Speaker combinations. Celestion Vintage 30 with G12T-75 and H creamback
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- When a recent customer asked us to explain how a Vintage 30 would sound mixed with a T75 or H creamback we thought, rather than explain in words, why not record the combinations in his cabinet. Also we had the chance to play two great amps in the 100W Marshall JMP and Mesa Boogie Stiletto Deuce.
The H creamback/V30 mix is a very popular combination, especially in over Fatboy 2x12 speaker cab, but back in the 80s and 90s it was quite common to see the T75 mixed with a V30 (the H creamback wasn't around until a few decades later). In this video we play through a few different style so you can see what each speaker and combination sounds like.
www.zillacabs....
We used a 1980 100W Marshall JMP and Mesa Boogie Stiletto Deuce, Fender strat, Prs Mira and various pedals. These speakers were all 16ohms.
The T-75 and Vintage 30 compliment one another perfectly!
Thanks for watching Dave, I think they are a great combination too.
Yeah, more of a ragged and scooped sound versus the creamy tone of the creamback sound.
Yeah the t75 blended more naturally w the v30. Tighter and punchier
The h75 sounded kinda hollow with the v30, more washed out, oddly. I think those warmer harmonics will get lost in a mix more .
Even though the t75 on its own here sounds terribly thin and scooped , Iv never had an issue cutting through with it and my marshall jvmhjs. It doesn’t sound limp in real life blasting music. That was with humbuckers too. Now that I play with p90s it sounds even more in your face and punchy.
Iv used v30s and they sound fine but idk. Realistically you can still cut with other speakers . And punchyness is more available with that extra top end, denser mid forward sounds don’t have that kind of punch. They sound denser, thicker, and stiff, not as expressive.
If people like the density of a v30 they can look at eminence speakers that make v30s sound as thin as the t75 here in comparison. Comparing two speakers side by side alters perception a lot. It’s like adding extra black tint and leaving the white alone in a black and white photo. Even tho the white didn’t seem so bright before, once you add extra darkness, the white looks way brighter in comparison.
Denser and flat mids aren’t always better . At the end of the day you want a vocal instrument
@@ZillaCabsBut what about the difference in sensitivity? One is 100db and the other 97db. Can that be paired?
Difference in wattage also.
Reconciliation for the T75! Finally the classic mix with a V30 captured. Bravo gentlemen.
hahaha yeah that speaker mix got forgot about for some reason. It is a great speaker and needs a bit more recognition I think. Thanks for watching as always Alastair.
I think the cream back and vintage 30 are a great combination the clarity and definition with the Strat shows the combination at its best.
Thanks Paul, I love that combination too. Thanks for watching.
The T75/V30 combo sounded great. Much better than I expected
It is a great speaker, it is overlooked way too often.
Oh yes, i sounds great! I ve got two T75 in my oversized 2x12 and may change one agains an V30 ...
I ve got an Heritage and V30 in an Marshall JVM 212c cabinet. To modern in my opinion.
@@ZillaCabs did you all ever do the Greenbacks mixed with the G12t75's together?
Soloed, I preferred the H over the T here. In combination, I preferred the T over H for the gainy stuff by far. H combo is pretty sweet for the single coil Hendrix-y stuff due to the extra mids. I've had the H/V30 in past. Currently have T/V30. Never heard then side by side like that. Both are great. My take away is I would go with H if I was mainly a single coil guy. T seems to favor humbucker sound. Thanks for putting this out!
I'd love to see a good video comparing the G12K100/V30 combo to the T75/V30 . P.S. glad to see some Stiletto love here. Seriously underappreciated amp. The best of the Marshall-y amps that Mesa has done IMO. I've tried them all. Running mine through Mesa Traditional 4x12 slant with UK V30s and, I assume, Chinese T75s in X pattern.
Well said
How does this only get 459 thumbs up over 3 years?
Great vid.
Thanks mate, that's very kind of you.
H Creamback and V30 with that mid gain strat tone was saucy. That’s the winner for me.
The V30 / H creamback mix is so great! I am really liking my black on green vertical super fatboy you just did for me with that mix of speakers. Thanks a lot! /Frederik
Hi Frederik, glad you like it mate. It is a great mix of speakers, probably the most popular mix we do. I think the T75 held up really well here. I think a T75/H creamback video is on the cards.
