@nyanbinary1717 Thanks, she was more of my sister's friend, but I knew her and her family all through our school years. A very nice young lady just starting her adult life.
I used to say the same during my time in the military when we were supposed to fawn after VIPs , thats why I never reached the giddy heights I suppose lol
WJLA Thank you for releasing this from your archives!!! I knew this was a very important & interesting video that the whole area & our country would greatly appreciate.
I grew up quite close to where this happened. I was there right after it happened, my folks heard about it and we went to see. It was very foggy and rainy. When we arrived there was very few 1st responders on scene. I very well remember looking down the mountain at the tree, it looked like a giant lawn mower had come up the side of the mountain. There was clothes and papers all over. Remember the smell of burning fuel. I saw exactly 1 body, she was a flight attendant still strapped into her seat. She was a pretty blonde woman. We got moved off by police shortly after that. I’ll never forget what I saw all those yrs ago, despite being very young.
Some years ago I found the credit card of passenger Frederick Neal Lorenz at the base of a tree. I've been trying to contact city officials and family members to get it back to his family but have had no luck...
I was a new stewardess ( name change to flight attendant was still to come) age 22 with 2 years under my belt. We learned of the accident at check-in. How to describe the atmosphere - heavy, tense, almost as if there were tiny sparks in the air, nothing coming from any employee. The captain for my flight walked up to desk and calmly announced that he wasn’t flying that day. I was relieved and not until then did I realize the tension I was carrying. The heavy, tense atmosphere didn’t change. We were allowed to go home. I flew another 36 years, have been retired for 16 yet still remember that day.
Ok, the critics have a point: PUT A DATE!! Then, it's sad that no one ever put up another memorial or at least tried to keep the old one up. And for some idiots to say "no one of importance was on the plane" was a good representation of how society can think. But very sad for them to say it...
The Safety Representative from the Airline Pilots Association for this accident was John J. "Bud" Ruddy. Ruddy was instrumental in getting the ground proximity radars installed in all airliners in the wake of this accident. The scene was so devastating that many of the first responders who worked the scene resigned from their respective agencies rather than have to face the possibility of experiencing what they went through ever again.
This accident is the reason ATC gives pilots an altitude to maintain until they verify they are established on the final approach course and their position is verified in the cockpit.
The “maintain till established” call is indeed a big shift in ATC callouts due to this crash, but a FAR larger change was the mandate for GPWS systems on all commercial / Part 121 flights. GPWS would go on to save countless hundreds (thousands?) of lives in subsequent years… even today.
The news reported there was of no one of importance on that plane? Whoa, what a cold callous insenstive remark, as if all those people who died were insignificant.
Since so many relatives of the victims are still living, it seems a better memorial could be erected regardless of current ownership. The crash did help change procedures, and that has benefitted all. Those who lost their lives in this tragedy deserve recognition and honor.
Unfortunately it’s in the middle of nowhere, on a road that’s very much monitored by the US Govt for access to the mount weather facility. It would be nice, but is also probably one of the last places the government wants to pay to build something that would draw a crowd.
Ironically, there was another B727 that occurred later the same evening of Dec 1st, just north of NYC. It was empty except for the crew , going to pick up the then Baltimore Colts. Northwest flight 6231. A very sad aviation day.
My wife and I were driving from Providence, RI back to Washington, DC that day, coming home from a Thanksgiving trip. At that time, she worked for ALPA in membership services and had to take care of the insurance and other issues related to these crashes by TWA and Northwest. At the ALPA Christmas paety that year, I was told that the public would never hear the truth about that Northwest crash, because neither the pilot nor copilot was flying the plane. The flight engineer had the controls and this was just after takeoff in a thunderstorm. I was told that flight engineers were often allowed to fly a bit, but that admitting this would scare the flying public.
An incident I will never forget. December 1, 1974. What a mess and there's still a mark on the rock where they crashed into scooting across the road. And up until that point no one, except those who lived on Mt. Weather, knew there was a secret underground Civil Defense Nuke base on/in Mt. Weather. Mt. Weather got it's name from the miners who used to bore into the mountain because the weather on top of the mountain changes so quickly. The old mines are what became the underground nuke survival facility in the 60s. I worked there years later for FEMA. Super cool history but no longer top secret.
I was nearly 15...although I lived in the Chicago suburbs I remember this very well. Just 2 years before I flew TWA to Italy over the ocean but it was a 747
@@juliemanarin4127wow! I think anyone flying prior to the 80's was taking a big risk. Bigger still in the 60's. In 1960, alone, there were 7 crashes: 3 were from the Lockheed Electra, alone. In 1959, there were 9 crashes! Crazy time to fly.
Excellent documentary. I grew up in the aviation business. My father worked for DAC, then McDonald Douglas for 30 years. My Uncle,the same (they were brothers). My ex-husband worked in his entire career for Mc D, then Boeing his entire career. I even worked at McD for a few years. I've been a passenger for my whole life - from 4 months old to this day at 60!b I love explaining to people how much more safe it is to fly than to drive! I'm a traveler, it's in my blood. I am grateful for the continuing improvements in the safety of flying. God bless the pilots and the attendants.
And here it is a few days later and it’s still not corrected. Not getting facts correct just aggravates this traumatic event. Such a simple fix! I don’t get it.
The documentary rightly focused on that terrible comment about no one of importance and then did the same thing! What about the Brigadier General’s wife that also lost her life?! She’s important too, but not a mention about her!
