the screen will not fill up to the top.
This video is an absolute tetris goldmine even in 2021! I can't believe that I still stumble upon such awesome Tetris videos after I was sure to have seen them all.
This is anything but an awesome video, it's completely wrong for modern tetris. A run of SZ pieces is guaranteed to eventually make you in the original version, but you need literally thousands in a row. The max you can get in the newer versions is 4 which doesn't bother even average players one bit.
@@d4ve19 Well about the quality of the content that's your opinion and I stated mine. And I stand by it. I don't think when explaining the theoretical Z-S concept, he was referring to guideline Tetris at all. A bit unfortunate that he introduced the snake sequence immediately after introducing the guideline 7-bag randomizer. But at 5:10 he even shows the S-Z sequence probabilities with the 7-bag. So, I don't see your point at all.
I played the DS version until I hit 99,999,999.. I'm can attest to this "seeing tetris shapes in real life" effect.. also hearing tetris music everywhere I go. Same problem I had with Pokémon's bike riding theme when I was younger. Ahh, good times.
3:37 I don't see how this is a problem - the 'perfect arrangement' is five high, so tilt it on its side and you can fit two next to each other, filling the well perfectly?
It's kinda funny how wrong this video is my dad beat tetris stage 10 level 9 is the last level when you beat it little men come out and watch a spaceship launch and it says congratulations
Do you really ever lose at Tetris? I personally don't think that you can think of winning or losing at Tetris in the same way that you could with a game or FIFA or Hearthstone for instance. For me Tetris isn't about playing to win, or to avoid losing. It's about playing to push yourself. Can you beat you high score? Can you last a little longer than you did last time? If I were to compare it to something else, I'd take a look at something like lifting weights. This doesn't have to be about winning or losing, it can just be about achieve more than you did before. Maybe that's why people will play again after "losing". For me it's because I don't feel like I've lost. It doesn't feel like failing - it just feels like not quite achieving what I feel capable of achieving if I have just one more try. I hope this makes sense.
I read a study where the subjects playing tetris had depression and playing the game helped them get through it. Sadly I can't remember which study it was but it is certainly interesting in a positive way.
I think one of the coolest things about Tetris is that as far as I can tell it's the only game that doesn't mimic any aspect of our real life in its appearance or goals. Call of Duty simulates being in the military, Pong mimics a game of Tennis, and even Mario creates a fantastical version of a fairy tale ("save the princess"). There might be an argument to be made for games like Peggle or Bejewled... but even the most abstract of games pull from other inspirations. Peggle is based off of pachinko machines and bejewled has those gemstones in it. Tetris doesn't represent or draw from anything else. It's an abstract concept. It's just Tetris.
I've been playing mutiplayer Tetris for years, and I am among the fastest players in the world. What captivates me about Tetris is the skill progression aspect of it. The more you play the better you get, and it's fun to get better and better. On another note, I play these days mostly for the meditative state I can be in while playing. When I play Tetris there's no mental thought involved. I can be entirely in the current moment without any mental discourse or thought of the future. It's a liberating and peaceful feeling.
Goldenshadow177 Hai fellow Cultris-san. I can confirm that Shadow is among the fastest as I witnessed him clear 10 lines of Swiss cheese lines in less than 5 seconds and about 200 blocks per minute using only 1 preview and no hold. Just had to say that because I don't think they'll be able to understand the superlative so easily.
Tetris' power lies in its simplicity. Its challenge is straight-forward, make the descending blocks disappear, simple to learn, difficult to master, like all the classics. Its presentation is equally so. No roving camera, no cutesy characters (which can be as much a turn-off as a turn-on), no unseen obstacles, no hunting around, everything appears to be right in front of you. I'm not saying those are bad things, but absent those, Tetris becomes the game that can appeal to anyone and everyone.
Oh lol it's featuring one of my videos (the one with the snake sequence, I also wrote the death sequence article linked in the description). I really like that the author linked all used footage - sadly you don't see that often. I agree with most statements made. There are some inaccuracies I want to talk about at the end of my comment. But first what makes Tetris great: Tetris is the most simple real-time puzzle game. It's like the wheel of Puzzle games (and still it's copyrighted). Tetris doesn't need any colors (unlike Puyo Puyo or Dr. Mario). For each grid cell, there're only 2 options: It's either filled or empty. Its addiction potential lies in its infinity. There's only one way how to make a colorless rotating-block game endless: removing filled lines. This makes Tetris unique. Colored rotating-block games are not unique: Puyo Puyo is like Super Puzzle Fighter, Dr. Mario is like Tetris 2, and so on. Tetris sets you under time-pressure: either the pieces fall faster and faster, or you have to maximize score in a given time, or garbage rows spawn at the bottom spicing things up, or you have to top out an opponent before s/he does the same to you. There are many different ways (modes) to play Tetris. And if you're bored you can try out using Pentominoes (pieces consisting of 5 filled cells). Tetris is random. In games like Super Mario, you just have to memorize your path. There's nothing new a non-random game can offer to you after a certain point. Regarding the inaccuracies: - The less columns, the harder to survive: 8 columns is harder than 10 columns. - Deadly snake sequences exist for all different number of columns. There are even deadly sequences for 100 tiles wide fields. - Official console, hand-held and pc games use relaxed features since 2001: hold feature (swap pieces), many previews (next pieces queue), bag randomizer (AKA "random generator", although it's the least random randomizer ever used in Tetris games). - With these relaxed features it's possible to play forever. There're techniques that allow you to do perfect clears (empty board) or majorly Tetris line clears (80%-ish). There's even a technique said to be infinite that makes nothing but T-spin and Tetris line clears (this technique is called ZT-stacking). I for one prefer the traditional settings (like Game Boy Tetris). The relaxed features were made for casuals. It's easy to survive with hold and bag randomizer. With some experience, it's possible to do nothing but back-to-back Tetrises - even without using hold. That's why T-spins were introduced eventually.
why didn't you talk about the ai that put itself on pause to prevent itself from losing at tetris? im sure you have found out about it during your research
Some Tetris games cap the level at 15, a level that is very manageable. Most have a marathon mode, which ends after 150, 200, or 300 lines. Therefore, there are cases where you can play forever theoretically.
