@@uwuDezzyuwu Complete nonsense, can't believe you'd make such a ridiculous suggestion that immediately ruins every single character. That's almost as bad as What if Goku and Kakarot were the same person, What if Gohan was the Great Saiyaman, or What if Dragon Ball Z wasn't the start of DB. Dragon Ball fans these days.
This is a great video, I didn't even consider things like Vegeta's Hakai Aura or Spirit Fission! That image of him utilizing cloning and gigantification looked really nice, where is it from?
The whole “Gammas are onpar with Moro arc Mui” all falls apart once you actually watch the movie, we see Ultimate Gohan beating Gamma 1 with minimal difficulty, mind you this Ultimate Gohan should be weaker than the one we saw in the Moro Arc as Piccolo had to force the form out of him due to rust. Gammas aren’t even Moro arc Vegeta level and Piccolo one shotting one of them really doesn’t mean much compared to the other 3 ontop of the fact that Vegeta hard counters him with forced spirit fission which makes him kind of dead weight in this fight.
The Fight goes like this Goku and Gohan Fight and Goku Keeps Gohan occupied Vegeta Fight's Piccolo and Orange Gets Mid Diffed Then Goku and Vegeta Jump Gohan and win The Fight more Than anything depends on if Vegeta can Defeat Piccolo fast enough so him and Goku can Jump Gohan
I said the exact opposite, in my opinion I don’t see Goku and vegeta teaming up on Gohan in character, and I think piccolo is strong enough to hold off vegeta until Gohan wins, we’ve seen that if Gohan is trying to win, the fight won’t last long against Goku, and since that would likely be there strategy I think Gohan and piccolo would win
They might if there backed into a corner but especially the if it’s a friendly fight, it seems unlikely to me, they wouldn’t even think of that until it was dire, and it’d likely be too late by then
my biggest issue with this is something I dont think anyone thought about. Piccolo specifically say's "Goku AND Vegeta". However this statement makes no sense. This woud imply they are rivaled in power, when this is simply not the case weather your talking about the Moro Arc or the Anime. Goku's UI put's his power leauges above Vegeta's.
I think we understand estimate how much intelligence impacts the battle, if we’re assuming it’s in character, piccolos fight would likely last longer than gohans, because he’d intentionally prolong it knowing Gohan is the powerhouse (I believe he’s strong enough to do that) once Gohan eventually defeats Goku they would double team, in character I believe they win even if power scaling wise it’s less likely, Goku and vegeta would never double team Gohan in character imo
Tbh i think piccolo could have a lot of utility in the fight and could help make the fight easier. His best option could would be stretchy arms which was able to hold back even cell max for a while. Him and gohan could jump vegeta and one shot him. Vegeta is not tanking much from gohan at all. That kick gohan did against cell max would knock him clean out. As for goku, as long as gohan gets 1 clean hit to leave goku vulnerable, piccolo can basically make MUI useless by retraining him. Remember, gohan can tank a lot more stuff than goku and vegeta and gohan's attacks causes significantly more battle damage. Goku needed a moment after gohan hit him once at full power, if gohan followed up, goku would've gotten knocked out. He only hit goku once to flex.
An actuak good vid from THE GOAT as expected. I really like the analysis here. I think Vegeta would take out Piccollo, Gohan might beat Goku then Vegeta just beats the tired out Gohan.
If you count that as a feat for SSB Vegeta ≈ Beast Gohan, then do you also believe Goten & Trunks ≈ SSJ Broly? Because right next to that panel is one of them fighting Broly. Not to mention you’re implying PSSB Vegeta > UI Goku
Moro Arc CHARACTERS, for sure. But the Gammas don't beat the top tiers, they're at best, UI/SSBE level. Piccolo directly compares the Gammas to Goku AND Vegeta, but Vegeta had absolutely nothing on MUI Goku. He did, however, compare to UI Goku to an extent.
@ Assuming Goku doesn’t dodge (because he does have UI), I think if Goku or Vegeta got hit with that ultimate attack Gamma 2 used to damage Cell Max (more than a kick from Beast Gohan), Goku and Vegeta could be defeated, even at that point. Other than that yeah Super Heros Goku and Vegeta win for sure
@ Eh. Depending on where you snatch your continuity, Toriyama's Word of God places Cell Max below Movie Broly. Moro 73 is already above Movie Broly, and he broke his hand on MUI Goku's chest.
Its both close and not. G&V will win 9/10 times but they will win by 10 points to 9. I'm not sure Gohan is the strongest. He had to boost to near-berserk status to beat Goku's UI. It's unlikely he can do that except in short bursts. Also if you are using manga you have to note Gohan only beat Cell Max's orb after Goten and Trunks interferred. And he survived the blasts from Cell because Gamma 1 helped. You cant use the manga then not use the manga. I've said before with Vegeta abilities synergize very well. Hakai shield pushes his opponent to hand to hand over energy, and Vegeta has historically shown long hand to hand exchanges favor him even against significant strength deficits (18 fight) when he has a skill advantage which he would against Gohan but likely not Piccolo. But hand to hand exchanges are also what activate Forced Spirit Fission which bleeds off enemy stamina and hes shown he can gift that energy to himself or to boost Goku who needs stamina for UI.
Regardless of anything, Gogeta wins. Being able to switch UI and UE as he pleases and needs. He might not even need UI or UE, honestly. Depends on whether you rate UI and UE being equivalent to a fusion or not. Of course, would Goku and Vegeta fuse when fighting Gohan and Piccolo? No. But the card's always there. And Forced Spirit Fission is such a massive Piccolo counter, it's not even funny. It's hard to rate *how* much weaker Piccolo would be without Nail and Kami, but given how their fusions are what gave him such a busted power level in Z to begin with, I can easily imagine it's at least enough to negate the growth Potential Unlocked and Orange gave him, potentially making him, even in Orange, only equivalent to his Buu Saga self. And that's if he can still use Orange.
