Abandoning Nihilus to Chaos would only make a stronghold for Chaos several orders of magnitude larger than the Eye. Once the worlds were fully lost, cleansing them of Chaos would be nigh on impossible. Simply denying Chaos the opportunity to build an empire in Nihilus is well worth the effort.
@@el33ment just armada of vessels that can shoot black holes with 100% accuracy like the unfinished one of Adeptus Mechanicus is enough to make even Dark Eldars to shit out of their pants and never left Webway
I think part of Guilliman not wanting to abandon Nihilus and go across the Rift again is a nice mirror to the HH since he stayed behind in Ultramar and Sanguinius went through the Ruin Storm to Terra.
Eh? That's not accurate. Sang, Gill and Jon all stayed behind on Ultramar, fearing everything else lost. Then they all went through the Ruin Storm to reach Terra together after Curze provoked them to prove his visions true. The only time he stayed behind was after holding back the enemy and making an opening for Sanguinius to reach Terra and fulfill his death scene as he saw it, while the Lion went off to burn traitor worlds, starting with his own apparently.
Ceding the Imperium Nihilus would give the various Chaos & Xenos forces in that region immense resources & effectively unfettered expansion. Down the line they’ll come thundering across the great rift & be far more challenging than they are now.
Imagine all the tasty biomass the Tyranids could gorge on and then show up in Sanctus even bigger than had they been fought in Nihilus. Abandoning Nihilus makes no sense when there are still men and guns to defend it
Really, the concept of abandoning Imperium Nihilus and focusing on the more stable and secure side of the galaxy shouldn't be a surprise - The Imperium of Man in the past was always commanded with cruel logic, rather than any measure of humanity. The best characters and heroes of the Imperium, your Blackmanes and Kantors, their most triumphant moments are doing the right thing DESPITE the Imperium. The Imperium is, as a galactic, overall faction, about as human as a Tyranid hive fleet, an unthinking system of general preservation that will always opt for the 'better safe than sorry' option, even (And often) to its own detriment. If anything, the rise of Guilleman has been the first real hope humanity has had since the Siege of Terra, his neutral semi-alliance with eldar elements, rise of Primaris Marines and the Emperor's ascension indicates that the Imperium might start adapting in a more nobledark direction. The fact they're not cutting off from Nihilus already is a marked shift from the classic setting, where the Imperium would always act in the best interests of nobles and high lords, not the countless unwashed masses toiling throughout the galaxy.
Just forget about Solar Macharius. Whilst the High Lord's have had to be phenomenally ruthless as have Inquisitors like Czevak, they deploy this in the most absolutely dire situations. Segmentum Commands have a closer grip on the local situation and won't toss away worlds even if there is a long tough fight to keep it - look at the Siege of Vraks for instance.
I mean if they abandoned Nihilus they are also abandoning the entire blood angels legion. They are also leaving many many worlds to restart the traitor empire wide open.
It isn't cruel logic, it is fear and stupidity. Giving half the galaxy to chaos is absolutely unacceptable and will guarantee failure in the end by handing them trillions of souls in advance
The Lion shall wake from his slumber, the Great Wolf will arise with an Eldar goddess on his arm, the Promethean Primarch will emerge from the darkness and the Great Khan shall lead his Dothraki, sorry, I mean his White Scars in battle. The sons still live, the bell has not yet rung, and even now, the Emperor rises in the warp, sending the great plagued one to his mansion and causing the others to pause. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day.
Corax not Russ Only Johnson, Jaghatai and Corax were seen coming back by the chief Wolf Priest. He in fact specifically couldn't see Russ coming back at all, suggesting all or most of his brothers will return before him.
@@chrisbennett6236 I‘d like Corax returning, but he hunts for Lorgar. Russ searches gor the tree of life, probably Isha. I wouldn’t like Russ returning, because the imperium isn’t at its end in my opinion. Russ should return at the end as forseen.
If the Lion awakens next, send him over with a proper force and just starting taking bets for how long it takes! He knows how to wage long desperate wars on the Northern Front
Imagine how the realisation of being completely abandoned is pushing the Dark Imperium into an age of strife and in tenthousand years of darkness. Until on one planet, after a collective suicide of extremely powerful psykers, an extremely powerful, godlike human being arises, unites humankind on this planet and then starts to create a unified half-galactic wide Imperium...
I could see the normal people, lower commanders wanting to abandon imperium nihilus, but not Guilliman. He sees his father's vision for humanity as his own mission in a sense and to let it fall would be devastating to him and the imperium as a whole. Hopefully some of his brothers (the lion and Russ particularly) will hear the call and return with a fury unlike anything seem cause Guilliman will need both executioner and exterminator for the battles to come
Johnson should be the next or one of the next to return but there's nothing about Russ returning. Hell aside from Johnson, Jaghatai and Corax being seen coming back soon by the Wolves, there has at least been whispers of Vulkan and Dorn.
I think maybe the Emperors vision for humanity was mostly words or means to an end. But I think those words sank into some of the primarchs and that is they who embody the best aspirations of what humanity can become. It was Guilleman who told Dante to make Baal better for the people and to remember that quality of life matters. The Emperor maybe was shady AF and to calculating to really care? We certainly know that the Lords of Terra and any other human government is never gonna achieve the ideals of the great crusade, so maybe in a complete twist it is the loyalist "meta human" primarchs that drank the cool aid and will try to make improvements to quality of life?
@@chrisbennett6236 I agree the likely hood of Russ coming back is slim to none, but that's what Guilliman needs. Johnson imo is the most likely to come back because Guilliman may have the empire building but he's not a strong tactician or brutally efficient as Johnson.
@@kylerehkamp2793 hang Guilliaman is not a strong tactician? - I thought that was his whole deal :p - perhaps at the micro level Russ and Lion are better - but at the macro level its got to be Guilliaman, as he is proving now?
@@alastair4839 I'm not saying he isn't good, I'm just saying the 2 brothers he needs to fight the tides of chaos are Johnson and Russ. He needs Johnson because he's a pragmatist and can bring a lot to the table, and Russ because he's been known as the emperor's executioner, combined I think all 3 with their legions at legion strength would make for a better fight than say the Khan, Corax, Dorn, or Vulkan.
"...and he will not abandon it's people." I literally swelled with pride and shouted in joy at this line. You're my favorite 40k lorehead for saying things like this, literally gave me goosebumps.
If I understand things correctly in the imperium nihilis the blood angels have a weaker version of the astronomicon, but rather than the emperor being the becon it is the sanguinor and the Sanguineous blood god warp entity. It is mentioned however that the navigators unsung these becons have to pay extra attention to the sporadic warp storms and the significantly larger amounts of demons in the warp paths they are given but still it functions well enough. As Dante marshals power it allows Sanctus to have the breathing room to be relatively safe. Nihilis is legitimately a bulwark against the darkness, hell literally they stopped a demon primarch from settling a beachhead into real space. It’s working as a constant buffer against literal horde attempting to overtake humanity. Even in the worst case senerio nihilis is needed to jeep sancus functional. If the lion comes back I could see him Working with Dante. we know the lion respected Sanguineous enough to allow himself to be reprimanded by his brother so we could have the lion see an echo of his brother in Dante and marshal both the emperors angels together to fight under a United banner to alleviate the pressure
I also reckon we're gearing up here for a return of Sanguinius - but rather as a Guilliman-style resurrection, we'll see the "light" part of his soul merge with that of Dante. Mephiston is already host to the "dark" part of Sanguinius' soul so we know this is to some extent possible, and it would make even more sense now you mention that Sanguinius' soul in the warp is capable of maintaining it's own astronomicon. The other obvious thing is why the hell Mephiston got the Primaris treatment but we're still sat here with a 20-odd yr old Dante model. There's no way they wouldn't update such a beloved character unless they had some big plot thing in store for him later. I actually think the next big stage for 40k is the Emperor either dying or ascending to true godhood, and the primarchs returning in one way or another will then become more independent powers within the Imperium with their own agendas and alliances.
