Rom-Com Heroines Explained: Why Their Romantic (Yet Unrealistic) Stories Ruled The 90s
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
- She’s smart, beautiful, just Hollywood enough to feel aspirational but also just regular enough to feel relatable: she’s the 90s rom-com heroine! Meg Ryan and Julia Roberts ruled the decade - from Sleepless in Seattle to Pretty Woman to You've Got Mail to My Best Friend's Wedding and beyond - but there were a whole host of iconic heroines that popped up during the rom-com boom of the 1990s. So today, let's unpack what made the 90s rom-com heroine special, where the archetype came from, and how they might have given us some pretty unrealistic expectations about life and love (and why we love them anyways!)
Join our Patreon to unlock the members-only series “Total Take," vote on what we cover next, and more: / thetake
Read articles on film, TV and culture: www.the-take.com
Follow our socials: linktr.ee/thisisthetake
CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro
01:19 The birth of rom-com heroines (that paved the way for the 90s)
03:22 What made the 90s heroines so relatable
04:22 How Nora Ephron (& Meg Ryan) changed how people saw rom-coms
07:36 Julia Roberts' relatable yet aspirational heroines
10:07 What this era's rom-coms missed
12:37 Why 90s rom-com heroines continue to be beloved
The Take was created by Debra Minoff & Susannah McCullough
This video was produced & narrated by Jessica Babineaux, written by Cassondra Feltus, and edited by Daniel Wolff 
Кино
For an analysis of a much darker romance-related trope, check out our recent video unpacking the Love Bomber Trope on screen: ruclips.net/video/086XBiXqt1s/видео.html
This going to be posted on Spotify?
great vid but please stop the background music.
How can we write to you with suggestions of topics we'd like to see you make into a video analysis? :)
That was Nia long not Regina Hall.
The reason why 90s rom-com heroines were popular was because the decade, despite its issues, was filled with optimism something we lack nowadays with the pandemic, racial injustice, social divide, etc. Who cares if they were unrealistic?
SOOOOOOO true! I was in my 20's in the 90's and had a career, a (shared) apartment, and friends. I met my husband in '95. It was a decade of HUGE optimism, at least in the west
That's awesome.
Wow, that’s really true. Optimism, the one thing you have as a child trying to find yourself in the world. The feeling of knowing nothing but yet feeling confident that you will know and experience everything. This kinda made me sad but I know it’s the truth. Well said. I really hope the younger generation keep that optimism going through their adult years
Secondly if you gender flip the heroines(I guess it is a little overly cerebral though) then all this time these were just rehashs of the careerist romcom story(you know basically when the workaholic guy meets his MPDG) and truthfully how has a generational gap with gender, not been a part of the story narrative?
and tbh i don't even understand still why they are considered unrealistic. When harry met sally is definitely very realistic story 💁♀😀
The amount of Meg Ryan clips in just the intro show that she really is the rom com it girl
Julia Roberts too!
Sandra Bullock, Julia Roberts, and Meg Ryan were the holy trinity of rom-com leading ladies in the 1990s!
@@beethovensfidelio I'm surprised at how few Sandra Bullock clips were in this video!
The wish fulfillment of 90s rom coms was STRONG.
Indeed, which is why I can’t throw stones at male wish fulfillment movies because women like myself aren’t any better.
@@beethovensfidelio what's a good example of male wish fulfillment in a movie? I'm trying to come up with a few titles but I have little confidence they truly fit the bill.
@@iamV10010 Women complain about manic pixie dream girls who exist to fix men’s problems in movies, yet will watch Hallmark movies where a generic woman gets swept off her feet by Prince Charming (whether he’s a literal prince or just a generic cute guy).
@@iamV10010Male wish fulfilment? Definitely the Transformers Trilogy (nerdy guy gets the hot girl and cool adventures) or movies that contain one single night of extreme fun (and getting the girl) like Project X or I Love You Betty Cooper.