As much as I kinds hate how Gohans scaled all the time[I haven't trained but I just got a potential unlock and now I'm competing for the strongest or I just barely trained for a bit and now everyone who's only ever trained is weaker than me like there's that one meme I've seen that sums up how I feel about it pretty well where Gohan just gets a bit mad and surpasses Goku even though Goku has been training for so long and so consistently and intensely] and how his new form even looks really, but on a point for him and Piccolo they definitely fight together better than Goku and Vegeta would, and I'm glad to learn how Piccolo scales tbh I kept hearing he was more so relative to SSG or SSB Goku or Vegeta more than anything.
@@cringekiller348 He had trouble reusing Ultimate, my dude. He may not be RoF Gohan, but the point remains. Also, reminder: Gohan's rage boost against Radditz back at the beginning of Z is a higher multiplier than SSJ3, and made him stronger than Goku and Piccolo combined. With not a day of training. At age 4.
I dont think its an easy win for either. If it were a part of the story, i think it would lead to gohan and piccolo winning. Its just more interesting that way, keeps the power more vague and influx. Oh and the win would be some cheesey trick piccolo and gohan pull off, or it would be them severly underestimating piccolo (hed likely start off in ultimate and save orange as a surprise)
I'm tired of people saying Piccolo isn't even close to Goku and Vegeta's power when BOTH TORIYAMA AND AKIO IYOKU STATED THAT THE WHOLE POINT OF SUPER HERO WAS TO GET PICCOLO ON GOKU (and co's) LEVEL AGAIN. So why would Toyotaro (who’s perfectly aware of what Toriyama stated) be like “pfft, fuck that” and only make him Blue tier?
After watching DBS: superhero i remember thinking "Gohan and Pikoro are probably are a bit stronger than blue, but i wouldn't like that they were as Strong as U.I and U.E" And then i think an HOUR after the movie i saw a fanart of O.P vs U.i Goku and i thought to myself: F*ck it!!! JUST AS STRONG BECAUSE THIS REMATCH WOULD BE FIREEEE!!!🔥🔥🔥💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽👊🏽👊🏽👊🏽🔥🔥🔥 So yeah, im not a great power scaler lol
Naw goku is still the strongest even raw power wise goku was testing to see what beast gohan could do when they fought in the manga plus vegeta is equal or slightly weaker than goku and ultra ego he just gonna get stronger as the battle goes on gohan mad strong but definitely 3rd out of them
@ gohan did not beat goku lol goku got back up and started winning then told gohan to spar with broly. Goku & Vegeta are equals, do you not pay attention?
@hellotoday7435It does matter. Goku was holding back while Gohan stated numerous times he was going all out and pushing his Beast mode to the max by "letting go". Even if Goku wasnt holding back (which he was, he made it clear he doesnt hold back in training in the same chapter, but it was said that it neither confirmed or denied he was going all out, lets say he was atleast going all out for the benefit of the doubt). The fact Gohan had to peak his ki to actually land a good hit on Goku, full power or not, that signifies relative power. Also the speech Goku gives saying "he can rest easy earth will be safe when hes gone", if someone had an inch of reading comprehension, Goku wouldnt need to drop this line if he was beaten, thats telling whats already shown, its narratively telling us that Gohan is nearing their level which is making Goku have high hopes for the future.
Honestly speaking, from my prespective, the gammas being on M.U.I. Goku from Moro Arc level doesn't make any sense at all... There have been multiple occasions where a character has been stated to be on the same level as another character. Such as Android 17 or even Ultimate Gonan himself, being Blue level. Which is false, because both 17 and Gohan were struggling against Base Toppo, who was roughly on the same level as Ssj Blue Vegeta, who's also equal to Ssj Blue Goku. That's why it's safer to assume that the gammas are Blue Goku and Vegeta level at best, even cause, with Gohan losing his fighting spirit over time, and training once in a while, there's no way his ultimate form would make him jump from below Ssj Blue Level, to U.I. Goku level(Heck in the manga, during the Moro Arc, a trained Ultimate Gohan couldn't even beat Sagambo with the help of the z fighters. And Sagambo was effortesly beaten by Ssj Blue Goku). And in that fight, we can actually see that the gammas were about as strong, if not a little below Ultimate Gohan when it comes to power. That's alao why I'd Say, Orange Piccolo, is Blue Evolution/U.I. Sign level at best, or somewhere in between.
It also said that cell max Almost as strong as Brody and Piccolo Almost died to cell max Which means he He is weaker then Brody Gohan In the manga were struggling against cell max Unlike the movie Who easily be him Which mean weaker than the movie And goku was hold him back He even said that he wouldn't even trying To fight Against his son He just wanted to test him And gohan literally use full power While trying to fight goku At first you can see goku had the the upper hand Then Gohan Decided to go all out And we're keeping up with him Goku was still holding his own And Even after Gohan Sent him flying mul But he He wasn't knock out It's up he got back up and transformed back We're still keeping up with full power beast Gohan And Okay people Because I'm sick of people saying it. The reason why He gave the fight Brody Not because he knew he would lose it because he want Brody To fight because he saw Brody want to fight Gohan while he was fighting Gohan he looked at Brody and still keeping up with Gohan at the same time with ease which means goku was holding back against Gohan as he said wasn't trying to win and he got back up he pushed him and send him flying just like Gohan did to him ok he not knock him out of beast but he send him flying just like Gohan which he was use more of his power to fight Gohan so yeah goku is stronger than Gohan
I mean a small scaling for piccolo would be Beast Gohan tanks a hit from cell max easily implying that cell max can’t even damage Gohan,piccolo is weaker than cell max so piccolo>Cell max>piccolo Goku is relative to said Gohan and same with Vegeta so if that’s the case Goku≈Gohan≈Vegeta>>Piccolo,I don’t think piccolo is gonna be able to damage them,what I do think he’ll be able to do is stall them,we’ve seen orange piccolo be able to stall people who are obviously stronger than him so it’s not too much of a stretch to say that.