You can win at Tetris in many different ways. It depends on the version you play. I watched this video and even though they use clips from people play the TGM series is like it doesn't even exist.
tetris has taught me a lot about spatial orientation and foreplanning. now, every time I go to the groceries shop, the keeper insists on giving me another bag to put the rest of my order in, and I go "nah,... I got this..." (stack...stack...rotate...pile up...stack...grab) "there, all good... see ya!" also, my grandfather was a brickmason, and my father is an engineer, so,... I know a thing or two about bricks lol
Haha I'm the same I micro-pack my groceries for the most efficient use of space. Sometimes I'll take everything out and start again lol. Conversely, it drives me crazy when a store clerk bags my items and just randomly throws things it in with no organization. Although that's probably my obsessive compulsiveness too.
I remember beating the arcade game in the early-mid 90's. the screen would scroll up and have little people coming out of a russian building tower thing, and fireworks. I have been playing 1 or 2 games of tetris every morning for about 25 years. it helps me start my day.
I think one of the appeals of Tetris is the unending aspect. Its an allegory for reaching beyond our limits. Each time we stretch a little bit farther as we become more proficient at it, but there is no state of perfection. It always pushes us beyond our limitations.
I have been showing everyone in my family this video because the bowling snippet at 5:00 is our university bowling alley. MSU Mankato MN. We have celebrated many a kid birthday there. (Cheap bowling!) Just thought it was funny that you ended up with something we recognized. No one else here is impressed. I am apparently too easily awed.
Oh my goodness I thought I was the only weird one who started seeing Tertis pieces outside of the game. I see them on the air in front of my eyes, and even got so into it I started drawing out Tertis scenarios on paper lol
The thing that separates a good player from a bad player in Tetris is the ability to fix mistakes. Every board can be fixed, no matter what, and the key to being a good player is not only knowing how you can align the pieces to fix mistakes, but also knowing how to set up the pieces in the first place so that any piece could be accommodated. Even top tier players make a hole, they just know precisely how to correct it and can do it so fast that it is barely noticeable. So Tetris can be played indefinitely.
In most modern versions of the game, there is, in fact, a finish. it's called a marathon mode, or, in most versions of the game, sprint. Once you reach a certain number of lines, usually around 150, or 1000 in other modes, or get to a high enough level, the game stops, and you won.
I've played Tetris, guitar hero, and audio surf so much that I dreamed about them and could see blocks/notes flying at me every time I closed my eyes. Also Tetris helped my spatial reconition so well that when I became IMS at a walmart store - no one could keep up with my bin times (taking all overstock freight and fitting it in to a shelf with the inventory label) I could fill the bins more efficiently and quickly than the others.
What makes Tetris captivating? It leaves you with the mistakes you've made, forcing you to fix it one way or another. That's what Dad told me, anyway. I always preferred the Tetris 2P Battle from Tetris Friends.
I get the Tetris Effect from playing too much Tony Hawk's Pro Skater where I start to look at the world as a giant skate park. I only see things to grind on and jump off of haha.
Probably another reason for Tetris's popularity is simply that it (and its family) gave gamers something else to play besides platformers and the few other main genres, and I guess that also opened up the field to other types of gamers. I remember when we had a Mega Drive back in the early nineties, out of the twenty games that we had on it, Columns was pretty much the only game that my mum would play.
I'm the 1989 gameboy version, You always lose in A mode(though if you get so far you get an Saturn V type rocket and some dancing people). B mode works from a set amount of lines to reach and then you can beat it and get the shuttle and dancing people.
I've experienced the tetris effect with other minimalistic puzzle games, mostly on my android device. the thing about them is that they are so simplistic, yet the strategy for winning is so complex, that my brain automatically gets obsessed with finding those strategies. the genius behind tetris is that, unlike those other games, there is no level design: the whole thing generates randomly.
Great video! For those like me who dug this, I'd like to make a friendly plug for Matthewmatosis' video where he lays out his case for why Tetris might be a perfect game. It makes a nice companion piece to this one.
After having played/been around Tetris since around 1996 and way earlier, say pretty much as early as I can remember even though having been born in 1988. As soon I was given an NES I was hooked. BUT, it was waaayyy different once I got a Game Boy. After having Tetris on the Game Boy for a few months, I would say about six months; So yeah, after 6 months I couldn't sleep, I couldn't "day dream", I absolutely could not shut my brain off for the smallest amount of time. Every single thing that went through my head was basically based around some sort of weird Tetris configuration.... I mean honestly I lost around 40 lbs in a month, every single piece of food I put into my mouth had to fit like a piece from Tetris or I would "lose the game", AKA throw up every single thing I had just ate. Now! I am not a "whooogilly-gooogilly!" Crazy person with multiple personality disorder or anything.... MY BRAIN JUST ENDED UP BEING TRAPPED, trapped inside a world of physics that don't exist!
You forgot to add he was inspired by a puzzle game called Pentaminos, which were 5 block pieces in a grid. he decided the game would be more interesting by removing one block out of the pieces and, "turn the pieces like when you turn a key on a lock" as addressed by Pajitnov himself (I actually love when he used that example). Add the line feature, boom: here comes the red october of videogames.
Maybe why we get so hooked up with Tetris is because of our brain's inclination to find patterns. We gotta clear 'em lines because, reasons! But nevertheless, it's a timeless classic and never gets old!
You CAN beat Tetris. Ever see the 2011 documentary Ecstasy of Order? A least 2 guys in that movie reach the kill screen, max out the points at 999,999, and reach the highest level. That's how you beat classic arcade games, you reach the top or the game runs out of memory.
If you ask me, the only way you're able to win at Tetris is by completing a certain number of lines in some game modes such as 'Game B' on the NES and Game Boy versions.
It wastes time. That's why so many people "love" it. You don't need an 7 minute video to tell you that. I don't think I've ever met someone who played it with the intention to win; they all just wanted to not do what they were supposed to be doing or were just wasting time between activities.
the funny thing was to silence some critics the artist who designed the character of dragons crown drew a picture with dwarfs with their shirts off in sexy poses XD
I found it interesting when you talked about GMR, but was kind of disappointed when you didn't explain what in the game catalyzed that activity. Here are a couple of my theories: 1. Tetris always keeps you on your toes. Have you ever messed up in Tetris? When you did, it often took a long time to repair the mistake huh? This simple fact forces your brain to maintain its maximum attention because the consequences are so high in the game. Players need to find that perfect balance of speed ( to cater to their impatience) and accuracy. 2. Tetris creates problems. The snake sequence is a perfect example of such. Besides starting the game it's very hard ( for new players at least) to maintain a flat board. This unbalanced board disturbed players and demands that they fix it, so when it is finally done it's very satisfying ( at least until the next piece)
Back on the Wii I played a 37 hour game in marathon mode. There was pausing involved, but the thrill of continuing for that time and getting to be 15th in the world on a leaderboard (that might as well have been for the loneliest man on earth) was such a high. Never once did I think I lost, maybe lost focus since it was my roommate's attractive girlfriend watching me play that finally broke my concentration enough to top out, but I didn't "lose" at Tetris. That's just not the terminology I use when I play Tetris. There is no end game for me because I'm a Marathoner, not a Sprinter. No one tells Dean Karnazes that he "lost" by only running 80 hours.