I grew up in northern Virginia. Back when I was a teenager and a young adult, Dulles airport was awesome. it was big, modern, never crowded and there was a brand new, dedicated highway to get you there. It’s completely different today.
"No one of importance on the plane." I can just see the DC establishment media saying that. DC workers (NW, DC, that is, and Capitol Hill workers feel that DC is special Royalty.
Oh, its worse than that. They mean, there was no celebrity on the plane. Some wellknown politician or actor or astronaut or whatever. "Just" a planeload of ordinary ppl, which btw is the vast majority of DC too.
"No one of importance?" That's of bad taste. One of my first memories is that of the plane crash that took the lives of almost all of the the Marshall University football team (except a handful of players who had previous injuries and didn't travel), all of the coaches save one, some school boosters, public servants, and the flight crew. I remember my parents, who were alumni of MU, bawling like babies listening to national news broadcaster Roger Mudd announce on TV what had happened...and, they didn't personally know any of the souls taken. The whole state of West Virginia mourned for years. Very poor comment.
I worked atop that mountain for 3 years before learning it was an airline crash site i was driving past every day. I always thought it was an auto accident site being remembered.
That's heartbreaking, terrible how they announced nobody of note was on that plane. Every single soul extinguished on that day was more than of note! 😢😢
Everyone on board that plane was important. The flight controller was responsible for that crash. The flight was given the wrong approach altitude. May the victims "Rest in Peace" and "Thoughts and Prayers" to the families and friends.
I just read the final report on this and it laid the blame to pilot error and the air traffic controller. Apparently there were some terms used about which there was some confusion but they were formally clarified after this. Plus it was very windy, they had gotten diverted for this reason, visibility was not good, and the plane was pushed down, then went back up then went back down just prior to the crash. So sad.
The way controllers and pilots talk to each other is confusing sometimes, the different accents, the very rapid communication, I'm surprised there aren't accidents everyday.
This was 10 years after the crash, but my girlfriend's family owned a weekend retreat cabin on the mountain. The first time we went there, we came across the crash site and it was obvious because you could see the cut off trees where it went into the side of the hill. Even after a decade, there were little pieces of the shattered plastic from the seats and trays on the ground in the woods, about the size of your pinky fingernail.
I had no idea of this accident. We moved from Fairfax, VA to Harper's Ferry, WV in 2000. I had to cross Mt Weather on. 9.11.2002 at around 11 AM, back home after my eldest child's dental appointment in Leesburg, VA. I had a difficult time convincing those who were in control of the road to let me through. Mt Weather is formidable on a good weather day. Still less in fog or rain. RIP those who were lost in this terrible accident.
Very interesting doc. Makes one appreciate the advances in technology & training since then. Unfortunate that so many people had to die to advance the airline industry. Same thing with ocean liners, theaters, & fire safety… so many had to suffer & die before changes were made & regs enforced.
This accident was one that should have been avoided with the use of simple math and the result of the dive and drive procedures in use at U.S. airlines until the new glass cockpit with electronic vertical navigation. Dive and drive means that pilots would get a descent clearance from ATC and they would to that altitude at idle power, level off and wait for the next step down. Many time the airplane would travel many miles in level flight to the next descent. That is a very inefficient way to operate an airplane based on fuel use alone. I was a very lucky young pilot in 1969 and was hired by a cargo airline as a DC8 First Officer flying from JFK to and from Europe and military flying between the west coast and Vietnam. There was a pilot furlough in January 1970 but I was able to secure another DC8 First Officer job at one of the supplemental airlines that flew charter groups to Europe primarily during the summer. At the end of September that job also ended in a furlough so I was again unemployed. I then applied to East African Airways in Nairobi, Kenya and trained on the SVC10 as a First Office. At that time most of the pilot there were British and still very much under the British influence. During training I was introduced to a book written by the Chief Test Pilot at the ARB, Air Registry Board titled “Handling the Big Jets” by D.P. Davies. It had been published in three editions the third included the brand new B747. It was from that book I learned how to use simple math to fly a three degree descent from the top of descent until touchdown. Later years with the modern airplanes the MD11, MD10, A300-600, A310 I still used the same simple math used on the DC8, B747, B727, and SVC10. The simple math was used just to back up the results generated by the modern computers. In order to fly a three degree profile you have to descend 300 feet for each nautical mile traveled. This is the same for the ILS (Instrument Landing Systems) used at most airports for 60+ years. The Glide Slope on the ILS depending on terrain and obstacles. It may be 2.8 to 3.5 degrees. In order to fly this three degree profile you multiply the distance by 3. Use 3 X DISTANCE= ALTITUDE. 3x5=1500 ft., 3x10=3000 ft, 3x15=4500 ft. , 3x25=7500 ft. In order to maintain this three degree profile they half to descend at 5 x Ground Speed. 150k=750FPM, 250k=1250FPM, 300k=1500FPM, 400k=2000FPM, 500k=2500FPM In the case of TWA541 they were cleared to 1800 ft. They actually went below 1800 ft, I believe it was 1670 ft where they hit due to altimeter error. The NTSB mentioned a few possibilities but probably failed to mention the correct reason. I learned from using LIDO charts late in my pilot career. These European charts warn about altimeter errors caused by high winds over hilly or mountainous terrain. The exact conditions TWA was experiencing that night. Mount Weather is 25 Nautical Miles from DULLES IAD. ARMEL VORTAC is located on the airport and would have been the station used for the approach. Based on the location on the airport the VOR was you would correct your DME reading to give you a more exact distance from the end of runway 12. If the crew had been taught some simple math they would have known at that point 25 DME they had no reason to be lower than 7500 feet. Yes, the crew had made a mistake by not reading the charts correctly, but using simple math would have saved them.
they never explain the difference in terminology. If ATC uses a terminology that crashes the plane into the mountain then it seems like more than a difference in terms.