Vintage 30 is an absolute beauty
I find myself coming back to the T75, these days. I didn't like them for a long time, because of the Marshall JCM900 + 1960A thing. But, these speakers are underrated. I have one combined with a Celestion A-Type in a 2x12". I really like that combination, whether it is for clean or for heavy stuff with a Diezel VH4. The mid-grunt of the A-Type with the T75 top-end. Great...
I love the Cremback combination, so nice classic vibe!
I like the H-Creamback on it's own however the V30/G12T-75 combination sounds best.
Thanks for watching, I think the V30/T75 combination came across really well in this one too.
The Creamback & V30 sounds great together! Not a fan of the T75, though.
Great comparison! For me this just confirmed I made the right choice for myself removing the T75s in my 1960A 4x12 and replaced them with 2 H75 Creambacks and 3 Vintage 30s in X pattern. The cab immediately felt better to me and even without breaking in the speakers, the high end harshness and low end boominess of the T75s were gone. I know there's quite a bit of variation in T75s depending when they were made. My cab dates back around 2003 so the T75s were from the same period. It was a matter of, the more I played the cab, the less I liked those speakers. I'm already way more comfortable with my new H75s/V30s mix.
The Vintage 30 really helps the T75 here as it fills in the mids but it doesn't remove the woolly low end of the T75...
20-something years ago I bought a 1960A cab with the standard T-75s in it. Back then I didn’t even know there were dramatic differences in speakers and just figured a Marshall cab was the good standard. I’ve used it for 20 years for metal and rock. It wasn’t until my Digitech 2112 preamp finally bought the farm that I got a Helix and started experimenting with different speaker types and IRs. Turns out I was missing quite a lot!!! I had apparently just been making up for where my T75s were lacking with the parametric EQ in my preamp, and that’s fine if you have that. What I’ve come to find is that the V30 by itself sounds shrill to me, the T75 muddy... the combo is amazing. If I had only one speaker to choose it would probably be an EVH or a Creamback M. But given when the V30 came out, I don’t know why Marshall hadn’t been doing T75/V30 mixes in their 412’s from the start!
Just bought a pair of V30s to put in my 1960A tomorrow. Can’t wait!
@@TheStereoField You gonna put them in an X pattern?! I’d LOVE to know your results. That’s my fantasy rig with a MESA TC-50 on top of it and controlled with my Helix.
@@micuronium yup that’s my plan...got too busy today to make it happen, hopefully tomorrow. Super stoked though
When I got my 1960a, I was a little disappointed with the speakers. Put 2 v30s in an X pattern in there and I personally love it. The volume difference is less noticable in a 4x12 imo, my result was the v30 filling in where the T75 lacks frequency wise. I also happen to have a 2112 and love that thing, I use it as a preamp into the power section of my Diavlo 100, lovely in its own right. I pick that unit over my axe fx 3 sometimes, maybe the tubes add some warmth that the digital dsps dont give me. Always nice to find another 2112/2120 user =]
Love the nasal punch of the T75! I had those back in the 90's. I think I'll get one of these. Of course the V30 rocks, as usual.
Hi Terry, the T75s can be found pretty cheap too. I bought a pair for £50 the other week, the early nineties ones and they were great. And it is a good kind of nasal isn't it, kind of useful in a lot of styles but also a smidge unforgiving sometimes.
@@ZillaCabs I have been using my UK made T75's in my 1996 Marshall JCM900 cab since new. They sound fantastic but I made a mistake by getting Greenbacks for my other cab and I love them. So I am considering finally letting them go to get some more Greenbacks. But I am being hesitant since I have had them untouched for so many years. Lol
Very good comparison. I use the Vintage 30s and G12T-75s in both my 4x12 cabs. Sounds amazing using any amp head.
Thanks, glad you like it. That is a great mix.
I wouldn't mix T75s with V30s unless it was a 4x12 with the T75s on top and the V30s in the bottom. Too much of an efficiency difference between those two, but that way things would even out.
For a 2x12 I think the H75 mixes much better with the V30. They're similar in volume and their mids complement each other very well. The result is a loud, very broad sounding 2x12.