If the Imperium Nihlus is to be saved, the Lion must awaken and the First must be reunited. Not as a chapter, but as a full legion. Then they must be set loose. Especially if Perturabo or Lorgar retun in Sanctus, Perty is the only one who could (probably) beat Gulliman in logistics and sheer stubbornness and Lorgar knows exactly how to use the Imperium's faith against it. The Lion needs to be there to keep the North's problem in check and off Gulliman's back.
The scene that Lorgar leaves his self-imposed warp prison to try to monologue in the Material plane is the same scene where he gets shanked in the back by Corax with a "Welcome back to the Emperor's realm, *brother* "
I think Dante will hold the line fighting a stalemate at best till the Lion comes in and crushes the traitors and brings Dante relief although he won't want to be the lord of Imperium Nighalis he will want to be the new Warmaster in all but name bringing death to traitors and leaving Guilliman as a logistical mastermind and Dante holding the north backed by his Primarch in the Warp. But that's just my thoughts
@Aung Un'Rama Hmm, I wouldn't say that, but it'll be pretty bad. Also I thought the First follow Gulliman's Space Book. I'm probably wrong on that, but I could have sworn they were compliant.
So long as Imperial forces continue to fight against the forces of Chaos and Xenos in the Dark Imperium there will always be a chance to regain control of that part of the Galaxy. In truth the forces of Chaos seems more interested in destroying one other rather than taking more territory from the Imperium, and one could argue that it is the Xenos threat that pose to destroy it. Orks, Tyranids, and Necrons are becoming more and more powerful, and the Eldar and the Tau are a threat that continue to evade the Imperial forces might. Though all these threats the Emperor continues to grant his servants the strength needed to fight against the darkness that continues to grow within his light, and loyal imperial citizens will continue to fight to defend themselves against all those these threats that threaten the Emperor realm.
It's a war of attrition. Imperium Nihlus is currently the Imperium's Stalingrad: too large and strategically important to let it go without a fight, economically vital to the Imperium as a whole, but the Imperium can survive without it. The resources of Chaos are large but not infinite, and are much depleted after the Fall of Cadia. If they can grind Chaos to dust, the Indomitus Crusade - the new "Operation Uranus" - can re-establish a link with Imperium Nihlus eventually and begin repairing the damage. Even if it takes another ten thousand years.
Abandoning Imperium Nihilus would be giving the enemy vast resources in men and material, not to mention cowardly. Fortunately, Roboute Guilliman is in charge, and not a coward; the story would be different with disorganized cowards like Leman Russ, who went AWOL and deserted the Adepts Astartes, in SUCH a cowardly fashion.
I still haven't forgiven him for leaving Terra when Dorn needed him. If the Wolves were in play, then they could have held out for as long as needed for support.
@@darkscholar625 Even worse there still aren't even any whispers about Russ returning. The Wolves chief Librarian foresaw the imminent return of Johnson, Jaghatai and Corax. Plus we've had recent teasers about Dorn and Vulkan. But nothing about Russ. At least Dorn, Vulkan Jaghatai and Corax left chasing enemies of the Imperium. We still don't know why Russ left.
@@darkscholar625 10000% this he was more need in the defense than some fools errand. Russ and his sons would have made all the difference in some fights.
Guilliman would never abandon imperium nihilus, remember at the very beginning of his crusade, he literally recalled all forces from worlds that were fighting a losing fight practically abandoning those worlds to theyre fate. To do it a second time would be too much guilt for guilliman. But i feel as great as guilliman is, he seriously needs help
all of the worlds they’d surrender would probably not be retaken in the next few hundred years and their ability to produce and supply more troops would be lost maybe even for ever. Abandoning the north would grant a short burst of troops, but not the facilities to supply them. The burst in strength would last maybe a thousand years, but it would eventually fissile out and the imperium would be worse of than before
It needs another big event to keep it from collapsing, another Primarch to return. The Lion is the obvious one they've been hinting at returning next, but the Dark Angels have their own strange agenda, and if it isn't going to be charging head first into Nihilus then it honestly should be another Primarch like Jaghatai to come back next. He's the perfect kind of offence for this huge defensive war the Dark Imperium is entrenched in, quick and opportunistic. He could be taking the heads off of multiple chaos warbands and leaving them as "easy" pickings for the main forces lead by Dante. Just the knowledge that another of the Emperor's sons is fighting there with them is the kind of hope they need to get through this.
Great video. Reading that exact passage really made me realise the grand strategical situation. This is something ABD seems to grasp better than almost every other 40k fan; Without communication, warp travel and coordination, the Imperial forces in Nihilus (although been truly enormous and mighty) can't win! The Imperium is 100% dependent on FTL travel, and now those mighty armies are stuck as islands of might in a dark sea. No longer will reinforcement arrive to chase of Waarghs, defeat chaos incursions or destroy Hivefleets. Every force is alone, and alone they will be swallowed. And as hiveworlds, forgeworlds and farmeworlds falls, those armies will be starved of men, material and resources. This is simply a logistical fact, as Guilleman is all to aware of! Can the Imperium win? Yes if the Necrons or Eldar or Crawl finds a way to close the Rift. Otherwise it is simply a matter of time. Hundreds or thousands of years it matters not to the near-immortal enemies like Chaos marines or Orks or Tyranids. They have time.
Guilliman said he could not win with half an empire. There'll be no retreat, it'll be win or lose. The lesser lords etc can rumble all they want but once his crusade over there starts there'll be support even if only for the economic advantages of connecting the other half of the empire.
The Primarch knows. Adopting a siege mentality and abandoning positions is ultimately self defeating. The Dark Imperium situation is grim. But whilst men stand and fight. Then nothing remains out of reach. Think of the countless millions of humans there. Think of the sacrifices and honor of the legionaries of the great crusade that conquerored those worlds. The Imperium also has the hope of heroes unlooked for. One in The Rock. Stirs.
The Necrons are going to make a push back, they are probably producing thousands of Black Pilons to move back the warp to the Cadian line again or even beyond. The wild card I am imagining here is the Necrons. The Necron worlds are also lost in the Xicatrix Malodixcion ( I do not know how to spell that name…) anyway I imagine the Silent King lossing his mind when he saw like thousands of tome worlds lost into the Warp. The War of the Gods continue
I'm really curious what Dante's reaction would be to being abandoned by the empire. If the only reason he keeps fighting is a belief he is destined to be the golden warrior defending the Emperor from Sanguinius's prophecy, what happens when that belief is shattered?
The Imperium does try to source what it can locally to cut down on long warp journeys. The Astronomican isn’t the only beacon in the Imperium, even though it is by far the biggest. However, Astropaths can only be made on Terra. If they can’t get them to where they’re needed in the Dark Imperium...
The most logical outcome I can see from this is the Imperium having to do a massive consolidation of power and resources to maintain its presence in the Imperium Nihilus. Baal could become the secondary capital of the Imperium, with it's surrounding star systems being declared as a safe zone for refugees still loyal to the Emperor. Beyond that there could be contested zones where the Imperium maintains outposts around resources too vital to be abandoned. Finally there would be regions of space that the Imperium has truly had no choice but to abandon, and here the monsters dwell!
Honestly, I read the novels featuring the Wordbearer Marduk, and honestly, I always thought it was hinting at his work being the cause of the Cicatrix Maledictum- as in, not the felling of Cadia, but the powering and expanding the rift itself into such a size.