Wow I so remember that day 50 years ago. The terrible weather and being in church that morning hearing a loud noise. Then not long later hearing all the sirens of the emergency equipment responding. Not knowing what had happened. 😢 Locals all knew about Mt Weather and what was there after this the entire world knew. 😮
my friends dad was with the faa and we had access to the site, the top secret mt weather installation was right near by and the press found out all about because of this crash. The first thing you noticed in the daylight was how close they came to missing this mountain top, we are talking 100 feet. I looked west and saw trees clipped as wide as the plane and it looked very non violent, but, as it cross the paved road the hillside went up a few more feet, rather gently actually, BUT, right as it cross the road, there was a HUGE rock and the plane hit is dead on and just split the plane wide open nose to tail eliminating any protection the occupants might of had as the plane made a fairly gentle impact as if landing. We went back years later and there was still debris and passenger effects strewn all over the east side of the site.
I remember this awful tragedy. Very sad that it was made worse by the colossal mistakes made in the aftermath. The one good thing to come out of it was the GPW alarm. That has saved thousands of lives since. Unfortunately through “tombstone technology”…..
Very tragic and sad day for everyone. I lived in Loudoun and was flying home that same day. In fact, my plane was due about the same time as this flight and my parent were very sad/scared to hear about the crash, yet relieved to hear my flight was delayed and would be ok. It was my first flight away from home and only 10yo at the time.
No one important? First, off, they were all important. They were human beings. But there was a nurse on that flight. There was an army officer who broke racial barriers and started a program that is still around today? That is HUGE! And I promise, the reason the reporters didn't mention that, was because of him being Black. If he were a white army officer who did those things, they would have known about it and mentioned him. At the time though, it was just....some black guy in the army.
The first time I went to see the comments was after hearing the "no one of importance" reports. What an outrage, I can't even imagine what family members felt.
I remember this well. Just a few years later a good friend of mine purchased a home in Bluemont on the road where the crash occurred. We visited the crash site several times.
I was like a teenager back in them days. It was a complete & different time period. And as a kid if the President was on TV you saw nothing else except him is a type of an example even if you didn’t want to watch him he was on all channels!! If I told my teacher about world wide internet & I be typing this right now in 2024. That boy is crazy he needs mental illness to help him now!! That is what I would have gotten.
Very informative. Tragic loss of life that should never have happened. That being said, I could do without the overly melodramatic, maudlin musical accompaniment. One doesn't need the gloomy music. The people that make these videos all seem to think we need it to make us realise the seriousness of the subject. Reality is that it simply gets in the way of the facts and distracts from the story.
I remember this as I lived in Maryland at the time. I was 11 and my sister was 8 and we were celebrating her birthday with a party and I heard it on the radio because they cut from the music to give the details of what they had at the time. Me and my 11 year old self was mad because they stopped the music not really realizing the enormity of what had just happened. After a while they started playing music again and I’ll never forget this, the first song that came on was The Carpenters Wait Mr Postman. Every time I hear that song I always think about those poor, VERY IMPORTANT people who lost their lives. RIP. 💔
Wow! As a person who worked tirelessly for decades as a Registered Nurse and saved many lives I take offense with the statement by the talking heads that no one of importance was on that plane. Every human being on that plane was important to someone 😢
In July 1963 when I was on leave from the Air Force, my mother and I took NWA Flight 80 (Boeing 720B Fan-Jet) from the Twin Cities to Dulles with one stop at Detroit. Although I was born in DC back in 1944, we moved from Silver Spring MD to St Paul in 1956. In 1963 we were returning to visit relatives before I flew to Gunter AFB in Montgomery AL and my mother flew back to the Twin Cities. This was the one and only time I’d been to Dulles and I knew nothing about Mount Weather. In fact I hadn’t learned of the TWA Flight 514 tragedy until today. I haven’t flown commercial for several decades but flying is certainly safer these days. It seems there were deadly airline accidents about every few years from the 1950s to the 1990s.
There were dozens every year worldwide. In the US alone there were an average of three or more every year in the 1960s. When you consider that, excluding commuter/regional, there has been bit a single death in the US since 2001, we have come a long way!
My sister's wedding was that night, about 40 miles South of the crash. I definitely remember how bad the fog was that night, going the 6 miles home from the Church. I had a Teacher who was on a KVG crew that helped cut the path to the crash site. You could still see the damage to the trees up until a few years ago.
I walked down to the Wilson bridge that day and saw a 727 preparing to land at National Airport and to this day I can't believe it made it. I was 10 years old at the time and would not have wanted to be a passenger on that jet being tossed about like a toy....no wonder they were diverting flights.
In so many cases, human beings are destined for the pain of learning from mistakes. I can only imagine the few people who were trying to correct this misscommation rior to the accident. I can seriously imagine people being scoffed at or even worse, being forced out of jobs. The obvious was before them yet the others never saw it coming. RIP.