@@iamV10010A Good Year. It’s supposed to be romantic but the male main character continues being a sexist jerk the whole way through and doesn’t do anything to deserve getting the woman. It is instructed by some famous action director I can’t remember the name of who wanted a holiday. Actually most action movies are probably wish fulfillment for men, I think 🤔
I can't believe Jane Austen wasn't mentioned, who literally wrote the formula for RomComs
You are right
Those heroines were truly aspirational to me as a young girl. Mainly the materialistic things, like her job, her apartment with supportive friends, big city sceneries, clothes, making dumb mistakes and finally getting the good guy. Although i grew up and am a working woman myself now, i want to see those aspirational stuff on the big screen again. It's cheesy but brilliant to switch off your mind after a long day of work. There aren't many content for those post 25 year old working class women now 😢
Very true! These heroines had cool jobs, fabulous clothes and glamorous apartments. Plus friends who regularly meet her and cheer her on.
In the 90s those things were more affordable. You only needed an ordinary middle class job. Even in blue collar work you could work 40 hours a week and still afford to live if only in a trailer.
It is only in recent years that the middle class has disappeared so there is now only the very rich and the very poor. Even school teachers are poor now.
The characters in Friends had well paid jobs or wealthy relatives who left them a flat overlooking Central Park. Phoebe inherited hers from her grandmother. Both Chandler and Ross had well paid jobs. Rachel and Monica were helped out by their parents.
New York properties were much cheaper in the 70s and 80s so if you bought then you could afford to live in a now gentrified area such as the meat packing district. Even the upper west side was run down in the 60s. West Side Story was set in it.
Because it actually existed back then. Believe it or not we used to have a middle class with spending power and even blue collar workers could live on one full time job instead of taking six part time jobs that equate to two full time jobs.
Amen! ♥ I'm 29 and I have the group of supportive friends, a great best friend, the (almost!) wardrobe I love and I'm dating a good guy (maybe not THE guy, but still!). But my career is taking forever to reeeally start and I cannot afford to go live on my own yet I neeeeeed new rom-coms to dream about my future (even though it is my dream job!), but I keep rewatch old ones in the meantime xD
Hmm I don’t want to see it 😂 it’s hullshit the average person can’t live that life so why should it be glamaroized? If anything shows like friends made a generation of women feel horrible for not having that life!
I miss the feel good story lines of rom coms and their often awesome soundtracks. We forgot that the screen is often escapism not supposed to simulate a duller reality.
I always aspired to be like Kat. She was spunky and no nonsense, yet with a hidden vulnerable side. It's worth nothing that she was turned off by Patrick's "Bad Boy" persona, but it was only once she'd discovered that he was a genuinely nice guy who's reputation was composed of rumours that she begins to fall for him.
If you were in a romantic comedy, which decade would you want your romantic comedy to be set in?
@@kamsismith Hmm, that's a fun, creative question. Probably the late 90's or the early 00's, since many of my favourite chick flicks came out around that time. How about yourself?
Either the 80s or the 2000s, but mostly the 2000s since the rom-com genre were the last decade for its boom before it was left on hiatus for a couple of years until Crazy Rich Asians revived the genre.
I miss rom-com heroines with fun apartments and jobs in the media. I felt seen in those roles. Also, I’m my own sassy best friend.
Yes, I felt "seen" too. I still work in media and am still my own sassy best friend. (And I did score the great husband too!) But prior to marriage, I also had the great apartment and did not want to settle just to "settle down."
@@BeYounique...Maryanne That’s fierce. Bless you.
@@PokhrajRoy. Right back at you! Your comment totally inspired me! Independent women are awesome; keep being you!
@@BeYounique...Maryanne Thank you
Because people could actually afford them back then. Even the big houses often seen in films such as Father of the Bride. When suburban land is cheap and buildings made from wood they are a lot cheaper than brick buildings.
I don't understand why everyone these days say that something it's not realistic in romantic movies. Uhm it's a movie it's a fairytale. I'm watching it to forget about reality and dream.
I think the same
As much as I liked romcoms, my only dislike is there a common theme of humbling the Mc (mostly women characters), which I always found annoying. Also red flag love interest
I blame “Taming of the Shrew” and “Pygmalion”.
Truthful if you gender flip the heroines(I guess it is a little overly cerebral though) then all this time these were just rehashs of the careerist romcom story(you know basically when the workaholic guy meets his MPDG) and truthfully how has a generational gap with gender, not been a part of the story narrative?
Does the fact that You’ve Got Mail is a remake of The Shop Around The Corner come into anything?