Once again, great work, guys.
Might I add a suggestion: a Redback with a K100 (both 8 ohms) in a 2x12 is also a killer, more bass heavy mix.
It is important to point out the difference in sensitivity rating but in practise it doesn't cause as big a problem as you would think. Do you prefer to load the lower rated speakers in the top in a 4x12? I quite like to put them in an X pattern... but there is no right way to do that in my opinion. Thanks for watching!
@@ZillaCabs yeah, the quieter speakers in the top, because those are the ones more on axis with our ears. X pattern is cool, but if we're talking about two very different speakers, the cab will also sound different depending on where you stand (which side of the cab). I would do it with the H75, but not the T75 - the same logic as with a 2x12.
The X pattern of two different voiced speakers evens them out nice. It’s true about your position in relationship to the cab but guitar cabs are not hi-fi
I would not be too pleased with 75 up top and 30 on the bottom; it sounds logical in theory but in practice you have comb filtering and wave cancellations happening .
@@ZillaCabs Hey, which pattern of T75 and V30 would you recommend for a diagonal 2x12 then (it's an old Marshall Silver Jubilee 2556)?
Just subscribed, love these comparisons, keep them coming
My experience with V30 and T75 is from impulse response. I mix IR from marshall 1960 with T75 and engl 4x12 with V30. It's not the best way to know the characteristic of each speaker, but I like the result. For V30+H75, I use zilla fat boy IR from various brand. It has the same characteristic like the one in this video. Smooth treble and big bottom end. I find using V30+H75 requires me to select and tweak amp sim more carefully. Too much gain/ bass / mid will make the sound too muddy. The same also happen when I use dark sounding amp sim. I find it easier to find my favorite sound using combination of V30+T75. Despite that, I love V30+H75. So I keep trying to find amp sim that sound good with those speakers. I even have V30+H75 on my combo amp. That's how much I love V30+H75.
I love the vintage 30 speaker. I like to combine it with an alnico. My two favorites are Tone Tubby red or two Celestion Blues. My 2 cents.
I can really see how those work well together
I have the T75 and V30 in my Orange PPC212. The speakers are placed offset, one is higher than the other, not in line side by side. At first I placed the T75 at the top, didnt dig the sound too much, it sounded mushy and loose. But when i set the V30 at top and T75, it made night and day difference.
I tried this too in an offset/diagonal 2x12. My personal perception is: if the T75 is higher, you get a harsh and cold sound, as if the worst characteristics of both are mixed. If the V30 is higher, the T75 becomes somewhat eclipsed, but you get the sound of a V30 with all the goodness of the T75 added. To me it doesn't really sound like an equal blend, then, its more like the basic sound of the V30 is improved with a more rounded bass and presence in the top end. But that's just my take.
@@domidigital thanks for the feedback
Thanks for the video fellas - just what I wanted to hear, considering replacing my Eminence Red Coat with the H Creamback to go with my V30
Thanks for that Simon, I'm glad you found it useful.
Ive just mismatched an A-type and a Creamback 65... im still waiting on my new head so I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but liked the idea of a brit and an American tone in one cab blended
That’s a great idea. I’m gonna try that with the Celestion IRs tomorrow!
So how did it work?
H Creamback and Vintage 30 killer!
Damn. Both sound pristine
I suspected that the T-75 (my favorite speaker, btw) would not help the harshness of the V30. I think the demo proved me right.
I know what you mean, but I still quite like that mix of speakers.
I like the G12 T-75, V30 combo better. Both combinations sounded good but the V30 G12T combination had more clarity and sounded more balanced to me.
It is a great mix, and quite overlooked these days. It was fun mixing them in together again. Thanks for watching.
Lately I've been having a strange urge to stick a T75 and a redback in my superfatboy. In my head it seems like they'd work well together, but in practice...
I can see that working well. There would be a slight drop in volume between the two, like between the T75 and V30 but in practise it rarely causes a problem.