Also the plan of Piccolo stalling one of them and Gohan finishing off the other one just wouldn’t work Gohan and Goku are relative and Vegeta is relative to said Goku so whoever wins out of those two is gonna be injured heavily,now I personally have Vegeta and Goku above Gohan due to his lack of experience but let’s say Gohan beats the one he’s fighting,due to piccolo being massively weaker than one of them,he’s not gonna be able to do much damage,so it’ll be a heavily injured Gohan who’s probably 1-2 good attacks away from losing,a piccolo who isn’t strong enough to do good damage and is probably damaged due to stalling vs a practically fresh Goku or Vegeta,all they would have to do is target Gohan,land the remaining hits required to take him down,then beat piccolo
Further info: Toriyama indirectly states that Movie Broly is stronger than Cell Max. DBS: Broly is canon to the manga (as per the recap) and Goku states that Moro 73 is tougher than every opponent he's faced in the past, including Movie Broly. Moro 73 broke his arm from punching that same Goku. Piccolo gets low diffed.
Black frieza pretty much mops the floor with them i mean frieza already one shotted bith of them and goku and vegeta didn't do intense training and definitely not enough to put them from getting one shotted to battling black frieza.
I think gohan would slam pretty badly. If he let go and just decided to let his anger go full blast, it would just be over before they could do anything. Now in reality he won't fo that against them because its them , but in theory tho i think its really bad.
Ok wth first he doesn't have anger why eould he be angry?you think he is like broly who gets angry out of nowhere sometimes?secondly this is a friendly battle and ut was said multiple times in the video so gohan wouldn't do that?
He already literally does this against Goku in the Manga to peak his Beast form power, and Goku gets up from this with visibly no pushback, he went back to the fight right away, so no, he wouldnt slam.
@@ztiporamanI literally made the distinction between all and the reality of this scenario in the video. Secondly he literally does have anger, he holds it back. When he knocks it out of UI he stated he was bringing himself to the point before he snapped.
Gohan is not stronger than Goku or Vegeta. Goku very explicitly noted he was just testing Gohan out, and dealt with him even with lowered focus when he wanted to see Broly fight. Vegeta even pointed this out and fought on par with Beast Gohan with just Blue Evolved. Add Ultra Ego and it'd be a bad beating. Piccolo is really not in the conversation even trying to put Gohan above because Piccolo is a LOT weaker than him. The Cell Max fight is proof enough since the beast couldn't even make Gohan flinch compared to Goku slapping away a much stronger Gohan with one hand.
yeah um salad, hate to break it to you, but goku is the stronger one in the manga, not gohan, in the fight goku confirmed he wasn't even trying to win against gohan, he just wanted to test him
in my opinion i think goku and vegeta would win as well but with high-extreme difficulty mainly because if you think about it and vegeta thinks he's taking to much damage he could use his hakai's to essentially make himself invulnerable to any ki based attack unless someone like gohan did a full power special beam canon on vegeta he's basically forcing them to melee combat with him and with this too since piccolo is the weakest of the four he could use the hakai aura to make it even harder for piccolo to hold him off since basically that would make piccolo's ki arsenal useless unless you could argue his special beam canon could possibly get through
Piccolo is getting mopped if they dont play around. Then its a 2v1. And that cell max fight your giving him credit for max only had one arm. Two arm cell washes easily.
Vegeta just uses a hakai on piccolo and then piccolo loses because the only way that piccolo can surppass the destruction energy is by being very noticeably stronger than vegeta which i doubt that and Goku only quote on quote lost to Gohan because he was not actually trying to actively fight Gohan because he was just testing Gohan to see if he was fit to protect the earth from future threats how can i prove this you may ask it's because when Gohan was going to land another attack Goku finished the fight by pushing Gohan and he told Gohan "okay that is enough" so if Goku actually tried to beat Gohan he would have done it in the same chapter that the fight even happened and also even if the fight is a friendly fight Vegeta could still hakai Gohan and Piccolo only to the extent where they would get severely injured just like how Goku did not get immediately erased by the hakai that Frieza used on Goku keep in mind that hakai was made by one of the weakest gods of destructions known as Sidra of universe 9 and another thing Vegeta could just defuse Piccolo from kami and nail for a while and after the fight stops Piccolo can just fuse with Kami and Nail again.
8:08 Nope. Piccolo compares the Gammas to Goku AND Vegeta, and Vegeta is nowhere close to Moro Arc MUI. The Gammas are Blue level at best while Orange Piccolo taps into Moro Arc UI and SSBE levels (as Blue was the only time when Goku and Vegeta were actually close in power.) Word of God from Toriyama places Cell Max below Broly during his movie, which in turn places Cell Max below Moro 73, who is said to be tougher than anyone Goku had fought in the past, which includes Broly. Said Moro 73 broke his hand from punching Goku. Take that as you will. Also note that Rusty Ultimate Gohan was slightly stronger than Gamma 1. This would mean placing said Gohan on par with Moro Arc MUI, which is ABSURD. All in all? Orange Piccolo wank.