Right?!
It wasn’t written for the internet age. It’s a very old rom com plot. 🙄
1:00 Julia Roberts is truly one of a kind. Such an icon.
I love the I don't give a fuck 1940s gals 😂
I would love if the Take can do a deep dive into My Best Friend's Wedding. Rewatching it after 26 years made me realize that Michael was the real villain all along.
The episode of "We Hate Movies" (a podcast) about that film is so funny, I highly recommend it!
@@julietteangeli thanks will check it out
I watched these romcoms in my teenage years, and nothing beats them. I still come back to rewatch them, and even though now I could see the not so romantic side of it, I found it very comforting like a hugs, like a fairy tales for adults ❤
Nora Ephron, the genius that you are ❤
She truly was a gifted woman
I love "My best friend's wedding"
Getting older is realizing that my Best friend wedding is Toxic- I used to love that movie - but whew watch it again and you are not rooting for Jules not at all.
I root for her to break them up. Not so Jules can have him but to save Cameron Diaz/Kimmy. Rewatching the scene where Jules tricks Kimmy into suggesting the guy take a job with her dad and how harshly he turns on her. By the end of it, she's vowing to give up her schooling for him and begging him to forgive her. It's chilling.
idc there are girls who are girls girls who drink beer, eat pizza & sports. I’m over the stigma that we hate those types. It’s annoying. Girls can like whatever tf they want.
(I'm still trying to wrap my head around the 'class' issues, with how women express themselves, the working girl can't afford femininity, but somehow only rich women are allowed self-defense training, oh and her having her own bank account, that counted as a masculine hobby)and at least now we're all rethinking the larger issues with 'cheap food' and what actually counts as healthy food,
11:04 Put Nia long again after showing her before, not Regina Hall
Question: when someone proposes to you, does the person have to state your full name, or is that the kind of thing that only happens in the movies?
Only in the movies
State the full name!
It shows how much you know them.
Thanks for including a Chelsea Fagan clip!! Love her!
1:40 Katharine Hepburn and Myrna Loy were the OGs.
So so many black and white films gave actresses the chance to show lots of depth and character.
@@jenni4claire I mean, yes and no.
@@PokhrajRoy.How so?
@@beethovensfidelio The stories were there but female actors were not sustained by good scripts. Also ageism and racism. Not to forget hostile work environments. Still a long way to go.
@@PokhrajRoy. Good points!
Acting like older movies had better written roles for women unlike today is such a *“white feminist” mentality,* since the examples of well written female characters are almost always played by *white women like Katherine Hepburn, Myrna Loy, Bette Davis, Jean Arthur, and Claudette Colbert.*
I’ve never seen white women apply the same to women of color because women of color were often portrayed as racist and sexualized stereotypes for the white male gaze.
Plus, it didn’t help that the Hays Code prohibited interracial relationships in films which is why you had white actresses playing non-white women like Jennifer Jones donning yellowface to play a Eurasian woman in “Love is a Many Splendored Thing” and Natalie Wood donning brownface to play a Puerto Rican woman in “West Side Story”.
Respectfully, at 11:03 that's Nia Long (again), not Regina Hall.
when's the All of Us Strangers analysis coming....? Asking for a friend :)
“You’ve got mail”started as a novel “the postman always rings twice” later made into a film called “the shop around the corner and it was also a Broadway musical called “she loves me.”
It’s a very old romcom story.
It wasn’t written for the internet age. It was adapted.
"She's got the job" *shows Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman* Um...she had a job, thats true. Sex work is work. Aspirational? Nope!
In general, I think a realistic love story just wouldn’t make for an interesting movie. The drama and wrong-doing are part of the appeal. They’ll do what we otherwise wouldn’t and still achieve the idealized end result.
Including how you look at something(thank you to King of the Hill and Bob's Burgers) anything in real life, can be laughable,
2024 and still no mainstream Black romcoms 😭 I’m praying some will be made soon
2:36 Correction: It’s written ‘1997’.
I love my best friends wedding. It was literally about the acceptance of herself and everyone around her
Strong wish fulfillment
I still think "Notting Hill" is a regurgitation of "Four Weddings and Funeral" just like I still think "She's All That" is outright rip off of "Pretty in Pink."