I think the easiest way to explain why nobody can win Tetris is because it's an endless game. It literally has no ending, there's no highest level you can get to, it just keeps going. Ergo we cannot say that one "wins Tetris" you can only have the highest score.
"according to this wired article from the 90's" I don't know why (I can guess), but that made my chuckle. It came across like a PhD defense quoting IGN... or something. Anyway - why do we all love Tetris? Faulty premise, there.
PBS Game/Show I'm surprise you didn't mention that Tetris is NP complete, which means it's one of the hardest problem to solve, but solutions can be verified quite easy. Solve in this context, if you know what pieces are coming up next can you find a sequence which will win. If you know sequence, or guess it, you can check it polynomial time. Now if P does not equal NP(which is probably the case), finding the solution will take longer than Polynomial time to find. Since shaking up the bag takes linear time, just grow the bag and increase it's speed any computer will have to fail at some point.
I actually do go through the tetris effect a bit often. Ill always wanna know the shapes and patterns of my next match so that I can be victorious and reach a higherscore each time I play. I wouldn't say its to much of a bother, not to mention, it rationalizes my brain to be quicker. I feel like Tetris is really helping me become quite more focused as well. Hopefully others agree as well.
I’ve been playing Tetris for Xbox one and they have a game mode called Sprint. I’ve been trying to get it done in a minute and a half. So far the best I’ve done was 1minute and 39 seconds. Tetris is really super addicting and we do want to find the best way to improve ourselves.
As for the video title and question, I believe it all lies in Tetris being in a sort of endless mode. With some notable exceptions, such as B mode and VS mode, there is no final round built into Tetris. Much like how games like Pacman has a killscreen, Tetris only ends in the player's defeat because no absolute victory is coded in. Likewise, a game with endless mode will have players coming back because those players want to see how far they can go. Just as people are interested how far into the nether they can go or how big a design they can create in Minecraft. There are people interested in how high their score can go or how many lines they can clear in Tetris. That's also why there are people who praised Megaman 10 for having an endless map as well as fighting games that have a pseudo infinite survival mode. Endless mode and anything similar to endless mode not only appeals to our interest and allows us to continue to enjoy what we like, but such modes also have the potential to push us farther than we expect of ourselves.
I always thought it was popular because, yes simplicity and because it was the breakout poster child of puzzle games, but also because of its legal ownership craziness and how 4-5 companies at one point claimed it as their own IP and made different Tetris entries on different systems giving it a lot of accessibility.
Tetris is one of my absolute favorite games, and I think the impossibility of winning is a big reason why. Almost more than any other experience, playing Tetris has directly taught me how to lose with grace and maintain composure even in a losing proposition. Playing has also instilled within me a desire to manage and strategize within the best of my ability. As strange as it may sound, with each passing game leaves me with hope that I can improve myself and progress /that/ much further in spite of an inevitable loss. Thanks for the episode; I'm feeling really inspired to further research the history and making of Tetris! P.S. On further reflection, the design of Tetris reminds me a lot of Missile Command as talked about on Extra Credits: ruclips.net/video/JQJA5YjvHDU/видео.html&ab_channel=ExtraCredits P.P.S. BrainCraft seems like cool show. Thanks for the introduction!
This video is titled "Why You'll Always Lose," and I'd like to point out that in this day and age, that's just flat-out wrong. Modern Tetris games' solo modes are almost always comprised solely of winnable gametypes that have their own winning conditions. Even a "Marathon" Mode ends eventually, usually after a high number of line clearances, typically 200, such as you'd see in Tetris DS, or in Puyo Puyo Tetris's Solo Arcade (both geared toward a variety of skill levels). Though it used to be commonplace, a true Endless mode is rarely seen anymore. Even in Grand Master 3 (a game mostly geared toward Tetris experts), Master Mode (the game's main mode for decently-skilled players) ends after reaching "level" 999 (wherein you earn at least one "level" for each piece you even manage to PLACE, though line clearances count more), and Shirase Mode, TGM3's hardest mode, ends at "level" 1300. Add in that these days, you can see 3 of your next pieces instead of just one, and you can Hold a piece in reserve for later (though it can also be used to simply temporarily trash a piece you don't like), and the game becomes, in general, much more newbie-friendly, as it makes these solo modes anywhere between merely more enthralling and able to hold your attention longer, to significantly easier to actually win. So not only *can* you win, the modern games are giving out more and more tools to *help* your odds of winning.
Great episode! while I wasn't un-happy with all the social justice ""stuff" we had going on, this is far more interesting... probably because humans aren't involved.
IDidSawABearAgreed. Good video. I especially like how the comment response part was longer, accepted critique better, pointed out a mistake, and finally he broke the mold of answering a pointless fluff comment.
I enjoy Tertris! It's all about strategy which is often the games I like to play (like old school Tycoon games and Age of Empires etc.) It's all about playing the board right and then finally hitting the goal (even if those games have a goal, Tetris is constantly thwart the goal until you give up.) Yes this was a silly ramble but I do love Tetris!! Has anyone play the version when you have to use the blocks to form a picture, yikes that's hard.
Dwarf Fortress share the same idea. You will lose... Eventually. While in tetris the lose condition comes closer at each row cleared (increasing the speed), in Dwarf Fortress you lose at every new project you start, you can of course play Dwarf Fortress safely and postpone the inevitable fun(losing is fun is the moto of DF). If you dig too deep, or crave to build something too elaborated that one sad-crazy dwarf can put your whole fortress to an abyss of death and tantrum. New waves of enemy will be at your doorstep at each new valuable you make, so your idea to make a gold throne room, carved with diamonds, will bring forgotten beasts to to the very same room, and even if you build an army of dwarf with Adamantine armor and swords, this will bring more and more enemies. And that's the awesome thing about DF that I love, you will lose, but by losing you learn a new thing or will have a great story to tell.