Pilot should have asked for clarification, citing the approach sheet that plainly stated the minimum was 3400. Tower should have clarified that he was cleared to an *eventual* 1800 feet, but to honor the approach sheet minimums until terain allowed it. I would say the tower made a mistake, but the pilot should have erred on the side of caution. You can always go around if you come in too high. You don't get a second chance if you come in too low.
I am interested in the topic but it’s kind of frustrating that I have to read so much of it. I watch RUclips because I’m mildly dyslexic and reading screens that keep disappearing is difficult.
I was a kid when the plane crashed i was in covington va it was snowing that night and we were woke up by a noise and my dad said that, that sounds like a plane has crashed somewhere i don't know if it was because of the snow and the sound traveled through the mountains we went to the crash site about a month later you could see where the wings and the round shape of the plane cut through the trees i remember one of the wings was still on leading side of the road in the woods and there was blue crabs scattered everywhere and I reached down and picked something up from the ground and it was about the size of a quarter and it had long black hair on it and my dad said throw that down and leave things alone my dad said that it was a piece of scalp i will never forget that or the sight of the crash.
My father worked for TWA when this happened. And had to go to help. He had to pick up the victims and deliver them to their families . He said it was a horrible sight. The things he described were nightmarish.
My aunt had a friend who was on that flight. She was scared to fly (never did in her whole life) and this just confirmed her fears. Weirdly ironic that it crashed next to the nuclear war bunker, which plans for everyone's sudden death.
I shouldn't watch these things I still shed tears for these family's losses after 52 years. I am glad that the issues that caused this Tragedy helped change things in The industry to save many more lives.
I drive past this site going to work. On the recent 50th anniversary someone came out and put a bunch of flags and a new larger cross around the rock. I was told by a co-worker that there have been various memorials at the rock over the years, but the current owner of the property has taken them down. I'm not sure how accurate this is, since I'm hearing it second hand. RIP to all who lost their lives that day. After seeing this documentary, I will never see that little spot in the road the same.
“No one of importance”… what a horrible statement. Everyone on that plane was important. RIP, all.
Exactly! 😢
@@imlistening1137 Yes. One of the most insensitive statements of the century. They should have lost their right to broadcast.
What is WRONG with people today? To say such a thing!
@marigeobrien technically it was in 1974, but that still doesn't excuse them for saying such a heartless thing.
@ That was in the 70s! Guess it was the start of the downfall!
I was surprised to see this in my feed. I had a childhood friend on that plane. She was on her way back to college after Thanksgiving break. RIP, Liz.
🙏🙏
Wow. That's hard to take. 🙏
………and I bet she was important to you.
Sorry to hear you got ambushed by it. I hope you’re doing well and that you have good memories of your time with her.
@nyanbinary1717 Thanks, she was more of my sister's friend, but I knew her and her family all through our school years. A very nice young lady just starting her adult life.
13:30 "there was no one of importance" -blasphemy
You can say that again! 😢
reporters dont always think when reporting the news same goes tru for this very day
@@davidharris2519
They don't even report the news now
Facanating an horrifying that nothing a wrongly worded phrase like that can still have an impact on a person 50 years later.
No billionaires or politicians! What a stupid thing to say about people dying in a plane crash. Reporter is an idiot!
RIP BG Cartwright and all of the 92 VIPs of this flight.
Everybody on the plane was important.😢
I used to say the same during my time in the military when we were supposed to fawn after VIPs , thats why I never reached the giddy heights I suppose lol
Absolutely agree. What a horrible thing to say and hear.
Nope
@LocryriGirlTexas
@SteveToes-b4f Nope what?
This is heartbreaking and EVERY SINGLE PERSON on that plane was a person of importance!!!
And 14:05 yet again. Shameless reporting-utter disregard of normal passengers with families
WJLA
Thank you for releasing this from your archives!!!
I knew this was a very important & interesting video that the whole area & our country would greatly appreciate.
I grew up quite close to where this happened. I was there right after it happened, my folks heard about it and we went to see. It was very foggy and rainy. When we arrived there was very few 1st responders on scene. I very well remember looking down the mountain at the tree, it looked like a giant lawn mower had come up the side of the mountain. There was clothes and papers all over. Remember the smell of burning fuel. I saw exactly 1 body, she was a flight attendant still strapped into her seat. She was a pretty blonde woman. We got moved off by police shortly after that. I’ll never forget what I saw all those yrs ago, despite being very young.
🙏🙏
🙏🙏🙏😢
50th Anniversary of this terrible crash. I remember it…I was a Junior in HS. So, so sad.
Broadrun?
I live about 25 miles from the crash site. This was huge news around here when it happened.
Some years ago I found the credit card of passenger Frederick Neal Lorenz at the base of a tree. I've been trying to contact city officials and family members to get it back to his family but have had no luck...
I was a new stewardess ( name change to flight attendant was still to come) age 22 with 2 years under my belt. We learned of the accident at check-in.
How to describe the atmosphere - heavy, tense, almost as if there were tiny sparks in the air, nothing coming from any employee. The captain for my flight walked up to desk and calmly announced that he wasn’t flying that day. I was relieved and not until then did I realize the tension I was carrying. The heavy, tense atmosphere didn’t change. We were allowed to go home. I flew another 36 years, have been retired for 16 yet still remember that day.