Good video but i would like to clear out some things 1 about the gamma's statements youve got to remember that not only did piccolo and gohan didn't see goku and vegeta after the moro arc but also they can't sense godki so they basically need to rely on their ki pressure that they felt a long time ago 2 when gohan said the statement about goku and vegeta he specifically said goku or vegeta not goku and vegeta 3 ok broly is stated to be above cell max and cell max just being stronger than piccolo so broly>cell max>piccolo now granolah wished to be the strongest being in the universe so hes stronger than current broly since broly didn't train much he just trained to control his power not increase it and since vegeta and goku surpassed granolah it should be something like this goku and vegeta>granolah>broly>cell max>piccolo so yeah piccolo is weaker than them and not by a small amount So yeah that's all and in my opinion vegeta and goku take this from mid to high diff but great video man you should do more of those
Tbh, I think G&V take it High-Extreme Diff. Goku fought Gohan in the manga shortly, all we know is that Gohan was going all out, pushing away the narratively obvious statements Goku gives before and after fighting Gohan that support he is stronger than Gohan, the fight itself is relatively equal until Gohan peaks his power by losing control for a moment. This either means Goku is relative or atleast a little stronger than a normal FP Beast Gohan, but in that peaked state, Gohan is stronger. Obviously, Gohan cant maintain that overflowed state in Beast, he says it and also makes it clear that its temeporarily a boost in his chi. ---- For Vegeta, he definetly edges this fight out, assuming MUI = UE or atleast UE is a little less stronger, Vegeta would definetly be able to tank all the hits that Gohan and Piccolo deal to him, which would push him to the edge in terms of overall power, and probably tipping the battle to G&V's side even more than it was initially.
Goku and Vegeta . Cell max couldn’t even hurt Beast gohan is scaling for piccolo. Gohan beast greater than cell max greater than piccolo. Goku is able to keep up with gohan beast. Vegeta should be relative to goku or weaker. So Goku and Gohan fight each becuase goku want to test his son and Vegeta fights Piccolo. Vegeta defeat Piccolo with mid difficulty don’t think Vegeta would have hard time against piccolo. And goku verse Gohan. Gohan is strongest individual but I got to go with Goku and Vegeta have better bow and don’t know Vegeta ultra ego and have balance experience
I mean in the manga we have see Gohan who is the stronger by a fair bit between him and piccolo. I do not think you can argue that Gohan in a fight is stronger then Goku. Vegeta is pretty much on par with Goku so Vegeta is taking the win against piccolo. Plus Vegeta will certainly use haikais against him because Vegeta is totally aware that piccolo would survive it without long term injury. I mean its piccolo Vegeta knows he can take his arms off and he will be fine. I think goku and vegeta certainly win 10 out of 10 times but in at least 2 of those times they are absolutely drained and one of them is knocked out
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All Piccolo has to do is throw Pan into a Ki Blast shot by Goku or Vegeta, that way Piccolo and Gohan win as soon as Gohan starts tweaking from that.
I really don't think Goku as silly as he is is going to even attempt a ki blast if pan was in the area 💀
Goku would not hurt his granddaughter
i think goku and vegeta are the least of piccolo's problems if he pulls some shit like that
Judging from the previous power boost Gohan got, zeno might be in trouble
111 👍
He finally remembered his yt password
he uses his what if channel “salad saiyan” more
@Lineproof ik that I'm talking about this channel
@@Lineproof What if Salad Saiyan and Salad Bar were the same person (Part 1)
Is it Salad123?
@@uwuDezzyuwu Complete nonsense, can't believe you'd make such a ridiculous suggestion that immediately ruins every single character. That's almost as bad as What if Goku and Kakarot were the same person, What if Gohan was the Great Saiyaman, or What if Dragon Ball Z wasn't the start of DB. Dragon Ball fans these days.
This is a great video, I didn't even consider things like Vegeta's Hakai Aura or Spirit Fission! That image of him utilizing cloning and gigantification looked really nice, where is it from?
It’s from V-Jump, occasionally they’ll show extra gag panels like that outside of new chapters
It’s from V-Jump, occasionally they’ll show extra gag panels like that outside of new chapters
It’s from V-Jump, occasionally they’ll show extra gag panels like that outside of new chapters
It’s from V-Jump, occasionally they’ll show extra gag panels like that outside of new chapters
Thank you for all that about Piccolo. I always hated how people treated him like he's some useless fodder that's somehow only Blue level
With how good Piccolo and Gohan are at working together, I feel like that alone geniunely can make it a 50/50
one day salad saiyan will play yakuza and powerscale kiryu.
thank you for using yakuza ost, very cool.
Great to see you back
Lol the amount of gohan and piccolo glaze is crazy
W upload unc 🙏🙏
Don't think Vegeta learned every yardrat technique. He skipped straight to force spirit fission. He could barely use instant transmission
Based on those V-Jump panels he probably has tried the other techniques before and just isn’t well-versed in them. Not fully out of the question
First of all nice that you got back your password, second of all i fully agree with your analysis.
Goes hard
Classic Dragon ball fans not reading their own series, the poll shouldn't have been almost 20/80.