I'll always remember this one game of Tetris where I reached the maximum score the device could display. After breaking another line my score was reset to 0 ...
Not sure if you will read this Jamin. But the last episode (or was it before that?) I had criticized you for talking about social issues in games like feminism. Despite the fact I didn't attack you meanly like alot of people did. And despite the fact I agree with what you were saying in the end. I still want to apologize for anything I said. You do good work on this channel and make people think about games on more then just "Lets have fun shooting stuff" level.
I've had the thing where i see tetris in weird placed on buildings back when i used to play it alot. Also, back when 2048 was popular, I couldn't keep eye contact cause everyone I looked at, I'd visualize their eyes merge together and become a nose, then those merge together and become a mouth, and their mouths merge together to become another face. My mind literally saw 2048 in everything.
I have a knock off version I got offline somewhere where the boxes are six sided dice. The levels are things like a cat face, a Christmas tree and whatever. :)
tl;dr: There may be proofs that you'll always lose at a generalized mathematical model of Tetris, but things aren't quite so bleak when it comes to real-world versions of the game.
While the video seems to imply that 7 Bag randomization is a bit of a double-edged sword and that memoryless randomization would let you skirt by on luck, it's kind of the opposite -- Bag randomization is one of the features that makes the game stable and ensures the possibility of indefinite play. The alternating S/Z pattern needs to be dealt in a _much_ greater volume than a 7 Bag allows in order to cause any degree of strife. The paper "How to Lose at Tetris" assumes a memoryless (non-Bag) randomizer that -- given an infinite sequence of pieces, that presumably contains all possible permutations of pieces as subsequences -- will eventually come across an adversarial alternating S/Z sequence of sufficient length to force a game to end.
Moreover, the paper assumes a generalized version of the game that uses a mathematically true source of randomness. Real-world implementations of Tetris use Pseudo-Random Number Generators (PRNG) -- that is to say, a mathematical formula with output that _appears_ random. Given that computers behave deterministically, PRNG are the best way to produce chaotic output without an external source of true randomness. As such, it would in fact be possible to pre-determine the random sequence* the PRNG produces and rule out the existence of an adversarial S/Z sequence.
*(One exception might be something like NES Tetris, where randomization is also affected by entropy collected from variation in player input timing. In that case, you could say that a theoretical perfect player actually has _more_ freedom to play forever, given they have a tool to manipulate the pieces being distributed. Considering the case with a human player, though, it adds an element of unpredictability that clouds our ability to determine whether it is possible for an adversarial sequence to be generated.)
Also, the "very relaxed features you can enable in some versions of the game" are in fact part of the standardized ruleset featured in essentially all licensed Tetris games from 2001 onward; 7 Bag randomization, multi-preview, and Hold swap are now bog standard, and it's now uncommon to be able to play _without_ them. The "Playing Forever" proof serves less as an actual optimal playing strategy and more as a demonstration of the guaranteed stability of the current standard ruleset. The solution was recently generalized to play at instant drop speeds (see harddrop.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=7096&view=findpost&p=83947 ), so it isn't even necessary to make a provision that the game remain at low speeds -- modern Tetris is solved.
Anyway, the theory of endless games aside, many versions of Tetris have endgame goals or win conditions. A couple instances are featured in this video: for instance, *****'s performance on Tetris: The Grand Master 3, and NOV's performance on Tetris: The Grand Master 2+. There are also some like NES Tetris that tread a fine line; NES has an implicit ending in that the play speed beyond Level 29 cannot humanly be sustained, and an implicit win condition in that there is a maximum point value of 999,999 points.
Yeah at a mathematicians point of view it's impossible but in reality it's entirely possible
you got just about everything right except one thing. we are past level 29 now.
P e r m u t a t i o n
@@garbageschoolvideos661 kitaru is still correct; play after the killscreen cannot be _humanly_ sustained. Joseph Saelee is not human.
@@EebstertheGreat It was Thor Aackerlund:
ruclips.net/video/T6mvDOKOIqY/видео.html
What a crazy coincidence. I just started getting obsessed with Tetris again. The other night when I was going to bed I was half asleep playing Tetris in my head. Just like, making it up. It took me awhile to realize what I was doing. I think I'm going crazy.
I do the same. Tetriminos falling into place as I fall asleep.
I've always thought that Tetris was so addictive because wanting to organise things into neat piles is a very basic human concept, and it rewards this
I've experienced the Tetris Effect in another game. After playing Portal 2 for an unhealthy amount of hours, I can no longer see a white wall around me without immediately thinking about placing a portal in there XD
Same with me and my Zelda game I got majoras mask from my sister and after playing with it for 200 hours on weeks on end all I saw when I was by myself in the dark inside my room was the masked salesman and the skull kid I had nightmares for weeks
@Arturo Gutierrez, do not forget about another similar game that has a similar effect that is called Lumines. Also, coincidentally, the creator of that franchise also worked with the people that make, as well as own, Tetris, games to make a version of that game that combines Tetris with his game as well, plus it also throws in a VR option as well. The name of that game is called, appropriately enough, Tetris Effect.
I think the appeal of Tetris is due to its easy-to-learn, but hard-to-master "effect". As you said one can easily "get it" and play it and whenever he/she fails have the feeling "I'll do better next time and beat my score!" and try again and again and again....
Question Mark here - inventor of one of the playing forever methods you referred to at 5:53. Several important misconceptions to clear up.
3:36: For starters, that pattern there does not have an even piece distribution - there are two I, T, and O pieces. Also, why does having a pattern that's only 8 tiles wide matter? There are plenty of patterns that are 9 or 10 tiles wide, to say nothing of the fact that Tetris usually involves filling in holes and not tiling pieces perfectly. It says at 3:47 that you have to deal with those 2 columns as if it's significant - while the clip shows someone stacking 9 tiles across.
5:36: No, that doesn't happen with the Bag randomiser. The sequence Burgiel describes is not 3 or 4 consecutive S/Z pieces but *70,000* of them. (See how the animation has back-to-back S/Z pieces?) But any more than 5 pieces is literally impossible, because Bag never gives you more than one S and one Z per bag. If you start from zero, you get one of each every seven pieces. If you look at 7,000 consecutive pieces starting on any bag, you will get 1,000 of each, exactly.