One direction GW could take is Ork Salvation. Octarius comes to conclusion and the nonstop warring between a tendril of Leviathan and the Orks is over, the Orks have won and evolved a few Krorks. The newly evolved superior leaders immediately gain the loyalty of all orks in the galaxy, innately knowing to follow. The Krorks assess the situation and see that their human and eldar cousins are in trouble from chaos. Yes orks innately know humans and eldar are their cousins (created by the old ones) it is why they dont eat people. So then we have the great ork crusade. The Krorks go onto epic battles and eventually reestablish the balance. I would love to see orks in this role for once. Orks were created to battle and protect the galaxy from the Cthan, maybe if evolved again through warfare with nids they return to that for a short while and give us something entirely new.
if the imperium fell back to even a small bridgehead covering the great rigt and surrounding systems, and let the ruinous powers and xeno take control, the imperium would fall soon after, dozens of hive fleets gorged on the abandoned worlds of the nihilius would smash through the nachtmund gauntlet and even start piercing through the great tear from too many points across the rift meanwhile for chaos, they are almost always outmanned and outgunned compared to the might of the imperium, lorgar, perty, or abbie would know exactly what to do with all these new hive worlds, agriworlds, deathworlds and such
The Emperor is going to wake up the Lion and soon. If you think about this is actually good for Guilliman and Johnson as the 2 of them would be butting heads constantly but Lion would undoubtedly be focused on taking the fight to Niulus just as Guilliman is.
The Lion would be quietly happy Gulliman quickly started Indomitus and agree with how he has begun to rebuild. I dont think he would show as much patience with the other factions of the imperium as Gulliman has. He wouldnt negotiate or appease the high lords or ecleasiarchy
The lion is the best general of the lot. I would love to see him marshall the forces of the Emperium . I'd love to see him and Dante kick ass together. Angels of darkness and blood.
Even strategically it’s a bad idea so you leave, giving chaos more resources a bigger beach head and then they focus on Sanctus. So staying and reinforcing nilus is tactically and morally the best idea.
Even from a purely pragmatic standpoint, which, let's be honest, is the one that will actually sway Roboute in the end, it would be stupidity to the point of suicide to abandon half the imperium to chaos
Nihilis is probably lost, but it also cannot be abandoned an chaos and the Xeno empires allowed to run riot. The imperium might not be able to win, but maybe they dont need to. Maybe they just need to not loose and hang on, preventing anyone else from consolidating power there. To spoil any attempts to snowball out of control by any of the other factions while the imperium sanctus stabilizes itself and rallies, until it can push into the dark in earnest. If nihilus can only hold and take only minimal steps back, every second they buy in blood is another second the imperium sanctus is driving forward with its flanks relatively secure. They do not need to win. Just to not loose
and who knows what will happened with The Rift, maybe after a first emerged its power will reduced and may shrink or allow Astronomicon to shrine through. Or just buy enough time for Adeptus Mechanicus to find old Necron relics humans on TAOF used as nowadays Astronomicon to shrine the Nihilis
@Wolf Lord Rho, this is way off topic, but Im looking for some advice. Ive been doing the Black Library books on Audible. Ive made it through all of the Horus Heresy, all the available Siege of Terra, the 2 Black Legion books by ADB, the Night Lords Trilogy, and 1 or two others. My question is: What would you suggest as a new series to pick up while waiting for the rest of the Siege of Terra and the 3rd Black Legion book, given that Id prefer not to jump too far forward into the current storylines. Im trying to makey way through in some sense of order. Id be happy to hear any suggestions.
Dante will hold the north with big gains and big losses as his Crusade fleets can move with Mephiston there but other fleets unable to jump more then a system or 2 safely. Until the Lion awakes to bring death to the Imperium's enemies and being the new Crusade leader leaving Guilliman and Dante to run logistics and defense and rebuilding of their regions. Edit: with the red Scar the Blood Angels area and a few other areas being bastions of defense and relative safety.
If Nihilus is abandoned, that risks half the galaxy being adding to the forces of the ruinous powers, willingly or not, and definitely many would feel betrayed by the Imperium Sanctus. It would be a huge tactical error to do this because one day they would come for revenge.
I guess the Dark Imperium will get their own primarch that fits them. Following that will be a coordination between both Imperiums. Ah... just imagine the stories coming out of it.
The Lion will wake up, deal with Luther, unite his Angels and have him some traitors for lunch. Then he will have stern chat with Guilliman about why he's Lord Regent and why he broke the legions.
I think the seat of Imperial power which is in fact doomed is none other than Terra - putting on my tinfoil here for a second, I reckon there's gonna be a huge Chaos assault upon Terra but also that the Genestealer cults arise there and bring forth the Tyranids. I think during the final battle there we finally see all the pieces come together in 40k "end times" - however rather than do an AoS and kill off the universe, the big change will be the Emperor ascending to become a true god - effectively the Chaos God of Order, alongside the resurrection of the Eldar God of death. This will effectively bring about the destruction of Terra but the Imperium is empowered in other ways by it's own "Chaos god".
i'd like to see gulliman abandon Nihilus because its the logical and tactical thing to do in his mind, while the lion turns it into a more feudal knighly realm compared to the byzantine like empire of sanctus so we can get differing models for each side
There shall come a dark day, when the profit margins shall fall. When the Workshop for Games shall despair, and lament their disdain for and mistreatment of the faithful. And, on this day, when he is needed most, shall the Lion arise.
Spears book confused the hell out of me. if i remember right, Amadeus was sent before both the torch fleets and Indomitus Crusade began, yet the Spears already had Primaris. did i completely pass the section where they say how?
Yup, its lost in the sense of a whole imperium. This will allow Blood Angels to lean more into Sanguiniess. The Angel Boi, etc. Its a better plot point for eveything.
ADB is BL best writer imo. He captures essence of grim dark best, and I kind of resent him for that a little. There are no good guys in an ADB book. But hey, it's a tough galaxy and war is hell. On that note, it should be time soon to wake up the Lion and recall Leman and Valdor from the Immaterium, who will hopefully have Corax and the Khan in tow!
I'll just say that it might be safe to assume that this is the reason why Guilliman needed the help of the Ynnari. Crossing the great rift with standard travel of warp jumps is not only dangerous but also suicidal at some point. But what if???? The Ynnari grant some Webway Portals to Guilliman? Just a few points? Not only this will supply the Imperium Nihilus the munitions, supplies and man power but also take the Chaos forces by surprise. Let's face it. The Imperium alone cannot win this war. At least not without a little help. Afterall, if the Emperor willed Guilliman to return through Xenos powers, why not go all the way? They're fighting the same enemies anyway. They can back stab each other later. Chaos first, betray later 😅😁
After years of studying 40k lore I just don't understand why they don't just send the Ultramarines or Space Wolves into the warp and deep space and let them kill the chaos gods and then the hive mind?
The legions can't invade Demon World's because the warp is so strong there that it would corrupt the Legion immediately, turning them cultist. Keep in mind that chaos corruption isn't a mental state, it's a physical condition that can be imposed on anyone including the faithful.
@@Maidez09 Well, I mean there was that one time were the Space Wolves lost track of their Primarch and he spent the next ten thousand years taking the piss.
@@Danterag5 well I mean sure 'father' has been gone a while but when the result was a 1st from Cambridge, a great career in finance, and a supermodel wife (who is both smart and caring) you don't tend to look at it as a negative. Also, we know said 'father' is just coming around the corner unscathed and with all kinds past Christmas presents. Hardly a tale of woes in the grim and dark future.