The whole “Gammas are onpar with Moro arc Mui” all falls apart once you actually watch the movie, we see Ultimate Gohan beating Gamma 1 with minimal difficulty, mind you this Ultimate Gohan should be weaker than the one we saw in the Moro Arc as Piccolo had to force the form out of him due to rust. Gammas aren’t even Moro arc Vegeta level and Piccolo one shotting one of them really doesn’t mean much compared to the other 3 ontop of the fact that Vegeta hard counters him with forced spirit fission which makes him kind of dead weight in this fight.
@@c3rtin3se This is based on the manga Cell Max arc
@ the things i listed happened in the manga
@@c3rtin3se Oh my bad man I forgor
Forced spirit fission doesn't mean shit
Also Gammas were ssb level.
The Fight goes like this
Goku and Gohan Fight and Goku Keeps Gohan occupied
Vegeta Fight's Piccolo and Orange Gets Mid Diffed
Then Goku and Vegeta Jump Gohan and win
The Fight more Than anything depends on if Vegeta can Defeat Piccolo fast enough so him and Goku can Jump Gohan
Part 3 is actually where Piccolo says, "Gohan, now!" And they gank Vegeta while Goku is caught being reactive.
I said the exact opposite, in my opinion I don’t see Goku and vegeta teaming up on Gohan in character, and I think piccolo is strong enough to hold off vegeta until Gohan wins, we’ve seen that if Gohan is trying to win, the fight won’t last long against Goku, and since that would likely be there strategy I think Gohan and piccolo would win
They might if there backed into a corner but especially the if it’s a friendly fight, it seems unlikely to me, they wouldn’t even think of that until it was dire, and it’d likely be too late by then
my biggest issue with this is something I dont think anyone thought about. Piccolo specifically say's "Goku AND Vegeta".
However this statement makes no sense. This woud imply they are rivaled in power, when this is simply not the case weather your talking about the Moro Arc or the Anime. Goku's UI put's his power leauges above Vegeta's.
The rage bait is real.
Awesome breakdown ❤
I wanna see Broly and Gohan fuse into Brohan someday
I think we understand estimate how much intelligence impacts the battle, if we’re assuming it’s in character, piccolos fight would likely last longer than gohans, because he’d intentionally prolong it knowing Gohan is the powerhouse (I believe he’s strong enough to do that) once Gohan eventually defeats Goku they would double team, in character I believe they win even if power scaling wise it’s less likely, Goku and vegeta would never double team Gohan in character imo
Tbh i think piccolo could have a lot of utility in the fight and could help make the fight easier. His best option could would be stretchy arms which was able to hold back even cell max for a while. Him and gohan could jump vegeta and one shot him. Vegeta is not tanking much from gohan at all. That kick gohan did against cell max would knock him clean out. As for goku, as long as gohan gets 1 clean hit to leave goku vulnerable, piccolo can basically make MUI useless by retraining him. Remember, gohan can tank a lot more stuff than goku and vegeta and gohan's attacks causes significantly more battle damage. Goku needed a moment after gohan hit him once at full power, if gohan followed up, goku would've gotten knocked out. He only hit goku once to flex.
Welcome back 😊
An actuak good vid from THE GOAT as expected. I really like the analysis here. I think Vegeta would take out Piccollo, Gohan might beat Goku then Vegeta just beats the tired out Gohan.
Vegeta in Blue was sparring with the same Beast Gohan that fought MUI Goku. It's an uncontested feat
If you count that as a feat for SSB Vegeta ≈ Beast Gohan, then do you also believe Goten & Trunks ≈ SSJ Broly? Because right next to that panel is one of them fighting Broly. Not to mention you’re implying PSSB Vegeta > UI Goku
I’ve been trying to show people the Gammas can beat Moro arc characters for years, YEARS!
Moro Arc CHARACTERS, for sure. But the Gammas don't beat the top tiers, they're at best, UI/SSBE level.
Piccolo directly compares the Gammas to Goku AND Vegeta, but Vegeta had absolutely nothing on MUI Goku. He did, however, compare to UI Goku to an extent.
@ Assuming Goku doesn’t dodge (because he does have UI), I think if Goku or Vegeta got hit with that ultimate attack Gamma 2 used to damage Cell Max (more than a kick from Beast Gohan), Goku and Vegeta could be defeated, even at that point. Other than that yeah Super Heros Goku and Vegeta win for sure
@ Eh.
Depending on where you snatch your continuity, Toriyama's Word of God places Cell Max below Movie Broly. Moro 73 is already above Movie Broly, and he broke his hand on MUI Goku's chest.
We're all hyped for the 10th anniversary!
Its both close and not. G&V will win 9/10 times but they will win by 10 points to 9.
I'm not sure Gohan is the strongest. He had to boost to near-berserk status to beat Goku's UI. It's unlikely he can do that except in short bursts. Also if you are using manga you have to note Gohan only beat Cell Max's orb after Goten and Trunks interferred. And he survived the blasts from Cell because Gamma 1 helped. You cant use the manga then not use the manga.
I've said before with Vegeta abilities synergize very well. Hakai shield pushes his opponent to hand to hand over energy, and Vegeta has historically shown long hand to hand exchanges favor him even against significant strength deficits (18 fight) when he has a skill advantage which he would against Gohan but likely not Piccolo. But hand to hand exchanges are also what activate Forced Spirit Fission which bleeds off enemy stamina and hes shown he can gift that energy to himself or to boost Goku who needs stamina for UI.
Thank you for not making the thumbnail WHY THIS AND THIS ISNT EVEN CLOSE!!!?!?!!
Regardless of anything, Gogeta wins. Being able to switch UI and UE as he pleases and needs. He might not even need UI or UE, honestly. Depends on whether you rate UI and UE being equivalent to a fusion or not.