Ok, the critics have a point: PUT A DATE!! Then, it's sad that no one ever put up another memorial or at least tried to keep the old one up. And for some idiots to say "no one of importance was on the plane" was a good representation of how society can think. But very sad for them to say it...
The Safety Representative from the Airline Pilots Association for this accident was John J. "Bud" Ruddy. Ruddy was instrumental in getting the ground proximity radars installed in all airliners in the wake of this accident. The scene was so devastating that many of the first responders who worked the scene resigned from their respective agencies rather than have to face the possibility of experiencing what they went through ever again.
This accident is the reason ATC gives pilots an altitude to maintain until they verify they are established on the final approach course and their position is verified in the cockpit.
The “maintain till established” call is indeed a big shift in ATC callouts due to this crash, but a FAR larger change was the mandate for GPWS systems on all commercial / Part 121 flights.
GPWS would go on to save countless hundreds (thousands?) of lives in subsequent years… even today.
@@EstorilEm Yes. You are very correct in this.
@@EstorilEmHey, I remember you - I've read many of your excellent comments on the weather boards in past years - good to see you here, too!
Thank you WJLA for posting this. I was 22 that year and had to fly around the country, but I don't remember this crash. A good reminder...
The news reported there was of no one of importance on that plane? Whoa, what a cold callous insenstive remark, as if all those people who died were insignificant.
May they rest in peace and condolences to their families
Very sad. Never heard about this story. And yes YOU ALL were important to the people in your life who loved you. What a terrible thing to say !! 😡
Everyone on the plane was important to somebody 😢
Since so many relatives of the victims are still living, it seems a better memorial could be erected regardless of current ownership. The crash did help change procedures, and that has benefitted all. Those who lost their lives in this tragedy deserve recognition and honor.
Unfortunately it’s in the middle of nowhere, on a road that’s very much monitored by the US Govt for access to the mount weather facility. It would be nice, but is also probably one of the last places the government wants to pay to build something that would draw a crowd.
What a Lovely lady you interviewed , the daughter . Bless her heart ❤️
Wasn't she just and the way she told us about that disgusting "report" showed real strength
This was a really well done documentary. Covered it from all angles and with consideration for all those affected. Thank you for sharing it on here.
Far more important than those who are nothing! Shame on our US media & govt!
Some things never change!
Then you know what type of monsters run media and Government
Ironically, there was another B727 that occurred later the same evening of Dec 1st, just north of NYC. It was empty except for the crew , going to pick up the then Baltimore Colts. Northwest flight 6231. A very sad aviation day.
My wife and I were driving from Providence, RI back to Washington, DC that day, coming home from a Thanksgiving trip. At that time, she worked for ALPA in membership services and had to take care of the insurance and other issues related to these crashes by TWA and Northwest. At the ALPA Christmas paety that year, I was told that the public would never hear the truth about that Northwest crash, because neither the pilot nor copilot was flying the plane. The flight engineer had the controls and this was just after takeoff in a thunderstorm. I was told that flight engineers were often allowed to fly a bit, but that admitting this would scare the flying public.
Yes I remember watching the Wonder RUclips channel about that horrible day
An incident I will never forget. December 1, 1974. What a mess and there's still a mark on the rock where they crashed into scooting across the road.
And up until that point no one, except those who lived on Mt. Weather, knew there was a secret underground Civil Defense Nuke base on/in Mt. Weather.
Mt. Weather got it's name from the miners who used to bore into the mountain because the weather on top of the mountain changes so quickly.
The old mines are what became the underground nuke survival facility in the 60s. I worked there years later for FEMA. Super cool history but no longer top secret.
I was nearly 15...although I lived in the Chicago suburbs I remember this very well. Just 2 years before I flew TWA to Italy over the ocean but it was a 747
@@juliemanarin4127wow! I think anyone flying prior to the 80's was taking a big risk. Bigger still in the 60's. In 1960, alone, there were 7 crashes: 3 were from the Lockheed Electra, alone. In 1959, there were 9 crashes! Crazy time to fly.
@@scootermom1791 But, we were trusting in technology back in those decades.
We don't live far from the crash site. We usually drive along Blue Ridge Mt. Road, especially in the Fall. It's lovely. Sad memory.
How DARE they say nobody of importance was on the flight!! That piano was way too loud!
Excellent documentary. I grew up in the aviation business. My father worked for DAC, then McDonald Douglas for 30 years. My Uncle,the same (they were brothers). My ex-husband worked in his entire career for Mc
D, then Boeing his entire career. I even worked at McD for a few years. I've been a passenger for my whole life - from 4 months old to this day at 60!b I love explaining to people how much more safe it is to fly than to drive! I'm a traveler, it's in my blood.
I am grateful for the continuing improvements in the safety of flying.
God bless the pilots and the attendants.
What a disgusting report, the person who said that is a bloody disgrace. They should have been named and shamed (or worse) repulsive person
Wonderful memorial to the passengers and the people involved. God bless them all.
Except the greedy jerks of RUclips just HAD TO PLACE ADS IN THIS CONTENT AGAINST THEIR OWN RULES!!
Hopefully you fired the thumbnail creator. TWI ? You had one job...
And here it is a few days later and it’s still not corrected. Not getting facts correct just aggravates this traumatic event. Such a simple fix! I don’t get it.
I was just about to post the same @@SeahorseyDad
The documentary rightly focused on that terrible comment about no one of importance and then did the same thing! What about the Brigadier General’s wife that also lost her life?! She’s important too, but not a mention about her!