The reason this is all happening is due to the use of warp drives and then the Golden throne and energy use to keep the corpse Emperor alive. The only way to fix the current warp breach rifts, is to hit the do not hit button so the the Emperor will be reborn and Then to reset the lost Primarchs restore the legions and kill the traitor Primarchs and reset them in new form.
But it may takes a lot of time, and The Emperor maybe executed immediately after be born again by inquisitors or be consumed by Chaos or Tyranids hive fleets. Even without all of it, 99.9999999999999% he have to survive through adulthood as denizens of Hive cities and may ended up as fuel haulers or worse. The horrific life he have to suffered after reborn will affects heavily to his point of view and can even turn him against human.
I mean... you are giving the enemy half to over half your land if you retreat. You only have control of the poorer section of the empire if you withdrew. And chaos is not as restricted by travel as you. They could in theory come out the rift at any point. No, secure the rift from both end.
Sorry I'm behind but if the emperor is waking up like it is said in godblite I think the emperor is working with guiliman and thru him look how successful he is without his brother s but when and how would he wake up I guess godblite is the last book but I blv all it takes is his true awakening or asention 👍🐲in vulkans name great video
It may be my fanboyish side to talk,but what is happening it makes me think the Lion is about to return. The First guided by the Lion are a force of unstoppable power.
So I am still relatively new to warhammer lore, but from my understanding doesn't Robute have a somewhat good relationship with the Eldar? If so would he not be able to possibly make a deal to use the webway so there would be space travel on the dark imperium side? Or am I misunderstanding what the webway is.
Negative. His relationship is good with literally a small handful of a few hundred Eldar. They absolutely cannot allow the Imperium to enter the Webway because that's were the Eldar are hiding a bunch of Craft World's which are too valuable to risk losing.
@@SirAtrox Correct: the Dark Eldar also live in the Webway. It's completely outside of the realm of Chaos and immune to its effects. Jaghethai Khan and a bunch of White Scars have been trapped in it for about ten thousand years. (They were hunting Dark Eldar pirates) and I don't know how they entered the Webway to begin with but it is possible. Corpse God was trying to make a gate into it but Magnus accidentally blew it up.
People of the Imperium! The emperor is not dead! The Great Enemy has constructed an obstacle trying to stop The Emperor's light fear not my brothers and sisters we have broken through! Do not lose faith! Do not despair! It may take months, years or generations. Hold the line. WE ARE COMING!
Its not that i believe it should happen, but if it must, guilliman would do it, he wants to save the imperium, but hes a pragmatist, and if he knows that he cant salvage the situation and sending reinforcements would leave what remains of the imperium unguarded, then i dont see him coming in to help dante.
Guilliman won't abandon anyone, no matter how much pressure he gets. But this does showcase just how far Humanity has fallen. It's sad when genetically engineered super soldiers care more about the people than the people.
Thanks for the video Rho. With that said... I say this with no malcontent or offense at all. Idk any other way to say it, but you are foolishly sentimental. The scope and scale at which the imperium and the galaxy has been written in can only be matched by some type of event that matches or surpasses that of the great rift. The scale at which the great rift has occurred, is beyond anything that the imperium can do currently, unless bad writing is interjected. Ask yourself if you truly understand how vast, the scope & scale, a Galaxy is, and in return how vast the Cicatrix Maledictum is.
Go after two hares and you'll catch neither. Letting half the imperium die a slow death rather than revitalizing, reinforcing and securing the Imperium you CAN control is wasteful and downright criminal. I'd rather save half rather than 'none' Allowing the Imperium Nihlus to fall also allows other things to take attention away from the remaining Imperium. Because while the Great Rift is a massive threat, its also a massive buffer zone. Ork empires, and Tyranids coming from the Galactic east are gonna crash right into that warp rift first and squabble with eachother on the dark side of the rift rather than constantly fighting Humans.
plot spoiler big rob goes to earth chats with 11th primark, 11th decides this is a fight he can believe in unlike the great crusade as he cared for all and he like meph can find his way in the warp second push but stops by the rock with a big mug of java wakes the lion the 3 set off in the warp they on travels they save world vulkan sees the hope and need in the people and says its time to join but needs to catch up with his bros so calls for a uber and says it need to be fast so uber send zoom boy Genghis the all join up kick ass vulkan gets his travlel forge out make cool thing fixes rift dad awakes in pride comes and joins his kids all go into warp to kill a god or too gork and mork leave warp and start a mega warrrrgggg. chaper 2 to follow
This part of the galaxy belongs to DANTE, the blood angels and their succesor chapter. They will find a way To ressurect sanguinius and they will fight as a legion to reclaim it for the emperor. This is their moment to shine. I dont want to see any other loyalist primarch on this side. Thé lion will kill a demon prince Luther somewere else in the galaxy and Russ will save armagedon against Angron.
Abandoning Nihilus to Chaos would only make a stronghold for Chaos several orders of magnitude larger than the Eye. Once the worlds were fully lost, cleansing them of Chaos would be nigh on impossible.
Simply denying Chaos the opportunity to build an empire in Nihilus is well worth the effort.
And the Blood Angels would not abandon the tomb of Sanguinius no matter what Guilliman said.
Well when the Lion wakes, I'd assume the traitors are going to be a test bed for Dark Age of Technology weaponry.
These Deathwing Termies and Ravenwing Bikeys will be terrifying once 10th edition drops :-)
Oh yeah ! For the First !
@@el33ment just armada of vessels that can shoot black holes with 100% accuracy like the unfinished one of Adeptus Mechanicus is enough to make even Dark Eldars to shit out of their pants and never left Webway
@@superspies32 lorewise sure, hopefully they will not be legal on the tabletop :-D
I think part of Guilliman not wanting to abandon Nihilus and go across the Rift again is a nice mirror to the HH since he stayed behind in Ultramar and Sanguinius went through the Ruin Storm to Terra.
Eh? That's not accurate. Sang, Gill and Jon all stayed behind on Ultramar, fearing everything else lost. Then they all went through the Ruin Storm to reach Terra together after Curze provoked them to prove his visions true.
The only time he stayed behind was after holding back the enemy and making an opening for Sanguinius to reach Terra and fulfill his death scene as he saw it, while the Lion went off to burn traitor worlds, starting with his own apparently.
Ceding the Imperium Nihilus would give the various Chaos & Xenos forces in that region immense resources & effectively unfettered expansion. Down the line they’ll come thundering across the great rift & be far more challenging than they are now.
Imagine all the tasty biomass the Tyranids could gorge on and then show up in Sanctus even bigger than had they been fought in Nihilus. Abandoning Nihilus makes no sense when there are still men and guns to defend it
Really, the concept of abandoning Imperium Nihilus and focusing on the more stable and secure side of the galaxy shouldn't be a surprise - The Imperium of Man in the past was always commanded with cruel logic, rather than any measure of humanity. The best characters and heroes of the Imperium, your Blackmanes and Kantors, their most triumphant moments are doing the right thing DESPITE the Imperium. The Imperium is, as a galactic, overall faction, about as human as a Tyranid hive fleet, an unthinking system of general preservation that will always opt for the 'better safe than sorry' option, even (And often) to its own detriment. If anything, the rise of Guilleman has been the first real hope humanity has had since the Siege of Terra, his neutral semi-alliance with eldar elements, rise of Primaris Marines and the Emperor's ascension indicates that the Imperium might start adapting in a more nobledark direction. The fact they're not cutting off from Nihilus already is a marked shift from the classic setting, where the Imperium would always act in the best interests of nobles and high lords, not the countless unwashed masses toiling throughout the galaxy.