Of course, would Goku and Vegeta fuse when fighting Gohan and Piccolo? No.
But the card's always there.
And Forced Spirit Fission is such a massive Piccolo counter, it's not even funny. It's hard to rate *how* much weaker Piccolo would be without Nail and Kami, but given how their fusions are what gave him such a busted power level in Z to begin with, I can easily imagine it's at least enough to negate the growth Potential Unlocked and Orange gave him, potentially making him, even in Orange, only equivalent to his Buu Saga self. And that's if he can still use Orange.
Ultra Ego Vegeta absolutely shits on them.
Beast gohan > Mui goku = ultra ego vegeta > orange piccolo
Do you think Vegeta uses his spirit control techniques to make himself a little bit taller
10:58 it has two functions one is defuse and the second is done more damage to fusions.
As much as I kinds hate how Gohans scaled all the time[I haven't trained but I just got a potential unlock and now I'm competing for the strongest or I just barely trained for a bit and now everyone who's only ever trained is weaker than me like there's that one meme I've seen that sums up how I feel about it pretty well where Gohan just gets a bit mad and surpasses Goku even though Goku has been training for so long and so consistently and intensely] and how his new form even looks really, but on a point for him and Piccolo they definitely fight together better than Goku and Vegeta would, and I'm glad to learn how Piccolo scales tbh I kept hearing he was more so relative to SSG or SSB Goku or Vegeta more than anything.
He was literally training throughout Moro and granolah saga. Seriously Goku glazers have never read the manga
@@cringekiller348 He had trouble reusing Ultimate, my dude. He may not be RoF Gohan, but the point remains.
Also, reminder: Gohan's rage boost against Radditz back at the beginning of Z is a higher multiplier than SSJ3, and made him stronger than Goku and Piccolo combined. With not a day of training. At age 4.
@@cringekiller348it’s not glazing if anything it’s knowledging gohans power ups are bs at least in my opinion
I dont think its an easy win for either. If it were a part of the story, i think it would lead to gohan and piccolo winning. Its just more interesting that way, keeps the power more vague and influx.
Oh and the win would be some cheesey trick piccolo and gohan pull off, or it would be them severly underestimating piccolo (hed likely start off in ultimate and save orange as a surprise)
I've got Piccolo & Gohan in sparring, Goku & Vegeta in a death match
I'm tired of people saying Piccolo isn't even close to Goku and Vegeta's power when BOTH TORIYAMA AND AKIO IYOKU STATED THAT THE WHOLE POINT OF SUPER HERO WAS TO GET PICCOLO ON GOKU (and co's) LEVEL AGAIN.
So why would Toyotaro (who’s perfectly aware of what Toriyama stated) be like “pfft, fuck that” and only make him Blue tier?
After watching DBS: superhero i remember thinking "Gohan and Pikoro are probably are a bit stronger than blue, but i wouldn't like that they were as Strong as U.I and U.E"
And then i think an HOUR after the movie i saw a fanart of O.P vs U.i Goku and i thought to myself:
F*ck it!!! JUST AS STRONG BECAUSE THIS REMATCH WOULD BE FIREEEE!!!🔥🔥🔥💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽👊🏽👊🏽👊🏽🔥🔥🔥
So yeah, im not a great power scaler lol
Naw goku is still the strongest even raw power wise goku was testing to see what beast gohan could do when they fought in the manga plus vegeta is equal or slightly weaker than goku and ultra ego he just gonna get stronger as the battle goes on gohan mad strong but definitely 3rd out of them
gohon was an ass pull and if it is close it's not a good thing
Gohan beats Goku, Vegeta beats Piccolo and Gohan beats Vegeta high diff
Gohan not beating any one of them
@ Gohan beat Goku lol. Even if Goku was holding back, Vegeta is weaker than Goku. Gohan knocks Vegeta out of Ultra Ego and knocks him out.
@ gohan did not beat goku lol goku got back up and started winning then told gohan to spar with broly. Goku & Vegeta are equals, do you not pay attention?
@hellotoday7435It does matter. Goku was holding back while Gohan stated numerous times he was going all out and pushing his Beast mode to the max by "letting go".
Even if Goku wasnt holding back (which he was, he made it clear he doesnt hold back in training in the same chapter, but it was said that it neither confirmed or denied he was going all out, lets say he was atleast going all out for the benefit of the doubt).
The fact Gohan had to peak his ki to actually land a good hit on Goku, full power or not, that signifies relative power.
Also the speech Goku gives saying "he can rest easy earth will be safe when hes gone", if someone had an inch of reading comprehension, Goku wouldnt need to drop this line if he was beaten, thats telling whats already shown, its narratively telling us that Gohan is nearing their level which is making Goku have high hopes for the future.
@ facts
Honestly speaking, from my prespective, the gammas being on M.U.I. Goku from Moro Arc level doesn't make any sense at all... There have been multiple occasions where a character has been stated to be on the same level as another character. Such as Android 17 or even Ultimate Gonan himself, being Blue level. Which is false, because both 17 and Gohan were struggling against Base Toppo, who was roughly on the same level as Ssj Blue Vegeta, who's also equal to Ssj Blue Goku. That's why it's safer to assume that the gammas are Blue Goku and Vegeta level at best, even cause, with Gohan losing his fighting spirit over time, and training once in a while, there's no way his ultimate form would make him jump from below Ssj Blue Level, to U.I. Goku level(Heck in the manga, during the Moro Arc, a trained Ultimate Gohan couldn't even beat Sagambo with the help of the z fighters. And Sagambo was effortesly beaten by Ssj Blue Goku). And in that fight, we can actually see that the gammas were about as strong, if not a little below Ultimate Gohan when it comes to power. That's alao why I'd Say, Orange Piccolo, is Blue Evolution/U.I. Sign level at best, or somewhere in between.