Finally, at 5:53-6:06 you seem to be implying that the techniques to "feasibly" play forever are similarly doomed to fail because of the S/Z sequences, and we can never be perfect. Since you bring up the requirements for being able to play forever... they include Bags, meaning you never get a kill sequence. The original method by colour_thief, tepples, and Pineapple (animation at 5:14) was proved rigourously - it works, perfectly, forever. (Also, frankly speaking, the conditions aren't _that_ relaxed - they're pretty standard to most modern Tetris games.)
DoctorQuestionMark Hey QM! I agree with this post. d(◐◡◐)
If you're interested, I also outlined whether it's possible to make similar determinations regarding adversarial S/Z sequences for non-Bag randomizers over here: ruclips.net/user/all_comments?v=-MfUEy7biJc&lc=z13vddj4atjlthirc04ch5gznlqjghjx4h0
I also want to point out that you don't need to play perfectly to play forever you just need your burn rate to be faster than your error rate. For example if you can burn 4 lines for every piece misplacement then the screen will not fill up to the top.
This video is an absolute tetris goldmine even in 2021! I can't believe that I still stumble upon such awesome Tetris videos after I was sure to have seen them all.
This is anything but an awesome video, it's completely wrong for modern tetris. A run of SZ pieces is guaranteed to eventually make you in the original version, but you need literally thousands in a row. The max you can get in the newer versions is 4 which doesn't bother even average players one bit.
@@d4ve19 Well about the quality of the content that's your opinion and I stated mine. And I stand by it. I don't think when explaining the theoretical Z-S concept, he was referring to guideline Tetris at all. A bit unfortunate that he introduced the snake sequence immediately after introducing the guideline 7-bag randomizer. But at 5:10 he even shows the S-Z sequence probabilities with the 7-bag. So, I don't see your point at all.
I played the DS version until I hit 99,999,999.. I'm can attest to this "seeing tetris shapes in real life" effect.. also hearing tetris music everywhere I go. Same problem I had with Pokémon's bike riding theme when I was younger. Ahh, good times.
Is no-one gonna talk about that pre-9/11 WTC tetromino @ 2:54? lel
In Soviet Russia, Tetris plays YOU.
3:37 I don't see how this is a problem - the 'perfect arrangement' is five high, so tilt it on its side and you can fit two next to each other, filling the well perfectly?
1) That arrangement has no S or J piece
2) stacking order. Even with SRS and 7bag randomizer there's no way to guarentee that stack everytime
I tetromi-know so much more about Tetris now. Awesome episode!
:-)
BrainCraft GET OUT BRAIN CRAFT THIS IS JAYMEN"S CHANNEL LOL JKxD
BrainCraft [slow clap] :)
It's kinda funny how wrong this video is my dad beat tetris stage 10 level 9 is the last level when you beat it little men come out and watch a spaceship launch and it says congratulations
@@pbsgameshow hey you do know that people have beaten tetris
Do you really ever lose at Tetris? I personally don't think that you can think of winning or losing at Tetris in the same way that you could with a game or FIFA or Hearthstone for instance.
For me Tetris isn't about playing to win, or to avoid losing. It's about playing to push yourself. Can you beat you high score? Can you last a little longer than you did last time?
If I were to compare it to something else, I'd take a look at something like lifting weights. This doesn't have to be about winning or losing, it can just be about achieve more than you did before.
Maybe that's why people will play again after "losing". For me it's because I don't feel like I've lost. It doesn't feel like failing - it just feels like not quite achieving what I feel capable of achieving if I have just one more try.
I hope this makes sense.
So in some ways I guess Tetris was like the Minecraft of it's time.
1.It just had blocks.
2.It was plain addicting.
I read a study where the subjects playing tetris had depression and playing the game helped them get through it. Sadly I can't remember which study it was but it is certainly interesting in a positive way.
I think one of the coolest things about Tetris is that as far as I can tell it's the only game that doesn't mimic any aspect of our real life in its appearance or goals. Call of Duty simulates being in the military, Pong mimics a game of Tennis, and even Mario creates a fantastical version of a fairy tale ("save the princess").
There might be an argument to be made for games like Peggle or Bejewled... but even the most abstract of games pull from other inspirations. Peggle is based off of pachinko machines and bejewled has those gemstones in it.
Tetris doesn't represent or draw from anything else. It's an abstract concept. It's just Tetris.
I've been playing mutiplayer Tetris for years, and I am among the fastest players in the world. What captivates me about Tetris is the skill progression aspect of it. The more you play the better you get, and it's fun to get better and better. On another note, I play these days mostly for the meditative state I can be in while playing. When I play Tetris there's no mental thought involved. I can be entirely in the current moment without any mental discourse or thought of the future. It's a liberating and peaceful feeling.
Goldenshadow177
Hai fellow Cultris-san. I can confirm that Shadow is among the fastest as I witnessed him clear 10 lines of Swiss cheese lines in less than 5 seconds and about 200 blocks per minute using only 1 preview and no hold.
Just had to say that because I don't think they'll be able to understand the superlative so easily.
Goldenshadow177 This meditative state is also know as 'the zone' or flow.
Tetris' power lies in its simplicity. Its challenge is straight-forward, make the descending blocks disappear, simple to learn, difficult to master, like all the classics. Its presentation is equally so. No roving camera, no cutesy characters (which can be as much a turn-off as a turn-on), no unseen obstacles, no hunting around, everything appears to be right in front of you. I'm not saying those are bad things, but absent those, Tetris becomes the game that can appeal to anyone and everyone.
Oh lol it's featuring one of my videos (the one with the snake sequence, I also wrote the death sequence article linked in the description). I really like that the author linked all used footage - sadly you don't see that often. I agree with most statements made. There are some inaccuracies I want to talk about at the end of my comment. But first what makes Tetris great:
Tetris is the most simple real-time puzzle game. It's like the wheel of Puzzle games (and still it's copyrighted). Tetris doesn't need any colors (unlike Puyo Puyo or Dr. Mario). For each grid cell, there're only 2 options: It's either filled or empty. Its addiction potential lies in its infinity. There's only one way how to make a colorless rotating-block game endless: removing filled lines. This makes Tetris unique. Colored rotating-block games are not unique: Puyo Puyo is like Super Puzzle Fighter, Dr. Mario is like Tetris 2, and so on.