Just forget about Solar Macharius. Whilst the High Lord's have had to be phenomenally ruthless as have Inquisitors like Czevak, they deploy this in the most absolutely dire situations. Segmentum Commands have a closer grip on the local situation and won't toss away worlds even if there is a long tough fight to keep it - look at the Siege of Vraks for instance.
I mean if they abandoned Nihilus they are also abandoning the entire blood angels legion. They are also leaving many many worlds to restart the traitor empire wide open.
It isn't cruel logic, it is fear and stupidity. Giving half the galaxy to chaos is absolutely unacceptable and will guarantee failure in the end by handing them trillions of souls in advance
The Lion shall wake from his slumber, the Great Wolf will arise with an Eldar goddess on his arm, the Promethean Primarch will emerge from the darkness and the Great Khan shall lead his Dothraki, sorry, I mean his White Scars in battle. The sons still live, the bell has not yet rung, and even now, the Emperor rises in the warp, sending the great plagued one to his mansion and causing the others to pause. A day may come when the courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day.
Corax not Russ
Only Johnson, Jaghatai and Corax were seen coming back by the chief Wolf Priest. He in fact specifically couldn't see Russ coming back at all, suggesting all or most of his brothers will return before him.
Wake up Lion only
@@chrisbennett6236 I‘d like Corax returning, but he hunts for Lorgar. Russ searches gor the tree of life, probably Isha. I wouldn’t like Russ returning, because the imperium isn’t at its end in my opinion. Russ should return at the end as forseen.
If the Lion awakens next, send him over with a proper force and just starting taking bets for how long it takes! He knows how to wage long desperate wars on the Northern Front
clonegrim lives as well
Imagine how the realisation of being completely abandoned is pushing the Dark Imperium into an age of strife and in tenthousand years of darkness. Until on one planet, after a collective suicide of extremely powerful psykers, an extremely powerful, godlike human being arises, unites humankind on this planet and then starts to create a unified half-galactic wide Imperium...
Wait iv seen this some where before.....
Damn, how creative, I hope they do that. I hecking love the Imperium.
@@nathanwilcut3360 What do you mean you've seen this before? This is brand new!
@@manuvirajkhare he speaks of the Emperor and the birth of the Imperium of Man.
@@blacktemplarbrotherlucius1935 oh my sweet summer child
I could see the normal people, lower commanders wanting to abandon imperium nihilus, but not Guilliman. He sees his father's vision for humanity as his own mission in a sense and to let it fall would be devastating to him and the imperium as a whole. Hopefully some of his brothers (the lion and Russ particularly) will hear the call and return with a fury unlike anything seem cause Guilliman will need both executioner and exterminator for the battles to come
Johnson should be the next or one of the next to return but there's nothing about Russ returning. Hell aside from Johnson, Jaghatai and Corax being seen coming back soon by the Wolves, there has at least been whispers of Vulkan and Dorn.
I think maybe the Emperors vision for humanity was mostly words or means to an end. But I think those words sank into some of the primarchs and that is they who embody the best aspirations of what humanity can become. It was Guilleman who told Dante to make Baal better for the people and to remember that quality of life matters. The Emperor maybe was shady AF and to calculating to really care? We certainly know that the Lords of Terra and any other human government is never gonna achieve the ideals of the great crusade, so maybe in a complete twist it is the loyalist "meta human" primarchs that drank the cool aid and will try to make improvements to quality of life?
@@chrisbennett6236 I agree the likely hood of Russ coming back is slim to none, but that's what Guilliman needs. Johnson imo is the most likely to come back because Guilliman may have the empire building but he's not a strong tactician or brutally efficient as Johnson.
@@kylerehkamp2793 hang Guilliaman is not a strong tactician? - I thought that was his whole deal :p - perhaps at the micro level Russ and Lion are better - but at the macro level its got to be Guilliaman, as he is proving now?
@@alastair4839 I'm not saying he isn't good, I'm just saying the 2 brothers he needs to fight the tides of chaos are Johnson and Russ. He needs Johnson because he's a pragmatist and can bring a lot to the table, and Russ because he's been known as the emperor's executioner, combined I think all 3 with their legions at legion strength would make for a better fight than say the Khan, Corax, Dorn, or Vulkan.
"...and he will not abandon it's people." I literally swelled with pride and shouted in joy at this line. You're my favorite 40k lorehead for saying things like this, literally gave me goosebumps.
If I understand things correctly in the imperium nihilis the blood angels have a weaker version of the astronomicon, but rather than the emperor being the becon it is the sanguinor and the Sanguineous blood god warp entity. It is mentioned however that the navigators unsung these becons have to pay extra attention to the sporadic warp storms and the significantly larger amounts of demons in the warp paths they are given but still it functions well enough. As Dante marshals power it allows Sanctus to have the breathing room to be relatively safe. Nihilis is legitimately a bulwark against the darkness, hell literally they stopped a demon primarch from settling a beachhead into real space. It’s working as a constant buffer against literal horde attempting to overtake humanity. Even in the worst case senerio nihilis is needed to jeep sancus functional. If the lion comes back I could see him
Working with Dante. we know the lion respected Sanguineous enough to allow himself to be reprimanded by his brother so we could have the lion see an echo of his brother in Dante and marshal both the emperors angels together to fight under a United banner to alleviate the pressure
I also reckon we're gearing up here for a return of Sanguinius - but rather as a Guilliman-style resurrection, we'll see the "light" part of his soul merge with that of Dante. Mephiston is already host to the "dark" part of Sanguinius' soul so we know this is to some extent possible, and it would make even more sense now you mention that Sanguinius' soul in the warp is capable of maintaining it's own astronomicon. The other obvious thing is why the hell Mephiston got the Primaris treatment but we're still sat here with a 20-odd yr old Dante model. There's no way they wouldn't update such a beloved character unless they had some big plot thing in store for him later.
I actually think the next big stage for 40k is the Emperor either dying or ascending to true godhood, and the primarchs returning in one way or another will then become more independent powers within the Imperium with their own agendas and alliances.
If the Imperium Nihlus is to be saved, the Lion must awaken and the First must be reunited. Not as a chapter, but as a full legion. Then they must be set loose. Especially if Perturabo or Lorgar retun in Sanctus, Perty is the only one who could (probably) beat Gulliman in logistics and sheer stubbornness and Lorgar knows exactly how to use the Imperium's faith against it. The Lion needs to be there to keep the North's problem in check and off Gulliman's back.
The scene that Lorgar leaves his self-imposed warp prison to try to monologue in the Material plane is the same scene where he gets shanked in the back by Corax with a "Welcome back to the Emperor's realm, *brother* "
@@attemptedunkindness3632 That was pretty funny looking back on it now.
I think Dante will hold the line fighting a stalemate at best till the Lion comes in and crushes the traitors and brings Dante relief although he won't want to be the lord of Imperium Nighalis he will want to be the new Warmaster in all but name bringing death to traitors and leaving Guilliman as a logistical mastermind and Dante holding the north backed by his Primarch in the Warp. But that's just my thoughts
@Aung Un'Rama Hmm, I wouldn't say that, but it'll be pretty bad. Also I thought the First follow Gulliman's Space Book. I'm probably wrong on that, but I could have sworn they were compliant.
@@eichler721 Hmm, it's probably most likely to happen.
Chaos needs to step up their game. Orks and Tyranny are out doing them. Also, let Dante cross the Rubicon already GW!
Commissars are killing more Guardsmen than Chaos, it's sad.
Glad to see your so close to your 100k!