It also said that cell max Almost as strong as Brody and Piccolo
Almost died to cell max Which means he He is weaker then Brody Gohan In the manga were struggling against cell max Unlike
the movie Who easily be him Which mean weaker than the movie And goku was hold him back He even said that he wouldn't even trying To fight Against his son He just wanted to test him And gohan literally use full power While trying to fight goku At first you can see goku had the the upper hand Then Gohan Decided to go all out And we're keeping up with him Goku was still holding his own And Even after Gohan Sent him flying mul But he He wasn't knock out It's up he got back up and transformed back We're still keeping up with full power beast Gohan And
Okay people Because I'm sick of people saying it. The reason why He gave the fight Brody Not because he knew he would lose it because he want Brody To fight because he saw Brody want to fight Gohan while he was fighting Gohan he looked at Brody and still keeping up with Gohan at the same time with ease which means goku was holding back against Gohan as he said wasn't trying to win and he got back up he pushed him and send him flying just like Gohan did to him ok he not knock him out of beast but he send him flying just like Gohan which he was use more of his power to fight Gohan so yeah goku is stronger than Gohan
I mean a small scaling for piccolo would be
Beast Gohan tanks a hit from cell max easily implying that cell max can’t even damage Gohan,piccolo is weaker than cell max so piccolo>Cell max>piccolo
Goku is relative to said Gohan and same with Vegeta so if that’s the case
Goku≈Gohan≈Vegeta>>Piccolo,I don’t think piccolo is gonna be able to damage them,what I do think he’ll be able to do is stall them,we’ve seen orange piccolo be able to stall people who are obviously stronger than him so it’s not too much of a stretch to say that.
Also the plan of Piccolo stalling one of them and Gohan finishing off the other one just wouldn’t work
Gohan and Goku are relative and Vegeta is relative to said Goku so whoever wins out of those two is gonna be injured heavily,now I personally have Vegeta and Goku above Gohan due to his lack of experience but let’s say Gohan beats the one he’s fighting,due to piccolo being massively weaker than one of them,he’s not gonna be able to do much damage,so it’ll be a heavily injured Gohan who’s probably 1-2 good attacks away from losing,a piccolo who isn’t strong enough to do good damage and is probably damaged due to stalling vs a practically fresh Goku or Vegeta,all they would have to do is target Gohan,land the remaining hits required to take him down,then beat piccolo
Further info: Toriyama indirectly states that Movie Broly is stronger than Cell Max. DBS: Broly is canon to the manga (as per the recap) and Goku states that Moro 73 is tougher than every opponent he's faced in the past, including Movie Broly.
Moro 73 broke his arm from punching that same Goku. Piccolo gets low diffed.
@ my goat
Do Current Goku and Gohan vs Black Frieza!
Black frieza pretty much mops the floor with them i mean frieza already one shotted bith of them and goku and vegeta didn't do intense training and definitely not enough to put them from getting one shotted to battling black frieza.
I think gohan would slam pretty badly. If he let go and just decided to let his anger go full blast, it would just be over before they could do anything. Now in reality he won't fo that against them because its them , but in theory tho i think its really bad.
???????
Ok wth first he doesn't have anger why eould he be angry?you think he is like broly who gets angry out of nowhere sometimes?secondly this is a friendly battle and ut was said multiple times in the video so gohan wouldn't do that?
He already literally does this against Goku in the Manga to peak his Beast form power, and Goku gets up from this with visibly no pushback, he went back to the fight right away, so no, he wouldnt slam.
@@ztiporamanI literally made the distinction between all and the reality of this scenario in the video.
Secondly he literally does have anger, he holds it back. When he knocks it out of UI he stated he was bringing himself to the point before he snapped.
@@Chris_HT The peak was without him snapping. Its the most he can do without getting mad.
Gohan is not stronger than Goku or Vegeta. Goku very explicitly noted he was just testing Gohan out, and dealt with him even with lowered focus when he wanted to see Broly fight. Vegeta even pointed this out and fought on par with Beast Gohan with just Blue Evolved. Add Ultra Ego and it'd be a bad beating.
Piccolo is really not in the conversation even trying to put Gohan above because Piccolo is a LOT weaker than him. The Cell Max fight is proof enough since the beast couldn't even make Gohan flinch compared to Goku slapping away a much stronger Gohan with one hand.
Don’t forget after fighting beast Goku felt base piccolo power and wanted to fight him
I like adding the 10th anniversary character
yeah um salad, hate to break it to you, but goku is the stronger one in the manga, not gohan, in the fight goku confirmed he wasn't even trying to win against gohan, he just wanted to test him
This is not close Vegete went ONLY blue against BEAST Gohan. Not even Blue evolved.
It IS close, Gohan fought MUI Goku.
So based off that, your stating
SSJB Vagata = UI Goku… Yeah good one
Also only way I see vegeta beating piccolo is force fission but I doubt he would use that
now all of them should fuse and see if they can fight ssj4 cabba
in my opinion i think goku and vegeta would win as well but with high-extreme difficulty
mainly because if you think about it and vegeta thinks he's taking to much damage he could use his hakai's to essentially make himself invulnerable to any ki based attack unless someone like gohan did a full power special beam canon on vegeta he's basically forcing them to melee combat with him and with this too since piccolo is the weakest of the four he could use the hakai aura to make it even harder for piccolo to hold him off since basically that would make piccolo's ki arsenal useless unless you could argue his special beam canon could possibly get through
hi
Weclome back
Man wdym Ultra Ego is a double edged sword
Piccolo can only do something in the fight if he stops aura farming for once. WE SEE THE FIT BRO
💪💪💪
Piccolo is getting mopped if they dont play around. Then its a 2v1. And that cell max fight your giving him credit for max only had one arm. Two arm cell washes easily.