Tetris sets you under time-pressure: either the pieces fall faster and faster, or you have to maximize score in a given time, or garbage rows spawn at the bottom spicing things up, or you have to top out an opponent before s/he does the same to you. There are many different ways (modes) to play Tetris. And if you're bored you can try out using Pentominoes (pieces consisting of 5 filled cells).
Tetris is random. In games like Super Mario, you just have to memorize your path. There's nothing new a non-random game can offer to you after a certain point.
Regarding the inaccuracies:
- The less columns, the harder to survive: 8 columns is harder than 10 columns.
- Deadly snake sequences exist for all different number of columns. There are even deadly sequences for 100 tiles wide fields.
- Official console, hand-held and pc games use relaxed features since 2001: hold feature (swap pieces), many previews (next pieces queue), bag randomizer (AKA "random generator", although it's the least random randomizer ever used in Tetris games).
- With these relaxed features it's possible to play forever. There're techniques that allow you to do perfect clears (empty board) or majorly Tetris line clears (80%-ish). There's even a technique said to be infinite that makes nothing but T-spin and Tetris line clears (this technique is called ZT-stacking).
I for one prefer the traditional settings (like Game Boy Tetris). The relaxed features were made for casuals. It's easy to survive with hold and bag randomizer. With some experience, it's possible to do nothing but back-to-back Tetrises - even without using hold. That's why T-spins were introduced eventually.
the same thing that makes flappy bird so addicting
2:32 holy crap I thought that was just me holy crap
why didn't you talk about the ai that put itself on pause to prevent itself from losing at tetris?
im sure you have found out about it during your research
ashley beaumont He did, briefly. 3:10
Brooke Henry missed that thanks
Some Tetris games cap the level at 15, a level that is very manageable. Most have a marathon mode, which ends after 150, 200, or 300 lines. Therefore, there are cases where you can play forever theoretically.
You can win at Tetris in many different ways. It depends on the version you play. I watched this video and even though they use clips from people play the TGM series is like it doesn't even exist.
Not only is Tetris so ubiquitous but there have been so many copy-cats and puzzle games inspired by Tetris. There'd be no Candy Crush without Tetris.
"No one's ever beaten it"? Uhh, hello? The Grand Master has been beaten many times.
tetris has taught me a lot about spatial orientation and foreplanning.
now, every time I go to the groceries shop, the keeper insists on giving me another bag to put the rest of my order in, and I go "nah,... I got this..."
(stack...stack...rotate...pile up...stack...grab)
"there, all good... see ya!"
also, my grandfather was a brickmason, and my father is an engineer, so,... I know a thing or two about bricks lol
Haha I'm the same I micro-pack my groceries for the most efficient use of space. Sometimes I'll take everything out and start again lol.
Conversely, it drives me crazy when a store clerk bags my items and just randomly throws things it in with no organization.
Although that's probably my obsessive compulsiveness too.
I remember beating the arcade game in the early-mid 90's. the screen would scroll up and have little people coming out of a russian building tower thing, and fireworks.
I have been playing 1 or 2 games of tetris every morning for about 25 years. it helps me start my day.
I think one of the appeals of Tetris is the unending aspect.
Its an allegory for reaching beyond our limits. Each time we stretch a little bit farther as we become more proficient at it, but there is no state of perfection. It always pushes us beyond our limitations.
I have been showing everyone in my family this video because the bowling snippet at 5:00 is our university bowling alley. MSU Mankato MN. We have celebrated many a kid birthday there. (Cheap bowling!) Just thought it was funny that you ended up with something we recognized. No one else here is impressed. I am apparently too easily awed.
Oh my goodness I thought I was the only weird one who started seeing Tertis pieces outside of the game. I see them on the air in front of my eyes, and even got so into it I started drawing out Tertis scenarios on paper lol
The satisfaction of smooshing Tetrominos together gets people high on Tetris.
5:22 wtf you horizontally flipped the pieces lol, Z is the red one and S is the green one
I love Tetris mostly because of its soundtrack and addictiveness. (idk if that's a word)
I thought it was Addictivity
Korobeiniki
The thing that separates a good player from a bad player in Tetris is the ability to fix mistakes. Every board can be fixed, no matter what, and the key to being a good player is not only knowing how you can align the pieces to fix mistakes, but also knowing how to set up the pieces in the first place so that any piece could be accommodated. Even top tier players make a hole, they just know precisely how to correct it and can do it so fast that it is barely noticeable. So Tetris can be played indefinitely.
It’s so appealing because it’s satisfying to fit the pieces in just right on a play and they disappear
In most modern versions of the game, there is, in fact, a finish. it's called a marathon mode, or, in most versions of the game, sprint. Once you reach a certain number of lines, usually around 150, or 1000 in other modes, or get to a high enough level, the game stops, and you won.
I've played Tetris, guitar hero, and audio surf so much that I dreamed about them and could see blocks/notes flying at me every time I closed my eyes.
Also Tetris helped my spatial reconition so well that when I became IMS at a walmart store - no one could keep up with my bin times (taking all overstock freight and fitting it in to a shelf with the inventory label) I could fill the bins more efficiently and quickly than the others.
Your math is no match for Scuti
It's the dopamine!! Each time I get a full tetris clear, it never gets old!
What makes Tetris captivating? It leaves you with the mistakes you've made, forcing you to fix it one way or another. That's what Dad told me, anyway.
I always preferred the Tetris 2P Battle from Tetris Friends.
I get the Tetris Effect from playing too much Tony Hawk's Pro Skater where I start to look at the world as a giant skate park. I only see things to grind on and jump off of haha.
Samuel Evans There's actually a book about why that is: www.amazon.com/Skateboarding-Space-City-Architecture-Body/dp/1859734936
No way! That is awesome! Thanks haha :)
Also I think Tetris is captivating because who doesn't love that classic soundtrack!
Probably another reason for Tetris's popularity is simply that it (and its family) gave gamers something else to play besides platformers and the few other main genres, and I guess that also opened up the field to other types of gamers. I remember when we had a Mega Drive back in the early nineties, out of the twenty games that we had on it, Columns was pretty much the only game that my mum would play.
I'm the 1989 gameboy version, You always lose in A mode(though if you get so far you get an Saturn V type rocket and some dancing people). B mode works from a set amount of lines to reach and then you can beat it and get the shuttle and dancing people.