So long as Imperial forces continue to fight against the forces of Chaos and Xenos in the Dark Imperium there will always be a chance to regain control of that part of the Galaxy. In truth the forces of Chaos seems more interested in destroying one other rather than taking more territory from the Imperium, and one could argue that it is the Xenos threat that pose to destroy it. Orks, Tyranids, and Necrons are becoming more and more powerful, and the Eldar and the Tau are a threat that continue to evade the Imperial forces might. Though all these threats the Emperor continues to grant his servants the strength needed to fight against the darkness that continues to grow within his light, and loyal imperial citizens will continue to fight to defend themselves against all those these threats that threaten the Emperor realm.
A question definitely worth entertaining and debating. Also 99k subs, nice going Rho!
It's a war of attrition. Imperium Nihlus is currently the Imperium's Stalingrad: too large and strategically important to let it go without a fight, economically vital to the Imperium as a whole, but the Imperium can survive without it. The resources of Chaos are large but not infinite, and are much depleted after the Fall of Cadia. If they can grind Chaos to dust, the Indomitus Crusade - the new "Operation Uranus" - can re-establish a link with Imperium Nihlus eventually and begin repairing the damage. Even if it takes another ten thousand years.
Man i love your content. Your one of my favorite youtubers. Keep the good work going.
Abandoning Imperium Nihilus would be giving the enemy vast resources in men and material, not to mention cowardly. Fortunately, Roboute Guilliman is in charge, and not a coward; the story would be different with disorganized cowards like Leman Russ, who went AWOL and deserted the Adepts Astartes, in SUCH a cowardly fashion.
I still haven't forgiven him for leaving Terra when Dorn needed him. If the Wolves were in play, then they could have held out for as long as needed for support.
@@darkscholar625 Even worse there still aren't even any whispers about Russ returning. The Wolves chief Librarian foresaw the imminent return of Johnson, Jaghatai and Corax. Plus we've had recent teasers about Dorn and Vulkan. But nothing about Russ.
At least Dorn, Vulkan Jaghatai and Corax left chasing enemies of the Imperium. We still don't know why Russ left.
@@darkscholar625 10000% this he was more need in the defense than some fools errand. Russ and his sons would have made all the difference in some fights.
Great law and theories! Top 40k content! Cheers 🙌🏻
Guilliman would never abandon imperium nihilus, remember at the very beginning of his crusade, he literally recalled all forces from worlds that were fighting a losing fight practically abandoning those worlds to theyre fate. To do it a second time would be too much guilt for guilliman. But i feel as great as guilliman is, he seriously needs help
It was the lesser evil and Roboute is fully aware of it.
As long as the forces of The Imperium continue to fight, it is not lost.
Maybe the inquisition will finally stop destroying the celestial lions.
all of the worlds they’d surrender would probably not be retaken in the next few hundred years and their ability to produce and supply more troops would be lost maybe even for ever. Abandoning the north would grant a short burst of troops, but not the facilities to supply them. The burst in strength would last maybe a thousand years, but it would eventually fissile out and the imperium would be worse of than before
It needs another big event to keep it from collapsing, another Primarch to return. The Lion is the obvious one they've been hinting at returning next, but the Dark Angels have their own strange agenda, and if it isn't going to be charging head first into Nihilus then it honestly should be another Primarch like Jaghatai to come back next. He's the perfect kind of offence for this huge defensive war the Dark Imperium is entrenched in, quick and opportunistic. He could be taking the heads off of multiple chaos warbands and leaving them as "easy" pickings for the main forces lead by Dante. Just the knowledge that another of the Emperor's sons is fighting there with them is the kind of hope they need to get through this.
Great video. Reading that exact passage really made me realise the grand strategical situation. This is something ABD seems to grasp better than almost every other 40k fan;
Without communication, warp travel and coordination, the Imperial forces in Nihilus (although been truly enormous and mighty) can't win! The Imperium is 100% dependent on FTL travel, and now those mighty armies are stuck as islands of might in a dark sea. No longer will reinforcement arrive to chase of Waarghs, defeat chaos incursions or destroy Hivefleets. Every force is alone, and alone they will be swallowed. And as hiveworlds, forgeworlds and farmeworlds falls, those armies will be starved of men, material and resources. This is simply a logistical fact, as Guilleman is all to aware of!
Can the Imperium win? Yes if the Necrons or Eldar or Crawl finds a way to close the Rift. Otherwise it is simply a matter of time. Hundreds or thousands of years it matters not to the near-immortal enemies like Chaos marines or Orks or Tyranids. They have time.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Only the Necrons can stop Chaos with the replacement of the black pylons.
But none, except Trazym want to do that. And Trazym has enthusiasm to steal relics than help rebuild pylons
Well that would push Vulkan to do something if anything is going to; He doesnt like to see the Imperiums citizens hung out to dry!
Guilliman said he could not win with half an empire. There'll be no retreat, it'll be win or lose. The lesser lords etc can rumble all they want but once his crusade over there starts there'll be support even if only for the economic advantages of connecting the other half of the empire.
If they leave half the galaxy behind...imagine how much stronger chaos will become or any xenos taking control.
The Primarch knows. Adopting a siege mentality and abandoning positions is ultimately self defeating.
The Dark Imperium situation is grim. But whilst men stand and fight. Then nothing remains out of reach. Think of the countless millions of humans there.
Think of the sacrifices and honor of the legionaries of the great crusade that conquerored those worlds.
The Imperium also has the hope of heroes unlooked for. One in The Rock. Stirs.
The Necrons are going to make a push back, they are probably producing thousands of Black Pilons to move back the warp to the Cadian line again or even beyond. The wild card I am imagining here is the Necrons.
The Necron worlds are also lost in the Xicatrix Malodixcion ( I do not know how to spell that name…) anyway I imagine the Silent King lossing his mind when he saw like thousands of tome worlds lost into the Warp. The War of the Gods continue
Maybe this will be the time for a proper primarch to come back to help carry the weight of the war in the north
I'm really curious what Dante's reaction would be to being abandoned by the empire. If the only reason he keeps fighting is a belief he is destined to be the golden warrior defending the Emperor from Sanguinius's prophecy, what happens when that belief is shattered?
With the Blood Angels being a full Legion again, and the Lion most likely to return... pretty sure it will be fine, by Imperial standards.
The Imperium does try to source what it can locally to cut down on long warp journeys. The Astronomican isn’t the only beacon in the Imperium, even though it is by far the biggest.
However, Astropaths can only be made on Terra. If they can’t get them to where they’re needed in the Dark Imperium...
The most logical outcome I can see from this is the Imperium having to do a massive consolidation of power and resources to maintain its presence in the Imperium Nihilus.
Baal could become the secondary capital of the Imperium, with it's surrounding star systems being declared as a safe zone for refugees still loyal to the Emperor. Beyond that there could be contested zones where the Imperium maintains outposts around resources too vital to be abandoned. Finally there would be regions of space that the Imperium has truly had no choice but to abandon, and here the monsters dwell!
Nothing would dwell where the earth isn't just scorched but exterminatused
Baal has already been built into the secondary capital. Guilliman fortified it before leaving.
So long as he draws breath and has his lasgun, he will hold the line
Honestly, I read the novels featuring the Wordbearer Marduk, and honestly, I always thought it was hinting at his work being the cause of the Cicatrix Maledictum- as in, not the felling of Cadia, but the powering and expanding the rift itself into such a size.
One direction GW could take is Ork Salvation. Octarius comes to conclusion and the nonstop warring between a tendril of Leviathan and the Orks is over, the Orks have won and evolved a few Krorks. The newly evolved superior leaders immediately gain the loyalty of all orks in the galaxy, innately knowing to follow. The Krorks assess the situation and see that their human and eldar cousins are in trouble from chaos. Yes orks innately know humans and eldar are their cousins (created by the old ones) it is why they dont eat people. So then we have the great ork crusade. The Krorks go onto epic battles and eventually reestablish the balance. I would love to see orks in this role for once. Orks were created to battle and protect the galaxy from the Cthan, maybe if evolved again through warfare with nids they return to that for a short while and give us something entirely new.