Vegeta just uses a hakai on piccolo and then piccolo loses because the only way that piccolo can surppass the destruction energy is by being very noticeably stronger than vegeta which i doubt that and Goku only quote on quote lost to Gohan because he was not actually trying to actively fight Gohan because he was just testing Gohan to see if he was fit to protect the earth from future threats how can i prove this you may ask it's because when Gohan was going to land another attack Goku finished the fight by pushing Gohan and he told Gohan "okay that is enough" so if Goku actually tried to beat Gohan he would have done it in the same chapter that the fight even happened and also even if the fight is a friendly fight Vegeta could still hakai Gohan and Piccolo only to the extent where they would get severely injured just like how Goku did not get immediately erased by the hakai that Frieza used on Goku keep in mind that hakai was made by one of the weakest gods of destructions known as Sidra of universe 9 and another thing Vegeta could just defuse Piccolo from kami and nail for a while and after the fight stops Piccolo can just fuse with Kami and Nail again.
Respect for piccolo
8:08 Nope. Piccolo compares the Gammas to Goku AND Vegeta, and Vegeta is nowhere close to Moro Arc MUI. The Gammas are Blue level at best while Orange Piccolo taps into Moro Arc UI and SSBE levels (as Blue was the only time when Goku and Vegeta were actually close in power.)
Word of God from Toriyama places Cell Max below Broly during his movie, which in turn places Cell Max below Moro 73, who is said to be tougher than anyone Goku had fought in the past, which includes Broly.
Said Moro 73 broke his hand from punching Goku. Take that as you will.
Also note that Rusty Ultimate Gohan was slightly stronger than Gamma 1. This would mean placing said Gohan on par with Moro Arc MUI, which is ABSURD.
All in all? Orange Piccolo wank.
Good video but i would like to clear out some things
1 about the gamma's statements youve got to remember that not only did piccolo and gohan didn't see goku and vegeta after the moro arc but also they can't sense godki so they basically need to rely on their ki pressure that they felt a long time ago
2 when gohan said the statement about goku and vegeta he specifically said goku or vegeta not goku and vegeta
3 ok broly is stated to be above cell max and cell max just being stronger than piccolo so broly>cell max>piccolo now granolah wished to be the strongest being in the universe so hes stronger than current broly since broly didn't train much he just trained to control his power not increase it and since vegeta and goku surpassed granolah it should be something like this goku and vegeta>granolah>broly>cell max>piccolo so yeah piccolo is weaker than them and not by a small amount
So yeah that's all and in my opinion vegeta and goku take this from mid to high diff but great video man you should do more of those
Tbh, I think G&V take it High-Extreme Diff.
Goku fought Gohan in the manga shortly, all we know is that Gohan was going all out, pushing away the narratively obvious statements Goku gives before and after fighting Gohan that support he is stronger than Gohan, the fight itself is relatively equal until Gohan peaks his power by losing control for a moment.
This either means Goku is relative or atleast a little stronger than a normal FP Beast Gohan, but in that peaked state, Gohan is stronger.
Obviously, Gohan cant maintain that overflowed state in Beast, he says it and also makes it clear that its temeporarily a boost in his chi.
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For Vegeta, he definetly edges this fight out, assuming MUI = UE or atleast UE is a little less stronger, Vegeta would definetly be able to tank all the hits that Gohan and Piccolo deal to him, which would push him to the edge in terms of overall power, and probably tipping the battle to G&V's side even more than it was initially.
Goku and Vegeta . Cell max couldn’t even hurt Beast gohan is scaling for piccolo. Gohan beast greater than cell max greater than piccolo. Goku is able to keep up with gohan beast. Vegeta should be relative to goku or weaker. So Goku and Gohan fight each becuase goku want to test his son and Vegeta fights Piccolo. Vegeta defeat Piccolo with mid difficulty don’t think Vegeta would have hard time against piccolo. And goku verse Gohan. Gohan is strongest individual but I got to go with Goku and Vegeta have better bow and don’t know Vegeta ultra ego and have balance experience
Vegeta is the strongest, not Gohan 💀
Gohan Fans are coping. He's at best Ui Omen or SSBE level.
bait
Yeah its close but Goku & Vegeta still the strongest
Piccolo sadly doesn't even factor in, he is so far below he other 3 it's not even funny. I wish his power up did more than feed Gohan a new form.
goku and vegeta no diff and if they fuse neg diff
I think H wins
I mean in the manga we have see Gohan who is the stronger by a fair bit between him and piccolo.
I do not think you can argue that Gohan in a fight is stronger then Goku.
Vegeta is pretty much on par with Goku so Vegeta is taking the win against piccolo. Plus Vegeta will certainly use haikais against him because Vegeta is totally aware that piccolo would survive it without long term injury.
I mean its piccolo Vegeta knows he can take his arms off and he will be fine. I think goku and vegeta certainly win 10 out of 10 times but in at least 2 of those times they are absolutely drained and one of them is knocked out
Gohan was training throughout the Moro and granolah saga. He didn't get the form out of nowhere
Not to under sell?? Goku MASTERED ULTRA INSTINCT HE IS THE SKILL
Ragebait