I grew up in northern Virginia. Back when I was a teenager and a young adult, Dulles airport was awesome. it was big, modern, never crowded and there was a brand new, dedicated highway to get you there. It’s completely different today.
Spartan, rt 28 is still thrre
16:56 I never realized Gen Cartwright and his wife were on board this flight. What a remarkable man! RIP, sir. Thank you for your service.
I am 50 years old. Lived here since I was 5. Very active in Loudoun county. How is this the first time I have ever heard of this accident.
Am 70 here in fairfax,va 20 miles from site. Can't remember this. Sorry for the losses🎉😢
Shall remember this well-researched, extraordinary touching documentary for a long time. God bless family members still surviving.
"No one of importance on the plane." I can just see the DC establishment media saying that. DC workers (NW, DC, that is,
and Capitol Hill workers feel that DC is special Royalty.
And they STILL DO
Oh, its worse than that. They mean, there was no celebrity on the plane. Some wellknown politician or actor or astronaut or whatever. "Just" a planeload of ordinary ppl, which btw is the vast majority of DC too.
RIP, to all souls lost, 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Medical examiners have a difficult job !
"No one of importance?" That's of bad taste. One of my first memories is that of the plane crash that took the lives of almost all of the the Marshall University football team (except a handful of players who had previous injuries and didn't travel), all of the coaches save one, some school boosters, public servants, and the flight crew. I remember my parents, who were alumni of MU, bawling like babies listening to national news broadcaster Roger Mudd announce on TV what had happened...and, they didn't personally know any of the souls taken. The whole state of West Virginia mourned for years. Very poor comment.
I worked atop that mountain for 3 years before learning it was an airline crash site i was driving past every day. I always thought it was an auto accident site being remembered.
I knew a guy in DC back in the 80s that missed that flight
That's heartbreaking, terrible how they announced nobody of note was on that plane. Every single soul extinguished on that day was more than of note! 😢😢
I can't believe they were so crass to say there was no one of importance on that plane. My heck! 😢😢😢😢😢
Everyone on board that plane was important. The flight controller was responsible for that crash. The flight was given the wrong approach altitude. May the victims "Rest in Peace" and "Thoughts and Prayers" to the families and friends.
I just read the final report on this and it laid the blame to pilot error and the air traffic controller. Apparently there were some terms used about which there was some confusion but they were formally clarified after this. Plus it was very windy, they had gotten diverted for this reason, visibility was not good, and the plane was pushed down, then went back up then went back down just prior to the crash. So sad.
The way controllers and pilots talk to each other is confusing sometimes, the different accents, the very rapid communication, I'm surprised there aren't accidents everyday.
This was 10 years after the crash, but my girlfriend's family owned a weekend retreat cabin on the mountain.
The first time we went there, we came across the crash site and it was obvious because you could see the cut off trees where it went into the side of the hill.
Even after a decade, there were little pieces of the shattered plastic from the seats and trays on the ground in the woods, about the size of your pinky fingernail.
All 92 people on board were very important to someone. They were important to people that didn't know them, as one human to another.
I had no idea of this accident.
We moved from Fairfax, VA to Harper's Ferry, WV in 2000. I had to cross Mt Weather on. 9.11.2002 at around 11 AM, back home after my eldest child's dental appointment in Leesburg, VA. I had a difficult time convincing those who were in control of the road to let me through.
Mt Weather is formidable on a good weather day. Still less in fog or rain.
RIP those who were lost in this terrible accident.
Very interesting doc. Makes one appreciate the advances in technology & training since then. Unfortunate that so many people had to die to advance the airline industry. Same thing with ocean liners, theaters, & fire safety… so many had to suffer & die before changes were made & regs enforced.
Thanks for posting. I live nearby and didn't know this story.
@22:50 - That’s Jules Bergman ! He was the famous ABC News reporter who was famous for narrating the 1969 Lunar Landing.
So he is a liar then?
This accident was one that should have been avoided with the use of simple math and the result of the dive and drive procedures in use at U.S. airlines until the new glass cockpit with electronic vertical navigation. Dive and drive means that pilots would get a descent clearance from ATC and they would to that altitude at idle power, level off and wait for the next step down. Many time the airplane would travel many miles in level flight to the next descent. That is a very inefficient way to operate an airplane based on fuel use alone.
I was a very lucky young pilot in 1969 and was hired by a cargo airline as a DC8 First Officer flying from JFK to and from Europe and military flying between the west coast and Vietnam. There was a pilot furlough in January 1970 but I was able to secure another DC8 First Officer job at one of the supplemental airlines that flew charter groups to Europe primarily during the summer. At the end of September that job also ended in a furlough so I was again unemployed. I then applied to East African Airways in Nairobi, Kenya and trained on the SVC10 as a First Office. At that time most of the pilot there were British and still very much under the British influence. During training I was introduced to a book written by the Chief Test Pilot at the ARB, Air Registry Board titled “Handling the Big Jets” by D.P. Davies. It had been published in three editions the third included the brand new B747. It was from that book I learned how to use simple math to fly a three degree descent from the top of descent until touchdown. Later years with the modern airplanes the MD11, MD10, A300-600, A310 I still used the same simple math used on the DC8, B747, B727, and SVC10. The simple math was used just to back up the results generated by the modern computers.