She's All That is Pygmalion, which has been adapted into movies for awhile.
She’s All That is Pygmalion, which is also what My Fair Lady is based on. Honestly, it’s pretty ridiculous to say it’s an ‘outright’ rip off when they’re both inspired by the same source material. I prefer Four Weddings and a Funeral to Notting Hill too.
1980= 65% Romance, 45% lust
1990= 50% Romance, 50% lust
2000= 40% Romance, 60% lust
2010= 30% Romance, 70% lust
2020= Pseudo idea of romance, Celebration of lust
2:35 is a mistake. Annie Hall is 1977, not 1997
Congratulations to those that found love, good luck to those embarking on the journey and to my happily single ladies who quit. 💐
There is also Boomerang (1992) with a majority black cast.
This going to be posted on Spotify?
Where do you get the clips from?
there was another side of the 90s Rom Coms... which I call Indie 90s Rom Coms where the man isn't a complete dolt. Films like; Next Stop Wonderland, Mr. Jealousy, Ed's Next Move, Two Ninas, and Hi LIfe.... that don't seem to get much attention....
Please do an analysis of the impact of Latin artists like Karol G, Kali Uchis, and Young Miko who are making a statement with their music in a mainly male industry. They are raising the women's voices.
@thetake Thanks for mentioning black people as a sidenote instead of just including them in the main story. Also for showing a picture of Nia Long and saying it was Regina.
Perhaps the flaws of the 90s rom-coms made them iconic - the ‘corrected’ versions don’t seem to have much longevity.
11:42 Does anyone know the source or have the link for this video clip with the quote "If you just turn off the sappy music and turn on a David Fincher score, romantic comedies are stalker movies. Romantic comedy behaviour in real life is criminal."??
Re-watched You've Got Mail recently and did not realize how cringe-worthy Tom Hanks' character was. Not in the beginning, but all the lying and manipulation he does after he finds out who she is. And he doesn't even have a crisis of conscience about it: that's just brushed under the rug at the end.
It's the first day of Women's History Month😊
How perfect is it that I am watching this video on that day.
Why does it say "Annie Hall (1997)"
It was the best of feminism and the best of romance, and the best parts of men, so they could approach that woman they secretly loved , adored, and admired and marry and have those babies and put a ring on it. I miss these mid-budget movies.
Hmm, with writing has anybody else noticed parallel to Maslow's hierarchy of needs?
28 is so young... The fuck?! Haha you change so much throughout life if you live to 100... 28 seems like just a baby in a way
It was the 1990s.
The economy was much cheaper.
Being married by 28 was reasonable back in the day because that was enough time to make enough money after you’ve graduated from college (assuming the average graduation age is 22, then you could make enough money to support yourself in 6 years).
In the 90's the median age for women to marry was 20-24.
I'm 37. When I was in high school, it was expected to be married by 25 and a mother by 30.
great video but it's kind of also lacking any real depth. like these are all things we've heard before if we've been in these sort of pop culture/movie/feminist spaces long enough.
I’ll take 90’s rom-com’s over 2000’s rom-com’s, tbh
Is it that big of a difference?
I just watched You've Got Mail for the first time and loved the movie but hated the ending.
The antidote this girls was Dharma from Dharma and Greg
That was an additional picture of Nia Long not Regina Hall.
Ok, I don’t agree when you say there’s still a diversity problem in movies today. It’s not perfect but it will never be perfect. As a black woman i see more than enough diversity to the point where it’s ridiculous…for example casting a non-white person to play snow WHITE. Come on…
The actress is half Polish. Is that not white enough?
Also, we did have a half Chinese actress play Snow White. The actress from Smallville.
And to be fair, the princess is literally white as snow. Like TB white or Vampire pale.
@@sammyvictors2603 some versions say, it was because she was born during winter, or that her mother really loved a flower(there are literally real-life flowers called) snow white, or she found the flower actually blooming in winter.
@@RoninRen yes I know. But when adapting it to live screen, its impossible to make the actress's skin literally white as snow without making it look uncanny, scary, or like cosplay makeup.
So most actresses playing the role tend to look naturally pale.
@@sammyvictors2603 she doesn’t have to necessarily be Caucasian but she should be more fair skinned. I know I could never play Snow White and there’s nothing wrong with that! Every role isn’t for everybody.