I have both vintage 30 and t75 . Just purchased a cheap 2 12 cab peavey 2 12 mc. What's interesting is its a vertical 2 12 but the speakers are sealed from each other and the top section has a removable back. I think it's interesting . Now I think your fat angled done like that with both backs having a removable panel on each speaker. Problem with this one take the back off the top and it's all open
.love your stuff. Hello from canada
The creamback combo has a warm sweetness to it. The T75 combo sounds a little more guttural, a bit sterile, harsh, and fizzy. But good for that modern metal sound if that's what you're going for.
Stiletto Deuce. JMP on steroids. Love my Deuce!
Thanks guys!
The H Creamback + V30 sounds better for leads, but I don't care about that. Good lead sounds are a dime a dozen. The T75 + V30 sounds better for chugs, and most other rhythms as well. It doesn't get all constipated in the mids.
Great video.mates!!
Thanks Robbie, glad you ejoyed it.
funny thing…I stumbled upon T75/V30 mix with my IRs 😅 Really lined it. I thought it was just some “non real” anomaly. But, it sounds just like this.
There's a lot of hate out there for the T75 but in the right situation I think its a cracker. Glad you're in the T75 club too ;)
T-75 for rhythm, Creamback for cleans & leads. Both mixed with the V30s.
I just like v30.
It's a solid speaker by itself, nothing wrong with just using V30s, it's a cool speaker. Thanks for watching.
I like the UK made T75's in 1996 Marshall cab but I am thinking of finally letting them go since I have gone Greenbacks in my other cab.. Once you go Green.. lol.
I love you so much. Thanks.
That is very kind of you.
Have you tried the Creamback Neo + Century Vintage Neo in an open back or closed back?? I liked the video of forgotten speakers that featured the Century, and was thinking about the possible super light speaker combos since things like the Tone Master Twin has come out, and the speakers in that thing SUUUUUUCK!
oooh, that's a video right there! I think that we will do that. Thanks for the suggestion!
What would an h creamback mixed with a T-75 sound like?
Hi, thanks for watching. They mix great but it's not done that often. We have a video of the H creamback vs 21 the speakers and T75 vs 21 other speakers so that may give a little insight.
I like how you shoot your videos in your work clothes
Oh haha, I normally don't but things were flat out that day and I just nipped in to the studio.
I´m very surprise how good is T75/V30 combination, because T75 isn´t my favorite Celestion (his whole sound). Anyway V30/ H75 is my cup of tea a little more. Maybe "problem" is that all Zilla videos with Celestion speakers sounds great and it doesn't matter what type is it. Except Copperback and Sidewinder on high gain territory.. ;-)..Thanks Guys !
hi paul I put UK celestion vintage 30 60w and uk celestion creamback 75w into one of your fatboy 2x12 cabs and never looked back sounds unreal.
Hi Ian, it is good hearing from you. That is a really cool mix. I have to admit, although I hadn't forgotten about this mix, I hadn't been giving it the attention it probably deserves. 2020 for me is becoming the year of the G12-65 and G12-75.
@@ZillaCabs hi Paul sounds like a great combination keep up the great work there at zilla all my m8s are asking where I got the fatboy 2x12 so I told them check zilla out
Zilla cabs, could you do a video of the 65 with the 75 mix you have? And compare it to the v30 mix?
Iv always been curious about that.
@@heythere6983 hi Paul that's no problem I'll make a recording of that mix and shoot it on just bought a 1976 Marshall Jmp 😀 so really good combination
Dear Zilla,
With all these comparisons, you sure don't make this easy.
I've made a list, and as it stands, I'll be ordering a 20 x 12" cabinet and a 18 x 10" cabinet.
hahaha, after fifteen years, I still don't know what my favourite is ;)
I have a question, can you pair a 75 Watt speaker with a 25 Watt one? And you could run a 100w amp? does the Watts of the Speakers matter on a 2x12?
I have a couple of Super Fat Lads with CB65 + V30 mix.
Toying with the idea of adding a Redback for more bottom.
Now, which do I mix it with? The CB or the 30 🤔
Where would you put the V30 and the H-75 in e vertical cab? Which one on top and which on bottom and why?
I put a v 30 in my blackstar studio 10 it was replacing a 70 80 and the more you turn it up the bigger the difference. I've never mixed the v 30 with anything. In older and have all 1 12 combos
Personally I would have done G12T-75 and Creamback together while I was at it.