In order to fly a three degree profile you have to descend 300 feet for each nautical mile traveled. This is the same for the ILS (Instrument Landing Systems) used at most airports for 60+ years. The Glide Slope on the ILS depending on terrain and obstacles. It may be 2.8 to 3.5 degrees.
In order to fly this three degree profile you multiply the distance by 3. Use 3 X DISTANCE= ALTITUDE. 3x5=1500 ft., 3x10=3000 ft, 3x15=4500 ft. , 3x25=7500 ft. In order to maintain this three degree profile they half to descend at 5 x Ground Speed. 150k=750FPM, 250k=1250FPM, 300k=1500FPM, 400k=2000FPM, 500k=2500FPM
In the case of TWA541 they were cleared to 1800 ft. They actually went below 1800 ft, I believe it was 1670 ft where they hit due to altimeter error. The NTSB mentioned a few possibilities but probably failed to mention the correct reason. I learned from using LIDO charts late in my pilot career. These European charts warn about altimeter errors caused by high winds over hilly or mountainous terrain. The exact conditions TWA was experiencing that night.
Mount Weather is 25 Nautical Miles from DULLES IAD. ARMEL VORTAC is located on the airport and would have been the station used for the approach. Based on the location on the airport the VOR was you would correct your DME reading to give you a more exact distance from the end of runway 12. If the crew had been taught some simple math they would have known at that point 25 DME they had no reason to be lower than 7500 feet. Yes, the crew had made a mistake by not reading the charts correctly, but using simple math would have saved them.
Excellent documentary! Thank You! I actually lived right next to this crash site❤🙏
they never explain the difference in terminology. If ATC uses a terminology that crashes the plane into the mountain then it seems like more than a difference in terms.
Wow I so remember that day 50 years ago. The terrible weather and being in church that morning hearing a loud noise. Then not long later hearing all the sirens of the emergency equipment responding. Not knowing what had happened. 😢 Locals all knew about Mt Weather and what was there after this the entire world knew. 😮
my friends dad was with the faa and we had access to the site, the top secret mt weather installation was right near by and the press found out all about because of this crash. The first thing you noticed in the daylight was how close they came to missing this mountain top, we are talking 100 feet. I looked west and saw trees clipped as wide as the plane and it looked very non violent, but, as it cross the paved road the hillside went up a few more feet, rather gently actually, BUT, right as it cross the road, there was a HUGE rock and the plane hit is dead on and just split the plane wide open nose to tail eliminating any protection the occupants might of had as the plane made a fairly gentle impact as if landing. We went back years later and there was still debris and passenger effects strewn all over the east side of the site.
"no one of importance"... soul crushing 😕
VERY well presented upload.
I remember this awful tragedy. Very sad that it was made worse by the colossal mistakes made in the aftermath. The one good thing to come out of it was the GPW alarm. That has saved thousands of lives since. Unfortunately through “tombstone technology”…..
I used to live 15 minutes from there and my good friend lives there now.
Very tragic and sad day for everyone. I lived in Loudoun and was flying home that same day. In fact, my plane was due about the same time as this flight and my parent were very sad/scared to hear about the crash, yet relieved to hear my flight was delayed and would be ok. It was my first flight away from home and only 10yo at the time.
Wow…it was ‘Mount Weather’…that’s eerily ominous.
Small correction in the description to point out this was December 1st 1974
50yrs ago😢
No one important? First, off, they were all important. They were human beings. But there was a nurse on that flight. There was an army officer who broke racial barriers and started a program that is still around today? That is HUGE! And I promise, the reason the reporters didn't mention that, was because of him being Black. If he were a white army officer who did those things, they would have known about it and mentioned him. At the time though, it was just....some black guy in the army.
The first time I went to see the comments was after hearing the "no one of importance" reports. What an outrage, I can't even imagine what family members felt.
I remember this well. Just a few years later a good friend of mine purchased a home in Bluemont on the road where the crash occurred. We visited the crash site several times.
Why does it seem the FAA goes kicking and screaming to make a change that saves lives?
$
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@@bobbyd6680Bingo
Money. Everyone thinks is so much more important than people's lives. 🙄😢
I was like a teenager back in them days. It was a complete & different time period. And as a kid if the President was on TV you saw nothing else except him is a type of an example even if you didn’t want to watch him he was on all channels!! If I told my teacher about world wide internet & I be typing this right now in 2024. That boy is crazy he needs mental illness to help him now!! That is what I would have gotten.
My cousin had friends on this flight. So sad for these families yet today . Blessings 🙏💞 for all of the folks and families. Peace 🕊️🙏🕊️
Very informative. Tragic loss of life that should never have happened. That being said, I could do without the overly melodramatic, maudlin musical accompaniment. One doesn't need the gloomy music. The people that make these videos all seem to think we need it to make us realise the seriousness of the subject. Reality is that it simply gets in the way of the facts and distracts from the story.
And is mixed up 2 L O U D , most often as in here (bedduhh play Coltrane s CHIM-CHIM-CHE-RE next x ...).
@@sulevisydanmaa9981 Yep...as for me, I put on "All Apologies" by Nirvana but Charlie Parker or Coltrane would work too!
"No one of importance on the plane" is amazing how horrible that sounds.