Half of these are based off Shakespeare or other classical works. Not indicative of the 90s
They are inspired by Shakespeare, but they change a lot + work in 90’s social commentary, fashion, tropes etc. 10 Things I Hate About You is similar to Taming of the Shrew in premise only.
I love a romcom ❤
Gimme a lady with style and a leading person that some how sees the greatness in her and she sees the good in him and they have amazing sex and cereal that never goes soggy.
girls who hate girls who drink beer are insecure 😂 anytime I meet a martini girl I’m impressed bc I cannot babe
Correction: Gabrielle Union didn't help anyone in She's All That or 10 Things I Hate About You
11: 03 .That wasn't regina Hall. Do better. It was nia long.
I was looking for this comment
You’re right but ‘Do better’ is the most self-righteous ‘constructive criticism’ ever. Just say ‘You moron’ like a normal person.
Why would anyone want a realistic rom-com?
i've always wondered how many young females watched movies like this and were literally unable to see how unrealistic these plotlines are. i know i, for one, have never ever once watched any movie or tv show and thought fer a minute that any of it was ever gonna translate into real life. not once.
i also fail on every level to see how any of this "genre" of movie or tv show is in any way sexist or "misogynist". flicks like these suck up to the female demographic like nothing in history ever has. but, i suppose, to some people even movies about how to grow bananas is somehow "sexist".
"Unrealistic" stories to you. Real life has plenty of "unrealistic" stories anyone would think they are from a book or movie.
‘Unrealistic’ does not mean impossible. It’s still unrealistic. Those stories are exceptional because they are rare and strange.
@@thenablade858 That is quite literally what unrealistic means........(of a course of action) impossible in practice to do or carry out.
Poor Meg Ryan. The whole package, and she ends up with...Billy Crystal.
“When Harry Met Sally” was written by a WOMAN (Nora Ephron), so it’s not a male fantasy movie of the ugly male loser getting the gorgeous girl.
Also, what’s wrong with Billy Crystal? Just because he’s not GQ material doesn’t mean he’s unlovable.
Some women appreciate men who can make them laugh.
😂😂😂
she doesn't end up with billy crystal, she ends up with harry. cause it's a movie. and he's great.
Re: _You've Got Mail:_ Not that romantic at the time either.
Even though I love 90,s romantic comedy like 10 things I hate about you and pretty woman there was no diversity im so glad that things have changed with films like crazy rich Asians ❤
Shepherd's Chapel Network !!!!!!! Do you know where America is mentioned in the Bible ???????
I'm the first! Yay!
First
Pretty Woman was one the bleakest movies I ever saw. I remember it made sick (and gave me nightmares).
I never warmed to the idea that he accepted they were genuinely equals, once the initial romance wore off.
“Pretty Woman” is still tamer than its original screenplay (then titled “3,000”) which had Vivian addicted to drugs and Edward dumping Vivian and her $3,000 salary on the side of the road.
You read right!
The reason the film is tamer than its original script is executive meddling done by Disney chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg.
I hate that its considered "romantic". It's such a sad story
@@tanjabuchholz5314 “Pretty Woman” is romantic for the same reason that women consider “Fifty Shades of Grey” romantic:
A sexy millionaire takes you under his wing, makes you feel special, constantly showers you with gifts, and keeps you under his control!
It’s a combination of “I can fix him” and “I get to be treated like a princess”.
I joke that Edward in “Pretty Woman” is basically Christian Grey from “Fifty Shades of Grey” but without the BDSM.
nothing romantic about richard gere playing a r...st.
Who cares if they were unrealistic???? They were what we all wanted to be..
That’s nice. It’s stil unrealistic.
Pizza isnt actually fattening unless yiu eat a large one or a deep pan one.
oh wow, THAT'S the takeaway you got from this video?
@@itsflowerside Scroll on.
When Harry Met Sally is NOT from the 90s. 🙄
It's also not written by Nora Ephron (she directed it) it's was written by Rob Reiner!
I did not see myself at all in these women. I felt so alienated and ignored having this narrow vision of femininity monopolize the big screen. I honestly don't know what you're talking about in this video
Thankfully romantic comedies are starting to become more inclusive with female protagonists who are fat, non-white, transgender, or gay.