I've experienced the tetris effect with other minimalistic puzzle games, mostly on my android device. the thing about them is that they are so simplistic, yet the strategy for winning is so complex, that my brain automatically gets obsessed with finding those strategies. the genius behind tetris is that, unlike those other games, there is no level design: the whole thing generates randomly.
and then bluescuti broke the game.
Great video! For those like me who dug this, I'd like to make a friendly plug for Matthewmatosis' video where he lays out his case for why Tetris might be a perfect game. It makes a nice companion piece to this one.
After having played/been around Tetris since around 1996 and way earlier, say pretty much as early as I can remember even though having been born in 1988. As soon I was given an NES I was hooked. BUT, it was waaayyy different once I got a Game Boy. After having Tetris on the Game Boy for a few months, I would say about six months;
So yeah, after 6 months I couldn't sleep, I couldn't "day dream", I absolutely could not shut my brain off for the smallest amount of time. Every single thing that went through my head was basically based around some sort of weird Tetris configuration.... I mean honestly I lost around 40 lbs in a month, every single piece of food I put into my mouth had to fit like a piece from Tetris or I would "lose the game", AKA throw up every single thing I had just ate.
Now! I am not a "whooogilly-gooogilly!" Crazy person with multiple personality disorder or anything.... MY BRAIN JUST ENDED UP BEING TRAPPED, trapped inside a world of physics that don't exist!
What do you call a Tetriminos playing sharks and minnows? A Tetriminnow! Budum' tss!
You forgot to add he was inspired by a puzzle game called Pentaminos, which were 5 block pieces in a grid. he decided the game would be more interesting by removing one block out of the pieces and, "turn the pieces like when you turn a key on a lock" as addressed by Pajitnov himself (I actually love when he used that example). Add the line feature, boom: here comes the red october of videogames.
Maybe why we get so hooked up with Tetris is because of our brain's inclination to find patterns. We gotta clear 'em lines because, reasons! But nevertheless, it's a timeless classic and never gets old!
You CAN beat Tetris. Ever see the 2011 documentary Ecstasy of Order? A least 2 guys in that movie reach the kill screen, max out the points at 999,999, and reach the highest level. That's how you beat classic arcade games, you reach the top or the game runs out of memory.
Love when you make videos like this.
That perfect arrangement is 5 units high so why can't you just rotate 90 degrees?
The thoroughness and quality of your videos are fantastic. Nice job!
If you ask me, the only way you're able to win at Tetris is by completing a certain number of lines in some game modes such as 'Game B' on the NES and Game Boy versions.
It wastes time. That's why so many people "love" it. You don't need an 7 minute video to tell you that. I don't think I've ever met someone who played it with the intention to win; they all just wanted to not do what they were supposed to be doing or were just wasting time between activities.
the funny thing was to silence some critics the artist who designed the character of dragons crown drew a picture with dwarfs with their shirts off in sexy poses XD
I found it interesting when you talked about GMR, but was kind of disappointed when you didn't explain what in the game catalyzed that activity. Here are a couple of my theories:
1. Tetris always keeps you on your toes. Have you ever messed up in Tetris? When you did, it often took a long time to repair the mistake huh? This simple fact forces your brain to maintain its maximum attention because the consequences are so high in the game. Players need to find that perfect balance of speed ( to cater to their impatience) and accuracy.
2. Tetris creates problems. The snake sequence is a perfect example of such. Besides starting the game it's very hard ( for new players at least) to maintain a flat board. This unbalanced board disturbed players and demands that they fix it, so when it is finally done it's very satisfying ( at least until the next piece)
It's Captivating because who doesn't love "A Theme"
Back on the Wii I played a 37 hour game in marathon mode. There was pausing involved, but the thrill of continuing for that time and getting to be 15th in the world on a leaderboard (that might as well have been for the loneliest man on earth) was such a high. Never once did I think I lost, maybe lost focus since it was my roommate's attractive girlfriend watching me play that finally broke my concentration enough to top out, but I didn't "lose" at Tetris. That's just not the terminology I use when I play Tetris. There is no end game for me because I'm a Marathoner, not a Sprinter. No one tells Dean Karnazes that he "lost" by only running 80 hours.
I think the easiest way to explain why nobody can win Tetris is because it's an endless game. It literally has no ending, there's no highest level you can get to, it just keeps going. Ergo we cannot say that one "wins Tetris" you can only have the highest score.
Some versions of the game HAVE a goal you can pass to win. But they are rare and most versions go on forever.
PBS Game/Show For me, to play a good game is to win, regardless of the outcome.
"according to this wired article from the 90's" I don't know why (I can guess), but that made my chuckle. It came across like a PhD defense quoting IGN... or something.
Anyway - why do we all love Tetris? Faulty premise, there.
The tetris effect also happens after playing Minecraft
Kendra Benoit Really? ! It kinda makes sense
PBS Game/Show I'm surprise you didn't mention that Tetris is NP complete, which means it's one of the hardest problem to solve, but solutions can be verified quite easy. Solve in this context, if you know what pieces are coming up next can you find a sequence which will win. If you know sequence, or guess it, you can check it polynomial time. Now if P does not equal NP(which is probably the case), finding the solution will take longer than Polynomial time to find. Since shaking up the bag takes linear time, just grow the bag and increase it's speed any computer will have to fail at some point.
Those cubicals behind you are in the shape of Tetris blocks
I actually do go through the tetris effect a bit often. Ill always wanna know the shapes and patterns of my next match so that I can be victorious and reach a higherscore each time I play.
I wouldn't say its to much of a bother, not to mention, it rationalizes my brain to be quicker.
I feel like Tetris is really helping me become quite more focused as well.
Hopefully others agree as well.
Finally, something about actual video games.
I’ve been playing Tetris for Xbox one and they have a game mode called Sprint. I’ve been trying to get it done in a minute and a half. So far the best I’ve done was 1minute and 39 seconds. Tetris is really super addicting and we do want to find the best way to improve ourselves.
The music. It's all about the music. A, B, and C.
Well... you can win non-endless marathon in modern tetris games
We all know it is the music that make us love Tetris.
Tetris. The original Flappy Bird.
Christopher Freytag Ha!