Where does it stop though, and which creamback? We actually have about fifty speakers recorded against the V30 in this cab but we just didn't put them in the video, there's got to be an end.
@@ZillaCabs ok. May I suggest a G12T-75 shootout? Doesn’t have to be anything crazy, just with mixtures you might expect. Vintage 30, Creamback Classic and with Heritage, same either Greenback. Basically just ones you think people might like and decide to go with.
@@andrewwest7875 do we not have a T75 vs 21 other speakers? If not we should... I'm hoping to remake that series soon.
I like both. Interested to hear them all together in a stereo rig maybe. Also, do you know why speakers cabs always come in multiples of 2 speakers? Why not 3 speakers for example?
There were some great bass cabs that were 3x10” , however I forgot who made them because they were well out of my reach at the time. 🤣
I sincerely HATE T75 alone but it seems to be a super supplementary speaker
That H is something! Way better than the T imo. Very seriously thinking of getting one for my mesa v 2x12 cab!
Can you do a vid with H75 and the T75 in a 212?!
I have a 1968 Superlead clone, and neither of these combination works for me, especially V30/T75 combo…
Can you please make a video with m65 creamback vs alnico cream man?
That's coming soon, should be doing both of those speakers vs 21 other speakers... like our recent V30 and greenback videos.
Look for it-it’s done. They did the Alnico Cream with both an M65 and an H75 Creamback.
Very useful info thanks, would you recommend combining V30 with a G12H Anniversary 30?
Or G12H Anniversary with a G12M Greenback?
Victory makes a vertical 2x12 cab with that exact combination (H anniversary on top). I haven't heard, nor played through one, so can only 2nd hand quote the zzounds site "with they add a touch of classic"
@@natas3.14 Thanks Nathan will try to test them.
Vintage 30 with a 70th Anniversary is a classic mix. I
Prefer using a Heritage Series 55 Hz G12H 30 watts with a G12H-30 instead of a standard Greenback-In using that combo now in an Ampeg Reverberocket 212 combo because I find the Vintage 30 too bright for me.
Will be very happy to see a comparison of the Neo Creamback/V30 combo. I see that it is recommended on your website and I am thinking about ordering one, but I am not sure if that will work better for me compared to a G12H-75/V30 combo.
Have you tried mixing the t75 and h75?
It doesn't get done very often. It can sound really cool, but I think we'll be doing a video on it soon(ish).
@@ZillaCabs Thanks - I would be highly interested in this video. I'm thinking about putting 2 creambacks into an old marshall 1960a w/ "pinstripe" t75s. or some other speaker to give it a bit more mids.
I personally prefer a G12T-75 with a Neo Creamback.
Is the T75 uk Made or China?
Or is it a 1980's UK? ;)
Great videos! what about a 2x12 with a V30 and a G12M 65 Creamback together?
That's exactly what I have, and both speakers have lots of midrange. So it sounds thin. That's why I am here watching this. I need something to make my 2x12 sound more full.
Great video! I've found that the 16ohm V30s sound VERY different to the 8ohm V30s... Is there a reason for that!?
We've been having a big debate on this one..... it is largely down to the different number of windings on the voice coil (giving the speaker its nominal impedance), so it will act slightly different.... but I have the opinion that the output on an amp must have an input on this too, so it can be harder to tell which effects the sound the most. Also there can be slight differences between batches, exacerbated with age with the speakers. We are planning a detailed video on this one.
@@ZillaCabs I’ll look forward to this one!!
I hadn’t considered the outputs so that’s interesting too.
Thanks for replying 🤠
@@ZillaCabs That would really be an interesting video. Look forward to that!
T75+V30 has such rude and violent in your face sound it's impressive. Both speakers alone do not impressed, the T75 is very scooped and the V30 is very narrow (and nasal in some cabs, I have a laney 2*12 loaded with well broken in V30s which has no presence, just mids), but together they just deliver.
Cabinets are supposed to only come in black
We've got eleven types of black
i must test the celestion g12-65 agaist the ware house et65
If you oy close your eyes and listen to the entire video, Who would notice the subtle differences?
Who would care?
If you can't hear the difference there is no reason to care.