I remember this as I lived in Maryland at the time. I was 11 and my sister was 8 and we were celebrating her birthday with a party and I heard it on the radio because they cut from the music to give the details of what they had at the time. Me and my 11 year old self was mad because they stopped the music not really realizing the enormity of what had just happened. After a while they started playing music again and I’ll never forget this, the first song that came on was The Carpenters Wait Mr Postman. Every time I hear that song I always think about those poor, VERY IMPORTANT people who lost their lives. RIP. 💔
How egregious is it to misspell THE THREE LETTER NAME OF THE AIRLINE THAT THE VIDEO IS LITERALLY ABOUT?! TWI? Really?!
RIP ☮️
TWI?? Come on!! Proofread.
IKR?
Wow! As a person who worked tirelessly for decades as a Registered Nurse and saved many lives I take offense with the statement by the talking heads that no one of importance was on that plane. Every human being on that plane was important to someone 😢
In July 1963 when I was on leave from the Air Force, my mother and I took NWA Flight 80 (Boeing 720B Fan-Jet) from the Twin Cities to Dulles with one stop at Detroit. Although I was born in DC back in 1944, we moved from Silver Spring MD to St Paul in 1956. In 1963 we were returning to visit relatives before I flew to Gunter AFB in Montgomery AL and my mother flew back to the Twin Cities. This was the one and only time I’d been to Dulles and I knew nothing about Mount Weather. In fact I hadn’t learned of the TWA Flight 514 tragedy until today. I haven’t flown commercial for several decades but flying is certainly safer these days. It seems there were deadly airline accidents about every few years from the 1950s to the 1990s.
There were dozens every year worldwide. In the US alone there were an average of three or more every year in the 1960s. When you consider that, excluding commuter/regional, there has been bit a single death in the US since 2001, we have come a long way!
I used to work at my weather and went by this site every day 😢😢😢
My sister's wedding was that night, about 40 miles South of the crash. I definitely remember how bad the fog was that night, going the 6 miles home from the Church. I had a Teacher who was on a KVG crew that helped cut the path to the crash site. You could still see the damage to the trees up until a few years ago.
I walked down to the Wilson bridge that day and saw a 727 preparing to land at National Airport and to this day I can't believe it made it. I was 10 years old at the time and would not have wanted to be a passenger on that jet being tossed about like a toy....no wonder they were diverting flights.
In so many cases, human beings are destined for the pain of learning from mistakes. I can only imagine the few people who were trying to correct this misscommation rior to the accident. I can seriously imagine people being scoffed at or even worse, being forced out of jobs.
The obvious was before them yet the others never saw it coming. RIP.
Your On Screen Title is wrong, it states “TWI Flight 514…”. It should read “TWA Flight 514…”!
Why do people get so freaked out by the more trivial errors. Who cares.
Pilot should have asked for clarification, citing the approach sheet that plainly stated the minimum was 3400.
Tower should have clarified that he was cleared to an *eventual* 1800 feet, but to honor the approach sheet minimums until terain allowed it.
I would say the tower made a mistake, but the pilot should have erred on the side of caution. You can always go around if you come in too high.
You don't get a second chance if you come in too low.
I am interested in the topic but it’s kind of frustrating that I have to read so much of it. I watch RUclips because I’m mildly dyslexic and reading screens that keep disappearing is difficult.
TWI?
How do you screw up the 1st part of the description but get it right all in 1 sentence?
Does nobody proof read anymore?
I was a kid when the plane crashed i was in covington va it was snowing that night and we were woke up by a noise and my dad said that, that sounds like a plane has crashed somewhere i don't know if it was because of the snow and the sound traveled through the mountains we went to the crash site about a month later you could see where the wings and the round shape of the plane cut through the trees i remember one of the wings was still on leading side of the road in the woods and there was blue crabs scattered everywhere and I reached down and picked something up from the ground and it was about the size of a quarter and it had long black hair on it and my dad said throw that down and leave things alone my dad said that it was a piece of scalp i will never forget that or the sight of the crash.
No way you heard that in Covington - that's 200 miles away!
My respects and condolences
That was a terrible statement said about no one of importance was on the plane that crashed. That is awful because all of them are important.
My father worked for TWA when this happened. And had to go to help. He had to pick up the victims and deliver them to their families . He said it was a horrible sight. The things he described were nightmarish.
How awful! No one of importance on the plane??? That is absolutely horrifying! Everyone on the plane is of importance!!
The FAA would do nothing to improve airline safety if the NTSB didn't recommend it. Nothing but bean counters
They should change the name of Dulles International Airport considering how corrupt the Dulles brothers were.
Totally agree. The Dulles brothers were horrible men.
@@pjhey947 to put it VERY mildly . . . Plenty of inferral evidence on the forum, in bigger and smaller bits & pieces ...
Started off well, but then devolved into complete dribble. 😂
My aunt had a friend who was on that flight. She was scared to fly (never did in her whole life) and this just confirmed her fears. Weirdly ironic that it crashed next to the nuclear war bunker, which plans for everyone's sudden death.
I shouldn't watch these things I still shed tears for these family's losses after 52 years. I am glad that the issues that caused this Tragedy helped change things in The industry to save many more lives.
Too many ads. I couldn't continue watching. I'm out. Peace.
I didn't get any. ??
I drive past this site going to work. On the recent 50th anniversary someone came out and put a bunch of flags and a new larger cross around the rock. I was told by a co-worker that there have been various memorials at the rock over the years, but the current owner of the property has taken them down. I'm not sure how accurate this is, since I'm hearing it second hand. RIP to all who lost their lives that day. After seeing this documentary, I will never see that little spot in the road the same.