I though Tyranids is slaughtering shattered Ork hordes after eat the Warboss's brain?
@@superspies32 Ghazghkull is there to help now, so its waaagh for Mork and Gork time.
if the imperium fell back to even a small bridgehead covering the great rigt and surrounding systems, and let the ruinous powers and xeno take control, the imperium would fall soon after, dozens of hive fleets gorged on the abandoned worlds of the nihilius would smash through the nachtmund gauntlet and even start piercing through the great tear from too many points across the rift
meanwhile for chaos, they are almost always outmanned and outgunned compared to the might of the imperium, lorgar, perty, or abbie would know exactly what to do with all these new hive worlds, agriworlds, deathworlds and such
The Emperor is going to wake up the Lion and soon. If you think about this is actually good for Guilliman and Johnson as the 2 of them would be butting heads constantly but Lion would undoubtedly be focused on taking the fight to Niulus just as Guilliman is.
In terms of being a general the Lion is better wich is exactly what is needed.
The Lion would be quietly happy Gulliman quickly started Indomitus and agree with how he has begun to rebuild. I dont think he would show as much patience with the other factions of the imperium as Gulliman has. He wouldnt negotiate or appease the high lords or ecleasiarchy
@@johnmagee2245 would pay hood money to see the lion twist a high lords head off like a bottle cap
@@commissarlugh1040 A few inqusitors too for that matter
One of your best. Thanks
I was FURIOUS with that book that being said NO ONE can touch Aaron Delbski-Bowden
The lion is the best general of the lot. I would love to see him marshall the forces of the Emperium . I'd love to see him and Dante kick ass together. Angels of darkness and blood.
Even strategically it’s a bad idea so you leave, giving chaos more resources a bigger beach head and then they focus on Sanctus. So staying and reinforcing nilus is tactically and morally the best idea.
Even from a purely pragmatic standpoint, which, let's be honest, is the one that will actually sway Roboute in the end, it would be stupidity to the point of suicide to abandon half the imperium to chaos
This is where the Glorious Hawk Boy Returns from death.
I have a feeling this is where Vulcan will be found.
Nihilis is probably lost, but it also cannot be abandoned an chaos and the Xeno empires allowed to run riot. The imperium might not be able to win, but maybe they dont need to. Maybe they just need to not loose and hang on, preventing anyone else from consolidating power there. To spoil any attempts to snowball out of control by any of the other factions while the imperium sanctus stabilizes itself and rallies, until it can push into the dark in earnest. If nihilus can only hold and take only minimal steps back, every second they buy in blood is another second the imperium sanctus is driving forward with its flanks relatively secure. They do not need to win. Just to not loose
and who knows what will happened with The Rift, maybe after a first emerged its power will reduced and may shrink or allow Astronomicon to shrine through. Or just buy enough time for Adeptus Mechanicus to find old Necron relics humans on TAOF used as nowadays Astronomicon to shrine the Nihilis
@Wolf Lord Rho, this is way off topic, but Im looking for some advice.
Ive been doing the Black Library books on Audible. Ive made it through all of the Horus Heresy, all the available Siege of Terra, the 2 Black Legion books by ADB, the Night Lords Trilogy, and 1 or two others.
My question is: What would you suggest as a new series to pick up while waiting for the rest of the Siege of Terra and the 3rd Black Legion book, given that Id prefer not to jump too far forward into the current storylines. Im trying to makey way through in some sense of order.
Id be happy to hear any suggestions.
The Inquisition will be wanting to have words with those giving up on half the Imperium.
Dante will hold the north with big gains and big losses as his Crusade fleets can move with Mephiston there but other fleets unable to jump more then a system or 2 safely. Until the Lion awakes to bring death to the Imperium's enemies and being the new Crusade leader leaving Guilliman and Dante to run logistics and defense and rebuilding of their regions.
Edit: with the red Scar the Blood Angels area and a few other areas being bastions of defense and relative safety.
Video idea: Which loyalist primarch would the forces of chaos most/least want to return?
Probably Magnus because he would dump the corpse gods butt off the Golden Throne and boost the holy hell out of the Imperium
It's like the East and Western Roman Empire. One could survive on it's own but the other needed the other half to survive.
Imperium Nihilius will never be lost while the sons of Sanguinius live. Hail the true warmaster, Lord Sanguinius the Angel
If Nihilus is abandoned, that risks half the galaxy being adding to the forces of the ruinous powers, willingly or not, and definitely many would feel betrayed by the Imperium Sanctus. It would be a huge tactical error to do this because one day they would come for revenge.
I guess the Dark Imperium will get their own primarch that fits them. Following that will be a coordination between both Imperiums. Ah... just imagine the stories coming out of it.
The Emperor's plans are beyond fathom. He will not of abandoned his people on the other side of the rift.
Before the Lord Commander gives up the Nihilis, he'd activate every primaris and fill all chapters to legion strength.
The Lion will wake up, deal with Luther, unite his Angels and have him some traitors for lunch.
Then he will have stern chat with Guilliman about why he's Lord Regent and why he broke the legions.
I think the seat of Imperial power which is in fact doomed is none other than Terra - putting on my tinfoil here for a second, I reckon there's gonna be a huge Chaos assault upon Terra but also that the Genestealer cults arise there and bring forth the Tyranids. I think during the final battle there we finally see all the pieces come together in 40k "end times" - however rather than do an AoS and kill off the universe, the big change will be the Emperor ascending to become a true god - effectively the Chaos God of Order, alongside the resurrection of the Eldar God of death. This will effectively bring about the destruction of Terra but the Imperium is empowered in other ways by it's own "Chaos god".
Nihilus will not Fall. The Emperor wills it to stand. We will Prevail!
i'd like to see gulliman abandon Nihilus because its the logical and tactical thing to do in his mind, while the lion turns it into a more feudal knighly realm compared to the byzantine like empire of sanctus so we can get differing models for each side
You have been warmed
There shall come a dark day, when the profit margins shall fall.
When the Workshop for Games shall despair, and lament their disdain for and mistreatment of the faithful.
And, on this day, when he is needed most, shall the Lion arise.
Spears book confused the hell out of me. if i remember right, Amadeus was sent before both the torch fleets and Indomitus Crusade began, yet the Spears already had Primaris. did i completely pass the section where they say how?
Lorgar should return next, really turn the screw on Gulliman and then a loyalist should return. Lorgar has been away for to long
The problem is The Emperor may spank him so hard that he can't even walk in Dreadnough and chain him somewhere else
Yup, its lost in the sense of a whole imperium. This will allow Blood Angels to lean more into Sanguiniess. The Angel Boi, etc. Its a better plot point for eveything.
ADB is BL best writer imo. He captures essence of grim dark best, and I kind of resent him for that a little. There are no good guys in an ADB book. But hey, it's a tough galaxy and war is hell.
On that note, it should be time soon to wake up the Lion and recall Leman and Valdor from the Immaterium, who will hopefully have Corax and the Khan in tow!
I'll just say that it might be safe to assume that this is the reason why Guilliman needed the help of the Ynnari.
Crossing the great rift with standard travel of warp jumps is not only dangerous but also suicidal at some point.
But what if????
The Ynnari grant some Webway Portals to Guilliman? Just a few points?
Not only this will supply the Imperium Nihilus the munitions, supplies and man power but also take the Chaos forces by surprise.