But yes, in the 1990s, the women in those romantic comedies were almost always white, cisgender, heterosexual, thin, and conventionally attractive.
Even if the female protagonist wasn’t attractive, she had to get a makeover or lose weight to get the guy, which almost never applies to male protagonists in romantic comedies.
I'm a man and I don't relate but I can enjoy them. Not everything needs to be relateable
@@SukmyPikachu ugh. The reason it is not relatable is because of the privilege and blinders of the video maker.
And if you're a man, maybe you shouldn't be coming into feminist spaces telling women that it's okay for them to be overlooked or how they shouldn't say anything when they are
"they're" (they are) otherwise cute video
Who is this comment for?! There's no script shown for the video
Oh nvm just saw what this was referring to 😂😂
THEIR was correctly used in the video title. Unnecessary correction.
No.
These videos always start off fun and then turn into "everything is problematic and aged badly". Then stop talking about older movies. Wait, you can't, because they're the only ones people care about, because all the new stuff coming out is garbage, because all they do is copy better things and check diversity boxes.
Yep. That's it in a nutshell. Studio meddling, overly ambitious (and way too rushed) filming schedules, writing filled with pandering and too many open-ended stories (always with the sequel-bait) means that comparatively few pieces of media nowadays are actually enjoyable.
.
Years prior, studios trusted their people hired to do the jobs of movie making a bit more, and thus took some pride in what thet were creating. And we got better stuff for entertainment, as a result. Stuff where the story arc is planned out ahead of time, the internal logic makes sense (at least mostly, and for its time), the characters are consistent and if not likable then at least enjoyable.
.
Walt Disney for example (since Disney owns half the world anymore, it feels like, and Amazon and Netflex own the rest). He's a man that, well, has more than a few problematic arguments centered around him. But he was a smarter business man than the people running his company now. Ofc he had to care about short and medium-term gains, but also long-term financial stability of the company, which in part hinged on its reputation. Which meant they needed to consistently put out quality products or they were sunk. And for a while after him, the execs likewise planned ahead.
.
Which meant stuff giving the artists proper time to study movement so the art of how animated characters interacted would look right, or time for the writers to research details, casting people that actually fit the role (and could act) rather than just hiring bug names, etc. And making sure the media would stand on its own as something people would love and come back to even after any fads featured in it faded and the starring actors left the limelight.
.
You can't build a new franchise on half-*ssery, pandering and trends-chasing -- and you can't maintain an already established one on nostalgia alone forever. I wish tv and movie makers were allowed to do their jobs and create stuff that has some effing artistic integrity anymore without worrying about checking boxes off on a list. And if they want to check the boxes, then they'd be allowed to work with hashtag-actually-(insert minority here) people instead of a bunch of very likely older white rich dudes calling the storytelling shots like they have any idea what they're doing or even talking about.
P. S. Typo -- big names, not bug.
Nailed it. This channel has become insufferable with its endless virtue signalling and derision of every piece of media because it didn't represent every contrived subgroup of human. Coming from two upper-class white women, it just feels performative with an air of moral superiority. FFS, just let a piece of media be what it is instead of bitching about what it couldn't have been because then it wouldn't be itself anymore. It always turns into "white women bad" at the end of every f*cking video. It's unnecessarily self-flagellating and eye-rollingly tiresome. If they do one more Sex and the City video, f*ck it. I'm out.
Why only hetro relationships? Where are queer female rom com.. I'd say your list is homophobic.
It was mentioned in But I'm A Cheerleader.
I think in queer female romcom movies ,its hard find these kind of tropes .( may be I'm wrong I had only watched almost 5 movies queer lovestory)
it should be in seperate video on topics on evolution of female female lovestory portrayal, one dimensional presentation of queer character in supporting role etc ..and I think they already done videos regarding this topics too ..
Having a small sample size is not purposeful, malicious exclusion.
The narrator literally called out the industry for not PROVIDING enough properties.
How many queer female romcom movies that were hits in the 90s can you name?
@Primogen16 Does it matter when there were more in the 21st century? Pride was a kind of rom com as well as a dramatised documentary with some artistic licence. Besides what's wrong with using the terms gay, Lesbian or bisexual?