As for the video title and question, I believe it all lies in Tetris being in a sort of endless mode. With some notable exceptions, such as B mode and VS mode, there is no final round built into Tetris. Much like how games like Pacman has a killscreen, Tetris only ends in the player's defeat because no absolute victory is coded in. Likewise, a game with endless mode will have players coming back because those players want to see how far they can go. Just as people are interested how far into the nether they can go or how big a design they can create in Minecraft. There are people interested in how high their score can go or how many lines they can clear in Tetris. That's also why there are people who praised Megaman 10 for having an endless map as well as fighting games that have a pseudo infinite survival mode. Endless mode and anything similar to endless mode not only appeals to our interest and allows us to continue to enjoy what we like, but such modes also have the potential to push us farther than we expect of ourselves.
Yaaaaas marriage of science & tetris! #MATH Google YANG 2020….....♥
The reason I get addicted to Tetris is the awesome music.
This was really interesting! Subscribed!
3:40 Varies from the game, but they are between 8 and 12
I always thought it was popular because, yes simplicity and because it was the breakout poster child of puzzle games, but also because of its legal ownership craziness and how 4-5 companies at one point claimed it as their own IP and made different Tetris entries on different systems giving it a lot of accessibility.
Tetris is one of my absolute favorite games, and I think the impossibility of winning is a big reason why. Almost more than any other experience, playing Tetris has directly taught me how to lose with grace and maintain composure even in a losing proposition. Playing has also instilled within me a desire to manage and strategize within the best of my ability. As strange as it may sound, with each passing game leaves me with hope that I can improve myself and progress /that/ much further in spite of an inevitable loss. Thanks for the episode; I'm feeling really inspired to further research the history and making of Tetris!
P.S. On further reflection, the design of Tetris reminds me a lot of Missile Command as talked about on Extra Credits: ruclips.net/video/JQJA5YjvHDU/видео.html&ab_channel=ExtraCredits
P.P.S. BrainCraft seems like cool show. Thanks for the introduction!
This video is titled "Why You'll Always Lose," and I'd like to point out that in this day and age, that's just flat-out wrong.
Modern Tetris games' solo modes are almost always comprised solely of winnable gametypes that have their own winning conditions. Even a "Marathon" Mode ends eventually, usually after a high number of line clearances, typically 200, such as you'd see in Tetris DS, or in Puyo Puyo Tetris's Solo Arcade (both geared toward a variety of skill levels). Though it used to be commonplace, a true Endless mode is rarely seen anymore. Even in Grand Master 3 (a game mostly geared toward Tetris experts), Master Mode (the game's main mode for decently-skilled players) ends after reaching "level" 999 (wherein you earn at least one "level" for each piece you even manage to PLACE, though line clearances count more), and Shirase Mode, TGM3's hardest mode, ends at "level" 1300.
Add in that these days, you can see 3 of your next pieces instead of just one, and you can Hold a piece in reserve for later (though it can also be used to simply temporarily trash a piece you don't like), and the game becomes, in general, much more newbie-friendly, as it makes these solo modes anywhere between merely more enthralling and able to hold your attention longer, to significantly easier to actually win.
So not only *can* you win, the modern games are giving out more and more tools to *help* your odds of winning.
Holy crap, that final example clip was from Tetris'd. I remember that flash animation! :D
Great episode! while I wasn't un-happy with all the social justice ""stuff" we had going on, this is far more interesting... probably because humans aren't involved.
IDidSawABear wasn't un-happy lol
IDidSawABear Yeah, I agree with you there bud.
IDidSawABear Not counting this video, of the last 10 videos, only 2 can be considered "social justice"
Oh yes! Please more videos like this one!!!
IDidSawABearAgreed. Good video. I especially like how the comment response part was longer, accepted critique better, pointed out a mistake, and finally he broke the mold of answering a pointless fluff comment.
I enjoy Tertris! It's all about strategy which is often the games I like to play (like old school Tycoon games and Age of Empires etc.) It's all about playing the board right and then finally hitting the goal (even if those games have a goal, Tetris is constantly thwart the goal until you give up.) Yes this was a silly ramble but I do love Tetris!!
Has anyone play the version when you have to use the blocks to form a picture, yikes that's hard.
Great now I want to play Tetris now
Where's the link about the Amazonian archetype you mention at 8:15 ?
Dwarf Fortress share the same idea. You will lose... Eventually. While in tetris the lose condition comes closer at each row cleared (increasing the speed), in Dwarf Fortress you lose at every new project you start, you can of course play Dwarf Fortress safely and postpone the inevitable fun(losing is fun is the moto of DF).
If you dig too deep, or crave to build something too elaborated that one sad-crazy dwarf can put your whole fortress to an abyss of death and tantrum.
New waves of enemy will be at your doorstep at each new valuable you make, so your idea to make a gold throne room, carved with diamonds, will bring forgotten beasts to to the very same room, and even if you build an army of dwarf with Adamantine armor and swords, this will bring more and more enemies.
And that's the awesome thing about DF that I love, you will lose, but by losing you learn a new thing or will have a great story to tell.
The Sunflower at the background is staring at my soul
I'll always remember this one game of Tetris where I reached the maximum score the device could display. After breaking another line my score was reset to 0 ...
I personally think Tetris saved the word from WW3 at least during the 80's and 90's.
I admire your analytical prowess. Keep it up! Love the content.
LOL the comment responses were just him defending the assertions made in the video.
I'd love to see an analysis like this done on Puyo Puyo/Puyo Pop. Considered by some to be the most strategic of any competitive puzzle game.
Scuti says otherwise. Time to delete the video.
Not sure if you will read this Jamin. But the last episode (or was it before that?) I had criticized you for talking about social issues in games like feminism. Despite the fact I didn't attack you meanly like alot of people did. And despite the fact I agree with what you were saying in the end. I still want to apologize for anything I said. You do good work on this channel and make people think about games on more then just "Lets have fun shooting stuff" level.
SonOfAKing Honesty on the internet. You, sure. deserve a medal.
DRakshasa you mean *sir?
SW99 Yes. Yes I do :)
It takes a a lot of huts to apologize like that. I'm sure even if he doesn't respond he will notice and appreciate your comment
SonOfAKing You are a being of wonderment and you make me happy.
I've had the thing where i see tetris in weird placed on buildings back when i used to play it alot. Also, back when 2048 was popular, I couldn't keep eye contact cause everyone I looked at, I'd visualize their eyes merge together and become a nose, then those merge together and become a mouth, and their mouths merge together to become another face. My mind literally saw 2048 in everything.
I have a knock off version I got offline somewhere where the boxes are six sided dice. The levels are things like a cat face, a Christmas tree and whatever. :)
The song is the reason why it is so addicting for me