Let's face it. The Imperium alone cannot win this war. At least not without a little help. Afterall, if the Emperor willed Guilliman to return through Xenos powers, why not go all the way? They're fighting the same enemies anyway.
They can back stab each other later. Chaos first, betray later 😅😁
After years of studying 40k lore I just don't understand why they don't just send the Ultramarines or Space Wolves into the warp and deep space and let them kill the chaos gods and then the hive mind?
The legions can't invade Demon World's because the warp is so strong there that it would corrupt the Legion immediately, turning them cultist. Keep in mind that chaos corruption isn't a mental state, it's a physical condition that can be imposed on anyone including the faithful.
@@Danterag5 But how can this be true? In the lore, the Ultramarines and Space Wolves never loose or face any consequences for their actions.
@@Maidez09 Well, I mean there was that one time were the Space Wolves lost track of their Primarch and he spent the next ten thousand years taking the piss.
@@Danterag5 well I mean sure 'father' has been gone a while but when the result was a 1st from Cambridge, a great career in finance, and a supermodel wife (who is both smart and caring) you don't tend to look at it as a negative. Also, we know said 'father' is just coming around the corner unscathed and with all kinds past Christmas presents. Hardly a tale of woes in the grim and dark future.
@@Maidez09 Bro I think he's a chaotic good Demon Prince of the Corpse God. Gonna' be more of a Father Krampus situation than a Father Christmas one.
The reason this is all happening is due to the use of warp drives and then the Golden throne and energy use to keep the corpse Emperor alive. The only way to fix the current warp breach rifts, is to hit the do not hit button so the the Emperor will be reborn and Then to reset the lost Primarchs restore the legions and kill the traitor Primarchs and reset them in new form.
But it may takes a lot of time, and The Emperor maybe executed immediately after be born again by inquisitors or be consumed by Chaos or Tyranids hive fleets. Even without all of it, 99.9999999999999% he have to survive through adulthood as denizens of Hive cities and may ended up as fuel haulers or worse. The horrific life he have to suffered after reborn will affects heavily to his point of view and can even turn him against human.
Ah, the Emperor's Spears. The only all-Primaris chapter I can accept lol
I mean... you are giving the enemy half to over half your land if you retreat. You only have control of the poorer section of the empire if you withdrew. And chaos is not as restricted by travel as you. They could in theory come out the rift at any point. No, secure the rift from both end.
Sorry I'm behind but if the emperor is waking up like it is said in godblite I think the emperor is working with guiliman and thru him look how successful he is without his brother s but when and how would he wake up I guess godblite is the last book but I blv all it takes is his true awakening or asention 👍🐲in vulkans name great video
It may be my fanboyish side to talk,but what is happening it makes me think the Lion is about to return. The First guided by the Lion are a force of unstoppable power.
from day one I expected the BA to reform as a Legion.
Wouldn't giving up nihilus just make chaos 10x as strong as they now have all those souls and breeding grounds
So I am still relatively new to warhammer lore, but from my understanding doesn't Robute have a somewhat good relationship with the Eldar? If so would he not be able to possibly make a deal to use the webway so there would be space travel on the dark imperium side? Or am I misunderstanding what the webway is.
Negative. His relationship is good with literally a small handful of a few hundred Eldar. They absolutely cannot allow the Imperium to enter the Webway because that's were the Eldar are hiding a bunch of Craft World's which are too valuable to risk losing.
@@Danterag5 Ahh okay so they actually live in the webway, I thought it was just there way to travel.
@@SirAtrox Correct: the Dark Eldar also live in the Webway. It's completely outside of the realm of Chaos and immune to its effects. Jaghethai Khan and a bunch of White Scars have been trapped in it for about ten thousand years. (They were hunting Dark Eldar pirates) and I don't know how they entered the Webway to begin with but it is possible. Corpse God was trying to make a gate into it but Magnus accidentally blew it up.
@@Danterag5 Hey thanks for the info I am still working my way through Wolf Lord Rhos videos and learning so I appreciate it.
@@SirAtrox Welcome to the best story ever written! If you love Rho you should try another channel called Oculas Imperitor.
I wanna see Angron an Ka'Banda visit Baal.
People of the Imperium! The emperor is not dead! The Great Enemy has constructed an obstacle trying to stop The Emperor's light fear not my brothers and sisters we have broken through! Do not lose faith! Do not despair! It may take months, years or generations. Hold the line. WE ARE COMING!
Its not that i believe it should happen, but if it must, guilliman would do it, he wants to save the imperium, but hes a pragmatist, and if he knows that he cant salvage the situation and sending reinforcements would leave what remains of the imperium unguarded, then i dont see him coming in to help dante.
Guilliman won't abandon anyone, no matter how much pressure he gets. But this does showcase just how far Humanity has fallen. It's sad when genetically engineered super soldiers care more about the people than the people.
I hate Rowboat gigabyte with a passion that rivals the templars but I don't see him giving chaos more room to build up.
Thanks for the video Rho. With that said... I say this with no malcontent or offense at all. Idk any other way to say it, but you are foolishly sentimental.
The scope and scale at which the imperium and the galaxy has been written in can only be matched by some type of event that matches or surpasses that of the great rift. The scale at which the great rift has occurred, is beyond anything that the imperium can do currently, unless bad writing is interjected.
Ask yourself if you truly understand how vast, the scope & scale, a Galaxy is, and in return how vast the Cicatrix Maledictum is.
I don't think it will be lost. That would be a major set back for the Imperium for once and I doubt that GW will allow such a thing.
Go after two hares and you'll catch neither. Letting half the imperium die a slow death rather than revitalizing, reinforcing and securing the Imperium you CAN control is wasteful and downright criminal. I'd rather save half rather than 'none'
Allowing the Imperium Nihlus to fall also allows other things to take attention away from the remaining Imperium. Because while the Great Rift is a massive threat, its also a massive buffer zone. Ork empires, and Tyranids coming from the Galactic east are gonna crash right into that warp rift first and squabble with eachother on the dark side of the rift rather than constantly fighting Humans.
Damn I feel bad for Guilliman.
The Lion is going to wake
plot spoiler big rob goes to earth chats with 11th primark, 11th decides this is a fight he can believe in unlike the great crusade as he cared for all and he like meph can find his way in the warp second push but stops by the rock with a big mug of java wakes the lion the 3 set off in the warp they on travels they save world vulkan sees the hope and need in the people and says its time to join but needs to catch up with his bros so calls for a uber and says it need to be fast so uber send zoom boy Genghis the all join up kick ass vulkan gets his travlel forge out make cool thing fixes rift dad awakes in pride comes and joins his kids all go into warp to kill a god or too gork and mork leave warp and start a mega warrrrgggg. chaper 2 to follow
Guilliman will not betray Dante, his guilt about Sanguinius will not let him do this.
save half or lose 100%, but ofc it wont happen or the plot ends
Give it a few more years aaaaaand down goes the imperium
This part of the galaxy belongs to DANTE, the blood angels and their succesor chapter. They will find a way To ressurect sanguinius and they will fight as a legion to reclaim it for the emperor. This is their moment to shine. I dont want to see any other loyalist primarch on this side. Thé lion will kill a demon prince Luther somewere else in the galaxy and Russ will save armagedon against Angron.
What of the Salamanders?
Where are they in all this?
Abandoning half of all the world's is like Thanos clicking his finger in the MCU only Slaaneshi deamonettes are going to bum everybody to death.
To admit defeat is blasphemy against the Emperor.
First. Also no they won't imo.
Itd be a very grim derp momeent
Let’s fucking Go chaos
Chaos aren't a threat with 1 wound marines